I've seen some recent 3D models of the Winged Defender in which the wings can pivot downward and the lower weapons struts rotate upward to fit against the wings. In combat, the wings would rise and the weapons struts would deploy.
Great topic, I love this ship. As I recall, this came out in a later FASA update post Star Trek III - The Search for Spock. The designers likely saw the Bird of Prey before they drew this. Recently on Twitter I ran into one of the former FASA product managers, and he says one of the designers who worked on these very ships passed away about eight years ago. Very unfortunate news, but I made sure to let him know that a lot of people still love these designs.
I like to imagine that during the brief Klingon-Romulan alliance, there was a degree of espionage in addition to voluntary technology exchange. So tech and indeed entire ship design principles leaked from one to the other, and this espionage may have even inspired an angry end to the short-live alliance. And so this is why some Romulan and Klingon designs, particularly from this era, seem so similar.
I really like this ship. She's perfect for a Romulan design. If the wings do move, I'd say the upward position would be the attack configuration and level position for flight.
Not only my favorite Romulan ship but one of my favorite Star Trek ships. I played the Fasa game and this was the Romulan ship that was on par with the refit Constitution class (Fasa referred to the refit as the Enterprise Class)
The impulse engines have an odd arrangement. There are two cylindrical ones close together at the top and two squarish separated ones below them in line with the lower edge of the hull in a trapezoidal pattern. Another thing not readily visible in the shots is that the crewed part of the hull continues in a bumpout under the wings and extends to the engineering section (which is under the leading edge of the tail more or less). On the front of the bumpout on the bottom is a larger version of the downward angled dish on the movie Bird of Prey and like that ship the plasma torpedo probably forms there for firing. If I remember correctly the glowing red things near the wing roots in one of the pictures are two forward photon torpedo launchers instead of using the dish like Kruge's BoP (it has been a long time since I painted any of the miniatures and I do not have the painting guides anymore), especially since they resemble the single rear photon launcher that is between and under the two cylindrical impulse drives on the 'type 2' photon torpedo armed variant (on the "Type One" plasma armed version the bump is simply painted hull color as a generic greeble as are the ones in front). The 'feet' are where the main 'disruptors' are housed (for game operations they are treated as two RBs in each 'leg' (Romulan Beam weapons, which are actually more like phasers than disruptors ) but represent one large weapon per leg). The other four RB 'disrupters' (two directly to the sides and two aft/partial sides) are not visible on the hull which is more like the standard Romulan practice.
If you read certain canon books, the Klingon BOP was originally from ships bought from Romulans, than Klingons built their own. So Romulans had these winged creatures first before the Klingons. The saucer non-warp bird of prey came before the articulating winged craft, and than Romulans had these prior to and during TMP era. FASA's ortho-views hardly match correctly, but they succeded with the winged Romulan types. I think some Winged Defenders had torpedos and plasma chargers from the centeral back of the neck port.
Such an amazing ship. One of my all time favourites from my childhood. I never played the FASA games, but I remember seeing the FASA miniatures in comic shops, and this was always a favourite of mine. So much so that I bought one. :)
Given the fact that the Klingon Bird of Prey was originally intended to be a Romulan Ship, and later made Klingon the wing design is quite suitable. In FASA terms the Klingon Bird of Prey was the result of a joint Venture between Romulans and Klingons so it all fits. This is one of the favoured designs indeed! Great Episode.
+Jean Plescha Then they realized the sheer level of stupidity that saying it was a Romulan ship the Klingons had stolen truly was. It was light a mouse on fire, let it run into the wall and set your house on fire stupid. Only fools hang on this like it was canon and somehow a good idea. It was discarded for obvious reasons.
+Mark Plott In the FASA Universe the ship design is owned by both. On the Romulan side it is the V-24 "Great Bird" Cruiser. My comments of the Klingon Bord of Prey being originally Romulan Refered to the actual initial design as meant for Star Trek III "The Search for Spock", originally it was supposed to be Romulans not Klingons in the Movie. They change it to Klingons but kept the Ship design.
As far as crew compliment, consider this: Our old Iowa Class Battleships were 887ft or ~270m in length and had a crew of around 2700, that's packing them in. Our latest Arleigh Burke Class Destroyer, the USS Michael Murphy DDG-112 is 510ft or ~160m in length and a crew of 323. And to top it off, the Nimitz Class USS George H.W. Bush CVN-77 is 1092ft or 332.8m in length and a ships company of 3200 + 2480 with airwing for a total of 5680. So it's quite possible.
I had a chance to play FASA in high school and early college, and this was one of the more solid Romulan designs. Unlike SFB the FASA Star Trek Tactical Simulator had hidden movement cloaks. A squadron of Winged Defender had enough ship power and weapons fire power to move decently under cloak, and attack with sufficient firepower once the cloak was dropped. It was one of the few Romulan ships in FASA that gave you the feel of a Romulan attack run you see in Star Trek TNG and implied in TOS.
+Wes Tower SFB has a hidden cloak system but it is so advantageous to the cloaked player nobody wants to use it. G13.6 Hidden movement. Non cloaking player should have a 33% bpv advantage and requires a moderator. Twice a turn it is revealed which facing the ship is off of for the non cloaked player. It even has it's own option experience in tracking rule section.
Umm, the warp Units for the Bird of Prey (both Ent and TMP era) are not the things at the back, they are the wings themselves. It's actually shown in breakdown in the BoP Owners Workshop Manual. In fact i recall them referencing that in the Bird of Prey episodes.
I always found a lot of the FASA ships odd, which I attribute to the lack of reference material- we had the Romulan Bird of Prey, the Klingon/Romulan D7 and that was it really. This one really jumped on the STIII aesthetic and took it in a really fascinating direction. I disagree with our Captain and Commander on one thing though, I love the top view. One thing I would have changed though- I would have just given it one gun on the underside in the centre. But maybe that's just my thinking back to the Starcraft Wraith. Though the do give it that talon-like look which I concede fits perfectly with the overall bird appearance
It took me till five minutes in before I realised that it had two wings underneath. I'd assumed there was one central one which was a very different look! (but one I find interesting actually...)
Hell must have frozen over because the Captain admitted, on screen, that the Romulan ship from TOS was a Warbird. Has he finally accepted that the Bird of Prey is a Klingon original?
I'm no expert But I might suggest that if one is going by the information that is out there the Romulan and indeed Klingon Engines use similar parts to the Federation designs - but they don't always do the details in the same ways. For example the Federation ships use parts located in the ship Nacelles (possible with a little help from the deflector) to maintain and shape their warp fields in FTL flight. A Klingon ship might do the same thing or it might use the wings themselves to shape the Warp Bubble and maintain it's stability as well as egress and exit from warp. For that reason I can see the wings being used like the little fins on TOS Era Nacelles and JJ -Trek ships. They may also be used as a large surface area chillers too (in conjunction with the wing motivators). The idea that "Bird of Prey" style designs use the wings as part of the drive or at least the management of the drive can at least be suggested Visually by the warp effects seen in Star Trek IV in particular. I like the idea of different races coming to very different solutions to the same problems. Or indeed the oddities that lay inside the normal federation design boundaries Like the Reliant. The issue that I remain curious about is how Romulan and Klingon (and others) deal with the safety feature of a Deflector - it seems likely the sensors are places elese where so how ever it's being done it's not overt. I have heard suggested that they just keep their deflector "force field" screen up at a low power and just don't go zipping about at warp 6 Plus through any nebulas. But I like to think there is a more complicated solution than that.
Here's an idea on plasma torpedoes. The Quantum Torpedo is described as having a plasma warhead. Could it be that it took 70+ years of refinement to make the plasma torpedo a viable front line weapon (compared to the photon torpedo), and the Federation simply gave it a new name?
+Tyneras I think the Romulan Plasma torpedo differs in that it has no outer shell or casing, also no guidance as well. its just a straight shot. while the Federation quantum torpedo has a casing similar to a mk vi torpedo and can be directed to a target. I'm sure after Kirk was debriefed by Starfleet command he gave all the information he could to Starfleet. then the Joint Chiefs at Starfleet would begin many meetings working on ways to counter this new threat. fortunately the romulans retreated into their own space to work on the B type warbird and the D'derdex.
Class XII is a measure of displacement. The D-7 ranged from Class VII for the A (k't'agga) to X for the M (k't'inga). Constitution was Class X - XI. Excelsior, L-24 (Ever Victorious), and Z-1 Nova were all Class XIII. The V-30 is a BIG ship. Most interpretations are that the "claws" are the torpedo launchers. And this, and the V-27 and V-7 cruisers are all evolution of the K-22/S-11 Class V Scout, which was co-designed by both powers. But the Klingons loved the K-22 (D'Gavama), and went on to build the D-32 class VII (z'gavva), L-42 class IX-X (z'gavasta). (And eventually the K'vort - which I assume would be the D-52 Class XII). The Romulans saw it as "tainted" by the Klingons, and it was not popular.
I'm a Starfleet Command (SFC) guy, but man, the FASA Rommie ships are so much cooler. This, the Whitewind, and the Bright One are perfect depictions of what a TMP era Romulan fleet could look like.
The ship would need to be redesigned for the wings to move. See how the hinge line is angled out from the centerline of the craft? If the wings rotate along that hinge line, they won't stay flat in respect to the direction of flight. If they rotate up, you'd see the bottom of the wings from the front view, and if they rotate down you'll see the top of the wings. That might not matter in space at sublight, but it would screw up warp flight since the warp engines are on the wingtips and would no longer be aligned with the direction the ship is going in. We can at least say that the wing position shown is definitely the warp position! In atmospheric flight rotating the wings would pitch the ship up and down, but it would have to be going very slow to need as much deflection as you see on the Klingon Bird of Prey. If that's how the ship works than it's highly likely the tailfeathers are functional control surfaces too. Overall I think either a) the wings don't move or b) the design wasn't thought out well enough.
I remember playing these 1 on 1 against the Constitution refit, and it almost always won. Its a match with shields, Hull and firepower and had the cloak to boot
You guys should do a debate show to finally settle this whole Romulan vs Klingon bird of prey debate...I think that would be a cool show! Star Trek Debate 2016!!!
class 12 is the weight or tonnage..original d7 was class 9 ...alsways buitl feds as class 12(biggerer than ent/connie} to max out the weapons and hp...bird of prey was romulan and during the tech transfers during the rom/klingon treaties...so as class 5 scout bird of prey s daddy i can see it
As to whether or not they ever were used against Federation ships, it would, of course, depend on the GM running the game. In my campaign, I can only say, "Hell yeah!" LOL! My players would virtually crap themselves whenever one or more of these would uncloak on the board. Muhahahahahahahahaha!
+Stuart Lynn Sexton's Frontier Zone Books. 1) you are disregarding the Starship Tactical Combat Simulator. 2) As well they should have since the ship was designed to be close to a match for the Enterprise class (connie refit in fasa). For the ent to win against 2 or more, either the rom captains have to be incompetent, or lots of plot armor. P. S. the picture with 4 in the shot is total fantasy, there were less than 2 dozen produced by stIII, they would have been the center of a squadron of other ships. They did not fly together.
I don't understand how you can say I am disregarding The Starship Tactical Simulator, when you weren't involved in any of my games. Okay, I did use some house rules, to speed up combat, so, okay, there was some disregard. LOL! But that's beside the point; my point was, as a GM, I am at my own discretion as to whether or not there could have been future ships of this class built beyond those mentioned in the Romulan Ship Recognition Manual. It is even up to the GM as to whether or not the Recognition Manuals are accurate, or filled with misinformation. After all, the Romulan and Klingon Recognition Manuals were meant to read as SF Intel reports, and not public fact files. My campaign went beyond the scope of the last Movie Era publication FASA came out with, and, while I now use LUG rules (I ignore Decipher entirely), my campaign is still essentially the same (I've had to ignore some of LUG as well) as it was with FASA, only now it's 2299. (This would be about 2236, or RSD 2/36, according to the FASA timeline, give or take a margin of error of about 3 years.) Who's to say the Romulans haven't built more of these ships than what SF Intel had originally thought? And who's to say whether or not they eventually might be encountered by the Feds? The fact is, in my campaign, at some point between Star Treks IV and VI, I staged a huge Triangle War,. in which all three of the major powers surrounding the Triangle were involved. So, yes, I've disregarded the Recognition Manuals from time to time, because I believe in using the old adage of not believing everything you read to my advantage as a GM. It keeps player characters (especially SFI characters) on their toes. Peace. .
Hey guys what are each of your favorite federation ships from Star Trek, we have to write a picture book for school and it's about space and the characters r captain foley and commander cockings and I wanna c what ur guyses favorite ships r and I'll c which one I'll use in the book, if you don't respond in time I guess I'll just do the constitution class
I don't know what the attraction is with this ship. It's an infantile, childish unimaginative design. What works about the Romulan D'deridex is that it's a symbolic abstract representation of bird of prey. This design is not. It's merely cartoonish. It's something you'd expect to have seen done in the animated Star Trek series. It's like taking a picture of a bird of prey and making it into a ship by adding guns and warp nacelles to it. Many of Flaccid's...er...FASA's Federation ship designs were dubious enough. They got progressively worse and worse with Klingon and then with the Romulan ships. Like they put less and less thought and effort into it. This ship exemplifies that unfortunate trend.
I've seen some recent 3D models of the Winged Defender in which the wings can pivot downward and the lower weapons struts rotate upward to fit against the wings. In combat, the wings would rise and the weapons struts would deploy.
Nothing like a FASA ship being talked about my my favorite British subjects
Great topic, I love this ship. As I recall, this came out in a later FASA update post Star Trek III - The Search for Spock. The designers likely saw the Bird of Prey before they drew this. Recently on Twitter I ran into one of the former FASA product managers, and he says one of the designers who worked on these very ships passed away about eight years ago. Very unfortunate news, but I made sure to let him know that a lot of people still love these designs.
In FASA. "Class (fill in the Roman Numeral)" had to do with size, mass, etc.
I like to imagine that during the brief Klingon-Romulan alliance, there was a degree of espionage in addition to voluntary technology exchange. So tech and indeed entire ship design principles leaked from one to the other, and this espionage may have even inspired an angry end to the short-live alliance. And so this is why some Romulan and Klingon designs, particularly from this era, seem so similar.
I really like this ship. She's perfect for a Romulan design.
If the wings do move, I'd say the upward position would be the attack configuration and level position for flight.
Not only my favorite Romulan ship but one of my favorite Star Trek ships. I played the Fasa game and this was the Romulan ship that was on par with the refit Constitution class (Fasa referred to the refit as the Enterprise Class)
The impulse engines have an odd arrangement. There are two cylindrical ones close together at the top and two squarish separated ones below them in line with the lower edge of the hull in a trapezoidal pattern.
Another thing not readily visible in the shots is that the crewed part of the hull continues in a bumpout under the wings and extends to the engineering section (which is under the leading edge of the tail more or less). On the front of the bumpout on the bottom is a larger version of the downward angled dish on the movie Bird of Prey and like that ship the plasma torpedo probably forms there for firing. If I remember correctly the glowing red things near the wing roots in one of the pictures are two forward photon torpedo launchers instead of using the dish like Kruge's BoP (it has been a long time since I painted any of the miniatures and I do not have the painting guides anymore), especially since they resemble the single rear photon launcher that is between and under the two cylindrical impulse drives on the 'type 2' photon torpedo armed variant (on the "Type One" plasma armed version the bump is simply painted hull color as a generic greeble as are the ones in front).
The 'feet' are where the main 'disruptors' are housed (for game operations they are treated as two RBs in each 'leg' (Romulan Beam weapons, which are actually more like phasers than disruptors ) but represent one large weapon per leg). The other four RB 'disrupters' (two directly to the sides and two aft/partial sides) are not visible on the hull which is more like the standard Romulan practice.
You can also play this ship on the Xbox 360/PC game Star Trek Legacy. One of my favourite Romulan designs.
If you read certain canon books, the Klingon BOP was originally from ships bought from Romulans, than Klingons built their own. So Romulans had these winged creatures first before the Klingons. The saucer non-warp bird of prey came before the articulating winged craft, and than Romulans had these prior to and during TMP era.
FASA's ortho-views hardly match correctly, but they succeded with the winged Romulan types. I think some Winged Defenders had torpedos and plasma chargers from the centeral back of the neck port.
FASA had some great looking ships and this was a favorite of mine. Galant Wing was nice too.
Such an amazing ship. One of my all time favourites from my childhood. I never played the FASA games, but I remember seeing the FASA miniatures in comic shops, and this was always a favourite of mine. So much so that I bought one. :)
In the action shot with the three V-30s chasing the Federation destroyer, they kinda look like Stukas.
If memory serves, the closed references ship masses, the bigger the ship mass, the higher the class.
Given the fact that the Klingon Bird of Prey was originally intended to be a Romulan Ship, and later made Klingon the wing design is quite suitable. In FASA terms the Klingon Bird of Prey was the result of a joint Venture between Romulans and Klingons so it all fits.
This is one of the favoured designs indeed! Great Episode.
+Jean Plescha why would the romulans give the Klingons arguably a superior ship design and design nothing for them selfs ?
+Jean Plescha Then they realized the sheer level of stupidity that saying it was a Romulan ship the Klingons had stolen truly was. It was light a mouse on fire, let it run into the wall and set your house on fire stupid. Only fools hang on this like it was canon and somehow a good idea. It was discarded for obvious reasons.
+Mark Plott In the FASA Universe the ship design is owned by both. On the Romulan side it is the V-24 "Great Bird" Cruiser. My comments of the Klingon Bord of Prey being originally Romulan Refered to the actual initial design as meant for Star Trek III "The Search for Spock", originally it was supposed to be Romulans not Klingons in the Movie. They change it to Klingons but kept the Ship design.
As far as crew compliment, consider this: Our old Iowa Class Battleships were 887ft or ~270m in length and had a crew of around 2700, that's packing them in. Our latest Arleigh Burke Class Destroyer, the USS Michael Murphy DDG-112 is 510ft or ~160m in length and a crew of 323. And to top it off, the Nimitz Class USS George H.W. Bush CVN-77 is 1092ft or 332.8m in length and a ships company of 3200 + 2480 with airwing for a total of 5680. So it's quite possible.
I had a chance to play FASA in high school and early college, and this was one of the more solid Romulan designs. Unlike SFB the FASA Star Trek Tactical Simulator had hidden movement cloaks. A squadron of Winged Defender had enough ship power and weapons fire power to move decently under cloak, and attack with sufficient firepower once the cloak was dropped. It was one of the few Romulan ships in FASA that gave you the feel of a Romulan attack run you see in Star Trek TNG and implied in TOS.
+Wes Tower SFB has a hidden cloak system but it is so advantageous to the cloaked player nobody wants to use it. G13.6 Hidden movement. Non cloaking player should have a 33% bpv advantage and requires a moderator. Twice a turn it is revealed which facing the ship is off of for the non cloaked player. It even has it's own option experience in tracking rule section.
Great episode! This would be an awesome ship to see in the new show.
Umm, the warp Units for the Bird of Prey (both Ent and TMP era) are not the things at the back, they are the wings themselves. It's actually shown in breakdown in the BoP Owners Workshop Manual. In fact i recall them referencing that in the Bird of Prey episodes.
I could see Robot Chicken's TOS Spock going "Oh Dayum" on seeing a D'deridex show up just dwarfing their Enterprise.
My favorite Romulan design was the Whitewind class.
I had one of these back when it first came out. Came missing a nacelle. Shoddy Roman quality control. ;)
I always found a lot of the FASA ships odd, which I attribute to the lack of reference material- we had the Romulan Bird of Prey, the Klingon/Romulan D7 and that was it really. This one really jumped on the STIII aesthetic and took it in a really fascinating direction. I disagree with our Captain and Commander on one thing though, I love the top view. One thing I would have changed though- I would have just given it one gun on the underside in the centre. But maybe that's just my thinking back to the Starcraft Wraith. Though the do give it that talon-like look which I concede fits perfectly with the overall bird appearance
It took me till five minutes in before I realised that it had two wings underneath. I'd assumed there was one central one which was a very different look! (but one I find interesting actually...)
Hell must have frozen over because the Captain admitted, on screen, that the Romulan ship from TOS was a Warbird. Has he finally accepted that the Bird of Prey is a Klingon original?
I'm no expert But I might suggest that if one is going by the information that is out there the Romulan and indeed Klingon Engines use similar parts to the Federation designs - but they don't always do the details in the same ways.
For example the Federation ships use parts located in the ship Nacelles (possible with a little help from the deflector) to maintain and shape their warp fields in FTL flight.
A Klingon ship might do the same thing or it might use the wings themselves to shape the Warp Bubble and maintain it's stability as well as egress and exit from warp.
For that reason I can see the wings being used like the little fins on TOS Era Nacelles and JJ -Trek ships.
They may also be used as a large surface area chillers too (in conjunction with the wing motivators).
The idea that "Bird of Prey" style designs use the wings as part of the drive or at least the management of the drive can at least be suggested Visually by the warp effects seen in Star Trek IV in particular.
I like the idea of different races coming to very different solutions to the same problems.
Or indeed the oddities that lay inside the normal federation design boundaries Like the Reliant.
The issue that I remain curious about is how Romulan and Klingon (and others) deal with the safety feature of a Deflector - it seems likely the sensors are places elese where so how ever it's being done it's not overt.
I have heard suggested that they just keep their deflector "force field" screen up at a low power and just don't go zipping about at warp 6 Plus through any nebulas.
But I like to think there is a more complicated solution than that.
Here's an idea on plasma torpedoes. The Quantum Torpedo is described as having a plasma warhead. Could it be that it took 70+ years of refinement to make the plasma torpedo a viable front line weapon (compared to the photon torpedo), and the Federation simply gave it a new name?
+Tyneras I think the Romulan Plasma torpedo differs in that it has no outer shell or casing, also no guidance as well. its just a straight shot. while the Federation quantum torpedo has a casing similar to a mk vi torpedo and can be directed to a target. I'm sure after Kirk was debriefed by Starfleet command he gave all the information he could to Starfleet. then the Joint Chiefs at Starfleet would begin many meetings working on ways to counter this new threat. fortunately the romulans retreated into their own space to work on the B type warbird and the D'derdex.
Class XII is a measure of displacement. The D-7 ranged from Class VII for the A (k't'agga) to X for the M (k't'inga). Constitution was Class X - XI. Excelsior, L-24 (Ever Victorious), and Z-1 Nova were all Class XIII. The V-30 is a BIG ship.
Most interpretations are that the "claws" are the torpedo launchers.
And this, and the V-27 and V-7 cruisers are all evolution of the K-22/S-11 Class V Scout, which was co-designed by both powers. But the Klingons loved the K-22 (D'Gavama), and went on to build the D-32 class VII (z'gavva), L-42 class IX-X (z'gavasta). (And eventually the K'vort - which I assume would be the D-52 Class XII). The Romulans saw it as "tainted" by the Klingons, and it was not popular.
Love this ship.... It did make me think larger version of Hawk's fighter on "Buck Rogers".
I know this is an old video, but for Romulan designs, the Nierrh would be pretty sweet.
I'm a Starfleet Command (SFC) guy, but man, the FASA Rommie ships are so much cooler.
This, the Whitewind, and the Bright One are perfect depictions of what a TMP era Romulan fleet could look like.
The ship would need to be redesigned for the wings to move. See how the hinge line is angled out from the centerline of the craft? If the wings rotate along that hinge line, they won't stay flat in respect to the direction of flight. If they rotate up, you'd see the bottom of the wings from the front view, and if they rotate down you'll see the top of the wings. That might not matter in space at sublight, but it would screw up warp flight since the warp engines are on the wingtips and would no longer be aligned with the direction the ship is going in.
We can at least say that the wing position shown is definitely the warp position!
In atmospheric flight rotating the wings would pitch the ship up and down, but it would have to be going very slow to need as much deflection as you see on the Klingon Bird of Prey. If that's how the ship works than it's highly likely the tailfeathers are functional control surfaces too.
Overall I think either a) the wings don't move or b) the design wasn't thought out well enough.
Ah, damn! New Trekyards catchphrase? :)
I would say the wings raise when going to warp seems logical
this was in Star Trek encounters on the PlayStation 2
Still a cool and TRUE Bird of Prey ship design.
its a crime this was never officially adopted into canon.
I like the ship . I would like to see less blocky nacelles on it. More pointed ones would look better i think.
Reminds me of the Draconarius from Armada 2 :D
Love this romie ship, would be cool if this ship is in the new CBS show!
Ah, the Vas'Deletham.
I would not mind seeing this ship in canon.
16:30 So about 50 people living on each Deck?
Class is size in fasa, the enterprise class (connie refit) is class 12, this is meant to challenge that.
+Sean Newboy It should be noted these vessels did not enter service until shortly before the 1st movie.
I remember playing these 1 on 1 against the Constitution refit, and it almost always won. Its a match with shields, Hull and firepower and had the cloak to boot
Three V-30s escorting a Terrorbird....
Class referred to how much the ship displaced. Thus class XII is larger than Class XI
You guys should do a debate show to finally settle this whole Romulan vs Klingon bird of prey debate...I think that would be a cool show! Star Trek Debate 2016!!!
+Austin Burchers Donald Trump of the Tribble world seeks retribution.
Funny enough I'm watching this video on my LG V30 phone.
Ah my favorite part of Monday...
+Galvars What a compliment!
100% truth Commander. You and Captain bring a spark of joy in to this dark and gloomy least popular day of the week.
class 12 is the weight or tonnage..original d7 was class 9 ...alsways buitl feds as class 12(biggerer than ent/connie} to max out the weapons and hp...bird of prey was romulan and during the tech transfers during the rom/klingon treaties...so as class 5 scout bird of prey s daddy i can see it
As to whether or not they ever were used against Federation ships, it would, of course, depend on the GM running the game. In my campaign, I can only say, "Hell yeah!" LOL! My players would virtually crap themselves whenever one or more of these would uncloak on the board. Muhahahahahahahahaha!
+Stuart Lynn Sexton's Frontier Zone Books. 1) you are disregarding the Starship Tactical Combat Simulator. 2) As well they should have since the ship was designed to be close to a match for the Enterprise class (connie refit in fasa). For the ent to win against 2 or more, either the rom captains have to be incompetent, or lots of plot armor.
P. S. the picture with 4 in the shot is total fantasy, there were less than 2 dozen produced by stIII, they would have been the center of a squadron of other ships. They did not fly together.
I don't understand how you can say I am disregarding The Starship Tactical Simulator, when you weren't involved in any of my games. Okay, I did use some house rules, to speed up combat, so, okay, there was some disregard. LOL!
But that's beside the point; my point was, as a GM, I am at my own discretion as to whether or not there could have been future ships of this class built beyond those mentioned in the Romulan Ship Recognition Manual.
It is even up to the GM as to whether or not the Recognition Manuals are accurate, or filled with misinformation. After all, the Romulan and Klingon Recognition Manuals were meant to read as SF Intel reports, and not public fact files.
My campaign went beyond the scope of the last Movie Era publication FASA came out with, and, while I now use LUG rules (I ignore Decipher entirely), my campaign is still essentially the same (I've had to ignore some of LUG as well) as it was with FASA, only now it's 2299. (This would be about 2236, or RSD 2/36, according to the FASA timeline, give or take a margin of error of about 3 years.)
Who's to say the Romulans haven't built more of these ships than what SF Intel had originally thought? And who's to say whether or not they eventually might be encountered by the Feds?
The fact is, in my campaign, at some point between Star Treks IV and VI, I staged a huge Triangle War,. in which all three of the major powers surrounding the Triangle were involved.
So, yes, I've disregarded the Recognition Manuals from time to time, because I believe in using the old adage of not believing everything you read to my advantage as a GM. It keeps player characters (especially SFI characters) on their toes. Peace. .
Hey guys what are each of your favorite federation ships from Star Trek, we have to write a picture book for school and it's about space and the characters r captain foley and commander cockings and I wanna c what ur guyses favorite ships r and I'll c which one I'll use in the book, if you don't respond in time I guess I'll just do the constitution class
U guys realise there's a dad game were u can use this ship
so many yugioh jokes I can make with this romulan ship's name... I SUMMON THE WINGED DEFENDER in attack mode...
+SuperGamefreak18 Let's be real, Pikachu is a Rat that bit an Extension Cord! :)
I don't know what the attraction is with this ship. It's an infantile, childish unimaginative design. What works about the Romulan D'deridex is that it's a symbolic abstract representation of bird of prey. This design is not. It's merely cartoonish. It's something you'd expect to have seen done in the animated Star Trek series. It's like taking a picture of a bird of prey and making it into a ship by adding guns and warp nacelles to it.
Many of Flaccid's...er...FASA's Federation ship designs were dubious enough. They got progressively worse and worse with Klingon and then with the Romulan ships. Like they put less and less thought and effort into it. This ship exemplifies that unfortunate trend.