Improve Your Commander Decks By Cutting THIS
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- There's a certain type of card that we tend to avoid in Commander, and we dive deeper into why that is in this video!
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A counterpart video showing cards where the ‘developing’ and ‘losing’ squares r green would be very interesting as well.
This is what I was thinking as well. A follow up of staples that are great for losing and developing would be interesting.
Counterspells, card draw, targeted removal, one-sided boardwipes come to mind. But I think the individual card makes more of a difference here. E.g. Dauthi Voidwalker has different stuff that makes it work in each situation - it's not one effect it's a combination.
@@japplek to be fair one sided wipes are always good to an extend so they are not realy worth talking about
Developing and Losing cards are fairly self evident, eg. Sol Ring and Angel's Grace.
Using what you've learned about applying quadrant theory to these specific cards, try evaluating some other cards to see what you learn.
Those squares dont mean anything other than theory. I challenge them to show a gameplay video that goes this way...... and Is this channel dedicated to cedh only...? whats wrong with “old magic” or just playing decks and cards for fun? Basically every card shown here can be powerful in the right deck or just add more fun and laughs to a game
It's worth pointing out that, by quadrant theory, cards like Craterhoof Behemoth, Thassa's Oracle, and other widely-played win conditions are also bad because they at most are good when Winning or at Parity. Not that people shouldn't run them, of course, it's just that sometimes the quadrants can't tell the entire story.
Facts. I do think that you can use quadrant theory well enough to choose between win cons for your deck
I think that’s what makes these cards bad. There are way better options in the winning category.
@@financecarter In any given deck, this is true. Some of these (Craterhoof particularly) are not notorious because they are the best wincons in the deck, but because they are the wincons that work in almost any deck.
Was about to say the same. In a Rakdos deck I don’t have a Craterhoof to drop. But Fiery Emancipation does the job nicely with my flying trampling demons who need to close out the game with raw damage. 20 damage becoming 60 makes the difference. Also paired with things like Archfiend, I can kill everyone out of nowhere. I can live with not being able to cast it early game just as I would Craterhoof or Overwhelming Stampede in a green deck!
I think the moral of the video is to not run too many "win more" cards in your deck
Well we know it can't be grave titan that card is a must 😂
Don't leave home without it!
@@NitpickingNerds yeah he dices and slices xd
I’m a little confused. You guys preach that fun comes before winning, however you make the most in depth edh breakdowns and say don’t spend 6 mana on fiery emancipation or grave titan cause it’s not powerful enough. I’m getting mixed messages.
I feel like this channel has gotten way more spike-y since Joe left.
I feel like they are trying to appeal to a more serious audience. You can’t run a business appealing to just one singular demographic. To draw attention to your channel, you need to speak to more people rather than just one type of person.
I agree with both harris and carter. But I will say this: There is one flaw with this quadrant theory. It's assuming that you're hard casting all of these spells. Yes, most of the time you are, but there are some decks where it doesn't apply. Either way, for the most part, this quadrant theory makes a lot of sense. Casting higher cost spells early in the game will slow you down a lot or screw you unless they have a very powerful upside.
First off: Congratulations on the engagement!
While your ranking videos, funny shorts and other stuff are entertaining, videos like these are what I value most about your channel. When I started playing, these are what helped me understand the format, evaluate cards properly and build better decks. I like that you rate new cards honestly instead of hyping up all the useless Planeswalkers we get each set, like others do just for the views. Thank you for being a reliable source of information, staying in contact with your viewers and regularly producing entertaining content!
My friend and I recently got back into commander and your videos have been extremely helpful for me! I don’t win a lot against my friends but I’m having fun 😂❤😊
That's what it's all about! So glad you are enjoying yourself!
having fun is an important part of magic
"You gotta eat your veggies too" man what a great way to look at deck building. I definitely fall short of that a lot and often dont run enough lands or card draw and just too much ramp.. trying to get better at it and this channel is definitely helping to shed some light on the subject and help me out. Been watching for a while now but havent been lately.. now I'm kinda glad I didnt so I can go binge watch haha. Anyways great video guys, congrats on the new engagement, keep up the great work nerds! ❤
Appreciate the kind words, we're glad this video was helpful to you! We're always striving to get better at Commander and to find new ways to communicate our ideas :)
Hunter's insight is so good in stompy decks. The fact that it's an instant is what makes it good. There are alot of people who will just take 4- 5 damage if your attacking creature has trample because what's the point in losing a creature and still taking damage. That's when it shines because you can flash this in after they declare no blockers. So I think it's good in the parity and winning.
Hunter's insight has drawn me more cards than I can count. The dies to removal argument you make for it could be said for anything...
They talk about flashing in creatures like you can't wait to move to damage before casting it...
I play it in Kalamax and it regularly draws me tons of cards. But I guess he's sorta tailor made for it other than evasion. Just slap something on him, it's not like you should be attacking in before that anyway.
Exactly and saying it doesn't help with parody after a board wipe Makes no sense play a creature with haste or play multiple creatures. And the next turn use hunter's insight and hit Whoever you can get it by with.
Exacery! Everything is bad except removal cards apparently.
@@em688exactly, its an instant for a reason. If hunters insight was a sorcery, it would probably be a bad card. But its not
Utvara Hellkite: the way I play this, it closes the game the turn it comes down because Terror of the Peaks, Dragon Tempest, and Scourge of Valkas exist.
In a vacuum though I would agree.
I've seen many games end when the Utvara comes out due to the same cards that Tenzin is pointing out as well as others that trigger as big creatures come into play.
My fiancé runs Utvara Hellkite in her Isshin deck which has a dragon reanimator subtheme, if she's not cheating it into play with Sneak Attack she's reanimating it and other dragons with Patriarch's Bidding so it's basically a Craterhoof Behemoth in red.
As foretold has one additional home, being flash/instantspeed decks due to its wording. If you have instants(like counterspells ir cantrips) in hand you can tap out and still use it on another turn for free.
Orvar liked that.
I run Fiery Emancipation in my mono red burn decks such as torbran or Neheb
There are decks you can run in it , but most times its win more
I love the science/strategy/rationale behind this kind of segment. It helps give a framework for newbie players to go by. Best video I've seen from this channel thus far.
Love As Foretold in my Doctor Who deck
Even when it first comes out, it can at least help me cheat out suspend cards with no mana value
Plus even 1-2 counters is super clutch for fueling my interaction and counterspells, since it lets you use its ability once per turn
Or even using it to cast your commander once you have enough
Then time traveling helps you build up those counters stupid quick. Last time I had it out, I had like 12 counters on it. Was awesome casting my biggest stuff.
you said counterspells, so i immediately disregarded the rest of the paragraph
The argument of a spell being "bad" because the creture it targets can be killed and the spell fizzles is way too generic. The One Ring, Dockside, Craterhoof, all these cards can be countered, so that makes them bad right? Smothering Tithe and Rhystic Studies are bad when losing because people who are winning will pay the 2/1 right?
Hunter's Insight has a higher setup cost than the other spells you mentioned; you need a creature with 3+ power and you also need to attack and it also needs to deal at least 3 damage. I think Mia compared it to Harmonize, which isn't a great card, but it has zero setup cost. Everything does die to counterspells/removal, but in the case of cards like Hunter's Insight, you are also exposing another card to removal as your opponents are offered a much more tempting trade of a 2-for-1
Zur the enchanter + as Foretold is fantastic. Also it says “once EACH turn…” not once on your turn. Meaning it can turn counter spell into Better Force of will. In 2 turns, free cast a one cost spell like. Esper Sentinel, Land Tax, Mystic remora, sol ring, etc. then boom turn 2+ your looking at free counter spells and better from then on. But after the first counter spell they will remove that shit.
Well of Lost Dreams is goated in a lifegain deck. My Lyra Dawnbringer deck uses it heavily, but its definitely only brcause there's heavy lifegain synergy.
I used to use Well of Lost Dreams in my Darien deck but never got it to work because I almost always had a better card in hand. The commitment to using it was too much mana.
There’s a reason I only play fiery emancipation in my gishath deck, mostly cause it’s cool and also because gishath has 7 power and trample
I have it in my Atarka deck. Makes her an immediate kill and the rest of my dragons damn near unstoppable.
Same reason I play it in Etali, big dumb dino doing big dumb things 😂
@@r.a.w.780 Exactly. Besides mana dorks I don't know if I have a dragon that deals less than 4 damage (I've got probably 1 that does 4) So i'll take it.
@@jedbex7070 I really enjoy Fiery eman, I think i've won every game I played it 😂
I play it with Kaervek the merciless and love it lol
what kind of metas do you guys play in. its not like every card in your opponents hands are farewell and swords to ploughshares. if a card is good but bad cause of removal than every card fits under that category. hunters insight is so good, early or late regardless of removal. its hardly a mana investment in green. just my opinion
also if removal makes it bad than something like old mawbone is bad which we all know isn't true
If you think I’m removing Utvara from my dragon deck, you need to put down your crack pipe.
It's funny with crucible of fire because your thoughts on this card echo my initial reaction to it... except every time I've used it in my ur dragon app it felt amazing and any time it was used against me it sucked a lot. It works really well as a way to help the dragons survive to get more, and its amazing as long as you have creatures. It's a strong finisher, which should be its purpose. It's basically a permanent overrun (given dragons have flying). On top of that it makes dragons more intimidating, so it can turn a losing board with a single dragon into a near-parity. Way better than I think you give it credit for.
It's just that you can play so many other dragons that do basically the same but... are dragons themselves.
Thrakkus the Butcher = when it attacks, double each dragon's power
Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury = Whenever a dragon you control attacks, creatures you control get +1/+0 until end of turn (attacking with three dragons = +3/+0
Lozhan, Dragons' Legacy = Whenever you cast an Adventure or Dragon spell, Lozhan, Dragons’ Legacy deals damage equal to that spell’s mana value to any target that isn’t a commander
Wrathful Red Dragon = Whenever a Dragon you control is dealt damage, it deals that much damage to any target that isn’t a Dragon
Dromoka, the Eternal = Whenever a Dragon you control attacks, bolster 2
Like... instead of playing enchantments that make your dragons stronger, just play DRAGONS that make your Dragons stronger. Not only does that mean you'll generally have more stuff on the board that actually needs to get answered, it also means you have more synnergies. A Kolaghan, the Storms Fury doesn't just make your other dragons better, it also gets better from other dragons. Crucible of Fire doesn't do that. It makes other dragons stronger, but never gets stronger itself... because it' just an enchantment that sits there. Dragons are basically slivers now.
What also compounds this is if you play The Ur-Dragon, that every Dragon will be cheaper by one mana. It's actually incredible how much of a difference that makes. If you play any acceleation at all turn 1/2, you'll have 4 mana available on turn 3. With Ur-Dragon's emminence ability I can now cast any 5-mana dragon on turn 3. Then follow up up with a second dragon turn 4 and most of the time that's already a huge issue for your opponents. I'd rather have two dragons than one dragon and a crucible.
And finally: Giving your dragons +3/+3 doesn't really prevent them from getting killed. Like sure, they're a bit tougher but they will STILL die basically to any boardwipe and occasionally survive a red sweeper (even then there are exceptions with Star of Extinction and Blasphemous Act which deal so much damage that even high toughness doesn't save your dragons). Targeted removal most of the time exiles or destroys or bounces.
So I'd much rather play something like Steely Resolve (As Steely Resolve enters the battlefield, choose a creature type. Creatures of the chosen type have shroud.) to protect my dragons from single target removal. It's much cheaper at 2 mana and is way better at protecting my dragons than a +3/+3 buff ever could.
@@PaulSzkibikHere's the thing though- most field wipes kill creatures, but its a rare field wipe that destroys enchantments. If your whole focus is on summoning dragons, any deck with a solid and reliable creature counter can put it out. Having a few enchantments and artifacts can make important effects harder to remove. And when I say theyre more survivable, Im talking about combat- people will think a lot harder about attacking you if you have an 8/8 or 9/9 than they will about a 5/5 or 6/6, as there are far fewer things that can survive that. On top of all that, if someone brings out targeted enchantment removal, this one looks bad enough on the surface that people won't destroy it over others like kindred discovery or damage engines. Literally you're expressing my starting viewpoint on that card, but the more I've used it, the more I realized its a surprisingly strong card that goes well beyond first impressions. Its easy to sleep on. (Ill also add that it makes Ur dragon 2-shot someone)
My worst deck, but the one that I can't make myself give up on, is a Trostani deck that's all about pushing out BIG tokens. The key to improving it was making more things that got the deck going (i.e. creating tokens) and less payoffs. Well of Lost Dreams and Second Harvest were both among the cuts.
I used to have Well of Lost Dreams in my Darien deck but ended up taking it out a while ago. Any time I try to put it in a deck i still end up taking it out. Honestly its just... a bad card. Theres more efficient ways to draw cards.
I have Second Harvest in my Rin & Siri deck. It makes a ton of tokens and since it’s an Instant I can play it on an opponents End Step. It has been dead in my hand, but not usually.😊
Second harvest goes in my Volo deck because even if I only have 1 or 2 copy tokens, the token copies are usually very valuable and at least 4 mana. Getting an extra 1 or 2 copies of something like acidic slime or peregrine drake, let alone craterhoof, is pretty huge.
Yea its clearly a card that needs to be put into specific decks that create a lot of token copies, not treasures/clues/foods.
Second harvest in my omnath and lathril deck, it’s a great card there
Why not just play a clone at that point?
Higher ceiling to get 3+ tokens that lead to a win/immense value with an acceptable floor of functionally clone
City on FIre is just better than Fiery Emancipation anyway
Thanks for the free egdar upgrade guide. I was looking at cards to cut and you just listed 3 that I had in the list
I have never understood why Nitpicking Nerds look at these issues so flatly as a "winning position".
This is a 4 person game where between your next turn, you have 3 opponents who will try to stop you. I actually played HUNDREDS of games where drawing extra cards when I was "winning" at the table saved my ass because everyone else was focusing on me...
Likewise, playing cards that look like Win-More is not always stupid in a 4-player game... After all, the difference between killing even 1 player and 2 players (not to mention the full win) is worth playing with such cards - Of course, the deck needs to be HEAVY balanced and only play with a few of these cards. A very good example here is Utvara Hellkite - it is a card that even plays in cEDH as a finisher, and you here claim that it is a pure "win-more"... it is one of the best finishers in red, you don't even need to have another dragon so that it becomes a threat by itself - and playing it in a "late" game, after Board-Wipe, is the perfect moment... Judging this card as "weak" because it doesn't work in "development" is simply contrary to even the basic rules for building a Commander deck. Additionally - there are a lot of effects in dragons that give Haste to dragons - which often survive Board Wips, and then Utvara actually wins the game ;)
Second Harvest is good because it's Instant - so you play it with the end of the player in front of you in order to "Surprise" everyone by having a "mid" or even "light ahead" position in a "winning" position. And there are so many decks that can use it... And the fact that it is instant gives a huge advantage here - because you will NOT play it after a board wipe, but you haven't lost a card at all... you would if you played it. I don't understand this logic at all... Yes, of course, you no longer have your tokens - but your deck is designed to create them quickly - so you will soon be able to play to get ahead again. This card won me so many games in Lathril, Blade Of The Elves - as a surprise, these 4-5 tokens, suddenly I have 10 of them and I can use Ltarhil's ability (and ther is practically the same card in green, which also costs 4 mana but it's " elf-tribal" but sorcery - I dropped it from the deck very quickly in the testing phase - precisely for the reasons you described for Second Harvest).
At the end, however, I appreciate the effort put into creating this - it's nice that there is a rating system, and it's nice that it shows how you look at the game. I may not agree with it, but I appreciate the contribution - and the fact that I can argue (even here in the post) why I disagree with it. So, good job - even though I don't support the opinion on most of the cards shown here (not as generally as I should specify ;P).
Of course, my opinion is mine - and it can be just as wrong/imperfect/stupid - and that's why we love Commander, every player has an opinion :D
Well of lost dreams....anything (other than skull clamp) that requires me to pay additional mana to draw, I avoid. I want my draws to come free with a trigger, or directly from the spell I cast. I rarely have extra mana for these triggers. My turns are planned out so I'm completely out, or I'm holding up mana for responses
Basicly what you guys are telling us.
Every card fits into it's own category, make sure you know where every card goes. This helps balancing your deck over time.
This is such an interesting way of looking at the value of a card not in a vacuum, not in a specific situation, but in the 4 states a game can be based on flow
Assemble the Legion is a superfriends card. It is rather good for protecting your walkers and plays super well with proliferate, and eventually wins the game by itself. r/w agro type decks can do better for certain, but in commodore guff/ other superfriends decks with red mana....one hell of a roleplayer!
Hunter's Insight is....awesome? Do you play it in a deck that can't reliably expect to be getting through with a 4-5 power creature, likely one with hexproof....no...you dont. In a deck that expects to be able to do that...draw 5 for 3 is pretty good I hear.
I agree that crucible, fiery emancipation, reya and magic mirror area all pretty bad, and second harvest and utrvara are pretty win-more. All the other cards are great card in the decks that they can fill a vital role in
I've never personally seen anyone use assemble the legion but without help it seems absolutely horrendous 5 mana to get a single 1/1 on your next turn seems so bad off the bat. Also b/c its slow it feels like it just gives your opponents time to find answers for when it gets to be actually good.
Hunter’s Insight is great in voltron decks where you’re running evasion anyway.
Door of Destiny looks nuts for a zombie deck. Gravecrawler makes it insane
"I can't imagine a way to have this make more than 4 tokens with this in the first five turns" - no one who has ever played against a chatterfang deck
I use fiery emancipation in burn....or to turn my 6 mana banefire into a kill spell. I dunno I would never slot it into a creature deck with the idea that my 1/1 is going to suddenly accomplish something. In something like hinata where I am controlling the board, this thing let's you output damage while holding up mana. Something like Immodane for example.
Methinks they don't fully understand how to use Fiery Emancipation
The takeaway is that if you feel disapointment drawing a card you should probably take it out.
Utvara Hellkite is so amazing in my Miirym Sentinel Wyrm deck tho. 8 mana (90% of the time 1 or 2 mana (from sneak attack or other cheat effects)) for 2+ 6/6 that make double or more the 6/6 dragons
And my miirym deck is getting close to optimal that I can cast my 6 mana command on turn 2 so followed by multiple 6+ drops on turn 4 or 5
As Foretold is best used in decks where you're going to play a lot of instants, flash, etc... Because you can use it each turn. If it's being used in a deck where you're really only using it on your turn, it's only OK. But seriously, see this in a chulane value flash deck... it's gross.
And in the Doctor who timey wimey deck cuz you can add to its counter count with the commander effect. It gets insane when they dont clear as foretold and you have 20+ counters on it making your commander cast free
Soooo playing cards without having synergy and support, planning on how to utilise it, is bad. Check, got it.
Many of these cards felt weird listening to what you say. I mean if I have triple damage, draw as damage is dealt or my dragons gets +3/3 I'm making sure that the deck uses that to the max.
For example the lifegain draw card is excellent if you build a lifegain deck with a ton of ramp and enablers. The goal is to get slot of mana, alot of triggers and use alot of mana and refill your hand. Would I put it in a low curve aggro lifegain deck without alot of ramp? No.
Drawing a ton of cards is easy on a green or gruul creature with trample and alot of power, while keeping up one or two mana for protection. You just don't send it in naked. Galtha says hello, slap you like a house in the face with fangs, draw two hands of cards. When do you do that? After you have ramped and set up your board and need to draw a fist of cards to ensure you can keep on trucking.
Maybe I'm missing what you are aiming for but it mostly just feels like "don't play bad cards, just win".
Yea, definitely felt like just a lot of bad synergy and poor uses of the card as examples, you're not aiming for combat damage with fiery emancipation, you're not gonna use hunters insight without a clear way to get through, you're not gonna run second harvest to make a few food tokens, you're gonna run these cards where they provide max value. Maybe a slightly different spin on what the video should be aiming to illustrate could help. It also felt very focused on slower or high CMC cards more than anything else.
With Marisi out and hunters insight, it's possibly green on everything but losing. Maybe developing it's still yellow
By the way, your bottom template thing where you put your current topic looks amazing ❤
I feel the only one of these that's "wrong" is Well of Lost Dreams, solely because it's not really meant to do almost anything y'all graded it on. It's incidental card draw, meant for you to dump some excess mana into occasionally. Is it being overplayed? Yeah, probably, because by itself it's not gonna do much. It should only go in decks where nearly every spell/effect has a random "gain 1 life" tacked on, but that's part of the fun of EDH. Finding those janky cards that your deck can exploit (such as in UG with Horizon Chimera out or in a Queza, Augur of Agonies deck).
Everything else, spot on (though I'd offer a small counterpoint and say Reya really only goes in reanimator decks anyway, where you're probably cheating her into play for way less than 9-mana).
it's one of my favorite cards in my Dina deck. i could sneeze and i'd gain life with that deck, and card draw is a little lacking. if it's a deck that's only going to draw 3-4 cards it's trash, but if it draws you +15?
crucible of fire would be an absolute bomb in a changeling deck tho
Some of these cards are just finishers. Akroma's will is also useless if you have no creatures why not put it on the list then?
gaea's cradle does nothing by itself, doesn't even make mana. what an awful card 😂
Fiery emancipation is a finisher. You dont just play it and leave it sitting on the board, you play it once you have a decent board state and can just get though with a ton of dmg to win.
They covered this.
yeah... that's what they said
I play this in my Ovika deck. I cast it after my commander is on the board and then lights out. Of course I already have things on the board like Cavalcade of Calamity, Raid Bombardment, Impact Tremors, Goblin Bombardment etc. . .
@@dandonaldson9149 according to edhrec only 4% of red deck are running it so really i dont think it belongs on this list of things you need to cut from your deck. there are a couple other cards i dont agree with on this list ether.
"Second Harvest" would be great in me Anikthea deck, didn't even know that existed till now!
It can be solid in the late game!
As a fan of mono black it saddens me just how not good Black Market is... it seems good at first and it rewards me for doing what I want to do, things dying, but I've never had it pay off in any meaningful way and I ended up cutting it from all my mono-black decks. In my experience by the time I got it down I was essentially at the point where I didn't need the benefit any longer.
It definitely can't deliver on some of the awesome promises it makes when you first read the card 😂
I've used it with some success when trying to ramp into a huge torment of hailfire. It's not great but has some fun moments.
I'm pretty sure Black Market is most wanted in an aristocrats shell. When you're saccing your own stuff anyway it's pretty nice. And you'll benefit from chump blocking anyone trying to break through your cheap creatures. Have had to use multiple D20s for the amount of counters Black Market has accrued in some games.
Shirei jizzes with this card.
Winning more is one of my main goals in Commander lol.
why even play commander if you can't win more or overkill your opponents? lol
@@Fausto_4841 Exactly. The game should be goofy and over the top. Not legacy singleton. Just play cEDH or Highlander if optimized builds are the only priority.
Hunter's Insight is busted in Treebeard, especially when you want to keep your cmc low.
Fiery Emancipation is fantastic in an Imodane Burn deck because Imodane The Pyrohammer benefits exponentially from damage multipliers and deals that damage to the entire board. If you cast Fiery Emancipation, each point of damage Imodane does to your opponents is multiplied by 9, and now it pushes you to the point where you could cast a one mana lightning bolt on someone's random soldier token, that spell does 9 damage to that soldier, and now Imodane deals 27 damage to all of your opponents. You might instantly win the game off just that. You could even tap out to cast Fiery Emancipation and then Mine Collapse for free by sacking a mountain, and then deal 45 damage to everybody. Fiery Emancipation is your win button in Imodane Burn. :3c
WhatNot is so lame.
Fiery Emancipation is actually a really funny case because I'm (probably) putting one into my budget Imodane, the Pyrohammer deck because it triples twice. That's pretty much the only case. Might swap it with Isengard Unleashed though.
so crazy how Emancipation is budget now. WOT was awesome
Funny thing is, it seems like every time i look into building a token based strategy with red and white, I look through my binders and see Assemble the Legion. I look at the card, I think about how useful it could be... and I cut it before I've started building the deck. There is no EDH deck I've built that would be better if I cut anything for Assemble the Legion. Next, Kalia does not want Reya... neither Kalia... Ever. There are much better angels to fill that spot.
Hunters Insight is butt. That is all.
Black Market... I thought it would be great in my Aristocrats... it was never useful. By the time I've sacrificed enough creatures to get the big pile of mana... I'm killing my opponents.
Door of Destinies... Only in my Elves build have I considered it.
Eh, I honestly feel that this kind of quadrant thinking is waaayyyy too shallow. At least half of the cards featured in this video definitely have their homes in their kinds of decks. You're basically just saying "this card doesn't go in EVERY deck" which is like... Well duh?
Not only that, majority of win conditions in the game would be "bad" using this logic, because they "only work if you're already winning". Just look at Craterhoof Behemoth for example.
Having watched a lot of EDH videos from variety of creators I also feel that ton of the advice is geared towards MUCH more "serious" EDH players than what I've ever played with. I've never played a game of EDH where I felt I NEEDED to destroy a land for example, yet I recently saw a video about how every EDH deck apparently "needs" land destruction.
I disagree with Fiery Emancipation. I run it in both my Zangief deck and Minc and Boo decks. Being able to swing with boo and chuck it at someone else and maybe take out 2 players from almost a standstill is great. I've been behind and just from getting Boo and putting the 3 counters on and maybe have 1 effect that increases the tokens and fiery out, is enough for people to make blocks that they wouldn't normally do and it stops me from taking damage on the return.
Zangief loves doing excess damage, so being able to do so much damage means a lot more excess damage. Also, with chandra's ignition it wipes the board of all opponents creatures and enchants/artifacts.
The lifegain artifact, you forget that lifegain decks are slow and need card draw, in a dedicated lifegain deck, that card is one of the best things in the deck. No, of course it doesn't go in a deck that "just has some" lifegain, it has to be a full on lifegain deck.
Edit: Black market? Really? My rat deck loves this card, the most I've gotten on it was 65 mana counters on it. And with the Lab Rats buyback spell I was just spitting out lots of rats and yeah, super win more, but also makes people very cautious with their attacks. Every creature that dies, gives you mana. This is so much better now that manaburn is gone. Before the downside of this was it killed you. Now you just cast a huge X spell and melt everyone.
Fiery Emancipation isn't for creature heavy decks, Kykar, Riku, Purphoros, and other decks like these really like that enchantment. Oloro is the most free Well of Lost Dreams commander, but its a weird value only artifact but not mana efficient for higher levels of play. idk about Crucible, I don't play dragons, and I don't often see dragon players. Assemble the Legion is from a bygone era, edh is now too fast for it generally. Reya is 9 mana and doesn't win the game, nearly worthless. Fight decks like Thantis or Maarika like Hunter's Insight. Also, don't cast it before blockers, duh. Generally you shouldn't target already shoe-in kill spell targets either, yes you won't get optimum card draw every time, but make your opponents chose between the obvious spooky or the card draw. As Foretold is so slow, too slow imo. MAYBE in decks that need mana on every turn often, like your game plan revolves around dumping mana into abilities or X costs, its a nice way to keep access to counterspells and reactions without needing to slow your main game plan down. Push may only be 1 mana, but that's one mana I COULD use elsewhere. A lot of the time I see players trying to cast whatever is biggest from their hand for free when that's not always the best play. Black Market is another bygone era cards. As foretold is generally better. I don't even know what deck Door of Destinies was made for, every creature deck that I see that REALLY cares about athems, are tokens. This is a cast trigger, big suck. Second Harvest is Elf Ball, funny that the art is Humans. Hellkite is 8 mana, doesn't win the game, at least not for a while, I'll pass. Magic Mirror is like 3 mana, draw over time. It a new card made for an EDH that doesn't exist anymore. Its like a REALLY bad Rhystic Study or Mystic Remora.
I think a loosing Board does Not have to be an empty Board.
I’m glad I’ve never wanted to play any of these cards in the first place. Maybe Assemble The Legion but cut it early on because I never played it/when I have it sucks. Same as Breath of Fury, Across like ten games I would get the card in my hand and either never play it of the damage never go through and it just be a waste of mana so got cut.
Hunters insight is a borderline auto include in all my green stompy decks, you shut your mouth. He'll, I died happy bc I willingly killed myself by drawing my deck with my gruel baeloth barytal entertainer who was a 80/80 huge dude (It was the last couple turns of the game and I was going to lose on the backswing anyway...bc my commander was goaded.)
But it is a clutch card in all my big green Stompy decks. It's definitely a parity breaker for sure and Drew Me into answers many times....fog , arachnogenesus, heroic intervention, obscuring haze, ezuris predation, constant mists, sheltering word...it's absolutely clutch in the losing quadrant And fantastic in parity
I do still run Utvara, but in my Ur Dragon deck so he's cheaper. That deck relies hard on Dragon ETBs, so the ability to basically double my Dragons is usually a finishing move. It triggers stuff like Terror of the Peaks, Dragon Tempest, and Scourge of Valkas like crazy.
It turns my deck from single-player removal to winning. I am aware most combat-focused Dragon decks don't need this, but Dragon ETB effects are the name of my game. That deck has no intention of waiting for next turn to get value off any Dragon
If you’re running a Themberchaud deck, Fiery Emancipation usually signals death. Usually a Lightning Bolt for 60-90 damage is following it. That card gives me Thumberchuds (The sour belches)
Assemble the legion works with Ceasar, Legions Emperor because each turns it gives you tokens to sac. So if you get wiped, you can still cast Caesar next turn and have some tokens thanks to Assemble. That´s why I still play it in that deck, however, I have considered taking it our for something faster.
Fiery emacipation is hardly a dead draw unless you just can't cast it, even when people have boards up, your making a 2/2 trade for basically almost any 5 drop in the game hell a 4 power creature can take out the largest creature's in the game, even behind it's fine for developing your board if you can keep your stuff scary
Hunter's Insight is a cool card, always I played! always work! 5-6 cards for 3 mana, maybe you play with people that only have interaction all the time or super optimized/competitive decks. And... Second Harvest is a budget bomb in my Trostani deck.
As Foretold is amazing in decks that play a lot of cheap instants. It says, "once each turn," so that includes your opponents' turns. Of course it's best if As Foretold comes out early so you can cast bigger spells for free, but even if it comes down late in a deck with a lot of cheap instants you can cast plenty of 1-2 cost spells for free each turn cycle. I really love using As Foretold to hold up interaction. I might be tapped out but have a Miscast, Pongify, or Counterspell in hand ready to go
hunters insight draws you 0 or 10
Yeah it's never used on a 3 power creature. Still I see the comparison and there are other, better draw for power cards
At first I was willing to accept that I may be wrong with Fiery Emancipation but then when you down play how strong card advantage can be no matter how little and use people building their decks poorly as an argument against that card then you lose me. deck should have a strong mana economy and if it doesn't, then it was doomed to fail anyways! Then you bring up Crucible of Fire and you went off the deep end. I dont know if you two just never seen a decent dragon deck before or what but nothing here makes sense. Do you know how easy it is to cheat dragons out? The various Sarkhan cards, Dragon's Hedge, Tiamat, and plenty of other cards that just cheat cards out in general. Not to mention all the reducers there are such as Ur Dragon. There's also Miiryim that just duplicates every Dragon. Combine all that and do you really not see how quickly and easily +3/+3 can get unstoppable?
Edit: Please dont take this comment the wrong way. I think you guys have a lot of great knowledge and i love this channel but there were some things I just really didn't get.
I really think all this cards depend on the powerlevel of your deck, your playgroup and on your playstyle.
If i am losing i just wanna see a teferis protection, a board wipe like Farewell or cyclonic rift... if i'm winning i'm already winning and every card is just fuel
I know Reya is past her prime, but who pays 9 mana for Reya? She only ever (really) went in reanimator. And a 4/6 flyer that brings your best creature back each turn is still amazing for 2 mana even at today's silly power level.
Are there better finishers? Obviously, but how is this card in the same category as Assemble the Legion?
Disagree of Fiery Emancipation. Any “fair deck” running trampling creatures wants it. So many ways to give haste in red, you can drop a bomb, force blocks and effectivly wipe someone or out right kill them. I also enjoy it in my slinger decks like Tor Waki the Younger.
I disagree with Utvara, in my Ur Dragon Deck, it's a 7 drop off the top, but you throw this out there with Miirym and Roaming throne, it gets overwhelming very quickly. You can cheat this out with a cost reducer and/or Defense of the Heart. Even then, about the 5th or 6th turn, if this card comes out it develops a board presence very quickly.
As they said, when you’re winning it’s great
I'd be a bit shocked if you're untapping with 7 mana in an Ur-dragon deck, Miirym and Roaming throne out and people's alarm bells of removal aren't on overdrive, they honestly deserve to lose if they let that board state continue to exist.
@@zsorens4570 agreed, though it can happen pretty quickly with defense of the heart and getting a two free creatures, keep a counterspell in and the entire package can (and has) come out turn 5, if you have a haste generator like Temur Asc or something similar it cascades quickly
I would say that these cards are great when you and another player have been dominating and building but you need that final piece to win. Fiery Emancipation is that piece.
This list sounds like youre trying to be edgy and controversial rather than accurate. In general I think you're poorly weighting phases. To the extent that "losing" is overweighted. Yes losing is when you really need the card to turn things around, but you don't seem to take into account flow states. On top of that, you guys make a TON of straw man arguments about some of these cards, saying they're bad, but the examples you give are not examples of what the card should be used for.
For instance, Hunters insight should only be cast after blockers are declared for instance, which contradicts most of your argument about that card (that there's a lot that can go wrong, in which you highlight the spell fizzling- the only time it should fizzle is if someone casts an instant, not if your creature gets blocked.) On top of that, it allows a more aggressive playstyle because it let's you get into a winning state and then recharge your hand. It's not valuable to draw, but it's valuable a hold card. It gives the assurance you need to take risk. It's not as great a card as some people say, but it highlights what you're looking past.
Black market is perfect, you shut your mouth. Tergrid get targeted in every game, black market ensures i can always get her back out. Same with when i play, shirei....its pretty nasty pumping black market to 16+ after dropping it on turn 4 in one turn and slamming a x=18 torment on turn 5
Fiery emancipation has helped me quite a few times. My wife's merfolk deck has a tendency to be explosive. This let me wipe her board with blazing volley and burn my opponents out with burn spells. I'll never cut fiery emancipation.
I play decks that aim to win on turn 7, it's never been a dead draw for me
I have hunters insight in my Sarulf, Realm Eater deck. It’s great because the board is always empty and my commander is always huge. Plus I have a bunch of cards that can give Sarulf trample or just double his power
Fiery Emancipation: “If you don’t have a board” Then you should be recasting your commander. Especially if it has Flying or Trample.
I think from a power level perspective, you're right, but the whole point of a casual format like commander is that we get to play these huge spells with big payoffs even if they're technically not the best. Everyone loves playing big win buttons like Akroma's will or Craterhoof even though from a power standpoint we should all be playing more wraths instead
The main problem I have with this Quadrant Theory is that some of these cards can still be good in certsin decks, sometimes even regardless of some of the quadrants. The quadrant theory seems to be more of a generalization. It is a good way of understanding Magic and cards as a whole though and when to play or not play cards.
I think there is an argument for some of these that makes them good early game when you think about the politics. A few of the 4/5 mana cards mentions come down and do nothing initially which on the face of it aren’t great, however they also signal ‘I am not the threat’. In many decks that aren’t designed to take the game head on early, and equally a lot of newer players to magic might find it in their favour, playing these cards while someone else puts down a big problem can buy you almost 2/3 turns to build advantage from the shadows. I definitely agree with cutting the ‘win more’ cards though (or finding holes in a deck where you have nothing good to play when loosing)- they are hard to part with, and sometimes hard to spot, and this quadrant idea certainly helps to identify them.
Nothing says more about power creep than the fact that they kept calling Reya a 6/6
Reya is great in tons of areas in my experience...though she's only in 2 of my decks. Mono white angels and my Kalia deck. My Kalia REALLY likes reya
I really enjoyed the concept of this video, but the almost static images of the 2x2 grid and card for long stretches is terribly boring. Maybe indicate which of the 4 squares in the grid you are focusing on?
Turn 3 with my sauron lord of rings I evoke muldrifter, turn 4 buried alive jin gataxiios core augar, sheoldred the whispering one, and anger, turn reanimate sheoldred, game over by my upkeep they all quit
You cast Hunter's Insight after blockers have been declared so flashing in a creature to try and block doesn't really work in that scenario. Still I don't play it in much decks, only my mono green deck and Xenagos.
It should be noted that As Foretold says "each turn". Any sort of deck that runs a ton of low cost instants can get a TON of value from this. 1 turn makes all your cantrips free. 2 turns gives you a free counterspell every turn. If it stopped there it would be fine.
Crucible of Fire for mono red Lathliss? I'm thinking yes because it's free tokens benefitting once she's on the field? Keeping it in atm but always like the advice NN.
Cool visualization, although I think an unwritten benefit of some cards appearing "bad" in the early game is the whole "under the radar" side of edh which I think is powerful as well.
Now i get that The Magic mirror is more conditional than other cards that go into the same slot, but concider it in a cantrip deck with alot of low-cost instant and sorceries in the deck, and taka a honest minute to compare it to The One Ring for example. it can easily come down on turn 3 in a mono blue deck. i.e. turn one > Consider turn 2: any mana rock turn 3: Frantic Search into magic mirror. bonus points when you have proliferate in your deck. So i would argue that situationally its better than the best draw card in the whole format. But i do agree that it is very situational, and its really rare when you get it on the field on turn 3. plus im sure there are more optimal ways to get it in even earlier, with gitaxian probes and all that, but even in a budget mono blue deck it can play better it can be better than one ring.
You guys are just wrong about Hunter's Insight. You talk about how good Ghalta is, but using the same logic what if Ghalta just gets countered or destroyed-- bad card?
This video just makes me think they only care about preventing losing and not actually trying to win. Multiple of these cards have won me games. And every card has a point where it's not as good. But thinking that cards are not bad just because they aren't an early game card or a catching up card.
GRAVE TITAN: good in parity, good when winning, good when losing. commander staple.
well of lost dreams does gods work in my gf's Amalia deck
assemble the legion is incredible in my winota deck
I don't trust the quadrant theory. Take Esper Sentinel for example. It's "bad" in a winning, loosing and parity scenario.
well... when a card can't help you when you are losing, cut it.
that's what you say... But developping his gameplan is the key as long you don't play an hard control tivit like deck.
sorry but hunter's insight really is a battle trick. you don't bother casting it until something gets through either through trample for more than 1 or you sneak a card in and they let it go. your not wanting to telegraph this play, just hey, i'm going to swing a creature at you for 3, that ok. and when they don't block, then use it t help refill your hand.
but i do agree that this is not a great play normally, but some decks this is an easy fit. play rogue's passage or have other effects like it, boom easy add in.
hurts to agree. I have a pretty version of Fiery Emancipation. And well is just lit :/ but valuable insight ;) thx guys
I definitely agree with these cards, even though they are still fine, it's just hard to justify a lot of the investments required to make them worth keeping in a deck. Of course there are always exceptions, like Well of Lost Dreams is actually just busted in Sheoldred, the Apocalypse, but you're always going to have those synergies that pop up.
StA is one of two commanders I have found Well to be playable in. The other is Queza. I've cut it from Sheoldred, even, but despite my Queza deck being mono wheels, Well still works really well there.
I think hunters insight is probably the one I disagree with here. It being an instant is amazing. even if someone counters the card or kills the creature you are still making them use something. And usually this is getting you 3-6 cards.
Fiery emancipation is an overrun effect, either for combat based decks or burn. It is a wincon. Win cons aren't useful except to win. It's not a "win more" card.