God does. Don’t ever forget that. Because God is not mocked whatsoever we sew that we shall also reap. I hope you are doing ok. I see this is a year old post. Your husband will reap all he has sewn just remember to be faithful to God yourself. I have been in your place before too. I’m so sorry. It sucks. But you are fearfully and wonderfully made and God has not forgotten you! He has plans for you of a hope and a future. READ Psalms always. Every day if you can. It helps so much!❤❤❤
And mothers, wives, sisters, brothers, siblings, grandparents, etc. (As it's now approx. 50/ 50% ... across the board.) There has been an virtual (think: print, radio, television, the internet, etc.) 'explosion' in Cluster B personality, particularly since the advent of modern technologies... And ALL "houses of worship," law, governance, business, banking, the military, etc. have always had a MUCH higher concentration, the higher up the hierarchical pyramid, one goes! (i.e. Anyone and everyone who actively SEKS an audience, powe rand control, etc.)
Thank you Ben. My husband was a Minister. He was cheating on me and I was trauma bonded to him. He lost his credentials when I found out the double life he was living. I have been through hell. Wow! Horrible it's in the church! Definitely wolves in sheep's clothing.
Yup the definitely don’t like the way I dress because I have wolf tattoos and wear coyote tails so I’m definitely not dressed in sheep’s clothing. I don’t hide who I am. Most people who claim to be wolves are people who seek money and are very greedy lie cheat and steel to get ahead. That’s not a wolf. That’s a deceiver misinterpreting god animals. Wolves can teach you a lot about patience, loyalty, family
Don’t forget how they manipulate and tap your phone to sin your sins are so then get the audacity to torment you , stalk you and constantly try to punish you and claim your the unforgiven because one doesn’t agree with the manipulation and bullshit. It’s losses them off when you see through it like a plain glass window
Yes because of Narcissism in the church and abuse experienced. I now am aware at why they say the devil is IN THE CHURCH. Majority of church goers are manipulated and abused and never experience God’s love because of it
I was happy with my Bible study in the beginning. When I realized the leader was a narcissist, he deliberately shamed me. I signed up to go to another Bible study. I have avoided him. If and when I ever see him again, I will either go gray rock or walk away. I no longer have respect for him.
BEN THIS IS WHY I HAVE A PRAYER ROOM IN MY HOUSE. THE ABILITY OF GOD IS WITHIN US, NOT PASTORS, ESPECIALLY GET RICH ONES THRU THEOLOGY. EXACTLY 💯, AND IN A WIDE SECTOR OF CHURCHES. SMHEAD
I would caution that churches will prevail. The problem is finding a God honoring and well balanced church! The church is the Bridegroom of Christ and the gates of hell (or narcissism) will not prevail against it. So let's all ask God for discernment before we get involved with a church, and ask God to lead us to a good church!
I have experienced everything you speak of Sir 😅. Church seems to reward Narcissism and its filled with people faking love just to get a taste of the spotlight.
Thank you, thank you and thank you!!! Lived though a narcissist father and then a horrible narcissist bully of a pastor. You have helped me see clearly what I've seen all along but was made to feel crazy or "holding unforgiveness" Ugh! I now feel free from the confusion and will not endure people like this in my life anymore!!!! Thank you!!
I'm 65 and its only been in the last decade or so that I've come to see that my main problem was not so much the narcissistic pastors I followed, though that's is a huge problem in the church, it was primarily being a very passive, 'Yes man'. I was taught that this is what Christians need to do. We keep ourselves under the authority of a pastor because, apparently, that what 'the bible says'! But praise be to God. He is breaking me out of my passivity and helping me grow in His strength. I'm not the saviour and neither are pastors, He is. So, the freedom to say, 'no' I will not be able to do that for you (to a narcissistic pastor or, others) and move on, without guilt feelings is so freeing. I am in the process of leaving a new church plant we started attending 18 months ago because the young 30 year old pastor is showing very serious signs of narcissistic tendencies. When we started attending this new church plant, his father was the senior pastor (the only pastor) and his son led worship. His son would preach the odd sermon. After about 3 months, the senior pastor gets up and announces that he is taking a position out west with a new church and his son would now be the full time pastor of this church! This left us a feeling a little concerned since we had not heard anything about his leaving. We already felt somewhat uneasy about the way the church was being led. It felt like a one man show. But we dismissed our feelings (i.e. discernment) because we were beginning to really love the people there. Anyway, fast forward one year and after getting involved with worship, the young upstart pastor approaches me and asks me if I could be part of his 4 men Servant team. It was in the reading of a document he handed me that the light of discernment flooded my heart. The document had this short but BOLDED phrase that read, "this is not a decision making position." It was hard to believe that a 30 year old, wet behind the ears, 'pastor' would ask a 65 year man (with a BA in theology, several diplomas etc..) to join his 'Servant team' and have 'no say' in the leading of the ministry of the church. I was truly baffled that he would have the audacity to put that phrase in this document. I was nearly speechless and managed to say, " let me pray about this." His facial expression was one of disappointment since he thought I would sign, no questions asked, " Yes, master, where do I sign!" He called me the next day and attempted in his manipulative way of getting me on his servant team. "But Pete, you're already doing a servant's work in the church". I led worship once a month or so. Always with his continual suggestions on 'how to play' the songs I had chosen for that Sunday. I had also started a support group for men struggling with sex and porn addiction that was being blessed by God. It was during that pressuring conversation to convince me to join his team that I decided, with my wife, it was time to move out from underneath this narcissistic young man and trust that God would lead us wherever He wanted. So, I replied that I was not interested in joining his team. Perhaps I should say something before leaving about my concerns with his leadership style, but the truth is that this particular denomination have adopted the 'Moses model', as they call it. In other words, the pastor is Moses and rules as God's anointed and that's where the buck stops. I know, yikes, right? We are praying about how to share our decisions with our closest friends and the members of our support groups (my wife was leading the wives group) which is going to be heartbreaking. But we're praying that they will understand why we can not stay. Either way, the Lord warned us about these types of leaders, didn't He? Sorry for the long story but I truly appreciated your lesson today and I approve this message ;)
I know exactly the denomination. CC. We had the same problem with the one man show “Moses Model” pastor. After we left that church, I did some digging on the founder, Chuck Smith, and it turns out, he was a false prophet. He predicted the second coming of Christ and had all the church goers (can’t all them members because they don’t have members because that would interfere with the Moses model) show up to wait for Jesus to come back. Of course it was a false prophecy and the Bible has a lot to say about false prophets, like beware, turn away, and don’t fear them. Only half of the people in the “church” left after Papa Chuck’s false prophecy. And the denomination has mega churches all over today. This denomination was founded by a false prophet.
Great video! My newest ex is a supposed Christian whom is constantly calling people sinners and false doctrine if they don’t have the same view as him as the rapture! It’s disgustingly bad how he goes about it. And he doesn’t look in the mirror to see his own flaws and sins meanwhile judging others. Yet just found out he has pending criminal charges and he’s still going around telling ppl that they’re preaching false doctrine! Narcissism is definitely within the Christian community! Look in the mirror and fix yourself before you judge others
When you sign church membership papers...beware...pastors can legally bring in whoever they want in a "counseling" situation(no legal privacy)! I had a pastor try to force me into counseling with all the married members of the church; good thing it was a small group. I chose to leave the church and find a new one.
Yes churches are great hiding places for narcissists. Unfortunately. But if you had to be propped up as a facade 99% of the time it’s easier to do if you go to church every Sunday. Or should I say the ‘sales job’ becomes easier because Christians are very accepting to those that (we think) are of the faith. I worked in 2 Christian schools and STRONGLY suspect narcissistic activity in both. This triggered my CPTSD on both occasions. So in both occasions I left. By their fruit shall you know them.😊
Very good. 4:10, these are often subtle, in the form of concern and advice that discourages participation by making people self conscious while appearing to be empathetic. The parishioners feel they’re being cared for yet the pastor’s consolidating influence.
On Vulnerabilities; They won’t admit their own weakness to others because they know, they themselves, will always use your own weaknesses as a weapon of control and they fear this will happen to them. This is their normal.
Great video Ben! I grew up in churches and it felt like if I didn't please the pastor or workers in the church they would hate me. Most churches are narcissistic because they try to look helpful from the beginning then expect double reward from this and if you don't do it they would make you feel guilty and unless you fix the problem, they don't want to hear from you! I had this happen to me! I believe we are lucky to have Jesus Christ as a free gift he cares about us! Follow Jesus Christ our only way to heaven!
I grew up in the church. I look back on it and I see it now that I know what it is. I had no clue as a kid. I knew some things weren’t right and I did question things. When I questioned, I was told “that’s what you believe. You don’t question it.” The church met my ex in, I believe, has a pastor (and family) that has narcissistic tendencies. It is nauseating to think about it all. I see it. Everything you’re saying resonates with my childhood in the church and with the one I ended up in.
Thank you, Ben for having the courage to speak the truth about this. It’s my opinion that I truly believe Christ can and would heal a narcissist-even a Christian who professes that they are Christian who struggles with narcissism. These are the people in church that would be considered wolves in sheeps clothing. Christ can and would make these people new in Him by transforming their hardened heart with His love and sanctification. There’s no personality issue or character dysfunction that’s too difficult or impossible for Christ to heal. However, It’s up to the person and how badly they want to know God and what it truly means to believe in Him and have a close relationship with Him. They’ve got to be willing to look at their wicked, evil, sinful heart. They’ve got to be willing to face their shame. Every Christian who’s been born again must go through this process and continue to go through this process. It’s a lifetime commitment to the process of sanctification.
I hear you. It’s tough dealing with those emotional swings and seeking forgiveness repeatedly. For more support and tools to navigate these experiences, join our free Masterclass here: www.rawmotivations.com/masterclass You’re not alone in this journey. 💪✨
Yes, I have with Calvinists. I was even commanded once to not read my Bible, but only reformists' literature. Being hated for only standing on the Bible, not men-crafted teachings, including Calvinism. I have had pastors get others to treat me hatefully for not succumbing to various man-crafted doctrines that are styling in the Christian community. There are many in the church who love being a pastor's hit person. They love the attention he suddenly bestows on them when they do what they are commanded even if it involves lying and deceiving. Later, when done with them, he can ignore them.
@@urbanvoice5323 Calvinism occultism is a plot of satan to remove God's chosen Jews out of the picture. Satan hates the Jews because they are chosen of Almighty God. Calvin rewrites the Bible as do all of those who follow the doctrines of demons. Regarding the Jews and Jerusalem’s future hope: “And in that day I will set about to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.” “It will come about in that day that I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples; all who lift it will be severely injured. And all the nations of the earth will be gathered against it.” And in that millennial day, a Gentile will grab the garment of a Jew and request to worship with him at Christ’s Jerusalem temple that Christ will build Himself: (Zechariah 12:9,3, 8:23 and 6:12) "Many nations will join themselves to the LORD in that day and will become My people. Then I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me to you. (Zechariah 2: 11) 'For I,' declares the LORD, 'will be a wall of fire around her (Jerusalem), and I will be the glory in her midst.'" (Zechariah 2:5) And Christ will keep his promises as revealed in Matthew 24 and in other portions of Scripture. God never lies and He will not change His mind as He knows the end from the beginning and Christ declared all prophecies will come to pass. And Christ spoke of Zechariah and quoted this book four times. The Bible is true and all prophesies will come to pass that are yet to unfold. It a cult of the occult that uses one type of method to begin to recruit. A member of this false cult who lurks in Bible-believing churches will ask you if you are a Calvinist or an Arminian. A Calvinist will continue the dialogue if you are confounded and offer no answer. He will lie and say you have to follow one or the other. They will explain, well, you are a liberal if you follow Jacob Arminius. Just crazy!!!! Many take the mark of Calvin so they can be part of this satanic club and be accepted by the false prophets. It is all about being one or the other. It is entirely lame to tell anyone they have to be a follower of some wicked, sinful man. It is a lie from the pit of hell. It is akin to telling you, you must follow Jim who lives to the right of you or Joe who lives to the left of you. It is insane wickedness and stupidity. You do not have to follow any reformist’s demonic teachings. Christ did not go around asking folk, well, do tell, who do you follow John Calvin or Jacob Arminius? John Calvin followed Augustine the father of the Catholic church, an idolater, who worshipped Mary. This is why he believed in the heresy of infant baptism. He stole doctrines from Augustine. Augustine taught the Catholic church replaced the Jews. Calvin changed it to say believers replaced Israel. Please watch video of popes praying before bones, including Augustine’s: ruclips.net/video/GtphyBYFgAg/видео.html Augustine was loved by Calvin and they both denied the book of Revelation and did not believe in the Millennial (being amillennial) rule of Christ taught throughout the Old and New Testaments. Calvin’s John 3:16 heresy gospel-God so loved two percent of the world or so that He gave His only begotten son for the two percent or so, that if these two percent or so believe on Him they might be saved and not perish but have everlasting life. Calvinists do not believe in Jesus Christ being Almighty God and able to die for the sins of all who have lived, are living and will live. John Calvin believed in general society owning worth. He believed society would conquer satan. Calvin: “Wherefore, the sense will be (in my judgment) that the human race, which Satan was endeavoring to oppress, would at length be victorious.” “To mean the posterity of the woman generally.” He later added reformists into this equation further into his commentary on Genesis 3:15. It is all insane as with much of what he writes in his commentaries that is blasphemous. I see why Calvin is called a humanist. Read his verse 15 commentary-www.christianity.com/bible/commentary.php?com=clvn&b=1&c=3 This Frenchman, Calvin, did deny Jesus Christ by saying it was not Christ who would bruise satan on the head at the time of His crucifixion, being a false prophet, blasphemer and heretic. Christ did perform this at the time of His death, as the seed of the woman is God the Son. Is it not interesting, Catholics lie and state, Mary was the one who bruised satan on the head? Once again, you see Calvin taking idolatrous Catholicism (Augustine-ism) and changing it to his own blasphemous liking. Calvin, through his commentaries, wrote his own heretical bible with his own evil, hateful, false christ. “John Calvin followed Augustine’s biblical justification for burning heretics. Augustine excused extreme measures through his interpretation of Jesus’ Great Banquet parable in Luke 14:16-24. When the master could not fill up his banquet in the parable, he commanded his servants in Luke 14:23 ‘to compel people to come so that my house will be filled.’ Augustine and Calvin believed burning heretics would ‘compel’ more people to enter their house of God. Interpreting ‘compulsion’ as a license to kill.” I have personally seen how Calvinists would love to kill me for not following their cult. And Revelation, in chapter 19, we read of satan being cast into the lake of fire by an angel through the agency of Christ following the tribulation. And he will be rebased for a short period following the Millennial rule of Christ. Because Calvin believed in satan being bound, some generations following Adam and Eve, true Calvinists believe satan is bound today and society is relevant to Christianity.
But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. (2 Timothy 3:1-5)
I'm new to this church and it's not the pastor that is but one of the teachers she did all those thing you just mentioned I see it very clearly,total nightmare
I felt compelled to leave some churches in my city in Canada. Not all are run by characters of 2 Timothy 3 or in the Book of Jude. Church can be done the way the Bible says (Acts 17). I feel welcomed in many coffee shops, for the most part, younger staff are open to being prayed with, encouraging them with relevant scripture and having open discussions about hard questions. My tithes turned to tips...
Yeah, great idea. The churches are corrupted. None, in my town go into the world and preach the gospel, or pray for anyone. They just keep preaching to each other and competing with each other. it's actually disgusts me.
Threatening approach by angry assistant pastor in a disturbing assaulting manner. I was very frightened for my safety Im disabled elderly. This was in fact an assault which has upset me deeply. This pastor refused to apologize saying "that never happened". months later I was able to meet with him and an elder and a friend he admitted nothing obfiscating lying lying and more lying. He finally made an indefinite apology. It is a crime in my state and federal law to assault a disabled elderly person. I was advised by a counselor to make a police complaint and to make a claim civilly. What a hassle.. I think I need to do this to set a boundary for my safety.
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They think they owe you so they say what they like. The narcs will never apologize for their mistakes but expect others to forgive them no matter what. When others face problems, he has the cheek to say it is because you dont forgive him. That is christianity.
Yes, I actually googled narcissism in the congregation and found your video. I have concerns about the church I go to. One of my friends was ex communicated because she left her husband who is a religious narcissist and ofcourse she couldn't take the abuse. I feel that was unfair. Last Sunday I was approached by a member of the congregation who saw the leftover Halloween decorations in my yard and she accused me of worshipping Satan but only after I told her that I was struggling with a mental health diagnosis which she diminished. She went on to imply I created my own problems by drawing evil to myself through the plastic skulls. She insisted I must clean them up or she would never bring children to my house and then said she was doing this because she loved me. I never told her how much I love children. She doesn't have access to children. Weird and scary. The former pastor that died I suspected was a narcissist. I feel scared. I haven't been going there very long so how did she know I love children. It's so weird and scary. If anyone has any thoughts I'd welcome them.
Hi, how can I send you my book? It is about how narcissism is spiritual . It’s titled “When Satan plays match maker, exploring the spiritual side of narcissism “
" These holy shepards " : Rules are for thee, but no for me. Running around telling people don't do this and that yet a lot of them have really colourful backstories. Eg: Ex drug addicts, Ex adult entertainers, even engaging in underground street fights.
I was stalked by a narcissist Baptist minister for 5 years, he had several sheriff officers in his church and labeled me as a potential criminal. Then managed to attain the Sheriffs invasive device to watch me in my home with his people from his church operating the equipment. He had his people break into my vehicles at night and move things around so that I had no peace of mind. He sent church people to tell me that he owned me, and that if I did not work in his church that I was a floater and my life had no value or meaning. The Sheriff patrol cars were driving by me most every day and to me seemed to be a threat. The Pastor demanded that I go on medication and in his opinion I was mentally ill, so I went on the medication, then he wanted me off the medication. My Father died and the Pastor harassed me before and after his death. The Pastor tried to steal the inheritance money with the invasive equipment. I caught him in a crime, he went to trial and to prison. My reputation is ruined, my family is gone, and the Sheriff is still after me 20 years later. The Justice system cannot dismiss the Sheriff and the invasive equipment is still to this day on my private home. God has spared me for 25 years.
The pastor of the church I attend always falls out with talented or gifted people. These people end up leaving. The attrition in our congregation is a “bleed” and current attendance is very low…very low. He has no disciples or assistant pastors and at the moment the praise leader just left. I heard that he gave the pastor feedback and it was not well received.
I've seen more evil, selfish, jealous, clicky, behaviour in churches, more than anywhere in the world! Mostly coming from leaders and their family who are also in positions in the same church. Truly sad Jesus is represented like this... it's destroying the church!
@@terrimartinez9045 they can be everywhere. I meant there is no power ranks like a pastor, priest or pope. Everyone is equal. I grew up in it to. Jehovah is the way and only way for me. He showed me many times who he is. Thank you ;)
Yes my husband thinks because he knows the kingdom he is better than everyone and mistreats is the moment he walks in the door. But people at work get kingdom kindness cards and gifts.
There are more churches that have good intentions I would say that not not everybody in the church is a narcissist of them are genuinely good people trying to do good things. I don’t like how you speak on it like narcissism just flooded in the churches they’re not there are some of course just like everywhere else in the world, but churches do more help than anything bad.
A "self aware narcissist" sounds like an oxymoron. I've seen other RUclipsrs calling themselves as "self proclaimed narcissists" talking from their point of view as narcissists...... You don't strike me as that type of person. I think what happened is while you were a child, you picked up and adopted the bad behavior patterns of the adults in your life, but before hitting the age of 40, you realized that was wrong, and made some changes...... Therefore I don't think you fit the description of a narcissist in the here and now.
It’s husbands, too. Everyone believes he’s great, but no other person sees what he does to his family.
God does. Don’t ever forget that. Because God is not mocked whatsoever we sew that we shall also reap. I hope you are doing ok. I see this is a year old post. Your husband will reap all he has sewn just remember to be faithful to God yourself. I have been in your place before too. I’m so sorry. It sucks. But you are fearfully and wonderfully made and God has not forgotten you! He has plans for you of a hope and a future. READ Psalms always. Every day if you can. It helps so much!❤❤❤
Dont forget Wives too.
I'm sorry
And mothers, wives, sisters, brothers, siblings, grandparents, etc. (As it's now approx. 50/ 50% ... across the board.) There has been an virtual (think: print, radio, television, the internet, etc.) 'explosion' in Cluster B personality, particularly since the advent of modern technologies... And ALL "houses of worship," law, governance, business, banking, the military, etc. have always had a MUCH higher concentration, the higher up the hierarchical pyramid, one goes! (i.e. Anyone and everyone who actively SEKS an audience, powe rand control, etc.)
Misogynists are narcissists even the female narcissists.
Thank you Ben.
My husband was a Minister. He was cheating on me and I was trauma bonded to him. He lost his credentials when I found out the double life he was living. I have been through hell. Wow! Horrible it's in the church! Definitely wolves in sheep's clothing.
Praise God, his sins found him out and he reaped what he sowed.
Yup the definitely don’t like the way I dress because I have wolf tattoos and wear coyote tails so I’m definitely not dressed in sheep’s clothing. I don’t hide who I am. Most people who claim to be wolves are people who seek money and are very greedy lie cheat and steel to get ahead. That’s not a wolf. That’s a deceiver misinterpreting god animals. Wolves can teach you a lot about patience, loyalty, family
Don’t forget how they manipulate and tap your phone to sin your sins are so then get the audacity to torment you , stalk you and constantly try to punish you and claim your the unforgiven because one doesn’t agree with the manipulation and bullshit. It’s losses them off when you see through it like a plain glass window
Yes because of Narcissism in the church and abuse experienced. I now am aware at why they say the devil is IN THE CHURCH. Majority of church goers are manipulated and abused and never experience God’s love because of it
Misogynists are narcissists and they purposely mistranslated God's holy word! Jesus Christ is an Egalitarian ❤
This was our youth leader to a tee. He treated the other adults in the church this way. He also treated his family this way. I'm sure he still does.
I was happy with my Bible study in the beginning. When I realized the leader was a narcissist, he deliberately shamed me. I signed up to go to another Bible study. I have avoided him. If and when I ever see him again, I will either go gray rock or walk away. I no longer have respect for him.
BEN THIS IS WHY I HAVE A PRAYER ROOM IN MY HOUSE. THE ABILITY OF GOD IS WITHIN US, NOT PASTORS, ESPECIALLY GET RICH ONES THRU THEOLOGY. EXACTLY 💯, AND IN A WIDE SECTOR OF CHURCHES. SMHEAD
I would caution that churches will prevail. The problem is finding a God honoring and well balanced church! The church is the Bridegroom of Christ and the gates of hell (or narcissism) will not prevail against it. So let's all ask God for discernment before we get involved with a church, and ask God to lead us to a good church!
Keep going, getting this message out saves actual lives from these predators.
Doctor Ramani has a great video on self righteous narcissist.
I have experienced everything you speak of Sir 😅. Church seems to reward Narcissism and its filled with people faking love just to get a taste of the spotlight.
Thank you, thank you and thank you!!! Lived though a narcissist father and then a horrible narcissist bully of a pastor. You have helped me see clearly what I've seen all along but was made to feel crazy or "holding unforgiveness" Ugh! I now feel free from the confusion and will not endure people like this in my life anymore!!!! Thank you!!
Would love to help you on your healing journey. If I can be of help feel free to grab a time here at rawmotivations.com/one-on-ones
I've met noting but spiritual narcissists in churches, bully's from their position, mockers, control freaks I will never go back to these places
I'm 65 and its only been in the last decade or so that I've come to see that my main problem was not so much the narcissistic pastors I followed, though that's is a huge problem in the church, it was primarily being a very passive, 'Yes man'. I was taught that this is what Christians need to do. We keep ourselves under the authority of a pastor because, apparently, that what 'the bible says'! But praise be to God. He is breaking me out of my passivity and helping me grow in His strength. I'm not the saviour and neither are pastors, He is. So, the freedom to say, 'no' I will not be able to do that for you (to a narcissistic pastor or, others) and move on, without guilt feelings is so freeing. I am in the process of leaving a new church plant we started attending 18 months ago because the young 30 year old pastor is showing very serious signs of narcissistic tendencies. When we started attending this new church plant, his father was the senior pastor (the only pastor) and his son led worship. His son would preach the odd sermon. After about 3 months, the senior pastor gets up and announces that he is taking a position out west with a new church and his son would now be the full time pastor of this church! This left us a feeling a little concerned since we had not heard anything about his leaving. We already felt somewhat uneasy about the way the church was being led. It felt like a one man show. But we dismissed our feelings (i.e. discernment) because we were beginning to really love the people there. Anyway, fast forward one year and after getting involved with worship, the young upstart pastor approaches me and asks me if I could be part of his 4 men Servant team. It was in the reading of a document he handed me that the light of discernment flooded my heart. The document had this short but BOLDED phrase that read, "this is not a decision making position." It was hard to believe that a 30 year old, wet behind the ears, 'pastor' would ask a 65 year man (with a BA in theology, several diplomas etc..) to join his 'Servant team' and have 'no say' in the leading of the ministry of the church. I was truly baffled that he would have the audacity to put that phrase in this document. I was nearly speechless and managed to say, " let me pray about this." His facial expression was one of disappointment since he thought I would sign, no questions asked, " Yes, master, where do I sign!"
He called me the next day and attempted in his manipulative way of getting me on his servant team. "But Pete, you're already doing a servant's work in the church". I led worship once a month or so. Always with his continual suggestions on 'how to play' the songs I had chosen for that Sunday. I had also started a support group for men struggling with sex and porn addiction that was being blessed by God. It was during that pressuring conversation to convince me to join his team that I decided, with my wife, it was time to move out from underneath this narcissistic young man and trust that God would lead us wherever He wanted.
So, I replied that I was not interested in joining his team. Perhaps I should say something before leaving about my concerns with his leadership style, but the truth is that this particular denomination have adopted the 'Moses model', as they call it. In other words, the pastor is Moses and rules as God's anointed and that's where the buck stops. I know, yikes, right? We are praying about how to share our decisions with our closest friends and the members of our support groups (my wife was leading the wives group) which is going to be heartbreaking. But we're praying that they will understand why we can not stay. Either way, the Lord warned us about these types of leaders, didn't He? Sorry for the long story but I truly appreciated your lesson today and I approve this message ;)
I know exactly the denomination. CC. We had the same problem with the one man show “Moses Model” pastor. After we left that church, I did some digging on the founder, Chuck Smith, and it turns out, he was a false prophet. He predicted the second coming of Christ and had all the church goers (can’t all them members because they don’t have members because that would interfere with the Moses model) show up to wait for Jesus to come back. Of course it was a false prophecy and the Bible has a lot to say about false prophets, like beware, turn away, and don’t fear them. Only half of the people in the “church” left after Papa Chuck’s false prophecy. And the denomination has mega churches all over today. This denomination was founded by a false prophet.
Great video! My newest ex is a supposed Christian whom is constantly calling people sinners and false doctrine if they don’t have the same view as him as the rapture! It’s disgustingly bad how he goes about it. And he doesn’t look in the mirror to see his own flaws and sins meanwhile judging others. Yet just found out he has pending criminal charges and he’s still going around telling ppl that they’re preaching false doctrine! Narcissism is definitely within the Christian community! Look in the mirror and fix yourself before you judge others
When you sign church membership papers...beware...pastors can legally bring in whoever they want in a "counseling" situation(no legal privacy)! I had a pastor try to force me into counseling with all the married members of the church; good thing it was a small group. I chose to leave the church and find a new one.
Yes churches are great hiding places for narcissists. Unfortunately. But if you had to be propped up as a facade 99% of the time it’s easier to do if you go to church every Sunday. Or should I say the ‘sales job’ becomes easier because Christians are very accepting to those that (we think) are of the faith.
I worked in 2 Christian schools and STRONGLY suspect narcissistic activity in both. This triggered my CPTSD on both occasions. So in both occasions I left.
By their fruit shall you know them.😊
I have seen so so many. Most pastors are. Anything to run the business.
Very good. 4:10, these are often subtle, in the form of concern and advice that discourages participation by making people self conscious while appearing to be empathetic.
The parishioners feel they’re being cared for yet the pastor’s consolidating influence.
On Vulnerabilities;
They won’t admit their own weakness to others because they know, they themselves, will always use your own weaknesses as a weapon of control and they fear this will happen to them.
This is their normal.
Or they make up a fake vulnerability and use that to gaslight and control and make excuses for horrible behavior.
Great video Ben! I grew up in churches and it felt like if I didn't please the pastor or workers in the church they would hate me. Most churches are narcissistic because they try to look helpful from the beginning then expect double reward from this and if you don't do it they would make you feel guilty and unless you fix the problem, they don't want to hear from you! I had this happen to me! I believe we are lucky to have Jesus Christ as a free gift he cares about us! Follow Jesus Christ our only way to heaven!
I grew up in the church.
I look back on it and I see it now that I know what it is. I had no clue as a kid. I knew some things weren’t right and I did question things. When I questioned, I was told “that’s what you believe. You don’t question it.”
The church met my ex in, I believe, has a pastor (and family) that has narcissistic tendencies. It is nauseating to think about it all. I see it. Everything you’re saying resonates with my childhood in the church and with the one I ended up in.
THank you for sharing this! Hope you are doing better
😊 most important video on the planet right now_ we in a world of narcissism
I totally agree full heart. My father was pastor and I have notice many narcissistic behavior in the current church I am attending I am ready to run
Thank you, Ben for having the courage to speak the truth about this. It’s my opinion that I truly believe Christ can and would heal a narcissist-even a Christian who professes that they are Christian who struggles with narcissism. These are the people in church that would be considered wolves in sheeps clothing.
Christ can and would make these people new in Him by transforming their hardened heart with His love and sanctification. There’s no personality issue or character dysfunction that’s too difficult or impossible for Christ to heal.
However, It’s up to the person and how badly they want to know God and what it truly means to believe in Him and have a close relationship with Him. They’ve got to be willing to look at their wicked, evil, sinful heart. They’ve got to be willing to face their shame. Every Christian who’s been born again must go through this process and continue to go through this process. It’s a lifetime commitment to the process of sanctification.
I wish you would acknowledge the problems of lay leaders who display narcissistic tendencies
Oh yes all day long . Institutionally too, yes. Some to a degree most wouldn’t even believe unless they witnessed it, and even then.
Experienced this. Pastor just bursting out his emotion then asking for forgiveness. Experienced everything you explained.
I hear you. It’s tough dealing with those emotional swings and seeking forgiveness repeatedly. For more support and tools to navigate these experiences, join our free Masterclass here: www.rawmotivations.com/masterclass You’re not alone in this journey. 💪✨
Yes, I have with Calvinists. I was even commanded once to not read my Bible, but only reformists' literature. Being hated for only standing on the Bible, not men-crafted teachings, including Calvinism. I have had pastors get others to treat me hatefully for not succumbing to various man-crafted doctrines that are styling in the Christian community. There are many in the church who love being a pastor's hit person. They love the attention he suddenly bestows on them when they do what they are commanded even if it involves lying and deceiving. Later, when done with them, he can ignore them.
Maybe those were the calvinists you dealt or had experiences with, to label everyone with the same brush I dont think is very christ-like!
@@urbanvoice5323 Calvinism occultism is a plot of satan to remove God's chosen Jews out of the picture. Satan hates the Jews because they are chosen of Almighty God. Calvin rewrites the Bible as do all of those who follow the doctrines of demons.
Regarding the Jews and Jerusalem’s future hope: “And in that day I will set about to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.” “It will come about in that day that I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples; all who lift it will be severely injured. And all the nations of the earth will be gathered against it.” And in that millennial day, a Gentile will grab the garment of a Jew and request to worship with him at Christ’s Jerusalem temple that Christ will build Himself: (Zechariah 12:9,3, 8:23 and 6:12)
"Many nations will join themselves to the LORD in that day and will become My people. Then I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me to you. (Zechariah 2: 11)
'For I,' declares the LORD, 'will be a wall of fire around her (Jerusalem), and I will be the glory in her midst.'"
(Zechariah 2:5) And Christ will keep his promises as revealed in Matthew 24 and in other portions of Scripture.
God never lies and He will not change His mind as He knows the end from the beginning and Christ declared all prophecies will come to pass. And Christ spoke of Zechariah and quoted this book four times. The Bible is true and all prophesies will come to pass that are yet to unfold.
It a cult of the occult that uses one type of method to begin to recruit. A member of this false cult who lurks in Bible-believing churches will ask you if you are a Calvinist or an Arminian. A Calvinist will continue the dialogue if you are confounded and offer no answer. He will lie and say you have to follow one or the other. They will explain, well, you are a liberal if you follow Jacob Arminius. Just crazy!!!!
Many take the mark of Calvin so they can be part of this satanic club and be accepted by the false prophets.
It is all about being one or the other. It is entirely lame to tell anyone they have to be a follower of some wicked, sinful man. It is a lie from the pit of hell. It is akin to telling you, you must follow Jim who lives to the right of you or Joe who lives to the left of you. It is insane wickedness and stupidity. You do not have to follow any reformist’s demonic teachings. Christ did not go around asking folk, well, do tell, who do you follow John Calvin or Jacob Arminius?
John Calvin followed Augustine the father of the Catholic church, an idolater, who worshipped Mary. This is why he believed in the heresy of infant baptism. He stole doctrines from Augustine. Augustine taught the Catholic church replaced the Jews. Calvin changed it to say believers replaced Israel. Please watch video of popes praying before bones, including Augustine’s: ruclips.net/video/GtphyBYFgAg/видео.html
Augustine was loved by Calvin and they both denied the book of Revelation and did not believe in the Millennial (being amillennial) rule of Christ taught throughout the Old and New Testaments.
Calvin’s John 3:16 heresy gospel-God so loved two percent of the world or so that He gave His only begotten son for the two percent or so, that if these two percent or so believe on Him they might be saved and not perish but have everlasting life.
Calvinists do not believe in Jesus Christ being Almighty God and able to die for the sins of all who have lived, are living and will live.
John Calvin believed in general society owning worth. He believed society would conquer satan. Calvin: “Wherefore, the sense will be (in my judgment) that the human race, which Satan was endeavoring to oppress, would at length be victorious.” “To mean the posterity of the woman generally.” He later added reformists into this equation further into his commentary on Genesis 3:15. It is all insane as with much of what he writes in his commentaries that is blasphemous. I see why Calvin is called a humanist. Read his verse 15 commentary-www.christianity.com/bible/commentary.php?com=clvn&b=1&c=3
This Frenchman, Calvin, did deny Jesus Christ by saying it was not Christ who would bruise satan on the head at the time of His crucifixion, being a false prophet, blasphemer and heretic. Christ did perform this at the time of His death, as the seed of the woman is God the Son. Is it not interesting, Catholics lie and state, Mary was the one who bruised satan on the head? Once again, you see Calvin taking idolatrous Catholicism (Augustine-ism) and changing it to his own blasphemous liking.
Calvin, through his commentaries, wrote his own heretical bible with his own evil, hateful, false christ. “John Calvin followed Augustine’s biblical justification for burning heretics. Augustine excused extreme measures through his interpretation of Jesus’ Great Banquet parable in Luke 14:16-24. When the master could not fill up his banquet in the parable, he commanded his servants in Luke 14:23 ‘to compel people to come so that my house will be filled.’ Augustine and Calvin believed burning heretics would ‘compel’ more people to enter their house of God. Interpreting ‘compulsion’ as a license to kill.” I have personally seen how Calvinists would love to kill me for not following their cult.
And Revelation, in chapter 19, we read of satan being cast into the lake of fire by an angel through the agency of Christ following the tribulation. And he will be rebased for a short period following the Millennial rule of Christ.
Because Calvin believed in satan being bound, some generations following Adam and Eve, true Calvinists believe satan is bound today and society is relevant to Christianity.
Yep.
But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. (2 Timothy 3:1-5)
We have heard enough of Narc pastors. But it’s important to know there are Narc church members too.
This modern church structure fosters Narcs.
I've visited churches that the first thing that came out of their mouth was tithes and offering that is a red flag.
I'm new to this church and it's not the pastor that is but one of the teachers she did all those thing you just mentioned I see it very clearly,total nightmare
I felt compelled to leave some churches in my city in Canada. Not all are run by characters of 2 Timothy 3 or in the Book of Jude.
Church can be done the way the Bible says (Acts 17). I feel welcomed in many coffee shops, for the most part, younger staff are open to being prayed with, encouraging them with relevant scripture and having open discussions about hard questions. My tithes turned to tips...
Yeah, great idea. The churches are corrupted. None, in my town go into the world and preach the gospel, or pray for anyone. They just keep preaching to each other and competing with each other. it's actually disgusts me.
Love this video. Please do more on narcissism in the church.
YES. It’s the wolf in sheep’s clothing. And a lot of people are sheep.
Codependent congregations.
Threatening approach by angry assistant pastor in a disturbing assaulting manner. I was very frightened for my safety Im disabled elderly. This was in fact an assault which has upset me deeply. This pastor refused to apologize saying "that never happened". months later I was able to meet with him and an elder and a friend he admitted nothing obfiscating lying lying and more lying. He finally made an indefinite apology. It is a crime in my state and federal law to assault a disabled elderly person. I was advised by a counselor to make a police complaint and to make a claim civilly. What a hassle.. I think I need to do this to set a boundary for my safety.
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They think they owe you so they say what they like. The narcs will never apologize for their mistakes but expect others to forgive them no matter what. When others face problems, he has the cheek to say it is because you dont forgive him. That is christianity.
Yes, I actually googled narcissism in the congregation and found your video. I have concerns about the church I go to. One of my friends was ex communicated because she left her husband who is a religious narcissist and ofcourse she couldn't take the abuse. I feel that was unfair. Last Sunday I was approached by a member of the congregation who saw the leftover Halloween decorations in my yard and she accused me of worshipping Satan but only after I told her that I was struggling with a mental health diagnosis which she diminished. She went on to imply I created my own problems by drawing evil to myself through the plastic skulls. She insisted I must clean them up or she would never bring children to my house and then said she was doing this because she loved me. I never told her how much I love children. She doesn't have access to children. Weird and scary. The former pastor that died I suspected was a narcissist. I feel scared. I haven't been going there very long so how did she know I love children. It's so weird and scary. If anyone has any thoughts I'd welcome them.
Hi, how can I send you my book? It is about how narcissism is spiritual . It’s titled “When Satan plays match maker, exploring the spiritual side of narcissism “
I'd like to read that
" These holy shepards " : Rules are for thee, but no for me. Running around telling people don't do this and that yet a lot of them have really colourful backstories. Eg: Ex drug addicts, Ex adult entertainers, even engaging in underground street fights.
Should I tell them what there doing Should I reveal them
Yes, consequences are a natural result of inappropriate behavior. Allowing inappropriate behavior to continue makes the witness complicit.
Watch Doctor Ramani first.
I was stalked by a narcissist Baptist minister for 5 years, he had several sheriff officers in his church and labeled me as a potential criminal. Then managed to attain the Sheriffs invasive device to watch me in my home with his people from his church operating the equipment. He had his people break into my vehicles at night and move things around so that I had no peace of mind. He sent church people to tell me that he owned me, and that if I did not work in his church that I was a floater and my life had no value or meaning. The Sheriff patrol cars were driving by me most every day and to me seemed to be a threat. The Pastor demanded that I go on medication and in his opinion I was mentally ill, so I went on the medication, then he wanted me off the medication. My Father died and the Pastor harassed me before and after his death. The Pastor tried to steal the inheritance money with the invasive equipment. I caught him in a crime, he went to trial and to prison. My reputation is ruined, my family is gone, and the Sheriff is still after me 20 years later. The Justice system cannot dismiss the Sheriff and the invasive equipment is still to this day on my private home. God has spared me for 25 years.
🎯
This is one of many reasons I converted to Catholicism.
Yeah cause that doesn’t have narcissists….
@@RawMotivationsNarcissists are in all religions.
The pastor of the church I attend always falls out with talented or gifted people. These people end up leaving. The attrition in our congregation is a “bleed” and current attendance is very low…very low. He has no disciples or assistant pastors and at the moment the praise leader just left. I heard that he gave the pastor feedback and it was not well received.
I've seen more evil, selfish, jealous, clicky, behaviour in churches, more than anywhere in the world! Mostly coming from leaders and their family who are also in positions in the same church. Truly sad Jesus is represented like this... it's destroying the church!
R u a catholic roman evangelical Christian church
Not catholic. I believe in God
Diotrephes
Read book "Jesus vs. Evangelicals" by Constantine Campbell. Jesus yes, church not only no but HECK no - ever again.
Thats why I go to Kingdom Hall where everyone is equal. Not church
They are there too. I grew up in that. Don't be mislead
@@terrimartinez9045 they can be everywhere. I meant there is no power ranks like a pastor, priest or pope. Everyone is equal. I grew up in it to. Jehovah is the way and only way for me. He showed me many times who he is. Thank you ;)
Yes my husband thinks because he knows the kingdom he is better than everyone and mistreats is the moment he walks in the door. But people at work get kingdom kindness cards and gifts.
The kingdom hall is the corporate gathering place of a cult,. That is leading many souls to a Christless eternity.
@@kenneth-wd7ld okidoki🫶🏾🙏🏾
There are more churches that have good intentions I would say that not not everybody in the church is a narcissist of them are genuinely good people trying to do good things. I don’t like how you speak on it like narcissism just flooded in the churches they’re not there are some of course just like everywhere else in the world, but churches do more help than anything bad.
A "self aware narcissist" sounds like an oxymoron. I've seen other RUclipsrs calling themselves as "self proclaimed narcissists" talking from their point of view as narcissists...... You don't strike me as that type of person.
I think what happened is while you were a child, you picked up and adopted the bad behavior patterns of the adults in your life, but before hitting the age of 40, you realized that was wrong, and made some changes...... Therefore I don't think you fit the description of a narcissist in the here and now.
I am still stalked by an old creeplady I met in church. I went no contact so I can’t tell what I wish upon her. It’s bad. It is the worse. 🪦