Thank you for at least realizing it. It’s sad to say that Most people honestly don’t and don’t wanna accept their behavior and never repent and ask the person for forgiveness due to their actions. The religious narc I dealt with never did..
It is ironic that the first commandment is “Thou shall have no other god before me” but a religious narcissist’s god actually is their ego and they will use and abuse religion in order to justify their covert or overt forms of chastisement.
Vanessa Green But doesn’t it seem that the Bible portrays God as a narcissist? Do it my way or I will punishh you for eternity? Also that character in the Bible that God toldto kill his son to prove his love to him...isn’t that cruel? God constantly needs to be praised because why? Is your gratitude not enough? I think man created God in his image and man is narcissistic, because there are so many stories that make God Out to be a scary monster. Rather than learning and growth. Who needs to have to be worshiped constantly? To fill his ego? It makes no sense to me. Christianity and all other religions are so full of judgment it’s a wonder why so many wars are created because of that, none if it makes sense.
The Ang Endeavor The Bible doesn’t portray God as a narcissist, but those who INTERPRET the Bible often are. In my experience, they often USE the Bible as their tool for narcissistic abuse. Case in point: How many churches have you entered have a statue of Jesus hanging on a cross right above their altar? Its as if they want you to always remember obedience or this will happen to you too. I believe the Bible is a good book, but there are many people who use that book for the wrong reasons. And praise is not for God’s sake, but for ours.
Had an "enlightening" experience with a certain religious affiliation. Attended their services twice and the following week, the wife of the minister showed up unannounced at my door for what she called literally "an accountability session." Normally, I am a person who is shocked into silence when people say crazy things...but not this time. I had the courage to respond "I am accountable first and foremost to God and then to myself. Not you or anyone, barring those I love and the laws of this nation." I quickly shut the door, calmly but firmly. Never heard a word from her or those "church people" again. Phew!
Katherine You could make a fortune selling t-shirts with that printed on there. I'd wear mine to every single friggin church I could find. Oh, the places I would wear it!
@@johnk4934 When someone tells a narc to stop interfering and controlling behaviour, the narc calling on God and accusing the other of intolerance and black and white thinking is the next resort. If 'intolerance' means telling someone to mind their own business, roll on 'intolerance'. It's called asserting appropriate boundaries. Get used to it. Also, John K, you display very sexist attitudes. The term 'ad hominem' means 'towards a PERSON' and is written in the masculine form of the Latin, because its root word Homo is a masculine word.meanin g 'a human'... Explaining Latin grammer is probably above your comfort zone..... If Melany Todd was making an ad hominem to you, the masculine case applies without any doubt. It still would, should a male be making an 'ad hominem' attack on a female. But you could alter the phrase to 'ad femina' if you want to be pedantic and ignore Latin usage. I guess that is up your street.
So much this! I ended up being scapegoated at my former church cause I called out glaring inconsistencies and mistreatment. I was ostracized as well lol Thankfully I don't care about fitting in like that and have an abundance of self-love!
Same here! I actually think that’s the core of my cycle of repeated narcissistic relationships and struggle with boundaries. To my family those in the religion could do no wrong. So setting boundaries was almost impossible.
Wow that’s frighten !! My ex wife and her oldest sister use religious to look Normal and grandiose over folks . My ex keep telling she need a kingdom guy while she say prayers then lie n deceive the next 15 mins literally..
@@francescawilder good for you! Yes you become the scapegoat, in an instead of the power tripping zealot religious narcissist taking accountability, they try to derail you or railroad you once you blow the whistle. Especially when they get called out for double standards or blatant mistreatment. I loved what you said.
I've been a Christian for 34 years. I truly understand the judgment that people feel because I have experienced this myself many times as a CHRISTIAN! This is not from God, but from judgmental, cold people who don't care about you and judge you and dismiss you without even getting to know you or your back story. I don't want anyone to treat anyone the way I have been treated. I always try to be kind. Speak the truth in love ❤ Ephesians 4:15
I’m out of Christianity and wish I knew more , as a Hispanic male of 50 being psychologically targeted by a narcissistic Pentecostal Hispanic mother and one ignorant father in house hold of Controllers .. when i began what was assumed soem calling of God it became a hellish torment and false ideologies that was never corrected en enforce by A narcissistic mother and her forceful views .. just till 2015 I had nasty even that almost landed me in jail and back to where I started from again cause her dumb stupid ass ..!! I’ve had enough and sadly been mentally abuse by these sick people .
I’m so thankful for my church that began to walk with me in my “marriage issues.” They eventually saw the abuse because they got involved. They supported me when I decided to get out. It’s a conservative church that believes divorce is a last resort. It was watching two pastors walk with us who began seeing things (even I was not seeing) and even physically & emotionally protected me in very subtle ways. Those small protections opened my eyes! When I realized my two pastors were more concerned about my than my spouse it was like turning on a lightbulb!! After 8 months of meeting with us (while we were separated) they finally refused to meet with him anymore and then I filed for divorce (the hardest day of my life). They have continued to come around me and help me. I know that is rare, but it has been a blessing. They loved him & offered grace, but they also called him on the carpet! My ex professed to be a Christian but when challenged and asked about spiritual things he would dodge it. So it’s not just the grandiose overbearing narcissists, but also the covert. I’m sorry so many people have been gaslighted by the church/legalism. I was in many churches where I tried to go for help & didn’t get it for 17 years. God brought me to this church and it was a huge part of my rescue.
That's great to hear! I wish my congregation's leaders had done that for me. Even so, God took care of me. They can keep the narc and I'll move on. But I have to tell you I was surprised when I found out he'd hurt another precious lady just before he met me. The first lie he told me, on the second day I met him, was that he was never interested in her and they had never dated. Turns out he'd purchased a wedding set and then for some reason, the engagement didn't happen or was called off. It was impossible to get a straight story on the details, but I don't care. It was really good for me to find out he'd lied to me right off the bat-- just made it that much easier to leave.
Faith is in your heart, not in organized religion. You do not have to go to a specific building to hear another human being tell you their "opinion' about God. Thank you so much Dr. Carter, this video was right on! Kudos!
I just wanted to share this little inside knowledge for some people who may not know, but Dr Carters dad was a pastor or a minister while he and his brother were growing up! So I think it's super great that he covers this topic because I'm sure there were times while growing up that he saw people acting in such ways. ( NOT at all saying his dad did because CLEARLY his parents raised a great person!)
My uncle was a televangelist, quite well known a few decades ago. I grew up in the religion that he founded. Boy, could I tell you some stories. It's no surprise to me that narcissists and other controlling, toxic people flock to religion. They can abuse others and call it "tough love".
They exploit other people's ignorance while perpetrating their evil against the innocent. Meanwhile ignorant people applaud the evil doer, all while the victim's suffer in silence.
I disagree. The church has a responsibility to maintain Biblical principles, or it becomes ineffective even for the lost. It's all about knowing God and approaching Him on His terms, not just about our personal lives and comfort here on this earth. There is a responsibility to purge wickedness to protect the purity of worship - how can believer be equally yoked with unbeliever - same principle. Granted not everyone in church is saved, and not saying throw them out. But when evil people come in and try to control the church, that is a bad thing. If humble, willing to meet God, that's another thing. Depends upon the outsider's intentions. It is entirely possible that a gay person could come into a church just to push their agenda. A church that accepted that would be putting God's word second to human desire.
This is so true.when my son was younger his cousin said,I'm not suppose to hang around you because you don't belong in my religion.Now at 43 she is overboard judgemental an very prune face.Her father is a pervert an brother in prison, sister is lose with men.So I don't get how she can turn her nose up to others.
because people started to politicize religion. Back in Paul's day, the disciples stayed away from politics. Paul wasn't trying to become a governor even though he had the popularity to become one
I can’t tell you how many Narcissistic personalities I’ve attracted in my life. When you really need the spiritual person they disappoint. They want to pray over you and think they are invincible, even going so far as saying Covid is God’s way of paying back all the people that are supposed to die, it’s baffling and shocking! The best thing is to have your own personal, private and real relationship with God. Love is truly kind. Thank you for your wisdom🙏
If I had a nickel for every time my narcissistic sibling told me “God knows my heart” (implying that none of the rest of our family was as pure hearted as this person)...sigh.
you realize you can use that phrase right back right? You can add in, "yes, he knows that I love him and I don't do anything to purposefully hurt him or others" and then follow up with, "God knows your heart as well..." and then walk away...
I’m going to add to this conversation. I’ve met preachers who REQUIRE their parishioners give dump loads of money to the church and the preacher lives in a six bedroom mansion by the sea, yet the church doesn’t do shit for people in need.
I will never forget when I first got married, we had to go to a family planning (fertility) class. So, the woman who did it said that birth control, fertility treatments (in vetro) , hormone shots, etc. were strictly prohibited by the church. She was very strict but yet years later I found out that she wanted another child and got fertility treatments. What? One word for the majority of these people - hypocrites.
People change, if you let them. You're still carrying that baggage, is she? Oh, wait, that's a Buddhist thing. And a Xhrist thing. Forgive me the spelling?
I was hoping that you would address how a narcissist uses religion to justify their control, rather than coming from the aspect of religion itself tending toward narcissistic abuse. Putting the onus on the religious aspect rather than on the person. It would have been helpful to see some examples of how a narcissist uses "religion" to take control and to learn some things to look for to protect one's self from that
Exactly my thoughts. This forum has become more about bashing Christians than narcicist who are Christians,because you can be both. I see quite a few who quote about God is Love and not right or wrong. Part True, Part wrong. God IS Love, yet his Love is not an excuse or pass to continue to sin. Yes, we all make mistakes and still Jesus died for our sins and demands that we all seek to do better purposely & not only make excuses that we repeatedly make mistakes as our out. As for narcissism and religion, many narcicist do actually love & serve God and still have the disorder & sadly use it as an excuse for many of their actions. There is no all or nothing at all. I know a few who can be really wonderful people who help others & take care of their families, but still at times (not all do all the time) use religion to justify certain things (ex. The husband being the head (the Bible does say that), but for a narcicist it can turn into their reason why certain decisions get to be only their way (saying the wife is challenging him) when he still should have the respect to discuss things with his wife since the whole family is affected. As the old saying goes " you can be happy or you can be right". Lol.
I'm not an expert, but I'd say read some of Jesus's descriptions of the Pharisees for a good start. If they hold very legalistic views then there's a chance they maybe using religion as an excuse or disguise.
My narc exhusband used religiosity to keep me under him I'm writing a book about the man of the cloth mask, because that's what a narcissistic man hides behind. I have many more examples of how they operate. One is to use scripture against the other person. Like if I wasn't doing everything to run the household, laen, school for 4 sons, clean, cook, homework, he would still tell me I wasn't a good help- meet for him. Also his angry outbursts, he would blame on me. When confronted later, ask me how quickly can I forgive. But he would never have remorse, just do it again the next day,up to 490 times.
We had a little pamphlet by a prominent Christian leader in the 1980's, and that's where he started this "how fast can you forgive" stuff. Except he kept at me, I was the only one forgiving all the stuff he did towards me, but still have to be pleasant and nice to him when he didn't deserve it.
My sibling (the narcissist) has done that. Use religion to justify her actions. Both to me (the scapegoat) and her significant other. It's despicable! I wish I could find a way to let her S.O. what he is dealing with! He is such a nice guy who apparently doesn't know what he is dealing with or perhaps knows by now and is trapped by her. I have cut all ties with her to save my sanity. So I would be definitely stepping over boundaries by informing him. But it does concern me. Anyway..lest I go off into another direction. I too was hoping the same of the video being about narcissists using religion rather than bashing religion. I'm new at identifying traits (thank you to all YT posts!) l I've learned THE most by videos. I'm very grateful! Be safe everyone!
I encountered a narcissist in my church yrs ago, who was 60+(& I in my 40's), a former pastor and a counselor...and fits a lot of what you described plus other red flags. My therapist told me narcissists intentionally seek positions of authority, particularly in church leadership and another told me he wanted to mold and shape me to his liking. Thank God, I saw the light and got away from that one; AND before it was TOO LATE and married the guy 😬
I was in a relationship with a narcissistic “Christian” for 3+ years. We met at church and were friends for 7 years before he initiated the relationship. He knew my life story and my weaknesses and preyed on them to get what he wanted. He led me into a sexual relationship, knowing that I was in love with him … not knowing then that he is a narcissist. He is a Biblical counselor at our church!!! And, of course, he managed to get out of going through counseling as part of his training. He told me to tell no one of our relationship and that we would not “label” it either … so he never called me his GF or even significant other. Two months ago, when I told him I wanted to be BF/GF to be able to tell my loved ones about our relationship, he IMMEDIATELY, THOROUGHLY and PERMANENTLY ended the relationship, on the spot … threw me out like TRASH. As I was leaving he said, “don’t do anything weird at the church.” I could go on and on … he revealed his true self and I told the church leadership what he did to me, and thanks to God, they will be suspending his counseling and calling him to account. Stay away from those overly charming and perfectly humble “Christians” … they are masters of deceit, deception and deceitfulness … LIES!
My narc mother found a narc pastor for counseling bc I begged her... Both attacked me ten minutes after meeting pastor Bass Turd Mike J. Sutherland @ Mill Creek Church on s St in Bakersfield CA
I'll never forget a certain woman I met once who tried to convert me to her religion. We only met once, but within minutes of our first meeting, she asked me what church I attended. When I told her I didn't go to church, she asked me why not. I then politely explained to her that I was a Deist. Under a poorly constructed veneer of false niceness, she asked me three times over a period of 45 minutes to an hour to go to church with her. I was polite but steadfast in my refusal, since I have no trouble maintaining my boundaries. I know what I believe, and I won't be easily swayed. The main reason why this woman stands out in my memory is that although I was a stranger to her, within minutes of meeting me she was attempting to breach my boundaries. Not only that, but she actually seemed offended by my refusal to step in line with her program! I recently made eye contact with her again from a distance in a public place. Although several years had passed since our first meeting, she seemed to remember me, because when she looked at me, she actually glared at me! In her eyes, I was still the bad guy so many years later. I'm no psychologist, but I strongly suspect she's a narcissist. She may or she may not be, but the woman clearly has some major issues.
The worst is when your covert narcissistic wife is fully absorbed into the Charismatic church and IHOP and then is able to use all this subjective content as manipulation tools against you. "God tells me what is really in your heart, you know." "I prayed about this, and God told me this is the right thing to do." I went through this for 15 years.
@WolfThorn Back in Nov 1995 when we had first moved into an apartment together, she convinced me that the apartment was haunted by a demon who hates women. And that this demon wanted to keep us from being together. We would fight like mad when at home, but we'd go drive off in the car and everything would be fine. She claimed to see things moving and convinced me that the apartment had an oppressive air about it because it was inhabited by something that hated us. We reasoned that if it was trying to divide us that we should just get married and that would bring an end to the torment. Got engaged in late January and married in April. Of course that changed nothing. We always had fights at weird times and places, which made me believe in her claims that demons inhabited certain places and that bad things happened when we went some places and not in other places. Looking back, I'm amazed at the lengths she went through to fabricate this elaborate manipulative act. From that point forward, she always used her "spiritual sensitivity" as evidence to give that she knew what was the right thing to do and what God wanted for us. And this was just the tip of the iceberg. Fifteen long and terrible years later, she finally lost her grip on me and left. And that began the horrifying procedure of gaining some control over my own life while also struggling to not be destroyed in the family court and have my daughter taken away. I could write a huge book about the craziness in my life over the decades. It's an unbelievable tale that I wish I had the capacity to get out there so everyone knows what kind of stuff can happen if you get together with one of these women.
And finally we have the only "Winning" answer. Denial and self justification simply overwhelms this type of persons thinking, and hence actions. Which leads to all of these wishful ideas (to try and help these people) that simply never work in the real world. Just like an addict, they change only "If" they finally decide to. Sadly most never do. Of course in the religious fantasy world that fewer and fewer buy into every day, reality needs no actual proof to back it up. Want to feel special, and dare we say superior... no problem. Just claim that you talked to yourself (prayed) about...whatever, and "Gawd" revealed his special brand of truth just to you. Think of Joseph Smith and his magic plates here if you question that enough people will actually ignore reason, logic, and common sense, and simply buy into this horse shit. Most humans are so incredibly naïve and gullible that it is simply astonishing that we ever become the most destructive, er, I mean dominate species on earth. And now you can "Never" be wrong about anything, ever, as you have the Sky fairies blessing on virtually everything. Talk about having "Church lady" syndrome. It must feel awful empowering to have that much imagined power. Is it any wonder that they will never even consider questioning any of their beliefs or choices...? Proof? Ha, I have something better, I have wishful and wilful ignorance on my side. For brevity sake lets just call it my faith. Again Juno Cat for the win. The only viable choice is to completely, as in 100%.... DISSASSOCIATE with/from them. Permanently, as in, for good. Think of them as cancer.
Not when you're her caregiver. But she's almost 90. She has 3 sons. She's got 2 who don't share her mentality. But one,who's very active in their church and his wife and kids think like her. Well 2 out of three ain't bad.
Trust is necessary as the basis for all relationships regardless of where they originate. A narc is never trustworthy. 1 Corinthians 15:33- “Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits.”
I've got a MIL straight from hell. She's totally messed up her son. But he's in therapy now. Hardest thing is him coming to terms she'll never love him
Rainbow Magick I’m glad he recognized. The father of my child is exactly like his mother and he terrorizes my daughter and I . We are counting down the days until she is 18.
@@shannon_m_s my heart goes out to you. My mother is a flying monkey for two different narcissist in my family. It's so hard when you can't just walk away from the narcissist.
Organizations that purport to assist the vulnerable are hotbeds of malignant narcissism. They're fruitful places for narcs to hunt for targets to abuse.
My ex-husband would actually follow me around our home with his Bible, cherry picking verses and pointing out what an ungodly woman I was. He would even be so arrogant to say that God will tell me He never knew me or tell me that he and Jesus were waiting on me. He even hit me in my head once and said, "now you can go tell everyone I beat you over the head with a Bible". This man has malignant narcissism and I believe true psychopathy. Anyone who uses God's word to manipulate others is beyond narcissistic, it's pure evil!
Reminds me of my religious narcissist mother who said I wasn't saved but didn't ask if I was a Christian. She acted like she is God and can see who's saved and who isn't. She felt that a church member who used to be my friend but no longer isnt had two kids out of wedlock while being a member of her church was more saved than I was according to her. I'm glad I'm no longer a member of her church. She is not all seeing and all knowing. She is not God.
My girlfriend was being physically beaten, gaslighted, stole from by an alcoholic husband (now dead). She got wave after wave of church people telling her how horrible she was for trying to get a divorce. He was arrested and the church people really didn't care. She was THE sinner. This wasn't just a few people in her church either. There were dozens and they were comming to her house whenever they wanted to, not when she was available. Yet, she was the one working. Her parents were also in on it. I know not all church people are like that but damn, I have so many of my own truly disturbing experiences with people who live by scripts with a subtext of hell. When I factor in her decades of abuse not only by her parents but the community I am astounded and horrified. I came from Southern California where the opulence in churches was so far from anything Jesus taught. I saw People who were obsessed with their appearance. I saw so much unconsciousness in so many people and so much easily identifiable, overt abuse that others were just "switched off". I had a customer for several years who was Christian. I was intrigued because she actually had feelings that would change. Sometimes she was having a good day, sometimes she seemed depressed. She was alive. And I trusted her and she didn't care if I was Christian or not. She was a rare jem in my experience.
I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience with Christians. However not all ppl they say they are a christian is truly a christian. Not everyone that goes to church is a christian. But also not every one that is a christian are on the same growth level. A new christian is not going to act the same as a 30 yr christian. Also you are as christlike as you want to be. Some Christians are more christlike than others. Basically you are as close to God as you want. Sadly some Christians don't want to be that close. So those are probably the kind of ppl you've run into
Cleveland, I hear you. I never met anyone with your compassion when I was young. When I complained to my boyfriend how abusive my parents were, he told me he thought I was over reacting. Sadly, I married him anyway. 40 years later, after all this research on narcissism, I’m getting out. I notice my spouse always chooses very faithful loving Christians as best friends... that way? What? They always assume the best? and never question his lies? A sex addict who gets to pretend he’s the best because all his friends are the best. He picked me because of my faith and forgiveness, but was never faithful. I guess this is the opposite of what you meant, but I’ve certainly seen what you have described. It’s sad.
I needed this! This was very healing for me - and you just described about half the members of my family. I feel so isolated, like I can't be myself with them. So thank you, thank you for explaining that LOVE should be the prime focus we all have. :)
What a God send. 🙏 He is very calming. I just posted this because I have went through this myself. It's very difficult but im so relieved that a doctor in psychology is saying the same things that I've been saying to a bunch of people of faith for 5 full years. People from a faith that I've never been a member of scolding and shunning me. One strange trip it's been for sure. Thank you so much for opening up this discussion. it's much needed. Not to make them wrong but to ignite love, communication, and understanding regarding this subject. ❤
I'm a preacher's kid that is fully grown with the family of my own, and trust me I know all about having narcissistic religious parents. My life has always been scripted up until I hit my mid-thirties and realize how controlled I was. I had to go no contact for almost a year. They respect me now when we talk. I will no longer be made to feel like God would never hear my prayer because I was so horrible of a person because I talked to "secular people" and I will no longer be controlled!
I’m truly jealous of you. I hope to get there one day. It’s so painfully obvious how little my dad respects me when we talk. I know I have to detach and not take it seriously, but it’s hard. I wanna be heard but he doesn’t care. He tells me God will punish me for marrying a no Christian woman. I had an ex pass away (after the fact) and it killed me. Just yesterday my dad said that was an example of God punishing me for a non Christian relationship. He said the same thing would happen to my soon to be fiancé. Imagine your dad telling you that… Anyways. Just venting. I hope to figure it out like you have.
I'm happy for you. My fundamentalist religious mother has this overly parental view over me like she owns me and I must submit all the time just because she brought me in this life and I owe her, and I'm in my thirties. Always lording over me, telling me all the time "you don't live for yourself, you don't die for yourself" and it drives me insane. I'm really at the point of eventually shunning, cuz it's too much.
Remember how Jesus was having a dinner in a rich person's home and in walks a hooker that washed His feet with her tears and hair. Remember the homeowner & his friends reactions? They were shocked at how He interacted with her ("How can He let her touch Him knowing what she is"). He gave them a verbal beatdown for being so judgmental. (Luke 7 : 36 - 7 : 44)
@@susan5560 established churches are shrinking. The 'new' ones start up but will implode as well. People will realize it's a huge time & money / talent suck & walk away.
I cannot express enough gratitude to you Dr. Carter. I didn't know what I was dealing with for so much of my life. I feel like such a huge burden has been lifted. You just don't know how helpful your videos have been to me. Thank you so much!
After recognizing that the responses you have gotten are showing the degree of emotional pain inflicted by those preportedly teaching love, I am one of your greatest fans! Your calm demeanor and balanced perspective is so helpful🤗 I would have endured alot less struggles if I had stumbled onto your recommendations years ago. I am sure others would agree. Religious narcissists can intimidate well meaning potential followers to the point of atheism. Thank you for your willingness to help!
One of the best ways to follow Jesus is to be humble and to ask Him to show you how to walk in His wisdom. Wisdom isn't forceful and controlling, people that don't walk in wisdom, they have no "self control." To walk in wisdom is to know right from wrong. We need to look at others through the eyes of God. God looks at others with compassion and Love.
Julie Jen. Morality is knowing right from wrong and practicing accordingly. Wisdom is the proper application of knowledge. I ain't no bible thumper but I know that
I've been around and in religious life for a long time and what I notice more often than not, and what you note, is a complete lack of curiosity on the part of the numerous narcissists hiding in religious circles. God is the ultimate tool when you're attempting to control the universe. Thanks for confirming my observations. I hear truth in your words over and over again.
I am musical, was raised in church. In my adult life I exhausted myself working in ministries where narcissists somehow found their ways into leadership and from behind the scenes I witnessed it all. My own father was an ordained minister who got by with his narcissism and was enabled in catastrophic behavior that ripped our family with total protection. I am a Christian. There are wonderful ministries but the balance for me is worshipping Christ outside the church. Thank you for this article
I love the Episcopal Church because they allow me to be free in mind, body, and spirit. I knew this was the right church for me when I was taking an Introduction to the Episcopal Church. We had discussed the three legged stool concept that all Episcopalians know all too well. God and religiosity is always approached with three different but equally important aspects, what does the Bible say?, what does Tradition say?, and thirdly, the one I love most, what does reason say? On the last meeting I thought I’m going to test this. I told the group I struggle with the Trinity and I’ve never been able to wrap my head around it without having to admit it’s just a mystery. You know what, several others struggled with this too and nobody admonished anyone because of it. I felt a freedom in a religious setting I hadn’t ever experienced before. For me, this was a true blessing.
I watch these videos because it helps me understand so much from growing up with that narcissistic mother... hell woulda been more fun. She’s off her rocker and I’m healing from it. Thanks, Doc 🤗 I was made to feel that everything was my fault all the way into adulthood
I recently was seeing a man who was very religious. I am a believer but in a more of a spiritual way than a religious way. Because I didn't see things his way, he looked down on me. At first, I thought it was pretty cool that he was religious until I saw how it controlled him. He waits on signs from God for everything. If things go wrong it's the devil. I feel that we are responsible for our actions. Anyway, it's over, and may I never be hoovered again. Thanks again for the help and information!
Omg.. I had no idea that you wrote the book "Pleasing you is Killing Me". I remember reading that book and that being my 1st awakening call. For the 1st time I got answers to why my idea of being a "perfect wife" was killing me in every way. Your book changed the way I worked in my relationship and surprisingly it wasn't hard to make those changes. Also, I married into a religious narcissistic cult. It began with having my husband not sleeping with me until my virginity was validated by my evil MIL while being "possessed by god. " Yeah, according to that God, I was pure and a vigin. My educated husband believed that despite having sex with me twice a few days before. This this not take place in some remote village in a third world country but right here in CA. I could and should write a book about all the abuse I endured in the name of religion. Thanks to you and others on RUclips that I woke up to "narcissism."
OMG I have never heard of someone having their virginity verified! That's ludicrous. (I am a Christian and and have dated non-Christians bc I was in love.) There is not way to prove virginity scientifically anyway so that seems odd that doctors would comply.
At least right now, I am wont to say that this video is the most important reach-out in cyberspace. 'Hyperbolic,' one might say. Well, maybe. Perhaps some rare video featuring the unadorned words of the very subject/object of Christianity, to wit, its founder Jesus Christ--and in such a style as to both get attention and to enter into the human heart--is more important. Be that as it may, good Sir Psychologist, you come close enough with the words of Paul. Whether it was the (unlikely!) apostle's intention or not: in 1 Corinthians 13 we get a description of the Son of Man (but also Son of God) Himself. For this is how Jesus interacted at all times and in all places with hated tax collectors, whores, not just judgmental but murderously condemning religious leaders, with pagan (hostile Roman) occupiers of the Jewish state, with members of a supposedly inferior culture (Samaritans), sincere and unsincere rich people, a weak but redeemable besr friend who betrayed, et al., etc. To the thoroughgoing and lucid mind the historical figure, Jesus of Nazareth, can thus (with intellectual honesty) only be regarded as this world's biggest loser or fool or scammer...OR: as the most radical mover and shaker of the human mind and heart so far, on this planet anyway. But I want to propose something more than this summary of an apologetics for Jesus. I believe He, as Son of Man like you and i, at least smiles when we try and have His back for a change. I.e., it's a standsrd part of any mutual friendship. I said that on purpose. Why? Bc a thought like that is more or less blasphemy under most of the 800+ theologies of Christendom. Since the Roman Emperor Cinstantine anyway. We'll remember how he--by around 400 c.e.--, in a lopsided balance of power with the Roman sect of not one but many different Christianities negotiated an agreement. The Roman Christian authorities had to accept the version of the Christian God, or godhead, he (Constantine) closely supervised into existence. I (with more others than one might think) find this new and highly reductionist version of "Our Father who art in heaven," Jesus the "only begotten'" of this father, and the Holy Spirit to raise far many more questions than it answers. So, fast forward to the 1500s. Yet another Catholic monk, beyond Luther and Calvin that is, firsr thought long and hard about Constantine's realignment of the Christian godhead so that it roughly corresponded with the 3 main Roman-Pagan, abstract, mythical deities. Our Spanish monk's French-icized name was Jean Servet. Jusr recently the Swiss federal government and the Geneva cantonal government bent to pressure brought to bear by Spanish and other highly determined contemporary sympathizers of the long dead monk Servitus. For Jean Servet was ordered burnt at the stake by Reformed theologian Jean Calvin. The heinous crime? Servet's repeated refusal to retract on the more relatable, the more logical, the more warmhearted, yes: dare we say: the more biblical, the more originary, the more empathizing, the more immanent human ideation of the Christian God. Better: of the Christian godhead. This restored the view of a son AND a separate very real father (= real "aliens" on some higher planet if you will) that had actually been through ALL(+) you, I, all my parents and your parents, all our grandchildren etc etc have gone through or will have to go through from the moment of birth until our (certain) death some time in the future. Why, then, is this video of yours of such urgent importance? Bc you have a thoroughly class-act southern accent that you wear discreetly (the "better part of valor"!) and yet shamelessly (in the good sense 😉). A littlr humor is called for at this juncture; "lest we perish of the truth." (Credit Mr Nietzsche, oh my!) In all its awful seriousness: you put your finger on, and then into perhaps the #1 source of events that traumatize--that debilitate American homo sapiens. That is, humans like I, you, yo mama, my dad, my son, your daughter, my bestie, your bestie girlfriend-maybe-spouse of 40+ years. (Am best-guessing; with no doubt of your pardon in advance..as if "predestined.") What might that source be? Let me go anecdotal instead of ideological-professorial-ideational academi
Thank you DrC, this helps to clarify a lot. I went through a very hard time with Christian friends who are more judgmental about getting me to "Forgive Unconditionally" my unapologetic, unrepentant, never sorry repeat abusers because if I don't do this I fall short as a Christian. Actually, in Luke 17 “If your brother or sister[a] sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them.” Repentance is important before forgiveness is offered, and this blessing of "sinning, repentance and forgiveness" leads to divine redemption. With narcissists, there is no remorse, no repentance, and some of us never received even an apology throughout the relationship for serious wrongs done to us. This pattern is repeated over and over again in the Bible, the Prodigal Son, the criminal to the right of Jesus on the cross who repented and was forgiven, but Jesus did not offer forgiveness to the other, etc. So Christians are not meant to accept abuse, and should distance themselves from unrepentant abusers. However, there are Christian friends who were more adamant about me offering unconditional forgiveness than any concern about my well-being and what was happening to me. That peer pressure was one of the reasons I stayed in a terrible relationship for so long. I would like to share this site with all Christian and Non-Christian victims of abuse out there. It clarifies in a biblical way, and I was surprised (and relieved that I wasn't the only one) that so many Christian women were rejected by their church friends for leaving instead of forgiving their abusers. At times I do struggle with direct interpretations of the Bible because I have gay friends who are absolutely wonderful souls. Like DrC said, focus on the Love. Hugs to all struggling victims. www.confusiontoclaritynow.com/women-of-faith
Oh, the stories I could tell you! So many Christians fail to understand what Adam's fall was about...wishing to be in control, becoming self absorbed, blame shifting, having no regard for the other, creating a False Self over there in the bushes....just for starters. Dr. C
I woke up to my narcissistic brother in law sitting in a chair at the foot of my bed. I was in a hotel room in Las Vegas and hung over from seeing the Chippendales the night before. My religious brother in law was not invited to my birthday party, but because he was married to my twin sister and he felt like a big shot, he flew in from DC to bust up our good time. As I woke up, he began to tell me I was going to Hell if I did not change my ways. I sat up in my bed and tried to imagine a reason why this prick would have the nerves to confront me like this. It only took me a couple of minutes to tell him off. He really did speak with authority and power, but he’s not Jesus and I knew it.
Thank you for making us think. The latest Religious joke goes: "The Government wants to ban the wearing of VEILS in the work place. The Bee-keepers of America are very upset about this......." Thanks for your common sense. If that gag didn't work, it was the way I told it.
I am so grateful for the expert insights that Les Carter has made available in his video! They have given me the freedom to respond to the narcissists in my life in a way that doesn't play into their games, yet respects them as other human beings who are on a very challenging journey all their own. Moreover, they have helped me to be more 'conscientious about' and 'protective of' my own dignity while still trying to be authentically loving (at least I hope). If you happen to be a person of faith in a supreme power of any sort, perhaps it is good to pray sincerely for all of those who have gotten caught up in the claws of a narcissist (or narcissists) and to pray for the healing of those narcissists in our life, who would definitely require some divine intervention. Thank you Les!!
The sadder truth is there is the reality facet to religion wherein I am frequently attacked for not being a Christian, for following my native cultural spirituality. I agree with Surviving Narcissism in that someone's beliefs become VIP member like thinking, like sheeple u better get in line and when u don't it means that I don't have the same capacities as a Christian (for ex,) to do what's humanly decent, telling the truth (the Bible truth usually,) etc. So ty Simon, u reminded me with your attempt to make it appear as tho anyone in your club is good and me not so good. You prove the point for us all. Condundrum indeed for Simon, who forgets it is possible that I (and others) can and DO love others without loving your God because I have a different SPIRITUALITY and belief system. This is where a Christian person usually tells me "I will pray for you," "God loves you anyway and so do I." And a plethora of darts and Barb's, parting shots that imply that because I don't sheeple and bend to your belief system, I will he singled out and ridiculed and worse.
"Give me those keys, St. Peter, She said with a saintly smile, "You must be tired after 2000 years, I'll stand guard for a while. I've been a good girl for seventy years, You won't have a problem with me I'll keep the riffraff from coming in, No sinner'll get past me. I can tell by looking, you know -- Just look at that one there; You can tell he ain't no good By looking at his hair! And look at that old woman, She's as hefty as a sow, Been a glutton all her life, You can tell it now. See that painted floozy there, Isn't she a sight? You can bet your bottom dollar That one partied every night! Just look at that barbarian, All covered with tattoos. I won't be letting that one by, Just watch me, I'll refuse!" Mrs Perkins looked in prim disgust At everyone in line. Most of them were elderly, But some were in their prime. All of them were nervous; All of them were stressed; Mrs Perkins was so perfect That she couldn't be impressed. Peter saw them shake in fright As they waited in a row For Mrs. Perkins' verdict -- Would she tell them where to go? "Wait a minute, Mrs. Perkins, Give me back those keys! You should not guard Heaven's gate, The Lord would not be pleased. Besides, you've got some work to do Before I let you in; You've caused a lot of trouble You have some hearts to mend. While it's true your life was saintly In almost every way, You've been very naughty, ma'am, You've sinned 'most every day! You've separated longtime friends By spreading tales about. You've spoiled reputations By letting secrets out. You've damaged church attendance In ways you'll never know! The atmosphere's so hostile now That no one wants to go. You've gossiped like a magpie You oughta be ashamed! There are people hurting And you're the one to blame. You've done more of the devil's work Than you will ever know! If it weren't for Jesus, I would tell you where to go! You better get back down to earth And learn to be a friend. You've gotta change your ways a lot Before I let you In!" Mrs. Perkins was in horror! Mrs. Perkins was in shock! She could not believe She hadn't walked the perfect walk! And she began recalling; And she became afraid. It would take a lifetime To undo the mess she'd made. Mrs Perkins woke up so relieved And went to make amends, With everyone she ever knew, Acquaintances and friends. From that day forward she was good in every way, I suspect she's up in Heaven Walking golden streets today.
Also....you will never hear a Narcissistic person say, "I AM SORRY." If they do, it's not sincere, but manipulative. I wish I had known about this malady years ago and not so late in life. I was really confused about some family and friends that came along, only to discard you in the end, or distance themselves. Now, I check out their character, fruits, 10 times more!
I want to thank you for the videos you make. I come from a home that is run by religiously narcissistic individuals. I could never understand or put my finger on why the abusiveness didn’t stop even after my parents divorced, after alienation of parents and brothers and sisters, and even when I left my parents home. This single video has finally put those pieces together and other videos you make have continued to help me cope and understand much of myself and of the dynamics I experience with certain family members. I can’t express in words how grateful I am that you share this with all of us here. For many of us it is a priceless gift. Please continue making videos like this! Thank you! You are making a world of difference!
Married to a religious narcissist. He loves to say if you love me obey my commands or I have the final say in all manners. Where's that in the bible? And When I can't live up to the ever moving bar he sets I'm rebellious. He obsesses over a handful of scriptures that he has twisted...I've finally woken up and working in getting out. Submission does not equal doormat!
This video touches me personally. I was raised Jewish and when I told my dad that I'm an atheist and will date whoever I want and not just Jews, he told me that a part of him will always feel like he has failed as a father. That really hurt and I'm working with a therapist overr the fact that he is a covert religious narcisist.
Your dad will accept it eventually. I had a menorah and a tree. So I became atheist to respect others beliefs. Now we have a huge family with all sorts of custom not just Jewish!
You are such a kindly man, I could listen to you all day. Thank you, I am sharing your video on my FB. And I will purchase both of those books, looking forward to reading them very much.
Churches like you described, They're quite rare, extremely rare..churches that welcoming (not fake love bombing) are not common...the church in America is largely a joke....let's face reality here
When a 'pastor' tells you 'God told me this about you'...totally decimated me and I just lost hope. Yes, became His spokesperson. I had NO idea what narcissism is. Jesus remained faithful to me. No church for me...some of the worst people I know are in churchs. Very sad. I wasn't the only one this happened to. Do not DARE to ? them. Brilliant video....thank you....it sounds as if you were in the same church 🙃
The more I learn the more I'm convinced I'm a recovering narcissist. Back when I was trying to save my family from being ripped apart I tried a couple of churches. The one got too personal, tried to get me to confess my sins, of course narcs have none. Its everybody else's fault. I did get the spiritual part and over the years developed a healthy relationship with God and the universe. 25 years later we're all still together. And pretty happy, respectful, and hopeful. Like any normal family we have our ups and downs but we work on them together. Love conquers all. If you want to help someone bring up a story about how you dealt with a similar situation. And the results. Suggestions are seed planted in the soul.
This is so true and a member in my family fits this to a tea. Actually there are two narcissists in my family but one uses her religion to judge and be in superiority. Luckily I figured it out and now and in no contact with her. Thank you for sharing. It's so appreciated.
I love this man and I just discovered him and his channel today. I have never seen anyone even mention this topic of religious narcissism but its a phrase I've been using in my life for the last 5 years or so. Good job and keep it up. I am now a subscriber.
I have a new reality from studying the scriptures deeply for almost 3 years now. This has changed my perspective deeply, the cultural norms people want to participate in, is in the long run between them and their creator. We are all messy. I believe the individual you label used "religious narcissist" would be narcissist in any rhealm anyway.. The concept of love the sinner but hate the sin needs to be brought up, and number is one is look in the mirror and remove your own beam.
Love that " I believe the individual you label used "religious narcissist" would be narcissist in any rhealm anyway". So true. Can't throw out Christianity just bc of the people who "use" it for their twisted benefit.
I find it hardest to be around narcs who make themselves a false God and reject and show no respect for your beliefs. I think it comes from a deeper guilt and shame about mistakes,fears, insecurities, they can't deal with in them and they project it onto you or try to control you.its maybe just their anger about themselves. I have a friend who is jealous and hates it when I tell of a godly blessing and I say I thank God.
....My husband-you describe him so well, Dr. Carter...”to a T.” Sure wish he & I could have some office sessions with you. Older he gets, the worse he gets. He lives & behaves by double standards. Most days I feel like the life is being sucked out of me. Watching your vids, sometimes multiple times, is truly helping me survive. Thank you!!May God bless you and your family!!!
Tou still have the free will to leave. Too many people atay out of fear or financial stability. No one should put up with abuse unless they are held captive. Best of luck.
Susan I appreciate your words of concern @Susan There are complicated circumstances involved here. Can’t explain in too many details here for obvious reasons. I really despise the masks that he wears. Sure, it’s off with me now, but many many other people hold him in very high regard. He behaves so respectable in a highly respectable job. Plus, at church he wears a mask there, too. They have no clue of his real self. Dr. Carter is so right; my husband’s childhood trauma as a little boy has simmered, festered, and morphed into something unimaginable. Peace to you, Susan 🙏😞🕊
Hi Dr Les I saw a number of videos on this topic and found yours to be the most insightful. This is mostly because the others addressed the stage narcissist, the one in full view of others, while you addressed the religious person walking in our midst. Your insights showed me exactly what I was suspecting and I thank you for it! Good work.
I've never known a more genuine person in my life. You are so incredible! I only wish I could meet someone like you but I'm afraid nobody could even come close. Thanks for being you.....
I agree 100%. A narcissist is a narcissist is a narcissist even if it says “I am Christian “! Sometimes it’s the so called Christian who is the hardest to reach. God will certainly humble us and prune us through trials and tribulations and as a follower of Christ I respect the personal relationship that a person can have with Jesus. We all have our own lessons to learn and no one can tell you about your destiny in life. If anyone says “you are not saved” or “you are not a Christian “ that is a red flag that you are dealing with a person who does not understand the first commandment of Love but only repeats scripture. Reading scripture through the lens of legalism is not God.
Uhggg....I grew up with religion...and I feel like I was narcissistic...and still have tendencies....but I'm learning...I'm no longer a christian....a few months ago I wondered if there is a connection between narcissism and religion...as I studied and listened...I was blown away....I really used to think of myself as being superior to others who thought or believed differently than myself. It's taking me most of my adult life to realize the poison of religion....and narcissism. As I heal....the easier it is to recognize the many forms and or narcissistic masks that people wear....Thanks again Les...
Amen!! “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. [35] By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” (John 13:34-35)
There is an excellent book, “Fool Proofing Your Life” by Jan Silvous. It’s a great book, especially for Christians who believe in The Word of God. Although Jan doesn’t call it narcissism, she does call t what God calls it, the biblical “Fool”. I’ll be praying for all my brothers and sisters who may be suffering under this terrible issue. God will never leave you nor forsake you. God bless.
MendingMinistry Thank you!! I was watching some of her stuff but it got a bit too heavy. It has to fully line up with Scripture for me to keep listening. She’s amazing, and speaks LOADS of truth every parent should hear, esp about the school system!! Thank you again for responding. I’m going to read Jan Sylvous book again because I need it again. Lol. God bless you!
Leagalism is exactly what it is. I used to attend church but have not since shortly before my divorce. My 14 year old son loves to go to church but hates his mother ( the narc). I told him you can't go to church & harbor hatred & unforgiveness toward your mother when forgiveness on the cross is the foundation of the religion you love. That only makes you a hypocrite, which God hates most of all. How about we all approach others with an attitude of forgiveness first. Whether you agree with someone or their ideology or their lifestyle remember they were good enough for your savior to die for they are good enough for you to forgive. Remember forgiveness isn't for them it's for you so you don't have to live with a bitter hate filled heart & soul. Imagine how hateful & bitter God would be if he hadn't forgiven mankind & how much better the world would be if narcs would all be forgiving. Then they wouldn't constantly try to project their wretched selfs onto others
@Rinske Raphael Hmmmm..... It seems you're calling me a religious narcissist if I understand your comment correctly. If that's the case I respectively disagree but I am open to trying to understand why you think that.
Thanks for this. You made me realize that my father was one of these religious narcissists (and meaner than hell to boot). And you also made me realize that I married a narcissist. Because of that I haven't been right about anything in 40 years. I was out of the nest and single for around 12 years before I married. In retrospect those 12 years are basically my whole life. Since I got married I haven't been able to make any decisions about anything. Any decision I make is automatically disregarded and overruled. In fact I recently realized that my wife is my father, in my mind. I have always been the child. If only I had known.
Thank you for this video! It was very helpful. I am recovering from Jehovahs Witnesses indoctrination for more than 35 years. I was “in the truth” until I began to use critical thinking skills. The organization discourages “independent thinking” to keep you indoctrinated. Looking forward to reading your book.
sofia morgan. Oh Yeah! Watchtower just adores us, Critical Thinking Ex-JWs!( Says Me, Sarcastically). But, You are Correct. Outside Researching, Questioning and Outright Disagreeing with All Watchtower Teachings and Expectations will get One; Reproved and Chastized and In Most Cases, Disfellowshipped and Shunned. What Evidence Of Love and Acceptance and Christ-Like Behaviour? None Existent.
sofia morgan. Are You aware of JT and Lady Cee's videos on You Tube? He is a Former Elder/Bethelite that addresses a lot of the issues of Watchtower's Indoctrination and does so by means of Critical Thinking. He is also very Pleasant to listen to and Informed. Check him out, If You haven't already.
Some of the females that are religious fanatics talk about God like He's there big boyfriend in the sky. And they encourage others to "seek a more intimate relationship with God" I've heard those exact words used some of those Church TV shows.
Christians should speak with the authority of Christ, which is humble and gentle and loving. They should also speak in the spirit of truth, which comes out of a loving relationship with Christ, remembering that Jesus is the truth, and who is an endless fountain of wisdom. In other words, the Christian should point others to the fountain of wisdom rather than make others submit to them. Speaking of 'authority' and 'truth' needs to come from a relationship with Christ. It comes through in action and tone (spirit).
I used to think that way too, until I realized that Jesus and God are very different. With that thinking, I had to give up the Old Testament which is filled with many horrors such as brutal slayings, mysogyny, jealousy, abuse and bigotry... all in the name of "God". I can relate to focusing on all the nice and loving parts of Christianity, but could no longer ignore the horrors. It was a 10 year process, but I'm finally free from indoctrination.
@Nickhead87 Which was as huge factor in my deconversion. If any sane person could not torture anyone (even a mass murderer) for longer than a minute, I could no longer support a diety that claimed to do just that. By the way, if there was a God, life could have been set up in any other way so as to avoid torture. I just can't revere a being who is okay creating people who will choose another god based on their location, which will then end in everlasting torture. There aren't any sane parents who would inflict such unfair pain on their children.
Nickhead87 God sounds like a crazy person. What good is it to have free will when God threatens people. He sounds like a scary person, keep my commandments or I will make you suffer for eternity and blame you for it. God sounds like a narcissist
I was married to a religious narcissist. It was particularly insidious because her behavior was so different in that community that was in our home. It was striking. But that’s where she got a lot of her supply, that and family. She could never be shown as someone who struggled, or needed help. It was all part of her inability to show any vulnerability. And because our family was very knit into our religious community, he played a huge role at our final separation and divorce. It was perfectionist narcissism.
Those kinda religious narcs will say they arent superior cuz they lie to self and others that they are humble and that they are directing things in love and "u" have the problem that u cant receive love...i love God and pray and read my bible but am very selective of what religious person i associate with..if theyre pushy in a nice..." Get outta here!".. And im gone too ..been down that crazy road too many time ..took the detour now.and happier
My ex hid behind her church. She served on the board that decided on making charitable donations to worthy recipients. She literally held people's lives in her hands. Undoubtedly she loved that power she had over people's lives. It gives me chills to think about it.
As a Pagan I can't tell you how many times when someone finds out that I'm Pagan on youtube channel they will ask me about what I believe. I'll start telling them about my beliefs. Then they would start challenging my beliefs. I would let them know they can believe what that want that's fine. The more I would try to answer their questions the more they would challenge me. Then they would start telling me how wrong I am. I would then tell them, if you simply wanted to know what I believe that's one thing. If you're trying to convert me you can stop now. They would then claim that they're not trying to convert me that they know they can't do that. They simply want to understand what I believe. I then tell them that I don't want to carry on this conversation anymore because I don't feel like having someone ask me questions only to condemn my answers. Sometimes they simply would claim that's not what they're doing and I'm being too sensitive. I usually end with a Blessed Be, Have a nice day. Most of the time I choose not to challenge their beliefs I just end the conversation. Unless they get real mean. I who read the bible old testament 3 times and new testament 4 times from cover to cover start quoting scripture I'm sure they don't like. It often shuts them up. When they're face to face and they get persistent and I can't get them to stop, I simply look at them and inform them, I once was a Christian I choose not to be one, I don't want to hear about how great they are when my Christian Father used the bible as an excuse to molest me. At that point I walk away. Where that part is True, there's more reasons than that for my change in belief. I just don't feel I need to explain myself. Most Christians are decent people and aren't like that. The ones that are I feel would be the same way no matter what they believed. They often turn people away from Christianity not to it. I'm spiritual but not religious, to be honest the reason I chose that (long story short) is because to me to pick a religion puts me in a box and keeps me from spiritual growth and discovering my inner truth. Religion is fine for other people at one time it was fine for me too. I don't feel that I should have to explain myself, or make excuses for my choices. I've gotten to the point in my internal growth that I don't..
My husband has had no interest in Christianity throughout our entire relationship. He made fun of me for my “crutch” and have ridiculed me for years saying I am trying to brainwash my kids. After 23 years of emotional and verbal abuse I have stepped away from the marriage. Now he is quoting scripture at me...God hates divorce and you need to come back because Jesus said not to break your vows. I stayed so long with him because of my belief and wanting to try so hard to work it out. When I started to recognize that he was a narcissist, I realized there wasn’t hope for change. I still love him. But I will not be a doormat. He is going to church and insists he has changed. But is clearing seeing me as a belonging that he needs back. He has played the victim and even our church has tried to get me to go back to him.
There is something off about your ex- husband's approach. If he was sincere about reconciliation he would not focus on what he perceives as you "breaking your vows" or attempt to get a group of outsiders to take his side in an effort to shame or pressure you to conform to his personal agenda. It sickens me to say he is using your faith as a weapon against you to try to force you to allow him access to continue the abusive pattern that worked so well for him all these years. You were like a warm comfortable blanket and he misses the lord and master role he had all those years. In his twisted plot to get you back under his thumb he decides to play "go to church." I'm glad you can see through it.
I went through the same thing, and I was astonished! He suddenly reframed himself as a "man of God," telling me I "still have a chance to come back and do penance," with no admittance whatsoever about his awful decades-long abuse. What could be sicker than that?! Go No Contact, Leave Forever. I promise you, you will find peace, safety, and - over time - healing. You have my prayers.
@@karenk2409 Thank you! I appreciate your prayers. I miss my children but don’t miss him at all. It’s been 4 years and I have been no contact since the middle of the divorce proceeding. I am healing. But my heart aches like I’m gonna die, if I dwell too long on all the milestones I am missing seeing my children turn into adults. So grateful for the peace I have away from constant drama and chaos.
I recall my grandmother oozing her sanctimonious attitude of "do as I say or God will smite you to hell"... gee grandma, I don't think that's your decision... I'm so glad I figured out she was a hypocrite by the time I was 13. I'm so grateful to have met some wonderful religious people who truly live what they believe. I also understand why my mother wanted nothing to do with religion based on her mother's attitudes.
I've came across religious narcissists a few times in my life, they tend to end up hating me. As soon as they start to try manipulating me I use truth ruthlessly. I don't buy their lies and refuse to be manipulated, which does tend to shatter their egos. I have my beliefs and prefer it to be left at that.
"When you disagree with them, you are disagreeing with God." I hate that I WAS the Church Lady for decades. Thank you for a marvelous video.
Thank you for at least realizing it. It’s sad to say that Most people honestly don’t and don’t wanna accept their behavior and never repent and ask the person for forgiveness due to their actions. The religious narc I dealt with never did..
Janice Selbie,your pretty smile can make the news!
@@lioydwilliams1850 ...Pls, make an appointment with Dr.Carter...U need help!... Serious!
Good that you recognised it and admit to it x
Have compassion they actually believe they're doing the right thing. Holding ppl accountable. It was me too 😢
It is ironic that the first commandment is “Thou shall have no other god before me” but a religious narcissist’s god actually is their ego and they will use and abuse religion in order to justify their covert or overt forms of chastisement.
Spot on. Dr. C
Vanessa Green But doesn’t it seem that the Bible portrays God as a narcissist? Do it my way or I will punishh you for eternity? Also that character in the Bible that God toldto kill his son to prove his love to him...isn’t that cruel? God constantly needs to be praised because why? Is your gratitude not enough? I think man created God in his image and man is narcissistic, because there are so many stories that make God Out to be a scary monster. Rather than learning and growth. Who needs to have to be worshiped constantly? To fill his ego? It makes no sense to me. Christianity and all other religions are so full of judgment it’s a wonder why so many wars are created because of that, none if it makes sense.
The Ang Endeavor The Bible doesn’t portray God as a narcissist, but those who INTERPRET the Bible often are. In my experience, they often USE the Bible as their tool for narcissistic abuse. Case in point: How many churches have you entered have a statue of Jesus hanging on a cross right above their altar? Its as if they want you to always remember obedience or this will happen to you too. I believe the Bible is a good book, but there are many people who use that book for the wrong reasons. And praise is not for God’s sake, but for ours.
Nailed it.
@@theangendeavor9910 lolololol you tried it
Had an "enlightening" experience with a certain religious affiliation. Attended their services twice and the following week, the wife of the minister showed up unannounced at my door for what she called literally "an accountability session." Normally, I am a person who is shocked into silence when people say crazy things...but not this time. I had the courage to respond "I am accountable first and foremost to God and then to myself. Not you or anyone, barring those I love and the laws of this nation." I quickly shut the door, calmly but firmly. Never heard a word from her or those "church people" again. Phew!
Katherine You could make a fortune selling t-shirts with that printed on there. I'd wear mine to every single friggin church I could find. Oh, the places I would wear it!
John K : You are a halfwit❣. With love from an educated South African❣🐸❣
John K : Yep❣
Good for you 👍😊❤️!!!
@@johnk4934 When someone tells a narc to stop interfering and controlling behaviour, the narc calling on God and accusing the other of intolerance and black and white thinking is the next resort. If 'intolerance' means telling someone to mind their own business, roll on 'intolerance'. It's called asserting appropriate boundaries. Get used to it.
Also, John K, you display very sexist attitudes. The term 'ad hominem' means 'towards a PERSON' and is written in the masculine form of the Latin, because its root word Homo is a masculine word.meanin g 'a human'... Explaining Latin grammer is probably above your comfort zone..... If Melany Todd was making an ad hominem to you, the masculine case applies without any doubt. It still would, should a male be making an 'ad hominem' attack on a female. But you could alter the phrase to 'ad femina' if you want to be pedantic and ignore Latin usage. I guess that is up your street.
I was raised in a high control religious group, and looking back on my experience I can see that it was a narcissist's paradise.
ME TOO!
So much this! I ended up being scapegoated at my former church cause I called out glaring inconsistencies and mistreatment. I was ostracized as well lol Thankfully I don't care about fitting in like that and have an abundance of self-love!
Same here! I actually think that’s the core of my cycle of repeated narcissistic relationships and struggle with boundaries. To my family those in the religion could do no wrong. So setting boundaries was almost impossible.
Wow that’s frighten !! My ex wife and her oldest sister use religious to look Normal and grandiose over folks . My ex keep telling she need a kingdom guy while she say prayers then lie n deceive the next 15 mins literally..
@@francescawilder good for you! Yes you become the scapegoat, in an instead of the power tripping zealot religious narcissist taking accountability, they try to derail you or railroad you once you blow the whistle. Especially when they get called out for double standards or blatant mistreatment. I loved what you said.
I've been a Christian for 34 years. I truly understand the judgment that people feel because I have experienced this myself many times as a CHRISTIAN! This is not from God, but from judgmental, cold people who don't care about you and judge you and dismiss you without even getting to know you or your back story. I don't want anyone to treat anyone the way I have been treated. I always try to be kind.
Speak the truth in love ❤
Ephesians 4:15
Thank you for these well chosen words. Dr. C
i have told them there is one god .and he is not you or me .
Amen!
Jesus never rejected sufferers or sinners. He did reject hypocrites and judgmental assholes (re: stoning the "adulterous" woman parable).
I’m out of Christianity and wish I knew more , as a Hispanic male of 50 being psychologically targeted by a narcissistic Pentecostal Hispanic mother and one ignorant father in house hold of Controllers .. when i began what was assumed soem calling of God it became a hellish torment and false ideologies that was never corrected en enforce by A narcissistic mother and her forceful views .. just till 2015 I had nasty even that almost landed me in jail and back to where I started from again cause her dumb stupid ass ..!! I’ve had enough and sadly been mentally abuse by these sick people .
I’m so thankful for my church that began to walk with me in my “marriage issues.” They eventually saw the abuse because they got involved. They supported me when I decided to get out. It’s a conservative church that believes divorce is a last resort. It was watching two pastors walk with us who began seeing things (even I was not seeing) and even physically & emotionally protected me in very subtle ways. Those small protections opened my eyes! When I realized my two pastors were more concerned about my than my spouse it was like turning on a lightbulb!! After 8 months of meeting with us (while we were separated) they finally refused to meet with him anymore and then I filed for divorce (the hardest day of my life). They have continued to come around me and help me. I know that is rare, but it has been a blessing. They loved him & offered grace, but they also called him on the carpet! My ex professed to be a Christian but when challenged and asked about spiritual things he would dodge it. So it’s not just the grandiose overbearing narcissists, but also the covert. I’m sorry so many people have been gaslighted by the church/legalism. I was in many churches where I tried to go for help & didn’t get it for 17 years. God brought me to this church and it was a huge part of my rescue.
So Glad you found that
Thank God. I'm happy for you.
So glad you found that! Seems similar to what’s unfolding in my marriage. Hope you’re doing well! 🤍
That was a beautiful story. God bless!
That's great to hear! I wish my congregation's leaders had done that for me. Even so, God took care of me. They can keep the narc and I'll move on. But I have to tell you I was surprised when I found out he'd hurt another precious lady just before he met me. The first lie he told me, on the second day I met him, was that he was never interested in her and they had never dated. Turns out he'd purchased a wedding set and then for some reason, the engagement didn't happen or was called off. It was impossible to get a straight story on the details, but I don't care. It was really good for me to find out he'd lied to me right off the bat-- just made it that much easier to leave.
My Mother actually says when you disagree with me you're disagreeing with God
Classic. Dr. C
Both my parents had this point of view.
Word of Faith?
She is God
Jennifer Farrell : Oh, yeah❣. My aunt is Gods CLOSEST confidante...❣
Faith is in your heart, not in organized religion. You do not have to go to a specific building to hear another human being tell you their "opinion' about God. Thank you so much Dr. Carter, this video was right on! Kudos!
So true!
Sounds like a good setup for narcissim.
THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH
I love what you shared.
I just wanted to share this little inside knowledge for some people who may not know, but Dr Carters dad was a pastor or a minister while he and his brother were growing up! So I think it's super great that he covers this topic because I'm sure there were times while growing up that he saw people acting in such ways. ( NOT at all saying his dad did because CLEARLY his parents raised a great person!)
My uncle was a televangelist, quite well known a few decades ago. I grew up in the religion that he founded. Boy, could I tell you some stories. It's no surprise to me that narcissists and other controlling, toxic people flock to religion. They can abuse others and call it "tough love".
These people have nothing to do with Christ and his teachings.
Oh, yes❣. My aunt has a "hotline to God". She is sure that God supports her manipulations 100%❣
Religion is the best place for Narcs, because there is a lot more vulnerable individuals that a narcissist can take advantage of.
Oh boy, you know it!
They exploit other people's ignorance while perpetrating their evil against the innocent. Meanwhile ignorant people applaud the evil doer, all while the victim's suffer in silence.
The church should be the FIRST place that anyone can come with any issue.
Its sad
My sentiments exactly. Dr. C
I disagree. The church has a responsibility to maintain Biblical principles, or it becomes ineffective even for the lost. It's all about knowing God and approaching Him on His terms, not just about our personal lives and comfort here on this earth. There is a responsibility to purge wickedness to protect the purity of worship - how can believer be equally yoked with unbeliever - same principle. Granted not everyone in church is saved, and not saying throw them out. But when evil people come in and try to control the church, that is a bad thing. If humble, willing to meet God, that's another thing. Depends upon the outsider's intentions. It is entirely possible that a gay person could come into a church just to push their agenda. A church that accepted that would be putting God's word second to human desire.
It’s disgusting!
Shaken Grain you are a small minded thinker. It's sad.
@@danielbartholomew1891 no shaken grain is the religious NARCISSIST that this video is speaking about
Religion has become very divisive...totally misses the point of Jesus and his Teachings of Love and Compassion! Religion is used to control others.
The Jehovah's witnesses came to mind when I read that comment
This is so true.when my son was younger his cousin said,I'm not suppose to hang around you because you don't belong in my religion.Now at 43 she is overboard judgemental an very prune face.Her father is a pervert an brother in prison, sister is lose with men.So I don't get how she can turn her nose up to others.
because people started to politicize religion. Back in Paul's day, the disciples stayed away from politics. Paul wasn't trying to become a governor even though he had the popularity to become one
@@cheneethompson5756 you would be correct.
Jim Jones, David Koresh👿
Narcissist thinking pattern: "Black or white, on or off" - no gray area, no in between. These people are NPCs and ridiculously easy to identify.
no, its "how can I use this to benefit me"
No THEY ARE HARD TO IDENTIFY! UNTIL You find out what a narcos sistic person is then , you can easily identify them! I sadly learned the hard way!!😅
I can’t tell you how many Narcissistic personalities I’ve attracted in my life. When you really need the spiritual person they disappoint. They want to pray over you and think they are invincible, even going so far as saying Covid is God’s way of paying back all the people that are supposed to die, it’s baffling and shocking! The best thing is to have your own personal, private and real relationship with God. Love is truly kind. Thank you for your wisdom🙏
Wow, I haven't heard that one about Covid yet. But it takes all types. I have met Christians and Non-Christians alike who say such silly things.
It breaks my heart that Jesus’ loving sacrifice has been so twisted as to drive people away, rather than to LOVE.
Wolves in sheep's clothing
@MaxShibby was the alleged sacrifice really the best decision and course of action to take. Or did the people of that day took him out.
If I had a nickel for every time my narcissistic sibling told me “God knows my heart” (implying that none of the rest of our family was as pure hearted as this person)...sigh.
"God knows" is the biggest excuse for all of the evil and wickedness that just covers this earth!
My flying monkey sister likes that phrase also.
you realize you can use that phrase right back right? You can add in, "yes, he knows that I love him and I don't do anything to purposefully hurt him or others" and then follow up with, "God knows your heart as well..." and then walk away...
True. What a cop-out. 'this is why I can make bad decisions (knowing so), and it be ok.'
A good comeback, is "Yes, and God knows my heart, too."
I’m going to add to this conversation. I’ve met preachers who REQUIRE their parishioners give dump loads of money to the church and the preacher lives in a six bedroom mansion by the sea, yet the church doesn’t do shit for people in need.
You're not alone. Dr. C
Yep, I have religious narcisists in my family, finally worked it out and thankfully am in a position to walk away from them.
I am happy for you... I am just identifying them...
You 🚶♂️ go 🚶♂️ 👏 more power to you 💪 👏
@@damanjeetkaur4228 Me too. Richard is the man.
I will never forget when I first got married, we had to go to a family planning (fertility) class. So, the woman who did it said that birth control, fertility treatments (in vetro) , hormone shots, etc. were strictly prohibited by the church. She was very strict but yet years later I found out that she wanted another child and got fertility treatments. What? One word for the majority of these people - hypocrites.
Funny how the rules can change. Dr. C
Legalism
People change, if you let them.
You're still carrying that baggage, is she?
Oh, wait, that's a Buddhist thing.
And a Xhrist thing.
Forgive me the spelling?
You are right on when you say hypocrites! That they are. Smh!
No-one has the authority to dictate a woman's reproductive rights.
As per conformity, the Japanese have a saying that expresses what happens to people perfectly: "The nail that sticks up will be hammered down."
I was hoping that you would address how a narcissist uses religion to justify their control, rather than coming from the aspect of religion itself tending toward narcissistic abuse. Putting the onus on the religious aspect rather than on the person. It would have been helpful to see some examples of how a narcissist uses "religion" to take control and to learn some things to look for to protect one's self from that
Exactly my thoughts. This forum has become more about bashing Christians than narcicist who are Christians,because you can be both. I see quite a few who quote about God is Love and not right or wrong. Part True, Part wrong. God IS Love, yet his Love is not an excuse or pass to continue to sin. Yes, we all make mistakes and still Jesus died for our sins and demands that we all seek to do better purposely & not only make excuses that we repeatedly make mistakes as our out. As for narcissism and religion, many narcicist do actually love & serve God and still have the disorder & sadly use it as an excuse for many of their actions. There is no all or nothing at all. I know a few who can be really wonderful people who help others & take care of their families, but still at times (not all do all the time) use religion to justify certain things (ex. The husband being the head (the Bible does say that), but for a narcicist it can turn into their reason why certain decisions get to be only their way (saying the wife is challenging him) when he still should have the respect to discuss things with his wife since the whole family is affected. As the old saying goes " you can be happy or you can be right". Lol.
I'm not an expert, but I'd say read some of Jesus's descriptions of the Pharisees for a good start. If they hold very legalistic views then there's a chance they maybe using religion as an excuse or disguise.
My narc exhusband used religiosity to keep me under him I'm writing a book about the man of the cloth mask, because that's what a narcissistic man hides behind. I have many more examples of how they operate. One is to use scripture against the other person. Like if I wasn't doing everything to run the household, laen, school for 4 sons, clean, cook, homework, he would still tell me I wasn't a good help- meet for him. Also his angry outbursts, he would blame on me. When confronted later, ask me how quickly can I forgive. But he would never have remorse, just do it again the next day,up to 490 times.
We had a little pamphlet by a prominent Christian leader in the 1980's, and that's where he started this "how fast can you forgive" stuff. Except he kept at me, I was the only one forgiving all the stuff he did towards me, but still have to be pleasant and nice to him when he didn't deserve it.
My sibling (the narcissist) has done that. Use religion to justify her actions. Both to me (the scapegoat) and her significant other. It's despicable! I wish I could find a way to let her S.O. what he is dealing with! He is such a nice guy who apparently doesn't know what he is dealing with or perhaps knows by now and is trapped by her. I have cut all ties with her to save my sanity. So I would be definitely stepping over boundaries by informing him. But it does concern me.
Anyway..lest I go off into another direction. I too was hoping the same of the video being about narcissists using religion rather than bashing religion. I'm new at identifying traits (thank you to all YT posts!) l I've learned THE most by videos. I'm very grateful! Be safe everyone!
I think we should always remember the main topic is the narcissist, they will always look to control and use religion to get it!
I encountered a narcissist in my church yrs ago, who was 60+(& I in my 40's), a former pastor and a counselor...and fits a lot of what you described plus other red flags. My therapist told me narcissists intentionally seek positions of authority, particularly in church leadership and another told me he wanted to mold and shape me to his liking. Thank God, I saw the light and got away from that one; AND before it was TOO LATE and married the guy 😬
I was in a relationship with a narcissistic “Christian” for 3+ years. We met at church and were friends for 7 years before he initiated the relationship. He knew my life story and my weaknesses and preyed on them to get what he wanted. He led me into a sexual relationship, knowing that I was in love with him … not knowing then that he is a narcissist. He is a Biblical counselor at our church!!! And, of course, he managed to get out of going through counseling as part of his training. He told me to tell no one of our relationship and that we would not “label” it either … so he never called me his GF or even significant other. Two months ago, when I told him I wanted to be BF/GF to be able to tell my loved ones about our relationship, he IMMEDIATELY, THOROUGHLY and PERMANENTLY ended the relationship, on the spot … threw me out like TRASH. As I was leaving he said, “don’t do anything weird at the church.” I could go on and on … he revealed his true self and I told the church leadership what he did to me, and thanks to God, they will be suspending his counseling and calling him to account. Stay away from those overly charming and perfectly humble “Christians” … they are masters of deceit, deception and deceitfulness … LIES!
My narc mother found a narc pastor for counseling bc I begged her... Both attacked me ten minutes after meeting pastor Bass Turd Mike J. Sutherland @ Mill Creek Church on s St in Bakersfield CA
I'll never forget a certain woman I met once who tried to convert me to her religion. We only met once, but within minutes of our first meeting, she asked me what church I attended. When I told her I didn't go to church, she asked me why not. I then politely explained to her that I was a Deist. Under a poorly constructed veneer of false niceness, she asked me three times over a period of 45 minutes to an hour to go to church with her. I was polite but steadfast in my refusal, since I have no trouble maintaining my boundaries. I know what I believe, and I won't be easily swayed.
The main reason why this woman stands out in my memory is that although I was a stranger to her, within minutes of meeting me she was attempting to breach my boundaries. Not only that, but she actually seemed offended by my refusal to step in line with her program!
I recently made eye contact with her again from a distance in a public place. Although several years had passed since our first meeting, she seemed to remember me, because when she looked at me, she actually glared at me! In her eyes, I was still the bad guy so many years later.
I'm no psychologist, but I strongly suspect she's a narcissist. She may or she may not be, but the woman clearly has some major issues.
I would invite her to come to my place to read the bible and have a drink or two .
Good for you 👍🏾
Thank you……. You just taught me a valuable lesson.
@@JM-vj7we Really? How?
The worst is when your covert narcissistic wife is fully absorbed into the Charismatic church and IHOP and then is able to use all this subjective content as manipulation tools against you.
"God tells me what is really in your heart, you know."
"I prayed about this, and God told me this is the right thing to do."
I went through this for 15 years.
@WolfThorn Back in Nov 1995 when we had first moved into an apartment together, she convinced me that the apartment was haunted by a demon who hates women. And that this demon wanted to keep us from being together. We would fight like mad when at home, but we'd go drive off in the car and everything would be fine. She claimed to see things moving and convinced me that the apartment had an oppressive air about it because it was inhabited by something that hated us. We reasoned that if it was trying to divide us that we should just get married and that would bring an end to the torment. Got engaged in late January and married in April. Of course that changed nothing. We always had fights at weird times and places, which made me believe in her claims that demons inhabited certain places and that bad things happened when we went some places and not in other places. Looking back, I'm amazed at the lengths she went through to fabricate this elaborate manipulative act. From that point forward, she always used her "spiritual sensitivity" as evidence to give that she knew what was the right thing to do and what God wanted for us. And this was just the tip of the iceberg. Fifteen long and terrible years later, she finally lost her grip on me and left. And that began the horrifying procedure of gaining some control over my own life while also struggling to not be destroyed in the family court and have my daughter taken away. I could write a huge book about the craziness in my life over the decades. It's an unbelievable tale that I wish I had the capacity to get out there so everyone knows what kind of stuff can happen if you get together with one of these women.
this happens the other way round too, sadly
@WolfThorn ??????
God keeps people's heart issues confidential. He's not a gossip like people are
Yep. The Charismatic Movement is so dangerous…same thing happened to my brother and now he’s really messed up. IHOP and all.
The more I watch you, the more I respect you for the righteous person who you are...
Thank you. Dr. C
All you can do when encountering this type of person is to walk away. Save your breath and your energy.
And finally we have the only "Winning" answer. Denial and self justification simply overwhelms this type of persons thinking, and hence actions. Which leads to all of these wishful ideas (to try and help these people) that simply never work in the real world. Just like an addict, they change only "If" they finally decide to. Sadly most never do.
Of course in the religious fantasy world that fewer and fewer buy into every day, reality needs no actual proof to back it up. Want to feel special, and dare we say superior... no problem. Just claim that you talked to yourself (prayed) about...whatever, and "Gawd" revealed his special brand of truth just to you.
Think of Joseph Smith and his magic plates here if you question that enough people will actually ignore reason, logic, and common sense, and simply buy into this horse shit.
Most humans are so incredibly naïve and gullible that it is simply astonishing that we ever become the most destructive, er, I mean dominate species on earth.
And now you can "Never" be wrong about anything, ever, as you have the Sky fairies blessing on virtually everything. Talk about having "Church lady" syndrome.
It must feel awful empowering to have that much imagined power. Is it any wonder that they will never even consider questioning any of their beliefs or choices...? Proof? Ha, I have something better, I have wishful and wilful ignorance on my side. For brevity sake lets just call it my faith.
Again Juno Cat for the win. The only viable choice is to completely, as in 100%.... DISSASSOCIATE with/from them. Permanently, as in, for good.
Think of them as cancer.
Or else say to them “Strange, I spoke to God this morning, and He said something different. Bless you!” And then smile and walk away
This relationship is very Addictive and mentally dangerous...
Not when you're her caregiver. But she's almost 90. She has 3 sons. She's got 2 who don't share her mentality. But one,who's very active in their church and his wife and kids think like her. Well 2 out of three ain't bad.
@@angelawatson1594 lOL!! That really makes them mad!! They hate it when you prove them wrong by using the bible, Koran, etc.
I find people act the same way about politics, be it left or right.
isn't that the truth...
Makes me sick that i ever wished peace for anyone
@earth ocean Reps often express their politics in religious terms. that their party is a faith in its own right
@earth ocean Democrats embrace the Constitutional law of separation of church and state. Far-right Republicans ignore it.
Trust is necessary as the basis for all relationships regardless of where they originate.
A narc is never trustworthy.
1 Corinthians 15:33-
“Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits.”
Cynthia Yakushev - More accurately: "Be not deceived; "Evil stories corrupt upright minds."
IN ACTS: FOLLOW GOD. NOT HUMANS.
My ex MIL is head of Childrens ministry she is by far the worst human I have ever encountered. Extremely narcissistic
Sad but true, some people have that odd combination..."Christian" but mean. Dr. C
I've got a MIL straight from hell. She's totally messed up her son. But he's in therapy now. Hardest thing is him coming to terms she'll never love him
Rainbow Magick I’m glad he recognized. The father of my child is exactly like his mother and he terrorizes my daughter and I . We are counting down the days until she is 18.
@@shannon_m_s my heart goes out to you. My mother is a flying monkey for two different narcissist in my family. It's so hard when you can't just walk away from the narcissist.
Organizations that purport to assist the vulnerable are hotbeds of malignant narcissism. They're fruitful places for narcs to hunt for targets to abuse.
My ex-husband would actually follow me around our home with his Bible, cherry picking verses and pointing out what an ungodly woman I was. He would even be so arrogant to say that God will tell me He never knew me or tell me that he and Jesus were waiting on me. He even hit me in my head once and said, "now you can go tell everyone I beat you over the head with a Bible". This man has malignant narcissism and I believe true psychopathy. Anyone who uses God's word to manipulate others is beyond narcissistic, it's pure evil!
Reminds me of my religious narcissist mother who said I wasn't saved but didn't ask if I was a Christian. She acted like she is God and can see who's saved and who isn't. She felt that a church member who used to be my friend but no longer isnt had two kids out of wedlock while being a member of her church was more saved than I was according to her. I'm glad I'm no longer a member of her church. She is not all seeing and all knowing. She is not God.
My girlfriend was being physically beaten, gaslighted, stole from by an alcoholic husband (now dead). She got wave after wave of church people telling her how horrible she was for trying to get a divorce. He was arrested and the church people really didn't care. She was THE sinner. This wasn't just a few people in her church either. There were dozens and they were comming to her house whenever they wanted to, not when she was available. Yet, she was the one working. Her parents were also in on it.
I know not all church people are like that but damn, I have so many of my own truly disturbing experiences with people who live by scripts with a subtext of hell. When I factor in her decades of abuse not only by her parents but the community I am astounded and horrified.
I came from Southern California where the opulence in churches was so far from anything Jesus taught. I saw People who were obsessed with their appearance. I saw so much unconsciousness in so many people and so much easily identifiable, overt abuse that others were just "switched off".
I had a customer for several years who was Christian. I was intrigued because she actually had feelings that would change. Sometimes she was having a good day, sometimes she seemed depressed. She was alive. And I trusted her and she didn't care if I was Christian or not. She was a rare jem in my experience.
I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience with Christians. However not all ppl they say they are a christian is truly a christian. Not everyone that goes to church is a christian. But also not every one that is a christian are on the same growth level. A new christian is not going to act the same as a 30 yr christian. Also you are as christlike as you want to be. Some Christians are more christlike than others. Basically you are as close to God as you want. Sadly some Christians don't want to be that close. So those are probably the kind of ppl you've run into
Cleveland, I hear you. I never met anyone with your compassion when I was young. When I complained to my boyfriend how abusive my parents were, he told me he thought I was over reacting. Sadly, I married him anyway. 40 years later, after all this research on narcissism, I’m getting out. I notice my spouse always chooses very faithful loving Christians as best friends... that way? What? They always assume the best? and never question his lies? A sex addict who gets to pretend he’s the best because all his friends are the best. He picked me because of my faith and forgiveness, but was never faithful. I guess this is the opposite of what you meant, but I’ve certainly seen what you have described. It’s sad.
Wait. Your girlfriend had a husband? That first part is a little unclear. Thanks for sharing.
@@treyb3693 probably meant galpal
I needed this! This was very healing for me - and you just described about half the members of my family. I feel so isolated, like I can't be myself with them. So thank you, thank you for explaining that LOVE should be the prime focus we all have. :)
Yes, it's what all law is built upon (ideally). Dr. C
John 13:35
“By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.”
THAT IS IT!
Absolutely!! Thank you.
You are so refreshing to listen to. I could listen all day, and sometimes almost do.
Same here.
Me...5 hrs later..."Oh Shoot! Gotta Make Dinner!"😁😂😍
I always learn something new or deeper when I listen to Dr Carter's videos.
Thank You, Dr. Carter.
My X husband was very controlling and abusive even while training to be a minister. He has a church of controlled victims now!
Joan And they probably think he is wonderful. Luckily, you can be his X, smile, and watch from afar.
What a God send. 🙏 He is very calming. I just posted this because I have went through this myself. It's very difficult but im so relieved that a doctor in psychology is saying the same things that I've been saying to a bunch of people of faith for 5 full years. People from a faith that I've never been a member of scolding and shunning me. One strange trip it's been for sure. Thank you so much for opening up this discussion. it's much needed. Not to make them wrong but to ignite love, communication, and understanding regarding this subject. ❤
I'm a preacher's kid that is fully grown with the family of my own, and trust me I know all about having narcissistic religious parents. My life has always been scripted up until I hit my mid-thirties and realize how controlled I was. I had to go no contact for almost a year. They respect me now when we talk. I will no longer be made to feel like God would never hear my prayer because I was so horrible of a person because I talked to "secular people" and I will no longer be controlled!
This is me, thank you for sharing. Feels a little less lonely in this world.
I’m truly jealous of you. I hope to get there one day. It’s so painfully obvious how little my dad respects me when we talk. I know I have to detach and not take it seriously, but it’s hard. I wanna be heard but he doesn’t care. He tells me God will punish me for marrying a no Christian woman. I had an ex pass away (after the fact) and it killed me. Just yesterday my dad said that was an example of God punishing me for a non Christian relationship. He said the same thing would happen to my soon to be fiancé. Imagine your dad telling you that… Anyways. Just venting. I hope to figure it out like you have.
I'm happy for you. My fundamentalist religious mother has this overly parental view over me like she owns me and I must submit all the time just because she brought me in this life and I owe her, and I'm in my thirties. Always lording over me, telling me all the time "you don't live for yourself, you don't die for yourself" and it drives me insane. I'm really at the point of eventually shunning, cuz it's too much.
Remember how Jesus was having a dinner in a rich person's home and in walks a hooker that washed His feet with her tears and hair. Remember the homeowner & his friends reactions? They were shocked at how He interacted with her ("How can He let her touch Him knowing what she is"). He gave them a verbal beatdown for being so judgmental. (Luke 7 : 36 - 7 : 44)
YES. This is why I like Jesus a whole lot.
I love Jesus. Total gangsta
Sorry to inform you but that story is fake
The sad thing about Jesus was that he was a megalomanical narcissist who manipulated superstitious and naive people into his own cult.
this is why church attendance is down. because of this behavior. glad you spoke on this.
Are you nuts? Church attendance is way way way up.
@@susan5560 established churches are shrinking. The 'new' ones start up but will implode as well.
People will realize it's a huge time & money / talent suck & walk away.
@@timewa851 WTF are you talking about? Is that a reason to turn your back on God?
@@susan5560 God is in a building
waiting for me to walk in?
@@timewa851 Not that I know of.
I cannot express enough gratitude to you Dr. Carter. I didn't know what I was dealing with for so much of my life. I feel like such a huge burden has been lifted. You just don't know how helpful your videos have been to me. Thank you so much!
After recognizing that the responses you have gotten are showing the degree of emotional pain inflicted by those preportedly teaching love, I am one of your greatest fans! Your calm demeanor and balanced perspective is so helpful🤗 I would have endured alot less struggles if I had stumbled onto your recommendations years ago. I am sure others would agree. Religious narcissists can intimidate well meaning potential followers to the point of atheism. Thank you for your willingness to help!
One of the best ways to follow Jesus is to be humble and to ask Him to show you how to walk in His wisdom. Wisdom isn't forceful and controlling, people that don't walk in wisdom, they have no "self control." To walk in wisdom is to know right from wrong. We need to look at others through the eyes of God. God looks at others with compassion and Love.
Julie Jen. Morality is knowing right from wrong and practicing accordingly. Wisdom is the proper application of knowledge. I ain't no bible thumper but I know that
I've been around and in religious life for a long time and what I notice more often than not, and what you note, is a complete lack of curiosity on the part of the numerous narcissists hiding in religious circles. God is the ultimate tool when you're attempting to control the universe. Thanks for confirming my observations. I hear truth in your words over and over again.
I am musical, was raised in church. In my adult life I exhausted myself working in ministries where narcissists somehow found their ways into leadership and from behind the scenes I witnessed it all. My own father was an ordained minister who got by with his narcissism and was enabled in catastrophic behavior that ripped our family with total protection. I am a Christian. There are wonderful ministries but the balance for me is worshipping Christ outside the church. Thank you for this article
Thanks Vicki. See if you can find on my other channel the video, What Does It Mean To Be Spiritual? It takes the discussion a bit further. Dr. C
I love the Episcopal Church because they allow me to be free in mind, body, and spirit. I knew this was the right church for me when I was taking an Introduction to the Episcopal Church. We had discussed the three legged stool concept that all Episcopalians know all too well. God and religiosity is always approached with three different but equally important aspects, what does the Bible say?, what does Tradition say?, and thirdly, the one I love most, what does reason say? On the last meeting I thought I’m going to test this. I told the group I struggle with the Trinity and I’ve never been able to wrap my head around it without having to admit it’s just a mystery. You know what, several others struggled with this too and nobody admonished anyone because of it. I felt a freedom in a religious setting I hadn’t ever experienced before. For me, this was a true blessing.
We're on the same page!!
I watch these videos because it helps me understand so much from growing up with that narcissistic mother... hell woulda been more fun. She’s off her rocker and I’m healing from it. Thanks, Doc 🤗 I was made to feel that everything was my fault all the way into adulthood
I recently was seeing a man who was very religious. I am a believer but in a more of a spiritual way than a religious way. Because I didn't see things his way, he looked down on me. At first, I thought it was pretty cool that he was religious until I saw how it controlled him. He waits on signs from God for everything. If things go wrong it's the devil. I feel that we are responsible for our actions. Anyway, it's over, and may I never be hoovered again. Thanks again for the help and information!
Just ordered your book, "Pleasing You is Killing Me". Can't wait to read it. Thanks for your work - I'm learning a lot.
Kim E in Aspen,you got a lovely smile
Omg.. I had no idea that you wrote the book "Pleasing you is Killing Me". I remember reading that book and that being my 1st awakening call. For the 1st time I got answers to why my idea of being a "perfect wife" was killing me in every way. Your book changed the way I worked in my relationship and surprisingly it wasn't hard to make those changes. Also, I married into a religious narcissistic cult. It began with having my husband not sleeping with me until my virginity was validated by my evil MIL while being "possessed by god. " Yeah, according to that God, I was pure and a vigin. My educated husband believed that despite having sex with me twice a few days before. This this not take place in some remote village in a third world country but right here in CA. I could and should write a book about all the abuse I endured in the name of religion. Thanks to you and others on RUclips that I woke up to "narcissism."
So pleased! Dr. C
OMG I have never heard of someone having their virginity verified! That's ludicrous. (I am a Christian and and have dated non-Christians bc I was in love.) There is not way to prove virginity scientifically anyway so that seems odd that doctors would comply.
I have never felt more validated in my life 🥺 my whole growing up at home was like this and no one understood, I thought I was the only one :')
At least right now, I am wont to say that this video is the most important reach-out in cyberspace. 'Hyperbolic,' one might say. Well, maybe. Perhaps some rare video featuring the unadorned words of the very subject/object of Christianity, to wit, its founder Jesus Christ--and in such a style as to both get attention and to enter into the human heart--is more important. Be that as it may, good Sir Psychologist, you come close enough with the words of Paul. Whether it was the (unlikely!) apostle's intention or not: in 1 Corinthians 13 we get a description of the Son of Man (but also Son of God) Himself. For this is how Jesus interacted at all times and in all places with hated tax collectors, whores, not just judgmental but murderously condemning religious leaders, with pagan (hostile Roman) occupiers of the Jewish state, with members of a supposedly inferior culture (Samaritans), sincere and unsincere rich people, a weak but redeemable besr friend who betrayed, et al., etc. To the thoroughgoing and lucid mind the historical figure, Jesus of Nazareth, can thus (with intellectual honesty) only be regarded as this world's biggest loser or fool or scammer...OR: as the most radical mover and shaker of the human mind and heart so far, on this planet anyway.
But I want to propose something more than this summary of an apologetics for Jesus. I believe He, as Son of Man like you and i, at least smiles when we try and have His back for a change. I.e., it's a standsrd part of any mutual friendship. I said that on purpose. Why? Bc a thought like that is more or less blasphemy under most of the 800+ theologies of Christendom. Since the Roman Emperor Cinstantine anyway. We'll remember how he--by around 400 c.e.--, in a lopsided balance of power with the Roman sect of not one but many different Christianities negotiated an agreement. The Roman Christian authorities had to accept the version of the Christian God, or godhead, he (Constantine) closely supervised into existence. I (with more others than one might think) find this new and highly reductionist version of "Our Father who art in heaven," Jesus the "only begotten'" of this father, and the Holy Spirit to raise far many more questions than it answers. So, fast forward to the 1500s. Yet another Catholic monk, beyond Luther and Calvin that is, firsr thought long and hard about Constantine's realignment of the Christian godhead so that it roughly corresponded with the 3 main Roman-Pagan, abstract, mythical deities. Our Spanish monk's French-icized name was Jean Servet. Jusr recently the Swiss federal government and the Geneva cantonal government bent to pressure brought to bear by Spanish and other highly determined contemporary sympathizers of the long dead monk Servitus. For Jean Servet was ordered burnt at the stake by Reformed theologian Jean Calvin. The heinous crime? Servet's repeated refusal to retract on the more relatable, the more logical, the more warmhearted, yes: dare we say: the more biblical, the more originary, the more empathizing, the more immanent human ideation of the Christian God. Better: of the Christian godhead.
This restored the view of a son AND a separate very real father (= real "aliens" on some higher planet if you will) that had actually been through ALL(+) you, I, all my parents and your parents, all our grandchildren etc etc have gone through or will have to go through from the moment of birth until our (certain) death some time in the future.
Why, then, is this video of yours of such urgent importance? Bc you have a thoroughly class-act southern accent that you wear discreetly (the "better part of valor"!) and yet shamelessly (in the good sense 😉). A littlr humor is called for at this juncture; "lest we perish of the truth." (Credit Mr Nietzsche, oh my!)
In all its awful seriousness: you put your finger on, and then into perhaps the #1 source of events that traumatize--that debilitate American homo sapiens. That is, humans like I, you, yo mama, my dad, my son, your daughter, my bestie, your bestie girlfriend-maybe-spouse of 40+ years. (Am best-guessing; with no doubt of your pardon in advance..as if "predestined.")
What might that source be? Let me go anecdotal instead of ideological-professorial-ideational academi
You ain’t alone. I grew up the same way
Thank you DrC, this helps to clarify a lot. I went through a very hard time with Christian friends who are more judgmental about getting me to "Forgive Unconditionally" my unapologetic, unrepentant, never sorry repeat abusers because if I don't do this I fall short as a Christian. Actually, in Luke 17 “If your brother or sister[a] sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them.” Repentance is important before forgiveness is offered, and this blessing of "sinning, repentance and forgiveness" leads to divine redemption. With narcissists, there is no remorse, no repentance, and some of us never received even an apology throughout the relationship for serious wrongs done to us. This pattern is repeated over and over again in the Bible, the Prodigal Son, the criminal to the right of Jesus on the cross who repented and was forgiven, but Jesus did not offer forgiveness to the other, etc. So Christians are not meant to accept abuse, and should distance themselves from unrepentant abusers. However, there are Christian friends who were more adamant about me offering unconditional forgiveness than any concern about my well-being and what was happening to me. That peer pressure was one of the reasons I stayed in a terrible relationship for so long. I would like to share this site with all Christian and Non-Christian victims of abuse out there. It clarifies in a biblical way, and I was surprised (and relieved that I wasn't the only one) that so many Christian women were rejected by their church friends for leaving instead of forgiving their abusers. At times I do struggle with direct interpretations of the Bible because I have gay friends who are absolutely wonderful souls. Like DrC said, focus on the Love. Hugs to all struggling victims. www.confusiontoclaritynow.com/women-of-faith
Oh, the stories I could tell you! So many Christians fail to understand what Adam's fall was about...wishing to be in control, becoming self absorbed, blame shifting, having no regard for the other, creating a False Self over there in the bushes....just for starters. Dr. C
Real Christians will demonstrate living with integrity and attempt to demonstrate the love, grace and mercy of Jesus Christ for no admiration.
I woke up to my narcissistic brother in law sitting in a chair at the foot of my bed. I was in a hotel room in Las Vegas and hung over from seeing the Chippendales the night before. My religious brother in law was not invited to my birthday party, but because he was married to my twin sister and he felt like a big shot, he flew in from DC to bust up our good time. As I woke up, he began to tell me I was going to Hell if I did not change my ways. I sat up in my bed and tried to imagine a reason why this prick would have the nerves to confront me like this. It only took me a couple of minutes to tell him off. He really did speak with authority and power, but he’s not Jesus and I knew it.
Why was he in your room in the first place? Dr. C
Thank you for making us think. The latest Religious joke goes:
"The Government wants to ban the wearing of VEILS in the work place.
The Bee-keepers of America are very upset about this......."
Thanks for your common sense. If that gag didn't work, it was the way I told it.
You tell jokes really well. Dr. C
😆
I am so grateful for the expert insights that Les Carter has made available in his video! They have given me the freedom to respond to the narcissists in my life in a way that doesn't play into their games, yet respects them as other human beings who are on a very challenging journey all their own. Moreover, they have helped me to be more 'conscientious about' and 'protective of' my own dignity while still trying to be authentically loving (at least I hope).
If you happen to be a person of faith in a supreme power of any sort, perhaps it is good to pray sincerely for all of those who have gotten caught up in the claws of a narcissist (or narcissists) and to pray for the healing of those narcissists in our life, who would definitely require some divine intervention.
Thank you Les!!
The sad truth is there are good church people
Who love God and others! They do exist.
Can't truly love God without loving other's.
Thanks Jennifer 😃 😆
Indeed! I would say; you can't love anyone if you don't love yourself. Which seems to be the case with this kind of people
@@sabina.T
There are people who truly love God in a pure way.
Out of that flows love.
The sadder truth is there is the reality facet to religion wherein I am frequently attacked for not being a Christian, for following my native cultural spirituality. I agree with Surviving Narcissism in that someone's beliefs become VIP member like thinking, like sheeple u better get in line and when u don't it means that I don't have the same capacities as a Christian (for ex,) to do what's humanly decent, telling the truth (the Bible truth usually,) etc. So ty Simon, u reminded me with your attempt to make it appear as tho anyone in your club is good and me not so good. You prove the point for us all. Condundrum indeed for Simon, who forgets it is possible that I (and others) can and DO love others without loving your God because I have a different SPIRITUALITY and belief system. This is where a Christian person usually tells me "I will pray for you," "God loves you anyway and so do I." And a plethora of darts and Barb's, parting shots that imply that because I don't sheeple and bend to your belief system, I will he singled out and ridiculed and worse.
Quite true. Dr. C
@@noemamamaka3368
My comment had nothing to do with you.
Please don't send hate my way.
"Give me those keys, St. Peter,
She said with a saintly smile,
"You must be tired after 2000 years,
I'll stand guard for a while.
I've been a good girl for seventy years,
You won't have a problem with me
I'll keep the riffraff from coming in,
No sinner'll get past me.
I can tell by looking, you know --
Just look at that one there;
You can tell he ain't no good
By looking at his hair!
And look at that old woman,
She's as hefty as a sow,
Been a glutton all her life,
You can tell it now.
See that painted floozy there,
Isn't she a sight?
You can bet your bottom dollar
That one partied every night!
Just look at that barbarian,
All covered with tattoos.
I won't be letting that one by,
Just watch me, I'll refuse!"
Mrs Perkins looked in prim disgust
At everyone in line.
Most of them were elderly,
But some were in their prime.
All of them were nervous;
All of them were stressed;
Mrs Perkins was so perfect
That she couldn't be impressed.
Peter saw them shake in fright
As they waited in a row
For Mrs. Perkins' verdict --
Would she tell them where to go?
"Wait a minute, Mrs. Perkins,
Give me back those keys!
You should not guard Heaven's gate,
The Lord would not be pleased.
Besides, you've got some work to do
Before I let you in;
You've caused a lot of trouble
You have some hearts to mend.
While it's true your life was saintly
In almost every way,
You've been very naughty, ma'am,
You've sinned 'most every day!
You've separated longtime friends
By spreading tales about.
You've spoiled reputations
By letting secrets out.
You've damaged church attendance
In ways you'll never know!
The atmosphere's so hostile now
That no one wants to go.
You've gossiped like a magpie
You oughta be ashamed!
There are people hurting
And you're the one to blame.
You've done more of the devil's work
Than you will ever know!
If it weren't for Jesus,
I would tell you where to go!
You better get back down to earth
And learn to be a friend.
You've gotta change your ways a lot
Before I let you In!"
Mrs. Perkins was in horror!
Mrs. Perkins was in shock!
She could not believe
She hadn't walked the perfect walk!
And she began recalling;
And she became afraid.
It would take a lifetime
To undo the mess she'd made.
Mrs Perkins woke up so relieved
And went to make amends,
With everyone she ever knew,
Acquaintances and friends.
From that day forward
she was good in every way,
I suspect she's up in Heaven
Walking golden streets today.
I really like that! Pride is the worst !!!
That's a lot of typing. Thanks for sharing! Dr. C
What a great wordsmith! Thanks for sharing!
Nancy Clay 😎
Nancy Clay did you write this poem?
Also....you will never hear a Narcissistic person say, "I AM SORRY." If they do, it's not sincere, but manipulative. I wish I had known about this malady years ago and not so late in life. I was really confused about some family and friends that came along, only to discard you in the end, or distance themselves. Now, I check out their character, fruits, 10 times more!
I want to thank you for the videos you make. I come from a home that is run by religiously narcissistic individuals. I could never understand or put my finger on why the abusiveness didn’t stop even after my parents divorced, after alienation of parents and brothers and sisters, and even when I left my parents home. This single video has finally put those pieces together and other videos you make have continued to help me cope and understand much of myself and of the dynamics I experience with certain family members. I can’t express in words how grateful I am that you share this with all of us here. For many of us it is a priceless gift. Please continue making videos like this! Thank you! You are making a world of difference!
You just made my day Kittie. Dr. C
Married to a religious narcissist. He loves to say if you love me obey my commands or I have the final say in all manners. Where's that in the bible? And When I can't live up to the ever moving bar he sets I'm rebellious. He obsesses over a handful of scriptures that he has twisted...I've finally woken up and working in getting out. Submission does not equal doormat!
This video touches me personally. I was raised Jewish and when I told my dad that I'm an atheist and will date whoever I want and not just Jews, he told me that a part of him will always feel like he has failed as a father. That really hurt and I'm working with a therapist overr the fact that he is a covert religious narcisist.
There are many ways to find God's goodness. Dr. C
Your dad will accept it eventually. I had a menorah and a tree. So I became atheist to respect others beliefs. Now we have a huge family with all sorts of custom not just Jewish!
“Ungay himself!” 😂 Poor guy...I love all the people you mentioned.
who said do not love?tell me
You are such a kindly man, I could listen to you all day. Thank you, I am sharing your video on my FB. And I will purchase both of those books, looking forward to reading them very much.
Thank you. Dr. C
Fortunately, there are some genuine, accepting church families out there who welcome all.
Yes. Dr. C
Where ?
@@brendasmith7345 Try Red Rocks Church. They've got sermons on youtube if you're curious.
Sarah Romano Not curious at all ever again and for the love of God please don’t pray for me.
Churches like you described, They're quite rare, extremely rare..churches that welcoming (not fake love bombing) are not common...the church in America is largely a joke....let's face reality here
When a 'pastor' tells you 'God told me this about you'...totally decimated me and I just lost hope.
Yes, became His spokesperson.
I had NO idea what narcissism is.
Jesus remained faithful to me.
No church for me...some of the worst people I know are in churchs. Very sad.
I wasn't the only one this happened to.
Do not DARE to ? them.
Brilliant video....thank you....it sounds as if you were in the same church 🙃
In a couple of weeks I'll be uploading a new video about how religious narcissists will gaslight you.
Quote from my beloved Narc: "I'm so humble, nothing I say was invented by myself, it's the Holy Spirit that speaks through me."
Which usually comes from the most evil person in an any-mile radius
🤦
Yes, they're just like little "popes"....INFALLIBLE!!
vomiting icon here
The more I learn the more I'm convinced I'm a recovering narcissist. Back when I was trying to save my family from being ripped apart I tried a couple of churches. The one got too personal, tried to get me to confess my sins, of course narcs have none. Its everybody else's fault. I did get the spiritual part and over the years developed a healthy relationship with God and the universe. 25 years later we're all still together. And pretty happy, respectful, and hopeful. Like any normal family we have our ups and downs but we work on them together. Love conquers all. If you want to help someone bring up a story about how you dealt with a similar situation. And the results. Suggestions are seed planted in the soul.
This is so true and a member in my family fits this to a tea. Actually there are two narcissists in my family but one uses her religion to judge and be in superiority. Luckily I figured it out and now and in no contact with her. Thank you for sharing. It's so appreciated.
I love this man and I just discovered him and his channel today. I have never seen anyone even mention this topic of religious narcissism but its a phrase I've been using in my life for the last 5 years or so. Good job and keep it up. I am now a subscriber.
Thanks for your good words...and glad to have you on board. Dr. C
Dude! Have you met my folks, especially my mother? LOL I saw the title and figured you'd encountered my parental units.
Kelli And THAT is the blessing in our experiences with these vile people.
I have a new reality from studying the scriptures deeply for almost 3 years now. This has changed my perspective deeply, the cultural norms people want to participate in, is in the long run between them and their creator. We are all messy. I believe the individual you label used "religious narcissist" would be narcissist in any rhealm anyway.. The concept of love the sinner but hate the sin needs to be brought up, and number is one is look in the mirror and remove your own beam.
Love that " I believe the individual you label used "religious narcissist" would be narcissist in any rhealm anyway". So true. Can't throw out Christianity just bc of the people who "use" it for their twisted benefit.
I find it hardest to be around narcs who make themselves a false God and reject and show no respect for your beliefs. I think it comes from a deeper guilt and shame about mistakes,fears, insecurities, they can't deal with in them and they project it onto you or try to control you.its maybe just their anger about themselves. I have a friend who is jealous and hates it when I tell of a godly blessing and I say I thank God.
"God laid it on my heart to tell you ..." No. No He didn't.
Isn't it cute how God only talks to busybodies?
....My husband-you describe him so well, Dr. Carter...”to a T.” Sure wish he & I could have some office sessions with you. Older he gets, the worse he gets. He lives & behaves by double standards. Most days I feel like the life is being sucked out of me. Watching your vids, sometimes multiple times, is truly helping me survive. Thank you!!May God bless you and your family!!!
Tou still have the free will to leave. Too many people atay out of fear or financial stability. No one should put up with abuse unless they are held captive. Best of luck.
Susan I appreciate your words of concern @Susan There are complicated circumstances involved here. Can’t explain in too many details here for obvious reasons. I really despise the masks that he wears. Sure, it’s off with me now, but many many other people hold him in very high regard. He behaves so respectable in a highly respectable job. Plus, at church he wears a mask there, too. They have no clue of his real self. Dr. Carter is so right; my husband’s childhood trauma as a little boy has simmered, festered, and morphed into something unimaginable. Peace to you, Susan 🙏😞🕊
Hi Dr Les
I saw a number of videos on this topic and found yours to be the most insightful. This is mostly because the others addressed the stage narcissist, the one in full view of others, while you addressed the religious person walking in our midst. Your insights showed me exactly what I was suspecting and I thank you for it! Good work.
Reminds me of people in politics too, the ones who refuse to hear a differing point of view...
I've never known a more genuine person in my life. You are so incredible! I only wish I could meet someone like you but I'm afraid nobody could even come close. Thanks for being you.....
I agree 100%. A narcissist is a narcissist is a narcissist even if it says “I am Christian “! Sometimes it’s the so called Christian who is the hardest to reach. God will certainly humble us and prune us through trials and tribulations and as a follower of Christ I respect the personal relationship that a person can have with Jesus. We all have our own lessons to learn and no one can tell you about your destiny in life. If anyone says “you are not saved” or “you are not a Christian “ that is a red flag that you are dealing with a person who does not understand the first commandment of Love but only repeats scripture. Reading scripture through the lens of legalism is not God.
yesss!!
This is pretty much everyone in my family & it was me until a few years ago. Losing my religion made me a much kinder, happier person
Uhggg....I grew up with religion...and I feel like I was narcissistic...and still have tendencies....but I'm learning...I'm no longer a christian....a few months ago I wondered if there is a connection between narcissism and religion...as I studied and listened...I was blown away....I really used to think of myself as being superior to others who thought or believed differently than myself.
It's taking me most of my adult life to realize the poison of religion....and narcissism. As I heal....the easier it is to recognize the many forms and or narcissistic masks that people wear....Thanks again Les...
Amen!! “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. [35] By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” (John 13:34-35)
I have known Catholic Narcissists who have used their faith to argue themselves exempt from man made laws they don't want to follow.
Some ppl want to come across as 'Loving' but the more you get to know them, it MIGHT/DAMN well could be more of a matter to be controlling.
There is an excellent book, “Fool Proofing Your Life” by Jan Silvous. It’s a great book, especially for Christians who believe in The Word of God. Although Jan doesn’t call it narcissism, she does call t what God calls it, the biblical “Fool”.
I’ll be praying for all my brothers and sisters who may be suffering under this terrible issue. God will never leave you nor forsake you. God bless.
MendingMinistry Thank you!! I was watching some of her stuff but it got a bit too heavy. It has to fully line up with Scripture for me to keep listening. She’s amazing, and speaks LOADS of truth every parent should hear, esp about the school system!!
Thank you again for responding. I’m going to read Jan Sylvous book again because I need it again. Lol.
God bless you!
God has turned them over to a reprobate mindset theres no turning back for them!
@@narconaterx8146 This is exactly the sort of scripture that is used to control and abuse by the Church.
With respect, what you speak of is legalism which is not what Jesus taught at all.
Legalism. That is an apt word. Dr. C
Exactly. Dr. C
Yeah sorry that’s bullshit
Leagalism is exactly what it is. I used to attend church but have not since shortly before my divorce. My 14 year old son loves to go to church but hates his mother ( the narc). I told him you can't go to church & harbor hatred & unforgiveness toward your mother when forgiveness on the cross is the foundation of the religion you love. That only makes you a hypocrite, which God hates most of all. How about we all approach others with an attitude of forgiveness first. Whether you agree with someone or their ideology or their lifestyle remember they were good enough for your savior to die for they are good enough for you to forgive. Remember forgiveness isn't for them it's for you so you don't have to live with a bitter hate filled heart & soul. Imagine how hateful & bitter God would be if he hadn't forgiven mankind & how much better the world would be if narcs would all be forgiving. Then they wouldn't constantly try to project their wretched selfs onto others
@Rinske Raphael
Hmmmm..... It seems you're calling me a religious narcissist if I understand your comment correctly. If that's the case I respectively disagree but I am open to trying to understand why you think that.
Thanks for this. You made me realize that my father was one of these religious narcissists (and meaner than hell to boot). And you also made me realize that I married a narcissist. Because of that I haven't been right about anything in 40 years.
I was out of the nest and single for around 12 years before I married. In retrospect those 12 years are basically my whole life. Since I got married I haven't been able to make any decisions about anything. Any decision I make is automatically disregarded and overruled. In fact I recently realized that my wife is my father, in my mind. I have always been the child.
If only I had known.
Eddie X You know now. You have started healing. I will be thinking of you - sending good vibes!
She lacked submission for starters...
Thank you for this video! It was very helpful. I am recovering from Jehovahs Witnesses indoctrination for more than 35 years. I was “in the truth” until I began to use critical thinking skills. The organization discourages “independent thinking” to keep you indoctrinated. Looking forward to reading your book.
sofia morgan.
Oh Yeah! Watchtower just adores us, Critical Thinking Ex-JWs!( Says Me, Sarcastically).
But, You are Correct.
Outside Researching, Questioning and Outright Disagreeing with All Watchtower Teachings and Expectations will get One; Reproved and Chastized and In Most Cases, Disfellowshipped and Shunned.
What Evidence Of Love and Acceptance and Christ-Like Behaviour? None Existent.
sofia morgan.
Are You aware of JT and Lady Cee's videos on You Tube? He is a Former Elder/Bethelite that addresses a lot of the issues of Watchtower's Indoctrination and does so by means of Critical Thinking. He is also very Pleasant to listen to and Informed.
Check him out, If You haven't already.
Sparkle Canada Thank you. I will do that.
Grew up in it too, horrible harmful cult.
Some of the females that are religious fanatics talk about God like He's there big boyfriend in the sky. And they encourage others to "seek a more intimate relationship with God" I've heard those exact words used some of those Church TV shows.
Christians should speak with the authority of Christ, which is humble and gentle and loving. They should also speak in the spirit of truth, which comes out of a loving relationship with Christ, remembering that Jesus is the truth, and who is an endless fountain of wisdom. In other words, the Christian should point others to the fountain of wisdom rather than make others submit to them. Speaking of 'authority' and 'truth' needs to come from a relationship with Christ. It comes through in action and tone (spirit).
Well stated. St. Francis of Assisi: "When you proclaim peace with your lips, be careful to have even more of it in your heart." Dr. C
Amen, may we represent Christ as His ambassadors not his judge and juries on earth.
I used to think that way too, until I realized that Jesus and God are very different. With that thinking, I had to give up the Old Testament which is filled with many horrors such as brutal slayings, mysogyny, jealousy, abuse and bigotry... all in the name of "God".
I can relate to focusing on all the nice and loving parts of Christianity, but could no longer ignore the horrors. It was a 10 year process, but I'm finally free from indoctrination.
@Nickhead87 Which was as huge factor in my deconversion. If any sane person could not torture anyone (even a mass murderer) for longer than a minute, I could no longer support a diety that claimed to do just that. By the way, if there was a God, life could have been set up in any other way so as to avoid torture. I just can't revere a being who is okay creating people who will choose another god based on their location, which will then end in everlasting torture. There aren't any sane parents who would inflict such unfair pain on their children.
Nickhead87 God sounds like a crazy person. What good is it to have free will when God threatens people. He sounds like a scary person, keep my commandments or I will make you suffer for eternity and blame you for it. God sounds like a narcissist
I was married to a religious narcissist. It was particularly insidious because her behavior was so different in that community that was in our home. It was striking. But that’s where she got a lot of her supply, that and family. She could never be shown as someone who struggled, or needed help. It was all part of her inability to show any vulnerability. And because our family was very knit into our religious community, he played a huge role at our final separation and divorce. It was perfectionist narcissism.
Those kinda religious narcs will say they arent superior cuz they lie to self and others that they are humble and that they are directing things in love and "u" have the problem that u cant receive love...i love God and pray and read my bible but am very selective of what religious person i associate with..if theyre pushy in a nice..." Get outta here!".. And im gone too ..been down that crazy road too many time ..took the detour now.and happier
he hit the nail on the head. ive seen it a lot.
My ex hid behind her church. She served on the board that decided on making charitable donations to worthy recipients. She literally held people's lives in her hands. Undoubtedly she loved that power she had over people's lives. It gives me chills to think about it.
This is such a great video--should be required viewing for every human.
As a Pagan I can't tell you how many times when someone finds out that I'm Pagan on youtube channel they will ask me about what I believe. I'll start telling them about my beliefs. Then they would start challenging my beliefs. I would let them know they can believe what that want that's fine. The more I would try to answer their questions the more they would challenge me. Then they would start telling me how wrong I am. I would then tell them, if you simply wanted to know what I believe that's one thing. If you're trying to convert me you can stop now. They would then claim that they're not trying to convert me that they know they can't do that. They simply want to understand what I believe. I then tell them that I don't want to carry on this conversation anymore because I don't feel like having someone ask me questions only to condemn my answers. Sometimes they simply would claim that's not what they're doing and I'm being too sensitive. I usually end with a Blessed Be, Have a nice day.
Most of the time I choose not to challenge their beliefs I just end the conversation. Unless they get real mean. I who read the bible old testament 3 times and new testament 4 times from cover to cover start quoting scripture I'm sure they don't like. It often shuts them up.
When they're face to face and they get persistent and I can't get them to stop, I simply look at them and inform them, I once was a Christian I choose not to be one, I don't want to hear about how great they are when my Christian Father used the bible as an excuse to molest me. At that point I walk away. Where that part is True, there's more reasons than that for my change in belief. I just don't feel I need to explain myself.
Most Christians are decent people and aren't like that. The ones that are I feel would be the same way no matter what they believed. They often turn people away from Christianity not to it.
I'm spiritual but not religious, to be honest the reason I chose that (long story short) is because to me to pick a religion puts me in a box and keeps me from spiritual growth and discovering my inner truth. Religion is fine for other people at one time it was fine for me too. I don't feel that I should have to explain myself, or make excuses for my choices. I've gotten to the point in my internal growth that I don't..
amen penny. no one owes anyone else an explanation of why they believe what they believe. as a christian, i respect that. want to go get a beer?
@Jennifer Raymond 😂😂👍👌
My narcissist mother: “ honor thy mother and father “. Me: “ only if they are honorable.”
When a parent has to mandate this, something's wrong. Dr. C
My husband has had no interest in Christianity throughout our entire relationship. He made fun of me for my “crutch” and have ridiculed me for years saying I am trying to brainwash my kids. After 23 years of emotional and verbal abuse I have stepped away from the marriage. Now he is quoting scripture at me...God hates divorce and you need to come back because Jesus said not to break your vows. I stayed so long with him because of my belief and wanting to try so hard to work it out. When I started to recognize that he was a narcissist, I realized there wasn’t hope for change. I still love him. But I will not be a doormat. He is going to church and insists he has changed. But is clearing seeing me as a belonging that he needs back. He has played the victim and even our church has tried to get me to go back to him.
Look up the book, Grace and Divorce. Dr. C
There is something off about your ex- husband's approach. If he was sincere about reconciliation he would not focus on what he perceives as you "breaking your vows" or attempt to get a group of outsiders to take his side in an effort to shame or pressure you to conform to his personal agenda. It sickens me to say he is using your faith as a weapon against you to try to force you to allow him access to continue the abusive pattern that worked so well for him all these years. You were like a warm comfortable blanket and he misses the lord and master role he had all those years. In his twisted plot to get you back under his thumb he decides to play "go to church." I'm glad you can see through it.
I went through the same thing, and I was astonished! He suddenly reframed himself as a "man of God," telling me I "still have a chance to come back and do penance," with no admittance whatsoever about his awful decades-long abuse. What could be sicker than that?! Go No Contact, Leave Forever. I promise you, you will find peace, safety, and - over time - healing. You have my prayers.
@@karenk2409 Thank you! I appreciate your prayers. I miss my children but don’t miss him at all. It’s been 4 years and I have been no contact since the middle of the divorce proceeding. I am healing. But my heart aches like I’m gonna die, if I dwell too long on all the milestones I am missing seeing my children turn into adults. So grateful for the peace I have away from constant drama and chaos.
I recall my grandmother oozing her sanctimonious attitude of "do as I say or God will smite you to hell"... gee grandma, I don't think that's your decision... I'm so glad I figured out she was a hypocrite by the time I was 13.
I'm so grateful to have met some wonderful religious people who truly live what they believe.
I also understand why my mother wanted nothing to do with religion based on her mother's attitudes.
That's such a barbaric view of God. Dr. C
I've came across religious narcissists a few times in my life, they tend to end up hating me. As soon as they start to try manipulating me I use truth ruthlessly. I don't buy their lies and refuse to be manipulated, which does tend to shatter their egos. I have my beliefs and prefer it to be left at that.
Break the chains of addictions. Avoid friendships that lead you to destruction..