Water Submersion Test: FN 509M vs. Glock 19 (with a cameo from the M17)
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- Опубликовано: 19 фев 2019
- I waterboard the 509M and the Glock 19. When testing the 509M, I noted it to be very sensitive to water submersion. Just how bad is it? Check it out!
Glock 19 water test: 2:43
509M water test: 4:32
M17 water test: 8:18
I'm glad you included the M17. Interesting results and thanks for enduring the cold water.
Very interesting. I always enjoy seeing what different firearms will and will not do. Great video.
Really good test, this is something we all need to know. Thank you very much.
Thanks for vid, thanks for enduring the cold water to provide good sound info keep it up and keep it shooting
Great review, we really like the FN 509. Thanks again for your review.
Great video man. Life saving information.
Glad to see you out there in mild “infantry weather” doing this test. Thanks.
Even though I’m not likely to be impacted by this deficiency of the 509, (really like your vid of the mid sized version), it’s likely to stay low on my “priority/want” list of striker fired guns. When a stock Glock 19 w/out maritime spring cups maintains it’s reliability, I’m not incentivized to shell out $450+ for the mid sized 509.
As usual, great vid, keep up the good work. Stay groovy!😎✌️
Thanks for the video Jay.
Very interesting and quality video. Thanks for you time and trouble in creating this video.
Interesting results. Glad I have stuck with my Glock 19. Thanks.
Hi, thanks for the review and upload and also for including M 17 I have a P320 RX with the Romeo 1 red dot and I love it also probably going to be getting the Glock 19 X as well.
Also thank you for your services as military and law-enforcement officer god bless you and your family.
Thanks for the video. I do have both, like them both. Very interesting results
Nice video - good comparison. However, I'd say that for 99.99% of us non tacti-cool operators, the FN 509 would still be an excellent choice for a self defense pistol. Having said that, I won't be trading my Gen 4 G19 for either the FN or the Sig.
Note - my comment isn't meant as a knock against J. He's consistently produced excellent videos.
Appreciate the honesty. Thanks
Great job in making your point. You never know if you are going to have to take a swim or shoot your gun after retrieving it from water.
I have a M18 its a absolute superb weapon. Nice video glad u showed how reliable Sig m17 is.😎👍
It would be interesting to see the gun given a second go around with the Apex striker installed. The FN striker has design that is hollow shaped and may be contributing to the water problem. Apex may change things?
This test means zilch to me. I've never went swimming to or from a gun fight. LOVE MY 509 !. Grat video
Great video, hope FN fixes the problem in the future.
I know a guy who just bought an FN 509 M. he and his girl does a lot of hiking up North, wish he would’ve saw this video first.. I’m Shocked that the Sig worked! Because they’ve been having so many problems out of there striker fire Guns. Well at least we can take solace in knowing our military has a real fighting chance
Awesome footage. Nice to see the Project One Gun back out....has it hit the 15k round mark?
It is very close to 15K now and still runs like the first day out of the box!
Great video. Thanks for recording your test. There are reports of the FNS Longslide not having issues firing when submerged in water. Why do you think that is?
Unless you are planning to shoot bad guy submerged in water dont buy one! All guns will fail submerged. In rain no issues
Great job.
Makes me feel good about carrying a Glock on duty . We have had 6 inches of rain since Monday ! I do love my FN 509 but would not carry it on duty.
unrealistic fear of you 509 failing in the rain
even a downpour would fill the striker channel with water
I'm getting a Paul Harrell vibe from this video. May be the background...
"We're on the range today so please bear with any gunfire you hear..." 😁
Just got here from a Paul Harrell video
Great videos . I have a question Iv watched almost all of your review videos . I have been seeing several videos about the cz P10-c frame cracking under the trigger block .people say it’s no big deal but have you seen any of those videos what’s you opinion on that subject
I've seen the videos on that, and I believe it has since been fixed by CZ. My opinion is that it doesn't appear to effect the integrity of the gun as it just seems to break through where the metal inserts are molded into the gun and I've never seen a catastrophic malfunction because of it. That said, if my frame developed the crack I'd probably call CZ and request a replacement.
Well done
👍 Good information, I’m very surprised FN submitted this firearm into the competition having this issue. And since they haven’t responded to your inquiries about the issue it leads me to suspect it still exist.
Seems like it would be an easy fix. Other guns function fine (like the Walther, Sig and Glock) even without maritime spring cups. Maybe they need those and/or a stronger striker spring.
This was an excellent data point, thank you for sharing that. Can you do this test with the CZ P10c? Do you still have your P10c?
I do have one. I will attempt to run the test on it as it's been requested a few times.
@@jhelmsing Awesome, thanks. I look forward to the video.
It's disappointing to see from a company as good as FN. I'm really impressed with all their products I've come across, though less impressed with their prices lol. I feel like you saved me some time and money in my search for my next carry gun. This test definitely knocked it down a notch on my list of Glock alternatives. Don't get me wrong, I really like my Glocks, I'll never get rid of them, and but with my medium-small hands and short fingers, plus the grip angle, I need an option that fits me better and gives me more immediate, ergonomic confidence. I have been looking at the CZ P10 series, the HK VP9 or P30, and these new FN Pistols (or the older ones). Or possibly a Sig Sauer P229.
Hello again . Have you looked at the Walther Q4 tactical . Or maybe I missed that video if you have . The Stricker fired
Good test. Won’t be swimming with my 509 mid when I get it. 🤣
awesome test, and data points, can you do the CZ P-07 and P-10?
I can guarantee the P-07 will blast right through this test based on previous tinkering. I haven't tried a P-10C yet, but if I get enough interest I'm not opposed.
I’m curious if a better spring kit and the apex striker would make the 509 perform better with water and other adverse conditions.
No wonder the seals chose the G19😎
Any plans to check out the p10s?
Hey J. we're coming up on another cold Jan-Feb. What can we do to get you out there in the cold again? However, this time to try the CZ P-10C in a water test.
Hey that's actually a great idea... I'm a bit burnt our on general reviews right now but I did enjoy making the water test vid... I'll try to crank this one out soon. 👍🏼
would you do the walther pdp 9mm next?
Will the Beretta 92 variants pass? Look forward to your review of the 92G Elite LTT.
All Beretta 92's (and most hammer guns to my knowledge) aren't phased by water. Some might argue that mud and muck can ruin their day if carried locked and cocked and it gets in front of the hammer. Still not a problem decocker guns like the 92 face.
Please do the FN 45 ACP tactical a durability test would be great
Your a rock star 🏆👍
This gets into engineering, design, quality, reliability.
A GLOCK at the end if the day is an exceptional pistol. I've owned Walther, H&K, Sig, Steyr, Ruger, CZ... I've sold most of them off and returned to my staples.
G17 L 9mm
G40 10mm
G17 C 9mm
G25 .380
Love to wrap the grips with Combat Textiles fabric, in colorscand camo. A great alternative to Talon.
Thank Jay ✌️🎯🇺🇲
enjoyed the video
I held my first 509 at a gun show and loved the way it fit and looked really nice, but after this I’ll be staying with my Glocks since I’m in FL where fish, where it rains and I pressure wash.
Great test. So far the only striker fire pistols I like are Glock's except for the FN FNS. I love the FN FNS and now I wonder if it could pass the submerge test. While watching the latter half of this video I was thinking of doing something I don't want to do and that is submerge my FN FNS in water and find out for myself the hard way but I've talked myself out of doing it. I would never carry the FN FNS for a sidearm or carry it concealed because of the magazine release on both sides of the pistol. I won't go into the details of why a carry pistol shouldn't have a magazine release on both sides so my FN FNS will only be used as a bedside/nightstand pistol and for practice on the range so water isn't a factor I'll worry about for the FN FNS.
I didn't make the video to steer anyone away from FNH guns, but mostly just to make people aware of an issue I've noticed. I think the most important thing is to be aware that water will make them malfunction at least then you know what to avoid and can take precautions within reason. For 98% of us it won't matter as the chances of fully submerging a gun and then needing to immediately use it are exceedingly rare.
Thanks for taking one for the team brother. Lol. That’s why I carry a Glock. It’s a shame though. Wanted to like the 509 just isn’t much more than a plinker I guess
So how often do you plan on completely submerging your gun and immediately firing it .... im sure just getting wet from rain or getting dropped in a puddle for a couple seconds wont have any effect on it
HorsepowerDr exactly any gun will fail submerged including glocks! Rain, snow will not have the same issues.
Another great video . I liked the look of the 509 myself and was considering it but why would fn not address that .
I honestly think all it would take is a larger weep hole, but then the striker spring is completely different and rides inside the firing pin on the FN striker guns so who knows. I figured out why the M17 does so well out of water, the weep hole in the slide is absolutely gargantuan so that seems to be a relatively easy fix. Of course metallurgy and all sorts of issues may crop up in that approach.
I carry my 509 when im on land. And I carry my g19 when I go scuba diving 😂
Good to see the Sig rock the water test.
You could probably tell in the video, but I was shocked at how well that gun spits out water. I believe eventually it will be phased in for all military units including NSWC. It seems to be on par with the maritime cup enhanced Glocks.
@@jhelmsing Thank you for your reviews as I enjoy hearing your perspective.
So I wonder if wracking another round in the 509 clears out the water because it did work that one time when you did it.
I believe a tap / rack would allow it to fire in most cases.
Maybe there's an aftermarket spring that's stronger. Hopefully they'll make the striker spring stronger in the next gen.
After market spring for the 509?
Could you grab a Ruger Security 9 and try this test for us?
Maybe the apex replacement striker assembly would fix the problem. I hear the FN striker assembles are made of inferior metals that suck so bad they break completely if you dry fire the FN or after 1k rounds.
Thanks for video , i wonder if the 509 wouldve fired the rest of the mag after ejecting the first round when pulled from the bucket .
It most likely would. Once it fired, it kept firing.
I'm hoping an FN representative is watching this video.....
Me too!
You don't work at the Pentagon or at Fort Meade so good luck with that.
the 509 does not work on 72% of the earths surface lol
🤣 quote of the year
I lol'd
@@jhelmsing LOL
Humans don’t work on 72% of earth’s surface
@@Nicksperiments can you back that up with paper work? ; )
Great video there's the proof!be well stay safe! thank you for your service 👍
Thanks for doing this brother. You have to give it to Glocks. They are neither pretty nor fancy but they will go bang each and every time as you just showed. 👍🏼
I'm going to sell my fn 509 and get a glock now
Thanks for the video. I like everything about the FN except for it's reliability. I think I would buy one for a plinking gun, just not for concealed carry. Hopefully FN fixes this issue. Until then still trust and love the g19
What else is unreliable about the 509?
Do they not have a striker channel weap hole drilled into the slide near the breach???
They do, but it's pretty small.
For ccw it should be a issue for the most part. I think .ost guns will fail if shot under water is probably what most people are refering to. As for duty use yeah its a problem. Wondering how the fns9c orfns9 will door a berretta 92
The 9C and FNS9 has the same water issues. The striker assembly is identical. The Beretta 92 isn't phased by water at all.
Did you happen to mention to FN that you are a police officer?
I did not. I just asked if they were aware of the water sensitivity and if they had a suggestion for correcting it or if they were working on a fix.
FN, I love your handguns, but I want them to fire when I pull the trigger no matter what. 😓
It gets even more disturbing when you attempt to contact FN over your (valid) functionality concerns. FN:"..."
@Kyle Weiss sounds par for the course. They have never responded to me. Not sure how invalid putting a gun in water and then trying to fire it would be. Seems like a pretty basic element on this planet.
Kyle Weiss don’t fall for this dudes bullshit. 509 is a fine gun. All guns will fail submerged in water. In rain you have no issues
@@Joetrout I have no reason, motive or time for BS. The 509 is completely useless after submersion as illustrated. This is a simple fact. You can do with that info what you will.
My glock 19 has problems shooting steel casing ammo. Shoots brass like a champ but when it comes to steel casing this gun has problems.
With those wet hands, I'm glad you didn't drop the M17...
Hahahaha 🤣
Exactly they tend to fire when dropped!
I just got my 509M yesterday, and after watching this vid decided to try the test myself. Out of 10 rounds, I had 9 go off and the 10th didn't as I tried to do it submerged. Not sure when you received yours as mine was born last month so if it was an issue they were aware of, it may have been resolved. Again, mine is a sample of 1 as is yours... Nice vid...
did you wait unitl all the bubbles came out of th pistol, if not, the striker channel was probably not fully submerged with water
@@redsquadace Exactly the same, have been doing tests like these for over 20 years... I usually use a muddy creek bed and not clean water to make it more real world...
This is actually really refreshing to hear. Just hoping mine is overly sensitive and not the norm. I'd be curious to see if they enlarged the weep hole. Mine was purchased the day they (509M) were released.
Also, curious how many rounds you had down it. Mine has just north of 1K through it and I wonder if that would make a difference as the striker spring on these runs inside the striker and develops noticable wear over time. I wonder if a newer freshly coated spring would develop less friction allowing it to develop the speed needed to set off the primer -- which may explain why it wasn't on their radar.
@@jhelmsing yeah, the striker design of the 509 looks high drag compared to its competitors, wonder if they changed to a heavier spring, that would change the trigger pull dynamics tho, and prob not for the better.
Welp yhis is why a love gun tubers just saved me from buying the 509
Great vid my friend, but sure did ruffle some feathers down there in the comment section. Lol! Good times! Peace!
🤘🏻😉
I like you videos. .... you could have been sitting so we could see the whole frame. Team Sig & Glock. ... How about M&P 2.0 Compact & CZ P-10?
Why did the army not chose the M17? Crazy the didn't
Somebody buy this guy a table
Glock is always to me the best.. sig is good too but in my opinion the safety recalls with sig with the 320 series scared me to appendix carry tha gun, so I'll continue to carry my 19 with peace of mind
Glock has a drain hole in the channel. Also solid striker. 509 has a round open striker with no drain. Common sense. It’s all in the design.
There is a drain hole in the FN guns, it's just not very substantial.
FN owners notes *avoid water at all times*
Yeah, I own the FN509c and I carry it and that’s my only issue I have with FN not making this fire arm resistance to water! Might go back to carrying my Glock 😂
Did this test on my 509 tactical and shot every time
Unless your a scuba diving ninja, how's it relevant to 97 percent of the people in this country. I have been in a tactical unit for almost 30 years never had my gun submerged like that.. I live in Florida and have been on operations in 2 hurricanes. My gun was never that wet. Guess it could happen if your a navy seal. I am a Glock guy by the way.
I've personally had it happen chasing fleeing criminals twice in three years, arm deep in water from a drainage ditch and a river. My advice is the same for everyone who down plays this flaw: use at your own risk. For most people it won't matter, but the reality is that there is absolutely no reason to run the risk when there are several other guns that are much more survivable in water and the FN pistols don't offer an advantage in any other capacity in the first place. I've also been in the game long enough to know what can go wrong, will go wrong especially when you need it the most. I'll pass.
But you plug the sig 320 which is firing while holstered lol
I think everyone knows that in a practical sense, failure to fire after being submerged doesn't mean much - but it still doesn't change the fact that the 509 will not function properly after being submerged while other handguns will... take it for what it is. Sure, it has no effect in a practical sense, however, the other handguns work fine in that same scenario.
The water thing doesnt bother me with the 509. The thing that annoys me is finding mags, amd when you do find mags for 509m theyre 45 bucks, then holster selctions are way limited compared to glock. Its a great gun but life is just easier sticking with my g19.
For a the negativity the M-17 got from the Glock fan club I grinned when the Sig locked back but the Glock didn't.
You do know the sig fires when dropped right?
@@69deputy your an idiot!
Yea that's why I carry glock
i will like to see a video of G19 gen 5 and the 509 size comparation mid size
It's at the end of my 509M video. They are essentially the same in terms of size.
Nice video thanks for putting yourself through that cold water. Glad to see the us army made the right choice.
The FN Test results were really disappointing. In a self defense situation you never know what conditions you find yourself in. I was thinking of buying one, but honestly I have second thoughts now. Sticking with my glock for now!!! Hopefully LAPD has a corrected model for duty carry!!!
So after reading a bunch of the comments people wont buy or are going to sell there 509 cuz they think it wont work if it gets wet ! smh ....so my question to them is just how often do they plan on completely submerging there gun till it completely fills up with water and then immediately try to fire it ... i would think 99% of us civilians will never encounter that situation and for the gun to just be wet im sure will have no effect on it at all BUT can see this situation being a problem for the Military and some law enforcement ... but i will also say it seems like it should be an easy fix if Glock n Sig and probably others dont have this problem FN should fix it so you dont have to worry about it if somehow it did get dropped in water in say a SHTF moment
They are fools! They believe this guys bullshit! All guns will fail submerged. In rain snow u have no issues with the 509 and other handguns.
Maybe try it with a 509 tactical? Not sure if there are any internal differences between the two but supposedly the tactical model is the closest to the pistol submitted to the MHS trials.
Internally they are identical 😑 I also tried this with the FNS9 and had the same failures.
Well that is pretty interesting then. I have the 509 tactical and am tempted to try this to see what my results are. I also have the M17 commemorative and I notice that the cartridge guide in the slide is different from your P320-M17. Lots of things going on here from an engineering standpoint.
That’s worse than I thought when you first mentioned it. How does a company like FN not test their own gun they are submitting to military trials? What else did they not test ? That puts a sour taste in my mouth about FN.
This is just my personal intuition, but I think they are making so much loot with their military contract rifles that the handgun market is an afterthought for them. What is most surprising is that Dave Sevigny works for them so you'd think he would get the handgun department in the limelight but it doesn't appear to be the case.
Hmmmmm. I'm playing my 'bullshit' card here.
You can play whatever card you want. Go test it for yourself. I have zero reason to fabricate a test. Unlike most gun reviewers I actually have an extensive background in this area, and I do not take any outside funding or support what so ever. Not really sure what else I could have done to make this test more transparent. Go ahead and take your chances if you want.
interesting. my 509 shot 3/3 successfully completely submerged.
When was it manufactured?
@@KennyRodgers930 first model
Almost looks like the first 4+ shots with the 509 you limp-wristed. You waited to pull the trigger with the Glock until you had your arm straight and firm.
I guarantee thats why the fn didn't get the military contract.
I own a FNS 9c.I will keep this in mine.No water.
Hate my 19. But that's why I have it by my side.
yes your 509 will fail to fire if you fully submerge your handgun before each shot
you are blowing it out of proportion after you clear the first malfunction it fires the rest of the mag
police are also switching away from the Glock
unrealistic standards yes the other two are expectational with water but what realistic situation are you going to be in where you (except special military ops) are you going to have a handgun FULL of water
Fn = IPhone
Glock = Samsung galaxy
I love both!!!
Strictly entertaining, but don't think I'll be dropping any of my pistols in buckets of water
It's definitely not a scientific test by any means, but I tried to remove as many variables as possible. Same ammo, same gun condition, same water, and gave some expedient remedial action when the 509 turned hydrophobic.
Did you listen to what he said at the end?
Nobodies gonna be running around dropping their guns in buckets of water. That's not the point.
@@willws2conceptsshephard didn't watch the full vid, so tell me what is the point? Glock is awesome don't have buckets of water around your FN?
@J Helmsing, you made a good vid.
@Mike E, nope, not just "strictly entertaining".
@J Helmsing, actually this follows a scientific test method, it may be of singular examples, but seeing mac's vid plus this, the FN 509 design probably does have an issue with water submersion. don't give in to the haters, the butt hurt, and egotistical narcissists.
@Mikey Boi, you ask @Shep 24 what's the point?
Its pretty self explanatory.... the FN 509 Midsize fails in water submersion situations.
that elementary, simple, and obvious point, goes over the head of a self-involved dumb f*ck like you....
This is going to come off dickish but it's not meant to be. Why not do the one thing we are all trained to do when you have a FTF? Remedial action.... That would be the most realistic action and interesting result. Don't really understand the thought process of redipping the gun each time. Can't think of any situation of where a person would reintroduce a weapon into something that's making it fail. If it FTF after remedial action that would be really bad... This is definitely a problem though.
This is a bit of a modified test just to illustrate the issues I had. I was basically looking for just initial failure out of water which is why I repeatedly dunked it, just to show how prone to failure it is out of water in the initial attempt. If you can get it to run, it will eat the rest of the mag no problem. As for remedial action, a tap/rack would usually clear out the issue even though this video doesn't show it. I think best approach would be to tap/rack if the pistol became submerged just as a precaution, but this test was specifically focused on that first round in a "shtf" situation where remedial action prior to engagement isn't an option.
@@jhelmsing, I wonder if the removal of the spring in front of the firing pin or a lighter spring would change the outcome. I don't really understand it's purpose since the firing pin is captured by the sear when it cycles so a slam fire is pretty much impossible.
@@InkedIan I think the front spring is to get the striker off the cartridge before it ejects to prevent primer smear / extraction issues and possibly fractures in the striker (ie the Sig P365 debacle) I do think it probably plays a role in slowing down striker momentum and exacerbates the water problem.
@@jhelmsing, that could be it. I wasn't aware that was an issue. Wonder why glocks don't need that spring to prevent that particular issue. I definitely think overly exposed firing pin/striker spring area is a big part of the FN water issue. Just asking for shit to come in and hangout.
add MP 2.0
Military Arms Channel tested it: It passed the water test.
The MP2.0 is very reliable, doesn't quiet like heavy mud but then again not many firearms do.
Well I guess we know why sig and glock were the last two standing in the MHS testing. “509, a million rounds tested” bahahahahahaha! Complete marketing ploy. Should have went like this “509, a million rounds tested, but none submerged in water.” I almost bought a used 509 last week from guy, but backed out at the last minute. I like the 509 but it’s not the combat gun it claims to be
We all know tge glock 19 will fire completely underwater and cycle good multiple rounds people scuba dive and fish with them. My 509 is on the way im not concerned with the water performance. Very nice test. If i do end up in water and in a gun fight at the same time i know to cycle that slide to fire. Your right that it doesnt like water hydro lock.
Hydrofobic gun....
Just don’t drop the M17