I bought a Limited for MSRP (a luxury these days) and have been using it as my daily driver… I drive 120 miles a day, and have been able to squeeze around 52mpg. Extremely happy with it!
Hard for me to justify paying this much for this car esp with the markup games Toyota is playing. At this price point it is better to buy a Lexus as they have more inventory right now and less markups. I am getting offers for a 2023 ES350 for $5K-$7K under MSRP east coast.
This Crown is odd for sure. Aside from the greater horsepower and ease of entry for the aged, I can't think why a buyer would choose the Crown over the ES hybrid. The Crown is available in monotone colors. It looks decent in black, which I've seen in person.
The truth is you're comparing 2 different generation products. There's no way the next es is priced lower than the crown. To be frank the crown has better all around tech but the es has the better sound system probably. 😊
@@bigcjm Lexus certainly not pricing their products as last-generation. I thought Crown had the same late-1990s cheap interior that every modern Toyota has. Not as bad as GR Corolla and it didn’t flex and creak like the $60k Tundra but nothing premium about it.
Looks are subjective and I like it, but for the price I'd probably be looking elsewhere. No hatch is also a negative given that body shape. All the negatives of a sloping rear roof for a hatch without the benefit. I think the prius is just a more reasonable choice..
Ive only seen one in person which leads me to believe this isnt selling that well here in the US (Ik its the first model year only). Hopefully there will be unsold units with big discounts.
It looks great to me, I'm 74. I drove a 2016 Avalon and loved it. I thought I would give up my lease and get a 2019 Avalon but when I sat in it I hated it. Toyota went a different direction for the Avalon and focused on a younger generation with the seats making it more sporty. The seats were no longer comfortable for a person with a little extra weight and love handles. It was no longer aimed at the people it was origionally designed for. Results were it didn't sell. Is this new product aimed at the newer generation or do they have one that older people would find comfortable?
It is not a new design, it is a Honda Crosstour style. Still convenient and many people would love it. But Crosstour did cost $35k and this car is $55k?
I have the 2024 Platinum Hybrid Max. The Sport S is better shift and throttle. The Sport S + has better shift, throttle, suspension and steering. I got mine for 51k
Blase steering wheel, console area, and sound system. No HUD, does it have an opening sunroof? Toyota still needs to work on their infotainment interface. Id love to see this to excel, but its a no for me, especially for that price point. Extra thumbs up for the sound system review.
A benefit of a sedan over the HB/liftback is a tad more sound deadening in the back, which may mean more to the Avalon buyer this is supposed to take over for. It is not intuitive given the shape, but a lot of odd choices are done based on consumer preferences. Remember, some people even think the last generation CR-V looked good and the new version is "too aggressive".
Seems to me in my limited experience that hatchbacks are almost always plagued with road noise. The floor behind the seats acts like a big speaker. Unless the designer does something extraordinary and expensive for sound isolation to add to the already expensive hatch door it will not achieve the quiet, isolation within budget that they achieved with this car. Trunk is cheaper and quieter.
Reminds me of when people were knee-capping Porsche with a similar comment 😂....however, in this case, it's way more egregious on the two-tone version.
I just can't understand why car makers refuse to sell liftbacks? Makes the car so much more practical then having a sedan type hatch. And most sedans nowadays are almost designed in a way for the rear glass to lift with the trunk.
This may appeal to a lot of the Avalon’s older customer base-older folks, who have difficulty getting into the physically lower Camry, but who still like sedans. It has SUV (well, crossover-ish) entry/exit ease, with the formality/higher status of a traditional sedan. And they’ll be geeked about the gas mileage that’s the same as the higher trim Camry Hybrids.
"SUV entry/exit ease" having watched older people get in and out of SUVs/full size trucks they're not the easiest things to get in or out of as well. If we're taking about ease of ingress or egress nothing comes close to a minivan but for some reason that doesn't sell minivans.
Exactly. The ES is miles better especially for 45-55k. Toyota made a huge mistake pricing it Lexus levels. Any potential buyers might as well go with the Lexus plus the Lexus ES is gorgeous compared to the Crown.
It’s so ugly and I don’t understand why its more feature rich than an equivalent Lexus while having shoddier build quality. Why does this car even exist? Toyota should literally be deleted from existence.
Need to turn your head the other way and avoid looking at the Crown the Clown. If you happen to be the Crown driver, don't worry as people are not laughing at you, it's just the car you are in.
I kinda dig it. If it had a hatchback and were a little cheaper (i.e. if dealers can't move them in 1-4 years and you can get a deal), I'd consider looking at it over an upper trim Prius
Every car reviewer isn't a car reviewer, they're a sports car reviewer. "I don't like it because it isn't sporty... this isn't what I would buy... I miss manuals..." I've never seen a "comfy drive" reviewer. Like really, have you ever heard a youtuber dog a car for being too sporty? Only one type of driver is drawn to making these videos. It's not bad, but it is weird.
Toyota has several different Crown models, one that looks like a crossover with hatch. I don't know why they brought the ugly, weird looking sedan to the US. They "un-weirded" the Prius only to double down on the Avalon/Crown in the oddball styling. Great engineering but no one is buying them.
I've been waiting for this review (I've been driving the new Crown in Japan, the 2.4l turbo - maxed out trim - since this Feb). One thing is that I actually switched from Lexus ES, and had RX 4th, and RX 3rd gens before that (all maxed out hybrid versions). So I kinda know a bit about Lexus. I'd say Crown is actually very very close to ES in terms of comfort. But that's about where comparisons end really. These are generation apart (except for the platform, I guess). Toyota Safety Sense 3 is leaps and bounds above Lexus safety system (which is TSS 2.5). The navigation is so much better. The drive train - and one would really have to be into fuel efficiency to go with 2.5L hybrid in Crown - so yes, the drive train 2.4L turbo, 6-speed real transmission, all-time AWD, the 340hp (compare to ES… I think 180 or 216?… was it?…), it just drives so much better with so much less stress on highways. Sure this is kinda sorta preview of the next ES, but look at RX prices - we can't really expect new ES will be in the same price range as the Crown, it'll likely be considerably more expensive. I also don't think they'll go with the new AWD hybrid system there (probably just because there's no space to have it, if not for that reason alone). I loved my ES, LOVED IT. I love my Crown. Would I take one over another? This is complicated (I mean I took Crown over ES, but that's not what I'm talking about). ES is so much more kinda plushy, interior is better, the ride quality of sedan form factor is more relaxing in general, less body roll, that kind of stuff. Also ES has so many things Toyota has "saved" on in the Crown you won't notice, initially at least. Such as exhaust gas sensors flipping your HVAC automatically from outside intake to recirculation, the lack of polarized side mirrors (the rear one is digital, so that's fine), the lack of the TPMS ffs! Lack is interior illumination (as minimal as it was in the ES). Crown, on the other side, it technically so much more advanced. The 2.4L turbo drive train is fantastic. All the safety systems are great, way way way above ES (new RX has the same stuff though, and so would be the new ES - at the new price). I like the form factor, but I look at my old ES photos and I like that just as much (sometimes more, sometimes less than the Crown). Oh… talking about tech - the steering wheel is Crown is actually touch-sensitive, meaning you can just touch it for the car to keep holding the line in auto-cruise (vs older system which required you to put some force - otherwise the system would yell at you that you are not holding the wheel even THOUGH you WERE holding the goddamn wheel). So I mean… Do you want a Lexus quality ride, with Lexus RX 500h+ Sport whatever that new model is called drive train? At much less price? This is the car for you. I wouldn't go with the standard hybrid for this one. But I mean… that shouldn't be bad - you'll get 1000km per tank on a highway, no probs, with the standard hybrid. So duh. Oh! And did I mention rear wheel steering on all models? And how about the pro-active driving assist (it's a god-sent in city traffic). So I mean, this review - for me as an owner - felt a bit too shallow vs the normal content of this channel, but hey, still nice to hear the thoughts, appreciate everything. Also, one thing I totally agree on is that the fucking audio system sucks. I eventually had to replace all speakers and add an amp, because I couldn't get over what I was getting in the "toyota premium audio" package comparing to what I had in ES with Mark Levinson (which ended up costing me half of what I paid on Crown audio refinement to make it sound just about as good - speakers placements aside). Anyways. A wall of text, hopefully will help someone. Thanks for reviews and all that stuff :)
The wall is text was very helpful and I appreciate the comparison from someone who owned both cars and not just reading spec sheets. I wish more comments were like this.
I can remember the 70s when the Toyota Crown and Mark2 were my dream cars but i was only in my teens, so looking was all i could do. I miss those cars.
Ah the 70's! Had a 65 GTO in 1973 (Junior in high school) with the 389 cu in motor. That was the last (kind of) quick car I've owned, and now I'm looking for something that is reliable but also in the mid to low 13's (quarter mile.)
Great work as always. Would be very interesting if you guys would do a docu-film on the differences in your experience of where cars are built, as in Made in Japan or Germany VS Mexico or USA, etc.
My local dealer has a price adjustment of -$2995 on an XLE model. ( It's 7/17/23, area code 53188. ). Great video as always; my favorite review channel especially when you guys are talking together.
Let me say again that I love that you review the audio systems. As someone who values good sound quality and will not buy a car with a crappy stereo I now know that if I want in on this Toyota platform I’ll stick with the Lexus ES with the Mark Levinson system. Despite that I heard about the sound system at the end of the interior discussion I still watched the whole video because wanted to hear about how it handles on the road.
Mark said this is not the car for audio enthusiasts, which sounds hard-exclusionary. Is audio system customizing not a thing anymore in these modern times? Like, if it is bass heavy, can that not be equalized out with all the modern fancy computer tech? Kinda suggests it is a problem with the speakers, and those should be replaceable, if there are still compatible aftermarket ones.
Mr Goose I'm not sure exactly what's changed but the picture quality is insane. Not sure if it's a new camera or more editing but this video looks insane, and I'm just viewing at 1080p. Honestly a lot of the b roll looks like Toyota hired someone to shoot it for advertising. Great job honestly
I'm probably one of only a few people in Canada who actually own a Crown Platinum with the Hybrid Max powertrain. I've had it for about a month now. There is no way I would've bought the two-tone paint version. I opted for a uniform magnetic dark gray, and to me anyways, it looks fantastic. Had a few nice compliments and questions from strangers, because it really doesn't look like anything else out there, especially from Toyota. It's an absolute gem of a ride. While I agree, if mileage and traffic heavy commutes are your reality, the XLE or Limited would be the more logical option, the Hybrid Max really does make it a different driving experience. I tested a Limited before going with the Hybrid Max and the difference in power, especially with a car with this much heft, is noticeable. Nobody would confuse this as a Sport sedan, I get that, but the Hybrid Max really does give this vehicle enough power to make driving it a bit more lively and engaging. Toyota is trying something new here, if a Crossover is typically more SUV than Sedan, then what on that spectrum is more Sedan than SUV? Enter the Crown. Toyota is experimenting with this to see if there are any buyers that might want a more Sedan-like vehicle than your typical Crossover but still give you a few things like extra ground clearance, some ride height, a lifted appearance, great visibility, ease of getting in and out and a spacious overall feel that separates it from a regular typical Sedan. They won't sell many to be sure, but will they sell enough to keep it around for a awhile? I don't know, but as someone who found it compelling enough to actually get one as my new daily, I can honestly say it's been a fantastic ride so far. In a world where most automakers are playing it safe and not pushing the boundaries much, kudos to Toyota for actually trying something different and bringing something new to the market, that success or failure aside, is truly an excellent product.
All the other 3 were better looking than this one 😂 The Sport is like an SUV Supra The Estate is the most practical of them all The Sedan is, oooff, class. But still a Toyota.
American market is over saturated with choices it would be nice to have all 4 crowns here. Toyita can’t fulfill the demand for its current vehicles so no way they’ll add 3 more fringe models
I lusted after one of these for over a year when I first saw they were coming out. I thought the Platinum hit everything I wanted from comfort, power, and convenience...but...the price was way into ES350 territory. The Limited seems like the best value if you don't need the power though. The 21" wheels are a big WTF for me as well, especially for a daily. First thing I was planning on doing was getting the lower trim 19" wheels. Sidewalls FTMFW! Finally the day of truth arrived when they started getting in stock. The local Toyota dealer had $5k of markup before the additional markup for tint, nitrogen, and stripes (barf). That is what finally killed it for me. I picked up a 1 owner '19 ES350 Ultra Luxury for $36k and couldn't be happier. Less complexity, great power, low NVH even with the crappy Michelin Energy tires. And the cost savings allows me to go on more road trips which this ES just absolutely excels at. It's everything I wanted. Which is a shame as I still have a weak spot for the Crown Platinum but not at MSRP let alone $5k+ over MSRP. I also considered a '23 Accord Touring Hybrid (I love that meteorite gray metallic) but again the dealer (different chain here locally too) had insane markups, and the lightly used ES came out cheaper again, even without said markups. At this point if I get rid of this ES for another daily it will be a '23+ ES350 Ultra Luxury for the wireless android auto update.
What car manufacturers ultimately overlook is the fact that by now in the 21st is a powered open and close engine roof and glove box that should come standard with everything automobile being made today. That would be the ultimate game changer in car manufacturing.
It's funny how "the future of sedans" is exactly the same kind car as the future of coupes, minivans, wagons and muscle cars: a heavy blob-shaped crossover with compromised headroom and cargo space for no advantage whatsoever.
The best thing about it is getting a glimpse of some of the things Toyota will do in the future. Personally, I think it's hideous and I don't understand the value proposition. I agree many people cross-shopping this thing would end up buying an ES.
That thing is so damn ugly! Just awful. Japan got the good looking Crown and we get this junk. Damn this thing is gonna flop hard. Almost feels like the old Accord Crosstour that was a major flop. I don't care if it's a Toyota and it will last forever, it's still ugly!
Great Review. I was strongly considering one of these until the pricing was released especially for the hybrid max. I went with a 23 Venza Limited and it gets great fuel economy in real world driving.
I like it: someone has to make a Buick Park Avenue. Maybe part of the value proposition is that outside large urban areas, Lexus dealerships are few and far between while Toyota is more common.
Just wandered through a few listings, a lot of dealers are putting $3K under MSRP on the top spec models. At $50K, they finally reached the point where Toyota buyers say what?
I got one sitting in the garage since early March,I don’t like the loud engine sound it makes when it switches from Hybrid…It think it has maybe 1500km/932 miles,My wife takes it out once in a blue,me as well if I just want to start it up and go run a few errands….Yeah I don’t think you’ll see many around same as the Avalon,solid car though.
The ground clearance for the Crown is 5.8". The ground clearance of the Toyota Camry is 5.7". I think that's ridiculous. I was looking forward to the Crown but what's the point? It should have at least 7" if not more.
As a Lexus owner, I don't understand the value proposition with the Crown. Way too expensive -- you'd be better off buying a Lexus for about the same price.
@@mikemayers8672the Crown isn’t even a hatchback, despite its design screaming hatchback, it’s still a sedan, which means it’s not as practical as it appears to be. It also has less trunk space and interior room than the Avalon. So why did they replace the Avalon anyway? They could have just redesigned the Avalon and updated the powertrains, and if Toyota really wanted the Crown in North America, why didn’t they just rename the Avalon the Crown? They didn’t have to kill the Avalon and replace it with this stupid thing.
@@mikemayers8672 A brand new 2024 Lexus ES 250 starts at $43K without dealer markups -- yea, I think I would rather spend a few extra grand and get the Lexus.
@@zoomzoom3839 Totally agree with you. And personally I liked the latest gen Avalon, I thought it was sharp. The Crown just doesn't make any sense to me.
@@mikemayers8672UX, IS, ES can all be had at your pricepoint, although the former two are not the same size class. Might be good to qualify your statement... although I'm not sure what you'd compare this to.
I have a 2021 LEXUS IS 300 AWD with the V6 and it’s the quietest car I have *ever* experienced. It’s a very luxurious car. When you wring out the engine it sounds truly magnificent. It would be nice to add an exhaust with an adjustable gate to quiet things down. HOWEVER it only gets 20 MPG for NORMAL driving. BUT, it’s a lovably spirited vehicle who makes you feel safe and coddled.
I think this will actually do relatively well, for the time at least. It's weird, the mainstream full size sedan segment is pretty much non-existent nowadatas. No more Impala, Maxima, LaCrosse, Taurus. That means at least less competition from other brands. Also, although I think the ride height thing is super weird, reminds me of the weird S60 cross country, a major buyer of large sedans historically has been crotchety old people, and the raised ride height will appeal to those geezers for it's ease of ingress and egress. My step father's father bought an outback almost solely for the ride height.
The mid-size sedans are full size. You'll find there's almost no dimension an previous Gen impala had an advantage space wise over a camry, accord, sonata. The accord is one of largest sedans on sale period now.
@@bigcjm Yeah, I agree, I think that's partially why the full size/premium sedan segment has started to dissapear. The previous gen Avalon is nice but it's really not that much different from a camry in interior volume or even preveiced quality so why would anyone pay 8kish more for a similar car. Similarly, for the last several gerneations I'd take an accord over the malibu, maxima, avalon even though it technically competes in a different segment
I really love this car and I have no idea why! I’ve never liked SUVs, and this for sure isn’t one, but I love this concept of a slightly lifted sedan. It just looks so weird and quirky in the best way possible.
When displaying the audio system testing graphs, could you add a plot that shows what the ideal audio result would be? For those not familiar with these graphs, it's no better than a Rorschach test. This one looked like the graph of my wife's date calendar with the pool boy.
@@mitchellsteindler thanks for chiming in Captain Obvious. I might have been born at night, but I wasn’t last night. If Mark and Jack can say a particular system is shyte while another one is great, they can surely do something to explain the squiggly lines for those whose lives don’t revolve around audio systems.
Final thoughts on the Toyota Crown: “You’re paying $20k for a slightly better ride over the Camry but the exterior is so unflattering you’ll likely want to park it in a garage.”
There's always a clapped out Altima infront of all of us as we drive through life 🤣
I bought a Limited for MSRP (a luxury these days) and have been using it as my daily driver… I drive 120 miles a day, and have been able to squeeze around 52mpg. Extremely happy with it!
Wise choice!
Perfect scenario for a car like that, enjoy!
52 mpg - wow!
Hard for me to justify paying this much for this car esp with the markup games Toyota is playing. At this price point it is better to buy a Lexus as they have more inventory right now and less markups. I am getting offers for a 2023 ES350 for $5K-$7K under MSRP east coast.
@@andrewgus8763 here in Seattle, there is a $3k to $7k markup on pretty much every single new Lexus…
This Crown is odd for sure. Aside from the greater horsepower and ease of entry for the aged, I can't think why a buyer would choose the Crown over the ES hybrid. The Crown is available in monotone colors. It looks decent in black, which I've seen in person.
ES Hybrid drivetrain is so coarse and unrefined. If this is really better, it’s a no-brainer over ES.
The truth is you're comparing 2 different generation products. There's no way the next es is priced lower than the crown. To be frank the crown has better all around tech but the es has the better sound system probably. 😊
@@bigcjm Lexus certainly not pricing their products as last-generation. I thought Crown had the same late-1990s cheap interior that every modern Toyota has. Not as bad as GR Corolla and it didn’t flex and creak like the $60k Tundra but nothing premium about it.
@@Ficon is this better than the 3.5L v6?
@@naveenthemachine ES hybrid has the wood chipper 4-cylinder
I asked for it and you responded thank you
I test drive the base model it drives like a Lexus. Interior is nice too
Exterior in black is acceptable
This should have been a lift back like the Prius. I think it would sell way better if they made it like that.
yeah just like the stinger…
I feel like these are going to drop in the used market pretty quick and become a very appealing option for people.
Of the four Crowns available, they gave us the most hideous one. I wish they had brought over the Sport-style instead.
I hope they do. That one is very attractive IMHO. Not this one.
Looks are subjective and I like it, but for the price I'd probably be looking elsewhere. No hatch is also a negative given that body shape. All the negatives of a sloping rear roof for a hatch without the benefit. I think the prius is just a more reasonable choice..
Made in Japan honestly is a big plus
Buddy of mine bought one in all black, I think it looks better in person. I think the one in this video is a little weird looking with the colors.
If the used market wasn't so crazy the platinum crown should be like 36k after 1-2 years with 20k miles and that would be a great value.
Definitely and interesting thing. But yea, why not a hatch? It looks like it! Maybe they couldn’t alter the structure to make a hatch out of it?
Can you please review Kia Rio?
Ive only seen one in person which leads me to believe this isnt selling that well here in the US (Ik its the first model year only). Hopefully there will be unsold units with big discounts.
I hear they are already discounting it.
This thing is an abomination.
It looks great to me, I'm 74. I drove a 2016 Avalon and loved it. I thought I would give up my lease and get a 2019 Avalon but when I sat in it I hated it. Toyota went a different direction for the Avalon and focused on a younger generation with the seats making it more sporty.
The seats were no longer comfortable for a person with a little extra weight and love handles. It was no longer aimed at the people it was origionally designed for. Results were it didn't sell. Is this new product aimed at the newer generation or do they have one that older people would find comfortable?
The sportier they made the Avalon, the less they sold.
The SUV shaped crown sport they unveiled would've made more sense for this in north America..
Agreed 100% but this was meant to replace the Avalon. Bring the Sport ASAP!!
Why couldn’t they make it a hatch, that would’ve justified the raised profile and fastback roof. Missed opportunity.
Omg that catalyst converter looking dayummm! Easily one , if not , the highest stolen value in this day and age for a toyota, big 👍🏻 thumbs up!
At 4:26 of the video, trunk is mentioned but its capacity is not informed and this is an essential information in a sedan.
i actually like it. It looks great to me
It is not a new design, it is a Honda Crosstour style. Still convenient and many people would love it. But Crosstour did cost $35k and this car is $55k?
I have the 2024 Platinum Hybrid Max. The Sport S is better shift and throttle. The Sport S + has better shift, throttle, suspension and steering. I got mine for 51k
Blase steering wheel, console area, and sound system. No HUD, does it have an opening sunroof? Toyota still needs to work on their infotainment interface. Id love to see this to excel, but its a no for me, especially for that price point. Extra thumbs up for the sound system review.
I know a lot of people that actually want a lockable truck. Kinda strange to ask for but also nice to have when you need it
A benefit of a sedan over the HB/liftback is a tad more sound deadening in the back, which may mean more to the Avalon buyer this is supposed to take over for.
It is not intuitive given the shape, but a lot of odd choices are done based on consumer preferences. Remember, some people even think the last generation CR-V looked good and the new version is "too aggressive".
Seems to me in my limited experience that hatchbacks are almost always plagued with road noise. The floor behind the seats acts like a big speaker. Unless the designer does something extraordinary and expensive for sound isolation to add to the already expensive hatch door it will not achieve the quiet, isolation within budget that they achieved with this car. Trunk is cheaper and quieter.
I gotta be honest, I love the root beer color on cars :P
If only this was a wagon, where the Venza should have gone...
Agreed. There is (supposedly) the Crown Estate wagon that Toyota will likely never bring to the U.S. I can and will keep hoping I'm wrong though.
It's amazing how we've normalized $40,000 entry level cars.
This isn't an entry level car.
absolutely awful
I like the looks of this thing. If I had the budget for a large luxury car I'd at least give this one a test drive
Finally, the hybrid Crosstour we've all been asking for.
LOL
GM needs to revive the Pontiac Aztek to compete with this.
@@pistonburner6448imagine 😭
Now with no hatchback, for reduced usability! What could be better?!?!?!
@@ktakashismiththe fact this isn't a hatch is absolutely maddening lol
Always appreciate the objective and subjective reviews of audio quality. Thanks for doing it.
At one point I want to actually learn how to read the charts
Nothing gets me harder than when my car looks like it's shitting out another car.
Reminds me of when people were knee-capping Porsche with a similar comment 😂....however, in this case, it's way more egregious on the two-tone version.
I like that SG hired someone to drive an older Altima slowly and erratically in front of them to simulate traffic.
That was AI generated
timestamp....I don't remember it
@@fortheloveofnoise 13:30 Make sure to watch all the way until the Altima starts to veer off the road onto the shoulder.
Seeing Mark cringe at the Altima going off the road and then backing off made me giggle.
Lol it has one of those yellow student driver stickers too. No mercy.
A Prius with 8 inch ground clearance should be the future
They should make a Sterrato/Dakar esque version.
10-inch version with 35” wheel will sell like hot cake
I just can't understand why car makers refuse to sell liftbacks? Makes the car so much more practical then having a sedan type hatch. And most sedans nowadays are almost designed in a way for the rear glass to lift with the trunk.
GR Prius and TRDOffroad Prius trims would be super easy for them to make and cost them nothing, and would probably print them money
@@TermlessHGWAudi and BMW do sell liftbacks.
This may appeal to a lot of the Avalon’s older customer base-older folks, who have difficulty getting into the physically lower Camry, but who still like sedans. It has SUV (well, crossover-ish) entry/exit ease, with the formality/higher status of a traditional sedan. And they’ll be geeked about the gas mileage that’s the same as the higher trim Camry Hybrids.
Perfect styling for the older folks. This car's trunk looks like it wearing a diaper, I can see all those depends users flocking to this xD
a sedan with "SUV entry/exit ease" is an SUV isn't it?
"SUV entry/exit ease" having watched older people get in and out of SUVs/full size trucks they're not the easiest things to get in or out of as well. If we're taking about ease of ingress or egress nothing comes close to a minivan but for some reason that doesn't sell minivans.
@@splak_5624 in the words of Regular Car Reviews, "It's 'A Car.'"
This car won’t sell. Not at this price point. People will either buy the Camry or move to an SUV or a Lexus.
For the price, you may as well go with the Lexus ES
Exactly, you can get a new ES350 for $42K and dealers are offering discounts on it due to higher inventory than Toyota.
Exactly. The ES is miles better especially for 45-55k. Toyota made a huge mistake pricing it Lexus levels. Any potential buyers might as well go with the Lexus plus the Lexus ES is gorgeous compared to the Crown.
Agreed, but if you want AWD, the V6 isn't available in the ES. Only FWD. As far as I can tell...
@@MrHuff05In your opinion…
Only reviewer that mentions how the stereo sounds. Keep up the good work. You have my vote for best car reviewer. Top notch!
It’s so ugly and I don’t understand why its more feature rich than an equivalent Lexus while having shoddier build quality. Why does this car even exist? Toyota should literally be deleted from existence.
I think the best part about driving this is the fact that you don't have to look at it.
So you're stuck inside the car forever?
lmao
Need to turn your head the other way and avoid looking at the Crown the Clown. If you happen to be the Crown driver, don't worry as people are not laughing at you, it's just the car you are in.
Wait till they add a 360 view parking camera.
@@user-dj5fu5on7n Um, yes it is. (But looks are subjective. My wife thinks I’m handsome).
I kinda dig it. If it had a hatchback and were a little cheaper (i.e. if dealers can't move them in 1-4 years and you can get a deal), I'd consider looking at it over an upper trim Prius
If it had a hatchback, it'd have a reason to exist.
Can you dig it?
Yes I can
Every car reviewer isn't a car reviewer, they're a sports car reviewer. "I don't like it because it isn't sporty... this isn't what I would buy... I miss manuals..." I've never seen a "comfy drive" reviewer. Like really, have you ever heard a youtuber dog a car for being too sporty? Only one type of driver is drawn to making these videos. It's not bad, but it is weird.
This will be perfect for driving to the grocery store in the morning to get my wife's boyfriend some eggs.
They unveiled like 5 different Crowns and North America got the ugliest one.
Why is it ugly?
Agreed! I live/ work here in Japan and saw the Crown SUV and it was absolutely beautiful. Crown is a luxury brand of Toyota.
I like the crown sedan 😅not everyone wants an suv 😢 ugly look @ teslas.....
Never thought the crown would have an identity crisis. What a time to be in.
It's 2023. So much identity crisis to be found.
Time for an abdication.
@@twinturborayThe Crown has been the same for a long time, dude. I’m sure he means style-wise.
first Crown that got me confused was the 2012ish Crown Athlete with its sport Lexus-esque style, unlike this one it did look good for me
Just wait til' you see the new Skyline....it is even worse.
Toyota has several different Crown models, one that looks like a crossover with hatch. I don't know why they brought the ugly, weird looking sedan to the US. They "un-weirded" the Prius only to double down on the Avalon/Crown in the oddball styling.
Great engineering but no one is buying them.
I've been waiting for this review (I've been driving the new Crown in Japan, the 2.4l turbo - maxed out trim - since this Feb). One thing is that I actually switched from Lexus ES, and had RX 4th, and RX 3rd gens before that (all maxed out hybrid versions). So I kinda know a bit about Lexus. I'd say Crown is actually very very close to ES in terms of comfort. But that's about where comparisons end really. These are generation apart (except for the platform, I guess). Toyota Safety Sense 3 is leaps and bounds above Lexus safety system (which is TSS 2.5). The navigation is so much better. The drive train - and one would really have to be into fuel efficiency to go with 2.5L hybrid in Crown - so yes, the drive train 2.4L turbo, 6-speed real transmission, all-time AWD, the 340hp (compare to ES… I think 180 or 216?… was it?…), it just drives so much better with so much less stress on highways. Sure this is kinda sorta preview of the next ES, but look at RX prices - we can't really expect new ES will be in the same price range as the Crown, it'll likely be considerably more expensive. I also don't think they'll go with the new AWD hybrid system there (probably just because there's no space to have it, if not for that reason alone). I loved my ES, LOVED IT. I love my Crown. Would I take one over another? This is complicated (I mean I took Crown over ES, but that's not what I'm talking about). ES is so much more kinda plushy, interior is better, the ride quality of sedan form factor is more relaxing in general, less body roll, that kind of stuff. Also ES has so many things Toyota has "saved" on in the Crown you won't notice, initially at least. Such as exhaust gas sensors flipping your HVAC automatically from outside intake to recirculation, the lack of polarized side mirrors (the rear one is digital, so that's fine), the lack of the TPMS ffs! Lack is interior illumination (as minimal as it was in the ES). Crown, on the other side, it technically so much more advanced. The 2.4L turbo drive train is fantastic. All the safety systems are great, way way way above ES (new RX has the same stuff though, and so would be the new ES - at the new price). I like the form factor, but I look at my old ES photos and I like that just as much (sometimes more, sometimes less than the Crown). Oh… talking about tech - the steering wheel is Crown is actually touch-sensitive, meaning you can just touch it for the car to keep holding the line in auto-cruise (vs older system which required you to put some force - otherwise the system would yell at you that you are not holding the wheel even THOUGH you WERE holding the goddamn wheel). So I mean… Do you want a Lexus quality ride, with Lexus RX 500h+ Sport whatever that new model is called drive train? At much less price? This is the car for you. I wouldn't go with the standard hybrid for this one. But I mean… that shouldn't be bad - you'll get 1000km per tank on a highway, no probs, with the standard hybrid. So duh. Oh! And did I mention rear wheel steering on all models? And how about the pro-active driving assist (it's a god-sent in city traffic). So I mean, this review - for me as an owner - felt a bit too shallow vs the normal content of this channel, but hey, still nice to hear the thoughts, appreciate everything. Also, one thing I totally agree on is that the fucking audio system sucks. I eventually had to replace all speakers and add an amp, because I couldn't get over what I was getting in the "toyota premium audio" package comparing to what I had in ES with Mark Levinson (which ended up costing me half of what I paid on Crown audio refinement to make it sound just about as good - speakers placements aside). Anyways. A wall of text, hopefully will help someone. Thanks for reviews and all that stuff :)
Dude no one wants to read an essay.
@@razorraysolarsavings72sorry for giving your attention span such a harsh task dude 🤣 must’ve been real tough. 💦
The wall is text was very helpful and I appreciate the comparison from someone who owned both cars and not just reading spec sheets.
I wish more comments were like this.
The made in Japan factor is very important but I still don't get why the Crown Sport wasn't exported. That will certainly have been an easier sell.
Yes it would have been an easier sell, because it's a better car.
They may bring it at a later date.
Ive sat in one. Very nice cabin. This drive report is just what I would expect. I like it. I'd like one.
I can remember the 70s when the Toyota Crown and Mark2 were my dream cars but i was only in my teens, so looking was all i could do. I miss those cars.
Ah the 70's! Had a 65 GTO in 1973 (Junior in high school) with the 389 cu in motor. That was the last (kind of) quick car I've owned, and now I'm looking for something that is reliable but also in the mid to low 13's (quarter mile.)
Great work as always. Would be very interesting if you guys would do a docu-film on the differences in your experience of where cars are built, as in Made in Japan or Germany VS Mexico or USA, etc.
My local dealer has a price adjustment of -$2995 on an XLE model. ( It's 7/17/23, area code 53188. ). Great video as always; my favorite review channel especially when you guys are talking together.
area code? ROFL...
That's a bad, bad sign for this car's future.
Area code 53188 is for a Nigerian Prince's palace.
That's your zip code btw, area code is the first 3 digits of a phone number
For almost every car out there, “fully loaded” means: Throw your money away for nothing.
Looks like my shaver and Dustbuster hooked up with each other.
Let me say again that I love that you review the audio systems. As someone who values good sound quality and will not buy a car with a crappy stereo I now know that if I want in on this Toyota platform I’ll stick with the Lexus ES with the Mark Levinson system. Despite that I heard about the sound system at the end of the interior discussion I still watched the whole video because wanted to hear about how it handles on the road.
Echoing this. It’s a very important component.
Mark said this is not the car for audio enthusiasts, which sounds hard-exclusionary. Is audio system customizing not a thing anymore in these modern times?
Like, if it is bass heavy, can that not be equalized out with all the modern fancy computer tech? Kinda suggests it is a problem with the speakers, and those should be replaceable, if there are still compatible aftermarket ones.
Mr Goose I'm not sure exactly what's changed but the picture quality is insane. Not sure if it's a new camera or more editing but this video looks insane, and I'm just viewing at 1080p. Honestly a lot of the b roll looks like Toyota hired someone to shoot it for advertising. Great job honestly
you're probably watching the video with HDR
I agree, it's looking good. I see a little more bokeh, I wonder if they are using a DSLR or something to record.
It’s HDR. It’s in the video resolution settings.
I'm probably one of only a few people in Canada who actually own a Crown Platinum with the Hybrid Max powertrain. I've had it for about a month now. There is no way I would've bought the two-tone paint version. I opted for a uniform magnetic dark gray, and to me anyways, it looks fantastic. Had a few nice compliments and questions from strangers, because it really doesn't look like anything else out there, especially from Toyota. It's an absolute gem of a ride. While I agree, if mileage and traffic heavy commutes are your reality, the XLE or Limited would be the more logical option, the Hybrid Max really does make it a different driving experience. I tested a Limited before going with the Hybrid Max and the difference in power, especially with a car with this much heft, is noticeable. Nobody would confuse this as a Sport sedan, I get that, but the Hybrid Max really does give this vehicle enough power to make driving it a bit more lively and engaging. Toyota is trying something new here, if a Crossover is typically more SUV than Sedan, then what on that spectrum is more Sedan than SUV? Enter the Crown. Toyota is experimenting with this to see if there are any buyers that might want a more Sedan-like vehicle than your typical Crossover but still give you a few things like extra ground clearance, some ride height, a lifted appearance, great visibility, ease of getting in and out and a spacious overall feel that separates it from a regular typical Sedan. They won't sell many to be sure, but will they sell enough to keep it around for a awhile? I don't know, but as someone who found it compelling enough to actually get one as my new daily, I can honestly say it's been a fantastic ride so far. In a world where most automakers are playing it safe and not pushing the boundaries much, kudos to Toyota for actually trying something different and bringing something new to the market, that success or failure aside, is truly an excellent product.
I saw one in person recently and it looks really good for a Toyota. I almost thought it was a BMW or Mercedes product. Really luxurious looking
plastic is not luxury
@@reglimulla8270 Once Brent hits $200/bbl, plastic is luxury lol
The Crown Sport is a real beauty, seems like Japan is keeping it for themselves sadly.
Yes unfortunately
All the other 3 were better looking than this one 😂
The Sport is like an SUV Supra
The Estate is the most practical of them all
The Sedan is, oooff, class. But still a Toyota.
American market is over saturated with choices it would be nice to have all 4 crowns here. Toyita can’t fulfill the demand for its current vehicles so no way they’ll add 3 more fringe models
@@phrodendekia the sedan is the Murai
I wish we got the Crown sedan that was in the press release. Looks amazing.
Mark wears his BK Crown at Arby’s.
Did you say this will become a Lexus in future iterations? Interior styling kinda heavy and not luxurious to my eye.
I lusted after one of these for over a year when I first saw they were coming out. I thought the Platinum hit everything I wanted from comfort, power, and convenience...but...the price was way into ES350 territory. The Limited seems like the best value if you don't need the power though. The 21" wheels are a big WTF for me as well, especially for a daily. First thing I was planning on doing was getting the lower trim 19" wheels. Sidewalls FTMFW! Finally the day of truth arrived when they started getting in stock. The local Toyota dealer had $5k of markup before the additional markup for tint, nitrogen, and stripes (barf). That is what finally killed it for me. I picked up a 1 owner '19 ES350 Ultra Luxury for $36k and couldn't be happier. Less complexity, great power, low NVH even with the crappy Michelin Energy tires. And the cost savings allows me to go on more road trips which this ES just absolutely excels at. It's everything I wanted. Which is a shame as I still have a weak spot for the Crown Platinum but not at MSRP let alone $5k+ over MSRP. I also considered a '23 Accord Touring Hybrid (I love that meteorite gray metallic) but again the dealer (different chain here locally too) had insane markups, and the lightly used ES came out cheaper again, even without said markups. At this point if I get rid of this ES for another daily it will be a '23+ ES350 Ultra Luxury for the wireless android auto update.
Totally agree with what you just stated. I'm gonna look at the ES as well.
Thank you for talking about the audio system! It's often overlooked in reviews and plays an important part in comfort.
What car manufacturers ultimately overlook is the fact that by now in the 21st is a powered open and close engine roof and glove box that should come standard with everything automobile being made today. That would be the ultimate game changer in car manufacturing.
I like the way the crown looks personally
Same. I'd love to see it in that sheetrock-grey color from the Camry, but with the black accents.
Belt line is too high and windows too small. Reduces visibility and makes car look fat and ugly.
@@johnkonde1975that’s the most common design trend of the last decade, so it must work for some people.
@@austin67605They have to so it will meet side impact regulations
Your wife's boyfriend would come back if you bought one these
That joke makes no sense
@@Jykobe491 you didn't buy the Lexus is500 so your wife's boyfriend never left (you haven't been around on this channel much)
Just this morning I pulled up to a parked all white Crown and I thought based on looks alone it was pretty awesome looking!
It's funny how "the future of sedans" is exactly the same kind car as the future of coupes, minivans, wagons and muscle cars: a heavy blob-shaped crossover with compromised headroom and cargo space for no advantage whatsoever.
Right? When automakers become a slave to fashion at the expense of functionality 😞
Can you guys review the Crown Limited? I think that trim level makes the most sense!
The best thing about it is getting a glimpse of some of the things Toyota will do in the future. Personally, I think it's hideous and I don't understand the value proposition. I agree many people cross-shopping this thing would end up buying an ES.
I don't swallow this
That thing is so damn ugly! Just awful. Japan got the good looking Crown and we get this junk. Damn this thing is gonna flop hard. Almost feels like the old Accord Crosstour that was a major flop. I don't care if it's a Toyota and it will last forever, it's still ugly!
They would sell more of these if they made it a hatchback. The trunk looks tiny
0w-8?! I can't even imagine how thin that oil is gonna be during a hot summer.
This is a great GT car. I’m personally sick of SUVs and this has the same power train and suspension as Lexus RX 500h for 20k less.
Fun fact, Camry comes from the Japanese word "kamuri" which means crown!
So does Corolla. It means little crown.
Thank you guys for making all these wonderful videos over the years, you two never cease to amaze.
The Nissan Altima driving off the road made my day.
there's quite a lot of European car makers that released a model like this in the past 2 years
Name some?
The Citroen C4 is similar
@@mikemayers8672 bmw had 6 series gt for years
Peugeot 408
Citroen C5X
who remembers Honda Crosstour and ZDX
Great Review. I was strongly considering one of these until the pricing was released especially for the hybrid max. I went with a 23 Venza Limited and it gets great fuel economy in real world driving.
I like it: someone has to make a Buick Park Avenue. Maybe part of the value proposition is that outside large urban areas, Lexus dealerships are few and far between while Toyota is more common.
I remember that car - my parents almost bought one back in the day.
Someone does make a Buick Park Avenue. It's called the Lexus ES.
It is a hard sell compared to the ES, unless Lexus goes for way over MSRP.
Also look at that nissan at 13:56
Lexus ES does not offer the hybrid max engine nor 4WD, except on the slow ES250. The next gen ES should have similar powertrain as the Crown.
Peak Altima Behavior
Thanks for the timestamp - I was going to have to re-watch the video to find this. Hilarious.
Just wandered through a few listings, a lot of dealers are putting $3K under MSRP on the top spec models. At $50K, they finally reached the point where Toyota buyers say what?
Ill give it credit just for at least trying to be something a bit different.
I got one sitting in the garage since early March,I don’t like the loud engine sound it makes when it switches from Hybrid…It think it has maybe 1500km/932 miles,My wife takes it out once in a blue,me as well if I just want to start it up and go run a few errands….Yeah I don’t think you’ll see many around same as the Avalon,solid car though.
I am here for it. Thanks for the great, detailed review!
I wouldn’t buy it but I don’t hate the looks it’s at least interesting.
The ground clearance for the Crown is 5.8". The ground clearance of the Toyota Camry is 5.7". I think that's ridiculous. I was looking forward to the Crown but what's the point? It should have at least 7" if not more.
I see this one with one tone color and it's beautiful . One tone color suitable with it
I like it but my wife - who is the customer for this sort of thing - wants an SUV.
As a Lexus owner, I don't understand the value proposition with the Crown. Way too expensive -- you'd be better off buying a Lexus for about the same price.
You’re not getting a new Lexus for 40k. Crown base model rides like a Lexus and is plenty big if you need room
@@mikemayers8672the Crown isn’t even a hatchback, despite its design screaming hatchback, it’s still a sedan, which means it’s not as practical as it appears to be. It also has less trunk space and interior room than the Avalon. So why did they replace the Avalon anyway? They could have just redesigned the Avalon and updated the powertrains, and if Toyota really wanted the Crown in North America, why didn’t they just rename the Avalon the Crown? They didn’t have to kill the Avalon and replace it with this stupid thing.
@@mikemayers8672 A brand new 2024 Lexus ES 250 starts at $43K without dealer markups -- yea, I think I would rather spend a few extra grand and get the Lexus.
@@zoomzoom3839 Totally agree with you. And personally I liked the latest gen Avalon, I thought it was sharp. The Crown just doesn't make any sense to me.
@@mikemayers8672UX, IS, ES can all be had at your pricepoint, although the former two are not the same size class. Might be good to qualify your statement... although I'm not sure what you'd compare this to.
It's a boat, first year of production with a brand new complicated drive train. It only misses suicidal doors, or does it?
Agreed the lower trim engine is the one to get. XLE at 40k is a good value
Is it....?
With all the current markups, taxes, and inventory issues Toyota is having you will be paying the price of a Lexus SUV or an ES350/300h. Not worth it.
40K for a stripped down Toyota SEDAN is good value? Yikes. The top trim being 55K is just laughable.
I really doubt Americans are going to be all over a $42k car with cloth seats.
This is not a good value. Except now that prices are prices are in the $38k range.
I have a 2021 LEXUS IS 300 AWD with the V6 and it’s the quietest car I have *ever* experienced. It’s a very luxurious car. When you wring out the engine it sounds truly magnificent. It would be nice to add an exhaust with an adjustable gate to quiet things down. HOWEVER it only gets 20 MPG for NORMAL driving. BUT, it’s a lovably spirited vehicle who makes you feel safe and coddled.
Should have made it a liftback / sportback like the A7 ..
I think this will actually do relatively well, for the time at least. It's weird, the mainstream full size sedan segment is pretty much non-existent nowadatas. No more Impala, Maxima, LaCrosse, Taurus. That means at least less competition from other brands. Also, although I think the ride height thing is super weird, reminds me of the weird S60 cross country, a major buyer of large sedans historically has been crotchety old people, and the raised ride height will appeal to those geezers for it's ease of ingress and egress. My step father's father bought an outback almost solely for the ride height.
And they're both ugly but the Lexus ES's interior is much nicer. I'd rather just take an ES hybrid
The mid-size sedans are full size. You'll find there's almost no dimension an previous Gen impala had an advantage space wise over a camry, accord, sonata. The accord is one of largest sedans on sale period now.
@@bigcjm Yeah, I agree, I think that's partially why the full size/premium sedan segment has started to dissapear. The previous gen Avalon is nice but it's really not that much different from a camry in interior volume or even preveiced quality so why would anyone pay 8kish more for a similar car. Similarly, for the last several gerneations I'd take an accord over the malibu, maxima, avalon even though it technically competes in a different segment
I would love to have a car with adjustable ride height so it’s easy to get in and out but rides low and sleek on the road.
If it was a hatchback and had better rear headroom, i would have been a fan
Does anyone really want a car shaped like it should have a hatchback but doesn't?
I really love this car and I have no idea why! I’ve never liked SUVs, and this for sure isn’t one, but I love this concept of a slightly lifted sedan. It just looks so weird and quirky in the best way possible.
It's designed. How many vehicles are amalgamations of marketing goals?
It's like a modernized AMC Eagle sedan or Outback Legacy.
When displaying the audio system testing graphs, could you add a plot that shows what the ideal audio result would be? For those not familiar with these graphs, it's no better than a Rorschach test. This one looked like the graph of my wife's date calendar with the pool boy.
There's no ideal, it depends what you like.
@@mitchellsteindler thanks for chiming in Captain Obvious. I might have been born at night, but I wasn’t last night.
If Mark and Jack can say a particular system is shyte while another one is great, they can surely do something to explain the squiggly lines for those whose lives don’t revolve around audio systems.
@@morstyrannis1951 my statement is not obvious.
Final thoughts on the Toyota Crown: “You’re paying $20k for a slightly better ride over the Camry but the exterior is so unflattering you’ll likely want to park it in a garage.”