Now I want a Rashomon cut of The Last Jedi, showing how TLJ looked to people who loved it, who hated it, and ... uhhh ??? Okay I'm struggling to imagine a third POV.
Definitely good to see more Force-using factions that aren't the Jedi or Sith. They're always more interesting. Even the Nightsisters, who have barely been explored beyond being "hubble, bubble, toil and trouble" dominatrix witches.
@@Thed538dhsk It fleshes out the universe. The force connects everything and yet we usually only see it channeled through one of two very rigid ideaologies. Of course other groups, cultures, species would have their own interpretations and seeing them is always interesting, for me at least. It's one the things I enjoyed about the High Republic comics, seeing Jedi try and keep peace between various force factions who all harbor a bit of resentment at not being chosen as the state sponsored religion.
@@Thed538dhsk I'm with the OP, it adds and fleshes out the force, or whatever different groups want to call it. It adds grey to it all, instead of it being the very rigid black and white of the Jedi and Sith. To look at it another way, Jedi and Sith are essentially portrayed as your heroes and villains. Adding in other force users is like bringing in the anti-hero, or scoundrel to heroes and villains. Someone that is somewhere between the two extremes.
The Nightsisters were really interesting in the 90s and early 2000s Legends books before The Clone Wars. They obviously weren't from another galaxy in Legends, that's a Dave Filoni original, and they had so much more going on. In the books, there were actually many different clans of witches on Dathomir, some of which exist in the new canon too like the Singing Mountain Clan, who are basically light side witches. If you want to learn more about other Force religions in Star Wars, I'd recommend looking into stuff like The Path Of The Open Hand from the High Republic books, the Ordu Aspectu from the old Tales Of The Jedi comics and the new canon Doctor Aphra comics. The Chiss Skywalkers from the Thrawn Ascendancy Trilogy by Timothy Zahn or even the Yuuzhan Vong from the New Jedi Order book series.
Mae had more serial killer and/or abuser energy than the abandonment issues of Arcane. She was controlling, actually tortured animals, and wants Osha to be the same as her as an accessory. This might link into the seemingly quite identity subsuming coven doctrine that was implied.
This episode hooked me a lot more than the first 2 which I still liked well enough. The internet has been exhausting about it, even moreso when most of the points being made actually do not matter or are plain wrong or missing the point (in that there is more to come in the remaining 62.5% of the show that can still reveal stuff because its a mystery)
The most consistent explanation in canon for Anakin's birth is that the force itself created him in response to meddling from Plaguies/Palpatine. Not that he is the direct result of their midichlorian tampering. Multiple creatives stand by that as the explanation and while the virgin birth will always be a bit weird to me, this is an interesting spin on it, basically showing the dark side getting their way, at least initially.
Except Anakin was indeed born from the force as a reaction to Plaguis and Palpatine’s meddling It shouldn’t be a mystery as to why fans are butt hurt about this show and basically everything Disney has done to undermine George’s narrative It shouldn’t be controversial either: Disney went and ruined George’s story by bringing the empire back thereby undoing the rebels victory in ROTJ. Then they proceed to undo Han Leia and Luke’s personal growth before killing them off, all just to establish a character with no realtion to them, albeit as a friend, blood relative to pupil. It continues an extreme reaction to the prequels and also banks on that and is also a product of trashing the draft George had writin originally for the sequel trilogy In other words it all displays resentment towards George and his work. Star Wars fans are not generally bad people as much as others like to say; were certainly no worse than other fan bases. We just don’t like when third party sources openly disrespect the creator and his vision and try to basically high jack it all under angry circumstances
@@KRobinson-ko1ne Very first thing the old EU that everybody seems to love did: bring back the Empire and the Emperor and undo a whole bunch of victories. The New Republic spent like twenty years warring against the "Imperial Remnant" until they finally threw in the towel and brokered some kind of peace.
As far as I understand Dark Empire was not popular. When I discovered it as a six year old, when the series was coming to a close, I remember dreading the inevitability that Luke was gonna die. Thankfully he didn’t; if he did that would have nailed the coffin shout on the franchise, especially if it took Han Leia and Lando with him Imagine if it turned out like this So you have Luke Skywalker turn evil, maybe Han and Lando get impaled by him, while Leia spends her time in a coma. At the same time you have Palpatine returned and he destroys the infrastructure of the New Republic. All so Luke can be defeated by a character who shows up out of nowhere, perhaps the character Nellith, who in one draft of the saga was Luke’s original sister. Anyway, that would have probably killed any interest in the franchise. My point is, as bad as the EU could be, they didn’t completely negate the existence of these characters before killing them off unceremoniously. I can think of a million other scenarios to make my point. Perhaps they make a new sequel to Harry Potter in which Harry grows up to be a glamour boy who treats his son like an emotional punching bag, passive aggressively gifting him his baby blanket. Oh wait… Or perhaps a new direct sequel to Terminator 2 in which young John Connor is immediately cornered by a spare T800 who guns him down, all to basically tell the exact same story again but with a completely new and separate character set to be the REAL resistance leader. Oh wait… You see where I’m getting at?
I enjoyed how the way they explained the thread, and the symbols with their hands and makeup, tied in with the celestial bodies (coming into alignment?) on the night of their ritual.
I’ve seen people say this is “going against Lucas’ original vision” and I just can’t see why they keep invoking Lucas like they know exactly what he’s thinking at all times. I don’t even know what they’re referring to when we’ve already had something similar with the Night Sisters.
...Would that be the vision he had when the films were originally released, or when the CGI enhanced remasters released into cinemas in the late 90s? Even if you ignore just how much got changed between initial script and shooting script, and then shooting script and what came out of the edit (because the original Star Wars film is a film that was saved in the edit) the versions we have commercially available - thanks to George Lucas meddling in his own affairs, no Disney involvement there - make some fundamental changes to the events (Han shot first, etc, etc) that defy the 'original vision'. George Lucas is one of the _worst_ creatives to defend the sanctity of "the creator's original vision" over because the person attributed with the creation of this artefact of collaborative creativity known as film? Kept changing his mind about how he envisioned it.
I do think that you'd enjoy certain EU books as there are other Force sects. Such as the Shapers of Kos, the Fallenassi, and Jenssari as examples. Unfortunately I don't have the titles off the top of my head that has the groups. Though the Jedi Knight\Jegi Academy series I believe has some of them.
I think the philosophical disagreement that the coven have with the Jedi isn’t in using the Force, but in viewing the Force as this impersonal law of nature that all beings are subservient to and must submit to. Based on what little we got from the teaching scenes, it seems like the coven view the Force as a web of decisions created by all living things and they’re learning how their active decisions affect that living web for themselves and the beings around them. It’s an active vs passive dichotomy and that would explain why Jedi view them as dark because the Jedi are pretty dogmatic in their insistence that the Force is not be used used for active gain (yes, Jedi use the Force but within prescribed rules). I sincerely hope they’re setting up the idea that the Jedi used the fire as cover to slaughter the coven, otherwise the creators will have wasted the most compelling dramatic option possible.
I enjoyed it. I agree about how they view the Force and describe it as a thread, it's neat to explore how others view it and talk about it. There is definitely more going on and I'm curious to see where it goes. I understand your points with the comparison to Arcane, which is awesome! 👏 very interesting this episode was
I was really annoyed by this one. Not for the reasons most people seem to hate it. But because it's a full flashback episode that has ground the plot I was interested in to a halt. I don't think this would bother me on a Netflix-Style release with the whole season available at once, or even if it had been one of the first two episodes. But for a weekly release, now waiting two weeks to see where this goes next kind of sucks.
I was the same. I felt it was too early to have this flashback. It would have been better to have this later in the series as a big reveal to the mystery. The lore changes didn't bother me. They felt like expansions and those twins are definitely not chosen ones. For one thing, we know the Sith rose again so they clearly did nothing!
I'm glad you're reviewing this episode. I've seen a lot of other channels say the witches are sith or with the dark side but that's not what I got. I saw a coven of empowered women who use the force differently, almost holistically, and are persecuted for it. And I like that the witches are good or at least force neutral and that their way is valid. I don't care about the lore the lore feels elitist and sexist and this episode is giving us a different perspective that makes us question what the jedis are up to. Also I don't think the fire killed the coven. I think we will find out what really happened.
I think that we seriously needed a SCRIPT DOCTOR, I mean the ideas are good per se but the dialogue is really bad, when Mae said she'll kill Osha I laughed so hard, it's just so plain and it takes me out of the fantasy.
Will be curious where how the other perspective flashbacks play out. Torbin took blood samples assumingly for M count. Odds of their blood having a "dark result" which they internally fight about or they confront the witches which leads to them all dying. Pinning it all on Mae is still a little weird so will see how they choose to make her the scapegoat.
I definitely got that the coven was up to something here. The main two mothers hiding the nature of the children or at least thats hiw it felt, raises questions. The main mother definitely had some very interesting and worrying choices of words when she's talking to Osha. So I'm curious to see what else went down.
I thought it was real bad. I went from being kind of meh on the first two episodes, but willing to see where it went, to suddenly feeling like there's no momentum at all.
I was looking for someone who was giving a positive review. This is the closest I've found so far. I'm not sure, even here it feels like it's a serious reach in trying to like something.
I don’t know why everyone jumped to super-special-force-birth and not half-of-a-lesbian-couple-bought-a-couple-of-clone-babies-for-her-wife-to-carry. I mean, clones really are a thing in this canon.
As someone who has spent a lot of time watching and playing and enjoying Star Wars media (from all of the Lucas films, plus the Ewok Adventures and Droids, the sequels, all of the TV shows including all of the Disney+ ones - though I have cared little for most of the now-Legends stuff outside of some games I enjoyed), I also don't care that much about the "integrity of the lore", at least not on any of the fronts brought up here. Yes, we get hints of the twins paralleling Anakin, but I'm definitely not weighing in on that until it's further explained (based on what we got this episode, and given it's still rather early on, I do expect more explanation), whereas I like the other aspects of lore expansion. I'm not entirely sure if Sol is outright lying or bending the truth or just misinformed, but I know he's incorrect, and I'm sure we'll be getting more detail later in the season (likely revealing all of the Jedi were more involved than we saw, even if it was Mae or someone else who may have "instigated" conflict or whatever happens) - frankly, my biggest surprise of this episode was that it jumped into a flashback, I was expecting most of this stuff would've been packed into a single episode late in the season, when they could reveal all the mysteries. That said, I like the warmth Sol brought, particularly played off against Carrie-Anne Moss' stiffer/sterner character (Torbin was definitely her padawan, based on how stiff he was, though he still had some warmth, like an older brother trying to fulfill his role), and the Wookiee was...fine? That also paralleled (to an extent) with the main Mothers: Aniyesa (I think that's it) is warmer but tough, while Korvil (pretty sure that's it) is blunt, stricter, almost like she's suppressing or badly expressing her own feelings of concern (and I detect hints of jealousy/envy toward the other Mother, due to detachment from the twins). Yeah, Mae does compare badly to Jinx, but I'll hold off on proper judgement until the end of this season (series?), especially as I didn't think Powder was written that greatly in the first third of Arcane, and it's more about the arc, so we need to see the whole thing (or at least more of it). Similar thoughts about Abigail Thorn in this: honestly, I didn't even clock it when I first watched the episode, but I went back to rewatch when Jessie mentioned her in her review, noticed and went "oh, for some reason, I thought she was supposed to be a bit bigger of a role, but congrats to her, nice to see her in this".
I mean, it's still a big deal for Abigail Thorn to be in something like this and have lines. Keep in mind she's a working actress, she's going to pump whatever work she gets.
@@BreakRoomofGeeks Oh yeah, I get it. Didn't mean to say it was nothing or that she shouldn't be proud, I think I just went into it with different expectations after it was mentioned in various industry publications, etc. Congratulations to her, and I look forward to seeing her in bigger roles in the future (like in Identiteaze).
I personally don’t believe that Jedi would police any other force users in the galaxy unless they are explicitly manipulating the force and trying to bend its will in a direction that would mean unbalance, so the episode perturbed me in that sense. Great video once again though❤
Wdym? The Jedi in the prequels were ready to kill sith on sight. Even if the sith aren't doing anything, it just so happens they were. Also why do the Jedi decide who is manipulating the force? Sounds like they have decided to become the authority on the force in the Republic as a pseudo government organization
Yeah…the Jedi aren’t the Spanish Inquisition contrary to popular belief And the Sith aren’t doing anything wrong? They’re trying to kill people by the masses and take over the galaxy I’m sorry but this whole “Jedi being the secret bad guys thing” is all baseless and totally third party made
@@Thed538dhskConsidering the Sith are hell bent on galactic conquest and the eradication of Jedi, I see nothing wrong with it being on sight. And the prequels portrayed the Jedi as being at their very worst, when they were most likely to be manipulated by a Sith Lord. Yet, Acolyte’s trying to convince us that the Jedi were even worse than that, actively oppressing other force users and likely slaughtering an entire village just to kidnap a child that failed training anyway.
Like you, I'm really enjoying what they seem to be setting up.. with 'witches' who can control the force: I think it's gonna lead back to a Jedi/Sith ORIGIN story..or legend. Doesn't bother me at all that these witches might have stated out as benign, but were villified by the Jedi, and this allowed the 'dark side' to begin seducing force users into becoming Sith... and that a lot of the Sith mythology is steeped in this witchcraft--- and that Darth Plageus had somehow learned of these witches and their ancient techniques... such as creating an immaculate birth. I like where it's going!!
Happy to see the Jedi in an even worse light, but I don't believe they just killed the entire coven to abduct one or two kids. I expected to find out that Osha had started the fire, but maybe it's an unreliable narrator and the big twist will still be that she's the 'evil' twin after all!
I think part of the point of this series will be to show that the Jedi have lost their way, leading to the collapse of the Order a century later. There used to be lots of 'Force'-using traditions that the Jedi worked alongside, but by this point the Jedi's increasing entanglement with Republic politics means they've become the state-approved Force religion and everything else is restricted. I liked seeing the coven of witches and comparing them not only to how the Jedi see the Force, but also how the Witches of Dathomir (including the Nightsisters) see and use it. (Incidentally, and sorry for being 'that guy', but the books and comics have been exploring other Force traditions and beliefs since the 90s...)
I like it the more I think about it. a lot of fans are bringing in their own preconceived ideas and/or just parroting what they saw other reviews say. maybe it will grow on people once it's all over and spelled out for them.
the witches do see the force differently than the Jedi but they also have a light/dark split between them and are prone to falling to the dark side. their amorality leads to immorality without discipline and compassion. you can pull a thread but you cannot push it.
I have the same thing. I also had the same thing with Andor. Almost every time a new episode came out, I'd be like, "I didn't like this episode as much as the previous ones". But what was really going on was that it took me some time thinking about the last episode and noticing things about it. By the end of the show, I realized that this was a pattern, so I needed to let each episode sink in for a bit. I'm feeling the same pattern in me here. As with Andor, there's just so much stuff I miss on first viewing, but then I keep thinking about the episode(s) and I just notice more and more.
I went from thinking “Ok this is kinda interesting” up to around the 10 minute mark, to shutting off the episode about 20 minutes in. You’re right, SW really should make more stories that focus on other groups beside the Jedi, but once the novelty of that wore off the characters were just bland and felt more like plot devices than actual characters.
There's a bunch of interesting ideas that doesnt have an experienced leader to exexute any of them. Some dudes are OVERLY critical of the politics. This isnt the end of Star Wars but Kathleen Kennedy needs to attach seasoned directors and showrunner onto these projects. An almost 200 million dollar television show isnt the arena for an inexperienced showrunner to cut their teeth on.
Disney is not responsible for the creation of the Nightsisters, they were created in 1994 and had religious elements like Wicca traditions built into them. Star Wars was also exploring concepts beyond Jedi and Sith decades before Disney even took over all the way up until they did. Hell, the second game of the Knights of the Old Republic has an antagonist who literally berates both groups and tells you are an idiot for being consumed by their ideologies. The EU thoroughly explored the Star Wars universe and most of what Disney is doing now is taking that work - that they threw away at the start of their takeover - and bastardizing it. As is the case here. This is not an exploration of the universe, it is just poorly constructed garbage.
The first two episodes felt really samey to everything else Star Wars, despite being set a century earlier. This is the first episode that feels distinctly different and ancient. And I like that.
I feel like this doubled-down on what George Lucas did with the Jedi in the prequels. I don’t like what George Lucas did with the Jedi in the prequels. I guess I don’t really understand what folks are suggesting about this being contrary to what GL did. As to any repeat of Anakin-birth-stuff… so the Sith stole the technique from witches and claimed credit. Feels about right.
I thought it was pretty neat to see a new faction's take on the Force and I'm kinda interested in seeing what happened to the cove- OH MY GOD THERE'S A BOOK!!! WE FINALLY GOT A MOTHER-BOOKIN' BOOK!!! ACOLYTE IS OFFICIALLY SUPERIOR TO BOBA FETT!!!! ..... I humbly thank you for letting me get that out of my system.
@@Thed538dhsk After every episode of Book of Boba Fett, I jokingly complained that it was horrible because there were no books in it. This episode of Acolyte had Osha drawing in a notebook and I couldn't resist the joke.
Mae has definitely been indoctrinated, but we're talking a Ben Solo situation here. The Sith have been twisting her for some time, amplifying her fears and making her more cruel - which is evidenced by her cruelty to the space butterfly. As for the character development of how/why Mae got to be this way ... the show hasn't even started on that yet. This flashback episode is Osha's point of view (it matches too perfectly to what Osha has claimed in episode 1-2 for it to be anything else). But any Ben Solo style Sith manipulation of Mae wouldn't have been something Osha knew about. We'll only get to see that, perhaps, when we see Mae's point of view. But even Mae's point of view will be a distortion - and likely even more distorted than Osha's. The third point of view will be closer to the truth. I don't know who's point of view that will be. Or maybe we'll see more than three points of view ... the original Rashomon had four points of view, including one from a dead character. So, I'm hoping the points of view will be Osha, Mae, Qimir, and Indara. Ending the series with Indara's point of view could be an interesting symmetry with the opening scene. However, I more expect to see Sol's point of view.
The Jedi are just fundamentally not interesting enough for all the attention they continue to get. So please, do something radical. This series, so far, feels like the production quality is very budget. Especially this episode. The world is claustrophobic, where SW is often good at the opposite. Also, those kids did a decent job, but having them be the focus of the episode was a little rough. This is just an issue with child actors in general. Spoilers: I hope the end is a set up for a mystery as you note. It really doesn’t work otherwise. The timeline is too compressed: fire, bodies, temple collapse… Idk. Meh. I want to like it. I think most things are just design by committee and focus group corporate schlock. Maybe Andor was an anomaly.
Extreme hate? The problem with this show is that if the sequels didn’t do enough damage to George’s saga already this show is deliberately nailing the coffin shut Leslie has gone on interviews how George isn’t the “true creator of Star Wars”. It’s obvious that she’s trying to give herself an excuse to basically do what she wants regardless of conflicting with his story Anyway this goes back to this episode: if you have the “not-night sisters” creating their own immaculate conceptions it’s clear to me that they’re trying help Disney patch up the hole that is bringing Palpatine back and undoing the Chosen One Prophecy As for Disneys direction in general I won’t hesitate to say I hated the sequels and what they end up doing to George’s saga and its main players. It made no sense, however, for them to go back to the useless era that is the Galactic Civil War Era when we know that the Empire is going to rise again Given Disney has proven to shape its media based on fan reaction hence The Force Awakens being anti-prequel basically it’s fair to assume Disney may do some multiverse thing and declare the events of the sequels part of a dark alternate universe. I mean it’s a franchise with immortal space wizards and semi-sentient robots: it’s not too far fetched Regardless Disney needs fans to tune in to their Disney plus shows and they know about the aforementioned assumption: this is why theiyre stalling as to whether or not they should officially tie their Disney plus shows with their sequels. I could go on for days how that would effect many of the characters they set up for the worst but the point is Disney needs to just quit stalling: shit or get off the can
@@KRobinson-ko1ne How did the sequel damage George's saga? How does this show 3 EPS in damage George's saga? When did she say George was not the true creator? Wdym try to patch up palpatine's return? It is too far fetched imo. I think some fans would like Disney to officially declare the sequels as non-canon. But I do think as of now it seems Disney is keeping them as canon. Why do you want them to revisit a divisive era of star wars or declare it non-canon? With how rise of Skywalker ends why not just do new sequels 100 years into the future after rise of Skywalker?
I don't understand why it's happening but it certainly is funny watching people losing their minds over such an unremarkable show. It's just extremely _okay_ so far.
I really disliked this episode for one simple reason, the characters motivations was really unclear. I still don't know why Osha wants to be a jedi, it really would have benefited with an scene where Sol interacted, maybe a rescue scene to give her a reason to be enamored with the idea of becoming a jedi. It would work to divide her better from her sister and family and better establish her relationship with Sol. I feel this show really overly relies on exposition to convey information which makes it difficult to be engaged with what is happening. I feel like the show works backwards from an interesting essay about the Jedi, colonialism and comparative religion, but didn't make these ideas emerge naturally from a compelling narrative.
I liked that they are bringing a different perception of the force beyond the Night Sisters, which I liked as well. I don't think these witches are related to them, I feel they are more gray force users than dark force users. They aren't out for themselves like the Sith Lords are. As for the twins, I guess the in lore name for them is a dyad. Which is the reason given for Kylo Ren and Rey's force connection. I know this shouldn't be a go to device for the Star wars lore , but I am fine with it here. Simply because we don't know for sure how they happened, it sounds like a different process than Anakin's birth. I guess we will have to wait and see. And yeah, I agree about the fire. Something else is going on and the Jedi are in on it. There is no way what Mai did caused the place to go up like that.
This show would likely have received a far more balanced and honest review if it wasn't shielded by gender politics. Objectively speaking it's a terribly written show and it's ok to be honest about that.
This should have been the first episode. The first two were okay, but kind of bland. This episode has a hook, which is something a first episode should have
@@mattpowell6291 Against my better judgement to not engage with this I feel the morbid desire to ask; what specifically did you dislike about the episode?
I watched The Acolyte last night and I have to say it is probably the worst Star Wars media I have ever seen. And I didn’t think anything could get much worse than The Last Jedi. The writing was terrible and the story was just not engaging. Also, this diversity and inclusion stuff they are pushing is so blatantly in your face, it distracts from the show itself. Why is there a need to send a message? I would rather there be a good story……not this. And speaking of diversity it is Star Wars. You have Han Solo whose best friend is a Wookiee. Luke Skywalker’s master is a 3ft alien creature and you have a strong female leader in Princess Leia. It has aliens and humans interacting like that is diversity. Also, the thing about Anakin Skywalker being conceived by the midi-chlorians was a stand out moment because it was special and unheard of. The force all of a sudden being called the thread for no reason. Star Wars has a lore and changing things to such an extent makes no sense. But the writing is just awful. Why write to push such an in your face message such as feminism and being gay as opposed to just writing a fantastic show like Andor and The Mandalorian. They were fantastic. When a good story is sacrificed in favour of a message, it just ruins a show or film. And this is a prime example of this. Being gay or transgender is fine, not a problem with that at all and of course they can be cast in tv and movies but it should not be done just for the sake of it and to basically be an advertisement of it. It should help the storyline flow and not distract from the story. Please just get back to old fashioned good storytelling. I have lost interest in the show and won’t finish the series. I have just lost interest in
As someone who was always a little iffy on Anakin's immaculate conception as well, whether it be accidental or intentional, having this spin on it with the twins honestly makes the whole thing much more interesting to me, especially since we don't really know the particulars on how they actually did it yet if we ever do. Otherwise I agree that the witch coven is probably the most interesting part of the episode in how they add a new perspective on the world we're used to, and the nature of their demise is still really confusing and suspicious
No offense, you seem nice enough and entitled to your opinion, but honestly it seems the only reason you could like this is because it "subverts the white cis het patriarchy of Star Wars" etc, etc... the dialogue is bad, the characters are bad, the plot is bad. TECHNICALLY that's subjective, but, seriously, it's virtually objectively bad.
“C’mon guys, The Acolyte will be fun! You liked Rashomon.”
“That’s not how I remember it.”
I see what I thought you did there!
Now I want a Rashomon cut of The Last Jedi, showing how TLJ looked to people who loved it, who hated it, and ... uhhh ??? Okay I'm struggling to imagine a third POV.
Oh thank you. Watching disney thaw out Kurosawa's head for a star wars publicity tour every couple offerings, really gets my goat.
Definitely good to see more Force-using factions that aren't the Jedi or Sith. They're always more interesting. Even the Nightsisters, who have barely been explored beyond being "hubble, bubble, toil and trouble" dominatrix witches.
Why do you like seeing more force-using factions?
@@Thed538dhsk It fleshes out the universe. The force connects everything and yet we usually only see it channeled through one of two very rigid ideaologies. Of course other groups, cultures, species would have their own interpretations and seeing them is always interesting, for me at least. It's one the things I enjoyed about the High Republic comics, seeing Jedi try and keep peace between various force factions who all harbor a bit of resentment at not being chosen as the state sponsored religion.
@@IcePhoenix295 it doesn't ruin your enjoyment of the Jedi as a group?
@@Thed538dhsk I'm with the OP, it adds and fleshes out the force, or whatever different groups want to call it. It adds grey to it all, instead of it being the very rigid black and white of the Jedi and Sith.
To look at it another way, Jedi and Sith are essentially portrayed as your heroes and villains. Adding in other force users is like bringing in the anti-hero, or scoundrel to heroes and villains. Someone that is somewhere between the two extremes.
The Nightsisters were really interesting in the 90s and early 2000s Legends books before The Clone Wars.
They obviously weren't from another galaxy in Legends, that's a Dave Filoni original, and they had so much more going on. In the books, there were actually many different clans of witches on Dathomir, some of which exist in the new canon too like the Singing Mountain Clan, who are basically light side witches.
If you want to learn more about other Force religions in Star Wars, I'd recommend looking into stuff like The Path Of The Open Hand from the High Republic books, the Ordu Aspectu from the old Tales Of The Jedi comics and the new canon Doctor Aphra comics. The Chiss Skywalkers from the Thrawn Ascendancy Trilogy by Timothy Zahn or even the Yuuzhan Vong from the New Jedi Order book series.
Mae had more serial killer and/or abuser energy than the abandonment issues of Arcane. She was controlling, actually tortured animals, and wants Osha to be the same as her as an accessory. This might link into the seemingly quite identity subsuming coven doctrine that was implied.
This episode hooked me a lot more than the first 2 which I still liked well enough. The internet has been exhausting about it, even moreso when most of the points being made actually do not matter or are plain wrong or missing the point (in that there is more to come in the remaining 62.5% of the show that can still reveal stuff because its a mystery)
The most consistent explanation in canon for Anakin's birth is that the force itself created him in response to meddling from Plaguies/Palpatine. Not that he is the direct result of their midichlorian tampering.
Multiple creatives stand by that as the explanation and while the virgin birth will always be a bit weird to me, this is an interesting spin on it, basically showing the dark side getting their way, at least initially.
Except Anakin was indeed born from the force as a reaction to Plaguis and Palpatine’s meddling
It shouldn’t be a mystery as to why fans are butt hurt about this show and basically everything Disney has done to undermine George’s narrative
It shouldn’t be controversial either: Disney went and ruined George’s story by bringing the empire back thereby undoing the rebels victory in ROTJ. Then they proceed to undo Han Leia and Luke’s personal growth before killing them off, all just to establish a character with no realtion to them, albeit as a friend, blood relative to pupil.
It continues an extreme reaction to the prequels and also banks on that and is also a product of trashing the draft George had writin originally for the sequel trilogy
In other words it all displays resentment towards George and his work. Star Wars fans are not generally bad people as much as others like to say; were certainly no worse than other fan bases. We just don’t like when third party sources openly disrespect the creator and his vision and try to basically high jack it all under angry circumstances
I always figured Shmi lied to conceal a truama. QGJ just a zealot who sees the virgin mary in his pancake 🥞.
@@KRobinson-ko1ne
Very first thing the old EU that everybody seems to love did: bring back the Empire and the Emperor and undo a whole bunch of victories. The New Republic spent like twenty years warring against the "Imperial Remnant" until they finally threw in the towel and brokered some kind of peace.
As far as I understand Dark Empire was not popular. When I discovered it as a six year old, when the series was coming to a close, I remember dreading the inevitability that Luke was gonna die. Thankfully he didn’t; if he did that would have nailed the coffin shout on the franchise, especially if it took Han Leia and Lando with him
Imagine if it turned out like this
So you have Luke Skywalker turn evil, maybe Han and Lando get impaled by him, while Leia spends her time in a coma. At the same time you have Palpatine returned and he destroys the infrastructure of the New Republic. All so Luke can be defeated by a character who shows up out of nowhere, perhaps the character Nellith, who in one draft of the saga was Luke’s original sister.
Anyway, that would have probably killed any interest in the franchise. My point is, as bad as the EU could be, they didn’t completely negate the existence of these characters before killing them off unceremoniously.
I can think of a million other scenarios to make my point. Perhaps they make a new sequel to Harry Potter in which Harry grows up to be a glamour boy who treats his son like an emotional punching bag, passive aggressively gifting him his baby blanket. Oh wait…
Or perhaps a new direct sequel to Terminator 2 in which young John Connor is immediately cornered by a spare T800 who guns him down, all to basically tell the exact same story again but with a completely new and separate character set to be the REAL resistance leader. Oh wait…
You see where I’m getting at?
I enjoyed how the way they explained the thread, and the symbols with their hands and makeup, tied in with the celestial bodies (coming into alignment?) on the night of their ritual.
JESUS CHRIST. finally somebody has a level headed take.
I’ve seen people say this is “going against Lucas’ original vision” and I just can’t see why they keep invoking Lucas like they know exactly what he’s thinking at all times. I don’t even know what they’re referring to when we’ve already had something similar with the Night Sisters.
...Would that be the vision he had when the films were originally released, or when the CGI enhanced remasters released into cinemas in the late 90s? Even if you ignore just how much got changed between initial script and shooting script, and then shooting script and what came out of the edit (because the original Star Wars film is a film that was saved in the edit) the versions we have commercially available - thanks to George Lucas meddling in his own affairs, no Disney involvement there - make some fundamental changes to the events (Han shot first, etc, etc) that defy the 'original vision'. George Lucas is one of the _worst_ creatives to defend the sanctity of "the creator's original vision" over because the person attributed with the creation of this artefact of collaborative creativity known as film? Kept changing his mind about how he envisioned it.
I do think that you'd enjoy certain EU books as there are other Force sects. Such as the Shapers of Kos, the Fallenassi, and Jenssari as examples. Unfortunately I don't have the titles off the top of my head that has the groups. Though the Jedi Knight\Jegi Academy series I believe has some of them.
🎶Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be Jedi
Don't let 'em pick sabers or read them old tomes
Let 'em be doctors and lawyers and such🎶
I think the philosophical disagreement that the coven have with the Jedi isn’t in using the Force, but in viewing the Force as this impersonal law of nature that all beings are subservient to and must submit to. Based on what little we got from the teaching scenes, it seems like the coven view the Force as a web of decisions created by all living things and they’re learning how their active decisions affect that living web for themselves and the beings around them. It’s an active vs passive dichotomy and that would explain why Jedi view them as dark because the Jedi are pretty dogmatic in their insistence that the Force is not be used used for active gain (yes, Jedi use the Force but within prescribed rules).
I sincerely hope they’re setting up the idea that the Jedi used the fire as cover to slaughter the coven, otherwise the creators will have wasted the most compelling dramatic option possible.
I very much appreciate your perspective.
I enjoyed it. I agree about how they view the Force and describe it as a thread, it's neat to explore how others view it and talk about it. There is definitely more going on and I'm curious to see where it goes. I understand your points with the comparison to Arcane, which is awesome! 👏 very interesting this episode was
I was really annoyed by this one. Not for the reasons most people seem to hate it. But because it's a full flashback episode that has ground the plot I was interested in to a halt.
I don't think this would bother me on a Netflix-Style release with the whole season available at once, or even if it had been one of the first two episodes. But for a weekly release, now waiting two weeks to see where this goes next kind of sucks.
How do you prefer flashbacks to be handled?
I was the same. I felt it was too early to have this flashback. It would have been better to have this later in the series as a big reveal to the mystery.
The lore changes didn't bother me. They felt like expansions and those twins are definitely not chosen ones. For one thing, we know the Sith rose again so they clearly did nothing!
@@Thed538dhskArrow did it well
@@jennybyford8071 I have not seen it. How do they handle it?
@@Thed538dhsk works to a part that links to the flashback does the flashback until it carry’s on to the next
You're passing wonderfully!
I'm glad you're reviewing this episode. I've seen a lot of other channels say the witches are sith or with the dark side but that's not what I got. I saw a coven of empowered women who use the force differently, almost holistically, and are persecuted for it. And I like that the witches are good or at least force neutral and that their way is valid. I don't care about the lore the lore feels elitist and sexist and this episode is giving us a different perspective that makes us question what the jedis are up to.
Also I don't think the fire killed the coven. I think we will find out what really happened.
I think that we seriously needed a SCRIPT DOCTOR, I mean the ideas are good per se but the dialogue is really bad, when Mae said she'll kill Osha I laughed so hard, it's just so plain and it takes me out of the fantasy.
Will be curious where how the other perspective flashbacks play out.
Torbin took blood samples assumingly for M count. Odds of their blood having a "dark result" which they internally fight about or they confront the witches which leads to them all dying. Pinning it all on Mae is still a little weird so will see how they choose to make her the scapegoat.
I definitely got that the coven was up to something here. The main two mothers hiding the nature of the children or at least thats hiw it felt, raises questions. The main mother definitely had some very interesting and worrying choices of words when she's talking to Osha. So I'm curious to see what else went down.
I thought it was real bad. I went from being kind of meh on the first two episodes, but willing to see where it went, to suddenly feeling like there's no momentum at all.
I definitely read the "dead" coven as a ruse to make the Jedi take Osha and leave the coven alone.
I had a feeling you would like this show 😅
well just look at him, hes their target audience
I scrolled down so much I found the target audience
I was looking for someone who was giving a positive review. This is the closest I've found so far.
I'm not sure, even here it feels like it's a serious reach in trying to like something.
I don’t know why everyone jumped to super-special-force-birth and not half-of-a-lesbian-couple-bought-a-couple-of-clone-babies-for-her-wife-to-carry. I mean, clones really are a thing in this canon.
WhTs Archane?
As someone who has spent a lot of time watching and playing and enjoying Star Wars media (from all of the Lucas films, plus the Ewok Adventures and Droids, the sequels, all of the TV shows including all of the Disney+ ones - though I have cared little for most of the now-Legends stuff outside of some games I enjoyed), I also don't care that much about the "integrity of the lore", at least not on any of the fronts brought up here. Yes, we get hints of the twins paralleling Anakin, but I'm definitely not weighing in on that until it's further explained (based on what we got this episode, and given it's still rather early on, I do expect more explanation), whereas I like the other aspects of lore expansion.
I'm not entirely sure if Sol is outright lying or bending the truth or just misinformed, but I know he's incorrect, and I'm sure we'll be getting more detail later in the season (likely revealing all of the Jedi were more involved than we saw, even if it was Mae or someone else who may have "instigated" conflict or whatever happens) - frankly, my biggest surprise of this episode was that it jumped into a flashback, I was expecting most of this stuff would've been packed into a single episode late in the season, when they could reveal all the mysteries. That said, I like the warmth Sol brought, particularly played off against Carrie-Anne Moss' stiffer/sterner character (Torbin was definitely her padawan, based on how stiff he was, though he still had some warmth, like an older brother trying to fulfill his role), and the Wookiee was...fine? That also paralleled (to an extent) with the main Mothers: Aniyesa (I think that's it) is warmer but tough, while Korvil (pretty sure that's it) is blunt, stricter, almost like she's suppressing or badly expressing her own feelings of concern (and I detect hints of jealousy/envy toward the other Mother, due to detachment from the twins).
Yeah, Mae does compare badly to Jinx, but I'll hold off on proper judgement until the end of this season (series?), especially as I didn't think Powder was written that greatly in the first third of Arcane, and it's more about the arc, so we need to see the whole thing (or at least more of it).
Similar thoughts about Abigail Thorn in this: honestly, I didn't even clock it when I first watched the episode, but I went back to rewatch when Jessie mentioned her in her review, noticed and went "oh, for some reason, I thought she was supposed to be a bit bigger of a role, but congrats to her, nice to see her in this".
I mean, it's still a big deal for Abigail Thorn to be in something like this and have lines. Keep in mind she's a working actress, she's going to pump whatever work she gets.
@@BreakRoomofGeeks Oh yeah, I get it. Didn't mean to say it was nothing or that she shouldn't be proud, I think I just went into it with different expectations after it was mentioned in various industry publications, etc. Congratulations to her, and I look forward to seeing her in bigger roles in the future (like in Identiteaze).
You 100% nailed it. Viewers do not care. Good job
I personally don’t believe that Jedi would police any other force users in the galaxy unless they are explicitly manipulating the force and trying to bend its will in a direction that would mean unbalance, so the episode perturbed me in that sense. Great video once again though❤
Wdym? The Jedi in the prequels were ready to kill sith on sight. Even if the sith aren't doing anything, it just so happens they were. Also why do the Jedi decide who is manipulating the force? Sounds like they have decided to become the authority on the force in the Republic as a pseudo government organization
There's enough cutting off of the lines in the episode that the republic law might have not stated a total prohibition
There are Catholics who still hold to a similar line of reasoning… Yet the inquisitions definitely happened.
Yeah…the Jedi aren’t the Spanish Inquisition contrary to popular belief
And the Sith aren’t doing anything wrong? They’re trying to kill people by the masses and take over the galaxy
I’m sorry but this whole “Jedi being the secret bad guys thing” is all baseless and totally third party made
@@Thed538dhskConsidering the Sith are hell bent on galactic conquest and the eradication of Jedi, I see nothing wrong with it being on sight. And the prequels portrayed the Jedi as being at their very worst, when they were most likely to be manipulated by a Sith Lord. Yet, Acolyte’s trying to convince us that the Jedi were even worse than that, actively oppressing other force users and likely slaughtering an entire village just to kidnap a child that failed training anyway.
Like you, I'm really enjoying what they seem to be setting up.. with 'witches' who can control the force: I think it's gonna lead back to a Jedi/Sith ORIGIN story..or legend. Doesn't bother me at all that these witches might have stated out as benign, but were villified by the Jedi, and this allowed the 'dark side' to begin seducing force users into becoming Sith... and that a lot of the Sith mythology is steeped in this witchcraft--- and that Darth Plageus had somehow learned of these witches and their ancient techniques... such as creating an immaculate birth. I like where it's going!!
Great episode, makes the first to even better
Happy to see the Jedi in an even worse light, but I don't believe they just killed the entire coven to abduct one or two kids.
I expected to find out that Osha had started the fire, but maybe it's an unreliable narrator and the big twist will still be that she's the 'evil' twin after all!
I think part of the point of this series will be to show that the Jedi have lost their way, leading to the collapse of the Order a century later. There used to be lots of 'Force'-using traditions that the Jedi worked alongside, but by this point the Jedi's increasing entanglement with Republic politics means they've become the state-approved Force religion and everything else is restricted.
I liked seeing the coven of witches and comparing them not only to how the Jedi see the Force, but also how the Witches of Dathomir (including the Nightsisters) see and use it.
(Incidentally, and sorry for being 'that guy', but the books and comics have been exploring other Force traditions and beliefs since the 90s...)
I like it the more I think about it. a lot of fans are bringing in their own preconceived ideas and/or just parroting what they saw other reviews say. maybe it will grow on people once it's all over and spelled out for them.
the witches do see the force differently than the Jedi but they also have a light/dark split between them and are prone to falling to the dark side. their amorality leads to immorality without discipline and compassion. you can pull a thread but you cannot push it.
I have the same thing. I also had the same thing with Andor. Almost every time a new episode came out, I'd be like, "I didn't like this episode as much as the previous ones". But what was really going on was that it took me some time thinking about the last episode and noticing things about it. By the end of the show, I realized that this was a pattern, so I needed to let each episode sink in for a bit.
I'm feeling the same pattern in me here. As with Andor, there's just so much stuff I miss on first viewing, but then I keep thinking about the episode(s) and I just notice more and more.
@@IsaacKuo it’s definitely worth meditating on.
I went from thinking “Ok this is kinda interesting” up to around the 10 minute mark, to shutting off the episode about 20 minutes in. You’re right, SW really should make more stories that focus on other groups beside the Jedi, but once the novelty of that wore off the characters were just bland and felt more like plot devices than actual characters.
There's a bunch of interesting ideas that doesnt have an experienced leader to exexute any of them.
Some dudes are OVERLY critical of the politics. This isnt the end of Star Wars but Kathleen Kennedy needs to attach seasoned directors and showrunner onto these projects.
An almost 200 million dollar television show isnt the arena for an inexperienced showrunner to cut their teeth on.
Disney is not responsible for the creation of the Nightsisters, they were created in 1994 and had religious elements like Wicca traditions built into them. Star Wars was also exploring concepts beyond Jedi and Sith decades before Disney even took over all the way up until they did. Hell, the second game of the Knights of the Old Republic has an antagonist who literally berates both groups and tells you are an idiot for being consumed by their ideologies. The EU thoroughly explored the Star Wars universe and most of what Disney is doing now is taking that work - that they threw away at the start of their takeover - and bastardizing it. As is the case here. This is not an exploration of the universe, it is just poorly constructed garbage.
The first two episodes felt really samey to everything else Star Wars, despite being set a century earlier. This is the first episode that feels distinctly different and ancient. And I like that.
I feel like this doubled-down on what George Lucas did with the Jedi in the prequels. I don’t like what George Lucas did with the Jedi in the prequels. I guess I don’t really understand what folks are suggesting about this being contrary to what GL did.
As to any repeat of Anakin-birth-stuff… so the Sith stole the technique from witches and claimed credit. Feels about right.
Just because it's something LGBT related doesn't mean it's good, this execution is bad, characters one dimensional, story boring, logic nonexistent.
I thought it was pretty neat to see a new faction's take on the Force and I'm kinda interested in seeing what happened to the cove- OH MY GOD THERE'S A BOOK!!! WE FINALLY GOT A MOTHER-BOOKIN' BOOK!!! ACOLYTE IS OFFICIALLY SUPERIOR TO BOBA FETT!!!!
.....
I humbly thank you for letting me get that out of my system.
Wdym?
@@Thed538dhsk After every episode of Book of Boba Fett, I jokingly complained that it was horrible because there were no books in it. This episode of Acolyte had Osha drawing in a notebook and I couldn't resist the joke.
@@Calliborc thank you
Mae has definitely been indoctrinated, but we're talking a Ben Solo situation here. The Sith have been twisting her for some time, amplifying her fears and making her more cruel - which is evidenced by her cruelty to the space butterfly.
As for the character development of how/why Mae got to be this way ... the show hasn't even started on that yet. This flashback episode is Osha's point of view (it matches too perfectly to what Osha has claimed in episode 1-2 for it to be anything else). But any Ben Solo style Sith manipulation of Mae wouldn't have been something Osha knew about. We'll only get to see that, perhaps, when we see Mae's point of view.
But even Mae's point of view will be a distortion - and likely even more distorted than Osha's.
The third point of view will be closer to the truth. I don't know who's point of view that will be. Or maybe we'll see more than three points of view ... the original Rashomon had four points of view, including one from a dead character.
So, I'm hoping the points of view will be Osha, Mae, Qimir, and Indara. Ending the series with Indara's point of view could be an interesting symmetry with the opening scene. However, I more expect to see Sol's point of view.
The Jedi are just fundamentally not interesting enough for all the attention they continue to get. So please, do something radical.
This series, so far, feels like the production quality is very budget. Especially this episode. The world is claustrophobic, where SW is often good at the opposite. Also, those kids did a decent job, but having them be the focus of the episode was a little rough. This is just an issue with child actors in general.
Spoilers: I hope the end is a set up for a mystery as you note. It really doesn’t work otherwise. The timeline is too compressed: fire, bodies, temple collapse…
Idk. Meh. I want to like it. I think most things are just design by committee and focus group corporate schlock. Maybe Andor was an anomaly.
Engagement for the engagement god!
I am enjoying the series. I have had to block different channels so I don't see the extreme hate.
Why do you like it?
@@Thed538dhsk In the words of Mad Max, "That's bait"
Extreme hate?
The problem with this show is that if the sequels didn’t do enough damage to George’s saga already this show is deliberately nailing the coffin shut
Leslie has gone on interviews how George isn’t the “true creator of Star Wars”. It’s obvious that she’s trying to give herself an excuse to basically do what she wants regardless of conflicting with his story
Anyway this goes back to this episode: if you have the “not-night sisters” creating their own immaculate conceptions it’s clear to me that they’re trying help Disney patch up the hole that is bringing Palpatine back and undoing the Chosen One Prophecy
As for Disneys direction in general I won’t hesitate to say I hated the sequels and what they end up doing to George’s saga and its main players. It made no sense, however, for them to go back to the useless era that is the Galactic Civil War Era when we know that the Empire is going to rise again
Given Disney has proven to shape its media based on fan reaction hence The Force Awakens being anti-prequel basically it’s fair to assume Disney may do some multiverse thing and declare the events of the sequels part of a dark alternate universe. I mean it’s a franchise with immortal space wizards and semi-sentient robots: it’s not too far fetched
Regardless Disney needs fans to tune in to their Disney plus shows and they know about the aforementioned assumption: this is why theiyre stalling as to whether or not they should officially tie their Disney plus shows with their sequels. I could go on for days how that would effect many of the characters they set up for the worst but the point is Disney needs to just quit stalling: shit or get off the can
@@Wintermute01001 I've never seen mad Max is it any good?
@@KRobinson-ko1ne How did the sequel damage George's saga?
How does this show 3 EPS in damage George's saga?
When did she say George was not the true creator?
Wdym try to patch up palpatine's return?
It is too far fetched imo. I think some fans would like Disney to officially declare the sequels as non-canon. But I do think as of now it seems Disney is keeping them as canon.
Why do you want them to revisit a divisive era of star wars or declare it non-canon? With how rise of Skywalker ends why not just do new sequels 100 years into the future after rise of Skywalker?
It’s trash
I don't understand why it's happening but it certainly is funny watching people losing their minds over such an unremarkable show. It's just extremely _okay_ so far.
I really disliked this episode for one simple reason, the characters motivations was really unclear. I still don't know why Osha wants to be a jedi, it really would have benefited with an scene where Sol interacted, maybe a rescue scene to give her a reason to be enamored with the idea of becoming a jedi. It would work to divide her better from her sister and family and better establish her relationship with Sol. I feel this show really overly relies on exposition to convey information which makes it difficult to be engaged with what is happening. I feel like the show works backwards from an interesting essay about the Jedi, colonialism and comparative religion, but didn't make these ideas emerge naturally from a compelling narrative.
I liked that they are bringing a different perception of the force beyond the Night Sisters, which I liked as well. I don't think these witches are related to them, I feel they are more gray force users than dark force users. They aren't out for themselves like the Sith Lords are. As for the twins, I guess the in lore name for them is a dyad. Which is the reason given for Kylo Ren and Rey's force connection. I know this shouldn't be a go to device for the Star wars lore , but I am fine with it here. Simply because we don't know for sure how they happened, it sounds like a different process than Anakin's birth. I guess we will have to wait and see. And yeah, I agree about the fire. Something else is going on and the Jedi are in on it. There is no way what Mai did caused the place to go up like that.
This show would likely have received a far more balanced and honest review if it wasn't shielded by gender politics. Objectively speaking it's a terribly written show and it's ok to be honest about that.
This should have been the first episode. The first two were okay, but kind of bland. This episode has a hook, which is something a first episode should have
@@mattpowell6291 Thankfully a handful of lore obsessed fans don’t control the media
@@mattpowell6291 Against my better judgement to not engage with this I feel the morbid desire to ask; what specifically did you dislike about the episode?
@@mattpowell6291 Thanks. I’ll file that information away. That chant was silly. Not silly enough to make a big deal over, but silly
I watched The Acolyte last night and I have to say it is probably the worst Star Wars media I have ever seen. And I didn’t think anything could get much worse than The Last Jedi. The writing was terrible and the story was just not engaging. Also, this diversity and inclusion stuff they are pushing is so blatantly in your face, it distracts from the show itself. Why is there a need to send a message? I would rather there be a good story……not this. And speaking of diversity it is Star Wars. You have Han Solo whose best friend is a Wookiee. Luke Skywalker’s master is a 3ft alien creature and you have a strong female leader in Princess Leia. It has aliens and humans interacting like that is diversity.
Also, the thing about Anakin Skywalker being conceived by the midi-chlorians was a stand out moment because it was special and unheard of. The force all of a sudden being called the thread for no reason. Star Wars has a lore and changing things to such an extent makes no sense.
But the writing is just awful. Why write to push such an in your face message such as feminism and being gay as opposed to just writing a fantastic show like Andor and The Mandalorian. They were fantastic. When a good story is sacrificed in favour of a message, it just ruins a show or film. And this is a prime example of this. Being gay or transgender is fine, not a problem with that at all and of course they can be cast in tv and movies but it should not be done just for the sake of it and to basically be an advertisement of it. It should help the storyline flow and not distract from the story.
Please just get back to old fashioned good storytelling. I have lost interest in the show and won’t finish the series. I have just lost interest in
As someone who was always a little iffy on Anakin's immaculate conception as well, whether it be accidental or intentional, having this spin on it with the twins honestly makes the whole thing much more interesting to me, especially since we don't really know the particulars on how they actually did it yet if we ever do. Otherwise I agree that the witch coven is probably the most interesting part of the episode in how they add a new perspective on the world we're used to, and the nature of their demise is still really confusing and suspicious
No offense, you seem nice enough and entitled to your opinion, but honestly it seems the only reason you could like this is because it "subverts the white cis het patriarchy of Star Wars" etc, etc... the dialogue is bad, the characters are bad, the plot is bad. TECHNICALLY that's subjective, but, seriously, it's virtually objectively bad.