1) Join my new FSA Education online community for adult survivors on SUBSTACK at familyscapegoathealing.substack.com/. Subscribe for free to receive my FSA-related articles or become a paid subscriber to access Community features where you can engage with other FSA adult survivors via Group Chats and Discussion Threads. 2) Purchase my introductory book on Family Scapegoating Abuse (Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed) via this Universal Buy Link, which includes links to Amazon: books2read.com/intro2fsa. *Access Dr. Erin Watson's comprehensive article on FSA and disenfranchised grief here:* www.scapegoatrecovery.com/2023/04/14/the-scapegoat-child-and-disenfranchised-grief/
I find it difficult to accept the fact that in my family system, the narcissist has mostly every family member on her side. It's my mother. No one supports me nor the abuse I've endured from her. Why do people not want to hear my side of the story? Also, I feel like many therapists I've came across have zero knowledge in narcissistic abuse. It's all so isolating. FSA was very prevalent in my family. I'm the Scapegoat. I'm the isolated and unsupported one.
Hi Emily, Jay Reid just published a book on scapegoating and narcissistic parents that might help you with your question. I address this to some degree in my book, Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed but my focus is more on the highly traumatized dysfunctional family system. Ultimately, in a narcissistic family system, the family is functioning similar to a cult - same type of dynamics - and everyone has "drank the Kool-Aid" - meaning, they have been indoctrinated into the false "scapegoat narrative" by the power-holding, narcissistic parent. I have a couple of videos on this - Look for the one on how Narcissistic parents create a 'scapegoat' child.
I sometimes wonder how she got everyone on her side. In my case, some used to agree, you are abused, especially in my 20s when some crazy stuff happened, but they are all afraid of her. I think the family broke apart more after I left. She lost some control after losing it over me, but no one came to get my side of the story which is on them. 10 years later they would not recognize me. That day will come for you too.
Same here in my family and extended family. My mom started early. The first incident I remember was when I was hospitalized as a 5 year old girl. My 4 year old younger brother who was my bff, sent his favorite “Teddy” bear to keep me company and connected. When I was released I wasn’t allowed to bring Teddy home because I was in an infectious control ward (why my pregnant mom couldn’t visit me). I threw a fit and was eventually cajoled into leaving Teddy behind with another boy who was sicker than me and staying longer. When we arrived home without Teddy my 4 year old brother threw a fit! Where’s Teddy? Mom or dad simply told him that I gave Teddy to a ‘sicker’ boy and left it at that. No explanation about USAF Military hospital protocols not allowing me to bring my stuffy home, no explanation of the fight I put up for Teddy or being persuaded to leave Teddy (how would I know that boy was sicker, staying longer?). I tried to explain but the damage was done. He was crushed, his most trusted sister/friend had betrayed him. He still brings it up *jokingly* from time to time. Add up thousands of such insidious 1/2 truths only a 4 & 5 year old would believe unquestionably and I can see how my siblings & I were trained in our dysfunctional family system. Narcissists are also very calculating, manipulative, & cunning. Long before the smear campaign they’ve already been buttering up the rest of the family or social group. Love bombing, sharing “concerns” about the target, making stuff up to make you look bad, claiming you said things you didn’t or twisting something innocent, loving even, into something dark & twisted to affect others’ impression of you. They’ll outright lie, spy, & take whatever’s yours.
Even 10 years later, you hear about people having lunch with a sister, visits with a loving family, even 70 year olds seeing cousins, and others, and you realize what you lost. It can be like a gut punch, seeing this huge part of life that is just gone. There's no getting it back. You miss what could have been and inside you ask "Why did things go this way?" The worse thing that malignant narcissists do is destroying having a family at all. Some of us who are childless etc, there's no family at all then. In my case I miss and grieve who should have been there, not the disappointments I got, the abusive people who gave me no choice but to walk. Another issue too, to function in society and protect yourself, this is grief, and a loss you must keep secret from all but the very close because people with normal families aren't going to understand why the scapegoat left in the first place or what happened. There's no public support, you're correct.
I do hope you can read Dr Erin Watson's article - I myself learned so much from it and it goes beyond the chapter about disenfranchised grief in my book. Link to Dr Watson's article here: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/2023/04/14/the-scapegoat-child-and-disenfranchised-grief/
Thank you for this comment from the bottom of my heart. This is exactly the situation I am in, and I could have written every word you did. This sentence in particular: "You miss what could have been and inside you ask "Why did things go this way?"" hits home, hard. So often, when I boil down everything, all the dysfunction in my family, all the destroyed relationships etc., what I am left with is just an empty feeling of 'why did it have to be this way?' Like you, I am also childless and at this age it will remain that way. I have nobody, no family (I was/am the scapegoat). This comment would be too long to if I got into detail but, again, I will just say your comment on the destruction not just of the relationship with the abusive parent but the relationships with everyone else, as well, the destruction of the *possibility* of a family. Lastly you are completely right that the vast majority of people have no frame of reference for this and the knee-jerk reaction from so many to hearing a person has no meaningful family relationships is usually deep suspicion and awkwardness. So we keep it a secret. A massive secret, because this kind of thing isn't a minor issue in our lives. So there is the shame that comes with that as well, with having a whole part of yourself you can't share because of what it would cause others to think of you. It's really very difficult to describe the level of dysfunction and destruction at work in these relationships and families. It feels too big for words. Anyway I just wanted to thank you for your comment. To hear and know that someone, even a stranger on the internet, understands that it's real and it happened is so valuable.
And I thank YOU for your comment, @Lucysmom26 - I'm glad you are here and if you haven't yet subscribed, I hope you do - a wonderful community of FSA adult survivors is forming here.
I'm the family scapegoat and the grief is unspeakable. When you're alienated from your family it makes you feel alienated from the world. And from yourself. The ultimate mind f__k.
I get it. It’s the worst treatment. Be kind to yourself. And hopefully you’ll be able to start to heal and surround yourself with people who truly love you. I’m sorry for your pain.
It is unbearable. You have a heart of flesh... Putting words on paper to pin the pain/betrayal can help us get through the lonely and difficult patches. And planning for and preparing meals help too. Gradually your heart of flesh will feel again... In time, fresh air will flow through your house again and and healing too. God bless!
I'm a thriving scapegoat that fled my family.of origin 12 years ago now which actually SAVED my life! Allow yourself to grieve the loss of what you had wished you had.... Feel every agonozing emotion as it comes up in order to let it go..... Never ever believe that you've done anything to deserve this.... Your big beautiful compassionate heart allowed you to stay much longer because you always had hope that things would change and your family miraculously loved you unconditonally such as you did them..... You came to this planet to finally cut the toxic generational and ancestral repetative cycle so that it can no longer be superimposed upon your family lineage 🙏 Be proud of your strength and courage it took for you to actually achieve this very tall order which only a warrior soul can achieve. ❤
Because my family of origin looks so "nice" and "good," when I naively tried to share my scapegoat story with relatives or friends, they would look real skeptical or annoyed, and try to get away fast. Your channel is a Godsend.
My sister is starting to have some awareness of her own abuse as the current scapegoat (Ive gone no contact but still try to get through o my other sibs- who I miss and love,) and she explained that that's how she felt, that that's probably why my other sibs dont call me back etc... they dont want to hear it because on some level they KNOW the truth and they cant face it, or dont want to, its like I have leprosy and acknowledgment is equivalent to being subject to catching it. Hope your situation gets easier, whether because someone hears you or because you heal in spite of it. Wish the same for me and all of us.
Catheribetagney. Yes I think most people think that people capable of doing this would look or act a certain way in public. You would think people would know this by now bc history has shown that domestic abusers, pedophiles, even serial killers often look and act just like everyone else, sometimes even better.
@@CharlotteCrummMarketing that's a really good point n something that likely afflicts some families. Not sure how old you or they are but I would recommend after trying or sounds like you already did, pull back n let them reach out if/when they are ready. I think the more they reject you the worse they will feel in the future n be too embarrassed n shamed to reach out. You don't need them to validate what you already know.
@brandyk I wish I had heard that earlier, I tend to push and I did and yet again no responses but I’m going to take that advice going forward. It’s doubly hard since I’m late diagnosed on the spectrum (which now kind of clarifies why I was the identified patient/scapegoat well before anyone knew that since I think they could see my inner weirdness and flawed early attempts at masking which made me a prime target for bullying.) but not having people to help you learn to unmask or reframe earlier memories etc. Just have to wait and see if it ever happens. :/
When Dad was killed in a car wreck by a reckless, stoned driver, Mom asked me to pursue justice, said that I was the most capable of her children. So I did despite my obvious scapegoat status. After two years and five months of careful lobbying to get the murder charge into court, we were notified that the trial was beginning. No similar murder conviction had ever been delivered, but the prosecutor used my argument to great effect, and the jury agreed unanimously. A sentencing date was set, and our family was asked for input. Respecting Mom's wishes, I developed a thorough petition for the maximum sentence in light of the convict's horrible act. So, on the day of sentencing, I was called into the courtroom with the various attorneys to discuss the convict's future. The judge told me that great resources had been expended to find a similar conviction, but there wasn't one, and he suggested a maximum sentence may give the convict grounds for excessive sentencing. So, the prosecutor and I came to an agreement and the judge approved, saying, "RESPECT THE COURT!" and he slammed the gavel. Walking out of the courtroom, I was confronted by a throng of friends, family, strangers and press members. Mom ran up and asked, "What did he say?" And I told her, "I can't tell you what's going to happen, we just have to respect the court." Then we proceeded to sentencing courtroom, where the convict was thoroughly, verbally undressed and sentenced to 25 years for murder. Afterward, the prosecutors, friends and family met in the grand jury room to discuss what would transpire over the ensuing years. The prosecutor then said aloud to me (in front of everyone), "You have a gift: most people involved in this don't know what it's about, but you do! It's not about winning and losing, but about justice! If you ever decide to run for office, let me know: I will manage your campaigns, and we will change things!" Immediately, Mom stood up and said, "It doesn't matter what [my son] said in there, he doesn't represent the family!", repeating the spectacle as the meeting went on. This was her behavior from the time I was a small child. Is it any wonder I walked way at 46 years of age?
This is both heartbreaking and a perfect example of the types of psycho-emotional injuries FSA adult survivors are subjected to, even when actively helping and supporting their family. One can only take so much, and then, one day, you're just DONE. Thank you for taking the time to share your story with us here.
Yeah! My family tried to have me criminally charged because I borrowed money to pay for emergency vet service when my dog had a stroke! I spent a year in court defending myself and when it was all said and done the state had to drop the charges bc they didn’t actually have the evidence to take me to trial! I stilm have to pay the state close to a grand to have the charges expunged even though they were dropped! My mother who called the cops and started this still can’t fogure out why i won’t speak to her! And my sister who is the real culprit sat behind the scenes with her law degree, egging my mother on! I don’t care if I ever see these people again in this lifetime or the next! They can have each other! They deserve each other!
You are worthy of all good things and good people in your life. As I say this to you, I'm saying it to me. I have experienced similar things. As others have mentioned here, love and support yourself always. I've been no contact for 30 yrs. I now know what mutual friends are and I only engage w mutual friends. And animals of all kinds. Continue to be gentle with yourself.
No matter what mom said, you did what was right and just for your father. That's what was recognized by others in the room. Take that recognition and use it to focus your life and make it more purposeful. There is a blessing for you in this experience.
I wish we could be each other's family 👨👩👧👦. We've all endured the atrocities of having to live the role of the scapegoat which has been SO hard to bear.
Rejected, shamed and blamed. No support, kindness, care. Nothing from my family, community. ALONE. I left the country! Living my best life, with my two best dogs.
Animals can be a critical aspect of healing from FSA, as so many adult survivors have discovered. Here's an FSA survivor resource list I put together in case you are wanting additional information and support: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
I'm a family scapegoat. I didn't really have to separate myself from them because they separated themselves from me. I have seen a lot of therapists through the years. I'm 62. It's just been in the last five years or so that I have known about narcissistic abuse. I learned about scapegoating a couple years ago. I can remember mentioning to more than one therapist that I was grieving because of the messed up relationships with my family. That grief was never really addressed. You sure hit the nail on the head when you said this grief is hidden. We can't talk about it in public because we will be told we're over sensitive, crazy etc. Or, some people just don't want to hear this sort of thing. I was a human punching bag and never really knew it. I felt like I was a punching bag at times. But my family was quick to correct me anytime I wanted to address any wrongdoing by them. I can't put into words how terrible I feel inside at times because of what they have done to me. And, they go around like nothing is wrong. They continue to live life to the full. My family is very materialistic. My siblings all have their own family issues now. They have bad or no relationships with their kids and spouses. Lots of family problems. But, they can take expensive vacations and live the high life. I could go on and on about this. But I won't. I've left a long enough comment as it is lol. I try to explain my family dynamics to my friends. But, I don't think they understand. I'm a religious person. I do my best to be a Christian. I look forward to the next life because this one is just so messed up. I do find solace in nature and in Bible study. I have a therapist. So, I manage. But, my family has almost totally destroyed me. I do not want anything to do with them ever again. Period. Thanks for the video. I do appreciate information that explains some of the craziness that comes from being a family scapegoat.
Thank you for sharing a bit of your story with us, Jeanette. Many people in this community will understand. You might find my book, Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed, helpful as well, and I also offer free articles about FSA on my blog: scapegoatrecovery.com/blog.
Jeanette, I feel like you wrote this post abt myself too. I am a Christian, my family has destroyed me emotionally. I pray and ask God to just take me, this life is not worth living. The scapegoating, and narc abuse has been daunting. They have stolen from me financially, been exploitive, and tried to ruin my life as much as possible. I keep asking the Lord to give me a break, to bless me with something good, so I keep waiting. Im too exhausted some days to do much of anything.. Im burned out of the struggle just wanting the basics in life.. Ill pray for you, please pray for me too! Blessings! 🙏🌻
Thank you for sharing 🙏 I always cringe when I think of the commandment of honouring your mother & father ... What about abusive mothers & fathers? And what about parents honouring their children? Things like this turn me off the bible, but I do believe in the Holy Trinity 🙏
@@onelittledropintheocean yes , I understand.. God certainly doesn’t want us to be abused, by anyone including parents. Its is perfectly healthy to distance oneself as adult children from abusive parents. I was torn over this for years, so what I did was confront my mother over the years abt her abuse, explained how it negatively effected me, and gave her opportunity to recognize what she did, with the opportunity to apologize .. and stop the abuse to continue having relationship with me. She remains at 89 unapologetic . and if given the chance will continue to cross boundaries if given the chance. I pray for her, and leave with Jesus to handle, but I keep my distance.. to protect myself from further abuse. Forgiveness is important as Jesus says we must do, with me it’s a continuation .. day by day. We arent to abuse them in term, but stand firm.. on what we will tolerate. Soon as those boundaries are overstepped.. I withdraw attention.. and state my feelings.. with … something like, “ mom u are over stepping your boundaries with me. This is not healthy for me, therefore it’s up to you to make changes, or I will continue to stay away. ( for elderly, I give care to her.. for her needs .. but draw the line.. and tolerate no abuse. Hopes that helps! God bless ❤️🙏 praying for you.
It's really so true the greif your describing. It's like your whole family has died and your feeling so alone , but it's worse then having them all die because the real truth is your greif is really that your whole family doesn't love you or want you anymore and your completely rejected and treated like almost a criminal when you know you've never done anything to them that warrants the way they have treated you and abandoned you. And you loose your extended family also. It's a no win situation and you don't deserve to be treated like that especially when you've spent your whole life loving and being there for your family members and sacrificed your whole adult life to being their caregiver when they were in great need. It's overwhelmingly hopeless feeling sometimes and is so cruel
It’s like being on trial for a crime that you didn’t commit and even given a death sentence. Rebecca did a video on that recently where she mentioned Franz Kafka’s works and especially his book’The Trial’. She said that a lot of family scapegoats can relate to his writing.
Hi Lynny, I hope you also read Dr Watson's article that goes along with this video (we are colleagues); it is very powerful. I know I myself got a lot out of it!
@@christar9527 Thanks for mentioning that video, I'm going to look for that one. A decade ago I felt like I was living Kafka's "The Trial," I'd love to see that explained in this context.
Being alone and lonely became "normal" for me. No family, short lived "friends", moving locations a lot, always searching but not knowing why or for what....
That scapegoat in the Old Testament is a picture of what happened in the New Testament on a certain when the sky went black. On that day, we learn from the prophet Isaiah, that the INVISIBLE Hand of God put on Another all the sins of mankind. Isn't it interesting that the Truth of that reality is so twisted and perverted. Puts a whole new understanding on what is, what was, and who is behind what is still going on. The scapegoat in the Old Testament died. But the scapegoat in the New Testament, died then arose from the dead. All of that doesn't mean what we scapegoats here have experienced, the pain, shame, being blamed for EVERYTHING is not real, IT'S VERY REAL. It hurts like he'll. But the Truth behind the scapegoat in the Old Testament opens the gate of a different perspective in understanding. Belief/Faith in the New Testament scapegoat allows you to see, to perceive, to understand. The journey of restoration still must be traveled. For me, letting scripture interpret scripture, opened up understanding. I know few will agree. I am not trying to persuade. But what I have seen cannot be taken away. Jane
There were two goats in the Old Testament. One was slaughtered/sacrificed and one was set free to carry the sins of the tribe.Does the bible ever say where that 2nd goat ended up?
95% of my grief was felt as a child. My collie dog would always come to me when i cried, & his long, thick fur soaked up all of my tears. I spent my childhood caring for my siblings. I washed diapers, changed diapers,fed infants, disciplined my toddler siblings, potty trained my siblings, cooked for the whole family when i was so young that i had to push a chair up to the stove to stand on to fry potatoes or scramble eggs. I functioned as the mother. Unlike my siblings. I wasn't allowed to have friends or participate in after-school activities. I would confront my mother about treating me like a red headed step child, & why she treated an older brother like he was a prince. She never had any answers when I asked her why she at least didn't try to hide her favortism for my older brother. I told her it was very hurtful to all of us, & I told her that she knew it hurt the rest of her kids, but didn't care. When I left at 18, I had no grief or homesickness. It felt like I was on a vacation.
Amazing you could open up to the grief at such a young age. I used to cry as a child on the branch of a beautiful Elm tree I would climb onto, sheltered by its comforting leaves. Thank goodness for the embrace of nature (and pets).
Same here. I was the "nanny" to many younger siblings and I genuinely LOVED them all. Mother was usually drunk or on pills or both and I did the cooking, cleaning, first aid, etc. for my sibs. I don't recall ever being a child, myself, because I was always just the "temporary help" for a mother who got pregnant at the drop of a hat but had ZERO interest in being a mother. 7 children were born in a short span of years, starting when my parents were 18. I was the second daughter born within a year of the first girl. My elder sister is cruel and selfish. She and I were close by force when we were young ( we had to share a room and a bed ) but she always hated the fact of my existence. She tried to kill me more than once and "stole" any friends I had by telling them how awful I was. She even scooped up my first 2 boyfriends by sexually seducing them and married one of them. He had family money, that's why. Long story short: people who scapegoat you don't love you. They can't. They can only use and abuse you until you die. Get away, stay away.
I am truely alone since walking away from my family in 2018. I realised I was attracted to so called friends who suck the nice out of me. Invalidated me. Denigrating my lived experience. I have cut a lot of people off. it is painful but necessary. I couldnt live another day putting myself last.
I had a friend that accused me of being cold and unemotional to her crying and suffering. I told her that I was afraid that if I started crying that I would not be able to ever stop. I am still cautious about “opening the floodgates” of my grief. There has been so much astounding loss from being a FSA victim. It takes tremendous courage to become a survivor because you have to acknowledge the evil.
I only recently figured out that it was not my imagination that my family (except father) loved hurting me, trying to cripple me. Left alone at hospitals as a child, shamed for things I didn't do, lies spread about me - the way they got excited insulting me, mocking me. I'm old, preparing for end of life. Knowing how evil they are & how they managed to sabotage me over the years, I realized I did NOT in fact benefit from being included & was actually fortunate my mother drove me out of house too young. I broke away, moved 1000s miles away. I made mistakes, but I survived. I did NOT belong in that family & was lucky I got away to live my own life. They told lies about me, my sister screamed how disgusting I was & how she hates me still. Why did I ever try to fit into that? Taking a different view of the situation was what finally restored my confidence. I changed from seeing myself as a victim, to a person who lived with people I respect, to be a success, to be able to hear their insults as germs I was never going to be infected by. The new view revealed how fortunate I am that I have my Dad's inner strength to escape from their toxicity. I will never be like them, what a wonderful feeling.
A powerful story of overcoming the narcissistic family system legacy - and the damaging 'scapegoat narrative' FSA adult survivors get saddled with. Thank you for taking the time to share with the community here.
Scapegoated people are the designated trash receptacles for people who have personality defects they are unwilling to address. What they feel about any unpleasant situation will be "your fault" no matter whether you are involved or not. They dump all their psychological and emotional garbage on you. Because they can. Get away, stay away. It's the only way you can live a satisfying life whether it's alone or with people who deserve your trust. Your family doesn't deserve your trust when they automatically treat you like trash.
It sometimes seems the grief is endless 😢 Especially due to the fact that we often get involved with the same personality types and retraumatized and scapegoated and either abandoned or forced to leave over and over again. 🤷♀️ This cycle is HORRIBLE and takes an ENORMOUS amount of fortitude to overcome. 🙌 No one who hasn't experienced it could POSSIBLY understand. The betrayal and abuse and lack of accountability in your very own family causes a cognitive dissonance that sometimes seems impossible to overcome. I read somewhere that abuse and torture (essentially) by one's own family or country or tribe is far worse and causes extreme helplessness - even more than when the source is an enemy or a foreign country or a warring tribe. It's terrible 😔
Can't argue with any of what you say, Kimberly. When we lived indigenously, we were dependent on our tribe to survive. We were protected BY the tribe as well. Family scapegoating turns all of this upside down. This is why, in my opinion, it is perhaps the most difficult form of abuse to understand, recognize, and recover from.
My husband and I have been together over 20 years but no one from my family knows we are married & there were no relatives at our wedding. I didn't go to either my under- or post- grad graduations because I didn't want to be the only one there alone. I chose not to have children incase I subconsciously treated them the way I was treated. There is a lot to grieve for for FSA survivors. I grieve for the 'normal' life, that most people take for granted, that I never got to have. Thank you for your channel and your work. Despite years of therapy, it's the first time I've begun to understand what happened to me.
Glad you're here, Wendy. You just reminded me of some of my own losses related to FSA that I had not remembered in a long time. The losses are great, indeed.
Sounds like me. We eloped to a JOP, since we both had been on our own for quite some time. In the Wills, Trusts, documents where I am named, my older GC sister insisted on using my childhood last name, even though I dropped it completely, and putting my married name in parentheses, as if I'm not really married because she didn't personally eyeball the marriage certificate. She didn't do this to my little sister. Also did not attend a lot of my graduation ceremonies. Was still in scapegoat mode and instructors, and some classmates were brutal. Also chose not to have children when I was younger. Miscarriages and stillbirth after marriage in later 30s. No live births. But not sure my mother didn't affect my entire endocrine system by taking something when I was in the womb, given by her doctor, that she conveniently couldn't remember the name. Ancient story....almost time to go home.... 2:15
You and me both ... I'm trying to get out of it. I need the Lord Jesus to help me here because it is absolutely soul crushing. This validating video may be part of the healing process here. These words of confirmation and validation may be the balm that finally cures the infection. I will have a scar, I will remember and know the pain, but at least the wound will fiiiinally be closed.💞💞🙏🙏🙌🙌🙌
It was for me too, for 70 years! I learned to take a Different View of sorrow, rage, despair over twisted cruel family. I now feel very fortunate to have NOT been like that family. My father would have stood up for me when I was diagnosed with Alzheimer's but he died first. I relabeled friends over my life (most have died by now) as my real family, my dogs too. I have pictures of real Family and dogs in my bedroom. I finally saw NOT being part of that family as Divine Intervention to help me find a good life. Learning to look at things from another view saved me from future self torture, I learned how to do it from a Rabbi who posts messages on RUclips. The stress of feeling like an abused hostage caused me lots of health problems. I survived & am embracing my neighbors as my real family, fantastic how good it feels to be free of toxic past.
@@DreamsOfFinland This is true.... my friends' families are NORMAL. Without them for a frame of reference, I wouldn't have been able to understand I had nothing to grieve, because the people I thought were "family" were not capable of love to begin with. My role model for parenting and family is now my friends with normal family dynamics.
I never felt any emotional support while growing uo so I learned early in life that what I thought or felt about anything was of no consequence at all . Multiple times when I was quite young my covert narc mother during her daily rages screamed at me that I had 'no right' to be angry or upset about anything - only her feelings were valid . By the time I was 14 I knew my relevance in the family was zero . I was there to support and validate everyone else despite never having these supports shown to me . Part of the parentification process I assume . Grief has been present at times but mostly the anger and loneliness of being forced into the scapegoat role in the first place . Better alone than near that sorry lot who will no doubt still be wreaking havoc on their own families as they repeat the ingrained abuse that permeates the entire family . Mostly the feeling of Good Riddance prevails .
This is my story. Family scapegoat here. 🐐 Right now I’m in the righteous anger stage. I’m mad as hell and can’t seem to get through this stage of grief. They ostracized me for 13 + years then came back to “help” me when I was diagnosed with cancer. Suddenly here they were... back again. Soon enough I learned my narcissistic dad & his narc wife were trying to find out if my will was complete and how they could get their hands on my assets once I’m gone. After they isolated & left me for dead all those years!!! 😈😈😈 I believe all the abuse growing up by my dad & his wife that continued well into adulthood (along with mistreatment by a half sister & extended family) is why I developed life threatening high blood pressure, pre-diabetes and metastatic cancer. When I stood up to the abusers they turned the whole family away from me. I will die with the legacy of being the rejected unloved scapegoat. What a life...
Maybe to them, but outside of those toxic and dysfunctional perceptions, you are the MOST sane, the MOST powerful and the MOST capable. If they were so great, they wouldn’t need to fake grovel just to get your money/assets. Imagine living that way? Needing to put on an entire performance just to gain something? If they were such healthy and amazing people, they would have their own and wouldn’t need to fake concern to get something from you. I am so sorry for everything you’ve been through and continue to go through. I wish you healing and peace. You deserve it 🤍
Same here. As soon as they found out I had cancer, they all rallied around me to appease their guilt. As soon as I went into remission, I suddenly became the bad guy. They went back to their old behavior of abuse, gaslighting and ghosting. If my cancer should return, I'm not telling anyone!!!
Leave them an apathetic letter and double-duty cmake sure your will leaves them nothing more than a baggie of cat poop. And all the guilt you can get even with!
as soon as my family (except dad) found out I inherited Alzheimer's they started to undermine me. Never one word of comfort, lots of trying to sabotage any care, told my adult kids I was insane, just brutal cruelty. My mother discarded (illegally) an agreement between me, my father & her to help me financially when I could no longer work. They tried to cripple me, sabotaged my marriage. Even cousins joined the maliciousness. The joy is great that I finally realized how lucky I was to not be part of their way of life. I survived a lot of stuff, I never became like them & my father would be proud of me for escaping. I am proud I am not part of that family.
My daughter was killed by a hit and run driver a little over a year ago.I have serious chronic health problems. I am having marital problems and having asked my sisters for emotional ( not financial ) support. The more my life has gone wrong, through no fault of mine, the more my three sisters ignore me. I have two children left whom I don’t burden with my issues and NO FAMILY. So devastated .
I'm so very sorry for the tragic loss of your daughter. I do hope you find support and comfort here. I'm also linking you to a list of resources I put together for FSA adult survivors. The facebook group (private) run by Rhonda may be particularly helpful: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
My family has never been there for me no matter how awful things were I have nothing to do with them I would not lift a finger for them no matter what was happening to them I was once told " match the level of commitment" and l find that a very good way to deal with them
My mom called me crazy starting when I was six. She never stopped and taught everyone to believe their was something wrong with me. I am 64 and was never able to recover from the ptsd. I don't trust people. I am not able to feel accepted in a group. Will this ever end? I don't think so. Disenfranchised grief.
Your experience as shared here mirrors the main thrust of the article I posted from my guest blogger this month, Dr Erin Watson. Here's the link in case you missed it: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/2023/04/28/betrayal-trauma-and-family-scapegoating-abuse/
I finally went No Contact from my barely existent mother, malignant narcissist sister (who ran the show), and two other flying monkey sisters. Six months later, my son was diagnosed with colon cancer. Throughout the 3 years of watching him slowly die, I never received one single word of comfort from any of them. So, at the same time that I was grieving the loss of my "family" I was also grieving the imminent loss of my son, my only child. That was my punishment for being the truthsayer. Ryan died June 29, 2021. He was 45 years old.
@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse The only reason I am still here is because I promised my son I would stay. I considered breaking that promise every single day. My first conscious thought each morning was, "Is today the day?" With weekly therapy for the past 2 years, and medication for C-PTSD and Bi-polar, I am slowly....very slowly....making my way forward. Thank you for recognizing the severity of FSA. It is unbearable.
I'm glad that via my naming this form of systemic, psycho-emotional abuse (FSA), adult survivors have a more precise way of describing what happened to them in their families.
What is most amazing to me is, in all the comments, of all the different webcasts on this topic of narcissistic or dysfunctional scapegoating, it's like we all lived in the same families with all the same people, doing the same things! There is someone who can relate to my life. Wow! I am so glad I did not commit suicide during the period of the darkest time of my grief when I first moved away from my "family tribe." I would have died feeling as though I was absolutely alone in this FSA struggle, as I didn't even know such a thing existed! At 62, I so thank God I am living long enough to know that I am not alone, and way better off now than I ever imagined within that thing called "blood family origin" that literally almost killed me. As always, thanks so much Dr. Mandeville. You, your wisdom, knowledge and understanding, are such a blessing to those who have so desperately needed it!🙏🏽💯❤️
I am 63, and I just found out last may. Of all this family system. And, it is not easy. However, I find strength in my spirituality. I treat myself with respect. I left. I have half my family there. Especially, one sister. God bless her soul. Now, they could call me stupid, sensitive, drama queen. I know who I am. I know that I am worth it. Treat yourself with self care. You are not alone. We are a family.
@@mcdanygirl Thank you, and God bless you too, for allowing Him to use your encouraging words at a most precise time of my life. 🙏🏽 In short, I just learned over the weekend from a sweet cousin (also a scapegoat) and a longtime friend from my hometown, that my little sister is having a 60th B'day Black tie Ball. They were both invited, I'm not invited, and wouldn't even know about it had they not mentioned it. And truly not out of spite. My older sister had hers 3 years ago, I only heard about it because of a photo. Over these last 10 years living away from them, by the Grace of God, and help of my husband, true friends, and people like Dr. Mandeville, I truly have been healing from all that FSA. If you don't have her book "Rejected, Shamed & Blamed, on FSA, you should. What a blessing it's been to me. But, when I heard about the Ball, I felt like Cinderella and her 2 evil "not step" sisters all over again, and it hurt in a way I wasn't expecting. Since I heard about it, I have been thanking God I recovered from that moment quicker than it used to take by continuing to live my blessed life with my wonderful husband now. And, here God inspired you to send this lovely message to confirm I have worth, I am accepted as family, understood, and I am not alone. Thanks so much, may God continue to richly bless you and every part of your life just for being such a blessing this morning! Have a wonderfully blessed day!🙏🏽😇💯
I've figured out that watching videos of therapists who know this issue well and talking to people in the comments section is really helpful especially during the grieving process. We are not as lonely as we think we are, there are so many of us out there, even though most people will not talk about it face-to-face!
Indeed - And this is yet another aspect of disenfranchised grief - The fact that there are few people who understand this form of psycho-emotional abuse, depriving one of appropriate types of support during recovery. Including social support.
The grief I felt - once I finally had completely burnt myself out at 53 was absolutely huge! I am still going through and reprocessing my entire life. It’s been horrible and still is-as you absolutely correctly identify-people don’t understand what it’s like, so it’s very isolating. I always knew there was something “off” with my childhood because I never felt part of the family. I genuinely thought I was adopted from a very young age. (Pre 4) and wanted to run away from home. Oldest of 2f and 2m, with a name close enough to my mums much envied little sister. Close enough to remind mum daily via watching my dad dote on me-like her own father did when he came back from ww2. Was totally scapegoated from my earliest memories, left London in 1989 as a 21 year old for Perth Western Australia and have been here ever since. My life has been narcissistic partners and friends, people pleasing 24/7, partying way too hard, raising 3 kids on my own-while studying and working-with undiagnosed ADHD. It all fell apart almost 3 years ago with a complete mental and physical breakdown. I’m now an absolute recluse-can spend days alone as my entire life has been pretty much spent “serving others” or fawning -just like I did as a child. I have zero left to give to anyone. I have a gorgeous dog, bought a little bit of land and spend days there creating a garden, my safe spot. ❤ Thank you for your videos. 😊
It's very interesting that you said you thought you had been adopted. For years, I TOLD everyone that I was adopted. Even at that young age, I knew something was very, very wrong and I didn't belong with those people.
Take good care of yourself. You are well loved by the universe. You are in the right place.... nature is sooo healing. I get such comfort and joy doing gardening myself. It is nature's medicine. Sending you tons of love and healing energies ❤❤❤
Thanks for your kind words ❤️❤️ it’s very eye opening and confronting when suddenly your childhood makes more sense. yet now it does at least I can move forwards knowing it wasn’t so much me; it’s a mix of historical trauma, birth order, gender, temperament and even the bloody name! 🤦♀️ Things well out of any child’s control. Sending much love to you’s ❤️
I actually grieved the loss of my four sisters, the scapegoating n toxicity was just too much for me. Thankyou for putting a name to this loss as I cried n isolated myself for over two years. Its now been 7years since I walked away from this toxic and scapegoating situation, I've learnt to finally be a free spirit learnt to stand stronger on my own and accepted I'm mot that bad crazy person they named me! Finally I found out since I removed myself from this situation they have turned on each other! Never will I go back karma is bliss!!
Appreciate your comment, I’m currently in the beginning stages of isolating & grieving the loss of my entire family (I was one of 5 daughters as well) I cry, SOB, every day & have never felt more alone but also a little empowered at the same time. Your story gives me hope there’s a light at the end of the tunnel. ❤
@@buchrisss thankyou for your kind words. It's not easy letting go! Sometimes you have to let go to find who you are. My thoughts n prayers are with you xx 🙏
I feel like I lost everything because of FSA. I was never loved, never had a career (which I longed for and tried very hard to pursue), never had a home (almost what you would call homeless at times) or moved constantly, never had a real partner, never had children and especially I lost my identity. I only realized what was happening in my FOO right after my father died (which was a relief for me because he was the head narcissist). It began with a phone call to a helpline. I soon had a vision pop into my head where huge, thick, very high, metal prison doors were opening for the first time in my life and I was stepping out into the bright sunlight. I was about 58. I’ve been learning about narcissism and narcissistic abuse for the last few years but I’m only beginning to learn how to heal from it. I’m stuck in righteous rage and feeling betrayed with some hurt feelings. I’m also very exhausted. Dr. Watson’s article was the most validating thing I’ve come across. None of the counselors I’ve had ever knew anything about what I was going through. I was just told by my prescribing psychiatrist that I have to see their counselor and that I have to educate him. I told her flat out that I’m too exhausted. I realize that my chances of improving my external life are hopeless but I can change my internal state. I could definitely use some help with grieving.
I'll make sure that Dr Watson is aware of your comment. I do believe she may also be taking clients, you might get in touch with her. I loved her article as well. 'Exhausted' is a most apt word - Having to explain again and again and people (including some Mental Health professionals) still don't get it is a special type of exhaustion, indeed.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thank you for your reply. I would like to work with Dr. Watson but she’s probably really expensive though right? Anyhow, thank you for forwarding my comment to her.
@christar9527 I can totally relate. We are not alone. Around 40 is when I started to really make sense of what happened and was still happening (by phone, video chat, etc), thanks to therapy. There's also a lot of righteous rage in me, it's been there for as long as I can remember, but only now know the source. Best of luck to you. May you and others like us find peace and strength.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thank you for that point. "Exhaustion" There is no better word to sum it up at this point ... I'm 55 and feel just like christar.
Just want to send love, respect, psychic support, and wishes for a lovely day to anyone who is anywhere in this process. It's huge. I go in and out and around. The nightmares are rare, my ruminations come and, better, go, I've educated a little support team. Seems like the abusers have sorta picked up steam since my going nc with their theatrics and false narratives but, I think, I'm getting strong enough....to fall apart a bit and begin to grieve. So thankful for everyone here!
My abusive foo defintely picked up steam when I went nc with them. I felt like an escaped convict being sabbotaged and road blocked. I'm so sorry you're dealing with that too. So grateful for this community.
@@karenbeukemaeinstein5073 yeah it's funny, you think they'd be happy right if we're such a problem. Interesting how that works. I once said something similar to my brother who was still criticizing me as he was blaming me n essentially saying I was ill while at same time saying he wanted to have a relationship with me n saying it's hurtful to him when I travel home to the state he is in but only saw my friends when I was in town. I said I don't understand if you really think all these things about me that you've said this past 2-3 yrs,why you would even want to see me much less be offended or hurt "
I read Dr. Watson's article. It is 100% what I am experiencing. I have given up on therapy. Maybe I do not understand how therapy works, but I never feel seen. The only support I have has been through your channel. Thank you. It really has helped. I don't feel as crazy, guilty, or confused.
❤ Nancy~ Have you considered working on your attachment? Not being seen is a trauma response. Work to become securely attached & you could repel Narcs etc. 🌟🌟🌟
@@taffytaffy1451 Thank you for the suggestion. How is working on attachment done? Is their a specific type of therapist or therapy that addresses this? I have watched videos on the different attachment styles.
Dear Dr. Mandeville, thank you so much for addressing this topic. I have been scapegoated for 70 years now and finally have some understanding of it. I grieve not having a real family that really loved me. I do NOT grieve the death of my mother, I am GLAD she is dead. Have not missed her for a second. When my brother dies I will have a little private party, the world will be a better place for me without him. It would have been nice to feel otherwise though.
I can relate to your feelings and I’m so glad you shared them because heaven forbid when I say those sentiments, I’m immediately corrected … “you don’t mean that!” Oh yes . Yes I DO MEAN IT!!!
I told my toxic family many times that because of them, I grieve alone! When I lost another parent, grief x10 happens because of THEM! I was their target. It took me one funeral, 7yrs domestic abuse survivor therapy, then my recent narcissist fathers funeral 21yrs later to Super Nova, Armageddon my family. My grief can have its very sad and rough moments. I live in my right now life and train my thinking to not ruminate about all of their awfulness. The truth never changes. Their ugly truth is no longer my problem. The other side of my grief is my relief! I am so enjoying my orderly quiet life today. Trying to re socialize myself outside my close circle is something I am not willing to do yet. Today is a holiday. It is very hard to shut off my memories. Their list of awful is decades long. I feel like I live with CPTSD. BEWARE! they will Hoover you and attempt to suck you back into their horrors.
i am a narcissistic abuse survivor,and was the scapegoat in my very toxic family i have ptsd, and the pain and grief are still painful all these years later love the video
Going through the loss of my daughter two years ago, , She was my heart and soul,,,, much harder and another layer of grief when the family and "friends" dont acknowledge, or feel this, or remember her...no funeral, no contact, no cards or calling on the Holidays Weaponizing isolation, people trying to force me out of town, Extinguish my happiness and I finally stopped doing my art..Spread from family to my community.,,,One day i will disappear with my cat and my bike and my car...All will Rejoice !!
I'm so deeply sorry for your loss - and the lack of support. Sadly, I see this all too often. Linking you to a list of resources I put together in case you see something helpful: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
Thank you so much for talking about "disenfranchised grief." This ministered to my heart simply for the acknowledgement. I feel like an alien here. Your understanding helps me to feel a little less ostracized.💗
As I process more of my Grief , i realize that its mostly because how much of my self and dreams i sacrificed for others , because my desperate need to belong to a family , more over how that family never worked out . I also have come to accept that most of my trauma wasn't really about what directly happened to me , for i was not allowed to really have a self to be directly hurt , most of my trauma comes from vicarious abuse , not being able to save or help others taking all the blame and responsibility but given no power. These are where i gain a sense of helplessness , Why i projected that no matter what i did , it was not good enough , because i couldn't save my family , in particular my Mother then later my Sister and now it feels like my Neice , (my father brother nephews i guess because of my socialization from society i never felt that as strong with them as i do feel with the women in my family) but my regrets , my grief the real trauma is from them , All of the bad that happened to me i never really blamed anyone or anything because i still felt a sense of control , even after being raped and sex trafficked myself i always felt in control to some degree . But the powerlessness comes from the root of not being able to save, protect, and provide for my mother and she made sure of it . Its so bad that even in my dreams when I'm being attacked and i hit back it does nothing like i have no strength sure i can use telekinesis or something in the dreams but if i physically hit most times nothing just a sense of helplessness and powerlessness , i will wake up after most times , but the times I dont it then becomes a nightmare . thank you for this video i believe this is my last part feeling my own grief and moving thru it , again thank you i needed a space to release this before i tell my therapist .
Thank you for sharing this part of your story, and always good to find a comment from you. When one has such great empathy and compassion for others, it can feel that there is no personal 'selfhood' - but your 'true-self nature' certainly shines through in your comments here, and, I'm sure, in other areas of your life, and we are all blessed by it.
Disenfranchised grief encompasses so much, more than missed opportunities or relationships that died, it's also - primarily- about pain that is blamed onto the scapegoat. Remember, scapegoats are blamed for everything in the family that's going wrong, so when it emerges a situation where you have to leave it to go forward in life, it's the scapegoat that's blamed for all the resulting problems. So, it might emerge the dysfunctional family blames the scapegoat for all the problems, and the scapegoat privately knows the family was toxic enough without any input from yourself, there comes to be a situation where both parties attribute the problems to the other side. For the scapegoat to be vocal about the pain is being part of the problem, so in a never-ending intention of keeping the peace, we grieve privately.
For a long time, to find answer to my suffering, I had to first choose from different diagnoses of myself first: physical/sexual/emotional abuse? depression, personality disorder, then find the information from books of that 'genre'. By bringing awareness to FSA/FST, Rebecca identified a specific mechanism that causes the traumatic injury. I'm sure FSA happens in many families with sexual/physical abuse, families with addiction problem ... etc. Like the topic of betrayal trauma that you introduced me to, I feel that the bubbles of the Venn diagram of child abuse should be the specific mechanisms like FSA/FST, betrayal, invalidation, ... etc than categories like sexual/physical/emotional abuse ... etc. Mechanism-oriented organization will help victims understand why they feel the way they do better than different diagnostic labels. For years, I felt I was gingerly holding a giant tear drop in the middle of my chest. It quivered and threatened to burst. One day after an EMDR session, it burst. I had an understanding that I was that sucker in a gang, the one expected to be sacrificed first in a war. That was my price to be a member of the gang. That understanding brought out river of tears. My therapist later apologized for causing me to dissociate. I didn't mind though. I think one trait helped me to survive was my determination to know the truth no matter how ugly it is. This painful knowledge did help. I was able to be more aware of the vulnerable part of me and have compassion for her. Feeling the righteous rage helps me fight. Feeling the grief helps me be more compassionate towards myself.
Profound (and profoundly moving) comment, Anne. I'd love to see the type of map / graph you are speaking of. If you ever whip one up and want me to share it on a video or my blog, just let me know. I love the idea!
This truly was a very profound comment, well said. You're absolutely right that this feels like it's at the core of everything. I want to escape mySELF because it feels like the pain feels like it comes from every direction, but at the core is unwilling silence. I had to be silent about illness, addiction, abuse, s3xual abuse, neglect, abandonment, being scapegoated, all of it. Everything that happened in the family was all my fault and I couldn't even question it. The worst part was being invalidated and forced to hold it in for fear of being seen as "even more difficult than I've always been" for just breathing and existing. It made me doubt myself to the point that at 34 I can't make the simplest decisions, and I'm even harder on myself than they all were, hoping I can make myself "better" and "acceptable," just beating myself up all day long. I learned to abandon myself, and do so everyday. I am also in emdr and praying every day for this kind of breakthrough. I'm in so much emotional pain and turbulence, it's so hard to look at what was done to me and how much time and opportunities I lost, I feel like I'm falling apart. I've been running from feeling this my whole life and 5 months into emdr I'm wondering how I can even handle anymore. Your comment gives me hope and some perspective. I hope you have an amazing life. I wish you the best of luck on your journey!
WOW. That second paragraph was HEAVY and TRUE. It is absolutely devastating to realize what was truly happening. The analogy of being a "sucker in a gang" was spot-on!!! I love the last two sentences ... it's like a beautiful poem.💖
I really like the idea of reimagining a venn diagram to include FSA/FST, betrayal, invalidation. That's a really helpful angle on it. Thanks for getting me thinking about that. So validating. And your understanding of "Feeling the righteous rage helps me fight. Feeling the grief helps me be more compassionate towards myself." is so incredibly powerful. Thank you so much for that!
No one was on my side. Was the only one who saw her the way she was with me. I have been on medcation for depression for years. I didnot know I had losses.That was just my life. I still feel alone with it.
This may be the first time that I have heard anyone mention relocation! That is such an important idea that needs to be mentioned a lot more. The religious fanatic in my family, who caused so much damage to my relationship between my daughter and myself - the one who holds such a high place in our diocese, exercising extreme control over the decisions that other people make; and going to great lengths to make sure that the world conforms to how she thinks it should be...Being a part of the same religion, in the same geographic location, makes connecting with other women who share my faith very difficult, since everyone knows who she is. I almost left the church because of this, but I am slowly learning that I need to be very selective with whom I share personal information! It's almost time for my husband to retire and we have decided that we are leaving this diocese when that occurs. We will be relocating at least an hour away. It's not the perfect solution, but it will help. Of course, there are other factors involved in this decision, and making a move to a more rural location would make economic sense at this stage in our lives..
I've had more than a few clients in a similar position, whether it was a parent who was a minister, or child psychologist, or social worker specializing in the protection of children. The double reality going on there is mind-bending, to say the least.
My mother was sexually Abused as a child and made it known to me when I was 7 at my grandfather's funeral. I was a middle child ( older brother and baby sister). Very sensitive child. Starting to make sense. I'm the family "crazy".
I've got one who is just a monster. When I saw Amber Heard smirking on the witness stand in the recent court proceedings it was uncanny. The same sneering, smirking, dismissive, mendacious attitude my own sister has displayed for years. My wife couldn't believe it either. It was freaky.
I grieved on the idea of family. I was always there for my family such as support, love and giving. I didn’t get back. I understand they don’t know love. But if someone is truly there for them they should at least have compassion and gratitude for the person being there.
Ideally, yes, this would be the case - reciprocal, loving, supportive, respectful relationships. But there is much that is not typical or rational in regard to dysfunctional or narcissistic family systems, as my book, articles, and videos on FSA will attest - which are all based in my research on this form of abuse (which I named 'family scapegoating abuse' or 'FSA'.)
I am the family scapegoat. My mum is 98 yrs old and lives with me. We have always been close. I gave this heartache to God years ago and am born again. I pray for the rest of my family and i love them from afar. They said goodbye to me but They are not permitted in my life as things stand anyway.❤🙏
Geographic removal from an area does help start a new life. My situation is that there was sexual abuse as well as scapegoating. The scapegoating was driven by my mother and stepfather. My stepfather is the molester and my mom the enabler. My daughter and I have cut ties with the family as my daughter chose to take legal action against my step-dad. What is so frightening is that my sister's children were also sexually abused by him and still the family are blind to the whole scapegoating narrative. They are in such denial. They are highly qualified, educated and successful individuals, the so called pillars of society. I experienced this unbelievable grief and the loneliness of it all. As I said, I'm grieving the loss of a whole family that still walks around as if nothing has happened. I just would like people out there to know that there is light at the end of the tunnel. I'm a huge animal lover and therefore has numerous pets which give unconditional love and good quality people as friends. Nature is also a wonderful healer. I do find my birthday and Christmas triggering, but I prepare myself for this and just know that these days will pass. I no longer cry about the family. I try not to resent them anymore as I know they can't comprehend it. I also give myself brownie points when I notice that my responses to triggers and my improvement in coping with them improves. I would not have been able to get through without channels like this one. Many therapists are not so aware of it but I also send these links to mine as sharing information is so important. Thank you Rebecca. X
We had an intact close happy family until covid. For some reason I the mom of now all adults with families was attacked and ganged up against by most of them. They were complaining about a sibling first and then switched to me. (My husband escaped most but not all of it.) It was incredible. One even went no contact which I had never heard of. It felt like the end of the world. Even now I would crawl into a hole and die if I could. But instead God is enabling me to forgive as I am forgiven. I have given them tons of space but have not given up. Thank God, most are finally back to being their old wonderful selves again, but not all. Yes the shock, loss, and grief is off the charts. Thank you for the validation.
You're welcome. Many dynamics shifted in families due to the pandemic. Glad you're here. Here's my resource list in case you are seeking more information and support: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
My father passed away a few weeks ago. After the funeral one of my brothers who I cut out of my life five years ago, felt it necessary to say in private that I should have known he was going to die soon BC he was on blood pressure meds. This was followed by years of petty resentment that led to me cutting him out of my life five years ago. I refuse to take his crap and have called him out dozens of times for being a jerk and everyone always backs him up no matter how messed up it is, even all the things he said after our father's funeral. Another brother backed him up and I ended up leaving while the rest of my family mourned the loss of my dad. A few days later I told my mom why I left early and she shook her head like I was just a little kid being a baby and said what everyone else says when they make excuses for him "well he's under alot of stress". It's just been one nightmare after another trying to process the loss of my dad along with all the messed up things people have said and done since and now it's impossible to process anything and it's ruining my life, relationship and willingness to move on.
So very sorry for your loss. Sounds like you have a very clear view of what is actually going on in regard to family dynamics and being scapegoated. It can feel devastating to discover no-one in the family will stand up for you and bullies are allowed to reign supreme in these types of family systems. I hope you find something useful here on my channel. My book might also be helpful for you at this time (‘Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed’).
I have 3 sisters. We range from 62-73 in age. The two oldest are narcissistic abusers. Same patterns. Pull me in, try to seem to have a relationship for a while then, get mad over something silly like where you shop.Then, kick you to the curb for 3-5 years. All the time you're grieving that. Rejection. Unpredictability. It's a total mind F. Then you get the text or the call. "Let's put all this behind us. Meet me for lunch at 2 on Saturday. " Well, I didn't show up for any holiday gatherings and I had to grieve it all over again. But this time I am not playing. And I get angry because they need my nieces and nephews and greats for flying Monkeys, and they make me the bad guy to ensure they keep control. It is total insanity. Now I'm really the bad guy because I haven't acquiesced to their meanness. And we are in our golden years, same town, and not even a phone call because I can't handle my triggers without breaking out in shingles or nausea or some choking feeling around my throat. No thanks. I'm so glad God gave me bonus sisters to put in their place. And these two can't even stand each other.😅 They still text my husband, which I don't like, but he's trying to just everyone get along.
This dynamic is typical and I plan to do a video on what you are describing here. Thank you for sharing your own experiences. Indeed, it is a sick 'game' and certainly not a fun one for the target of FSA.
My greif didn't come until I fully understood that I would never have the wonderful family relationships others have at the same time overwhelming relief of knowing I have escaped continual wounding ballances out the greif.
I grieved for about two years and concluded that my grief was allowing them to control me. Lately I’ve adopted an “it is what it is” mindset. And in hindsight I realize the family really never was close or supportive. It was a false family. So my grief was based on what I hoped for, not what it really was. I have no contact with those who smeared and lied about me, the scapegoat. However, I do send them all Christmas cards. It’s up to them if they send one back. My card wishes them well and reminds them that I’m still alive (age 73) and well.
Grief is one of many stages leading to 'radical acceptance' - Sounds like you may have gotten there. I wrote an article about this here: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/2023/11/05/radical-acceptance-and-scapegoat-recovery-the-power-of-accepting-what-is/
Experiencing the grief is the last piece of my healing that I haven’t been able to fully access yet. I have a safe and supportive therapist, and we are starting to get there. I can feel tiny bits from time to time. I’m almost past the anger. It’s like the grief is frozen or locked inside. I’ll be glad when I can finally feel it ❤🙏
Glad you have a therapist you feel safe with. I hope you can take a few minutes to read the article on grief and FSA I link to in the video description - very informative.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse thank you. I read it this morning. What a beautiful message. It reminds me of the pendulation work I’m doing in somatic experiencing therapy.
What has helped me access the grief is the simple breathwork exercise described in Andrew Lowen’s book ‘Pleasure’ (from the 80s I think!). It occurred to me that it is being separated from my capacity to feel joy in my body that has caused the greatest suffering. After doing the breathwork a couple of times I cried for 3 days straight. And what a reduction in anxiety! Still grieving and in awe that one heart can hold so much pain.
The pain is so profound. I no longer grieve relationships that were never loving because you can't lose something you never had. I don’t want these people in my life, but I still grieve not having had a loving childhood, not having developed the foundation to feel that I belong in this world. I fear that no amount of personal work will ever allow me to heal.
It's a tough road; I equate healing from FSA to the Kintsugi vase - More info' here: www.fullcirclecounseling.com/blog/the-art-of-kintsugi-a-precious-metaphor-for-the-wounded-healer
Hearing that your parents' shouldn't talk about you in front of you is wrong is new to me. I wish there was a comprehensive book on ages 0-18 about what a healthy childhood looks like and how "good enough" parents deal with puberty and discipline. I did move states and it did help and my therapy helped to the point I am finally coming out of my shell to where I feel safe enough to have emotions, but its crazy the level of autonomy "normal" people were allowed to have compared to mine and even today I learn more ways that my childhood was deficient.
So true. A child learns about 'reality' from the family-of-origin initially. So what happens in that family will seem 'normal' to the child - even when it most definitely isn't.
I came across a quote in the Talmud when I was studying Judaism...Baba Metzia section. "He who publicly shames his neighbor is as though he shed blood." The Rabbis conjecture that it's because someone's face gets flushed and blood filled. I had been so publicly bullied by so many for so long.....it was so comforting to see that somebody gets it. It's just appropriate, good manners, practicing the Golden Rule not to shame another person publicly, in front of others, whether family or not....not to talk about them in the 3rd person singular when they are in earshot. It just is.....
Thank you to Rebecca and Dr Erin Watson. What you've said and written is true. The quickest way to the dawn of a new day is to turn around to face the darkness of night. There you will encounter, what I call "Mr. GRIEF". He walks right in and takes over your favorite chair. He becomes a companion. Most run from him. Distracted with __________. You fill in the blank. But that's a detour to the dawn of a new day...actually never get to the new day. Anyway Disenfranchised Grief is real. There are ALOT OF LOSSES one experiences in the FSA Role. VERY REAL LOSSES. For me, I had to let go of several people in my life that just flat out do not understand. In the process of letting them go I learned to realize that GRIEF is a better companion like that River that'll take you where you need to go. (To borrow David Kessler's words). When you honestly grieve your losses the loss no longer controls you. It doesn't go away it's just completely different in a most welcoming kind of way. It no longer consumes you, instead it becomes a part of your life, a beautiful part. I find the Garden is a good place to stroll with Grief. Father, teach me how to grieve with more love than pain. Dr. Rebecca Mandeville THANK YOU for accompanying us in this journey to heal from family scapegoating abuse. I say again, your crown awaits you. Gratefully Jane.
Wow, this is beautiful. I needed to read this. I haven't know what to do with so much grief. (I initially wrote "don't" not haven't.) Thank you for lighting the path towards relief and bringing an air of spirituality to the process.
I'm am now 14 years into the Narcissistic Smear Campaign Scapegoating Estrangement. My greif is horrible. My son was in the family crossfire. I have now missed 14 years of his life. I have a therapist at the moment but we have not touched on disenfranchised grief. This is very helpful and eye opening.
I'm glad that you found a term that may help you understand what you have been struggling with. I do have a chapter on Disenfranchised grief in my book (Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed) as well.
I’m speechless! This is my 3rd Dr. Rebecca’s video and again I have to stop to absorb and try to process the truth of what I’ve been experiencing for 12 years. Now 71. The term disenfranchised grief is like a gift to the emotions I’ve had without being able to name them. It’s a THINGI And now have a label! It’s an exact definition to the insanity I’ve been experiencing. And it’s a truth that I’ve been hoping was a lie. You see recently I’ve been feeling like “THAT GUY”! What’s funnier is, it looks as if I’ve been “THAT GUY” for over 12 years. Not so recent. I can now see more clearly how it got to be like this. That’s a gift too. I wasn’t the defective one.
It's definitely 'a THING'. But, not just and only a mysterious and incomprehensible 'thing' now. We can call it what it is (the term I coined): Family Scapegoating Abuse (FSA).
I was told by a flying monkey, minion uncle to “get over it” regarding my dad’s sexual abuse of me as a little girl. My dad’s wicked, narc wife screamed at me I wanted it because she can’t face the truth of what her husband did to his own child. And these people go to church!!! 😈😈😈 Crazy bunch...
This is me. I was shut out of holidays, even as a kid by manipulation- falsely accused of being mean to them, then told to smarten up and put on a smile. When I couldn't playact well enough told to stay in my room until I could. I heard Christmas through the door. I spent every one of my birthdays until age 50's in bed dreading seeing them all later because they'd all laugh about me.
Yes. And nieces nephews. I had a different "scapegoat story"too. I was always told I was a "miracle baby" coming so late in age, and so wanted, then turned into such a "disappointment" - selfish, evil, cruel, ...
I liken the pain of disenfranchised grief, (especially in the very beginning) to being nailed to a cross, lifted up high above everyone, while they go about their normal routines, completely apathetic and oblivious to the person suffering horribly just out of their line of vision (abiity to see, understand or care). If one happens to "look up" and hear you voicing your pain, they merely think you are crazy or mentally unstable and continue on their way.
I was about 12-13 years old when I found the right term to describe me in my family and that is scapegoat. And just this past few years I slowly understood what Covert Narcissistic Martyr Mother is and equally mentally challenging father. Now 42 and move out almost 5 years ago, got married and now have a family of my own. Mother doesn't want me to have a family of my own but still got married anyway. This is true. Grief. I felt that. Grief for the lost of someone who is still alive. Isolated, lost a few friends ad relative thru smear campaign. Anger, anxiety and panic attack and now on the path between anger and acceptance.
Sounds like you have a great deal of awareness already regarding your situation. Glad you're here. Linking you to my updated FSA adult survivor resource list in case something catches your eye: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
Hang in there. I did find great friends and coworkers that are there for me and reach out to me that I have relationships with. It took awhile to build those relationships but it just proves that we can have good ties with others when they love and respect is back.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Have an awesome German shepherd. She’s my best friend. She’s also my 6th shepherd. Had two of them not too long ago till the one had to be put down. That was 4 months before my sons death and my ex narcissistic husband and I split up for good. Talk about stress on top of stress. Pets are the best therapy!!
Rebecca.....thank you for understanding and revealing this aspect of FSA. It is the most horrific, insidious and painful type of abuse. I don't know how I have survived. It most definitely goes under the radar and most therapists are totally clueless.
Society as a whole is either unaware of FSA, has no interest in hearing about it, or is part of perpetrating it. I completely agree. It is the most painful thing any human can endure. Take care ❤
When my scapegoating mother screamed at me at the dinner table about how stupid she thought I was my father just sat there saying and doing nothing. For this reason it is so difficult to forgive him. I don’t know if I ever will be able to in any kind of authentic way.
With my clients (and in my book, Rejected, Shamed and Blamed, and also my videos here) I focus on 'radical acceptance' versus forgiveness. Here's an article I wrote recently on this topic: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/2023/11/05/radical-acceptance-and-scapegoat-recovery-the-power-of-accepting-what-is/
I allowed the grief to come a year ago & the tears pain & floodgates opened it was overwhelming lasted weeks the aftermath lasted months when I came out of it I began to heal. The anger was very scary as I was conditioned to believe i was abnormal when I showed anger they all are allowed this anger I am not. But my anger I know now is a normal reaction to an abnormal situation. It was all worth it as I realise the strength resilience & determination that I have is something they can’t destroy only I can scare myself into believing the lies gaslighting slander & manipulation they imposed on me I survived this endless dehumanisation for 40 + years I am still be standing owning my truth telling the truth. They were unable to change or look at their behaviour from a normal perspective or compromise a little to meet me halfway. On some level I was in fact somewhat crazy to think I alone could reunite heal our family bring us together in an open fair loving forgiving manner. For me I’m letting go of this naive dream. But I am choosing to make it very clear by walking away that they’re behaviour is not okay & I won’t allow myself to be used & abused anymore by anyone! This is a crossroads for me personally right now & has been difficult as it’s more than just about protecting my health & sanity it is also a principle if I wish to live true to my values & for the first time in many many years be true to myself ! then my outside actions must be congruent with my internal beliefs, if I am ever to have the peace I so desire & deserve. I often think of this quote. Evil can flourish when good men do nothing. I may not be able to shout injustice from the rooftops or bring about massive change but I will no longer be silenced ❤️🩹.
Pat, this is an incredibly powerful personal 'testimony'. Sounds like you have grieved deeply, felt the 'righteous rage', and are moving into strong 'radical acceptance' - and taking care of yourself in the process. I celebrate your recovery and this new chapter living as your TRUE SELF.
Thank you for validating hearing and simply acknowledging me Rebecca ❤️🩹 I read your comment & didn’t know how to feel at first couldn’t quite deal with it. Another symptom of SG fear of compliments success or affirmation it’s usually followed with an attack, my body & mind doesn’t trust temporary pleasure or self love it was always a precursor to severe punishment. I know what’s coming the aftermath of any success or achievement is followed by put downs chastising words like don’t get to big for your boots, if they only knew the real you ! Taunts name calling a combined family effort to put me back in the well constructed labelled box 📦 they needed me to stay in. Still got work ti do 😉
So many of us here can relate to these feelings and fears you share, Pat. I recommend you read this article I just posted on my blog written by my colleague Dr Erin Watson on scapegoating and betrayal trauma. These issues you describe are mirrored there as well: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/2023/04/28/betrayal-trauma-and-family-scapegoating-abuse/
When I was still staying with family, I asked my NPD mom to take a family photo together with dad and my sisters/nieces/BIL. She said no time and never tried to make time. And when I went study abroad.. bam! Suddenly appeared a family photo.. without me. Even until now.. at age of middle age, excluded from a family by my mom and my sisters. Now I understand the grief I have for years. I walked away from my toxic mom... yet..the grief lingers deeper
I've had clients report the same; finding their photos turned face down when they go home to visit or their photo hung up in the garage with the glass cracked and coated with dust, etc. These things really do happen. Very sorry it has happened to you.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse thank you for sharing the others' story. It is painful to always be in the position of scapegoat and too many incidents of re-injuring even after setting boundaries. Always making effort in the road of healing. Hopefully what you share will make more awareness about this situation. Thank you for all your posting.. it helps a lot ! 💐
The concept of disenfranchised grief makes so much sense. I've been feeling exactly that for decades, but couldn't really get my head around it. The stigma that comes with the family slander is, at times, as painful as the slander itself. I'm so worn out by the notion of "well, if your entire family says that you are xyz then maybe you should think about that, they can't all be wrong, you're the common denominator here." This video is so validating. Thank you for explaining this form of grief so clearly. There was never any supportive constructive criticsm from anyone in my fam of origin and their friends, just assumptions, insinuations, and insane rumors. A therapist I was seeing with my narcissistic father (his choice of therapist) took me aside after a while and told me I was a family avatar. That made a lot of sense too. I am a manifestation of the projections of the greatest frustrations, anxieties, hatreds, fears, greed, jealousy, etc of various family members and their friends. It is excruciating and has destroyed my career, my finances, my physical, and mental health. Thank you so much for the work that you do, for the research, for producing these videos for us, and for inspiring us to start a grassroots movement. You are helping me (and many others, I realize) break the stigma. My traumatized mom died full of self doubt and confusion, in her last decade she cycled through various nursing homes where I met so many kind, empathic people who had been tricked into signing over resources then put into the homes to die alone. It was tragic. You are starting a movement which will help society avoid that pain. I can't thank you enough for that.
Thank you, Karen. Very glad you are here and already appreciating your contributions to this new and growing community. The family avatar reference would tie into what we in the Family Systems field call the 'Family Projective Identification Process'. I discuss this at times in my video (including why the family Empath are the recipients of this projection process) and there is an article I wrote about this also on my blog. If you need the link, just let me know.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thanks so much for getting back to me so quickly! I've looked briefly through your blog (love it!!!) there's so much there to learn, it's really making so much sense. So incredibly validating. Wish I had a time machine. I am really interested in learning more about the 'Family Projective Identification Process.' I'd love any links which make reference to that. Thank you again for creating and sharing such an incredible resource for us. I can't find words to express how much I appreciate it.
Karen, to get a good foundation, you may want to read my book on what I researched on and named ' family scapegoating abuse' (FSA), 'Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed'. It is available internationally on Amazon and other major online book retailers. It will give you a good foundation in the Family Systems view of scapegoating and the underlying causes.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse It's the first book on my purchasing list. I've been meaning to get a copy for months now. I've heard great things about it. Can't wait, just challenged by time and funds at the moment. I should be able to get a copy soon.
Carried sadness all my life. Deep, deep sadness! Father died suddenly when I was 6 years old. Mother and two, much older brothers, took all their grief/anger out on me. It’s so confusing, grew up wanting to please only to be ridiculed for that too.I grieve for me not the loss of others whom I separated from ❤❤
Sounds like a highly traumatized, dysfunctional family system, which is what my book focuses on. It's linked at the top of this resource list I put together, in case you are wanting more support: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
I didn't even know that I was grieving. I just thought I was a mentally unhealthy person. Thanks to the dreams that haunted me for decades, with me waking up crying silently every morning. That deep, profound sorrow, disproportionate to the events of the dreams made me probe further into why I was so very sad. Several therapists who didn't know anything about this topic re-traumatised me and I stopped seeking help from anyone. I also went NC with extended family members, not all at once but through a slow, painful and disappointing realisation that they're all on the Kool-Aid. After a few years of reading articles and watching youtube videos that contributed greatly to my knowledge on dysfunctional family dynamics, I discovered your channel only a few days ago. Thanks, Rebecca for your caring and compassionate videos. I'm going to get your book and see where it will take me.
Very glad you're here and good to hear you'll be reading my introductory book on FSA. Linking you to a list of resources I put together for FSA adult survivors as well: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
I watched a video last night and thank you. I’ve gone no contact for 2 years. I’ve been working on healing. I had no idea that I was the scapegoat. The patterns of treatment towards me just became unbearable. I chose me. The grief was like a death or loss. I cried for about a month. On and off but it would happen in public places. I may have been in shock at first. I think many people thought we’d patch things up but I knew I had to walk away. I believe I was grieving the idea of this close family or a closeness with my mom and sister. It was never going to happen. I started Reiki and energy clearing and in about 3 months I felt better, than the holidays rolled around. I still attend meditation and energy clearings, it has helped me sooooo much. I’m kinda of like an orphan now. I’m no longer mad, I’m just rebuilding and creating new memories with my own family. My husband does say I should call but he doesn’t understand that estrangement is better for my mental health. ✌🏼❤😊
I've had more than a few spouses of FSA adult survivors read my book and watch some of my videos and it did help them to better understand. If my research and work on what I named family scapegoating abuse (FSA) is new to you, you might find additional support/information here from this survivor resource list I put together: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
Thank you so much for this! I am living with the righteousness rage you mention, and I see that I need to let myself grieve. That is overwhelming. I so look forward to your videos, they are my lifeline. Thank you so very much for validating my experience. It’s a very lonely road, which even my husband doesn’t understand.
Scapegoated grief in my opinion, are the most horrendous, traumatizing and overwhelming emotions one can ever experience in life. I can honestly tell you, and I only know this from a dream I had, that my angels came down and covered my heart. To shield me from the excruciating pain, allowing me to process all the grief, one step at a time. And I know this dream is true, because if not, I wouldn't be here today. They had to have shielded my heart through the pain that is ongoing, but is getting better, for me to have lived to tell the tale... I'm so grateful to have found your channel. Truly one of a kind and your voice is very calming to me. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and putting a voice to the ones that are always overlooked, taken for granted or just simply thrown away. It's nice to finally hear about our problems and how to overcome them, versus what a narcissist is and the different family roles that manifest. Yes, we need to know about those characters, as to understand where we came from and to recognize patterns so that in future relationships we involve ourselves with, a more harmonious dynamic can be played out while also helping to heal our hearts and traumatized souls. It's nice to finally see someone addressing the process on how to heal the pain that belongs to a scapegoated person alone, only because the trauma is compounded by so many people that were supposed to love them, should have loved them, and yet they chose not too. 🌷🙏🌷 Namaste to you Beautiful One 💜 💜 💜
Willow Moon, you express yourself - and your truth - so beautifully. I appreciate your kind comments about my channel and my content as well. I relate to everything you say here - and even had a similar ‘visitation’ over 30 years ago in a dream state - but I am quite sure it was no ‘dream’ as it was more real than my waking life. It would be intriguing to see how many people who are scapegoated might experience something like this; perhaps I will at some point put up a poll or do some formal, transpersonally-oriented research on it. Thank you for being here.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse intriguing thought about the "dream". 🤔 Curiouser and curiouser, my mind is trying to run off to ponder this notion! So I will thank you for your kind words, wish you a happy day and let my mind have it's lead for a bit. I look forward to seeing what may transpire from you on this. 🌷🙏🌷Namaste Beautiful One 💜 💜 💜
When your kids see you shunned, it takes away your parenting skills…they ignore you too and tell you your own family has nothing to do with you, why should we listen to you???
Your differentiation between FSA and NA is beyond amazing. FSA is a ganging up and it is so invisible to others. It is so beyond anything else I have literally ever experienced anywhere. And coming from your family is like Night Gallery. I just can't literally believe it most of the time and feel surreal and I believe the day I die I will still not have totally accepted it because it is so beyond my mind's ability to even understand, if that makes any sense, FWIW. :)
It makes perfect sense to me. You might also find this video interesting - I do keep separate playlists on the home page of this channel to distinguish between dysfunctional family scapegoating vs narcissistic - and of course, some families are both - and more: ruclips.net/video/AD-rwWEbcWE/видео.html
I sit here in tears. Thank you sincerely, for validating what happened to me. As you spoke i was thinking this is exactly how it went for me. I am 2 years a "lone wolf" and very proud i survived the dark moments of grief i experienced.. and still today, sometimes take my breath away.
Thank you for this video. I’ve been there, exactly like you explained, my grief over the loss of my remaining family members after my mom and sister died hits me so hard sometimes, in waves even I’ve had to ask myself if I still want to be here. It’s the flying monkeys, they are so awful. But I’m writing this so I’m still here, but there are times I barely make it through. I do not have a good support system and get gaslighted whenever i try to speak up so thank you for posting this, thank you for acknowledging what I’m going through is a real thing, a thing other scapegoatees experience too. Thank you for helping me make it through another day.
Thank you for another great video.. i wouldnt have been able to heal properly living with their vicinity.. having the distance has been so good. Also, the further one is, the more fear the family has because they dont have control and fear losing the scapegoat for good! Especially, if they know you're happy and doing well. It can destroy them because they have to come to grips eventually .. it will happen! I grieved the death of every family member .. finally i feel like that big bagpack of weight i carried, is slowly starting to come off .. and ive been waiting to feel this my whole life .. im losing the anger .. and learning to accept. What leaving the country does is... sometimes god/universe had other plans for us... we weren't meant to live that same life... the situation HAD to get so bad that one decides to leave and realizes... you might have options. You will grow more in a year than your entire family all their life.. combined! New doors open.. you will see how people treat you so different in a new country.. It gives you extra confirmation on how bad we were getting scapegoated ..😅 You realize how lucky they were to have you! The country change might be exactly what you needed. It opens your eyes. You now know you could live elsewhere and be happier. You will become more couragous. Stay open minded . That it could be divine planning and timing.. but you gotta stay dedicated to becoming the best version of yourself..
Inspiring comment - and it is so very true. Once we commit to the path of 'true self' reclamation and development, a new path invariably opens up, and it may lead us on many adventures and positive experiences beyond what we could ever have imagined. When we take a leap of faith, it seems the Universe meets us half way and we suddenly have the wings to fly. I see this time and time again with clients in my practice.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse we learn how to become mature empaths, strong boundaries, and often realize the universe was trying to help us this whole time
Glad you're here. Here's my resource list for FSA adult survivors in case you don't have a copy yet. I posted it awhile back in the Community tab here: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
All of your videos this one hit home the most, beginning to name the rage & isolation that I'm stuck in rn at 42 yo. 14 months ago I began therapy w/ a trauma informed LPC. My whole life I sought therapy, but None named my experience as trauma, or even as abuse. I've been stuck in rage & extremely isolated since going NC w/ my last family member ironically the BPD mother (very narc traits) that set the scapegoat dynamic in motion, who I nevertheless had more of a bond w/ despite the hell, than my Narc father & their Narc Golden Child, my only sibling. NC for 4 yrs, never a day of regret over that. But the loss, as I'm disabled & won't bring a child into this world that I cannot definitely care for fully, as they deserve,but being without any family but for my one true blessing, my partner, (& fur babies) is definitely an ENORMOUS void.
It's been several decades and I can't recall the details like I used to but my mother left me with my infant brother who was crawling and intermittently walking. I was about 6 or seven at the time. Uncustomarily she left me alone in the house with him and ordered me to not let him get a glass of clorox water she'd left on the table and to also clean up the room and quickly left to go down to the barn for something. First of all, I was reluctant to move the glass to higher ground for fear of getting in trouble so I left it where it was and began tackling cleaning up the room so I wouldn't get in trouble for that as well. i caught my brother reaching for the glass of what appeared to be water and moved it to higher ground and went back to cleaning. He started messing with a chair but I just knew he wouldn't be able to maneuver it over, climb up and get the glass so I just kept cleaning etc and next thing I knew he had pulled himself up onto the chair somehow and was reaching for the glass and as I ran over he quickly grabbed the glass and put it to his mouth. i didn't believe he'd managed to actually drink any of it but immediately took him and went to find my mother anyways and let her know what happened. She glared at me and quickly made some concoction for him to drink. That became all my fault but why would she put clorox in a glass like that in the first place if not hoping for what happened and that became yet another character flaw to accuse me of like I had it in for my brother or something and wished him harm. In another incident, hogs were being slaughtered for the smokehouse and the lard was being cooked down to be used as oil for cooking and frying. I remember my toddler brother being in the kitchen when a small silver container of hot oil was brought in and sat down next to my mother who was standing at the counter doing something but the lid wasn't completed closed in order to allow the heat to escape. I was playing under the table when all this unfolded. I noticed my brother getting closer to the container and called out to my mother but she didn't acknowlege me or him so I went back to what I was doing. Next thing I know my brother let out a cry after having backed up to sit on it and his backside was badly burned. Again, my mother glared at me as if it was all my fault and God only knows what she led others to believe because she was not about to take the blame herself and most likely relayed the events to make it appear that way. In another incident with my niece, I had driven my mother somewhere, maybe a doctor's appointment, and she was holding my niece who was an infant and letting her suck on a cheese puff because she was teething. I became concerned when i glanced over and my mother had narrowly prevented my niece from sucking the whole thing into her mouth and I commented for her to be careful because of the strong suction my niece was putting on the cheese puff. My mother timed it so that just as I pulled in to park she allowed my niece to suck the whole cheese puff into her mouth and it became lodged in her throat. My mother made a sound and I looked over and saw my niece trying to gag. Just as I threw the car into park my mother shoved my niece into my arms. Not knowing what to do I instinctively jumped out of the car and flipped her over and hit her in the back a couple time and she spit it out and let out an outraged cry to my utter relief and joy. it was like if my niece died it was going to be my fault because I was the last one holding her and felt sure my mother would have relayed it that way, behind my back of course, that I was the one feeding her cheese puffs and was the cause of her almost choking to death but my siblings would not they have contested my mother's version of things and would not have given me a chance to say anything because in the end it wouldn't have mattered...
I have a dream, you saw something about mee too... People don't belive us We need to come together as nany as possible and when we stand together, I bet they heard us out..Mee too😊
Thank you. I appreciate this video. I am a scapegoat child. Both my mother and her husband physical abused me. As a scapegoat child I was the problem and every family member could put me down because I was the scapegoat child.
You're welcome. I hope these videos, along with my book, Rejected Shamed and Blamed, help you to understand the TRUE problem in regard to family systems that scapegoat one of their own.
Your work is pioneering Rebecca, I feel so glad to have found your book and channel. Absolutely to the power of connecting and building a grassroots movement. Grief is so painful and complex and when it’s not seen/allowed it’s repeating all those wounds of not being seen/heard by our family and the pain & feelings of isolation intensify. I only just heard about disenfranchised grief from your book and it’s the part that was the most helpful. There’s probably things we can learn from other communities who have fought public indifference even rejection of their grief plus ignorance and shaming? (I’m old enough to remember how people who identified as lgbqt were treated in the 80s especially when AIDS struck).
Yes, I believe there are things we could learn from those movements.Glad to hear that my chapter on grief and this video have been helpful and I hope you were able to read Dr Watson's article on the same subject as well. It's a good one.
Disenfranchised Grief is the term for what we as FSA Survivors went through. I couldn't find the exact words to describe this uncalled for family torture. I wish there was a hashtag for us. I watched my mother and sister walk around with smug looks on their faces as they told anyone who would listen ..." She's ( me) crazy and she's making it all up. She needs psychiatric help". Entire family and friends believes them, not me. That's what angers me. Glad I went no contact last yr. My sister masquerades as the old me ( hairstyle & clothing style, mannerisms. She even laughs like me) When she became a minister like I used to be, she phoned & told me " Now I'm a minister like you USED to be and I'm praying for your salvation since you have become a spiritually weak person." The arrogance is on a high level. So now I am free of them all.Thank You very much Dr. Mandeville ❤
Oh, that's a new one, even for me - Worthy of being in my 'Bizarre Video' series - "When siblings become you after you leave the dysfunctional / narcissistic family system." As a family systems therapist, I find it both macabre AND fascinating!
I noticed this a few years before I left the family. Dad told her she looked like me with her hair styled like mine. Her reply: "I AM BB" People started thinking we were twins. I told Mom I thought it was weird behavior because my sister was turning into me.
@@bbjoyce-je1vx That is wild! and interesting. My most difficult family relationship is with a sister who is only one year younger than me. As teens and young adults, she dated a couple of men that I had been with - after I broke up with them. Maybe our sisters are so enmeshed with us (or towards us?) that they either want to be us or destroy us. I want to better understand this phenomena.
@@angelcity007 I am leary of her to this day. If I am at a gathering, I'll get an eerie feeling like I'm being watched. It would be her standing off watching me as I talked with people. I am sorry you have this same kind of sister. It is sickening and scary at the same time. One of my sons, years ago, unbeknownst to him, got the same job her son had applied for. My son got the job and her son didn't. She showed up at my son's job for 2 weeks straight watching him work. My narcissistic mom covered for her ( sis's actions), by saying..." She loves your son so much, she was only checking on him to make sure he's ok". Truth is, she was stalking him because when he saw her, she dashed out of the bldg. You're right, our sisters are demonstrating one or two strange behaviors towards us. My other sisters do not have this problem. I am glad and sad at the same time to know I'm not alone. Thank You ❤
Thank you for your work - unfortunately most of - I myself in my fifties now the caregiver for abusers and a single mom whose own kids have all become part of the cult - most of us have NO WAY of escape - I tried everything over the years and nothing worked - they would sabotage - take custody of my kids - sue me - have me arrested etc. until I was a hundred percent financially and legally dependent - let alone an on and off alcoholic and deeply mentally Ill - I never got out - and for the last 12 years as my youngest child grew up - I lost all ability and hope of ever escaping. I have no one - all my friends and colleagues from my youth were left far behind and miles and miles away - I am haunted by so many uncanny misfortunes that it’s supernatural that I will always be subject to their control as proxies for “the devil” it seems - by 13 - which my youngest is now - each of my 3kids completely grew out of any need for me as a parent because of alienation - my family is just poor enough to make my needs like a car or eyeglasses impossible - but I am 100 percent responsible for all the business worries - cooking - cleaning -shopping - no escape - on medi caid I can’t find a therapist that I can work with at any depth - I am too crazy and broken to see my way out of this and I am college educated -actually have a degree in philosophy and English - studied everything under the sun to try to think my way out of my life - anyway I couldn’t get out and stay out and it’s now destroyed my children as well as my life - so I don’t know - that grief - that’s the one that feels like I have never known anything but hell and never will - sorry just venting
These are the terrible realities that FSA adult survivors face. I hope you find something of value on my channel here and support from other subscribers. You are welcome to vent here anytime. I realize it can seem impossible to find a way out; envisioning that it could be a possibility, even if you don't believe it, can be a 'good enough' first step. As I say in the video I will be releasing tomorrow: "Believe nothing - Entertain possibilities."
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse thank you so very very much😢🥲I had no idea you would respond to such an old video - I just found your channel because I am breaking down again and went to amazon to search if ANYTHING had yet been published on family scapegoating ~and there was your book! I ordered it immediately and looked you up on RUclips- thank thank for your work and amazing videos - I hadn’t searched for a year or more - narcissism doesn’t cover my situation - but today I faced another communal smack down in the face of a family emergency that I have to resolve while getting blamed and having no authority to fix - anyway sorry too babble - just can’t believe you’re here and you exist - there are so many of us out here - the modern world and ironically- feminism itself - has made our plight more invisible so more impossible for clinicians and the public to believe or understand - most people can’t see scapegoating because most families participate in it somewhere within their immediate or extended community - it’s been a blind spot since the dawn of time - it’s one of the lessons of the crucifixion itself - anyway you AND your comment back have given me hope - more than I could ever share - thank you so much 🙏- from Jennifer
Hi Jennifer, that was pretty much my experience when I was searching for the same type of resources several years ago, because you are correct: Not all families that scapegoat are a narcissistic family system - they can also be dysfunctional and are often highly traumatized systems (including intergenerational trauma, as described in my book). Hence my idea to publish something on the subject (as well as conduct qualitative research on what I ended up naming FSA). What I bring to the table is the Family Systems piece, which is critical to understand if you are scapegoated by family. Be sure to check out my playlist that addresses dysfunctional family scapegoating specifically (I have a separate playlist for narcissistic family systems). I release videos nearly every Saturday at 11 am PT; if you subscribe, tap the white bell and then click the button to be notified of new video releases. We have a nice community here; read the comments on the videos you most strongly respond to, you might receive some understanding and support from others here. It can help to break out of that sense of hopelessness you might be experiencing, and isolation. Glad you're here!
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse bless you - im so sorry - my mother is the most diabolical narcissist you could imagine - however, the scapegoat piece is often not elaborated enough in most literature - I am so grateful that you are focusing on this aspect - being the scapegoat of the narc all my life is like living with a heat seeking missel trained on my back 24/7 - it’s so horrific being alive day to day / but the damage to me and especially my kids over my lifetime is too devastating to even try to put into words - I wish there were an Underground Railroad for scapegoats cause I have never got out - thank you again
@@twoshea749"...it's one of the lessons of the crucifixion itself." ❤❤❤ Bringing your gifts of language and philosophy to the scapegoat phenomena should be interesting....looking forward to more of your posts....
Hi Rebecca, thank you for this, Dr Erin’s article on this is very insightful too. I think I’ve mentioned this before to you, you briefly mentioned being verbally abused by family in front of you. My experience however has been that I have been completely ignored by my older brother for 23 years. We have both been invited to family events over the years (except for one event that took place at his home so obviously I wasn’t invited and it didn’t need to be said, everyone just knew, so there was a separate gathering in a pub that my brother couldn’t stop me going to but he came to that too and ignored me!). This happened before I had learned about FSA and I wouldn’t tolerate this now, in fact I am now pretty much no-contact with all of my family which is better for my well-being, I never really enjoyed those gatherings anyway. My point is, instead of being overly verbally abused in front of others, I have been actively ignored by my older brother (the one who designated me the scapegoat), at all family gatherings for the past 23 years and all other family members have turned a blind eye, and even as I have learnt about FSA and discussed it with some other family members, I have been invalidated by them (which I know is to be expected), and crucially, nothing has changed. My brother ignoring me is just ‘how it is,’ it’s been there so long and his smear campaigns justify it, but it has resulted in me choosing not to be a part of them or my family as a whole anymore. I wonder how common this ignoring is? Because I hear a lot about people being verbally abused but not so much about being ignored by significant family members and this being excused by everyone else.
In relation to grief, this is the grief of not having a family to protect you and stand up for you. Even after telling my mom and my uncle how I feel this (not that I should have to!), they still take no action and I am expected to go along to a family gathering and be ignored by my brother and no-one say anything about it. As I write this I realise I still feel angry about it, but other times I feel sad.
I’m often moved to tears witnessing a families support for a sick patient of mine. And the shame & pain fluid on. But I get to witness that beauty, and it does exist & is just miraculous.
I never heard the end of how I was born 3 weeks late, caused my NM 16 hours of labor and was almost breech but turned myself around at the last moment. Lol. I knew what I was in for and probably didn't want to come out.
I'm a scapegoated adult and I do have a very difficult child but I will be mindful now on of speaking casually about it because that is abuse as well thank you for bringing this to my awareness
1) Join my new FSA Education online community for adult survivors on SUBSTACK at familyscapegoathealing.substack.com/. Subscribe for free to receive my FSA-related articles or become a paid subscriber to access Community features where you can engage with other FSA adult survivors via Group Chats and Discussion Threads.
2) Purchase my introductory book on Family Scapegoating Abuse (Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed) via this Universal Buy Link, which includes links to Amazon: books2read.com/intro2fsa.
*Access Dr. Erin Watson's comprehensive article on FSA and disenfranchised grief here:* www.scapegoatrecovery.com/2023/04/14/the-scapegoat-child-and-disenfranchised-grief/
Thank you for the link! Was looking for links on the email.
Fantastic article by Dr Watson, thanks for sharing!
@@eleanorjohnson1313 I will let Dr Watson know!
Excellent article. So incredibly validating. Thank you for linking it here. Thanks for all the work you do and for starting this grassroots movement.
Thank you for putting your time and research into this. This is my first time hearing anyone target this issue so directly/put it into words.
I find it difficult to accept the fact that in my family system, the narcissist has mostly every family member on her side. It's my mother. No one supports me nor the abuse I've endured from her. Why do people not want to hear my side of the story? Also, I feel like many therapists I've came across have zero knowledge in narcissistic abuse. It's all so isolating. FSA was very prevalent in my family. I'm the Scapegoat. I'm the isolated and unsupported one.
Hi Emily, Jay Reid just published a book on scapegoating and narcissistic parents that might help you with your question. I address this to some degree in my book, Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed but my focus is more on the highly traumatized dysfunctional family system. Ultimately, in a narcissistic family system, the family is functioning similar to a cult - same type of dynamics - and everyone has "drank the Kool-Aid" - meaning, they have been indoctrinated into the false "scapegoat narrative" by the power-holding, narcissistic parent. I have a couple of videos on this - Look for the one on how Narcissistic parents create a 'scapegoat' child.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thank you so much for responding! I am going to take your advice. I really appreciate your help! ☺️🙏✌️🕊️💞
Your not alone all of are here with you.
I sometimes wonder how she got everyone on her side. In my case, some used to agree, you are abused, especially in my 20s when some crazy stuff happened, but they are all afraid of her. I think the family broke apart more after I left. She lost some control after losing it over me, but no one came to get my side of the story which is on them. 10 years later they would not recognize me. That day will come for you too.
Same here in my family and extended family. My mom started early. The first incident I remember was when I was hospitalized as a 5 year old girl. My 4 year old younger brother who was my bff, sent his favorite “Teddy” bear to keep me company and connected. When I was released I wasn’t allowed to bring Teddy home because I was in an infectious control ward (why my pregnant mom couldn’t visit me). I threw a fit and was eventually cajoled into leaving Teddy behind with another boy who was sicker than me and staying longer. When we arrived home without Teddy my 4 year old brother threw a fit! Where’s Teddy? Mom or dad simply told him that I gave Teddy to a ‘sicker’ boy and left it at that. No explanation about USAF Military hospital protocols not allowing me to bring my stuffy home, no explanation of the fight I put up for Teddy or being persuaded to leave Teddy (how would I know that boy was sicker, staying longer?). I tried to explain but the damage was done. He was crushed, his most trusted sister/friend had betrayed him. He still brings it up *jokingly* from time to time.
Add up thousands of such insidious 1/2 truths only a 4 & 5 year old would believe unquestionably and I can see how my siblings & I were trained in our dysfunctional family system.
Narcissists are also very calculating, manipulative, & cunning. Long before the smear campaign they’ve already been buttering up the rest of the family or social group. Love bombing, sharing “concerns” about the target, making stuff up to make you look bad, claiming you said things you didn’t or twisting something innocent, loving even, into something dark & twisted to affect others’ impression of you. They’ll outright lie, spy, & take whatever’s yours.
Even 10 years later, you hear about people having lunch with a sister, visits with a loving family, even 70 year olds seeing cousins, and others, and you realize what you lost. It can be like a gut punch, seeing this huge part of life that is just gone. There's no getting it back. You miss what could have been and inside you ask "Why did things go this way?" The worse thing that malignant narcissists do is destroying having a family at all. Some of us who are childless etc, there's no family at all then. In my case I miss and grieve who should have been there, not the disappointments I got, the abusive people who gave me no choice but to walk. Another issue too, to function in society and protect yourself, this is grief, and a loss you must keep secret from all but the very close because people with normal families aren't going to understand why the scapegoat left in the first place or what happened. There's no public support, you're correct.
I do hope you can read Dr Erin Watson's article - I myself learned so much from it and it goes beyond the chapter about disenfranchised grief in my book. Link to Dr Watson's article here: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/2023/04/14/the-scapegoat-child-and-disenfranchised-grief/
So true, thank God I at least had a child/grandkids...
Thank you for this comment from the bottom of my heart. This is exactly the situation I am in, and I could have written every word you did. This sentence in particular: "You miss what could have been and inside you ask "Why did things go this way?"" hits home, hard. So often, when I boil down everything, all the dysfunction in my family, all the destroyed relationships etc., what I am left with is just an empty feeling of 'why did it have to be this way?'
Like you, I am also childless and at this age it will remain that way. I have nobody, no family (I was/am the scapegoat). This comment would be too long to if I got into detail but, again, I will just say your comment on the destruction not just of the relationship with the abusive parent but the relationships with everyone else, as well, the destruction of the *possibility* of a family.
Lastly you are completely right that the vast majority of people have no frame of reference for this and the knee-jerk reaction from so many to hearing a person has no meaningful family relationships is usually deep suspicion and awkwardness. So we keep it a secret. A massive secret, because this kind of thing isn't a minor issue in our lives. So there is the shame that comes with that as well, with having a whole part of yourself you can't share because of what it would cause others to think of you.
It's really very difficult to describe the level of dysfunction and destruction at work in these relationships and families. It feels too big for words.
Anyway I just wanted to thank you for your comment. To hear and know that someone, even a stranger on the internet, understands that it's real and it happened is so valuable.
And I thank YOU for your comment, @Lucysmom26 - I'm glad you are here and if you haven't yet subscribed, I hope you do - a wonderful community of FSA adult survivors is forming here.
@@Lucysmom26 I hear you and I thank you for your comment.😊
I'm the family scapegoat and the grief is unspeakable. When you're alienated from your family it makes you feel alienated from the world. And from yourself. The ultimate mind f__k.
It really is.
I get it. It’s the worst treatment. Be kind to yourself. And hopefully you’ll be able to start to heal and surround yourself with people who truly love you. I’m sorry for your pain.
So true
Me too
I think we should be supportive of each other, but I know how messed up it is. I’m done looking. Onwards and upwards *smiles* xxx
“Grief is masked by intense feelings of anger, betrayal, & hurt.”
As well as what I call ‘righteous rage’.
It’s almost unbearable. The pain. The betrayal. It feels like I’m slowly dying inside
❤❤
You won't die but it feels like that temporarily untill you heal ❤
I can relate. It's sad.
It is unbearable. You have a heart of flesh... Putting words on paper to pin the pain/betrayal can help us get through the lonely and difficult patches. And planning for and preparing meals help too. Gradually your heart of flesh will feel again... In time, fresh air will flow through your house again and and healing too. God bless!
Agreed! 💯 💜
I'm a thriving scapegoat that fled my family.of origin 12 years ago now which actually SAVED my life!
Allow yourself to grieve the loss of what you had wished you had....
Feel every agonozing emotion as it comes up in order to let it go.....
Never ever believe that you've done anything to deserve this....
Your big beautiful compassionate heart allowed you to stay much longer because you always had hope that things would change and your family miraculously loved you unconditonally such as you did them.....
You came to this planet to finally cut the toxic generational and ancestral repetative cycle so that it can no longer be superimposed upon your family lineage 🙏 Be proud of your strength and courage it took for you to actually achieve this very tall order which only a warrior soul can achieve. ❤
Thank you, Teresa.
Thank you ❤!
Thank you. You say it in a perfect way. ❤
Thank you so much for this! ❤
Yes ❤
Because my family of origin looks so "nice" and "good," when I naively tried to share my scapegoat story with relatives or friends, they would look real skeptical or annoyed, and try to get away fast. Your channel is a Godsend.
Thank you, Catherine, good to have you here in our community.
My sister is starting to have some awareness of her own abuse as the current scapegoat (Ive gone no contact but still try to get through o my other sibs- who I miss and love,) and she explained that that's how she felt, that that's probably why my other sibs dont call me back etc... they dont want to hear it because on some level they KNOW the truth and they cant face it, or dont want to, its like I have leprosy and acknowledgment is equivalent to being subject to catching it.
Hope your situation gets easier, whether because someone hears you or because you heal in spite of it. Wish the same for me and all of us.
Catheribetagney. Yes I think most people think that people capable of doing this would look or act a certain way in public. You would think people would know this by now bc history has shown that domestic abusers, pedophiles, even serial killers often look and act just like everyone else, sometimes even better.
@@CharlotteCrummMarketing that's a really good point n something that likely afflicts some families. Not sure how old you or they are but I would recommend after trying or sounds like you already did, pull back n let them reach out if/when they are ready. I think the more they reject you the worse they will feel in the future n be too embarrassed n shamed to reach out. You don't need them to validate what you already know.
@brandyk I wish I had heard that earlier, I tend to push and I did and yet again no responses but I’m going to take that advice going forward.
It’s doubly hard since I’m late diagnosed on the spectrum (which now kind of clarifies why I was the identified patient/scapegoat well before anyone knew that since I think they could see my inner weirdness and flawed early attempts at masking which made me a prime target for bullying.) but not having people to help you learn to unmask or reframe earlier memories etc.
Just have to wait and see if it ever happens. :/
When Dad was killed in a car wreck by a reckless, stoned driver, Mom asked me to pursue justice, said that I was the most capable of her children. So I did despite my obvious scapegoat status.
After two years and five months of careful lobbying to get the murder charge into court, we were notified that the trial was beginning. No similar murder conviction had ever been delivered, but the prosecutor used my argument to great effect, and the jury agreed unanimously. A sentencing date was set, and our family was asked for input.
Respecting Mom's wishes, I developed a thorough petition for the maximum sentence in light of the convict's horrible act. So, on the day of sentencing, I was called into the courtroom with the various attorneys to discuss the convict's future. The judge told me that great resources had been expended to find a similar conviction, but there wasn't one, and he suggested a maximum sentence may give the convict grounds for excessive sentencing. So, the prosecutor and I came to an agreement and the judge approved, saying, "RESPECT THE COURT!" and he slammed the gavel.
Walking out of the courtroom, I was confronted by a throng of friends, family, strangers and press members. Mom ran up and asked, "What did he say?" And I told her, "I can't tell you what's going to happen, we just have to respect the court." Then we proceeded to sentencing courtroom, where the convict was thoroughly, verbally undressed and sentenced to 25 years for murder.
Afterward, the prosecutors, friends and family met in the grand jury room to discuss what would transpire over the ensuing years. The prosecutor then said aloud to me (in front of everyone), "You have a gift: most people involved in this don't know what it's about, but you do! It's not about winning and losing, but about justice! If you ever decide to run for office, let me know: I will manage your campaigns, and we will change things!" Immediately, Mom stood up and said, "It doesn't matter what [my son] said in there, he doesn't represent the family!", repeating the spectacle as the meeting went on.
This was her behavior from the time I was a small child. Is it any wonder I walked way at 46 years of age?
This is both heartbreaking and a perfect example of the types of psycho-emotional injuries FSA adult survivors are subjected to, even when actively helping and supporting their family. One can only take so much, and then, one day, you're just DONE. Thank you for taking the time to share your story with us here.
Yeah! My family tried to have me criminally charged because I borrowed money to pay for emergency vet service when my dog had a stroke! I spent a year in court defending myself and when it was all said and done the state had to drop the charges bc they didn’t actually have the evidence to take me to trial! I stilm have to pay the state close to a grand to have the charges expunged even though they were dropped! My mother who called the cops and started this still can’t fogure out why i won’t speak to her! And my sister who is the real culprit sat behind the scenes with her law degree, egging my mother on! I don’t care if I ever see these people again in this lifetime or the next! They can have each other! They deserve each other!
Oh, what cruelty. Oh, oh, oh. I felt the same slap in the face time and again. Shocking. I’m sorry for what that subhuman did to you.
You are worthy of all good things and good people in your life. As I say this to you, I'm saying it to me. I have experienced similar things. As others have mentioned here, love and support yourself always. I've been no contact for 30 yrs. I now know what mutual friends are and I only engage w mutual friends. And animals of all kinds. Continue to be gentle with yourself.
No matter what mom said, you did what was right and just for your father. That's what was recognized by others in the room. Take that recognition and use it to focus your life and make it more purposeful. There is a blessing for you in this experience.
I'm better off alone. People really aren't worth all the drama ✌️peace and gratitude 🥰
Yes,l agree!
A hard lesson to learn but often true.
How well I understand your sentiments.
Soooooooo true! I’d rather be alone than deal with their bullsh*t
I wish we could be each other's family 👨👩👧👦. We've all endured the atrocities of having to live the role of the scapegoat which has been SO hard to bear.
That’s a wonderful thing to say. I bet we would all get along well.
Sounds good to me
Rejected, shamed and blamed. No support, kindness, care. Nothing from my family, community. ALONE. I left the country! Living my best life, with my two best dogs.
Animals can be a critical aspect of healing from FSA, as so many adult survivors have discovered. Here's an FSA survivor resource list I put together in case you are wanting additional information and support: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
I moved abroad to live my best life.
Yay!
I'm a family scapegoat. I didn't really have to separate myself from them because they separated themselves from me. I have seen a lot of therapists through the years. I'm 62. It's just been in the last five years or so that I have known about narcissistic abuse. I learned about scapegoating a couple years ago. I can remember mentioning to more than one therapist that I was grieving because of the messed up relationships with my family. That grief was never really addressed. You sure hit the nail on the head when you said this grief is hidden. We can't talk about it in public because we will be told we're over sensitive, crazy etc. Or, some people just don't want to hear this sort of thing. I was a human punching bag and never really knew it. I felt like I was a punching bag at times. But my family was quick to correct me anytime I wanted to address any wrongdoing by them. I can't put into words how terrible I feel inside at times because of what they have done to me. And, they go around like nothing is wrong. They continue to live life to the full. My family is very materialistic. My siblings all have their own family issues now. They have bad or no relationships with their kids and spouses. Lots of family problems. But, they can take expensive vacations and live the high life. I could go on and on about this. But I won't. I've left a long enough comment as it is lol. I try to explain my family dynamics to my friends. But, I don't think they understand. I'm a religious person. I do my best to be a Christian. I look forward to the next life because this one is just so messed up. I do find solace in nature and in Bible study. I have a therapist. So, I manage. But, my family has almost totally destroyed me. I do not want anything to do with them ever again. Period. Thanks for the video. I do appreciate information that explains some of the craziness that comes from being a family scapegoat.
Thank you for sharing a bit of your story with us, Jeanette. Many people in this community will understand. You might find my book, Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed, helpful as well, and I also offer free articles about FSA on my blog: scapegoatrecovery.com/blog.
Jeanette, I feel like you wrote this post abt myself too. I am a Christian, my family has destroyed me emotionally. I pray and ask God to just take me, this life is not worth living. The scapegoating, and narc abuse has been daunting. They have stolen from me financially, been exploitive, and tried to ruin my life as much as possible. I keep asking the Lord to give me a break, to bless me with something good, so I keep waiting. Im too exhausted some days to do much of anything.. Im burned out of the struggle just wanting the basics in life.. Ill pray for you, please pray for me too! Blessings! 🙏🌻
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thank you for putting out your wonderful videos to help us all heal.
Thank you for sharing 🙏
I always cringe when I think of the commandment of honouring your mother & father ... What about abusive mothers & fathers? And what about parents honouring their children? Things like this turn me off the bible, but I do believe in the Holy Trinity 🙏
@@onelittledropintheocean yes , I understand.. God certainly doesn’t want us to be abused, by anyone including parents. Its is perfectly healthy to distance oneself as adult children from abusive parents. I was torn over this for years, so what I did was confront my mother over the years abt her abuse, explained how it negatively effected me, and gave her opportunity to recognize what she did, with the opportunity to apologize .. and stop the abuse to continue having relationship with me. She remains at 89 unapologetic . and if given the chance will continue to cross boundaries if given the chance. I pray for her, and leave with Jesus to handle, but I keep my distance.. to protect myself from further abuse. Forgiveness is important as Jesus says we must do, with me it’s a continuation .. day by day. We arent to abuse them in term, but stand firm.. on what we will tolerate. Soon as those boundaries are overstepped.. I withdraw attention.. and state my feelings.. with … something like, “ mom u are over stepping your boundaries with me. This is not healthy for me, therefore it’s up to you to make changes, or I will continue to stay away.
( for elderly, I give care to her.. for her needs .. but draw the line.. and tolerate no abuse. Hopes that helps! God bless ❤️🙏 praying for you.
It's really so true the greif your describing. It's like your whole family has died and your feeling so alone , but it's worse then having them all die because the real truth is your greif is really that your whole family doesn't love you or want you anymore and your completely rejected and treated like almost a criminal when you know you've never done anything to them that warrants the way they have treated you and abandoned you. And you loose your extended family also. It's a no win situation and you don't deserve to be treated like that especially when you've spent your whole life loving and being there for your family members and sacrificed your whole adult life to being their caregiver when they were in great need. It's overwhelmingly hopeless feeling sometimes and is so cruel
It’s like being on trial for a crime that you didn’t commit and even given a death sentence. Rebecca did a video on that recently where she mentioned Franz Kafka’s works and especially his book’The Trial’. She said that a lot of family scapegoats can relate to his writing.
Hi Lynny, I hope you also read Dr Watson's article that goes along with this video (we are colleagues); it is very powerful. I know I myself got a lot out of it!
I hear you lynny ... I hear you, sister.💞💞
@@christar9527 Thanks for mentioning that video, I'm going to look for that one. A decade ago I felt like I was living Kafka's "The Trial," I'd love to see that explained in this context.
Your post literally brought tears to my eyes and a familiar pain in my heart
Being alone and lonely became "normal" for me. No family, short lived "friends", moving locations a lot, always searching but not knowing why or for what....
It does send us on inner and outer journeys, doesn't it? I sometimes wonder where that original goat ended up from the Old Testament!
That scapegoat in the Old Testament is a picture of what happened in the New Testament on a certain when the sky went black.
On that day, we learn from the prophet Isaiah, that the INVISIBLE Hand of God put on Another all the sins of mankind.
Isn't it interesting that the Truth of that reality is so twisted and perverted. Puts a whole new understanding on what is, what was, and who is behind what is still going on.
The scapegoat in the Old Testament died. But the scapegoat in the New Testament, died then arose from the dead.
All of that doesn't mean what we scapegoats here have experienced, the pain, shame, being blamed for EVERYTHING is not real, IT'S VERY REAL. It hurts like he'll. But the Truth behind the scapegoat in the Old Testament opens the gate of a different perspective in understanding.
Belief/Faith in the New Testament scapegoat allows you to see, to perceive, to understand. The journey of restoration still must be traveled.
For me, letting scripture interpret scripture, opened up understanding.
I know few will agree. I am not trying to persuade. But what I have seen cannot be taken away. Jane
There were two goats in the Old Testament. One was slaughtered/sacrificed and one was set free to carry the sins of the tribe.Does the bible ever say where that 2nd goat ended up?
Hi Rebecca
The reply I sent vanished. What other way may I send the information to you? Jane
contact@scapegoatrecovery.com
95% of my grief was felt as a child. My collie dog would always come to me when i cried, & his long, thick fur soaked up all of my tears.
I spent my childhood caring for my siblings. I washed diapers, changed diapers,fed infants, disciplined my toddler siblings, potty trained my siblings, cooked for the whole family when i was so young that i had to push a chair up to the stove to stand on to fry potatoes or scramble eggs. I functioned as the mother. Unlike my siblings. I wasn't allowed to have friends or participate in after-school activities. I would confront my mother about treating me like a red headed step child, & why she treated an older brother like he was a prince. She never had any answers when I asked her why she at least didn't try to hide her favortism for my older brother. I told her it was very hurtful to all of us, & I told her that she knew it hurt the rest of her kids, but didn't care. When I left at 18, I had no grief or homesickness. It felt like I was on a vacation.
Amazing you could open up to the grief at such a young age. I used to cry as a child on the branch of a beautiful Elm tree I would climb onto, sheltered by its comforting leaves. Thank goodness for the embrace of nature (and pets).
Same here. I was the "nanny" to many younger siblings and I genuinely LOVED them all. Mother was usually drunk or on pills or both and I did the cooking, cleaning, first aid, etc. for my sibs. I don't recall ever being a child, myself, because I was always just the "temporary help" for a mother who got pregnant at the drop of a hat but had ZERO interest in being a mother. 7 children were born in a short span of years, starting when my parents were 18. I was the second daughter born within a year of the first girl. My elder sister is cruel and selfish. She and I were close by force when we were young ( we had to share a room and a bed ) but she always hated the fact of my existence. She tried to kill me more than once and "stole" any friends I had by telling them how awful I was. She even scooped up my first 2 boyfriends by sexually seducing them and married one of them. He had family money, that's why. Long story short: people who scapegoat you don't love you. They can't. They can only use and abuse you until you die. Get away, stay away.
Same thing, and it started with my mother when I was a small child. It's still going, and she's in her late 80s.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Yes, I did too, for the love of a good tree & my beautiful little dog, that's where I poured my heart & felt like me.
@@jabbermocky4520 Me too, I liken it to being like Cinderella but no happy ending. X
I am truely alone since walking away from my family in 2018. I realised I was attracted to so called friends who suck the nice out of me. Invalidated me. Denigrating my lived experience. I have cut a lot of people off. it is painful but necessary. I couldnt live another day putting myself last.
Anyone reading this: Rebecca's book is life-changing. She's what you've needed all this time.
Glad you found my book helpful!
I had a friend that accused me of being cold and unemotional to her crying and suffering. I told her that I was afraid that if I started crying that I would not be able to ever stop. I am still cautious about “opening the floodgates” of my grief. There has been so much astounding loss from being a FSA victim. It takes tremendous courage to become a survivor because you have to acknowledge the evil.
I understand this one first-hand, Mary. Glad you are here. BTW, look up the Rumi poem, 'Bird Wings' - It is on grief...but has a surprising ending (!)
Your last sentence is so true. God bless you.
l, too, worry about beginning to cry and grieve. The numb anger/rage is where l am right now. I appreciate your thoughts.
you need to let it out. all the best. hugs.
I'm not sure others get to tell us what our emotional responses should be. But if you were uncomfortable with it, that's different.
I only recently figured out that it was not my imagination that my family (except father) loved hurting me, trying to cripple me. Left alone at hospitals as a child, shamed for things I didn't do, lies spread about me - the way they got excited insulting me, mocking me.
I'm old, preparing for end of life. Knowing how evil they are & how they managed to sabotage me over the years, I realized I did NOT in fact benefit from being included & was actually fortunate my mother drove me out of house too young.
I broke away, moved 1000s miles away. I made mistakes, but I survived. I did NOT belong in that family & was lucky I got away to live my own life. They told lies about me, my sister screamed how disgusting I was & how she hates me still. Why did I ever try to fit into that?
Taking a different view of the situation was what finally restored my confidence. I changed from seeing myself as a victim, to a person who lived with people I respect, to be a success, to be able to hear their insults as germs I was never going to be infected by. The new view revealed how fortunate I am that I have my Dad's inner strength to escape from their toxicity. I will never be like them, what a wonderful feeling.
A powerful story of overcoming the narcissistic family system legacy - and the damaging 'scapegoat narrative' FSA adult survivors get saddled with. Thank you for taking the time to share with the community here.
Same here , huge hug for you ❤
Brilliant..ditto
Scapegoated people are the designated trash receptacles for people who have personality defects they are unwilling to address. What they feel about any unpleasant situation will be "your fault" no matter whether you are involved or not. They dump all their psychological and emotional garbage on you. Because they can. Get away, stay away. It's the only way you can live a satisfying life whether it's alone or with people who deserve your trust. Your family doesn't deserve your trust when they automatically treat you like trash.
So glad you made it and survived. May you be empowered. ❤
It sometimes seems the grief is endless 😢 Especially due to the fact that we often get involved with the same personality types and retraumatized and scapegoated and either abandoned or forced to leave over and over again. 🤷♀️
This cycle is HORRIBLE and takes an ENORMOUS amount of fortitude to overcome. 🙌
No one who hasn't experienced it could POSSIBLY understand. The betrayal and abuse and lack of accountability in your very own family causes a cognitive dissonance that sometimes seems impossible to overcome.
I read somewhere that abuse and torture (essentially) by one's own family or country or tribe is far worse and causes extreme helplessness - even more than when the source is an enemy or a foreign country or a warring tribe. It's terrible 😔
Can't argue with any of what you say, Kimberly. When we lived indigenously, we were dependent on our tribe to survive. We were protected BY the tribe as well. Family scapegoating turns all of this upside down. This is why, in my opinion, it is perhaps the most difficult form of abuse to understand, recognize, and recover from.
My husband and I have been together over 20 years but no one from my family knows we are married & there were no relatives at our wedding. I didn't go to either my under- or post- grad graduations because I didn't want to be the only one there alone. I chose not to have children incase I subconsciously treated them the way I was treated. There is a lot to grieve for for FSA survivors. I grieve for the 'normal' life, that most people take for granted, that I never got to have. Thank you for your channel and your work. Despite years of therapy, it's the first time I've begun to understand what happened to me.
Glad you're here, Wendy. You just reminded me of some of my own losses related to FSA that I had not remembered in a long time. The losses are great, indeed.
Sounds like me. We eloped to a JOP, since we both had been on our own for quite some time. In the Wills, Trusts, documents where I am named, my older GC sister insisted on using my childhood last name, even though I dropped it completely, and putting my married name in parentheses, as if I'm not really married because she didn't personally eyeball the marriage certificate. She didn't do this to my little sister.
Also did not attend a lot of my graduation ceremonies. Was still in scapegoat mode and instructors, and some classmates were brutal.
Also chose not to have children when I was younger. Miscarriages and stillbirth after marriage in later 30s. No live births. But not sure my mother didn't affect my entire endocrine system by taking something when I was in the womb, given by her doctor, that she conveniently couldn't remember the name. Ancient story....almost time to go home.... 2:15
Same here. But in my case, I realized my desire not to have children was due to parentified childhood. I feel your pain and wish you strength
I was on my own since my 20s. My entire family is mentally ill. I just left and got on with my life.
Indeed, some situations are so severe the clarity comes early on.
The pain of disenfranchised grief was the most intense thing I have ever been through.
You and me both ... I'm trying to get out of it. I need the Lord Jesus to help me here because it is absolutely soul crushing. This validating video may be part of the healing process here. These words of confirmation and validation may be the balm that finally cures the infection. I will have a scar, I will remember and know the pain, but at least the wound will fiiiinally be closed.💞💞🙏🙏🙌🙌🙌
@@angelapastorius2377 yes. ❤️
It was for me too, for 70 years! I learned to take a Different View of sorrow, rage, despair over twisted cruel family.
I now feel very fortunate to have NOT been like that family. My father would have stood up for me when I was diagnosed with Alzheimer's but he died first. I relabeled friends over my life (most have died by now) as my real family, my dogs too. I have pictures of real Family and dogs in my bedroom. I finally saw NOT being part of that family as Divine Intervention to help me find a good life.
Learning to look at things from another view saved me from future self torture, I learned how to do it from a Rabbi who posts messages on RUclips.
The stress of feeling like an abused hostage caused me lots of health problems. I survived & am embracing my neighbors as my real family, fantastic how good it feels to be free of toxic past.
@@DreamsOfFinland This is true.... my friends' families are NORMAL. Without them for a frame of reference, I wouldn't have been able to understand I had nothing to grieve, because the people I thought were "family" were not capable of love to begin with. My role model for parenting and family is now my friends with normal family dynamics.
❤
I never felt any emotional support while growing uo so I learned early in life that what I thought or felt about anything was of no consequence at all . Multiple times when I was quite young my covert narc mother during her daily rages screamed at me that I had 'no right' to be angry or upset about anything - only her feelings were valid . By the time I was 14 I knew my relevance in the family was zero . I was there to support and validate everyone else despite never having these supports shown to me . Part of the parentification process I assume . Grief has been present at times but mostly the anger and loneliness of being forced into the scapegoat role in the first place . Better alone than near that sorry lot who will no doubt still be wreaking havoc on their own families as they repeat the ingrained abuse that permeates the entire family . Mostly the feeling of Good Riddance prevails .
Good example of why often the term 'estrangement grief simply does not apply!
It is very sad to hear, when I was 14, my mother call me a whore...
YOU SHOULD HAVE GONE TO THE POLICE AND PUT THAT ON THE RECORD. AND TOLD EVERYONE! MADE HER ANSWER FOR THAT.
This is my story. Family scapegoat here. 🐐 Right now I’m in the righteous anger stage. I’m mad as hell and can’t seem to get through this stage of grief. They ostracized me for 13 + years then came back to “help” me when I was diagnosed with cancer. Suddenly here they were... back again. Soon enough I learned my narcissistic dad & his narc wife were trying to find out if my will was complete and how they could get their hands on my assets once I’m gone. After they isolated & left me for dead all those years!!! 😈😈😈 I believe all the abuse growing up by my dad & his wife that continued well into adulthood (along with mistreatment by a half sister & extended family) is why I developed life threatening high blood pressure, pre-diabetes and metastatic cancer. When I stood up to the abusers they turned the whole family away from me. I will die with the legacy of being the rejected unloved scapegoat. What a life...
Maybe to them, but outside of those toxic and dysfunctional perceptions, you are the MOST sane, the MOST powerful and the MOST capable. If they were so great, they wouldn’t need to fake grovel just to get your money/assets. Imagine living that way? Needing to put on an entire performance just to gain something? If they were such healthy and amazing people, they would have their own and wouldn’t need to fake concern to get something from you. I am so sorry for everything you’ve been through and continue to go through. I wish you healing and peace. You deserve it 🤍
Same here. As soon as they found out I had cancer, they all rallied around me to appease their guilt.
As soon as I went into remission, I suddenly became the bad guy. They went back to their old behavior of abuse, gaslighting and ghosting.
If my cancer should return, I'm not telling anyone!!!
Leave them an apathetic letter and double-duty cmake sure your will leaves them nothing more than a baggie of cat poop. And all the guilt you can get even with!
as soon as my family (except dad) found out I inherited Alzheimer's they started to undermine me. Never one word of comfort, lots of trying to sabotage any care, told my adult kids I was insane, just brutal cruelty. My mother discarded (illegally) an agreement between me, my father & her to help me financially when I could no longer work. They tried to cripple me, sabotaged my marriage. Even cousins joined the maliciousness.
The joy is great that I finally realized how lucky I was to not be part of their way of life. I survived a lot of stuff, I never became like them & my father would be proud of me for escaping. I am proud I am not part of that family.
God bless you Hope you feel supported by this community xxxxx❤❤❤❤❤
My daughter was killed by a hit and run driver a little over a year ago.I have serious chronic health problems. I am having marital problems and having asked my sisters for emotional ( not financial ) support.
The more my life has gone wrong, through no fault of mine, the more my three sisters ignore me. I have two children left whom I don’t burden with my issues and NO FAMILY. So devastated .
I'm so very sorry for the tragic loss of your daughter. I do hope you find support and comfort here. I'm also linking you to a list of resources I put together for FSA adult survivors. The facebook group (private) run by Rhonda may be particularly helpful: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
🫂
Alanon is a great support system for all grievances.. changed my life😊
I’m so very sorry. We have to love ourselves.
My family has never been there for me no matter how awful things were I have nothing to do with them I would not lift a finger for them no matter what was happening to them I was once told " match the level of commitment" and l find that a very good way to deal with them
I recently celebrated the happiest birthday I ever had. I went no contact before I turned 71 yrs old. Enjoying the company of like- minded people.
Wonderful to hear, Patty. It is never too late to reclaim one's life. And Happy (belated) Birthday!
My mom called me crazy starting when I was six. She never stopped and taught everyone to believe their was something wrong with me. I am 64 and was never able to recover from the ptsd. I don't trust people. I am not able to feel accepted in a group. Will this ever end? I don't think so. Disenfranchised grief.
Your experience as shared here mirrors the main thrust of the article I posted from my guest blogger this month, Dr Erin Watson. Here's the link in case you missed it: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/2023/04/28/betrayal-trauma-and-family-scapegoating-abuse/
Have you read complex PTSD from surviving to thriving by Pete Walker? I highly recommend it. It has helped me understand a lot about my symptoms.❤
😢😊🎉@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse
It seems to never end, the toxic people I must remove from my life.
They are everywhere..... It's like playing constant Frogger.
I finally went No Contact from my barely existent mother, malignant narcissist sister (who ran the show), and two other flying monkey sisters. Six months later, my son was diagnosed with colon cancer. Throughout the 3 years of watching him slowly die, I never received one single word of comfort from any of them. So, at the same time that I was grieving the loss of my "family" I was also grieving the imminent loss of my son, my only child. That was my punishment for being the truthsayer. Ryan died June 29, 2021. He was 45 years old.
This is devastating. I am so very sorry, Denise. My deepest condolences regarding the loss of your precious son.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse 💕
@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse The only reason I am still here is because I promised my son I would stay. I considered breaking that promise every single day. My first conscious thought each morning was, "Is today the day?" With weekly therapy for the past 2 years, and medication for C-PTSD and Bi-polar, I am slowly....very slowly....making my way forward. Thank you for recognizing the severity of FSA. It is unbearable.
I'm glad that via my naming this form of systemic, psycho-emotional abuse (FSA), adult survivors have a more precise way of describing what happened to them in their families.
I ❤ am so sorry for your loss ❤️
What is most amazing to me is, in all the comments, of all the different webcasts on this topic of narcissistic or dysfunctional scapegoating, it's like we all lived in the same families with all the same people, doing the same things! There is someone who can relate to my life. Wow! I am so glad I did not commit suicide during the period of the darkest time of my grief when I first moved away from my "family tribe." I would have died feeling as though I was absolutely alone in this FSA struggle, as I didn't even know such a thing existed! At 62, I so thank God I am living long enough to know that I am not alone, and way better off now than I ever imagined within that thing called "blood family origin" that literally almost killed me. As always, thanks so much Dr. Mandeville. You, your wisdom, knowledge and understanding, are such a blessing to those who have so desperately needed it!🙏🏽💯❤️
You're very welcome, Alice. Good to know my work on FSA has been helpful.
❤❤❤
I am 63, and I just found out last may. Of all this family system. And, it is not easy. However, I find strength in my spirituality. I treat myself with respect. I left. I have half my family there. Especially, one sister. God bless her soul. Now, they could call me stupid, sensitive, drama queen. I know who I am. I know that I am worth it. Treat yourself with self care. You are not alone. We are a family.
@@mcdanygirl Thank you, and God bless you too, for allowing Him to use your encouraging words at a most precise time of my life. 🙏🏽 In short, I just learned over the weekend from a sweet cousin (also a scapegoat) and a longtime friend from my hometown, that my little sister is having a 60th B'day Black tie Ball. They were both invited, I'm not invited, and wouldn't even know about it had they not mentioned it. And truly not out of spite. My older sister had hers 3 years ago, I only heard about it because of a photo. Over these last 10 years living away from them, by the Grace of God, and help of my husband, true friends, and people like Dr. Mandeville, I truly have been healing from all that FSA. If you don't have her book "Rejected, Shamed & Blamed, on FSA, you should. What a blessing it's been to me. But, when I heard about the Ball, I felt like Cinderella and her 2 evil "not step" sisters all over again, and it hurt in a way I wasn't expecting. Since I heard about it, I have been thanking God I recovered from that moment quicker than it used to take by continuing to live my blessed life with my wonderful husband now. And, here God inspired you to send this lovely message to confirm I have worth, I am accepted as family, understood, and I am not alone. Thanks so much, may God continue to richly bless you and every part of your life just for being such a blessing this morning! Have a wonderfully blessed day!🙏🏽😇💯
@@alicemariecuthbert9276 Celebrate the wonderful relationships you have because they are so much sweeter than those you left behind!
I've figured out that watching videos of therapists who know this issue well and talking to people in the comments section is really helpful especially during the grieving process. We are not as lonely as we think we are, there are so many of us out there, even though most people will not talk about it face-to-face!
Indeed - And this is yet another aspect of disenfranchised grief - The fact that there are few people who understand this form of psycho-emotional abuse, depriving one of appropriate types of support during recovery. Including social support.
The grief I felt - once I finally had completely burnt myself out at 53 was absolutely huge!
I am still going through and reprocessing my entire life. It’s been horrible and still is-as you absolutely correctly identify-people don’t understand what it’s like, so it’s very isolating.
I always knew there was something “off” with my childhood because I never felt part of the family.
I genuinely thought I was adopted from a very young age. (Pre 4) and wanted to run away from home.
Oldest of 2f and 2m, with a name close enough to my mums much envied little sister.
Close enough to remind mum daily via watching my dad dote on me-like her own father did when he came back from ww2.
Was totally scapegoated from my earliest memories, left London in 1989 as a 21 year old for Perth Western Australia and have been here ever since.
My life has been narcissistic partners and friends, people pleasing 24/7, partying way too hard, raising 3 kids on my own-while studying and working-with undiagnosed ADHD.
It all fell apart almost 3 years ago with a complete mental and physical breakdown.
I’m now an absolute recluse-can spend days alone as my entire life has been pretty much spent “serving others” or fawning -just like I did as a child.
I have zero left to give to anyone.
I have a gorgeous dog, bought a little bit of land and spend days there creating a garden, my safe spot. ❤
Thank you for your videos. 😊
My pleasure. Thank you for sharing a bit of your story with us. Glad you're here.
It's very interesting that you said you thought you had been adopted. For years, I TOLD everyone that I was adopted. Even at that young age, I knew something was very, very wrong and I didn't belong with those people.
Take good care of yourself. You are well loved by the universe.
You are in the right place.... nature is sooo healing. I get such comfort and joy doing gardening myself. It is nature's medicine.
Sending you tons of love and healing energies ❤❤❤
It sounds like heaven to me. It's time for you to rest, take care of yourself, and do absolutely nothing. For as long as you want ❤️🩹
Thanks for your kind words ❤️❤️
it’s very eye opening and confronting when suddenly your childhood makes more sense.
yet now it does at least I can move forwards knowing it wasn’t so much me; it’s a mix of historical trauma, birth order, gender, temperament and even the bloody name! 🤦♀️
Things well out of any child’s control.
Sending much love to you’s ❤️
I actually grieved the loss of my four sisters, the scapegoating n toxicity was just too much for me. Thankyou for putting a name to this loss as I cried n isolated myself for over two years. Its now been 7years since I walked away from this toxic and scapegoating situation, I've learnt to finally be a free spirit learnt to stand stronger on my own and accepted I'm mot that bad crazy person they named me! Finally I found out since I removed myself from this situation they have turned on each other! Never will I go back karma is bliss!!
You held onto your humanity by being able to honestly feel. That is a victory in and of itself.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse thankyou that means so much to me xx
Appreciate your comment, I’m currently in the beginning stages of isolating & grieving the loss of my entire family (I was one of 5 daughters as well) I cry, SOB, every day & have never felt more alone but also a little empowered at the same time. Your story gives me hope there’s a light at the end of the tunnel. ❤
@@buchrisss thankyou for your kind words. It's not easy letting go! Sometimes you have to let go to find who you are. My thoughts n prayers are with you xx 🙏
I feel like I lost everything because of FSA. I was never loved, never had a career (which I longed for and tried very hard to pursue), never had a home (almost what you would call homeless at times) or moved constantly, never had a real partner, never had children and especially I lost my identity.
I only realized what was happening in my FOO right after my father died (which was a relief for me because he was the head narcissist). It began with a phone call to a helpline. I soon had a vision pop into my head where huge, thick, very high, metal prison doors were opening for the first time in my life and I was stepping out into the bright sunlight. I was about 58. I’ve been learning about narcissism and narcissistic abuse for the last few years but I’m only beginning to learn how to heal from it. I’m stuck in righteous rage and feeling betrayed with some hurt feelings. I’m also very exhausted.
Dr. Watson’s article was the most validating thing I’ve come across. None of the counselors I’ve had ever knew anything about what I was going through. I was just told by my prescribing psychiatrist that I have to see their counselor and that I have to educate him. I told her flat out that I’m too exhausted. I realize that my chances of improving my external life are hopeless but I can change my internal state. I could definitely use some help with grieving.
I'll make sure that Dr Watson is aware of your comment. I do believe she may also be taking clients, you might get in touch with her. I loved her article as well. 'Exhausted' is a most apt word - Having to explain again and again and people (including some Mental Health professionals) still don't get it is a special type of exhaustion, indeed.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thank you for your reply. I would like to work with Dr. Watson but she’s probably really expensive though right? Anyhow, thank you for forwarding my comment to her.
I'm checking to see Dr Watson's availability...
@christar9527 I can totally relate. We are not alone. Around 40 is when I started to really make sense of what happened and was still happening (by phone, video chat, etc), thanks to therapy. There's also a lot of righteous rage in me, it's been there for as long as I can remember, but only now know the source. Best of luck to you. May you and others like us find peace and strength.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thank you for that point. "Exhaustion"
There is no better word to sum it up at this point ... I'm 55 and feel just like christar.
Just want to send love, respect, psychic support, and wishes for a lovely day to anyone who is anywhere in this process. It's huge. I go in and out and around. The nightmares are rare, my ruminations come and, better, go, I've educated a little support team. Seems like the abusers have sorta picked up steam since my going nc with their theatrics and false narratives but, I think, I'm getting strong enough....to fall apart a bit and begin to grieve. So thankful for everyone here!
My abusive foo defintely picked up steam when I went nc with them. I felt like an escaped convict being sabbotaged and road blocked. I'm so sorry you're dealing with that too. So grateful for this community.
thank you. I wish you all best too xx
@@karenbeukemaeinstein5073 yeah it's funny, you think they'd be happy right if we're such a problem. Interesting how that works. I once said something similar to my brother who was still criticizing me as he was blaming me n essentially saying I was ill while at same time saying he wanted to have a relationship with me n saying it's hurtful to him when I travel home to the state he is in but only saw my friends when I was in town. I said I don't understand if you really think all these things about me that you've said this past 2-3 yrs,why you would even want to see me much less be offended or hurt "
I read Dr. Watson's article. It is 100% what I am experiencing. I have given up on therapy. Maybe I do not understand how therapy works, but I never feel seen. The only support I have has been through your channel. Thank you. It really has helped. I don't feel as crazy, guilty, or confused.
Nancy, have you ever visited the 'Out of the Fog' complex trauma forum?
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse I don't think so. I will google it. Thank you
❤ Nancy~ Have you considered working on your attachment? Not being seen is a trauma response. Work to become securely attached & you could repel Narcs etc. 🌟🌟🌟
Ditto!
@@taffytaffy1451 Thank you for the suggestion. How is working on attachment done? Is their a specific type of therapist or therapy that addresses this? I have watched videos on the different attachment styles.
Dear Dr. Mandeville, thank you so much for addressing this topic. I have been scapegoated for 70 years now and finally have some understanding of it. I grieve not having a real family that really loved me. I do NOT grieve the death of my mother, I am GLAD she is dead. Have not missed her for a second. When my brother dies I will have a little private party, the world will be a better place for me without him. It would have been nice to feel otherwise though.
You're welcome. Your feelings are understandable!
You're welcome!
@klarmy8824 I fully understand.
@@innia2445 Thank you for that, but I am sorry to hear it, that you didn't have a "real" family either.
I can relate to your feelings and I’m so glad you shared them because heaven forbid when I say those sentiments, I’m immediately corrected … “you don’t mean that!” Oh yes . Yes I DO MEAN IT!!!
Grief over events that cannot be publicly acknowledged or validated openly.
I told my toxic family many times that because of them, I grieve alone! When I lost another parent, grief x10 happens because of THEM! I was their target. It took me one funeral, 7yrs domestic abuse survivor therapy, then my recent narcissist fathers funeral 21yrs later to Super Nova, Armageddon my family. My grief can have its very sad and rough moments. I live in my right now life and train my thinking to not ruminate about all of their awfulness. The truth never changes. Their ugly truth is no longer my problem. The other side of my grief is my relief! I am so enjoying my orderly quiet life today. Trying to re socialize myself outside my close circle is something I am not willing to do yet. Today is a holiday. It is very hard to shut off my memories. Their list of awful is decades long. I feel like I live with CPTSD. BEWARE! they will Hoover you and attempt to suck you back into their horrors.
You may not be ready to re socialize for a very long time. Sometimes, isolating is required in order to heal your psyche. Don't rush it 🎉
@@dgvfsa66but don't isolate for too long, because it's harder to come back the longer it's been.
i am a narcissistic abuse survivor,and was the scapegoat in my very toxic family i have ptsd, and the pain and grief are still painful all these years later love the video
Thank you, glad you’re here.
Going through the loss of my daughter two years ago, , She was my heart and soul,,,, much harder and another layer of grief when the family and "friends" dont acknowledge, or feel this, or remember her...no funeral, no contact, no cards or calling on the Holidays Weaponizing isolation, people trying to force me out of town, Extinguish my happiness and I finally stopped doing my art..Spread from family to my community.,,,One day i will disappear with my cat and my bike and my car...All will Rejoice !!
I'm so deeply sorry for your loss - and the lack of support. Sadly, I see this all too often. Linking you to a list of resources I put together in case you see something helpful: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
Thank you so much for talking about "disenfranchised grief."
This ministered to my heart simply for the acknowledgement. I feel like an alien here. Your understanding helps me to feel a little less ostracized.💗
You're welcome, Angela. Glad this video felt validating.
As I process more of my Grief , i realize that its mostly because how much of my self and dreams i sacrificed for others , because my desperate need to belong to a family , more over how that family never worked out .
I also have come to accept that most of my trauma wasn't really about what directly happened to me , for i was not allowed to really have a self to be directly hurt , most of my trauma comes from vicarious abuse , not being able to save or help others taking all the blame and responsibility but given no power.
These are where i gain a sense of helplessness , Why i projected that no matter what i did , it was not good enough , because i couldn't save my family , in particular my Mother then later my Sister and now it feels like my Neice ,
(my father brother nephews i guess because of my socialization from society i never felt that as strong with them as i do feel with the women in my family)
but my regrets , my grief the real trauma is from them , All of the bad that happened to me i never really blamed anyone or anything because i still felt a sense of control , even after being raped and sex trafficked myself i always felt in control to some degree . But the powerlessness comes from the root of not being able to save, protect, and provide for my mother and she made sure of it .
Its so bad that even in my dreams when I'm being attacked and i hit back it does nothing like i have no strength sure i can use telekinesis or something in the dreams but if i physically hit most times nothing just a sense of helplessness and powerlessness , i will wake up after most times , but the times I dont it then becomes a nightmare .
thank you for this video i believe this is my last part feeling my own grief and moving thru it , again thank you i needed a space to release this before i tell my therapist .
Thank you for sharing this part of your story, and always good to find a comment from you. When one has such great empathy and compassion for others, it can feel that there is no personal 'selfhood' - but your 'true-self nature' certainly shines through in your comments here, and, I'm sure, in other areas of your life, and we are all blessed by it.
Disenfranchised grief encompasses so much, more than missed opportunities or relationships that died, it's also - primarily- about pain that is blamed onto the scapegoat. Remember, scapegoats are blamed for everything in the family that's going wrong, so when it emerges a situation where you have to leave it to go forward in life, it's the scapegoat that's blamed for all the resulting problems.
So, it might emerge the dysfunctional family blames the scapegoat for all the problems, and the scapegoat privately knows the family was toxic enough without any input from yourself, there comes to be a situation where both parties attribute the problems to the other side.
For the scapegoat to be vocal about the pain is being part of the problem, so in a never-ending intention of keeping the peace, we grieve privately.
I am 65 years old and moving half way across the country was the best thing I did for my mental health.
There are situations where a 'geographical cure' really is a critical aspect of recovery. FSA is one of those.
For a long time, to find answer to my suffering, I had to first choose from different diagnoses of myself first: physical/sexual/emotional abuse? depression, personality disorder, then find the information from books of that 'genre'. By bringing awareness to FSA/FST, Rebecca identified a specific mechanism that causes the traumatic injury. I'm sure FSA happens in many families with sexual/physical abuse, families with addiction problem ... etc. Like the topic of betrayal trauma that you introduced me to, I feel that the bubbles of the Venn diagram of child abuse should be the specific mechanisms like FSA/FST, betrayal, invalidation, ... etc than categories like sexual/physical/emotional abuse ... etc. Mechanism-oriented organization will help victims understand why they feel the way they do better than different diagnostic labels.
For years, I felt I was gingerly holding a giant tear drop in the middle of my chest. It quivered and threatened to burst. One day after an EMDR session, it burst. I had an understanding that I was that sucker in a gang, the one expected to be sacrificed first in a war. That was my price to be a member of the gang. That understanding brought out river of tears. My therapist later apologized for causing me to dissociate. I didn't mind though. I think one trait helped me to survive was my determination to know the truth no matter how ugly it is. This painful knowledge did help. I was able to be more aware of the vulnerable part of me and have compassion for her. Feeling the righteous rage helps me fight. Feeling the grief helps me be more compassionate towards myself.
Profound (and profoundly moving) comment, Anne. I'd love to see the type of map / graph you are speaking of. If you ever whip one up and want me to share it on a video or my blog, just let me know. I love the idea!
This truly was a very profound comment, well said. You're absolutely right that this feels like it's at the core of everything. I want to escape mySELF because it feels like the pain feels like it comes from every direction, but at the core is unwilling silence. I had to be silent about illness, addiction, abuse, s3xual abuse, neglect, abandonment, being scapegoated, all of it. Everything that happened in the family was all my fault and I couldn't even question it. The worst part was being invalidated and forced to hold it in for fear of being seen as "even more difficult than I've always been" for just breathing and existing. It made me doubt myself to the point that at 34 I can't make the simplest decisions, and I'm even harder on myself than they all were, hoping I can make myself "better" and "acceptable," just beating myself up all day long. I learned to abandon myself, and do so everyday. I am also in emdr and praying every day for this kind of breakthrough. I'm in so much emotional pain and turbulence, it's so hard to look at what was done to me and how much time and opportunities I lost, I feel like I'm falling apart. I've been running from feeling this my whole life and 5 months into emdr I'm wondering how I can even handle anymore. Your comment gives me hope and some perspective. I hope you have an amazing life. I wish you the best of luck on your journey!
WOW. That second paragraph was HEAVY and TRUE. It is absolutely devastating to realize what was truly happening. The analogy of being a "sucker in a gang" was spot-on!!! I love the last two sentences ... it's like a beautiful poem.💖
I really like the idea of reimagining a venn diagram to include FSA/FST, betrayal, invalidation. That's a really helpful angle on it. Thanks for getting me thinking about that. So validating.
And your understanding of "Feeling the righteous rage helps me fight. Feeling the grief helps me be more compassionate towards myself." is so incredibly powerful. Thank you so much for that!
What a beautiful way to explain the heaviness of grief. It's the sadness that finally has no place left to go.
First I grieved my father, and now at age 28 I grieved my mother and the family i never had
No one was on my side. Was the only one who saw her the way she was with me. I have been on medcation for depression for years. I didnot know I had losses.That was just my life. I still feel alone with it.
This may be the first time that I have heard anyone mention relocation! That is such an important idea that needs to be mentioned a lot more. The religious fanatic in my family, who caused so much damage to my relationship between my daughter and myself - the one who holds such a high place in our diocese, exercising extreme control over the decisions that other people make; and going to great lengths to make sure that the world conforms to how she thinks it should be...Being a part of the same religion, in the same geographic location, makes connecting with other women who share my faith very difficult, since everyone knows who she is. I almost left the church because of this, but I am slowly learning that I need to be very selective with whom I share personal information!
It's almost time for my husband to retire and we have decided that we are leaving this diocese when that occurs. We will be relocating at least an hour away. It's not the perfect solution, but it will help. Of course, there are other factors involved in this decision, and making a move to a more rural location would make economic sense at this stage in our lives..
I've had more than a few clients in a similar position, whether it was a parent who was a minister, or child psychologist, or social worker specializing in the protection of children. The double reality going on there is mind-bending, to say the least.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thanks for your reply. In this case, it's a sibling.
My mother was sexually Abused as a child and made it known to me when I was 7 at my grandfather's funeral. I was a middle child ( older brother and baby sister). Very sensitive child. Starting to make sense. I'm the family "crazy".
Disenfranchised grief - could not weep but that is what I felt in my heart and body - but could not name it.
I devote a chapter to Disenfranchised Grief and scapegoating in my book (Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed).
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Got your book. Reading it bit by bit. Thanks for your kind reply. Your book and channel are both a gift.
THIS❤ thank you, l feel the same.
I haven't grieved anything about the narc sisters it's been absolute relief not having them in my life.
I've got one who is just a monster. When I saw Amber Heard smirking on the witness stand in the recent court proceedings it was uncanny. The same sneering, smirking, dismissive, mendacious attitude my own sister has displayed for years. My wife couldn't believe it either. It was freaky.
I grieved on the idea of family. I was always there for my family such as support, love and giving. I didn’t get back. I understand they don’t know love. But if someone is truly there for them they should at least have compassion and gratitude for the person being there.
Ideally, yes, this would be the case - reciprocal, loving, supportive, respectful relationships. But there is much that is not typical or rational in regard to dysfunctional or narcissistic family systems, as my book, articles, and videos on FSA will attest - which are all based in my research on this form of abuse (which I named 'family scapegoating abuse' or 'FSA'.)
❤
I am the family scapegoat. My mum is 98 yrs old and lives with me. We have always been close. I gave this heartache to God years ago and am born again. I pray for the rest of my family and i love them from afar. They said goodbye to me but They are not permitted in my life as things stand anyway.❤🙏
Geographic removal from an area does help start a new life. My situation is that there was sexual abuse as well as scapegoating. The scapegoating was driven by my mother and stepfather. My stepfather is the molester and my mom the enabler. My daughter and I have cut ties with the family as my daughter chose to take legal action against my step-dad. What is so frightening is that my sister's children were also sexually abused by him and still the family are blind to the whole scapegoating narrative. They are in such denial. They are highly qualified, educated and successful individuals, the so called pillars of society. I experienced this unbelievable grief and the loneliness of it all. As I said, I'm grieving the loss of a whole family that still walks around as if nothing has happened. I just would like people out there to know that there is light at the end of the tunnel. I'm a huge animal lover and therefore has numerous pets which give unconditional love and good quality people as friends. Nature is also a wonderful healer. I do find my birthday and Christmas triggering, but I prepare myself for this and just know that these days will pass. I no longer cry about the family. I try not to resent them anymore as I know they can't comprehend it. I also give myself brownie points when I notice that my responses to triggers and my improvement in coping with them improves. I would not have been able to get through without channels like this one. Many therapists are not so aware of it but I also send these links to mine as sharing information is so important. Thank you Rebecca. X
You're welcome, Paula!
We had an intact close happy family until covid. For some reason I the mom of now all adults with families was attacked and ganged up against by most of them. They were complaining about a sibling first and then switched to me. (My husband escaped most but not all of it.) It was incredible. One even went no contact which I had never heard of. It felt like the end of the world. Even now I would crawl into a hole and die if I could. But instead God is enabling me to forgive as I am forgiven. I have given them tons of space but have not given up. Thank God, most are finally back to being their old wonderful selves again, but not all. Yes the shock, loss, and grief is off the charts. Thank you for the validation.
You're welcome. Many dynamics shifted in families due to the pandemic. Glad you're here. Here's my resource list in case you are seeking more information and support: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
My father passed away a few weeks ago. After the funeral one of my brothers who I cut out of my life five years ago, felt it necessary to say in private that I should have known he was going to die soon BC he was on blood pressure meds. This was followed by years of petty resentment that led to me cutting him out of my life five years ago. I refuse to take his crap and have called him out dozens of times for being a jerk and everyone always backs him up no matter how messed up it is, even all the things he said after our father's funeral. Another brother backed him up and I ended up leaving while the rest of my family mourned the loss of my dad. A few days later I told my mom why I left early and she shook her head like I was just a little kid being a baby and said what everyone else says when they make excuses for him "well he's under alot of stress". It's just been one nightmare after another trying to process the loss of my dad along with all the messed up things people have said and done since and now it's impossible to process anything and it's ruining my life, relationship and willingness to move on.
So very sorry for your loss. Sounds like you have a very clear view of what is actually going on in regard to family dynamics and being scapegoated. It can feel devastating to discover no-one in the family will stand up for you and bullies are allowed to reign supreme in these types of family systems. I hope you find something useful here on my channel. My book might also be helpful for you at this time (‘Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed’).
I have 3 sisters. We range from 62-73 in age. The two oldest are narcissistic abusers. Same patterns. Pull me in, try to seem to have a relationship for a while then, get mad over something silly like where you shop.Then, kick you to the curb for 3-5 years. All the time you're grieving that. Rejection. Unpredictability. It's a total mind F. Then you get the text or the call. "Let's put all this behind us. Meet me for lunch at 2 on Saturday. "
Well, I didn't show up for any holiday gatherings and I had to grieve it all over again. But this time I am not playing. And I get angry because they need my nieces and nephews and greats for flying Monkeys, and they make me the bad guy to ensure they keep control. It is total insanity. Now I'm really the bad guy because I haven't acquiesced to their meanness. And we are in our golden years, same town, and not even a phone call because I can't handle my triggers without breaking out in shingles or nausea or some choking feeling around my throat. No thanks.
I'm so glad God gave me bonus sisters to put in their place. And these two can't even stand each other.😅
They still text my husband, which I don't like, but he's trying to just everyone get along.
This dynamic is typical and I plan to do a video on what you are describing here. Thank you for sharing your own experiences. Indeed, it is a sick 'game' and certainly not a fun one for the target of FSA.
My greif didn't come until I fully understood that I would never have the wonderful family relationships others have at the same time overwhelming relief of knowing I have escaped continual wounding ballances out the greif.
That's a helpful way to look at it - the losses and gains balancing each other out.
Letting go of the dream of having a warm loving family life is so hard. Such a loss.
I grieved for about two years and concluded that my grief was allowing them to control me. Lately I’ve adopted an “it is what it is” mindset. And in hindsight I realize the family really never was close or supportive. It was a false family. So my grief was based on what I hoped for, not what it really was.
I have no contact with those who smeared and lied about me, the scapegoat. However, I do send them all Christmas cards. It’s up to them if they send one back. My card wishes them well and reminds them that I’m still alive (age 73) and well.
Grief is one of many stages leading to 'radical acceptance' - Sounds like you may have gotten there. I wrote an article about this here: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/2023/11/05/radical-acceptance-and-scapegoat-recovery-the-power-of-accepting-what-is/
Experiencing the grief is the last piece of my healing that I haven’t been able to fully access yet. I have a safe and supportive therapist, and we are starting to get there. I can feel tiny bits from time to time. I’m almost past the anger. It’s like the grief is frozen or locked inside. I’ll be glad when I can finally feel it ❤🙏
Glad you have a therapist you feel safe with. I hope you can take a few minutes to read the article on grief and FSA I link to in the video description - very informative.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse I will read it today!
You might read the poem Bird Wings by Rumi as well...
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse thank you. I read it this morning. What a beautiful message. It reminds me of the pendulation work I’m doing in somatic experiencing therapy.
What has helped me access the grief is the simple breathwork exercise described in Andrew Lowen’s book ‘Pleasure’ (from the 80s I think!). It occurred to me that it is being separated from my capacity to feel joy in my body that has caused the greatest suffering. After doing the breathwork a couple of times I cried for 3 days straight. And what a reduction in anxiety! Still grieving and in awe that one heart can hold so much pain.
The pain is so profound. I no longer grieve relationships that were never loving because you can't lose something you never had. I don’t want these people in my life, but I still grieve not having had a loving childhood, not having developed the foundation to feel that I belong in this world. I fear that no amount of personal work will ever allow me to heal.
It's a tough road; I equate healing from FSA to the Kintsugi vase - More info' here: www.fullcirclecounseling.com/blog/the-art-of-kintsugi-a-precious-metaphor-for-the-wounded-healer
Hearing that your parents' shouldn't talk about you in front of you is wrong is new to me. I wish there was a comprehensive book on ages 0-18 about what a healthy childhood looks like and how "good enough" parents deal with puberty and discipline. I did move states and it did help and my therapy helped to the point I am finally coming out of my shell to where I feel safe enough to have emotions, but its crazy the level of autonomy "normal" people were allowed to have compared to mine and even today I learn more ways that my childhood was deficient.
So true. A child learns about 'reality' from the family-of-origin initially. So what happens in that family will seem 'normal' to the child - even when it most definitely isn't.
I came across a quote in the Talmud when I was studying Judaism...Baba Metzia section. "He who publicly shames his neighbor is as though he shed blood."
The Rabbis conjecture that it's because someone's face gets flushed and blood filled.
I had been so publicly bullied by so many for so long.....it was so comforting to see that somebody gets it. It's just appropriate, good manners, practicing the Golden Rule not to shame another person publicly, in front of others, whether family or not....not to talk about them in the 3rd person singular when they are in earshot. It just is.....
@@norxgirl1 On a related note: Don't know if you know sarcastic people, but the Latin root of sarcasm is "to tear flesh"...
Thank you to Rebecca and Dr Erin Watson. What you've said and written is true.
The quickest way to the dawn of a new day is to turn around to face the darkness of night. There you will encounter, what I call "Mr. GRIEF".
He walks right in and takes over your favorite chair. He becomes a companion. Most run from him. Distracted with __________. You fill in the blank. But that's a detour to the dawn of a new day...actually never get to the new day. Anyway Disenfranchised Grief is real. There are ALOT OF LOSSES one experiences in the FSA Role. VERY REAL LOSSES. For me, I had to let go of several people in my life that just flat out do not understand. In the process of letting them go I learned to realize that GRIEF is a better companion like that River that'll take you where you need to go. (To borrow David Kessler's words). When you honestly grieve your losses the loss no longer controls you. It doesn't go away it's just completely different in a most welcoming kind of way.
It no longer consumes you, instead it becomes a part of your life, a beautiful part.
I find the Garden is a good place to stroll with Grief.
Father, teach me how to grieve with more love than pain.
Dr. Rebecca Mandeville THANK YOU for accompanying us in this journey to heal from family scapegoating abuse. I say again, your crown awaits you. Gratefully Jane.
Thank you, Jane. I'm sure that many here will benefit from your gracious sharing of your walk with grief and the wisdom and healing born from it.
Thank you Rebecca.
Wow, this is beautiful. I needed to read this. I haven't know what to do with so much grief. (I initially wrote "don't" not haven't.) Thank you for lighting the path towards relief and bringing an air of spirituality to the process.
There's a wonderful poem by Rumi addressing grief called 'Bird Wings' - I highly recommend it, it is available online.
❤❤❤
I'm am now 14 years into the Narcissistic Smear Campaign Scapegoating Estrangement. My greif is horrible. My son was in the family crossfire. I have now missed 14 years of his life. I have a therapist at the moment but we have not touched on disenfranchised grief. This is very helpful and eye opening.
I'm glad that you found a term that may help you understand what you have been struggling with. I do have a chapter on Disenfranchised grief in my book (Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed) as well.
I’m speechless! This is my 3rd Dr. Rebecca’s video and again I have to stop to absorb and try to process the truth of what I’ve been experiencing for 12 years. Now 71. The term disenfranchised grief is like a gift to the emotions I’ve had without being able to name them. It’s a THINGI And now have a label! It’s an exact definition to the insanity I’ve been experiencing. And it’s a truth that I’ve been hoping was a lie. You see recently I’ve been feeling like “THAT GUY”! What’s funnier is, it looks as if I’ve been “THAT GUY” for over 12 years. Not so recent. I can now see more clearly how it got to be like this. That’s a gift too. I wasn’t the defective one.
It's definitely 'a THING'. But, not just and only a mysterious and incomprehensible 'thing' now. We can call it what it is (the term I coined): Family Scapegoating Abuse (FSA).
I was happy too, to find out I was not the one causing and being the problem. I like your word. Defective one.
I was told by a flying monkey, minion uncle to “get over it” regarding my dad’s sexual abuse of me as a little girl. My dad’s wicked, narc wife screamed at me I wanted it because she can’t face the truth of what her husband did to his own child. And these people go to church!!! 😈😈😈 Crazy bunch...
This is a typical maneuver to cover up, deny and dismiss the sexual abuse of a child. Very sorry this happened to you.
"All sexual abuse is spiritual abuse." Prayers....
Same here
This is me. I was shut out of holidays, even as a kid by manipulation- falsely accused of being mean to them, then told to smarten up and put on a smile. When I couldn't playact well enough told to stay in my room until I could. I heard Christmas through the door. I spent every one of my birthdays until age 50's in bed dreading seeing them all later because they'd all laugh about me.
Indeed, the bullying is not always 'just' from a parent; siblings can be involved as well.
Yes. And nieces nephews. I had a different "scapegoat story"too. I was always told I was a "miracle baby" coming so late in age, and so wanted, then turned into such a "disappointment" - selfish, evil, cruel, ...
Ditto.
I liken the pain of disenfranchised grief, (especially in the very beginning) to being nailed to a cross, lifted up high above everyone, while they go about their normal routines, completely apathetic and oblivious to the person suffering horribly just out of their line of vision (abiity to see, understand or care). If one happens to "look up" and hear you voicing your pain, they merely think you are crazy or mentally unstable and continue on their way.
I was about 12-13 years old when I found the right term to describe me in my family and that is scapegoat. And just this past few years I slowly understood what Covert Narcissistic Martyr Mother is and equally mentally challenging father. Now 42 and move out almost 5 years ago, got married and now have a family of my own. Mother doesn't want me to have a family of my own but still got married anyway. This is true. Grief. I felt that. Grief for the lost of someone who is still alive. Isolated, lost a few friends ad relative thru smear campaign. Anger, anxiety and panic attack and now on the path between anger and acceptance.
Sounds like you have a great deal of awareness already regarding your situation. Glad you're here. Linking you to my updated FSA adult survivor resource list in case something catches your eye: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
Hang in there. I did find great friends and coworkers that are there for me and reach out to me that I have relationships with. It took awhile to build those relationships but it just proves that we can have good ties with others when they love and respect is back.
'Chosen' (of 'found') family - including beloved pets - can make such a difference.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Have an awesome German shepherd. She’s my best friend. She’s also my 6th shepherd. Had two of them not too long ago till the one had to be put down. That was 4 months before my sons death and my ex narcissistic husband and I split up for good. Talk about stress on top of stress. Pets are the best therapy!!
I 100% agree. Don't even get me started on the many, many things I have learned from the many, many cats, dogs, and horses I have had!
I feel sadness about what could have been. It’s a feeling of loss kinda like a death, emptiness. .
Hi Jon, it indeed can be so painful. I have listed some resources in the video description if you nee more support.
Rebecca.....thank you for understanding and revealing this aspect of FSA. It is the most horrific, insidious and painful type of abuse. I don't know how I have survived. It most definitely goes under the radar and most therapists are totally clueless.
You're welcome. And you did survive. Time to thrive?
Society as a whole is either unaware of FSA, has no interest in hearing about it, or is part of perpetrating it. I completely agree. It is the most painful thing any human can endure. Take care ❤
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuseThat would be wonderful. Right now I'm still surviving....long story. Screenplay material.
When my scapegoating mother screamed at me at the dinner table about how stupid she thought I was my father just sat there saying and doing nothing. For this reason it is so difficult to forgive him. I don’t know if I ever will be able to in any kind of authentic way.
With my clients (and in my book, Rejected, Shamed and Blamed, and also my videos here) I focus on 'radical acceptance' versus forgiveness. Here's an article I wrote recently on this topic: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/2023/11/05/radical-acceptance-and-scapegoat-recovery-the-power-of-accepting-what-is/
I allowed the grief to come a year ago & the tears pain & floodgates opened it was overwhelming lasted weeks the aftermath lasted months when I came out of it I began to heal.
The anger was very scary as I was conditioned to believe i was abnormal when I showed anger they all are allowed this anger I am not.
But my anger I know now is a normal reaction to an abnormal situation.
It was all worth it as I realise the strength resilience & determination that I have is something they can’t destroy only I can scare myself into believing the lies gaslighting slander & manipulation they imposed on me I survived this endless dehumanisation for 40 + years
I am still be standing owning my truth telling the truth.
They were unable to change or look at their behaviour from a normal perspective or compromise a little to meet me halfway. On some level I was in fact somewhat crazy to think I alone could reunite heal our family bring us together in an open fair loving forgiving manner.
For me I’m letting go of this naive dream. But I am choosing to make it very clear by walking away that they’re behaviour is not okay & I won’t allow myself to be used & abused anymore by anyone!
This is a crossroads for me personally right now & has been difficult as it’s more than just about protecting my health & sanity it is also a principle if I wish to live true to my values & for the first time in many many years be true to myself ! then my outside actions must be congruent with my internal beliefs, if I am ever to have the peace I so desire & deserve. I often think of this quote. Evil can flourish when good men do nothing. I may not be able to shout injustice from the rooftops or bring about massive change but I will no longer be silenced ❤️🩹.
Pat, this is an incredibly powerful personal 'testimony'. Sounds like you have grieved deeply, felt the 'righteous rage', and are moving into strong 'radical acceptance' - and taking care of yourself in the process. I celebrate your recovery and this new chapter living as your TRUE SELF.
Thank you for validating hearing and simply acknowledging me Rebecca ❤️🩹 I read your comment & didn’t know how to feel at first couldn’t quite deal with it. Another symptom of SG fear of compliments success or affirmation it’s usually followed with an attack, my body & mind doesn’t trust temporary pleasure or self love it was always a precursor to severe punishment. I know what’s coming the aftermath of any success or achievement is followed by put downs chastising words like don’t get to big for your boots, if they only knew the real you ! Taunts name calling a combined family effort to put me back in the well constructed labelled box 📦 they needed me to stay in. Still got work ti do 😉
So many of us here can relate to these feelings and fears you share, Pat. I recommend you read this article I just posted on my blog written by my colleague Dr Erin Watson on scapegoating and betrayal trauma. These issues you describe are mirrored there as well: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/2023/04/28/betrayal-trauma-and-family-scapegoating-abuse/
When I was still staying with family, I asked my NPD mom to take a family photo together with dad and my sisters/nieces/BIL. She said no time and never tried to make time.
And when I went study abroad.. bam! Suddenly appeared a family photo.. without me.
Even until now.. at age of middle age, excluded from a family by my mom and my sisters. Now I understand the grief I have for years. I walked away from my toxic mom... yet..the grief lingers deeper
I've had clients report the same; finding their photos turned face down when they go home to visit or their photo hung up in the garage with the glass cracked and coated with dust, etc. These things really do happen. Very sorry it has happened to you.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse thank you for sharing the others' story. It is painful to always be in the position of scapegoat and too many incidents of re-injuring even after setting boundaries. Always making effort in the road of healing. Hopefully what you share will make more awareness about this situation. Thank you for all your posting.. it helps a lot ! 💐
The concept of disenfranchised grief makes so much sense. I've been feeling exactly that for decades, but couldn't really get my head around it. The stigma that comes with the family slander is, at times, as painful as the slander itself. I'm so worn out by the notion of "well, if your entire family says that you are xyz then maybe you should think about that, they can't all be wrong, you're the common denominator here." This video is so validating. Thank you for explaining this form of grief so clearly.
There was never any supportive constructive criticsm from anyone in my fam of origin and their friends, just assumptions, insinuations, and insane rumors. A therapist I was seeing with my narcissistic father (his choice of therapist) took me aside after a while and told me I was a family avatar. That made a lot of sense too. I am a manifestation of the projections of the greatest frustrations, anxieties, hatreds, fears, greed, jealousy, etc of various family members and their friends. It is excruciating and has destroyed my career, my finances, my physical, and mental health.
Thank you so much for the work that you do, for the research, for producing these videos for us, and for inspiring us to start a grassroots movement. You are helping me (and many others, I realize) break the stigma. My traumatized mom died full of self doubt and confusion, in her last decade she cycled through various nursing homes where I met so many kind, empathic people who had been tricked into signing over resources then put into the homes to die alone. It was tragic. You are starting a movement which will help society avoid that pain. I can't thank you enough for that.
Thank you, Karen. Very glad you are here and already appreciating your contributions to this new and growing community. The family avatar reference would tie into what we in the Family Systems field call the 'Family Projective Identification Process'. I discuss this at times in my video (including why the family Empath are the recipients of this projection process) and there is an article I wrote about this also on my blog. If you need the link, just let me know.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thanks so much for getting back to me so quickly! I've looked briefly through your blog (love it!!!) there's so much there to learn, it's really making so much sense. So incredibly validating. Wish I had a time machine.
I am really interested in learning more about the 'Family Projective Identification Process.' I'd love any links which make reference to that. Thank you again for creating and sharing such an incredible resource for us. I can't find words to express how much I appreciate it.
Karen, to get a good foundation, you may want to read my book on what I researched on and named ' family scapegoating abuse' (FSA), 'Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed'. It is available internationally on Amazon and other major online book retailers. It will give you a good foundation in the Family Systems view of scapegoating and the underlying causes.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse It's the first book on my purchasing list. I've been meaning to get a copy for months now. I've heard great things about it. Can't wait, just challenged by time and funds at the moment. I should be able to get a copy soon.
Carried sadness all my life. Deep, deep sadness! Father died suddenly when I was 6 years old. Mother and two, much older brothers, took all their grief/anger out on me. It’s so confusing, grew up wanting to please only to be ridiculed for that too.I grieve for me not the loss of others whom I separated from ❤❤
Sounds like a highly traumatized, dysfunctional family system, which is what my book focuses on. It's linked at the top of this resource list I put together, in case you are wanting more support: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse I’ve purchased your book 🙏❤️
I didn't even know that I was grieving. I just thought I was a mentally unhealthy person. Thanks to the dreams that haunted me for decades, with me waking up crying silently every morning. That deep, profound sorrow, disproportionate to the events of the dreams made me probe further into why I was so very sad. Several therapists who didn't know anything about this topic re-traumatised me and I stopped seeking help from anyone. I also went NC with extended family members, not all at once but through a slow, painful and disappointing realisation that they're all on the Kool-Aid. After a few years of reading articles and watching youtube videos that contributed greatly to my knowledge on dysfunctional family dynamics, I discovered your channel only a few days ago. Thanks, Rebecca for your caring and compassionate videos. I'm going to get your book and see where it will take me.
Very glad you're here and good to hear you'll be reading my introductory book on FSA. Linking you to a list of resources I put together for FSA adult survivors as well: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
I watched a video last night and thank you. I’ve gone no contact for 2 years. I’ve been working on healing. I had no idea that I was the scapegoat. The patterns of treatment towards me just became unbearable. I chose me. The grief was like a death or loss. I cried for about a month. On and off but it would happen in public places. I may have been in shock at first. I think many people thought we’d patch things up but I knew I had to walk away. I believe I was grieving the idea of this close family or a closeness with my mom and sister. It was never going to happen.
I started Reiki and energy clearing and in about 3 months I felt better, than the holidays rolled around. I still attend meditation and energy clearings, it has helped me sooooo much. I’m kinda of like an orphan now. I’m no longer mad, I’m just rebuilding and creating new memories with my own family.
My husband does say I should call but he doesn’t understand that estrangement is better for my mental health. ✌🏼❤😊
I've had more than a few spouses of FSA adult survivors read my book and watch some of my videos and it did help them to better understand. If my research and work on what I named family scapegoating abuse (FSA) is new to you, you might find additional support/information here from this survivor resource list I put together: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
Thank you so much for this! I am living with the righteousness rage you mention, and I see that I need to let myself grieve. That is overwhelming. I so look forward to your videos, they are my lifeline. Thank you so very much for validating my experience. It’s a very lonely road, which even my husband doesn’t understand.
Look up the Rumi poem Bird Wings. You will find inspiration there...
Scapegoated grief in my opinion, are the most horrendous, traumatizing and overwhelming emotions one can ever experience in life. I can honestly tell you, and I only know this from a dream I had, that my angels came down and covered my heart. To shield me from the excruciating pain, allowing me to process all the grief, one step at a time. And I know this dream is true, because if not, I wouldn't be here today. They had to have shielded my heart through the pain that is ongoing, but is getting better, for me to have lived to tell the tale...
I'm so grateful to have found your channel. Truly one of a kind and your voice is very calming to me. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and putting a voice to the ones that are always overlooked, taken for granted or just simply thrown away. It's nice to finally hear about our problems and how to overcome them, versus what a narcissist is and the different family roles that manifest. Yes, we need to know about those characters, as to understand where we came from and to recognize patterns so that in future relationships we involve ourselves with, a more harmonious dynamic can be played out while also helping to heal our hearts and traumatized souls. It's nice to finally see someone addressing the process on how to heal the pain that belongs to a scapegoated person alone, only because the trauma is compounded by so many people that were supposed to love them, should have loved them, and yet they chose not too. 🌷🙏🌷 Namaste to you Beautiful One 💜 💜 💜
Willow Moon, you express yourself - and your truth - so beautifully. I appreciate your kind comments about my channel and my content as well. I relate to everything you say here - and even had a similar ‘visitation’ over 30 years ago in a dream state - but I am quite sure it was no ‘dream’ as it was more real than my waking life. It would be intriguing to see how many people who are scapegoated might experience something like this; perhaps I will at some point put up a poll or do some formal, transpersonally-oriented research on it. Thank you for being here.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse intriguing thought about the "dream". 🤔 Curiouser and curiouser, my mind is trying to run off to ponder this notion! So I will thank you for your kind words, wish you a happy day and let my mind have it's lead for a bit. I look forward to seeing what may transpire from you on this.
🌷🙏🌷Namaste Beautiful One 💜 💜 💜
When your kids see you shunned, it takes away your parenting skills…they ignore you too and tell you your own family has nothing to do with you, why should we listen to you???
I will be doing a dedicated video on this. It is one of the most difficult and painful aspects of FSA.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse this part was final nail in coffin for me family wise
Your differentiation between FSA and NA is beyond amazing. FSA is a ganging up and it is so invisible to others. It is so beyond anything else I have literally ever experienced anywhere. And coming from your family is like Night Gallery. I just can't literally believe it most of the time and feel surreal and I believe the day I die I will still not have totally accepted it because it is so beyond my mind's ability to even understand, if that makes any sense, FWIW. :)
It makes perfect sense to me. You might also find this video interesting - I do keep separate playlists on the home page of this channel to distinguish between dysfunctional family scapegoating vs narcissistic - and of course, some families are both - and more: ruclips.net/video/AD-rwWEbcWE/видео.html
I sit here in tears. Thank you sincerely, for validating what happened to me. As you spoke i was thinking this is exactly how it went for me. I am 2 years a "lone wolf" and very proud i survived the dark moments of grief i experienced.. and still today, sometimes take my breath away.
🙏 💙
Thank you for this video. I’ve been there, exactly like you explained, my grief over the loss of my remaining family members after my mom and sister died hits me so hard sometimes, in waves even I’ve had to ask myself if I still want to be here. It’s the flying monkeys, they are so awful. But I’m writing this so I’m still here, but there are times I barely make it through. I do not have a good support system and get gaslighted whenever i try to speak up so thank you for posting this, thank you for acknowledging what I’m going through is a real thing, a thing other scapegoatees experience too. Thank you for helping me make it through another day.
Thank you for another great video.. i wouldnt have been able to heal properly living with their vicinity.. having the distance has been so good.
Also, the further one is, the more fear the family has because they dont have control and fear losing the scapegoat for good! Especially, if they know you're happy and doing well. It can destroy them because they have to come to grips eventually .. it will happen!
I grieved the death of every family member .. finally i feel like that big bagpack of weight i carried, is slowly starting to come off .. and ive been waiting to feel this my whole life .. im losing the anger .. and learning to accept.
What leaving the country does is... sometimes god/universe had other plans for us... we weren't meant to live that same life... the situation HAD to get so bad that one decides to leave and realizes... you might have options. You will grow more in a year than your entire family all their life.. combined! New doors open.. you will see how people treat you so different in a new country..
It gives you extra confirmation on how bad we were getting scapegoated ..😅
You realize how lucky they were to have you!
The country change might be exactly what you needed. It opens your eyes. You now know you could live elsewhere and be happier. You will become more couragous.
Stay open minded . That it could be divine planning and timing.. but you gotta stay dedicated to becoming the best version of yourself..
Inspiring comment - and it is so very true. Once we commit to the path of 'true self' reclamation and development, a new path invariably opens up, and it may lead us on many adventures and positive experiences beyond what we could ever have imagined. When we take a leap of faith, it seems the Universe meets us half way and we suddenly have the wings to fly. I see this time and time again with clients in my practice.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse we learn how to become mature empaths, strong boundaries, and often realize the universe was trying to help us this whole time
@@thetruth3325❤❤❤
Finding you at 50 is a gift and thank you for helping me ❤
Glad you're here. Here's my resource list for FSA adult survivors in case you don't have a copy yet. I posted it awhile back in the Community tab here: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
All of your videos this one hit home the most, beginning to name the rage & isolation that I'm stuck in rn at 42 yo. 14 months ago I began therapy w/ a trauma informed LPC. My whole life I sought therapy, but
None named my experience as trauma, or even as abuse.
I've been stuck in rage & extremely isolated since going NC w/ my last family member ironically the BPD mother (very narc traits) that set the scapegoat dynamic in motion, who I nevertheless had more of a bond w/ despite the hell, than my Narc father & their Narc Golden Child, my only sibling.
NC for 4 yrs, never a day of regret over that.
But the loss, as I'm disabled & won't bring a child into this world that I cannot definitely care for fully, as they deserve,but being without any family but for my one true blessing, my partner, (& fur babies) is definitely an ENORMOUS void.
Yes, it is a unique form of grief that FSA adult survivors experience, due to the unique losses suffered.
It's been several decades and I can't recall the details like I used to but my mother left me with my infant brother who was crawling and intermittently walking. I was about 6 or seven at the time. Uncustomarily she left me alone in the house with him and ordered me to not let him get a glass of clorox water she'd left on the table and to also clean up the room and quickly left to go down to the barn for something. First of all, I was reluctant to move the glass to higher ground for fear of getting in trouble so I left it where it was and began tackling cleaning up the room so I wouldn't get in trouble for that as well. i caught my brother reaching for the glass of what appeared to be water and moved it to higher ground and went back to cleaning. He started messing with a chair but I just knew he wouldn't be able to maneuver it over, climb up and get the glass so I just kept cleaning etc and next thing I knew he had pulled himself up onto the chair somehow and was reaching for the glass and as I ran over he quickly grabbed the glass and put it to his mouth. i didn't believe he'd managed to actually drink any of it but immediately took him and went to find my mother anyways and let her know what happened. She glared at me and quickly made some concoction for him to drink. That became all my fault but why would she put clorox in a glass like that in the first place if not hoping for what happened and that became yet another character flaw to accuse me of like I had it in for my brother or something and wished him harm. In another incident, hogs were being slaughtered for the smokehouse and the lard was being cooked down to be used as oil for cooking and frying. I remember my toddler brother being in the kitchen when a small silver container of hot oil was brought in and sat down next to my mother who was standing at the counter doing something but the lid wasn't completed closed in order to allow the heat to escape. I was playing under the table when all this unfolded. I noticed my brother getting closer to the container and called out to my mother but she didn't acknowlege me or him so I went back to what I was doing. Next thing I know my brother let out a cry after having backed up to sit on it and his backside was badly burned. Again, my mother glared at me as if it was all my fault and God only knows what she led others to believe because she was not about to take the blame herself and most likely relayed the events to make it appear that way. In another incident with my niece, I had driven my mother somewhere, maybe a doctor's appointment, and she was holding my niece who was an infant and letting her suck on a cheese puff because she was teething. I became concerned when i glanced over and my mother had narrowly prevented my niece from sucking the whole thing into her mouth and I commented for her to be careful because of the strong suction my niece was putting on the cheese puff. My mother timed it so that just as I pulled in to park she allowed my niece to suck the whole cheese puff into her mouth and it became lodged in her throat. My mother made a sound and I looked over and saw my niece trying to gag. Just as I threw the car into park my mother shoved my niece into my arms. Not knowing what to do I instinctively jumped out of the car and flipped her over and hit her in the back a couple time and she spit it out and let out an outraged cry to my utter relief and joy. it was like if my niece died it was going to be my fault because I was the last one holding her and felt sure my mother would have relayed it that way, behind my back of course, that I was the one feeding her cheese puffs and was the cause of her almost choking to death but my siblings would not they have contested my mother's version of things and would not have given me a chance to say anything because in the end it wouldn't have mattered...
I have a dream, you saw something about mee too... People don't belive us We need to come together as nany as possible and when we stand together, I bet they heard us out..Mee too😊
Thank you. I appreciate this video. I am a scapegoat child. Both my mother and her husband physical abused me. As a scapegoat child I was the problem and every family member could put me down because I was the scapegoat child.
You're welcome. I hope these videos, along with my book, Rejected Shamed and Blamed, help you to understand the TRUE problem in regard to family systems that scapegoat one of their own.
Your work is pioneering Rebecca, I feel so glad to have found your book and channel. Absolutely to the power of connecting and building a grassroots movement. Grief is so painful and complex and when it’s not seen/allowed it’s repeating all those wounds of not being seen/heard by our family and the pain & feelings of isolation intensify. I only just heard about disenfranchised grief from your book and it’s the part that was the most helpful. There’s probably things we can learn from other communities who have fought public indifference even rejection of their grief plus ignorance and shaming? (I’m old enough to remember how people who identified as lgbqt were treated in the 80s especially when AIDS struck).
Yes, I believe there are things we could learn from those movements.Glad to hear that my chapter on grief and this video have been helpful and I hope you were able to read Dr Watson's article on the same subject as well. It's a good one.
Disenfranchised Grief is the term for what we as FSA Survivors went through. I couldn't find the exact words to describe this uncalled for family torture. I wish there was a hashtag for us. I watched my mother and sister walk around with smug looks on their faces as they told anyone who would listen ..." She's ( me) crazy and she's making it all up. She needs psychiatric help". Entire family and friends believes them, not me. That's what angers me. Glad I went no contact last yr. My sister masquerades as the old me ( hairstyle & clothing style, mannerisms. She even laughs like me) When she became a minister like I used to be, she phoned & told me " Now I'm a minister like you USED to be and I'm praying for your salvation since you have become a spiritually weak person." The arrogance is on a high level. So now I am free of them all.Thank You very much Dr. Mandeville ❤
Oh, that's a new one, even for me - Worthy of being in my 'Bizarre Video' series - "When siblings become you after you leave the dysfunctional / narcissistic family system." As a family systems therapist, I find it both macabre AND fascinating!
I noticed this a few years before I left the family. Dad told her she looked like me with her hair styled like mine. Her reply: "I AM BB" People started thinking we were twins. I told Mom I thought it was weird behavior because my sister was turning into me.
@@bbjoyce-je1vx That is wild! and interesting. My most difficult family relationship is with a sister who is only one year younger than me. As teens and young adults, she dated a couple of men that I had been with - after I broke up with them. Maybe our sisters are so enmeshed with us (or towards us?) that they either want to be us or destroy us. I want to better understand this phenomena.
Seriously sounds like a plot from a Lifetime Women's Movie...!
@@angelcity007 I am leary of her to this day. If I am at a gathering, I'll get an eerie feeling like I'm being watched. It would be her standing off watching me as I talked with people. I am sorry you have this same kind of sister. It is sickening and scary at the same time. One of my sons, years ago, unbeknownst to him, got the same job her son had applied for. My son got the job and her son didn't. She showed up at my son's job for 2 weeks straight watching him work. My narcissistic mom covered for her ( sis's actions), by saying..." She loves your son so much, she was only checking on him to make sure he's ok". Truth is, she was stalking him because when he saw her, she dashed out of the bldg. You're right, our sisters are demonstrating one or two strange behaviors towards us. My other sisters do not have this problem. I am glad and sad at the same time to know I'm not alone. Thank You ❤
Thank you for your work - unfortunately most of - I myself in my fifties now the caregiver for abusers and a single mom whose own kids have all become part of the cult - most of us have NO WAY of escape - I tried everything over the years and nothing worked - they would sabotage - take custody of my kids - sue me - have me arrested etc. until I was a hundred percent financially and legally dependent - let alone an on and off alcoholic and deeply mentally Ill - I never got out - and for the last 12 years as my youngest child grew up - I lost all ability and hope of ever escaping. I have no one - all my friends and colleagues from my youth were left far behind and miles and miles away - I am haunted by so many uncanny misfortunes that it’s supernatural that I will always be subject to their control as proxies for “the devil” it seems - by 13 - which my youngest is now - each of my 3kids completely grew out of any need for me as a parent because of alienation - my family is just poor enough to make my needs like a car or eyeglasses impossible - but I am 100 percent responsible for all the business worries - cooking - cleaning -shopping - no escape - on medi caid I can’t find a therapist that I can work with at any depth - I am too crazy and broken to see my way out of this and I am college educated -actually have a degree in philosophy and English - studied everything under the sun to try to think my way out of my life - anyway I couldn’t get out and stay out and it’s now destroyed my children as well as my life - so I don’t know - that grief - that’s the one that feels like I have never known anything but hell and never will - sorry just venting
These are the terrible realities that FSA adult survivors face. I hope you find something of value on my channel here and support from other subscribers. You are welcome to vent here anytime. I realize it can seem impossible to find a way out; envisioning that it could be a possibility, even if you don't believe it, can be a 'good enough' first step. As I say in the video I will be releasing tomorrow: "Believe nothing - Entertain possibilities."
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse thank you so very very much😢🥲I had no idea you would respond to such an old video - I just found your channel because I am breaking down again and went to amazon to search if ANYTHING had yet been published on family scapegoating ~and there was your book! I ordered it immediately and looked you up on RUclips- thank thank for your work and amazing videos - I hadn’t searched for a year or more - narcissism doesn’t cover my situation - but today I faced another communal smack down in the face of a family emergency that I have to resolve while getting blamed and having no authority to fix - anyway sorry too babble - just can’t believe you’re here and you exist - there are so many of us out here - the modern world and ironically- feminism itself - has made our plight more invisible so more impossible for clinicians and the public to believe or understand - most people can’t see scapegoating because most families participate in it somewhere within their immediate or extended community - it’s been a blind spot since the dawn of time - it’s one of the lessons of the crucifixion itself - anyway you AND your comment back have given me hope - more than I could ever share - thank you so much 🙏- from Jennifer
Hi Jennifer, that was pretty much my experience when I was searching for the same type of resources several years ago, because you are correct: Not all families that scapegoat are a narcissistic family system - they can also be dysfunctional and are often highly traumatized systems (including intergenerational trauma, as described in my book). Hence my idea to publish something on the subject (as well as conduct qualitative research on what I ended up naming FSA). What I bring to the table is the Family Systems piece, which is critical to understand if you are scapegoated by family. Be sure to check out my playlist that addresses dysfunctional family scapegoating specifically (I have a separate playlist for narcissistic family systems). I release videos nearly every Saturday at 11 am PT; if you subscribe, tap the white bell and then click the button to be notified of new video releases. We have a nice community here; read the comments on the videos you most strongly respond to, you might receive some understanding and support from others here. It can help to break out of that sense of hopelessness you might be experiencing, and isolation. Glad you're here!
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse bless you - im so sorry - my mother is the most diabolical narcissist you could imagine - however, the scapegoat piece is often not elaborated enough in most literature - I am so grateful that you are focusing on this aspect - being the scapegoat of the narc all my life is like living with a heat seeking missel trained on my back 24/7 - it’s so horrific being alive day to day / but the damage to me and especially my kids over my lifetime is too devastating to even try to put into words - I wish there were an Underground Railroad for scapegoats cause I have never got out - thank you again
@@twoshea749"...it's one of the lessons of the crucifixion itself." ❤❤❤ Bringing your gifts of language and philosophy to the scapegoat phenomena should be interesting....looking forward to more of your posts....
Hi Rebecca, thank you for this, Dr Erin’s article on this is very insightful too.
I think I’ve mentioned this before to you, you briefly mentioned being verbally abused by family in front of you. My experience however has been that I have been completely ignored by my older brother for 23 years.
We have both been invited to family events over the years (except for one event that took place at his home so obviously I wasn’t invited and it didn’t need to be said, everyone just knew, so there was a separate gathering in a pub that my brother couldn’t stop me going to but he came to that too and ignored me!).
This happened before I had learned about FSA and I wouldn’t tolerate this now, in fact I am now pretty much no-contact with all of my family which is better for my well-being, I never really enjoyed those gatherings anyway.
My point is, instead of being overly verbally abused in front of others, I have been actively ignored by my older brother (the one who designated me the scapegoat), at all family gatherings for the past 23 years and all other family members have turned a blind eye, and even as I have learnt about FSA and discussed it with some other family members, I have been invalidated by them (which I know is to be expected), and crucially, nothing has changed.
My brother ignoring me is just ‘how it is,’ it’s been there so long and his smear campaigns justify it, but it has resulted in me choosing not to be a part of them or my family as a whole anymore.
I wonder how common this ignoring is? Because I hear a lot about people being verbally abused but not so much about being ignored by significant family members and this being excused by everyone else.
In relation to grief, this is the grief of not having a family to protect you and stand up for you.
Even after telling my mom and my uncle how I feel this (not that I should have to!), they still take no action and I am expected to go along to a family gathering and be ignored by my brother and no-one say anything about it.
As I write this I realise I still feel angry about it, but other times I feel sad.
Good video topic - ignoring as FSA behavior from family members. Added it to my topic list, thanks!
I’m often moved to tears witnessing a families support for a sick patient of mine. And the shame & pain fluid on.
But I get to witness that beauty, and it does exist & is just miraculous.
I find this beauty often in nature, and with animals - which is true for many of my clients as well.
I never heard the end of how I was born 3 weeks late, caused my NM 16 hours of labor and was almost breech but turned myself around at the last moment. Lol. I knew what I was in for and probably didn't want to come out.
Did you already watch my video on the Marty Parent Ploy? If not, you will want to.
I'm a scapegoated adult and I do have a very difficult child but I will be mindful now on of speaking casually about it because that is abuse as well thank you for bringing this to my awareness