ALL SHIPS CAN CHART JUMP POINTS "In general, all ships will be able to detect jump points, though the Carrack is simply better at doing it and from much greater ranges." CIG robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/18470-Q-A-MISC-Odyssey#:~:text=In%20general%2C%20all%20ships%20will,and%20from%20much%20greater%20ranges.
@@wifegrant How can you compare a small ship like the Terrapin to a dedicated capital exploration ship like Carrack? It will have much larger and powerful sensors and will have exploration drones that can explore an entire system, Terrapin is like a small boat with just a size 2 radar, even if Odyssey can carry a Terrapin it won't be able to expand its exploration capability to put it on par with the Carrack
A solution or two for that would be to have assigned beds where a player can log in to and only that player and the ship owner can reset the bed to default. Or CIG would need to somehow make the spawn loader recognize the other player's ship as your destination when logging in.
Until the Ody arrives and Exploration is in game, in full... we simply don't know. I think it's far too early to say, we just don't know how it's going to unfold. A fun thought experiment though, no doubt both ships will be great competitors and this conversation will continue to be 'discussed' long after the game officially goes live, lol.
Yes. I'm a firm believer that both ships are great and we need both to succeed. I just think Carrack owners sometimes think it's the only ship in the game that can do anything right.
Odyssey is an resource exploration ship. Carrack is system and navigation exploration ship with modularity to increases its possible roles beyond the default at the cost of cargo storage.
Like I said in the video we'll have to wait and see what those modules are to really gauge the space between the Odyssey and the Carrack. But since we're doing what-if's... What if the Odyssey's hanger grows to fit some of the smaller medium ships???
I'm personally waiting on the Odyssey. The carrack was the first big ship i put cash towards. I honestly don't like the layout,alot of wasted space. in combat it easily gets smoked. The carrack should probably have size 5s and an interior rework. Even the Odyssey is not in game the carrack is a make believe ship. Mine ended up becoming a Polaris
The Carrack's sells pitch was as the greatest exploration ship. The Carrack mini-game created by CIG showed it as a great exploration ship. The Carrack as delivered is just a regular ship with some special and unfinished features. Yes I'm pissed.
They sold the carrack as the exploration ship and later changed it to exploring jump points so they can call the odyssey the exploration ship and get more sales. I have a carrack and wont be changing it until the game gets proper gameplay for it. No more money for CIG, they can't keep their word.
Good night nurse. Yet ANOTHER video that doesn't understand the difference between these two ships. The Odyssey and Carrack are VERY different ships with completely different intended exploration functions. The Carrack is a deep space explorer. It has stellar cartography, exploration based drones and science oriented functions designed to detect and find things like jump points. The drones will work to explore connection points inside worm holes that connect systems in a temporary manner. The Odyssey is a planetary explorer. The reason it can mine its own quatanium is because it is a planet mapper. With the ability to do soil, mineral and topography analysis. The Odyssey is the ship you send out ahead of the Pioneer to explore a planet's surface. This video continues to pass along information further dividing the community on these two ships. The reality is we NEED both of them as one explores above the planet and the other explores on the planet.
Did you watch the video? because with what you're saying it sounds like you only read the title but I could be wrong. I do recall saying in the video they serve different purposes. Both ships can find jump points, Carrack can just find them better that's CIG words not mine. As far as what the Carrack's drones can do I would love to include that in my video but I need a source for all the information in this comment. I try to make it very clear when I'm speculating vs when I'm stating what I can source. I'm not sure which this comment is. And good night to you as well!
@@billionaireninjas I did watch the entire video. Appreciate the work put into it and the opportunity to dialogue further. There is a lot of misconceptions on these two ships and the disconnect between the marketing and product briefs add to the confusion. happy to dialogue offline and get into more details.
Sure the Carrack has the better armour, speed, turret coverage, pilot view, command and control functions, and mapping suite, but we are still missing the two biggest sells: Flying bridge and Captain's quarters.
I think the mail slot is going to work on the Odyssey because the artwork makes it look like it will be from floor to ceiling and wrap around the wall several meters. You know what we really need is a new MFD module for external cameras to help land ships. It would also give a co-pilot more to do. as they can dedicate more or all of their MFDs to camera for spotting targets in blindspots, helping land by watching all the landing gear points at once, or monitoring entry points for boarders during battles.
I remember reading cig saying that there will be a lot more visible than people think so the mail slot won't be a disadvantage. Your second point is fantastic and you need to start telling cig about it
Very succinct and well reasoned video. Carrack owner; drones, modules, repair bay, its military pedigree, and Ursa/C8 bonus make it the ship for me. I'll likely run with a C8R, and a ground vehicle with more utility, once they are a thing...base builder/amberlamps/hauler. The Odyessy is sexy AF, but I don't need both.
Little known fact, the Starfarer is dead in the water. The reason no one is using it is because it can not refuel. I don't know when it happened but the fuel nozzle which connects to the other ships is missing and when you go to buy one at the store it disappears from your inventory. On top of that the ship loadout manager does not recognize or even see it to put it on your ship. I have bought four of them and none of them are in the inventory but Nik Nax sees them in the utility section of the inventory. Many people have posted this to the Issue Counsel but there are so few Starfarer owners it gets archived before enough people can confirm it.
If there is one ship that I am certain will get a rework. It is indeed the Starfarer. It only sucks because of how much they had to keep it the same in squadron 42 because it's a level in the game. My guess is they rework fueling as well. They have to make that gameplay loop more fun and more profitable or nobody will buy the ship.
I like comparisons. Sure a few things will be different but the people that want to use these ships will likely debate which one fits them, these videos help clarify things for buyers. A Caterpillar vs Carrack vs Galaxy helped me decide I’d like to own a Galaxy for my own modular style of gameplay
@@Vioblight yes thats fine and all, but ultimately it always goes back to picking the right ship for the job. Too many people but ships becuae iyt looks cool but then moan becuase it doesn't do what they want it to do.
This I Agree on. It will come down to picking the right ship for each job. It's why I own a whole fleet of ships. I also think that's why we need to compare. So we can see which ship does what and is right for which job.
After the carrack rework they did, Carrack is garbage Carrack is junk! (and saying it a backer whom put alot of money especially cause of the carrack) such disappointment, replaced it with the Odyssey
About the Carrack Vs Odyssey, we do not know what and how scanning functions will work. The Carrack has the 4 large retractable antenna's and the Odyssey has a large fixed antenna at the front and another scanner located beneath just above the main ramp, there is no information about how these will function/work and how these compare. Until we know what and how these scanning devices do and their respected specifications we can then determine which ship is best/ better for purpose and type of exploration scanning.
I think both will be great at scanning. My main point in the video is both need to succeed. The Odyssey for going further, the Carrack for getting more details along the way.
The Carrack is also a military ship equipped with armor and is the Swiss Army knife of exploration. It can transport ships and ground vehicles without losing any cargo space. Can be a command and control ship for small to med orgs. with its full map system cartography room. To top it all off Modularity . What if you spend most of your time, searching for mineables to refine fuel for the Odyssey instead of exploring ?
what you are forgetting,.. one ship has an infinite range to reach the unknown, the other ship is dependent on fuel and cannot travel as far. if you cannot travel as far to explore, what ship is a better explorer!!!???
@@thegamingtribunal It depends on what you perceive as exploration, it's a very loose term. My mental image of how the game will ultimately play out, will be with unstable jump points opening up and closing constantly, with the Carrack's superior computers and scanning arrays being able to plot an affectively course utilizing these unstable jump points. (Eve Online had a similar concept, with the Wormholes serving as insane shortcuts between large spans of space). Fuel isn't critical when doing that, since you already know what your destination is, you are merely mapping it out. The Odyssey would be more inline with what most people perceive as "Exploration" being that it will slow-boat its way across the universe. It doesn't have as sophisticated a scanning systems as the Carrack, so it would rely more on a scanning ship onboard (Terrapin maybe?) to coordinate the logistics of the route.
@@cbrown596 that's a good take, but... Imagine doing that and getting stuck there due to a lack of fuel unable to make a QT jump anywhere due to the sheer size of a system!!!!.... I cant wait 🤣
The most important aspect of a Carrack for expedition - Jump charting computers and equipment/sensors that an Odyssey DOES NOT HAVE. If you come across an uncharted jump point, only one ship is going through that JP, and shocker, its not the Odyssey. The Carrack is what you use to explore as a profession, the Odyssey is what you use to prospect for a base/mining operation.
This is the exact thing that I'm trying to talk about in the video...there is a source for these things. My source that the Odyssey will be able to chart jump points is literally in the MISC Odyssey Q&A. It says "all ships will be able to detect jump points" the Carrack will be better at it, and do it at a greater range... Not the only one who can do it. robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/18470-Q-A-MISC-Odyssey#:~:text=In%20general%2C%20all%20ships%20will,and%20from%20much%20greater%20ranges.
The Carracks Pisces has a data link that links to the Carrack that I think is the way they can sell the data of the smaller JP. There is no way a Odyssey can do that even if they put a Pisces in it. But with that said I like the independence of the Odyssey.
Generally not a fan of the idea that longevity in the black = exploration. Maybe that's a failing on my part but the Carrack will be able to do far more once it gets there than the Odyssey. The Odyssey has no drones to repair itself or perform survey tasks like the Carrack does, it has no cartography deck, it has no advanced scanners or really any special qualities of any kind except the ability to refuel itself and carry a wider variety of ships in its bay. The Odyssey's biggest flaw is it's only mission specific abilities really tie down to what ship it carries in the hangar and it cannot refuel that craft with its mining capabilities. If it had been able to do so, I might have been tempted to pull the trigger. However, a ship who's primary role is to a mothership with infinite fuel and cannot use that fuel for the ship its carrying seems flawed in concept to me. Yes I know carrier ships of all kinds (Liberator, etc) will be able to refuel craft it carries via a manual process from ship stores but the Carrack hold's twice as much storage as the Odyssey so there goes that. I do like that the Odyssey is effectively a modular ship with the smaller ship it carries being the "module", but no ship it carries will make it a better explorer than the Carrack by any stretch of the imagination...with one caveat....we don't know how big a difference scanner size and specific bonuses from special stations will actually generate. If the difference is only so big and can be made up with a marginal bit of additional effort when exploring a new star system, I may re-evaluate.
@@billionaireninjas unless I am greatly mistaken, the Odyssey Q&A specified that fuel mined with the Odyssey willnot be able to be used for hangar craft. I want to like the Odyssey but I can't get past this point. Also, if I eat up the bay with a Vulcan, I probably cant use it for much else...sadface
The Q&A said it can ONLY fuel the ships in the hangar. It cant fuel any other ships though. The Vulcan adds two things in my book the ability to bring an external ship along and repair. The Odyssey fuels the vulcan then the vulcan fuels the exterior ship. It's a workaround that I've found with the information available! Rejoice!
@@billionaireninjas Not how I read it but would be cool if you're right about that. Would turn Oddy with Vulkan into a nice deep space S&R ship. I personally think the "manual" refueling in the Oddy Q&A will work like the "manual" refueling in the Liberator Q&A but I'd love to either be wrong in that or for CIG to simply be inconsistant as to what they mean by "manual/on-foot" process. Love your videos btw. Peace :)
I wouldn't be surprised if the ody triggers a design language change in the mail-slot viewport. Like increasing the size of it by 50 percent or even double isn't going to make it not look like it's misc lmao
It just doesn't make sense for a space ship which flies in every possible direction to have a pilot view slot like an airplane that flies in one direction.
@@billionaireninjas for real, especially one that's supposed to get a good look at everything to EXPLORE lmao. Manufacturers design language is cool but gotta chill on the less liked aspects when it's in contrast to function haha
I did look at the odyssey video again it does look like they have an observer room but I hop it has screens that are like cameras where you can take pictures.
With the recent updates to the Carrack I may stick with it. I feel blast shields should be on EVERY ship with such visibly open cockpits. At the end of the day regardless of what everyone is saying that they are different and aren't comparable well.....they are both definitely deep space exploration ships. Depending on what modules they give the Carrack would be another make or break point for me as the hangar in the Odyssey will fit most medium fighters.
I didn't dream it! At least I don't think I did. The Odyssey says Crew of 1 minimum right? So that would mean at least one pilot controlled weapon? I suppose that could be wrong but I dunno. What was your dream about?
It will only be able to repair size 0 and 1 components, not that great. Sure, you can keep the pisces at full HP, but it won't help any of the carracks components
Shame it forgotten is capital components can't be repaired or replaced anywhere other than a shipyard. The Carrack can have its large components repaired and replaced anywhere. Add to the the dual components increases the redundancy of the Carrack components, while the Odyssey single components makes it dead due to component lose and require towing to an shipyard for fixing/replacing.
Given the star Lancer’s mail slot window -- i’m guessing they are totally not going to give that up for MISC ships. I like the carrots, big unobstructed window and it’s general interior aesthetics… so basically that’s why I’m sticking with it over the Odyssey (not metrics)
CIG just needs to give Odyssey owners what they want as far as fueling other ships by making an external fuel port that you have to attach a hose to and carry over to the other ship to refuel , the catch is having to manually carry the hose over and the fuel you give pulls from your own tanks.. Fun and balanced
My guess it will get a hose in the hangar to refuel landed ships. No need for an external fuel port as you have starfarers for that duty. All the Odyssey needs is the ability to refuel docked ships.
Idk it has the range difference but with the changes to mining quant is much harder to find so you’d be more likely to be searching for it more than finding it, so that in itself reduces its range. Aside for the before mentioned shields and tractors are good.
The part where you gave an explanation on the different roles of both ships really clicked with me. If CIG doesent make that exactly as you stated, they would be trolling
The Carack is a heavy intel gathering ship for PVP. Good sensors for spotting targets and relaying that data and while the odyssey has 3 duals s5 turrets, their positioning sucks and leave a lot of blind spots, like it was designed by someone who didn't know what a turret was suppose to do. if the two ships fought the Carack could always keep 6 S4 guns on the Odyssey while rolling to shield share. Every time the Odyssey rolls to let its shield recover its going to go from 4 S5 to 2 S5 and back which will negate its firepower and shield size advantage. In short, the Carrack is build more for being part of a PVP fleet, the Odyssey is built to go exploring.
Even if what you're saying ends up correct...then we're saying the same thing. The Odyssey is the better exploration ship and the Carrack is the Better Multi-role ship.
The Carrack is also a military ship equipped with armor and is the Swiss Army knife of exploration. It can transport ships and ground vehicles without losing any cargo space. Can be a command and control ship for small to med orgs. with its full map system cartography room. To top it all off Modularity . What if you spend most of your time, searching for mineables to refine fuel for the Odyssey instead of exploring ?
By saying it's a swiss army knife (which is literally a multi-tool) again you're saying the same thing I am. Both Carrack and Odyssey can transport ships...the Odyssey can actually carry a bigger vehicle AND a bigger ship than the Carrack. Both can be Command and control ships, Cartography Rooms aren't required for that role but that does show that the Carrack will be better at it. I doubt that CIG will make an exploration ship where you have to spend most of your time refueling it rather than exploring. The Carrack needs larger tanks because once it's out, it has to return to base. The Odyssey can use the space those extra tanks take up for other things.
@@billionaireninjas To clarify, what I'm saying is I think the Odyssey shines on its own, out in space mainly doing PVE content, and will not be something you would ever want to pvp in, or even do heavy combat PVE in. The Carrack is a fleet element using its drones and C&C suite to support pve and pvp fleet engagements. The Carracks guns let it work as a torpedo and anti fighter screen for larger ships and its cargo bay lets it increase the fleets supplies by quite a bit. When the Carrack is on its own though, its mainly scouting for the fleet, not going on long range expeditions. Its two completely deferent kinds of exploration.
@@billionaireninjas No, the Carrack has dedicated exploration equipment like advanced scanners and exploration drones, also will probably carry science modules or extra fuel tank module, the Odyssey doesn't which means the Carrack is intended to be the best exploration ship for scientific purpose like the USS Enterprise, the Odyssey is intended for industrial exploration this is why it is a civilian ship, a different type of exploration than most people imagine.
Gameplay wise the carrack is the explorer ship, it will find the points and survive to make sure its safe. the odyssey is the long duration civilian colonizer type ship. it will go to point the carrack has scouted and land for long term operations. as it can supply its own oxygen and recycle water. The carrack wont be able to do long term planetary stays without resupply unless there is a modular bay for food/oxygen/water/and fuel. That being said the carrack can always team with a starfarer which can hold those supplies for it and potentially refill most things but food. so ideally what would be the best pairing for the carrack is a starfarer and a few food modules on the carrack. that way the starfarer can focus on fuel and maybe emergancy food and water in its tanks while also replacing the lost cargo space from the carrack. idk the prices right now but carrack plus starfarer will be around 1k and the odysse plus whatever you put inside will be around 1k.
Carrack plus Vulcan is $900. Not to mention the Vulcan allows you to bring whatever other ship you want all the way up to an aquila because you can refuel it, rearm it, and repair it with the Vulcan which gets an unlimited fuel supply from the Odyssey.
@@billionaireninjas perhaps but ody plus vulcan plus ground vehicle plus aquila is probably.... 1200-1300. They havnt given us any information on if repair drones can do structural repair so the aquila for example can loose its 4 engines which means its at risk of being stranded. the carrack has internal engines that do not fall off so it doesnt really need structural repair as of yet. carrack and a starfare is about 1k. all it would need to last in space is a food module that recycles air and water like the odyssey to stay out longer. and if fuel siphoning ever becomes a thing the carrack may have access to that with drones.
@@billionaireninjas not if the ody does handle well and is able to hold the vulcan it could pair well with the carrack potentially if it can produce and share food air and water and fuel. but the carrack better pairs with the starfarer for now and probably the endever. if the starfarer gets to hold water, air, and liquid food. if the carrack gets a modlule for food production then starfarer works for fuel.
Great commentary. One thing you missed for the Carrack: it can traverse more jump points, since it is a Large ship and not limited to Capital sized jump points. Also, the C8 can use all jump points, making the Carrack have access to any sized Jump point, and not have to "go-the-long-way-around" which the Odyssey will be forced to do.
@@billionaireninjas At Citizencon and the test for Pyro they talked about wormholes again, so that is the most recent source. The Carrack is the largest ship that can fit through a medium wormhole (the wormhole from Stanton to Pyro is medium). The Zeus is the largest ship that can fit through a small wormhole. That is the current plan anyway.
I found a clips from both Citizencon 2019 and 2021 that show a carrack going through the medium jump point. However it says nothing about it being the only ship that can. All I know is a Xenothreat Idris fit through that Pyro Medium Jump Point so My guess is a Odyssey will as well. Even still who says that only medium jump points to pyro will be available? I wish they would update the starmap.
@@billionaireninjas An odyssey super wont go through medium jump points, it is wider by quite a bit. You can find star maps with the jump point connections with the information we know for all of the systems.
@@billionaireninjas I tried to link the wiki to you but youtube deleted it. The starcitizen tools wiki has all the systems with all the jump points and their sizes. Also I did not say that the Carrack is the only ship that can go through the jump point, only that it is the largest. CIG has stated that the Carrack is the largest a few times but I cant be bothered to go through tens of hours of footage to find a 5 second clip.
Considering what the Carrack was supposed to be 9 years ago in original concept...far before what it is now. Its a disappointing shell of its former self. It was Prometheus. Its size was closer to the 890 jump and had a larger vehicle bay and hangar with cool antennas and a radar dish. I melted my Carrack as soon as the odyssey was announced. You buy a concept ship expecting one thing only for it to be miniaturized.
IMO the Odyssey needs to be able to refuel the Starfarer and it's tanks in the field, as well as internally docked ships. That could intern store and refuel other ships as needed without needing to go to a station or any other facility. Also The Odyssey should fly with a small fleet not too far behind including 2 Carracks a Starfarer and an Expanse. Rather than a StarTrek like mission it would be more like BattleStar Galactica with it's ragtag support fleet not far behind. This concept would also work for small pirate fleets as well.
the control room should take a part from the fury blast shields and just add screens to the inside good view and who ever at CIG has a slit fetish will still be good
I can't wait to see what the odyssey looks like after it goes through all the design work. I imagine exploration gameplay has a lot of work before we can see these ships really duke it out for the crown.
Tractor beams built into the Odyssey doesn't matter. The Carrack is equipped with M3-A Multifunction Space Drones which are able to perform tug functions, it isn't a stretch to believe they'd be capable of moving cargo into the Carrack. These drones don't need to be replaced, as they are multifunction as the name implies. They have the capability of doing Rearm, Repair, Mining, and Salvage, of note however is that the Carrack can control NEMO drones like the Nautilus can. The difference being the Carrack can only use them to disarm mines, not recover them them.
I'm open to believing what you say here, I just need some sources because I can't find CIG sources for the cargo thing. I already know about the swappable drones. However I have not seen any compatibility confirmation with mining or salvage only rearming and the ability to disable mines. The carrack is the closest thing we have to a do everything ship but it won't actually do everything as people are expecting it to do. I gave it a high rating in my review because it's awesome but I think people are going to be upset when modularity doesn't give them every in-game capability.
Im basically scrapping/upgrading all my "exploration" ships. "Exploration" as a gameplay loop is a pipe dream. Cargo/Combat/Mining/Salvaging are the only valid gameplay loops after 12 years. Thats because in a video game i think its almost impossible to create spontaneous "exploration" gameplay thats actually fun and fulfilling. Loon at Eve Online. "exploration" is just scanning and hacking mini games
You forgot about the Repair Room in addition to the drones in the Carrack... There is also a great possibility that the Carrack will get a Refinery Module when modularity is implemented.
I just generally said repair to try to cover that but as far as we know that repair room is only for "small parts" and we don't know what that means yet. Best case scenario for component and drone repair. Worst case fixing gear.
You had me right up to where you said the Odyssey was a better EXPLORATION ship than the Carrack. You equated exploration with range and that is a logical fallacy. Exploration is not just about going a long distance, it's about finding things of value when you get there. If you go into deep space and than came back with nothing you couldn't get locally were you really exploring? I think not. The goal of exploration is to discover valuable things. This makes the Carrack a superior exploration ship, second only to an equipped Endeavor. The problem is that the Odyssey has no dedicated scanning capability. You are expected to take a scanning ship with you which limits the size of the scanner to what will fit in the hangar ie a single size 2 or medium (terrapin) scanner or perhaps 2 Cutter Scouts. The Carrack has all the facilities for powerful large scanners built in AND a drone bay for long range probes which can scan large areas of a system simultaneously. If you want to talk about exploration then talk about what matters to exploration: scanning and computers, not just the maximum range. The Odyssey will disappoint many when they realize its only special capability isn't all that useful in practice and spending hours in quantum travel only to not be able to do much when you get there sucks. The Carrack can easily find undiscovered jump points and travel to other systems using less fuel than those taking the long, slow way.
Why would an Odyssey come back with nothing? It can still scan just not as far as the carrack... It just has to move closer. A lot of people seem to think the Carrack is the only ship with scanning ability. It's just better at it. It gets buffs. Check the MISC Odyssey Q&A that is confirmed. Also when you look at it the Odyssey has one more computer than the Carrack and the Carrack has one more radar. So If what you say is true... The Carrack can FIND more data but the Odyssey can STORE more data. Like I said. Both need to succeed. Not just one so I'm not praying on the downfall of either nor the disappointment of the owners of either. I hope both end up being great!
@@billionaireninjas Exploration ships typically have dedicated scanners and stations....except the Odyssey. The Terrapin, Aquila, 600i, 400i, Freelancer DUR, MSR, etc. They all have dedicated exploration focused scanners ABOVE AND BEYOND the standard sensor suite installed in every ship. How does an Odyssey get closer to something it can't see and doesn't know is there? You're basically just pinging around in the dark hoping something shows up on radar. The Carrack will integrate the data from all the scanners and probes into a cohesive map via the cartography suite. It's a sensor platform. The Odyssey by contrast is a flying small hangar. It's a general purpose ship with more in common with the Liberator than a Carrack. One area I see the Odyssey excelling is scouting locations for base building and land claims. The extended range allows you to go from undeveloped place to undeveloped place indefinitely and to use the hangar to deploy a ship to do detailed scanning of a small area. It's classified as an Expedition ship and I think it's a better expedition ship than the Carrack but not exploration. The Carrack also has 2 large fuel tanks, the Odyssey has one. The Carrack has enough fuel to make a return trip, the Odyssey needs to find and make the fuel to get back. I don't have anything against the Odyssey but it's actually a pretty niche ship, its super power being able to make its own fuel. It's also worth mentioning that the Carrack comes with a C8 Pisces and an Ursa rover free in the box, the Odyssey comes empty.
@@billionaireninjas Both need to suceed but in different types of exploration, Odyssey won't be like the USS Enterprise if this is what you hope, the Carrack will.
I would like to see a single/duo/trio player larger but not to large cap/home ship. Large enough for two snubs or one light/med fighter. Couple of turrets. Tier 3 med bed. Exploration/defence… Drake Corsair upgraded/Consolidated Outland Druid??
I'll settle this debate in one sentence. Carrack exists and is already in game, everything about Oddysey is just a .jpg and can change anytime. Thank you.
I've always said they are very different ships and there is scope for both in the game I own the Carrack but they Odyssey is pretty cool and there is flexibility enough once more systems come online e.g. the Terrapin is a pathfinder you'll definitely fit that in the odyssey, it might not be up to mapping jump points but it could be a nice addition to round off the ship and having different types and sizes of role ships for manufacturers is pretty cool too. That said I'll look more closely once the Odyssey is actually in game.
Carrack and Odyssey slapfight until 600i rework hip checks them both. Until CIG can start adding star systems fast enough that they can afford to add some secretly, I don't think long range exploration will really be viable. So the ships will be judged more on their multiroll use. Modularity will be the Carrack's ace in the hole, mining and refining will be the Odyssey's IF they decide to give it more refining functionality. For the 600i, it will be soloability and tank hauling.
Has it been confirmed that the Carrack is intended to be able to operate repair drones? I always thought it should, but I only remember "exploration drones" being mentioned
Yes confirmed it will have repair drones we just dont know what their complete functionality will be but watch my upcoming video about the vulcan to get an idea of how the drones might end up working.
@@billionaireninjas good, it just plain makes sense. Also reaffirms my feeling that the carrack will be a great lead ship for a repair/salvage org, depending on how much scanning gameplay will matter for finding distressed vessels and derelicts.
Maaaaaan, we can't have some concept ship that we won't be able to see out of (MISC) trying to take anything from the, long established, best ship in the verse. That's just silly.
Devs did say that exploration will be performed through mfd and we'll be able to see and scan things that are far beyond our vision range. Plus many capital ships have second bridge deep inside the hull without any vision at all and Carrack should be able to fly with it's cockpit armor covering the view. So pilot visibility will not affect neither flying nor exploring. Mailslot is a MISC feature, it would look weird without it. Windows are important for touring ships that usually have large view angle for pilot and passangers. As for Odyssey cons, I'd add cold and minimalistic interior with bare metal walls. Hull-C turned out ugly with copy-pasted assets from Starfarer. Carack is cosier and more suited for long expeditions or a role of a home base. Also I'm not sure how Odyssey is supposed to mine quantanium with a single laser. For Mole it usually takes one powerful laser to break the main rock and a weaker one for secondary chunks. If you try to break smaller ones with the main laser they instantly blow up.
To your first point. You are correct. However a mail slot could still be bigger an maintain the aesthetic or could have extra smaller window included with the mail slot. Also I argue viewing angle is just as important for explorers to see what they are exploring. We also don't know what MISC odyssey's interior will look like yet just a The ship is significantly more expensive than a Hull C and also has Xi'an tech that the Hull C does not have. Either way though that is a minor point of preference vs the utility I talked about in the video. If you like the look of the carrack interior better I wont try to convince you. As far as mining quantanium my guess is it will be a bespoke laser not just a random mining laser but we'll have to wait and see.
I have a feeling that either the Carrack or the Odyssey are going to get a rebalance sometime in the future. It just doesn't seem right that a ship larger than the Carrack only needs a minimum of 1 crew while the Carrack needs a minimum of 4. And as far as the ability to mine quantum fuel goes, I would bet my Carrack that there is going to eventually be modules that let you sacrifice cargo capacity for the ability to mine and refine materials.
You say it doesn't seem right I say it's balancing. Remember the Carrack has just about everything anyone could need in a ship it's a jack of all trades and still almost a master of one. The Odyssey is not a jack of all trades it's just an exploration ship. So what it can stay out longer, the carrack can go further before needing to stop. It has to have a high crew requirement to keep it from invalidating a bunch of other ships. That's the same reason that the Carrack won't get to mine and refine. I'm thinking those modular bays will be jump seats, Science, Research, medical beds, a brig, and maybe even a torpedo bay, but the one thing it won't get is the ability to mine and refine because the Odyssey exists. Just balancing.
@@billionaireninjas The crew numbers are based upon the number of active stations in combat that can't be controlled by one person. One pilot and three gunners for the Carrack. If the Odyssey has a minimum crew of one, that tells me that all of the turrets are remote turrets that can have AI blades slotted into. To me, the problem is the remote turrets. The carrack should really have two remote turrets instead of one. The turret at the bottom of the Carrack is too difficult to get to in a combat situation and wasn't very well thought out. If they were going to do anything to the Carrack it would be to make the bottom turret a remote like the top so that we can slot AI blades to control it. And the Carrack will never invalidate other ships that are specialized in their task. It is very easy to balance the modular bays to make the Carrack slightly less capable than the specialized ships by making you have to sacrifice cargo capacity for them. If the Carrack wasn't able to dip a little bit into everything, it completely invalidates the design of the Carrack.
The Carrack's defense is inadequate, with only size 4 guns, making it vulnerable to attacks, especially from ships with size 5 guns that outrange it. Despite using it primarily as a mobile respawn point, I'm frequently targeted and destroyed (they think im hauling a ton of cargo), which defeats its purpose for me. Additionally, its hangar is quite restricted, and many of its systems aren't yet implemented in the game. These issues make it a clear target and highlight the need for a significant rework.
@@billionaireninjas Orion, Merchantman, Odysse, Perseous, Hull-d, Reclaimer, the list goes on of all the ships in its class, cost, and size all have size 5 guns, yet somehow the Carrack got the shaft. It's an old concept ship that needs to be updated.
Those shops dont have the modularity of this ship though, also the Reclaimer, Odyssey, Orion, Hull D are much large and much slower, all three are capital ships. If I'm not mistaken the merchantman is bigger as well now.
I like exploration ships, a lot! I can see the Odyssey becoming my first MISC ship😊. Though I doubt true deep space exploration will be a thing, just base on current development I try to limit my SC channel subs to about 3, but I think you definitely earned a sub and like! I'm sure this channel will grow fast!
I don't think Carrack and Odyssey are meant to compete against each other. If you think about what exploration is in real world, there are many types of exploration like, finding systems/planets/life forms, etc. and then exploration like really going there (like on Mars or Moon) to find things like minerals, water, rare materials etc. (basically find samples, analyse ground). also, you could have the type of exploration that is a form of early colonization of newly discovered lands, etc. I think Carrack and Odyssey have different roles and purposes.
the carrack is not the odyssey, because the carrack isn’t a capital ship. it’s a frigate, and it’s actually what the idris would have been if it didn’t get larger for the demands of sq42. the odyssey is massive, and is def one of the closest things we’re ever going to get to the enterprise in star citizen. the carrack is more like the defiant, which, honestly, being a ds9 fan, i actually prefer.
The factor that impresses me most is the ability of people who play SC to be able to compare a ship that has already been launched and one that has not yet been launched. It's like comparing an RTX 4090 with an RTX 5090. There's no way to compare because it wasn't launched even though the company says it will have x specifications
But yet... We still know the RTX 5090 will be better. How!? Because we can take a very well-educated guess. At the same time. It's just fun to speculate. Don't place any vegas bets on what a RUclipsr says!
I look at promised features as never coming to the game - once they are implemented, I then make decisions about how or what I want to get. Things like the drone bay for the Carrack seem really functional - but until I either see CIG putting a heavy amount of time into getting those live, or actually see in PTU - I'm going to assume that the Carrack will never have drones, despite there being "space" in the ship for it. As it looks right now - the Odyssey will have more to offer in PU once it releases than the Carrack will.
it'll be a hard choice for me, the carrack is great but it doesnt feel like a spaceship to me although right now it is my home ship. i got the carrack so i can use the pods for science and research on some planet i decide will be my game loop but since that seems to so far away from reality that the odyssey might be the better choice for my adventures and since cig already said they wont make ships fully realistic meaning we can take heavy ships to a planet surface and still be able to leave we kinda have no incentives to not go big
But in a game like SC you don’t really need to “go as far as you can go indefinitely” the game is only going to have 5 systems, with all of them having infrastructure so you’ll always be able to refuel, not like ED where you can go to unpopulated areas of the galaxy and need to be self sufficient. Also once shards come into the game the carrack will be able to have automated turrets as well?
2 days ago the SC wiki states,,quote.......Locations in the Star Citizen universe are extremely diverse, ranging from lush Earth-like planets full of pristine wilderness to encumenopolises with every square inch of the planet covered in high tech supercity; from small seedy refueling space stations to a cobbled together pirate mega-station; from a bio-luminescent moon orbiting a rogue gas giant to the smashed corpse of a planet turned into an electrically charged asteroid formation full of industrial mining outposts and criminal hideouts alike. In total, there are 95 known star systems, consisting of 324 planets, 74 moons, 50 space stations and 76 asteroid formations, plus some even stranger sights.[
The distance argument always seems to miss a very important point. SC will never have an Elite Dangerous amount of solar systems. Even when exploring newly discovered systems, you'll never be more than a couple of jumps from a refueling station, let alone a friendly Starfarer to meet up with you. The true advantage of the Carrack will be finding jump points that other ships can't detect, not for finding new systems, but for finding shortcuts to existing systems. CIG simply won't be able to make systems fast enough for infrastructure to not catch up.
100 systems is still pretty big and never say never. Also every ship will be able to detect jump points the Carrack will just do it better. See the pinned comment.
Here is the real debate, structural repairs when the odyssey comes out, and if fuel siphoning becomes a thing. The carrack has better turret coverage, better drone versatility, potentially modular pods that can be detached for small ground claims. better size to find changing jump point zones. and the biggest key part is the armor and that the carrack doesnt have many structural parts to damage. The odyssey is bigger, we can debate how well it can be defended. the guns are forward most it seems on a ship its size. It has all the systems to keep itself supplied long term except repair. even if it can fit a vulcan it wont be able to handle structural repair. Looking at many misc ships the engines are usually internal and not able to be destroyed but the odyssey has these bigger external engines. The mining ability and refining of the ship are good features but will take away power from the powerplant, and potentially leave you in a weakened state if attacked with whatever downsides refineries have in the future. If the odyssey ends up having more structural parts even with capital class shields it can be crippled much easier, at a minimum if the mining tools are structural and they become damaged it may loose that fuction all together. The most common threat would be the potential of hazardous mining conditions in the future, the odyessey has basic mining tools and it will have to position itself in dangerous areas to get the fuel it wants. so say a rock explodes and damages your mining tool or engine you will need to repair. or if you are in harsh enviroments that you dont want your players being outside in the carrack will be better suited for it especially if the carracks repair room ends up being able to fix and upkeep suits and tools. eventually even your everyday gear will break down. and the final point is depending on how exploration works which from what we have heard in the past is that long range scanners can pick up poi in space that are dynamic and spawn random things quantum travel might become less needed for explorer ships except for escaping danger or covering lost ground. all in all The carrack isnt just an exploration ships it is a military HQ for small ground operations aswell. as its cargo pods standard will be more able to rapidly deploy ground squads for pvp and its turrets will have better coverage of the field. To replace the odyssey the carrack would probably team up with a starfarer at most. while the odyssey to replace the carrack would need a vulcan if not a crucible. and we will need to see its scanning abilities and navigation.
Wow this is in-depth I appreciate the effort you put into this. This is honestly why I started the channel. I think these are the conversations that need to be had regardless of whether we agree. The Vulcan being able to fit in this thing drastically changes the debate in favor of the Odyssey because that is a medium repair ship not a small. It is also a DEDICATED repair ship meaning it can repair everything better than the small bays on the Carrack the same way the Carrack can chart jump points better than the odyssey. You mentioned the powerplant being hampered by the mining, well it has a capital size powerplant to handle that. And if that's the argument, then the Carrack will suffer the same fate and be weaker when it charts jump points using all those radars and computers and cartography/map tables. But worse since it only has a large power plant. Which would take three to equal a capital. Not to mention all the repair drones and repair room you have to run on the same powerplant where my drones would be on the Vulcan's powerplant. Capital shields definitely will have a hard time being damaged by mining rocks or else what's the point of them. That being said even if not, I'll bet the Vulcan can repair any damage the rocks can do easily. What people forget about the Vulcan is it adds two beds to the Odyssey and it allows the Odyssey to refuel AND rearm a whole other ship. Meaning you can bring another ship with you outside of the Odyssey and Vulcan all the way up to a medium at least. Now I have yet to see anyone make the argument that the Carrack is better than an Odyssey plus two medium ships. Now imagine if I paired this with a Redeemer (all lasers). Which adds another 4 beds and all the weapons to protect the odyssey. Or better yet a Constellation Aquila to bring the jump point mapping capability up to the level of the Carracks plus add 4 beds, a snub fighter, an ursa rover, 2 size 6 turrets, and 96 SCU. Lastly I agree with your final point the Carrack is a better PVP ship and it will be better at the multi role but I think you are heavily overestimating it's repairing ability. Also while a starfarer adds the ability to keep going to the Carrack it is literally the only ship you can pair it with to do so. Because the Odyssey doesn't need the refueling it can pair with tons of other ships like the ones I listed above. Also let's not forget that I am in favor of both ships succeeding and being great.
@@billionaireninjas the odyssey power plant hinderance is with the refinery. refinery gameplay is suppost to take a lot of management and probably wont be safe to fullly stop doing it while active. The benifit of 2 powerplants or shield gens is that can can be manually disengaged and swapped to rechharge them and negate emp weapons. you cannot interchange capital class power plants and parts. The repair function of the carrack drone wise is a possibility not fully in stone but the repair room is likely able to fix gear or components. Im just saying depending on the structural parts of the odyssey, if it needs any structural repair for any major part it can be crippled. the carrack has a body , a nose, and 2 wings, non of which are vital to the ships real function, so even if you have to hand repair the carrack it will be fine. partially why i look at other misc ships they tend to have internal engines but the ody looks very diifferent to them and if the mining tools are structural it has the ability to loose its major upside. taking things like the starfarer it needed the gemini version to help give it more protection so in general i expect most misc ships to rely on shields. so balistic damage or any failure of shiellds in a fight could be major.
@@billionaireninjas video looks good mate and no worries. Just something only I seem to bring up for this game is structural repair, the crucible is the only ship we have heard iis suppost to have structural repair. So when you see videos talking about the best of a ship i dont think they take structural repair into account. Starting ship wise for example the fighters can loose wings and suffer in atmo, ships like the cutter can loose engines and become unusable, things like the aurua and the nomad have internall engines which may be able to repair with hand tools but we need to see first.
Melted the Odyssey. Finally started sinking in on how many years the Odyssey will be released and how many years before exploration is actually a thing that would benefit from a large ship like the Odyssey or Carrack. Years and years. Secondly, the Odyssey isn't really better at exploration. It's main advantages are a large hangar and mining it's own fuel. But even in Pyro CIG has added way more refuel stations than originally anticipated, effectively rendering the Starfarer, Odyssey etc useless. If this continues for the rest of the systems, there won't be much of a point to using the Odyssey. Thirdly, Carrack has better scanning, drones, modularity (which may allow it to do base building), and more guns. Odyssey just seems like a large cargo vessel that has a large hangar and can refuel itself. There's a lot more to exploration than simply being able to stay out indefinitely (which isn't even true since you will run out of supplies, unless crafting and finding food and water on planets becomes a thing, who knows). All of this can be fun to theorize, but at the end of the day, CIG is unreliable, tardy and double backs on many of the things they say. So....personally, I stay away from most long-term concepted game loops and the ships associated with them.
Imo, you got it backwards: Carrack is an extra-system explorer - jump points and the unknown beyond charted space. It has less shields and offense because it will often be outside of reasonable range of hostility. Odyssey is an "industrial" explorer - poking around for resource discovery and POIs in a system. It has better defense/offense as it will more often be in hostile and contested space.
I don't quite understand this logic. If we have a space ship that has a huge fuel tank it can make it however far that fuel tank allows but it will ALWAYS NEED to return to a base at some point. So even if it can make it from Earth to Jupiter on it's tanks it still has to count on another fueler to refuel. Meanwhile a ship that can refuel itself might only make it from earth to mars before it has to refuel itself but it never has to stop moving forward to go backwards or depend on anyone, meaning it could make it from earth to pluto if it needed to, albeit slower than the ship with the huge fuel tank which would need a refueling point somewhere between earth and Jupiter to make it to Pluto.
Nope. Paul Jones is the only one that made that "claim", and then left shortly after. Also missiles are irrelevant, as a consumable you won't be mining those. The Odyssey is a long range "prospecting" ship at best, the Carrack is Mary Sue by comparison, and by the way I have both. 😏
I know! the Carrack Killer thing is mostly a joke though to be honest. I thought that would be more clear but I'm not the best at sarcasm. Also you are absolutely right you can't mine missiles. That doesn't make them irrelevant, It just mean you need to save them for a rainy day. Maybe the rainiest day. I'm not seeing where people get the prospecting thing from but we'll see. I'll probably end up with both but I have to see if I can afford an Idris first lol
Other than looks I have no idea how the Carrack could be better. Also, I'm really losing hope exploration is actually a thing in this game, the ship seems to be sinking and I expect them to finally accepting limitaitons soon, and WHY would you need such humongous ships to just move a bit, use a few gates to travel to the very few ACTUAL systems with any hand made content and then go back to sell some stuff in a capital planet.
Exists is a strong word to use here. I have a JPEG that suggests it exists. If that is not enough... I fly it in my dreams... If that is not enough it exists in my heart!
I doubt the odyssey is gonna get the star map. This cartography map is gonna probably make the carrack better for exploration and discovering etc. But odyssey gonna be better to stay away on itself. So it's a different type of exploration.
Finished your video, and you're wrong: Carrack is a superior exploration ship and is better designed to be one. Secondly, the Odyssey is a better extreme range transport ship. In fact, that is all I'd want it for, and it seems to be built for that. This is why i don't mind the mail slot window. Ship fleets would be capable of extreme ranges and can solve all the crew needs and ship needs. But to get cargo way way way out in deep space would also require the whole fleet to fly home. Or an extreme range ship built for large cargo transport/ personnel transport that is self-sufficient. This is where the odyssey is the only available option outside of small fleet movements.
Ah context is key here. I said "as far as exploration the Odyssey is the Carrack killer" lol I just don't think saying that means what everyone else thinks. They have different roles. The Carrack is to find data and bring it back the odyssey is literally just to explore...and then keep exploring. You don't ever have to come back if you prep well enough and find a way to replenish your stores. I guess we have different ideas about what exploration is supposed to be. I think more Star Trek 5 year mission rather than deep space cargo ship.
One is not out.. and the other is not even fully complete.. we don't know what they will change or add until they complete the carrack so well see when they are both gold complete 🤷
Lmao I do prefer the anvil Aesthetic to MISC generally but I'll hold judgement until I see the Odyssey in-game. Also did you know the Odyssey could fit a Vulcan in it's Hangar? Repair bots? No problem.
It all depends on what you mean by "able" and "solo". if able means doing so and having the ship use at least 50% of it capability. then I will be able to solo it, that being said, I never will. I'll always bring a friend or npc. Unless you count bringing an NPC as solo.
The Carrack exists. The Odyssey doesn't, and probably won't for years. We have zero idea what the Odyssey will be, and I doubt CIG has more than a vague idea, too. Attempting to compare them is comparing reality with fantasy. Fantasy will always win. We can HOPE the Odyssey will be X or Y or Z. Hope it will be cool and fun and useful. But that is yet to be determined. So the Carrack wins by default. Despite the broken and missing state many of its systems are in. The cargo bay might never get fixed. Drones might never get implemented. Cartography might never happen. And still it would win because you can fly it around in the game, whereas the Odyssey you can only fly in your imagination.
I'd say that since Exploration gameplay also isnt in the game it's fair grounds to compare them based on that. But you're right it's all speculation... Isn't it fun though!
The engine would just control efficiency, power, and speed not range. It has two large tanks for both fuel and Quantum that determine how far it can go.
You are right, I went to the site and it had been a long time, it's all changed. I wish I had a screenshot of this "ion engine" quote a saw. if I can spot enemy ship from far away with my carrack I'm sill usefull to my team, until they change it :) cool video @@billionaireninjas
I'll make sure to charge you more when I have to come refuel you with the starfarer lol (its broken in the game right now, why no one uses it, you can only request docking once, it won't prompt you after the 1 time) - and every station has fuel, wont be the circumstance in the future
@@billionaireninjas I’m hyped for the Polaris to drop just so more work can be done to get the Galaxy to gold standard. Now that they introduced the building module I’m sure I will buy it upon completion. Have a good day :)
ALL SHIPS CAN CHART JUMP POINTS "In general, all ships will be able to detect jump points, though the Carrack is simply better at doing it and from much greater ranges." CIG robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/18470-Q-A-MISC-Odyssey#:~:text=In%20general%2C%20all%20ships%20will,and%20from%20much%20greater%20ranges.
Will it still be better if you put a terrapin in the odyssey hangar?
@@wifegrant How can you compare a small ship like the Terrapin to a dedicated capital exploration ship like Carrack? It will have much larger and powerful sensors and will have exploration drones that can explore an entire system, Terrapin is like a small boat with just a size 2 radar, even if Odyssey can carry a Terrapin it won't be able to expand its exploration capability to put it on par with the Carrack
For either to truly come into their own CIG will have to figure out how to handle logging off/on on someone else's ship.
It was possible before PES. It'll be added back well before the Carrack and Odyssey are able to perform their intended roles.
A solution or two for that would be to have assigned beds where a player can log in to and only that player and the ship owner can reset the bed to default. Or CIG would need to somehow make the spawn loader recognize the other player's ship as your destination when logging in.
Once server meshing is fully implemented you will be able to log off everywhere and log on at the precise spot where you logged off.
player bodies need to be persistent too.
Until the Ody arrives and Exploration is in game, in full... we simply don't know. I think it's far too early to say, we just don't know how it's going to unfold. A fun thought experiment though, no doubt both ships will be great competitors and this conversation will continue to be 'discussed' long after the game officially goes live, lol.
Yes. I'm a firm believer that both ships are great and we need both to succeed. I just think Carrack owners sometimes think it's the only ship in the game that can do anything right.
Odyssey is an resource exploration ship.
Carrack is system and navigation exploration ship with modularity to increases its possible roles beyond the default at the cost of cargo storage.
What if one of the Carrack modules is a quantanium mining and refining module?
Like I said in the video we'll have to wait and see what those modules are to really gauge the space between the Odyssey and the Carrack. But since we're doing what-if's... What if the Odyssey's hanger grows to fit some of the smaller medium ships???
@billionaireninjas I agree. If the Odyssey can fit a Terrapin, then it will have the same capabilities as a Carrack.
Ah... See my friend. It already can fit a Terrapin! They confirmed that in the Q&A!
I'm personally waiting on the Odyssey. The carrack was the first big ship i put cash towards. I honestly don't like the layout,alot of wasted space. in combat it easily gets smoked. The carrack should probably have size 5s and an interior rework. Even the Odyssey is not in game the carrack is a make believe ship. Mine ended up becoming a Polaris
The Carrack's sells pitch was as the greatest exploration ship.
The Carrack mini-game created by CIG showed it as a great exploration ship.
The Carrack as delivered is just a regular ship with some special and unfinished features.
Yes I'm pissed.
Almost time to get an Odyssey, isn't it. Why get pissed?
They sold the carrack as the exploration ship and later changed it to exploring jump points so they can call the odyssey the exploration ship and get more sales. I have a carrack and wont be changing it until the game gets proper gameplay for it. No more money for CIG, they can't keep their word.
Good night nurse. Yet ANOTHER video that doesn't understand the difference between these two ships. The Odyssey and Carrack are VERY different ships with completely different intended exploration functions. The Carrack is a deep space explorer. It has stellar cartography, exploration based drones and science oriented functions designed to detect and find things like jump points. The drones will work to explore connection points inside worm holes that connect systems in a temporary manner. The Odyssey is a planetary explorer. The reason it can mine its own quatanium is because it is a planet mapper. With the ability to do soil, mineral and topography analysis. The Odyssey is the ship you send out ahead of the Pioneer to explore a planet's surface. This video continues to pass along information further dividing the community on these two ships. The reality is we NEED both of them as one explores above the planet and the other explores on the planet.
Did you watch the video? because with what you're saying it sounds like you only read the title but I could be wrong. I do recall saying in the video they serve different purposes. Both ships can find jump points, Carrack can just find them better that's CIG words not mine. As far as what the Carrack's drones can do I would love to include that in my video but I need a source for all the information in this comment. I try to make it very clear when I'm speculating vs when I'm stating what I can source. I'm not sure which this comment is. And good night to you as well!
@@billionaireninjas I did watch the entire video. Appreciate the work put into it and the opportunity to dialogue further. There is a lot of misconceptions on these two ships and the disconnect between the marketing and product briefs add to the confusion. happy to dialogue offline and get into more details.
Sure the Carrack has the better armour, speed, turret coverage, pilot view, command and control functions, and mapping suite, but we are still missing the two biggest sells: Flying bridge and Captain's quarters.
I think the mail slot is going to work on the Odyssey because the artwork makes it look like it will be from floor to ceiling and wrap around the wall several meters.
You know what we really need is a new MFD module for external cameras to help land ships. It would also give a co-pilot more to do. as they can dedicate more or all of their MFDs to camera for spotting targets in blindspots, helping land by watching all the landing gear points at once, or monitoring entry points for boarders during battles.
I remember reading cig saying that there will be a lot more visible than people think so the mail slot won't be a disadvantage. Your second point is fantastic and you need to start telling cig about it
Landing definitely needs some love. Didn't they have a landing assist display in the past?
Very succinct and well reasoned video.
Carrack owner; drones, modules, repair bay, its military pedigree, and Ursa/C8 bonus make it the ship for me. I'll likely run with a C8R, and a ground vehicle with more utility, once they are a thing...base builder/amberlamps/hauler. The Odyessy is sexy AF, but I don't need both.
Don't forget how fast the carrack for its size
Yes the speed is going to be a factor as well. I can't wait to find out the speed of the Odyssey to compare.
@@billionaireninjas7 engines of Odyssey will make work !
Little known fact, the Starfarer is dead in the water. The reason no one is using it is because it can not refuel. I don't know when it happened but the fuel nozzle which connects to the other ships is missing and when you go to buy one at the store it disappears from your inventory. On top of that the ship loadout manager does not recognize or even see it to put it on your ship. I have bought four of them and none of them are in the inventory but Nik Nax sees them in the utility section of the inventory. Many people have posted this to the Issue Counsel but there are so few Starfarer owners it gets archived before enough people can confirm it.
If there is one ship that I am certain will get a rework. It is indeed the Starfarer. It only sucks because of how much they had to keep it the same in squadron 42 because it's a level in the game. My guess is they rework fueling as well. They have to make that gameplay loop more fun and more profitable or nobody will buy the ship.
Different ships, different roles. Comparatives are weird.
Comparatives are definitely weird... But also fun!
I like comparisons. Sure a few things will be different but the people that want to use these ships will likely debate which one fits them, these videos help clarify things for buyers.
A Caterpillar vs Carrack vs Galaxy helped me decide I’d like to own a Galaxy for my own modular style of gameplay
@@Vioblight yes thats fine and all, but ultimately it always goes back to picking the right ship for the job. Too many people but ships becuae iyt looks cool but then moan becuase it doesn't do what they want it to do.
This I Agree on. It will come down to picking the right ship for each job. It's why I own a whole fleet of ships. I also think that's why we need to compare. So we can see which ship does what and is right for which job.
Their roles aren’t different at all, and CIG directly compared them. People just like to say this as a thought terminating cliche.
Until they physicalize cargo and you can't load the damn Carrack.
Here from the phyicalized cargo future utopia and lmfao
@@arenomusic Here from the 4.0 PTU future with carrack cargo doors lmfao
Carrack is love, Carrack is life
Delusional
Carrack is home
After the carrack rework they did, Carrack is garbage Carrack is junk! (and saying it a backer whom put alot of money especially cause of the carrack) such disappointment, replaced it with the Odyssey
@@orelo437 sure bro have fun waiting for your jpeg
Carrack has drones so I’m hoping we can use base building drones that were announced at CitCon.
About the Carrack Vs Odyssey, we do not know what and how scanning functions will work. The Carrack has the 4 large retractable antenna's and the Odyssey has a large fixed antenna at the front and another scanner located beneath just above the main ramp, there is no information about how these will function/work and how these compare.
Until we know what and how these scanning devices do and their respected specifications we can then determine which ship is best/ better for purpose and type of exploration scanning.
I think both will be great at scanning. My main point in the video is both need to succeed. The Odyssey for going further, the Carrack for getting more details along the way.
The Carrack is also a military ship equipped with armor and is the Swiss Army knife of exploration. It can transport ships and ground vehicles without losing any cargo space. Can be a command and control ship for small to med orgs. with its full map system cartography room. To top it all off Modularity .
What if you spend most of your time, searching for mineables to refine fuel for the Odyssey instead of exploring ?
You will have fun refueling in Pyro.
what you are forgetting,.. one ship has an infinite range to reach the unknown, the other ship is dependent on fuel and cannot travel as far. if you cannot travel as far to explore, what ship is a better explorer!!!???
@@thegamingtribunal It depends on what you perceive as exploration, it's a very loose term. My mental image of how the game will ultimately play out, will be with unstable jump points opening up and closing constantly, with the Carrack's superior computers and scanning arrays being able to plot an affectively course utilizing these unstable jump points. (Eve Online had a similar concept, with the Wormholes serving as insane shortcuts between large spans of space). Fuel isn't critical when doing that, since you already know what your destination is, you are merely mapping it out.
The Odyssey would be more inline with what most people perceive as "Exploration" being that it will slow-boat its way across the universe. It doesn't have as sophisticated a scanning systems as the Carrack, so it would rely more on a scanning ship onboard (Terrapin maybe?) to coordinate the logistics of the route.
@@cbrown596 that's a good take, but... Imagine doing that and getting stuck there due to a lack of fuel unable to make a QT jump anywhere due to the sheer size of a system!!!!.... I cant wait 🤣
The most important aspect of a Carrack for expedition - Jump charting computers and equipment/sensors that an Odyssey DOES NOT HAVE.
If you come across an uncharted jump point, only one ship is going through that JP, and shocker, its not the Odyssey. The Carrack is what you use to explore as a profession, the Odyssey is what you use to prospect for a base/mining operation.
This is the exact thing that I'm trying to talk about in the video...there is a source for these things. My source that the Odyssey will be able to chart jump points is literally in the MISC Odyssey Q&A. It says "all ships will be able to detect jump points" the Carrack will be better at it, and do it at a greater range... Not the only one who can do it. robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/18470-Q-A-MISC-Odyssey#:~:text=In%20general%2C%20all%20ships%20will,and%20from%20much%20greater%20ranges.
The Carracks Pisces has a data link that links to the Carrack that I think is the way they can sell the data of the smaller JP.
There is no way a Odyssey can do that even if they put a Pisces in it.
But with that said I like the independence of the Odyssey.
Valid point!
Generally not a fan of the idea that longevity in the black = exploration. Maybe that's a failing on my part but the Carrack will be able to do far more once it gets there than the Odyssey. The Odyssey has no drones to repair itself or perform survey tasks like the Carrack does, it has no cartography deck, it has no advanced scanners or really any special qualities of any kind except the ability to refuel itself and carry a wider variety of ships in its bay.
The Odyssey's biggest flaw is it's only mission specific abilities really tie down to what ship it carries in the hangar and it cannot refuel that craft with its mining capabilities. If it had been able to do so, I might have been tempted to pull the trigger. However, a ship who's primary role is to a mothership with infinite fuel and cannot use that fuel for the ship its carrying seems flawed in concept to me. Yes I know carrier ships of all kinds (Liberator, etc) will be able to refuel craft it carries via a manual process from ship stores but the Carrack hold's twice as much storage as the Odyssey so there goes that.
I do like that the Odyssey is effectively a modular ship with the smaller ship it carries being the "module", but no ship it carries will make it a better explorer than the Carrack by any stretch of the imagination...with one caveat....we don't know how big a difference scanner size and specific bonuses from special stations will actually generate. If the difference is only so big and can be made up with a marginal bit of additional effort when exploring a new star system, I may re-evaluate.
I would agree except it can use the fuel for the ship it's carrying! Also it can carry a Vulcan so if repair is a need. Do that.
@@billionaireninjas unless I am greatly mistaken, the Odyssey Q&A specified that fuel mined with the Odyssey willnot be able to be used for hangar craft. I want to like the Odyssey but I can't get past this point.
Also, if I eat up the bay with a Vulcan, I probably cant use it for much else...sadface
The Q&A said it can ONLY fuel the ships in the hangar. It cant fuel any other ships though. The Vulcan adds two things in my book the ability to bring an external ship along and repair. The Odyssey fuels the vulcan then the vulcan fuels the exterior ship. It's a workaround that I've found with the information available! Rejoice!
@@billionaireninjas Not how I read it but would be cool if you're right about that. Would turn Oddy with Vulkan into a nice deep space S&R ship. I personally think the "manual" refueling in the Oddy Q&A will work like the "manual" refueling in the Liberator Q&A but I'd love to either be wrong in that or for CIG to simply be inconsistant as to what they mean by "manual/on-foot" process. Love your videos btw. Peace :)
When in doubt....buy them both!!!
Wallet say no more space jpeg lol
The odyssey look more like a capital ship
It is!
I wouldn't be surprised if the ody triggers a design language change in the mail-slot viewport. Like increasing the size of it by 50 percent or even double isn't going to make it not look like it's misc lmao
It just doesn't make sense for a space ship which flies in every possible direction to have a pilot view slot like an airplane that flies in one direction.
@@billionaireninjas for real, especially one that's supposed to get a good look at everything to EXPLORE lmao. Manufacturers design language is cool but gotta chill on the less liked aspects when it's in contrast to function haha
I did look at the odyssey video again it does look like they have an observer room but I hop it has screens that are like cameras where you can take pictures.
The way I see it:
Carrack = Giant Cutter Scout/Terrapin
Odyssey = Giant Cutter Rambler/Freelancer DUR
With the recent updates to the Carrack I may stick with it. I feel blast shields should be on EVERY ship with such visibly open cockpits. At the end of the day regardless of what everyone is saying that they are different and aren't comparable well.....they are both definitely deep space exploration ships. Depending on what modules they give the Carrack would be another make or break point for me as the hangar in the Odyssey will fit most medium fighters.
The pilot will not be able to control the remote turrets on the Odyssey. Where in the world did you dream that up?
I didn't dream it! At least I don't think I did. The Odyssey says Crew of 1 minimum right? So that would mean at least one pilot controlled weapon? I suppose that could be wrong but I dunno. What was your dream about?
You forgot to mention the repair room in the carrack. you can fix components
I suppose I assumed by saying it had repair capabilities that covered it but technically you're right!
It will only be able to repair size 0 and 1 components, not that great. Sure, you can keep the pisces at full HP, but it won't help any of the carracks components
@@sorincaladera936 Carack has repair drones mate
Shame it forgotten is capital components can't be repaired or replaced anywhere other than a shipyard. The Carrack can have its large components repaired and replaced anywhere.
Add to the the dual components increases the redundancy of the Carrack components, while the Odyssey single components makes it dead due to component lose and require towing to an shipyard for fixing/replacing.
So much changes so fast in this game, we forget to focus on what makes us happy.
Given the star Lancer’s mail slot window -- i’m guessing they are totally not going to give that up for MISC ships. I like the carrots, big unobstructed window and it’s general interior aesthetics… so basically that’s why I’m sticking with it over the Odyssey (not metrics)
CIG just needs to give Odyssey owners what they want as far as fueling other ships by making an external fuel port that you have to attach a hose to and carry over to the other ship to refuel , the catch is having to manually carry the hose over and the fuel you give pulls from your own tanks.. Fun and balanced
My guess it will get a hose in the hangar to refuel landed ships.
No need for an external fuel port as you have starfarers for that duty. All the Odyssey needs is the ability to refuel docked ships.
Idk it has the range difference but with the changes to mining quant is much harder to find so you’d be more likely to be searching for it more than finding it, so that in itself reduces its range. Aside for the before mentioned shields and tractors are good.
This is definitely something to consider. Hopefully CIG balances that out.
The part where you gave an explanation on the different roles of both ships really clicked with me. If CIG doesent make that exactly as you stated, they would be trolling
The Carack is a heavy intel gathering ship for PVP. Good sensors for spotting targets and relaying that data and while the odyssey has 3 duals s5 turrets, their positioning sucks and leave a lot of blind spots, like it was designed by someone who didn't know what a turret was suppose to do. if the two ships fought the Carack could always keep 6 S4 guns on the Odyssey while rolling to shield share. Every time the Odyssey rolls to let its shield recover its going to go from 4 S5 to 2 S5 and back which will negate its firepower and shield size advantage.
In short, the Carrack is build more for being part of a PVP fleet, the Odyssey is built to go exploring.
Even if what you're saying ends up correct...then we're saying the same thing. The Odyssey is the better exploration ship and the Carrack is the Better Multi-role ship.
The Carrack is also a military ship equipped with armor and is the Swiss Army knife of exploration. It can transport ships and ground vehicles without losing any cargo space. Can be a command and control ship for small to med orgs. with its full map system cartography room. To top it all off Modularity .
What if you spend most of your time, searching for mineables to refine fuel for the Odyssey instead of exploring ?
By saying it's a swiss army knife (which is literally a multi-tool) again you're saying the same thing I am. Both Carrack and Odyssey can transport ships...the Odyssey can actually carry a bigger vehicle AND a bigger ship than the Carrack. Both can be Command and control ships, Cartography Rooms aren't required for that role but that does show that the Carrack will be better at it.
I doubt that CIG will make an exploration ship where you have to spend most of your time refueling it rather than exploring. The Carrack needs larger tanks because once it's out, it has to return to base. The Odyssey can use the space those extra tanks take up for other things.
@@billionaireninjas To clarify, what I'm saying is I think the Odyssey shines on its own, out in space mainly doing PVE content, and will not be something you would ever want to pvp in, or even do heavy combat PVE in. The Carrack is a fleet element using its drones and C&C suite to support pve and pvp fleet engagements. The Carracks guns let it work as a torpedo and anti fighter screen for larger ships and its cargo bay lets it increase the fleets supplies by quite a bit. When the Carrack is on its own though, its mainly scouting for the fleet, not going on long range expeditions. Its two completely deferent kinds of exploration.
@@billionaireninjas No, the Carrack has dedicated exploration equipment like advanced scanners and exploration drones, also will probably carry science modules or extra fuel tank module, the Odyssey doesn't which means the Carrack is intended to be the best exploration ship for scientific purpose like the USS Enterprise, the Odyssey is intended for industrial exploration this is why it is a civilian ship, a different type of exploration than most people imagine.
Gameplay wise the carrack is the explorer ship, it will find the points and survive to make sure its safe.
the odyssey is the long duration civilian colonizer type ship. it will go to point the carrack has scouted and land for long term operations. as it can supply its own oxygen and recycle water. The carrack wont be able to do long term planetary stays without resupply unless there is a modular bay for food/oxygen/water/and fuel.
That being said the carrack can always team with a starfarer which can hold those supplies for it and potentially refill most things but food. so ideally what would be the best pairing for the carrack is a starfarer and a few food modules on the carrack. that way the starfarer can focus on fuel and maybe emergancy food and water in its tanks while also replacing the lost cargo space from the carrack.
idk the prices right now but carrack plus starfarer will be around 1k and the odysse plus whatever you put inside will be around 1k.
Carrack plus Vulcan is $900. Not to mention the Vulcan allows you to bring whatever other ship you want all the way up to an aquila because you can refuel it, rearm it, and repair it with the Vulcan which gets an unlimited fuel supply from the Odyssey.
@@billionaireninjas perhaps but ody plus vulcan plus ground vehicle plus aquila is probably.... 1200-1300. They havnt given us any information on if repair drones can do structural repair so the aquila for example can loose its 4 engines which means its at risk of being stranded. the carrack has internal engines that do not fall off so it doesnt really need structural repair as of yet.
carrack and a starfare is about 1k. all it would need to last in space is a food module that recycles air and water like the odyssey to stay out longer. and if fuel siphoning ever becomes a thing the carrack may have access to that with drones.
@@billionaireninjas not if the ody does handle well and is able to hold the vulcan it could pair well with the carrack potentially if it can produce and share food air and water and fuel. but the carrack better pairs with the starfarer for now and probably the endever. if the starfarer gets to hold water, air, and liquid food. if the carrack gets a modlule for food production then starfarer works for fuel.
Great commentary. One thing you missed for the Carrack: it can traverse more jump points, since it is a Large ship and not limited to Capital sized jump points. Also, the C8 can use all jump points, making the Carrack have access to any sized Jump point, and not have to "go-the-long-way-around" which the Odyssey will be forced to do.
I keep hearing this "go the long way around" thing. maybe you're right. Do you have a source for this?
@@billionaireninjas At Citizencon and the test for Pyro they talked about wormholes again, so that is the most recent source.
The Carrack is the largest ship that can fit through a medium wormhole (the wormhole from Stanton to Pyro is medium).
The Zeus is the largest ship that can fit through a small wormhole.
That is the current plan anyway.
I found a clips from both Citizencon 2019 and 2021 that show a carrack going through the medium jump point. However it says nothing about it being the only ship that can. All I know is a Xenothreat Idris fit through that Pyro Medium Jump Point so My guess is a Odyssey will as well. Even still who says that only medium jump points to pyro will be available? I wish they would update the starmap.
@@billionaireninjas An odyssey super wont go through medium jump points, it is wider by quite a bit. You can find star maps with the jump point connections with the information we know for all of the systems.
@@billionaireninjas I tried to link the wiki to you but youtube deleted it. The starcitizen tools wiki has all the systems with all the jump points and their sizes.
Also I did not say that the Carrack is the only ship that can go through the jump point, only that it is the largest.
CIG has stated that the Carrack is the largest a few times but I cant be bothered to go through tens of hours of footage to find a 5 second clip.
I own both so I won't lose in this debate, but I will be keeping tabs on features as the game progresses.
When your wallet allows... The world is your oyster.
Considering what the Carrack was supposed to be 9 years ago in original concept...far before what it is now. Its a disappointing shell of its former self. It was Prometheus. Its size was closer to the 890 jump and had a larger vehicle bay and hangar with cool antennas and a radar dish. I melted my Carrack as soon as the odyssey was announced. You buy a concept ship expecting one thing only for it to be miniaturized.
Thats true.
9 years ago had it at 120m length lol, not far off from the size now. You're thinking of the 170m growth spurt it had before the final version
3:37 one of the most buggy features, right next to elevators and ladders. 😂
IMO the Odyssey needs to be able to refuel the Starfarer and it's tanks in the field, as well as internally docked ships. That could intern store and refuel other ships as needed without needing to go to a station or any other facility. Also The Odyssey should fly with a small fleet not too far behind including 2 Carracks a Starfarer and an Expanse. Rather than a StarTrek like mission it would be more like BattleStar Galactica with it's ragtag support fleet not far behind. This concept would also work for small pirate fleets as well.
still worried about that horrid mail slot - NO ONE LIKES IT... STOP.
Scream it with me! We will win this fight!
the control room should take a part from the fury blast shields and just add screens to the inside good view and who ever at CIG has a slit fetish will still be good
I can't wait to see what the odyssey looks like after it goes through all the design work. I imagine exploration gameplay has a lot of work before we can see these ships really duke it out for the crown.
Nice comparison video! I always say: If you can't decide which of the two ships should be in the hangar - just take both :)
Tractor beams built into the Odyssey doesn't matter. The Carrack is equipped with M3-A Multifunction Space Drones which are able to perform tug functions, it isn't a stretch to believe they'd be capable of moving cargo into the Carrack. These drones don't need to be replaced, as they are multifunction as the name implies. They have the capability of doing Rearm, Repair, Mining, and Salvage, of note however is that the Carrack can control NEMO drones like the Nautilus can. The difference being the Carrack can only use them to disarm mines, not recover them them.
I'm open to believing what you say here, I just need some sources because I can't find CIG sources for the cargo thing. I already know about the swappable drones. However I have not seen any compatibility confirmation with mining or salvage only rearming and the ability to disable mines. The carrack is the closest thing we have to a do everything ship but it won't actually do everything as people are expecting it to do. I gave it a high rating in my review because it's awesome but I think people are going to be upset when modularity doesn't give them every in-game capability.
Im basically scrapping/upgrading all my "exploration" ships. "Exploration" as a gameplay loop is a pipe dream. Cargo/Combat/Mining/Salvaging are the only valid gameplay loops after 12 years. Thats because in a video game i think its almost impossible to create spontaneous "exploration" gameplay thats actually fun and fulfilling. Loon at Eve Online. "exploration" is just scanning and hacking mini games
That was a great video.
Glad you enjoyed it!
You forgot about the Repair Room in addition to the drones in the Carrack... There is also a great possibility that the Carrack will get a Refinery Module when modularity is implemented.
I just generally said repair to try to cover that but as far as we know that repair room is only for "small parts" and we don't know what that means yet. Best case scenario for component and drone repair. Worst case fixing gear.
@@billionaireninjas it's specifically for component repair
You had me right up to where you said the Odyssey was a better EXPLORATION ship than the Carrack. You equated exploration with range and that is a logical fallacy. Exploration is not just about going a long distance, it's about finding things of value when you get there. If you go into deep space and than came back with nothing you couldn't get locally were you really exploring? I think not. The goal of exploration is to discover valuable things. This makes the Carrack a superior exploration ship, second only to an equipped Endeavor.
The problem is that the Odyssey has no dedicated scanning capability. You are expected to take a scanning ship with you which limits the size of the scanner to what will fit in the hangar ie a single size 2 or medium (terrapin) scanner or perhaps 2 Cutter Scouts. The Carrack has all the facilities for powerful large scanners built in AND a drone bay for long range probes which can scan large areas of a system simultaneously.
If you want to talk about exploration then talk about what matters to exploration: scanning and computers, not just the maximum range. The Odyssey will disappoint many when they realize its only special capability isn't all that useful in practice and spending hours in quantum travel only to not be able to do much when you get there sucks.
The Carrack can easily find undiscovered jump points and travel to other systems using less fuel than those taking the long, slow way.
Why would an Odyssey come back with nothing? It can still scan just not as far as the carrack... It just has to move closer. A lot of people seem to think the Carrack is the only ship with scanning ability. It's just better at it. It gets buffs. Check the MISC Odyssey Q&A that is confirmed. Also when you look at it the Odyssey has one more computer than the Carrack and the Carrack has one more radar. So If what you say is true... The Carrack can FIND more data but the Odyssey can STORE more data. Like I said. Both need to succeed. Not just one so I'm not praying on the downfall of either nor the disappointment of the owners of either. I hope both end up being great!
@@billionaireninjas Exploration ships typically have dedicated scanners and stations....except the Odyssey. The Terrapin, Aquila, 600i, 400i, Freelancer DUR, MSR, etc. They all have dedicated exploration focused scanners ABOVE AND BEYOND the standard sensor suite installed in every ship.
How does an Odyssey get closer to something it can't see and doesn't know is there? You're basically just pinging around in the dark hoping something shows up on radar. The Carrack will integrate the data from all the scanners and probes into a cohesive map via the cartography suite. It's a sensor platform. The Odyssey by contrast is a flying small hangar. It's a general purpose ship with more in common with the Liberator than a Carrack.
One area I see the Odyssey excelling is scouting locations for base building and land claims. The extended range allows you to go from undeveloped place to undeveloped place indefinitely and to use the hangar to deploy a ship to do detailed scanning of a small area. It's classified as an Expedition ship and I think it's a better expedition ship than the Carrack but not exploration.
The Carrack also has 2 large fuel tanks, the Odyssey has one. The Carrack has enough fuel to make a return trip, the Odyssey needs to find and make the fuel to get back. I don't have anything against the Odyssey but it's actually a pretty niche ship, its super power being able to make its own fuel.
It's also worth mentioning that the Carrack comes with a C8 Pisces and an Ursa rover free in the box, the Odyssey comes empty.
@@billionaireninjas Both need to suceed but in different types of exploration, Odyssey won't be like the USS Enterprise if this is what you hope, the Carrack will.
I would like to see a single/duo/trio player larger but not to large cap/home ship. Large enough for two snubs or one light/med fighter. Couple of turrets. Tier 3 med bed. Exploration/defence… Drake Corsair upgraded/Consolidated Outland Druid??
Are there any hints / signs / rumors about when the Odyssey will be flight ready?
My guess is it will come after exploration gameplay is fleshed out, I'm thinking along with Star Citizen 1.0 so maybe CitizenCon 2026.
I'll settle this debate in one sentence.
Carrack exists and is already in game, everything about Oddysey is just a .jpg and can change anytime.
Thank you.
I mean the odyssey exists too! In our hearts!
I've always said they are very different ships and there is scope for both in the game I own the Carrack but they Odyssey is pretty cool and there is flexibility enough once more systems come online e.g. the Terrapin is a pathfinder you'll definitely fit that in the odyssey, it might not be up to mapping jump points but it could be a nice addition to round off the ship and having different types and sizes of role ships for manufacturers is pretty cool too. That said I'll look more closely once the Odyssey is actually in game.
Carrack and Odyssey slapfight until 600i rework hip checks them both.
Until CIG can start adding star systems fast enough that they can afford to add some secretly, I don't think long range exploration will really be viable.
So the ships will be judged more on their multiroll use. Modularity will be the Carrack's ace in the hole, mining and refining will be the Odyssey's IF they decide to give it more refining functionality. For the 600i, it will be soloability and tank hauling.
I own an odyssey and a 600i so i am awaiting the great origin hip check with baited breath!
i will explore the universe in a endeavour but own a carrack for the futurtre modulerity
I can't wait to see my Odyssey in The verse
Has it been confirmed that the Carrack is intended to be able to operate repair drones? I always thought it should, but I only remember "exploration drones" being mentioned
Yes confirmed it will have repair drones we just dont know what their complete functionality will be but watch my upcoming video about the vulcan to get an idea of how the drones might end up working.
@@billionaireninjas good, it just plain makes sense. Also reaffirms my feeling that the carrack will be a great lead ship for a repair/salvage org, depending on how much scanning gameplay will matter for finding distressed vessels and derelicts.
I love how the poor Aquila does not even enter this conversation... poor Connie Aquila.
It will be invited after the rework lol
I prefer arguing not that I need to when the Odyssey is better
Maaaaaan, we can't have some concept ship that we won't be able to see out of (MISC) trying to take anything from the, long established, best ship in the verse. That's just silly.
The whole point of the video is that we need BOTH to succeed. No carrack hate here lol
Devs did say that exploration will be performed through mfd and we'll be able to see and scan things that are far beyond our vision range. Plus many capital ships have second bridge deep inside the hull without any vision at all and Carrack should be able to fly with it's cockpit armor covering the view. So pilot visibility will not affect neither flying nor exploring. Mailslot is a MISC feature, it would look weird without it. Windows are important for touring ships that usually have large view angle for pilot and passangers.
As for Odyssey cons, I'd add cold and minimalistic interior with bare metal walls. Hull-C turned out ugly with copy-pasted assets from Starfarer. Carack is cosier and more suited for long expeditions or a role of a home base. Also I'm not sure how Odyssey is supposed to mine quantanium with a single laser. For Mole it usually takes one powerful laser to break the main rock and a weaker one for secondary chunks. If you try to break smaller ones with the main laser they instantly blow up.
To your first point. You are correct. However a mail slot could still be bigger an maintain the aesthetic or could have extra smaller window included with the mail slot. Also I argue viewing angle is just as important for explorers to see what they are exploring. We also don't know what MISC odyssey's interior will look like yet just a The ship is significantly more expensive than a Hull C and also has Xi'an tech that the Hull C does not have. Either way though that is a minor point of preference vs the utility I talked about in the video. If you like the look of the carrack interior better I wont try to convince you. As far as mining quantanium my guess is it will be a bespoke laser not just a random mining laser but we'll have to wait and see.
I have a feeling that either the Carrack or the Odyssey are going to get a rebalance sometime in the future. It just doesn't seem right that a ship larger than the Carrack only needs a minimum of 1 crew while the Carrack needs a minimum of 4. And as far as the ability to mine quantum fuel goes, I would bet my Carrack that there is going to eventually be modules that let you sacrifice cargo capacity for the ability to mine and refine materials.
You say it doesn't seem right I say it's balancing. Remember the Carrack has just about everything anyone could need in a ship it's a jack of all trades and still almost a master of one. The Odyssey is not a jack of all trades it's just an exploration ship. So what it can stay out longer, the carrack can go further before needing to stop. It has to have a high crew requirement to keep it from invalidating a bunch of other ships. That's the same reason that the Carrack won't get to mine and refine. I'm thinking those modular bays will be jump seats, Science, Research, medical beds, a brig, and maybe even a torpedo bay, but the one thing it won't get is the ability to mine and refine because the Odyssey exists. Just balancing.
@@billionaireninjas The crew numbers are based upon the number of active stations in combat that can't be controlled by one person. One pilot and three gunners for the Carrack. If the Odyssey has a minimum crew of one, that tells me that all of the turrets are remote turrets that can have AI blades slotted into. To me, the problem is the remote turrets. The carrack should really have two remote turrets instead of one. The turret at the bottom of the Carrack is too difficult to get to in a combat situation and wasn't very well thought out. If they were going to do anything to the Carrack it would be to make the bottom turret a remote like the top so that we can slot AI blades to control it.
And the Carrack will never invalidate other ships that are specialized in their task. It is very easy to balance the modular bays to make the Carrack slightly less capable than the specialized ships by making you have to sacrifice cargo capacity for them. If the Carrack wasn't able to dip a little bit into everything, it completely invalidates the design of the Carrack.
The Carrack's defense is inadequate, with only size 4 guns, making it vulnerable to attacks, especially from ships with size 5 guns that outrange it. Despite using it primarily as a mobile respawn point, I'm frequently targeted and destroyed (they think im hauling a ton of cargo), which defeats its purpose for me. Additionally, its hangar is quite restricted, and many of its systems aren't yet implemented in the game. These issues make it a clear target and highlight the need for a significant rework.
I think it's meant to run rather than fight! Thats why it's guns are weaker.
@@billionaireninjas Orion, Merchantman, Odysse, Perseous, Hull-d, Reclaimer, the list goes on of all the ships in its class, cost, and size all have size 5 guns, yet somehow the Carrack got the shaft. It's an old concept ship that needs to be updated.
Those shops dont have the modularity of this ship though, also the Reclaimer, Odyssey, Orion, Hull D are much large and much slower, all three are capital ships. If I'm not mistaken the merchantman is bigger as well now.
Actually I own a 600i explorer, I don’t think I have a leg in this debate, but my ship certainly wins best looks B)
Lol you should check out my fleet vid you might get a kick out of it.
I like exploration ships, a lot! I can see the Odyssey becoming my first MISC ship😊. Though I doubt true deep space exploration will be a thing, just base on current development
I try to limit my SC channel subs to about 3, but I think you definitely earned a sub and like! I'm sure this channel will grow fast!
Wow. I really appreciate that. Thank you for the support!
@@billionaireninjas. No problem! My main 2 SC sources are streamers, so I need a ship channel anyway😊
I have both. Carrack is useless besides medbed. I rather use my 890 for that. Cargo hold is useless now. Rather use my m2 for that.
I don't think Carrack and Odyssey are meant to compete against each other.
If you think about what exploration is in real world, there are many types of exploration like, finding systems/planets/life forms, etc. and then exploration like really going there (like on Mars or Moon) to find things like minerals, water, rare materials etc. (basically find samples, analyse ground). also, you could have the type of exploration that is a form of early colonization of newly discovered lands, etc.
I think Carrack and Odyssey have different roles and purposes.
the carrack is not the odyssey, because the carrack isn’t a capital ship. it’s a frigate, and it’s actually what the idris would have been if it didn’t get larger for the demands of sq42.
the odyssey is massive, and is def one of the closest things we’re ever going to get to the enterprise in star citizen. the carrack is more like the defiant, which, honestly, being a ds9 fan, i actually prefer.
The factor that impresses me most is the ability of people who play SC to be able to compare a ship that has already been launched and one that has not yet been launched.
It's like comparing an RTX 4090 with an RTX 5090. There's no way to compare because it wasn't launched even though the company says it will have x specifications
But yet... We still know the RTX 5090 will be better. How!? Because we can take a very well-educated guess. At the same time. It's just fun to speculate. Don't place any vegas bets on what a RUclipsr says!
@@billionaireninjas It's fun, even though I complain about it, I watch almost all ship comparison videos lol
Same!
I look at promised features as never coming to the game - once they are implemented, I then make decisions about how or what I want to get. Things like the drone bay for the Carrack seem really functional - but until I either see CIG putting a heavy amount of time into getting those live, or actually see in PTU - I'm going to assume that the Carrack will never have drones, despite there being "space" in the ship for it. As it looks right now - the Odyssey will have more to offer in PU once it releases than the Carrack will.
I understand that reasoning. Hey, thats what CCU's are for!
it'll be a hard choice for me, the carrack is great but it doesnt feel like a spaceship to me although right now it is my home ship. i got the carrack so i can use the pods for science and research on some planet i decide will be my game loop but since that seems to so far away from reality that the odyssey might be the better choice for my adventures and since cig already said they wont make ships fully realistic meaning we can take heavy ships to a planet surface and still be able to leave we kinda have no incentives to not go big
No reason to make any big decisions yet. Just buy a $25 ccu and then wait it out!
You can travel as far as you like by making your own fuel but you are still limited by food and water and equipment wear and tear
This is absolutely true.
But in a game like SC you don’t really need to “go as far as you can go indefinitely” the game is only going to have 5 systems, with all of them having infrastructure so you’ll always be able to refuel, not like ED where you can go to unpopulated areas of the galaxy and need to be self sufficient. Also once shards come into the game the carrack will be able to have automated turrets as well?
2 days ago the SC wiki states,,quote.......Locations in the Star Citizen universe are extremely diverse, ranging from lush Earth-like planets full of pristine wilderness to encumenopolises with every square inch of the planet covered in high tech supercity; from small seedy refueling space stations to a cobbled together pirate mega-station; from a bio-luminescent moon orbiting a rogue gas giant to the smashed corpse of a planet turned into an electrically charged asteroid formation full of industrial mining outposts and criminal hideouts alike. In total, there are 95 known star systems, consisting of 324 planets, 74 moons, 50 space stations and 76 asteroid formations, plus some even stranger sights.[
I read that the Carrack is based on the Serenity, so that makes me want one. I need NPC crews before I get one though.
'Hundreds of jump points' lol..... nuff said.
?
No Need, have a BMM.
Oooh I like this. I have one too. If that ship eliminates my need for the other. I might have to go and get me an Idris.
The distance argument always seems to miss a very important point. SC will never have an Elite Dangerous amount of solar systems. Even when exploring newly discovered systems, you'll never be more than a couple of jumps from a refueling station, let alone a friendly Starfarer to meet up with you. The true advantage of the Carrack will be finding jump points that other ships can't detect, not for finding new systems, but for finding shortcuts to existing systems. CIG simply won't be able to make systems fast enough for infrastructure to not catch up.
100 systems is still pretty big and never say never. Also every ship will be able to detect jump points the Carrack will just do it better. See the pinned comment.
yes
but carrack old
update might change
good good
thumbed up
Me. Preciate.
Here is the real debate, structural repairs when the odyssey comes out, and if fuel siphoning becomes a thing.
The carrack has better turret coverage, better drone versatility, potentially modular pods that can be detached for small ground claims. better size to find changing jump point zones. and the biggest key part is the armor and that the carrack doesnt have many structural parts to damage.
The odyssey is bigger, we can debate how well it can be defended. the guns are forward most it seems on a ship its size. It has all the systems to keep itself supplied long term except repair. even if it can fit a vulcan it wont be able to handle structural repair. Looking at many misc ships the engines are usually internal and not able to be destroyed but the odyssey has these bigger external engines. The mining ability and refining of the ship are good features but will take away power from the powerplant, and potentially leave you in a weakened state if attacked with whatever downsides refineries have in the future.
If the odyssey ends up having more structural parts even with capital class shields it can be crippled much easier, at a minimum if the mining tools are structural and they become damaged it may loose that fuction all together. The most common threat would be the potential of hazardous mining conditions in the future, the odyessey has basic mining tools and it will have to position itself in dangerous areas to get the fuel it wants. so say a rock explodes and damages your mining tool or engine you will need to repair. or if you are in harsh enviroments that you dont want your players being outside in the carrack will be better suited for it especially if the carracks repair room ends up being able to fix and upkeep suits and tools.
eventually even your everyday gear will break down. and the final point is depending on how exploration works which from what we have heard in the past is that long range scanners can pick up poi in space that are dynamic and spawn random things quantum travel might become less needed for explorer ships except for escaping danger or covering lost ground.
all in all The carrack isnt just an exploration ships it is a military HQ for small ground operations aswell. as its cargo pods standard will be more able to rapidly deploy ground squads for pvp and its turrets will have better coverage of the field. To replace the odyssey the carrack would probably team up with a starfarer at most. while the odyssey to replace the carrack would need a vulcan if not a crucible. and we will need to see its scanning abilities and navigation.
Wow this is in-depth I appreciate the effort you put into this. This is honestly why I started the channel. I think these are the conversations that need to be had regardless of whether we agree.
The Vulcan being able to fit in this thing drastically changes the debate in favor of the Odyssey because that is a medium repair ship not a small. It is also a DEDICATED repair ship meaning it can repair everything better than the small bays on the Carrack the same way the Carrack can chart jump points better than the odyssey.
You mentioned the powerplant being hampered by the mining, well it has a capital size powerplant to handle that. And if that's the argument, then the Carrack will suffer the same fate and be weaker when it charts jump points using all those radars and computers and cartography/map tables. But worse since it only has a large power plant. Which would take three to equal a capital. Not to mention all the repair drones and repair room you have to run on the same powerplant where my drones would be on the Vulcan's powerplant.
Capital shields definitely will have a hard time being damaged by mining rocks or else what's the point of them. That being said even if not, I'll bet the Vulcan can repair any damage the rocks can do easily.
What people forget about the Vulcan is it adds two beds to the Odyssey and it allows the Odyssey to refuel AND rearm a whole other ship. Meaning you can bring another ship with you outside of the Odyssey and Vulcan all the way up to a medium at least. Now I have yet to see anyone make the argument that the Carrack is better than an Odyssey plus two medium ships. Now imagine if I paired this with a Redeemer (all lasers). Which adds another 4 beds and all the weapons to protect the odyssey. Or better yet a Constellation Aquila to bring the jump point mapping capability up to the level of the Carracks plus add 4 beds, a snub fighter, an ursa rover, 2 size 6 turrets, and 96 SCU.
Lastly I agree with your final point the Carrack is a better PVP ship and it will be better at the multi role but I think you are heavily overestimating it's repairing ability. Also while a starfarer adds the ability to keep going to the Carrack it is literally the only ship you can pair it with to do so. Because the Odyssey doesn't need the refueling it can pair with tons of other ships like the ones I listed above.
Also let's not forget that I am in favor of both ships succeeding and being great.
@@billionaireninjas the odyssey power plant hinderance is with the refinery. refinery gameplay is suppost to take a lot of management and probably wont be safe to fullly stop doing it while active.
The benifit of 2 powerplants or shield gens is that can can be manually disengaged and swapped to rechharge them and negate emp weapons. you cannot interchange capital class power plants and parts.
The repair function of the carrack drone wise is a possibility not fully in stone but the repair room is likely able to fix gear or components. Im just saying depending on the structural parts of the odyssey, if it needs any structural repair for any major part it can be crippled. the carrack has a body , a nose, and 2 wings, non of which are vital to the ships real function, so even if you have to hand repair the carrack it will be fine.
partially why i look at other misc ships they tend to have internal engines but the ody looks very diifferent to them and if the mining tools are structural it has the ability to loose its major upside.
taking things like the starfarer it needed the gemini version to help give it more protection so in general i expect most misc ships to rely on shields. so balistic damage or any failure of shiellds in a fight could be major.
@@billionaireninjas video looks good mate and no worries. Just something only I seem to bring up for this game is structural repair, the crucible is the only ship we have heard iis suppost to have structural repair. So when you see videos talking about the best of a ship i dont think they take structural repair into account. Starting ship wise for example the fighters can loose wings and suffer in atmo, ships like the cutter can loose engines and become unusable, things like the aurua and the nomad have internall engines which may be able to repair with hand tools but we need to see first.
The Ody can refine AND refuel itself? I thought it couldn't
Yup it can mine and refine quantanium and refuel itself.
@@billionaireninjas ah ok. If it were out I'd melt my Carrack for it. It'd be more useful
Well do a bit of research first to see what fits your play style. The Carrack might end up fitting what you need more.
Melted the Odyssey. Finally started sinking in on how many years the Odyssey will be released and how many years before exploration is actually a thing that would benefit from a large ship like the Odyssey or Carrack. Years and years.
Secondly, the Odyssey isn't really better at exploration. It's main advantages are a large hangar and mining it's own fuel. But even in Pyro CIG has added way more refuel stations than originally anticipated, effectively rendering the Starfarer, Odyssey etc useless. If this continues for the rest of the systems, there won't be much of a point to using the Odyssey.
Thirdly, Carrack has better scanning, drones, modularity (which may allow it to do base building), and more guns. Odyssey just seems like a large cargo vessel that has a large hangar and can refuel itself. There's a lot more to exploration than simply being able to stay out indefinitely (which isn't even true since you will run out of supplies, unless crafting and finding food and water on planets becomes a thing, who knows).
All of this can be fun to theorize, but at the end of the day, CIG is unreliable, tardy and double backs on many of the things they say. So....personally, I stay away from most long-term concepted game loops and the ships associated with them.
Imo, you got it backwards:
Carrack is an extra-system explorer - jump points and the unknown beyond charted space. It has less shields and offense because it will often be outside of reasonable range of hostility.
Odyssey is an "industrial" explorer - poking around for resource discovery and POIs in a system. It has better defense/offense as it will more often be in hostile and contested space.
I don't quite understand this logic. If we have a space ship that has a huge fuel tank it can make it however far that fuel tank allows but it will ALWAYS NEED to return to a base at some point. So even if it can make it from Earth to Jupiter on it's tanks it still has to count on another fueler to refuel. Meanwhile a ship that can refuel itself might only make it from earth to mars before it has to refuel itself but it never has to stop moving forward to go backwards or depend on anyone, meaning it could make it from earth to pluto if it needed to, albeit slower than the ship with the huge fuel tank which would need a refueling point somewhere between earth and Jupiter to make it to Pluto.
The odyssey always spoke to me more.
Nope. Paul Jones is the only one that made that "claim", and then left shortly after. Also missiles are irrelevant, as a consumable you won't be mining those.
The Odyssey is a long range "prospecting" ship at best, the Carrack is Mary Sue by comparison, and by the way I have both. 😏
I know! the Carrack Killer thing is mostly a joke though to be honest. I thought that would be more clear but I'm not the best at sarcasm. Also you are absolutely right you can't mine missiles. That doesn't make them irrelevant, It just mean you need to save them for a rainy day. Maybe the rainiest day. I'm not seeing where people get the prospecting thing from but we'll see. I'll probably end up with both but I have to see if I can afford an Idris first lol
Other than looks I have no idea how the Carrack could be better.
Also, I'm really losing hope exploration is actually a thing in this game, the ship seems to be sinking and I expect them to finally accepting limitaitons soon, and WHY would you need such humongous ships to just move a bit, use a few gates to travel to the very few ACTUAL systems with any hand made content and then go back to sell some stuff in a capital planet.
i own a betty and ill own this when it ever comes out lol .. give me ALLL da ships .. xD
I’ma just going to own both
I mean if you can afford it. Absolutely. I'll probably do the same and buy the Odyssey and just earn the Carrack in-game
@@billionaireninjas hopefully we get modularity this year so I can use the carrack for more than a mobile respawn.
Carrack - exists
Odyssey - does not exist
Easy peasy
Exists is a strong word to use here. I have a JPEG that suggests it exists. If that is not enough... I fly it in my dreams... If that is not enough it exists in my heart!
Not surprising. CIG always did shit on the Carrack.
I got a Carrack and love it,
But fuck it i'll buy a odyssey aswell.. why not i just won't tell the mrs lmao 😂
Ooohh i see you like to live dangerously lol
@billionaireninjas you have no idea, the only thing scarier then a vandaal is my Mrs when she is pissed off lol 😆 😂
I doubt the odyssey is gonna get the star map. This cartography map is gonna probably make the carrack better for exploration and discovering etc. But odyssey gonna be better to stay away on itself. So it's a different type of exploration.
1min in "the odyssey is the carrack killer"
Your wrong
7mins in and your still wrong:
you seemed to give all the reasons why the carrack just is better for exploration.
Finished your video, and you're wrong:
Carrack is a superior exploration ship and is better designed to be one.
Secondly, the Odyssey is a better extreme range transport ship. In fact, that is all I'd want it for, and it seems to be built for that. This is why i don't mind the mail slot window. Ship fleets would be capable of extreme ranges and can solve all the crew needs and ship needs. But to get cargo way way way out in deep space would also require the whole fleet to fly home. Or an extreme range ship built for large cargo transport/ personnel transport that is self-sufficient. This is where the odyssey is the only available option outside of small fleet movements.
Ah context is key here. I said "as far as exploration the Odyssey is the Carrack killer" lol I just don't think saying that means what everyone else thinks. They have different roles. The Carrack is to find data and bring it back the odyssey is literally just to explore...and then keep exploring. You don't ever have to come back if you prep well enough and find a way to replenish your stores. I guess we have different ideas about what exploration is supposed to be. I think more Star Trek 5 year mission rather than deep space cargo ship.
One is not out.. and the other is not even fully complete.. we don't know what they will change or add until they complete the carrack so well see when they are both gold complete 🤷
Yeah we have to see. What modularity brings and what they finalize on the Odyssey. However like I said. I need them both to succeed.
Carrack is easy win for me military , repair bots, cargo modules can be refinery can be growing food and its not a misc ship :)
Lmao I do prefer the anvil Aesthetic to MISC generally but I'll hold judgement until I see the Odyssey in-game. Also did you know the Odyssey could fit a Vulcan in it's Hangar? Repair bots? No problem.
We will see how it turns out but id go with a military ship any day ;)
I think you're mistaken if you think you'll be able to fully solo the Odyssey
It all depends on what you mean by "able" and "solo". if able means doing so and having the ship use at least 50% of it capability. then I will be able to solo it, that being said, I never will. I'll always bring a friend or npc. Unless you count bringing an NPC as solo.
You lost me at 57 seconds in. Long live the Carrack!
That's ok lmao as long as you know I ALSO want the Carrack to live long... And prosper!
The Carrack exists. The Odyssey doesn't, and probably won't for years. We have zero idea what the Odyssey will be, and I doubt CIG has more than a vague idea, too.
Attempting to compare them is comparing reality with fantasy. Fantasy will always win.
We can HOPE the Odyssey will be X or Y or Z. Hope it will be cool and fun and useful. But that is yet to be determined.
So the Carrack wins by default. Despite the broken and missing state many of its systems are in. The cargo bay might never get fixed. Drones might never get implemented. Cartography might never happen. And still it would win because you can fly it around in the game, whereas the Odyssey you can only fly in your imagination.
I'd say that since Exploration gameplay also isnt in the game it's fair grounds to compare them based on that. But you're right it's all speculation... Isn't it fun though!
I might be wrong but I recall reading in the specs of the carrack that it had some sort of special Ion engine giving it almost infinite range.
The engine would just control efficiency, power, and speed not range. It has two large tanks for both fuel and Quantum that determine how far it can go.
You are right, I went to the site and it had been a long time, it's all changed. I wish I had a screenshot of this "ion engine" quote a saw. if I can spot enemy ship from far away with my carrack I'm sill usefull to my team, until they change it :) cool video @@billionaireninjas
I'll make sure to charge you more when I have to come refuel you with the starfarer lol (its broken in the game right now, why no one uses it, you can only request docking once, it won't prompt you after the 1 time) - and every station has fuel, wont be the circumstance in the future
Lmao who me? I have a vulcan, a crucible, an odyssey, and a starfarer. No charges for me 🤣
If youtube allow me, I'll like and comment each of your videos (6/130)
i still love my galaxy :)
As you should!
@@billionaireninjas I’m hyped for the Polaris to drop just so more work can be done to get the Galaxy to gold standard. Now that they introduced the building module I’m sure I will buy it upon completion. Have a good day :)