They are completely different ships. Different Missions. Different Scope. They just both are spelled with Ps and go pew pew. Like comparing a M1 Abrams to a Bradley IFV. An apple to an orange.
Well this video was 3 years early, you can't do math on shields and armor that have no metrics ingame yet... not even talkin about the other mistakes like missing an entire twin 7 turret on the pers ^^
Exactly like comparing Star Citizen to the COMPLETELY different type of game, Starfield, because they both have "star" in the name. It is how SC community mentality operates lol
I don't get why people are comparing the two ships in the first place. One is a subcapital gun corvette and the other is a capital-class torpedo frigate. The ships do entirely different things, at different sizes and crew requirements. It's not even comparing an Abrams to a Bradley, it's comparing a submarine to a self-propelled artillery piece. ...or a Battleship if you wanna stick to naval terms.
At this point in development we might as well read tea leaves. CIG has said a lot, and changed their minds even more often. E.g. who knows how master modes will affect Capital ships coming from quantum? Best strategy: Get a Perseus. Get a CCU to Polaris. Wait until both ships are in game. Wait one more year (minimum) for nerfs and balancing. (at least my plan). Yet sometimes it is nice to read what people think could be in the future, so keep going.
I am indeed reading tea leaves lol Its fun though! I agree with your statement though about getting a CCU. I am more sure than most though so I just went with the Polaris. I need more amenities than the Perseus offers but it's still a great ship.
I do plan on getting a Perseus. Not meant for killing capital ships but sub cap ships. Reason I would go for the Perseus gives a nice nostalgic feeling for old WW2 battleships. Don't forget that the Perseus will also be able to change it's ammo on the fly.
It's gonna be a fleets best friend when you want to drop in on an org and hit hard. It's not meant to fight a fair fight, it seems like it's meant to make a moderate advantage teeter into unfair.
there is 2 small issues with the shield/armor statement : CIG said the heavy armored ship will ignore small cannons damages and ballistic amo can go trough shields with a small malus
Agreed. Remember in the video I gave the Perseus an Inconceivable amount of Armor just to make the debate seem legit. In reality the Armor on the Persues will likely be between 250 and 450k, nowhere near the 728 that I gave it.
@@billionaireninjas Not to mention that the Polaris will almost certainly have more armour hp than what you calculated for it (which you mentioned you intentionally kept low to help the Perseus a little with the math).
Also remember capital shield regeneration start timer is longer than large shields, also then double the regeneration rate as two shield will double that rate. So even though the shield hp on capital is high, but if under constant fire will never regenerate, and slowly disappear. So even with lower shield hp, the Perseus will start shield repair faster and regen cycles are shorter, then uts backed up with its armour. Weapon was the 4x S7 ballistic cannons will be an threat, while the S10 torpedoes are deadly you can only launch 4 maximum at a time, and we have no idea what the reload times will be for the next volley. So Polaris will have a huge alpha strike if it has the surprise and the target hasn't yet got its PDS up an running, which has an high chance of killing these torpedoes before they hit. So back to combat the S7 will do less damage per hit, but can't be intercepted and destroyed, and will have an estimated rof similar to the ION of 60rps per cannon, that's 240 size ballistic rounds on target in one minute, add to that the Perseus cannons is said to use customizable rounds that can be changed round by round, so it could fire plasma shells to quickly kill shields and then switch to HEAP, HESH, AP, or other hull damaging round to tear through hulls once shields are down, also remember these are guns so each turret will under the new gun mechanism focus fire on certain weak points of a ship, where missiles and torpedoes can't. So yes the Polaris has nice features, but it's not a good combat ship in one on one.
@Heshinsi Polaris has light armour and designed to relieve on its shields more than hull. Hull HP has no effect on armour, but armour quality and level has huge effects on hp. Think Terrapin, an xs size craft, it's current hp is somewhere between the starfarer and 890j, this is to account for the effects of its heavy high grade military armour, similar to what the Perseus is said to have if not better. Remember lore stated the Perseus is from the age where shields were only available to larger capital ships and as such being an Frontline combat ship needed armour to tank enemy weapon fire, without shields, the current version is the same ship with updated components and hardware, with the addition of shields to the existing tankiness it already had from armour.
Projectile weapons and shields as i remember shields are only slightly effective against projectile weapons. So polaris shields against large projectile weapons might be problematic to even predict.
Perseus is a pocket battleship. use it as such & you will have a load of fun tearing up shipping lanes. As far as taking on Cap ships I think you may have to Wolfpack the cap ships with multiple Perseus ships. Now as far as Perseus getting swarmed by fighters, I hear this all the time & I will ask you this How do you get all these fighters to where ever the Perseus is? Keep in mind that Stanton is going to be the Smallest System in the game & most fighters have to put a Non Military (Slow) drive to make it across the system as is. On top of that Perseus with all that armor will nullify smaller weapon fire. CIG & John Crewe have made statements on this very thing it will not just be an extended hit pool. if your gun is not big enough to pen the armor its like it never happened. Now up to what size gun idk.
This is a great point! Armor does indeed need a certain size gun to penetrate we just don't know what size yet. Shields however make up for that by regenerating so if you have a good enough pilot you could potentially fight much longer. Not to mention ballistics eat through everything regardless of size. As for how the fighters will get to a Perseus. It would most likely be when you come up on a larger target with fleet support light fighters or a kraken which is a nightmare scenario for a Perseus.
@@billionaireninjas agreed, If someone did want to chase down a Perseus they will have to tie up a ton of resources & manpower to do so just to get 1 ship with 6 dudes on it.
The Polaris is just more versatile. While it will require more crew to be at maximum effectiveness in combat, it could most likely serve as a mobile base for a more flexible amount of crew. It is pretty much confirmed that some sort of automation for turrets will be on the way. So if we expect you could get like an AI blade to control the turrets as a defensive screen when under attack, you might only need like 3 people to use the ship as an effective base. One pilot, 1-2 mechanics/engineers. One guy could even fly a fighter from the hangar. Like if you want to do some variety of FPS and space mercenary/bounty work, why would you need more than 3 people to take the Polaris? It pretty much just needs a pilot and a mechanic to go from A to B. Bonus points if the guns can be automated to defend the ship, and if you got a 3rd guy who can fly a fighter to further defend the ship if under attack. Otherwise, it has armory space for different guns and armor. It can supply food and drink. Supposedly it is fuel efficient, and can travel vast distances. It has good sensor capabilities. It has a lot of space for loot, or even some opportunistic high value cargo tasks. It has a medical bay for said FPS combat. It has huge torpedoes for taking out large ships, or possibly attacking ground targets. But if your group of friends can sometimes get 6+ people online, the Polaris can definitely have roles and jobs for more people. And you could expand your mission capability based on the crew available.
They get compared because they use the same airframe. LITERALLY. RSI took the Polaris, removed all its support functions, and loaded it up with the means to fight on equal standing with a ship it's size. The Perseus is a Ship of the Line. It's meant to act as a Frontline Wall and augment the firepower of capital ship fleets like the Idris, Javelin, and Bengal. It is constantly escorting them and never separates from the fleet. It is for people who want to be part of their fleet as a full time fleet operator. A Perseus is when you WANT SOMETHING DEAD and your Javelin lead orders a coordinated simultaneous strike on a target. The Polaris was designed as a detachable Patrol Corvette. They come and go from their battlegroups or base of origin to expand the military capabilities for those groups and are expected to handle trouble that requires a serious response, but a Captial ship response is not feasible. It is expected to solo those instances. The Polaris is for solo operators who would rather range out then be stuck babysitting the fleet's Bengal Flagship. It's basically the Ship of the Line vs the Patrol Corvette. The former is the fleet's guard dogs. The latter is more likely to be the flagship for a local milita or scout for said battlegroup.
@@billionaireninjas They're both corvettes. That's the other reason they get compared. A better comparison would be the Polaris vs the Carrack. Both are Patrol/Expeditionary vessels with large cargo bays and long jump ranges. Both have hangars with which they can carry a patrol fighter. Both are expected to range out and operate solo in the Deep Black. You could even fit the 890J into this category. A similar better comparison for the Perseus would be the Hammerhead and/or the Redeemer. They are ships of the line who purpose is to escort larger vessels and screen them against smaller threats while the actual Capitals slug it out against each other. It's not a completely fair comparison since you're comparing a Corvette against a Gunship in terms of weight class and the Polaris and Perseus outweigh their competition but at least you'd be comparing them to the same role. Comparing the Polaris and the Perseus is basically comparing the C2, M2, and A2. It's the same airframe adapted to completely different specialties. In the case of the Herc you have jumbo pure cargo against a frontline military transport against a MOAB bomber. Same airframe and weight class, wildly different jobs.
@@billionaireninjasnah he's fucking smack dead on the point with massive signs like above a18. Graveyard you are incredible brother. Polaris will very much so excel in her class of exploration & patrol/solo operations. largest difference will be SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive to operate.
I originally wanted Polaris because of design and hanger bay, but feel the Perseus is more soloable than the Polaris. But their sizes are like saying I want the 890 as my capital ship and the 600 or 400i as my daily driver.
Wouldn't the Polaris be the more soloable ship since you have the hangar that can hold an assortment of ships and a med bay to revive in for you to do other activities? Neither ship is going to be effective in their actual roles with a single pilot. However, if you just want to explore and do other game loops and have mobile base of operations, I would imagine a hangar, and a med bay, plus a sizable cargo hold, can make the Polaris a far more enjoyable ship for a single person to just tackle multiple game loops.
@@Heshinsi that is true on those points. If you were just using it to ship shipping ships and what not, but just questions why not use the other ships? All comes down to personal preference and style, but what is also available for the pilot to use in the case of defense?
@@caseygalerneau4448 I don't mean using the Polaris as a ship platform to move small ships around. I meant if I had a Polaris and Perseus and wanted to fly one around for whatever reason, loading the Polaris with say a Vulture (which apparently it might be able to fit), plus the decent cargo bay, means I've got a fun little salvage operation I can solo for a bit (having a cargo elevator in the hangar means I can offload salvage boxes from the Vulture to the Polaris every time I fill it up). Say I decide after awhile that I want to tackle some of the upcoming distribution centre bunkers. I can land my Polaris a safe distance away, then use a loaded ground vehicle to travel to the base, do my mission and go back. In case I die I respawn in the Polaris not far away, hop into one of the other ground vehicles I loaded up, and then continue raiding the bunker. It feels like a Polaris gives you more game loops to tackle as a solo player than a Perseus which can only really do the bunker stuff I mentioned except without the ability to respawn in it if you die. Neither ships give the pilot anything they can do directly for defence alone by themselves if I'm not mistake. However, having fighter in the hangar means you can at least try fighting back or bug out and quantum away if the fight turns. In a Perseus all you can do is run which is an option also available to the Polaris player too.
To be fair the Perseus will more than likely be better in defense for tanking damage, and evading fire considering its maneuverability. Where the Polaris will be better is the shear devastation when fully crewed. I see both ships working side by side. The Polaris would come in and take out any Capital size threats and then the Perseus would come in and take any sub capital ships while a hammerhead takes care of swarms of fighters. I see these ships filling a role in a squadron instead of having a single group on one ship.
I really appreciate your efforts to keep things grounded . By highlighting design documents this will be a timeless vid. Just check okay how light military armor comparing to the density of heavy armor , when we can shrug off those under size 4 shots. One little thing is Perseus is one of the largest militant in atmosphere ship; vtol huge amount of hydrogen, smallish, Polaris will probably handle worse in atmo, more like a plane less like a space ship (or more?.)
I'm still waiting to confirm how armor works because CIG has let out conflicting statements about armor... First they said ignore shots...but then during maelstrom they said the whole system changed... So until they figure out the mess I'm going with what we know so far. But I'll definitely update this when they announce more.
I have a feeling that the Orion wilk has some decent guns on it and will only need one of these for help. I think the two size 5's might become two size 6's because that ship has grown!
The thing is, as I see in the comments already in a few places, armor will completely mitigate smaller caliber weapons. On top of that, there won't be "Hull HP." With physicalized damage and armor, you won't be able to just shoot the same spot on a ship and blow it up. You will need to penetrate through armor and hull to hit vital components or kill crew. Think War Thunder. That makes all the math in the video meaningless beyond a couple of years out. Given that the large projectile weapons on Perseus will penetrate shields and light armor, given the right targeting a Perseus could probably kill a Polaris relatively quickly. Of course the large torps on the Polaris will wreck a Perseus. So it depends on who gets on target first. Also given the fact that we just saw ranged weapons get a massive range increase, it's possible the ships will be able to hit each other hard at similar ranges. Large torpedoes at long range will make for big targets. Overall, the Polaris is definitely more offensively minded and will kill most things smaller than a Destroyer. A Perseus will be a tank that ignores most fighters and can probably fight longer. You're right that they shouldn't be compared; it's really just that they cost a similar amount IRL that creates the dichotomy.
I grabbed both. Chained the Perseus up from an STV, and the Polaris up from a Spartan. In effect, I paid full price for the Polaris, and the Perseus was a freebie. The number of warbond upgrades on ships under $150, this year, has been pretty small. I like to think my $230 BMM is to blame; it will be named Warbond.
@@tcbarcangel4871 Turrets are a joke, they have no power in this fighter meta where they can disengage whenever they want. Turrets need to have faster projectile speed and maybe double the range. The hammerhead has no power in a real fight. You can see fights in pvp but that just for fun. But when it matters in your wallet. People will play it different.
Anyone who says the Perseus simply doesn't know ship to ship combat...... The Polaris by rule AND function should eat the Perseus for breakfast almost every time. It's speed, range and weapon load out will put warheads on the Perseus before it can even respond.. Don't get me wrong, the Perseus is one tough battleship for sure. But torpedoes are simply it's kryptonite.. And the Polaris comes with bucket loads... That said, if you're trying to decide between which one to get, the Perseus can be at full operation under a skeleton crew in comparison to the Polaris. I'd say about 4 men can get the Perseus up and running at 100% The Polaris on the other hand demands at least double that. Also, torpedoes aren't cheap lol... So this ship will usually spend money, not earn money unless you have some nice contracts. Something to consider when shopping.
Agreed. Also fuel and repairs on a Polaris are going to be big bucks. Torpedos will be big bucks. Crew cost will be big bucks unless you have 20 friends who want to do it for free. The Perseus can have laser weapons so it can do damage for free. It’s going to be cheaper to repair in components and weapons. Cheaper to refuel. And most people have 4 friends who want to hit some bounties for free
I think you're right about cost considerations. However look at how we currently play the game. You go and do a few vhrts and erts and bring back some weevil eggs... Cost considerations then matter substantially less. It may not be that easy in the future but I doubt it will be so much harder that you'll have to do three times as much to make the same money.
@billionaireninjas it's a bad idea to judge what we're getting now and anticipate it for later. That said, drugs and such won't be going anywhere in the grand scheme of things. I think they'll taper it back or drop the price but it'll always be around. Even so, the Polaris hand over fist will be more costly to operate, repair and re-arm. I think at the end of the day, it all depends on if you'll have a crew or not. But the Perseus will be much easier to get it done than the Polaris. I look at that ship like I do any other capital ship. It's big and expensive to operate lol.
And in the future i expect to be able to sell coordinates more easily. So the Perseus could sell weevil egg loot coordinates instead of looting them themself, thus somewhat compensaring the small cargohold.
@@jugganaut33sorry those S7 cannon turrets are bespoke, only the CDSW s3 Gatling guns can be changed. But running costs will hurt the Polaris hugely and I don't think many have though about this. Just look at the cost of the s5 and s9 torpedoes current at discounted alpha prices, and think of what each s10 will cost to replace. Add to that the quantum and hydrogen fuel costs, and these are all before thinking about noc crew and player hire costs. The running costs I'd estimate would be enough to pay for the running costs of 3-4 Perseus. Other key thing is everyone goes on about the 24 s10 torpedoes, big deal, you can only launch 4 at a time and I'm sure you will find the reload time isn't in the 5-second, or even possibly 10-second range, so you'll need to have the element of surprise to get effectiveness from your alpha strike as after that the target will have full defence up and be engaging with the goal of being out of the launchers forward arc of fire, limiting the Polaris to its s5 gun turrets and missiles. I wish player stopped looking at big numbers and looked at tge finer details of what is possible.
One thing to think about it the damage mitigation on the armor and the shield penetration chance on the shields. Also what happens to Hull HP onces armor/pen is in, think I heard its going to go but not 100%.
Yes! whenever people talk about this. I just recall the word balance. Hull HP has a chance of complete damage mitigation the same way Shield HP has a chance of negating penetration. So even if armor ends up requiring a larger size round or missile to break it. The same would be able to be said about the type of weapon required to penetrate larger shields efficiently.
They seem to compliment each other well. A Polaris can handle fighters with its many turrets and capital ships with its torpedoes. The Perseus can deal with ships that fall in between - think large subcapital ships that aren't worth a s10 torpedo, but also inefficient to chip away at with s3/4 weapons. A great duo to run in tandem.
Totally agree with your points of comparison. But I think the main issue to contend with is role. Perseus and Hammerhead work as a pair to support a fleet. Perseus helps kill big boats. Hammerhead helps kill small boats and screens against torpedoes. They pad fleets, and cover each others weak points. It's funny that they are different manufacturers. They are easy to field with low crew requirement and have little to no bonus utility, cos they have defined roles. The Polaris isn't designed for fleets, it's designed for patrols, it works well in a fleet, but it's given utility to move ahead on its own or in small packs. There's a reason it has a capital size radar, auxiliary main thrusters and only light capital armor. It's not a brawler, it's an ambusher. Strike first, run away, report to the main fleet. It would likely carry a Terrapin or Mantis, to hunt, or to interdict the enemy.
Looks as though it’s a min crew of four for the Perseus. The smaller turrets function as point defense autonomously according to brochure. Should be an interesting ship when it’s out.
Is a good thing that you address the weirdness of comparing these two ships, but I don't think that the Polaris is the "next step above" the Perseus. Like saying the Retaliator is the next step above the Ares fighters, similar roles but not the same. Personally I think of the Perseus as a torpedo boat destroyer like the HMS Havock (Royal Navy, 1893); whose creation stemmed from a specific need: countering the threat that torpedo boats posed for battleships like the Ironclads. And I think of the Polaris as the Osa missile boats or Sovremenny destroyers, intended to yeet a bunch of big missiles to another ship and then leave (well, the Sovremenny had other roles but i hope you get my meaning) liked and subscribed.
Not gonna lie, I love these videos. So many people look at anything with such a binary view and refuse to acknowledge the nuance in a lot of this stuff
I went for the mobile base aspect. I like both ships. Eventually will have both. Mainly purchase the Perseus in game, when it is available to do so. For now, I do have a Polaris. Ready for it to be here. Have a regular small group, and I plan to maybe start an Org... Regardless, we look forward to using it for some interesting game play.
Both ships are made to work together in a mission.... Polaris comes in and kills the bulk..while Perseus comes after (slower?) and defends against the remains..while Polaris takes off to safety....then Perseus dies right before it manages to jump out while the crew also contemplating why they didnt just take another Polaris to finish everything in one swoop 😅
I think the Polaris goes in guns blazing shooting everything it has which should be enough to kill just about anything. Perseus has clean-up duty while the Polaris retreats. Or the Perseus shows up and distracts while the Polaris sneaks up and unloads from the other side.
I agree. Curious how the auto anti torpedo weapons will work and how many torps they will shoot down. Polaris I’ve seen speculated as a torpedo defense drainer until eventually some get through when there are multiple large missiles going out (Javeline/polaris/second Polaris,etc) Perseus will be more area denial defense that blasts anything that comes into Jumptown or space jump town, or contested giga mining space rock, or base defense, etc.
Yeah right, the retaliator has 20 km tarps that you have to fire at 4K…. Also, point defense is going to murk those torpedoes. You can’t do defense against the laser cannons. Also, the Pius is going to be an amazing rammer has much thicker armor if you look at the interior models… but even so you need at least 8 to 10 crewmates versus two crewmates.
If polaris would be OP then everyone Will be flying just that ship and The game would be extremly boring. It Will have its weaknesses. Example: i dont think People understand how slow those S10 torps Will be. Its not going to be a 1v1 ship.
Great multipurpose comparison, good job setting bar at 6 crew. Generally you make some very good points. Going back to each ships combat focus. Perseus may get the upper hand with Max Crew if Polaris first strike Torp Attack misses or is evaded by Perseus as it closes range. If Polaris can launch its fighter(s), it’s the most likely winner in nearly all 1v1 Perseus Polaris match ups.
I agree, different ships. There is a “but” no one mentions ever. Range. If the Perseus guns have an 8km range, or more, that may make a big difference when it fights any larger ships. As well, if you set 6 as a crew number, and are OK running positions short on a Polaris, I’m gonna want 3 crew on a Perseus and 2 Perseus for 6 crew.
Yeah, range is a consideration but those size ten torps will outrange or match pretty much anything on the Polaris. Plus being able to pick up ships further away with better computers/scanner and radars.
Just as a thought…. We don’t know yet how effective point defence is gonna be. With torpedoes that large and slow, they may be easy to shoot down by auto defences.
They are two different ships for two different purposes. One is a long range attack and go capital killer. The other is a Patrol mid size ship killer. The Polaris should be paired with an Idris, while the Perseus should be paired with a Hammerhead. They are two complete different ships with different goals
I look at it like this: The perseus should not be used as more than it is. It's a an escort or patrolling vessel. It is a ship that is best utilized when paired with a fighter detail or pair of hammerhead corvettes. It will probably find use in pirate organizations to disable cargo ships via targeting the thrusters, but otherwise may struggle to even stay in the fight against ships like the idris or polaris without support. On it's own it's less than ideal for engaging anything bigger than a hammerhead and I believe that it may struggle against an hh in a 1v1 with a more skilled and practiced crew in the hh. The armor may potentially give it damage mitigation in the future but as it stands, I think it will hold a similar status to the hh where it's usefulness means you rarely see them in active use unless npc crews/ai blades come online soon-ish
I definitely think it is pdd that these ships are compared so often. They have very different roles. The Perseus is meant to handle the larger sub capital ships and keep them off the capital ships as well as remove their fighter protection like Hammerheads. Then if needed it can assist against capital class threats, but not as well as something like the Polaris. The Polaris is supposed to come in and threaten the Capital ships with those torpedoes. So fleet wise you would want at least a Hammerhead and a Perseus to accompany your Idris or Polaris. They keep everything sub capital off you and remove things like a Hammerhead that can try to shoot down the torps, while the Polaris handles the enemy capital ships.
You have a super flexible investment. The Percy is a navy-style long range deep space patrol boat. It was originally designed to be a fleet fire support frigate to protect the flanks of larger ships such as the Javelin and take on sub-capital and larger ships. She can also be a pocket explorer with the capability of carrying some cargo or an Ursa rover. In the lore, the mere presence of one or more Perseus ships in a sector would scare off the UEE's enemies or make them super cautious about attacking.
@@billionaireninjas Well knowone knows yet what game we will end up with, everything is brought on ''trust, hope, faith, belief'', because that's all you have with Star Citizen, CIG make no promises, hell...concepts from 10 yrs ago still haven't been built?. ps: just look at the spanner in the works PYRO is causing for some backers, they probably will NEVER venture into PYRO . That's why i treat what's on offer as an indulgence and not a religious experience. Enjoy
I get the point you're trying to make because they're both great ships in their own right as you said. I don't think it's as cut and dry as you're making it out on some points tho, Costs to run a Polaris will be a lot higher, but the trade off it can semi function on its own and it could even be a command ship as you said. The Perseus can be a center piece of a smaller fleet, helping to deter larger targets whilst fighters keep the Perseus from getting swarmed. I honestly think a Polaris, Hammerhead and Perseus combo is where it's at in terms of usefulness and diversity because of the sheer amount of coverage they can provide in terms of damage and across how many targets they can be useful!
I've been pouring over the Polaris preview and I've determined at least most of the new armaments for the Polaris. The Main turret under the nose has at minimum S6 guns. It could be S7 but it's hard to determine the exact size due to the S6 & S7 Behring energy cannons having the same model. Additionally, the top turrets are now S5. They have the S5 M7A cannons on them. The side turrets have quad Attritions of at least S4. Could be S5 but they're hard to make out and the models between Attrition sizes are the same. Then there's the rear Missile turret, which could have S2 or S3 missiles. And then lastly the Bottom turret is a Quad Attrition turret in at least S3.
Those numbers tossed around mean very little. Shield is penetrated significantly by projectile weapons. And armor is said to bock just about everything that is not strong enough to punch through it. The hull HP as such is not that relevant. What does matter is how well both shield and armor can protect critical areas and in this regard armor will beat shield. Shield really need to block more damage in order to be dominant and we already know they won't.
I'll revisit this when armor is in-game. But as for now the HP totals heavily favor the Polaris. That being said the Polaris will have armor as well just not as heavy as the Perseus. Like I said we shouldn't even be comparing these ships.
I think it is important to remember that quite a few ships have gotten larger over the course of their development. I am expecting that this will be the case with the Perseus and it may also see different improvements or amenities be included. If the 600i is going to be able to carry a Nova and get a med bed (yes I know different ship role) and the Retaliator getting its rework/gold pass, I expect similar changes in the development in the Perseus will happen.
I currently own the Polaris and have a CCU to upgrade to the Perseus from a Carrack. However, if I am not satisfied with the Perseus, I will consider upgrading it to the Nautilus.
I myself don't understand the comparison between Polaris and Perseus. Not only is the Polaris double the Price, the Polaris also is a sister ship to the Hammerhead.
been out the game for a while but ill pick up the debate a little i suppose. Armor which hasnt been in the game has been said to have weak points such as escape pods ect. ships with more open spaces and not as thick walls will probably have a lot less armor. the hammerhead for example even if it is armored has hallways going through every inch of it and doors to the outside and i think escape pods but i cant recall. ships like the pers, valkyrie, ect they have heavier armor and a lot of unused space on the inside which makes their walls thicker. in the valkyries case it has that double bulkhead to protect its drop troops. when it comes to the shields a capital sized shield is better against 1 or 2 large shields but ... all capital parts are harder to replace and will surely be out in the field longer. The large shields are able to be swapped, and having 2 large shields means you can have 1 up and one out while you replace it. so even if a capital sized shield is 10x a large shield a large ship can carry extra shield gens to help make up for it and it will be easier to find spare parts compared to a capital ship. This isnt even talking about durability, which a capital ships at 100% might win but eventually it will be at 70% or 50% and a large ship can still be replacing its parts regularly picking up spare large shield gens. then capital sized ships verses large ships is already a stretch because its likely they might not even be in the same areas. a large ship can go through smaller jumps and will also be easier to use around planet surfaces. Then you got the overkill of using a capital ship killer like the polaris verses a sub cap killer the perseus. you might be able to win a fight against a pers, but if you dont you will loose a whole lot more. that pers has no parts you can use on your capital ship, no medical bays, no internal ships, probably not even ammo you can use for anything and might be nimble enough to avoid or destroy your massive torpedoes. the pers doesnt have to win only cripple your ship and you have to head back for repairs. the polaris tho will have to win the fight for it to matter if the pers gets away it will probably be fine with anything besides a giant hole in its side. the main thing i think about with thick armor is hull breaches and if your shield is down or in nav mode. that armor buys you time. Imagine a polaris trying to nav jump out of a fight and getting smacked in the side from a pers. thats a lot of damage. the polaris probably isnt taking a pers down while it jumps unless one of those torpedo connect.
Yeah I was wondering about that. I wasnt really sure but now that you mentioned it I think it was this channel where I already saw comparisons between the Perseus and Polaris. So why are you comparing them? I dont see anyone else do that. The ships are supposed to be quite different in their combat roles.
? I only have like 30 videos. Type polaris vs perseus into youtube you'll see like 20 videos. Go to reddit there are dozens of threads. Same with Spectrum.
@@billionaireninjas Ah my bad. I recently had another Perseus vs Polaris video recommended but that wasnt you. I was just thinking like who is comparing these 2. Anyway it would actually be nice if there were more combat ships in the Polaris range size wise.
@Billionaire Ninjas - You are wrong. The Polaris has dual size 6 weapons. Said so on the north star episode. Also the Perseus has twin mounted size 7 weapons. WHich means a broad side attack to a sub or capitol class ship will make smaller cap ships take evasive action. Your confusing stats with the purpose of the ships. The Perseus is designed to slug it out and soak up damage because it is too slow hence the extra armor.
You keep talking about Hull HP... Which is a current placeholder until Maelstrom arrives. It's not a long stretch to think the new damage systems will be in before the Perseus will be in game. Maybe not make it for Polaris...
Kind of like comparing the retaliator and the Redeemer. I think I like a gunship better, but torpedoes are fun too. I would say that the Polaris would not be good for defense because you can only shoot so many missiles at a time. If you have light fighters coming in, you can only engage one of them with your smaller size missiles by the time they all get under the range of all your missiles.
There is no debate, for the same crew as a Polaris you can have 4 or 5 Perseus. 5 Perseus beat a Polaris, EZPZ. They reduce crew requirements? Both are still affected by reduced requirements and 4 or 5 Perseus still win.
I mean I can do that math with any ship. 6 Ares beat a Perseus so Ares will win in a ship battle. We're talking one ship vs one ship in this video. Not fighting each other in combat but which is the "better" ship.
@@billionaireninjas I know the video was setting crew aside but that is still my primary concern, getting 20 people together to actually fly the friggen thing all at the same time when a lot of people can only manage to play for an hour or two at most is like wrangling cats. If we set that aside, the question for me for any ship becomes the amount of fun each crew member is having. The Perseus has some big ol guns for people to shoot and the smaller turrets will likely be able to be automated. The smaller amount of big guns are going to be more fun for the gunners than a crapton of small guns spread around the Polaris. It is easier to keep those fewer gunners entertained during non combat time as well. How much fun is it really gong to be to have 15-20 people just standing around not doing anything most of the time? The Polaris, or anything with more than 10 crew, is probably going to need an org backing it with dedicated time slotting to be anywhere near effective and it is going to need heavy combat for it to be fun for most of the crew. That means risking the shiny asset that costs a lot to fix, which many Polaris owners probably won't actually want to do. The perseus on the other hand is much smaller, and the armor is a huge selling point of being able to get into comparitively more danger and survive. In summary, the Polaris will be a cat wrangling sim for the owner, and likely unfun for the crew most of the time.
I think the fun is in how you use it. Mix in a few AI Blades and NPC's for the more mundane tasks and then humans for the rest. You have a captain and a few first officers running a bunch of red shirts. It depends on what kind of gameplay you want. Some folks will never buy anything larger than a vanguard because they only care about medium and heavy fighters. Others want to live their captain dreams. I have been in an 890 jump with 14 other people and we had a blast. A reclaimer and we had a blas and an A2 and we had a blast. I totally understand people not wanting to do that much cat wrangling though lol
It is a placeholder but not irrelevant those numbers are calculated by CIG they aren't random. That is a common misconception. That being said I was just working with the information available. Educated guesses have to be based on available information. Armor on ships will still have a breaking point similar to the hull hp numbers
@@billionaireninjas ships will be "destroyed" by neutralizing components. Small ships this may include severing areas of the ship containing them by that won't be common for large ships. You'd be better off looking at how concentrated these components would be.
I hope they rethink the cargo area of the Perseus. The top half where the walkway is located is absolutely useless. They could add a med bay there or sth
So many problems with this right now. Talking about ships that are not finished (or even started yet) when armour doesn't even exist and we don't know how it will work yet. And cargo... They already said that is getting nerfed.
This has to be my favorite video on the subject. I think the comparison is pretty fair to be honest. Alot of folks are looking at the two and thinking to themselves, what ship is for me. It gets interesting when you want the big mean scary ship that strikes fear when it joins the battle field. To alot of us we think the Perseus is that ship, and would be by a good margin. It has ONE job (so to speak). However, when you sit back and think about it and work the numbers, you start to wonder, is it really the big scary? I'd like to see the Perseus easily be the clear winner in sheer combat for its class. Heck, I love to see a new game play strategy (im thinking warhammer style ramming). Again, when you start to think about it and work some of the numbers out the Polairs seems, dare I say, scarier? Im still on the edge of my seat to choose. I was on team Perseus as a pure combat bad ass that, like I said, would strike fear when it rolls in for a fight. Now im not sure sure. The Polaris is really starting to change my mind.... Thanks again for the great discussion Ninja's!
So the reason I think the perseus wins the 'survivability' prize isn't in the number of hull hit points. But in the way armor is supposed to work. If both ships were in game, I wouldn't switch to this metric, but since they aren't in the game yet, off we go! So from what's been written so far, hull points is a place holder. Component destruction will be the way to go. And once armor is in, it will protect the components by literally blocking damage. If you have light armor, you need at least a size 3 weapon to hope to deal damage. Medium armor will need a size 4+. And heavy armor will negate attacks from anything below a size 5 weapon. So in context, most fighters can deal damage to a Polaris, but you would have to have a glaive, an ares, or torps to deal *any* damage to the Perseus. So if the armor makes it into the game, and works as intended, AND we switch to the component damage system... then the Perseus will be a tougher nut to crack. If not... well I still like the perseus because big guns go BANG.
You may be right! Just remember that the Gimbal limitation will be removed so a lot of light fighters will have access to size 3 guns. Also how do you think cap shields will do against the same targets?
@@billionaireninjas Cap shield should be fine against all the attackers, but I think the issue is that the Perseus might be able to straight up ignore size 3 weapons. So in a big furball, the perseus can throw it's full shields forward and rampage ahead confident that the fighters on it's heels can't actually do anything to it. The Polaris on the other hand will need to keep the shields more evenly spread out to prevent those same fighters from attacking it's rear or flanks, because those attacks could actually cause damage to important or critical components. Basically, a perseus doesn't even need it's shields to ignore a hammerhead all day long. But a Polaris needs it shields to keep a single light fighter from eventually chewing it's ass off.
I'm thinking the sheer time to kill and regen will be the biggest things working for the polaris. Yes you can eat at the shields but they will regen A LOT when you miss and even if you don't combat doesn't happen in a vacuum right? The Polaris will be shooting back and it has a lot more to shoot back with. All the Polaris has to do is get the Hammerhead off target long enough to regen a bit and then it has to fight back for all the ground it lost. Not to mention its running from torps. It will be fun!
i may or may not have both, me like making stuff go boom! also ik it can be used for other size ships but that literally sounds like the Polaris was made to kill the idris "turrets and missiles for light fighters, torps for cap ships" lol
I can see these two ships working together in large orgs. Even with a hammer head as fighter deter to top off. But on a head to head engagement between these two ships, Polaris wins hands down. With a ship fighter to go with that can basically act as a scout. Plus to top off the fact that the Polaris can out range it with the torps. Which remind you, can, so far, take out an idris with a successful four hits on the same shield face. If a Perseus can get within bawler range to a Polaris, something has gone terribly wrong or the Polaris crew/captain is over confident. Overall, these two ships are different mission purposes and armaments. But these two compliment these two really well if you look at them closely
@@billionaireninjas ay.. That's what I meant.. Point being the size of ship though... 👌 The persius out ranges eveything whilst being a small target is the point.. 😉
Just one remark. You said the Polaris is a sub-capital ship. But its not. It's a capital ship. Even CIG labels it like that, even the game implementation has it at capital class. Polaris is a capital ship. Perseus is just a "Large" ship.
Ballistica can go through shields, with the new targeting system and engineering, 1 burst to the si gle power plant or cooler of the Polaris and is dead in the water, plus the Perseus couls bounce a lot more fire power from bigger calibers, but i still like the polaris more, got both, but man, my beautiful Polaris is queen in my heart ❤️
The Nautilus is more of a frigate and those so-called mines are closer in function to depth charges. In practice, the Nautilus will be deployed as a frigate due to her capabilities. The Perseus is just a gunship and better compared with the Hammerhead; although these ships are still geared towards different purposes. The Polaris is billed as a corvette but this remains to be seen. She could, potentially, deploy as a light destroyer if the armaments are sufficient and the player is rocking with extra crew. Something people forget is the enormous difference made by damage control department and the fact that a ship's "toughness" scales drastically with the size and effectiveness of her engineering and damage control departments. There's going to be a lot of "how you play it" to this and, if it's done right, the limitations of ships will place higher crew demands on them for combat-readiness.
Excellent points. I will say that the Nautilus mines are a bit more effective than depth charges because they fly towards a target before the fire rounds or before they detonate. Also, they have a much longer life in space than a depth charge has in the water.
+1 @@billionaireninjas Yeah, there's definitely some overlap with self-guided torpedoes and mines, not just the whole depth charge thing. I suspect, however, these things will make them even better at being the space equivalent of depth charges and I expect they'll see a lot of use to flush out stealthed ships - if we ever see the stealth mechanic implemented on the same footing as dogfighting.
Until the ships are both out AND the armor rework is finished I'll continue to doubt that the perseus LARGE sized military heavy armor is stronger than the polaris CAPITAL sized military light armor. At best they can be seen as equal. And yes, comparing these two is not very productive. One is the smallest available ship that can operate as a full fleet supporting core. The other one is the biggest, fattest large ship bully without any supporting abilities. What the perseus will surely excell at is running defense for ground operations to keep pesky A1 bombers at bay. Other ships have problems with killing them before they can deploy their bomb. Perseus will have the dps to strike trough.
i disagree with the shield debate entirely since both ships ignore shields since one is ballistic and the other is torpedo. the only time shields matter is for laser and disruption weapons
I hear you. A few points. Not all the weapons are ballistic on the Perseus. Ballistics are slower moving than lasers. You still have to get in range to use those ballistic weapons and the Polaris has the Perseus outranged easily. Any ship can get ballistic weapons unless they have a bespoke loadout. The Polaris can get ballistic weapons as well. Lastly, Shields still are not in their final state and neither is armor so we'll have to wait and see... I think we'll find out this year!
I like them both... BUT, if I were to use cars to compare these... I'd say the Polaris is an 18 wheeler, and the Perseus is a fork lift... the both do the same thing, move objects around.. Except, clearly the Polaris and 18 wheeler can do many many MANY more things than the Perseus/ fork lift. . See what I mean
The reason people compare the two is that they are both RSI Military ships priced in the $700's. It's natural to want to do a side by side. As far as shields and hull hp/armor, CIG has said that this will all change. They will rebalance and rework everything on every ship, especially when maelstrom comes into play. So, in all fairness, this entire discussion on shields and hull hp is a moot point.
I'm not certain it's a moot point because I dont think they pulled their hull HP values out of thin air. They may not be fully representative but they still matter for now until CIG proves otherwise by realising more details about Armor
I am going to assume that the Perseus is going to be the ship with the single best armor short of only maybe a Javelin. According to the lore, the Perseus is going to be the oldest ship we will have access to, coming from a time when shields werent a thing and ships had to compensate through ludicrously thick armor. You calling the Polaris a subcapital corvette is also inaccurate. It started off as one, but has since grown to over 150m of projected length. *Well* into capital ship territory. Its grown from a corvette to a frigate. But you only mentioning half of the Perseus' guns as well as the Polaris' old size tells me you haven't done too much research into both ships. Edit: I should mention that, while the Perseus we will be getting isnt the original 400 year old design, but a modernized refit with shields, it is still going to retain its colossal armor and relatively poor speed and agility.
It may be a capital after the rework but it's still listed as a corvette and I go by what CIG says first rather than reddit. If the CIG website says corvette how am I inaccurate? That would mean CIG is inaccurate. They have been before, but thats a CIG problem not a me problem. HALF the Perseus guns? Which ones did I miss? You're telling me it has double what I mentioned? I said 20 size 5 missiles (meaning torps... Same thing) I said 2 size 7 weapons, 2 size 3 ballistic gatlings what does it look like I missed? Ok so according to you... Who've done your research right?... The Perseus has 40 torps, 4 size 7 weapons, and 4 size three gatlings. Send me a link when you find proof of that....
@@billionaireninjas CIGs ship matrix is notoriously outdated and neglected. They could probably task an intern with keeping everything up to date as things change during development, such as the Polaris' size, but they're either not willing to do it, or can put the manpower to use better elsewhere. It is a bit of a mess to keep track of the latest statements through developer commentary, ISC's and SCL's. And yes, you did miss half of the Perseus' guns. Emphasis on *guns*. I didn't say anything about it's torpedo complement. The Perseus comes with four Size-7 guns in two main turrets with two guns each. One turret atop the armored prow in front of the bridge, the other one half-retractable on the belly of the ship. Additionally, it has two missile defense turrets with two Size-3 guns each, also totaling four S3 weapons. One turret behind the bridge, one on the underside between the engines.
Ah this is a this is my rifle this is my gun. I said 2 weapons as in two separate weapons you took that as only two guns. I go by mounts available not guns per mount because that can change depending on how its outfitted. If this was a ship review I would went into detail about that but I did the persues justice by explaining that any ship below cap ship is going to have a hard time with it. Mind you I own a Perseus.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Speculating about 2 nonexistent ships. This is a perfect example of star citizen lol. I bought both.
It's what we do! lol
Right, I have the Polaris but really want to add the Perseus to my fleet.
as did i.
LOL your observation is on target. Yeah I bought both of them too :)
Guilty as charged
They are completely different ships. Different Missions. Different Scope. They just both are spelled with Ps and go pew pew. Like comparing a M1 Abrams to a Bradley IFV. An apple to an orange.
Well this video was 3 years early, you can't do math on shields and armor that have no metrics ingame yet... not even talkin about the other mistakes like missing an entire twin 7 turret on the pers ^^
well said
Exactly like comparing Star Citizen to the COMPLETELY different type of game, Starfield, because they both have "star" in the name. It is how SC community mentality operates lol
I don't get why people are comparing the two ships in the first place. One is a subcapital gun corvette and the other is a capital-class torpedo frigate.
The ships do entirely different things, at different sizes and crew requirements. It's not even comparing an Abrams to a Bradley, it's comparing a submarine to a self-propelled artillery piece.
...or a Battleship if you wanna stick to naval terms.
@@BlackThanator apart from the gun ship is the frigate and the missile boat is the corvette
At this point in development we might as well read tea leaves. CIG has said a lot, and changed their minds even more often. E.g. who knows how master modes will affect Capital ships coming from quantum? Best strategy: Get a Perseus. Get a CCU to Polaris. Wait until both ships are in game. Wait one more year (minimum) for nerfs and balancing. (at least my plan).
Yet sometimes it is nice to read what people think could be in the future, so keep going.
I am indeed reading tea leaves lol Its fun though! I agree with your statement though about getting a CCU. I am more sure than most though so I just went with the Polaris. I need more amenities than the Perseus offers but it's still a great ship.
I do plan on getting a Perseus. Not meant for killing capital ships but sub cap ships. Reason I would go for the Perseus gives a nice nostalgic feeling for old WW2 battleships. Don't forget that the Perseus will also be able to change it's ammo on the fly.
Its def gonna be worth it for taking out C2s, Carracks and Hammerheads.
I have to agree! I love the look of the large offence turrets. But i do hope i get the crew for a javelin one day. Perseus we can already handle
for those xeno events it would be really good.
It's gonna be a fleets best friend when you want to drop in on an org and hit hard. It's not meant to fight a fair fight, it seems like it's meant to make a moderate advantage teeter into unfair.
i think a perseus will be the perfect fleet support vessel, it can damage both lighter ships and capital class, very versatile in what it can do
there is 2 small issues with the shield/armor statement : CIG said the heavy armored ship will ignore small cannons damages and ballistic amo can go trough shields with a small malus
Agreed. Remember in the video I gave the Perseus an Inconceivable amount of Armor just to make the debate seem legit. In reality the Armor on the Persues will likely be between 250 and 450k, nowhere near the 728 that I gave it.
@@billionaireninjas Not to mention that the Polaris will almost certainly have more armour hp than what you calculated for it (which you mentioned you intentionally kept low to help the Perseus a little with the math).
Also remember capital shield regeneration start timer is longer than large shields, also then double the regeneration rate as two shield will double that rate.
So even though the shield hp on capital is high, but if under constant fire will never regenerate, and slowly disappear.
So even with lower shield hp, the Perseus will start shield repair faster and regen cycles are shorter, then uts backed up with its armour.
Weapon was the 4x S7 ballistic cannons will be an threat, while the S10 torpedoes are deadly you can only launch 4 maximum at a time, and we have no idea what the reload times will be for the next volley. So Polaris will have a huge alpha strike if it has the surprise and the target hasn't yet got its PDS up an running, which has an high chance of killing these torpedoes before they hit.
So back to combat the S7 will do less damage per hit, but can't be intercepted and destroyed, and will have an estimated rof similar to the ION of 60rps per cannon, that's 240 size ballistic rounds on target in one minute, add to that the Perseus cannons is said to use customizable rounds that can be changed round by round, so it could fire plasma shells to quickly kill shields and then switch to HEAP, HESH, AP, or other hull damaging round to tear through hulls once shields are down, also remember these are guns so each turret will under the new gun mechanism focus fire on certain weak points of a ship, where missiles and torpedoes can't.
So yes the Polaris has nice features, but it's not a good combat ship in one on one.
@Heshinsi Polaris has light armour and designed to relieve on its shields more than hull.
Hull HP has no effect on armour, but armour quality and level has huge effects on hp.
Think Terrapin, an xs size craft, it's current hp is somewhere between the starfarer and 890j, this is to account for the effects of its heavy high grade military armour, similar to what the Perseus is said to have if not better.
Remember lore stated the Perseus is from the age where shields were only available to larger capital ships and as such being an Frontline combat ship needed armour to tank enemy weapon fire, without shields, the current version is the same ship with updated components and hardware, with the addition of shields to the existing tankiness it already had from armour.
Perseus looks cooler, debate settled, you're welcome
Projectile weapons and shields as i remember shields are only slightly effective against projectile weapons. So polaris shields against large projectile weapons might be problematic to even predict.
Perseus is a pocket battleship. use it as such & you will have a load of fun tearing up shipping lanes. As far as taking on Cap ships I think you may have to Wolfpack the cap ships with multiple Perseus ships. Now as far as Perseus getting swarmed by fighters, I hear this all the time & I will ask you this How do you get all these fighters to where ever the Perseus is? Keep in mind that Stanton is going to be the Smallest System in the game & most fighters have to put a Non Military (Slow) drive to make it across the system as is. On top of that Perseus with all that armor will nullify smaller weapon fire. CIG & John Crewe have made statements on this very thing it will not just be an extended hit pool. if your gun is not big enough to pen the armor its like it never happened. Now up to what size gun idk.
This is a great point! Armor does indeed need a certain size gun to penetrate we just don't know what size yet. Shields however make up for that by regenerating so if you have a good enough pilot you could potentially fight much longer. Not to mention ballistics eat through everything regardless of size. As for how the fighters will get to a Perseus. It would most likely be when you come up on a larger target with fleet support light fighters or a kraken which is a nightmare scenario for a Perseus.
@@billionaireninjas agreed, If someone did want to chase down a Perseus they will have to tie up a ton of resources & manpower to do so just to get 1 ship with 6 dudes on it.
This all changes when you run Perseus with Retaliators ... Then Caps/fighters beware
Idk, I like to think of the Perseus as a souped up redeemer and the Polaris as a super beefy retaliator. Thoughts?
I really like that. I think both are on the upgrade paths to get here.
Makes sense to me, with the beefy retaliator made multi-role. Hangar brings some semblance of modularity to the Polaris :)
The Polaris is just more versatile. While it will require more crew to be at maximum effectiveness in combat, it could most likely serve as a mobile base for a more flexible amount of crew. It is pretty much confirmed that some sort of automation for turrets will be on the way.
So if we expect you could get like an AI blade to control the turrets as a defensive screen when under attack, you might only need like 3 people to use the ship as an effective base. One pilot, 1-2 mechanics/engineers. One guy could even fly a fighter from the hangar.
Like if you want to do some variety of FPS and space mercenary/bounty work, why would you need more than 3 people to take the Polaris? It pretty much just needs a pilot and a mechanic to go from A to B. Bonus points if the guns can be automated to defend the ship, and if you got a 3rd guy who can fly a fighter to further defend the ship if under attack.
Otherwise, it has armory space for different guns and armor. It can supply food and drink. Supposedly it is fuel efficient, and can travel vast distances. It has good sensor capabilities. It has a lot of space for loot, or even some opportunistic high value cargo tasks. It has a medical bay for said FPS combat. It has huge torpedoes for taking out large ships, or possibly attacking ground targets.
But if your group of friends can sometimes get 6+ people online, the Polaris can definitely have roles and jobs for more people. And you could expand your mission capability based on the crew available.
They get compared because they use the same airframe. LITERALLY.
RSI took the Polaris, removed all its support functions, and loaded it up with the means to fight on equal standing with a ship it's size.
The Perseus is a Ship of the Line. It's meant to act as a Frontline Wall and augment the firepower of capital ship fleets like the Idris, Javelin, and Bengal. It is constantly escorting them and never separates from the fleet. It is for people who want to be part of their fleet as a full time fleet operator. A Perseus is when you WANT SOMETHING DEAD and your Javelin lead orders a coordinated simultaneous strike on a target.
The Polaris was designed as a detachable Patrol Corvette. They come and go from their battlegroups or base of origin to expand the military capabilities for those groups and are expected to handle trouble that requires a serious response, but a Captial ship response is not feasible. It is expected to solo those instances. The Polaris is for solo operators who would rather range out then be stuck babysitting the fleet's Bengal Flagship.
It's basically the Ship of the Line vs the Patrol Corvette. The former is the fleet's guard dogs. The latter is more likely to be the flagship for a local milita or scout for said battlegroup.
In this case we should compare ship of the line to another ship of the line and corvette to another Corvette right?
@@billionaireninjas They're both corvettes. That's the other reason they get compared.
A better comparison would be the Polaris vs the Carrack. Both are Patrol/Expeditionary vessels with large cargo bays and long jump ranges. Both have hangars with which they can carry a patrol fighter. Both are expected to range out and operate solo in the Deep Black. You could even fit the 890J into this category.
A similar better comparison for the Perseus would be the Hammerhead and/or the Redeemer. They are ships of the line who purpose is to escort larger vessels and screen them against smaller threats while the actual Capitals slug it out against each other.
It's not a completely fair comparison since you're comparing a Corvette against a Gunship in terms of weight class and the Polaris and Perseus outweigh their competition but at least you'd be comparing them to the same role.
Comparing the Polaris and the Perseus is basically comparing the C2, M2, and A2. It's the same airframe adapted to completely different specialties. In the case of the Herc you have jumbo pure cargo against a frontline military transport against a MOAB bomber. Same airframe and weight class, wildly different jobs.
Hmm. You may be on to something here.
@@billionaireninjasnah he's fucking smack dead on the point with massive signs like above a18.
Graveyard you are incredible brother. Polaris will very much so excel in her class of exploration & patrol/solo operations. largest difference will be SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive to operate.
CIG has already said backers will be able to solo large ships with blades and npc crew so I wouldnt worry about it
I dont recall them saying backers. Just that players can. So like, everyone
I originally wanted Polaris because of design and hanger bay, but feel the Perseus is more soloable than the Polaris. But their sizes are like saying I want the 890 as my capital ship and the 600 or 400i as my daily driver.
So that being said. I most likely will try for the Perseus first and then add the Polaris later.
Wouldn't the Polaris be the more soloable ship since you have the hangar that can hold an assortment of ships and a med bay to revive in for you to do other activities? Neither ship is going to be effective in their actual roles with a single pilot. However, if you just want to explore and do other game loops and have mobile base of operations, I would imagine a hangar, and a med bay, plus a sizable cargo hold, can make the Polaris a far more enjoyable ship for a single person to just tackle multiple game loops.
@@Heshinsi that is true on those points. If you were just using it to ship shipping ships and what not, but just questions why not use the other ships? All comes down to personal preference and style, but what is also available for the pilot to use in the case of defense?
@@caseygalerneau4448 I don't mean using the Polaris as a ship platform to move small ships around. I meant if I had a Polaris and Perseus and wanted to fly one around for whatever reason, loading the Polaris with say a Vulture (which apparently it might be able to fit), plus the decent cargo bay, means I've got a fun little salvage operation I can solo for a bit (having a cargo elevator in the hangar means I can offload salvage boxes from the Vulture to the Polaris every time I fill it up). Say I decide after awhile that I want to tackle some of the upcoming distribution centre bunkers. I can land my Polaris a safe distance away, then use a loaded ground vehicle to travel to the base, do my mission and go back. In case I die I respawn in the Polaris not far away, hop into one of the other ground vehicles I loaded up, and then continue raiding the bunker. It feels like a Polaris gives you more game loops to tackle as a solo player than a Perseus which can only really do the bunker stuff I mentioned except without the ability to respawn in it if you die.
Neither ships give the pilot anything they can do directly for defence alone by themselves if I'm not mistake. However, having fighter in the hangar means you can at least try fighting back or bug out and quantum away if the fight turns. In a Perseus all you can do is run which is an option also available to the Polaris player too.
Imagine loading down a ship this size with cargo, small ships, and collected items just for it to explode because of a bug
To be fair the Perseus will more than likely be better in defense for tanking damage, and evading fire considering its maneuverability. Where the Polaris will be better is the shear devastation when fully crewed. I see both ships working side by side. The Polaris would come in and take out any Capital size threats and then the Perseus would come in and take any sub capital ships while a hammerhead takes care of swarms of fighters. I see these ships filling a role in a squadron instead of having a single group on one ship.
I like the one shaped like a wedge of cheese.
Cheese ship is best ship.
Just get both and hope for the best
Hahahah ok Mr. Moneybags! I respect the willingness to spend the money!
you and I would get along very well both are in my hanger
OK CiG LOLOLOL
Hey I'm cool with anyone funding the best game ev...the best MMO ever made.
I said the same thing and do have both myself lol
I really appreciate your efforts to keep things grounded . By highlighting design documents this will be a timeless vid. Just check okay how light military armor comparing to the density of heavy armor , when we can shrug off those under size 4 shots. One little thing is Perseus is one of the largest militant in atmosphere ship; vtol huge amount of hydrogen, smallish, Polaris will probably handle worse in atmo, more like a plane less like a space ship (or more?.)
I'm still waiting to confirm how armor works because CIG has let out conflicting statements about armor... First they said ignore shots...but then during maelstrom they said the whole system changed... So until they figure out the mess I'm going with what we know so far. But I'll definitely update this when they announce more.
Both of thoses ship look amazing
The correct decision is to get both to protect your blinged out Orion.
I have a feeling that the Orion wilk has some decent guns on it and will only need one of these for help. I think the two size 5's might become two size 6's because that ship has grown!
The thing is, as I see in the comments already in a few places, armor will completely mitigate smaller caliber weapons. On top of that, there won't be "Hull HP." With physicalized damage and armor, you won't be able to just shoot the same spot on a ship and blow it up. You will need to penetrate through armor and hull to hit vital components or kill crew. Think War Thunder. That makes all the math in the video meaningless beyond a couple of years out. Given that the large projectile weapons on Perseus will penetrate shields and light armor, given the right targeting a Perseus could probably kill a Polaris relatively quickly. Of course the large torps on the Polaris will wreck a Perseus. So it depends on who gets on target first. Also given the fact that we just saw ranged weapons get a massive range increase, it's possible the ships will be able to hit each other hard at similar ranges. Large torpedoes at long range will make for big targets.
Overall, the Polaris is definitely more offensively minded and will kill most things smaller than a Destroyer. A Perseus will be a tank that ignores most fighters and can probably fight longer.
You're right that they shouldn't be compared; it's really just that they cost a similar amount IRL that creates the dichotomy.
well put
I grabbed both. Chained the Perseus up from an STV, and the Polaris up from a Spartan. In effect, I paid full price for the Polaris, and the Perseus was a freebie.
The number of warbond upgrades on ships under $150, this year, has been pretty small. I like to think my $230 BMM is to blame; it will be named Warbond.
Love that name lol
Getting a merchantman for a massive discount? The BANU would be proud
How things have changed.. I think the Perseus will have quad size 7 turrets now.
and polaris cargo doubled
I hope @@only4real
I don't see quad s7 but I can definitely see it getting the s7 with the on top s4 ballistic like In the recent sq42 prolog
@@tcbarcangel4871 Turrets are a joke, they have no power in this fighter meta where they can disengage whenever they want. Turrets need to have faster projectile speed and maybe double the range. The hammerhead has no power in a real fight.
You can see fights in pvp but that just for fun. But when it matters in your wallet. People will play it different.
Anyone who says the Perseus simply doesn't know ship to ship combat...... The Polaris by rule AND function should eat the Perseus for breakfast almost every time. It's speed, range and weapon load out will put warheads on the Perseus before it can even respond.. Don't get me wrong, the Perseus is one tough battleship for sure. But torpedoes are simply it's kryptonite.. And the Polaris comes with bucket loads...
That said, if you're trying to decide between which one to get, the Perseus can be at full operation under a skeleton crew in comparison to the Polaris. I'd say about 4 men can get the Perseus up and running at 100%
The Polaris on the other hand demands at least double that. Also, torpedoes aren't cheap lol... So this ship will usually spend money, not earn money unless you have some nice contracts. Something to consider when shopping.
Agreed. Also fuel and repairs on a Polaris are going to be big bucks.
Torpedos will be big bucks.
Crew cost will be big bucks unless you have 20 friends who want to do it for free.
The Perseus can have laser weapons so it can do damage for free. It’s going to be cheaper to repair in components and weapons.
Cheaper to refuel. And most people have 4 friends who want to hit some bounties for free
I think you're right about cost considerations. However look at how we currently play the game. You go and do a few vhrts and erts and bring back some weevil eggs... Cost considerations then matter substantially less. It may not be that easy in the future but I doubt it will be so much harder that you'll have to do three times as much to make the same money.
@billionaireninjas it's a bad idea to judge what we're getting now and anticipate it for later. That said, drugs and such won't be going anywhere in the grand scheme of things. I think they'll taper it back or drop the price but it'll always be around. Even so, the Polaris hand over fist will be more costly to operate, repair and re-arm. I think at the end of the day, it all depends on if you'll have a crew or not. But the Perseus will be much easier to get it done than the Polaris. I look at that ship like I do any other capital ship. It's big and expensive to operate lol.
And in the future i expect to be able to sell coordinates more easily. So the Perseus could sell weevil egg loot coordinates instead of looting them themself, thus somewhat compensaring the small cargohold.
@@jugganaut33sorry those S7 cannon turrets are bespoke, only the CDSW s3 Gatling guns can be changed.
But running costs will hurt the Polaris hugely and I don't think many have though about this.
Just look at the cost of the s5 and s9 torpedoes current at discounted alpha prices, and think of what each s10 will cost to replace. Add to that the quantum and hydrogen fuel costs, and these are all before thinking about noc crew and player hire costs.
The running costs I'd estimate would be enough to pay for the running costs of 3-4 Perseus.
Other key thing is everyone goes on about the 24 s10 torpedoes, big deal, you can only launch 4 at a time and I'm sure you will find the reload time isn't in the 5-second, or even possibly 10-second range, so you'll need to have the element of surprise to get effectiveness from your alpha strike as after that the target will have full defence up and be engaging with the goal of being out of the launchers forward arc of fire, limiting the Polaris to its s5 gun turrets and missiles.
I wish player stopped looking at big numbers and looked at tge finer details of what is possible.
Agree with all of this .. I have Polaris and Idris on order, that's it for me and large military ships.
I own both. So, I am good either way!
One thing to think about it the damage mitigation on the armor and the shield penetration chance on the shields. Also what happens to Hull HP onces armor/pen is in, think I heard its going to go but not 100%.
Yes! whenever people talk about this. I just recall the word balance. Hull HP has a chance of complete damage mitigation the same way Shield HP has a chance of negating penetration. So even if armor ends up requiring a larger size round or missile to break it. The same would be able to be said about the type of weapon required to penetrate larger shields efficiently.
They seem to compliment each other well. A Polaris can handle fighters with its many turrets and capital ships with its torpedoes. The Perseus can deal with ships that fall in between - think large subcapital ships that aren't worth a s10 torpedo, but also inefficient to chip away at with s3/4 weapons. A great duo to run in tandem.
I love the way you broke things down by "stages" outstanding !!
Totally agree with your points of comparison. But I think the main issue to contend with is role.
Perseus and Hammerhead work as a pair to support a fleet.
Perseus helps kill big boats. Hammerhead helps kill small boats and screens against torpedoes.
They pad fleets, and cover each others weak points. It's funny that they are different manufacturers.
They are easy to field with low crew requirement and have little to no bonus utility, cos they have defined roles.
The Polaris isn't designed for fleets, it's designed for patrols, it works well in a fleet, but it's given utility to move ahead on its own or in small packs.
There's a reason it has a capital size radar, auxiliary main thrusters and only light capital armor.
It's not a brawler, it's an ambusher. Strike first, run away, report to the main fleet.
It would likely carry a Terrapin or Mantis, to hunt, or to interdict the enemy.
Do they already have the greyboxing done for the polaris?
Yes!
@@billionaireninjas damn, it may very well see release in july then.
Looks as though it’s a min crew of four for the Perseus. The smaller turrets function as point defense autonomously according to brochure. Should be an interesting ship when it’s out.
Is a good thing that you address the weirdness of comparing these two ships, but I don't think that the Polaris is the "next step above" the Perseus. Like saying the Retaliator is the next step above the Ares fighters, similar roles but not the same.
Personally I think of the Perseus as a torpedo boat destroyer like the HMS Havock (Royal Navy, 1893); whose creation stemmed from a specific need: countering the threat that torpedo boats posed for battleships like the Ironclads.
And I think of the Polaris as the Osa missile boats or Sovremenny destroyers, intended to yeet a bunch of big missiles to another ship and then leave (well, the Sovremenny had other roles but i hope you get my meaning)
liked and subscribed.
I can see a med bed going into the Perseus. and the perues also has 20 size 5 torpedos not missiles. i perfer the smaller bulldog of a ship.
Yup I misspoke there. Thanks Good Catch! Also I own a Perseus!
Thanks for the Summary. (From a Polaris owner.)
Not gonna lie, I love these videos.
So many people look at anything with such a binary view and refuse to acknowledge the nuance in a lot of this stuff
I went for the mobile base aspect. I like both ships. Eventually will have both. Mainly purchase the Perseus in game, when it is available to do so. For now, I do have a Polaris. Ready for it to be here. Have a regular small group, and I plan to maybe start an Org... Regardless, we look forward to using it for some interesting game play.
Totally agree!
Both ships are made to work together in a mission.... Polaris comes in and kills the bulk..while Perseus comes after (slower?) and defends against the remains..while Polaris takes off to safety....then Perseus dies right before it manages to jump out while the crew also contemplating why they didnt just take another Polaris to finish everything in one swoop 😅
I think the Polaris goes in guns blazing shooting everything it has which should be enough to kill just about anything. Perseus has clean-up duty while the Polaris retreats. Or the Perseus shows up and distracts while the Polaris sneaks up and unloads from the other side.
Bwhahah I love this comment
I know I'm a little late but the Q&A for the persues states it has weaker armor than the polaris. The polaris has light capital armor not light armor.
Thats awesome didn't catch that!
Perseus: effective range 5k vs. Polaris effective range 50k.
I agree. Curious how the auto anti torpedo weapons will work and how many torps they will shoot down. Polaris I’ve seen speculated as a torpedo defense drainer until eventually some get through when there are multiple large missiles going out (Javeline/polaris/second Polaris,etc)
Perseus will be more area denial defense that blasts anything that comes into Jumptown or space jump town, or contested giga mining space rock, or base defense, etc.
Yeah right, the retaliator has 20 km tarps that you have to fire at 4K…. Also, point defense is going to murk those torpedoes. You can’t do defense against the laser cannons. Also, the Pius is going to be an amazing rammer has much thicker armor if you look at the interior models… but even so you need at least 8 to 10 crewmates versus two crewmates.
I love how you prepared for this video. You honestly layed it out so nicely. I think the polaris is unkillable. Im interested how this will go.
If polaris would be OP then everyone Will be flying just that ship and The game would be extremly boring.
It Will have its weaknesses.
Example: i dont think People understand how slow those S10 torps Will be. Its not going to be a 1v1 ship.
Great multipurpose comparison, good job setting bar at 6 crew.
Generally you make some very good points. Going back to each ships combat focus. Perseus may get the upper hand with Max Crew if Polaris first strike Torp Attack misses or is evaded by Perseus as it closes range. If Polaris can launch its fighter(s), it’s the most likely winner in nearly all 1v1 Perseus Polaris match ups.
Polaris (with scorpius) Perseus and med galaxy are going to be a mean little rsi strike group when used together.
I agree, different ships. There is a “but” no one mentions ever. Range. If the Perseus guns have an 8km range, or more, that may make a big difference when it fights any larger ships.
As well, if you set 6 as a crew number, and are OK running positions short on a Polaris, I’m gonna want 3 crew on a Perseus and 2 Perseus for 6 crew.
Yeah, range is a consideration but those size ten torps will outrange or match pretty much anything on the Polaris. Plus being able to pick up ships further away with better computers/scanner and radars.
Just as a thought…. We don’t know yet how effective point defence is gonna be. With torpedoes that large and slow, they may be easy to shoot down by auto defences.
They are two different ships for two different purposes. One is a long range attack and go capital killer. The other is a Patrol mid size ship killer. The Polaris should be paired with an Idris, while the Perseus should be paired with a Hammerhead. They are two complete different ships with different goals
I look at it like this:
The perseus should not be used as more than it is. It's a an escort or patrolling vessel. It is a ship that is best utilized when paired with a fighter detail or pair of hammerhead corvettes. It will probably find use in pirate organizations to disable cargo ships via targeting the thrusters, but otherwise may struggle to even stay in the fight against ships like the idris or polaris without support. On it's own it's less than ideal for engaging anything bigger than a hammerhead and I believe that it may struggle against an hh in a 1v1 with a more skilled and practiced crew in the hh. The armor may potentially give it damage mitigation in the future but as it stands, I think it will hold a similar status to the hh where it's usefulness means you rarely see them in active use unless npc crews/ai blades come online soon-ish
I definitely think it is pdd that these ships are compared so often. They have very different roles. The Perseus is meant to handle the larger sub capital ships and keep them off the capital ships as well as remove their fighter protection like Hammerheads. Then if needed it can assist against capital class threats, but not as well as something like the Polaris.
The Polaris is supposed to come in and threaten the Capital ships with those torpedoes. So fleet wise you would want at least a Hammerhead and a Perseus to accompany your Idris or Polaris. They keep everything sub capital off you and remove things like a Hammerhead that can try to shoot down the torps, while the Polaris handles the enemy capital ships.
Have a Perseus based on Aesthetics , apart from crew size and awesome paint......havent got a clue what its for, an indulgence.
A perfectly fine reason to purchase a ship!
You have a super flexible investment. The Percy is a navy-style long range deep space patrol boat. It was originally designed to be a fleet fire support frigate to protect the flanks of larger ships such as the Javelin and take on sub-capital and larger ships. She can also be a pocket explorer with the capability of carrying some cargo or an Ursa rover. In the lore, the mere presence of one or more Perseus ships in a sector would scare off the UEE's enemies or make them super cautious about attacking.
@@billionaireninjas Well knowone knows yet what game we will end up with, everything is brought on ''trust, hope, faith, belief'', because that's all you have with Star Citizen, CIG make no promises, hell...concepts from 10 yrs ago still haven't been built?.
ps: just look at the spanner in the works PYRO is causing for some backers, they probably will NEVER venture into PYRO .
That's why i treat what's on offer as an indulgence and not a religious experience. Enjoy
I get the point you're trying to make because they're both great ships in their own right as you said. I don't think it's as cut and dry as you're making it out on some points tho, Costs to run a Polaris will be a lot higher, but the trade off it can semi function on its own and it could even be a command ship as you said. The Perseus can be a center piece of a smaller fleet, helping to deter larger targets whilst fighters keep the Perseus from getting swarmed. I honestly think a Polaris, Hammerhead and Perseus combo is where it's at in terms of usefulness and diversity because of the sheer amount of coverage they can provide in terms of damage and across how many targets they can be useful!
All excellent points. Cost of ownership will certainly be a factor!
Maybe pair a Perseus with a Liberator that carries its own swarm of fighters?
I’m definitely getting a Polaris. I’m going to fill the bay half way with 4 to 5 Murai fury and it’s game over, I’ll take on a king ship with that.
I've been pouring over the Polaris preview and I've determined at least most of the new armaments for the Polaris. The Main turret under the nose has at minimum S6 guns. It could be S7 but it's hard to determine the exact size due to the S6 & S7 Behring energy cannons having the same model. Additionally, the top turrets are now S5. They have the S5 M7A cannons on them. The side turrets have quad Attritions of at least S4. Could be S5 but they're hard to make out and the models between Attrition sizes are the same. Then there's the rear Missile turret, which could have S2 or S3 missiles. And then lastly the Bottom turret is a Quad Attrition turret in at least S3.
Sounds about right we'll see if that makes it into the game!
Those numbers tossed around mean very little.
Shield is penetrated significantly by projectile weapons.
And armor is said to bock just about everything that is not strong enough to punch through it.
The hull HP as such is not that relevant.
What does matter is how well both shield and armor can protect critical areas and in this regard armor will beat shield.
Shield really need to block more damage in order to be dominant and we already know they won't.
I'll revisit this when armor is in-game. But as for now the HP totals heavily favor the Polaris. That being said the Polaris will have armor as well just not as heavy as the Perseus. Like I said we shouldn't even be comparing these ships.
I think it is important to remember that quite a few ships have gotten larger over the course of their development. I am expecting that this will be the case with the Perseus and it may also see different improvements or amenities be included. If the 600i is going to be able to carry a Nova and get a med bed (yes I know different ship role) and the Retaliator getting its rework/gold pass, I expect similar changes in the development in the Perseus will happen.
The polaris rework may very well make it a true capital. I havent heard anything about the Perseus getting bigger.
I currently own the Polaris and have a CCU to upgrade to the Perseus from a Carrack. However, if I am not satisfied with the Perseus, I will consider upgrading it to the Nautilus.
The nautilus is awesome I did a review on it and I own one!
I myself don't understand the comparison between Polaris and Perseus. Not only is the Polaris double the Price, the Polaris also is a sister ship to the Hammerhead.
been out the game for a while but ill pick up the debate a little i suppose.
Armor which hasnt been in the game has been said to have weak points such as escape pods ect. ships with more open spaces and not as thick walls will probably have a lot less armor. the hammerhead for example even if it is armored has hallways going through every inch of it and doors to the outside and i think escape pods but i cant recall.
ships like the pers, valkyrie, ect they have heavier armor and a lot of unused space on the inside which makes their walls thicker. in the valkyries case it has that double bulkhead to protect its drop troops.
when it comes to the shields a capital sized shield is better against 1 or 2 large shields but ... all capital parts are harder to replace and will surely be out in the field longer. The large shields are able to be swapped, and having 2 large shields means you can have 1 up and one out while you replace it. so even if a capital sized shield is 10x a large shield a large ship can carry extra shield gens to help make up for it and it will be easier to find spare parts compared to a capital ship.
This isnt even talking about durability, which a capital ships at 100% might win but eventually it will be at 70% or 50% and a large ship can still be replacing its parts regularly picking up spare large shield gens.
then capital sized ships verses large ships is already a stretch because its likely they might not even be in the same areas.
a large ship can go through smaller jumps and will also be easier to use around planet surfaces. Then you got the overkill of using a capital ship killer like the polaris verses a sub cap killer the perseus.
you might be able to win a fight against a pers, but if you dont you will loose a whole lot more. that pers has no parts you can use on your capital ship, no medical bays, no internal ships, probably not even ammo you can use for anything and might be nimble enough to avoid or destroy your massive torpedoes.
the pers doesnt have to win only cripple your ship and you have to head back for repairs. the polaris tho will have to win the fight for it to matter if the pers gets away it will probably be fine with anything besides a giant hole in its side.
the main thing i think about with thick armor is hull breaches and if your shield is down or in nav mode. that armor buys you time. Imagine a polaris trying to nav jump out of a fight and getting smacked in the side from a pers. thats a lot of damage. the polaris probably isnt taking a pers down while it jumps unless one of those torpedo connect.
Yeah I was wondering about that. I wasnt really sure but now that you mentioned it I think it was this channel where I already saw comparisons between the Perseus and Polaris. So why are you comparing them? I dont see anyone else do that. The ships are supposed to be quite different in their combat roles.
? I only have like 30 videos. Type polaris vs perseus into youtube you'll see like 20 videos. Go to reddit there are dozens of threads. Same with Spectrum.
@@billionaireninjas Ah my bad. I recently had another Perseus vs Polaris video recommended but that wasnt you. I was just thinking like who is comparing these 2. Anyway it would actually be nice if there were more combat ships in the Polaris range size wise.
No worries! I agree!
@Billionaire Ninjas - You are wrong. The Polaris has dual size 6 weapons. Said so on the north star episode. Also the Perseus has twin mounted size 7 weapons. WHich means a broad side attack to a sub or capitol class ship will make smaller cap ships take evasive action. Your confusing stats with the purpose of the ships. The Perseus is designed to slug it out and soak up damage because it is too slow hence the extra armor.
Look at that the first time someone on the internet told me I was wrong! Legendary!
You keep talking about Hull HP... Which is a current placeholder until Maelstrom arrives. It's not a long stretch to think the new damage systems will be in before the Perseus will be in game. Maybe not make it for Polaris...
I can only use current facts to make educated guesses but yes maelstrom will change things a bit perhaps this will be revisited
Kind of like comparing the retaliator and the Redeemer. I think I like a gunship better, but torpedoes are fun too. I would say that the Polaris would not be good for defense because you can only shoot so many missiles at a time. If you have light fighters coming in, you can only engage one of them with your smaller size missiles by the time they all get under the range of all your missiles.
There is no debate, for the same crew as a Polaris you can have 4 or 5 Perseus.
5 Perseus beat a Polaris, EZPZ.
They reduce crew requirements?
Both are still affected by reduced requirements and 4 or 5 Perseus still win.
I mean I can do that math with any ship. 6 Ares beat a Perseus so Ares will win in a ship battle. We're talking one ship vs one ship in this video. Not fighting each other in combat but which is the "better" ship.
@@billionaireninjas I know the video was setting crew aside but that is still my primary concern, getting 20 people together to actually fly the friggen thing all at the same time when a lot of people can only manage to play for an hour or two at most is like wrangling cats.
If we set that aside, the question for me for any ship becomes the amount of fun each crew member is having. The Perseus has some big ol guns for people to shoot and the smaller turrets will likely be able to be automated. The smaller amount of big guns are going to be more fun for the gunners than a crapton of small guns spread around the Polaris. It is easier to keep those fewer gunners entertained during non combat time as well. How much fun is it really gong to be to have 15-20 people just standing around not doing anything most of the time?
The Polaris, or anything with more than 10 crew, is probably going to need an org backing it with dedicated time slotting to be anywhere near effective and it is going to need heavy combat for it to be fun for most of the crew. That means risking the shiny asset that costs a lot to fix, which many Polaris owners probably won't actually want to do. The perseus on the other hand is much smaller, and the armor is a huge selling point of being able to get into comparitively more danger and survive.
In summary, the Polaris will be a cat wrangling sim for the owner, and likely unfun for the crew most of the time.
I think the fun is in how you use it. Mix in a few AI Blades and NPC's for the more mundane tasks and then humans for the rest. You have a captain and a few first officers running a bunch of red shirts. It depends on what kind of gameplay you want. Some folks will never buy anything larger than a vanguard because they only care about medium and heavy fighters. Others want to live their captain dreams. I have been in an 890 jump with 14 other people and we had a blast. A reclaimer and we had a blas and an A2 and we had a blast. I totally understand people not wanting to do that much cat wrangling though lol
If we are taking how things will function (or are planned to) then hull HP is irrelevant. That's a placeholder system.
It is a placeholder but not irrelevant those numbers are calculated by CIG they aren't random. That is a common misconception. That being said I was just working with the information available. Educated guesses have to be based on available information. Armor on ships will still have a breaking point similar to the hull hp numbers
@@billionaireninjas ships will be "destroyed" by neutralizing components. Small ships this may include severing areas of the ship containing them by that won't be common for large ships.
You'd be better off looking at how concentrated these components would be.
Perseus feels like it’s a great replacement for a carrack. Looks so cool
Imagine that size 10 torps get weapons officers who can opt to manually fly them!
What about the RSI Galaxy
I hope they rethink the cargo area of the Perseus. The top half where the walkway is located is absolutely useless. They could add a med bay there or sth
So many problems with this right now. Talking about ships that are not finished (or even started yet) when armour doesn't even exist and we don't know how it will work yet. And cargo... They already said that is getting nerfed.
Well that's the point of the video. Watch until the end. We say the same thing essentially.
This has to be my favorite video on the subject. I think the comparison is pretty fair to be honest. Alot of folks are looking at the two and thinking to themselves, what ship is for me. It gets interesting when you want the big mean scary ship that strikes fear when it joins the battle field. To alot of us we think the Perseus is that ship, and would be by a good margin. It has ONE job (so to speak). However, when you sit back and think about it and work the numbers, you start to wonder, is it really the big scary?
I'd like to see the Perseus easily be the clear winner in sheer combat for its class. Heck, I love to see a new game play strategy (im thinking warhammer style ramming). Again, when you start to think about it and work some of the numbers out the Polairs seems, dare I say, scarier?
Im still on the edge of my seat to choose. I was on team Perseus as a pure combat bad ass that, like I said, would strike fear when it rolls in for a fight. Now im not sure sure. The Polaris is really starting to change my mind....
Thanks again for the great discussion Ninja's!
I have been saying this from the beginning lol
Inserts photo of Hammerhead literally shooting down all the torps you shoot at it.
So the reason I think the perseus wins the 'survivability' prize isn't in the number of hull hit points. But in the way armor is supposed to work. If both ships were in game, I wouldn't switch to this metric, but since they aren't in the game yet, off we go! So from what's been written so far, hull points is a place holder. Component destruction will be the way to go. And once armor is in, it will protect the components by literally blocking damage. If you have light armor, you need at least a size 3 weapon to hope to deal damage. Medium armor will need a size 4+. And heavy armor will negate attacks from anything below a size 5 weapon. So in context, most fighters can deal damage to a Polaris, but you would have to have a glaive, an ares, or torps to deal *any* damage to the Perseus. So if the armor makes it into the game, and works as intended, AND we switch to the component damage system... then the Perseus will be a tougher nut to crack. If not... well I still like the perseus because big guns go BANG.
You may be right! Just remember that the Gimbal limitation will be removed so a lot of light fighters will have access to size 3 guns. Also how do you think cap shields will do against the same targets?
@@billionaireninjas Cap shield should be fine against all the attackers, but I think the issue is that the Perseus might be able to straight up ignore size 3 weapons. So in a big furball, the perseus can throw it's full shields forward and rampage ahead confident that the fighters on it's heels can't actually do anything to it. The Polaris on the other hand will need to keep the shields more evenly spread out to prevent those same fighters from attacking it's rear or flanks, because those attacks could actually cause damage to important or critical components.
Basically, a perseus doesn't even need it's shields to ignore a hammerhead all day long. But a Polaris needs it shields to keep a single light fighter from eventually chewing it's ass off.
I'm thinking the sheer time to kill and regen will be the biggest things working for the polaris. Yes you can eat at the shields but they will regen A LOT when you miss and even if you don't combat doesn't happen in a vacuum right? The Polaris will be shooting back and it has a lot more to shoot back with. All the Polaris has to do is get the Hammerhead off target long enough to regen a bit and then it has to fight back for all the ground it lost. Not to mention its running from torps. It will be fun!
on the website both ships have 2 large shields
i may or may not have both, me like making stuff go boom!
also ik it can be used for other size ships but that literally sounds like the Polaris was made to kill the idris
"turrets and missiles for light fighters, torps for cap ships" lol
I can see these two ships working together in large orgs. Even with a hammer head as fighter deter to top off. But on a head to head engagement between these two ships, Polaris wins hands down. With a ship fighter to go with that can basically act as a scout. Plus to top off the fact that the Polaris can out range it with the torps. Which remind you, can, so far, take out an idris with a successful four hits on the same shield face. If a Perseus can get within bawler range to a Polaris, something has gone terribly wrong or the Polaris crew/captain is over confident. Overall, these two ships are different mission purposes and armaments. But these two compliment these two really well if you look at them closely
The persious is a much smaller target... So the HP calc doesn't balance out quite right.. 🤔
And with the range on the size 9 turrets..
Size 9? Neither ship has size 9 turrets? The Polaris has size 10 Torps though. Perseus has size 7 weapons.
@@billionaireninjas ay.. That's what I meant.. Point being the size of ship though... 👌
The persius out ranges eveything whilst being a small target is the point.. 😉
Just one remark. You said the Polaris is a sub-capital ship. But its not. It's a capital ship. Even CIG labels it like that, even the game implementation has it at capital class. Polaris is a capital ship. Perseus is just a "Large" ship.
Ya, I got both, no reason to debate over semantics. Also Torpedo Dorito has capital ship sized shield generators. The Perseus does not.
Ballistica can go through shields, with the new targeting system and engineering, 1 burst to the si gle power plant or cooler of the Polaris and is dead in the water, plus the Perseus couls bounce a lot more fire power from bigger calibers, but i still like the polaris more, got both, but man, my beautiful Polaris is queen in my heart ❤️
I simpy prefer the top-deck bridge, that's all.
The Nautilus is more of a frigate and those so-called mines are closer in function to depth charges. In practice, the Nautilus will be deployed as a frigate due to her capabilities.
The Perseus is just a gunship and better compared with the Hammerhead; although these ships are still geared towards different purposes.
The Polaris is billed as a corvette but this remains to be seen. She could, potentially, deploy as a light destroyer if the armaments are sufficient and the player is rocking with extra crew.
Something people forget is the enormous difference made by damage control department and the fact that a ship's "toughness" scales drastically with the size and effectiveness of her engineering and damage control departments. There's going to be a lot of "how you play it" to this and, if it's done right, the limitations of ships will place higher crew demands on them for combat-readiness.
Excellent points. I will say that the Nautilus mines are a bit more effective than depth charges because they fly towards a target before the fire rounds or before they detonate. Also, they have a much longer life in space than a depth charge has in the water.
+1 @@billionaireninjas Yeah, there's definitely some overlap with self-guided torpedoes and mines, not just the whole depth charge thing. I suspect, however, these things will make them even better at being the space equivalent of depth charges and I expect they'll see a lot of use to flush out stealthed ships - if we ever see the stealth mechanic implemented on the same footing as dogfighting.
Your math on weevil egss is very wrong. 1scu of eggs is worth 105k roughly meaning 200scu is 20mil not 200mil
Yeah I carried an extra 0 my bad
might need a new video since they rebalanced the armor and shield specs or maybe just wait for maelstrom ngl.
At this point I'm just waiting for the perseus to release
I don’t think either of these ships have capitol shields. I think there both using large. If I’m wrong red pill me.
Gotta go watch the rework ISC! Finding the North Star!
Couldn’t decide…..so I got both 😂😂😂
Insert "why not both" meme here.
I will buy them both 🎉🎉🎉
Thank you for this video.
this is all the right responses to a T my man, hell of a job layin it out for folks 🤙🏼
Until the ships are both out AND the armor rework is finished I'll continue to doubt that the perseus LARGE sized military heavy armor is stronger than the polaris CAPITAL sized military light armor. At best they can be seen as equal.
And yes, comparing these two is not very productive. One is the smallest available ship that can operate as a full fleet supporting core. The other one is the biggest, fattest large ship bully without any supporting abilities.
What the perseus will surely excell at is running defense for ground operations to keep pesky A1 bombers at bay. Other ships have problems with killing them before they can deploy their bomb. Perseus will have the dps to strike trough.
I think I like the looks of the Perseus better.
Would be nice if the Perseus had a med bay.
If the perseus had a med bay I would trade in my A2 in a heartbeat
It would be a great combat mission ship then. Whack an APC in the cargo. Med bay (maybe teir 3) bombardment support from the under gun.
Tbh its stupid of CIG if Perseus dosent have a medbay. Any big ship should have one atleast a basic t1 especially military ships
i disagree with the shield debate entirely since both ships ignore shields since one is ballistic and the other is torpedo.
the only time shields matter is for laser and disruption weapons
I hear you. A few points. Not all the weapons are ballistic on the Perseus. Ballistics are slower moving than lasers. You still have to get in range to use those ballistic weapons and the Polaris has the Perseus outranged easily. Any ship can get ballistic weapons unless they have a bespoke loadout. The Polaris can get ballistic weapons as well. Lastly, Shields still are not in their final state and neither is armor so we'll have to wait and see... I think we'll find out this year!
I like them both... BUT, if I were to use cars to compare these... I'd say the Polaris is an 18 wheeler, and the Perseus is a fork lift... the both do the same thing, move objects around.. Except, clearly the Polaris and 18 wheeler can do many many MANY more things than the Perseus/ fork lift. . See what I mean
I've wanted a Polaris for years. Never saw it for sale.
It's a limited sale only ship. It's only for sale in May and November and it's $750
Thanks! Now I have an LTI Polaris, Perseus and Ironclad. ILW got me.
i don´t care about numbers really.
i like both designs.
i CCU'd 2 LTI ships to them, so i have both.
[insert the "both is good" meme]
The reason people compare the two is that they are both RSI Military ships priced in the $700's. It's natural to want to do a side by side.
As far as shields and hull hp/armor, CIG has said that this will all change. They will rebalance and rework everything on every ship, especially when maelstrom comes into play. So, in all fairness, this entire discussion on shields and hull hp is a moot point.
I'm not certain it's a moot point because I dont think they pulled their hull HP values out of thin air. They may not be fully representative but they still matter for now until CIG proves otherwise by realising more details about Armor
There is no comparison. These aren't even the same realm of ship.
Not sure people want the debate settled. 😋
It's a way to keep discussing the ships you love.
Yeah this is probably going to stir the pot more than settle the debate I'm noticing lol
I am going to assume that the Perseus is going to be the ship with the single best armor short of only maybe a Javelin.
According to the lore, the Perseus is going to be the oldest ship we will have access to, coming from a time when shields werent a thing and ships had to compensate through ludicrously thick armor.
You calling the Polaris a subcapital corvette is also inaccurate. It started off as one, but has since grown to over 150m of projected length. *Well* into capital ship territory. Its grown from a corvette to a frigate.
But you only mentioning half of the Perseus' guns as well as the Polaris' old size tells me you haven't done too much research into both ships.
Edit: I should mention that, while the Perseus we will be getting isnt the original 400 year old design, but a modernized refit with shields, it is still going to retain its colossal armor and relatively poor speed and agility.
It may be a capital after the rework but it's still listed as a corvette and I go by what CIG says first rather than reddit. If the CIG website says corvette how am I inaccurate? That would mean CIG is inaccurate. They have been before, but thats a CIG problem not a me problem.
HALF the Perseus guns? Which ones did I miss? You're telling me it has double what I mentioned? I said 20 size 5 missiles (meaning torps... Same thing) I said 2 size 7 weapons, 2 size 3 ballistic gatlings what does it look like I missed? Ok so according to you... Who've done your research right?... The Perseus has 40 torps, 4 size 7 weapons, and 4 size three gatlings. Send me a link when you find proof of that....
@@billionaireninjas CIGs ship matrix is notoriously outdated and neglected. They could probably task an intern with keeping everything up to date as things change during development, such as the Polaris' size, but they're either not willing to do it, or can put the manpower to use better elsewhere.
It is a bit of a mess to keep track of the latest statements through developer commentary, ISC's and SCL's.
And yes, you did miss half of the Perseus' guns. Emphasis on *guns*. I didn't say anything about it's torpedo complement.
The Perseus comes with four Size-7 guns in two main turrets with two guns each. One turret atop the armored prow in front of the bridge, the other one half-retractable on the belly of the ship.
Additionally, it has two missile defense turrets with two Size-3 guns each, also totaling four S3 weapons. One turret behind the bridge, one on the underside between the engines.
Ah this is a this is my rifle this is my gun. I said 2 weapons as in two separate weapons you took that as only two guns. I go by mounts available not guns per mount because that can change depending on how its outfitted. If this was a ship review I would went into detail about that but I did the persues justice by explaining that any ship below cap ship is going to have a hard time with it. Mind you I own a Perseus.
Watching this after the Polaris came out is wild.
Yeah its almost a year old lol