Ironclad vs Liberator: Settling The Debate in less than 15 mins
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- Опубликовано: 26 май 2024
- Liberator vs Ironclad: Settling The Debate in less than 15 mins
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The motto of #BillionaireNinjas is “Talk is Cheap, Ninjas Leap.”
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The Ironclad just called the Liberator's bluff. Now it's time for a fight. Who will hold the crown at the end of this one... the answer might surprise you.
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A few general updates: "spawn" in the context of this video means the ships you store on the pads will still be there when you store the liberator and when you bring it out of your hangar. Second, please wait for the Q&A before you buy anything solid. Get a CCU to all three and then hold what you got until the Q&A is released. See you in the 'verse!
Ah okay, thanks for the clarification.
Liberator with 2 prospectors extra bags and a Roc sounds like a great mining operation for 3 friends
Liberator wins for being a spaceship hauler , while the Ironclad wins on hauling cargo.
But the ironclad can hold 4 small fighters too
@@GhostRecon2015
If the fighters are the same size or smaller than a nova tank, then yes
@@GhostRecon2015I like the pads outside for a fast defense. You can even put Tonks up top of a Liberator and use them up there. The crew requirement of a liberator are 2. So this frees you up more to operate escorts.
@williamallen5986 possibly, as the Liberator can carry several small fighters and utility ships in the cargo bay. It could easily accommodate 4 fully loaded HullA for the matter.
I kinda think there’s a third option….. the Liberator and the Ironclad Assault complement each other on a planetary attack. Lots of guns and missiles on the way in, and once down lots of defence with all the size 5 guns doing AA work. But in the ground man you could have 6-7 Tonks and the Liberator could supply how many Fury’s, maybe 8 or more from the top decks?? Would be wild.
I am really enjoying the rock paper scissor of these ships. We don’t need replacements, we need options.
W comment! Exactly this!
They keep dancing around it, but let's all be honest. The Ironclad is meant for the after-the-attack portion of Piracy. You toss their cargo into space, and pull it into your cargo bay. The "High security" section is literally just a jail for hostages.
Great take!
What?! Drake ships being associated with Piracy? That sir is SLANDER of the Highest degree! I'm SHOCKED, and surprised.... well not really.
The Herc is great for piracy as well but that doesn't mean it is a pirate ship. I intend to use my Ironclad for freight transport and overkill ground missions where I can land a mile away and drive in with whatever vehicle I want that day. Don't see the need for a repair bay at the cost of so much space or the extra turrets. If the enemy is trying to stop you from landing your main problem is going to be torpedoes.
@@ValosarX the "Assault" I doubt will live up to it's name, I don't see it being a dropship you throw on top of enemies like the Valk or Steel. I think I'll more or less be used as a forward repair and resupply depot.
I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS SINCE THEY CAME OUT!!!! Finally someone who gets what this ship is for... Why do you think it has an internal turret?? Party on man!!!
You can't spawn anything anything on the Liberator. What they said is, you will be able to spawn the Liberator with ships on the pads.
This is correct information
Was wondering about this.
This also goes for the landing of larger ships on the top pad. They will clamp down. You just probably can't store the ship like that...well.
This is exactly what I mean in the video. However The q&a doesn't say that either... what it says is you can't spawn large ships... leaving an inference that you can spawn medium ships and below but it does not clarify what "spawn" means. So its all speculation, but considering the cargo refactor its more likely just spawning with ships on pads.
I choose the Lib.
For me as a solo I am going to use it as my daily hub. Can throw a prospector and vulture or a hornet and a ursa med on it..
So you can go do whatever you want for the most part and 400 scu is enough to go spend an hour or more depending on the activity fill it up about head out.
So fo a solo I think the Liberator is the better choice. Plus you can make money transporting other people's ships to Pyro.
Ironclad Assault is interesting to me but the fact I heard it can only repair land vehicles kind of threw me off. As a solo I would end up just using it as a cargo ship.
Lastly the next closest ship in the vehicle transport is the M2.
The thing with the M2 is it has pilot controlled guns which is huge. You can run bounties and carry around an ursa and C8r . So again you the ability to dip in and out of gameplay loops.
So I dunno.
I like the look of them.
The base would be my choice if I was a cargo player but it would appear the Assault doesn't have a tractor beam which is just crazy to me.
So yeah I'll stick with the Liberator until something changes lol...
Doing giveaways consistently is incredible. I appreciate the hard work you put into a community that I love.
Two things about the Liberator I think you have some misunderstandings on:
1. With the trajectory of how CIG is physicalizing everything, I don't see their original vision of "spawning ships on the Liberator pads" would hold true. Imagine being able to store two Hull-A's that are loaded with cargo in the Libby's quantum realm and have their cargos untouchable by pirates, or "storing" a ship on each pad and parking more ships on top with them staying physically present. That'd be mega stupid.
2. There has never been such a thing as a ship being "magged down". From Q&A: Anvil Liberator - "Can the Liberator transport one big ship on both its upper decks providing the latter can touch down with all of its landing gear?
Officially, this won’t be supported as large ships won’t be able to spawn there, but what players do after the initial spawn is up to them. So, while they can surely ‘Tetris’ larger ships onto the landing pads, it will likely not be supported as an official method of landing."
Landing a ship and having it stay onboard another ship is enabled by one of Star Citizen's core tech: object containers. As long as the majority of an object's volume and its center of mass are captured by a ship's "onboard zone", it will inherit all of the ship's motion. And if all landing gears can touch the Libby's pads, a larger ship *will* be able to be shipped by it.
Libby wins the vehicle shipping game, no contest.
Well partially agree "spawn" can mean a few different things it may just mean when you spawn the ship your other ships on the pads spawn with it. Also what happens in hangars may not be the same system for carrier ships. You mention being able to hide a hull A, well that's only 64SCU of cargo so not a big ask. I say in the video that if you want to ship ships... Go with the liberator hands down. All my small ships fit inside the Ironclad base with ease so I don't need the dedicated carrier but I own both just in case.
For me the liberator sounds really appealing, I'd always seen it as a bit of a mobile base to get amongst the 'verse without needing to always head back to port. Park a vulture and do some salvage, a C8R/Nursa for med and respawn, medium/light fighter for some bounty hunting, maybe even a light cargo to shuttle freight back and forth planetside. With a 1 crew minimum it's your personal home in the stars.
Liberator can also use the internal as a RoRo (roll on roll off) like the C2 and M2.
Every update feels like an early birthday gift. Thanks, devs!
I am looking at the 3 ships to use as a salvage / storage . to stick a vulture in / on it empty it into the storage and go to the next salvage. instead of heading back after every salvage ship
I have the same plan.
The anvil crucible may add the option to spend your salvage materials into repairing, thus you don't have to pay for materials to provide repairs neither pay for repairing your own ships, wich is SEEMS to be a solid business plan.
@@axelmousti5812 yup sounds like a plan
These two ships are transport barges but don't have the same specialty at all and are therefore not competing but complementary!
The assault version is too specialized in ground attack, so it's even less a competitor for the Liberator, and, even if it finally has a retractable roof and tractor beam (which is not sure), it will just be a competitor for the basic Ironclad version !
It's that people are comparing them and wondering which to buy.
Glad someone finally asked and answered the question
Brotha! you are solving every debate out there. Yessir
Nice job in clarifying some of the details I did not know,I bought both the Ironclads/assault and because of what you stated, I decided to get the upgrade from the Assault to the liberator but not apply it until everything is known and then comes out in game,this way it is only 40 dollars upgrade and I had in store credit so no out of pocket and if I choose not to use it I can just melt the upgrade for the 40 bucks,thanks for your help.Just to clarify I did know you can't spawn anything on it but the fact it has dedicated ship spaces makes it valuable for transporting ships nothing worse than a ship or vehicles moving around in flight.
I got the just the regular ironclad, i'm just want a regular hauler.
Same
How many people to you regularly play with? It feels like soloing a C2 is on its way out relatively soon. I'm interested to see how well it does landing on planets. 1500SCU will make doing the last leg of cargo worth it almost certainly though.
You did something there..😊 Best Braid, Big Built, Billionaire Branded.
My friend and I have been having this discussion all week !
They werent super clear, but im pretty sure during the q&a they meant the lib can be spawned with ships on it. It hasnt been spoken of since.
Second, key thing unkown is the height of the ironclad's cargo area and how far apart the struts are that the the tractor beams ride on. I feel like the clads ship transport is going to be way more limited than people are imagining.
I was tempted by the drake, but i habe no interest in mass cargo running. The flexibility of the lib, its crew requirements, and use made me stick with it. The dedicated cargo area unaffected by the ship storage, and its ability to be a mothership for multiple things such as mining, salvage, repair (vulcan/srv), fighter carrier, etc just too nice. Also with current dimensions you can put a redeemer and all sorts of other silly stuff on the top pad.
The cargo area height thing is actually fairly simple because we know how much cargo fits inside and we know how it fits 32scu boxes its just math after that, I also wonder about it's ability to fly open...
I see your point about the mothership thing. I think its all about what your fleet needs.
I just got it to the verse about a month or two ago and I thought I was fine with my c1 but the longer I play the more I need a big ship to truly live out of and make a profession
Well let me be the first to tell you it is a slippery slope my friend. I will advise you to just buy one cheap ship (less than $200) you like and earn the rest in game. It will save your wallet a lot of stress lol.
The social aspect of Star Citizen is what sets it apart. It's not just a game; it's a community, and videos like this are proof
Star Citizen's multicrew gameplay is a blast. Videos showing coordinated team play are a great example of what makes this game special.
Dude, I love the clear distinction between the three. I agree with you 100%. Thank you!
Thank you, I really wanted to balance this question.
I love the update frequency!
Nice overview. Thanks very much!
I really like both ships because they will function very similarly.
With Pyro on it's way and more systems coming, a ship like the Ironclad is almost a must have for a Firefly/Serenity nomadic style of play. Having a very flexible jack of most trades, depending on what you put inside the 1500 SCU hold is great. Whether it be a fighter for bounties, a ROC/Prospector/Vulcher, a C8R/Nursa or any combination. Myself, I want to do the long haul cargo runs and while doing that, explore opportunities to discover derelicts, rescue others, scan for resources etc. The Ironclad has extreme long range, 4 large shields and armored. I really hope CIG goes the rout of individual bunk rooms like the Corsair. I feel that I will be able to pick up almost any mission in my journeys through the Deep dark of the verse.
The Faterpillar is definatelly dedicated cargo hauler, not vehicle trasporter, but has also this capability as an addition.😉
Man i really love both of these ships. Star citizen is at its best when you can have a big clunky box that lets you do whatever the hell you want.
Been looking forward to a video to compare the two, though I think they'll serve slightly different purposes overall.
the pads and repair ability are realy big points here
CIG has stated that the shields of the liberator will most likely Not cover ships landed on pads, except snubs.
Liberator has a tractor beam. It's located on the same side as the PDC opposite of the manned turret.
Yes it does!
I did see something about that repair bay thing. I wouldn't mind being a space mechanic.
I was so close to melting my Lib for the Ironclad, but smartened up and just upgrade a combat ship I rarely use (Redeemer... Love it, but rarely use it). I'm happy to have both the Ironclad and Lib. Some people think you can land ships in the Ironclad, but I'm not so sure. Depends on how much room you have to the ceiling. It looks like it might be shorter than what a lot of people are thinking.
There is something about how you light up on camera man, you are photogenic as all heck!
Being so indecisive, I took the only option available to me - I have both the Ironclad and the Liberator, and picked up a $5 CCU to an Ironclad Assault. Just need to get my Caterpillar back now...
thanks for making this
Great video thanx for all the info
Need to remember aswell, Ironclad has been concept'd in a time where CIG has a pretty good idea where they want ships to go and how they work.
Liberator had all the bells n' whistles when its concept was released, i wont be suprised if it gets sorted properly when it goes into production.
Picked up an IronChad today.. ended the debate on my own terms.
Minimum crew on the liberator is more interesting in a way
I like the 2 person crew but I'm not sure that will be valid... I wouldn't run any of these ships with less than three people anyway.
I fully agree with you but this offers also the opportunity to have a kind of a mobile base of operations for two or three friends for example for mining as you can have a prospector, an expanse and a roc for example and store your ores on board and then sell them 😊
U beat me to this comment
I think the minium crew is because of the turrets. So if you fly the Ironclad with 2 persons you still has a better day with the Ironclad because of more shields and bigger turrets.
But the Ironclad can be even better with more crew while the liberator is limited to 2 persons max.
looking forward to more options in this size class.
Really timely video
Now I'm wanting a Liberator. Thx...
First time here! Love, love love the intro! Please get a 4k cam. Thanks for the content bother!
Working on it! I appreciate the support!
I'm going to dock my liberator with my endeavor somewhere deep in space as my base.
I hope if the roof is actually closed you could use it as a landing pad to repair even if it wouldnt be a permanent landing area
looking at the art, the Ironclad cargo has 2 manned dual turrets (one dorsal one ventral) and 2 dorsal remote dual turrets, plus the one interior remote turret that's likely dual.
the Ironclad Assault has 2 dorsal manned dual turrets, 1 ventral manned quad turret, 2 dorsal remote dual turrets, and 2 ventral remote quad turrets (plus the interior one most likely).
it has at least ten more guns than the cargo variant but who knows if it'll end up like the Reclaimer and not able to use all of the turrets at once.
The Ironclad Assault would be a great mobile base. Imagine a (future) assault on a settlement with vehicles and troops while you can defend the base... The Liberator for bringing in (medical) ships and fighters.
I think that the less armed of the three is the Liberator (correct me if I'm wrong). The Ironclad have one dual S5 manned turret (I suppose is in the belly of the ship), one S3 dual manned turret and 2 x S3 dual remote turrets (all in the upper section of the ship). As an extra you get the internal dual S2 turret for "self defense" during boardings. The liberator only have one dual S5 manned turret and 2 x S2 dual automatic PD turrets...
A very attractive feature of the Liberator is that you only need 2 people vs 6 on the Ironclards, but, as you say, each one is better in one role vs the others.
For my needs the Ironclad is a no brainer. I upgraded my cat to the Ironclad base using store credits and the loaner is another cat, so I'm happy.
Good video man, thanks for your work.
I agree but I do think both work best fully crewed. I wouldn't risk it. The ironclad is a no brainer for me as well but I'm waiting for that q&a to make sure...
Star Citizen's combat is a clash of titans.
The landing pads on the liberator and the ability to use them to spawn vehicles is such a great quality of life feature.
You make some great points and with those, I come to the conclusion that the Ironclad is more of an all-around ship compared to the Liberator and you are getting much more bang for your buck.
I doubt we will be able to spawn vehicles in the black, more like in the hangar
@@Spelljammer1 Yup
I definitely went with the assualt mostly for the repair bay. I figure I can work around the lack of a tractor beam turret with keeping an Argo Tractor inside.
I personally love the Liberator, every time I look at it all I can see is the mobile bases/FOBs that the UNSC uses in Halo Wars
Your assessment of each ships primary function is spot on. As to cross function, with front and rear ramps the Liberator loads and deploys vehicles faster than either Ironclad. Between these the Liberator has more and better cross function than the rest.
Plus the liberator can haul 2 medium ships, a heavy fighter, 2-5 ground vehicles, and still retain it's entire cargo capacity of 400SCU. Ironclad can fit a single vulture sized ship and you lose your entire cargo capacity doing so.
Great video!
Both IronChad variants look awesome and bring nice variety that we need in game. I can't wait for my Crucible and repair gameplay to disassemble and fix all of those ships.
Had no idea about spawning on the liberator!
tracker to go with my ironclad? yup! this is one of the few ships we have always needed.
We'll really have to wait for the Q&A, but given the description given by CIG, I do believe the Ironclad (at least the standard one) will be able to act as a light carrier for pirates, giving us proper landing pads in the cargo bay.
I think you need to re-evaluate the size of the ironclad my guy, the picture has 4 novas in it and it's packed to the walls, 4 novas is about the size of 1 heavy fighter/vulture.
Where does thew Crusible fit into this. Also what would make the best minning and refining platform?
Crucible is the best repair ship, I wouldn't use it for anything else. You will be able to carry a ship or two in it though. The best mine and refine is the RSI Orion. It does both.
with the liberator you need to count what ship scan sit on it to the weapon count. the top ships dont need pilots if the guns are manned could be a lot of extra turrets.
Excellent point!
I hope the assault has the same openable roof as the base variant
Good video
Thanks 👍
I was really struggling on the release but ended up going for the ironclad base, Before it was announced i was thinking of getting a liberator.
Ironclad opened up a whole windows for competition to fall into. And I'm ALL for that 1k-3k SCU hauler competition. ❤
Star Citizen's universe is a testament to the power of gaming.
I think the best bet for people that can't decide between the two Ironclad ships is to buy the bass that get the CCU up to the assault but don't apply it
For kicks, what you do is open up the lid of the ironclad/assault, and have the vehicles inside blast away at enemy ships from inside with missiles and bullets. And arm people with rail guns.
Assuming it will remove atmosphere when open, the question is if people and vehicles will stay in place when top is open and ship is cruising, which is probably a yes.
I think the developers stuck repair and reloading together in a non negotiable system, and for some reason, I think conjuring vehicles is a part of that system (requires separate computer). Unless they purposely make it so you can't fly a craft into the repair section of assault, then that will limit it to ground vehicles.
I got the assault before the Q&A and the price increase. But also got a CCU for the base version to leave it in the buyback.
Nice comparison
Some great updates , did not know about the potential to spawn vehicle's on these large ship. Can't wait till there all in the game
I am 100% looking at the standard Ironclad. My original vision for the Liberator was as a mobile base of operations; Somewhere to land a couple of smaller ships to have options for when doing different missions. At this point, I'm expecting the Ironclad to be out first. It also seems a more viable candidate with a dedicated area for ground vehicles (shown with Mules but should still fit an STV or hopefully an Usra/Nursa) along with the cargo area which seems could allow at least 2 smaller ships, or 1 medium ship. The shields are also a factor as, as of right now, the Liberator is only planned to have 2xS3 shields while the Ironclad has been given 4xS3. I fully expect the Liberator to be given more shields (either 2xS4 or 4xS3) to help bring it up to the new standard for ships, but we can only judge from what we know.
They are the perfect duo.
The Liberator sounds really appealing to me. However, I did not pull the trigger yet. Your video definitely helps a bit making that decision. Thanks.
I already bought an Ironclad Cargo, I'm sold its going to be one of the most versatile ships when it releases
Had me going there for a bit. I thought if the Lib can spawn ships, I'M IN! Love the Ironclad concept but not seeing the Assault is worth the extra $$ to loose the top doors and the Tractors... Need the Q&A to work out what Actually is there.
To be fair, the best ship is the one the you like
True!
I got an Ironclad assault. It be nice to see it in game within the next 2 years but not sure if it will be.
The tractor! I need it!
I already got the ironclad base .
Then you already won.
Just some points:
- The component fabricator on the assault is a size 0, meaning it can only make components to for vehicles.
- Ironclad base has more weapons than the liberator.
- Liberator cannot spawn ships, but it can spawn WITH ships on it.
Overall i think these points just highlight your base point. They are all for seperate purpouses. The ironclad base also has tractor beams and a brig with a person standing behind the gates in the concept video and brochure, making it a bit more catered for piract than the assault and the liberator.
CGI seems to have sufficiently differentiated the role of each vessel that they are individual and better at their intended role. However, each had the ability to overlap the other’s role but clearly inadequately when compared to the dedicated boat. CHI is forcing us towards orgs and then again smaller orgs will need to specialize. It will take a very big integrated Org to encompass all roles well, from mining to salvage, from bounty hunting to war.
I have been preaching on the future ability of the A2 Hercules for years lol.. It's going to be such a flexible multi-role ship. The fact that they shot the price up on it so high is very telling, too. Behind the scenes, they know when a ship is average, above average, and S-tier.
The A2 is what I'd call S-tier. It's small enough to be used regularly on the industrial front, and packed with offensive and defensive measures to be your go-to combat ship. Bombing runs by day and cargo runs by night. Plus the incoming armor is another slept on trait of ships in SC. That A2 is a true Swiss army knife.
I just need the IronClad to take a Vulture and a C8R inside. We'll take care of the rest.
I feel the Liberator is my winner personally! But love both for their purpose. Curious to see larger Crusader ships hopefully also for these roles.
I respect it!
I seriously doubt the Liberator is going to keep the ability to spawn ships. I mean... where do they come from? Thin air?
Well the ship is still in concept so who knows .. but by spawn they may mean it just spawns with the same ships you left on the pads.
Same place they come from when you spawn them on a station. ;-)
The problem is that many people forget again the current state is "it fits in what fits in" but probably that will not be the case in the future so only ground vehicles and no spaceships go on Cargo Grid simply for balancing reasons because that would make every carrier ship useless e.g. Polaris, Liberator, Kraken, Idris and Javlin and that was once the statement of CIG has somehow a reason why it only says 4 Tonks.
Well I agree in part. The "if it sits it fits" portion I think will continue to exist. I believe The main difference will be your ability to spawn ships on dedicated pads which in this case would be make those ships the better buy for people who needed to do that.
I think they all serve very different purposes. Ironclad is cargo, Liberator is ship transport, Ironclad Assault it ground assault. Decide what you want to do most and there's your ship.
People interested in the difference between the Liberator and the Assault should pay close attention to the shield(s) size and if that roof still opens on the Assault for secure resource delivery. Do not expect to bring vehicles back to life using the Assault alone.
I want the liberator. It can carry a few fighters, some ground vehicles like the nursa, and a bunch of cargo; all while having some good firepower, QT fuel, and looking awesome.
I also like the more heavily armed version of the ironclad, because it looks cool, can carry a bunch of cargo, can carry ground vehicles like the nursa, and has good firepower.
The liberator is way more exciting though, because of it's ability to carry both ground vehicles and ships. It'll basically be a mobile base.
I respect your choice. I think the Ironclad will be able to do the same but without dedicated pads but I definitely could be wrong. I really only need it to fit my F7A or hopefully F8C along with some cargo.
@@billionaireninjas Hey, do you think a couple of scorpius could fit on the two bigger landing pads on the lib?
Absolutely!
@@billionaireninjas ok awesome. Last question, would an eclipse fit on one of those two bigger pads?
It fits! The eclipse uses an xs landing pad!
I had no idea the Liberator could spawn ships on it, it steps up its uses imo! Still... right now I'm going for the regular Ironclad, but still waiting for the Q&A to make a decisive conclusion
It can spawn with ships on is the better way to say it
I agree with ya on this one depending on what you can spawn such as a vulture or any fighter will put it on top. I always found it hard to fill the c2 with cargo simply because the closer full the more trouble seems to find ya so ironclad feels like a death trap of bad luck.
Great summary. It it always important to see what you want to do with these ships. Then everybody should pick their winner themselves (-;
Upgraded to an Ironclad from my catterpillar with some store credit i had. I like the Cat so it's ok if it takes a while for the IC to come out. I like the Lib, but realistically don't think I'd get enough use out of it without an org.
I don't think a ship will be able to land in the Ironclad, there is that "crane" framework going horizontally across the top of the huge cargo bay near the middle.
This is just a guess in regards to the Liberator spawning ships. I don't think it will spawn ships on the fly. I think when you are in your Hanger you can spawn the ships on the liberator to avoid actually having to spawn and fly each and every one of those ships. So for the sole purpose of loading the liberator I believe it will allow for spawning when your in your home base/hanger.
Yes check the pinned comment!
@@billionaireninjas Oh yeah my bad. I usually watch the video and comment. Then I read comments. LOL. And of course I usually skip the Pin comment because I am looking to what others are thinking. LOL Sorry about that.
No worries!
To play it safe, I reclaimed my C2->Liberator CCU and converted it to a C2->IronClad->M2->IronClad Assault->Liberator CCUs for the same money. That should let me try out the different versions as they become available and to decide. I am not so sure about the respawn of vehicles of the Liberator, but if that is true, that is a significant value that will keep the Liberator in the run. The number of people required to operate the ship is also a significant factor.
The spawning thing may change with cargo refactor so we'll see.
More ships is always good. Would be nice to have NPC crew though with some of these bigger ships, even a 2seater
Parking MPUV 1T on the IC:A would solve the tractor discrepancy. Seems like running a Lib & IC:A concurrently would cover everything we need to move into Pyro.