Cheap Repair on My Ferrari Brakes Turns Into A Disaster
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
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The CCM Brakes on My Ferrari 360 need a major overhaul, I attempt to save some money but this repair costs me big time !
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Now you know where the thinking behind Ferrari calling it a "Challenge" Stradale came from!
Lol this one has certainly given me a few challenges over the years
I always thought comprehending a $7,000 paint stripe was the challenge. I guess it’s challenged in more than one way…
Common problem with the seized calliper bolts, it’s a reaction between the different metals. In theory calliper bolts are meant have Loctite applied to the threads which can also help eliminate this problem. 👍
I knew that bolt was snapping as soon as the jack handle came out, at that point I'd have pulled out the gas torch and gave the threads a serious sun tan then went on it with that impact gun (the 1/2 inch mac guns are quite decent btw)
As that saying goes, every simple 20 minute job is a broken bolt away from becoming a 2 day ordeal.
@Too Many-Secrets if it starts turning to liquid you've went too far with the heat lol
Stupid to have Allen bolts on exterior parts. My Jag had a 60 torx holding the lower front shock mount. Guess what? Couldn't remove it so I took out the shock and suspension swing arm. When it came to refitting I used a 10.9 14mm bolt with a 22mm hex head. Problem solved.
I have moved to only using Grade 8 or 10.9 bolts on everything. No more broken bolts.
You can’t heat an aluminium hub.
@Too Many-Secrets "agreed, can’t be stuck if it’s a liquid" so funny! 😄
I've been subscribed to your channel for years and years and while I do love the recent challenge spider build and the BBi saga, the good old fashioned, one handed, tools everywhere, taking apart of a Ferrari on your driveway videos remain my favorite 😂.
What you have demonstrated with this video is the nightmare that all of use have experienced at one time or another while working on our cars. A two hour job turns into a 2 day horror show with cursing, crying, and self pitying. If you work on older cars long enough, it is certain to happen! Thank goodness you were able to work your way out of it. Love the videos, keep up the great work!
Cheers George
I remember a mechanic once telling me that the absolute worst thing you can do is not clean the caliper before starting the job. He used to spray and brush the exposed piston and everything before taking the caliper off. His theory was to remove as much gunk as possible before pushing that crud back into the seals whilst getting the caliper off.
There's a dust boot, spraying crud makes it thinner which can make it transport easier, and the piston seals are exactly that - seals. If they're not sealing at low pressure when pushed back to change calipers, they're not sealing under braking pressure and need to be replaced.
@@scod3908 yes, there’s a dust boot, but cleaning the exposed area of the piston would reduce the amount of crud being pushed against it. Call it preventive. I’ve never had to replace a seal on a caliper where this has been done. Was it a carbon Ferrari one, no. But I can’t help but think it helped. Which is why I commented.
I can’t be the only one getting squeaky bum watching you wield that jack extension bar only a few inches away from the 456?! If it was me guarantee the bolt would have suddenly given way and the bar would have gone flying.
WD-40 is not, repeat NOT, a penetrant for this sort of job. Use Plus-Gas or Bulldog BDX. For USA viewers there are alternatives. A 50:50 mix of ATF and Acetone will do an even better job. Leave the WD for Water Displacement on your electrics.
Oh it is a degreaser you can use it as that too!
I was thinking the same thing when I saw the WD-40 - probably better than nothing but not the “tool for the job” - especially on such a difficult and expensive part. That said, time is your friend and I much prefer my Alfa Romeos now they are race cars than when they were my commuting transport for Monday morning!
Hey Scott. I live a few roads over from where you picked the bbi up from. I work for a tuning company that carries seals in stock for brembo calipers. Not specifically for ferrari but the calipers we use them on dont look disimilar so there's a chance they are the same? Can take a look for you if you like.
You made the right decision buying the hub.
I've done a few motorcycle calipers with seized pistons. I think the two issues you had trying to get them to move were; One, you need to stop the live pistons moving when using compressed air and two, you need a good seal where the air gun goes in otherwise you don't build enough pressure in the caliper. Take one pad out and clamp it to stop the live pistons moving. You should be able to get the stuck ones moving then. I've made up a line that has a fitting to attaching to the caliper on one end and a schrader valve on the other. Using this set up I've managed to get 150psi in there and pop those pistons out. Keep you fingers out of the way! When you have done one side you can repeat the procedure on the other,. You may have to put the freed pistons back in temporarily to do the other side. I've seen the grease gun trick but hear its very messy but good luck with what ever you do.
trust me no amount of air was budging those. I tried again at the shop with a fitting
you'll see in the next video just how bad the pistons were
@@Ratarossa I was thinking that if it were mine I would fill the caliper with penetrating fluid, let it soak for at least a week, then try again. If you already had it at the shop you may have done something similar. I guess I'll find out soon. : )
I found the best way of doing that is turn your Steering wheel to where the wheel is turning outward towards you to have more leverage
Love your honest video and just goes to show it's not always easy. Just having my Ferrari 458 ceramic discs x 4 replaced and pads. I'm staring at a horrendous bill!
Let me pass along a bit of advice that a carpenter taught me my first day on the job: Never use your hand as a hammer.
A copper sleeve over the top of the broken bolt in the hole, weld into the center to build up metal and once proud of the surrounding surface weld a bolt to that, while the bolt is still hot whack the top with a hammer, use penetrating fluid (WD40 isn't penetrating fluid although it's often used for this) and she'd of come out, pretty certain as it's always worked before. Two things happen: The heat from the welding always breaks the corrosion in there and the weld will not stick to the copper/effect the alloy surrounding it. Do all this with the hub still on the car. Always enjoy your videos and having restored many rusty old Citroens these methods do work, steel stuck in Aluminium is always tricky. Eating the steel away with Alum is also something which works off the car, takes time though (days). Keep up the great content, always enjoyed.
Never had a piston win from the greasegun, that is definitely going to work
Same for me, the most rotten old jaguar callipers will loose towards the grease gun 💪
One of the reason they seized was due to the fact there is moisture in your fluid. Common issue with high end cars that don’t get driven that often. Replace fluid regularly and use premium fluid.
Caliper mounting bolts don't have brake fluid flowing through them, so that's not the issue. The lower mounting bolts are exposed it more road spray than the top bolts. I prefer Kroil penetrating fluid for jobs like that. It's really great at assisting the removal of corroded bolt and nuts.
Talk a bolt of the same diameter, chop below the head, so it sits a few millimeters above the hub. Then drill through the center, and mig weld onto the broken bolt. The heating action from the welding will help loosen the stuck snapped bolt and now you have something to put a socket on to remove. Best of luck
In amazed that those discs survived considering how the tight caliper must have generated a lot of heat?
I reckon that your initial snapped calliper bolt may well have welded itself in there with the additional heat created when driving with the calliper dragging.
Great vid.
@@graham6229 Agreed, looked like dissimilar metals (aluminium hub, steel bolt)
Definitely galvanic corrosion from the aluminum - steel.
Hub might be salavable if the bolt is carefully drilled out...
Waiting for the BBI, but loving any other content you bring it on!
Maybe after this put the brake fluid flush and replace as a yearly maintenance procedure .
I suspect the grease gun will win, but you might make the job a little easier by trying a pliers or channel lock on the exposed end of the pistons and try go give them a slight turn. Going back with SS pistons? Worst case EDM (electric erosion) can get that bolt out if other methods fail. I assume you're going to service the other side to ensure a balanced set? One of the guys in the comments either makes them in SS, or offered to make them. Might be interesting.
Since you have a welder, and if the remnant of the bolt is near enough to the surface, you can get a good grade 8 nut and weld the center of the nut to the remnants of the bolt... (re-top it!) and that plus the heat may get it out w/o having to pay for exterior help.
This is the most realistic brake job video on RUclips.
I'm laughing because it's true. These jobs where day-to-day sh*t just goes wrong are my favorite. So relatable. Best of luck, Scott!
Had an oldtimer show me a trick for times like this.....use a drill bit half the diameter of the bolt and drill well into the center. Then get a drill bit 1/16" larger, set the drill direction the direction to remove the bolt, begin spinning the drill, then jam it in the hole you created earlier. If it doesn't come loose and spin out, go up another 1/16" until it does spin out.
I hate working on cars. Love watching someone else working on cars.
Sweet breaker.
stay positive and keep going, thanks
cheers buddy
From the depression of a broken bolt to the eternal optimist shining through after finding a duff bottom ball joint - and having a new lower arm to play with!. Love the flip flops.
Thanks buddy
Hi Scott, over the years I've bought stainless pistons from a chap on Ebay. You send him your dimensions and he machines them up. Never need to worry about corroded pistons again- all for about a tenner each!!
You are my dream neighbor.....Just out in the driveway on some random weekend wrenching on Ferraris. Just living my Ferrari dream life vicariously through you. Thanks for the content!
Sway bar link x2...Tie Rod + 2 ....do rack end x2 as well !
Somehow my video on replacing my calipers on the Noble doesn't seem so much of a complicated thing to do 😆. As always a brilliant and enjoyable video. Thanks 👍
cheers buddy
from a 13 year classic italian car tech to you..before you screw up anything else,,, before you stuff things back togeather,, clean all the parts,,in the holes the bolts go thru,,run a gun cleaning brush thru, to get the corrosion out/off the parts, clean all the bolts,, then coat them with anti seize. this will alow the part to go back togeather, and prevent the problems that you had......broken bolts...do it right the first time
Steel bolt, aluminium-alloy hub, I presume. I always use grease on the thread to prevent situations like this.
We've all been there. I would have used the impact wrench, and cycled it between loosen and quick burst of tighten to try and break the bond. For the 911, you can get a kit that replaces the caliper bolts with a stud and nut. It's just too easy for a bolt to become stuck in the aluminum, as you found out. There must be something like that for the Ferrari, too. Also, consider why the pistons seized in the first place. Porsche recommends a complete brake fluid flush every 2 years. A little moisture in the fluid and then not driving the car regularly can seize the pistonds.
Why is it that car manufacturers don't lube the threads on things that they know will suffer galvanic corrosion? That hub will need a timesert once the bolt is out cos even if the threads not entirely buggered it'll be weak and corroded.
I'd also think that Brembo or AP Racing would have the relevant seals n dust covers if asked nicely as it's not like Ferrari made these in house with Brembo just down the road 😉
Offf, that bolt was destined to snap with that bar hanging off it. I’m not at all car mechanic minded or experienced, but would a shop with a rattle gun been a better bet?
I think part of your problem was the breaker bar. It is not only too short but is the springy type. Get one that is fatter near the head therefore stiffer.
With bolts that are corroded into the metal they screw into, you can at times get them out by untightening a very small amount and then retightening, repeat this many times gaining a tiny amount of movement each time you do it.
Also place a steel bar against the head of the bolt and strike it several times with a hammer to shock it.
Always enjoyable, informative and entertaining to watch even though I don't drive Ferrarii! Can I recommend the use of knee/kneeling pads? I speak from bitter experience of many youthful years of unprotected kneeling on hard surfaces and crouching down very low - basically my knees are now totalled. Such a cheap and easy way to prevent future years of discomfort. That's my two pennies' worth of wisdom for the day! Look forward to next installment.
I was going to suggest a grease gun, I even found the end to have the right thread so it screwed straight in and got really good pressure on a Porsche caliper. I also had seized/snapped caliper bolts on both my 996s, it was because they are through bolts and the exposed ends get crap/corrosion in them and gaul up the thread as they get unwound, I used the aluminium version of copper grease as a preventative measure on re-assembly.
thats very handy to hear I will check it out
How you clean the grease afterwards? Really bad idea.
Meanwhile I was able to use a garden hose to build up enough pressure to release the pistons on my Honda Blackbird bike :D I was lucky it was no where seized like these!
exactly, grease em up or they will seize, will they come loose? I doubt it.
Thanks!
There is not much you can do about this situation. You can drill into the bolt to relive the inner tension and then bore it out so that a torx bit fits.
Not convinced that bolt would ever have come out conventionally - My favourite - Heat followed by Freeze & Release. I've known bolts go from seized to almost finger tight - and it smells nice!
interesting ... what do you use to freeze ?
@@Ratarossa pipe freeze spray from screwfix is good
Dear Scott. I wish I could just call you. I recently removed two such bolts on the 4pot version. The breaking force required to remove the two bolts was the same for each. INXS of 200Nm. I measured it. You must block the movable pistons to focus the pressure on the siezed ones. But before you do anything size up the good pistons and cross ref them with the service kits available for the Abarth 595 or Alfa or Renault etc. They may be standard Brembo. If you are a jamie sod, they may well fit. Good luck olde bean. Message me if you like. Best wishes from Cuckoo land. Mike.
Thanks buddy, ive managed to solve it all now. Appreciate the message though
A bit random I know, but love the bmx with the mag wheels in the background
Thanks buddy..... bit old skool
Now ya need a caliper bracket damn
WD sell pro penetrating WD. Too.
Really good video. So informative regarding things that can go wrong.
Cheers Tim, I hope these videos do help out others
You can probably buy Fiat pads ( or some others WITHOUT the HUGE pricetag name ) exactly the same BUT a 1/3rd of the price!!!!
Over £700 just to change the fricking pads. HAHAHAHA. I just drive these Ferraris around the Dunsfold track and hand the keys back. Ahhh beautiful.
I’m in the same boat with my 550. My mechanic said it has to do with the inside of the canals in the calipers and the pistons oxidating or reacting to (maybe non spec) fluid. He will be boiling them out and ordered a revision kit directly from brembo. It’s a lot of labor, but luckily they can be fixed to work another 25 years ;)
I was told that with the Enzo, 430 and CS Ferrari the pistons had a cheap coating on them and hence this happens a lot.
@@Ratarossa it’s a very strange pitting. I can mail you a picture of mine so you can compare.
@@Ratarossa I have manufactured stainless steel pistons for those, if you pump the origionals out with grease you can then polish them to the point where accurate measurements can be taken then make them in stainless. The seal kit will be available but listed under another car or try Tim @ circuit supplies based in Leighton Buzzard however if not machine the caliper to take a slightly larger piston and available seal kit from another hight performance car.
@@pauldavis4990 good idea. Still going to be cheaper than a replacement! find a local engineering shop. If the calipers are going to go in the bin anyway it's worth a shot!!
Looks like a clear case of galvanic corrosion between the steel bolt and aluminium hub. Have you investigated the use of induction heaters for such tasks - excellent bits of kit and have become affordable. Also, WD40 is not at all good as a penetrating fluid. PB Blaster and similar products which use a chemical action are far better.
You'd think Ferrari would plate the pistons.
remove hub and use a EDM machine? ( electrical discharge machining ) the opposite of welding ! it subtracts metal used in mold making was invented by a Russian and perfected by Americans google it ! fascinating !
The moral is… check your car thoroughly and regular, then change / service parts as required… it will save a lot of surprises and spread the cost and avoid some.
not in this case those pistons are prone to going even on the most regular serviced Enzos
Reminds me of the father ted episode when Ted found a small dent on the car he was going to raffle. A must watch episode if you haven’t seen it.
Love the channel mate.
I hate it when a bolt rounds off and drilling is the only option.
What has happened to the 512 bbi ?
Every 20 minute job is one broken bolt away from becoming a few days long saga.
1/2 inch bolt with that power bar you might get 150 to 200 ft lbs and when you add that 3 foot cheater it just multiplies it and 1/2 bolt will not take that force. Heat , Use a punch and beat the bolt head to shock it, and then shock it also with impact.
RAT MAN I BET A LITTLE POLISHING THOSE PISTONS WOULD GET THEM TO FUNCTIONING JUST FINE .
EVERYBODY MOANS AND CARRY ON OVER FERRARI REPAIRS , RAT JUST GETS IT DONE CHEAP TOO
Many years ago I had a similar issue on an old Volvo and put C-clamps on the pistons that moved and then stood on the brakes to pop the seized ones. May put too much stress on the rest of the system but it worked.
"plus gas" releaseing spray the day before might have helped if it'd got in the threads, makes wd40 look like pi&& water
6:19 why is your Ferrari logo on upside down on the caliper compared to the new ones?
That horrid feeling when the bolt moves quicker that it should and then you realised it’s sheered. Been there a few times. Feel for you. You could take it to an engineering firm and get it removed to save the hub but they might have to put a thread insert in. I’m not sure if that would be strong enough in a braking application. Good luck getting it finished.
thanks buddy. That had crossed my mind also regarding strong enough for the caliper
Expensive backyard tinkering… prancing horses tend to kick back and get you unprepared… anyway, cross fingers and keep on tinkering 🤙✊
Thanks buddy. It can all be fixed the issue was more time than anything
use some zinc anti seize from jetlube best stuff to stop steel from corroding to ally parts, and steel to steel.
Ill check that out cheers
There's not really a lot to say that didn't come out on your video.
All those bolts have years worth of water & salt in them plus none of them look to have any grease on them.
Talking of grease, I'm not a big fan of Coppa-Slip on anything other than exhaust & very hot related parts. Anything that gets wet needs to have a Lithium based grease applied so that it repels water.
If you have to use Coppa-slip then swap it out for a nickel based anti-seize as this is 110% better.
Scott- you want to use PENETRATING oil. This is not WD40, and works much, much better.
As soon as the Xtra long lever came out recipe for disaster ,penetrating oil is what you need,also try tightening the bolt to break the threads
Then try to undo it
Oh yeah, for the guy that wanted to sun tan the hub. First off that is putting way too much heat into the wheel bearing, and getting aluminum threads real hot, is a real not great idea.
There is a special machine that will remove the steel bolt from the aluminum upright and can be found at many machine shops (here in the US at least). I broke a tap in my Porsche upright and my machinist got it out in a few minutes time. Brembo should have new pistons and a rebuild kit for your calipers.
Would be very interested to find out what that tool is Geoffrey ?
Do you mean spark erosion (MDM)? I do wonder with a steel bolt if drilling it out might be easier; as the spark erosion machines are used for removing hardened taps (which you can't drill out)
@Geoffrey Ring Yep. I'd assume drilling out a bolt would be preferable to MDM/EDM; given that it's not going to be as hard as a tap.
10:18 sometimes you win, sometimes you "loose" lol
Beautiful car, it is a pity that they used parts from Fiat to build this model. Italian plasticine screws.
These are the same calipers you find on 63amg cars for really cheap
*Disaster* would have been nicking the brake disc while putting the wheel back on, for instance
when you were showing us the broken bolt look at your side view mirror. Spiderwebs?
Yer those suckers have made a nice home in an expensive mirror
Sometimes you're the windscreen, sometimes you're the bug. But like you say, silver lining, and giving the girl the fit up she deserves. Hope it all goes back together easier!
Cheers Rich. Thats my thoughts, when its finished it will be worth the effort. The brakes have been getting worse for a while now
A large power impact like Milwaukee etc would have walked it out. Get the original hub drilled and retapped for the standard bolt to have as s spare.As for piston seals go to biggred they can match them for you.
Would that bolt have seized up from the heat generating from the caliper issues?
I would have loved to have seen an impact driver, I was telling my son whilst we were watching, he needs to get his impact driver out
@@briand8090 No its steel to alloy corrosion
Im sorry mate but as a fan that drives me nuts! When u half fix your cars. U fix 1 side but not the other. With the control arm etc. u fixed the other side 2years ago! I think we all know if u wanted too u can afford to do it all at once. And then its done! Cmon son! Thats crazy!
we’ve all been there mate.. just have to shed a tear of joy 😅
is it just me who was sceaming at the screen to use the nut gun for the calipers bolt, putting that much torque through a bolt like that is bound to either strip the head or snap it, if you use a nut gun you shock it out and it wouldnt have snapped I recon
As an American, I was thinking, "No Yank would work that hard with hand tools while a perfectly good impact was sitting right there." I used to be like Scott & avoid impact wrenches on these tough jobs, but someone knowledgeable on YT (maybe Mustie1?) suggested that impacts can shake things up a bit, loosen rust, and actually prevent broken bolts.
Hi Scott. Once you have the hub of. You can have the bolt spark erode it out. A good engineerING firm should be able to help mate. Regards Bob Rose cosworth.
Cheers Bob, i will try that and keep the old hub as a spare
Hands up who thought the trolley Jack handle was going to take a gouge out of the other car 😂😂
Ferrari master tech would have had all the same issues as you, but with genuine parts and labour for that job ? You have saved 10k Scott 😅
Send the calipers and have them Stainless steel sleeved and o-ring the pucks.
There are plenty of places to get stainless steel brake pistons in every imaginable size.
The BBi is yet to appear. Apparently it's been sold? Not sure
Filming currently on it …. Massive task ahead on the BBi !!!!
No dust seals on the pistons, Ferrari will have made a fortune out of that over the years lol
I was planning on buying a Ferrari but this has changed my mind now
Proving how I’ll never own a Ferrari. 😉😂
I can’t believe that same brake system is installed in the Enzo. Same faulty design. That’s insane!
At least you found some more worn out parts with all the effort it took to get that caliber off. 🙂
You’re a trooper man!
Yer buddy, its the same brake system entirely on the Enzo. Every cloud like you say, Ill replace some other worn parts and it will be better than ever when finished
Non car question; what tint is your glasses?
Let's face it - if you'd given that problem to a dealer, you'd have simply ended up with a massive bill - so you're no worse off. TBH, it's even a bit refreshing to see you struggle - sometimes your skills make stuff look too easy! Fingers crossed for the next one, mate..
Thanks buddy, yes I like to show when these things go wrong and we all learn from those issues and mistakes right
Any suspension job on UK cars exposed to salt is a lottery. Corroded fasteners everywhere just to start with... and on it goes.... Your experience today Scott is text book. But you'll get there mate.
Could have 200 pound plus shipping by just removing the rest of that bolt.
Should have turned left then you can see what you are working on
Always avoid ceramic brakes on older sports cars the performance advantage is not worth the extra cost and if not serviced correctly - particularly checking discs - you can have a very poorly brake system on your hands, really not for even experienced DIY'ers
Ive had these on this car for 12 years now and never had a problem, even with the seized pistons they stopped great.
You didn't use proper penetrating fluid. WD stands for water displacement. You needed PBBlaster
Don’t use wd40. Use penetrating fluid and leave soaking for a couple of days. Also why not drill the bolt and fit a helicoil?
Yep, W40 is NOT a penetrating oil.
The main problem is any penetrating fluid would not have got anywhere near the seized part of the bolt.
For £200 it was better to get the hub complete, ill explain why in the next video. But I will for sure now I have the time, get the old bolt out and keep this hub as a spare
@@marcryvon Yes it is , that its main use
Don't worry mate, you'd still be saving heaps as it's not in the shop....yet ; )