Driving your investment strategy? - The Carmudgeon Show with Cammisa and Derek from ISSIMI Ep. 80
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- Опубликовано: 8 янв 2023
- On this episode of The Carmudgeon Show, Jason and Derek talk about the Hagerty Bull Market list for 2023 and the companion video piece that Jason and his team created for it. (the tl:dr on Bull Market: Hagerty has a team of folks who nerd out on tracking vehicle values based on an assortment of data that only Hagerty can access. They then make a list of vehicles that they feel are a great value in terms of being an entry point into car collecting and that have the potential to, at a minimum, hold even and at a maximum, increase in value.)
Watch the Hagerty Bull Market 2023 video here: • Inflation Beaters: Car...
All this and more, brought to you by the Hagerty Podcast Network. 
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My only issue with this show is that the episodes aren’t twice as long and twice as frequent. 10/10 would be a paying member for one extra episode per week.
Jason’s cousin has entered the chat
DT-S is clearly the designated driver for human existence, as is evidenced by the fortune cookie
oh yeah! about time. 2023 can finally start for real.
Jason's impression of tyre screeching at 09:58 is crazy good.
Agree. In fact, all the car sounds he makes with his mouth are incredibly accurate!
Derek's "Meh" regarding the SLR sounded very French. He's been practicing to drive his Citroen.
Oh... You guys made the joke yourselves a few minutes later. Don't I feel original.
Excited for all the 2023 content! Just want to give you guys a tip; i don’t know if y’all are monetizing these, but RUclips just changed something, so now, any swear words within I’m pretty sure the first 30 seconds will flag the video for demonetization automatically.
There is a BX in NYC! Street parked it was, often
Love the R129 chat!!
The AMX was really cool! AMC never had the budget for anything so developing a sports car was out of the question. So they built one using what they had lying around in true AMC fashion. The AMX was a javelin with the back seats removed and and the wheelbase cut back to roughly where a Corvette wheelbase was. It was the only American, 2 door, 2 seat, v8 sports car you could get that wasn’t a corvette.
We need a montage of all the Cammisa car noises
Y’all describing the SLR the way I do and nobody ever believes me lol. Weird car, neat, fast af but with the same trans as a sprinter van. BUT that transmission is durable unlike all the garbage single clutch boxes out at the time.
To be fair (and I'm not sure why they didn't mention it), it is a grand tourer. Not a drivers car, not a sports car, it's for long drives at relatively high speeds. It's design is also pretty under-the-radar, so it's not a madman attention grabbing car either. That's probably why it doesn't appeal to the 2 principal carmudgeons or most of their audience
@@surrealtom So why Merc went for McLaren design team? Seems a project stretched in all sorts of directions
You both Jason and Henry are my favourite car journalist, so opposite but love both styles.
this episode and the vibe between Derek and Cammisa was TENSE...
I feel like Jason and Derek should start a Carmudgeon Forum. Not for one specific make or model, but just all of us old farts who like quirky old cars. It would definitely present a great platform for interesting automotive discussion.
Yes, or a Discord chat server
PLEASE get Catchpole on the podcast!
Derek being completely done with astrology is maybe one of my favorite moments in the Carmudgeon Show
Derek is such a Pieces.
41:55 my 2014 Yaris weighs 2200 with me in it. It’s not a special car by any means though 😂
Really glad Jason you made a teachable moment there about Monica Lewinsky there at the end. She is indeed freaking awesome for what she was put through as a 23 yo for a dumb mistake and how far she has come since then! Thank you for that :)
I've always thought getting a bj from an intern while being a president of the - at the time - most powerful country on the surface of the planet was a (VERY) 'dumb mistake', while giving head for a lifetime of media exposure and the leverage that comes with it might have been, in hindsight, one of the best decisions she's ever made. Bosses have affairs with young assistants all the time, young women leverage their looks and age for way less than what she got in exchange while 'working' way harder for it. Hell, she wasn't even particularly attractive to begin with. Being trashed on by people too dumb to get over the fact that their beloved supernatural father figure is in fact a human male with carnal cravings and she's not the sole reason things happened, in exchange for being able to monetize a hardcover or a paperback with her photo on it and virtually anything inside, being asked for opinion after all these years and having a financial freedom for comparatively little effort doesn't seem like a big price to pay AD 2023. Every public figure today has to put up with haters and tons of insults and neither of them blows a married president to deserve it, they just put themselves out there.
Never seen an interview with her, but it makes me think how many people who get bullied nowhere near to her level think it's too much for them and end their lives. She for sure has a way stronger psyche than many nowadays.
The Citroen GS was initially released with a 1015 cc engine. Later a 1220 cc and much later it also got a 1300 cc version. The engine is an aircooled 4 cylinder boxer so a double 2CV engine
Bring Henry to the Show!!
The question is whether or not the collector car market can sustain the growth it has seen lately. I'm old enough to remember clean 246 Dinos selling for $15,000. I also remember the classic Ferrari market exploding and then tanking. Jason's right, though. Don't buy as an investment, but something that will put a smile on your face every time you drive it.
Great episode loved the behind the scenes stuff.
Re: TT and R32. I test-drove the 1.8T manual quattro TT, 3.2 DSG quattro TT, and Mk4 R32 back-to-back. I bought the R32. It was the most fun.
The TTs were really different from each other. I mentioned to the Audi salesman that I was a rally co-driver (I drove up in a 323GTX) and he encouraged me to drive like I was a rally driver (wait, didn't I say 'co-driver'). The 1.8T TT did some weird things in a couple tight corners. The 3.2 TT was fun, but the DSG didn't seem eager (as opposed to the one in my current mk7 GTI).
The R32 was so good that I had two. But ended up selling because I needed rear doors (and it was more than constantly breaking sun visors accessing the rear seats).
Finally!!!
I still want a full episode just about the R129 =)
I had a BX . Look forward to spending money on the suspension and those green spheres.
The AMX was a shortened, two-seat version of the Javelin; the only other American production two-seater at the time was the Corvette. AMX was V8 only, with 290, 343 or 390 options. Neat cars with relatively low production (less than 20,000 over three years).
"I'll show you mine if you show me yours". Id like to see both of theirs.
I installed a Carphone in the first R129 in the UK when I worked for London Car Telephones. It was horrible to work on, the hood mechanism is insanely complex and I can only assume they are really expensive to maintain just based on the complexity and that keeps the costs down. (oh, and Jason, do a show on the BMW i3, would love to see why you hate it so much)
Nah. Daily driven a 129 for 5 years now and wrench on it myself. Bullet proof engines that went into lots of cars, bullet proof trans that went into TONS of cars. Lots of parts, well understood. The issues with the 129 are minor stuff like hydraulic cylinders for the top, valve cover gaskets that need to be redone from time to time, and interior plastics that break but are easily replaced. Mine has been insanely reliable.
49:30 that is why I always change my bicycles to have the right lever control the front brake and the left lever the rear brake to make it more similar to my motorcycles.
Woo!
I’m with you guys on the R129 pick. I also like the first gen cars in esthetics but would prefer the 5-speed auto over the 4-speed but love the M119 engine. One of the best engines Mercedes produced. The M113 and k is also a robust engine but 3 valves and twin plugs gave the nod to cleaner emissions.
There's a 400i Limo on sale at hemmings for $75k
Javelin was a 2 door - AMX is shortened 2 seater (not 2+2) 390 was the big engine option
The fun thing with motorcyclists riding bycicles is when they have to do emergency breaking... It has some similarities with people who have only driven stickshift, trying to left foot break a car, or trying to press in the clutch on an automatic car...
(Only difference is that depending on the surface the bikers either loose the front end and impact on the ground, or they do an unintentional stoppy and get thrown over the bycicle and impact the ground.) Hence many of those switch the bycicle breaks left and right.
‘GUESSSSS WHO GETS THE CLAP?” Best opening line ever……. 😅😂😅
I've seen a BX around Philly! Sitting outside a random shop in the suburbs lol
Goated
So you get the R129 but don't really the SLR, maybe you expect it to be some kind of Lotus7 but you don't want that on the street, exactly that honky Blown V8 is so fun with the automatic it means you can blast anything at a kick
A strong negative / positive of the LM002 is that some - like the one I drove 15 feet in 1988 - reek of fuel. What also permeates the experience is the V12 ... so, yeah, all good.
Saabs had the offbeat nailed down. I owned a 99 with the Triumph TR7 motor and it was fun until the Triumph electronics got too old. A long time friend bought a 900Turbo in 1985 and it was fun. Great winter cars if they didn't have English electrics. He liked Saabs enough he has been trying to corner the market in turbos - owns something like 7 of them.
And, yeah, AMC won a Trans-Am championship. After Penske won the 1969 series, AMC paid him to run a Javelin starting in 1970. Ford won that year, but Mark Donohue won in 1971.
My sister in law had a 900 Turbo. I completely agree with everything Jason and DT-S said about it. It was an absolute riot to drive hard. You'd never know it was a small turbo because of the lag. Once you figured out the lag timing, it was game-on.
@@dougrobinson8602
They were also incredibly sturdy. In the late 1980s, the brother of that Saab-loving friend put his Saab 99 in the Big Thompson River driving the canyon between Estes Park and Loveland Colorado. The car was totaled but they both walked away unscratched.
Get Hyphen to Atlanta and in some Murci’s.. Ed Bolian could get you seat time in exchange for a few stories..
Amazing video but Just a question, what's the difference between old american cars being floaty and french cars? Because as you noted in last podcasts they both are soft in suspension and seats. But other than french engine, whats the difference in characteristics?
I've driven 5 different Murcielagos, unfortunately all E-Gear, but every one drove substantially different. Funny thing is the one that I felt the best had been crashed quite badly and rebuilt really well!
I can easily imagine a skilled shop building a better Lamborghini than Lamborghini.
So, is the SLS better than the SLR? Even without the magic McLaren touch.
I also prefer the pre-facelift R129. Seems like 90% of the market is facelift cars, people don't even know how much nicer the interior is on the early models.
When it comes to BX's the GTI 16 valve is the one to get. BX weirdness with Peugeot 405 Mi16 screaming engine.
We need these two to do car clips together, where their dialogue can bounce off on another
My heart hurts a little with each dig at Audi lol My favorite brand, though I don’t drive anything special.
let’s goooooo
@33:56 . . . "It was pouring.", (JC) "oil out the bottom" 🤣
The point you make about that Harley is interesting when applied to cars, go back to something THAT old simple has an appeal all it's own, something that is almost furniture like in its ability to stand the test of time.
You guys chat about R129's a fair amount. Wondering what you're thoughts of a E320 Convertible are?
Interesting part about R129. Bembil (a designer with a youtube channel who dissects designs in a easy to understand way) has just done an ode to R129, but with a strong preference towards the facelifted one. I understand why you prefer the original Sacco tank but I can see the appeal of clear lights, more aggressive bumpers and lack of Sacco panels on the car too. I tried many times to warm myself up to it, hell, even recently discovered a RC model of it I had as a child while rummaging through old boxes at my parents' house but still quite can't.
Well I agree with them totally, and later R129s never lost their Sacco panels, they were just tweaked, badly.
@@libran58 you're right, I've always thought the protrusions were integrated with body panels post-facelift, but I see now that's not the case.
@@pdcichosz The earlier cars are better, more pure Sacco design, I particularly dislike the later blobby wing mirrors, and the flashy side skirts.
Just watching this now so a late comment 😂 but would you rate the original 4.2 v8 R8 manual more highly as a drivers car than the v10 dual clutch automatic?
One of theses days you should make an episode( or a tinny part, let be reasonable) in french with english subs just for fun. It will be quiet an experience for all!
I always enjoy your shows! I have a 2005 C55 AMG with 8000 miles and I’d love to hear your opinion on future value. Thanks.
Take good care of it! I have a hunch that early 2000s AMGs will rise in value because of the current AMGs going hybrid
Just drive it and enjoy it...
@@johnbacon4997 will do. Thanks! 😊
@@DogZy9 I’m planning on it this summer. 😊
2380, that's why they are selling for 80 grand baby. As an air cooled vw guy 3/4s of the appeal is a car that can very easily be made to be under 2000 lbs
The S1 is the original, and the novelty of a reliable rover engine.
Edit: the original Fiesta was in the first Bay transformers. Apparently made in Detroit, I couldn't verify.
I don't recall European Fiestas here. I could easily be wrong about that. The European Ford I recall most fondly was the Capri II. I had one with the V-6, and it was a blast. Faster than a stock V-8 Mustang of it's day. There was a very enthusiastic band of owners.
First gen Fiestas came to North America but weren't produced here. They went away once the Escort was launched here in the early 80s and the spiritual successor was arguably the Mazda-sourced Festiva.
Funnily enough Canada, specifically Kelowna has a GLUT of manual Murcis. One dealer has 3, similar miles, asking C$600k for each.
Lol, I'll be that guy that defends the weight of the Z32. My bone stock 1990 non-turbo 2+0 was ~3020 lbs. with a quarter tank of fuel, and slicktops are even lighter. I'm not sure why everyone thinks they're so heavy, it must be because of the 2+2s and verts. The cars also got heavier in the later model years. Granted, the Twin Turbo models are several hundred pounds heavier than the non-turbos since they were saddled with HICAS, adjustable suspension, etc.
TTs had enough power behind that weight, especially with boost jets and an off-the-shelf ecu tune, to where it didn't matter. The Z32s just feel like a more solid, premium product than the Z33s, until they break of course.
It’s funny everyone talks about how heavy the z32 is the t-top tt 2+2 is still lighter than a jza80 supra admittedly my factory tt slick top is small compared to the supra
C5 Corvette on original tires to go on a "show" to talk about them being collectable is the most Corvette thing ever
you should talk to Ed Bolian about murci's
Jason is a Libra? No wonder I fw him so much.
Also Derek is Pisces if he was born on February 22nd, which sounds about right since Pieces are known to be old souls. To that point, Derek is 96 years old mentally.
3:03 what a fucking way to start an episode 🤣🤣🤣
RIP KB43
in europe r129 sl600 is already 17500 euro ( looking at them for a relative to buy one)
Hey Jason, I might be wrong , but I believe you once mentioned that you have a masters in law yet I've never heard of you doing any professional legal work. I'm currently doing an LLB and want to pursue a career in the automotive industry. So I'd like to ask, why did you choose to become a journalist rather than do legal work in the car industry?
Check out earlier podcasts, I believe the earlier ISSIMI ones. There is an episode where he dabbles a bit into it.
@@DogZy9 Okay, I'll look into that. Thanks a lot!
Isn't "broken" the natural state for an old Citroen?
the only car investment seems to be every version of a 911..bar the 996.
Did Jason say the S1 Elise looks horrible? I guess he said the same thing in his Elise episode, so it shouldn't be surprise. Well, in my 20+ years of S1 Elise ownership and taking it to meets and shows in WA state, I have found that his opinion is not a majority view.
I like the s1 elise more than the s2. Looking forward to get one too👀
The other thing that I don't get is that both of them said that S1s aren't a thing in the US. Tell that to the people in the UK and Europe who has seen the price people are willing to pay for S1s have gone up since they started turning 25 years old.
If not originally being sold here is a reason to say that they are not a thing here, then I guess Integrales aren't a thing here and neither are the ABC kei cars, pre-99 R3x Skylines, and Defenders.
I now know if I meet Derek in person, I'm asking what his astrology sign is 😅
A GBP5K citroen from the UK... well.. at least it will be light weight.. rust is very efficient 😧
Let me get an episode about which cars best suit specific astrological signs lol
The most famous 'driver' of a McLaren SLR is Paris Hilton. And that's what that car is: the Paris Hilton of cars: storied family history, lots of monetary power, beautiful on the outside, utterly vacant and vapid on the inside.
Drive drive drive. I know people who have gotten their cars so nice that they start trailering them everywhere and end up driving less than 50 miles per year. I just bought my first non-modern car (a 1969) and after having fresh tires installed drove it from Denver (where I had purchased it) to NYC with a stop near Fort Worth to pick up parts needed to reinstall air conditioning into it. If I don't drive it it might end up being worth 5% more (if I ever sell it) but my enjoyment will be 90% less. A poor trade off.
I love so many of Haggerty's features, their online valuation tools, their forums, etc. all great. However, I do not insure my classics with them for just this reason. When I contacted them about coverage they said I should only drive my cars to shows, and otherwise keep them in the garage. Maybe I just had reached someone on a bad day but they convinced me not to insure with them becuase I drive my cars to work sometimes, the store often, etc.
I recall that the SLR badge was much better looking… I must’ve been dreaming because it looks BAD lol
“We doodoo a bit of bullshitting” 😎
If I wear a camissa with Camissa's face on it, does it become a Camissssa?
Clarkson fawned over the original, early LP580 Murcielago manual opposite the Zonda in the very first episode of Top Gear so I wonder if the value proposition of the LP640 is exaggerated when you could have that...certainly my choice of supercar if I came into loadsamoney 😁, think the '03 ones were manual *only* aswell.
Somehow early Murci looks a bit purer too, love the upswept pipes compared to the garbage-can-sized muffler on the 640.
ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY ABOUT THE R8 🤣
Total meh. I'd even go so far to say S2 Elise>R8 ""supercar design"" wise. So bland.
Also: showing up in a Miura to buy a Murci: /watch?v=aCMI4dppenA
And describing Saab engine bays always reminds me of: /watch?v=5UvbQzpmP3Q&t=41s
I think old British bikes like Nortons have the reversed shifter/rear brake thing (recall seeing that on some old British info film on here about young riders and motorcycle safety) so it's probably another chicken v egg like how RHD cars became standard in Japan because they copied old Austins to make their first cars
My prediction of the year Jason winds up with an r129. Who is with me 😂
Can you just start the episodes with a song again? We all know who is paying for the show.
Bear market :3
Car companies could make production cars lighter, but they would have to spend more money by using lighter materials: so, that's not going to happen.
This show is in desperate need of timestamps
Jason camissa would make a great joker. Heath ledger joker
7:44 are they all, by any chance vaccinated?
Tell all of the guys that rallied Saab 900s back in the day that Saabs aren’t sporty.
I like these guys but they don’t know how to say “I don’t know” and then proceed to fill in the blanks with what they think they know. I hope that Hyphen doesn’t do that at work with his customers.
As a full fledged every episode viewer. Please cut the awkward intro the episode clap banter. We value your opinions and conversations. Make it smooth, and get into it.
Using vaseline lens now gentlemen?...or are you just out of focus for the entire show?
All this bull shit and bull market talk... The button needs to make a comeback.
What button
Why are all the jabbed people getting sick
Ed Bolian from VINWiki can tell you all about manual transmission LP640s. @VINWiki
Should get Ed Bolian on, he’ll answer all of their Murci questions
Also want to see his reaction to the McLaren Mercedes being roasted