Is Shimano 105 Di2 Really That Bad?
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- With the release of Shimano 105 Di2 it might seem a bit pointless buying Ultegra Di2 now, I mean they're virtual the same right? Well in many ways yes they are, but there are key differences I've discovered from riding them both
Shimano 105 Di2 review • Shimano 105 Di2 First ...
Shimano Ultegra Di2 review • Shimano Ultegra R8170 ...
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the bottom line is that every rider should be able to anticipate gear changing, especially on the front. most of my races take place in the big ring and changing gear time has no impact on my sufferage or race outcome. we are being sold expensive solutions to problems which don't exist.
and if it shifted like shit you would be the first to complain, i lost because.. i got dropped because...
“Don’t challenge my bottom line, otherwise I have to change my bottom line”, someone said. 😔
Maybe they should just make groupsets where you only have a rear derailler, and just have a single big ring at the front.
You are spot on right and now bike companies are coercing us to buy grossly overpriced e-shifters by not giving us a choice of purchasing comparable mechanical group sets and charging us several thousand dollars more to, as you correctly put it, solve a non-existent problem.
In my experience most missed shifts are more often than not a result of lack of focus and timing, not mechanical issues and eshifters won’t save you from that.
My method of sprinting is pretty much identical to yours and missed shifts has never been an issue. Nor have I ever been dropped due to a miss shift as with most modern mechanical shifters in proper working order and properly maintained missed shifts is a virtually non-existent problem.
@@fradd4045Which quite frankly has never happened to me in over thirty years of riding and racing.
It's truly sad that a mechanical 105 option is no longer available ! 105 has always been an excellent low cost high proformance group set, Di2 105 is not low cost !
Don't worry, the next Tiagra will be the old 105, so no problem.
@@MrDan92700 OK, yeah, I hear you. One thing is for sure, Tiagra will have some big "Group set of thepeople" shoes to fill.
It needs to be like half price or less
@@Knowbody42 That would be an improvement but even if the price were cut in half, I would still want everything on my bike to not require charging to function ! Aside from lights, although I have thought about getting a dynamo. Maybe the dynamo could be set up to charge the lights and group set. Even so, I'll stay with mechanical. So in the future, I guess it's Tiagra the new group set of the people, for me.
You would think they could just reliable the older durace groupset. Granted some would say just buy the old groupset, but I'm having a hard time finding it for sale anywhere, guess they don't make it anymore.
The comparison of the front shifting is very impressive, great review!
Yep, that'll do it for me.
Ultegra on next bike (still running the first gen dura ace di2 though....just won't die!)
I was watching the video thinking well if it’s as good as my old ultegra di2 front shifter then that’s good enough…… saw the new one 😮 “I want it”
got the 105di2 - no ragrets. would recommend for casual riders
the complete groupset of 105 di2 has dropped drastically over the past year, you can get one now for like 950USD, really tempting.
Interesting point - 105 comes with a Hyperglide cassette - easy upgrade is to fit the Hyperglide+ cassette (that comes on the Ultegra) to slicken up the rear shifting.
Always appreciate your insights, David, thank you. Great info w/ both pros/cons, and thoroughly, logically presented.
Glad it was helpful!
Great stuff David, really appreciate the closer look and comparison of key performance and weight.
Sure I'm not the only one hoping Shimano does a 180 and offers either or both groupsets in mechanical version. Can't imagine how fast existing Shimano mechanical stuff is being vacuumed up by bike manufacturers and enthusiasts
Incredibly informative video, a proper review this, thank you!
Great.. Thank you for sharing the info 🙂👍
I can't think of anything that would prevent one from running an 11-30 Ultegra cassette with the 105 rear derailleur. It's easier to go from a bigger low gear to a smaller low gear on the back after all.
I think the derailleur firmware needs to know your cassette size so it can work optimally and Shimano wont let you set it to anything smaller than 11-34. Purely artificial software limitation. Not sure how well it would shift with a 11-30 cassette with the wrong setting though. Hopefully someone tries it out.
@@viljamip FML, firmware on derailleurs limiting what cassette sizes you can use. Another reason to stay mechanical
afaik, the firmware is basically only for fully synchronized shifting, so it can help you find the best gears if you don't want to think about what chainring to be on @@viljamip
I’ll take R8000 11spd with rim at under $900 any day every day.
Thanks so much for this comparison !!
Excellent review David.. I’m still a Ultegra mechanical cyclist 🤩👍🚴
@david arthur Thanks for the review! Do you know if Ultegra front deraileur is compatible with the rest of a 105 groupset?
Hi David can you mix and match ie Ultegra front mec instend of 105 and same at the back to make a mullet gear set up i have done the same on my Giant 105 Hydro levers and just changed out the 105 to ultgra as i see fit to do so. ( cable gears)
Very good unbiased review. Not much difference between the two especially for the everyday cyclist. This has helped me decide which option i should take. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for this detailed review! But the most important news I get from you video is that I will stick to Ultegra (opposed to 105) should I ever convert from mechanical shifting, because some of the improvements (and I don't mean the 12th gear) are only available with Dura Ace and Ultegra. The price difference at online retailers isn't that significant to justify the extra weight and less features to go with 105.
E.g. if I understood it right, the improvement of the brakes didn't yet trickle down to 105 so why buy sth not as good as it could be and will probably be revised and updated during the next seasons to come.
Do you have to buy a full dura ace crankset just to get 54t/40t, or can you simply buy the dura ace chainrings and put them on the 8100 Ultegra cranks? I know BCD is the same, I'm worried about their fancy scalloping and if the two aren't interchangeable. It's odd I've not seen anyone clearly address this issue. I just want the new Ultegra 12 speed groupset with 54/40 gearing.
idk why but after trying the Ultegra di2, I feel like my 5800 will still live a long time lol.
or maybe I'm just not good enough to know the goods of Hyperglide+
If I have to go electric on my next bike then GRX di2 is sounding like a better option. Missing one for now is not that big of issue. Odds are cheaper too.
Hey mate, thanks for the review! Just wondering say you have a frameset already and a pool of money that would cover a group set and wheels. Do you think the £600 difference would go better into the wheels or the group set, eg, 105 + premium wheels or Ultegs + mid tier wheels? I’d say the weight savings for £600 might be the same on either build but what do you think would give you the best riding experience?
Cheers!
I'd say spend more on wheels or pocket the change
Best, non waffle comparison of both I’ve seen so far. Thank you and well done 👏
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great facts... thank you!
I'm currently riding on r7000 105 mechanical, and I don't see a compelling reason to switch to Di2 as long as replacement parts are available. 105 Di2 is not as expensive as Ultegra, but it's still expensive, and it's about 300g heavier than the mechanical version. The mechanical version shifts really well, and I can't imagine that it would be worth shelling out over twice as much money for marginally better performance. (I am kind of excited about the extra brake pad clearance, though.) When I'm eventually compelled to get an electronic groupset, which is probably inevitable, I'll probably go with SRAM; it's less expensive, more flexible across multiple disciplines, and, importantly, wireless.
I'm also running r7000 105 mechanical on a Allez Sprint and find it fantastic. I do however want to clean up the cables. So I'm researching on what the better upgrade would be in a year. SRAM red would be my go to if sale prices are available for the group set. I think Ultegra might be my 2nd option.
awesome video can you do one on 12 speed vs 11 speed differences soon please
Could you do a di2 hybrid. Maybe 105 levers, 105 calipers, ultegra rear derailleur, ultegra front mech, ultefra cassette, ultegra crankset. i.e save money on the levers but have best of both worlds? Or even have dura ace crankset and cassette to save some weight?
You forgot to mention the satellite shifters on Ultegra. As someone who rides on the hoods quite a lot this would be the deciding factor for me. But hopefully these will be on the next generation of 105 one day. By then I might be able to afford it.
If you ride on the hoods, why is satellite shifters the deciding factor?
@@DaveCM he is talking about the buttons on top of the hoods, not the sprint or climb satellite shift buttons you can add on your handlebars
So how does GRX RX815 Di2 compare to Ultegra and 105? Same as Ultegra, or front shifting the same as 105? I saw a video and the front shifter kinda sounded like 105.
What's the point in needing crazy fast front shifting? Does anyone actually use their front derailleur on the flat?
Can you get a 105 crank with a 52-36 ratio? I'm thinking of only buying the crank at possibly a 165 length because I'm short, but I am on Sensah and am not particularly interested in going back to shimano, I won't find a 12 speed 105 with single mount rimbrakes and mechanical shifting anyway.
Nov sram rival etap vs shimano 105 di2 😎
you don't need to make a comparison. SRAM rival is plastic junk
Hi, shimano 105 di2 working with Shimano Shimano Dura Ace Di2 Sw-r9150
Can we mix both, like 105 shifter and ultegra rear derrailler ??
Sadly, you forgot one difference - the shifters.
105 has longer battery life
Ultegra has the possibility of hard wire, satellite shifters and hidden top button
Furthermore, there are additional buttons on top of the Ultegra shifters which are not on 105. So if you want to control your Wahoo or Garmin with the shifters, you need at least Ultegra.
thank you. I go for sram rival with powermeter for 1300eur
What are those weights based on I wonder when you consider the gearing options are not the same. That front Ultegra mech would work with the 105 so get save some cash and get the quick shifting. In the real world, I doubt many would bother.
Have you seen the prices for a 54t dura ace chain ring? It blows me a way how much more they are charging for 1 extra tooth. Pay to go faster it seems...
How about a "should we upgrade to 12 speed from 11" video?
I wouldn't touch 105 Di2 with a ten-foot pole. 3kg and mountain bike gearing for the price of prev gen Ultegra Di2 is hard to swallow.
Ride 12% gravel / paved roads and the gearing works. Not everyone lives in the flats.
laughs in 11-48.
Can i use shimano 105 on s works sl7 and use it for road race?
I haven't been able to find anywhere that says if you can use the new Dura Ace chain rings on the 8100 Ultegra cranks. Surely you should be able to right? That would be a big disappointment if they weren't cross compatible. Thanks for the video David.
With the heavier disc braking components along with the new electronic shifting and battery's the manufacturers must really get creative on where to make the frame paper thin and reduce the added weight.
I been using mechanical 105 for almost a year , is it worth to upgrade to 105 di 2 . The new groups cost 1120$ in my country.
For me , having had so many bad groupsets for front shoifting, I will pay anything to have the best front shift on the market. I just wish campy could make comthing competitive!
On my way to the cafe, I need .0001% faster shifts and also to save the weight difference of the donut I'm going to get🤣🤣
What's cross-compatibility like? Sounds like 105 with a Ultegra FD is the way to go.
Great video. I live in flat area, so I use 12-25 casette, so sad I cannot use Di2 :) Thumbs up. Have a good day.
That ultegra front derailleur was hauling ass with those shifts lol..I thought it was going to throw the chain every time it shifted jsut by how fast and how much it was moving..
Just picked up Cannondale Synapse 105 Di2 - works great, love it
I'm wondering if you can use Ultegra front derailleur with 105 groupset.
I think it's possible.
I am strictly a recreational rider, not a racer, and I just bought (early 2024) a bike equipped with 105 Di2. By buying 105 (rather than Ultegra), I applied what I saved to purchase a much better wheelset, and I replaced the 105 11x34 cassette with an Ultegra 11x30 cassette. The 2/3 lb. (300 grams) weight difference between Ultegra and 105 doesn't matter much to me. I'll add that today's 105 Di2 shifts better than Ultegra Di2 from seven years ago (I have a 2017 bike with Ultegra Di2.) Finally, I've had no issues with compatibility of the Ultegra cassette with my 105 drivetrain.
guessing is a bike from canyon?
I have the older ulregra 11 speed and it works on my titanium framed biked with a mountain bike 40-11 cassette, it's not supposed to but it's fine
I think they did not do the right thing with the price point of 105 di2.. 105 used to be the groupset you could get to get the same gearing capabilities as ultegra/dura-ace, but at a weight penalty. And it was a fraction of the cost of dura-ace. Now, the price of 105 is more than double what it used to be, almost 3x as expensive.
Aswell as way more overweight
Every front chainset when i was a kid was 53/39. I have not been on one for a few years now. I really enjoy 50/34 with a 11/30 rear. Suits my needs well. Can still get a turn of speed on the flats, great for hill climbing! I have the Ultegra 11 speed set, its a delight to ride!
Hey, hope you don't me asking, this stuff is a bit new to me: 50/34 is considered compact? doesn't that mean for climbing purposes you'd want 11/32 or higher?
@@andrehendrik 50/34 is compact. its enought for the average club rider. 53/39 is what the pros ride. 11/32 will give you more range, but 11/30 should give you everything you need on the rear. Back in the late 1980's we only had 11/23 🙂
The new Cannondale supersix evo comes with 105 di2 and stock 11-30 cassette
Did you notice any difference in the noise? Some report that the motor is way louder with the 105 Di2?
Sounder awful TBH
That’s not the question I have. Are e-shifters worth the extra-money based on their cost vs benefits they provide vs. comparable mechanical shifters?
Based on my own experience of using both and the available peer reviewed empirical data (or more often lack there of) I would have to say no. The cost is just far to high for E-shifters for any real benefit gained.
I mean for the additional cost of E-shifters I could drop a new engine on my bike. LOL
Stating the obvious logic but helpful. I don’t think you can get a visual gear display in your Garmin or Karoo 2 cycle computer with the new 105. That’s half the fun and ease of pushing my hood buttons on the Ultegra dI2 12 speed. Love not having to look down to see what gear I’m in when I can see it on the screen. Not saying the 105 isn’t adequate for cycling. Everything Shimano makes is a quality product. I’ve owned Ultegra Manual 11 speed since 2006 and it still works perfectly. If you have the extra money invest it in the Ultegra. Never regret investing in quality bike gear. It’s a fitness hobby and nothing is more important than fitness. You won’t remember how much you spent years from now.
So basically, no difference. The bike industry is slowly becoming full of itself. These prices are atrocious. You can literally get a sweet motorcycle with vastly more parts and significantly more complex mechanical parts for the price of a bike with these groupsets.
Might be interesting to try the105 groupset with the hyperglide equipped ultegra cassette and chain
So could you put an 11/30 Ultegra Cassette on the 105
@@Carftymk yip on my old 11 speed cassettes certainly DA and Ultegra are interchangeable, I'd be surprised if the 3 off 12 speed versions aren't interchangeable.
Mechanically it will work of course, but programming your synchro shift points will show the wrong ratios (very minor detail though). Also, your head unit may not show the true number of teeth, but I'm not sure. I have the older generation Ultegra di2 R8000 with an 11-32 cassette which works perfectly even though Shimano spec says 11-30 max. My Garmin shows the correct number of teeth in every gear too. So go figure.
hiya, can you set-up sprint shifters on the 105 gruppo?
Unfortunately you can’t
Will a Ultegra 11-30 work with the 105?
Very informative in-depth video as usual.
Ultrgra all day long in my eyes 👀 👍🚴♂️
The noise of that 105 front mech is awful. Sounds like something's broken 🙉
Ultegra di2 100% ,got mechanical ultegra on my bike and it's lovely so know what to expect from di2 ultegra, in week time upgrading to di2 12 speed . So excited
Good content. Not rocket science but if you buy the 105 bits seperately and just get an Ultegra 11-30 cassette and front mech!!
Also, the Ultegra and Dura Ace have the "secret" third button, with which you can control your bike computer and swipe through pages. The 105 doesn't have that. It's a minor thing, but to some people this might matter, for convenience.
It is a minor thing but your right , I would want that myself for my Garmin 830 , I didn’t know that , thanks for the heads up 👍🏼
Weight difference between 105di2 and mechanical 105? Thanks
I picked up a sram force asx group and red crank (and cassette and chain) for less than the shimano 105
What percentage of road bikes are ever entered in an actual race?
Great breakdown, thank you. Ultegra for me. I go all the way back to Shimano 600. Cheers.
to me the front mech is some small detail and you could just upgrade to an uktegra but the 105 sti have no top buttons so you can't f-fly pages on your garmin without leting the brakes go plus there is no option for sprintshifters or tri bar shifters in the 105 sti. yes you could upgrade to ultegra but it is much more work and money to do so.
I'm diggn on that orro. How's that venturi treating you?
Venturi had to go back earlier than expected sadly, but hoping it'll return so I can film a review on it
@@davidarthur hard to get where I live. Very interested
Where can I buy the hat?
Working on some merch 👍
I bet you could use a 11-30 on 105. I have run various options that I am told I cant on my old Ultegra Di2
On a budget I'd avoid both.
Thank you for the excellent breakdown. But these groupsets are just MAMIL bait. The old purely mechanic groupsets shift excellent and are serviceable (moslty) at home. These new things just means more cost of ownership.
I think that that depends on the frame/handlebars, mechanical shifting is good with external cable routing but with internally routed cable can be iffy
I live in the rolling hills of Charlotte, NC. The gearing of these new bikes just doesn't suit me here. I have to use a really small cassette because of the riding groups here. I have Ultegra 11 speed mech ., and use a 11-25 cassette! I have a 52-36 front. Even this is overkill, and I can't really use the 36 much. This is with rolling hills! I average 19 mph plus to keep up on these rides. So i'll never need electric shifting, I guess.
Excellent information my friend!
In Japan, due to supply shortage, 105 is only 20% cheaper than Ultegra. I will just buy Ultegra in this case.
Poni made is that Shimano Technolgy always filters down to a lower group set over time. I firmly believe that today's 2023 105 is as good as 1995's Dura Aace
As far I know and I can find. There is not 11-28 option cassette in the new ultegra. Even shimano website doesn’t display it as a option.
So this is the 12 speed cassette where the last cogs are utterly useless, because they would give you speeds lower than walking.
I presume an 11 speed Tiagra will come out soon and will be a rebadged version of the previous 105. That'll be the new groupset of the people perhaps...2 x 11 is fine, I wouldn't worry about not having a 12 speed cassette.
I so hope so... Nearly all the bikes in my house are 11speed Shimano, and I don't want to go Di2, but getting hold of shifters is already getting hard, and they don't last forever/don't cope with crashing/ham fisted spannering.
@@hectorkidds9840 you can replace 105 shifters with Sensah Pro Team. They're compatible and very good quality now.
@@belverticale I'll let others be the early adopters but thanks and I'll keep an eye on what's going on in this space.
In my opinion "on budget" and 1.7k groupset are orthogonal. Still can't digest it. Nevertheless, I do get the fact that 105 is still cheaper than Ultegra
I won't be switching to 12-Speed. Sorry, Shimano and SRAM. I also enjoy my 53/39 chainrings and my 11-32 cassette for all my riding. Even for large steep hills I don't really need anything outside that range.. A 34 tooth cog (especially anything beyond that) would feel kinda awkward for anything but the steepest of steep climbs. I guarantee I'd change the teeth if I lived where there were mountains and loved to climb them on a bike, but 11 speed has me covered either way.
Damn I have some fairly deep pocket but big weight as well 😅😅 ill just buy 105 Di2 and thats probably gonna be the best option for me. I can do the bling bling thing on the car that my bike hooks on 😅😅
Just looked it up on my favourite e-shop. Real world price difference Ultegra di2 vs 105 di2 is 190 euros. I’d say a no brainer.
Is this the new ultegra though with the better front mech? This may be old stock vs new 105!
@@Chimpy_Mc_Gibbon Come on now. It was 8170 12-speed. The choice is easier actually, both Ultegra and 105 di2-s stated Out Of Stock with no availability given. Get what You can get I guess… 🤷🏻♂️😅
why does the new electric 105 even exist? Seems like a joke.
It's called progress. If you want mechanical buy Tiagra.
Why wouldn’t you be able to use an 11/30 cassette with the 105 rear mech?
Because Shimano has designed it that way, with the long cage rear mech designed for larger cassettes. I'm sure somebody will try it but that's the official line
anybody but a 30 cassette in the 105? was it ok?
I run ultegra 11-30 cassette it works perfect
Call me old or what but i think i still like a mechanical groupset than electronic , i hope in the future shimano / sram still produce mechanical groupset
You're not the only one here, I'm mechanical-biased too. I've actually ridden with Ultegra Di2 R8070 before and can actually live without it.
Still hapy with my tiagra groupset
Having never used Di2 why have they changed the shifter leavers from the standard Shimano (mechanical) standard that everyone is used to (brake leaver to go up a gear and smaller leaver, behind, to go down a gear)? Those 2 gear leaver controls, look very small and close to each other (especially when wearing full gloves in the winter)
It's not so hard to differentiate the two buttons, I've ridden with Ultegra Di2 R8070 (third-gen Di2) before.
The Di2 has always been like that since its inception. They probably did it to keep from accidentally shifting while braking. I had to stop myself of my habit of riding with my fingers covering the shift levers when I went to electronic because I would accidentally shift at times just by hitting a pothole or bad bump.
@@DaveCM Yeah, that makes sense. With mechanical it's more of a definite action, a push of the lever, rather than a button press.
Went from mechanical ultegra to ultegra DI2 No going back.
I see no reason you can't run an 11 28 or 11 30 cassette. The issue was always, can the rear derailleur cope with more teeth not less. Maybe you can explain why Shimano says it's not designed to run less than 34 teeth.
feels like artificial market segmentation. Shimano trying to protect ultregra and dura ace sales
@@mechy2k2000 my thoughts entirely
I think the problem might be that the software won’t recognise the smaller cassette. Artificial limitations, in other words
On its own, 105 Di2 is just not cheap enough to warrant some of its drawbacks. To me, it will depend on the price of the 2023/24 bikes.
Ultegra Di2 bikes can be bought for as low as 3.399€ and there were even some sales for 2700€.
To compete, 105 should land at 2999€, but somehow I doubt this.
They should have called it "Ultegra Sport" or something. There is so little price difference between the two that it makes more sense to go with Ultegra if the budget allows, which just seems crazy.
@@davekashuba4730 iPad school of marketing. Oh but if you spend a little more you get this one!
1 year later it's more than possible to get a 105 Di2 bike for under 2999euro. I just built up a gravel bike with a carbon frame and wheels, along with shimano 105 Di2 for 3500cad/2383euro. Could probably knock another 500cad off that price if I went with some other more budget parts like saddle, handlebars, etc.
i use my 105 - unplugged version since 10 years - without any damage.
105 Unplugged, I like that :)
Isn’t the front mech of the 105 based on the old Ultegra.... why would you buy a heavy out dated technology.???
105 without a pricecut won't sell
No mention of the fact that the 105 shifters don't have the top buttons or that they don't accept satellite shifters? Pretty major differences