SRAM Rival eTap v Shimano 105 Di2 Head To Head: Shifting Speed, Braking Distance Comparison
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- Опубликовано: 25 июл 2024
- This is the battle of the most affordable third their electronic groupsets. The brand new Shimano 105 Di2 up against SRAM Rival eTap AXS. Through a detailed comparison test involving braking distance challenges, shifting speed analysis and much more, I've ranked each groupset across a range of key metrics to find the one winner
Shimano 105 Di2 review • Shimano 105 Di2 First ...
SRAM Rival eTap review • SRAM Rival eTap AXS Re...
Ultegra Di2 v 105 Di2 • Is Shimano 105 Di2 Rea...
Content
00:00 Intro
00:45 Looks
1:26 Electronic wizardy
2:35 Shifting Speed
3:16 Changing gears
4:10 Ergonomics
4:37 Gearing options
5:56 Braking Distance Test
6:46 Power Meter
7:10 Customisation
7:45 Weight
8:18 Price
9:42 And the winner is…
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I just bought bike with Sram rival for my wife. It's her first road bike and I put the shifting in sequential mode. Now she doesn't need to deal with front mech at all. You have 15 gear trough whole range just up and down. I think this mode and nice gearing are the perfect combination for the beginners.
Yeah just tell her to be careful, sometimes you don't expect the front mech to change and it does. Could make you lose control
@@Megadeth6633 i tried it and for now you almost dont feel the shift only the sound is different. I will put chain catcher on and of she goes 😅
@@Flexo_l if you're grinding off the saddle you'll feel it alright 🙏😂
Shimano can do the same.
@@gijsnooteboom2711but you cant buy one yet with 105 di2
I’ve always ridden Shimano until I bought my Trek Checkpoint SL6 with Sram ETap and for me I can’t really fault it (apart from the weight). Great review again David. 👌
Hats of to you David, love your content and this comparison vid is just perfect imo, congrats!
Thanks 😎👍
David - well done for coming down strongly on one side rather than fence-sitting, especially as the newer product lost in your comparison.
I started with SRAM and have it on 2 bikes (various combos of Force and Red, with a mullet on my gravel bike). I like the ecosystem - from the app to the wide variety interchangeable parts (i switch out 1x and 2x and various other components frequently enough to care) - and the incredibly intuitive shifting method. Also the fully wireless set up is just easier to live with, and I charge so many gadgets on a daily basis that I automatically charge at least one SRAM battery each week. I recently got a year-old road bike that came with Shimano Ultegra Di2 11-speed, and I’d say it wins on shifting smoothness and speed, and I love the buttons on the end of the hoods - which I’ve mapped to change pages on my Garmin head unit.
If I had to choose, it would be SRAM FTW, but they are both a joy to use.
Thanks Dave - a great practical review. One thing you didn’t mention though - was Shimano’s delinking of their DI2 systems to Hammerhead Karoo units. I have a Wahoo Elemnt but will seriously consider the Karoo when I have to replace, and ideally want a group set that it integrates with. So - SRAM comparability also better then 105 methinks
Compatibility, not comparability.
I'm looking at several Trek bikes that offer SRAM eTap groups sets. Another video described the ease of mixing and matching SRAMs wireless components which to me is super important for customization. In the past I never considered electronic shifting due to the high cost (especially of DI2) but with the low cost, great performance and ease of customizing, SRAM is the winner.
I build my Specialized Allez Sprint with 105 Di2. It is an amazing groupset. I have another bike with Regular 105 and the breaking performance increase is really amazing.
For those who like the SRAM "left up" right down" shifting- I too think that this is better - thats why I did configuire my di2 to do the same. If then full syncro shift is used you only need the two leavers. But I like shifting the front by myself which is why is also set front down left and front up right. Easy with the app
Thanks for this video. Been trying to get my head around the differences, as my next bike will more than likely be equipped with 105 Di2 or Sram Rival etap (if the supply issues that have plagued us ease ever so slightly that is). All my previous bikes have had Shimano in one form or another, and I know no one who uses Sram, so videos like this help a lot.
Glad to help!
I rode Shimano for decades (since the mid-'70's) and converted my road bike to SRAM around 2010, just to try it out. Now all of my bikes are SRAM. Not saying SRAM is superior, but I just prefer the way that the SRAM manual shifters work and wanted one consistent system across all my bikes. I just replaced my road bike and of course I got SRAM Force eTap on my new bike. TBH, both systems are great, you really can't go wrong either way.
I hate to say it but I was a Shimano fanboy since about 1990. I bought my first SRAM (with electronic) about 4 and half years ago because I didn't like the way Shimano electronic worked after riding a rental with Di2. Then I bought a gravel bike and wanted 1x and SRAM was the only option. Well,...uh...time for a new gravel bike and I'm not really even considering Shimano. Side note: I do still have a bike with Shimano and it works great. So, it isn't like I've forgotten how it works.
@@dperreno Thanks! Good to know the thoughts of users as well. Appreciate the message.
Well... Toughts of experience users are that for that money you have plenty of other and better options. Unless you're hipster in bike world (read... Dumb).
Informative review. 🙏. The prices and weight of their groupsets is utterly insane, I had no idea. Crazy money and very heavy! Currently have a mix of FSA slx crank, ultegra and 10 year old 105 shifters 10speed mechanical looking for sensible light upgrade.
Check out the sensah stuff if you’re mechanically handy
Great vid by the way!
👍
Keep up the good work!
Thanks Max
Great review, thanks for that!
Very informative and really can’t argue with much at all.
hi david, great video and comparison between the two. i realize your comparison was for road use, but in 1x mode and with the XPLR rear mech and cassette, you can have a pretty amazing all-road/gravel bike groupset as well. i run this on my cervelo aspero with a 10-44 rear cassette and it has been surprisingly flawless - historically i have never liked SRAM products at all. i came from a GRX 810 groupset and while the ergonomics are better on the GRX (this is obviously a very subjective topic), for me, the Rival hoods are really not terrible and the shifting is just flawless, every time. i do hate being tied to making sure i have battery power before heading out on a ride, but with lights and a wahoo on board as well, it's not much extra stuff to deal with.
one additional item to add to your video is maintenance - i find bleeding shimano brakes way nicer and easier than SRAM - it took a lot of bleeds of my Rival brakes to finally get a decent lever feel. also, ditching the stock organic pads in favor of some semi-metallic pads made a HUGE difference in brake feel - they now feel almost as good as the GRX brakes.
i also love the customization and integration - like how i can display the gear selected on my wahoo display - together with left/downshift and right/upshift, it's kind of like shifting with the paddles in my DSG-equipped VW Golf R. :)
Having ridden with rival axs levers and now the new ultegra levers, I prefer the ergonomics of shimano but the shifting of sram is my preference. Also gotta facter in sram's mix n match. Shimano needs to bring in a new grx di2 to compete with sram's eagle and xplr line
100% agree!!! Shimano needs a GRX Di2 12v
Great stuff David as usual!👍🏻👏🏻
Glad you enjoyed it
Great comparison video & very informative with lots of useful information 👍🚴♂️👍🚴♂️
David - great job as usual! I bought, with confidence, my Trek Domane with Rival solely on your Rival review several months ago. You didn't steer me wrong as it's clear to me at least that Rival is the best option at this price point! I couldn't be happier with the groupset.
Thanks Coram 👍
I just bought the same bike. LOVE IT! Though, I waxed the chain and either I didn’t do that right or Rival doesn’t like wax, but the shifting completely changed and now it’s noisy as hell. I don’t understand how waxing your chain could do such a thing, but it did. I have to fix that somehow.
Great video though David. Nice job as usual.
@@MBdrummer3288 This is a known thing with SRAM, the chain is noisier than Shimano, especially when using wax.
@@simon1cz is that right? It’s so freaking noisy I can’t stand it. Can you recommend a lubricant? I would appreciate it very much.
Use Shimano chain if you want quieter SRAM
Fantastic review David! It's helped me decide to go for Sram now. Can't wait👏👏👏
Thanks for the review! For the disc brake stopping distance test, tires and total system weight should be factored.
I haven't finished the video, but where my SRAM Rival group definitely loses for me is the ease in removing the crankset. I bought the Quarq power meter shortly after buying my Roubaix and the install was a piece of cake, the crank came off very easily........ the first time. Now, when my power meter started acting up and I was needing to send it back to SRAM, I couldn't get the crank off again to save my life and to this day I haven't attempted it again. And I didn't torque the bolt either, just snug with a light pull of my pipe-extended socket wrench. I'm just glad the the problem I was having with the power meter crank arm solved itself and hasn't crept up again so no need to send the crank arm back to SRAM. My theory was the update to the firmware was what caused the problem(it wasn't displaying power, just cadence).
But I just LOVE my electronic shifting! It's totally unnecessary, but now that I've ridden nearly 1500 miles with it. I'll never go back to mechanical shifting.
Now the braking test to me was a wash and should have been declared a draw because the difference was only inches.
Thanks for sharing this comparison David!
Just ordered a BMC urs two with Etap rival axs, never had electronic looking forward to it arriving today!
I have 2 Ultrgra Di2 bikes , but, when I built a new bike this year I went for Sram for the reasons you state. I find it interesting that My Sram Rival shifts the rear mech better than the Ultegra,but, the Ultegra shifts the front better and since you shift the cassette more.......
I‘ve been firmly in the Shimano camp to date. But I found your review pretty convincing, especially in the areas of gearing options. The one thing I‘d love to learn about is reliability. I seem to remember that some folks had troubles setting up their Sram „systems“, chainline and such. Is there anyone here that can comment?
Hi dave thanks for this video, looking at choosing a new road bike and your groupset comparisons are very helpful. In your speed test both groupsets were in default shifting mode, can you increase the speed of the shifting on both groupsets, could possibly change the end result? Id also be interested in the front mech speed.
It could be confirmation bias but the winner SRAM is the one I’d have backed based on the separate reviews. In fact, I’d made up my mind for my final choice next bike to be SRAM equipped. This side-by-side video was the exact video to back that up. Thanks
I'm ordering a bike with Rival AXS, the main attraction for me was price of the bike and the range of gearing. Will be set up with a 10-36 cassette on the back and a 46-33 on the front. That's going to give me great range for climbing the hills in my area.
I've had Shimano groupsets prior to this and I'm looking forward to trying SRAM.
Spot on review.... I have Rival on my Vitus and have been enjoying it. Have 105 mechanical on my Colnago and have ordered 105 Di2.... Love Shimano ergonomics
As an old school racer from the 1970s, while i love the innovation today equipment and kit costs just boggle my mind. I bought a used specialized roubaix carbon 2011 in 2019 … by the time i got it the way i like it cost Cdn $1500. Nicer than my 1970 Cinelli B with fully Campy and shifters on the downtubes. It would be fine with me to still ride a good steel or aluminum frame with downtube shifters. I do enjoy the shimano ultegra shifters a lot more, but i would not lose sleep over them ( unless i were a racer). In the days of ancient history we used tubular tires… expensive, way more flats, but fast and easy to change. Now i have 700x25 beaded tires on 21 mm rims ( 2 sets). Some tires pop right on easily and perfect. My fast tires the continental gps 5000 for some reason are a bugger to seat properly. I have tried several of them… lots of up and down wobbles unless mounted with soap and water. Hardly ideal for changing a flat on the road…in fact i usually carry a spare clunker tire just in case. I guess the solution is disc thru axle TUBELESS with sealant. Now i just need to win the lottery to pay for it all. The reality is cycling was barely affordable in the 1970s for a junior rider in a middle class family….tell me what middle class family can splash out $5 or $10k for a kid’s bike and related stuff… ps i bought almost all of my own stuff. Thanks for reading
Thanks for the this great video, looking to get a brand new Ribble CGR Sl with electronic, from an old 10 speed campag veloce bike.
Always had Sram in my head as one i wanted until 105 DI2 came out.
Thanks David for this comparison, just what i wanted to see! It's kind of hard to believe how hard Shimano dropped the ball with their 105 Di2 groupset, compared to their main competitor which has had their product on market for over a year already. I expected them to be on-par price wise at least.
Tons of fair points, thanks for giving a side-by-side look! I agree that SRAM is probably the best choice for most “average” consumers.
As a note, the two sections that I think might have been missing in a proper look for me were shifting speed and braking.
I’m not worried so much about how fast I can get up/down my entire cassette but how fast things communicate between pressing a button and having the derailleur react. Both are obviously very quick, but I know Shimano’s fully wired system wins out - I’d be curious what their semi-wireless is like. One thing about needing to press both SRAM buttons for shifting the front mech is that it takes just a fraction of a second longer (perhaps as the components wait to see if the other registers tos hift the front mech vs just moving up or down the rear).
For braking, four inches difference seems fairly negligble, but braking feel (modulation, bite point adjustment, etc.) is way more important. SRAM might still win out here, but I’d be more interested in seeing a comparison of those rather than just full stop power.
bang on about response time on shifting! still on older shimano ultegra derailleurs... the front gets a bit tricky at time.. the back seems easier. would love to try the new tech.
Braking distance will be greatly effected by the weight of the bike as well. If the Shimano bike is heavier, it is at a disadvantage to begin with.
I was initially put off Rival by the weight but it was all that was available when I got my SL7. I’m now a bit of a fan…the lever set up is great and I much prefer the removable batteries and true wireless configuration. The app is good too. I have had some issues with chain drop on front mech but not very frequently. The power meter option is great!
Only worthwhile upgrade on Rival for me would be change the crank to Red. That’s where most of the weight saving is. The rest of the weight savings are not value for money.
@@mf0u3021 for sure...either change the crank definitely and/or the cassette..and it's pretty darn close then
I just ordered a complete SRAM Force AXS Disc groupset, for less than the new 105 Di2. Shimano is pricing its products at a premium, because they are popular, but I don't think it's worth it. SRAM FTW for me.
i mean yeah a groupset that is out for a couple of years will get discounted more often
David Arthur with the hot take on SRAM vs Shimano. Going to ruffle some feathers with this comparison. But, I happen to agree with your points on almost all accounts. Great review!
Thanks JM glad you enjoyed it :)
I also happen to agree on all points made. And I don’t even like the channel that much. Lol.
you don't even like the channel that much? What's wrong with you man! ;)
Another point to Sram is they include a clutch on their road mechs (mechanical on Rival and Fluid on Force and Red).
This makes more viable conversions to 1 X and gravel bikes!
@@konigsegg_1to1 105 doesn't have clutch only GRX has it
Very good point Max I should have mentioned that
Good all-in-all review! I think the rival is now the groupset of the people given all the factors listed but specifically the price and gearing range. Also interesting how Shimano does not even come close to Sram when it comes to mtb.
shimano's mtb groupsets do shift way cleaner than eagle
Very thorough!
I choose scram rival for my new bike. The reasons were it's easy to go to a one by and you can mix and match. When Shimano launched 105di2 with no rim brake option and only 2 granny cassettes I was out. It's sad I had to go to disc brakes, but I don't think they slow me down
Thank you for clarification. 🎉
Recently bought my first SRAM AXS bike. LOVE IT.
Recently I made pancakes... Love them as well.
@@JanKowalski-pe9lo So how did they shift into your mouth? Was it smooth?😄
@@JanKowalski-pe9lo Recently went down the slide at my local park... Love slides more than you two love pancakes and SRAM AXS.
Great review by the way
Really enjoyed this video.
I slowly stopped using Di2 and EPS over the last few years because I found AXS much easier to live with. More time riding les time doing everything else. If you have these bikes for a while, it would be great to hear your perspective how they are in a few months or even a year. How much maintenance are they needing? What does braking performance look like then? Are they still roughly equal? Has wear affected front or rear shifting performance? Are your initial impressions still holding?
Exactly, a lot of my club members bikes are either in the shop for repairs or in need of maintenance the owners can't do. The maintenance on my bike is easy and DIY, spares are affordable and easy to get, I have a good supply of them in my garage.
I went with SRAM about four years ago because the first bike I ever rode with electronic shifting was Shimano. It was a rental in CA and I rode it in the mountains. When I was really bonked, I kept hitting the wrong buttons as they were just too close together for my fat fingers combined with my no longer fully functional brain. Granted, muscle memory of owning the groupset may take care of that, but it made the decision for me to buy SRAM even though I've been a Shimano diehard since about 1990. The two button for electronic just makes more sense to me.
You can program Shimano to do that easily on computer.
@@pilikiosuafoa1727 yes. I am very aware of that fact now you can. At the time, you could not. I still prefer the larger paddles on SRAM.
Great video. A very comprehensive comparison. I thought it would be a bit closer call than it was, but hard to dispute your points. I have Ultegra Di2 and SRAM Force AXS bikes and I like both systems. My general view is SRAM is more innovative and offers greater flexibility, but I find the Di2 shifting performance and feel is smoother and seems a bit faster to me. My main complaint about Shimano is how it tries to limit your ability to mix and match components whereas SRAM almost encourages it. The one factor that you didn’t discuss is warranty/customer service/durability. I’ve never had any issue with any Shimano component that I have owned, but I have heard SRAM’s quality control isn’t quite as good.
Sram is also a lot harder to bleed the brakes (bike shop mechanic?
I like the single paddle for shifting and the left side shifting down and the right up for the Sram much better. I also like being able to bring the batteries inside to charge in the winter. New bike cost with SRAM does seem to be more though on average.
Please test the 105 Di2 11-36 on the Ultegra R8100. We need this to work in order to get anywhere close to the SRAM's low gear.
My new bike (Specialized Aethos) has the Rival AXS, and I really like its intuitive shifting system. That said, I find the front shifting (upon which you did not comment) has an annoying lag. I actually have to initiate the shift a couple of seconds before when I actually want it to happen. I’ve also found that I need to use the “ micro-adjust” feature for the rear mech more frequently than I’d like. I do, however, really like the gearing options available on the SRAM.
Which Atheos was it the comp version pro or expert ? Be interesting to hear the weight
Great content thanks, how would campag chorus compare to these?
Never have had an SRAM bike until these year, a Rival one. Shimano bikes since before Shimano 600 which became Ultegra, there were even "Shimano 600 Ultegra" parts for a while. Had 105, Ultegra 6000, Ultegra 8000.
What I liked the most about SRAM was the wireless thing and the interchangeable batteries, specially me that I even forget to charge my phone. I have been close to running out of battery for the rear and just swapped batteries between the front and the rear, I do very few front shifts specially with 10/36 and 46/33.
Shimano mechanical in my case is flawless and maintenance free never needed big adjustments only a click or two on the barrels. In the MTB I have snapped a couple of cables but on the road bike almost maintenance free including the rim brakes.
SRAM some difficulty when shifting from 10 t0 11 sprocket that is not perfect even with microadjust. And in a few months I have had to replace brake pads, disks are much more maintenance demanding than rim brakes. With rim brakes I have gone years with the same brake pads not the same with discs both MTB and road.
Gear selection (not weight) should be the number one factor in group selection for amateur cyclist...For SRAM to offer a 30 chainring and a 36 cassette combination seals the deal for any cyclist who would consider climbing..
I don’t think they are that far apart, in fact I think it comes down to personal needs. I’m about to build a bike with axs rival because of the gear options and the small saving but I think both options are a solid value for money option for recreational/ amateur cyclist like myself!
great review. If poss AXS vs Grx would be fab :)
Hi David. Did you missed out the usage hours & charging time which is quite crucial??
Most important factor for me - do you want to have to plug in your bike once every few days or once every 6 months!
I'm with you David on each category those would be my exact choices. I find SRAM better for having low noise under braking and more clearance so less pinging. I don't know about the new 105 my GRX brakes ping a lot when riding just riding through a puddle. GRX feels a lot more powerful than Force. Nothing is perfect and I'd take the SRAM all day long over Shimano.
Yeah true... You have to remember that Shimano jockey wheels smells worse than Sram as well.
Great review as usual, David! Btw, do you have battery longevity comparison for both the groupsets? Thx
Thanks! Tricky to do battery tests because it obviously depends on usage. Going on manufacturer claims Di2 lasts longer but I, just like computers and phones, charge them on a regular basis rather than let them run near empty so sort of negates the differences a little
Now the biggest question is i want a sram rival fd and rd. For my tt bike which has 55-39 chain rings. Will sram rival program be compatible or is it only compatible for smaller chainrings?
I have an S-Works Atheos frame with Sram Force group set with a power meter that I never knew I needed till got one. Right now the bike is around 6.8 kgs if I take or a few bits off, Garmin mount a tiny rear Blinky lite. I had Sram Force on my Specialized SL6 Tarmac, it's easy you set it to sequential and go plus it keeps you in the big ring longer and if I make space on my bike computer screen it'll show which gear I'm in. I'm a 66 year old retired Boilermaker if I can figure out the app it's pretty easy.
David - just a quick point on the braking; an aero bike like the orro will always stop slower than a climbing bike, seeing as it has less aero resistance and usually more weight; it seems unfair to compare the 2 braking systems on 2 vastly different frames.
I'm being straight with you. Sometimes I have a bit of a dig and I can be a bit sarcastic but overall I really do enjoy your channel and I appreciate the work that you put in. At nearly 70 years of age I'm no racer but I do appreciate the vids. Especially enjoy the sportive/audax/ road rather than racing bikes. Thanks again.
Thanks Dennis that means a lot :)
Nice take David this one was very expected... do we have one of this about SRAM Rival e Tap AXS against a Shimano GRX Di2? ... and then how about a GRX hybrid to a 105 Di2 ... I see this can could and is maybe happening for up coming bikes a gravel bike GRX /105 Di2 ... did you spot any? can you find one? build one? test one? cheers. keep delivering.
A Rival XPLR vs Shimano GRX would be a good one to do, as soon as I next get two bikes with these groupsets on I will shoot that
You didn't mentioned that Di2 doesn't work on Karoo Hammerhead because of "private" ANT+ protocol (and god knows what they're going to do in the future about other manufacturers) whereas Sram uses "normal" ANT+ which works for everyone. So another advantage for Sram.
Just got Sram Rival on my allied echo.... and I'm loving it!
I was looking into the Echo...how do you like it? I was weighing the options between that and the new Time ADHX. Very similar geometries
@@kellrockets101 I love it so far... feels fast and stable decesnding. a little heavy with the wheels it came with, but im gonna switch them soon. I was looking at the time as well.. i dont think you can go wrong either way
Nothing to compare to yet as I just ordered a Cannondale Supersix EVO with eTap Rival. I have nothing against Shimano but have been riding SRAM for nearly 15 years or better. Started out with Shimano and was okay with no complaints. I like the intuitiveness of SRAM over Shimano but time will tell with me going to two things since riding a 12 year old road bike with mech drivetrain.......1) Disc brakes; 2) electronic shifting. Only one is truly wireless from my understanding and that is SRAM. But I could ride either I am sure and be just fine.
That said........great video and explanation my friend! I love your videos!
Love the video. Although i would like to know more about the braking modulation. The comparison results for braking power seems abit unfair since the tcr with enve wheels and tyres are at least a kilo lighter than the orro. I think both are similar enough in outright brake power but modulation is traditionally better with sram so i would be interested to hear you opinion
@@bikerjk1205
As a professional mechanic, unfortunately the opposite is more to the point.
I have more customers with problematic Shimano disc brake issues, than Sram.
Something no one seems to be talking about is the total cost of ownership. SRAM cassetts and chains look expensive. Their system also looks incompatible with most third party parts. From what I have seen SRAM has a better app and easier setup however.
6.46
Correct that you CANT easily update the crankset on the new 105 di2 with 4iii power meter???
I've just ordered a Dolan with 105 Di2, I've not ridden a bike with electric shifting so I'm just looking forward to embracing the change from 12 year old 105!
What about Stamina of chains, cassettes and so on?
What about reliabilty oft el. System?
How long do batteries last?
What about sparepart prices and availability?
🤫
I dont know up or down nearly on a road bike. Looking at a Ridley grifn allroad with 105 group set and Shimano RS171 DB wheels. It is any good for a new cyclist?
What Scott Bike is that in the video? I love the paint on it.
It would be good to have the same comparison for Sram Force and Shimano Ultegra Di2 12 Speed. Searching on youtube I could only find one in Indonesian, I think, or one done 2 years ago when the 12sp Di2 was not available.
Personally I would go Rival with a Red crankset. Get the lightweight bling crank, save money on the rest and still have a lighter/cheaper groupset than Force.
I did exactly this on my new Aethos Comp. Sram etap is a great shifting product. Also (off topic) swapped the wheels for new Alpinist CL ll. Love my new bike and went from a Shimano fan for decades to a Sram stan.
Great comparison. Thanks. I also missed modulation of the brakes. I hear that Shimano disc brakes are a little bit better (less brake rub) but the disc rotors of Shimano are worse. I wonder if disc rotors are a point of improvement because rotors are often too light and easily distorted by heat (leading to brake rubbing). I am very pleased with my Sram Red and Force AXS bikes. I like the system a lot. I expect that the hood shape of Rival will be introduced to Red and Force in the future and that would be great. I do think the 10 gear is a bit of a miss. I would rather have a 18 in stead of a 10. I hope that Sram will bring better cassettes with 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 19, 21, 24, 27, 30, 33. or 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, 24, 27, 30 or 12, 13, 14, 15, 16,17, 19, 21, 24, 26, 28, 30. Just my two cents.
Barts, please correct me if I am wrong: I heard the old 11speed Shimano road disc brakes had this rubbing problems because they were build to narrow. And I heard they improved with their 12s groupsets. But I didn't heard about SRAM brakes. Do they have the same problem in a similar intensity?
Cassettes: To be honest I don't understand the cassettes you want.
- You miss out on the 16t sproket and instead want an 18t sprocket?
- The smaller jumps near the bigger sprockets of the cassette mess with the equal steps in gear ratio changes AND how we as humans feel these changes in gear ratio. I'm sure such a cassette would be worse. What's your reason for these smaller jumps?
- I understand that some people don't want to have the 10t sprocket because of marginal gains in drivetrain efficiency. Perhaps this could be a nice idea for SRAM Red or Force groupsets - for pros and semi-pros? But the groupset of the people benefits more from a wider gear range. But choice is always good as a customer.
@@gs78798 You are right. I would like to have a 16 in stead of an 18. I will correct this. I would love to see more climbing cassettes that have less big jumps on the sprockets. I often had the problem on climbs that 28 was a bit too hard for my liking and 32 was way to easy. A 30 sprocket in between would have been nice. The 10 tooth sprocket is too small. I don't use it. I would rather have a 16 sprocket. I believe the 12 speed Shimano groupsets have better disc brakes because the pads are a little bit further away from the rotor. This makes the brakes less sensitive for brake rub.
Good review. However, you mention the option of having blips as a boon for SRAM, but that is only possible from the Force level and up.
SRAM now offers wireless blips which can be used with Rival www.sram.com/en/sram/models/ec-blip-b1
David, I wonder how cheaply we could upgrade an existing bike to Scram Rivel eTap. I have a Synapse with ultega mechanical and hydrolic disc brakes. I assuming the disc brake calipers would be ok to keep as would my absolute black oval chainrings. So could I buy just the front and rear mech, rear cassette, chain & shifters or an I missing something?
I’m afraid mixing different components just doesn’t work, it’s a complete new groupset including the brake callipers. Chainrings ‘might’ be okay
Does SRAM still have issues with break pistons hanging and a tiny gap between brake pads and rotors?
Older Shimano Di2 groupsets I
Can adjust shifting offset on the fly with a button on splitter box . for example When I crash or change wheelset with different cassete , can I adjust shift offset on any of new groupsets without iphone app?
I feel the braking distance test isn't done fairly because the group set are not mounted on the same bicycle frame. Different bicycle frame have different riding characteristic. To me at least if you want to do a fair comparison, everything right down to the wheel set has to be equal. But nevertheless I know it is not always possible because the bikes could be yours and you're not sponsored. But thanks for taking time to do these comparison review.
How performance of the brakes can be compared if they are installed on two different bikes?
Sram Rival is the winner for me. Love the improved gear options but don't like the extra 200 grams. To compensate a bit I'd use a lighter cassette like the Force cassette 10-33. Even with a little more expensive cassette is still going to be cheaper than the Shimano group set.
Took a spin on a bike I was interested in yesterday and one of my takeaways was I am not interested in Di2. The buttons were horrible! I could barely tell which is which, I can't imagine what that will be like when I'm wearing thick gloves! I really wanted to like it for the longer battery life and using an HG freehub, but it was a solid no.
I just want a good modern bike with mechanical shifting.
Is the Shimano switchable to 1X configuration?
I've a Canyon Grail with the AXS with only one 40T chainring (10-44 in the back)... the good thing is that It's up to me to buy a 2X chainring and a front derailleur and switch the entire configuration to 2X without loosing any component I already have.
In my opinion this is very important.
I have both shimano ultegra and sram red with power meters. I prefer SRAM for the shifting on drop and SRAM on the looks. If I buy a next bike, it will definitely be on SRAM again. Only thing I don’t like is the weight penalty on SRAM. Hopefully they fix that in the next version!
@@SixSioux yeah sram looks awful
bought canyon ultimate sl7 axs cant wait to ride delivery is tomorrow😊
I found your analysis to be more objective, David. I noted a lot of measurable metrics involved in your commentary. And while I do love SRAM, I have spoken to multiple eTap users who have complained of ongoing front mech issues. At least at the SRAM Force level. Because of that; I have shied away from SRAM and have gravitated much more towards Shimano relative to electronic groupsets. I wonder; have you had any performance or functional issues with your front SRAM mech? Have you heard any similar complaints regarding its overall quality?
As always, thank you for your excellent content 🙂
I bought a bike with eTap Rival AXS last October and now have ridden about 1,600 km. The front derailleur has dropped the chain four times, and the experience is quite disturbing because you basically have stop to fix the issue: shifting FD just throws the chain ”over the top” of both chainrings. I don’t know if that is often or rarely, I have nothing to compare to. Previously I had mechanical 105 from year 2010 so it was a very different system. However, when using mechanical you can better control the movement of the FD and get the chain back on by adjusting the movement just marginally. Otherwise I really like AXS and wouldn’t change back. Maybe some day I will change to the new Ultegra Di2, somehow it looks interesting and maybe a bargain in its own category. But I also like the modularity of the AXS which is a major benefit and simplifies consideration of what can be combined with what. The Rival’s very cheap power meter also was a major factor for me.
Thanks for the video, David. Some day maybe make a comparison between the Sidi Shot 2 and the S-Works Torch? I’m just looking for new shoes 😄
Aren't 10 cogs super inefficient for speed tho? Or why did they use to make groupsets with like 13-14 smallest cogs in the standard crank years? I have an ultegra 6600 equipped bike and the limit literally can't be set to work well with an 11-28 so I have a 13-30 which works somewhat well although the 30 is slightly rubbing when powering uphill (stock rear was like a 14-25 I think but I'm waay top weak for that)
What is the name of the bike with the rival ?
Strange that the test does not cover battery life. A Shimano battery last as least 4 times longer than a Sram. Also mechanical noise from the drivechain is a nightmare from most Sram products. I have use a long time to trim and optimize the mech on my wifes Sram Force. There is also a quite log delay on Sram, from the time you shift on the leaver to the mechs are moving. A extra feature that 105 doe's not have but who is on Ultegra and DuraAce, is the buttons on top of the shifters, allowing you to f.ex. change screen on your computer without taking your hands from the bar.
is there an eTap AXS Version for a rim brake setup?
I switched from mechanical 105 R7000 to SRAM eTap AXS (mix of Force and Rival parts). I had high hopes for 105 Di2 but they let me down with price, gearing options and no power meter. I hope at the very least, Shimano expands gearing options for Ultegra and 105 because SRAM is eating their lunch.
What do you mean with gearing?
Ist's a rodebike groupset! If you don't get up the hill with 50/34 and 11/28 you're not worth it 😉.
For weak boys or gravel shimano offers the grx.
@@pv9383 The new gearing is "geared" to beginners or climbers. I used to ride 52/36 11-30 with 105 R7000. Now, they have nothing for enthusiasts as the rear mech won't work with a cassette smaller than 11-34. That's worthless to enthusiasts. Ultegra also got rid of the 53/39 with the biggest now being 52-36.
@@455LT1 I drove 53/39 and 11/25 and was climbing very well with this gearing. So for climbers, also bad ones 50/34 and 11/34 or even 11/36 will work fine.
If you want to gravel or do bikepacking there is the grx group with lower gearing.
So the comparison of gearing is not a fair category - in my opinion.
On my bikepacking bike i now have ultegra 50/34 with 11/32 and this is fine. My last travel went from Bern to Zermatt, i had no issues.
I ask myselve why everybody wants lower gearing?
@@pv9383Because they're getting lazy.
The noise on the SRAM brakes and having them way more prone to rubbing (less clearance) is worth negative 5 points :)
So, is Campy Chorus now the 12-spd groupset "of the people"?
Has Campagnolo ever been the groupset of the people?
Is dot fluid still the only option for sram brakes? Dot fluid leak on carbon frame is not fun.
I love campagnolo but I also have etap and I am really impressed. The only thing I don’t like is the brake lever feels small to me
Yes. Record mechanical 11-29 wich I like very much 😊
Great review. Rival for me.
Couple of thoughts (I don't own an electronic groupset) -
1- do the replacement parts cost the same (I thought Rival was much more)? I'm on my third rear (mechanical) derailleur.
2- is it possible with Sram to move the chain between front derailleur chainrings at almost the same time as a rear derailleur shift? I do that often, Ultegra mechanical, but can't see how it can be as quick with having to push the Sram paddle twice.
This can be automated in the app. When you change in the front you can set it up that it automatically changes 2 or 3 gears in the rear
@@Woeters123 thanks for the info, appreciate that
Is it easy for the front chain to fall off in a slam?
With the rival lineup sram did a lot of things right. Shimano 105 is also very compelling, as are the top tear options red and dura ace, both very good. What I’m missing from sram is an update of their mid tear offering. The new ultegra is far more sexy than force. I hope we see something in this regard next year.
Very prescient Christoffel! New SRAM Force AXS just dropped last week
Can we have a mechanical 105 VS GRX comparison next?
I disagree with the "Changing Gears" category. Having two "paddles" for each derailer makes things easier and less prone to miss-shifts. In addition, I like that I can brake and shift at the same time. Still, as you said, this is something subjective. Great video!
That is just because you are more used too. When I tried Sram etap I need 5 minutes to reprogram my muscle memory. When I went back to shimano I missed simplicity.