How Wide Is Too Wide For Road Bike Tires?
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
- Over the last few years we have seen a trend towards increasingly wide tires on road bikes. At the Tour de France, most teams were riding 28mm tires but we have also seen riders on tires as wide as 32mm. In our latest episode of GCN Does Science, Si and Alex test the new Vittoria Corsa N.EXT tires to see which size road bike tires are faster at different speeds.
In association with Vittoria 👉 gcn.eu/Vittoria
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
1:20 Our Hypothesis
2:14 The Tyres
2:49 28mm Test
6:36 32mm Test
9:31 Results
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What size tyres do you use?
57mil
I use 32mm for more comfort and for long term better health of your back.
32mm for me on my latest stead 👌
Size 30 Marin Nicosia
28mm gp5000
My Trek came with 32mm from the factory. I was also biased, that I "need" narrower tires. I have ridden the 32 Mill for ~2000km, switched to 28 mm for 6000km now and decided to go back to 32mm. I haven't seen any improvement in speed or anything like that with the 28mm but the comfort of the 32mm is so much superior that I prefer that. My usual rides are somewhere between 80-100km with 28-30 kph avg. And yes I am way too heavy to consider myself a "real road bike rider" :D
You sound like a "real" road bike rider to us - that's a lot of km! Cool to hear you're going back to the 32mm 👍
80-100km regularly sounds like a "real" road cyclist to me!
@@Goriaas especially at that speed!
I don't think there is different for that speed :D
My Domane came with 32mm but somehow the tyres were to wide for my liking. I dunno why but this really affected my motivation to ride. So I upgraded to Carbon wheels to compensate for the racey feeling. Definitely didn’t regret it.
My allround bike came with 32mm tubeless and I fell in love with them. The differences with my previous 25mm clinchers is massive:
- way more comfortable to ride on
- Can be easily inflated by a small hand pump because of the lower pressure needed.
- Can handle light gravel comfortably meaning you can add extra gravel tracks to your route.
- Can also handle rougher gravel without risking a flat, but it wont be very comfortable.
- feels more stable when turning
All in all I'm very happy with it. So far I've ridden more than 3k km with it without any flat.
what bike do you have?
I totally agree, I had the same experience , coming from 23mm to 32mm on the front wheel and 28 on the back .
@@vgud It's the Giant Contend AR 1
Suspect you’ll be putting just as much air into the larger tire
Well you are in love because your bike is not comfortable. Get steel or titanium bike and you will feel the same love with 23 or 25 mm
I just changed my 28mm to 32mm and found no difference in speed but, ride comfort was absolutely superb! I accidentally climbed a 16% to 18% and took the climb much better than expected. Hills were no bother, speed consistent and being a 110kg belly buster I thoroughly enjoyed the ride. Sticking to my 32mm tyres - Schwalbe Pro One TLE Addix-Race Evolution, awesome! At 62, I gets me thrills where’s I can! 🤪
Just bought my first road bike, how would I know if I'm able to fit 32mm? It currently has 25c, not a lot of clearance with the rim breaks but can that be adjusted?
@@_LC__for your first bike and you know little about bikes? Go to the local bike shop and ask them 😊
For the past 3 years I was riding 25, and last week I changed to a 30mm. I am so happy I watched your video, it’s much more comfortable, not affecting the speed, acceleration is amazing. Just more fun. Thanks Simon and GCN
Are you using rim brakes or disk brakes? I'm wondering if 30mm tyres (looking at the schwalbe G one speed) would fit the Shimano 105 R7000 rim brake caliper. Is there anyone who tried it out yet? I know the spec sheet says it is compatible up to 28mm, but they do not make certain tyres in 28mm.
Back in the 1990s, I was running 23 mm and 25 mm tires on my road bikes, and my racer friends were telling me I should be running 18 mm tires. Now, I'm still running 23 mm and 25 mm tires on my road bikes, and I'm being told I should be running 28 mm or 32 mm tires. Of course, back then I was being told I should have triple chain rings on my road bikes. Now, I'm being told a single chain ring is just fine.
Marketing never sleeps, and doesn't have to innovate if you can just recycle :)
Well when the kassette was 6/7/8 speed a triple chain ring gives enormous advantages. When however you already have a kassette that has 10 gears or even 11/12, the advantage isnt as big. A 1x setup in the 80s with 6 gears has half the gears as a 1x now with 12 gears. So while im not on the 1x train, rather the 2x, it makes sense for many areas.
@@kaseycarpenter73 i had an mtb now i have shifted on a hybrid bike which has 28 c tyres, on roads it is fantastic, i feared that on rough roads it would have less grip and uncomfortable, today i rode it on a hilly unpaved track, i never felt that the tyres have less grip or uncomfortable
@@gulmuhammad5158 Nice. I have an allraod that can take up to 50c tires. So when I want plushy plush, I put on my 650bx50s and steamroll over everything -I mean literal potholes, lol. When I have the zoomies, I swap those out fo the 28mm deep dish rims, which, with inserts, I can run at about 70psi and still manage some level of comfort.
@@prokopf-9332 The number of gears in the cassette has changed, but the gear range for road bikes has remained about the same. You could get 11-34T in a Shimano 8-speed cassette, and you now typically get the same in a Shimano 12-speed cassette for road bikes.
My endurace came with a 30 up front and a 32 in the rear. It’s 95% used for tarmac but the roads aren’t the best and I’ll soon be running 35mm front and rear. For me the comfort and confidence a few mm’s bring are the difference. Im also aware that I’m never winning the tour or going pro so I don’t need to lie to myself and run 25’s just to suffer.
Great to have a bike that can fit chunky boy tyres!
Absolutely agree with you.
I believe that after 32mm, the law of diminishing returns kicks in on a road tire width. I mostly ride a gravel bike set up for road: Enve 3.4s rims with Rene Herse 35mm slicks. At 195 lbs, I run 110 psi - hard. Very comfy ride, but slower than my road bike. Much slower. My road bike has Mavic Rys rims with 28mm Conti 5000s. I run them at 120 psi. It's a different world. Huge acceleration advantage for the road bike. Climbing is vastly superior on the road bike. And I have no doubt that it's the different tire width, not the different geometry, that accounts for MOST of the difference in speed. I'm going to buy some 32s and put them on my gravel bike. My bet is that the performance difference will narrow vastly between the two machines. Any takers?
@@MrIsaac-dh3uh let us know of the results! i also have a gravel bike with 42mm tires, and contemplating buying a road bike.. but if putting 32 mm tires on gravel bike is a good enough improvement - I'd rather go with that
@@MrIsaac-dh3uh a lot of roads I ride gravel on are way too chunky for 32mm to be comfortable. If it’s nice pebble sized stuff, might be ok
I'm currently riding 28 mm which is the thinnest I've ever ridden. Before that I was riding a hybrid bike with 35 mm. I was expecting the 28 mm to be a really rough ride, but actually have no problem with it at all. Find them perfectly comfortable. That's probably because even when I was riding the 35 mm, I was doing so almost exclusively on the road, so they were always held at relatively high pressure, and so I'm already used to that feel.
Interesting video, thanks! Currently using my gravel bike as a do-it-all bike with two wheel sets. On the road wheels I run a 32mm Conti GP5000 tubeless, works brilliantly, super comfortable and extremely forgiving when riding gravelly cycling paths. Not concerned about speed too much, came to accept I am very slow ;-)
I was happy with 28mm until I accidentally ordered 32mm tyres by mistake, best mistake I've ever made for biking. The performance is the same for me but the comfort is so much more on long and quiet back country roads. I'm converted.
There's always a compromise.
A high speed bike is also terrible at slow speeds.
Awesome Colin!!
Next step is to pick something with 4 inch tires and never worry about the road You take :D
@dreyn7788 that's only with frame geometry, not tire size. At least not with the sizes we're speaking of.
@@unclebobqq😂
Very interesting video. I ride long distance, sometimes into ultra-endurance (circa 200km) and I opted for a 32mm. Reason being that I wasn't trying to go as fast as possible, I wanted to go as far as possible and the argument was that comfort over an 18 hour ride would be better than an extra 1 or 2 kph over the same distance. The beauty about this of course, everyone can choose what works for them!
Ultra is above 300km?
I'd say ultra doesn't start until you are doing more than 600km... Why, loads of 600km Audax rides.
Mark Beaumont in all his endurance related videos, podcasts and books claim anything over 100 miles is ultra. I'd say he's fairly well qualified to pass judgement. I am not tied to a single definition, in fact, if someone said 200km was bang average I couldn't care less. It's about getting out, turning the pedals and smiling. So if I ride 200km +, whatever the definitions are, I ride a wider tyre for comfort. That was simply my point.
@@Kobe404 well, I stand corrected. I'll not disagree with Mr B. I'm a fan of 35mm tyres for long (over 200km) stuff, and night riding. For quicker paced stuff of 200km I usually use 28mm tyres.
@@hectorkidds9840 the beauty of it is, we can all go with what we think works best. I just did a long ride of around 250km for charity and went back and forth on tyre size for ages. Eventually settled on the 32s because I'm lazy and couldn't be bothered switching to the 28s 🤣🤣🤣
This was a really good quality video, well done. A bunch of your earlier 'sciencey' videos were really not solid enough even for RUclips, left more questions than they answered. But you explained the science well and performed a legit test/ demonstration. Must have been the lab coat. Well done
I mention this video to fellow riders in my bike club, as the whole philosophy around tires and tire pressure has come a long way! I remember 15 years ago being taught to fill my 25mm's to the maximum air pressure! As my main bike, I now have a T Lab R3 Omni, and ride it for both road and medium gravel rides. Using 35 mm PanaRacer tubeless 'slicks', I have no problems keeping up with my group. I'm in the 24 - 26 km/hr classification, about 80 km 2 - 3 times a week with road, or mix with about 60 km gravel rides. Much smoother ride, do need a lot more cleaning with the gravel rides, and much fewer flats (but I have put an innertube in on a flat recently!). I know others doing the same thing. Was thinking about going to 2 wheel sets (28 mm and 35 mm), but this works fine for me.
My Merida Reacto 6000 came with 25mm tyres, upgraded to 28mm tubeless tyres on carbon rims 3weeks after and absolutely love it!
I specifically remember during the 2022 Tour de France that many teams were using 26mm tires (except for the cobblestones of Paris-Roubaix). 25mm are perfect for me. My brother rides 28mm, and we always have identical data after 40-50 mile rides.
Vingegaard has been using 24 mm in 2023, Pogacar as much as 32 mm. Average TFD is 25-26 mm might be. I presume they use different tyres depending on the stage, bike choice, etc.
Great stuff. It's tough for old dogs like me to learn new tricks...My new bike came with 26mm tires, I moved to 28mm (which were an improvement, particularly at lower pressures) and based on what you shared here, it's definitely time to try 32mm next.
Someone in the comment string probably already made this comment earlier, but rim width has a big impact on how well a wider tire is going to work with your bike, not to mention having enough frame clearance...which isn't a problem on my new road bike, but is definitely a problem on my 2007 vintage bike (25mm max clearance and skinny rims to boot, unfortunately).
I also experimented with running lower pressures on my old bike (80 PSI with 25mm tires) and suffered too many pinch flats as a result. My new wider rim / 28mm set up allows me to run much lower pressure (65 PSI) in spite of me weighing 170lbs, and in general I am experiencing far fewer flat tires, which is possibly the #1 upside out of the whole deal.
45psi! Wow, I remember people routinely pumping up to 120psi with 23mm tyres a few years ago. I never thought there was much point in that as it was just uncomfortable and skittish, and I felt so vindicated when Schwalbe did some research in perhaps 2010 and concluded that lower pressures (up to a point) were more efficient because they allowed the the carcass to absorb micro-bumps without vibrating the whole bike (which of course takes energy) - the point that everyone seems suddenly so aware of.
I must've missed the PSI being used but found it in the video after reading this comment. Wow 60 PSI on a 28mm? I'm still doing around 80 on mine.
Ive overinflated tires on a car but that has suspension. Low tire pressure is key without suspension
I use about 85 psi on my 28c. I'm not confident in avoiding a pinch flat going lower. I'd love to try 32c but 28c is the most that will fit under my 105 brake calipers
@@0xsergy Look at the tyre pressures of sherp ATV, they have no suspension and just use the tyres softness.
I was running 18mm (and U-shaped!) at 120 psi 30 years ago as the best expert's recommendation
A few months ago I changed from a 25 mm to a 28 mm Continental Grand Prix clincher tire mounted on a Vision Team 35 wheel. Beter cornering, less pressures, a bit more comfort, better on those small gravel roads when 'necessary', and much better looks. Love it. Go for that wider tire when possible is what I think.
I went to 23 mm, so much fun
@@stibra101 from?
@@konstantin7596 25
hi have you tried the tires at same pressure? which is faster? im buying soon thx
@@hugobrown2516 I use about 5.8 to 6 bar. Love the feeling. Had one puncture in 735km with an offroad rock.
Interesting report. I'd think that i would never go any bigger than my 23mm, but then again 90% of our roads in my area are pretty silky smooth. Bring on the speed!
A very intuitive video that raised a huge number of very informative comments. I ride 80-100+km on rather imperfect tarmac with 25mil clincher on both wheels which are way more comfortable than the previous 23s, but seriously tempted to go to 28mil on the back wheel as a start. Thank you all :)
28/30/32mm tubeless.. you wont regret it, just double the sealant amount
1:49 I'm loving the Sophisticated Si 🤓. You get this sense, he was very proud of himself for using the word "hypotheses".
My Scott Addict comes with 32 mm Schwalbe One tube tyre and I run 53/58 psi F/R. Far more comfortable than my older bike's 28 mm at 70/80 psi with no significant loss of speed.
my dads bike has 32's and i borrowed it to climb in the mountains, i didnt notice them being slow at all, in fact on the descent i cornered like i was on a motorcycle, now i want 32's
I love advancements in tech. I encourage and embrace fresh ideas, but having tried many combinations of set-ups ranging from the old way to the new, I'm fully convinced running latex tubes in whichever size tire and either type of rim bead is best in terms of speed, ride feel, reliability, ease of tire changes / repair, cleanliness, expense, simplicity and general peace of mind. (When using hookless rims with latex tubes, be sure to use a tubeless tire with its non-stretching bead.) Try it. Live it. Love it.
I recently put on Vittoria Corsa 30s and I'm running them tubeless. I love the comfort of the ride and the grip is incredible. Totally worth it.
Are you using rim brakes or disk brakes? I'm wondering if 30mm tyres (looking at the schwalbe G one speed) would fit the Shimano 105 R7000 rim brake caliper. I know the spec sheet says it is compatible up to 28mm.
I'm running disc brakes on a Tarmac SL6 with Shimano Ultegra. Try to go as big as possible, you'll be happy with the comfort.@@MultiLuc28
This was very informative and entertaining. Great journalism as usual Ollie!
28-32mm tubeless are a nice sweet zone for me on UK roads, fast, comfortable and low rolling resistance (P zero race tlrs or 5000s tr) on hookless rims.
Bumpy UK roads do feel better with an extra bit of width!
Spot on. Totally reflects my experience. I use 28mm in front, 32mm in back, with wide rims
Yep...I did it on my 2022 s-works tarmac sl7 and now on my 2023 trek madone slr...28mm in the front and 30 to 32mm in the rear...speed & comfort all day
Air resistance is proportional to the square of velocity. Hence, required _power_ to maintain a velocity is proportional to (velocity ^ 3). Reason, you overcome the air resistance in shorter time, hence the square of velocity, times the velocity..... Consequently, the speed difference between 28mm and 32mm driven with the same power, is only one percent, 0.4 KM/h. Assuming of course the 10 watt difference as mentioned in the video. The small speed difference is relevant for competion, but for recreation? For me, comfort is more important. I moved from 23mm to 25mm back in 2008, moved to 28mm in 2010.
Loving 30's on my Roval C38's!! I don't feel any faster with them, but I also do not feel any slower. The increased comfort on the bike is well worth the wider rubber & slight weight penalty!!
I replaced my aluminum wheels with carbon wheels and went with the recommended tire size which were thin. It vastly improved my ride, but I recently purchased a look with thicker tires and was astounded at how much more comfortable the ride was. Given that I am a casual rider, I prefer the comfort.
28mm are statistically supposed to be fastest. 32 is more comfort for no real loss
Thanks so much for taking the time to conduct this very rational, empirical investigation! Like many people I’ve been operating on the basis of other riders’ opinions, not much actual data. Since I’m just a recreational rider, you’ve convinced me I should move up from my 28mm to try 30 or 32 next time - more comfortable, no speed penalty (given that I never do 40 km/hr on the flats) - what’s not to like?
Loved the conclusion at 9:40 that it doesn't matter what width tyres you have the most important thing is you're out riding in the first place! Awesome! (btw I have 32 tyres but I'm motivated to experiment with softer pressure!)
I've been running 32mm Hutchinson Sectors for a few years now. I'm a 58 yo tall clydesdale. I tried these as winter tires initially, but liked them so much I never went back to 25s or 28s. I think I'll try the Vittorias at 34c when I next buy tires. My bike has clearance for 35s.
At 10:32 Si says, "28s at 40k/h were statistically better....10W more efficient". The table at 10:16 regarding average power required on 28s at 40k/h was 343.0W and at 10:21 the table shows the average power required on 32s at 40k/h was 343.5W. I only see a 0.5W power difference. Can Si show his math? Or was this a typo on the tables?
Yeah either the charts or the dialog is off
I was confused about that too, hey GCN can you clarify?
@global cycling network
GCN "science" at its best. 😂
He's blown it
I predominantly ride audax and touring. Love my 32mm slicks for combination of comfort and speed but currently run 35mm slicks because I prefer a bit more rubber under me when the bike is loaded. They are perfectly fine for the average speeds I ride at (21-26kmph) and can handle all British road surfaces plus bridlepath gravel.
We ride a tandem and it turned out that our otherwise perfect 50mm slicks (Schwalbe Kojaks) were weakly protected against punctures. A protection belt inside a tire is a nice thing but these extra millimeters of the tread are just necessary to do the job.
@@PrzemyslawSliwinski that’s a pain. I run Panaracer Gravelkings and found the tan walls look lovely but puncture too easily. The all black however seem to be pretty bombproof.
@@Quevallyn I have had this same experience lol. Black tires never have an issue...any of the color ones or tan wall gk slicks, I puncture a lot
I ride 28s on my aero and 32s on my gf02 (or 37s if doing pure gravel). Huge difference in comfort vs the 23s I used to have on my trek. Great video!
Interesting video, I learned something today. Thank you!
For my gravel bike, at some time, I would want some proper tyres. My rides vary from 40km to 90km. On this gravel bike I almost always ride between 45% and 60% on tarmac/asfalt (to get to any gravel). Also the brick roads turn out to be important, say another 25%-30%, and the gravel, unpaved, sand roads are there but limited. Before this video I thought 35mm, but after the video I more and more think of 40mm tyres are meant for me (for the gravel bike). Wider tyres are way more comfortable and way faster on brick roads (then narrower), and also on gravel. But also on asphalt, that's ... wow, that's huge.
I moved from 28 to 32 but kept the same tyre pressure in the 32 that I was running in the 28. The research that I carried out suggested lowering the pressures in a wider tyre if you want better comfort, or keep a higher pressure in the wider tyre for lower rolling resistance/faster speed.
Did my triathlons and an Ironman on my new Michelin Power Cups 28 mm, tubeless this year. Very impressive, fast, sticky and puncture proof tyres. Didn’t notice me becoming any slower, though wayyyy more comfortable ride. Pressure is at 72/74 psi but I am a heavier rider.
Cool test. I'm from Vermont. We have tons of nice rural routes and I mainly split my time between a gravel bike with 38mm Gravelking SKs and road bike. Even the road bike has 32mm tubeless file tread tires because many of our lesser traveled scenic roads can get pretty choppy. I'll often have short gravel segments on a road ride. I've been tempted to go back to 28mm tires but am feeling pretty good about the 32mm set-up that I've been riding for a few years after seeing this side-by-side comparison. If our roads were less choppy, I'd be inclined to go back to 28mm with a TPE tube.
I remember fitting 26" x 4.00 to my bike, and all I can say is that the difference was incredible, it completely smooths out bumps in road, and gave me a little bit more confidence on the occasional gravel track.
Sounds comfy!!! 🙌
Expect to see more of those fat tire E-bikes.
I ride 28mm@front (more aero) | 32mm@back (more comfort). Remember to take a look at your weight distribution on the bike to give each tire an individual calculated tire pressure.
Would be great see a video about weight distribution / tire pressure and a mixed / individual tire setup for the front and back wheel.
This makes a lot of sense. We see this in motorsport all the time. I wonder if it will become common practice.
I've got the same 28 front 32 back just because that's all the bike shop had day before a long bike trip .what pressures do you like to run I'm 81kg run 80psi but looking at this vid make.me think I'm running too high and was also think bout swapping back to 28 but the 32 is comfy
@@chrisswan3986 That depends on the inner rim width and whether you have a clincher, tubular or tubeless setup. At a system weight of 90 kg and for a tubless setup with an inner rim width of 22 mm i would recomand 65 psi at the front (28mm) and 59,5 psi at the back wheel (32mm) for a dry road surface.
@Gravel Devil thanks yeah 22m width tubeless setup Hutchinson fusion5 .thanks for info
bigger tire on the back is great, although once you get to bigger sizes it does effectively change your gearing somewhat.
This came at the perfect time. I have a Trek Checkpoint that still has the stock 40mm gravel tires that need to be replaced, and since I ride it exclusively on the road now I was looking at going with a 28mm or 32mm road tire. I currently ride between 15-16mph over 20-30 mile rides so I think the 32mm will suit me better at this point.
Go for the 32C tires. I also have a Trek Checkpoint SL6
which I use mainly as a road bike. I ride at about the same speed averaging 40 to 60-mile rides. We have significant hill climbs all around where I live. Switched to Hunt 35 X-wide hookless wheelset with 25mm internal width and Continental GP 5000 S TR tires. Very noticeable difference. You will be much happier with the 32c tires.
I’ve got a Checkpoint and have two wheelsets, one with 32mm Maxxis Refuse and they are great for everything. The original Specialized Diverge (2016 ish) gravel bike came with 32mm tyres as standard.
@@AndyPaul-wr5hm Hi Paul, isn't 25mm too much for a 32mm tire? Could you measure how wide is the tire on your wheel? Thx I have GP5k 32mm on 21 inner wide wheel and is 30.5mm wide when measured.
@@petertapaj4859 There is a table on the Continental 5000 S TR website that shows the max rim width supported by the 32C tires is 25. I don't have calipers to measure the tire width on the wheels but I can say that I have ridden over 275 miles and 21k vertical ft with this setup with no issues.
32f, maybe 35r if you have racks? Id say keep it wide enough to absorb road bumps. Im on 28s and theyre okay, just a bit rough offroad.
I used to switch from my 28mm road tyres to my 32 CX tyres when roads got slippery in Autumn each year. Then several years I realised I didn't go any slower. Not used the narrower road tyres since. Plus as I tend to go off road a lot even with the 28mms, I was even faster with the fatter, grippier and more comfy tyres there too. Less rim smacking too.
I switched to lower pressure even earlier after doing bike comparisons and discovering the lower pressure tyres and as a result way comfier bikes were faster.
Wider tyres also need wider rims to prevent a lightbulb shape which is not good for aero benefits. The difference in this test could be simply down to that rim width aspect.
Hi! I still use 28 tubeless, but with new wide rims. Anyway, I think that if you make a test with a peloton the numbers will turn in favor of the 32. The extra drag will be mitigated and the benefits in comfort will pay of in long stages. Thinner tires (in this new standards) will probably continue to show up in TT Stages, at least on the front wheels.
As someone with disc issues in my lower back, I switched over to 32mm for the added shock absorption since it means I can ride comfortably for a much longer distance, and I don't deal with pain the next day. I was going to go for some super swish carbon seat post to help smooth out the road rattle, but these did the trick at a fraction of the price!
Why did you break your back? How can I avoid it?
@@fVNzO Completely unrelated to cycling, so no worries! Far too many years of a physical job that took a serious toll on my spine, eventually causing multiple discs to degenerate and collapse. Cycling has provided me with an excellent source of exercise that has made a huge difference in my quality of life. I have less daily back pain now then before I started cycling!
I did ride on 23s for years then moved to 25s. Then tried 28s for three years. I found 28s to be noisy, cumbersome, dead feeling. Moved back to 25s and the ride just feels different - better, more enjoyable. BTW so glad y'all keep reminding us to just be out there. Good job as always.
Per chance, are you a featherweight rider like me?
Lol no, 69" 200lbs and 35 years past my prime....
I tried one winter on 28mm tyres (2004). They were more comfortable, but like you I found them to be sluggish and dead feeling. Needed to change down a further gear also to get up the hills. Ridden 23 and 25mm ever since and am happy.
I agree with you. I find the wider tires feel slower. I rode 23 for years then moved up to 28 and back down to 25's. Used the same tire brand. I am not sure if the wider tires were actually slower but the bike handled sharper and felt more responsive and faster. Also I felt that there was better road or surface feel with narrower tires.
im 60kg..and 23mm at 100psi is always the fastest and the funnest....vibrates like hell but im under 20km rides
Been using 28 for about 2half years and im pretty satisfied with the experience, im using a 1988 raleigh racer bike and 28mm tires work great at long rides.
My new Trek Domane came with 32mm tubeless tires. My previous Domane had 25 mm tires with tubes. I ran the 25mm tires at 100PSI rear and 95 PSI front. I run my new 32mm tires at 60PSI front and 70 PSI rear. I have to say that my new bike with the wider tires is much more comfortable to ride even considering that the new bike has some "suspension" built into the frame. The new bike is also considerably faster than the old bike. The new bike with the wider tires is also much more stable at speed.
Wow, now this was some seriously valuable science! Thanks lads for doing this (and for making it utterly entertaining as usual). I think I'll stick with 28, but the promise of better comfort with 32 is enticing
Cheers Joe, glad you found this one useful!
Maybe my next set Ill split the difference and go 30mm haha. Currently on 28mm and definitely perfer over last 25mm set.
Beginning at the 10:17 mark, Si claims that the 28mm tires are 10 watts in savings at 40 km/h over the 32s but the data illustrated says the 28s were 343.0w at 40 km/h while the 32s were 343.5w. That's only a half watt, not the 10 watts claimed as being the advantage at the higher speed. CGN, am I missing something here?
Exactly. What's up with that GCN?
@@nctrns You won't get a reply because the whole premise of the video doesn't take into account the complete inconsistencies of the road. This evaluation needs to be done with the wheel on a weighted rig on a rolling road dynamometer.
Good spot Jesse. Sorry, that was a typo. The 28mm were 331W at 40km/h so slightly over 10W less!
@@fredbrackely You have missed the point of the video. A rolling road, even with the tarmac simulation surfaced roller, does not replicate the inconsistencies of road surfaces and how different-sized tyres and pressures deal with traction loss reduction as tyres widen.
I totally agree with everything said about comfort and the "planted" feel especially on hard corners.It could be a coincidence but my average speed is lower since I fitted the wider tyres.
Amazing video! Thanks for the update. Science always wins! Take care of that knee!
running 35mm Rene Herse tyres for 2 years now on my Canyon Endurance and I love it :)
only problem I found is that is getting a replacement innertube ad a event.... because I was riding 1 month outside on my racing bike this spring and was bikepacking for 3 months after that on gravel:) I didn't get tubless setup this year..... but I rode the Amstel Gold event race and got 1 puncture so ad the first stop I got an extra innertube..... they had only innertubes for 23mm..... and you guesed it I got another puncture..... the 23mm innertube.... barly fitted and got blow out in 10km..... my mates all ride 25/28mm and well those dont hold out in 35mm to good eather.....
had to bail out of the event 15km bevore the end
still running these tyres because I love the smoothness of them so much but running tubless again. and run with 2 spare lightwight innertubes in my pocket now, because my mates still haven't seen the light :D
I love the 35mm Rene Herse Tires! I used to use 32mm Conti GP 5000s, but I loved the speed and feel of the Rene Herse 35mm, I switched. Supple, smooth, fast - plus I can ride anywhere with them.
Am running 28 on my tcr, very pleased with their performance and comfort.. in this test, the differences in the psi are much greater then their measured speed differences. I wonder about how the actual tire deformation from making contact with the road surface affected the results. Wish they’d done a 3rd run with 32 at higher pressure : maybe mid point ?
Been thinking about trying 28 mm tyres for a long time now. The roads here in Finland are quite bad in places due to heavy wear from studded car tyres and ground frost in the winter. This video convinced me so much so that I’ll invest in a set of 28’s the next time I buy tyres. Thanks GCN👍
I'm in Australia in a region where the roads are poor mainly because of high summer temps and truck use. I changed from 25 to 28 mm a couple of years back and i will never go back. I run Vittoria Corsa Control tubeless at 80psi rear and 70psi front. Good luck.
if you have crap roads i'd go to the 32's.. you'll thank me.. i am running a mixture of 28's, 32's and 38's.. never go below 28's again..(tubeless 8000km no punctures.. just double the amount of sealant that's recommended.)
Interesting, I'm a part time cyclist and have a couple of steel bikes on 23mm old racing bike and 32mm new bike commuting/touring and have always run them at max pressure because I thought that was better. I'll be trying the 32mm at 45 ish next time I ride. Coincidentally I run Vittoria's on both. Thanks for the vid.
I went from 23mm & 25mm to 28mm tyres on my road bike and I’ve never looked back. The improvement in comfort is sublime and I’ve gained a bit of speed too as I’m far more comfortable than I was on the thinner tyres 👍🏾
If you tune the bike, it won't be as good in other areas.
@@Gma7788 ? The point of tuning anything is aiming to improve things overall……isn’t it?
After decades of riding 700x23c tires at over 100 psi, I figured the wide rim and wide tire setup (700x32c) on my 2020 Trek Domane SL7 was a marketing gimmick. However, I'm now a believer in the wide rim / wide tire package and can't imagine going back to narrow tires for endurance and training rides. I feel so much less fatigued at the end of a ride and I've been able to ride over the nastiest of roads and gravel w/o flatting (partially due to a tubeless setup as well.)
Started on 23s, moved to 28s, will be 30s next. My secondhand topstone came with 42s, very comfy, great around corners.
I've been commuting for years on a specialized diverge with a 30mm tire in the back and a 33 in the front and it's perfect. My route is essentially a flat 5 miles in one direction and consists of 4 miles of asphalt and 1 mile of smooth hard packed gravel road. I was originally running 30mm front and back but the 33 in the front adds just a little bit more grip, comfort, efficiency and security to the dirt portion of my ride.
Definitely will change to bigger on my next replacements from 25C to at least 28 if not 32 with latex tubes. I am older and light so the benefit of less bumps through already stressed hands will be a blessing. I can ride at 40km/h but it quickly wears me out!
I’ve been riding with 32mm tires for few years. I love it. The 32mm tires absorb road vibrations well.
Great test guys. Enjoyed that one.
Well done gents. Well presented and explained.
Thanks for the comparison. I am Si height but weigh 80kg.
I own different bikes with different tire sizes. Honestly, they all are good. I still have a older carbon road bike with 25mm tires which still feels good pumped up pretty high but I go back to the 23mm days. I like 28mm for a modern bike for speeds above 20 mph versus 32.
But I prefer rim brakes as well which is related because harder to get rim brakes to work on a 32mm wide tire.
I like the new trend in modern road bikes, coming with room for 34-35mm tires. Makes the bike much more versatile, and most people don’t have perfectly smooth roads to ride regularly.
If you ride on the road, most roads are smooth enough assuming the road is not a neglected road.
The great tire size debate continues. Thank you for the great videos. I've been running 25's and 28's for years on my older road bikes, but just recently realized I could lower the pressure on them. I'm a 190 pound rider in California.
Just bought my first road bike, what do you run 25s at? I have mine at 90 is that okay?
Using 28mm on my road bike now, noticed last night they were feeling a bit squishy so checked the pressure; 40psi. Aside from feeling a bit soft over some kerbs, plus feeling the stones on the road more, there wasn't any issue riding such a low pressure. Wide tyres set up tubeless are absolutely magic, especially on road surfaces such as those across large swathes of the UK.
You are going to rip a sidewall, break a rim or roll the tire off the rim. Need to up that psi!
Good video; for me it is a significant improvement in ride quality while the speed is negligible. I switched to a 28mm in the rear to see if I can improve puncture resistance on the road and immediately noticed the more comfortable ride and smoother rolling quality of the bike. I plan to switch from a 25 to a 28 in the front and my racing wheelset too. Good job.
On longer distances and rougher tarmac, I found that front suspension +skinny tire is definitely faster than rigid fork +wider tire(@25-35kph). With the suspension I can also hold an aero position for longer, even on bumpy surfaces.
Great point, I run a 23 on the front with a suspension fork with a lockout for climbing and that is really comfortable with little of the jarring that narrow tyres usually give, the suspension fork adds weight but that doesnt bother me
I've been riding 25's and there harsh..After watching this video I'm going to try the N.EXT in 30mm!..The sweet spot! 😵💫
I have only used 28mm and now i am open to trying something wider. Great video.
I started running big chunky boy 35 mm Continental GP urbans on my 25mm internal rim width wheel set and I love it! So comfortable, and I keep setting PR's on my strava. I'm a fan and convert of bigger, wider tires. All about that comfort
Just be aware of the very narrow tread the GP Urbans have. On those wide rims the sidewalls balloon out way past the tread area, and the sidewalls are very weak.apart from that its a lovely comfy relatively puncture resistent fast tire for a modern endurance road bike.
I’ve been running wider tyres for a few years now. I’m currently using 35c as I love the comfort and versatility to mix up the surfaces I can venture into. Riding with my mates is harder when there is lots of surging but otherwise I love them. I started off with 32c when the GP5000s came onto the scene and they were great but wore out quickly, the 35c from Pirelli solved that issue. So much more comfort for not that much more noticeable effort 😊
I'm going to leave a comment on that above, but I too am doing 35c "slick" gravel, and keeping up with my biking group.
I upgraded my endurance bike's 32mm stock tires for Pirelli's 28mm Cinturato tires (for a mix of better performance and puncture resistance). Something that is not mentioned in this video is that stock tires are often not the best and that switching for higher grade tires (32 or 28) could make a huge difference in ride quality. I saw a noticeable difference in cornering, handling and Strava PRs. Long story short, the tire quality can make a big difference.
A good point to make. I just upgraded from Bontrager 1 to Bontrager 3
Went from 32 mm to 28 mm. I only have one 33 mile with the new tires. Time will tell.
@@2006zo6vette how they are ? 😮 I am gona give the 28mm tyre a run since i always run 25mm tyre hope it will help my cornering handling and confort without affecting the speed !
I think my Dutch bike and Brompton both have 36mm, which I thought was a bit narrow but on second thought, might be relatively in the sweet spot for cruising around. My e-bike has 62mm Supermoto X tyres which are great. Don’t have to worry about rolling resistance when you have a motor.
Thank you for performing a scientifically sound experiment and showing/testing two important points:
1) That gathering a statically significant sample size can be boring but necessary. Wouldn't be surprised if Alex really was that bored by the end.
2) Testing at a speed the average person rides at. Too often companies make claims at 40 km/hr.
The only bit that was amiss is Alex wearing shirts with a lab coat.
I've been riding on 35 mm Schwalbe Maranthons for over a month and I am really enjoying the increased comfort and stability, and I'm not really seeing a drop-off in performance. One thing the increased stability gives me is confidence. I feel safer standing on my pedals when I want to really put down the power, and also faster speeds feel much safer, so I'm less inclined to feather those brakes, even on relatively rough roads. Yes, technically my 28 mm Continental Gatorskins are faster, but the difference is so slight I don't really miss it.
Mind you, the speeds I'm referring to range from 22-33 mph, so there may be some +33 mph performance I am just not aware of.
Gatorskins are notoriously slow, I mean they're great and (mostly) never puncture but they ain't fast.
Exactly, try gp5000s and they'll feel quite different.
I'm a heavy rider and I just switched my back tire to 32 (front stays at 28), which allows me to reduce back tire pressure from 100 psi to 60 psi. What an improvement in confort and grip. I do feel that reactivity is negatively impacted, but thers no going back for me. Thanks for the great video, it reinforces my observations and decision. 👍
How heavy in kg ?
I'm 90 kilo ride in 25 stock tire, but need to check pressure for every 3 day. Its suck.
Few days ago im replacing with 32.
I'm not riding it yet, when i replace it, it looks to big for me.
Why you consider 28 at front ?
Not 28 at back, 32 at front ?
As your presentation states wider or narrower does not mean better or worst, I prefer wider tires (that my bike can fit properly) for I ride for health and fun, and comfort suites me better than speed. Thanks for your video and the good advice!
I just switched my Vittoria Corsa’s for the Conti’s 5k’s primarily cause my LBS was out of the VC’s… the first thing I noticed was the grip and handling of the bike… the VC’s with their wider tire profile were/had way more grip than the narrow Conti’s when going thru turns… and the ride felt smoother than the Conti’s… I just wish the VC’s were as puncture resistant as the Conti’s…
When I first rode a road bike 20 years ago, I put on 21 for one year and then progressed for 23 about 15 years. For the last 3 years It is 25. It is still on rim brake alu wheel about 1.7 kg. I have no choice as more and more online tyres come with 25 minimum and it's fine by me as I don't notice much difference between 23 or 25 as I am a senior citizen rider, travelling at 25-30 km/hour.
I tried 25 instead of 23 and defiantly noticed the différance, the 25 rubbed inside the mudguards, defiantly not changing 4 perfectly useable vintage steel for modern plastic landfill crap.
I have had this discussion with my cycling friends while group riding on multiple occasions. I use 28mm tires on my road bikes which I inflate to 80psi (I'm 84 kg). This combination works great for all "real world" riding conditions. When we do hit the occasional new and super smooth tarmac, then I think narrower/harder tires are great, but even in those rare conditions I don't feel that my wider, softer tires are much of a disadvantage. Of course, there's no comparison in comfort. The wider softer tires make for a much more comfortable ride in most conditions, which if I'm honest, has become much more important to me as I've gotten older. Great video and I love your real world testing!
I run my 28s at 80 psi also. I tried them at 65 and 70 psi at my tech’s recommendation, but get much better performance with enough comfort at 80 psi. I’m 75 kg
@@ancientfifer I'm 87 Kg and also uses 80psi on 28mm Zaffiro Pro Vittoria tires. I'm not riding tubeless.
I've tried 55, 65, 75, 80, 85, 90 and 110 psi already - After 85 PSI the bike receives all the vibrations from the tarmac (and holes + imperfections) I'm used to ride - it becomes a shaky ride with tingling hands. With lower pressures than 70 psi, it seems that the bike get stuck into the ground. The observations were based on my personal experience and feeling, so means almost nothing in science terms.
@@regisateparece yes, I have experienced that "stuck to the ground" feeling at 65 and 70, although its comfortable ride. I'll run at that pressure on a casual recovery ride though, with no big climbs. Happy riding!
That's not very logical.
Tyres are getting wider cause they were crashing with skinny tyres.
The tyres had no cornering ability.
@@Gma7788 That’s a misconception. The tires has a U profile like in superbikes. The area that touch the tarmac is really narrow compared as the total width. So entering in the corner, you’re able to bank left or right and turn as motorcycles, without turning the front wheels. That’s the only way to turn when you’re speeding (in bikes or motorbikes). That’s why the wider tires doesn’t bring rolling resistance proportionally to the width - they’re U Shaped.
I remember a day when I rode 18mm Conti's in the front at 140 psi, and a 20mm in the back at about 120 psi. I got so many pinch flats especially on the front. Now I've got a Vittoria 25mm front and a 28 mm rear. My road machine is a bit vintage early 2000's deal, so the 28mm rear is almost rubbing because they didn't make frames to fit them back then. I wish I had clearance for 32's because those would be sweet. My solution was to build a nice light gravel bike, and put a road worthy 40mm tire on it. Should be comfy now. Planning a lot of hill climb rides with it.
Best ad for these tires! I loved the last generation of Vittoria Corsas and now I really want these! I've got an old rim brake frame so my space is limited but I might go wider this time. 26mm will do! :D
Very informative. I am definitely not a racer but I do like to go as fast as I can. However, comfort is the main factor for me & there were 2 stand out comments. At 04:10 Simon emphasised the importance of vibration loss - a real world issue. Then at 10:30 he said that the 32mm tyres were "way more comfortable". These are the key issues for me
Try 28mm front and 32mm rear, which is what I did after watching this. Now I can be both fast AND comfy
Yes, I agree... I moved up from 23mm to 25mm, not much difference in size but the comfort is greatly better. No loss in Speed vs Power. I am having a new set of wheels built with 32mm can't wait to sport these bad boys. "OORAH"
Love the 32mm on my Giant Defy Advanced 2. Rims are designed to accommodate them and they're tubeless. I used to ride 23mm and the 32mm are pure heaven for my ass and wrists. Plus, they generally feel way faster which is probably due to them being tubeless.
I personally feel like 28~32 is where it's at for road, but I'd probably never go narrower than 32mm now since I'm just cycling casually. Even thought about 35mm since my bike can fit them and it would allow me to ride some gravel / muddy terrain. 32mm is enough though and I don't feel like my tires will explode if I go off the smooth tarmac onto a dirt path.
Love the content!
l ride two road bikes one with 32s @80psi one with 25s @100psi . l can go lil faster on the 25s but l prefer the 32s more BTW the difference is only 3km/hr on the same stretch sprinting :)
Having the 28 mm on my Roti has been a really cool experience but I definitely see myself going to a 32 just to check it out
how was it?
Great video lots of information to take on board, i run 28mm tyres at 85psi front and 95psi at the rear with inner tube cause roads where i live aren't that bad, I'm not entirely sold on tubeless yet.
I put 28mm Vittorias on and old ally GT road bike - the widest I could fit running at 80psi for my 88kg. It transformed the comfort of the bike, compared with 25s, which I also used to overinflate, of course. I reckon running 28mm tyres could given many older ally bikes, which are notably harsher riding than modern carbon bikes, a second wind. Handy for winter.
Fatter tyres and an older bike, that's for sure winter worthy 🙌
The fastest tyre at 40kmph will likely be the one that matches the aero profile of your wheel. So you need to do this experiment again with wider wheel rims for the 32mm tyres.
I've been on the fence of swapping from 28 to 30/32 for a month now, think I'll take the shot. Thanks for taking the time to educate us. You guys rock.
What’d you go with?
Any update on what you ended up going with?
The 28 feels faster and more manageable. I used a panaracer gravelking ss.
I've been riding 30c Schwalbe g-one speed tubeless on my road bike for 5 years. It's got comfort and versatility, which has served me really well on 100+ mile rides. But I also just got aero wheels and went with 28 in that case.
I moved from 25 to 28 when I changed my old wheels to the new zipp 303s, as the rim is wider, it's optimized for 28mm tyres, so I got a pair of gp5000STR. It changed the bike for much better, wide hookless rim, wider tyres and much lower pressures, made my bike faster and more comfortable.
Have you done a caliper measure for what actual width is installed on the 303S with 28? I am guessing 30?
This experiment would have been more interesting to have two pressures for each tire wide. The vibration loss is dependent on road roughness. The tire pressure choice in the video may not be optimal for the given road condition. It may be that 32 mm at 60 psi has a lower resistance (power requirement) than 28 mm at 60 psi. Would be an interesting topic for the next video.
Absolutely
Yes need identical tire pressure in both tires. Bad test
My new Trek came with 32c tubeless tires, and it's made me so much happier riding. The increased comfort and the feel of increased stability makes a night and day difference. I don't feel any slower at all compared to my old 25c tube tires on my older bike. Couldn't recommend wider tires more to anyone who will listen.
I just switched from 25mm to a 28 mm front and 32mm rear, never going back to narrower tires, the comfort and stability far outweigh whatever the speed difference is.
When I was 75kg about 20 years ago I ran 23mm at 120psi on my road bike because that's what everyone else in my ride group did. I started riding again a few years ago after a ~10 year hiatus. Now I'm 90kg and in "desk worker shape." I started back using 28mm at 100psi, but had to drop to 25mm at 105psi for the front tire because of narrow ancient fork clearance limits. It's still a very noticeable improvement over the old 23s, especially since I'm not trying for "(perceived) speed at all costs" anymore.
Recently I've been riding my old hybrid bike that seems like a gravel precursor. It has 40mm American Classic Lamplighters on it at ~55psi. I'm mostly riding crappy urban pavement with curb drops and some dirt sections. 40mm is like a nice floaty dream on that stuff. It is a bit sluggish on smooth pavement though.
All of this is on old narrow rims, so the tire contact patches are probably smaller than what normal modern kit would produce.