It's easy to be a luddite, Especially to us British, compared to our European neighbours we are easily 6 years behind when it comes to ebikes and their usage ( don't even get started on wine, coffee, food and lifestyle) BUT since the year dot progress is progress and will not be stopped. Value ??? When in the real world has value EVER had anything to do with cycling!! for most of us who cycle for competition/ pleasure/relaxation/fitness/companionship/and our mental health ??Have the best you can have when it comes to your best bicycle, because this is your passion and also it's mental & physical health. and those two things you can't put a pound sign on . If ( and i get it ) the feel of something mechanical that is perfectly adjusted floats your boat then yes go for cable operated , and also the maintenance / tuning of it may also hold pride & contentment ..... BUT in that case IF something working perfectly does float your boat then electronic shifting DOES work perfectly EVERYTIME. And where you wont be needing to maintain it , you can spend that time instead playing with the settings which are almost infinite to get it perfected for you and your riding style instead, OR the next ride that you are planning . ELECTRONIC shifting is simply the way to go .
Smilebikes, you have it. Everything you say here is what this video is all about. I especially like the point "" I think I'll pin your comment. Oh, and coffee, buy an Italian machine, and import the beans........ However, I suspect you already know and do that 😉
@pierrex3226 the entire history of cycling has been about Independance and Access. It would appear the industry is hell bent on removing both. "Craft beer" bullsh*t
I've been riding for nearly 60 years and have never broken a gear cable. However I've been knocked off a few times and fallen off more than a few times and prefer the cost of mechanical replacements rather than the expense of electronic components. I'll stick with mechanical. It just works.
Only cable that has ever failed on me is on my first cheap 10-speed as a pre-teen. One does not need to shift on descents very much if at all. Only when the descent flattens or transitions to uphill. My '89 Bianchi has never needed a cable change. Never broken a derailleur. This guy is full of it when talking about reliability. Mechanical is absolutely reliable.
@@ParadyVEVO Umm... when I was much younger, I could get my Royal (old gas pipe Sturmey Archer 3 speed) up to 43km/h briefly on the flats assuming no wind, and I was no pro or elite amateur racer. The only change was pedals with clips and straps. Sadly that youth has long passed.
I used to have ultegra Di2 until one day my bike fell over from leaning against a wall; rear mech never worked again. Went back to mechanical, never been happier.
@@KBKriechbaum the difference being I'd expect my bike to still work after falling over but I wouldn't expect your car to still work after being under a tree.
@@kieron88ward Well, the point is that rear mech is fragile in general, has nothing to do with DI2. If you bend it, every rear mech will give you troubles until you fix it or replace bent part. Often the hanger. Making it tough enough to survive every fall is like making a car tough enough to survive the tree, not feasible.
Im still on 10 speed ultegra and 11 speed aram GX. Its absolutely great. No charging, no batteries running flat because a strap was over the shifter button. I can fix and service cable my self and it is a lot cheaper. Electronic might be a bit better, but its not for me.
Have tried DI2 and etap and yeah it is easy and works, but still using Ultegra 6800 mechanical. Just prefer the feel of shift manually, if that is the word to describe it. And I know alot of guys on electric that shift poorly and are noisy due to poor maintenance in regard to chains, jockey wheels and basic cleaning.
@@hgm8337 yeah, to be fair I charge my watch up to ride and lights as needed to keep riding through the winter, but its just another thing to keep charged up.
I've been cycling 50+ years. I have never had a gear cable break or had one that needed replacing or any maintainence, outside of the end of it getting frayed. There are people on a mission in this World to introduce complexity, when simplicity is the way to go.
@@ribblevalleycyclistI'm pretty sure I never changes a shift cable on my Trek 1400. Of course, that bike had downtube shifters and a very clean and simple cable run. I've replaced cables just for good measure when doing maintenance or more often when putting an older bike back into riding shape. Never due to breakage. In fact, I recently tossed out some"new" cables because they'd been sitting around so long unused that they started to rust a bit. Maybe modern system that use tight bends in the cable path cause greater wear that leads to breakage. If so, then that's just poor design.
I've switched from a 2x to a 1x mechanical groupset and I gotta say, some of the downsides of mechanical shifting are taken care of by that. It's so much easier to index the gears now and takes about a minute. And since I'm a weekend warrior I don't care much about the performance. If it works, it works. What I do care about is availability and affordability of parts. So I guess I'll stick with mechanical for a while.
Kudos to this post. I am an old rider using mechanical. I prefer the feel and force it takes to actuate the levers and I can service them all myself. I still have a mean handshake at 60yrs and am not a fan of electronic shifters or disc brakes. I can already lock up and skid with rim brakes just fine. Thank you for the content!
Hi BH, Thanks, glad you liked it..... and glad to read you've still got a mean handshake 🤣 On the subject of electronic/mechanical and rim/disc…… For me, both have their place, so both should be manufactured. However, it’s all about the profit. Thanks for watching. Jon
Locking the wheels is not the sign of a good braking system. You can push disc brakes harder than rim pads and the wheels don't skid. The bike decelerates in a controlled manner.
@westinthewest no, but the ABILITY to lock the wheels is a good sign of an efficient braking system. What you say about pushing disc brakes harder than rim brakes is simply not true. It all depends on the TYRES.
I'm almost 50 yo now and got a SRAM Force etap. Money can buy happiness... I might not be faster, but I simply love the electronic sequential shifting. Cheers!
Same here. I love SRAM Force, especially in sequential. The little noise it makes when automatically shifting the front mech never gets old. I recently bought a bike with Di2. I think eTap is easier because there's one small paddle, not two, especially in winter with thicker gloves, but still love it. I don't mind paying the extra $ knowing I'll still cruise along at the same speed as a mechanical groupset, but it's still nice! 🙂
I'm a 77 yo for whom fiddling with mechanicals is part of the fun. My main bike is a 2003 Lemond Tormelet. The mix of 105 and Deore 3x7 shifts perfectly. One can do the micro shift on front mech by adjusting the limit screw just past the resting shift position. In fact, that's essential for a good shift. It helps to have robust hands. My mate with hand arthritis does have Di2 and loves it. He has had all the issues mentioned. Dead battery, intermittent cable issues, etc. When dust had fouled his chain so the rear stopped shifting we did not consider a mechanical issue till getting the bike on a stand. This is he best review of the issues I've seen.
Hi Bruce, Thanks for your comments. A 2003 Lemond Tourmalet..... nice! It's good that your pal with arthritis gets to ride still, maybe thats when electronic is good? Thanks again, Bruce 👍
While you mentioned that electronic shifting is more certain, one thing I have noticed on my daily 13 mile each way commute across London is that the shifting certainty means that I change gear more often, I don't sit in the "wrong" gear anymore because changing gear is so reliable. My speed is slightly increased and my perceived effort is reduced.
I loved my 1970 Cinella full campy downtube levers, five speed cassette, tubular tires ( oh the glorious sound of silk tires humming at speed), rim brakes, and quick release with drop outs that did NOT need the skewers to be turned. The wheel just drops out. In the early days we did not even have speedometers! The most noticeable improvement in tech are the clipless pedals and shoes vs toe clips😊
I met a professional rider who was fuming at the way the electronics failed at a crucial stage of a race. He said, stuff the sponsors...when I'm in race mode, I want bullet proof reliability. And that is cable connected gear changes.
@@pierrex3226 Nonsense... Mechanical s faster, period. The only limitation, and that goes for all systems and methods is the rotational speed of the drive train.
@@chaosengine3772 even if one or the other is faster, the question should be how much faster? The next question should be how much this small difference would make for 99% of riders? I don't see the payoff being their for most.
I've ridden for 30 years. Mechanical shifting is absolutely fine. For gravel riding a battery is something else to fail. For me mechanical shifting is fine
Until you test electronic.. I've been riding for 35 years too but last year got my first Di2. 6000km on the new bike and my next one will be Di2 as well. Well, we all get old and start telling youngsters how things in the past were better... NOT HERE, Di2 offers a much better riding experience, less hassle and very easy to set up. Concerning the battery, we all have gamins, yahoo, lights etc to charge. So an extra device makes no difference.
Nice perspective. The 2 genuinely high level racers I know, though, both run mechanical. Their bikes go in and out of cars/vans every weekend, and they've both had issues with batteries dying and/or finding themselves trying to diagnose an electronic gremlin at 1am in a hotel room. They both agree Di2 is objectively better, but it's once bitten, twice shy.
Tried electronic for 2000kms & compared to mechanical couldn't wait to get rid of it. Main cons: gotta regularly recharge, more expensive, replacement parts cost more, less connected with the bike...For the professional peloton it makes sense but for casual & leisure cyclists it's overkill imho
My sentiments exactly. Although I have never tried electronic shifting, I am sure it is superior; but how good does it need to be? My GRX mechanical in conjunction with Jagwire Pro shifts wonderfully well.
If you link the electronic groupset with your headunit, it'll prompt you when the batteries are almost dead, and when you do get the prompt, you still have 10% remaining. Offcourse, if you ignore that or don't link it, it's your own fault that it died because of an empty battery. Yes it's more expensive, but maintenance free and will deliver a perfect shift every time. That for me is enough to go electronic I even use di2 on my indoor bike for 3 years now, oh yes, no more damaged cables becasue of the sweat. No need to adjust cable tension or replace cables. Never had an empty battery
@@klaasv88 don't have or need a headunit or ride indoors or had cables damaged due to sweat. I was able to monitor the battery level via phone app. I used electronic shifting to see what all the fuss was about & to give it the benefit of the doubt. Felt it like a gimmick. I prefer the lever throw to shift gears rather than press buttons. As I said earlier with electronic shifting I felt less connected to the bike. I ride approximately 15000kms per year & mechanical shifting with rim brakes has made me very happy for the last 80000kms.
I ride a Specialized Roubaix Comp with SRAM Rival eTap shifting. SRAM has two advantages over Shimano, in my opinion. First, there is but one shift lever under each brake lever, so there is no fussing about trying to find the smaller level like with Di2. Second, if you do not check battery levels frequently enough and get caught on the road with a dead battery (and it WILL happen, hopefully only once!), it will be the one on the rear derailleur that is used more frequently. At this point, one merely selects the front chain wheel one uses more (the large if you are like me and do not do enormous hills!) then swap the batteries on the front and rear derailleurs, which will allow you to continue to shift on the cassette and get home, hopefully not letting it happen again! I upgraded to this bike last year from a 2018 Roubaix and do not regret it for a moment!
Never had a problem finding the buttons on my Di2 Ultegra. Even with thick gloves. That being said I'm fine with my mechanical bikes too so I don't think electronic shifting is such a big upgrade anyway.
I now have 2 Di2 bikes. I’ll never go back to mechanical. If you like mechanical then don’t change. I’m almost 61 and it’s just so much easier for me to ride with electronic shifting.
Ive got over 60 high end bikes from 12spd DA to 9spd record. Main thing is a straight hanger and properly tuned gears. Best groupset overall is 7800. IYKYK.
Hey Durianrider, Thanks for paying my little channel a visit 👍 Ain't gonna disagree with any of that...... Not sure I like the idea of maintaining 60 bikes though 😬 Thanks, Jon
While I don't regret going electronic on my Road Bike I admit to being a little underwhelmed by Di2. I never had issues with shifting or setting up mechanical, I actually quite like setting up/indexing gears. Never had a cable snap that I can remember, had a SRAM force return spring go once, took me a while to figure out why my rear mech' was automatically climbing the cassette! I think I listened to much to the "YOU CAN NEVER GO BACK" people and expected to blown away but at the end of the day, you push a thing, and a thing moves a chain that's it! I know there's "synchro" and auto trim but I've been shifting 2X for 30 years my brain and muscle memory does that. I'll admit it shifts better and I like the satellite buttons for when I relax on the tops and settle into a long climb, (I'm one of the 3 or 4 people on the planet that purchased the Garmin remote who didn't hate it so I don't care about that function) but for me its just not the game changer or deal braker I expected and I'm not clambering to upgrade my mech' bikes any time soon. I have a similar opinion on Rim Vs Disc Brakes, but being a 54kg whippet, I suspect Sir Isaac Newton has something to do with that one 😆
Hi Bikey McBeardface. Loved reading your thoughts.... a logical brain-dump from an experienced cyclist. I agree on all points. When it matters the most, there is no difference....... when you're shoving it along a long straight road, or climbing up 20% climb, it doesn't matter whether you've got Claris or Di2 Dura Ace, what matters is your effort..... and that the gear change happens if you need one. For me, the one thing I like is that I can flip between head unit screens..... So it's a lot to pay for such a small feature, and as you say, use the remote. One thing I should've mentioned in this video is the art of maintaining a bike. After all, any idiot can connect a Bluetooth device, or plug something in, but building a mechanical groupset is a skill we may lose. Maybe one day I'll do that rim disc video thats in my head! Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
It is worth it. Let’s embrace the goodness of new technology. I was agains electronic systems until I try it and I love it. Now I want it in all my bikes.
You have the right point of view. Here are some sidenotes: I never shifted faster then on a Campagnolo Super Record of the 70's/80's and with one hand I could change indexless front and rear derailleur (53-13 to 42-18) - this was also (due to cage design) the best shifting system on cobblestone Criterium Races. I tried this SunTour special parallelogram shifting - super smooth (todays standard). Later I bought my 10-speed Centaur with Index = more gears, but no bigger speed penalties (and good jumps - super important when descending fast or adopt to a group or attack). My new bike is a Decathlon AF Centaur 11s - a real insult of shifting, but dirt cheap (830 €). Btw, another point is cold weather and electronics - minus 20 degree Celsius is the limit - I have ridden bikes in colder weather (here in Berlin, Germany). In addition to the shifting something about Disc Brakes - don't invest in them (even it has better performance and cooler rims), when you are not willing to add the costs of the tools (estimated 400 €).
I picked up a tt bike with di2 last year and it’s made my road bike with mechanical borderline unrideable because the electronic is just so much better. Perfect shift every time, it just never messes up. I get so aggravated on my road bike having to feather the shifter to try to micro adjust when it mis-shifts. Now I’m in the market for a used di2 groupo so that I’m not so mad on my road bike 😂
Creating this video has taught me that the vast majority of people that take issue with electric shifting........ don't have, and never have used electric shifting.
I thought I don’t need it, but now that I have it I don’t want to go back to old tech. I absolutely love it. As a matter of fact, I also bought a mountainbike with electronic shifting.
I just got my first bike with an electronic groupset, and I will never go back to mechanical. In terms of batteries, there is an easy solution: Use SRAM electronic group sets, such as Rival (most affordable), Force or Red (most expensive), rather than Di2. The SRAM batteries are way cheaper and easier to replace and charge. In fact, that was one of the reasons I got SRAM, including the ability to take a spare battery on my long rides. Regarding the difference in price point of mechanical vs electronic group sets, that is just part of the game, save for an extra couple of months and enjoy! Life is short!
@@harrywang2566 I never heard of that, but if true, the spare battery would be very helpful. The only time I would stop for coffee would be during the "Ride to Conquer Cancer" or similar events, where they provide food. But on situations like that my bike would be attached to my hip at all times, since I had a Garmin watch stolen from my bike many years ago. My point is that carrying a small 20 grams battery is not a big deal when I go for the 100km+ bike ride alone - my preferred type as I don't have to wait for weaker riders or try to follow the stronger ones and I can enjoy my pain in solitude. LOL
I use mechanical 105 shifting. I've done test rides on bikes with electronic shifting. I guess it's fine but I just don't get what the big deal is. People act like it's this huge upgrade and I'm like, meh. I think I'm just old fashioned. If I can use a bike with no electronics: no power meter, no bike computer, no electronic shifting, then that's what I'm going to do. I like having a bike be a purely mechanical, relatively simple machine.
@@jean-paullanglois5452di2 is far easier to maintain than mechanical though. It's literally set and forget. You don't ever have to index or change cables or adjust.
@@out_spocken It's not "literally" set and forget, is it, though? Because you literally have to remember to charge the very literal battery, or it literally won't work. Not to mention the periodical software upgrades, some of which literally require you to wire the "wireless" shifters to the battery (or take to a LBS/buy an expensive black box) to install them, despite Shimano literally promising this would not be the case by now.
@@chris1275cc It's set and forget mate. Come on. My battery lasts 6 months. I check my tube pressure before every ride and consider them very much set and forget. Sure not 'literally' but it'd be more 'literally set and forget' than a mechanical gear cable that needs adjusting. (I've got no time for the very latest that requires people to charge their batteries every two weeks and also have dedicated shifter batteries...though I can appreciate a fully wireless system...or at least the lack of need to have cables) Software updates? Why? You don't need to upgrade unless you want something new. I've never updated my 6770 di2. Ever. If you do want a new function though...well...you pay for that...at least you can easily update the system...you can't update a mech system without paying for things like really good cables etc. Same same. Can't speak to the very latest wireless....but my second gen wired system has lasted 12 years with the only problem being when I broke a shifter...same issue would have existed with a mech shifter. Battery still lasts as long as it did when I bought it. I micro adjusted my mech shifter cables more than I charge my battery...and this is doing 20k a year. In fact...I have a bike sitting unsed at the moment because the gear cables have sheared off after being turrned left and right too much. So go figure.
Great discussion, thank you ! You slipped it a comment that may have gone past more then a few people, "if you are racing"... are you consistently operating at the top end of your fitness range and competing, you will want every available advantage, in that case, electronics and discs might be down your alley. Been on a bike and racing since the mid 70's, the technology back then obviously was very rudimentary, I remember seeing the first Regina 6 speed block and being excited. Everyone rode 531C frames and Campy, that's all there was to be. proper cyclist. STI changed everything, before that the phenomena of Look clip less pedals, I was first off the rank with both, what they did for my racing was amazing, out of the saddle and shifting... yow I've stayed with mechanical all this time, although I switched back to Campagnolo when Ergopower came out. I stopped racing ten years ago, I still train hard and put in the kms, but have yet to fins a substantial reason as to why electric shift would be of benefit to me now, I just don't need it.... I did, road test a top of the range Cervelo not that long ago with the SRAM group, tubeless tyres and all that palaver.... you know, it was okay.. nothing there to justify the eye watering price of either the complete bike, or the group. where I live, in Chiang Mai, has a robust and very active cycling community full of young turks, some very very good, who like to have their S Works, Pinarellos and Cervelos, with disc brakes and full Di2. And of course, the correct shoes and clothing. I'm digressing but the only real point is that, to me, my 11 speed Campy Chorus mechanical group works a treat, I can fix it myself if needed, rebuilding the shifters is easy, I have never yet been stuck out in the sticks praying for a phone signal ... Cheers, mate
Great read, Steve, thank you. Out of the saddle, and shifting...... You crazy kid 😉. As a lover og great engineering, Campagnolo is a beautiful thing. As I've said in other moments here, few 'Modern' cyclists know of the quality and simplicity that Campagnolo gives. One day I'll build up an old steel Pinarello, and fit it out with an old Campagnolo Record groupo.
I 100% prefer the mechanical shifting because of following reasons: - cheaper - more direct connection to your bicycle - no batteries to be charged - no batteries added to the mountain of waste
@@michastepien8326 None. Although, the true problem isn't the "mountain of E-waste", it's that there is no such thing as sustainable recycling. Even at imaginery 90% recycling rate, 94% of the original amount of material would be gone after only 26 cycles. And at 80% rate, 90% of the material would be gone only after 10 cycles. So, we should not waste any [precious] metals if we wish to continue using metals for thousands of years rather than say hundreds of years. And in this case, the true waste stream is composed of planet killing E-cars, concrete steel-reinforced buildings, other infrastructure, and numerous other hardly unrepairable gadgets.
I’m a di2 convert. It’s just great. Really is. I won’t be going back. Not sure why anyone would think a 1500 mile charge cycle would be a problem. Love the full synchro shifting. 👌🏻
I think it depends - as most things - on the use case. I would recommend it on road bikes as the shifting really is super smooth, no maintenance due to wore out cables, no adjustments anymore once it's setted up. (the battery is very long lasting and durable as well) But I wouldn't recommend it for gravel/offroad bikes as it seems a bit fragile to me in case of falling down or collisions with roots or whatever...
I held out against wireless shifting and disc brakes for years. Until last week. I bought a new Trek Domane --- and I absolutely love the Ultegra Di2 and hydraulic disc brakes. The difference is even greater than it was when moved from friction shifters on the downtube to indexed shifting. It's a massive improvement
Great vid. Short answer to the question: Yes, it's worth it to upgrade to electronic. I've never had a dead battery, it shifts the same way every time, and it's far easier to shift while you're in the middle of an effort, or braking. No brainer.
One thing I've learned from this video is that hand fatigue is a big issue for long rides that electronic overcomes. Thanks for watching and commenting.
I don't know how anyone can say you get hand fatigue from shifting. I can shift with barely any force with my pinky. I've tried it multiple times. I have ultegra 11spd. If it hurts your hand to shift a road bike, you are insanely frail and need to take some testosterone or something.
@@Silidons91Rubbish. My left wrist totally disagrees. Especially in the winter and especially when you do a lot of big-small-big chainrings shifting. No mech grouppo works as good as the Di2 P.S. I REALLY want to see a vid of you shifting small->big chainrings on a mech Ultegra using your pinky only. 😂
The questions "is it worth it" and "do you need it" are impossible to answer. It depends on your preferences and what you had to do to get the extra money. All I can say is that I just got a bike with SRAM Rival electronic shifting, and I love it! I've got it in sequential mode, so it changes the front derailleur automatically to avoid cross chaining. Not having to think about cross chaining is surprisingly enjoyable. I don't have to think about what cog I'm in on the back, If it's too easy to pedal hit the right shifter, if it's too hard hit the left shifter. That's it! Blip blip! It makes riding fun and makes me want to go ride, so it's doing it's job.
Having just bought a bike with mechanical as my electric group set bike broke I can definitely say I’m swapping back to electric as it crisper changes and easier to change on hills.
Absolutely worth every penny. On my 22 day tour. I was the only one with ZERO mechanical issues. And yes, poor shifting and broken shifter cables were seen in other traditional bikes.
If you choose a SRAM electronic group set you could very easily change the batteries when they are worn out and if one battery goes dry during your ride you can change it with the other battery and still be able to change your rear gears and you can take the batteries of and charge them inside.
As I write this comment, I'm sitting at 11 22 in time in the video . Had this thought that I've learned more from this video that you made. Then I have in years and years of watching GCN. I'm just saying great job make more 🤯.
Thank you, Justin. Had to watch the video at 11:22, just to see where you were when you came to this conclusion!! Don't tell Simon or Ollie at GCN, they'll be most upset 🤣
Downside of electronic is your locked into a techno trap of needing a phone or device, internet, accounts, firmware updates, the money for all of those things. I feel it leads to more expensive bikes overall. Plus if your like me and tech minimalist like myself sort of locks you out of that's product. Comes from my experience of not having a job for a bit and needing cheap transport to get back onto my feet financially.
Yup. Same with Shimano di2. 130k on the clock. No issues and nothing needed bar a shifter that I crashed when falling off the bike. Battery after 11 years still only needs a charge twice a year and that's after sitting locked away for 4 years not being used after a major cbike accident..of which the hearing on the bike was fine@@jazemkrzysio
I bought an electronic rear derailleur (SRAM GX AXS) for my MTB. It’s works well and is solid enough, but… if you aren’t diligent, you can forget to charge or lose a battery. Then you’re screwed on a ride. The contacts springs on my derailleur failed and wouldn’t connect with the battery, creating problems on a ride. They warrantied the derailleur, but I wasn’t comfortable with the cons vs the pros. If you break the derailleur, it’s about $500 min to replace. I do love how it cleans up the bike and simplifies it (less cables, easy to remove and clean). I went back to mechanical and used Shimano SLX on my new bike. I don’t miss electronic. Rest assured, electronic is mostly about making much larger margins for the brands. Less about being that much better.
As a bike mechanic, I can tell you my main problem with electronic groupsets is availability, and maintain ability. Why make something but not make enough replacement parts. And the comparability!! It’s electronic they should all be compatible. You should be able to use Ultegra 10 speed Di2 FD with the latest ultegra groupset it’s just a solenoid!!! Their software is crap…
Using a GRX 800 groupset on my main bike. Works perfectly. Other than occasionally changing a cable, it has been flawless. I also believe in keep it simple.
I have a Shimano 11 speed. electronic switching. I recently switched to this type of switching. But I can say that compared to the mechanics, the electronic group works clearly. For me, the difference is palpable. The only minus of this system is the price.
I've been riding for 60 years and always embraced new tech, index gears (remember them?), brake shifters and now electronic gears. I've used etap for six years now with not a single problem. Price, don't care! Batteries, I carry a spare but have never used it. Shifting in the cold is dead easy. I am a minimalist so love the lack of stuff you get with etap. No cables on the bars, no cables in the frame or near the wheels. I wish I'd had them when I was racing in Yorkshire back in the day. I was always missing the break up the hill cause I couldn't find the right gear, at least that was my excuse.
@@ribblevalleycyclist I had a derailleur failure, on my old Tiagra last year. Awkward as it’s different pull ratios from the newer Tiagra, but my local bike shop replaced it with an old 10 speed Ultegra derailleur they had left over from someone’s bike upgrade. Absolute bargain price and shifts better than ever. That would never happen with electronic!
Electronic + Wireless like what you get with SRAM on a Triathlon Rig is a game changer where you can have multiple points to have gear changers to maintain your position.
SRAM Rival is my setup. The biggest help I've had with it that I didn't anticpate, was the rear being totally wireless makes it really easy to remove the mech when I pack my bike for travel.
I run a mix of Rival (FD), Red (RD), and Force (Shifters). Incredible difference to my experience with mechanical over the years. Shifts flawlessly every time. Perfect too if you’re not comfortable servicing gear cables and making adjustments on a regular basis. Very reliable so far and the battery lasts a long time.
I've ridden both SRAM and Shimano for years. I wouldn't describe SRAM shifting as flawless. In races you're always missing shifts or shifting too far. Shifting up the cassette is like an old school friction shifter with sram.
Real world observation: Retired former amateur racer who spends appx. 3 months riding full time in the desert and nearby mountains in southern California. Every day I do a few hrs at least, many days are group rides much longer and at good pace, with lots of good riders, mostly well equipped. Since the electric shifting has been around, I personally have been with 4 dead battery people on remote rides. I've also had 4 or 5 friends show up on their old mechanical rim brakes..."Had to order a ______. It will be here in a month from_______(Name the manufacturer and country). There is no bike shop within 60 miles, so personally I always have spares for my Old school equipment and sometimes I have to fix things. But I never have to drive my bike to the city and leave it to be fixed by a technician. I don't have to find a power source for battery charging or a clean inviornment to bleed brakes. I just ride, every day the weather allows. Yes, I tune my Ultegra 8000 fairly often, but I'm a perfectionist when it comes to my bike. Yes, I replace the cables often because mine aren't inside the frame and it can be done during morning coffee. One amusing thing I've found is in a group ride, everyone usually takes the front for a bit, but I tease my Aero bike buds and tell em, "Hey, you got 15 extra Watts now, get out there".…Doesn't work, but worth trying..😊
Great video, thanks. Far better than the GCN tech coverage of the same subject. However... two things really. 1) Cost. At £750 more than mechanical, for bikes under £3K that most of us ride, it is going to mean significantly poorer components elsewhere, where it matters more: frame, wheels. 2) Complexity and Reliability. Less complex is better (always) - and simplicity is the essence of bicycle design. More complexity = less reliability (always). electronics anywhere on a bicycle is less reliable in the long term - so I don't agree with you on this. Over several years of riding in all weathers water gets in to Di2 connections and components, and then they die, usually suddenly, and you need new ones = complex and £big. On a mechanical the shifting gets gradually worse, so you notice and you put in new inner cables = easy and £small. Over recent years watching/riding/supporting the Fred Whitton I have seen loads more DNF than previously - almost all due to Di2 failures and not flat batteries either.
These are all valid points you bring, Robin. I too worry about electronic in poor weather, thats why I only use it on my summer/fine bike. For gravel, training, touring, workhorse, cargo, I use mechanical. Fred Whitton.... Only ever done it once, that is where that photo was taken, as I'm sure you worked out.
I've got Sram etap, had it amazingly 5yrs, I got it as I really wanted it then, I love the logical left easy right hard aspect of shifting. Whereas di2 keeps the mechanical aspect; right rear up and down the back gears and left front gears - for me, the Sram stuff is better. I'm still getting a month out of it and even I'm amazed, still at every shift, tho it's reduced but theirs nothing like it 👌
I have a mix, so I just program the Di2 bikes to shift Sram-like. Of course, the FD is a bit different and occasionally catches me out when I try to double click on the Di2.
I saw no purpose for electronic shifting until I got a bike that came with it. Now that I use it, I absolutely love it. Effortlessly shifting, no missed shifts, no adjusting. Would not want to go back to mechanical.
I was actually dismissing electronic shifting as a gimmick. After seeing all the advantages here, I am starting saving up for one. Even though it's a lot of money extra, I think it's worth it, when you get older like me with a little arthritis.
A well set up and maintained 105 11s works flawlessly. The main problem is the drive to internal cables leaving a tortuous route from shifter to mech that just adds resistance and inaccuracies develop. I'm even using TRP compressionless cables and TRP Spyre brakes and they work perfectly too. There is one situation whereby I could give SRAM kudos and that's for going wireless, and the ability to mix and match road STI's with MTB derailleurs so if you want to tune your gearing for where you live it's simple, no silly long b-screws and mech extenders and all those bodges...
You get my vote, Barry. Not gonna disagree with a single point you make there. 105, still a fantastic bit of kit, and you'll find 3 bikes in my stable running it.
I am too disabled to use mechanical shifting and side pull brakes. I had to stop in 2014 because I could no longer ride *down* hills. But I bought a crazy expensive Specialized S-Works Diverge ($8500 for Di2 + hydraulics in 2015), and that next year I rode 20,000km. As to wearing electronic doodads out: even though I wear out carbon bikes, I’ve never worn out a Di2 part (I average around 15,000km/year). I did break a SRAM Red front derailleur once but it was due to my bad hands stripping an Allen head bolt. My opinion, for what it’s worth (and this is what I tell my friends who are thinking about going electronic): you don’t need it unless you’re disabled like me. It’s super nice and I highly recommend it if you can afford it, but otherwise don’t bother.
I have a red etap 22 on my Cannondale. The Problem is the battery. The Sram shifting is much more intuitive than Shimano and you cannot mistake. And in the winter battery will got empty earlier. The Ultegra 8000 was the best Groupset I ever had.
Normally you can swap the front battery to the rear, as front derailer battery tend preserve more juice because rear derailer gets used more often when riding.
Yes but the batteries are cheaper for Sram etap axs and it’s so easy to check your battery status just press the button on each derailleur if it’s a solid green light your good to go if it flashes red charge the battery it’s not difficult to do that the day before each ride is it?
I need auto-shifting with double clutches, emergency brake assist, lane assist, heated seat, distance warner, and a 12 inch touch screen on the handlebar!
"Does it make your life easier?" Was pretty much all I needed to hear! 😆 (I already migrated half of my bikes to SRAM Eagle AXS anyway, but still nice to hear it should stay easier, because everything always works fine when new. 😉)
I lost 4 fingers off my left hand and had the ultegra installed. Bluetooth and everything. I very rarely use the bluetooth. But the ease of sliding my pinky stump (at the first knuckle) to change gears had made this completely beneficial.
I’ve ridden DI2 for the last few years alongside Dura Ace 9100 mechanical. I tended to choose the mechanical bike as I prefer the ergonomics of the hoods and the gear changes are just as smooth. I’ve now sold both DI2 bikes and have gone mechanical on all my bikes. Gear cables with a modern group set are totally reliable and never need adjustment. There is no worry about electronics packing up like a Dura Ace lever did on me. The amount of times I’ve been on group rides and someone’s battery goes flat, it last happened last weekend.
I ride in a fairly salty road group, traded in my Cervelo S3 11 speed mechanical for a Cervelo Caledonia 5 with sram e tap 12 speed. Electronic shifting is instantaneous front and back. This helps immensely when riding with a fast pace road group, especially attacking hills. You are spot on, the e tap is totally brainless, just discovered your Chanel and am subscribing, keep up the good work👍✌🏼
Hi PACFAN, Sounds like you're enjoying that new Cervelo! Mechanical is great, have it on my winter bike. But when you just don't need the hassle, electric is the way. Thanks for the sub 👍
One of the joys for me on a bike is mechanically moving those derailleurs and feeling the shifts. For me it's all about being part of the machine not just about being an operator.
You're symbiotic with your mechanical bike no more than an electronic one. You did not select the alloys. You did not draw the drawings. You did not write the assembly instructions. You did not 5 axis the parts. You did anodize, etch, metallize whatever the components. You didn't paint them. You couldn't have imagined them. And neither could I. So you, nor me, are or ever be "part of the machine". You need to actually irl try di2 and to stop this gaslighting nonsense about mechanical. Di2 is insane and I wish people had told me sooner
But...but..but....That's a totally different thing there!! Manual in a car means you control when to shift. More RPMS is good! On the bike, it may be a motor moving the derailleur, but you still have to make it do it! @@dentatusdentatus1592
I ride a bike with downtime shifters and recently got a chance to ride a bike with ultegra mechanical, during a fast group ride, and I have to say the smoother shifting ability definitely makes me faster!
@@ribblevalleycyclist Campy Ergo Power did too! Recall there was also indexed downtube shifters for years before they reach the brake levers. It was all about the timing, stability and control differences from moving the hand, looking down or feeling the downtube shifters. From integrated brake-shifters, you have instant dumping of gears in mid sprint while having full control (even when braking) of the bike. No looking down or fumbling tight in a pack, following a wheel. That made a difference to how sprints were won.
Glad to have found you, and after watching your video ,I will be stopping with my 10s 105 group set, simple to fix , cheap to repair and easy live with.
And that Paul, is exactly why I make these videos. The idea is to tell you what you need to know, and for you to make your own mind up. Thanks, appreciate it 👍
Nice explanation, can definitely see the pluses of electronic shifting. I prefer mechanical Ultegra. 40+ years cycling, never had or seen a cable break.
I changed to electronic wireless shifting. Benefits: no cables anymore, no temperature issue with cable tension anymore. You set it up once and it is always accurate, shifting is fantastic especially when you do a technical curvy road and you need slow down and speed up, and the compensation shifting when you change gear at front then rear gears are adjusted. I will never go back to mechanical.
I'm convinced that electrtronic shifting is better than my mechanical ones. And I could easily afford to upgrade. But the price to go from very good to a tiny bit better just does not seem worth it.
DI2 is allready over 10 years old. Professional cyclists use it because of the precision, speed and adjustability of the system. Di2 offers advantages such as smooth shifting, precise transitions between gears and automatic adjustments for optimal chain tension.The electronic system is less susceptible to cable breaks and disruptions than traditional mechanical shifting systems. Di2 systems have LED lights (apps)that alert the cyclist to battery status and switching mode. If you don't live in a thirdworld country you will be fine getting replacement parts, nowadays you can order abroad. It is understandable that many people are concerned about the disappearance of craft skills in a world that is becoming increasingly automated and digitized. While advancement and technology offer many benefits, they can also lead to the loss of traditional crafts and skills that have often been passed on for generations. However, it is important to remember that technology and craft skills do not necessarily have to exclude each other. Modern technology can be used to improve, automate craft processes or offer new creative possibilities. So it is not so much a matter of 'hating', but rather of finding a balance between tradition and progress. Many people still appreciate the craftsmanship and authenticity that come with handmade products, and there are communities and initiatives that seek to maintain and promote craft skills. So as the world evolves, it's important to recognize and appreciate the value of both traditional crafts and modern technology.
Thanks, LiveLong. The big question I set out to answer, is does the 'Average' cyclist need electronic shifting...... and I think the answer is clearly 'No'. And the vast majority of electronic owners/users are also of the same opinion, or describe it as a luxury. Thanks, Jon
I will switch to electronic once it will become cheaper than mechanical. And trust me, it will. Currently it looks like the levers themselves are only slightly more expensive, but then the electronic shifters are signicantly more expensive. In order to fully reap the benefits of electronic it needs to be fully wieless! No half measures like the cables that you still need to run from shifters into the battery. So, in summary, we just need to wait a little longer, it is not the time yet.
SRAM somehow, has the patent on wireless, so until the patent runs out, Shimano licenses the patent (not likely) or figure a cleaver way around it, Shimano electronic users are stuck with wires for the foreseeable future. Shimano, although still selling the 11 speed 105 mechanical for the time being, quit offering anything but DI2 with everything 12 speed. So it's not a question of when it will become cheaper, as it will be the only game in town for higher end users. Although it's been their practice to discount groupsets when a newer version comes out, other than that I don't see them reducing prices. Take a look at when the CD came out as an example. Not counting R&D, the audio CD was a mere fraction of the cost to make than the audio cassette, but because it was a newer and better technology, the price of an album went up roughly 60-70%. It never really went down. It takes significantly more tooling & precision to manufacture mechanical groupsets, especially the shifters, than electronic, just as the audio cassette. Stake holders in companies won't allow huge savings to be passed on to consumers, when it can become extra profit. Personally, I'm rooting for underdogs like Microshift, to clean their clocks, with great value & performing mechanical groupsets, which mostly depends on bike companies equipping new bikes with their products. So far Advent X is showing up on quite a few new bikes. Of course with huge profit margins of SRAM & Shimano, the can HEAVILY discount components to bike makers, so it will be an uphill battle.
@@swray2112 This is another idea that I forgot to mention: mechanical includes more value (labour) by default, so should be cheaper by defintion, this the main reason I think eventually mechanical will be more expenisve and reserved for just mechanical shifting and retro bikes enthusiasts... but Shimano and SRAM are milking the cyclists as much as they can with cheap to produce electronic shifting. Capitalism in action.
Here's another hit for electric shifting:. My buddy was on his backup bike...He forgot to unplug his di2 when taking his other bike out of the van and that wrecked his rear derailleur. No longer able to charge it so it had to be replaced. He had to take the bike 70miles to the shop and they kept it while waiting for a replacement. 10 days later and another 70 miles, plus $500+ for the part. Not a thing with mechanical systems
For me, electronic is worth it. No chain rub, perfect shifting each and every time, no readjusting the derailleurs after a few months of use like I had to do with mechanical, no cables to replace, bike looks better, just to name a few. If you have the extra money to make the switch, you will not regret it. I have 11-speed Sram Red E-tap. Only had one time that a battery was drained due to excessive amount of riding between charges. This was not a problem - swapped the front battery with the rear one and I was good to go.
I love ultraendurance cycling, and after 1500km on my mechanical bike have numb hands with massively reduced power and dexterity. I couldn’t even shift anymore. I’ve just bought a new SRAM eTap bike, and love the featherweight shifting - add satellite shifting and I think this will be a game changer for my ultra riding experience.
My first electronic group set is Ultegra 11 speed Di2 on my 2022 bmc road machine. First road bike with discs and just love them both. Very rare does my campy 10 speed record mech equipped Ti bike get an outing these days. I keep the mech set in very good condition, recently replaced the cables etc, however the electronic set is just crisper, no hassles with the front derailleur, and over all I just prefer the feel of the shifts. I am 68, so have had a few group sets in my time . Each to their own though
Been riding Di2 for 8 years. Love it. The ultimate set and forget. Never had to adjust. Perfect shift everytime. As for the running out of battery issue. After 8 years and 40,000+ kms. I have had a flat battery the same number of times I've run out of petrol in 38 years of driving. Zero. Not hard to check the battery gauge and top up long before it gets to the danger zone. On the mechanical side. In the "old days", I've had gear cables break many times. While it didn't happen very often, when it did, it was hard to predict, and quite often left me with a 30km ride with limited gear options. While electronic may be more expensive, I love riding my bike, so why not pay a few more dollars and enjoy the care free, maintenance free ride. It's a relatively small extra cost for something I love, when comparing what we spend money in other aspects of life. Will never buy a bike with mechanical shifting again. Electronic all the way.
Honestly like, I had just started getting into road biking after mountain biking for several years and I got a rival axs, best choice I could’ve made. Small things like where I lay my hands my body position just having a high quality hood, not to mention the really good experience. Even as a beginner electric shifting can accelerate your progression like crazy, I would Absolutley upgrade to electronic you had the option
Do you find the Rival hoods slippery? I went from Force to Rival (bought a new bike and having swapped components yet) and these hoods are hella slippery when sweating. I’ve actually bought a pair of gloves, which I typically don’t use
@@HoldenDoesBikeStuff that’s odd cause I find some of the force hoods that I’ve tried are a little more slick than my rival ones lol. I can’t say they’re sloppy for me but that could just be the way that I’m holding them, I hardly ever grab them straight on I’m always either on the drops or in an aero position arms on the bars kind of thing
Ive had my Di2 since 2012 (used factory Demo bike). I absolutely prefer it over mechanical. The #1 reason is shifting is perfection and I can react quickly and change gears perfectly. I have never replaced the battery and a single charge lasts 4months of daily Zwifting (1500 kms). I have never damaged my Di2 or my bike for that matter. I don't crash. I ride only safely. Lol, so far!
I have Di2 since 2015 and I personally love it. Yes it can have small issues and can be mare for people new to it when these issues arrive. I do love that you can interchange Dura Ace, Ultegra, XTR, XT and GRX (talking 11 speed), to make you perfect set up. For example, on my road bike, I use the XT display. This shows my gear and battery status, so avoids and power issues. It also doubles up as the Wireless sender and junction port. Shame this is not on 12 speed as yet, so will stick with 11 in the meanwhile. I agree not cheap, but not changing now.
great video but I am not sold on electronic group sets. I have a mechanical Dura Ace rim brake bike from 2018 with over 29000 km of riding. The shifting and braking are bullet proof. Once a new shifter cable is fully stretched the shifting is very accurate, can be shifted under most loads and my brain is probably wired better than Di2 and I know how to trim the derailleurs subconsciously. I can multitask shift/brake when needed. And in almost every group ride with someone that has di2 or sram eshifting a battery die. I can swap wheels between my carbon and aluminum wheels and never need to adjust the barrel etc. It just works. Also, I do lots of back country riding on my gravel bike with SRAM mechanical and it is also bullet proof. On my 350km one day rides I need reliability and the ability to fix it trailside… I have yet to see that with electronic shifting. I hope one day Shimano will reintroduce a top of the line mechanical group set. I may be buying a bunch of mechanical Dura Ace brake levers and derailleurs to keep for when they are completely out of stock.
Hi Gene, I completely agree with every point you've made. Interestingly, if you read through the comments, the vast majority of people that claim their mechanical shifts just as well as electronic, run DA! And I'd agree with them, DA is just in another league. Also, people that run DA tend to maintain it well, so it tends to work well. Also agree with your gravel comments, I too run mechanical on gravel for the very same reason. Oh, and it looks like you've got some pretty interesting vids on your channel...... I'll go check it out! Thanks for watching, Jon
@@ribblevalleycyclist thanks Jon! I enjoyed a few of your videos too. It’s fun to come across someone with real world experience to learn from. I think I will have no choice but to get electronic shifting the next time I buy a new bike. 🤷🏻♂️ my friends with it love it until the batteries die. 😜 Also, I am so new to RUclips. Still learning my niche but mostly want to capture fun and epic ride videos.
What upsets me is the choice has been taken away. Manufacturers have 'decided' for us. It feels quite patronising as if we arent capable of deciding for ourselves. Sorry but i will stick with single speed. Manufacturers must really hate people who wont 'buy in'........
It's easy to be a luddite, Especially to us British, compared to our European neighbours we are easily 6 years behind when it comes to ebikes and their usage ( don't even get started on wine, coffee, food and lifestyle) BUT since the year dot progress is progress and will not be stopped. Value ??? When in the real world has value EVER had anything to do with cycling!! for most of us who cycle for competition/ pleasure/relaxation/fitness/companionship/and our mental health ??Have the best you can have when it comes to your best bicycle, because this is your passion and also it's mental & physical health. and those two things you can't put a pound sign on . If ( and i get it ) the feel of something mechanical that is perfectly adjusted floats your boat then yes go for cable operated , and also the maintenance / tuning of it may also hold pride & contentment ..... BUT in that case IF something working perfectly does float your boat then electronic shifting DOES work perfectly EVERYTIME. And where you wont be needing to maintain it , you can spend that time instead playing with the settings which are almost infinite to get it perfected for you and your riding style instead, OR the next ride that you are planning . ELECTRONIC shifting is simply the way to go .
Smilebikes, you have it. Everything you say here is what this video is all about. I especially like the point "" I think I'll pin your comment. Oh, and coffee, buy an Italian machine, and import the beans........ However, I suspect you already know and do that 😉
You obviously didn't watch the worlds or any major tour. They break down all the time
By "progress" you mean pointless consumerism and destruction of the planet?
1. Cycling used to not be expensive. 2. I can afford a pinarelo but will never buy one because I care about value.
@pierrex3226 the entire history of cycling has been about Independance and Access. It would appear the industry is hell bent on removing both. "Craft beer" bullsh*t
I've been riding for nearly 60 years and have never broken a gear cable. However I've been knocked off a few times and fallen off more than a few times and prefer the cost of mechanical replacements rather than the expense of electronic components. I'll stick with mechanical. It just works.
Not broken a gear cable in 60 years.... Wish I was that lucky!
Only cable that has ever failed on me is on my first cheap 10-speed as a pre-teen. One does not need to shift on descents very much if at all. Only when the descent flattens or transitions to uphill. My '89 Bianchi has never needed a cable change. Never broken a derailleur. This guy is full of it when talking about reliability. Mechanical is absolutely reliable.
Agree, not been going that long, probably 40ish, and I have never ever broken a shifter cable. Fallen and damaged shifters, mechs? Plenty.
The 11 speed Shimano shifters have a design flaw that makes it much easier to break the cables 😵
@@ribblevalleycyclistthat’s when preventive maintenance comes in. Change cables regularly before they break!
I have arthritis in my hands and installing DI2 made cycling fun again.
And for that reason alone, it's a great system. Glad you're enjoying your cycling again.
Is electronic shifting worth it? No.
Do I need it? No.
Do I want it? Yes!
Nobody needs a road bike. You could ride with an old granny bike. It's about how much you want to invest in your hobbies and comfort while doing it.
@@MK-je7kz Your old grannys bike wont let you reach speeds 40 km/h + unless you go downhill :D
@@ParadyVEVO you need to train harder to get the best out of your grannies bike.😂
@@ParadyVEVO Umm... when I was much younger, I could get my Royal (old gas pipe Sturmey Archer 3 speed) up to 43km/h briefly on the flats assuming no wind, and I was no pro or elite amateur racer. The only change was pedals with clips and straps. Sadly that youth has long passed.
@@MK-je7kzIf you’re riding for exercise then almost any bike will do. If you want yo go fast then yeah spend a lot of $$$.
I used to have ultegra Di2 until one day my bike fell over from leaning against a wall; rear mech never worked again. Went back to mechanical, never been happier.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing 👍
Was on my mind for Ultegra di2 , this comment change my mind
😀 I used to drive a car until one day a tree fell on it, never worked again. Went back to horse drawn carriage, never been happier.
@@KBKriechbaum the difference being I'd expect my bike to still work after falling over but I wouldn't expect your car to still work after being under a tree.
@@kieron88ward Well, the point is that rear mech is fragile in general, has nothing to do with DI2. If you bend it, every rear mech will give you troubles until you fix it or replace bent part. Often the hanger. Making it tough enough to survive every fall is like making a car tough enough to survive the tree, not feasible.
Im still on 10 speed ultegra and 11 speed aram GX. Its absolutely great. No charging, no batteries running flat because a strap was over the shifter button. I can fix and service cable my self and it is a lot cheaper. Electronic might be a bit better, but its not for me.
Have tried DI2 and etap and yeah it is easy and works, but still using Ultegra 6800 mechanical. Just prefer the feel of shift manually, if that is the word to describe it. And I know alot of guys on electric that shift poorly and are noisy due to poor maintenance in regard to chains, jockey wheels and basic cleaning.
Same here. I don't race, so what's good enough is good enough.
No charging a battery that lasts 6 months 😢😢😢 such a good point
battery charging, I'm too disorganised to pre-charge my battery prior to a spur of the moment run out
@@hgm8337 yeah, to be fair I charge my watch up to ride and lights as needed to keep riding through the winter, but its just another thing to keep charged up.
I've been cycling 50+ years. I have never had a gear cable break or had one that needed replacing or any maintainence, outside of the end of it getting frayed. There are people on a mission in this World to introduce complexity, when simplicity is the way to go.
So, let make sure I’ve got this right. You’ve been cycling for 50+ years, and you’ve never maintained, replaced or snapped a gear cable?
@@ribblevalleycyclistI'm pretty sure I never changes a shift cable on my Trek 1400. Of course, that bike had downtube shifters and a very clean and simple cable run.
I've replaced cables just for good measure when doing maintenance or more often when putting an older bike back into riding shape. Never due to breakage. In fact, I recently tossed out some"new" cables because they'd been sitting around so long unused that they started to rust a bit.
Maybe modern system that use tight bends in the cable path cause greater wear that leads to breakage. If so, then that's just poor design.
I've switched from a 2x to a 1x mechanical groupset and I gotta say, some of the downsides of mechanical shifting are taken care of by that. It's so much easier to index the gears now and takes about a minute. And since I'm a weekend warrior I don't care much about the performance. If it works, it works. What I do care about is availability and affordability of parts. So I guess I'll stick with mechanical for a while.
Thanks, Nick. The 1x mechanical standpoint is a good point.
Thanks for sharing.
Jon
Kudos to this post. I am an old rider using mechanical. I prefer the feel and force it takes to actuate the levers and I can service them all myself. I still have a mean handshake at 60yrs and am not a fan of electronic shifters or disc brakes. I can already lock up and skid with rim brakes just fine. Thank you for the content!
Hi BH,
Thanks, glad you liked it..... and glad to read you've still got a mean handshake 🤣
On the subject of electronic/mechanical and rim/disc…… For me, both have their place, so both should be manufactured. However, it’s all about the profit.
Thanks for watching.
Jon
Trust me once you have had disc brakes and electronic shifting you will not go back to crappy mechanical gears and rim brakes you just won’t.
@MrChippiechappie clearly, you never learnt how to set up rim brakes properly.
Locking the wheels is not the sign of a good braking system. You can push disc brakes harder than rim pads and the wheels don't skid. The bike decelerates in a controlled manner.
@westinthewest no, but the ABILITY to lock the wheels is a good sign of an efficient braking system. What you say about pushing disc brakes harder than rim brakes is simply not true. It all depends on the TYRES.
I'm almost 50 yo now and got a SRAM Force etap. Money can buy happiness... I might not be faster, but I simply love the electronic sequential shifting. Cheers!
I've got same experience... except of I'd swap my age with you if you O.K. ?
Same here. I love SRAM Force, especially in sequential. The little noise it makes when automatically shifting the front mech never gets old. I recently bought a bike with Di2. I think eTap is easier because there's one small paddle, not two, especially in winter with thicker gloves, but still love it. I don't mind paying the extra $ knowing I'll still cruise along at the same speed as a mechanical groupset, but it's still nice! 🙂
I love the feel of Mechanical shifting. its satisfying.
I'm a 77 yo for whom fiddling with mechanicals is part of the fun. My main bike is a 2003 Lemond Tormelet. The mix of 105 and Deore 3x7 shifts perfectly. One can do the micro shift on front mech by adjusting the limit screw just past the resting shift position. In fact, that's essential for a good shift. It helps to have robust hands. My mate with hand arthritis does have Di2 and loves it. He has had all the issues mentioned. Dead battery, intermittent cable issues, etc. When dust had fouled his chain so the rear stopped shifting we did not consider a mechanical issue till getting the bike on a stand.
This is he best review of the issues I've seen.
Hi Bruce,
Thanks for your comments. A 2003 Lemond Tourmalet..... nice!
It's good that your pal with arthritis gets to ride still, maybe thats when electronic is good?
Thanks again, Bruce 👍
While you mentioned that electronic shifting is more certain, one thing I have noticed on my daily 13 mile each way commute across London is that the shifting certainty means that I change gear more often, I don't sit in the "wrong" gear anymore because changing gear is so reliable. My speed is slightly increased and my perceived effort is reduced.
Interesting point 👍
Funny thing is, I notice the exact same thing when I finally upgraded from down tube shifters
Agreed and you don't have the urge to grind small hills up with the big ring because the front derailleur shifts so well.
You're right, I do shift more with electronic because I know it's easier to do it. I use more of the cassette.
Looking for an automatic shifting?
I loved my 1970 Cinella full campy downtube levers, five speed cassette, tubular tires ( oh the glorious sound of silk tires humming at speed), rim brakes, and quick release with drop outs that did NOT need the skewers to be turned. The wheel just drops out. In the early days we did not even have speedometers! The most noticeable improvement in tech are the clipless pedals and shoes vs toe clips😊
6 year DI2. Zero problems!!!
Ultegra mechanical for the win!
I met a professional rider who was fuming at the way the electronics failed at a crucial stage of a race. He said, stuff the sponsors...when I'm in race mode, I want bullet proof reliability. And that is cable connected gear changes.
Exactly
If this is an Argument then maybe you should only ride on indoor trainers.
Enjoy your ride!
I doubt many pros would choose mechanical, it's just slower to shift and awkward if you're sprinting for example. Split seconds matter for them
@@pierrex3226 Nonsense... Mechanical s faster, period. The only limitation, and that goes for all systems and methods is the rotational speed of the drive train.
@@chaosengine3772 even if one or the other is faster, the question should be how much faster? The next question should be how much this small difference would make for 99% of riders? I don't see the payoff being their for most.
I've had di2 for ages and even though mechanical was fun and tactile I'll never go back. Di2 for life.
well, good for you
Nah electric is lame af
Rather feel my clicks.
I've ridden for 30 years. Mechanical shifting is absolutely fine. For gravel riding a battery is something else to fail.
For me mechanical shifting is fine
Until you test electronic.. I've been riding for 35 years too but last year got my first Di2. 6000km on the new bike and my next one will be Di2 as well.
Well, we all get old and start telling youngsters how things in the past were better... NOT HERE, Di2 offers a much better riding experience, less hassle and very easy to set up. Concerning the battery, we all have gamins, yahoo, lights etc to charge. So an extra device makes no difference.
Nice perspective. The 2 genuinely high level racers I know, though, both run mechanical. Their bikes go in and out of cars/vans every weekend, and they've both had issues with batteries dying and/or finding themselves trying to diagnose an electronic gremlin at 1am in a hotel room. They both agree Di2 is objectively better, but it's once bitten, twice shy.
Thanks, JD, some good points there.
Tried electronic for 2000kms & compared to mechanical couldn't wait to get rid of it. Main cons: gotta regularly recharge, more expensive, replacement parts cost more, less connected with the bike...For the professional peloton it makes sense but for casual & leisure cyclists it's overkill imho
My sentiments exactly. Although I have never tried electronic shifting, I am sure it is superior; but how good does it need to be? My GRX mechanical in conjunction with Jagwire Pro shifts wonderfully well.
If you link the electronic groupset with your headunit, it'll prompt you when the batteries are almost dead, and when you do get the prompt, you still have 10% remaining. Offcourse, if you ignore that or don't link it, it's your own fault that it died because of an empty battery.
Yes it's more expensive, but maintenance free and will deliver a perfect shift every time. That for me is enough to go electronic
I even use di2 on my indoor bike for 3 years now, oh yes, no more damaged cables becasue of the sweat. No need to adjust cable tension or replace cables. Never had an empty battery
@@klaasv88 don't have or need a headunit or ride indoors or had cables damaged due to sweat. I was able to monitor the battery level via phone app. I used electronic shifting to see what all the fuss was about & to give it the benefit of the doubt. Felt it like a gimmick. I prefer the lever throw to shift gears rather than press buttons. As I said earlier with electronic shifting I felt less connected to the bike. I ride approximately 15000kms per year & mechanical shifting with rim brakes has made me very happy for the last 80000kms.
I’ve only charged my di2 twice this year and I ride around 100 mile a week. Not massive miles but the battery life isn’t an issue at least not on di2.
I ride a Specialized Roubaix Comp with SRAM Rival eTap shifting. SRAM has two advantages over Shimano, in my opinion. First, there is but one shift lever under each brake lever, so there is no fussing about trying to find the smaller level like with Di2. Second, if you do not check battery levels frequently enough and get caught on the road with a dead battery (and it WILL happen, hopefully only once!), it will be the one on the rear derailleur that is used more frequently. At this point, one merely selects the front chain wheel one uses more (the large if you are like me and do not do enormous hills!) then swap the batteries on the front and rear derailleurs, which will allow you to continue to shift on the cassette and get home, hopefully not letting it happen again! I upgraded to this bike last year from a 2018 Roubaix and do not regret it for a moment!
Yep, I just picked up the Roubaix SL8 Expert also with SRAM Rival and I love it.
Never had a problem finding the buttons on my Di2 Ultegra. Even with thick gloves. That being said I'm fine with my mechanical bikes too so I don't think electronic shifting is such a big upgrade anyway.
I now have 2 Di2 bikes. I’ll never go back to mechanical. If you like mechanical then don’t change. I’m almost 61 and it’s just so much easier for me to ride with electronic shifting.
Ive got over 60 high end bikes from 12spd DA to 9spd record.
Main thing is a straight hanger and properly tuned gears.
Best groupset overall is 7800. IYKYK.
Hey Durianrider,
Thanks for paying my little channel a visit 👍
Ain't gonna disagree with any of that...... Not sure I like the idea of maintaining 60 bikes though 😬
Thanks,
Jon
7800 rules!
While I don't regret going electronic on my Road Bike I admit to being a little underwhelmed by Di2. I never had issues with shifting or setting up mechanical, I actually quite like setting up/indexing gears. Never had a cable snap that I can remember, had a SRAM force return spring go once, took me a while to figure out why my rear mech' was automatically climbing the cassette!
I think I listened to much to the "YOU CAN NEVER GO BACK" people and expected to blown away but at the end of the day, you push a thing, and a thing moves a chain that's it! I know there's "synchro" and auto trim but I've been shifting 2X for 30 years my brain and muscle memory does that. I'll admit it shifts better and I like the satellite buttons for when I relax on the tops and settle into a long climb, (I'm one of the 3 or 4 people on the planet that purchased the Garmin remote who didn't hate it so I don't care about that function) but for me its just not the game changer or deal braker I expected and I'm not clambering to upgrade my mech' bikes any time soon.
I have a similar opinion on Rim Vs Disc Brakes, but being a 54kg whippet, I suspect Sir Isaac Newton has something to do with that one 😆
Hi Bikey McBeardface. Loved reading your thoughts.... a logical brain-dump from an experienced cyclist. I agree on all points. When it matters the most, there is no difference....... when you're shoving it along a long straight road, or climbing up 20% climb, it doesn't matter whether you've got Claris or Di2 Dura Ace, what matters is your effort..... and that the gear change happens if you need one. For me, the one thing I like is that I can flip between head unit screens..... So it's a lot to pay for such a small feature, and as you say, use the remote. One thing I should've mentioned in this video is the art of maintaining a bike. After all, any idiot can connect a Bluetooth device, or plug something in, but building a mechanical groupset is a skill we may lose.
Maybe one day I'll do that rim disc video thats in my head!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
It is worth it. Let’s embrace the goodness of new technology.
I was agains electronic systems until I try it and I love it. Now I want it in all my bikes.
Most people are against it...... until they try it!
You have the right point of view. Here are some sidenotes: I never shifted faster then on a Campagnolo Super Record of the 70's/80's and with one hand I could change indexless front and rear derailleur (53-13 to 42-18) - this was also (due to cage design) the best shifting system on cobblestone Criterium Races. I tried this SunTour special parallelogram shifting - super smooth (todays standard). Later I bought my 10-speed Centaur with Index = more gears, but no bigger speed penalties (and good jumps - super important when descending fast or adopt to a group or attack). My new bike is a Decathlon AF Centaur 11s - a real insult of shifting, but dirt cheap (830 €). Btw, another point is cold weather and electronics - minus 20 degree Celsius is the limit - I have ridden bikes in colder weather (here in Berlin, Germany).
In addition to the shifting something about Disc Brakes - don't invest in them (even it has better performance and cooler rims), when you are not willing to add the costs of the tools (estimated 400 €).
Mechanical shifting is just as accurate... if you know how to do it.
I picked up a tt bike with di2 last year and it’s made my road bike with mechanical borderline unrideable because the electronic is just so much better. Perfect shift every time, it just never messes up. I get so aggravated on my road bike having to feather the shifter to try to micro adjust when it mis-shifts. Now I’m in the market for a used di2 groupo so that I’m not so mad on my road bike 😂
Creating this video has taught me that the vast majority of people that take issue with electric shifting........ don't have, and never have used electric shifting.
You just don't know how to adjust a derailler that all 😊!
I thought I don’t need it, but now that I have it I don’t want to go back to old tech. I absolutely love it. As a matter of fact, I also bought a mountainbike with electronic shifting.
My thoughts too 👍
I just got my first bike with an electronic groupset, and I will never go back to mechanical. In terms of batteries, there is an easy solution: Use SRAM electronic group sets, such as Rival (most affordable), Force or Red (most expensive), rather than Di2. The SRAM batteries are way cheaper and easier to replace and charge. In fact, that was one of the reasons I got SRAM, including the ability to take a spare battery on my long rides. Regarding the difference in price point of mechanical vs electronic group sets, that is just part of the game, save for an extra couple of months and enjoy! Life is short!
Hi Jay.... Enjoy that new bike 👍 And yeah, the SRAM battery system is pretty slick!
Thanks for watching,
Jon
Di2 battery last like 6 months, I have never bought a replace battery, battery has never got flat
@@echd1Great to know, but I still prefer the peace of mind that I can carry a spare on my long rides. Military life makes people, eh, different. LOL
There are someones stealing SRAM batteries while you are buying a coffee😅
@@harrywang2566 I never heard of that, but if true, the spare battery would be very helpful.
The only time I would stop for coffee would be during the "Ride to Conquer Cancer" or similar events, where they provide food. But on situations like that my bike would be attached to my hip at all times, since I had a Garmin watch stolen from my bike many years ago.
My point is that carrying a small 20 grams battery is not a big deal when I go for the 100km+ bike ride alone - my preferred type as I don't have to wait for weaker riders or try to follow the stronger ones and I can enjoy my pain in solitude. LOL
I use mechanical 105 shifting. I've done test rides on bikes with electronic shifting. I guess it's fine but I just don't get what the big deal is. People act like it's this huge upgrade and I'm like, meh. I think I'm just old fashioned. If I can use a bike with no electronics: no power meter, no bike computer, no electronic shifting, then that's what I'm going to do. I like having a bike be a purely mechanical, relatively simple machine.
Yeah, I found my computer distracting so I took it of my bike and haven’t used it since .
And you're right a bike is supposed to be simple and for anybody easy to maintained !!!
@@jean-paullanglois5452di2 is far easier to maintain than mechanical though. It's literally set and forget. You don't ever have to index or change cables or adjust.
@@out_spocken It's not "literally" set and forget, is it, though? Because you literally have to remember to charge the very literal battery, or it literally won't work.
Not to mention the periodical software upgrades, some of which literally require you to wire the "wireless" shifters to the battery (or take to a LBS/buy an expensive black box) to install them, despite Shimano literally promising this would not be the case by now.
@@chris1275cc It's set and forget mate. Come on. My battery lasts 6 months. I check my tube pressure before every ride and consider them very much set and forget. Sure not 'literally' but it'd be more 'literally set and forget' than a mechanical gear cable that needs adjusting.
(I've got no time for the very latest that requires people to charge their batteries every two weeks and also have dedicated shifter batteries...though I can appreciate a fully wireless system...or at least the lack of need to have cables)
Software updates? Why? You don't need to upgrade unless you want something new. I've never updated my 6770 di2. Ever. If you do want a new function though...well...you pay for that...at least you can easily update the system...you can't update a mech system without paying for things like really good cables etc. Same same.
Can't speak to the very latest wireless....but my second gen wired system has lasted 12 years with the only problem being when I broke a shifter...same issue would have existed with a mech shifter.
Battery still lasts as long as it did when I bought it.
I micro adjusted my mech shifter cables more than I charge my battery...and this is doing 20k a year.
In fact...I have a bike sitting unsed at the moment because the gear cables have sheared off after being turrned left and right too much. So go figure.
Great discussion, thank you ! You slipped it a comment that may have gone past more then a few people, "if you are racing"... are you consistently operating at the top end of your fitness range and competing, you will want every available advantage, in that case, electronics and discs might be down your alley. Been on a bike and racing since the mid 70's, the technology back then obviously was very rudimentary, I remember seeing the first Regina 6 speed block and being excited. Everyone rode 531C frames and Campy, that's all there was to be. proper cyclist.
STI changed everything, before that the phenomena of Look clip less pedals, I was first off the rank with both, what they did for my racing was amazing, out of the saddle and shifting... yow
I've stayed with mechanical all this time, although I switched back to Campagnolo when Ergopower came out.
I stopped racing ten years ago, I still train hard and put in the kms, but have yet to fins a substantial reason as to why electric shift would be of benefit to me now, I just don't need it.... I did, road test a top of the range Cervelo not that long ago with the SRAM group, tubeless tyres and all that palaver.... you know, it was okay.. nothing there to justify the eye watering price of either the complete bike, or the group. where I live, in Chiang Mai, has a robust and very active cycling community full of young turks, some very very good, who like to have their S Works, Pinarellos and Cervelos, with disc brakes and full Di2. And of course, the correct shoes and clothing.
I'm digressing but the only real point is that, to me, my 11 speed Campy Chorus mechanical group works a treat, I can fix it myself if needed, rebuilding the shifters is easy, I have never yet been stuck out in the sticks praying for a phone signal ... Cheers, mate
Great read, Steve, thank you. Out of the saddle, and shifting...... You crazy kid 😉. As a lover og great engineering, Campagnolo is a beautiful thing. As I've said in other moments here, few 'Modern' cyclists know of the quality and simplicity that Campagnolo gives. One day I'll build up an old steel Pinarello, and fit it out with an old Campagnolo Record groupo.
@@ribblevalleycyclist a nice Columbus frame, beautiful...
I 100% prefer the mechanical shifting because of following reasons:
- cheaper
- more direct connection to your bicycle
- no batteries to be charged
- no batteries added to the mountain of waste
As the old saying goes, horses for courses. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
@@ribblevalleycyclist what is the advantage of adding batteries to the mountain of waste?
@@michastepien8326 None. Although, the true problem isn't the "mountain of E-waste", it's that there is no such thing as sustainable recycling.
Even at imaginery 90% recycling rate, 94% of the original amount of material would be gone after only 26 cycles. And at 80% rate, 90% of the material would be gone only after 10 cycles.
So, we should not waste any [precious] metals if we wish to continue using metals for thousands of years rather than say hundreds of years.
And in this case, the true waste stream is composed of planet killing E-cars, concrete steel-reinforced buildings, other infrastructure, and numerous other hardly unrepairable gadgets.
I’m a di2 convert. It’s just great. Really is. I won’t be going back. Not sure why anyone would think a 1500 mile charge cycle would be a problem. Love the full synchro shifting. 👌🏻
With you there, Mendip, I love it too. Saying that though, the mechanical on my gravel is a good solution too.
I think it depends - as most things - on the use case. I would recommend it on road bikes as the shifting really is super smooth, no maintenance due to wore out cables, no adjustments anymore once it's setted up. (the battery is very long lasting and durable as well)
But I wouldn't recommend it for gravel/offroad bikes as it seems a bit fragile to me in case of falling down or collisions with roots or whatever...
Completely agree with you, Hellebarde. Well said 👍
I held out against wireless shifting and disc brakes for years. Until last week. I bought a new Trek Domane --- and I absolutely love the Ultegra Di2 and hydraulic disc brakes. The difference is even greater than it was when moved from friction shifters on the downtube to indexed shifting. It's a massive improvement
Great vid. Short answer to the question: Yes, it's worth it to upgrade to electronic. I've never had a dead battery, it shifts the same way every time, and it's far easier to shift while you're in the middle of an effort, or braking. No brainer.
All good points well mate.
Thanks,
Jon
Carpal tunnel probs has forced me to go wireless, Di2, and I LOVE IT! ❤❤❤❤❤
Perfect example of where electric adds value. Glad you're still riding 👍
I did Unbound 200 last year on my first Di2 bike and it was an amazing decision for many reasons - particularly hand fatigue!
One thing I've learned from this video is that hand fatigue is a big issue for long rides that electronic overcomes.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
I don't know how anyone can say you get hand fatigue from shifting. I can shift with barely any force with my pinky. I've tried it multiple times. I have ultegra 11spd. If it hurts your hand to shift a road bike, you are insanely frail and need to take some testosterone or something.
@@Silidons91Rubbish. My left wrist totally disagrees. Especially in the winter and especially when you do a lot of big-small-big chainrings shifting. No mech grouppo works as good as the Di2
P.S. I REALLY want to see a vid of you shifting small->big chainrings on a mech Ultegra using your pinky only. 😂
Hell yeah, night and day difference.
@@Silidons91 Try doing a 12+ hour gravel race in the rolling Flint Hills of Kansas on mechanical shifting…I promise you’ll get some hand fatigue lol.
The questions "is it worth it" and "do you need it" are impossible to answer. It depends on your preferences and what you had to do to get the extra money. All I can say is that I just got a bike with SRAM Rival electronic shifting, and I love it! I've got it in sequential mode, so it changes the front derailleur automatically to avoid cross chaining. Not having to think about cross chaining is surprisingly enjoyable. I don't have to think about what cog I'm in on the back, If it's too easy to pedal hit the right shifter, if it's too hard hit the left shifter. That's it! Blip blip! It makes riding fun and makes me want to go ride, so it's doing it's job.
Having just bought a bike with mechanical as my electric group set bike broke I can definitely say I’m swapping back to electric as it crisper changes and easier to change on hills.
Absolutely worth every penny. On my 22 day tour. I was the only one with ZERO mechanical issues. And yes, poor shifting and broken shifter cables were seen in other traditional bikes.
It's interesting how this video had divided opinion! Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Anthony 👍
If you choose a SRAM electronic group set you could very easily change the batteries when they are worn out and if one battery goes dry during your ride you can change it with the other battery and still be able to change your rear gears and you can take the batteries of and charge them inside.
Agreed, the SRAM battery setup is slick
I got my first electronic shifting bike. 23 Emonda SL6 etap . Love SRAM, the app is intuitive and no issues.
As I write this comment, I'm sitting at 11 22 in time in the video . Had this thought that I've learned more from this video that you made. Then I have in years and years of watching GCN. I'm just saying great job make more 🤯.
Thank you, Justin.
Had to watch the video at 11:22, just to see where you were when you came to this conclusion!!
Don't tell Simon or Ollie at GCN, they'll be most upset 🤣
I absolutely love electronic shifting. Makes me very happy...so very much worth it
Downside of electronic is your locked into a techno trap of needing a phone or device, internet, accounts, firmware updates, the money for all of those things. I feel it leads to more expensive bikes overall. Plus if your like me and tech minimalist like myself sort of locks you out of that's product.
Comes from my experience of not having a job for a bit and needing cheap transport to get back onto my feet financially.
Hi Chris,
I agree, there is a real downside to letting tech take over from mechanical.
Glad you're back on your feet 👍
Jon
Disagree - from all of those things I had only money, while buying my SRAM eTap. And it never needed any, riding some 70000km over last 5 years.
Yup. Same with Shimano di2. 130k on the clock. No issues and nothing needed bar a shifter that I crashed when falling off the bike. Battery after 11 years still only needs a charge twice a year and that's after sitting locked away for 4 years not being used after a major cbike accident..of which the hearing on the bike was fine@@jazemkrzysio
No, sram etap 11 speed offers no connectivity to smartphone, or needs firmware updates. It’s very basic and just works.
I bought an electronic rear derailleur (SRAM GX AXS) for my MTB. It’s works well and is solid enough, but… if you aren’t diligent, you can forget to charge or lose a battery. Then you’re screwed on a ride. The contacts springs on my derailleur failed and wouldn’t connect with the battery, creating problems on a ride. They warrantied the derailleur, but I wasn’t comfortable with the cons vs the pros. If you break the derailleur, it’s about $500 min to replace. I do love how it cleans up the bike and simplifies it (less cables, easy to remove and clean).
I went back to mechanical and used Shimano SLX on my new bike. I don’t miss electronic. Rest assured, electronic is mostly about making much larger margins for the brands. Less about being that much better.
As a bike mechanic, I can tell you my main problem with electronic groupsets is availability, and maintain ability. Why make something but not make enough replacement parts. And the comparability!! It’s electronic they should all be compatible. You should be able to use Ultegra 10 speed Di2 FD with the latest ultegra groupset it’s just a solenoid!!! Their software is crap…
Stock is a continual issue.
Using a GRX 800 groupset on my main bike. Works perfectly. Other than occasionally changing a cable, it has been flawless. I also believe in keep it simple.
I have a Shimano 11 speed. electronic switching. I recently switched to this type of switching. But I can say that compared to the mechanics, the electronic group works clearly. For me, the difference is palpable. The only minus of this system is the price.
I've been riding for 60 years and always embraced new tech, index gears (remember them?), brake shifters and now electronic gears. I've used etap for six years now with not a single problem. Price, don't care! Batteries, I carry a spare but have never used it. Shifting in the cold is dead easy. I am a minimalist so love the lack of stuff you get with etap. No cables on the bars, no cables in the frame or near the wheels. I wish I'd had them when I was racing in Yorkshire back in the day. I was always missing the break up the hill cause I couldn't find the right gear, at least that was my excuse.
You’re the first person I’ve seen explaining properly how electronic shifting works. Thanks. I’ll stick with mechanical , for now, though
Glad you found it useful. Stick with your mechanical for as long as you can, it's a great system.
Thanks for watching.
Jon
@@ribblevalleycyclist I had a derailleur failure, on my old Tiagra last year. Awkward as it’s different pull ratios from the newer Tiagra, but my local bike shop replaced it with an old 10 speed Ultegra derailleur they had left over from someone’s bike upgrade. Absolute bargain price and shifts better than ever. That would never happen with electronic!
Electronic + Wireless like what you get with SRAM on a Triathlon Rig is a game changer where you can have multiple points to have gear changers to maintain your position.
SRAM Rival is my setup. The biggest help I've had with it that I didn't anticpate, was the rear being totally wireless makes it really easy to remove the mech when I pack my bike for travel.
Good point.
Its no advantage over di2… you just unplug the RD and remove it
You've also got to remove the battery for Di2 to fly.... so its more intensive work.@@thedownunderverse
@@stuartfrancis519 might depend on where u are? Google tells me TSA doesn’t require it
your presentations are not boring. thank you❤
Generations of cyclists throughout the ages have run fine with mechanical bicycles
As I am disabled di2 finally allowed me enter the world of the road cycling.
Brilliant. And this is a perfect example of when this technology is great. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Jon
I run a mix of Rival (FD), Red (RD), and Force (Shifters). Incredible difference to my experience with mechanical over the years. Shifts flawlessly every time. Perfect too if you’re not comfortable servicing gear cables and making adjustments on a regular basis. Very reliable so far and the battery lasts a long time.
I've ridden both SRAM and Shimano for years. I wouldn't describe SRAM shifting as flawless. In races you're always missing shifts or shifting too far. Shifting up the cassette is like an old school friction shifter with sram.
just no dude. @@aaron___6014
Just got a new (used) bike with di2. The shifting is incredible.
It's a game changer, thats for sure.
Real world observation: Retired former amateur racer who spends appx. 3 months riding full time in the desert and nearby mountains in southern California. Every day I do a few hrs at least, many days are group rides much longer and at good pace, with lots of good riders, mostly well equipped. Since the electric shifting has been around, I personally have been with 4 dead battery people on remote rides. I've also had 4 or 5 friends show up on their old mechanical rim brakes..."Had to order a ______. It will be here in a month from_______(Name the manufacturer and country). There is no bike shop within 60 miles, so personally I always have spares for my Old school equipment and sometimes I have to fix things. But I never have to drive my bike to the city and leave it to be fixed by a technician. I don't have to find a power source for battery charging or a clean inviornment to bleed brakes. I just ride, every day the weather allows. Yes, I tune my Ultegra 8000 fairly often, but I'm a perfectionist when it comes to my bike. Yes, I replace the cables often because mine aren't inside the frame and it can be done during morning coffee.
One amusing thing I've found is in a group ride, everyone usually takes the front for a bit, but I tease my Aero bike buds and tell em, "Hey, you got 15 extra Watts now, get out there".…Doesn't work, but worth trying..😊
Nice read, Don. Sounds like you've got the Ballance just right 👍
Great video, thanks. Far better than the GCN tech coverage of the same subject. However... two things really. 1) Cost. At £750 more than mechanical, for bikes under £3K that most of us ride, it is going to mean significantly poorer components elsewhere, where it matters more: frame, wheels. 2) Complexity and Reliability. Less complex is better (always) - and simplicity is the essence of bicycle design. More complexity = less reliability (always). electronics anywhere on a bicycle is less reliable in the long term - so I don't agree with you on this. Over several years of riding in all weathers water gets in to Di2 connections and components, and then they die, usually suddenly, and you need new ones = complex and £big. On a mechanical the shifting gets gradually worse, so you notice and you put in new inner cables = easy and £small. Over recent years watching/riding/supporting the Fred Whitton I have seen loads more DNF than previously - almost all due to Di2 failures and not flat batteries either.
These are all valid points you bring, Robin. I too worry about electronic in poor weather, thats why I only use it on my summer/fine bike. For gravel, training, touring, workhorse, cargo, I use mechanical.
Fred Whitton.... Only ever done it once, that is where that photo was taken, as I'm sure you worked out.
I've got Sram etap, had it amazingly 5yrs, I got it as I really wanted it then, I love the logical left easy right hard aspect of shifting. Whereas di2 keeps the mechanical aspect; right rear up and down the back gears and left front gears - for me, the Sram stuff is better. I'm still getting a month out of it and even I'm amazed, still at every shift, tho it's reduced but theirs nothing like it 👌
I have a mix, so I just program the Di2 bikes to shift Sram-like. Of course, the FD is a bit different and occasionally catches me out when I try to double click on the Di2.
i like how the advantages in shift quality for e shifting are just things that anyone with experience does with friction shift
I saw no purpose for electronic shifting until I got a bike that came with it. Now that I use it, I absolutely love it. Effortlessly shifting, no missed shifts, no adjusting. Would not want to go back to mechanical.
get a Life.Mate.
I was actually dismissing electronic shifting as a gimmick. After seeing all the advantages here, I am starting saving up for one. Even though it's a lot of money extra, I think it's worth it, when you get older like me with a little arthritis.
i dont mind electronic shifting, im just against the price as it stands now. It's a ripoff
Have both. I prefer the Mechanical shifts are more engaging easier to replace and last longer due to no batteries. Cheers from Oz🇦🇺
A well set up and maintained 105 11s works flawlessly. The main problem is the drive to internal cables leaving a tortuous route from shifter to mech that just adds resistance and inaccuracies develop. I'm even using TRP compressionless cables and TRP Spyre brakes and they work perfectly too.
There is one situation whereby I could give SRAM kudos and that's for going wireless, and the ability to mix and match road STI's with MTB derailleurs so if you want to tune your gearing for where you live it's simple, no silly long b-screws and mech extenders and all those bodges...
You get my vote, Barry. Not gonna disagree with a single point you make there. 105, still a fantastic bit of kit, and you'll find 3 bikes in my stable running it.
I love the way my dura ace mechanical makes a reassuring little clunk and bang in gear every time.
I am too disabled to use mechanical shifting and side pull brakes. I had to stop in 2014 because I could no longer ride *down* hills. But I bought a crazy expensive Specialized S-Works Diverge ($8500 for Di2 + hydraulics in 2015), and that next year I rode 20,000km. As to wearing electronic doodads out: even though I wear out carbon bikes, I’ve never worn out a Di2 part (I average around 15,000km/year). I did break a SRAM Red front derailleur once but it was due to my bad hands stripping an Allen head bolt.
My opinion, for what it’s worth (and this is what I tell my friends who are thinking about going electronic): you don’t need it unless you’re disabled like me. It’s super nice and I highly recommend it if you can afford it, but otherwise don’t bother.
I have a red etap 22 on my Cannondale. The Problem is the battery. The Sram shifting is much more intuitive than Shimano and you cannot mistake. And in the winter battery will got empty earlier. The Ultegra 8000 was the best Groupset I ever had.
Normally you can swap the front battery to the rear, as front derailer battery tend preserve more juice because rear derailer gets used more often when riding.
you can set up di2 to shift like etap.
Yes I did that a few times, I heard with DI2 that is not possible@@carlos_chen
Yes but the batteries are cheaper for Sram etap axs and it’s so easy to check your battery status just press the button on each derailleur if it’s a solid green light your good to go if it flashes red charge the battery it’s not difficult to do that the day before each ride is it?
Yes, absolutely right!@@MrChippiechappie
I need auto-shifting with double clutches, emergency brake assist, lane assist, heated seat, distance warner, and a 12 inch touch screen on the handlebar!
"Does it make your life easier?" Was pretty much all I needed to hear! 😆 (I already migrated half of my bikes to SRAM Eagle AXS anyway, but still nice to hear it should stay easier, because everything always works fine when new. 😉)
Easy life is a good life 🤣
I lost 4 fingers off my left hand and had the ultegra installed. Bluetooth and everything. I very rarely use the bluetooth. But the ease of sliding my pinky stump (at the first knuckle) to change gears had made this completely beneficial.
And this is a great example of where electronic adds value, thanks Andrew
I’ve ridden DI2 for the last few years alongside Dura Ace 9100 mechanical.
I tended to choose the mechanical bike as I prefer the ergonomics of the hoods and the gear changes are just as smooth.
I’ve now sold both DI2 bikes and have gone mechanical on all my bikes.
Gear cables with a modern group set are totally reliable and never need adjustment.
There is no worry about electronics packing up like a Dura Ace lever did on me.
The amount of times I’ve been on group rides and someone’s battery goes flat, it last happened last weekend.
Yep, I've been on a few club rides, and the Di2 Demon has struck.
All good points you make. Thanks, 👍
Di2 fails. Fact and it's not just battery
I ride in a fairly salty road group, traded in my Cervelo S3 11 speed mechanical for a Cervelo Caledonia 5 with sram e tap 12 speed. Electronic shifting is instantaneous front and back. This helps immensely when riding with a fast pace road group, especially attacking hills. You are spot on, the e tap is totally brainless, just discovered your Chanel and am subscribing, keep up the good work👍✌🏼
Hi PACFAN,
Sounds like you're enjoying that new Cervelo! Mechanical is great, have it on my winter bike. But when you just don't need the hassle, electric is the way.
Thanks for the sub 👍
One of the joys for me on a bike is mechanically moving those derailleurs and feeling the shifts. For me it's all about being part of the machine not just about being an operator.
Fair point well made.
You're symbiotic with your mechanical bike no more than an electronic one. You did not select the alloys. You did not draw the drawings. You did not write the assembly instructions. You did not 5 axis the parts. You did anodize, etch, metallize whatever the components. You didn't paint them. You couldn't have imagined them. And neither could I. So you, nor me, are or ever be "part of the machine". You need to actually irl try di2 and to stop this gaslighting nonsense about mechanical. Di2 is insane and I wish people had told me sooner
LOL! People who prefer cars with manual transmissions have a similar argument.
But...but..but....That's a totally different thing there!! Manual in a car means you control when to shift. More RPMS is good! On the bike, it may be a motor moving the derailleur, but you still have to make it do it!
@@dentatusdentatus1592
You just move a stupid lever. There is nothing special with doing this.
I have ridden the new EPS Wireless from Campa 2 days ago. And now i am convinced. #takemymoney!!!
I bet that was nice...... Maybe one day!
I ride a bike with downtime shifters and recently got a chance to ride a bike with ultegra mechanical, during a fast group ride, and I have to say the smoother shifting ability definitely makes me faster!
Agreed. STI shifting was a game changer. It won races, fact!
@@ribblevalleycyclist Campy Ergo Power did too! Recall there was also indexed downtube shifters for years before they reach the brake levers.
It was all about the timing, stability and control differences from moving the hand, looking down or feeling the downtube shifters. From integrated brake-shifters, you have instant dumping of gears in mid sprint while having full control (even when braking) of the bike. No looking down or fumbling tight in a pack, following a wheel. That made a difference to how sprints were won.
Thanks for a good video! For me Shimano GRX 2x 11 mecanical is so good that its difficult to see the benefits with Di2. My grx works flawlessly.
Glad to have found you, and after watching your video ,I will be stopping with my 10s 105 group set, simple to fix , cheap to repair and easy live with.
And that Paul, is exactly why I make these videos. The idea is to tell you what you need to know, and for you to make your own mind up.
Thanks, appreciate it 👍
Nice explanation, can definitely see the pluses of electronic shifting. I prefer mechanical Ultegra. 40+ years cycling, never had or seen a cable break.
I changed to electronic wireless shifting. Benefits: no cables anymore, no temperature issue with cable tension anymore. You set it up once and it is always accurate, shifting is fantastic especially when you do a technical curvy road and you need slow down and speed up, and the compensation shifting when you change gear at front then rear gears are adjusted. I will never go back to mechanical.
I'm convinced that electrtronic shifting is better than my mechanical ones. And I could easily afford to upgrade. But the price to go from very good to a tiny bit better just does not seem worth it.
I'm still rocking my down tube shifters!
Love the feature of shifting up three gears just by hold it down.
I’ve got both and to the average rider I’d say don’t bother mechanical works and is more reliable. It’s a solution to a problem that never existed
Ain't gonna argue with that!
Absolutely agree with that!
DI2 is allready over 10 years old.
Professional cyclists use it because of the precision, speed and adjustability of the system. Di2 offers advantages such as smooth shifting, precise transitions between gears and automatic adjustments for optimal chain tension.The electronic system is less susceptible to cable breaks and disruptions than traditional mechanical shifting systems. Di2 systems have LED lights (apps)that alert the cyclist to battery status and switching mode. If you don't live in a thirdworld country you will be fine getting replacement parts, nowadays you can order abroad.
It is understandable that many people are concerned about the disappearance of craft skills in a world that is becoming increasingly automated and digitized. While advancement and technology offer many benefits, they can also lead to the loss of traditional crafts and skills that have often been passed on for generations.
However, it is important to remember that technology and craft skills do not necessarily have to exclude each other. Modern technology can be used to improve, automate craft processes or offer new creative possibilities. So it is not so much a matter of 'hating', but rather of finding a balance between tradition and progress.
Many people still appreciate the craftsmanship and authenticity that come with handmade products, and there are communities and initiatives that seek to maintain and promote craft skills. So as the world evolves, it's important to recognize and appreciate the value of both traditional crafts and modern technology.
Thanks, LiveLong. The big question I set out to answer, is does the 'Average' cyclist need electronic shifting...... and I think the answer is clearly 'No'. And the vast majority of electronic owners/users are also of the same opinion, or describe it as a luxury.
Thanks,
Jon
I will switch to electronic once it will become cheaper than mechanical. And trust me, it will.
Currently it looks like the levers themselves are only slightly more expensive, but then the electronic shifters are signicantly more expensive.
In order to fully reap the benefits of electronic it needs to be fully wieless! No half measures like the cables that you still need to run from shifters into the battery. So, in summary, we just need to wait a little longer, it is not the time yet.
SRAM somehow, has the patent on wireless, so until the patent runs out, Shimano licenses the patent (not likely) or figure a cleaver way around it, Shimano electronic users are stuck with wires for the foreseeable future. Shimano, although still selling the 11 speed 105 mechanical for the time being, quit offering anything but DI2 with everything 12 speed. So it's not a question of when it will become cheaper, as it will be the only game in town for higher end users. Although it's been their practice to discount groupsets when a newer version comes out, other than that I don't see them reducing prices. Take a look at when the CD came out as an example. Not counting R&D, the audio CD was a mere fraction of the cost to make than the audio cassette, but because it was a newer and better technology, the price of an album went up roughly 60-70%. It never really went down. It takes significantly more tooling & precision to manufacture mechanical groupsets, especially the shifters, than electronic, just as the audio cassette. Stake holders in companies won't allow huge savings to be passed on to consumers, when it can become extra profit. Personally, I'm rooting for underdogs like Microshift, to clean their clocks, with great value & performing mechanical groupsets, which mostly depends on bike companies equipping new bikes with their products. So far Advent X is showing up on quite a few new bikes. Of course with huge profit margins of SRAM & Shimano, the can HEAVILY discount components to bike makers, so it will be an uphill battle.
I never trust anyone who says "trust me".
@@GoustiFruit Good for you.
@@swray2112 This is another idea that I forgot to mention: mechanical includes more value (labour) by default, so should be cheaper by defintion, this the main reason I think eventually mechanical will be more expenisve and reserved for just mechanical shifting and retro bikes enthusiasts... but Shimano and SRAM are milking the cyclists as much as they can with cheap to produce electronic shifting. Capitalism in action.
It will NEVER become cheaper than mechanical. You're going to be waiting a long time.
Here's another hit for electric shifting:. My buddy was on his backup bike...He forgot to unplug his di2 when taking his other bike out of the van and that wrecked his rear derailleur. No longer able to charge it so it had to be replaced. He had to take the bike 70miles to the shop and they kept it while waiting for a replacement. 10 days later and another 70 miles, plus $500+ for the part.
Not a thing with mechanical systems
Ouch! It’s one of the worst things to damage on an electric system. Some of the SRAM ones are even more expensive
For me, electronic is worth it. No chain rub, perfect shifting each and every time, no readjusting the derailleurs after a few months of use like I had to do with mechanical, no cables to replace, bike looks better, just to name a few. If you have the extra money to make the switch, you will not regret it. I have 11-speed Sram Red E-tap. Only had one time that a battery was drained due to excessive amount of riding between charges. This was not a problem - swapped the front battery with the rear one and I was good to go.
single speed :)
I love ultraendurance cycling, and after 1500km on my mechanical bike have numb hands with massively reduced power and dexterity. I couldn’t even shift anymore. I’ve just bought a new SRAM eTap bike, and love the featherweight shifting - add satellite shifting and I think this will be a game changer for my ultra riding experience.
My first electronic group set is Ultegra 11 speed Di2 on my 2022 bmc road machine. First road bike with discs and just love them both. Very rare does my campy 10 speed record mech equipped Ti bike get an outing these days. I keep the mech set in very good condition, recently replaced the cables etc, however the electronic set is just crisper, no hassles with the front derailleur, and over all I just prefer the feel of the shifts. I am 68, so have had a few group sets in my time . Each to their own though
Been riding Di2 for 8 years. Love it. The ultimate set and forget. Never had to adjust. Perfect shift everytime.
As for the running out of battery issue. After 8 years and 40,000+ kms. I have had a flat battery the same number of times I've run out of petrol in 38 years of driving. Zero. Not hard to check the battery gauge and top up long before it gets to the danger zone.
On the mechanical side. In the "old days", I've had gear cables break many times. While it didn't happen very often, when it did, it was hard to predict, and quite often left me with a 30km ride with limited gear options.
While electronic may be more expensive, I love riding my bike, so why not pay a few more dollars and enjoy the care free, maintenance free ride. It's a relatively small extra cost for something I love, when comparing what we spend money in other aspects of life.
Will never buy a bike with mechanical shifting again. Electronic all the way.
Honestly like, I had just started getting into road biking after mountain biking for several years and I got a rival axs, best choice I could’ve made. Small things like where I lay my hands my body position just having a high quality hood, not to mention the really good experience. Even as a beginner electric shifting can accelerate your progression like crazy, I would Absolutley upgrade to electronic you had the option
Do you find the Rival hoods slippery? I went from Force to Rival (bought a new bike and having swapped components yet) and these hoods are hella slippery when sweating. I’ve actually bought a pair of gloves, which I typically don’t use
@@HoldenDoesBikeStuff that’s odd cause I find some of the force hoods that I’ve tried are a little more slick than my rival ones lol. I can’t say they’re sloppy for me but that could just be the way that I’m holding them, I hardly ever grab them straight on I’m always either on the drops or in an aero position arms on the bars kind of thing
Ive had my Di2 since 2012 (used factory Demo bike). I absolutely prefer it over mechanical. The #1 reason is shifting is perfection and I can react quickly and change gears perfectly. I have never replaced the battery and a single charge lasts 4months of daily Zwifting (1500 kms). I have never damaged my Di2 or my bike for that matter. I don't crash. I ride only safely. Lol, so far!
I have Di2 since 2015 and I personally love it. Yes it can have small issues and can be mare for people new to it when these issues arrive. I do love that you can interchange Dura Ace, Ultegra, XTR, XT and GRX (talking 11 speed), to make you perfect set up. For example, on my road bike, I use the XT display. This shows my gear and battery status, so avoids and power issues. It also doubles up as the Wireless sender and junction port. Shame this is not on 12 speed as yet, so will stick with 11 in the meanwhile. I agree not cheap, but not changing now.
I must admit, Darren, I love it too. This video sure has divided opinions!
great video but I am not sold on electronic group sets. I have a mechanical Dura Ace rim brake bike from 2018 with over 29000 km of riding. The shifting and braking are bullet proof. Once a new shifter cable is fully stretched the shifting is very accurate, can be shifted under most loads and my brain is probably wired better than Di2 and I know how to trim the derailleurs subconsciously. I can multitask shift/brake when needed. And in almost every group ride with someone that has di2 or sram eshifting a battery die. I can swap wheels between my carbon and aluminum wheels and never need to adjust the barrel etc. It just works.
Also, I do lots of back country riding on my gravel bike with SRAM mechanical and it is also bullet proof. On my 350km one day rides I need reliability and the ability to fix it trailside… I have yet to see that with electronic shifting. I hope one day Shimano will reintroduce a top of the line mechanical group set. I may be buying a bunch of mechanical Dura Ace brake levers and derailleurs to keep for when they are completely out of stock.
Hi Gene,
I completely agree with every point you've made. Interestingly, if you read through the comments, the vast majority of people that claim their mechanical shifts just as well as electronic, run DA! And I'd agree with them, DA is just in another league. Also, people that run DA tend to maintain it well, so it tends to work well.
Also agree with your gravel comments, I too run mechanical on gravel for the very same reason.
Oh, and it looks like you've got some pretty interesting vids on your channel...... I'll go check it out!
Thanks for watching,
Jon
@@ribblevalleycyclist thanks Jon! I enjoyed a few of your videos too. It’s fun to come across someone with real world experience to learn from. I think I will have no choice but to get electronic shifting the next time I buy a new bike. 🤷🏻♂️ my friends with it love it until the batteries die. 😜
Also, I am so new to RUclips. Still learning my niche but mostly want to capture fun and epic ride videos.
What upsets me is the choice has been taken away. Manufacturers have 'decided' for us. It feels quite patronising as if we arent capable of deciding for ourselves. Sorry but i will stick with single speed. Manufacturers must really hate people who wont 'buy in'........
I agree with you, David. I too feel that taking rim and mechanical away is bad form.