A truly visionary creator makes something that they know will eventually be popular, and has the patience to stay the course without the immediate gratification. Giving in to that need for quick validation is what causes everything on this platform to feel the same.
good point. there's a reason traditional storytelling is the way it is. you are supposed to learn something about the world, not to be dumbed down by so called entertainment. that said: I've been told mr beast said he couldnt watch the godfather, too slow, he "clicked away" after a few minutes. sad.
It’s insane that we are all targeting 70-80 percent in the first 30 sec. This means one in 4 will leave if it goes amazingly. Wonder how many movie are clicked off in the first 30 sec even on Netflix or other streaming service
Wow that was a gem. I would be curious to hear Rene’s take on comments as part of the “audience satisfaction” metric. I’ve been a firm believer it’s not the volume of comments - it’s what people are actually saying. Is the algorithm analyzing the nature of the comments?
That would be insane. I am sure it picks up key words in it but real understanding of the context of a comment and interpreting it as a good neutral or negative would be insane. That would take a tone of processing power. Not that they don’t have it 😂
As a video editor this was so helpful! A problem most of us editors have is thinking our work is the best of the best but it always boils down to what the audience want! The part about putting a dramatic scene at the start is so powerful
25:03 we already see creators experimenting with cliff hangers all the time on TikTok whenever there are part 1 and part 2 of content posted. Even though it's definitely a lot more short term maybe 1-2 mins max, we still manage to get invested and wanting to see the final result. While I 100% agree with Hayden that it's annoying af, you're still very inclined to find part 2 and so on, and the proof of that is when you see its massive success on TikTok as all the different parts of the content get good amounts of engagement. The algorithm has no choice but to recommend the original video and the creator to a new audience on the "For You" page.
Definitely going to need a second to breathe and take in what I learned here today. Sometimes it feels like the information is overwhelming but I’d rather it be that way in order to learn. Something that I thought about while listening was how to move from the audience focusing on the thing you talk about to focusing on you. In YT, the general thought is that you have to choose a niche in order to get attention because nobody knows you or cares about you, so then pulling them away from that and making them watch for you becomes difficult. The best way to avoid that is to make sure the audience enjoys who you are, your personality has to be highly infused in your content to make it so that even if they can get the same information elsewhere, they’re not gonna get the same you somewhere else.
I never thought to make my thumbnails and titles for my core audience, then change it a week later for a broad audience... i wonder how I should figure out what videos of mine to change for broader audiences since I feel like someone new to my channel seeing only "broader audience" packages might feel soulless. (this is funny because im a vtuber and have no soul to begin with)
I find the parallel between front loading a RUclips video and News Paper writing fascinating. Newspapers have been editing their stories like this for around a hundred years. Their formula was Photo(Thumbnail), Title, First Sentence, First Paragraph, then the rest of the Story. Social Media rediscovering what works best.
The RUclips experience was ruined by "perfect video for you" mentality. RUclips thinks their algorithm is smarter than the viewer, and knows better than the viewer. It prioritizes clickbait and garbage content when I'm searching specific content, and it makes it harder to find what I'm looking for.
( I love the set you are using today.......looks like they are remodeling the elementary school and the music teacher said you could set up behind the stage.....but clean up nicely when you are done because the PTA meeting is tonight). When the information is of value......the set is of no significance. tHanks for a great video
Cool to see where Rene Ritchie has ended up, his name rang a bell when I started the video and it all clicked that I used to watch his videos when he mentioned the apple content. Super insightful stuff
I thought for sure I'd left a comment already, so apologies if this is a dupe, but thank you so much for having me on the podcast! This was one of the most interesting, informative, and engaging discussions I've had about RUclips and deeply appreciate both of you sharing your knowledge and expertise! I learned a ton!
The thing I always wanted to know is, not how the algorithm works, but what are the odds your video will be tested by the algorithm? How many times is it tested (initial sample size)? How good does it have to be (what retention rate) to get tested more? Those answers would explain a lot, assuming RUclips's description of the algorithm is true. Can a great video die because it was initially showed to just 3 people who are not interested in the topic? Under what conditions would a dead video get picked up months later and then go viral? Etc.
Love your videos haha we talk about whatever the last week topic was all the time in the editing room (our garage). How do you feel about two separate “big ideas” in a video? When you talk about emotion, and payoff - seems like that discussion is specifically about a singular storyline. What are your thoughts on how to keep “vlogs” with multiple sections engaging?
I love watching your videos. Full stop. Your content is guiding and amazing, and it's brought me a new level of professionalism that I couldn't have achieved without you. I put you on the biggest screen I have as often as I can. The content is brilliant, again, but Hayden? Can you please be in focus too? I can almost see how you've lit the set. A big light for you and Jordan, and either a separate, further away softbox for Rene, OR there's a window high on your left with the sun shining through. Whichever the case, you're too bright for the 2-man shot and that poor camera can't handle it. Your content is always more about the heart and soul of editing, but I feel like attention to detail to remove distractions is key as well. It's like this video says itself, I clicked away because I had agency. My internal question and reason for watching this video switched from "What's Hayden got to say about this? What's Rene got to say about this?," to "... wait, why is JUST HAYDEN out of focus?". It's honestly distracting to see Jordan clearly and well lit, with soft shadows rolling across his face to give details, Rene have so much detail you can see the different colors of hair on his head and see the swoop of his beard hairs' direction, and you're just kind of ... smudged. You're an expert, Hayden, and I'd rather see you bot sounding AND looking sharp. PS, I used a cliffhanger just because you were talking about it.
I'm one of those users that is NOT subscribed to any channel because RUclips tells you whenever your fave people have uploaded a new video. Am l a monster? I do keep a list of my creators of choice just in case the algorithm forgets about them and l haven't seen them around for a while or whatever.
Kallmekris is a good example where it “feels” the same. But I highly prefer her short content over her long content. Simply because the shorts Only have the best jokes. The long form feels more like the development process of writing jokes. One isn’t better than the other, but I know which one I like more.
The issue with the algorithm is they way it distributes the content. It’ll test the video on your current audience and if it doesn’t perform well there it’ll kill your video. Remove testing with current subscribers and let it push the video to different audience outward. You can have an amazing video but because your main subscriber base is a certain genre the video will die.
I would love this episode more if the pace of the interviewee was a little more on the calm side. He speaks really fast! Yes, I can rewatch some parts or pause sometimes, but man! Chill out, there's no timer. These are cool interviews.
Maybe I am wrong, but what it seems like to me is that YT wants to sell ads, the one who gets the click sells the ad right? So why do videos with terrible stats get lots of clicks? Imho it comes down to a clickable thumbnail above all. That is the only thing that truly makes sense to me anymore... that is consistent. Thanks guys!
Strategy: "Find out what videos people are going to love from me going forward and give them more of those videos to love." Understanding connection: " Content is about the shorter or longer version of the same feeling engendered with the audience." Algorithm : "If everyone who watched your previous video engages with your new video quickly and loves it and exhausts your current viewing audience, it will then be broadcast to a database of viewers with a similar profile to your audience and then will test it with new audience profiles - For that "Device" for that "Mood for that time guessing the viewers context". Data: " The thumbnails served up to people, are people going to click on them, watch and share the video, Can you convert as it Doesn't matter how many impressions you get, if people don't click" AB Testing is a Thing that needs to be tested! RUclips is about audience. Thumbnails and title - "Think like the magazine on the news stand and why people buy it" You tube is about audience Psychology. Great video Thanks for sharing this. Stay safe, have fun! ✋👊🍻😁👍
idk why but my instincts is telling me jordan orme is either kidnapped or blackmailed by Hillier or maybe some sort of indian black magic is wandering around him. Why the he*l is he soo much like... that silient protagonist who has some hidden secrets and can blow any M_F_ down at any instant of time?
Nah... I ain't making infomercials people, I want to create something that I love doing, I will just keep making videos on my channel that I want to make. Otherwise this will just keep dividing!
This is why my videos on my channel will always be a failure. I do slow burn, because that's what is actually involved. That's what it is. At least I enjoy it.
Wow.....not only Rene...but Al & Todd are in this video! The only other RUclips star I know is that supermodel Anna Lytics. (..I never visit her office - I know of her) ( Al Gorithm isn't against me......He's actually good at his job...whereas...I am not )
This is a video that is so packed with valuable information that I want to delete all my RUclips videos right NOW and start all over again! Thank you Hayden and Jordan for asking the questions that needed to be asked. And great insights from Rene Ritchie. (9th August 2023).
Yo you guys should stop down on your camera. Your highlights are blown. Seems like you had plenty of light to close up that Aperature and that would've put yourself in better focus. Just a suggestion for next time guys, great discussion once again!
Buy ads on other channels that match your demographic. Bring audience to you that will watch the longest and have the highest likelihood to subscribe and like. For your competition, do the opposite. Buy ads for their videos on channels with a completely unrelated demographic. This will send viewers to their channel that will vote their content down and stop watching after minimal time. But that will only work to destroy smaller channels and keep them from growing. Maybe your competition is doing that to you...
This was a really interesting conversation, I learned a lot and Rene is super informed about RUclips. If I can share some feedback, I felt like Jordan didn’t get much of a chance to speak, which is a shame as I’d love to have heard his views more instead of just Hayden who easily took up 90% of this podcast. 😕
Hej! a podcast about Mr. Al Gorithm. Al and I are foes....Sure I respect the guy but he shoots my channel to the black holes of the universe. Fun Video coming up the commercial just finished.
Actually it's because the milennials and sub millennials have never finished a book and don't have focus to conentrate on anything--their attention span is too low
Loved the video but u have to care about the audience. The way you end the video is annoying, it killed the mood, end the story better, you care more about the ART OF THE VIDEO
I was very focused recording this video, unfortunately the camera wasn’t.
Don't worry about it! The information and great questions is what I'm here for! Love from Morocco 🇲🇦
didnt notice it until you mentioned it
I learned and three hours later, laughed.
See you next video.👍
I didn’t seem to notice anything dodgy with the recording even after reading your comment in case that helps :)
Guys pls bring Mack hopkins on the show
Great interview!! And Thanks for the shout out 😊 you duh best Rene
A truly visionary creator makes something that they know will eventually be popular, and has the patience to stay the course without the immediate gratification. Giving in to that need for quick validation is what causes everything on this platform to feel the same.
good point. there's a reason traditional storytelling is the way it is. you are supposed to learn something about the world, not to be dumbed down by so called entertainment.
that said: I've been told mr beast said he couldnt watch the godfather, too slow, he "clicked away" after a few minutes. sad.
It’s insane that we are all targeting 70-80 percent in the first 30 sec. This means one in 4 will leave if it goes amazingly. Wonder how many movie are clicked off in the first 30 sec even on Netflix or other streaming service
Not very many. The way that someone browses RUclips is far different than a streaming platform like Netflix.
@@ruseradio6732 guess it takes so long to decide what to watch that people stick with it 😂
This is actually insane lmao, never thought of it like this it puts it into such a crazy perspective.
@@SpareMango YT is just a different beast 😂
Would be great if they do release the stats though, lol. Everyone can learn a lot from it.
Wow that was a gem. I would be curious to hear Rene’s take on comments as part of the “audience satisfaction” metric. I’ve been a firm believer it’s not the volume of comments - it’s what people are actually saying. Is the algorithm analyzing the nature of the comments?
That would be insane. I am sure it picks up key words in it but real understanding of the context of a comment and interpreting it as a good neutral or negative would be insane. That would take a tone of processing power. Not that they don’t have it 😂
Than how would all these kids channels have all these vieuws while almost all of them have their comments turned off by default?
@@Pawpawmission I would assume the criteria for viewer satisfaction on a channel targeted at 8 year olds is different than something for you and I
@@Pawpawmission AVD parents put their kids in front of YT and they just sit there until it is over
The interview is so good that I never realized the camera was not focused. Best RUclips interview I've ever seen 😍
As a video editor this was so helpful! A problem most of us editors have is thinking our work is the best of the best but it always boils down to what the audience want! The part about putting a dramatic scene at the start is so powerful
Rene is such a legend and I’m so hyped y’all had him on
25:03 we already see creators experimenting with cliff hangers all the time on TikTok whenever there are part 1 and part 2 of content posted. Even though it's definitely a lot more short term maybe 1-2 mins max, we still manage to get invested and wanting to see the final result. While I 100% agree with Hayden that it's annoying af, you're still very inclined to find part 2 and so on, and the proof of that is when you see its massive success on TikTok as all the different parts of the content get good amounts of engagement. The algorithm has no choice but to recommend the original video and the creator to a new audience on the "For You" page.
I very much enjoyed this video! Thank you.
Definitely going to need a second to breathe and take in what I learned here today. Sometimes it feels like the information is overwhelming but I’d rather it be that way in order to learn. Something that I thought about while listening was how to move from the audience focusing on the thing you talk about to focusing on you. In YT, the general thought is that you have to choose a niche in order to get attention because nobody knows you or cares about you, so then pulling them away from that and making them watch for you becomes difficult. The best way to avoid that is to make sure the audience enjoys who you are, your personality has to be highly infused in your content to make it so that even if they can get the same information elsewhere, they’re not gonna get the same you somewhere else.
I never thought to make my thumbnails and titles for my core audience, then change it a week later for a broad audience... i wonder how I should figure out what videos of mine to change for broader audiences since I feel like someone new to my channel seeing only "broader audience" packages might feel soulless. (this is funny because im a vtuber and have no soul to begin with)
I find the parallel between front loading a RUclips video and News Paper writing fascinating. Newspapers have been editing their stories like this for around a hundred years. Their formula was Photo(Thumbnail), Title, First Sentence, First Paragraph, then the rest of the Story. Social Media rediscovering what works best.
This guest had the keys to unlock some of our biggest questions, and concerns about RUclips!
Great job with engaging with Rene and not just straight asking questions and answers. Worth the watch / listen.
The RUclips experience was ruined by "perfect video for you" mentality. RUclips thinks their algorithm is smarter than the viewer, and knows better than the viewer.
It prioritizes clickbait and garbage content when I'm searching specific content, and it makes it harder to find what I'm looking for.
This vid is a slow burn. The ending had some peak info in my opinion🔥🔥
This is the most thought provoking channel on RUclips for creators.
( I love the set you are using today.......looks like they are remodeling the elementary school and the music teacher said you could set up behind the stage.....but clean up nicely when you are done because the PTA meeting is tonight).
When the information is of value......the set is of no significance. tHanks for a great video
Rene is a gem and a wealth of knowledge. Best download this one.
Cool to see where Rene Ritchie has ended up, his name rang a bell when I started the video and it all clicked that I used to watch his videos when he mentioned the apple content. Super insightful stuff
I thought for sure I'd left a comment already, so apologies if this is a dupe, but thank you so much for having me on the podcast! This was one of the most interesting, informative, and engaging discussions I've had about RUclips and deeply appreciate both of you sharing your knowledge and expertise! I learned a ton!
Is there a sharpen filter in Hiller because he was out of focus? that's funny
guest repping the philip defranco merch is subtle awesome
The thing I always wanted to know is, not how the algorithm works, but what are the odds your video will be tested by the algorithm? How many times is it tested (initial sample size)? How good does it have to be (what retention rate) to get tested more?
Those answers would explain a lot, assuming RUclips's description of the algorithm is true. Can a great video die because it was initially showed to just 3 people who are not interested in the topic? Under what conditions would a dead video get picked up months later and then go viral? Etc.
"come in late, get out early"
Love your videos haha we talk about whatever the last week topic was all the time in the editing room (our garage). How do you feel about two separate “big ideas” in a video? When you talk about emotion, and payoff - seems like that discussion is specifically about a singular storyline. What are your thoughts on how to keep “vlogs” with multiple sections engaging?
Yooo I love your videos hahah
Jesus, 1:25s in the video and learned soo much without nothing actually being told yet, love it!
What a great conversation. My fav moment...Rene's last thought. Powerful. 🤓
I love watching your videos. Full stop. Your content is guiding and amazing, and it's brought me a new level of professionalism that I couldn't have achieved without you. I put you on the biggest screen I have as often as I can.
The content is brilliant, again, but
Hayden? Can you please be in focus too?
I can almost see how you've lit the set. A big light for you and Jordan, and either a separate, further away softbox for Rene, OR there's a window high on your left with the sun shining through. Whichever the case, you're too bright for the 2-man shot and that poor camera can't handle it. Your content is always more about the heart and soul of editing, but I feel like attention to detail to remove distractions is key as well. It's like this video says itself, I clicked away because I had agency. My internal question and reason for watching this video switched from "What's Hayden got to say about this? What's Rene got to say about this?," to "... wait, why is JUST HAYDEN out of focus?".
It's honestly distracting to see Jordan clearly and well lit, with soft shadows rolling across his face to give details, Rene have so much detail you can see the different colors of hair on his head and see the swoop of his beard hairs' direction, and you're just kind of ... smudged.
You're an expert, Hayden, and I'd rather see you bot sounding AND looking sharp.
PS, I used a cliffhanger just because you were talking about it.
Well my mind is now blown.... such good stuff.
I'm one of those users that is NOT subscribed to any channel because RUclips tells you whenever your fave people have uploaded a new video. Am l a monster? I do keep a list of my creators of choice just in case the algorithm forgets about them and l haven't seen them around for a while or whatever.
I want to pivot my content... having a hard time with it... I guess it just takes time. Thanks Hayden.
Thanks for the content dudes! btw, who the fuck dislikes such a video??
Kallmekris is a good example where it “feels” the same. But I highly prefer her short content over her long content. Simply because the shorts Only have the best jokes. The long form feels more like the development process of writing jokes. One isn’t better than the other, but I know which one I like more.
Thank you Rene and Team Editing Podcast! Raza :)
The issue with the algorithm is they way it distributes the content. It’ll test the video on your current audience and if it doesn’t perform well there it’ll kill your video. Remove testing with current subscribers and let it push the video to different audience outward. You can have an amazing video but because your main subscriber base is a certain genre the video will die.
I feel like RUclips not showing dislikes is why RUclips is so much worse now and riddled with bad content.
I would love this episode more if the pace of the interviewee was a little more on the calm side. He speaks really fast! Yes, I can rewatch some parts or pause sometimes, but man! Chill out, there's no timer. These are cool interviews.
In the shot where you see Hayden & Jordan it seems like Hayden just has a lower resolution ???
or maybe more sharpness applied? Whats going on there?
OHH I think he was out of focus and this is how they fixed it
Stop the "Beastification" of RUclips (hate that word) Let's get more Breaking Badism
Man, Jordan doesn’t say a word until 12:39. I’d like to see the cohost be a cohost more often. Love Hayden, but let your cohost be a cohost too!
I am getting Colin and Samir vibes now... I am enjoying it!
31:18 any news on a/b testing for titles?
Maybe I am wrong, but what it seems like to me is that YT wants to sell ads, the one who gets the click sells the ad right? So why do videos with terrible stats get lots of clicks? Imho it comes down to a clickable thumbnail above all. That is the only thing that truly makes sense to me anymore... that is consistent. Thanks guys!
Strategy: "Find out what videos people are going to love from me going forward and give them more of those videos to love." Understanding connection: " Content is about the shorter or longer version of the same feeling engendered with the audience." Algorithm : "If everyone who watched your previous video engages with your new video quickly and loves it and exhausts your current viewing audience, it will then be broadcast to a database of viewers with a similar profile to your audience and then will test it with new audience profiles - For that "Device" for that "Mood for that time guessing the viewers context". Data: " The thumbnails served up to people, are people going to click on them, watch and share the video, Can you convert as it Doesn't matter how many impressions you get, if people don't click" AB Testing is a Thing that needs to be tested! RUclips is about audience. Thumbnails and title - "Think like the magazine on the news stand and why people buy it" You tube is about audience Psychology. Great video Thanks for sharing this. Stay safe, have fun! ✋👊🍻😁👍
Thanks for this Guy ❤
idk why but my instincts is telling me jordan orme is either kidnapped or blackmailed by Hillier or maybe some sort of indian black magic is wandering around him. Why the he*l is he soo much like... that silient protagonist who has some hidden secrets and can blow any M_F_ down at any instant of time?
Nah... I ain't making infomercials people, I want to create something that I love doing, I will just keep making videos on my channel that I want to make. Otherwise this will just keep dividing!
Incredibly helpful, thank you
This is why my videos on my channel will always be a failure. I do slow burn, because that's what is actually involved. That's what it is. At least I enjoy it.
wow this is deep.
I can usually predict how show or movie will end, but if it’s good enough I enjoy the journey. Spoilers don’t ruin it for me
I really enjoyed this video! Thank you guys for the amazing tips
Great Conversation Fellas
I really really enjoy these episodes. 🥂
I want to see the Hayden version of the Blindness video.
its seem like you guys really liked the dairy of the CEO podcast
Thank you
i WAS THE 1000TH LIKE! I just made my first Video and you Inspired me... Thank you Hillier!
Just sharing my first videos too. These podcasts are helpful
Love this podcast
Wow.....not only Rene...but Al & Todd are in this video! The only other RUclips star I know is that supermodel Anna Lytics. (..I never visit her office - I know of her)
( Al Gorithm isn't against me......He's actually good at his job...whereas...I am not )
hahahah I'm pissed at the algorithm at least once a day
Ha, yes! I can feel you on that 😅
Loving it
i personally give credit to the algorithm for when videos get a lot of views and when they dont! lol
This doesn't explain why youtube keeps suggesting insects in my home feed.
Brilliant
This is a video that is so packed with valuable information that I want to delete all my RUclips videos right NOW and start all over again! Thank you Hayden and Jordan for asking the questions that needed to be asked. And great insights from Rene Ritchie. (9th August 2023).
amazing podcast!!
Guys pls bring Mack hopkins on the show.
Yo you guys should stop down on your camera. Your highlights are blown. Seems like you had plenty of light to close up that Aperature and that would've put yourself in better focus. Just a suggestion for next time guys, great discussion once again!
Only thing I'd add about sub is they still matter to at least 1K, beyond they matter if you want to build a community, agree or not?
it doesn't matter youtube only got worse by the years and one successful video isn't enough
What Riverside not Streamyard ❓
16:42
18:47
Top content
Tryin Reach Souls Uh Oh Lol Gatta Sneak round back Lol
something went wrong in your camera on Aidan and Jordan
Dudes, thank you for these videos but please go get some rest :)
Buy ads on other channels that match your demographic. Bring audience to you that will watch the longest and have the highest likelihood to subscribe and like. For your competition, do the opposite. Buy ads for their videos on channels with a completely unrelated demographic. This will send viewers to their channel that will vote their content down and stop watching after minimal time. But that will only work to destroy smaller channels and keep them from growing. Maybe your competition is doing that to you...
16:00
How can we get in contact with you?
Not First
“Best” videos is so, so, so insanely overrated in what makes it on RUclips. I believe it’s most shameless and shallow.
This was a really interesting conversation, I learned a lot and Rene is super informed about RUclips. If I can share some feedback, I felt like Jordan didn’t get much of a chance to speak, which is a shame as I’d love to have heard his views more instead of just Hayden who easily took up 90% of this podcast. 😕
Well rene is going to know alot about RUclips since he works at RUclips lol
@@peachxtaehyung Sherlock, is that you? 🙄
Hej! a podcast about Mr. Al Gorithm. Al and I are foes....Sure I respect the guy but he shoots my channel to the black holes of the universe.
Fun Video coming up the commercial just finished.
😅😅
A Netflix movie filmed in Mr beast style 😅
Al Gorithm
Actually it's because the milennials and sub millennials have never finished a book and don't have focus to conentrate on anything--their attention span is too low
First
Loved the video but u have to care about the audience. The way you end the video is annoying, it killed the mood, end the story better, you care more about the ART OF THE VIDEO
Everything is going to be ok.
Misinformation and lies
Why? I would like to hear Ur take on this.
How do you figure?? What's misinfo? Rene works at RUclips I think he knows what's going on