I spent 3 years mostly working as the only editor for a RUclipsr with over 3 million subscribers uploading daily content. I eventually forced myself away from that work and I'm now post production manager for a highly successful broadcast and production company. I could talk for hours about all the things I've learnt throughout these periods of my life, I wish I was sitting around that table with you both! It's so important that RUclips can mature in this regard as RUclips editors are often SO incredibly talented and are sacrificing years of their lives for their RUclips client(s) when they could otherwise be working with many different companies or individuals, earning far more money in much better conditions and developing their portfolio and experience. Something needs to change
any advice for where to start for someone looking to work in better conditions? i feel like the market is so competitive it's hard to find even social media jobs let alone in a post production hosue
I’ve worked with a range of RUclips creators. What I’ve found most helpful is to provide Creators with a checklist of what you’ll do. No more. Most Creators think that you would go back and go through all their content but there are still nuances that get missed unless you actually talk in depth w the creator. A lot of creators ask what’s your rate for a 10min video. The more important question here is how many minutes of footage I have to boil down into a 10min video. The footage-to-cut ratio is one of the biggest factor that should drive how much you charge. What I’ve seen sometime happen is that creators will start making rough cuts over which I clean up everything in terms of cuts, sound, pacing and motion graphics. Yes I’ll charge a lil less but it’s less work and less stress for me.
This is so true! As someone who wants to get into editing, I had a chance to edit for someone a 10 minute video.... from 2h of footage for very little pay. I tried editing it but soon realised that it's just not worth it and I'd rather just continue searching for other creators with more fair circumstances for what I give in return
As fun as editing in the RUclips space is, the hardest part about it is that channels require consistent uploads, regardless of pre-production and production’s quality, and then it falls on post-production to pull the weight, at the expense of your time. All departments of the production process need to grow in quality, simultaneously.
RUclips requires consistency of output. Look at Linus tech tips about how many back end staff they need to produce professional quality RUclips on various subjects. Please note the algorithm likes consistent predictive results not random quality multiple times a day!
The story at the beginning is so on point. I could fill a book with similar stories where eventual I just walked away thinking what the heck just happened here?
What a goldmine of an episode for editors or anyone in this type of industry. It's also very eye-opening to realize that although web content has scaled tremendously from its infancy days, it's still developing. Wonderful insight! Stir is so cool.
The big difference isn't about the money. It's about the team. RUclips editors generally have to do everything, whereas in traditional TV and movies, there is a team of editors, each with an Assistant Editor. Then there's a whole separate team to do just color correction (and online editing). And there is also another full team for Sound. Probably a total of 20 people are needed to produce the traditional content we see on Netflix and the Movie Theaters. Even if they wanted to work on RUclips, they wouldn't because they have to have to wear too many hats. There is certainly a massive (and growing) need for 'RUclips editors' but this doesn't have to mean getting them for super cheap. It means people who CHOOSE to focus their career on RUclips videos and thus becoming good at editing, color, and sound (all at a lower level than the traditional teams). If you have all these skills you are very valuable in this growing world of RUclips.
18:10 - One of the biggest assets, and frustrations as well, in editing for youtube clients, is that 8 out of 10 times, you would just get some audio clip and you would have to perform magic with it (source all the clips, do all the graphics, figure out when and where to use captions and what they should be), essentially giving you a job on top of the editing job you already had. If they're nice and somewhat professional, maybe they'll give you that narration in a word file and call that a script and give you a general sense of what style they're going for and what they like, but it was still always up to me to figure out all the creative stuff (the best I experienced is that they had a drive folder with their preferred music and memes, sometimes a couple of motion graphics, but those are B and C tier creators we're talking about, so better than the 90% of others out there, but still far from perfect). And like I said, that could be an asset, because if I have some presets I already made for a particular niche of video, and if I can help them figure out what it is that they're missing, it's great, but that's not the stuff you're getting paid for. In fact, nobody is counting the hours of you searching for the appropriate footage and music, nobody is counting the fact that I'm using my Storyblocks account, that I spent how many minutes or hours even in photoshop editing just photos and assets to use... They only pay for hours of editing, and that was the best-case scenario which is seemingly harder to find on freelancing sites. The worst case scenario, people are offering 20$ per video, no questions asked. They call these channels "cashcows", and I know that their content is almost generated (drop footage you found by using keywords, apply some seamless transition presets with no rhyme or reason, and call it a day), but not only can I not imagine an actual human being watching those videos and liking them, but I don't know what actual human person wants to make that and considers 20$ payments fair (regardless of where you're from... I'm from a developing country myself, and that is still so low... for the US, that is a fucking crime. In the economy where they're asking us to use as little electricity as possible, with the energy crisis and all, turning your computer on and opening Premiere isn't worth it for that money). I got off on a long tangent, but what I'm trying to say is that most creators aren't even "creators" in a real way because they're not thinking visually, they're not considering the viewer, they're not watch youtube or films as a matter of fact, and mainly see the platform as a dumping ground where you just shove a bunch of content where they're either selling themselves as influencers or are selling some actual products, - thinking its a magical box that shits out money in return. As editors (especially including myself, since whenever the jobs aren't coming, you start to question what is acceptable, which is bad) we should develop some spine and say no to people who think that just because they decided to make low-effort content, you shouldn't be paid a living wage.
Thank you so much for making this podcast. As someone who recently graduated to be an editor with no interest in film, I've been looking for more information on the experiences and proper balances of RUclips editors. I've been fortunate enough to find work. But the ground is so untapped that it feels as if there's a need for both my creator to train me on expectations, and for me to train them on ways to communicate. Your podcast has made me much more willing to speak with confidence on that and potentially made a rocky relationship into a mutually happy one. Thanks again, and looking forward to more!
“It comes down to the lack of preparedness in pre-production, honestly. Everything that doesn’t get done in production or pre-production falls on post.” Such a good quote to really drive home that planning is so important! As a Program Manager, I also use similar work back schedules for all of my projects and add a bit of buffer to that as well in case there are any delays.
Please don't micro-manage your editors and pay them what they're worth. Not sure how your style is, but this is rampant in the editing industry if it's not entertainmemt.
I definitely experienced a client thinking “take my video and make it something and bring in revenue”, man what a crazy clip that was, editing 3 8+ minute videos a week… after crunching my numbers making less at my previous part-time assistant manager job for double the work 🥴
definitely something to think about on my end. I genuinely like the people I work with, but this accepting compensation below our worth or in some cases no compensation at all perpetuates a predatory work environment
Took me the first 10 years of my editing career to get a full-time job that was not on RUclips. I gained a lot of skills that are valuable, but I'm so happy to be in a properly staffed position.
@@charisma-hornum-fries you're fine I'm happy to share! I'm luckier than most RUclips editors, outside the first year I made ~$200 a video. I was also working for the 5th most subscribed channel at the time, so it wasn't like today where people are asking for a full 10 minute video for $20 and you have to bank off a percentage of adsense. But even being that lucky doesn't compare to actual editing jobs, that it took me years to break into the industry for (that the RUclips experience absolutely prepared me for)
I just wanted to say that I love your podcast. I work for various German RUclipsrs and content creators. You guys are telling exactly and I am thinking and you offer such a great value for anyone who is beginning with editing. Thanks!❤
This was great!! I actually took a ton of cues from large corporations’ best practices and applied that to my freelance work. You mentioned one of them: Workback Schedules! It’s one of many best practices that really help to keep things on track and manageable. The challenge is getting creators to adopt or even just respect your workflow, as some of them work in a very “abstract” way hehe.
A big creator i found on LinkedIn with multiple channels combining to 25-30 MILLION subscribers, only wanted to pay 30k/y but edit for ALL the channels. Insane, and ALSO wanted people to relocate to them.
This channel is truly helping give insight into a career I’ve put off for too long! After a DECADE in SOF, I’m leaving the military and going to Film School! I look forward to the next discussion.
As someone who is trying to get more and more into freelance video editing, what Jordan said at 34:54 really resonated with me because I recently left a company where I initially loved working, but as time went on it became more and more difficult to work with them because of what they demanded. It wasn't something I was enjoying and really dreaded going to work each day. It felt like the projects just dragged on and on. This episode of the podcast was killer, thank you!
This was so relatable. I am now in the position that I am looking at hiring shooters and editors and this was a great refresher on my come up. I'm here to be part of the solution when it comes to helping future creators.
Thx for putting the time into this episode you guys! Very interesting listen/view. I've been cutting unscripted for almost 20 years, love to hear your perspective on traditional media vs new media vs youtube. Great job.
This is a great podcast. Just subscribed. For so long I've been tuning into different podcast for the Freelancning, Graphic Design & Video Editing space. I have now found the right place for me
You guys are awesome for sharing this conversation with us all. You've given me tons to think about as a creator going forward as I'm just barely starting to think about hiring help. 👊
This is actually great! I'm an aspiring creator but love editing videos too and I feel anyone who has ever edited even 1 video will know how much work, time and effort it takes to make a great video. The people who don't pay their editors more, probably haven't edited a single video in their life or are just shitty exploitative people who takes advantage of their editors because they know they need the income which is absolutely horrendous. It's downright abusive when editing is something that can totally make or break a video. It's great you open the conversation with this for aspiring editors to also protect them. Great job guys!
We’re editing a docu-series for Lawrence the Band and the integration of Stir in this video is fantastically helpful. Haven’t seen a brand integration this useful or graceful in a while. Congrats boys ❤🎉
Was a great watch! I realize that I have a real love for editing and I am still learning. I wanted to start freelancing but struggled a bit with valuing myself and how to tell customers "sorry, this won't work...". I will be giving more thought about how much I charge, and what kind of services to provide as well as working closer to the creator to provide them with what they want. I also would like to look into editing for TV and streaming services. Sounds pretty good... This entire discussion was very insightful and I hope the channel continues to grow.
Thank you very much for this input!!! I just subscribed! I really, really like your vibe, atmosphere and attitude 😘 Calm, confident, authentic and also transparent, that your dont have all the answers ❤️❤️
Really enjoyed the frank discussion around pay. It's so hard to navigate this realm when the information isn't as widespread. Especially in terms of RUclips where the editor could be the one adding that secret sauce of keeping audiences watching. Certainly agree its 2 way street and should be more collaborative! :D
This was a really insightful discussion. I'd love to see an episode where you invite a few creators come discuss their experiences with hiring and working with editors. I'd especially love to hear what types of things the creators learned about working with editors, how to best setup pre-production and production to make things smoother in post, and their first experiences hiring. I've been working with my first editor for a few months now and things have been going really well.
Great Podcast, kudos to both of you. Would love a podcast on Hayden's process of video editing. Like what planning you do and choosing how to edit this video, this would be cool.
This is super cool, never really understood or gave much thought to the business side of editing on either film/online content. You guys are saving some people from getting swindled, I'm sure of it!
I'm an amateur editor and the work experience I had was very similar to the reddit post you shared. I used to edit exclusively for a youtube content creator as the main part of my job and I loved editing their content. I was pretty gutted when the person who had hired me suddenly came out and told me that he couldn't afford to pay me anymore and I was given 3 weeks notice after having worked for his business for 2 years. I'm glad that I came across this podcast because I love being an editor and being able to listen to other editor's experiences has been pretty enlightening.
Such great content! I'm not even close to being able to hire an editor but proper pay has been a major concern, the valuing advice helps put me at ease haha
The editor to the video is as the salesman to the compony, there for, editors should get commotion form the videos revenue. no salesman = no compony, no editor = no video. Great podcast, looking forward for the next episode
Thanks so much. This was so interesting and important for people to know. The reality is that most of us on YT just don’t have the revenues to hire a professional editor at realistic rates. I would love to have an editor. However, I know that it isn’t possible at the moment. Even with 100k subscribers and around 30-40k views per video, I would be seriously out of pocket if I wanted to hire a good editor.
I've loved your content every since I saw your coverage of Quebec's separatism! The recent Quebec elections highlighted a strong, pragmatic nationalism, as the cannibalizing cost of the separatist movement' structure, and the traditional Liberal federalist party. Your expertise and content is such a unique, interesting niche!
Holy moly, thank you for this weekly gift! So many golden nuggets: 1. The quality of your job offering is correlate to the quality of talent that you'll attract (fair wages $3,783 a week for 5 days a week, work-life balance, great equipment). 2. Start studying traditional media (cinema + movies) to learn the best practices that can apply to the Wild West that is RUclips. 3. The biggest mistake creators can make is assuming that the editor knows what going on in their head. The relationship between the Director (creator) and the Editor is crucial. It is the directors responsibility to communicate what they want, the editor isn't a mind reader. 4. Choose your trade-off. Either spend more time on pre-production so the story is established, or give more time (instead of setting unrealistic deadlines) to post-production. You can't have your cake and eat it too, it'll just be a nasty cake.
Hey guys. Thanks for giving from your time to record this conversation. One of the side effects of RUclips and generally web editing is that nowadays After Effects or similar 2D softwares became part of the requirements for an editor to be hired. In TV and cinema - if someone asks me for that kind of work I would point him to the VFX team or to hire a VFX artist. Those rules still apply in productions above certain budget threshold.
I would love an episode based on lost projects/failing harddrives, and how you’ve dealt with it if you ever had. I recently lost a project I had spent 40hrs on that was only halfway finished due to my computer just crashing and wiping everything I had on it when I accidentally pressed “restart” instead of “shut down” And no, I definitely did not press “reset”
3 is 2, 2 is 1, 1 is none. In other words, if you only have one copy of your working files, you may as well have none, because at some point things are gonna go sideways and you don't get to choose when that time will be. Always have at least one backup of your footage, set project backups/autosaves and manually back up your project file/timeline at lunchtime and then again at the end of the day, preferably to the cloud or a separate drive/computer. Have AT LEAST one backup copy of all of your raw footage, with preferably one offsite (in case of fire/flood/meteor strike etc). If you're working for paying customers, there is absolutely no excuse for losing a project. There are simple ways to protect yourself.
The importance of that editor/director relationship or style guide is so necessary. I used to work as a freelance scenic fabricator building sets and some clients I’ve worked with would hand over a pretty picture without any details like crucial dimension information and it often fell on us to also design the thing that we were just being paid to build, which was incredibly frustrating. At the end of the day, I didn’t care what the project looked like bc it really wasn’t my design. I cared that I built it to their exact specifications bc they were in charge.
This is a great video for all creative freelancers! As a voiceover talent, the same exact things apply to VO on RUclips. Small channels want to hire pro voice actors to do a lot of work for little to no money. I regularly voice a number of YT channels BUT they are large companies who use YT as a marketing outlet as opposed to Creator channels who want to use YT as an income source. Knowing this difference helps you as the freelancer target the specific type of client who understands your value.
I think a big part of the issue here in comparing Hollywood Vs the “wild west” that is RUclips is that most “RUclipsrs” can’t really afford editors and would be in the negative if they paid editors Hollywood rates. RUclips takes 50% of the earnings. Quality takes a backseat to subject & quantity because everything is disposable. You watch it once generally and are forever done with it. TikTok is setting the industry standards and the standard is shot on the phone, shoddy key out, quick laughs, shock value or controversy and onto the next thing. That’s not a space for feature film story editors. RUclips is not really a safe space in terms of career. The rules are constantly changing and when things go wrong, no matter what level you’re at, you’re told to suck it up and keep it moving, even if you’re playing by whatever the rules are that day. I know someone who just the other day lost a full day of monetization for no reason at all. RUclips systems just goofed. No compensation for all the lost earnings for that day. Just gotta keep it moving. And that’s just THAT angle of things, setting aside the social hostility of comments and isolation from perpetual work. In that kind of space where creators are expected to just deal and constantly pump out to keep up, I think the best thing an editor can do that’s interested in RUclips is strike a deal for percentage or a small percentage on top of the wages offered. RUclips is not going to fix this. And the competition in this space is only growing.
AMAZING CONTENT as always fellas! What Jordan said was so true, it's all about pre-production. If you think about another area of traditional media: sports editors. Once the game is finished they MUST have the full highlights completely ready after one ad break. To even begin discussing how much planning has to go into this, to make the editors job easy as they edit during a game... it's insane. Then furthermore, sports editors charge ridiculously high rates per game. E.g. I knew one guy who charged 22k (AU) per game because no one else in the city knew how to do what he did.
I have an idea for a video, maybe discuss what it is an editor needs from the creator to make a great video? Style guides, footage, pre production. What’s the ideal client providing/doing?
I edit my own videos and I couldn't see myself ever outsourcing this task...I feel it's so important in the creator process. It takes me longer but I love it there is always something new to learn.
Hi guys, big fan of your podcast!! I’m old, 50, I did my video career in the US and due to family issues I had to come back and live in Spain. I got back in the game of editing, now remotely, and I love it, but dynamics and rules, have definitely changed since the 90s. I’m slowly catching up to your podcast, listening to all of them, and just listened to this one. I completely agree that each editor knows how much they’re worth, but HONESTY is something that plays into it and having those high dollar pays, like the one you mentioned for Netflix, may get some young kids to step into that blurry line of experience and honesty. If I were to get paid 3Gs per week, I’ll be sweating and questioning every single cut I make….yikessss!!! Anyhow, I love your content and I enjoy listening to your podcast weekly. Keep it up!!
I never stick to listening podcasts but this one was just made for me, the only podcast i'll ever watch and listen to, start to finish. Great content guys!
I love how broad youtube scene is. In one extreme, you got LTT who can probably start cinema level production company with all the crazy stuff he has, and you got this guy where even a mouse is an uneccasry luxury
I'm planning on getting good at editing and editing my own videos for my yt, but this has taught me alot about what it's like to be an editor. It's honestly true that there are so many dog channels and creators that don't know what they're doing, and hiring editors that they don't deserve, and giving them the shittest work environment possible, and even then they won't grow
I absolutely love content and the real conversations. RUclips is still such an uncharted territory. If you are good and you know how to sell yourself, then that's a magic pill
Very interesting video! I love the insight between creators and editors and makes total sense to me. Do you guys work with any creator? I found really weird that creatives do not understand deadline pressures because we have deadlines that are super stressful as well!
I had a similar experience as that reddit user - but as a young screenwriter. The "producer" couldn't type and didn't like computers, so he hired me to come over and write while he stood behind me and explained what he was trying to convey. It lasted about an hour. 😂 Enjoyed the convo! Wild West is right. You can see why unions were formed for this profession, early on in Hollywood.
16:11 I just want to thank you for saying "a long ten minute video." When I tell people how much time it takes me to get a minute or two of video edited I feel like they think I must be an idiot. I edit my own videos (and I'm a nooby still learning) so I'm writer, director, producer, cameraman, sound and video editor and my own worse critic. But I'm really enjoying it.
Love this, I am Editor and Creator, I am guilty of passing the work to the editor part, and now I realise I need to be more pre production and planning, to my editing easier.
@8:17, I would've left, I have left from jobs like this. And it also taught me the skill of explaining work boundaries, best practices, and managing expectations.
Love the content fellas! As a new creator I do everything myself for now which has made me really appreciate everything that goes into editing videos. My game plan is to get the videos up to a certain quality so that I can better communicate with an editor what I’m looking for which will help build the relationship on the right foot. Currently it can take me anywhere from 9-20 days to edit a single video and I do it full-time (8-16 hours a day) since I retired from my 9-5. I was a people manager at Citigroup for 10 years so you can expect to be treated with respect unlike that awful Reddit story 😂. I do hope as a content creator I can make enough sooner rather than later to have the business pay for that important team member. If there are any editors that would like to start communicating with me while I am still a small channel that would be awesome. You can find the links to start the conversation with me under the ‘About’ tab on my YT Channel.
I worked for ITV at £480 per day and a RUclipsr approached me and offered £20 per video! hahaha
😂
What else were you expecting? $500
😂😂😂😂
Fiver 🎉 hahaha
I think it’s impressive that you laugh about it. I find it so offensive when ppl undervalue your work/role and feel entitled like that.
I had no idea editor culture was that toxic. Thanks for sharing.
Its the clients not the editors.
I spent 3 years mostly working as the only editor for a RUclipsr with over 3 million subscribers uploading daily content. I eventually forced myself away from that work and I'm now post production manager for a highly successful broadcast and production company. I could talk for hours about all the things I've learnt throughout these periods of my life, I wish I was sitting around that table with you both! It's so important that RUclips can mature in this regard as RUclips editors are often SO incredibly talented and are sacrificing years of their lives for their RUclips client(s) when they could otherwise be working with many different companies or individuals, earning far more money in much better conditions and developing their portfolio and experience. Something needs to change
Thanks for looking after yourself!!
Jeez. So glad i edit my own crap crapily 🍿 😊
Interesting.
any advice for where to start for someone looking to work in better conditions? i feel like the market is so competitive it's hard to find even social media jobs let alone in a post production hosue
I really like the "As the creator grows, the editor grows with them" concept that Hayden was talking about. It just makes sense
Agreed, getting stuck at a set price while the creator continues to grow isn't fun
@RWCK whats your discord?
I’ve worked with a range of RUclips creators. What I’ve found most helpful is to provide Creators with a checklist of what you’ll do. No more. Most Creators think that you would go back and go through all their content but there are still nuances that get missed unless you actually talk in depth w the creator.
A lot of creators ask what’s your rate for a 10min video. The more important question here is how many minutes of footage I have to boil down into a 10min video. The footage-to-cut ratio is one of the biggest factor that should drive how much you charge.
What I’ve seen sometime happen is that creators will start making rough cuts over which I clean up everything in terms of cuts, sound, pacing and motion graphics. Yes I’ll charge a lil less but it’s less work and less stress for me.
Footage to cut ratio, very insightful! Man this is so cool to hear dude, thanks for writing your experience.
This is so true! As someone who wants to get into editing, I had a chance to edit for someone a 10 minute video.... from 2h of footage for very little pay. I tried editing it but soon realised that it's just not worth it and I'd rather just continue searching for other creators with more fair circumstances for what I give in return
As fun as editing in the RUclips space is, the hardest part about it is that channels require consistent uploads, regardless of pre-production and production’s quality, and then it falls on post-production to pull the weight, at the expense of your time. All departments of the production process need to grow in quality, simultaneously.
agreed!
Thats what makes it fun for me 😅
RUclips requires consistency of output.
Look at Linus tech tips about how many back end staff they need to produce professional quality RUclips on various subjects.
Please note the algorithm likes consistent predictive results not random quality multiple times a day!
The story at the beginning is so on point. I could fill a book with similar stories where eventual I just walked away thinking what the heck just happened here?
This is legit super helpful for a creator who is looking at hopefully hiring an editor soon 🙏
What a goldmine of an episode for editors or anyone in this type of industry. It's also very eye-opening to realize that although web content has scaled tremendously from its infancy days, it's still developing. Wonderful insight! Stir is so cool.
The big difference isn't about the money. It's about the team. RUclips editors generally have to do everything, whereas in traditional TV and movies, there is a team of editors, each with an Assistant Editor. Then there's a whole separate team to do just color correction (and online editing). And there is also another full team for Sound. Probably a total of 20 people are needed to produce the traditional content we see on Netflix and the Movie Theaters. Even if they wanted to work on RUclips, they wouldn't because they have to have to wear too many hats. There is certainly a massive (and growing) need for 'RUclips editors' but this doesn't have to mean getting them for super cheap. It means people who CHOOSE to focus their career on RUclips videos and thus becoming good at editing, color, and sound (all at a lower level than the traditional teams). If you have all these skills you are very valuable in this growing world of RUclips.
18:10 - One of the biggest assets, and frustrations as well, in editing for youtube clients, is that 8 out of 10 times, you would just get some audio clip and you would have to perform magic with it (source all the clips, do all the graphics, figure out when and where to use captions and what they should be), essentially giving you a job on top of the editing job you already had. If they're nice and somewhat professional, maybe they'll give you that narration in a word file and call that a script and give you a general sense of what style they're going for and what they like, but it was still always up to me to figure out all the creative stuff (the best I experienced is that they had a drive folder with their preferred music and memes, sometimes a couple of motion graphics, but those are B and C tier creators we're talking about, so better than the 90% of others out there, but still far from perfect). And like I said, that could be an asset, because if I have some presets I already made for a particular niche of video, and if I can help them figure out what it is that they're missing, it's great, but that's not the stuff you're getting paid for. In fact, nobody is counting the hours of you searching for the appropriate footage and music, nobody is counting the fact that I'm using my Storyblocks account, that I spent how many minutes or hours even in photoshop editing just photos and assets to use... They only pay for hours of editing, and that was the best-case scenario which is seemingly harder to find on freelancing sites. The worst case scenario, people are offering 20$ per video, no questions asked. They call these channels "cashcows", and I know that their content is almost generated (drop footage you found by using keywords, apply some seamless transition presets with no rhyme or reason, and call it a day), but not only can I not imagine an actual human being watching those videos and liking them, but I don't know what actual human person wants to make that and considers 20$ payments fair (regardless of where you're from... I'm from a developing country myself, and that is still so low... for the US, that is a fucking crime. In the economy where they're asking us to use as little electricity as possible, with the energy crisis and all, turning your computer on and opening Premiere isn't worth it for that money).
I got off on a long tangent, but what I'm trying to say is that most creators aren't even "creators" in a real way because they're not thinking visually, they're not considering the viewer, they're not watch youtube or films as a matter of fact, and mainly see the platform as a dumping ground where you just shove a bunch of content where they're either selling themselves as influencers or are selling some actual products, - thinking its a magical box that shits out money in return. As editors (especially including myself, since whenever the jobs aren't coming, you start to question what is acceptable, which is bad) we should develop some spine and say no to people who think that just because they decided to make low-effort content, you shouldn't be paid a living wage.
Bro this wanna the best comments I’ve read I know this reply late but I hope u see this
Thank you so much for making this podcast. As someone who recently graduated to be an editor with no interest in film, I've been looking for more information on the experiences and proper balances of RUclips editors. I've been fortunate enough to find work. But the ground is so untapped that it feels as if there's a need for both my creator to train me on expectations, and for me to train them on ways to communicate. Your podcast has made me much more willing to speak with confidence on that and potentially made a rocky relationship into a mutually happy one.
Thanks again, and looking forward to more!
“It comes down to the lack of preparedness in pre-production, honestly. Everything that doesn’t get done in production or pre-production falls on post.”
Such a good quote to really drive home that planning is so important! As a Program Manager, I also use similar work back schedules for all of my projects and add a bit of buffer to that as well in case there are any delays.
Great conversation love the angle of looking at traditional media to best adapt into our industry. Congrats to you both on this new endeavor ✨
Please don't micro-manage your editors and pay them what they're worth. Not sure how your style is, but this is rampant in the editing industry if it's not entertainmemt.
What a phenomenal podcast, i’m hooked! Well done guys, great content 👌
I definitely experienced a client thinking “take my video and make it something and bring in revenue”, man what a crazy clip that was, editing 3 8+ minute videos a week… after crunching my numbers making less at my previous part-time assistant manager job for double the work 🥴
definitely something to think about on my end. I genuinely like the people I work with, but this accepting compensation below our worth or in some cases no compensation at all perpetuates a predatory work environment
I would rather eat a lightbulb than edit on a trackpad.
Took me the first 10 years of my editing career to get a full-time job that was not on RUclips. I gained a lot of skills that are valuable, but I'm so happy to be in a properly staffed position.
Yes! Nice to have a stable job
I was going to ask how you paid rent for those 10 years. Not that it’s any of my business but I hope you had some kind livable situation.
@@charisma-hornum-fries you're fine I'm happy to share! I'm luckier than most RUclips editors, outside the first year I made ~$200 a video. I was also working for the 5th most subscribed channel at the time, so it wasn't like today where people are asking for a full 10 minute video for $20 and you have to bank off a percentage of adsense. But even being that lucky doesn't compare to actual editing jobs, that it took me years to break into the industry for (that the RUclips experience absolutely prepared me for)
I just wanted to say that I love your podcast. I work for various German RUclipsrs and content creators. You guys are telling exactly and I am thinking and you offer such a great value for anyone who is beginning with editing. Thanks!❤
I'm an editor for a RUclipsr and this is music to my ears. Thank you guys for this podcast!
This was great!! I actually took a ton of cues from large corporations’ best practices and applied that to my freelance work. You mentioned one of them: Workback Schedules! It’s one of many best practices that really help to keep things on track and manageable. The challenge is getting creators to adopt or even just respect your workflow, as some of them work in a very “abstract” way hehe.
A big creator i found on LinkedIn with multiple channels combining to 25-30 MILLION subscribers, only wanted to pay 30k/y but edit for ALL the channels. Insane, and ALSO wanted people to relocate to them.
I'm already loving the quality upgrades matching mics, moving camera when it pans out. Amazing! Well done.
This channel is truly helping give insight into a career I’ve put off for too long! After a DECADE in SOF, I’m leaving the military and going to Film School! I look forward to the next discussion.
As someone who is trying to get more and more into freelance video editing, what Jordan said at 34:54 really resonated with me because I recently left a company where I initially loved working, but as time went on it became more and more difficult to work with them because of what they demanded. It wasn't something I was enjoying and really dreaded going to work each day. It felt like the projects just dragged on and on. This episode of the podcast was killer, thank you!
This was so relatable. I am now in the position that I am looking at hiring shooters and editors and this was a great refresher on my come up. I'm here to be part of the solution when it comes to helping future creators.
This is great. I'm an editor if it's remote
Professionalism meets ideocracy. Please make this an ongoing series, it will help evolve humanity concerning novice and pro video editing!!!
This podcast is amazing. The way you described editing as slightly painful for a beautiful result was perfect
Thx for putting the time into this episode you guys! Very interesting listen/view. I've been cutting unscripted for almost 20 years, love to hear your perspective on traditional media vs new media vs youtube. Great job.
This is a great podcast. Just subscribed. For so long I've been tuning into different podcast for the Freelancning, Graphic Design & Video Editing space. I have now found the right place for me
You guys are awesome for sharing this conversation with us all. You've given me tons to think about as a creator going forward as I'm just barely starting to think about hiring help. 👊
This is actually great! I'm an aspiring creator but love editing videos too and I feel anyone who has ever edited even 1 video will know how much work, time and effort it takes to make a great video. The people who don't pay their editors more, probably haven't edited a single video in their life or are just shitty exploitative people who takes advantage of their editors because they know they need the income which is absolutely horrendous. It's downright abusive when editing is something that can totally make or break a video. It's great you open the conversation with this for aspiring editors to also protect them. Great job guys!
Love the channel! Been recommending your videos to my friends that want to become editors after we finish film school! ❤️
We’re editing a docu-series for Lawrence the Band and the integration of Stir in this video is fantastically helpful. Haven’t seen a brand integration this useful or graceful in a while. Congrats boys ❤🎉
Great band!
Bro this channel is awesome! I’m really loving this whole format and info from this vid
Was a great watch! I realize that I have a real love for editing and I am still learning. I wanted to start freelancing but struggled a bit with valuing myself and how to tell customers "sorry, this won't work...". I will be giving more thought about how much I charge, and what kind of services to provide as well as working closer to the creator to provide them with what they want.
I also would like to look into editing for TV and streaming services. Sounds pretty good...
This entire discussion was very insightful and I hope the channel continues to grow.
Amazing episode, I have been thinking about this for a couple of months now. I truly hope current and future creators watch this.
This is quickly becoming one of my favorite podcasts. Another great episode, gentleman!
Thank you very much for this input!!!
I just subscribed! I really, really like your vibe, atmosphere and attitude 😘
Calm, confident, authentic and also transparent, that your dont have all the answers ❤️❤️
Am very excited about this podcast! Love both of your works and it's much appreciated that you are sharing your insights!
You don’t understand how much I appreciate this conversation! Thank you!
Really enjoyed the frank discussion around pay. It's so hard to navigate this realm when the information isn't as widespread. Especially in terms of RUclips where the editor could be the one adding that secret sauce of keeping audiences watching. Certainly agree its 2 way street and should be more collaborative! :D
Really loved this conversation. I’m brand new to editing but am completely intoxicated by it. Thanks for the wealth of information!
This was a really insightful discussion. I'd love to see an episode where you invite a few creators come discuss their experiences with hiring and working with editors. I'd especially love to hear what types of things the creators learned about working with editors, how to best setup pre-production and production to make things smoother in post, and their first experiences hiring. I've been working with my first editor for a few months now and things have been going really well.
This should be an ongoing video series.
Great Podcast, kudos to both of you. Would love a podcast on Hayden's process of video editing. Like what planning you do and choosing how to edit this video, this would be cool.
This is super cool, never really understood or gave much thought to the business side of editing on either film/online content. You guys are saving some people from getting swindled, I'm sure of it!
I'm an amateur editor and the work experience I had was very similar to the reddit post you shared. I used to edit exclusively for a youtube content creator as the main part of my job and I loved editing their content. I was pretty gutted when the person who had hired me suddenly came out and told me that he couldn't afford to pay me anymore and I was given 3 weeks notice after having worked for his business for 2 years. I'm glad that I came across this podcast because I love being an editor and being able to listen to other editor's experiences has been pretty enlightening.
Such great content! I'm not even close to being able to hire an editor but proper pay has been a major concern, the valuing advice helps put me at ease haha
I love how well you guys explain everything so well that almost everyone would be able to understand it.
as a creator these podcasts are really helpful to see things from the editor perspective
such an important topic to discuss publicly. thanks for sharing this with all of us RUclips editors!
just got the notification and I already know it's gonna be a great podcast!
The editor to the video is as the salesman to the compony, there for, editors should get commotion form the videos revenue. no salesman = no compony, no editor = no video. Great podcast, looking forward for the next episode
What a great comparison!
* company
Y’all are the best! Love that this now exists. Balance the mics tho, maybe eq adjustments.. Thanks guys, you rock!
Thanks so much. This was so interesting and important for people to know. The reality is that most of us on YT just don’t have the revenues to hire a professional editor at realistic rates. I would love to have an editor. However, I know that it isn’t possible at the moment. Even with 100k subscribers and around 30-40k views per video, I would be seriously out of pocket if I wanted to hire a good editor.
I've loved your content every since I saw your coverage of Quebec's separatism!
The recent Quebec elections highlighted a strong, pragmatic nationalism, as the cannibalizing cost of the separatist movement' structure, and the traditional Liberal federalist party.
Your expertise and content is such a unique, interesting niche!
Holy moly, thank you for this weekly gift! So many golden nuggets:
1. The quality of your job offering is correlate to the quality of talent that you'll attract (fair wages $3,783 a week for 5 days a week, work-life balance, great equipment).
2. Start studying traditional media (cinema + movies) to learn the best practices that can apply to the Wild West that is RUclips.
3. The biggest mistake creators can make is assuming that the editor knows what going on in their head. The relationship between the Director (creator) and the Editor is crucial. It is the directors responsibility to communicate what they want, the editor isn't a mind reader.
4. Choose your trade-off. Either spend more time on pre-production so the story is established, or give more time (instead of setting unrealistic deadlines) to post-production. You can't have your cake and eat it too, it'll just be a nasty cake.
I'm really glad this was on my recommended, very cool!
I have just stumbled on this channel! Only 10 mins in & love it! 👌🏼
Hey guys. Thanks for giving from your time to record this conversation. One of the side effects of RUclips and generally web editing is that nowadays After Effects or similar 2D softwares became part of the requirements for an editor to be hired. In TV and cinema - if someone asks me for that kind of work I would point him to the VFX team or to hire a VFX artist. Those rules still apply in productions above certain budget threshold.
I would love an episode based on lost projects/failing harddrives, and how you’ve dealt with it if you ever had.
I recently lost a project I had spent 40hrs on that was only halfway finished due to my computer just crashing and wiping everything I had on it when I accidentally pressed “restart” instead of “shut down”
And no, I definitely did not press “reset”
3 is 2, 2 is 1, 1 is none. In other words, if you only have one copy of your working files, you may as well have none, because at some point things are gonna go sideways and you don't get to choose when that time will be.
Always have at least one backup of your footage, set project backups/autosaves and manually back up your project file/timeline at lunchtime and then again at the end of the day, preferably to the cloud or a separate drive/computer. Have AT LEAST one backup copy of all of your raw footage, with preferably one offsite (in case of fire/flood/meteor strike etc).
If you're working for paying customers, there is absolutely no excuse for losing a project. There are simple ways to protect yourself.
Dudes, i literally sit and watch whole of this podcast. Great job, waiting for new ones
Great points! Style guides are such a key thing for us editors!
Only 8 minutes in and I’ve already learned a lot. Great job guys!
The importance of that editor/director relationship or style guide is so necessary. I used to work as a freelance scenic fabricator building sets and some clients I’ve worked with would hand over a pretty picture without any details like crucial dimension information and it often fell on us to also design the thing that we were just being paid to build, which was incredibly frustrating. At the end of the day, I didn’t care what the project looked like bc it really wasn’t my design. I cared that I built it to their exact specifications bc they were in charge.
This is a great video for all creative freelancers! As a voiceover talent, the same exact things apply to VO on RUclips. Small channels want to hire pro voice actors to do a lot of work for little to no money. I regularly voice a number of YT channels BUT they are large companies who use YT as a marketing outlet as opposed to Creator channels who want to use YT as an income source. Knowing this difference helps you as the freelancer target the specific type of client who understands your value.
I think a big part of the issue here in comparing Hollywood Vs the “wild west” that is RUclips is that most “RUclipsrs” can’t really afford editors and would be in the negative if they paid editors Hollywood rates. RUclips takes 50% of the earnings. Quality takes a backseat to subject & quantity because everything is disposable. You watch it once generally and are forever done with it. TikTok is setting the industry standards and the standard is shot on the phone, shoddy key out, quick laughs, shock value or controversy and onto the next thing. That’s not a space for feature film story editors.
RUclips is not really a safe space in terms of career. The rules are constantly changing and when things go wrong, no matter what level you’re at, you’re told to suck it up and keep it moving, even if you’re playing by whatever the rules are that day. I know someone who just the other day lost a full day of monetization for no reason at all. RUclips systems just goofed. No compensation for all the lost earnings for that day. Just gotta keep it moving. And that’s just THAT angle of things, setting aside the social hostility of comments and isolation from perpetual work.
In that kind of space where creators are expected to just deal and constantly pump out to keep up, I think the best thing an editor can do that’s interested in RUclips is strike a deal for percentage or a small percentage on top of the wages offered. RUclips is not going to fix this. And the competition in this space is only growing.
This podcast has so much information. keep up the good work guys. I am enjoying it immensely. I think you're the best.
AMAZING CONTENT as always fellas!
What Jordan said was so true, it's all about pre-production.
If you think about another area of traditional media: sports editors. Once the game is finished they MUST have the full highlights completely ready after one ad break. To even begin discussing how much planning has to go into this, to make the editors job easy as they edit during a game... it's insane. Then furthermore, sports editors charge ridiculously high rates per game.
E.g. I knew one guy who charged 22k (AU) per game because no one else in the city knew how to do what he did.
Such fascinating conversations that I have with other creative / editor friends, thanks for sharing!
I have an idea for a video, maybe discuss what it is an editor needs from the creator to make a great video?
Style guides, footage, pre production.
What’s the ideal client providing/doing?
Great Content. Thanks brother!
I edit my own videos and I couldn't see myself ever outsourcing this task...I feel it's so important in the creator process. It takes me longer but I love it there is always something new to learn.
Hi guys, big fan of your podcast!! I’m old, 50, I did my video career in the US and due to family issues I had to come back and live in Spain. I got back in the game of editing, now remotely, and I love it, but dynamics and rules, have definitely changed since the 90s.
I’m slowly catching up to your podcast, listening to all of them, and just listened to this one. I completely agree that each editor knows how much they’re worth, but HONESTY is something that plays into it and having those high dollar pays, like the one you mentioned for Netflix, may get some young kids to step into that blurry line of experience and honesty. If I were to get paid 3Gs per week, I’ll be sweating and questioning every single cut I make….yikessss!!! Anyhow, I love your content and I enjoy listening to your podcast weekly. Keep it up!!
Ty! This is amazing information Andy soo well delivered ❤
I never stick to listening podcasts but this one was just made for me, the only podcast i'll ever watch and listen to, start to finish. Great content guys!
I love how broad youtube scene is. In one extreme, you got LTT who can probably start cinema level production company with all the crazy stuff he has, and you got this guy where even a mouse is an uneccasry luxury
I'm planning on getting good at editing and editing my own videos for my yt, but this has taught me alot about what it's like to be an editor. It's honestly true that there are so many dog channels and creators that don't know what they're doing, and hiring editors that they don't deserve, and giving them the shittest work environment possible, and even then they won't grow
This is the absolute best video they made so far! I love the moving camera
Inspired by your stories and rooting for you both!
Also the presentation of the stir ad efforts came across as solid! Raza :)
As a freelance editor and RUclipsr, this podcast (and specifically this episode) is nothing short of a godsend
"if you undercharge yourself, you'll underperform yourself" I barely started watching the video and already received this wake-up call
Congratulations on 13kkk so excited.. I was 900th subscriber and seeing this grow makes me soooo excited
Hey, Rossy! Good to see you again. Thanks for being here from episode one. Hope you edit something great today! :)
@@EditingPodcast you bet I will.. I am just waiting on my salary for September to buy "Save the Cat" and "Art of cut".... Finessingggggggg
Damn, Tis is amazing. good insight! appreciate your time making this video!
this was a great episode guys. i could listen to you two talk for hours...
You guys are the best, keep up with the great content
I absolutely love content and the real conversations. RUclips is still such an uncharted territory. If you are good and you know how to sell yourself, then that's a magic pill
This was a really interesting conversation. Thank you to both of you.
Very interesting video! I love the insight between creators and editors and makes total sense to me. Do you guys work with any creator? I found really weird that creatives do not understand deadline pressures because we have deadlines that are super stressful as well!
I had a similar experience as that reddit user - but as a young screenwriter. The "producer" couldn't type and didn't like computers, so he hired me to come over and write while he stood behind me and explained what he was trying to convey. It lasted about an hour. 😂
Enjoyed the convo! Wild West is right. You can see why unions were formed for this profession, early on in Hollywood.
I love your freelancing or work progress content keep it up!
As an aspiring editor this is very interesting insight to hear. Thank you for putting out this content.
16:11 I just want to thank you for saying "a long ten minute video." When I tell people how much time it takes me to get a minute or two of video edited I feel like they think I must be an idiot. I edit my own videos (and I'm a nooby still learning) so I'm writer, director, producer, cameraman, sound and video editor and my own worse critic. But I'm really enjoying it.
Love this, I am Editor and Creator, I am guilty of passing the work to the editor part, and now I realise I need to be more pre production and planning, to my editing easier.
Editor-me regularly complains that Filming-me was a nepotism hire
@8:17, I would've left, I have left from jobs like this. And it also taught me the skill of explaining work boundaries, best practices, and managing expectations.
Really great episode!
Great talk! Thanks guys!
Love the content fellas! As a new creator I do everything myself for now which has made me really appreciate everything that goes into editing videos. My game plan is to get the videos up to a certain quality so that I can better communicate with an editor what I’m looking for which will help build the relationship on the right foot. Currently it can take me anywhere from 9-20 days to edit a single video and I do it full-time (8-16 hours a day) since I retired from my 9-5. I was a people manager at Citigroup for 10 years so you can expect to be treated with respect unlike that awful Reddit story 😂. I do hope as a content creator I can make enough sooner rather than later to have the business pay for that important team member.
If there are any editors that would like to start communicating with me while I am still a small channel that would be awesome. You can find the links to start the conversation with me under the ‘About’ tab on my YT Channel.
This podcast hands-down makes me a better editor! Thank you for another great episode
Very useful information within this. Good job guys