Honestly Im gonna give it to Tien because Krillin retired from training after the Cell Game Saga and Tien consistently kept training so yeah Tien takes it. As a person who trains people for a living, Im pretty sure they get stronger than the ones who decide to just stop altogether
KINGD353 Krillin grew out his hair and flat out stated that he retired from fighting and that's why he regrew his hair. Krillin training for a couple days with 18 because of the prize money doesn't imply that Krillins been training nonstop.
I think you guys just don't like krillin and he's not a pimp at all if anyone was a pimp it would have been yamcha he had a fan club of girls who thought he was cute and krillin really didn't do anything
Yeah you both can argue till the end of time about it. But Krillin is not stronger . I'm sorry he's just not. Krillin stopped training he didn't give a fuck. And the only reason Krillin was ever stronger was because Guru unlocked his potential. And the argument that " we don't see Tien much" is so fucking stupid. We don't really see the extent of krillins power either since he gets one shotted by every single villain and hero. Tien is the ONLY z fighter seem doing something useful fighting wise in the later arcs ( semi-perfect) cell.
Destructo Disk isn't a good example though as it's shown to be far more powerful than the user. Hence the reason why Nappa had to dodge it unlike every other attack sent his way. Honestly, the only manga argument is that Krillin had his "potential unlocked" by Guru. This either means he was given a massive power boost, or he was immediately brought to his limit and he'd never get any more powerful than that. If Toriyama didn't come out and say Krillin was the strongest, I would have no reason to believe he was.
Tien. As for Toriyama's statement, he says Krillin is the strongest because he's Goku's best friend and a major supporting character. He took no consideration into whether or not that made sense logically. In Akira's mind, krillin has to be the strongest human. He's Goku's best friend, he's gotta be. But the fact is, krillin has stopped training twice to the point where he was hurt by bullets in super. (I realize this video came out before super, but my point still stands) as for potential unlocked, that shouldn't matter much either. As stated in this very video, Tien technically did train on King Kai's planet. While we don't see him much in the manga(which is also a half baked argument in and of itself), we do see him standing and walking around, which means he had already adapted to the 10 times gravity. And as we see with goku, gravity training appears to be just as effective as potential unleashed in that Arc. Yes Goku is a Saiyan, but that's not the point. The point is he surpassed all the other active cast members in just a few days by training his endurance up to 100 times Earth's gravity. On top of that, as quaaman pointed out, all Tien ever does is train, and train, and train some more. This man has made it his life's goal to be the world's greatest martial artist. And he's Goku's third strongest rival. Hey, when you're up against Vegeta and piccolo, bronze medal ain't all that bad.
He reached his peak after Kaio's training and still was behind Krillin after Namek unlock. He only became above him again during some years after Cell's death, when, at some unknown moment, Krillin quit training and therefore lost some ki over some few years. But then he recovered his level in the Majin Boo's saga training with 18, and it was during this arc that it was mentioned that he is the strongest Earthling. By the way, humans never increased their level again after Frieza saga. After Kaio's training, Yamcha (who trained less months) reached a level probably a bit above Goku's level during his first fight against Vegeta, Chiaotzu reached a level a bit lower than that same Goku, and Tien was at the approximately level of Dodoria or even a bit more. On the other hand, after Guru's unlock, Krillin progressively increased his power until almost reach the level of Zaarbon (without his transformation)... With those levels that reached all them, training normally on Earth wasn't enough for becoming stronger, it was only good for mantain their level. They never did any lther special training lke going to the Time Chamber or some room with increased gravity... That means that during Majin Boo's saga, Tien's level was the same that he had right after Kaio's training.
@@superpaytonmars8852 he didn't do it. Neither the other 3 super strong humans, because the plot was like that. By that point, having a Tien with a ki of let say 20,000, or another one that broke all his possible limits during the next years and reached a ki of 40/50/60 thousands, it was the same for enemies like the androids. The same goes for Krillin, Chiaotzu and Yamcha... Therefore, Toriyama decided to detain their development as fighters.
This was a great vid but I gotta side with Krillin on this one. But hey Qaaman, could you do a video on why the Namekian(KamiColo before he split to become the gaurdian of earth) was exiled to earth?
Tien is and will always be the strongest earthling, and I cannot understand how can people think Krillin is stronger , and I dont care what Toriyama said , he’s contradicting himself because in the anime it’s shown time and time again that Tien is just superior in all aspects
The anime is not canon, the manga it is and it was stated during Majin Boo's saga that Krillin is the strongest Earthling. He became stronger than Tien since his power was unlocked in Namek. And if Toriyana's idea, of course that he will put it, after sll Dragon Ball it's his story.
Using the Shin Kikoho isn't really a good argument because the damage multiplier on that move is insane. Last calculated it enacts a power of around 10000-30000 greater than the user's power level, which is insane.
Well, if Toriyama says that Krillin is the strongest human prior to Uub, then that would make it so, considering he's the creator of Dragon Ball. He could say that a dog was the strongest being on earth and that would make it canon.
+Arnold Weathersby Akira never stated that Tien wasn't a human, even though he has a third eye, Krillin doesn't have a nose to that matter. And even Goku was considered a human until sayian saga. They all just had a mutations.
Tien for sure all the arguments from qaaman stay valid. So what if Akira Toriyama said krillin was the strongest in a interview, now days he is forgetting his own stuff and making no sence. Same could apply to that question he got from that interview.
Gianna Fontanez wtf how the hell does that prove shit goku and vegeta had lost their tail gene way before they were born so how could they get it dumbass
Gianna Fontanez or that launch existed. then he forgot he said THAT and said that she stopped showing up because viewers might confuse her for being a super saiyan.
Samrules888 SHE was not in dbz manga she was no longer seen after that all times she appeared in the original anime were filler yes he did not show her but does it affect the story no and tails seriously what would it do we never even have fights in dbz during the night or full moon after saiyan saga and only vegeta can make a blutz wave ball but there is no need to it with have super saiyans
2:17 Not entirely true. When Krillin was first shown in the Buu saga Gohan states he stopped shaving his head after the fighting stopped, not because he stopped training. No where in the manga does it state that Krillin stopped his training. 5:17 Problem here is, it's the Daizenshuu. This is the same Daizenshuu that had a few errors so why take points from it? I have no idea. If it's not in the manga or if Akira never mentions it then it doesn't hold much weight; even if we do use the Daizenshuu, it never really says from an alien race. It's said Tien is a descendant of the Three Eyed Clan people, and then you have other sources saying he achieved his third eye through meditation and enlightenment; this clan has never been depicted as being of another alien race and it's more likely just a rare trait in humans. So Akira's interview stating Krillin is the strongest Earthling still holds weight. Like the other guy said, all the Neo Tri-Beam do was push Cell back, nothing more. After Tien fainted Cell came back brushing Tien's attack off like it was nothing and was pissed because he was stopped by, how he put it, of all people, Tien. The Neo Tri-Beam is pretty much design to do what it did, and considering the fact that Tien literally used his life force for that attack. If using what Tien did to Cell means he's stronger than Krillin because Krillin didn't do anything to Cell, then does that mean Tien is more powerful than Piccolo? Piccolo was powerless against Cell's first form, a much weaker version of his semi form. Even 17 wasn't able to touch Cell in his first form, but Tien stopped Semi-Cell; surly you don't believe this. 13:40 And that would be a logical assumption since it seems out of Tien's character to quit training. But again, you're assuming Krillin stopped training after Cell with little to no evidence. We can say he stopped after he gained a family, but that's also under the assumption that he and 18 got together immediately after Cell which doesn't seem to work. She rejected him at first, and according to Akira in one of his latest interviews, "But I think that probably No. 18 (who used to be a delinquent) found Kuririn’s seriousness and straightforwardness refreshing, and somehow or other she ended up falling for him." www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/saikyo-jump-june-2014-issue-twel-buu-mysteries/ She fell for him afterwards and seeing how old his daughter is, it most likely took a while for them to end up in a relationship. Also, if she found his seriousness refreshing afterwards then he must have been training; if he suddenly gave up and did nothing, what would she find special about him? Of course, it's just an assumption, but wouldn't you agree that it makes sense though? So again, there aren't real hard evidence in the manga that proves Tien's superiority over Krillin whether it's the Cell saga or Buu.
I think Tien is stronger in all of Dragonball but the Namek Arc, after that he becomes stronger than Krillian. So I agree with Qaaman. BTW Qaaman, can you do a debate on more topics?
Tien > Krillen. Tien is older by a few years. Tein was much stronger than krillin during dragonball. After Dragonball Tien continued his training while krillin pulled a yajerobe (several, actually). Tien knows all of krillin's signature moves, Krillin does not know super dodon ray, Multiplication, or the TriBeam. Tien Generally has more fighting experience. Tien has the Jagan eye, and we all know what that means.
Hey Quaman. I appreciate all the educated dragonball z videos they've helped me understand a lot more. I check your channel and blackenfist everyday hope to see more coming soon!
Think of Akira Toriyama however you like, but fact of the matter is he has the memory of a jellyfish. He didn't even remember to portray Gohan as an SS2 in the fight against Dabura even though Goku said Dabura was as strong as Cell and later on said he was a little stronger. Tenshinhan was, is, and always shall be stronger than Krillin. After Tenshinhan completed his training on King Kai's planet, I wager he had already surpassed what Krillin got from his potential unleashed boost and if not then certainly during the 3 year training period afterwards.
I think you made better points on tien being stronger than krillin and in the dbz series it more supports krillin being weaker than tien. Hate to go against AT's words(although he has forgotten some things in dbz) in his latest interview he looked like he was mainly thinking of stuff on the spot. In the series it was simply like this... Sayain Saga:Tien>Krillin Namek Saga:Krillin>Tien Android/Cell Saga:Tien>Krillin Buu Saga:Tien>>>Krillin
Really the interview appened at the beginning of the buu saga, so AT was referring at that point in the story, Tenshinhan is 100% human, in real life many buddists monks believe that the 3rd eye can be acquired by intense meditation
no it was pretty clear krillin atleast up until cell saga was stronger i do agree tien in the end was the stronger of the two but tien's max potential in saiyan was only able to destroy nappa's armor while if krillin's destructo disc had actually direct hit nappa; nappa would be finished so yeah but buu saga i would say since krillin did not train the 7 year gap would have made him stronger how much is unknown but not like millions like his power lvl being like 20 mil and krill being like 10 no but stronger indeed
Dragonball: Tien > Krillin Saiyan Saga: Tien > Krillin. Krillin got 2 shotted, Tien got an arm chopped off and was stated by Nappa that he nearly killed him when Tri Beam was attempted. Namek Saga: Krillin > Tien. Obvious reasons, Krillin got a mad power boost. Tien vs Ginyu force is filler. Cell Saga: Tien > Krillin. Tien was stopping semi-perfect Cell. Krillin couldn't do jack shit. This isn't even debatable. Buu Saga: Tien > Krillin. Tien kept training, and Krillin stopped to enjoy a married life with 18. How can this even be debated? Tien deflected Buuhan's blast!!! (although it obviously wasn't meant for Ultimate Gohan) This thunder guy is an idiot no offense. "Tien wasn't injuring Semi-Perfect Cell" Yea, and he still PUSHED HIM BACK. If Semi Perfect Cell was "so strong" then he would have treated Tri beam like a back scratcher, ignored it, and go after 18. But nope, Tri Beam held him back, Cell even gets pissed that he's being held back. Destructo disk being ineffective against Perfect Cell is filler, Krillin never attempted it. Tri Beam has a wider range than Destructo Disk, Tri Beam > Destructo Disk. "Krillin never got his chance against Semi-Perfect Cell" Is that why he was punching him in the face, while Cell smiled and slapped him with his tail? Destructo Disk wouldn't have done jack, Cell would've either regenerated or dodged it effortlessly. Toriyama saying Krillin was the strongest human was done way too recently. Toriyama stopped giving a rat's ass about DBZ, Quaaman also brought up the fact that the Daizenshuu has been leading more that Tien isn't Human.
Namesarefull I understand, the thing is that Tri Beam displays more strength than Destructo disc. Destructo disc is almost like a knife. I'm assuming Krillin never tried it because of Cell's regeneration
a few points of my own that you will probably quickly disprove since i suck at debating >.> 1. krillin would have killed nappa had vegeta not warned him about the distructo disc while tien's tribeam did jack shit....... krillin's signiture move is superior 2. krillin's distructo disc wouldn't do anything to semi perfect cell? you have no proof of that dude... you just pulled it out of your ass as an assumption. he can regnerate? you're right he can but if the distructo dissc could cut semi perfect cell 18 would have been released since krillin would most likely go for the top of the tail and if krilling keeps using distructo discs cell would have to keep regenerating witch means just like tien krillin would be able to hold off semi perfect cell not to mention he would actually be doing damage since he's cutting off body parts! 3. krillin says he stopped training.... that was a lie...... it's actually shown at one point in the buu saga that 18 forces krillin to train with her after all it's safe to assume to get a bad ass like that you need to be pretty damn powerful yourself so yeah krillin still trained during buu saga welp that's all i got....... "waits to be owned"
KINGD353 1. I understand he could have potentially killed Nappa if Vegeta didn't yell at him. The thing is as I said earlier, Destructo disc is more like a knife, and doesn't necessarily display power. You could argue Destructo disc is a better technique overall, which it can be considering how it would have worked on Nappa. Tri Beam on the other hand uses the person's life force, Tri beam also has a wider attack range. As I mentioned earlier Tien would never stand there if he fought 1v1 with Krillin. Nappa made it clear Destructo disc is a joke to dodge, considering he just sat there and only moved his head. If Krillin attempts Destructo disc spam like he did on Frieza, then yea that would be more dangerous but not impossible to dodge. 2. There is enough evidence to suggest Destructo Disc wouldn't work on Cell. Warp Kamehameha blew off the top half of Cell's body, SSJ2 Gohan's Kamehameha blew off an arm and both legs, Final flash took out half of his torso. Almost every part of Cell's body had been blown up at some point before he died, a slice is ineffective against someone with regeneration, their entire body has to be eradicated. Cell even had his head blown off and he came back with ease. Krillin could have chopped his tail off to prevent 18 being absorbed, the only reason he probably didn't do this was fear of hitting 18. 3. He trained with 18 to prepare for the tournament to get back in shape, since after all it had been 7 years since they fought Cell, and Gohan especially got severely weak. It's very much possible Krillin still trained occasionally, but by growing his hair out, and not wearing his fighting uniform anymore suggests he stopped altogether. Yamcha is a good example, after Frieza he stopped wearing his fighting uniform except for when they looked for 19 and 20. Tien on the other hand kept being anti-social, and training peacefull with Chaotzu in the middle of nowhere.
Hey man, love your vids. Especially the ones about alternative timelines. If you haven't yet, could you do one going over everyone's power levels during DBZ? There are too many interpretations and your take on it would be nice. Thanks!
I already did a video on that but blackenfist will upload that to his channel, i cant upload videos more than 15 minutes because of youtubes dumb strike.
I like DBZ debates. If you love the series, and know a lot about it, it's really fun to either discuss them or to listen to other people about it. Wish I could join you guys
Hey big fan of your channel! This may be a somewhat big task. Even though you already have gave a timeline for all the DBZ movies. I would love for you to talk about all the DBZ movies and kinda rank them and say what you think the best/worst ones are.
Im not really the subjective type of guy but you should check out blackenfists video on the top 17 movies. he covers all of them and ranks each one. its one of his older videos.
Heyyy quuman I'm srry if I spelled that wrong hehe but anyways only if it's totally ok with you-could you make a segment on who's the strongest between super saiyan 3 goku or mystic gohan.
@ Qaamans Land could you do 1 of the 3 DBZ what ifs? if you haven't already. 1. what if there was a Future Goten? 2. what if Future Gohan defeated the androids? 3. what if Goku teach Future Trunks to use instant transmission (a.k.a teleport) and told him where Namek is?
Tien destroys Krillin. Tien was stronger than Krillin in Dragon Ball, during the Saiyan Saga, Krillin may have been stronger than Tien in the Namek and Frieza Saga but I think Tien would have caught up and probably got stronger than Krillin in the 3 year training to fight the androids, cause while Tien was training hard Krillin was relying on Master Roshi to help him train which wouldn't be hard for Krillin since he has done that style of training before. After they fought and lost to the androids Tien went off to pick up Chiaotzu and continue training, meanwhile Krillin just went off to help move Goku from his home to Master Roshi's and was there right up until after Piccolo fought Cell. Tien made his next appearance with Piccolo saving Krillin from Cell. After that Tien continued to train while Krillin was at Master Roshi's. So you can see a obvious pattern here, while Krillin sits around Tien is constantly training.
I strongly Agree with Qaaman. Plus, I would like to point out that after the buu saga, but not necessarily Dragon ball gt (since almost everyone doesn't count gt) all evil was erased from the universe. So, krillin and tien aged and krillin settled down and had his family: android 18 and maroon. However, tien never settled down and was always dedicated to training thus having an advantage over krillin. Now, if you want to include the GT series, it's stated and understood that despite his age, tien traveled the world and Still trained with chaiotsu. Probably because of his superhuman traits, he ages slower Than other humans like krillin. It was shown, but not clearly, that when the hole to hell was opened, tien was helping out probably defeating the villains or just maintaining the citizens. Also at the end of gt, it showed chiaotsu and tien meditating near a waterfall possibly showing that tien still trains. Krillin in gt is already an old person with a family and retired from fighting for he said to goku before he left with shenron, "I'm too old for This kind of stuff," which meant fighting. Go ahead and consider or disconsider DragonballGT, but I still strongly believe tien is powerful than krillin
I agree with Qaaman. Ultimately, Blackenfist citing Toriyama saying Krillin is the strongest human is a good point, but Qaaman's counter that Tien isn't human works. Toriyama said the HUMAN not earthling, which is the word he's used to describe all humanoid fighters originating from Earth save the Androids. Of course, you could also argue that Olibu is stronger than both of them. There's little to no way to compare the strengths of Krillin and Tien to Olibu, but that also means it's hard to prove they're stronger than him. I really enjoyed this debate and would like to see more like this in the future. Blackenfist definitely held his own and I agree that Krillin's destructo disc on Perfect Cell is no comparison to Tien's tri beam on Semi Perfect Cell, but Krillin attacking Semi Perfect Cell and doing zero damage or knockback is what seals the argument for me. Krillin's vision may have been compromised, but that has just about no effect on his power, which is what we're measuring. Tien may have caught Cell of guard with the FIRST tri beam, but all subsequent tri beams Cell was ready for and a few after the initial one still managed to knock Cell farther into the hole, and this was with him actively resisting Tien so he could absorb 18, and he was still completely held back. I still believe Tien is the strongest Earthling next to Uub and possibly Olibu; great job to both of you on this video, and the moderator too.
I think Krillin can be the strongest with Tien still winning the fight.. Even if tien is slightly weaker than Krillin, his Tri-Beam would still be more powerful as it's different than normal ki attacks.. He was holding back 2nd form cell with it ffs, would melt krillin. The destructo disc is also easier to dodge when on guard than the tri-beam.
It's the other way, the kienzan is much more effective than the shin kikoho. You have to be caught off of guard to be hit by the shin kikoho, and he becomes weaker every time he throw one (with about 7 being his limit), while Krillin can throw the kienzan a lot of times.
I think krillen is stronger because in the Saiyan Saga Tian didnt do ANYTHING to Nappa with his Tri-Beam while Krillen's Destructo Disk actually gave Nappa a cut on the Cheek...hell even Vegeta told Nappa to move which shows that the attack was stronger AND they both did the same training during the 1 year between the Saiyan Arrival
A suggestion I have is Chilled vs Frieza. Is Frieza stronger than Chill? Another one I have is Brief-Breigh (Vegeta's last name) vs Son Family (Goku's last name). This would be an interesting par up. The wifes -Bulma vs ChiChi. Husbands -Goku vs Vegeta. Son (first generation) Future Trunks vs Gohan. And Sons (second generation) -Trunks vs Goten (as teens).
I would like to make a point that was not mentioned in the video about the argument used supporting Tien with his use of the Tri Beam Cannon against Cell. You forgot about the fact that the Tri Beam Cannon is an extremely powerful attack. In terms of relativity, it is a technique which has actually been stated to be much more powerful than the Kamehameha. The technique taps beyond one's Ki and uses one's life force to make it that much more powerful. In terms of it's usage it did hold Cell down but that was it, until he couldn't fire anymore that was all he could do with it.
Qaaman, I'm with you on this one, and consider this, an ultimate kikoho; remember the extra arms Tein used in his first fight with Goku? A kikoho projected through a kikoho, no kienezan can beat that.
Excuse me if anyone has brought this up already, but in defense of Tien being stronger than Krillin think back to the Cell games. When the Z fighters were fighting the Cell Jr.'s, Krillin was getting mauled while Tien was at least holding his own. Now I'm not sure how much of that was filler (after watching Qaaman and Blackenfist's videos I'm doubting alot of what I know about dragonball) but that does show that Tien did have a good advantage as far as strength was concerned. Now this is also taking into account that Krillin is a coward and was more scared than willing to fight but even still he couldn't even touch the Cell Jr. that he was fighting. But that's just my 2 cents on the matter. Wonderful debate and I hope for more of these in the future.
+Qaaman's Land: What would have happened in DBZ had Krillin, Gohan, and Bulma been killed on fake namek and had their ship taken by the two aliens to Namek? Those three characters turn out to have a huge impact on DBZ and GT. Krillin's death was intrumental in Goku becoming SSJ. Gohan defeats Cell and bulma has to have trunks for anyone to be warned of the Androids. seems like that one plot stream could have unhinged the entire series.
Qaamans Land You forgot to mention during the Cell Games that prior to receiving a Senzu Bean, Tien could still sand up, whereas Krillin was practically unconscious. Honestly I think that in this debate, without any prior knowledge of DBZ, I would say I buy into Qaaman's Argument over Blackenfist's. However, after factoring in all I know about DBZ, I would have to say it really is 50/50. My eyes tell me that Tien has more brute strength but Krillin has more speed in battle. Tien fights with more confidence and has more effective techniques, but Krillin always seems to hang around in fights. The tiebreaker for me is the fight with Nappa. Tien got kicked to the curb and couldn't land a single shot. His energy blast took all of his energy and killed him, and Nappa remained largely unaffected. Krillin got in a few quick blows, evaded Nappa's grasp, and would've cut Nappa in half if his Destructo Disk had hit him. The disk drained nowhere near as much of his energy. If you look at power levels from the Daizenshuu guide, during the Arrival of Raditz, Tien is at 250 while Krillin is at 206. During the battle with the Saiyans, Tien is at 1,830 while Krillin is at 1,770. The evidence suggests Tien is stronger than Krillin. That's my take on it lol.
I've wondered about this for some time. I'm going to give the argument to Thundershot69. Qaamans Land had a more solid argument, but if you go onto dragon ball dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Tien_Shinhan he is listed as a human. If the writer says that one is the strongest, then they are the strongest.
Qaamans Land I'm Sorry, Blackenfist argued for Krillin. DBZ is a very difficult show to compare stats and power levels with other characters. Unless if the author tells you or a character fights each other, I don't think that its possible to truly compare fighters.
The Tri-Beam draws on the user's life force and shortens their life. We know this because it's made clear during the World Tournament in Dragon Ball. So, while it's true that Tien could push Cell back, you forget that in doing so, Tien nearly died. As soon as Tien stopped attacking Cell, he was quite clearly fine, if not a little pissed off. Remember that Piccolo was easily disposed of by Imperfect Cell on their second encounter, and all of his attacks were completely useless. Keep in mind that at that point, Piccolo was the strongest Z-Fighter. I disregard Tien vs. Cell in a strength debate because Tien was making a sacrifice play, he was using his vital life force. Much like when Majin Vegeta sacrificed himself against Buu. Neither character had any intention of surviving the encounter.
if your going to say that you read in several sources that tien isn't human then the debate is officially over because this debate was about if krillin and tien is the strongest "human" which means yes krillin is the strongest human and tien would then be the wweakest non human
I dunno it seemed like Akira Toryiama contradicted himself a little because he vocalized that Krillin is the strongest, yet in the Manga and Anime and keep in mind the Manga is more canon than anything else, Tien did hold down Cell with that Tribeam. So with that in mind it really makes it hard for me to decide who is strongest between the two.
Could you do a video on the possibility of meta cooler becoming the strongest being in the universe under the power of the BGS. Think about it, the star heals any injury and then prevents it from happening again so does that mean that bills or god goku couldn't kill meta cooler.
Tien - Hold Cell down for about 4 min after he owned Piccolo and absorbed #17 Krillin - Punches Cell in the face 20-25 times and angry meaning his power would possibly have to be higher than normal. Apparently Tien is weaker than Krillin...
This makes me think.. did Tien possibly go in the time chamber? Why would the tri-beam cannon push semi-perfect cell back when just before, he got godstomped by Android 17 at like 1% of his power?
aww man :( am looking forward to "Why is Goku stronger than Vegeta?" but we all know the real answer is that Toriama (don't ask can't spell) just plain hates Vegeta so he made him weak :/
He is human. The third eye is just meant to be a reference to the Chinese idea of opening your third eye. There's not really any logistical basis behind that design choice. He is human, and he's honestly not the weirdest creature on dragon ball's earth. That's like saying krillin isn't human because he doesn't have a nose.
I would like to say that both Tien and Chiaotzu are human, and that this is briefly talked about in Dragon Ball. I appreciate that Qaaman said that the sources were semi-official, because that's honestly bull. The third eye is a result of training, and Chiaotzu is just a psychic with pale skin.
Both Quaaman and Blackenfist forgot a major point. When somebody does the tribeam, I believe the beam is 10x stronger than its user. Krillin has no technique like that. That is why tien held his own against Cell and krillin could not.
I'd also like to add that the Tri-Beam /greatly/ exaggerates one's own power by using their life force. There's no way Tien would have been able to do a thing with any other generic ki attack, even if he put all of his regular energy into it. Piccolo's Light Grenade doing absolutely nothing to Imperfect Cell drives that home. Unless you think Tien's more powerful than him without the Tri-Beam? They could definitely kill each other with their signature moves, but both of them rely on some inherent advantage to the move rather than solely relying on one's power level or strength.
Suggestions: What if vegito never defused? Can goku with god zenkai boost take on buu saga vegeta SSJ god vs SSJ 4 (i think ssj 4) If goku wasn't sent to earth If Goku didn't bump his head (for the two above: effects on dbz, not db) If Gohan lost to super perf cell (did u do that already?)
Keep in mind,it almost killed Tien to even push Cell,it'd be easier to gauge power if Krillin did a Tri-beam on 2nd form Cell as well.I'd go with Blakenfist because of what Toriyama stated,but if Tien isn't human,then that'd surely leave it more open for debate.
You forgot--Tien deflected a ki blast from Super Buu, which I think is worth something. Also FWIW in the Japan only SNES game, Dragon Ball Z: Super Saiya Densetsu, Tien's power level is always higher than Krillin's throughout the entire game--and you can keep all the Z Fighters alive past the fight with Nappa. It also show how much the Guru unlock is worth in power level, and its not THAT much. Tien and every surviving mber can get it also. Tien is always stronger.
Qaaman's arguments are much stronger than blackenfist's especially concerning Tien's attack on Semi-perfect Cell although blackenfist has some valid points... overall good debate. I would like to add that another argument for tien being stronger than Krillin is the the fact that when the z fighter are attacking cell from behind during the Kamehameha clash between gohan & cell, Cell delivers a final power up that throws off all the z fighters in order: yamcha, then Krillin then Tien then Picollo obviously in order of power levels Tien > krillin
Energy attacks isn't a great example of a show of power. They can be inflated in power by certain conditions, Tri-Beam canon for example uses Tien's life-energy which greatly inflates his ki pool but like it shows makes the user pass out if used too often in succession. I'm firmly on the Krillin train for strongest Earthling other than Uub
I don't want to give you a dislike, because I do like this video, but I have to say in my personal opinion Krillin is stronger. I'm no expert though. How do you think Master Roshi or Gohan in their prime would have fared against threats like the Vegeta and Nappa, or even Cell? I think it's safe to say they wouldn't stand much of a chance against Buu since even Kais had a difficult time fighting him. Also, do you think it would have been better for Roshi to have fought alongside the Z Fighters? Also, why does Chi Chi give up on fighting? I can't seem to remember an explanation or find a clip of it. I haven't seen all of Dragon Ball so maybe the answer is there, but it seems like she could have kept training like Krillin and Tien or anyone else.
We will never know if Tien had any hidden potential. Let's assume that Krillin had Vegeta's powerlevel when Vegeta arrived on earth with Nappa, but it was merely not yet unlocked. Once Krillin gets to Namek, he has around the same PL he did on earth which was around 1.5 thousand. So, Krillin was walking around with Vegeta type strength all this time but never knew it while everyone else needed training, even Goku, and Vegeta was special. Way back in Dragonball, Master Roshi comments that the one the improved the most was Krillin. The thing with Krillin is that he's special but his lack of self esteem brings down his potential.
I choose Krillin since he married a hottie :P . Also, destructo disk is a concentrated ki, tri beam is a spread ki blast so both of your argument of that part is invalid . We also cannot assume that krillin didnt train on later parts of the series, the same concept could also be applied to tien (that he trains) . It could be that he is nearby the area when majin buu is fighting gohan and he felt the urge to help gohan . Krillin would have done the same thing . Just saying, dont hate me D:
i would say 18 is the strongest human ..-_- gonna provide any evidence that Tien or Krillin was stronger than her by the time Buu saga came around?..cuz thats quite a power gap to fill
Is receiving a zenkai boost more efficient than training in the hyperbolic time chamber in becoming stronger? Vegeta told Krillin to blast through his chest so he could become stronger after Dende heals him. Then Vegeta was able to atleast move Frieza around, where before he was struggling against Frieza's first form. I imagine that it would only take about 5 minutes to get blasted through your chest and then get healed by Dende. Trunks was able to kill King Cold and Mecha Frieza so easy. But then he got destroyed by android 17. After he went into the hyperbolic time he became much stronger than 18, who is about as strong as 17. But it took 1 day to achieve that.
Hey guys I chose Tien, or, Tenshinhan. It may appear as a dislike, for, Krillin, or, Kuririn.( I used to think it was Kuririn, but now I choose Tenshinhan.
guys, look at it like this: when super perfect cell & gohan ssj2 were in the kamehameha battle and then you seen krillin yamcha tien & piccolo go and try to attack cell, at the very end right before vegeta ultimately blasts cell and gives gohan the edge (i know this is different in the manga) but when cell finally blasted away those 4 guys: look at the ORDER of which they flew away! it went yamcha, then krillin, THEN tien, and THEN piccolo. in my opinion that was clear distinction on who was stronger because of how long they were able to last before cell blew them all away. yamcha is obviously the weakest, but then krillin went, then tien and then piccolo (we all know piccolo was the strongest out of them) but Tien is easily stronger than krillin IMO. i really don't think it's close either - now you have to take into account yes, tien most likely isn't a human, so krillin WOULD indeed be the strongest human if you don't consider tien a human (although I think he was just a mutation of some sort, basically not pure bread human though) and you have to remember, after cell krillin stopped training..tien continued to train. i really don't think it's close, and use that reference i said of how they blew away against cell. yamcha, then krillin, THEN tien, then piccolo. i think that's clear right there about who was stronger at that time and then you can only assume that since tien always trained and krillin STOPPED training then, tien is easily stronger, and i don't even think it's CLOSE.
Technically, if Krillin had been bombarding Cell with Destructo Discs, it would have done much more damage and bought 18 and 16 more time because it would have sliced Cell in half. And since the Tri-Beam, Tien's Go-To Attack, is weaker than the Destructo Disc, Krillin's Go-To attack, it would give Krillin some more points.
I read the interveiw where Akira Toryama officially said "Krillen is stronger." MY opinion however, based off of many of the claims made in this video, and just what I have seen in teh anime overall is that Tien is stronger, UNLESS you dont consider Tien a human.
This argument kind of falls apart when you know that the ki-ko-ho is stronger than the kienzan when used by equal fighters. In a one on one fight whit standard tournament rules I think that krillin would win because he has more medium strength options.
Can't speak for the manga, but in the anime, Tien was the more powerful. You can argue he always had to go straight for the big gun, the Tri-Beam Cannon, but you could argue that Krillin's trump card, the Destructo-Disc, was usually ineffective.
Honestly Im gonna give it to Tien because Krillin retired from training after the Cell Game Saga and Tien consistently kept training so yeah Tien takes it. As a person who trains people for a living, Im pretty sure they get stronger than the ones who decide to just stop altogether
krillin does still train it's showed in the show that 18 forces him to train so he does train he just doesn't train as much as he use to
KINGD353 Krillin grew out his hair and flat out stated that he retired from fighting and that's why he regrew his hair. Krillin training for a couple days with 18 because of the prize money doesn't imply that Krillins been training nonstop.
You're both wrong.the strongest human is:Mr.Satan.He defeated Cell and Kid Buu!
your totally. RIGHT!
Lol👍😝😂
no no no its its its.......CAILLOU!!!!!!
***** LOL YOU EXPLAINED IT ALL TOO WELL
That's fake it was gohan and goku
Can we all agree that Krillin is the biggest pimp in Dragon Ball history?
NO! MASTER ROSHI! HE'S THE TRUE BALD HEADED PIMP! HE HAD MARRON, ANDROID 18, BULMA AND CHI CHI OVER THE YEARS! lmao im kidding
Roshi is the Master Perv/Molester, Krillin is the Master Pimp
Yeah
yay
I think you guys just don't like krillin and he's not a pimp at all if anyone was a pimp it would have been yamcha he had a fan club of girls who thought he was cute and krillin really didn't do anything
Yeah you both can argue till the end of time about it. But Krillin is not stronger . I'm sorry he's just not. Krillin stopped training he didn't give a fuck. And the only reason Krillin was ever stronger was because Guru unlocked his potential. And the argument that " we don't see Tien much" is so fucking stupid. We don't really see the extent of krillins power either since he gets one shotted by every single villain and hero. Tien is the ONLY z fighter seem doing something useful fighting wise in the later arcs ( semi-perfect) cell.
Destructo Disk isn't a good example though as it's shown to be far more powerful than the user. Hence the reason why Nappa had to dodge it unlike every other attack sent his way.
Honestly, the only manga argument is that Krillin had his "potential unlocked" by Guru. This either means he was given a massive power boost, or he was immediately brought to his limit and he'd never get any more powerful than that.
If Toriyama didn't come out and say Krillin was the strongest, I would have no reason to believe he was.
Shin Kikoho is the same thing. It's multiplier on the user's power is probably the greatest of any ki move.
+UNDR And to be fair, Toriyama forgets half of his own content and is hilariously inconsistent.
Tien.
As for Toriyama's statement, he says Krillin is the strongest because he's Goku's best friend and a major supporting character. He took no consideration into whether or not that made sense logically. In Akira's mind, krillin has to be the strongest human. He's Goku's best friend, he's gotta be. But the fact is, krillin has stopped training twice to the point where he was hurt by bullets in super. (I realize this video came out before super, but my point still stands) as for potential unlocked, that shouldn't matter much either. As stated in this very video, Tien technically did train on King Kai's planet. While we don't see him much in the manga(which is also a half baked argument in and of itself), we do see him standing and walking around, which means he had already adapted to the 10 times gravity. And as we see with goku, gravity training appears to be just as effective as potential unleashed in that Arc. Yes Goku is a Saiyan, but that's not the point. The point is he surpassed all the other active cast members in just a few days by training his endurance up to 100 times Earth's gravity. On top of that, as quaaman pointed out, all Tien ever does is train, and train, and train some more. This man has made it his life's goal to be the world's greatest martial artist. And he's Goku's third strongest rival. Hey, when you're up against Vegeta and piccolo, bronze medal ain't all that bad.
He reached his peak after Kaio's training and still was behind Krillin after Namek unlock.
He only became above him again during some years after Cell's death, when, at some unknown moment, Krillin quit training and therefore lost some ki over some few years.
But then he recovered his level in the Majin Boo's saga training with 18, and it was during this arc that it was mentioned that he is the strongest Earthling.
By the way, humans never increased their level again after Frieza saga. After Kaio's training, Yamcha (who trained less months) reached a level probably a bit above Goku's level during his first fight against Vegeta, Chiaotzu reached a level a bit lower than that same Goku, and Tien was at the approximately level of Dodoria or even a bit more. On the other hand, after Guru's unlock, Krillin progressively increased his power until almost reach the level of Zaarbon (without his transformation)...
With those levels that reached all them, training normally on Earth wasn't enough for becoming stronger, it was only good for mantain their level. They never did any lther special training lke going to the Time Chamber or some room with increased gravity...
That means that during Majin Boo's saga, Tien's level was the same that he had right after Kaio's training.
@@soydelrojo9346 I'm pretty sure Tien is the kind of guy who wouldn't be satisfied until he found some way of breaking his limits further.
@@superpaytonmars8852 he didn't do it. Neither the other 3 super strong humans, because the plot was like that. By that point, having a Tien with a ki of let say 20,000, or another one that broke all his possible limits during the next years and reached a ki of 40/50/60 thousands, it was the same for enemies like the androids. The same goes for Krillin, Chiaotzu and Yamcha...
Therefore, Toriyama decided to detain their development as fighters.
@rojo9346 Or Toriyama just decided that it was impossible to keep up with Piccolo and the Saiyans. Either way, it's kinda stupid.
Everybody know mr satan is the strongest human.he defeated cell!
And majin buu
DJ LayLow lol what if mr satan kill the z fighters
This was a great vid but I gotta side with Krillin on this one. But hey Qaaman, could you do a video on why the Namekian(KamiColo before he split to become the gaurdian of earth) was exiled to earth?
Like if you think tien is stronger
Tien is and will always be the strongest earthling, and I cannot understand how can people think Krillin is stronger , and I dont care what Toriyama said , he’s contradicting himself because in the anime it’s shown time and time again that Tien is just superior in all aspects
W take and W pfp
The anime is not canon, the manga it is and it was stated during Majin Boo's saga that Krillin is the strongest Earthling. He became stronger than Tien since his power was unlocked in Namek.
And if Toriyana's idea, of course that he will put it, after sll Dragon Ball it's his story.
Cap
@@soydelrojo9346W
Using the Shin Kikoho isn't really a good argument because the damage multiplier on that move is insane. Last calculated it enacts a power of around 10000-30000 greater than the user's power level, which is insane.
Well, if Toriyama says that Krillin is the strongest human prior to Uub, then that would make it so, considering he's the creator of Dragon Ball. He could say that a dog was the strongest being on earth and that would make it canon.
+Arnold Weathersby Akira never stated that Tien wasn't a human, even though he has a third eye, Krillin doesn't have a nose to that matter. And even Goku was considered a human until sayian saga. They all just had a mutations.
***** It's not a contradiction. It is a retcon. A retcon is a change in previous established facts. DC Comics do this a lot.
Tien for sure all the arguments from qaaman stay valid. So what if Akira Toriyama said krillin was the strongest in a interview, now days he is forgetting his own stuff and making no sence. Same could apply to that question he got from that interview.
Yeh he has been forgetting things like when he forget Goten and Trunks tails
Gianna Fontanez
wtf how the hell does that prove shit goku and vegeta had lost their tail gene way before they were born so how could they get it dumbass
no we are not going into that argument if you do gtfo man we don't want Toriyama haters here
Gianna Fontanez
or that launch existed. then he forgot he said THAT and said that she stopped showing up because viewers might confuse her for being a super saiyan.
Samrules888
SHE was not in dbz manga she was no longer seen after that all times she appeared in the original anime were filler yes he did not show her but does it affect the story no and tails seriously what would it do we never even have fights in dbz during the night or full moon after saiyan saga and only vegeta can make a blutz wave ball but there is no need to it with have super saiyans
2:17
Not entirely true. When Krillin was first shown in the Buu saga Gohan states he stopped shaving his head after the fighting stopped, not because he stopped training. No where in the manga does it state that Krillin stopped his training.
5:17
Problem here is, it's the Daizenshuu. This is the same Daizenshuu that had a few errors so why take points from it? I have no idea. If it's not in the manga or if Akira never mentions it then it doesn't hold much weight; even if we do use the Daizenshuu, it never really says from an alien race. It's said Tien is a descendant of the Three Eyed Clan people, and then you have other sources saying he achieved his third eye through meditation and enlightenment; this clan has never been depicted as being of another alien race and it's more likely just a rare trait in humans. So Akira's interview stating Krillin is the strongest Earthling still holds weight.
Like the other guy said, all the Neo Tri-Beam do was push Cell back, nothing more. After Tien fainted Cell came back brushing Tien's attack off like it was nothing and was pissed because he was stopped by, how he put it, of all people, Tien. The Neo Tri-Beam is pretty much design to do what it did, and considering the fact that Tien literally used his life force for that attack. If using what Tien did to Cell means he's stronger than Krillin because Krillin didn't do anything to Cell, then does that mean Tien is more powerful than Piccolo? Piccolo was powerless against Cell's first form, a much weaker version of his semi form. Even 17 wasn't able to touch Cell in his first form, but Tien stopped Semi-Cell; surly you don't believe this.
13:40
And that would be a logical assumption since it seems out of Tien's character to quit training. But again, you're assuming Krillin stopped training after Cell with little to no evidence. We can say he stopped after he gained a family, but that's also under the assumption that he and 18 got together immediately after Cell which doesn't seem to work. She rejected him at first, and according to Akira in one of his latest interviews, "But I think that probably No. 18 (who used to be a delinquent) found Kuririn’s seriousness and straightforwardness refreshing, and somehow or other she ended up falling for him."
www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/saikyo-jump-june-2014-issue-twel-buu-mysteries/
She fell for him afterwards and seeing how old his daughter is, it most likely took a while for them to end up in a relationship. Also, if she found his seriousness refreshing afterwards then he must have been training; if he suddenly gave up and did nothing, what would she find special about him? Of course, it's just an assumption, but wouldn't you agree that it makes sense though?
So again, there aren't real hard evidence in the manga that proves Tien's superiority over Krillin whether it's the Cell saga or Buu.
I think Tien is stronger in all of Dragonball but the Namek Arc, after that he becomes stronger than Krillian. So I agree with Qaaman. BTW Qaaman, can you do a debate on more topics?
Roka please pm me.
Qaamans Land
I sent you a pm, please check your inbox.
Qaamans Land
So are you going to check your inbox? I already sent you a pm?
Tien > Krillen.
Tien is older by a few years.
Tein was much stronger than krillin during dragonball.
After Dragonball Tien continued his training while krillin pulled a yajerobe (several, actually).
Tien knows all of krillin's signature moves, Krillin does not know super dodon ray, Multiplication, or the TriBeam.
Tien Generally has more fighting experience.
Tien has the Jagan eye, and we all know what that means.
I thought Krillen knew the MultiForm, I seem to recall both Piccolo and Krillen using it against Nappa. I might be wrong though.
Krillin and piccolo did use multi form against nappa but that was filler if I'm not mistaken.
judeskater93 Ahh, my bad. Thanks for the info.
Krillen has more fighting experience because he was there in every saga tien was not on planet namek
Chance Knight Tien was presumably training with King Kai during that so he wasn't slacking off.
Great debate. I hope to see a lot more of these
Hey Quaman. I appreciate all the educated dragonball z videos they've helped me understand a lot more. I check your channel and blackenfist everyday hope to see more coming soon!
Loved this, guys! Can't wait to see more. Something about Broly's strength would be good. Slug as well.
Think of Akira Toriyama however you like, but fact of the matter is he has the memory of a jellyfish. He didn't even remember to portray Gohan as an SS2 in the fight against Dabura even though Goku said Dabura was as strong as Cell and later on said he was a little stronger.
Tenshinhan was, is, and always shall be stronger than Krillin. After Tenshinhan completed his training on King Kai's planet, I wager he had already surpassed what Krillin got from his potential unleashed boost and if not then certainly during the 3 year training period afterwards.
I think you made better points on tien being stronger than krillin and in the dbz series it more supports krillin being weaker than tien. Hate to go against AT's words(although he has forgotten some things in dbz) in his latest interview he looked like he was mainly thinking of stuff on the spot.
In the series it was simply like this...
Sayain Saga:Tien>Krillin
Namek Saga:Krillin>Tien
Android/Cell Saga:Tien>Krillin
Buu Saga:Tien>>>Krillin
Really the interview appened at the beginning of the buu saga, so AT was referring at that point in the story, Tenshinhan is 100% human, in real life many buddists monks believe that the 3rd eye can be acquired by intense meditation
no it was pretty clear krillin atleast up until cell saga was stronger i do agree tien in the end was the stronger of the two but tien's max potential in saiyan was only able to destroy nappa's armor while if krillin's destructo disc had actually direct hit nappa; nappa would be finished so yeah but buu saga i would say since krillin did not train the 7 year gap would have made him stronger how much is unknown but not like millions like his power lvl being like 20 mil and krill being like 10 no but stronger indeed
none of the earthlings exept uub were ever stronger than frieza except maybe tien
thebloxxyhenry at the end of Dragon Ball Z Krillin could the beat freezer but he had to struggle a lot with it
***** You said it were
Dragonball: Tien > Krillin
Saiyan Saga: Tien > Krillin. Krillin got 2 shotted, Tien got an arm chopped off and was stated by Nappa that he nearly killed him when Tri Beam was attempted.
Namek Saga: Krillin > Tien. Obvious reasons, Krillin got a mad power boost. Tien vs Ginyu force is filler.
Cell Saga: Tien > Krillin. Tien was stopping semi-perfect Cell. Krillin couldn't do jack shit. This isn't even debatable.
Buu Saga: Tien > Krillin. Tien kept training, and Krillin stopped to enjoy a married life with 18. How can this even be debated? Tien deflected Buuhan's blast!!! (although it obviously wasn't meant for Ultimate Gohan)
This thunder guy is an idiot no offense.
"Tien wasn't injuring Semi-Perfect Cell" Yea, and he still PUSHED HIM BACK. If Semi Perfect Cell was "so strong" then he would have treated Tri beam like a back scratcher, ignored it, and go after 18. But nope, Tri Beam held him back, Cell even gets pissed that he's being held back.
Destructo disk being ineffective against Perfect Cell is filler, Krillin never attempted it. Tri Beam has a wider range than Destructo Disk, Tri Beam > Destructo Disk. "Krillin never got his chance against Semi-Perfect Cell" Is that why he was punching him in the face, while Cell smiled and slapped him with his tail? Destructo Disk wouldn't have done jack, Cell would've either regenerated or dodged it effortlessly.
Toriyama saying Krillin was the strongest human was done way too recently. Toriyama stopped giving a rat's ass about DBZ, Quaaman also brought up the fact that the Daizenshuu has been leading more that Tien isn't Human.
but krillin also could have killed nappa they were equal in saiyan saga
You have good points, but the only thing I could say is that Tien used a beam attack while Krillin was using his punches and kicks.
Namesarefull I understand, the thing is that Tri Beam displays more strength than Destructo disc. Destructo disc is almost like a knife. I'm assuming Krillin never tried it because of Cell's regeneration
a few points of my own that you will probably quickly disprove since i suck at debating >.>
1. krillin would have killed nappa had vegeta not warned him about the distructo disc while tien's tribeam did jack shit....... krillin's signiture move is superior
2. krillin's distructo disc wouldn't do anything to semi perfect cell? you have no proof of that dude... you just pulled it out of your ass as an assumption. he can regnerate? you're right he can but if the distructo dissc could cut semi perfect cell 18 would have been released since krillin would most likely go for the top of the tail and if krilling keeps using distructo discs cell would have to keep regenerating witch means just like tien krillin would be able to hold off semi perfect cell not to mention he would actually be doing damage since he's cutting off body parts!
3. krillin says he stopped training.... that was a lie...... it's actually shown at one point in the buu saga that 18 forces krillin to train with her after all it's safe to assume to get a bad ass like that you need to be pretty damn powerful yourself so yeah krillin still trained during buu saga
welp that's all i got....... "waits to be owned"
KINGD353
1. I understand he could have potentially killed Nappa if Vegeta didn't yell at him. The thing is as I said earlier, Destructo disc is more like a knife, and doesn't necessarily display power. You could argue Destructo disc is a better technique overall, which it can be considering how it would have worked on Nappa. Tri Beam on the other hand uses the person's life force, Tri beam also has a wider attack range. As I mentioned earlier Tien would never stand there if he fought 1v1 with Krillin. Nappa made it clear Destructo disc is a joke to dodge, considering he just sat there and only moved his head. If Krillin attempts Destructo disc spam like he did on Frieza, then yea that would be more dangerous but not impossible to dodge.
2. There is enough evidence to suggest Destructo Disc wouldn't work on Cell. Warp Kamehameha blew off the top half of Cell's body, SSJ2 Gohan's Kamehameha blew off an arm and both legs, Final flash took out half of his torso. Almost every part of Cell's body had been blown up at some point before he died, a slice is ineffective against someone with regeneration, their entire body has to be eradicated. Cell even had his head blown off and he came back with ease. Krillin could have chopped his tail off to prevent 18 being absorbed, the only reason he probably didn't do this was fear of hitting 18.
3. He trained with 18 to prepare for the tournament to get back in shape, since after all it had been 7 years since they fought Cell, and Gohan especially got severely weak. It's very much possible Krillin still trained occasionally, but by growing his hair out, and not wearing his fighting uniform anymore suggests he stopped altogether. Yamcha is a good example, after Frieza he stopped wearing his fighting uniform except for when they looked for 19 and 20. Tien on the other hand kept being anti-social, and training peacefull with Chaotzu in the middle of nowhere.
Hey man, love your vids. Especially the ones about alternative timelines. If you haven't yet, could you do one going over everyone's power levels during DBZ? There are too many interpretations and your take on it would be nice. Thanks!
Hey Quaaman I love your video's keep up the good work and stay frosty. Quaaman can you please do a video on why is goku strong then vegta
I already did a video on that but blackenfist will upload that to his channel, i cant upload videos more than 15 minutes because of youtubes dumb strike.
Qaamans Land oh ya fuck RUclips sorry man
I like DBZ debates. If you love the series, and know a lot about it, it's really fun to either discuss them or to listen to other people about it. Wish I could join you guys
Hey big fan of your channel! This may be a somewhat big task. Even though you already have gave a timeline for all the DBZ movies. I would love for you to talk about all the DBZ movies and kinda rank them and say what you think the best/worst ones are.
Im not really the subjective type of guy but you should check out blackenfists video on the top 17 movies. he covers all of them and ranks each one. its one of his older videos.
Also tien was using his life force energy to hold off cells form with 17. He almost died just holding him off
Heyyy quuman I'm srry if I spelled that wrong hehe but anyways only if it's totally ok with you-could you make a segment on who's the strongest between super saiyan 3 goku or mystic gohan.
My 2 favorite dbz RUclips channel having a debate awesome. This feels like a Goku vs Vegeta fight
@ Qaamans Land
could you do 1 of the 3 DBZ what ifs? if you haven't already.
1. what if there was a Future Goten?
2. what if Future Gohan defeated the androids?
3. what if Goku teach Future Trunks to use instant transmission (a.k.a teleport) and told him where Namek is?
Tien destroys Krillin. Tien was stronger than Krillin in Dragon Ball, during the Saiyan Saga, Krillin may have been stronger than Tien in the Namek and Frieza Saga but I think Tien would have caught up and probably got stronger than Krillin in the 3 year training to fight the androids, cause while Tien was training hard Krillin was relying on Master Roshi to help him train which wouldn't be hard for Krillin since he has done that style of training before. After they fought and lost to the androids Tien went off to pick up Chiaotzu and continue training, meanwhile Krillin just went off to help move Goku from his home to Master Roshi's and was there right up until after Piccolo fought Cell. Tien made his next appearance with Piccolo saving Krillin from Cell. After that Tien continued to train while Krillin was at Master Roshi's. So you can see a obvious pattern here, while Krillin sits around Tien is constantly training.
Yamcha said Krillin was the strongest Earthling during the Buu arc, & Toriyama AND Mayumi Tanaka (his subbed VA) both said the same in an interview.
I strongly Agree with Qaaman. Plus, I would like to point out that after the buu saga, but not necessarily Dragon ball gt (since almost everyone doesn't count gt) all evil was erased from the universe. So, krillin and tien aged and krillin settled down and had his family: android 18 and maroon. However, tien never settled down and was always dedicated to training thus having an advantage over krillin. Now, if you want to include the GT series, it's stated and understood that despite his age, tien traveled the world and Still trained with chaiotsu. Probably because of his superhuman traits, he ages slower Than other humans like krillin. It was shown, but not clearly, that when the hole to hell was opened, tien was helping out probably defeating the villains or just maintaining the citizens. Also at the end of gt, it showed chiaotsu and tien meditating near a waterfall possibly showing that tien still trains. Krillin in gt is already an old person with a family and retired from fighting for he said to goku before he left with shenron, "I'm too old for This kind of stuff," which meant fighting. Go ahead and consider or disconsider DragonballGT, but I still strongly believe tien is powerful than krillin
I agree with Qaaman. Ultimately, Blackenfist citing Toriyama saying Krillin is the strongest human is a good point, but Qaaman's counter that Tien isn't human works. Toriyama said the HUMAN not earthling, which is the word he's used to describe all humanoid fighters originating from Earth save the Androids. Of course, you could also argue that Olibu is stronger than both of them. There's little to no way to compare the strengths of Krillin and Tien to Olibu, but that also means it's hard to prove they're stronger than him. I really enjoyed this debate and would like to see more like this in the future. Blackenfist definitely held his own and I agree that Krillin's destructo disc on Perfect Cell is no comparison to Tien's tri beam on Semi Perfect Cell, but Krillin attacking Semi Perfect Cell and doing zero damage or knockback is what seals the argument for me. Krillin's vision may have been compromised, but that has just about no effect on his power, which is what we're measuring. Tien may have caught Cell of guard with the FIRST tri beam, but all subsequent tri beams Cell was ready for and a few after the initial one still managed to knock Cell farther into the hole, and this was with him actively resisting Tien so he could absorb 18, and he was still completely held back. I still believe Tien is the strongest Earthling next to Uub and possibly Olibu; great job to both of you on this video, and the moderator too.
I think Krillin can be the strongest with Tien still winning the fight.. Even if tien is slightly weaker than Krillin, his Tri-Beam would still be more powerful as it's different than normal ki attacks.. He was holding back 2nd form cell with it ffs, would melt krillin. The destructo disc is also easier to dodge when on guard than the tri-beam.
It's the other way, the kienzan is much more effective than the shin kikoho. You have to be caught off of guard to be hit by the shin kikoho, and he becomes weaker every time he throw one (with about 7 being his limit), while Krillin can throw the kienzan a lot of times.
I think krillen is stronger because in the Saiyan Saga Tian didnt do ANYTHING to Nappa with his Tri-Beam while Krillen's Destructo Disk actually gave Nappa a cut on the Cheek...hell even Vegeta told Nappa to move which shows that the attack was stronger AND they both did the same training during the 1 year between the Saiyan Arrival
thanks for agreeing
your right akira said he was stronger in an interview
A suggestion I have is Chilled vs Frieza. Is Frieza stronger than Chill? Another one I have is Brief-Breigh (Vegeta's last name) vs Son Family (Goku's last name). This would be an interesting par up. The wifes -Bulma vs ChiChi. Husbands -Goku vs Vegeta. Son (first generation) Future Trunks vs Gohan. And Sons (second generation) -Trunks vs Goten (as teens).
I would like to make a point that was not mentioned in the video about the argument used supporting Tien with his use of the Tri Beam Cannon against Cell. You forgot about the fact that the Tri Beam Cannon is an extremely powerful attack. In terms of relativity, it is a technique which has actually been stated to be much more powerful than the Kamehameha. The technique taps beyond one's Ki and uses one's life force to make it that much more powerful. In terms of it's usage it did hold Cell down but that was it, until he couldn't fire anymore that was all he could do with it.
Akira Toriyama comes in and saves the day. This was a nice debate! How about you guys do a debate on who is stronger Zoro or Sanji?
Qaaman, I'm with you on this one, and consider this, an ultimate kikoho; remember the extra arms Tein used in his first fight with Goku? A kikoho projected through a kikoho, no kienezan can beat that.
What about Krillian and Tien against Nappa? I don't think you guys used that example. How would that affect the argument?
Excuse me if anyone has brought this up already, but in defense of Tien being stronger than Krillin think back to the Cell games. When the Z fighters were fighting the Cell Jr.'s, Krillin was getting mauled while Tien was at least holding his own. Now I'm not sure how much of that was filler (after watching Qaaman and Blackenfist's videos I'm doubting alot of what I know about dragonball) but that does show that Tien did have a good advantage as far as strength was concerned. Now this is also taking into account that Krillin is a coward and was more scared than willing to fight but even still he couldn't even touch the Cell Jr. that he was fighting. But that's just my 2 cents on the matter. Wonderful debate and I hope for more of these in the future.
+Qaaman's Land: What would have happened in DBZ had Krillin, Gohan, and Bulma been killed on fake namek and had their ship taken by the two aliens to Namek? Those three characters turn out to have a huge impact on DBZ and GT. Krillin's death was intrumental in Goku becoming SSJ. Gohan defeats Cell and bulma has to have trunks for anyone to be warned of the Androids. seems like that one plot stream could have unhinged the entire series.
Qaamans Land
You forgot to mention during the Cell Games that prior to receiving a Senzu Bean, Tien could still sand up, whereas Krillin was practically unconscious.
Honestly I think that in this debate, without any prior knowledge of DBZ, I would say I buy into Qaaman's Argument over Blackenfist's.
However, after factoring in all I know about DBZ, I would have to say it really is 50/50.
My eyes tell me that Tien has more brute strength but Krillin has more speed in battle. Tien fights with more confidence and has more effective techniques, but Krillin always seems to hang around in fights.
The tiebreaker for me is the fight with Nappa.
Tien got kicked to the curb and couldn't land a single shot. His energy blast took all of his energy and killed him, and Nappa remained largely unaffected.
Krillin got in a few quick blows, evaded Nappa's grasp, and would've cut Nappa in half if his Destructo Disk had hit him. The disk drained nowhere near as much of his energy.
If you look at power levels from the Daizenshuu guide, during the Arrival of Raditz, Tien is at 250 while Krillin is at 206.
During the battle with the Saiyans, Tien is at 1,830 while Krillin is at 1,770.
The evidence suggests Tien is stronger than Krillin.
That's my take on it lol.
Isn't the Tri-beam cannon is a life force based technique?
so wouldn't that kill tein? also he has the evil containment wave
Except that Krillin DID fight 2nd Form Cell before he launched the Solar Flare and got bitch-slapped by his tail...
I have a question for all of you. Can you see krillin doing what he did to second form cell
I think I saw it he made cell bleed a bit
I've wondered about this for some time. I'm going to give the argument to Thundershot69. Qaamans Land had a more solid argument, but if you go onto dragon ball dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Tien_Shinhan he is listed as a human. If the writer says that one is the strongest, then they are the strongest.
thundershot was the moderator lol. He wasnt in the debate for a side.
Qaamans Land I'm Sorry, Blackenfist argued for Krillin. DBZ is a very difficult show to compare stats and power levels with other characters. Unless if the author tells you or a character fights each other, I don't think that its possible to truly compare fighters.
Request Debate Bojack vs Broly, Meta Coolers Power level/Scale, and SPC vs the winner of Bojack vs Broly
Quaaman do you ever do any Naruto videos?? Please let me know.
Qaaman you should do a video on what if goku didnt die in the fight with raditz. I think i got it figured out but i still like your intake
The Tri-Beam draws on the user's life force and shortens their life. We know this because it's made clear during the World Tournament in Dragon Ball.
So, while it's true that Tien could push Cell back, you forget that in doing so, Tien nearly died. As soon as Tien stopped attacking Cell, he was quite clearly fine, if not a little pissed off. Remember that Piccolo was easily disposed of by Imperfect Cell on their second encounter, and all of his attacks were completely useless. Keep in mind that at that point, Piccolo was the strongest Z-Fighter.
I disregard Tien vs. Cell in a strength debate because Tien was making a sacrifice play, he was using his vital life force. Much like when Majin Vegeta sacrificed himself against Buu. Neither character had any intention of surviving the encounter.
if your going to say that you read in several sources that tien isn't human then the debate is officially over because this debate was about if krillin and tien is the strongest "human" which means yes krillin is the strongest human and tien would then be the wweakest non human
I dunno it seemed like Akira Toryiama contradicted himself a little because he vocalized that Krillin is the strongest, yet in the Manga and Anime and keep in mind the Manga is more canon than anything else, Tien did hold down Cell with that Tribeam. So with that in mind it really makes it hard for me to decide who is strongest between the two.
okay I always wanted to know what if Raditz wasn't a dumbass and he flew up and avoided the special beam Cannon
Could you do a video on the possibility of meta cooler becoming the strongest being in the universe under the power of the BGS. Think about it, the star heals any injury and then prevents it from happening again so does that mean that bills or god goku couldn't kill meta cooler.
Tien - Hold Cell down for about 4 min after he owned Piccolo and absorbed #17
Krillin - Punches Cell in the face 20-25 times and angry meaning his power would possibly have to be higher than normal.
Apparently Tien is weaker than Krillin...
Good debate. Now I want to see more!!!
This makes me think.. did Tien possibly go in the time chamber? Why would the tri-beam cannon push semi-perfect cell back when just before, he got godstomped by Android 17 at like 1% of his power?
What about Why is goku stronger then vegeta? Are you still planing to upload it on blackenfist channel or?
yes but on blackenfists channel.
24 people read the description :P
so...what about that youtube strike? what happened?
I still have the strike but this video is shorter than 15 minutes so i can upload it.
Colin Boots I still have it unfortunately. I wont hear back from the corporation in 10-14 days.
aww man :( am looking forward to "Why is Goku stronger than Vegeta?" but we all know the real answer is that Toriama (don't ask can't spell) just plain hates Vegeta so he made him weak :/
Is tien even human?
big deal also this might be minor but in raging blast a stage called strongest human Krillin asks tien if is human
He is human. The third eye is just meant to be a reference to the Chinese idea of opening your third eye. There's not really any logistical basis behind that design choice. He is human, and he's honestly not the weirdest creature on dragon ball's earth. That's like saying krillin isn't human because he doesn't have a nose.
I would like to say that both Tien and Chiaotzu are human, and that this is briefly talked about in Dragon Ball. I appreciate that Qaaman said that the sources were semi-official, because that's honestly bull. The third eye is a result of training, and Chiaotzu is just a psychic with pale skin.
Also I forgot include if he actually beat frieza
Here is a simple way to find an answer. Compare their fights vs. the Cell Jrs and see who scores better.
This is a muddy argument. I do not know who is stronger, but I would prefer Tien simply for the fact that he trains more.
Yeah and he seems more serious even though he gets brushed aside but you get the point.
I have always thought Tien was stronger for the same exact reasons you have Qamman,
Both Quaaman and Blackenfist forgot a major point. When somebody does the tribeam, I believe the beam is 10x stronger than its user. Krillin has no technique like that. That is why tien held his own against Cell and krillin could not.
wow something i forgot yeah it is true since tri beam is spirit energy which would have to keep you alive and would be stronger than normal ki energy
I'd also like to add that the Tri-Beam /greatly/ exaggerates one's own power by using their life force. There's no way Tien would have been able to do a thing with any other generic ki attack, even if he put all of his regular energy into it.
Piccolo's Light Grenade doing absolutely nothing to Imperfect Cell drives that home. Unless you think Tien's more powerful than him without the Tri-Beam?
They could definitely kill each other with their signature moves, but both of them rely on some inherent advantage to the move rather than solely relying on one's power level or strength.
Suggestions: What if vegito never defused?
Can goku with god zenkai boost take on buu saga vegeta
SSJ god vs SSJ 4 (i think ssj 4)
If goku wasn't sent to earth
If Goku didn't bump his head
(for the two above: effects on dbz, not db)
If Gohan lost to super perf cell (did u do that already?)
The Not-So-Newby Gamer I meant buu saga vegito
Keep in mind,it almost killed Tien to even push Cell,it'd be easier to gauge power if Krillin did a Tri-beam on 2nd form Cell as well.I'd go with Blakenfist because of what Toriyama stated,but if Tien isn't human,then that'd surely leave it more open for debate.
do you think there will be more dragon ball seasons or will it die off?
You forgot--Tien deflected a ki blast from Super Buu, which I think is worth something.
Also FWIW in the Japan only SNES game, Dragon Ball Z: Super Saiya Densetsu, Tien's power level is always higher than Krillin's throughout the entire game--and you can keep all the Z Fighters alive past the fight with Nappa. It also show how much the Guru unlock is worth in power level, and its not THAT much. Tien and every surviving mber can get it also. Tien is always stronger.
the way I see it you can't tell the creator he is wrong at the end of the day it is his story, if you want tien human then write your own anime
Qaaman's arguments are much stronger than blackenfist's especially concerning Tien's attack on Semi-perfect Cell although blackenfist has some valid points... overall good debate. I would like to add that another argument for tien being stronger than Krillin is the the fact that when the z fighter are attacking cell from behind during the Kamehameha clash between gohan & cell, Cell delivers a final power up that throws off all the z fighters in order: yamcha, then Krillin then Tien then Picollo obviously in order of power levels Tien > krillin
Energy attacks isn't a great example of a show of power. They can be inflated in power by certain conditions, Tri-Beam canon for example uses Tien's life-energy which greatly inflates his ki pool but like it shows makes the user pass out if used too often in succession. I'm firmly on the Krillin train for strongest Earthling other than Uub
So, if it isn't in the manga, does that mean it's not cannon?
I don't want to give you a dislike, because I do like this video, but I have to say in my personal opinion Krillin is stronger. I'm no expert though.
How do you think Master Roshi or Gohan in their prime would have fared against threats like the Vegeta and Nappa, or even Cell? I think it's safe to say they wouldn't stand much of a chance against Buu since even Kais had a difficult time fighting him. Also, do you think it would have been better for Roshi to have fought alongside the Z Fighters? Also, why does Chi Chi give up on fighting? I can't seem to remember an explanation or find a clip of it. I haven't seen all of Dragon Ball so maybe the answer is there, but it seems like she could have kept training like Krillin and Tien or anyone else.
We will never know if Tien had any hidden potential. Let's assume that Krillin had Vegeta's powerlevel when Vegeta arrived on earth with Nappa, but it was merely not yet unlocked. Once Krillin gets to Namek, he has around the same PL he did on earth which was around 1.5 thousand. So, Krillin was walking around with Vegeta type strength all this time but never knew it while everyone else needed training, even Goku, and Vegeta was special. Way back in Dragonball, Master Roshi comments that the one the improved the most was Krillin. The thing with Krillin is that he's special but his lack of self esteem brings down his potential.
Tenshinhan has a third eye he wins by default
I choose Krillin since he married a hottie :P . Also, destructo disk is a concentrated ki, tri beam is a spread ki blast so both of your argument of that part is invalid . We also cannot assume that krillin didnt train on later parts of the series, the same concept could also be applied to tien (that he trains) . It could be that he is nearby the area when majin buu is fighting gohan and he felt the urge to help gohan . Krillin would have done the same thing . Just saying, dont hate me D:
i would say 18 is the strongest human ..-_- gonna provide any evidence that Tien or Krillin was stronger than her by the time Buu saga came around?..cuz thats quite a power gap to fill
Is receiving a zenkai boost more efficient than training in the hyperbolic time chamber in becoming stronger?
Vegeta told Krillin to blast through his chest so he could become stronger after Dende heals him. Then Vegeta was able to atleast move Frieza around, where before he was struggling against Frieza's first form. I imagine that it would only take about 5 minutes to get blasted through your chest and then get healed by Dende.
Trunks was able to kill King Cold and Mecha Frieza so easy. But then he got destroyed by android 17. After he went into the hyperbolic time he became much stronger than 18, who is about as strong as 17. But it took 1 day to achieve that.
Hey I've been wondering and hoping if u can make a video abuot how vegeta died in future trunks's timeline
what race is Mr.Popo. How many times were Toriyama has been wrong and you have a video about Toriyama says crazy things.
He is a genie.
Hey guys I chose Tien, or, Tenshinhan. It may appear as a dislike, for, Krillin, or, Kuririn.( I used to think it was Kuririn, but now I choose Tenshinhan.
I gave the video a like.
Sorry Blackenfist, but I always thought Tien was stronger as well.
guys, look at it like this: when super perfect cell & gohan ssj2 were in the kamehameha battle and then you seen krillin yamcha tien & piccolo go and try to attack cell, at the very end right before vegeta ultimately blasts cell and gives gohan the edge (i know this is different in the manga) but when cell finally blasted away those 4 guys: look at the ORDER of which they flew away! it went yamcha, then krillin, THEN tien, and THEN piccolo. in my opinion that was clear distinction on who was stronger because of how long they were able to last before cell blew them all away. yamcha is obviously the weakest, but then krillin went, then tien and then piccolo (we all know piccolo was the strongest out of them) but Tien is easily stronger than krillin IMO. i really don't think it's close either - now you have to take into account yes, tien most likely isn't a human, so krillin WOULD indeed be the strongest human if you don't consider tien a human (although I think he was just a mutation of some sort, basically not pure bread human though) and you have to remember, after cell krillin stopped training..tien continued to train.
i really don't think it's close, and use that reference i said of how they blew away against cell. yamcha, then krillin, THEN tien, then piccolo. i think that's clear right there about who was stronger at that time and then you can only assume that since tien always trained and krillin STOPPED training then, tien is easily stronger, and i don't even think it's CLOSE.
May you should do a review on how many points gohan could've became super saiyan before the hyperbolic time chamber
Anyone rememer Olibu from other world in the tournoments?
But, that's FILLER.
This was a really good debate.
Technically, if Krillin had been bombarding Cell with Destructo Discs, it would have done much more damage and bought 18 and 16 more time because it would have sliced Cell in half. And since the Tri-Beam, Tien's Go-To Attack, is weaker than the Destructo Disc, Krillin's Go-To attack, it would give Krillin some more points.
I read the interveiw where Akira Toryama officially said "Krillen is stronger." MY opinion however, based off of many of the claims made in this video, and just what I have seen in teh anime overall is that Tien is stronger, UNLESS you dont consider Tien a human.
(video idea) What if Goku never turned Super Saiyan? And you do Pokemon too right? (idea...again) What if Ash never choose Pikachu?
What would have happened if Raditz had come to earth to warn goku of Vegeta and nappa instead to ready the planet for them?
This argument kind of falls apart when you know that the ki-ko-ho is stronger than the kienzan when used by equal fighters. In a one on one fight whit standard tournament rules I think that krillin would win because he has more medium strength options.
but Tien is not human to begin with
Can't speak for the manga, but in the anime, Tien was the more powerful. You can argue he always had to go straight for the big gun, the Tri-Beam Cannon, but you could argue that Krillin's trump card, the Destructo-Disc, was usually ineffective.
Hey dude can you make a what if frieza would become a good guy? that would awesome :)