codafett Which don’t apply as DBZA is a parody. It doesn’t take full DBZ episodes, in fact it splices like 5 eps in one, missing large chunks. And even then, the characters, their motivations, their relationships, & the story itself are completely different as it is a comedic parody of DBZ.
Tien who has been training nonstop since the original Dragon Ball gets absolutely nothing, no new moves, no power ups, no good fights, and no respect. All because he isn't a Saiyan, Android, or Gokus best friend.
By the fucking way i have to add, Fucking Krillin buffed Taiyo Ken, a Tien technique, first than Tien himself. Honestly Tien can make something stupid like omnidirectional Kikoho
@@thegreatyami mb counted krillin as one since rival is under the antagonist type stuff android 17 i guess did save the W in the tourney, but they tossed aside 18 like they do with most chicks in the show
"Tien's greatest accomplishment in life is nearly dying just holding the worst form of a villain in place so Krillen could later impregnate a supermodel he was chasing" Oh god.. Oh god he's right
Honestly, Krillin and Vegeta's actions (destroying the remote and letting Cell absorb 18) pretty much made Tien's whole stand-off against Cell pointless. So fuck them
I think that his character is a really good example of 'sometimes just training alone doesn't do the job' which is very true. He doesn't train with anybody, ever, and has so much hubris that he opens a dojo. Meanwhile, Krillin trained with Roshi and Goku while working out on the side. Piccolo trained with Gohan when he wasn't training on his own. Vegeta and Goku have Beerus, etc. I think the only other really good example of a character getting too much fan service in this case is Roshi however, it was so well written that people don't want to bring up that unpopular of an opinion.
@@jgcapers3860 so chaiotzu doesn't exist? And since you mentioned krillin, did you notice how Super is the first time in 9 years krillin has trained and he shoots through the roof? Meanwhile Tien does nothing but train all day everyday and gets nothing? Japan just doesn't like Tien since he's china the character.
Yamcha failures are seen as endearing/funny? Lol losing your gf so she can have a kid with the man that killed you might be funny but only in the look at how absolutely pathetic this man is kind of way. Yamcha is funny because of how pathetic and sad he is. He is the butt of the joke. Funny because he is easy to mock.
@The Brick Layer that just makes it worst lol. Not sure how the orginal commenter thinks yamcha failure is endearing as he is the most pathetic character. Getting recked by the most trash villains. Treated like crap by Toriyama.
@@Pandaman64 First off that's headcannon. Nothing in the series shows he is rich and him playing baseball in DBZ was anime filler. So it being cannon is as questionable as him being as strong as the ginyu force on King Kai planet. And even after the sayian saga there is nothing that even shows he still playing baseball. Yamcha is treated like crap. The rich baseball player headcannon is just so people feel better about him or so they can say things like tien has it worst then yamcha.
@@Alexander-the-Mediocre at the beginning of z, he basically gets to pressure the team owner to pay him extra to win games, since even yamcha has a crazy level compared to regular guys. It was made clear he didn't like it, and preferred fighting. But it's not a bad life. I also wish toriyama would stop getting bored of his toys and maybe actually write something worth a damn for the human characters. But it's not an awful life for yamyams.
@InfernosReaper Hey, put some respect on Yamcha's name. He was the first guy to combine ki into his body for an attack and was a prodigal fighter that learned Roshi's techniques real quick. Yeah, after he got Yamcha'd he got shafted by the series forever, but he used to be him for like 10 episodes.
@@HobDogAs a person, sure, but as a fighter, he was the *first* one thrown under the bus and left to rot. Ever since his leg was broken by Tien, it was all downhill from there.
@@MinscFromBaldursGate92 honestly he almost went in the right direction, and that was ultra instinct -sign- Goku wasn't stronger than Jiren, but he was faster and was dodging his attacks. That was a step in the right direction and ultra instinct even came with a drawback. Mastered came along and ruined it but boy did it mess him up. But... Let's not forget Super's ending. It was the power of trust, and not brute strength, that won the tournament.
-Four Arms -Multiply -Solar Flare -Third Eye -Years of training and dedication -Psychic -Combo Moves -Energy Cancellation -Kikoho -Bald These are reasons why Tien is great.
@@TheLikenessOfNormal He's psychic. Remember him talking with Chaiotzu telepathically? I'm pretty sure it's his third eye that allowed that. I can't recall, but I'm pretty sure he had a psychic stun move... I know he had a push of psychic energy as a knock back attack with one hand, where he didn't fire a ki-blast. It was more like propulsion in cinematic view, but that was also a psychic move against the Saibaman he was fighting. And his Ki Akeshi literally uses psychic powers to cancel out ki-blasts. More than certain Tenshinhan is psychic as well, not just Chaiotzu.
Roshi's characterization in the Tien episode bothers me. Roshi is a master who has dedicated three hundred years to the martial arts, so being invited to Tien's dojo as an honorary master _should_ matter to him. And on top of that, the closer you look at the history and connections between them and their stories, the more heartbreaking it becomes when Roshi acts like a tired hanger on at a party.
Roshi is awesome and Plague knows that. Given the context of everything by putting Roshi on a pedestal we should be equally if not more so be aggravated Tien is being downplayed and completely dismissed. It isnt to discredit Roshi it is to highlight that fact. Yes Roshis contribution to martial arts is huge and we all love that, but the poorly written story is only doing dumb shit like Roshi being a bored perv not teaching martial arts. Power scale wise Roshi has not been useful since pre-Goku loses to Tien. We can talk about Yajirobes merits as well he literally ate Piccollos brother. But Yajirobe is still comparatively a harmless fly compared to Tien, tien is Ginyu level fighting capacity minimum (so is yamcha by the way >,>). Anyways yea if were bitch slapping Tien into nothingness, then to fluff Krillin and Roshi is painfully and obviously nonsensical...
Just remember, Chiaotzu got it even worse. In Dragonball he was an actual martial artist and had actually powerful techniques and psychic powers, and Krillin only even managed to beat him by tricking him with a maths question and he was assumed to be strong enough to kill Goku and Tien using his psychic abilities alone.
No, Tien got it much worse because he went from the strongest human (or even character, at the time) who was all that, to a complete weak nobody with a side of nothing
@@dexter111344 The entire Moro arc was schizophrenic, scatter brained schlock. Almost every character gets a moment to shine, but then get conveniently tossed to the side when Moro pulls a Perfect Cell and absorbs a bio-android then Goku gets to have the spotlight again.
@@ultralevixz5912 tien does one thing in Z. Hold down cell for a min. Humans in general do nothing in Z. Krillian who in namek gets a bs power up normally reserved for sayian making him by far the strongest human is just so he doesn't instantly die and can get beat up to show how strong the villains are. And so goku can turn super sayian. Z treats humans like crap and most moments when they do something in the anime its filler. Cool moment of tien fighting nappa. Filler. Humans fighting ginyu force on planet kai. Stupid filler. Humans training in the sayian saga. Filler. Yamcha not being a loser and having a baseball career. Filler.
Tien is just like Rock Lee from Naruto. Introduced early in the original series to be a rival to main cast, to then over time be phased out and forgotten about. Becoming a side character that does nothing.
That's every side character in DB. Kirllian was his rival, then tien was his rival, then yajirobi was goku equal (stronger then tien but never a rival cause piccolo was the rival right after), then piccolo is his rival. Then finally they stopped when Vegita showed up.
@@InfernosReaperno they are equal in their fight neither is ahead before they are interrupted. But my point is that every new person is stronger then the last and tien being left behind isnt special or racist just bad writting.
slayertakim1 They *NEVER* claimed they did it first, their fans only think that because people see the ones who do it the most as the original user when that's a fallacy.
this video is wrong First tien was weaker than kid goku he is straight lying kikoho doesn't work that way Kiai technique can only be used to block much weaker attacks He learned the kamehameha only he can't copy all moves krillin and goku did the kamehameha on their first try Tien is 5-6 older than krillin when he was introduced he had way more intense training Krillin was constantly closing the gap with tien throughout original dragon ball and had only a 3% difference in power in saiyan saga Watch original dragon ball Dbz kai (not dbz) from saiyan to cell saga oh yeah what about all those fillers toei kept giving tien in db and dbz just to make him look good in EVERY fight ,krillin gets non .... Tien trained with only 1 goal to surpass or maybe prepare for a new threat all of which he dropped in cell saga he said that himself he now has a job Toriyama said only piccolo vegeta and goku train all the time he doesn't train all the time
DBZ: abridged is far superior in my mind. I never had an emotional investment in any of the characters in the original. It was fun to watch but it was largely just fights. I legit teared up when chiaotzu and Tien died and Kami merged with Piccolo.
And thats the problem with the tournament, it tried to be more than just who had the biggest number, but it ultimately bowed down to the toriyama formula of having the villains have bigger numbers than the previous one and then focusing the arc around who has the biggest number by throwing in new forms.
@@thebossmana except that only happens because the protagonist got infinite plot armor. Jiren literally gave no fuck till like 10 mins left in the tournament when he can blitz and end every single participant by himself. He just sit around doing no shit but then he suddenly get super motivated and must not lose at all. This guy had the worst writing of any character ever.
I watched DB in chronological order, so when Tien and Chiaotzu were introduced in Dragon Ball I thought they were so cool. They were the biggest threat Goku had faced at that point, and were actually intimidating. And now Tien is trashed and Chiaotzu is basically forgotten. The same goes for Yamcha. His Wolf Fang Fist was always so cool
Fun Fact: Tien/Choutzu were the first characters to fly using Ki in Dragon Ball because they were that skilled. They called it Skywalking...then everybody else somehow magically learned how to fly.
Definitely so then there might be a chance for toriyama to see it and then fix tenshinhan character and give him ultra instinct because he deserves it for training all of his life.
I don't remember that move ever actually destroyong anything. And I'm not trying to be funny. I remember him hitting Cell with it and it being effective bit it didn't destroy anything but the ground around him.
That's sorta what I meant when I said "destroyed its target the moment it was fired." It never did much to Ten's opponents, but once it was fired, there was suddenly a square hole in the ground it _did_ hit. Maybe "it hit the moment it was fired" would be better wording.
I remember thinking, having seen the set-up with Harmira (the "green duck" in a speedo) being an unseen sniper, that the writers of Super were going to draw on Tenshinhan's past as an assassin and have him counter-snipe using his dodonpa. Then counteract using Prum to reflect/rebound shots by escalating things with the multi-form technique and essentially becoming his own team of snipers. I was ready for a different kind of thinking to combat this mystery sharpshooter idea. You cannot imagine my disappointment when all four Tiens just... ran out into open terrain. And the episode wasn't even about him.
Man, you must’ve thought Madhouse or Bone studio were the ones animating the fight. Even at top shape with the highest budget they’ve ever had, Toei has never done anything this multifaceted and complex 😂
@@jcnot9712 Oh nah, they are able to throw a lot of money in some specific scenes, these mfs are billionaires, and DB and One Piece are their highest source of income.
@Xavier Thomas I dont the only time Vegeta was cool was during the original Saiyan arc and right before he starts crying like a bitch before Frieza kills him.
@@QwyattStorm "Crying like a bitch before Frieza kill him"...was that how it came across in the English dub version? I knew the English script American version was awful but wow. In the manga and the Japanese version, that was actually a moving moment where Vegeta let go of his own ego and pride and stop pretending to not give a shit, and shown his vulnerability as a person and truly wished Goku to defeat Frieza for the sake of avenging the Saiyan race.
Is anybody else bothered by the fact that gohan taught Hercule's daughter ki control enough that she learned to fly, but Tien, a man who has lived longer, fought longer, and was arguably the best z fighter behind goku, could not train the nameless students 😐
They said Videl was a prodigy and probably stronger than Hercule, but, no one cares, no one gives a fuck about Videl after Gohan turned her into a fucken calm Chi-Chi. Tien is probably 2x older than Gohan, has more experience, developed a technique stronger than the Kamehame-ha (said by Master Roshi himself in the Classic Dragon Ball), was the second character to fly in the series (Chiaotzu being the first) and was a trained mercenary. But Toriyama doesn't give a fuck about that and just make him utterly useless and a "extreme and bad" teacher because he couldn't teach HIS OWN STUDENTS how to control their ki.
DB Trifusions and the video about staying on model where he draws Goku. Any video he's done even remotely related to Dragon Ball will have griping about Super to some extent, though the Trifusions were more focused on griping about Launch.
Agreed, Not that plaque isn't very talented as an artist, I just think his weird furry fetish, which Is very weird, is weird. But he is incredibly good at talking about things like this.
@@wardenunknown God Orange Piccolo is the stupidest fucking thing, makes me wonder if the reason they named it that was to try and get people to not think fucking BEAST GOHAN wasn't a stupid idea for a powered up form of Ultimate, which also makes no fucking sense considering that Ultimate is supposed to be all of your power with no draw backs of needing to transform and waste your stamina/energy to do it so turning it into a transformation makes the entire point of it useless, let alone naming it fucking BEAST of all things. Honestly I could be into Orange Piccolo if they just called it Dragon Piccolo or something since that makes way more sense considering where he got the form from.
pikkoro can stretch his arms and become huge..could of been useful vs oozaru gohan and saving gohan from nappa without dying right?...i know its meant to be an instant reaction in the manga and the anime slows it down for us to see but he still did not have to die there or blow up the moon just to stop gohan...its so dumb...
I loved Tien Shinhan. They made him an absolute joke of a character. Let’s ignore the fact that he held Cell’s semi perfect form down with the Tri Beam. Let’s ignore how he beat Goku in the twenty second martial arts tournament. Once in my opinion, the coolest human is now a living joke.
lets also not forget that when the gang thought that goku was killed by piccolo, tien was the only hope left. that's how strong he was. lets also not forget that he was capable of doing the mafuba and survive, something that even roshi couldn't do. Yeah, it failed to work on piccolo, but it was cool nonetheless. Tien IS one of the best characters in the franchise and everyone who did watch the original series knows it.
@@yungblade7 No, he really didn't. His Tri-beam was about as effective as a sunbed against Buu. Rahul Sar Agreed. Yamcha was introduced as something of a prodigy. He was supposed to be the strongest human (or at least strongest potential) until he was surpassed by Krillin and he was made completely worthless by more fighters in tournaments and had his leg broken by Tien. The only good thing he did since then was in filler episodes of Z where he fought the Ginyus on King Kai's planet and fought in other world.
basically almost all 2nd villains that appeared with the main villain that never appeared again or characters that never appeared again after thier debut or usless characters (zarbon, dodoria, nappa, Nail, etc) thanks to tfs these characters that were gonna be forgotten for sure will never be thanks to tfs
See, Tien should actually be SUPER terrifying. If you remember back in Dragonball his schtick was that he could replicate ANY technique he's seen before. He's seen Ultra Instinct, he's seen Hit's dumb Time Skip, he's seen those stupid magical girl transformations, he's seen most of Beerus' attacks... Shouldn't he be absolutely terrifying and one of the strongest characters in the show?
Kilo6Charlie oh shit man, that’s actually a super good point, why isn’t he more of a main character? i mean if krillin can be a side-main then why can’t he.
In all honesty tein is what happens when you design a character to be a villain but then try to turn them to a good guy and you utterly fail at that. Vegeta is a good turn but we never see any screen time of him fighting or doing anything meaningful to be honest vegeta and tein are in the we don’t do anything and are basically pointless club and it honestly sucks because they are really really good characters and they could show that hard work pays off but nope just be the main character in a series and you will get just about everything handed to you. 😤Dragon ball super could have fixed the problems that DBZ created where they wrote off everybody that wasn’t an alien.
Man, if they hate Tien so much, then it would be better if they just wrote him out of the story for good. There are people who like him and remember him being cool (myself included) and they don't enjoy watching him being disrespeced for no reason other than shitty writing. He was introduced as a martial arts prodigy with great set of skills and mental discipline. Since fighting is basicly all he does in his life, he should be amazing after all those years of training. Kinda reminds me of what they did with Luke and Han in sequel trilogy. Is it so hard to understand that nobody likes to see old heroes being old, weak and defeated? I'd rather don't see Tien at all, remember his greatest moments and wonder how he's doing now (hoping for the best) than get to see that he sucks.
Honestly it's kind of wild how Tenshinhan has such a great utility in ki negation. That would make him incredibly viable! Like, straight up, imagine if he trained in it enough that virtually any energy attack was useless if he could anticipate it. Tenshinhan would have been perfect to represent the value of not just power level or resourcefulness, but also an incredible skill pool.
One of the problems the franchise suffers is that, unless you can keep up with the other characters and have an awesome power up, chances are you are gonna get forgotten. But the thing is, why not just leave him alone? Why drag such big chunk of the cast everywhere when mostly Goku, Vegetta or Gohan at best are gonna do most of the important stuff?
Tien being weaker than Roshi and Krillin is just disrespectful, Roshi retired from martial arts and Krillin stopped training and got so weak that fucking bullets could hit him, Tien was training all the time but Roshi's "secret training" (probably masturbating 24/7) made him even stronger. Not to mention that they spend so much time establishing that "In Tournament of Power strategy will be important and you can't win with raw power alone" but in the end it came down to raw power and fighters who use "strategy" only took down a bunch of weaklings before getting knocked off.
>Bullets can hurt him he's weak >Super literally has SSB Goku get shot in the back by a laser ring that almost kills him because he wasn't prepared Not knowing that you need your Ki up to block ranged weapon attacks is pretty lame.
@@TheLikenessOfNormal the 1st thing we see goku do in dragon ball is get shot in the head and it doing nothing, you know before he knew what ki even was
@@TheLikenessOfNormal This is an argument the fandom has constantly. In Goku's first appearance, he face tanks handgun bullets. I'm not going to try and analyze the caliber, because that'd be pointless. It would kill any other person. In later material, he can have his skin cut and penetrated, with the oft-cited excuse being that "you have to have your ki up to defend against attacks." Here's the problem: While Goku, in episode 1 of Dragonball, had his guard up... he didn't know what ki was. In fact, when the time came for him to learn about ki, it was shown that he wasn't able to manifest it at first. So, Goku's bulletproof nature *must* have been a biological feature of saiyan anatomy. This stuff that came later wherein he can be wounded by gunshots because his "ki was down" is just forgetful writing.
@@revolrz22 Well we know for a fact that toriyama didn't plan out his writing. But I do have a fair rebuttal to your point (in my humble opinion). I would say that Saiyans likely have the ability to innately use their ki, which we see when Goku is able to do things like perform the kamehameha after seeing it once. So I would say that the enhanced physical feats he's displaying would be demonstrating that he's using his ki to augment his physical abilities and thus his toughness. Since we know those are the 2 primary features of utilizing ki with your body in battle. So even though he doesn't know what it is doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't instinctively using it. And Vegeta had no idea what ki was either until he realized it was just the earthling term for the power that most higher beings like he saiyans innately used. Like how in Yu Yu Hakusho you find out why Yusuke and Kuwabara hit so hard is because they innately put their spirit power into their strikes.
I watched this video when it first came out years ago but after just finishing the Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z manga, I had to watch it again. I get so much more out of it now knowing how cool and powerful Tien was. It's so sad what they did to him. And god that line about "I guess you'll never see me again" was so brutal in the manga. Like... okay then, goodbye I guess. Only for him to come back in one scene against Boo and get instantly defeated. So depressing. No one has a sadder life than him.
Gokuu also didn't eliminate anyone in ToP, manga version of it is far more rushed. Tien, I think he's a bit better on the manga compared to the anime, which's not a compliment, 'cause all he did was Kikoho Frost and get eliminated, but at the very least he did something lol.
@@Lukmendes But didn't his kikoho just make Forst laugh and call him weak? I think that just makes him look worst then him taking out some random scrub. Lol side note no hj for krillian in the super manga he was absolutely pointless in the ToP. Tien was then to show how outclasses humans so he had a purpose a very shitty one but at least he had one.....krillian on the other hand had no point.
@@Alexander-the-Mediocre Yeah, he just did a kikoho that did nothing to Frost and got eliminated in the manga. I do think that's an improvement, at least he's getting jobbed by a strong opponent instead of struggling against a weak one, and doesn't look like as much of a dumbass, and isn't the worst part of the manga version of it, 'cause Tien's episode from the anime is just, so bad lol. So yeah, it's not much of a compliment regardless, he's bad in bother versions. And yeah, Krillin was rather pointless too, he got eliminated so fast that Goku didn't even realize it until a few minutes afterwards lol.
I can actually confirm this; Park Rangers are incredibly powerful. Becoming a Park Ranger gives you incredible amounts of power. It isn't about training, Park Rangers are simply that powerful.
So the minute I become a park ranger, I dont need to train, I am now at a level beyond what started out being far beyond that of a galactic tyrant who can destroy an entire planet at his weakest displayed?
@@elevate07 They have to be that powerful in order to keep the bears in check. They don't have any time to use their power to fix the world, or else the bears would get out.
What absolute disrespect towards a character that was at one point a complete badass. I still believe he's the strongest human in the series, no fucking way Krillin is stronger than him. Ridiculous and absolute bullshit how Toriyama treats Tien like he's nothing. One of the hardest working characters in the entire series since the beginning, training every single day and doesn't have shit to show for it. This man would go against villains he damn well knew he was no match for, taking on King Piccolo by himself, fighting Nappa even after chopping off his hand and blasting Cell into oblivion. Even if his attacks weren't enough he gave it his all until the very end going out like a true warrior. And just what the fuck happened to his physique in Super? He was jacked in dbz and even in og db, one of the biggest dudes. It's like Toriyama tried his damn hardest to make him look weaker in every possible way imaginable smh. Tien will always be the man and have my respect - without a doubt the most focused, disciplined, and stoic character. A true role model
Lol execpt in the manga tien doesn't even fight nappa he gets basically one shotted. Once tien became good he had no good moment except for holding down cell. Thats one time.... He got his arm punched off then kicked then he did an attack that did nothing then died. Lol he died like a scrub to nappa. His cool nappa fight is anime filler in the manga he didn't even throw a punch at nappa. Its been the standard since early DB that new characters are stronger then the old. For example yajirobi when introduce was goku equal and was able to easily beat a piccolo child scaling him way above tien. Yajirobi was by far the strongest human when introduced. And was a genius as he got the strong on his own with no formal training. One arc later he is a coward and can't fight. Also Krillian is stronger. He got a mcguffin power up normally reserved for main characters once. Remember training barely gets you stronger you need some kind of power up. Transformation, zenki boost, unlock hidden potential, special mcguffin training (gravity room, time chamber) etc. Humans get none of these ever EXCEPT the one time krillian got a mcguffin power up (potential unlock) so he could stay relevant otherwise he would be killed by fodder in the namek ark. Krillian needed to get stronger so the villians could beat him up to show how strong they are.
@@Alexander-the-Mediocre It's genuinely bullshit that Tien and Chiaotzu died and didn't even break Nappa's armor. Enraged Toddler Gohan was weaker than each of them and could at least damage the armor. Also, Krillin's BS powerful was way back on Namek and wasn't even enough to be a threat to one of the Ginyus. Hell, even with it, he probably couldn't even take out Kiwi, let alone Dodoria or Zarbon.
@@InfernosReaper lol nope tien was just that weak. He would also loss to kiwis easily. Krillian hurt 2nd form freeza. Power levels are very inconsistent bit krillian has much better feats then tien and the power up is the only explanation. Fan head cannon is that it made him stronger slowly as he couldnt hit the ginyu but could hurt freeza
@@Alexander-the-Mediocre in the Toriyama-approved filler, Tien beat *2* Ginyu force members, when Krillin and Gohan *combined* couldn't even beat *one*
@@InfernosReaper unless you can give me a source that filler is cannon I don't believe it cause it breaks power level as bad as super. No way tien goes from power level less then 2k to over 50k when goku only got to 5 -6k not included kaioken. Also since you care about Toriyama approved content that mean you believe the data book which put krillian at 70k by the freiza fight. Toriyama contradicts dragon ball multiple times that's why no one takes him that seriously. He said super sayian is a 10x multipler lol.
Can we also talk about how different Tien's size is? In the Cell arc Tien was the biggest dude; he wasn't the stongest but the biggest, but now he is a super skinny tiny dude?
I mean yeah the artstyle itself changes but that doesn't excuse the massive body type change that happens. It's important not to forget that Tien wasn't originally a huge guy. He became much bigger after the time skip that is where the anime changed from Dragon Ball to Dragon Ball Z, this was explained with his intense training. Tien from that point onwards was the biggest guy. He was the second tallest, second to Piccolo, and he had the largest muscle mass. Sure that "everybody is cut" artstyle was prevalent and modern artstyle doesn't do the whole "everyone is cut" thing but that doesn't excuse his physical size changing. It explains why he wears more clothes, but not why his body has shrunk massively.
Thats how it goes,OG dragonball was more of a gag manga/anime in the beggining which is why Goku was chubby because of the artstyle that went along with it and by extension Tien who was part of the show as well. Then dbz came,the artstyle changed again because of the tone change that came along with(went from a gag anime to action anime)it,Goku went from a chubby kid to a buff Adult,so yet again by extension Tien changed as well and became more muscular. Those were the 80s,now the current artstyle for the anime is very commonplace which is not made up of buff dudes with 0 fat. The bigger muscles were part of the artstyle(most 80's anime/manga used)so now that in dragonball's modern reincarnation,Tien and everyone else seems to have lost a lot of muscle by default.
@FaZe Gohan Actually piccolo should have easily defeated those idiot henchmen and fought frieza final form toe to toe but according to Toei and Toriyama, everyone who is a non Saiyan gets shitted on so piccolo couldn't even stand up to a guy who was a 100 times weaker than him
@FaZe Gohan Don't forget krillin because he too gets enough spotlight in super like when he stood up against ssb Goku and it was bs. The one who gets fully shitted on is Tien and this video provides every single point about it
@FaZe Gohan Yamcha being made weaker and Roshi getting a huge power up is all because of us "Dragonball fans". Everyone marked Yamcha as a weakling the moment he died against the saibamen because majority of them started with z.Toriyama decided to go with it and made Yamcha into his tfs version.
@ that's nothing new. The Kai's, Whis and others have all stated gokus personality is why people start fighting with him. Vegeta, buu, tein, yamcha, piccolo, 17, 18.. the list goes on. The anime was NEVER serious unless it involved a current fight. Every single fight that took place from DB to super all have comic relief involved.
Fun fact: Tien Shin Han (天津飯) literally means Tian Jin, a Chinese city (Tien Shin in Japanese pronunciation) and meal/rice (Han). So his name means the cuisine from the Chinese city Tian Jin. His 3rd eye must have been inspired by the Chinese mythological god Erlang Shen (二郎神) who has a 3rd magical eye and famously beats Sun Wukong (Son Goku in Japanese) the Monkey King in the classic Chinese novel Journey to the West. Chiao Tzu literally means dumplings (餃子). Also they both wear the Qi Pao, a Chinese dress influenced by the Manchus post the Qing Dynasty (1644 - 1911). It's clear Toriyama pictures both of them as characters with Chinese origins, like Krillin, a Shaolin monk, and Goku's grandfather.
Tien and Chiaotzu have been my favorite characters since I used to catch Dragon Ball on tv before school at 5 in the morning lmao. I would love, more than anything, to get a prequel series of them before they met Goku, showing off their adventures and training!
It really does make me upset how poorly Toriyama decided to write Tien in DBZ and after. He deserves a lot more respect being the embodiment of discipline, perseverance, loyalty and honor. The man goes and faces enemies 100x stronger than him without any hesitation. He trains pretty much everyday of his life and tries his hardest to help out when needed. Despite getting his ass kicked over and over again because the writers decided to make every new enemy insanely strong by default, he never stops training or showing up to help. Hell, he is the only one from the DB humans who has never quit as a Martial Artist/Z-Fighter (Krillin, Yamcha, Chiaotzu and Roshi all did at one point because they knew they couldn’t keep up with the saiyans), and he still gets treated like the weakest of the weak. Tien was and is still one of my favorite characters in DBZ and I really hope that they do him justice at some point in the future.
One of the best rants on this show that I've seen. This isn't just about Tien, it's about how characters in general are typically handled, they're either shelved into obscurity or as you said, given that Toriyama hand job. As for off screen power ups, Laughing Stock Media touched upon this by talking about how important training montages were for character development.
Krillin: Gave up training and is weak enough for bullets to hurt him. Literally weaker than he was in early Dragonball. Then he goes on one adventure with Goku and is super strong again. He even beats Gohan in a sparring match via ring out. Tien: Has never stopped training throughout his entire life and was always the strongest human in Dragonball and Dragonball Z. Is currently weaker than Roshi, an old man who retired from fighting in Dragonball. Tien has always been my favorite human character simply because he's the most serious about being a fighter. What kind of message is that by making him weaker than Krillin and Roshi? Fuck hard work because either you're lucky or you're not?
I don’t think it’s ever implied Roshi is stronger than Tien Shinhan at any point in Super. As for Krillin, I think his potential has always been higher than Tien’s so when he does put his mind to it he can outdo him. While I do agree that Tien is a very hardworking individual he might not have the potential Krillin does. Besides after a certain point in DBZ Tien wasn’t stronger than Krillin anymore (after the Grand Elder awakened his power)
@Conrad Kujur Tien is also a master, he literally took over the crane school rivalling the turtle school (master roshis school) and was more successful. Tien has all the qualifications to be a top tier fighter, probably stronger than Piccolo and definitely stronger than krillen. Dragon ball super completely gutted him both as a character and as a fighter. I honestly think toriyama just forgot about Tien after all the years after dbz.
It pisses me off that the krillin is the supposed "strongest human" who has trained at most 24 hrs since the cell saga, instead of tien who has never stopped training in his life and was originally leagues stronger than krillin
They think like that after a that episode of DBZ when namekian chief awakened all of the hidden potential in krillin - something what Tien never had a chance to achieve. Of course, he have his own 4 handed tranformation-boost like skill, but the key here is a character of a power gaining, not a power itself. Krillan get that power from the help of a alien, what was a powerfull boost both in story and on the screen, when Tien get power from "nonearthlings" just by training on the King Kai planet when he was dead after the saiyan saga. He reached the level of base sayian, but it wasn't showed effective by the movie. It was strong in the story, but lame on the screen.
Thank you. That is the part that frustrates me about Krillin. In the anime he has come out of retirement like three times now, but he's somehow still stronger than Tien. Gohan stopped training for years and suffered a larger power drop than Krillin.
i stopped watching super from episode 80, and even then i didnt paid much attention to the other things and skipped the mindless af filler. Did yamcha got toriyama handjob also? i doubt it lol
Tien's humiliation started in DB when Goku had to save him from Drum. He was the second strongest fighter, but couldn't even defeat King Piccolo's henchson. Then he got replaced by Piccolo Jr as Goku's main rival.
Goku at least got a BS power up. Yajirobe is the one who brought the real shame to Tien. Yajirobe actually killed one of Piccolo's underlings and quite easily
I think of it as Tien making a valiant last stand. Not as a humiliation. He did beat Drum and had it been 1 vs 1, he could've finished him off. Drum was already down when Tien used Mafuba on Piccolo daimao. After that, Tien came back stronger than ever. He gave Goku an epic fight in the last Budokai Tenkaichi. Enough challenge to force goku to remove his weights and figure out tien's 2 weaknesses. I think this here is more testament of how good Goku had become. Not how weak Tien is. Ofcourse, Tien deserved way better.
At least Launch got to keep her dignity. As someone who started with Z, when I saw dragon ball for the first time, Launch quickly became a favorite for me. I loved her. Then when I realized her contribution to Z was nothing but 2 filler scenes that would be confusing to anyone that hadn't seen DB, I was pissed. Now, I'm relieved. At the very least, the image I love of Launch is still in tact, because Toriyama forgot about her. I can't say the same for Tien. Tien quickly became my favorite character in DB, and had one moment to shine in Z. Now, he's a joke. The man has had all of his dignity ripped away and shat on at every turn so that he can make everyone else look good. Including Krillin, who, apparently became weaker than he was as a child. I remember Launch shooting him repeatedly and it did nothing, then super rolls around and he gets wounded by some nameless jobber with a gun. Tien is treated as more pathetic than THAT. And people wonder why I hate super.
Rawden I want to respond with “hey man, it’s just a show”...and I honestly feel that way, But I also don’t want to discount that you do have a genuine emotional attachment to this media (in my head I think of myself as a DBZ fan, but then I watch these videos and see comments like this and I’m like...well I guess I’m not a fan)... So I’m stuck and don’t know what to say
@@dstinnettmusic That's perfectly fine. If you enjoy it and have any emotional investment in it at all, then it's perfectly fine to see yourself as a fan of the series. I, admittedly have a soft spot for DBZ, even though I can fully admit that it's flawed. It was the first anime I ever watched and it was the reason that I've become the anime fan I am today. Going back and watching, I fully admit that's it's not as great as I remember it being in my childhood, and I fully admit that between Z and DB the original is the superior story, but it holds a lot of nostalgia value for me and led me to a lot of what I love today, so I'm willing to forgive a lot. I think that's why super feels like such a betrayal to me. It's a series that ultimately makes me question why I loved the franchise, and that's something that kinda hurts. A lot of my closest friends are people I met because of a shared interest in anime, and in some cases, specifically DBZ. Each person gets invested in something to their own degree, and if you have that reaction of it's just show and it doesn't bother you, I completely understand and respect that. This is entirely a personal issue that I have, and your own feelings for the franchise are entirely yours and no less valid because of it.
You hate Super because you don't understand how ki even works. Krillin was harmed by the bullet because he was unprepared. The same way Goku got hurt by a bullet and the same way he was hurt by a rock in Z and how he was almost killed by a laser in blue. They've shown it so many times. Even in gags, Goku allows himself to get hurt by someone like Chi Chi or Bulma. How do people still not get it? There's even the notion that things can be retconned... I don't think Toriyama would have them tanking bullets like that these days. Don't make such a constructed opinion but get a very basic thing wrong.
Tien was introduced as an incredibly skilled fighter with amazing unique techniques and a unique gimmick (his third eye), being capable of learning the khh immediately after seeing it once. He could have done so much interesting stuff, but naw, saiyans and powerlevels. I wish he would just come up with his own, optimized version of kaioken so he could canonically keep up and wreck shit again.
@@ghostbeats3214 piccolo had his moment as well... Freeza, cell, the 17... Then if we go into the buu saga he protected Gohan from deboria. GT? He took his life to stop people from abusing the dragon balls and what happened there?
Out of all the guys who died and then trained on King Kai's planet, Tenshinhan absolutely should have been able to learn the Kaioken. It even thematically fits with the Kikoho with the strain to the user's body.
This video just becomes more valid over time. Super has tried to bring back unique training and paths to power beyond just brute strength. Based on Super's logic, Tien should be stronger than beerus lol. He really did never stop training. Gohan trains for a day and becomes ssj blue level. Tien trains his whole life and you can't even tell how strong he is compared to Z characters.
It's called privilege, Toriyama only wanks off the Saiyans (Goku and Veggie, although SOMETIMES Gohan gets also a handjob). The humans have yet to actually do some progress.
An attempt was made in Super, but that ship had sailed long ago. Basically as soon as the concept of the Saiyan race with their Zenkai boosts and transformation capabilities were introduced, everyone else became obsolete fodder, whose sole purpose was to get dunked on by villains for "shock value".
To quote tfs: Tien preparing to shoot his neo tri beam to Imperfect Cell : "This is the last cool thing I'll ever do. There is no joke" "Respect" Also, thanks for the 2026 upvotes folks.
@Dalis918 I mean, they could just make a move that is visually and effectively identical, but up it's power scaling and remove the vitality cost. It's not like don't do something similar with other things all the time.
@@Lazzie_the_Psilocybe_Deity I just- no it’s fine, it’s fine…it doesn’t bother me, it doesn’t bother me…it bothers me, it bothers me a lot, AND THAT ONE’S STILL GREEN!!!
Tien should use that four arm technique and do a kikoho with all 4 arms, making a diamond shape instead of a triangle. It would be a pretty neat image.
I’ve always felt this same exact way, and Tien and Piccolo have always been my favorite characters. They always did the same thing to Chiaotzu, I know he stopped training and all that but they could’ve done so much more with him as he’s always been one of the other most unique characters with an awesome move set.
Potato Tomato this video is wrong First tien was weaker than kid goku he is straight lying kikoho doesn't work that way Kiai technique can only be used to block much weaker attacks He learned the kamehameha only he can't copy all moves krillin and goku did the kamehameha on their first try Tien is 5-6 older than krillin when he was introduced he had way more intense training Krillin was constantly closing the gap with tien throughout original dragon ball and had only a 3% difference in power in saiyan saga Watch original dragon ball Dbz kai (not dbz) from saiyan to cell saga oh yeah what about all those fillers toei kept giving tien in db and dbz just to make him look good in EVERY fight ,krillin gets non .... Tien trained with only 1 goal to surpass or maybe prepare for a new threat all of which he dropped in cell saga he said that himself he now has a job Toriyama said only piccolo vegeta and goku train all the time he doesn't train all the time
fullmetal Tien was not weaker than kid Goku, they were even in power. Tien could have killed him but he chose not to. And yes, Ki Ko Ho DOES work that way. It is a technique where the power level output is huge. How else would it be able to rag doll someone with a power level in the hundred millions like Cell? He can copy moves to an extent. He learned a full power Kamehameha just by seeing it, and he even learned the Mafuba(Evil Containment Wave) in one day. It took Master Roshi a lifetime to learn that technique and even said that the techniques requires many years to learn. Tien learned in one day. Tien is a prodigy. He can’t copy every move instantly but he has the potential to learn almost any move. Tien was ALWAYS stronger than Krillin since his introduction into the series. He was leagues ahead Krillin throughout the entirety of the original Dragon Ball and was still stronger in the Saiyan saga. Dragon Ball Kai is NOT the “original” Dragon Ball Z. Dragon Ball Kai is basically a re-dub of Dragon Ball Z with less filler and changed dialogue from the original. You sound like a pissed off Krillin fanboy. Krillin had plenty of filler moments where he gets to look good. In Super, when he fought SSB Goku, those episodes are pure filler and they made Krillin look great, while in Tien’s filler episodes they make him look like shit.
@@cj-zp1pw , Mr.Satan is a hack fraud though, and his only real win in DBZ was in the Buu Saga, so no I don’t see how Gohan was able to teach Videl everything about Ki in a few days, but Tien isn’t able to teach an entire dojo full of people how to use Ki perfectly.
@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr well goku learned kamehameha in literally 5 seconds after he was a trained martial artist, so it makes sense videl learned ki in a couple days
@@joedanville1240 , Goku in DBZ onwards is discount Gods and Monsters Superman whereas Videl is just an ordinary female in DBZ, so I could see on why somebody like Goku or Superman could pull a kamehameha out of their own ass, but I don’t see somebody like Videl instantly learning everything Ki related in just a few days.
People have also forgotten that in DBZ, when Yamcha died again during the Buu saga, he was allowed to go train with the Kais and all the warriors from the other galaxies, like Goku did. Yamcha is ALSO supposed to be massively, massively strong when you take that into consideration; he says that he really does want to become stronger and still demonstrates a passion for fighting. He didn't even want to be resurrected again because of that. He was NOT a joke character by the end of DBZ, not in the slightest. The FANS turned him into a joke, and Toei were like "ok.jpg" so now he's a playboy baseball player for no logical reason because that's apparently the only thing everyone remembers besides that one time he was killed by a Cybaman and fisted by Gero. If Tienshinhan is supposed to be the absolute strongest human in the main cast, then Yamcha can't be far behind, but if he was put through the same training as Goku in the afterlife, then he really should've been far above him. If, you know, they actually cared about continuity.
Lol what. Yamcha was a joke in DBZ (though all humans basically are) he gets killed in the sayian saga by a scrub. Training with king Kai means nothing at best he is at 9000 power level cause he doesnt get kaioken which is nothing by the end of the namek saga. Andriod saga bulma his long time gf leaves him for his murder. And then he basically runs away the rest of the saga. He is a joke in DBZ. All humans are but he is the worst. So what if he trains with kai's at the end doesnt undo how laughably he was treated in the rest of dbz
@@forgot7en Thanks I know I'm right. Also just want to point out that in the manga yamcha never goes to the Supreme Kai planet. So according to cannon he never trains or gets stronger or regains his fighting spirt. So your continuity and yamacha being strong by the end of Z doesn't work either.
The 43rd Firedemon also he didn't want Goten nor trunks in the tournament because they're too reckless, stated in the anime, and if they went fusion, and decided to get ahead of themselves, that would probably be two more fighters down in the tournament.
Tien was my favorite in Dragonball. I was looking forward to him getting his moment to shine in the Universe Survival arc. Now I'm pissed that Toei is so apathetic toward him, yet they brought Roshi back as a form of fanservice.
24:10 Honestly, these closing thoughts really hit home what’s so depressing about Tien. He’s spent his whole life training and trying to perfect the art of combat, and yet his entire progress can be overtaken by a bunch of 7 year olds because of superior genes. He’s like Yamcha, except Yamcha has had the good sense to give up and coast out of life. Sure, he’s not the strongest man on earth, but he’s probably getting a lot of good pussy. Tien on the other hand? He’s a 50 year old virgin whose best friend is a floating Chinese vampire child and runs a failing dojo with students who can’t even use Ki (something Videl, a fucking high schooler, mastered in a lazy afternoon). Tien refusal to quit isn’t inspiring, it’s just sad. Tl;dr: quit while you’re ahead
@@L3yL1n3 Exactly, the Dragon Ball Super anime is known for having bad writting, in some cases really bad writting (Krillin matching SSJ God Blue Goku, Trunks genkisword from like 30 people killing Zamasu instead of Vegito, etc)
Yeah no way a random schoolgirl who got training from her father (who is a fraud, still a lot more stronger and faster than the average human) can have more skill than shaolin warriors (who are known to be training ever since the age of 5 in a super hardcore routine). This is just not good writing.@@MinscFromBaldursGate92
@@MinscFromBaldursGate92 And that is not a requisite for learning how to use ki. Hell, Tien was probably stronger than her when he was half her age. Goku certainly was.
I like how they said that the tournament isnt about pure strength and brute force, But the entire tournament is just people beating other people with brute force.
this video is wrong First tien was weaker than kid goku he is straight lying kikoho doesn't work that way Kiai technique can only be used to block much weaker attacks He learned the kamehameha only he can't copy all moves krillin and goku did the kamehameha on their first try Tien is 5-6 older than krillin when he was introduced he had way more intense training Krillin was constantly closing the gap with tien throughout original dragon ball and had only a 3% difference in power in saiyan saga Watch original dragon ball Dbz kai (not dbz) from saiyan to cell saga oh yeah what about all those fillers toei kept giving tien in db and dbz just to make him look good in EVERY fight ,krillin gets non .... Tien trained with only 1 goal to surpass or maybe prepare for a new threat all of which he dropped in cell saga he said that himself he now has a job Toriyama said only piccolo vegeta and goku train all the time he doesn't train all the time
Don´t you love how, whenever you critique the treatment of a character with a video like this, the croonies come out of the ground defending all the shit Toriyama farts? It happens even in this comment section: 'Krillin, Videl, and Roshi have more potential than Tien and Yamcha, therefore--' No they don´t. Potential is not a valid argument to dismiss criticism, especially when in this franchise "potential" is a transparent way to say the author is gonna wank everyone but the jobbers he hates. Don´t try to rationalize it.
Tien, Yamcha and Chaotizu r more interesting than Roshi, Krillin and Videl. Since Roshi and Krillin retired while Gohan discontinued due to wanting to be scholar there was room to focuse on Tien, Yamcha and Chaotizu but the writers prefer to make one irrelevant, turn the second strongest human into a joke and retcon the strongest human into a three eyed alien jobber. Favoritism, retcon, nerfing, sh$t writing decisions and (unearned, unoriginal, color swap) transformations being pulled out of nowhere is the downfall of this series and it made me appreciate GT for leaving Tien, Yamcha and Chaotizu as cameo and a proper transformation that made the Sayian tail relevant plus adding to the lore.
Are you kidding, Toriyama forgets his characters. Look at Launch. He straight up forgot she existed. Tien is no exception. He has the attention span of about 6 characters at a time. Thats about it
so many people who never seen og dragonball love freeza cell buu satan gohan vegeta...believe it or not in the og tien yamcha roshi bulma are incredible characters...
He is old and he is writing a story which is already 30 years old. Why he should remember some side characters? Unlike you, he is not some crazy fanboy.
The only reason Roshi was in the tournament was for fan service he was supposed to be retired but he got a power up out of nowhere because people like him better than other characters because he is the master despite having been surpassed by all his students
no goten trunks (buu for dumb poorly explained reasons) or yamcha...but lets take tenshinhan and roshi?...makes no sense...trunks and goten are stronger than roshi and tenshinhan...easily...its not even close..they can go ssj
@@razkable gotenks would get eliminated by the stupidest foe for one. Their fusion wouldn't last enough for the tournament so a immediate disqualification. Plus roshi and tien have a better moveset and wide array of attacks that work on certain opponents in a tournament like this while goten and trunks literally have kamehame and buster cannon that's all :/ They may be more powerful but powr isn't everything in this type of tournament
@@toastyzzz6881 you say at that but every fight is just a power clash theres barley any team fights.(referring to your point about the tournament being less power based by the way)
In DBZ Budokai 3, Tien’s Ultimate Attack version of Kikoho was unique in that if you lose the Ultimate Attack mini game, it’ll actually be more powerful than if you win the mini game. I always thought that was really cool.
The whole Dragon Ball was based on the book Journey to the West (from China). Goku was based on the monkey king who defied the gods and smashed heaven. Tien was the three-eyed god who stopped the monkey King after a long fight. They were pretty much on par with the three-eyed god had a slight edge. Yes, I remember Tien first showed up as a villain in DB, and he broke Yamaha's leg. Fought Roshi to a standstill but Roshi gave up after a long fight. Then he won the tournament after defeating Goku. He was able to copy Kamekameha after just saw it once. Now he is just a shitty character who is completely useless and totally forgot most of his own moves and abilities. Sad indeed...
Imagine if they allowed Tien to be as useful as he was before. Disabling enemy attacks, copying useful moves, maybe a kamehameha with the combined strength of Goku, Gohan, Krillin, Tien, and Yamcha ... He can still be great, the writers just need to utilize him (Team Four Star certainly would).
This is the most accurate and amusing run down on Tien I have ever seen. I particularly loved the point about Gohan only training for five years and yet he is so powerful, while Tien trained for 50 and sucks.
Gohan is a half saiyan and naturally has a bullshit power boost as the saiyans do. I have 0 issue with Gohan being stronger than Tien, but Krillin has little excuse...
Piccolo: "I see you've increased your power as well. Good." Krillin: "I know, isn't it great, I- " Piccolo: "You're almost as strong as Gohan now!" Krillin: "What!? But... but he's only 5!" Gohan: "It's because I'm a Saiyan!" Krillin: "Well that seems... incredibly unfair..."
There's a clear explanation about how Krillin got his power boost offscreen... It's called 18 and she's an expert at training Krillin's... "Endurance..."
Rei There is no reason to compare the two when they both went out pathetically. It’s like when people say “At least Krillin was caught off guard, while Tien had his most powerful attack tanked.” At this point Tien fans and Krillin fans are both livid over their faves’ treatment in the manga and should take this as an opportunity to come together and say “Our faves are both shat on consistently, and that’s ridiculous.”
I view Tien as the tale of one man's odyssey through a life that ordains he suffer more than anyone. Yet he persists, continues despite all the suffering, and never gives up. I mean, he is the ONLY Z fighter who even had the imperative to pass on their knowledge of martial arts. All the rest just constantly screw off to have their own personal needs met. That Chinese Redhead of the cast is literally trying to turn other regular humans into something that can stand up to the insane inter-dimensional threats constantly entangling Earth. Screw that, only the World's Strongest deserve mastery. But Tien never gives up, and no matter how hard it tries, the Universe just cannot destroy Tienshenhan. Tien's story perspective turns all the Saiyans into elitist arseholes and the world, a cruel and uncaring crucible of pain to overcome. Thus is Third Eye opened. Thus is Enlightenment perceived, but not revealed.
Tfw you realize that shitty writing is actually quite depressing because it shows us the possiblity of good things and then rips it out and destroys it for no real reason
Dajal The term for those villains is "Hubris", referring to pride before the fall. Historically it had been used in Greek legends to display the folly of man, but now it's used by every retarded anime writer to give the same personality to their important characters and artificially extend a fight. It's one thing if just the villains are doing it, but you know it's a problem when all the heroes are too (not to mention it's an intrinsic part of the Saiyan race).
Dajal To be fair, in Zamasu's case, I could see him hating mortals enough to want to kill them with his own hands and making them suffer, rather than just doing it the easy way and either wishing for them to be killed or just not holding back. I don't think that was ever clarified, though.
its not unbelievable for him to have that thought proccess of "i want to do it with my own hands" but it becomes ridiculous when he basically makes the task impossible for himself by being such a huge moron. he could sterilize the entire earth in a day tops but he spends his time walking through exploding buildings and playing around with a clearly weaker trunks and a bunch of humans he can sense drinks tea at some abandon resort out in the open so his enemies can make pot shots at him goku, trunks and vegeta lose to him like 3 times in a row and lets them escape every time, lets fuckin bulma distract him instead of obliterating her immediately and then he'll outright abandon his best attacks just to look cool i guess, whatever happened to that space-time shadow clone thing he had goin? sure would have been useful during the later half of the third round. too bad he traded it for a knockoff susanoo.
Do you realize the characters that have the most interesting techniques are the weakest? Kikoho, kienzan, solar flare, that kage bunshin thing, the energy ball from Yamcha, the Dispersion Kamehameha... Seems like the main characters need to have some stupid named energy blast, because then Tori can make blast clashes.
Eh, Yamcha's Sokidan is pretty shitty, you need to stand still for a technique that is not even that strong. Kienzan is like the strongest technique in the series yet no one else wanted to use it for some reason.
You nailed it. In a series where basically everyone's shtick is, "Fly fast, punch fast, shoot lasers," Tien's one of the few characters with actually interesting powers. Him and Piccolo.
He was one of the strongest in the original dragon ball, and was relevant until the buu saga smh. Why would they make Krillin perform better than Tien, if Krillin had 10 years less of training. What even is that
Goku thinking of fighters to bring for the Tournament and he forgot the guy that kicked literally Roshis, Yamchas and his ass in one of the worlds martial arts tournaments back to back to back....
![Power Levels are Stupid [DBG #2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uPwVuC3YOrc/mqdefault.jpg)
![Power Levels are Stupid [DBG #2]](/img/tr.png)
Tien: The only person that can lose muscle, skill, power level and attacks from training
You made my day
fitness plateaus be hitting different for tien
So Gohan is the saiyan version of Tien
Yeah tien in dragonball z is ripped
@@Danphiroud Gohan is training inside videl
The reason team four star keeps getting copyright strikes is because they treat tien right. Change my mind
There's also all the copyright infringement.
codafett Which don’t apply as DBZA is a parody. It doesn’t take full DBZ episodes, in fact it splices like 5 eps in one, missing large chunks. And even then, the characters, their motivations, their relationships, & the story itself are completely different as it is a comedic parody of DBZ.
Damn you right
@@codafett Do some research, it falls under fair use.
EXACTLY✅💯
Tien who has been training nonstop since the original Dragon Ball gets absolutely nothing, no new moves, no power ups, no good fights, and no respect. All because he isn't a Saiyan, Android, or Gokus best friend.
He actively loses moves, actually.
@@charger9912 shit he could at least learn the kaioken
He’s canon the best martial artist
And he's a china character,,
By the fucking way i have to add, Fucking Krillin buffed Taiyo Ken, a Tien technique, first than Tien himself. Honestly Tien can make something stupid like omnidirectional Kikoho
You either die a villain, or live long enough to see yourself become a forgettable ally.
crazy how accurate that is. krillin, yamcha, tien, androids, and buu have met this fate
@@TTVMaldrix krillin was never a villain, he was a rival, and the androids are not forgettable in the slightest, especially 17
@@thegreatyami mb counted krillin as one since rival is under the antagonist type stuff
android 17 i guess did save the W in the tourney, but they tossed aside 18 like they do with most chicks in the show
@@thegreatyami saying Krillin was Goku’s rival is like saying Killua is Gon’s rival
@@melonnationxp there is such thing as a friendly rivalry
"Tien's greatest accomplishment in life is nearly dying just holding the worst form of a villain in place so Krillen could later impregnate a supermodel he was chasing"
Oh god.. Oh god he's right
Honestly, Krillin and Vegeta's actions (destroying the remote and letting Cell absorb 18) pretty much made Tien's whole stand-off against Cell pointless. So fuck them
"I DIDN'T KIKOUHOU MYSELF HALF TO DEATH SO HE COULD GET LAID!"
but second form cell is toriyama's favorite lol
+Marq FJA That should be a TFS line.
"Kikouhou fuck yourself"
Tien is like that one guy in DnD who spends all his freetime training, but is completely outclassed by the DMs girlfriend
Tien is a F2P player in a P2W world
Only the best will understand that
Straight facts
I think that his character is a really good example of 'sometimes just training alone doesn't do the job' which is very true.
He doesn't train with anybody, ever, and has so much hubris that he opens a dojo. Meanwhile, Krillin trained with Roshi and Goku while working out on the side. Piccolo trained with Gohan when he wasn't training on his own. Vegeta and Goku have Beerus, etc.
I think the only other really good example of a character getting too much fan service in this case is Roshi however, it was so well written that people don't want to bring up that unpopular of an opinion.
@@jgcapers3860 so chaiotzu doesn't exist? And since you mentioned krillin, did you notice how Super is the first time in 9 years krillin has trained and he shoots through the roof? Meanwhile Tien does nothing but train all day everyday and gets nothing? Japan just doesn't like Tien since he's china the character.
Unlike Yamcha whose failures are seen as funny/endearing. Tenshinhan's failures are just sad.
Yamcha failures are seen as endearing/funny? Lol losing your gf so she can have a kid with the man that killed you might be funny but only in the look at how absolutely pathetic this man is kind of way. Yamcha is funny because of how pathetic and sad he is. He is the butt of the joke. Funny because he is easy to mock.
@The Brick Layer that just makes it worst lol. Not sure how the orginal commenter thinks yamcha failure is endearing as he is the most pathetic character. Getting recked by the most trash villains. Treated like crap by Toriyama.
@@Alexander-the-Mediocre he went on to be a rich baseball player. I feel like he's winning out in life, it's fine. Long way for a poor desert bandit.
@@Pandaman64 First off that's headcannon. Nothing in the series shows he is rich and him playing baseball in DBZ was anime filler. So it being cannon is as questionable as him being as strong as the ginyu force on King Kai planet. And even after the sayian saga there is nothing that even shows he still playing baseball.
Yamcha is treated like crap. The rich baseball player headcannon is just so people feel better about him or so they can say things like tien has it worst then yamcha.
@@Alexander-the-Mediocre at the beginning of z, he basically gets to pressure the team owner to pay him extra to win games, since even yamcha has a crazy level compared to regular guys. It was made clear he didn't like it, and preferred fighting. But it's not a bad life.
I also wish toriyama would stop getting bored of his toys and maybe actually write something worth a damn for the human characters. But it's not an awful life for yamyams.
He’s literally the only character in the whole show that doesn’t get any stronger even tho he doesn’t stop training 🙄🙄
He was so cool in the og series bruh
Yeah, and it's not like he's some mediocre fighter like Yamcha. The dude was a prodigy and invented moves would go on to steal
@InfernosReaper Hey, put some respect on Yamcha's name. He was the first guy to combine ki into his body for an attack and was a prodigal fighter that learned Roshi's techniques real quick. Yeah, after he got Yamcha'd he got shafted by the series forever, but he used to be him for like 10 episodes.
@@InfernosReaper wtf Yamcha is cool
@@HobDogAs a person, sure, but as a fighter, he was the *first* one thrown under the bus and left to rot.
Ever since his leg was broken by Tien, it was all downhill from there.
"The Tournament of Power won't be just based on brute force"
Ironic.
Haha Jiren go brr
Toriyama: Power levels are not the be all end all factor in a fight.
Also Toriyama: Jiren is STRONG and Goku needs STRONGER.
@@MinscFromBaldursGate92 Also Toriyama:
Toppo Strong?
Vegeta STRONGER 😈
You do realise Vegeta suicide level even on a lower level, is so fucking Powerful?
@@MinscFromBaldursGate92 honestly he almost went in the right direction, and that was ultra instinct -sign-
Goku wasn't stronger than Jiren, but he was faster and was dodging his attacks. That was a step in the right direction and ultra instinct even came with a drawback.
Mastered came along and ruined it but boy did it mess him up.
But... Let's not forget Super's ending. It was the power of trust, and not brute strength, that won the tournament.
He’s the only serious character in the show, that’s the joke.
piccolo?
@@Phoenix-jd4yf
(Piccolo dressed in Yoshi)
@@Phoenix-jd4yf Piccolo is the pseudo serious character turned to babysitter as a joke
Trunks?
@@shaunytheboi3834 his timeline was so fucked up that he had to left to a new one and live with his doppelganger, isn't that funny?
Xd
-Four Arms
-Multiply
-Solar Flare
-Third Eye
-Years of training and dedication
-Psychic
-Combo Moves
-Energy Cancellation
-Kikoho
-Bald
These are reasons why Tien is great.
-Bald
-Launch Wants to Bone Tien
^^^The real reason why plague loves Tien
He's not psychic, Chaiotzu is.
Cause remember, Tien was introduced as a dirty cheater.
@@TheLikenessOfNormal I meant in a spiritual sense.
@@TheLikenessOfNormal He's psychic. Remember him talking with Chaiotzu telepathically? I'm pretty sure it's his third eye that allowed that. I can't recall, but I'm pretty sure he had a psychic stun move... I know he had a push of psychic energy as a knock back attack with one hand, where he didn't fire a ki-blast. It was more like propulsion in cinematic view, but that was also a psychic move against the Saibaman he was fighting. And his Ki Akeshi literally uses psychic powers to cancel out ki-blasts. More than certain Tenshinhan is psychic as well, not just Chaiotzu.
Tien isn't even a full human. His character is also descended from an alien race.
Roshi's characterization in the Tien episode bothers me.
Roshi is a master who has dedicated three hundred years to the martial arts, so being invited to Tien's dojo as an honorary master _should_ matter to him.
And on top of that, the closer you look at the history and connections between them and their stories, the more heartbreaking it becomes when Roshi acts like a tired hanger on at a party.
Fr It was Roshi who made Tien rethink about his evil deeds
@@whoistobby296
Exactly!
It's a shame how much wasted potential there was with tien and the dojo. He's been reduced to the guy that kikohos before losing
@@jezzaboi2168im sad that he doesn't even use dodon pa
Roshi is awesome and Plague knows that. Given the context of everything by putting Roshi on a pedestal we should be equally if not more so be aggravated Tien is being downplayed and completely dismissed. It isnt to discredit Roshi it is to highlight that fact. Yes Roshis contribution to martial arts is huge and we all love that, but the poorly written story is only doing dumb shit like Roshi being a bored perv not teaching martial arts. Power scale wise Roshi has not been useful since pre-Goku loses to Tien. We can talk about Yajirobes merits as well he literally ate Piccollos brother. But Yajirobe is still comparatively a harmless fly compared to Tien, tien is Ginyu level fighting capacity minimum (so is yamcha by the way >,>). Anyways yea if were bitch slapping Tien into nothingness, then to fluff Krillin and Roshi is painfully and obviously nonsensical...
Just remember, Chiaotzu got it even worse. In Dragonball he was an actual martial artist and had actually powerful techniques and psychic powers, and Krillin only even managed to beat him by tricking him with a maths question and he was assumed to be strong enough to kill Goku and Tien using his psychic abilities alone.
No, Tien got it much worse because he went from the strongest human (or even character, at the time) who was all that, to a complete weak nobody with a side of nothing
@@Joz_amu i cri everi tim :(
Chiaotzu gets a win in the Moro arc while Tien just catches the L.
@@dexter111344 and then every human gets an L and have to be saved by Goku
@@dexter111344 The entire Moro arc was schizophrenic, scatter brained schlock. Almost every character gets a moment to shine, but then get conveniently tossed to the side when Moro pulls a Perfect Cell and absorbs a bio-android then Goku gets to have the spotlight again.
Tien in dragonball: when you fight the boss
Tien in dragonball Z/Super: when you unlock him as a playable character
You forgot to say when his stats are terrible so you never use him in the campaign, if only to grind everyone's level to 99 for an achievement.
It really do be like that.
You fuse the Minotaur but it never even gets the Labrys Strike it wrecked you with 30 times.
whats wrong with z tien before the buu arc he was good but not great
@@ultralevixz5912 tien does one thing in Z. Hold down cell for a min. Humans in general do nothing in Z. Krillian who in namek gets a bs power up normally reserved for sayian making him by far the strongest human is just so he doesn't instantly die and can get beat up to show how strong the villains are. And so goku can turn super sayian. Z treats humans like crap and most moments when they do something in the anime its filler. Cool moment of tien fighting nappa. Filler. Humans fighting ginyu force on planet kai. Stupid filler. Humans training in the sayian saga. Filler. Yamcha not being a loser and having a baseball career. Filler.
in z he uses his Kikoho on semi perfect cell and almost kills him so tien is still the boss till super
"I don't know why japan hates tien."
"Tien is China the character." You puzzled it out mate.
d tczyk but DragonBall has a lot of roots in Chinese mythology so that can’t really be it
Krillin is a shaolin monk.
So’s Goku’s wife and…
Now that I think about it, considering how she’s portrayed many times you may be onto something…
Goku is literally based on china mythology......
What yall on the main character goku is literally a Chinese mythological creature so stop your shitty assumptions
Tien is just like Rock Lee from Naruto. Introduced early in the original series to be a rival to main cast, to then over time be phased out and forgotten about. Becoming a side character that does nothing.
That's every side character in DB. Kirllian was his rival, then tien was his rival, then yajirobi was goku equal (stronger then tien but never a rival cause piccolo was the rival right after), then piccolo is his rival. Then finally they stopped when Vegita showed up.
That’s funny ‘cause Rock Lee is based on Bruce Lee who’s Chinese. Just adds to plague’s point 😂
@@Alexander-the-Mediocre Yajirobe was *stronger* than Goku when introduced. Then Goku quickly surpassed him
@@InfernosReaperno they are equal in their fight neither is ahead before they are interrupted. But my point is that every new person is stronger then the last and tien being left behind isnt special or racist just bad writting.
@@Alexander-the-Mediocre Yajirobe easily beat an opponent Goku struggled with. *That* was his introduction...
Don't forget Krillin stole his Solar Flare, to the point where Krillin Got Solar Flare 100x, while tien, THE GUY WHO CREATED THE MOVE, Gets the shaft.
The Nuka-Cola Man The Roshi students excel at stealing other peoples techniques and then claiming they did it first.
slayertakim1
They *NEVER* claimed they did it first, their fans only think that because people see the ones who do it the most as the original user when that's a fallacy.
Zarama Gexcior,
THANK YOU.
Tenshinhan learned solarflare
Its not his
He introduced that move
this video is wrong
First tien was weaker than kid goku he is straight lying kikoho doesn't work that way
Kiai technique can only be used to block much weaker attacks
He learned the kamehameha only he can't copy all moves krillin and goku did the kamehameha on their first try
Tien is 5-6 older than krillin when he was introduced he had way more intense training
Krillin was constantly closing the gap with tien throughout original dragon ball and had only a 3% difference in power in saiyan saga
Watch original dragon ball
Dbz kai (not dbz) from saiyan to cell saga
oh yeah what about all those fillers toei kept giving tien in db and dbz just to make him look good in EVERY fight ,krillin gets non ....
Tien trained with only 1 goal to surpass or maybe prepare for a new threat all of which he dropped in cell saga he said that himself he now has a job
Toriyama said only piccolo vegeta and goku train all the time
he doesn't train all the time
Is it wrong of me that DBZ: abridged is slowly replacing my head canon simply because they treat the characters better.
Benjamin Rosiek no, it's not...
Benjamin Rosiek i know what u mean
DBZ: abridged is far superior in my mind. I never had an emotional investment in any of the characters in the original. It was fun to watch but it was largely just fights. I legit teared up when chiaotzu and Tien died and Kami merged with Piccolo.
Benjamin Rosiek Yeah I see your point, matter fact abridged Tien and Vegeta relationship is my favorite relationship in all of anime.
chuk5678 "you know he can kill you right?" "At this point, it's a game. If he gives in, I win. And he knows that"
"This Tournament isn't about pure strength" *Enters Jiren*
And thats the problem with the tournament, it tried to be more than just who had the biggest number, but it ultimately bowed down to the toriyama formula of having the villains have bigger numbers than the previous one and then focusing the arc around who has the biggest number by throwing in new forms.
Lol except strength in DB isn’t really strength it’s just numbers
And he lost to teamwork.....that's literally the point
@@thebossmana except that only happens because the protagonist got infinite plot armor. Jiren literally gave no fuck till like 10 mins left in the tournament when he can blitz and end every single participant by himself. He just sit around doing no shit but then he suddenly get super motivated and must not lose at all. This guy had the worst writing of any character ever.
Xx_savage fartz_xX I don’t think you know what power is, the lose definition of power is the combination of speed and strength so not just strenght
I watched DB in chronological order, so when Tien and Chiaotzu were introduced in Dragon Ball I thought they were so cool. They were the biggest threat Goku had faced at that point, and were actually intimidating.
And now Tien is trashed and Chiaotzu is basically forgotten.
The same goes for Yamcha. His Wolf Fang Fist was always so cool
@@torinlupo807 I never mentioned China
@@ArcticSounds fuck wrong comment
@@torinlupo807 why did you bring up China, he didn't even type anything related to it ?
@@torinlupo807 Did your momma drop you repeatedly on the head as a baby or something?
@@AK-vj9uu Tien Shinhan is very clearly supposed to be chinese? His last name is based off a chinese rice dish
Fun Fact: Tien/Choutzu were the first characters to fly using Ki in Dragon Ball because they were that skilled. They called it Skywalking...then everybody else somehow magically learned how to fly.
Moses i know right
Moses tien need some love please !!!!
Everyone but Roshi and I find that ridiculous. How come a master like him cannot fly.
PKJ 214 master roshi probably could learn how to fly easily but he won't use it because the flying technique was invented by his rival.
@@antoineclark3839 No it wasn't.
I really wish someone would translate this video into Japanese and post on all the top Japanese anime forums. And send it to Toei too.
this^
With a big caption for the "That's a Toriyama Hand job" in English and japanese
Definitely so then there might be a chance for toriyama to see it and then fix tenshinhan character and give him ultra instinct because he deserves it for training all of his life.
And then they copyright strike Plague for using footage of Dragon Ball.
Does this sound like the kind of informative, constructive and fair criticism one would send to executives?
You remember when the Kikoho was basically invisible, and it hit pretty much the moment it was fired?
I miss that.
and that was a normal Kikoho, not even the 'Shin Kikoho'
I don't remember that move ever actually destroyong anything. And I'm not trying to be funny. I remember him hitting Cell with it and it being effective bit it didn't destroy anything but the ground around him.
That's sorta what I meant when I said "destroyed its target the moment it was fired." It never did much to Ten's opponents, but once it was fired, there was suddenly a square hole in the ground it _did_ hit.
Maybe "it hit the moment it was fired" would be better wording.
@@playahwon And how the image of his opponent would get magnified in between his hands before he fired. Man, Tien was such a cool character.
That move allowed him to pin fucking cell, when tien was an ant compared to him, yeah i miss that..
I remember thinking, having seen the set-up with Harmira (the "green duck" in a speedo) being an unseen sniper, that the writers of Super were going to draw on Tenshinhan's past as an assassin and have him counter-snipe using his dodonpa. Then counteract using Prum to reflect/rebound shots by escalating things with the multi-form technique and essentially becoming his own team of snipers. I was ready for a different kind of thinking to combat this mystery sharpshooter idea.
You cannot imagine my disappointment when all four Tiens just... ran out into open terrain. And the episode wasn't even about him.
Man, you must’ve thought Madhouse or Bone studio were the ones animating the fight. Even at top shape with the highest budget they’ve ever had, Toei has never done anything this multifaceted and complex 😂
@@jcnot9712 Oh nah, they are able to throw a lot of money in some specific scenes, these mfs are billionaires, and DB and One Piece are their highest source of income.
I mean you're asking Dragon Ball to do something actually new and interesting instead of just rehashing old ideas and characters
You want... thinking? In DBZ? That isn't allowed. We accept screaming and power ups here. Not thinking.
@@wadespencer3623DBS
Yamcha: gets a quick mercy kill from a violent green bean.
Tien: gets his arm ripped off and has to watch his closest friend die for nothing.
The green bean is aggressive?
Remember when Vegeta blew himself up like Chiaztou and nothing happened to Buu, but people gave him no shit about it and still thinks hes cool?
@Xavier Thomas I dont the only time Vegeta was cool was during the original Saiyan arc and right before he starts crying like a bitch before Frieza kills him.
@@QwyattStorm pretty sure freiza killed him cause he wouldnt shut up about that goddamn legend.
@@QwyattStorm "Crying like a bitch before Frieza kill him"...was that how it came across in the English dub version? I knew the English script American version was awful but wow.
In the manga and the Japanese version, that was actually a moving moment where Vegeta let go of his own ego and pride and stop pretending to not give a shit, and shown his vulnerability as a person and truly wished Goku to defeat Frieza for the sake of avenging the Saiyan race.
Is anybody else bothered by the fact that gohan taught Hercule's daughter ki control enough that she learned to fly, but Tien, a man who has lived longer, fought longer, and was arguably the best z fighter behind goku, could not train the nameless students 😐
The writers were smoking crack when they wrote the script.
@@gauntlet8026 Makes sense, although it still hurts to watch my favorite z-fighter get done dirty.
Super has terrible writing. That's the problem behind everything.
They said Videl was a prodigy and probably stronger than Hercule, but, no one cares, no one gives a fuck about Videl after Gohan turned her into a fucken calm Chi-Chi. Tien is probably 2x older than Gohan, has more experience, developed a technique stronger than the Kamehame-ha (said by Master Roshi himself in the Classic Dragon Ball), was the second character to fly in the series (Chiaotzu being the first) and was a trained mercenary.
But Toriyama doesn't give a fuck about that and just make him utterly useless and a "extreme and bad" teacher because he couldn't teach HIS OWN STUDENTS how to control their ki.
They could be hopeless
Oh yes, the ranting now doesn't even come hidden as an art video, this is just straight up ranting.... I love it.
kenjikuroiwa99 which art videos does Plague rant about Super?
Well to be fair, a lot of the rant uses images and clips from the episodes, so I can see why there's no art in the background.
Chaos5338 Mostly in the dbz trifustions.
DB Trifusions and the video about staying on model where he draws Goku. Any video he's done even remotely related to Dragon Ball will have griping about Super to some extent, though the Trifusions were more focused on griping about Launch.
Agreed, Not that plaque isn't very talented as an artist, I just think his weird furry fetish, which Is very weird, is weird.
But he is incredibly good at talking about things like this.
I want Tien to just yell "SCREW IT" and then just manage to bull his way to godhood levels of power..
Well with orange piccolo being a thing, maybe another video game company is gonna grant a super form for humans
@@wardenunknown super human blue
@@optimisticwatermelon super human black
@@wardenunknown =O
@@wardenunknown God Orange Piccolo is the stupidest fucking thing, makes me wonder if the reason they named it that was to try and get people to not think fucking BEAST GOHAN wasn't a stupid idea for a powered up form of Ultimate, which also makes no fucking sense considering that Ultimate is supposed to be all of your power with no draw backs of needing to transform and waste your stamina/energy to do it so turning it into a transformation makes the entire point of it useless, let alone naming it fucking BEAST of all things.
Honestly I could be into Orange Piccolo if they just called it Dragon Piccolo or something since that makes way more sense considering where he got the form from.
"Remember when Tien could grow four arms? Yeah, that would have been useful against Nappa."
-TheActMan
Really? I didn’t know the acting male did Anime videos.
@@adarkwind4712 "The acting Male"
Sorry dude that got me 🤣
It's written "The Anime Man".
Also, nah. It wouldn't have changed that.
pikkoro can stretch his arms and become huge..could of been useful vs oozaru gohan and saving gohan from nappa without dying right?...i know its meant to be an instant reaction in the manga and the anime slows it down for us to see but he still did not have to die there or blow up the moon just to stop gohan...its so dumb...
I loved Tien Shinhan. They made him an absolute joke of a character. Let’s ignore the fact that he held Cell’s semi perfect form down with the Tri Beam. Let’s ignore how he beat Goku in the twenty second martial arts tournament. Once in my opinion, the coolest human is now a living joke.
lets also not forget that when the gang thought that goku was killed by piccolo, tien was the only hope left. that's how strong he was. lets also not forget that he was capable of doing the mafuba and survive, something that even roshi couldn't do. Yeah, it failed to work on piccolo, but it was cool nonetheless. Tien IS one of the best characters in the franchise and everyone who did watch the original series knows it.
He also held off super buu with TRI beam
He didn't got the worst. Yancha is the worst joke ever. He trained under kami and King Kai but still Roshi is better choice than him for ToP.
@@yungblade7 No, he really didn't. His Tri-beam was about as effective as a sunbed against Buu.
Rahul Sar Agreed. Yamcha was introduced as something of a prodigy. He was supposed to be the strongest human (or at least strongest potential) until he was surpassed by Krillin and he was made completely worthless by more fighters in tournaments and had his leg broken by Tien.
The only good thing he did since then was in filler episodes of Z where he fought the Ginyus on King Kai's planet and fought in other world.
@@Unethical.FandubsGames You can thank Toriyama for that....
"Oh look its Tien!! What, was Krillin busy?!"
Damn you, Cell.
*Grunts while slamming hands together and interlocking the fingers*
LMAO I remember that scene it cracked me up Everytime
Kikoho intensifies
@@racatkns9977 "Aww that's adora- SHIIIIIIIIIIII!
The amount of times I rewatched this video lol
Your points are spot on and Tien needs a lot of respect!
I thought I was the only one lmfao. I feel like I come back to this video every few months
@@fklondike me too it cracks me up and it’s so spot on 😂🤣
True this one is a gem, i come back every once in a while
Let’s be for real DBZ Abridged is the reason his character is still relevant
Facts
basically almost all 2nd villains that appeared with the main villain that never appeared again or characters that never appeared again after thier debut or usless characters (zarbon, dodoria, nappa, Nail, etc) thanks to tfs these characters that were gonna be forgotten for sure will never be thanks to tfs
Tien spamming Ki Ko Ho on Semi perfect Cell was the last cool thing he ever did.
well no because thats a fan made comedy series
@@alfa01spotivo What's your point?
See, Tien should actually be SUPER terrifying. If you remember back in Dragonball his schtick was that he could replicate ANY technique he's seen before.
He's seen Ultra Instinct, he's seen Hit's dumb Time Skip, he's seen those stupid magical girl transformations, he's seen most of Beerus' attacks... Shouldn't he be absolutely terrifying and one of the strongest characters in the show?
Toriyama forgot he made a good character
Kilo6Charlie
oh shit man, that’s actually a super good point, why isn’t he more of a main character?
i mean if krillin can be a side-main then why can’t he.
@@MaskedKittyYT Because Japan doesn't like Tien.
I think time skip and ultra instinct r a little more complicated to do then say...firing an energy wave. Just saiyan
In all honesty tein is what happens when you design a character to be a villain but then try to turn them to a good guy and you utterly fail at that. Vegeta is a good turn but we never see any screen time of him fighting or doing anything meaningful to be honest vegeta and tein are in the we don’t do anything and are basically pointless club and it honestly sucks because they are really really good characters and they could show that hard work pays off but nope just be the main character in a series and you will get just about everything handed to you. 😤Dragon ball super could have fixed the problems that DBZ created where they wrote off everybody that wasn’t an alien.
Tien: trains his whole life and get no new powers
Some random Saiyan: I got this tingle in my back…
Meanwhile two children get a pass on being super sayian because its dbz.
Meanwhile, an random saiyan gets to go from planetary to universal+ in less than an day because he somehow have more plot armor than the protagonist.
Facts Tien to me is like the human Piccolo but didn't have his potential fully utilized
Some android: I'm a park ranger.
@@oxy9524 I mean, that's his character.
Man, if they hate Tien so much, then it would be better if they just wrote him out of the story for good. There are people who like him and remember him being cool (myself included) and they don't enjoy watching him being disrespeced for no reason other than shitty writing. He was introduced as a martial arts prodigy with great set of skills and mental discipline. Since fighting is basicly all he does in his life, he should be amazing after all those years of training. Kinda reminds me of what they did with Luke and Han in sequel trilogy. Is it so hard to understand that nobody likes to see old heroes being old, weak and defeated? I'd rather don't see Tien at all, remember his greatest moments and wonder how he's doing now (hoping for the best) than get to see that he sucks.
Honestly it's kind of wild how Tenshinhan has such a great utility in ki negation. That would make him incredibly viable! Like, straight up, imagine if he trained in it enough that virtually any energy attack was useless if he could anticipate it. Tenshinhan would have been perfect to represent the value of not just power level or resourcefulness, but also an incredible skill pool.
Luke and Han got old though
One of the problems the franchise suffers is that, unless you can keep up with the other characters and have an awesome power up, chances are you are gonna get forgotten.
But the thing is, why not just leave him alone? Why drag such big chunk of the cast everywhere when mostly Goku, Vegetta or Gohan at best are gonna do most of the important stuff?
team fourstar likes Tien...
Khelekmir
They love him
Also he is the only serius character in the series.
Ashly Medina
And he knows that
team fourstar's Vegeta hates Tien...
Fuck super saiyans
Fuck androids
AND FUCK YOU!!!
SHIEN KIKOHO
Cell : So I'm a hair's breadth from perfection and then triclop shows up and decides : "I'm just gonna turn triangles into fucking squares" !
TIENS ERECTION WAS READY TO GO
NOT A HAND IN SIGHT
*NOT A HAND IN SHIGHT TORIYAMA SAN*
svdd sosa that's because Launch was written out so he couldn't get the handjob if he tried.
@@MonolJibberish And even still he didn't care about her that much.
Tien being weaker than Roshi and Krillin is just disrespectful, Roshi retired from martial arts and Krillin stopped training and got so weak that fucking bullets could hit him, Tien was training all the time but Roshi's "secret training" (probably masturbating 24/7) made him even stronger.
Not to mention that they spend so much time establishing that "In Tournament of Power strategy will be important and you can't win with raw power alone" but in the end it came down to raw power and fighters who use "strategy" only took down a bunch of weaklings before getting knocked off.
>Bullets can hurt him he's weak
>Super literally has SSB Goku get shot in the back by a laser ring that almost kills him because he wasn't prepared
Not knowing that you need your Ki up to block ranged weapon attacks is pretty lame.
@@TheLikenessOfNormal the 1st thing we see goku do in dragon ball is get shot in the head and it doing nothing, you know before he knew what ki even was
@@TheLikenessOfNormal This is an argument the fandom has constantly.
In Goku's first appearance, he face tanks handgun bullets. I'm not going to try and analyze the caliber, because that'd be pointless. It would kill any other person.
In later material, he can have his skin cut and penetrated, with the oft-cited excuse being that "you have to have your ki up to defend against attacks."
Here's the problem: While Goku, in episode 1 of Dragonball, had his guard up... he didn't know what ki was. In fact, when the time came for him to learn about ki, it was shown that he wasn't able to manifest it at first. So, Goku's bulletproof nature *must* have been a biological feature of saiyan anatomy. This stuff that came later wherein he can be wounded by gunshots because his "ki was down" is just forgetful writing.
@@revolrz22 Yea. SAyians naturally are stronger and more durable than humans without Ki.
@@revolrz22 Well we know for a fact that toriyama didn't plan out his writing. But I do have a fair rebuttal to your point (in my humble opinion).
I would say that Saiyans likely have the ability to innately use their ki, which we see when Goku is able to do things like perform the kamehameha after seeing it once.
So I would say that the enhanced physical feats he's displaying would be demonstrating that he's using his ki to augment his physical abilities and thus his toughness.
Since we know those are the 2 primary features of utilizing ki with your body in battle.
So even though he doesn't know what it is doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't instinctively using it.
And Vegeta had no idea what ki was either until he realized it was just the earthling term for the power that most higher beings like he saiyans innately used.
Like how in Yu Yu Hakusho you find out why Yusuke and Kuwabara hit so hard is because they innately put their spirit power into their strikes.
I watched this video when it first came out years ago but after just finishing the Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z manga, I had to watch it again. I get so much more out of it now knowing how cool and powerful Tien was. It's so sad what they did to him. And god that line about "I guess you'll never see me again" was so brutal in the manga. Like... okay then, goodbye I guess. Only for him to come back in one scene against Boo and get instantly defeated. So depressing. No one has a sadder life than him.
Friendly reminder that in the dbs manga Tien doesn't even eliminate anyone in the tournament, so Toei was actually kind to him in comparison.
Gokuu also didn't eliminate anyone in ToP, manga version of it is far more rushed.
Tien, I think he's a bit better on the manga compared to the anime, which's not a compliment, 'cause all he did was Kikoho Frost and get eliminated, but at the very least he did something lol.
Tbf in the Manga, Toyotaro just had Kale knock out like 5 of the universes. The manga version was rushed hard by that guy.
@@Lukmendes But didn't his kikoho just make Forst laugh and call him weak? I think that just makes him look worst then him taking out some random scrub.
Lol side note no hj for krillian in the super manga he was absolutely pointless in the ToP. Tien was then to show how outclasses humans so he had a purpose a very shitty one but at least he had one.....krillian on the other hand had no point.
@@Alexander-the-Mediocre Yeah, he just did a kikoho that did nothing to Frost and got eliminated in the manga.
I do think that's an improvement, at least he's getting jobbed by a strong opponent instead of struggling against a weak one, and doesn't look like as much of a dumbass, and isn't the worst part of the manga version of it, 'cause Tien's episode from the anime is just, so bad lol.
So yeah, it's not much of a compliment regardless, he's bad in bother versions.
And yeah, Krillin was rather pointless too, he got eliminated so fast that Goku didn't even realize it until a few minutes afterwards lol.
@@TheDangerNoodle remember Toyotaro is just doing the art. And Toriyama is doing the writing
What about Chaozu ? If you look closely at the books, you'll notice Goku never ever even SPOKE to him in the entire 42 volumes. Not a single word !
MrTheebs its because chaozu isn’t real, he’s Tien’s imaginary friend
And sex toy
Mr. Perfect Cell then how did he blow nappa
That's when Tien "blew" nappa... with his "friend-sex toy"... uh, sorry, I'm going away.
now that I think of it, aside from tien and krillin, who has spoken to chiaotzu?
I can actually confirm this;
Park Rangers are incredibly powerful. Becoming a Park Ranger gives you incredible amounts of power. It isn't about training, Park Rangers are simply that powerful.
So the minute I become a park ranger, I dont need to train, I am now at a level beyond what started out being far beyond that of a galactic tyrant who can destroy an entire planet at his weakest displayed?
@@F0UR3V3R Yes.
Mother of God! Why has this been kept secret? Why doesn't the public know?
@@elevate07 They have to be that powerful in order to keep the bears in check. They don't have any time to use their power to fix the world, or else the bears would get out.
It only works if you are an overpowered android tho
What absolute disrespect towards a character that was at one point a complete badass. I still believe he's the strongest human in the series, no fucking way Krillin is stronger than him. Ridiculous and absolute bullshit how Toriyama treats Tien like he's nothing. One of the hardest working characters in the entire series since the beginning, training every single day and doesn't have shit to show for it. This man would go against villains he damn well knew he was no match for, taking on King Piccolo by himself, fighting Nappa even after chopping off his hand and blasting Cell into oblivion. Even if his attacks weren't enough he gave it his all until the very end going out like a true warrior. And just what the fuck happened to his physique in Super? He was jacked in dbz and even in og db, one of the biggest dudes. It's like Toriyama tried his damn hardest to make him look weaker in every possible way imaginable smh. Tien will always be the man and have my respect - without a doubt the most focused, disciplined, and stoic character. A true role model
Lol execpt in the manga tien doesn't even fight nappa he gets basically one shotted. Once tien became good he had no good moment except for holding down cell. Thats one time.... He got his arm punched off then kicked then he did an attack that did nothing then died. Lol he died like a scrub to nappa. His cool nappa fight is anime filler in the manga he didn't even throw a punch at nappa. Its been the standard since early DB that new characters are stronger then the old. For example yajirobi when introduce was goku equal and was able to easily beat a piccolo child scaling him way above tien. Yajirobi was by far the strongest human when introduced. And was a genius as he got the strong on his own with no formal training. One arc later he is a coward and can't fight.
Also Krillian is stronger. He got a mcguffin power up normally reserved for main characters once. Remember training barely gets you stronger you need some kind of power up. Transformation, zenki boost, unlock hidden potential, special mcguffin training (gravity room, time chamber) etc. Humans get none of these ever EXCEPT the one time krillian got a mcguffin power up (potential unlock) so he could stay relevant otherwise he would be killed by fodder in the namek ark. Krillian needed to get stronger so the villians could beat him up to show how strong they are.
@@Alexander-the-Mediocre It's genuinely bullshit that Tien and Chiaotzu died and didn't even break Nappa's armor. Enraged Toddler Gohan was weaker than each of them and could at least damage the armor.
Also, Krillin's BS powerful was way back on Namek and wasn't even enough to be a threat to one of the Ginyus. Hell, even with it, he probably couldn't even take out Kiwi, let alone Dodoria or Zarbon.
@@InfernosReaper lol nope tien was just that weak. He would also loss to kiwis easily. Krillian hurt 2nd form freeza. Power levels are very inconsistent bit krillian has much better feats then tien and the power up is the only explanation. Fan head cannon is that it made him stronger slowly as he couldnt hit the ginyu but could hurt freeza
@@Alexander-the-Mediocre in the Toriyama-approved filler, Tien beat *2* Ginyu force members, when Krillin and Gohan *combined* couldn't even beat *one*
@@InfernosReaper unless you can give me a source that filler is cannon I don't believe it cause it breaks power level as bad as super. No way tien goes from power level less then 2k to over 50k when goku only got to 5 -6k not included kaioken. Also since you care about Toriyama approved content that mean you believe the data book which put krillian at 70k by the freiza fight. Toriyama contradicts dragon ball multiple times that's why no one takes him that seriously. He said super sayian is a 10x multipler lol.
I give him a Three out of Tien.
boooooooo
Holy shit hahaha
IT'S TIME TO STOP
ROFL!
Tenfey Slow clapping. Well done.
Can we also talk about how different Tien's size is? In the Cell arc Tien was the biggest dude; he wasn't the stongest but the biggest, but now he is a super skinny tiny dude?
He also keeps his arms behind his back which he never did in the original manga.
Yeah there's a lot of garbage with the art associated with Tien in super.
Not really?
Its the difference in artstyle,in the 80's big buff dudes with muscles were a thing,even 5 year old gohan had a 6 pack.
I mean yeah the artstyle itself changes but that doesn't excuse the massive body type change that happens. It's important not to forget that Tien wasn't originally a huge guy. He became much bigger after the time skip that is where the anime changed from Dragon Ball to Dragon Ball Z, this was explained with his intense training. Tien from that point onwards was the biggest guy. He was the second tallest, second to Piccolo, and he had the largest muscle mass. Sure that "everybody is cut" artstyle was prevalent and modern artstyle doesn't do the whole "everyone is cut" thing but that doesn't excuse his physical size changing. It explains why he wears more clothes, but not why his body has shrunk massively.
Thats how it goes,OG dragonball was more of a gag manga/anime in the beggining which is why Goku was chubby because of the artstyle that went along with it and by extension Tien who was part of the show as well.
Then dbz came,the artstyle changed again because of the tone change that came along with(went from a gag anime to action anime)it,Goku went from a chubby kid to a buff Adult,so yet again by extension Tien changed as well and became more muscular.
Those were the 80s,now the current artstyle for the anime is very commonplace which is not made up of buff dudes with 0 fat.
The bigger muscles were part of the artstyle(most 80's anime/manga used)so now that in dragonball's modern reincarnation,Tien and everyone else seems to have lost a lot of muscle by default.
Piccolo actually was probably the only one to be consistent with his power level
Isn’t that because he’s toriama’s favorite or whatever?
Till cell saga tho
@FaZe Gohan Actually piccolo should have easily defeated those idiot henchmen and fought frieza final form toe to toe but according to Toei and Toriyama, everyone who is a non Saiyan gets shitted on so piccolo couldn't even stand up to a guy who was a 100 times weaker than him
@FaZe Gohan Don't forget krillin because he too gets enough spotlight in super like when he stood up against ssb Goku and it was bs.
The one who gets fully shitted on is Tien and this video provides every single point about it
@FaZe Gohan Yamcha being made weaker and Roshi getting a huge power up is all because of us "Dragonball fans". Everyone marked Yamcha as a weakling the moment he died against the saibamen because majority of them started with z.Toriyama decided to go with it and made Yamcha into his tfs version.
“He has no family he has no backstory and he has no future” 😂
I like you, Tien. You're the only serious character in the show. That's the joke.
MabusZero i didnt get it
@@cringeboi697 DBZA
Exactly, seems people still miss the joke.
@ that's nothing new. The Kai's, Whis and others have all stated gokus personality is why people start fighting with him. Vegeta, buu, tein, yamcha, piccolo, 17, 18.. the list goes on. The anime was NEVER serious unless it involved a current fight. Every single fight that took place from DB to super all have comic relief involved.
Nolo Kobo Frieza fought to preserve hos universe/empire you really think Frieza would just let himself get erased
Fun fact: Tien Shin Han (天津飯) literally means Tian Jin, a Chinese city (Tien Shin in Japanese pronunciation) and meal/rice (Han). So his name means the cuisine from the Chinese city Tian Jin. His 3rd eye must have been inspired by the Chinese mythological god Erlang Shen (二郎神) who has a 3rd magical eye and famously beats Sun Wukong (Son Goku in Japanese) the Monkey King in the classic Chinese novel Journey to the West. Chiao Tzu literally means dumplings (餃子). Also they both wear the Qi Pao, a Chinese dress influenced by the Manchus post the Qing Dynasty (1644 - 1911). It's clear Toriyama pictures both of them as characters with Chinese origins, like Krillin, a Shaolin monk, and Goku's grandfather.
Ok
nerrrrd
And the references make Goku (monkey king) losing to Tien in the original Dragon Ball all the more fitting.
Wonder who would be xinzang/tang priest cause oolongs definitely zhu baje
@@kentuckyfriedken7903 Bulma is...
The fact that this has 2.5 million views shows that people do care for Tien its Toei who hates him
I wonder if it’s only America that really cares I’m about tien’s character, and Japan doesn’t give a dam
@@TxCoby arabics too
@@equanimity92 where can I find It? I'm interested :)
Toriyama also hates Tenshinhan.
Tien and Chiaotzu have been my favorite characters since I used to catch Dragon Ball on tv before school at 5 in the morning lmao.
I would love, more than anything, to get a prequel series of them before they met Goku, showing off their adventures and training!
It really does make me upset how poorly Toriyama decided to write Tien in DBZ and after. He deserves a lot more respect being the embodiment of discipline, perseverance, loyalty and honor. The man goes and faces enemies 100x stronger than him without any hesitation. He trains pretty much everyday of his life and tries his hardest to help out when needed. Despite getting his ass kicked over and over again because the writers decided to make every new enemy insanely strong by default, he never stops training or showing up to help. Hell, he is the only one from the DB humans who has never quit as a Martial Artist/Z-Fighter (Krillin, Yamcha, Chiaotzu and Roshi all did at one point because they knew they couldn’t keep up with the saiyans), and he still gets treated like the weakest of the weak. Tien was and is still one of my favorite characters in DBZ and I really hope that they do him justice at some point in the future.
''Like that's ever going to happen.''
One of the best rants on this show that I've seen. This isn't just about Tien, it's about how characters in general are typically handled, they're either shelved into obscurity or as you said, given that Toriyama hand job. As for off screen power ups, Laughing Stock Media touched upon this by talking about how important training montages were for character development.
Krillin: Gave up training and is weak enough for bullets to hurt him. Literally weaker than he was in early Dragonball. Then he goes on one adventure with Goku and is super strong again. He even beats Gohan in a sparring match via ring out.
Tien: Has never stopped training throughout his entire life and was always the strongest human in Dragonball and Dragonball Z. Is currently weaker than Roshi, an old man who retired from fighting in Dragonball.
Tien has always been my favorite human character simply because he's the most serious about being a fighter. What kind of message is that by making him weaker than Krillin and Roshi? Fuck hard work because either you're lucky or you're not?
@@TheCrazieBoi I think it's explained in the first DB that after he achieved some sort of knowledge he got the 3 eye.....yeah
Michał Napiórkowski it’s a reference to the whole “opening your third eye” thing.
I don’t think it’s ever implied Roshi is stronger than Tien Shinhan at any point in Super.
As for Krillin, I think his potential has always been higher than Tien’s so when he does put his mind to it he can outdo him. While I do agree that Tien is a very hardworking individual he might not have the potential Krillin does. Besides after a certain point in DBZ Tien wasn’t stronger than Krillin anymore (after the Grand Elder awakened his power)
Christopher Marlowe what part? Because Krillin being stronger than Tien is a given in the series. But let’s discuss. What do you think?
@Conrad Kujur Tien is also a master, he literally took over the crane school rivalling the turtle school (master roshis school) and was more successful. Tien has all the qualifications to be a top tier fighter, probably stronger than Piccolo and definitely stronger than krillen. Dragon ball super completely gutted him both as a character and as a fighter. I honestly think toriyama just forgot about Tien after all the years after dbz.
It pisses me off that the krillin is the supposed "strongest human" who has trained at most 24 hrs since the cell saga, instead of tien who has never stopped training in his life and was originally leagues stronger than krillin
They think like that after a that episode of DBZ when namekian chief awakened all of the hidden potential in krillin - something what Tien never had a chance to achieve. Of course, he have his own 4 handed tranformation-boost like skill, but the key here is a character of a power gaining, not a power itself.
Krillan get that power from the help of a alien, what was a powerfull boost both in story and on the screen, when Tien get power from "nonearthlings" just by training on the King Kai planet when he was dead after the saiyan saga. He reached the level of base sayian, but it wasn't showed effective by the movie. It was strong in the story, but lame on the screen.
Thank you. That is the part that frustrates me about Krillin. In the anime he has come out of retirement like three times now, but he's somehow still stronger than Tien. Gohan stopped training for years and suffered a larger power drop than Krillin.
@@fianle so you mean krillin got a toriyama handjob in the frieza saga?
Only reason that Krillin is stronger is just cuz he’s Gokus best friend realistically he should be FAAAAAR behind Tien
i stopped watching super from episode 80, and even then i didnt paid much attention to the other things and skipped the mindless af filler. Did yamcha got toriyama handjob also? i doubt it lol
Tien's humiliation started in DB when Goku had to save him from Drum. He was the second strongest fighter, but couldn't even defeat King Piccolo's henchson. Then he got replaced by Piccolo Jr as Goku's main rival.
Goku at least got a BS power up. Yajirobe is the one who brought the real shame to Tien. Yajirobe actually killed one of Piccolo's underlings and quite easily
@@InfernosReaperThe one Yajirobe killed was far weaker
I think of it as Tien making a valiant last stand. Not as a humiliation. He did beat Drum and had it been 1 vs 1, he could've finished him off. Drum was already down when Tien used Mafuba on Piccolo daimao.
After that, Tien came back stronger than ever. He gave Goku an epic fight in the last Budokai Tenkaichi. Enough challenge to force goku to remove his weights and figure out tien's 2 weaknesses.
I think this here is more testament of how good Goku had become. Not how weak Tien is.
Ofcourse, Tien deserved way better.
@@xnortheast1106 How do you know that? Got a source or are you just guessing?
@@adrian_veidt The fact that Goku could just remove his weights to easily be Tien really means that Tien wasn't really challenging him enough.
I think team four star summed this up perfectly in dbza Kai when he fought cell. “This is the last cool thing I will ever do, there is no joke.”
''Respect.''
@@MinscFromBaldursGate92 He showed up against Buu once, but his Kihoho didn't do shit.
and it had no effect, he did it for 4 hours supposedly and the androids just stayed and watched
The last "cool" thing he did was survive Buu's Humanity extinction blasts.
@@desadograisedrobot515 that was a low level attack even choutsu dodged it
>hey Tien exists
at least the author remembers him, unlike a certain sneezing female
At least Launch got to keep her dignity. As someone who started with Z, when I saw dragon ball for the first time, Launch quickly became a favorite for me. I loved her. Then when I realized her contribution to Z was nothing but 2 filler scenes that would be confusing to anyone that hadn't seen DB, I was pissed. Now, I'm relieved. At the very least, the image I love of Launch is still in tact, because Toriyama forgot about her. I can't say the same for Tien. Tien quickly became my favorite character in DB, and had one moment to shine in Z. Now, he's a joke. The man has had all of his dignity ripped away and shat on at every turn so that he can make everyone else look good. Including Krillin, who, apparently became weaker than he was as a child. I remember Launch shooting him repeatedly and it did nothing, then super rolls around and he gets wounded by some nameless jobber with a gun. Tien is treated as more pathetic than THAT. And people wonder why I hate super.
Rawden I want to respond with “hey man, it’s just a show”...and I honestly feel that way,
But I also don’t want to discount that you do have a genuine emotional attachment to this media (in my head I think of myself as a DBZ fan, but then I watch these videos and see comments like this and I’m like...well I guess I’m not a fan)...
So I’m stuck and don’t know what to say
@@dstinnettmusic That's perfectly fine. If you enjoy it and have any emotional investment in it at all, then it's perfectly fine to see yourself as a fan of the series. I, admittedly have a soft spot for DBZ, even though I can fully admit that it's flawed. It was the first anime I ever watched and it was the reason that I've become the anime fan I am today. Going back and watching, I fully admit that's it's not as great as I remember it being in my childhood, and I fully admit that between Z and DB the original is the superior story, but it holds a lot of nostalgia value for me and led me to a lot of what I love today, so I'm willing to forgive a lot. I think that's why super feels like such a betrayal to me. It's a series that ultimately makes me question why I loved the franchise, and that's something that kinda hurts. A lot of my closest friends are people I met because of a shared interest in anime, and in some cases, specifically DBZ. Each person gets invested in something to their own degree, and if you have that reaction of it's just show and it doesn't bother you, I completely understand and respect that. This is entirely a personal issue that I have, and your own feelings for the franchise are entirely yours and no less valid because of it.
At least Tein was fighting with his style, name one scene where Yamcha made a claw instead of a fist
You hate Super because you don't understand how ki even works. Krillin was harmed by the bullet because he was unprepared. The same way Goku got hurt by a bullet and the same way he was hurt by a rock in Z and how he was almost killed by a laser in blue. They've shown it so many times. Even in gags, Goku allows himself to get hurt by someone like Chi Chi or Bulma.
How do people still not get it? There's even the notion that things can be retconned... I don't think Toriyama would have them tanking bullets like that these days. Don't make such a constructed opinion but get a very basic thing wrong.
Tien was introduced as an incredibly skilled fighter with amazing unique techniques and a unique gimmick (his third eye), being capable of learning the khh immediately after seeing it once. He could have done so much interesting stuff, but naw, saiyans and powerlevels.
I wish he would just come up with his own, optimized version of kaioken so he could canonically keep up and wreck shit again.
xamanto same thing for piccolo
@@ghostbeats3214 piccolo had his moment as well... Freeza, cell, the 17... Then if we go into the buu saga he protected Gohan from deboria. GT? He took his life to stop people from abusing the dragon balls and what happened there?
Michael Carlisle yes but no characters execpt goku get new hype
I agree
Out of all the guys who died and then trained on King Kai's planet, Tenshinhan absolutely should have been able to learn the Kaioken. It even thematically fits with the Kikoho with the strain to the user's body.
This video just becomes more valid over time. Super has tried to bring back unique training and paths to power beyond just brute strength. Based on Super's logic, Tien should be stronger than beerus lol. He really did never stop training. Gohan trains for a day and becomes ssj blue level. Tien trains his whole life and you can't even tell how strong he is compared to Z characters.
It's called privilege, Toriyama only wanks off the Saiyans (Goku and Veggie, although SOMETIMES Gohan gets also a handjob). The humans have yet to actually do some progress.
An attempt was made in Super, but that ship had sailed long ago. Basically as soon as the concept of the Saiyan race with their Zenkai boosts and transformation capabilities were introduced, everyone else became obsolete fodder, whose sole purpose was to get dunked on by villains for "shock value".
wtf is unique about super?
“Super has tried” how? Name one.
To quote tfs:
Tien preparing to shoot his neo tri beam to Imperfect Cell : "This is the last cool thing I'll ever do. There is no joke"
"Respect"
Also, thanks for the 2026 upvotes folks.
If only Tien only learned to use that move with no negatives.
Semi perfect cell
@neo blue realm ?
Those bastards forgot about what he did to Super )V(ajin Buu.
@Dalis918 I mean, they could just make a move that is visually and effectively identical, but up it's power scaling and remove the vitality cost. It's not like don't do something similar with other things all the time.
and then Triclops shows up and decides, "I'm just gonna turn triangles into fucking squares!"
Funny thing is that the blast is circular, making the entire thing even more ironic.
Quack
@@trenthessing8064 hello little duck.
@@TailsTheFox32 “HOW DO ALL THESE SQUARES MAKE A CIRCLE?!!”
@@Lazzie_the_Psilocybe_Deity I just- no it’s fine, it’s fine…it doesn’t bother me, it doesn’t bother me…it bothers me, it bothers me a lot, AND THAT ONE’S STILL GREEN!!!
Tien should use that four arm technique and do a kikoho with all 4 arms, making a diamond shape instead of a triangle. It would be a pretty neat image.
But if a triangle makes square holes, what would a diamond make? Circles?
Ive heard that its supposed to be a pyrimid the hole being the base and the hand sign is the tip of it
@@EURIPODES I'd think it'd be a pentagon or a hexagon
@@darkdjinniumbrage7798 I think he was referring to TeamFourStars Line "Why do all these Squares make Circles?"
Dammit I feel like a moron now
I’ve always felt this same exact way, and Tien and Piccolo have always been my favorite characters. They always did the same thing to Chiaotzu, I know he stopped training and all that but they could’ve done so much more with him as he’s always been one of the other most unique characters with an awesome move set.
chiaotzu never stop training just stop fighting
Lmao. Poor Tien. Dude is completely forgotten by the writers. He was a badass in Dragonball.
Potato Tomato this video is wrong
First tien was weaker than kid goku he is straight lying kikoho doesn't work that way
Kiai technique can only be used to block much weaker attacks
He learned the kamehameha only he can't copy all moves krillin and goku did the kamehameha on their first try
Tien is 5-6 older than krillin when he was introduced he had way more intense training
Krillin was constantly closing the gap with tien throughout original dragon ball and had only a 3% difference in power in saiyan saga
Watch original dragon ball
Dbz kai (not dbz) from saiyan to cell saga
oh yeah what about all those fillers toei kept giving tien in db and dbz just to make him look good in EVERY fight ,krillin gets non ....
Tien trained with only 1 goal to surpass or maybe prepare for a new threat all of which he dropped in cell saga he said that himself he now has a job
Toriyama said only piccolo vegeta and goku train all the time
he doesn't train all the time
fullmetal Tien was not weaker than kid Goku, they were even in power. Tien could have killed him but he chose not to. And yes, Ki Ko Ho DOES work that way. It is a technique where the power level output is huge. How else would it be able to rag doll someone with a power level in the hundred millions like Cell? He can copy moves to an extent. He learned a full power Kamehameha just by seeing it, and he even learned the Mafuba(Evil Containment Wave) in one day. It took Master Roshi a lifetime to learn that technique and even said that the techniques requires many years to learn. Tien learned in one day. Tien is a prodigy. He can’t copy every move instantly but he has the potential to learn almost any move. Tien was ALWAYS stronger than Krillin since his introduction into the series. He was leagues ahead Krillin throughout the entirety of the original Dragon Ball and was still stronger in the Saiyan saga. Dragon Ball Kai is NOT the “original” Dragon Ball Z. Dragon Ball Kai is basically a re-dub of Dragon Ball Z with less filler and changed dialogue from the original. You sound like a pissed off Krillin fanboy. Krillin had plenty of filler moments where he gets to look good. In Super, when he fought SSB Goku, those episodes are pure filler and they made Krillin look great, while in Tien’s filler episodes they make him look like shit.
I’m not sure if Tien was stronger than Krillin in the Saipan saga, but I agree with everything else you said
@@gonfreak4951
And tien was able to beat goku 1 on 1
gon freak he was, bulma even used the scouter and told everyone their power levels, tiens was the highest of the humans. That was saiyan saga
“17 uses his vast powers gained as a park ranger to beat the crap out of Goku.”
🤣🤣🤣
while tien was training and is still weak 😔
He ranged the shit of that park
Gohan teaches Videl Ki control in a couple of days. Tien can't train his students to do the same.
What the fuck
How to be fair but there was already a martial artist and we don't know about the other people
Gohan said that Videl was stronger than Mr Satan who was a Martial champion...
Videl was built perfectly for the basics of ki.
@@cj-zp1pw , Mr.Satan is a hack fraud though, and his only real win in DBZ was in the Buu Saga, so no I don’t see how Gohan was able to teach Videl everything about Ki in a few days, but Tien isn’t able to teach an entire dojo full of people how to use Ki perfectly.
@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr well goku learned kamehameha in literally 5 seconds after he was a trained martial artist, so it makes sense videl learned ki in a couple days
@@joedanville1240 , Goku in DBZ onwards is discount Gods and Monsters Superman whereas Videl is just an ordinary female in DBZ, so I could see on why somebody like Goku or Superman could pull a kamehameha out of their own ass, but I don’t see somebody like Videl instantly learning everything Ki related in just a few days.
People have also forgotten that in DBZ, when Yamcha died again during the Buu saga, he was allowed to go train with the Kais and all the warriors from the other galaxies, like Goku did. Yamcha is ALSO supposed to be massively, massively strong when you take that into consideration; he says that he really does want to become stronger and still demonstrates a passion for fighting. He didn't even want to be resurrected again because of that. He was NOT a joke character by the end of DBZ, not in the slightest. The FANS turned him into a joke, and Toei were like "ok.jpg" so now he's a playboy baseball player for no logical reason because that's apparently the only thing everyone remembers besides that one time he was killed by a Cybaman and fisted by Gero.
If Tienshinhan is supposed to be the absolute strongest human in the main cast, then Yamcha can't be far behind, but if he was put through the same training as Goku in the afterlife, then he really should've been far above him. If, you know, they actually cared about continuity.
Lol what. Yamcha was a joke in DBZ (though all humans basically are) he gets killed in the sayian saga by a scrub. Training with king Kai means nothing at best he is at 9000 power level cause he doesnt get kaioken which is nothing by the end of the namek saga. Andriod saga bulma his long time gf leaves him for his murder. And then he basically runs away the rest of the saga. He is a joke in DBZ. All humans are but he is the worst. So what if he trains with kai's at the end doesnt undo how laughably he was treated in the rest of dbz
@@Alexander-the-Mediocre q.e.d.
@@forgot7en Thanks I know I'm right. Also just want to point out that in the manga yamcha never goes to the Supreme Kai planet. So according to cannon he never trains or gets stronger or regains his fighting spirt. So your continuity and yamacha being strong by the end of Z doesn't work either.
@@Alexander-the-Mediocre Ok then.
Who said any human went to the surpreme kai? I don't see that. But we know they all went to king kai.
To be fair goku forgot he had a son
yeah uh... where the fuck's goten?
Dell Conagher on 17's island with trunks supposedly terrorising poor poachers.
Dell Conagher goku isnt THAT irresponsible to bring his 7 year old into this
The 43rd Firedemon also he didn't want Goten nor trunks in the tournament because they're too reckless, stated in the anime, and if they went fusion, and decided to get ahead of themselves, that would probably be two more fighters down in the tournament.
Goku remembered Goten, he forgot Gohan
Even Yamcha has his own episode
Daniel Arroyo
Half time entertainment.
But frankly, he was just happy to be included.
He was on the list, that the reason.
He only had an episode so he could get yamcha'd
When?
I actually like Tien... Now I feel bad for the guy...
Thanks Toriyama...
ilr yamcha got a self insert fanfic. That's the best we are gonna get for him.
like Toriyama is writting Tien, blame the writers in the Super staff , Tien doesn't have a godfather there thats why hes so mistreated.
Filipe Eduardo it reminds me of tfs Dragon ball abridged series were tien kikoho's the shit out of cell.
Tien was my favorite in Dragonball. I was looking forward to him getting his moment to shine in the Universe Survival arc. Now I'm pissed that Toei is so apathetic toward him, yet they brought Roshi back as a form of fanservice.
Toriyama just provides a very basic baseline.
Toei staff are garbage when it comes to writing.
Let's just believe in Toyataros manga.
24:10
Honestly, these closing thoughts really hit home what’s so depressing about Tien. He’s spent his whole life training and trying to perfect the art of combat, and yet his entire progress can be overtaken by a bunch of 7 year olds because of superior genes.
He’s like Yamcha, except Yamcha has had the good sense to give up and coast out of life. Sure, he’s not the strongest man on earth, but he’s probably getting a lot of good pussy.
Tien on the other hand? He’s a 50 year old virgin whose best friend is a floating Chinese vampire child and runs a failing dojo with students who can’t even use Ki (something Videl, a fucking high schooler, mastered in a lazy afternoon).
Tien refusal to quit isn’t inspiring, it’s just sad.
Tl;dr: quit while you’re ahead
….or bad writing which was the point of the video
@@L3yL1n3 Exactly, the Dragon Ball Super anime is known for having bad writting, in some cases really bad writting (Krillin matching SSJ God Blue Goku, Trunks genkisword from like 30 people killing Zamasu instead of Vegito, etc)
To be fair, Videl was already a skilled fighter when she met Gohan.
Yeah no way a random schoolgirl who got training from her father (who is a fraud, still a lot more stronger and faster than the average human) can have more skill than shaolin warriors (who are known to be training ever since the age of 5 in a super hardcore routine). This is just not good writing.@@MinscFromBaldursGate92
@@MinscFromBaldursGate92 And that is not a requisite for learning how to use ki. Hell, Tien was probably stronger than her when he was half her age. Goku certainly was.
I like how they said that the tournament isnt about pure strength and brute force,
But the entire tournament is just people beating other people with brute force.
no.
@@SuperSuper0
Yes
@@iman5147 nO nO nO
@@SuperSuper0
Oh yEs yEs yEs
@@SuperSuper0 YES, YES, YES, YES, YES... YES!
At least they let him fight.....
-a sad sad Yamcha Fanboy
At this point yamcha is a gag character
at least yamcha is really cool for about 2 volumes in dragon ball. you'll always have that
We will always have the baseball episode
@@taylorjudge4506
Lol
yeah yamcha is a joke but roshi makes sense. super is way worse than GT
They did tien dirty, he should've kept his buff shoulders
@@equanimity92 i respect you trying to get bigger but you mad annoying
Whats really dumb is that Goku mentions Tein when trying to recruit 17 yet doesn't think of him to join
"He can see every donut."
10/10, worth the time.
SinHurr dont you mean 5/7?
this video is wrong
First tien was weaker than kid goku he is straight lying kikoho doesn't work that way
Kiai technique can only be used to block much weaker attacks
He learned the kamehameha only he can't copy all moves krillin and goku did the kamehameha on their first try
Tien is 5-6 older than krillin when he was introduced he had way more intense training
Krillin was constantly closing the gap with tien throughout original dragon ball and had only a 3% difference in power in saiyan saga
Watch original dragon ball
Dbz kai (not dbz) from saiyan to cell saga
oh yeah what about all those fillers toei kept giving tien in db and dbz just to make him look good in EVERY fight ,krillin gets non ....
Tien trained with only 1 goal to surpass or maybe prepare for a new threat all of which he dropped in cell saga he said that himself he now has a job
Toriyama said only piccolo vegeta and goku train all the time
he doesn't train all the time
Tien: This is the last cool thing I will ever do, there is no joke.
Respect...
Respecc
Respecc.
Krillin: I'M SO WEAK!
TIEN: Hold my beer.
Lmaoooo!
Alejandro Delgado
Tien>Krillin
LMAOOOO 😂
*drops the beer
You know tien by feats is stronger than krillen :/
Don´t you love how, whenever you critique the treatment of a character with a video like this, the croonies come out of the ground defending all the shit Toriyama farts? It happens even in this comment section: 'Krillin, Videl, and Roshi have more potential than Tien and Yamcha, therefore--'
No they don´t. Potential is not a valid argument to dismiss criticism, especially when in this franchise "potential" is a transparent way to say the author is gonna wank everyone but the jobbers he hates. Don´t try to rationalize it.
Tien, Yamcha and Chaotizu r more interesting than Roshi, Krillin and Videl. Since Roshi and Krillin retired while Gohan discontinued due to wanting to be scholar there was room to focuse on Tien, Yamcha and Chaotizu but the writers prefer to make one irrelevant, turn the second strongest human into a joke and retcon the strongest human into a three eyed alien jobber. Favoritism, retcon, nerfing, sh$t writing decisions and (unearned, unoriginal, color swap) transformations being pulled out of nowhere is the downfall of this series and it made me appreciate GT for leaving Tien, Yamcha and Chaotizu as cameo and a proper transformation that made the Sayian tail relevant plus adding to the lore.
Are you kidding, Toriyama forgets his characters. Look at Launch. He straight up forgot she existed. Tien is no exception. He has the attention span of about 6 characters at a time. Thats about it
He didnt even remember SSJ 2! And some people think hes a genius, because he didnt look back too his older Work, ore make notes.
so many people who never seen og dragonball love freeza cell buu satan gohan vegeta...believe it or not in the og tien yamcha roshi bulma are incredible characters...
@@razkable At least very memberfull and full of Personality.
@@razkable Dragon Ball has a fantastic cast. Shame about what happened when they got old.
He is old and he is writing a story which is already 30 years old. Why he should remember some side characters? Unlike you, he is not some crazy fanboy.
I really needed it.
Toriyama Handjob OMG YASSS
@@joelfigueredo957 no. No. Shame on you.
Ethan Dickerson “Praise our Violent Savior, Baho Dores, Baho Dores, Baho Dores!”
@@ethandickerson5044
Ethan Dickerson
Dickerson
Dick erson
Dick
Heres a hand lob
Yamcha needs it more
The only reason Roshi was in the tournament was for fan service he was supposed to be retired but he got a power up out of nowhere because people like him better than other characters because he is the master despite having been surpassed by all his students
no goten trunks (buu for dumb poorly explained reasons) or yamcha...but lets take tenshinhan and roshi?...makes no sense...trunks and goten are stronger than roshi and tenshinhan...easily...its not even close..they can go ssj
The children wouldn’t of taken the tournament very seriously
@@razkable gotenks would get eliminated by the stupidest foe for one. Their fusion wouldn't last enough for the tournament so a immediate disqualification. Plus roshi and tien have a better moveset and wide array of attacks that work on certain opponents in a tournament like this while goten and trunks literally have kamehame and buster cannon that's all :/
They may be more powerful but powr isn't everything in this type of tournament
@@toastyzzz6881 you say at that but every fight is just a power clash theres barley any team fights.(referring to your point about the tournament being less power based by the way)
Female makes him get the powerup
In DBZ Budokai 3, Tien’s Ultimate Attack version of Kikoho was unique in that if you lose the Ultimate Attack mini game, it’ll actually be more powerful than if you win the mini game. I always thought that was really cool.
The whole Dragon Ball was based on the book Journey to the West (from China). Goku was based on the monkey king who defied the gods and smashed heaven. Tien was the three-eyed god who stopped the monkey King after a long fight. They were pretty much on par with the three-eyed god had a slight edge.
Yes, I remember Tien first showed up as a villain in DB, and he broke Yamaha's leg. Fought Roshi to a standstill but Roshi gave up after a long fight. Then he won the tournament after defeating Goku. He was able to copy Kamekameha after just saw it once. Now he is just a shitty character who is completely useless and totally forgot most of his own moves and abilities. Sad indeed...
Jesus Christ man
Dude I love Tien. Favorite Z fighter after piccolo
Tien turned into a pokemon, and he only can remember 4 moves: punch, kick, clone and kikoho
Imagine if they allowed Tien to be as useful as he was before.
Disabling enemy attacks, copying useful moves, maybe a kamehameha with the combined strength of Goku, Gohan, Krillin, Tien, and Yamcha ...
He can still be great, the writers just need to utilize him (Team Four Star certainly would).
Yamaha/yamcha was a villian once too
Wasn’t tien the first to fly in the series?
Chiaotzu did it first technically.
Chiaotzu then Tenshinhan then Piccolo then Krillin then Goku
@@micah941 yup
ThePcGamer Your wrong dumbass. Have you watched the show?
@@topperbopper4671 stfu
This is the most accurate and amusing run down on Tien I have ever seen. I particularly loved the point about Gohan only training for five years and yet he is so powerful, while Tien trained for 50 and sucks.
Tien honestly doesn't have much else than just grunting and training and hoping his arms grow back after they get chopped off.
Gohan is a half saiyan and naturally has a bullshit power boost as the saiyans do.
I have 0 issue with Gohan being stronger than Tien, but Krillin has little excuse...
Piccolo: "I see you've increased your power as well. Good."
Krillin: "I know, isn't it great, I- "
Piccolo: "You're almost as strong as Gohan now!"
Krillin: "What!? But... but he's only 5!"
Gohan: "It's because I'm a Saiyan!"
Krillin: "Well that seems... incredibly unfair..."
Crohn tien is a 3 eyed, 4 armed human, he's NOT NORMAL
Ike of Pyke he is since this is anime
There's a clear explanation about how Krillin got his power boost offscreen...
It's called 18 and she's an expert at training Krillin's... "Endurance..."
Never thought about this but i'm sold
Manga did him worse. He didn't even get a single elimination.
At least he got to fight unlike Krillin.
Rei There is no reason to compare the two when they both went out pathetically. It’s like when people say “At least Krillin was caught off guard, while Tien had his most powerful attack tanked.” At this point Tien fans and Krillin fans are both livid over their faves’ treatment in the manga and should take this as an opportunity to come together and say “Our faves are both shat on consistently, and that’s ridiculous.”
Fodimin Layton At least the manga is more logical. Tien is weak and he was a martial artist. That is all. They could have written it way better.
Fucking WEAK wtf man
Manga boiled my blood with how he treated both. I don't expect much from Toyotarou this tournament.
I view Tien as the tale of one man's odyssey through a life that ordains he suffer more than anyone. Yet he persists, continues despite all the suffering, and never gives up. I mean, he is the ONLY Z fighter who even had the imperative to pass on their knowledge of martial arts. All the rest just constantly screw off to have their own personal needs met. That Chinese Redhead of the cast is literally trying to turn other regular humans into something that can stand up to the insane inter-dimensional threats constantly entangling Earth. Screw that, only the World's Strongest deserve mastery.
But Tien never gives up, and no matter how hard it tries, the Universe just cannot destroy Tienshenhan. Tien's story perspective turns all the Saiyans into elitist arseholes and the world, a cruel and uncaring crucible of pain to overcome.
Thus is Third Eye opened. Thus is Enlightenment perceived, but not revealed.
That was great writing. Kudos.
Brilliant comment
A beautiful sentiment. Gave Tien some justice
Yeah a real Role model.
Holy fuck, great comment
Tfw you realize that shitty writing is actually quite depressing because it shows us the possiblity of good things and then rips it out and destroys it for no real reason
Dajal The term for those villains is "Hubris", referring to pride before the fall. Historically it had been used in Greek legends to display the folly of man, but now it's used by every retarded anime writer to give the same personality to their important characters and artificially extend a fight. It's one thing if just the villains are doing it, but you know it's a problem when all the heroes are too (not to mention it's an intrinsic part of the Saiyan race).
>Universe 6 arc.
>Pointless.
Pick one.
Dajal To be fair, in Zamasu's case, I could see him hating mortals enough to want to kill them with his own hands and making them suffer, rather than just doing it the easy way and either wishing for them to be killed or just not holding back. I don't think that was ever clarified, though.
its not unbelievable for him to have that thought proccess of "i want to do it with my own hands" but it becomes ridiculous when he basically makes the task impossible for himself by being such a huge moron.
he could sterilize the entire earth in a day tops but he spends his time walking through exploding buildings and playing around with a clearly weaker trunks and a bunch of humans he can sense
drinks tea at some abandon resort out in the open so his enemies can make pot shots at him
goku, trunks and vegeta lose to him like 3 times in a row and lets them escape every time,
lets fuckin bulma distract him instead of obliterating her immediately
and then he'll outright abandon his best attacks just to look cool i guess, whatever happened to that space-time shadow clone thing he had goin? sure would have been useful during the later half of the third round. too bad he traded it for a knockoff susanoo.
scruffles 383 That moment when you realize fans could have written better DB Super episodes. DB is circling the drain.
I think America doesn’t give a shit about Tien because most Americans who watch Dragon Ball haven’t seen the original series, they started on Z
VAST POWERS GAINED BY BEING A PARK RANGER.
The Angel Grove Rangers know what's up
Powerups sponsored by Krispy Kreme.
off screen training. Not an ass pull at all.
omg, 17 is just a tiny megazord :o
Mighty morphin park rangers GO!
that's even better because 17 and 18 basically kamen riders
Number 17 ranged the shit out of that park.
.........kinky.
Remember that dude with the gun that got censored out of the Pokemon Safari Zone episode? Totally 17.
Blasted his power levels to god status from fending off a couple dick heads in a park...Meanwhile, Tien... Why....
Tien is chinese sooo.....
I was ecstatic that, that was a thing.
Immediately what I said when I found out he was a park ranger.
Glorious.
Do you realize the characters that have the most interesting techniques are the weakest? Kikoho, kienzan, solar flare, that kage bunshin thing, the energy ball from Yamcha, the Dispersion Kamehameha...
Seems like the main characters need to have some stupid named energy blast, because then Tori can make blast clashes.
Krillin's diffusion blast is pretty badass too. Or is that the dispersion kamehameha?
@@rpllrp ah
Wolf Fang Fist?
Eh, Yamcha's Sokidan is pretty shitty, you need to stand still for a technique that is not even that strong. Kienzan is like the strongest technique in the series yet no one else wanted to use it for some reason.
@@federicopalacios7439
I know right? A Solar Flare and Kienzan combo would be deadly.
DBZA-s line from him "This is the last cool thing I will ever do. There is no joke." Sadly remains very much true.
It's a shame too because Tien is such a cool character with a diverse move set.. but they don't even bother to use him smh
literally one of the top 5 characters in the franchise imo
I really hope they make him a bigger part of the next season of super, or at least don't make him such a joke
And he’s got a lot of nostalgia for people who watched db
You nailed it. In a series where basically everyone's shtick is, "Fly fast, punch fast, shoot lasers," Tien's one of the few characters with actually interesting powers. Him and Piccolo.
He was one of the strongest in the original dragon ball, and was relevant until the buu saga smh. Why would they make Krillin perform better than Tien, if Krillin had 10 years less of training. What even is that
My headcanon is that all his "training" ,was just him slapping Lunch cheeks
Lol I highly doubt that
Worth it
Tien spent so much of his life RUNNING from her, that's a bad headcanon.
Who's "lunch" fam?
Critical Thinker watch the original dragonball
Tien is whatever the opposite of a Mary-Sue is. Edit: he also has very big shoulders.
Chew Toy?
gary stu
@Kiss Shot Acerola Orion Heart-Under-Blade i thought that’s what they meant
Jobber
Eus-Yram
Goku thinking of fighters to bring for the Tournament and he forgot the guy that kicked literally Roshis, Yamchas and his ass in one of the worlds martial arts tournaments back to back to back....