@@kana22693 except this was proven to be half true, according to AT because the fathers had so many damn S Cells, their kids inherited that same amount of potential s cells, however they will have even more S cells by the time they're full grown, which means pretty much Toriyama came up with a idea that will perpetuate SSJ into the future of all their descendants so long as each generation trains enough to unlock SSJ or/and beyond, and has kids awards. The reason Pan is so strong even as a baby to the point she can fly as a 1 year old if not younger, is because Gohan has so many S-Cells, more than his father had when he made Gohan. lol
Goku's buff stack: Super Sayian 3 + God Ki + Kaioken x20 + Ultra Instinct Jiren's buff stack: Standing Still + Crossing Arms + Changing Facial Disposition + Not Making A Sound Gonna be really fucking close you guys!!
his explanation on how power levels/"why Goku can die from a weak ki blast" is the most astounding DBZ explanation I've ever heard. It makes so much sense, which is why it hurts so much that Toriyama can't explain it, BUT TOGASHI CAN IN HUNTER X HUNTER!!!! It's literally the same thing, but since Toriyama doesn't understand that he's just adding crap that makes no sense.
bingo...after watching the end of super I can confirm by every dumb fanboys reaction in reaction videos that thinks the mangas over and are satisfied with that ending and don't know about z's ending coming after that and they all applaud the final 2 eps as if the budget was not at its peak and those eps weren't worked on for 6 months at least in the background during free time to make it look good using the best of the best..that wasn't made in 1 week people..dont lie to yourself....took a whole team months to do and that's why the rest of super needed 2 movie arcs filling over 1/6 of its eps so they could save budget for 1 finale..its dumb...don't get sucked in...2 eps out go 131 had great art and animation all the way through..big deal...the movies have that too from 25 years ago...and now people want super back and broly movie getting dick sucked as if its not the 4th broly movie and im just like this fanbase is cancerous..
I liked ultra instinct before the gray hair. It seemed like less of a transformation and more of a state of mind but then they just made him another color of the power rangers
They way I thought UI worked was that it was a state of mind and didn't actually give a power boost. It was skill based. Then MUI began and all it had was really good animation. Lucky for them, i like pretty animation
I nearly fell out of my chair when I heard that. My brain shut off. "No, that can't be a thing! THAT'S NOT HOW THAT WORKS! TIME DOESN'T HAVE A FUCKING POWER LEVEL!
That Dragon Ball Super fanbase is just a shit house of people who have too much time on their hand. Behaving and organizing this mess of a series and pretending that he's Tolkein level author. I'm not trying to criticize Toriyama at all but I think even he admits that when it comes to world building and storytelling, he claims to not be the best. Which is more earnest then what I could say about the zealous fanbase.
@@gabrielwright-dunn9355 This is technically correct, but I'd like to think when Jiren meditates he's actually thinking of a timeline where Launch is secretly a Saiyan, and actually matters to the story
I think the problem with Dragon Ball isn't that they don't give characters unique "mechanics", it's that they obsess over cementing EVERY villain as the Strongest of whatever he is. It's basically just "Okay, what is this guy? An Alien? Alright, he is now the strongest alien. This guy's a God? No no no, he's the STRONGEST god." Frieza is the strongest Space Thing Cell is the strongest Time Thing Buu is the strongest Magic Thing Beerus is the strongest God Thing Jiren is the strongest Multiverse Thing It's a writing equivalent of "Get out of jail free card" that they're using up way too quick. As much as you can say Frieza, Cell, Buu, ect have no qualities other than "They're strong", they're fucking great. But what the fuck do you do when you've already cemented the strongest Alien, Time-traveler, Magic Being, God, and Multiverse Fighter? You're out of cards to pull. So you just do shit like Zamasu where you have to go through so much BS just to overcome the limits you put on yourself by saying every villain is the Strongest of their kind.
Reversed Goose The issue is that the heroes lack mechanics. The villains have some interesting powers in concept, but the heroes all just have laser beam, punches, kicks, balls of light, and the occasional transformation that allows them to do more of the other four things.
@Adrian Scott Given complete freedom to do whatever I want? Erase SSJ completely and leave it at Kaioken first off as it is the same but with real consequences. Also I’d like to see the martial arts ends of things get more emphasis. Stuff like the Dragon Fist or the Meteor Combination at least lends a unique fighting style to Goku which makes him fun to watch, when he would use them at least. Fighterz actually nailed this where we get to see their auto combos as flavor, each character throws a punch or jab differently and that can then be further diversified into the laser beamy shit. The problem in the show is to save on animation everyone sticks primarily to the big Full Power Energy Wave or less unique punches and kicks with blur lines. More supplemental attacks like the Kaioken would be interesting too, maybe a power up mode that exuded icy energy and freezes whatever you are able to make contact with a la vampire Dio, maybe more of the androids energy absorption, maybe something like Yang or Fatgum where you can take damage to return it with a single attack. The multiform technique would be nice to see more often too if used in an intelligent manner. Dragon Ball has interesting techniques but they always get buried under the more generic attacks because the battles lean more on power scaling than on tactics. Don’t get me wrong, I love Riot Javelin, but it’s way more fun watching Bardock blitz some Frieza soldiers with Revenge Assault or Sledgehammer. I want the moves to show more personality than just flavored colors of light. Also Tri Beam is the shit, more trade off attacks please.
Never mind "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 3 Blue Ultra Instinct Kaio-Ken x20 Goku" The real hype is when he fuses with Vegeta. That's right. "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 3 "Royal Blue" Ultra Instinct Kaio-Ken x20 Vegitto... Great Ape Form!" That's when Dragon Ball Super will be finally fixed!
I feel like most of them would agree the story is stupid... right? Like it wouldn't be them trying to defend Dragon Ball no matter what. They might think something is not a problem and shit, but I like to believe most of the DB youtubers realize dragon ball can be really shallow
@@MinscFromBaldursGate92 Its because all of the best characters in Dragonball are the human, Namekian and non-Saiyan characters. But DBZ and beyond turned into the "Saiyans are the only characters who matter" show.
No matter how bad DB Super gets, it will never get as bad as Seasons 3 and 4 of CW's Flash. Entire plotlines get fixed because a character "made a machine for that" offscreen in like two weeks and then villains "get better" offscreen just because Speed Weed (actual name of the writer) is a firm believer that effort is basically Satan
That's because every villain worth for Barry to even unzip his pants is another speedster with a bigger speed number. Everyone else is just a goofy reject from the 70s that keeps shitting all over the "Fastest Man Alive" who just stands idly in place as they kick his ass until the 35th minute mark of the show, where Barry miraculously remembers he has powers and decides to use them, then he just wins.
There's one scene in that show that never fails to piss me the fuck off. Early on, it establishes that Barry can move so fast, not only does it look like time has stopped, it looks like Barry is still moving at super speed in the stopped time. And he does that to whine at Iris without her hearing it. He can do that shit casually. Not only can basically nothing be a threat to Barry at that point, the show still expects us to buy the idea that he's pushing the limits of his speed. It infuriates me.
Zachary Cooke So then I should wait until Season 5 for it to "fix" the horrible season 4? I am THIS close to dropping the fucking thing, both two past episodes were horrible. Cisco better make a LITERAL Deus Ex Machina to fix the quality of the show's writing because whereas in Season 3 the show was barely floating above water, now it's sinking like a brick. Can I at least get your opinion on what exactly it is "fixing"?
Isn't Ultra Instinct just another Empty Mind/Mushin/theta state, anyway? Yet so many people act like it's the first of its kind. You know, ignoring other series that did it beforehand, like Fist of the North Star or Street Fighter or Bleach or freaking _Superman._ No kidding. Superman mastered a Kryptonian martial art that's pretty much Mushin. ...Oh! Right, it has its own rocking theme music, which makes WAY more of a difference! Of COURSE! That is TOTALLY substantial and not at all _annoying viral meme material!_
Your point? You list all of those examples and yet it’s only dragon ball that derivative? Also yes presentation matters. The manga of DBZ is well renowned for its artwork and paneling and wouldn’t be regarded as highly if it lacked those. Does that deride DBZ? No it takes skill to do that just the same as UIs animation being (mostly) fluid showing gokus movements and the music of DBS writing is important but so are other aspects of a production
"But it's like-but if anyone gets leeway, it's Dragonball because- it's like you started it."-Woolie I get that, but Kinnikuman exists and did what Dragonball did and did it better, and that came out in the SEVENTIES!
DB won't end until goku has a form for every single known color combination in history. Super saiyan brown 5 kaioken x1000 ultra delux instinct 2 electric boogaloo
@@francescolombardi3438 People assume time is a strict progression from cause to effect, but actually, from a non-linear non-subjective point of view, it's more line a big bal of wibbly wobbly time wimey... Stuff
Xandy Well probably Whis as usual then above him his Dad and then Zenos Guards??? (Probably not) then of course Zeno(s)... Hold up are the Zenos gonna fuse? Nnnoooo that makes too much sense
Know what pisses me off? Whis explains Ultra instinct like this: "You think too much about your actions, the command still has to travel from your head to your muscles for them to react. If you surpass this limitation you become HELLA STRONG (paraphrased), not even Lord Beerus has quite mastered this technique" THERE IS LITERALLY NO OTHER WAY TO MOVE MUSCLES YA DICKHEAD! Muscles can't move on their own without a command, and instinct is just a reaction caused by visual or sensory sensations, which STILL have to be processed by the brain and then sent as command to the muscles.
See if this was an anime abaut a guy named Joe the tai chi man it would make sence that him moving on instinkt would make him faster but its not its an anime abaut GODS MOVING FASTER THAN SPEED ITSELF so it is retarded
Are people forgetting that it was flat out stated that Vegeta could have died if hit by the Spirit Bomb in the Buu Saga? At this point, Porunga considered Vegeta not evil, which is why he was resurrected. It was never stated to only work on evil people. You also don't need to be good to even use it, as Cell flat out stated he knows how to do it.
It was that, in its first real use, Goku told Gohan he could reflect it because his heart was pure. Maybe Spirit Bomb responds to user wishes, or maybe Goku lied to give Gohan confidence.
The talk at the start reminded me of how in the eyepatchwolf podcast where they talk about HunterxHunter Woolie is like "Oh yeah definitely I will 100% watch HxH" and Pat was like "Seems cool but naaah probably not gonna watch it... I do wanna know why Gon's hair goes long though" and then Pat finished the anime before Woolie and Woolie and Eyepatchwolf made an entire mini series poking fun at Woolie taking so long to actually watch HxH.
Patrick Starmie Yeah but you can say that about anything. "Man, I know everyone hates it but if you just accept how bullshit Superman 64 is it's pretty entertaining!"
shupasopni Yeah, but why accept bullshit when you could watch HeroAca? Or watch HxH again, or One Punch Man again, or Jojo again, or any number of non bullshit even more hype shows that isn't banking on your 8-12 year old self?
In addition to being pure bullshit it's also really horribly produced. It looks and sounds like absolute shit and one hundred percent of the ideas presented in it are bad ideas. It's worse than GT by a country mile. I'm still watching it though, so fuck me I guess.
Funny thing is Goku is scared of needles AND Super established if your guard is down attacks that normally wouldn't hurt you can hurt you. So the needles working on Goku and the rock hurting him makes sense thanks to Super.
@@SUPERMATT5546 I mean in Cell's case Vegeta was close enough in power level to at least STAGGER him (notice he braces before Vegeta's attack hits after he kills Trunks), Vegeta's sneak attack didn't hurt Cell so much as it staggered him. But in Super you can be physically damaged if your guard is down. Getting staggered is one thing, brought to near-death is quite another. Thanks Super.
@@PlanetZoidstar In the manga, it didn't even stagger him. He didn't even flinch when it hit him in the face, he just got distracted. In the anime, Vegeta staggered him despite previously expending a lot of energy. Cell only braced himself because Vegeta was furious.
Also, the thing about the guard being down that you're referencing wasn't established in Super, you're referring to RoF, which was released as a Z movie.
@@SUPERMATT5546 RoF takes place during Super, I count it as a DBS movie, even if it wasn't marketed as a Super movie (since the series hadn't come out yet)
I kind of liked how MHA tried to keep power levels capped by saying that your baseline, unpowered physical fitness controls how much quirk you can use without killing yourself. They threw that out the window pretty fast, though.
CyberNinjaZero Instinct could very well be that. But knowing DBS there is probably a Instinct mode 2! (His eyes look like a Dragons so I think he might very well go Dragon Instinct) At least I hope not.
What's funny is that the manga explains how Hit's time manipulation works: people as strong or stronger than him can just resist it. Goku did it and I didn't see anyone in the anime saying Goku transcends time itself. You know who did say that shit, though? A lot of the fanboys on the internet. This shit with Jiren is the same shit, except some of the fans are just ignoring that fact cause Vados saying "he toats transcends time, y'all" even though there's already a reason that explains how and why people can resist Hit's time abilities. Jiren is stronger therefore Hit's ability don't work against him, in the same way Goku did it a few times. For some reason people are ignoring that, idk. I guess ignoring that fact makes it seem like Jiren is more hype than what he is, which is just another big strong dude.
I remembered it when everyone complained Jiren did it this time. I don't know how other people reacted when Goku did it the first time but I disliked it back then and I feel the same now. So it's not like "OMG Jiren won this with an asspull", it's "OMG they reaffirmed this asspull weakness in the ability."
Are you fucking serious?! What the heck! That's so freaking stupid!!! So you get into a fight. Numbers are literally the only thing that matters because Frieza didn't know any martial arts because he never trained and he managed to keep up with Goku, so it's just whoever's power level is bigger... okay.... So you're sizing up an opponent. If their numbers are bigger than yours, then time stop has no effect and you're fucking done because "You can't beat them, their numbers are SO big!" But if their numbers are SMALLER than yours, then what the fuck is even the point of stopping time in the first place?! Their numbers are smaller! Their attack value is less than YOUR attack value, so the rules of the universe state that you win and they lose. Literally the only time this would ever take effect is if you're at practically identical power levels, but even then, that NEVER happens in DBZ OR DB Super! So it's a fucking pointless ability that just exists to look cool and flashy that serves no real purpose at all. I haven't seen Hit fight yet, but am I wrong? Because I don't think this isn't really a leap in logic here given what I'm being presented with.
dracocrusher No, you're not wrong. Even when Hit uses his ability to skip time(sounds like King Crimson but works like The World), it has been shown that if you're stronger, you can just follow him into his world of frozen time because... actually they never explain that, Goku just does it even though that's an ability that affects Hit rather than anyone around him. Because fuck it, apparently you can armwrestle time and win now. It's a shame, because Hit did show promise as a character who used abilities over raw power. Hell, in the current arc where some of the worst bullshit takes place, he actually had a pretty good fight. He's up against an opponent that increase his speed immensely for short periods of time. So he figures out the tells that Hit does when he's about to use his time skip, then accelerates and attacks Hit before he can use it. Hit responds by faking his tells, then moving to counter the attack he knows is coming instead of using time skip, while also mixing in actual time skips to keep his opponent off balance. Then finishes him off with a rush of attacks when he sees an opening. There's a little back-and-forth as both characters adapts the way they use their abilities to counter the other, and there's tension because it's legitimately unclear who will win and who will lose. It's a somewhat standard fight by most shonen standards, but that's way better than what Dragonball usually does.
THAT'S SO RETARDED! Why the fuck whold Vegeta or Goku be afraid of anything, they have the power to destroy entire galaxies, they fought fucking space Hitler and Bug Guy and pink demon evil shit monster but a fucking needle, that's something normal people aren't afraid it's dumb But I guess Toriama has to give Goku some flaws so he doesn't feel like space Jesus as much
The time travel stuff made more sense to me (at least, as much as it can make sense) when I learned that a time-traveler can never affect their own present by going back into the past. They can gain some insight into events in their own future, but the only "pasts" they can visit are ones that are effectively not their own.
Ultra Instinct sounds kinda dumb. I was watching the raw with the wife and Super Sayin Silver seems more appropriate Edit: huh so on a technicality I guess that would give Goku a SSS rank
VeinexesVideos Not really appropriate as its actively different just like how Kio-Ken, Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan God, and Great Ape are. Ultra Instinct is still really dumb, maybe like Dragon something since his eyes look more like a dragon?
It's a great show. Splitting hairs about power levels really is an exercise in futility since the show itself disposed of them by the end of the saga they were introduced. The whole point of Namek was that power levels were a worthless metric.
Tio H I'd probably just watch for this universe tournament thing. The idea of getting the strongest fighters from several universes to battle each other seems great. Would it be okay to do that or should I start at a specific part in Super?
i feel like the new super form (or whatever the fuck it is) sounds like something an angry fan made up after watching the superman vs goku deathbattle cus this shit getting waaaay to fanfic-ish.
Even if they did a rematch, it would just be them reiterating the same lies they told to make Superman sound more than he is. Seriously, they claimed he lifted a book with infinite weight when him & Captain Marvel failed to move it. Ultraman even took the final page, so it wasn't infinite. Also Goku was arguably stronger than most versions of Superman that I'm aware of by Buu saga: www.vizzed.com/boards/thread.php?id=94244
Also, wasn't Ultra Instinct about clearing your mind of all emotions and stuff? And Super Saiyan forms are dependent on emotion. So they can't possibly stack with each other - it would be a complete paradox (unless Toriyama and co. conveniently forget about that, too).
I mean Ultra Instinct was supposed to be a state of mind yet it is a physical transformation and gives increased strength so it might as well be just another transformation 🙄
Well the god forms are not dependant on anger (which is why Goku can stack kaioken with it) so it would be consistent with its established logic But then again they made the hair white so it is basically super saiyan blue 2 anyway lmao
And that brings up another question. Future Tournament of Power? Or is Zeno going to destroy everything since Goku didn't coincidentally make a suggestion of a tournament? Or was it all a test to see if the universes get live as well? Oh who gives a shit.
The thing about Dragonball is that we complain til we're blue in the face about how badly it's written... but then one hype moment or cool character sucks you back in. Remember when Tien Ki Ko Hoed Cell? Remember Buu turning Dabura into a cookie and eating him? Remember laughing at everything Hercule does? Saiyaman? You'll be back, we always come back. We're dumb.
TheHoratiosvetlana it feels like an abusive relationship. The day to day events are awful and makes us angry and makes us where that we're going to leave. But the minute you reach a Breaking Point Dragonball does something cool or sweet and makes us forget all the stuff that happened before
I like it more due to the characters & how they interact. It's weird how much better the characters are written than the plot. That being said, the action is usually great too.
Thank you for the snippets from the podcast. I love their conversations but to listen for 2 hours or more is a bit too much for me. I appreciate the work. Thank you.
So I've come to a conclusion recently.... Toriyama's a fucking hack but he's not a special hack, he's the exact same kind of hack as almost any other long-term mangaka because the series progressed towards the Frieza Arc where it was the good arc that everyone loved. And then they never STOPPED doing the Frieza arc because it was 'the good one'. A new bald alien villain of some kind is introduced. They're super strong and after showcasing how tough every one of the other Z fighters is, they compare numbers with a powerful Z fighter by fighting them, leading to either the villain transforming and gaining the upper hand or the hero being useless and dying or sacrificing themselves for literally nothing. Either way, the villain is still standing as powerful as ever. Then, Goku (or Gohan once) shows up and gets beaten before transforming or unlocking a new form conveniently in time to fight the bad guy because they're SO strong that nothing else can scratch them other than an even more overpowered form or a random new way to use an existing technique we thought was pointless. Afterwards, the villain dies and they use the Dragonballs to reset everything because we just can't risk losing the fans of those characters and it all repeats all over again when the next threat comes out of literally nowhere. It was cool when it happened with Frieza. Then it happened with Cell. Then it happened with Buu. Then with Beerus (despite surviving) and with Frieza again. And I'm not too far into Super, but I'm guessing it's going to happen with Hito, Goku Black, and Jiren as well. Goku fights the guy, they're too strong because their numbers are just SO big, and then insert power up and Goku just wins on his own without anyone else doing anything to directly contribute with little to no variation on this formula. That's why Super feels so bad at times. Because the original series was already riding the fuck out of an already tired formula and they've just kept riding the same damn horrible formula even after what was acceptable storytelling evolved past that point. It's the same shit that happened to Bleach and Naruto when they just kept doing the same thing because "That's what the 'good arc' did", but in Dragonball, everyone just sort-of sits down and takes it more because it's the thing they grew up with and it looks flashy even though, if you examine what's happening, it's the same shit that's always been going on. We're just more aware of it now.
when it comes to actually drawing manga toriyama is so fucking far from being a hack. the cell arc isn't that similar to the frieza arc, either, and the piccolo arc was also an arc in which a powerful villain appears, goku gets ass kicked, levels up and wins the day.
"And I'm not too far into Super, but I'm guessing it's going to happen with Hito, Goku Black, and Jiren as well. Goku fights the guy, they're too strong because their numbers are just SO big, and then insert power up and Goku just wins on his own without anyone else doing anything to directly contribute with little to no variation on this formula." That's happened 0 times in Super.
@@ASHtheSLUGCAT You have to admit that by the time even the series itself is lampshading how obtuse and overly long the names are, you've gone a bit too far. What is actually being gained by having another power tool to give Goku another transformation at this point? He pushed beyond his limits to go Super Saiyan, then he went even further beyond to hit Super Saiyan 2.... And then he went even FURTHER further beyond for 3 before finding a way to go even FURTHER further FURRTTHEERRRR BEYOND with his ultimate form of Super Saiyan God, where he literally approaches the power of an actual deity. But then he had to go even FURTHER further FURRRTHHEERRR FUUURRRTHHHHHRRRRRRRR BEYYOOONNDDDDD to reach Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, where Goku hits his most absolute perfect ultimate final form...! And then Ultra Instinct happens and it's like... "Yeah. Cool. So what?" Goku's gone beyond being further further further further beyond and it's never been more obvious than ever how pointless and boring these transformations have been. Nothing has changed since that initial Super Saiyan transformation. Goku hasn't picked up any techniques or abilities that change how he fights. All the feats are the same, it all feels identical. Vegeta is unlocking an entirely new transformation right now and I just can't even express how little I care because it's just a pallet swap at this point. The villains don't feel threatening anymore because the show played its hand. There's only one solution for beating a big bad in Super, and it's transforming. So everything just turns into us waiting for Goku to eventually glow green or purple or black or whatever the next color is going to be so he can finally stop losing and have a normal fair fight again where he'll probably just curb-stomp them into the ground. I really can't imagine watching the show being aware of that and NOT thinking it's a problem.
@robertbocchiere757 i’m a but late but lets sum it up. hit: goku becomes sooo strong that he is now stronger than hit’s ability to stop time! goku black:well, not necessarily goku but it’s trunks! he gets this random ssj power up and a cool energy sword and beats the bad guy! jiren:oh no this bald grey alien is sooo strong! only goku can beat him now! (and vegeta but yeah, he got folded and gave goku sum energy) hello ultra instinct! goku is now sooo strong with this completely original transformatio-er i mean, technique! hello white hair dye! goku mastered this transformatio-er.. i mean technique! he’s gonna beat jiren! oh no he’s out of stamina! hello frieza! we’ll beat this grey brick wall with the power of friendship! (well tbf, i guess frieza did help out in the last one..for like 1 minute.)
What hurts me the most about this Ultra Instict BS it's that not only the fact that it has been already done during the training with mr.Popo back in DB(He teaches Goku to use reflexes at a superhuman level which is basically what ultra Instict does plus a possible boost in power ) but also is that doesn't seem to be any different(except the eyes) from Mystic form Gohan.When it's all said and done DBS will go down as worse than even fucking DBGT
That part with the rock IS in the manga. Also didn't they fucking establish that they can lower their power when they want to relax? When Trunks first appeared his PL was just 5!!
But if they don't ignore things that were established, they wouldn't have as much to bitch about. Dragon Ball has never been perfect, but it's not as bad as they love to make it seem.
This is why I fucking hate time traveling, it makes everything over complicated, at most flashbacks or people going back into memories where they cant change anything are ok in my book, I cringed a bit whey they used time traveling in nanatzu no taizai and time traveling killed Kurohime, made the story over complicated and it was just a mess in the end.
Is the Seven Deadly Sins Manga better than the Anime? When I saw the Anime I thought to myself "This is the single most boring and generic Shonen I have ever seen in my life I wish I watching Naruto and or Dragon Fairy Tale"
Time travel plots are so, so easy to mess up, but that's what makes them good when done right. Take, for instance, Madoka Magica. The reason why a certain character isn't fucking up the universe with all kinds of paradoxes is because they're not going back in time so much as simply ditching one timeline for another similar one, and has been doing it so many times that it's starting to inadvertently fuck their mission up more and more every time. It works mainly because it's taking a route that objectively ignores the ever-complicating rules of time travel.
Jacob Smith Time manipulation as a key component is fine, time travel as a "we fixed everything" is downright disrespectful like in Charlotte when they ruined amazing character progression by going back in time and saving the trigger to the character progression
If you disliked how badly those handled time travel, you will HATE Age of Ultron and Future's End. Those two are ''JUST FUCK MY SHIT UP, FAM'' in terms of time travel bullshit. Just the fucking worst, especially Future's End which is just FILLED with filler bullshit.
Star Flame Because early seasons of Shonen haven't requested we suspend our disbelief over a goddamn canyon. I stopped bleach after they save Rukia, because I enjoy haveing Kenpachi be some mysterious badass
No, Ultra Instinct is a new form. It's weird that he needs to go into this form every time to utilize a particular technique of movement, but it's still a new form. That is not his base state. And the recent Mastered Ultra Instinct (the one with silver hair) reinforces this idea. Whether he can stack it on top of previous forms is a different matter.
Chuck Testa Me too. Gogeta has application. Vegito is more a last resort. Vegito is fun and cocky, but Gogeta does his work like nobody else. Fuckin 20 seconds top
Lord Joker Yeah but that was a more recent retcon. In Fusion Reborn which I see as his one real appearance he says two lines then destroys Janemba with a humble smile to the kid afterwards. GT treated him like Vegito and so did the new Broly movie, which is a shame to me because I liked that different fusions seemed to take different personality traits. Vegito was Vegeta’s pride and Goku’s playfulness while Gogeta was Goku’s righteousness and Vegeta’s stoicism.
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Plague "His Number's So Big" of Gripes
Big, throbbing, veiny, numbers.
*backstroke of the west flashbacks*
GO BACK TO THE JOE ROGAN EXPERIENCE COMMENTS SECTION YOU!
Remember when Buu was so strong he could shout his way through reality?
Cloudman Ulmeyda Remember when Goten went SSJ because he saw Gohan do it once and Chi Chi had punched him in the face?
@@kana22693 except this was proven to be half true, according to AT because the fathers had so many damn S Cells, their kids inherited that same amount of potential s cells, however they will have even more S cells by the time they're full grown, which means pretty much Toriyama came up with a idea that will perpetuate SSJ into the future of all their descendants so long as each generation trains enough to unlock SSJ or/and beyond, and has kids awards. The reason Pan is so strong even as a baby to the point she can fly as a 1 year old if not younger, is because Gohan has so many S-Cells, more than his father had when he made Gohan. lol
@@Selvokaz Man fuck the concept of S-Cells...
@@Copperhell144 it was a easy way to explain super saiyan and tbh it's better than some of the shit in other anime.
Remember when Goku split a mountain with his barehands in his SS form, but Vegeta struggles to lift 1,000 tons in Super?
Goku's buff stack: Super Sayian 3 + God Ki + Kaioken x20 + Ultra Instinct
Jiren's buff stack: Standing Still + Crossing Arms + Changing Facial Disposition + Not Making A Sound
Gonna be really fucking close you guys!!
God I love when Plague rants on DB
his explanation on how power levels/"why Goku can die from a weak ki blast" is the most astounding DBZ explanation I've ever heard. It makes so much sense, which is why it hurts so much that Toriyama can't explain it, BUT TOGASHI CAN IN HUNTER X HUNTER!!!! It's literally the same thing, but since Toriyama doesn't understand that he's just adding crap that makes no sense.
Plague is the only DB/Z/S RUclipsr I'll watch.
Same
he isn't ill informed..at least he watches
The only person who can truly enjoy DragonBall is Kars. The guy can just choose to stop thinking.
A great guy to watch Michael Bay films with. I just wanna get high and watch explosions.
Horrific
Jiren is stronger than Jiren himself.
Jiren is the Dark Souls of anime characters.
07actual But is Jiren as strong as Jiren?
@@malikoniousjoe oh shit, you might be onto something
ILOVE YOU GUYS😂
I think the only reason people like Ultra Instinct Goku is because that fight scene had 80% of that Arc's budget.
bingo...after watching the end of super I can confirm by every dumb fanboys reaction in reaction videos that thinks the mangas over and are satisfied with that ending and don't know about z's ending coming after that and they all applaud the final 2 eps as if the budget was not at its peak and those eps weren't worked on for 6 months at least in the background during free time to make it look good using the best of the best..that wasn't made in 1 week people..dont lie to yourself....took a whole team months to do and that's why the rest of super needed 2 movie arcs filling over 1/6 of its eps so they could save budget for 1 finale..its dumb...don't get sucked in...2 eps out go 131 had great art and animation all the way through..big deal...the movies have that too from 25 years ago...and now people want super back and broly movie getting dick sucked as if its not the 4th broly movie and im just like this fanbase is cancerous..
I aint seen super, but I know I really enjoy the concept of what ultra instinct is.
I liked ultra instinct before the gray hair. It seemed like less of a transformation and more of a state of mind but then they just made him another color of the power rangers
Thats all ultra instinct has. Budget and nothing else.
They way I thought UI worked was that it was a state of mind and didn't actually give a power boost. It was skill based. Then MUI began and all it had was really good animation. Lucky for them, i like pretty animation
lol the way they described ultra instinct made it sound like its just newgame+ goku
Raltin This would technically be like 4th game New Game+ God Mode Activated
It's goku if he did 6 double teams and 6 sand attacks
He's stronger than time itself.
I nearly fell out of my chair when I heard that. My brain shut off.
"No, that can't be a thing! THAT'S NOT HOW THAT WORKS! TIME DOESN'T HAVE A FUCKING POWER LEVEL!
That Dragon Ball Super fanbase is just a shit house of people who have too much time on their hand. Behaving and organizing this mess of a series and pretending that he's Tolkein level author. I'm not trying to criticize Toriyama at all but I think even he admits that when it comes to world building and storytelling, he claims to not be the best. Which is more earnest then what I could say about the zealous fanbase.
Darrius Cooper "the fanbase have too much time on their hands"
It's like they're stronger than time itself.
DB Super teached me that if i lift enough weights i can travel back in time.
I knew the show was gonna be stupid about masturbating to how strong Jiren is. I just didn't know it was going to be this goddamn stupid.
Plague is the alternate version of jiren in our reality
Fer Zum
Sir your tiny hat is adorable
Renwaldo Baçonés de Gàrcían well thank you for the compliment, indeed is a small hat
So when Jiren meditates, he's actually thinking of furry women?
@@gabrielwright-dunn9355 This is technically correct, but I'd like to think when Jiren meditates he's actually thinking of a timeline where Launch is secretly a Saiyan, and actually matters to the story
Man I will never get tired of hearing plague rant on Dragon Ball
I love how Plagues sheer anger at the absurdity of it all is distorting his memory of actual facts
Ray Perkins Perkins like what?
There are no actual facts.
Only Zool.
Mahlsalve Scrafty Zool?
A...are you serious? Have you ever watched the 1984 Ghostbusters...at all? What is wrong with you?
....I watched it as a kid... You meanie :(
Dragon Ball power levels = heh, nothin personel kid
NGMajora THIS FORM BEAT THAT FORM BUT ONLY WORK ON MAY AND WHEN IM HUNGRY
Jiren's stronkth comes from a source deeper than the Woolie Hole itself. So you can see why he's so strong.
It came from David Cage's butthole.
TOP KEKyoin
Yamcha's Death Pose
Your profile pic killed me
I think the problem with Dragon Ball isn't that they don't give characters unique "mechanics", it's that they obsess over cementing EVERY villain as the Strongest of whatever he is. It's basically just "Okay, what is this guy? An Alien? Alright, he is now the strongest alien. This guy's a God? No no no, he's the STRONGEST god."
Frieza is the strongest Space Thing
Cell is the strongest Time Thing
Buu is the strongest Magic Thing
Beerus is the strongest God Thing
Jiren is the strongest Multiverse Thing
It's a writing equivalent of "Get out of jail free card" that they're using up way too quick. As much as you can say Frieza, Cell, Buu, ect have no qualities other than "They're strong", they're fucking great. But what the fuck do you do when you've already cemented the strongest Alien, Time-traveler, Magic Being, God, and Multiverse Fighter? You're out of cards to pull. So you just do shit like Zamasu where you have to go through so much BS just to overcome the limits you put on yourself by saying every villain is the Strongest of their kind.
Reversed Goose The issue is that the heroes lack mechanics. The villains have some interesting powers in concept, but the heroes all just have laser beam, punches, kicks, balls of light, and the occasional transformation that allows them to do more of the other four things.
Buu was an alien, he wasn't magic. Toriyama pointed this out. Also Beerus isn't the strongest god.
@Adrian Scott Given complete freedom to do whatever I want? Erase SSJ completely and leave it at Kaioken first off as it is the same but with real consequences. Also I’d like to see the martial arts ends of things get more emphasis. Stuff like the Dragon Fist or the Meteor Combination at least lends a unique fighting style to Goku which makes him fun to watch, when he would use them at least. Fighterz actually nailed this where we get to see their auto combos as flavor, each character throws a punch or jab differently and that can then be further diversified into the laser beamy shit. The problem in the show is to save on animation everyone sticks primarily to the big Full Power Energy Wave or less unique punches and kicks with blur lines. More supplemental attacks like the Kaioken would be interesting too, maybe a power up mode that exuded icy energy and freezes whatever you are able to make contact with a la vampire Dio, maybe more of the androids energy absorption, maybe something like Yang or Fatgum where you can take damage to return it with a single attack. The multiform technique would be nice to see more often too if used in an intelligent manner. Dragon Ball has interesting techniques but they always get buried under the more generic attacks because the battles lean more on power scaling than on tactics. Don’t get me wrong, I love Riot Javelin, but it’s way more fun watching Bardock blitz some Frieza soldiers with Revenge Assault or Sledgehammer. I want the moves to show more personality than just flavored colors of light. Also Tri Beam is the shit, more trade off attacks please.
@@SUPERMATT5546 I think he's the only few who practices ultra instinct
So this is why Goku and Vegeta lost to Superman and Thor in Death Battle?
Never mind "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 3 Blue Ultra Instinct Kaio-Ken x20 Goku"
The real hype is when he fuses with Vegeta.
That's right. "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 3 "Royal Blue" Ultra Instinct Kaio-Ken x20 Vegitto... Great Ape Form!" That's when Dragon Ball Super will be finally fixed!
I just like how Goku gained Ultra Instint by falling into the Woolie Hole.
Fuck man, it's about midnight where I am and I almost woke up the whole house. XD
He's as strong as the plot needs him to be. Oh wait, that can apply to a good chunk of the DBS cast.
"As strong as the plot needs him to be" extends far, far, *_far_* beyond Dragon Ball characters.
"transparently" is the key adjective that sets db apart from most good shows.
9:27 Yes Plague, it's too late to resist now! When's that Jiren video boy!?
I would love to see Plague argue dragon ball with someone like geekdom101 or rhymestyle.
and seththeprogramer
Detective Q (Qaamanland)
andrew moyer probably not
Plague would destroy them with his stand [RATIONAL THOUGHT] Requiem
I feel like most of them would agree the story is stupid... right?
Like it wouldn't be them trying to defend Dragon Ball no matter what. They might think something is not a problem and shit, but I like to believe most of the DB youtubers realize dragon ball can be really shallow
Ultra Instinct Goku is basically just Mystic Gohan.
I personally don't care for the "design of instinct" because its Goku. Its just Goku with Dragon like eyes. Foreshadowing???
Oh-oh boi, A little late for that huh? GAZILLION TRANSFORMATIONS TOO LATE!
Uber Dueler so what you’re saying is, Ultra Instinct Goku is a power up for Buu.
it's literally Goku with a white aura
and white hair
@@francescolombardi3438 Fuck that white hair
I love how much Plague hates on DBZ yet he can't stop watching.
im sur ehe loves the series from its start so much so to watch it now hurts..but you gotta support it..
Stockholm syndrome.
He likes the first series but hates Z.
@@MinscFromBaldursGate92 Its because all of the best characters in Dragonball are the human, Namekian and non-Saiyan characters. But DBZ and beyond turned into the "Saiyans are the only characters who matter" show.
The average dbz veteran fan
Somehow, I feel like when Pat and Plague first met, Pat was like: "Who are you?"
And Plague said: "I'm you, but stronger."
TheCarlosCobain Plague is Pat's Shadow.
No matter how bad DB Super gets, it will never get as bad as Seasons 3 and 4 of CW's Flash. Entire plotlines get fixed because a character "made a machine for that" offscreen in like two weeks and then villains "get better" offscreen just because Speed Weed (actual name of the writer) is a firm believer that effort is basically Satan
That's because every villain worth for Barry to even unzip his pants is another speedster with a bigger speed number.
Everyone else is just a goofy reject from the 70s that keeps shitting all over the "Fastest Man Alive" who just stands idly in place as they kick his ass until the 35th minute mark of the show, where Barry miraculously remembers he has powers and decides to use them, then he just wins.
There's one scene in that show that never fails to piss me the fuck off. Early on, it establishes that Barry can move so fast, not only does it look like time has stopped, it looks like Barry is still moving at super speed in the stopped time. And he does that to whine at Iris without her hearing it. He can do that shit casually.
Not only can basically nothing be a threat to Barry at that point, the show still expects us to buy the idea that he's pushing the limits of his speed. It infuriates me.
...you know, when you said Barry, I didn't think of DBZ. Because I don't watch DBZ. I thought of Resident Evil.
"WHAT A MANSION!"
Season 4 just started and their already fixing all that shit
Zachary Cooke So then I should wait until Season 5 for it to "fix" the horrible season 4? I am THIS close to dropping the fucking thing, both two past episodes were horrible.
Cisco better make a LITERAL Deus Ex Machina to fix the quality of the show's writing because whereas in Season 3 the show was barely floating above water, now it's sinking like a brick.
Can I at least get your opinion on what exactly it is "fixing"?
Isn't Ultra Instinct just another Empty Mind/Mushin/theta state, anyway? Yet so many people act like it's the first of its kind. You know, ignoring other series that did it beforehand, like Fist of the North Star or Street Fighter or Bleach or freaking _Superman._ No kidding. Superman mastered a Kryptonian martial art that's pretty much Mushin.
...Oh! Right, it has its own rocking theme music, which makes WAY more of a difference! Of COURSE! That is TOTALLY substantial and not at all _annoying viral meme material!_
lol get Shaggy'd
@@Trynt33 Pretty sure Ultra Instinct isn't about being super brutal, either. That's just the Super Saiyan stuff.
Also Killua from Hunter X Hunter.
Your point? You list all of those examples and yet it’s only dragon ball that derivative? Also yes presentation matters. The manga of DBZ is well renowned for its artwork and paneling and wouldn’t be regarded as highly if it lacked those. Does that deride DBZ? No it takes skill to do that just the same as UIs animation being (mostly) fluid showing gokus movements and the music of DBS writing is important but so are other aspects of a production
*Remember when krillin's destructo disc could slice through anything*
And then just dissipated on impact with Cell?
He CUT FREEZA'S BIG BIG TAIL...
This dude is dangerous
ANYTHING... that has at least less than 2 times Kuririn's power
@@MrAuthor3DS Anime-only, but yeah.
"But it's like-but if anyone gets leeway, it's Dragonball because- it's like you started it."-Woolie
I get that, but Kinnikuman exists and did what Dragonball did and did it better, and that came out in the SEVENTIES!
Listening to them laugh about how stupid it would be for Gohan beast form to exist is funny
you can't plug plot holes with power levels
but jiren's number is so big, you can plug all the lot holes with it
jiren transcends plot holes
Tell that to Giorno Giovarna
he erased plot holes with a hole in his inconsistent stand
Alright, I'm a bit lost, but I think we can all agree that someone's definitely plugging some holes
DB won't end until goku has a form for every single known color combination in history.
Super saiyan brown 5 kaioken x1000 ultra delux instinct 2 electric boogaloo
You know what another name for a timeline is?
A reality.
but time isn't made of lines.
it's made of circles
that's why clocks are round
@@francescolombardi3438
People assume time is a strict progression from cause to effect, but actually, from a non-linear non-subjective point of view, it's more line a big bal of wibbly wobbly time wimey... Stuff
@@dumpsockpuppet5619 i am 4 parallel universes ahead of you
I smell a trifusion of Matt, Woolie, and Pat coming soon.
Was anyone else hoping Goku would pull that big ass Kamahamaha just to anger Plague?
Ken Krumbach Yes
Once they added numbers to super Saiyan I knew it was all down hill from there
Well you can say that NOW..
They Don't Reply Back. Naw even as a kid i was like oh they arw just gonna mame thr hair dumber and add numbers to it forever
To be fair, I didn't see it coming until I saw SSJ3. That shit's still stupid to this day.
WHO'S THE NEXT STRONGEST AFTER JIREN?
Xandy Well probably Whis as usual then above him his Dad and then Zenos Guards??? (Probably not) then of course Zeno(s)... Hold up are the Zenos gonna fuse? Nnnoooo that makes too much sense
El Grande Padre is Godhan next challenge
El Grande Padre and Shaggy as second stronkest
Johnny Guitar GOHAN BLANCO OBVIOUSLY
Jiren. . .again.
He's stronger than time! He stares disapprovingly at your attempts to make a sequence.
Gripes from 4yrs ago called current arc super manga
Yu Yu Hakusho's use of the energy sword was great
YYH > DB
Yeah, I said it.
Jiren getting a new form...
shinwolf JirenSuperGrayGodGraySuperJirenJusticeX100UltraGodInstinct.
Yes, that sounds like dumb fanfiction. But then again, so does all of Super.
Know what pisses me off? Whis explains Ultra instinct like this: "You think too much about your actions, the command still has to travel from your head to your muscles for them to react. If you surpass this limitation you become HELLA STRONG (paraphrased), not even Lord Beerus has quite mastered this technique"
THERE IS LITERALLY NO OTHER WAY TO MOVE MUSCLES YA DICKHEAD! Muscles can't move on their own without a command, and instinct is just a reaction caused by visual or sensory sensations, which STILL have to be processed by the brain and then sent as command to the muscles.
Yeah, but what if, like, you just REACT to your opponent's movements without think-- No you know what it's still fucking stupid, you're right.
Argedon But this isn't just an Instinct. It's ULTRA Instinct!
Is joke, please no kill me I have job
See if this was an anime abaut a guy named Joe the tai chi man it would make sence that him moving on instinkt would make him faster but its not its an anime abaut GODS MOVING FASTER THAN SPEED ITSELF so it is retarded
@Adrian Scott Ha, I forgot I even left that comment.
Why did Goku use a Spirit Bomb on someone who was a Justice Warrior? Doesnt the Spirit Bomb only work on evil people?
no it doesn't, it's just you can reflect it if you're pure or some shit
It actively attacks and destroys maliciousness. It was a total fucking waste of energy
Are people forgetting that it was flat out stated that Vegeta could have died if hit by the Spirit Bomb in the Buu Saga? At this point, Porunga considered Vegeta not evil, which is why he was resurrected. It was never stated to only work on evil people. You also don't need to be good to even use it, as Cell flat out stated he knows how to do it.
It was that, in its first real use, Goku told Gohan he could reflect it because his heart was pure. Maybe Spirit Bomb responds to user wishes, or maybe Goku lied to give Gohan confidence.
Dont use your brain to much m8 its bad for your health
This whole conversation reminds of that one Mega64 video:
"HE SKIPPED 9 AND WENT STRAIGHT TO 10!"
IS that the one were he becomes a flaming shoe? haha gold.
The talk at the start reminded me of how in the eyepatchwolf podcast where they talk about HunterxHunter Woolie is like "Oh yeah definitely I will 100% watch HxH" and Pat was like "Seems cool but naaah probably not gonna watch it... I do wanna know why Gon's hair goes long though" and then Pat finished the anime before Woolie and Woolie and Eyepatchwolf made an entire mini series poking fun at Woolie taking so long to actually watch HxH.
I'm *really* starting to be happy I'm skipping out on Super because the BS is even stronger than I could have imagined.
its pretty entertaining if you accept how bullshit it is
Patrick Starmie Yeah but you can say that about anything. "Man, I know everyone hates it but if you just accept how bullshit Superman 64 is it's pretty entertaining!"
There is a difference between a bad game and an entertaining but dumb show.
shupasopni Yeah, but why accept bullshit when you could watch HeroAca? Or watch HxH again, or One Punch Man again, or Jojo again, or any number of non bullshit even more hype shows that isn't banking on your 8-12 year old self?
In addition to being pure bullshit it's also really horribly produced. It looks and sounds like absolute shit and one hundred percent of the ideas presented in it are bad ideas. It's worse than GT by a country mile. I'm still watching it though, so fuck me I guess.
Funny thing is Goku is scared of needles AND Super established if your guard is down attacks that normally wouldn't hurt you can hurt you. So the needles working on Goku and the rock hurting him makes sense thanks to Super.
To be fair, that was obvious by Z. Cell got hit by Vegeta & was thrown off, leaving him exposed for an injured Gohan to wipe him out.
@@SUPERMATT5546 I mean in Cell's case Vegeta was close enough in power level to at least STAGGER him (notice he braces before Vegeta's attack hits after he kills Trunks), Vegeta's sneak attack didn't hurt Cell so much as it staggered him.
But in Super you can be physically damaged if your guard is down. Getting staggered is one thing, brought to near-death is quite another.
Thanks Super.
@@PlanetZoidstar In the manga, it didn't even stagger him. He didn't even flinch when it hit him in the face, he just got distracted. In the anime, Vegeta staggered him despite previously expending a lot of energy. Cell only braced himself because Vegeta was furious.
Also, the thing about the guard being down that you're referencing wasn't established in Super, you're referring to RoF, which was released as a Z movie.
@@SUPERMATT5546 RoF takes place during Super, I count it as a DBS movie, even if it wasn't marketed as a Super movie (since the series hadn't come out yet)
It's sad to listen to this now and see what My Hero Academia has become...who can HIT HARDER
I kind of liked how MHA tried to keep power levels capped by saying that your baseline, unpowered physical fitness controls how much quirk you can use without killing yourself. They threw that out the window pretty fast, though.
we need more podcasts with plague talking shit about super
my mat woolie fusion fanfiction is now canon..
I fucking Love Woolie and Matt GT designs were Awesome
21:00 The more they talk the more it seems like Goku Prestiged
CyberNinjaZero Instinct could very well be that. But knowing DBS there is probably a Instinct mode 2! (His eyes look like a Dragons so I think he might very well go Dragon Instinct) At least I hope not.
Woolie's Prediction of UI Goku came true! Lmao that's funny af!
What's funny is that the manga explains how Hit's time manipulation works: people as strong or stronger than him can just resist it. Goku did it and I didn't see anyone in the anime saying Goku transcends time itself. You know who did say that shit, though? A lot of the fanboys on the internet. This shit with Jiren is the same shit, except some of the fans are just ignoring that fact cause Vados saying "he toats transcends time, y'all" even though there's already a reason that explains how and why people can resist Hit's time abilities. Jiren is stronger therefore Hit's ability don't work against him, in the same way Goku did it a few times. For some reason people are ignoring that, idk. I guess ignoring that fact makes it seem like Jiren is more hype than what he is, which is just another big strong dude.
I remembered it when everyone complained Jiren did it this time. I don't know how other people reacted when Goku did it the first time but I disliked it back then and I feel the same now. So it's not like "OMG Jiren won this with an asspull", it's "OMG they reaffirmed this asspull weakness in the ability."
I mean, explaining why power number is the only thing that matters in a fight doesn't make the fight less boring.
Are you fucking serious?! What the heck! That's so freaking stupid!!!
So you get into a fight. Numbers are literally the only thing that matters because Frieza didn't know any martial arts because he never trained and he managed to keep up with Goku, so it's just whoever's power level is bigger... okay.... So you're sizing up an opponent. If their numbers are bigger than yours, then time stop has no effect and you're fucking done because "You can't beat them, their numbers are SO big!" But if their numbers are SMALLER than yours, then what the fuck is even the point of stopping time in the first place?! Their numbers are smaller! Their attack value is less than YOUR attack value, so the rules of the universe state that you win and they lose. Literally the only time this would ever take effect is if you're at practically identical power levels, but even then, that NEVER happens in DBZ OR DB Super! So it's a fucking pointless ability that just exists to look cool and flashy that serves no real purpose at all.
I haven't seen Hit fight yet, but am I wrong? Because I don't think this isn't really a leap in logic here given what I'm being presented with.
dracocrusher No, you're not wrong. Even when Hit uses his ability to skip time(sounds like King Crimson but works like The World), it has been shown that if you're stronger, you can just follow him into his world of frozen time because... actually they never explain that, Goku just does it even though that's an ability that affects Hit rather than anyone around him. Because fuck it, apparently you can armwrestle time and win now.
It's a shame, because Hit did show promise as a character who used abilities over raw power. Hell, in the current arc where some of the worst bullshit takes place, he actually had a pretty good fight. He's up against an opponent that increase his speed immensely for short periods of time. So he figures out the tells that Hit does when he's about to use his time skip, then accelerates and attacks Hit before he can use it. Hit responds by faking his tells, then moving to counter the attack he knows is coming instead of using time skip, while also mixing in actual time skips to keep his opponent off balance. Then finishes him off with a rush of attacks when he sees an opening.
There's a little back-and-forth as both characters adapts the way they use their abilities to counter the other, and there's tension because it's legitimately unclear who will win and who will lose. It's a somewhat standard fight by most shonen standards, but that's way better than what Dragonball usually does.
Requian It's not about being boring, it's about the asspull that they made Jiren's resistance sound like.
I love Plague so much.
So from what i'm getting. roman reigns+braun strowman= Jiren?
More like brock leznar +roman reigns + 2010john cena=jiren
"Why not wish you were made of Dragon Balls?"
Plague casually predicted the plot of Wonder Woman 1984
Wait isn't Goku afraid of needles or some shit just like Vegeta is afraid of worms for whatever reason
Shut up
Wolfangel23 are you saying vegeta will shit his pant when a giant worm monster shows up?
metalinsanity x I'm not NOT saying it
needle not sure but the worms are a dub change only
THAT'S SO RETARDED! Why the fuck whold Vegeta or Goku be afraid of anything, they have the power to destroy entire galaxies, they fought fucking space Hitler and Bug Guy and pink demon evil shit monster but a fucking needle, that's something normal people aren't afraid it's dumb
But I guess Toriama has to give Goku some flaws so he doesn't feel like space Jesus as much
This aged well. Hes stacking UI with the blueberry super saiyan now. Whole manga is cringe.
Prison Planet Arc
DBS is the show I like to say has tons of untapped potential that was wasted for selling toys and video games
GT was also like that IMO
question is, which show was less shit?
@@sean.a.s7234 GT did have Omega Shenron so that's a plus for GT
The time travel stuff made more sense to me (at least, as much as it can make sense) when I learned that a time-traveler can never affect their own present by going back into the past. They can gain some insight into events in their own future, but the only "pasts" they can visit are ones that are effectively not their own.
Coming back to this in 2020 and I'm glad NUNS allowed us to finally see the payoff of Woolie finally finishing Naruto.
Ultra Instinct sounds kinda dumb. I was watching the raw with the wife and Super Sayin Silver seems more appropriate
Edit: huh so on a technicality I guess that would give Goku a SSS rank
VeinexesVideos Not really appropriate as its actively different just like how Kio-Ken, Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan God, and Great Ape are. Ultra Instinct is still really dumb, maybe like Dragon something since his eyes look more like a dragon?
VeinexesVideos how ssj sliver makes sense?
Tyler Cafe how is ultra instinct dumb? Idk why that western fanbase of db are becoming more dumb and not coming up proper criticisms
then he becomes a windows background.....
One day I'm gonna actually watch Super. I'm hearing all this power level bs thrown at me, but I want to feel it.
Phillip McField No you really don't.
Jordan Barkley I feel so left out. Plague makes it seem so enticing.
Phillip McField I can see that. I waited with baited breath that Plague would take apart Jiren and ultra instinct.
It's a great show. Splitting hairs about power levels really is an exercise in futility since the show itself disposed of them by the end of the saga they were introduced. The whole point of Namek was that power levels were a worthless metric.
Tio H I'd probably just watch for this universe tournament thing. The idea of getting the strongest fighters from several universes to battle each other seems great. Would it be okay to do that or should I start at a specific part in Super?
Kaioken x20 Ultra instinct Super Sayian god, huh? Goku has "Big number to the power of four"!
Argedon Fucking stupid, but at the same time I really wanna see them have to animate that mess
i feel like the new super form (or whatever the fuck it is) sounds like something an angry fan made up after watching the superman vs goku deathbattle cus this shit getting waaaay to fanfic-ish.
All I know is... Rematch.
i mean zamasu happened. and hes as OC as it gets
It's called Dragon Ball Super because the whole point is to make Goku stronger than Superman.
Even if they did a rematch, it would just be them reiterating the same lies they told to make Superman sound more than he is. Seriously, they claimed he lifted a book with infinite weight when him & Captain Marvel failed to move it. Ultraman even took the final page, so it wasn't infinite.
Also Goku was arguably stronger than most versions of Superman that I'm aware of by Buu saga:
www.vizzed.com/boards/thread.php?id=94244
“I’m not gonna do like pat and just wiki it” lol woolie
6:30 every single time plague talks about big...thicc...long...power levels i laugh so much
Also, wasn't Ultra Instinct about clearing your mind of all emotions and stuff? And Super Saiyan forms are dependent on emotion. So they can't possibly stack with each other - it would be a complete paradox (unless Toriyama and co. conveniently forget about that, too).
I mean Ultra Instinct was supposed to be a state of mind yet it is a physical transformation and gives increased strength so it might as well be just another transformation 🙄
@@sammydray5919 Yeah...People say it's a state instead of a transformation, but now it changes his hair color. Just like his SSJ forms.
Well the god forms are not dependant on anger (which is why Goku can stack kaioken with it) so it would be consistent with its established logic
But then again they made the hair white so it is basically super saiyan blue 2 anyway lmao
"shut up. thats the answer. shut up!" makes me laugh every time
7:06 Exactly! How did future Zeno not notice his servants being erased by Zamasu?
And that brings up another question.
Future Tournament of Power? Or is Zeno going to destroy everything since Goku didn't coincidentally make a suggestion of a tournament?
Or was it all a test to see if the universes get live as well? Oh who gives a shit.
To be fair, Goku also broke through Hit's time bullshit way earlier.
goku had to first comprehend hit's tecnique, jiren just brute force it with the power of terrible marketing.
@@slifer875 and Goku guessed where Hit was gonna land an attack on him
“im stronger than your ability to stop time”
The thing about Dragonball is that we complain til we're blue in the face about how badly it's written... but then one hype moment or cool character sucks you back in. Remember when Tien Ki Ko Hoed Cell? Remember Buu turning Dabura into a cookie and eating him? Remember laughing at everything Hercule does? Saiyaman? You'll be back, we always come back. We're dumb.
TheHoratiosvetlana it feels like an abusive relationship. The day to day events are awful and makes us angry and makes us where that we're going to leave. But the minute you reach a Breaking Point Dragonball does something cool or sweet and makes us forget all the stuff that happened before
I like it more due to the characters & how they interact. It's weird how much better the characters are written than the plot. That being said, the action is usually great too.
@@SUPERMATT5546 characters are not well written. especially Goku
Is it bad that I'm marking out super hard when Plague starts sarcastically describing Goku and Jiren's power levels?
Thank you for the snippets from the podcast. I love their conversations but to listen for 2 hours or more is a bit too much for me. I appreciate the work. Thank you.
So I've come to a conclusion recently.... Toriyama's a fucking hack but he's not a special hack, he's the exact same kind of hack as almost any other long-term mangaka because the series progressed towards the Frieza Arc where it was the good arc that everyone loved. And then they never STOPPED doing the Frieza arc because it was 'the good one'.
A new bald alien villain of some kind is introduced. They're super strong and after showcasing how tough every one of the other Z fighters is, they compare numbers with a powerful Z fighter by fighting them, leading to either the villain transforming and gaining the upper hand or the hero being useless and dying or sacrificing themselves for literally nothing. Either way, the villain is still standing as powerful as ever. Then, Goku (or Gohan once) shows up and gets beaten before transforming or unlocking a new form conveniently in time to fight the bad guy because they're SO strong that nothing else can scratch them other than an even more overpowered form or a random new way to use an existing technique we thought was pointless. Afterwards, the villain dies and they use the Dragonballs to reset everything because we just can't risk losing the fans of those characters and it all repeats all over again when the next threat comes out of literally nowhere.
It was cool when it happened with Frieza. Then it happened with Cell. Then it happened with Buu. Then with Beerus (despite surviving) and with Frieza again. And I'm not too far into Super, but I'm guessing it's going to happen with Hito, Goku Black, and Jiren as well. Goku fights the guy, they're too strong because their numbers are just SO big, and then insert power up and Goku just wins on his own without anyone else doing anything to directly contribute with little to no variation on this formula.
That's why Super feels so bad at times. Because the original series was already riding the fuck out of an already tired formula and they've just kept riding the same damn horrible formula even after what was acceptable storytelling evolved past that point. It's the same shit that happened to Bleach and Naruto when they just kept doing the same thing because "That's what the 'good arc' did", but in Dragonball, everyone just sort-of sits down and takes it more because it's the thing they grew up with and it looks flashy even though, if you examine what's happening, it's the same shit that's always been going on. We're just more aware of it now.
when it comes to actually drawing manga toriyama is so fucking far from being a hack. the cell arc isn't that similar to the frieza arc, either, and the piccolo arc was also an arc in which a powerful villain appears, goku gets ass kicked, levels up and wins the day.
"And I'm not too far into Super, but I'm guessing it's going to happen with Hito, Goku Black, and Jiren as well. Goku fights the guy, they're too strong because their numbers are just SO big, and then insert power up and Goku just wins on his own without anyone else doing anything to directly contribute with little to no variation on this formula." That's happened 0 times in Super.
You can break down anything into a formula lol that doesn't mean it's necessarily a bad thing.
@@ASHtheSLUGCAT You have to admit that by the time even the series itself is lampshading how obtuse and overly long the names are, you've gone a bit too far.
What is actually being gained by having another power tool to give Goku another transformation at this point? He pushed beyond his limits to go Super Saiyan, then he went even further beyond to hit Super Saiyan 2.... And then he went even FURTHER further beyond for 3 before finding a way to go even FURTHER further FURRTTHEERRRR BEYOND with his ultimate form of Super Saiyan God, where he literally approaches the power of an actual deity. But then he had to go even FURTHER further FURRRTHHEERRR FUUURRRTHHHHHRRRRRRRR BEYYOOONNDDDDD to reach Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, where Goku hits his most absolute perfect ultimate final form...!
And then Ultra Instinct happens and it's like... "Yeah. Cool. So what?" Goku's gone beyond being further further further further beyond and it's never been more obvious than ever how pointless and boring these transformations have been.
Nothing has changed since that initial Super Saiyan transformation. Goku hasn't picked up any techniques or abilities that change how he fights. All the feats are the same, it all feels identical. Vegeta is unlocking an entirely new transformation right now and I just can't even express how little I care because it's just a pallet swap at this point.
The villains don't feel threatening anymore because the show played its hand. There's only one solution for beating a big bad in Super, and it's transforming. So everything just turns into us waiting for Goku to eventually glow green or purple or black or whatever the next color is going to be so he can finally stop losing and have a normal fair fight again where he'll probably just curb-stomp them into the ground.
I really can't imagine watching the show being aware of that and NOT thinking it's a problem.
@robertbocchiere757 i’m a but late but lets sum it up. hit: goku becomes sooo strong that he is now stronger than hit’s ability to stop time!
goku black:well, not necessarily goku but it’s trunks! he gets this random ssj power up and a cool energy sword and beats the bad guy!
jiren:oh no this bald grey alien is sooo strong! only goku can beat him now! (and vegeta but yeah, he got folded and gave goku sum energy) hello ultra instinct! goku is now sooo strong with this completely original transformatio-er i mean, technique! hello white hair dye! goku mastered this transformatio-er.. i mean technique! he’s gonna beat jiren! oh no he’s out of stamina! hello frieza! we’ll beat this grey brick wall with the power of friendship! (well tbf, i guess frieza did help out in the last one..for like 1 minute.)
What hurts me the most about this Ultra Instict BS it's that not only the fact that it has been already done during the training with mr.Popo back in DB(He teaches Goku to use reflexes at a superhuman level which is basically what ultra Instict does plus a possible boost in power ) but also is that doesn't seem to be any different(except the eyes) from Mystic form Gohan.When it's all said and done DBS will go down as worse than even fucking DBGT
120593Gian Dbs is nothing but repeat of every shit we've seen already but with a shittier coat of paint.
Plague's sexual intensity when talking about these things is so funny.
17:15 Spain. I think I still have the original magazine.
The zaibatsu is dead.
Long live the zaibatsu.
This is the first thing I was able to listen too by them after they broke up.
That part with the rock IS in the manga. Also didn't they fucking establish that they can lower their power when they want to relax? When Trunks first appeared his PL was just 5!!
But if they don't ignore things that were established, they wouldn't have as much to bitch about. Dragon Ball has never been perfect, but it's not as bad as they love to make it seem.
Kenshiro was ultra instinkt before it became lame
*_+5 THJ Points._*
Jiren is so fucking strong, hes stronger than Jiren.
Ssgssbkx20uis . Dragon balls forms becoming math
in dragon ball goku gets shot in the fucking head by bulma... and he's just like ow!
This is why I fucking hate time traveling, it makes everything over complicated, at most flashbacks or people going back into memories where they cant change anything are ok in my book, I cringed a bit whey they used time traveling in nanatzu no taizai and time traveling killed Kurohime, made the story over complicated and it was just a mess in the end.
Is the Seven Deadly Sins Manga better than the Anime? When I saw the Anime I thought to myself "This is the single most boring and generic Shonen I have ever seen in my life I wish I watching Naruto and or Dragon Fairy Tale"
Time travel plots are so, so easy to mess up, but that's what makes them good when done right.
Take, for instance, Madoka Magica. The reason why a certain character isn't fucking up the universe with all kinds of paradoxes is because they're not going back in time so much as simply ditching one timeline for another similar one, and has been doing it so many times that it's starting to inadvertently fuck their mission up more and more every time. It works mainly because it's taking a route that objectively ignores the ever-complicating rules of time travel.
Jacob Smith Time manipulation as a key component is fine, time travel as a "we fixed everything" is downright disrespectful like in Charlotte when they ruined amazing character progression by going back in time and saving the trigger to the character progression
If you disliked how badly those handled time travel, you will HATE Age of Ultron and Future's End. Those two are ''JUST FUCK MY SHIT UP, FAM'' in terms of time travel bullshit. Just the fucking worst, especially Future's End which is just FILLED with filler bullshit.
Future Bulma got blacked.
I feel like Plague doesn't go nearly as hard on Super as he should but I appreciate the attempt.
Like seriously this is exactly as well written as Dragon Ball AF at this point.
GT is looking fucking amazing, and I despise that I just typed that.
Chuck Testa It didn't get any better, the bar simply found a way through the floor oards
Why is your pfp lovecraftian Barney the dinosaur
@@shady8045 Is actually Captain Underpants. I really need to change it, it's super old.
In this video we talk about a series we dont watch
And this is why i'm glad I never watched Super, dbz was when I stopped and i'm glad I did.
Mako Mankanshoku you should wash GT then it's pretty good.
770megaman No, it isn’t.
Why, though?
Mako Mankanshoku and yet u are here why exactly
Mako Mankanshoku DBZ had a lot of bullshit as wel
Remember when Kenpachi being just strong was perfectly fine
Star Flame Because early seasons of Shonen haven't requested we suspend our disbelief over a goddamn canyon. I stopped bleach after they save Rukia, because I enjoy haveing Kenpachi be some mysterious badass
SSGSS2KX20ISS is that what what we are gonna be up to?
You guys are forgetting Goku almost died to a laser gun in the Frieza movie
Someone get on that Best Friends fusion fan art.
No, Ultra Instinct is a new form. It's weird that he needs to go into this form every time to utilize a particular technique of movement, but it's still a new form. That is not his base state. And the
recent Mastered Ultra Instinct (the one with silver hair) reinforces this idea. Whether he can stack it on top of previous forms is a different matter.
Gogeta actually beat the villain tho, twice
I actually prefer Gogeta to Vegito, fuck me right.
Chuck Testa Me too. Gogeta has application. Vegito is more a last resort. Vegito is fun and cocky, but Gogeta does his work like nobody else. Fuckin 20 seconds top
@@malikoniousjoe but he's still cocky though
Lord Joker Yeah but that was a more recent retcon. In Fusion Reborn which I see as his one real appearance he says two lines then destroys Janemba with a humble smile to the kid afterwards.
GT treated him like Vegito and so did the new Broly movie, which is a shame to me because I liked that different fusions seemed to take different personality traits. Vegito was Vegeta’s pride and Goku’s playfulness while Gogeta was Goku’s righteousness and Vegeta’s stoicism.
Oh man, if only they still did the SBFC.
Kinnikuman started most of the shit Woolie thinks DB started, namely willpower-based power boosts.
So what you're saying is, Goku has gotten HUGE
Man I love Dragon Ball so much
Goku is defeated by a syringe. Was Goku Pat all along?
Didnt plauge make a weird db porn parody that involve petting?
.....what?
"what the fuck did i miss?!" apparently everything, woolie. apparently everything.