Keto is DANGEROUS if You Do It WRONG w/ Prof. Bart Kay
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- Buckle up for an info-rich interview that's about to turn your keto game on its head. Prof Kay dives deep, shedding light on the common missteps many encounter on their keto journey. Building on my previous chat with Dr. Cywes, Prof Kay adds layers to our understanding of protein, macros, and the sustainability of ketosis. He may challenge your beliefs, offering insights that could very well be the game-changer in your keto lifestyle. So, grab something to jot down notes with. This conversation is a goldmine for anyone looking to refine their keto strategy and push past those frustrating standstills.
3:32 Bart Kay's background and training
5:06 The difference between Clinical Data and Scientific Research
8:50 Carbs aren't essential but we need carbs to be healthy???
11:55 The need for exogenous carbohydrates
13:26 Too much protein?
18:42 We need an insulin bump every day
21:25 Max protein rule of thumb
24:35 Are you getting too much protein?
26:40 Keto can be dangerous
30:00 Does GNG stimulate insulin?
33:57 Is OMAD better than 2MAD?
37:25 What is GLP1?
41:29 There is no such thing as Insulin Resistance
47:55 What's better? High fat or High protein.
52:27 Keto done right is totally safe and appropriate for humans
You can find Prof Kay here:
Facebook: / bart.kay.health.science
RUclips: / @bart-kay
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Before his transplant my husband was Diabetic type 1, blood sugar would often go too low or too high. He was put on a very low carb diet and lower insulin commensurate to the diet and blood sugar test. His A1c went down to normal and stopped low blood sugar reactions. So no carbs were actually needed
i found the dairy free carni WOE after getting off oxycodone for chronic pain secondary to hypermobility type ehlers danlos syndrome. carni is where i landed due to the GI and brain damage that I now permanently have. I love your channel. so glad I came across it. I am now 45 and in the best shape of my life physically and mentally (even with the GI/brain damage). If only i had found carni when I first got sick at 19. I never would have gotten on opioids and damaged my hypothalamus permanently.
How did you like the constipation and restlessness and insomnia that comes with oxycodone? I was on it for 2 years after getting shot and the 2 surgeries that followed.
Great interview and information. Now please invite both Cywes and Bart to an interview so we can properly hear them "debate" the things they have a different opinion on.. Thanks again for an interview that answered some of the questions I had after the interview with Cywes.
You don't pick up on it right away, especially if you don't pay very close attention to their videos, but there's not much they disagree over.
@@craigslitzer4857 Yes! I agree with that. It's more of a clarification than a disagreement.
Both this video and the Cywes video have answered so many questions for me! I have been keto for 2+ years and have been stalled for about 6 months now (I have another 30lbs to lose). The last few months I have slowly gained about 10 lbs. I now realize that when I went "meat heavy keto" several months ago, I unintentionally doubled my protein and didn't increase my fat intake much. I do a lot of bicycling and burn a lot of calories, so I would just eat more and more (lean) steak to stop the hunger. I now see that this was the wrong thing to do and the excess protein was being converted to glucose and was being stored as fat! No wonder I gained weight! I'm going to go back to basics and use your ratio of 1.2 x lean mass and use that as my protein goal (while adding more fat for satiation) and see if that helps me start losing again. I'm also starting to do some strength training at least 2x a week. Thanks for providing this information!
I started eating some pats of butter for dessert if still ‘hungry’. If I’m truly hungry I can chow it down. Usually a couple pats satiate me. Bella (Steak and Butter Gal) and Kelly Hogan and Judy Cho have been talking about fat/protein ratios lately. I feel so much more peppy with more fat.
Do you fast. I bet you do. I've stalled ish. but has been putting muscle on. BF% on the cheap scale says so.
Try dry fasting if you need something else to try. Dont drink water if you don't feel thirsty. Cheat days or slight gourge days may help. Or take a week off from training. Try everything. Cold showers too, seemed to help me keep going with weight loss a few months ago. Those showers and deep breath keep stress lower for me
What is your fat to protein ratio now ?
@@MACTEP_CHOB I try to keep it simple these days. I try to keep my protein around 140g and my fat 170g or so. I am a woman, and women need more fat. I haven't lost any pounds since this post, but I do feel like I've had some body recomposition since then. I still do a lot of cycling, but haven't kept up with the weight training. I need to pick that up again and also work on managing my stress.
By large, this is the best video about ketogenic and carnivore diets video. Even when I follow doctor Bart in his channel, again this video is his best video. Thank you very much to both of you.
I cannot eat lots of food at once, so for me, two moderate meals work best. Eating too much in one meal has always upset my stomach and kept me from sleeping well (dinner). Thanks for the reassurance that I am doing it right!
I also can't eat a lot at one time, I just get full and can't eat anymore. I have 2 small meals and one regular. I never could understand how some women could eat a pound of meat at one time, I'm lucky to get 1/2 pound in at one meal.
This seems to be a common theme for women. I wish they would give us more of a perspective on that. I find I cannot eat that much meat in one sitting. I can do maybe 80 or 90 G but I should be doing closer to 150 or 160. I get so tired of eating just meat! I have to force myself and that doesn't seem right.
Grateful keto You should listen to dr. Chaffee. He says eat until it stops tasting good, don’t over do if your body doesn’t want it, it tells you bye it not tasting good
@@gratefulketo2211 quality matters a lot
Nobody will ever convince me that a diet of meats, organs and occasional vegetables is somehow unhealthy, because that’s what the human digestive system is designed to process.
Plants are trying to kill you.
@@chrisbr1969 I don’t give a fuck!
Veggies, no.
How something so natural can be bad for you opposed to manufactured?
@@janetbegelfor6223cyanide, arsenic, and hemlock are natural
Having an electrolyte problem occurring. How bad is it to have a 200 g of asparagus.
This is one of the best videos on this subject.
Why is all the best videos with Bart on someone else’s channel.
Reach, he couldn't figure out how to get people to pay attention to his channel is actually quite small all things considered.
When he started playing up a character for cross-channel drama suddenly people started coming... The exposure is already there when he's on other channels. + mimicking, matching whatever is appropriate for the channel viewership
I loved the interview. Also the one with Dr Cywes. How about a panel discussion between Prof Bart and Dr Cywes, and chip in Prof Noakes? That would be beatiful! Thanks coach!
The host is very respectful and asked the questions I was interested in which made the information very helpful.
Awesome interview thank you!!! Bart is the man!
Great information! When I first heard this guy Bart ,I didn't like him.But I listened to him a little more on podcasts and I love him now! He's so smart and helps a lot of people,me included! I guess it was the bashing he did. But now I see he's right about these speakers! Lol Yall are helping us so much! Thanks!
lol ikr? he takes awhile to grow on you
Professor Bart is an absolute top scientist and a pleasure always to listen to his straight , forward approach to the science . Also he is very generous and thoughtful with his response to our questions .
Great podcast full of good information .
Thank you both for a very good video and thank you for the effort you put in .
Looking forward to part 2.
👍👍👏👍✌️☺️
More scientific pieces to the good health and nutrition puzzle! I love Bart and his no nonsense, straightforward approach to the actual science of our bodies and proper nutrition! Please bring us more! 👏🏼💪❤️🥩
I have no flap on my valve at the bottom of my esophagus. I have to eat 2 times a day otherwise my food ends up in my throat. So far it works for me and I feel great.
Bart Kay always makes things clearer. I like Bronson’s statement that if excess carbs gave us metabolic diseases, how can adding back carbs “ fox” things when we can make our own carbs through gluconeogenesis.
5th. If the goal is to bump up glucose once a day, why should we prefer using excess protein in that meal and get the glucose via gluconeogenesis instead of just eating a few calculated grams of sweet potato?? Which process is more taxing on our metabolism?
Nothing, but very few people currently understand this or would be able to supplement with glucose in small doses. Carbs can be addictive, no doubt. Much easier for most to control by eating the same foods, and more appropriate for humans anyway. But you do you!
You do you😂
Excellent question…Because many of us are avoiding carbs because of the toxins the are packaged with, either natural in plant form or because of their processing. Same reasons you don’t consume any old fat
Yes I thought the same thing. If the goal is to get an insulin response once a day why can't a small amount of carbs be used with that one meal instead of eating excess protein to create gluconeogenesis response. Would like an explanation on that from Bart 🧸.
@@carrief6119 Because the body can be more precise with gluconeogenesis than with a carb dump of 100G of starch.
First and foremost, a ketogenic diet is an extremely low sugar diet. ~20-30 GRMS of sugars per day. Do not confuse this with a low-CARB diet that can be a much higher number of CARBS per day, maybe up around 100 GRMS of CARBS per day.
Very informative although the way Dr. Kay described the action (first on the control of glucagon receptors and production of glucose and then with a delay on the production of insulin and its use to lower the glucose produced in the first stage within the kidney), he possibly had SGLT-2 inhibitor in mind and not GLP-1 inhibitor?
I'm just a patient and have no medical degree but I have taken within the last two months both a GLP1 inhibitor with very bad results (and I stopped it), and now switched to a SGLT2 inhibitor. I'm grateful for the understanding of the resulting graphs of glucose and insulin and how the delay of signals from the kidney can create the delay of the peaks of glucose and insulin.
In this episode, I also found out the use of BUN/Creatinine ratio to lower my protein intake (being misguided by various "experts" to increase it given that I'm 70) and the first meal of 85/25 grass fed beef (from Nebraska) providing most of the protein with some special (l. reuteri) yogurt 200 grams (20 grams of protein) three/four hours before going to bed with the second dose of Cerule to go with it.
I liked his use of the height to guide how much would be adequate protein! I'm 71 cms. tall so I could take 50 grams of protein max in the first meal but given a higher BUN/Creatine ratio, I may have have to go for 30-40 grams and watch that ratio, as well as eGfR, along with A1C and the morning glucose. Thank you Coach for having Dr. Kay in your show.
How old are you that you are only 71 cm tall? I'm 5'2" and it's 155 cm
@@Lana-su5ww 71"
Awesome. Bart is one of my favorites when it comes to anything nutrition and human physiology related.
Same here! I'm grateful for the opportunity to collaborate with him. Definitely an underrated resource for intelligent diet and exercise advice!
What about an eating window?
I eat 2 meals in a reasonably tight 5hr window. First about noon. Second between 4-5pm.
Super awesome video! I’ve purchased your book and there is a ton of great information in there! I was wondering if you could comment on the question I have? I am an endurance athlete, cyclist. Some events that I compete in our up to 150 miles And in order to get this kind of endurance I do quite a few long training rides. Do you have any recommendations for athletes like myself concerning fueling long endurance rides and optimal fueling for competitive events? I have been doing zero carb now for about a month and enjoying lots of health benefits, feeling good and looking forward to doing more training with zero carbs. I realize that the full adaptation might take months and I’ll probably be surprised what my body can do creating its own glucose however my biggest question right now is about fueling while doing my activity. Thanks so much for any information on this!
I rode over 275 miles, with 24,000 ft in elevation gain, in under 48 hours, fueled entirely by beef, olive oil, and eggs.
This was stellar!! Thank you for this clear convo !
53:00 agreed! Once fat adapted and eating a high fat moderate protein food regimen, with intermittent fasting you can eat almost as much food as you want as long as you avoid large amounts of carbs/ sugars.
I second that idea! Been 125 pounds for 8 months stuffing myself with ketovore fatty meats!! My history was low fat, plant based and calorie restricted yo-yo dieting for 36 years!!!
Give me fatty meat with some dairy, olives, pickles, nuts and sauerkraut as CONDIMENTS 🎉🥩🍳🥓🧈
@@barblacy619 So glad to hear others success stories and how their health improved once eliminating sugar from their diet. I would not advocate this way of eating for everyone but some of us do better eating this way, and the science supports this food regimen much more than vegan or vegetarian eating.
It's a wonder our species has survived so long without knowing how to eat the right amounts of protein at each meal. 😀
I believe that's because our ancestors used to eat to satiety.
Right?? Esp without these scientists
@@CG-mj8tk LOL!
😅
The difference with them and modern man is that they ate to survive, we have the luxury of abundance so we are trying to find ways to thrive, to searh for the optimal human diet.
6th. Bart acknowledges that there is a limit of protein that one can use per meal, but he never gives a number because “it depends”, and the rest goes to glucose via gluconeogenesis. Then how are we supposed to use efficiently that protein if we eat all that in one or two meals? It seems to me that most would be transformed into glucose. Then why bother with that X amount of protein? All my questions are in search of the best animal based diet that will allow US to maximize hypertrophy as natural lifters. Strategic carbs or not? How many meals a day and with what limit to protein per meal? The 2 meals per day does not convince me at all.
Try one meal a day, and convince yourself.
Eat fatty meats , eat when you are hungry and stop eating when your meat doesn't taste as good anymore , listen to your body
7th One of the goals of ketogenic/carnivore diets as I understand them, is to try and lower/control blood glucose in order to avoid the activation of the Randle Cycle and therefore avoid atherosclerosis? If so, then it makes sense to bump out of ketosis only once per day because of the electrolyte issues. So, does this mean that maximizing hypertrophy via mTor several times per day and this whole idea are just incompatible??? Maybe it is the case and we have to choose.
I think you are 100% right on the purpose of the diet as discussed above, however no expert on mTor apart from some info long ago from D Sinclair.
@@hdv333 Thank you for all your thoughts. I would think that if the goal of the diet is to control blood sugar, then too much gluconeogenesis multiple times a day though good for hypertrophy would sabotage the goal of blood sugar control. Maybe the only way to figure all this out would have to be a CGM and testing n=1. =/
I agree with you, that is why I am a Carnovour. I realise the function of insulin but my aim is to keep it low. I do not eat any carbs
Nice Interview. I still feel there are some points that are not clear. For athletes and hypertrophy enthusiasts, to maximize muscle protein synthesis we are supposed to activate mTor several times a day. Between 3 to 5 times per day depending on the person you talk to. How are we supposed to do that if we only eat 2 times per day as Bart mentions?
All good questions. I'll be doing a wrap up video soon, and I'll try to answer them.
@@coach.bronson Thank you. That would be awesome. I still have one more I will write in a second. I find too many conflicting details among experts. Bart Kay, Paul Saladino, Stephanie Person, Gabrielle Lyon among others. Clarification with some data to support would be awesome indeed.
@@coach.bronsonYes, please clear this question up as best you can, if you please. Thank you.
Coach Greg just pushed me out of the matrix and doesn't even know it, this is awesome knowledge, and I really appreciate it!
Good info. I definitely will try to increase my protein intake with one huge and a smaller meal instead of occasionally supplementing with electrolites.
Regarding 1.6 grams protein per calorie, I read a scholarly article that indicated that this is true for animal protein sources, but not true for even the best plant proteins. If memory serves, Lucien was the limiting amino acid that forces the entire dietary input to be protein for 100% plant protein.
SAD is dangerous any way you do it.
By design.
The scariest thing for me with carnivore or keto is that I am doing it wrong and thus causing more bad then good. For the average person, not someone at the gym all day, how can we know we are doing well? I love the conversation and information but some of it just makes it scarier that it is too complicated and most of us just walk away with more worry. It has to be simplified or most people WONT be able to sustain it. We think we are doing well, feel great, numbers good, then bam another video. Not to say this is not great info but it would be nice to get the simplified answer at the end of it all
@@CAMDEC1217 just eat all the fat that came with the meat! Don't cut any off; eat it as well! Eat till you're full, then stop.
The main points I got were:
1) you need to eat around 1 g protein per lb of lean body mass.
2) you must not avoid fat and it's the combination of protein and fat that "works."
3) omad will result in a desired insulin response, but if you need to eat separate meals then at least have a main meal. 4) carbs are completely unnecessary.
5) if you're eating the correct amount of protein per lean body and fat to satiety, it's impossible to overeat.
6) no cave drawing ever showed a human tracking macros. 😆
@@@oglelaura Yyyepps! You nailed it! Also, eat till you're full, never remove fat & add extra!
I can relate to the stress and confusion when living a low to no carb lifestyle. I have made many errors with Keto but every time I went back to carbs I felt like poop. With all the info out there it is hard to jus stuck with one method for a period of time. Now I am at a spot where I am so in tune with how my body reacts to food that I use their info more as guidelines that can absolutely be tweaked to my own body's needs. Thats not to say that I am still learning and feel clueless at times. I hope this helps. Good luck in your journey of health and vibrance.
@@Kya_._Papaya thanks for your reply. Helpful!! I have gardened my whole adult life and can not for the life of me imagine life without it. I don't seem to have any trouble eating vegetables, of any kind. My focus is to minimize and eliminate the "bad carbs" which for me is sweets. I just can't do the extreme in either direction whether it be ALL meat or ALL vegetables, regardless of the hype
Stephanie person is 55 and claims Shes been keto since early 40s. She looks amazing. Watch her video on why Carnivore long term doesn't work. Maybe you could interview her.
I’m very curious about that as well. She looks fantastic. If it’s true. And it very well might be
Yup. Steph has helped me a lot 👍🏻
True, but Steph acknowledges some issues that come up with keto.
@@aussiesam01 oh wow this was a year ago. I'm doing lion diet. I'm following Dr Lisa Wideman. I think that's how you spell her last name. Stephanie's way and carnivore made me gain weight. I'm 50 and premenopaus. I relate to dr Lisa who is 59. I just eat too much and doing the lion diet keeps me from doing that.
Excellent discussion! Thank you.
I eat omad and would need to double my protein to meet this guide. Holy moly. Thats like 4 sausages, 4 bacon rashers, 4 eggs.
2nd. How much protein can we use in one meal without reaching the threshold that would then take excess protein and transform it via gluconeogenesis into glucose?
Some people talk about 22g of protein as a limit. If that is the case, would this be enough to activate mTor and muscle protein synthesis? 22g of beef protein do not reach the 2.5 - 3g Leucine recommended to elicit muscle protein synthesis. So what to do? Supplement some extra BCAAs? Eat more than the 22g of protein in the meal?
self experimentation time! different people say different things. I've heard 30g to as high as 150g.... As a general rule I try to get people to stay at least above 50g per meal.
Thank you professor Bart, I have bèn so confused, I been on keto for about year and just went on carnivore 4 about month now. I was dropping 2 to 3 kg per week but watched another sports guy said must never do weights without carbs , yep silly me listen to it and ate 50 gm carbs day off and 100 gm carbs wor day waah started putting weight back on around my guts tummy wasn't growth. So clear5 some guys don't have a clu
Thank you for the very informative videos. I learn a lot, but I still get confused by the information. I would really hear some info on prevention of hair loss.
most common cause is under-eating, especially not getting enough protein.
Or fat. Listen to Stephanie person or Steak and Butter Gal. She’s helped her hormones and hair by eating 1-2 sticks butter every day.
Protein here is defined as actual protein content of food?not the total weight of the food?
This video is extremely helpful for those people who have been in keto carnivore long term it all makes sense. Listen to your body it will let you know if something is wrong, follow your instinct its the reason we humans are still around as apex predators.
Great discussion. Been listening to Ted Naiman who reckons we should up our protein content and pull back drastically on the fat intake, which surely would result in the bloodwork problems mentioned in this video. He's known for the PE diet (protein to energy (fat), and keeping energy low). I think it's aimed at people who are struggling to lose weight on keto. I'm the opposite - trying to gain a bit of weight to support muscle building so I'll stick to high fat carnivore
my BUN/creatinine is always high but my protein is not over 100g. I am 145 pounds woman, 60 years.
There is absolutely no way I can eat enough w/ OMAD while trying to eat enough food per day to support muscle gain while training hard with barbells 3x a week. Ave macros are 185p 205f 40c (mostly from milk). Body slowly re comping. Even in a supposed “calorie” surplus, scale does change much. Might have to start just drinking heavy whipping cream to get more in. Its unreal lol.
I started making ice cream to help get it in. 1 pint heavy whipping cream, 2 tablespoons of vanilla and (if you want) 1/2 cup of allulose. Put it in the freezer for a day to harden. Delicious!
Same here. I would need to double the size of my meal
Bart is not a professor currently, here’s his work experiences:
1. Manager, Human Performance Laboratory, Massey University (from 2004-2006).
2. Lecturer - Sport Science, at Bay of Plenty Polytechnic (Jan 2007 - Nov 2007) at Tauranga, New Zealand.
3. Senior Tutor - Sport Science at The University of Auckland, Australia, (Dec 2007 - Feb 2011).
4. Product and Scientific Advisor, for 'StemTech Health Sciences' in Auckland, New Zeland, (Apr 2011 - Nov 2011).
5. Associate Lecturer at University of Central Lancashire, UK (Sep 2012 - Jul 2013).
6. Senior Lecturer in Clinical Physiology at HE University Sector, UK (Sep 2013 - Sep 2016).
As for Bart's education, he states:
- Fairfield College (from 1986 - 1990), unknown/not specified educational degree.
- Master's degree - Exercise Physiology from Waikato Institute of Technology, NZ (1999-2003)
'Professor' is the title of a university appointment, at least in Australia, so it's a stretch for him to bestow it.
Bart is smarter than the average bear 😀
Your doctor has a better resume- and all his lifetime patients are sick...get heart disease, diabetes, cancer- he sells them pills, then they die. What say you?
Excellent interview
Excellent interview, however, I am dismayed that although you asked the questions about menopausal women you moved on to other topics without addressing them.
ruclips.net/video/ISLBoi0rehs/видео.htmlsi=vt2oTfwaesBjQMw0
@@coach.bronson Excellent! Thank you. I watched it and of course is contrary to much of the other information out there.
what is the minimum amount of protein and fat that will stimulate enough insulin in one meal?
I stuck with this to the end, the prof. is obviously very clever, but it was so technical it got me lost. So can I eat a small amount of carb with my fat and protein, if so when and how much?
10:49 hang on doesn't Bart's partner, Pim, require carbohydrates in her diet so she doesn't get debilitating head aches? Would like Bart to reconcile that statement.
Great information.
beef and lamb are roughly 7/8 th protein/fat…..so eating those dont need extra fat then such as butter or eggs?
That's how I do it. Eggs are amazing too.
Sorry, I didn't quite catch his recommendation for how much fat to eat. He said 66/33 then said 7/8 protein 1/8 fat. Did you figure out what he's actually recommending there?
I think the plate analogy respected that meat has fat in the tissue
Is the GLP1 message sent to the brain via the vagus nerve? I had a vagotomy years ago. How does that change the signals?
Our ancestors didn’t count macros…
@@rtay0311 our ancestors also didn't work 9:00 to 5:00 have a manufactured roof over their head food in the grocery store or have to go to the gym for their physical activity. Everything about the substance of food in the environment was also different then. Even if that was a 100% valid argument in modern society. Why would anyone be against having data to know what they're doing and how it's affecting their health and progress? The argument against tracking is not helping anyone when tracking is an absolutely beneficial tool that enables millions of people to see progress that they would otherwise fail
@@coach.bronson because there’s a lot of work and preparation in that too. For many people who are looking for simplicity along with health it doesn’t make sense
@@coach.bronson I’m only speaking for me of course. I do keto/carnivore for about 10 months. I’m leaner than ever. I feel great. A lot of these doctors I watch want ppl to go get bloodwork every 3 months or what not. For me it’s like I might as well eat what I want and take the pills they offer if I’m gonna have lab work all the time. To each their own, but for me I just eat whole food, mainly red meat and eggs. Train hard daily, I work a hard physical job as well. And the simplicity of only thawing meat, grilling and frying and cracking eggs is the best part.
Fantastic video and information. I'm surprised that 75g of protein per meal is not considered enough. It seems like a healthy portion of protein for the stomach to work on in one sitting. Double that amount feels excessive to me. It's also confusing because some other keto docs say max 40g protein per day.
I heard weight watchers invented the calorie in calorie out method, which is wrong and when asked (by thousands) if WW would ever do keto they said heck no never!
Using gluconeogenesis (following a higher than immediately utilised protein bolus) to 'kick you out of ketosis' daily confuses the hell out of me. I did not think ketosis can be switched on and off in such a short time frame. Once out of ketosis, I thought it took several days to get back into a ketonic state. Therefore how can people say that the ideal situation is gluconeogenisis kicking you out of ketosis daily?
He is talking specifically about the gradient of ketosis, to which point that the insulin response to a large bolus of protein initiates optimal electrolyte homeostasis
Ketosis and being ketogenic are two very different things.
@@coach.bronsonthanks for the reply. Over my 2 years of experimentation on LCHF diets, I found having a daily single bolus of protein (that met my daily protein requirement calc similar to your macro calculations) resulted consistently in fasted ketones below 0.5 and high fatigue / very low energy and hunger. However, taking that same OMAD portion of food and splitting it over 4 meals per day results in a dramatic increase in my energy and less hunger between meals. Fasted Ketones are then over 2.0 due to the lack of gluconeogenis.
I'd love to be able to survive effectively on OMAD due to its simplicity and convenience, but doesn't work for me, leaves be exhausted. Even 2MAD doesn't help me much.
FYI Stephanie Keto Person would strongly disagree with the notion that long term ketosis is dangerous, based on her 15 years experience.
All in all, this space has become very confusing with dramatically differing views.
@@paulwiffin2452 that is exactly why finding what works best for you is important. You can listen to all of the experts in the world but if it's not working for you then their opinion doesn't matter.
@@coach.bronson thanks and yes, I agree. But now I get concerned when people as knowledgeable as Bart and yourself are saying being in long term ketosis is dangerous. Bart didn't say what "long term" actually means (eg is it 1 week, 1 month, 6 months etc) and also why its dangerous. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to reply.
My son is underweight and wants to gain
He is mainly carnivore because he is sensitive to a lot of foods. He also has chronic fatigue. What could he do better?
Without knowing all the details. Eating more is a good bet. Strength training and adequate recovery are recommended. Most importantly, patience. Building muscle mass takes time and consistency.
Magnesium for the CF
3rd. If we are to eat more protein per meal, lets say 50g to be sure to elicit muscle protein synthesis and we do this multiple times a day, lets say 3 to 5, wouldn’t this take us out of ketosis many times per day? Would this be a bad thing? Why or why not?
Protein will increase insulin, but will also increase glucagon at the same time.
It is the insulin:glucagon ratio that is important.
Protein and fat combined cause about a 1.3:1 ratio.
When you consume CHO, especially processed CHO and fat, this ratio will increase through the roof.
Watch and listen to Dr. Ben Bikman, he’s a guru in this area.
Your body will preferentially use fat for energy once you are fat adapted and only under fight or flight conditions, that is high to very high intensity exercise will you body possibly use protein for energy, more so if you’re not fat adapted.
Jeff Volek done a great study on fat adapted athletes and showed their muscle glycogen levels were the same as CHO eating athletes.
Yes, and that's the goal.
@@coach.bronson Hi. Thanks for the answers. I see 2 different cases here. In one answer, you stand on the 2 meal a day with 160g protein and PMS no pb. Cool... But here you say that is ok to split in several smaller meals. But wouldnt that keep us out of ketosis too much time of the day? Thank you.
I understand that the goal is overall body, hormonal and all other things to balance out and no one believes that our ancestors were worried about ketosis or not. The most important is to get the right mixture of fat and protein and that would change during a day and seasons so that all of us would have to listen to the body and adjust the ratios as we go along.
@@roguecolossus8833 that would keep you out of ketosis if you were to overconsume protein at each meal. However as prof pointed out any amount of fat/protein used for gluconeogenesis is always going to raise your glucose level to far lower extent than any amount of carbs you consume. He used word sugar as all carbs become sugar sooner or later.
It really does make sense to have as few meals a day as possible.
The fewer meals we have, the list we tend to eat
When I was on the weight watchers diet they suggested that we have three meals a day and up to three snacks a day
I ate an awful lot of carbohydrates and a lot of food in general and became totally obsessed when I was going to have my next meal or my next snack
I triy to eat as much red meat as possible and the thing is, I don't really like meat without vegetables so it is very easy for me to not overeat
But I can't eat one meal a day as I have atrial fibrillation and if I don't eat three meals a day I have an episode
But what I can do is have one large meal a day and two smaller meals
If you look at the top 10 countries in the world based on longest lifespan or lowest rates of obesity, their diets by far contradict both carnivore and keto diets as the key component to a healthy lifestyle. In fact, there is really nothing that points to one diet being better than the other, except they are for the most part varied. I would be very interested to see the methodology on how these strictly controlled laboratory experiments were performed, what the results were and how those results were interpreted.
India has an average annual intake of about 4 kg of meat per year, the highest rates of diabetes and CV disease. Life expectancy of 69. Hong Kong has the highest meat consumption in the world at around a lb of meat a day, and are the most long lived. Insulin resistance is the biggest risk factor for heart disease.
Thank you for posting. Iv got lost in all this info about keto fat addapted info on youtube et….this was very clear, now I know how to do.🤩❤️🔥
Just curious what would be a decent creatinine, bun *any other blood ratios* that we should be working within for a range? Especially physically active younger people? Thanks very much!
going off the normal ranges listed in the results should be sufficient based on what Dr. Cywes and Prof Kay have both said.
@@coach.bronson seems I'm in trouble. All those markets are significantly higher than the reference ranges and have been for the last few years o.o
By being “out of ketosis” does Bart mean that, should you test ketones, it will show zero? Or is there a better way to know that the protein in the meal was sufficient to put you out of ketosis?
Anything below .5mmol is considered not in ketosis
@@coach.bronson I thought that just meant your body was efficiently utilising most of the ketones it is producing? Maybe I am confused over the difference between being fat-adapted and in ketosis. I’ll do more research. Thanks.
Im so fucking confused now.
keep your eyes out for my follow up video in a few weeks!
When you say 66/34 protein to fat do you mean by grams. Example 100g would equal 66g of protein and 33g fat or is it the other way around. I am a 100% Carnivour. Would you please answer that. I train with weight and always looking to improve body mass nice and lean.
ruclips.net/video/YekVcTxq_zk/видео.htmlsi=wqK4c-AeOWFLOEW0
I would guess that is a percentage split. So it's basically 2:1 fat to protein.
I've been trying to figure it out myself too. If I want to be 100kgs but 12% body fat. That's 88kg of lean mass. Protein intake therefore using 1.75-2x lean body weight would be 154-166g of protein. Using this 66/34 split, let's call it 2:1 for ease. That would be 308-332g fat.
Now I know calories are a dubious thing but that would put me between 3,388-3,652 calories a day.
Bearing in mind I'm currently probably 100kg but 30%bf.
I'm not sure if that's the best approach but mathematically it makes sense if we assume I need to consume those grams of fat, as opposed to my body using its own fat stores, which I am also assuming would be required to lose fat and increase lean mass.
very interesting BUT if I follow the advice about protein and fat amount I think I would starve myself. I weight 60 kg (132 pound). Lean body mass would be around 50 kg so protein intake should be between 87.5 and 100 g according to Bart Kay. If I was to eat top blade steak for example I would reach those values with an amount of only 320-365 gram of cooked meat and then add 65-70 g of butter to have the 1 to 1 proportion of fat to protein in gram (around 70 to 30 in percentage for energy). I would only get 1170-1290 kcal in total!! Did I misundertand something??
I have the same question as I’d be around 1090 cal per day.
I weigh 120 lbs and need 1.25 to 1.5 lbs of hamburger plus 2 eggs a day to even maintain my weight so that makes no sense to me either. (80/20 meat 1200cal/lb) I’m not an athlete.
No. 1 gm per kg
How can you still remain diabetic on Keto or carnivore if the carb is low in keto?
4th. If we are trying to remain in ketosis most of the time and get out of ketosis only once per day. It seems that it is impossible to elicit muscle protein synthesis multiple times a day unless we have several low protein meals supplemented with Leucine. And then we have 1 meal where we intentionally bump up glucose to bump up Insulin. Does this make sense?
MPS is an on-going process especially if you're working out. Post workout MPS can last up to 48 hours. Protein can take up to 8 hours to digest and be absorbed. A 160g bolus of protein could theoretically provide a sufficient insulin response and 6-8 hours of consistent amino acid supply for MPS. 1-2 meals of adequate protein per day is plenty.
@@coach.bronson You mean 160g of protein or of meat? I would imagine you are talking about grams of protein in the case of 1 meal a day. That would mean around 640 grams of meat which can be eaten in OMAD style for sure. Still in your video with Dr. Robert Cywes he talks about the importance of spliting meals to avoid too much gluconeogenesis. So the question still remains. 3 to 5 meals with maybe 4 smaller and one large meal vs 1 to 2 meals... Which is better for PMS and at the same time metabolically healthy?
Intriguing question. If larger protein meal elicits insulin secretion, wouldn't gluconeogenesis be suppressed? Insulin presence suppresses glucagon, no?
So, omad is what's best correct? But, isn't it hard to eat that much protein at one sitting? As in 1gram per lb of body weight...
Getting adequate food in a day is what's best. If that isn't happening then when you eat doesn't matter.
@@coach.bronson thank you!😊
As a tall guy ....a meal of 150 gm protein is huge meatfest
awesome info, thank you!
Wow! 🤯 Fantastic information!
many people on here and in the gym have told me keto is only for weight loss, i laugh at them, its for a healthier me and im still building lean muscle, as i lose weight..
IMO people who watcth these videos tend to overreact. Remove the word Keto and you have a low carb lifestyle which is again IMO and experience, healthy for me. We all need to find our comfort level withwhat makes us feel our best. I don't even care about Ketosis. I just eat low carb whole foods that vary, and it works for me. It helps to be a person who is willing or enjoys eating fatty fish / seafood and vegetables such as cabbage or brussel sprouts. It takes a lot of trial and paying attention to your body over time and this is where I have found my comfort level. Those who tend to have food texture issues or tend to not like many things will have a problem because they will eat only the same few things,
So what is the fat grams to protein grams ratio ? Got confused.
Start here. ketodiet-getstarted.com/
@@coach.bronson yeah without context from me ooopps. Great web page you have.
he's literally saying eating too much protein will hurt your kidneys. Goodness
Gluco-neo-f***ing-genesis
😂😂😂
i eat about 300g protein/day and 250g fat. i am very active and trying to gain muscle. my fasted glucagon levels have dropped to 10 and my fasted insulin is around 4. i use a CGM and my blood sugar never bumps up more than 15 points after a meal and i fluctuate between low 50s and high 90s throughout the day. does this mean it is too much protein? i feel so hungry and when i increase my fat, i don't feel satiated. i weigh about 130# and based on tape measurements and calculators i am about 23% body fat b/c I carry it in my belly. i am 5/6" and 45 years old. my BUN/creatinine = 13.13 with my BUN = 13, creatinine = 0.99
I hope he answers this I’m curious! I would think your sugars are excellent. Mine are a bit higher. And they never go so low which is frustrating
@@CG-mj8tk I do some kind of moderate intensity activity for at least an hour before each of my two meals. And then for about an hour after each meal I don’t sit down. I do house work and anything else I can do standing. That may be part of why my bg is fairly low. But my A1C hovers around 5.4 because of my pain level during the day and at night which disturbs my sleep. During a real bad pain week my bg will giver closer to high 80s -90s.
Btw, I have hypermobility type ehlers danlos syndrome so being inactive is just about the worst for me. Sitting still and relaxing just increases my pain 🫣
@@Snapkrackpop ah I see. It’s good you found some things to help!
Does th carnivore help at all with the pain?
@@CG-mj8tk carnivore has been life changing for me. I was left with a lot of GI and hypothalamus damage from over 20 years of high dose opioids. I got off all sedatives and opioids 5 years ago and dairy free carnivore is where i landed about 3 years ago. Can’t imagine eating any other way ever again. I do the “happy” dance every time I sit down to eat. Just polished off a 16oz strip and 8oz of brisket all cooked in duck fat. Yummy.
I need to eat carbs at a rate of 20grams per 30 minutes at 200watts on a bicycle. I am a type 1 diabetic.
Explain please
Good questions!!
The exception is type 1 diabetics who need carbs because they are injecting insulin. Otherwise they will die? Insulin is injected as a replacement for what would be secreted naturally by the Pancreas. So surely your goal as a type1 diabetic is to get as close to matching that natural response with synthetic insulin as possible. You don't inject insulin periodically then eat carbohydrate to counter that. This logic seems backwards to me. Context, I'm type 1, eat very few carbs and I'm not dead
How do you determine what your lean body mass is?
There's lots of ways to get that information. You can use a rough method of using tape measurements, you can get an at home body composition scale, which is what I do. There's a link to an InBody in this description. You can go get a DEXA scan.
@@coach.bronson I'll have to look into one of those options. Thank you for listing all those out... One other thing, just to clarify, is it best to start out with your protein and fat (in grams) on a 1:1 ratio? At one point, Bart said 66% to 33% and then said a 1:1 ratio. Kind of left me a bit confused.
@@patrickchastain2489 63% 33% is roughly about 1:1 in most cases. I don't like using percentages though actual quantities of nutrition works better for me.
@@coach.bronson Awesome! I'm glad we're on the same page. Thank you for providing clarity on that. I was starting to think that I needed to consume 2 grams of fat for every 1 gram of protein. That would have been way too much fat.
Gluconeogenesis has a rate limit. This is why marathon runners can "bonk"/"hit the wall". So for SOME exercise/sport gluconeogenesis can do its job well, but not ALL exercise/sport.
Recently proven false by the guy who just ran five marathons in five days FASTED. Runners will absolutely hit a wall if they're carb loading for Glucose though.
@@sharfalor4244 I do wonder how fast the human body can release free fatty acids into the bloodstream during intense anaerobic exercise when fat adapted. Maybe the human body can’t even exercise hard enough to reach that rate limit. I haven’t really researched it.
There must be something wrong with this theory of having to bump one's insuline once a day by large amount of proteins!!! Then either i am doomed to die of kidney failure or i have to go back to carbs. ❗️❗️
I am 177cm and i weigh 58kg. There is no way i can eat more thna 40gr of protein per sitting. I have 3 meals/day for get to about 120gr of protein a day.
If i try 1 or 2 meals/day i have lots of bloating and diarrhoea in the morning. Plus, i get to feel fungry through the day.
I love and respect prof. Bart immensely hence this information is now causing me slepless nights. I habe texted him via fb, i have asked in carnivore groups... i have to get reassurance that this is not true! 🥺
40 g of protein in a meal is probably fine. Everyone's different. The concept of breaking ketosis is what's important not how you do it. Doing high intensity exercise will do the same thing. Kidney issues because you eat more protein isn't really an issue. That's not something to worry about unless you already have kidney problems. It's not as dire or complicated as it sounds.
@@coach.bronson thank you very much for your reply. i will continue to look into this matter as i think i don't want to go through the trouble of breaking ketosis. I am also thinking of all those kids with epilepsy or diabetics who are not supposed to break ketosis. There must be a way to have 3 meals and not develop leaky kidney due to continuous ketosis.
@@anjaplazoniccoulson1086 there is, do hard work out a few days a week. 👍💪
@@coach.bronson which i try to do! 💪
Not saying all these words from Mr. Kay are not correct but this talk of ketones at such a low, low level over an extended time frame, is very very *extreme* to say the least. A *keto diet is actually around 20-40 GRMS of sugars per day* ... Such a low number of sugars per day is almost *impossible* for 99% of us to accomplish. Two apples a day would put you outside a *true keto* way of eating.
I average 66% fat to 33% protein too 👍🏾
I've been carnivore for a couple years and I think that's enough. I look at the way the human race was eating pre-agrian era and think I can do that. Basically eating meat fruit and veg that would have been available10,000+ years ago and only when in season and harvested myself in the wild.
Fats from what if your meat isn't balanced. Butter? Bacon? ??? List of, would be helpfull. ❤
Yes you can have bacon, butter
Watching from Australia. This was good, thanks for sharing; I found it helpful, I am still trying to get my carnivore diet working well. I think, fat is important.
Such a good interview!
❤
This is all fascinating as hell. I've been on the Fruit Loops diet (you eat several bowls of Fruit Loops cereal for breakfast, lunch and dinner) for a long time now. My understanding is that Fruit Loops is mostly protein, so why have I become morbidly obese? I don't get it, do I need to add something even more nutrient dense, like Doritos or Reese's peanut butter cups?
😂🫣🤣😵💫🫡🖖
You need to add some doo doo mate
"Why the plateau? Why the lack of progress? She's got answers."
She? Wtf? That description is weird.
Fixed it. 😂
Great interview, thanks
34:13 It is so unrealistic to eat a kilo or more of meat in one sitting though
what should i be using for my fat intake? i find that ghee and butter break me out.
Guutenks you could use beef tallow or lard…so strange that ghee would have you break out…🤔
Best wishes…
@@tomschmitt8561 yeah dude its unfortunate and hey question. I didnt really get what bart was explaining. If im 5'10 and 140 how much protein and fat should i be taking?
@@guutenks2498 man, I wish these guys would dumb it down for stupid Americans like me, I actually got my calculator out and I got so confused I gave up…I’m 5’11 175 lbs, when I did all my conversions and calculations I came up with that I should be eating either 4.58 ounces or 8.xx lbs of meat per day, pretty sure neither is correct…I had been keto OMAD for 5 years only doing carnivore 3 weeks (feeling great)…
I tend to eat about 1.75-2 pounds of meat and half a dozen eggs and sorry to report this to you, about 3/4 stick of butter a day…
@@tomschmitt8561 hahah glad i wasnt the only one confused as fuck. And damn ok, ill see how it feels to up the fat with tallow.
How are you I’m glad you guys look at things based on health and nutrition. I was a little worried when I saw the coach part. I see so many people doing keto and carnivore videos that are bodybuilders and they set a goal of building huge muscles and working out excessively. But from my research over the last year and a half that I’ve become obsessed with I just don’t see that as healthy. Working out is good and bodybuilding is OK but trying to feed excessively to build muscles doesn’t seem healthy. Increasing moderately is OK but I see these people eating 12 eggs and 35 or 40 ounces of beef every day and must anyway I look at it that’s excessive even if you’re burning off and not gaining weight. Maybe I’m not understanding it.
The other thing that confuses me is the energy. I understand with carbs you have to carbo load to get energy because you’re burning it and you’re going to crash but being fully fat adaptive your energy should be coming from key tones and blood glucose which your liver should be able to make as fast as you need it from stored food reserves or body fat or protein in your system so I don’t see why somebody bully fat adaptive would need to eat before working out as long as they had some fat on their body.
I would like to put on more muscle mass, my knees are shot and I have a bulged disc and sciatic issues so I have to limit the way I work out and mostly I walk and use smaller weights with more repetitions and I have to do a lot of it laying down to keep my back from going out and I have been able to restore my core impact on some muscle but yes for as much as I’m working out I feel like I should be putting on more but I’m also 54 now so I’m sure that changes things. I also noticed that my creatinine levels were incredibly low on my last blood test. I don’t remember the exact number but I think normal was but I know the low end of the scale was .6 and I was at about .4. Of course my doctor said don’t worry about it because it’s only for checking your kidneys but being that I exercise every day I was expecting that should be higher. I researched it and figured I should probably take 45 g of creatine a day with what a little bit of L-carnitine. But I wonder if I’m not eating enough protein. I’m not sure how to calculate my body mass because I’ve lost 180 pounds in 16 months and I still need to lose another 50 or 60 pounds I think. I am a little under 6 feet tall and right now I’m about 249. I try to eat two meals with about 4 to 5 ounces of meat per meal, if I only one oh add a little extra meat. Other than that I eat small amounts of vegetables usually cabbage or leafy greens or cruciferous vegetables but I usually tuna for lunch made with Mayonnaise they make with avocado oil and egg mustard and lemon juice and I add some onions and celery to that and eat it with a small amount of leafy greens and sometimes throw in a little bit of fermented carrots or sprouts I grow from a mix of radishes and broccoli sprouts and a few others. Then for dinner I usually have a little bit of cabbage or cruciferous vegetable or sometimes just the meat and sometimes a little cheese, they usually aim for about 5 ounces of grass fed beef, usually hamburger with 20% fat ratio and sometimes I’ll mix a pound of ground beef with a pound of liver and spread that over six meals which should be about 5 ounces a meal. That’s the core of my diet and occasionally I’ll add different vegetables or I have salmon instead of tuna or chicken wings instead of the beef and then on the extra two meals a week and I have a steak or maybe a pork shoulder steak or the chicken wings and according to my blood test I’m doing very good and I’m not deficient in any nutrients and I get the feeling that for muscle I should probably add a little protein or a little more meat but I’m still trying to lose weight and I’m otherwise feeling good. The only thing wrong with my blood is my LDL cholesterol is about 144 my total cholesterol is 207 but my doctor worries about that I really don’t and he wanted to put me on statins but I explained about the LDL particle density size and showed him the revised American Heart Association research from I think 2008 here 2019 where are they included the particle density size and he reluctantly agreed but I don’t see were statins do any good anyway and I’ve cured my heart disease and gotten rid of all my meds and my blood pressure is in a very healthy range especially for my age so I’m not worried about that. The only thing I really worry about at this point is if I’m getting enough Protane at what is probably 8 to 12 ounces a day and I’m not quite as worried about the fat content because I’m still losing so much weight but I am still building my soul just not nearly as fast as I hoped I would and I’m really not sure how fast because whenever I worked out before it was either part of my job or I was lifting heavier weights now I’m doing a ton of reps with 5 pound dumbbells and 10 pound dumbbells sometimes but with my back I’m pretty limited so I just do a ton of reps and do it pretty much every day, To wear before I lift it heavier weight and did that three or four days a week. So there’s always that question of whether or not I’m eating enough protein and the calculations all seem to be bye your weight but I still got an extra 50 or 60 pounds of fat on me at least so I’m assuming my number should probably be lower but when I calculate it about 5 ounces of meat with a 20% fat ratio twice a day or 10 ounces per day seems about right for me but though I’m doing well I still feel like I should probably have more as far as building muscles but I just don’t understand how that works because when I read the science i’m not sure where proteins fits in because if you have excess fat to burn and your blood glucose is always fine and being that I never have high or low blood glucose my liver seems to be functioning properly and I don’t get weak when I work out, eventually the muscles tire from use but I don’t feel drained or malnourished or tired that way and being that I’m producing key tones and usually work out in the morning before I eat and I can produce as much glucose as I need I just don’t see why I would need to add more proteins to build muscles because it seems like my body should just burn as much fat as it needs to get what it needs to feed the muscles but my creatinine levels are pretty low I think it was .4 or .5 and I think the low level was supposed to be .6. My doctor says that’s great but he only cares about my kidney function and that’s good that my kidney function is working well but I’m wondering if I need to take some creatine with l-carnitine or eat more meat or should I just keep going. I don’t really care about building large muscles for bodybuilding as much but I would like to build some more muscle mass and it just seems to be building slower than I think it would normally
Keto landed me in emerge 3 years ago.
Oh wow!!
What happened? And what was ur diet like?