Darth Bane Vs. Darth Vader - Masters of Djem So
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 25 июл 2024
- [00:00] Opening Statements
[01:55] Analysis
[09:10] Verdict
This is a classical match-up that was first discussed by Antoine Bandele back in April of 2014. The very first Rule of Two Sith Lord and the very last, the parallels between Darths Bane and Vader are many. Both were reigning masters of Form V lightsaber combat, both were Force prodigies who betrayed their masters, and both were ideologues who placed their dedication to order ahead of their own self interest. Obviously, my analysis of both will be drawn exclusively from old school Expanded Universe material, ignoring their appearances in the 2008 Clone Wars animated series and all Disney Canon material. I will be focusing on Bane within the timeframe of Dynasty Of Evil, and Vader within the timeframe of Return Of The Jedi, immediately before their respective deaths.
Book of Sith - The Rule Of Two - Personal Combat - 0:10
The Jedi Path - Part III: Padawan - Form V Lightsaber Combat: Shien/Djem So - 2:04, 6:44
Jedi Vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force - Part Two: The Jedi - The Seven Forms - 3:39
Book of Sith - The Rule Of Two - Selecting An Apprentice - 9:26 
Кино
Vader fading in as Bane's quote says "I will not permit my legacy to become a faded copy of a copy" would've been perfect
Ironically Bane himself would probably hate Sidious because 1. Sidious is VERY self serving and 2. because he overthrew his master no by proving himself stronger in a fair fight but but killing his master when he was drunk/asleep
This makes me wonder if Sidious could actually beat Plagueis in a fair fight. It could make for an interesting versus video.
@@StevenZissimos I believe Luceno stated somewhere that at the time, they were both pretty even but Plagueis would be probably edge out due to having trained Sidious plus having some tricks hidden up his sleeve. But yeah, would definitely make for a great matchup
@@StevenZissimos I believe Luceno stated somewhere that at the time, they were both pretty even but Plagueis would be probably edge out due to having trained Sidious plus having some tricks hidden up his sleeve. But yeah, would definitely make for a great matchup
@@roberthawkins4524 The problem with Plagueis is he's an extremely on screen featless character for all we know he has a hidden trick or two to beat Sidious (the Starwars EU is indeed a very skill based universe after all) I feel confident that the gap in their power isn't substantial enough for it to be a stomp for either character.
@@DTheCritical Oh definitely not, I'd say only ROTJ version of Sidious onwards would probably be capable of stomping him. And again, more down to Plageuis from all accounts not being the most combat focused Sith.
It warms my heart to see more actual lore breakdown.
nice to see someone accept Vader for what he is, he's a monster, but too many people are stuck on 'Chosen One, he wins'. Revenge of the Sith Anakin probably beats Bane, but once he's in the suit, Bane tears him to pieces. The Rule of Two means that they get more powerful, but that is in theory, and also not a straight line. Every time one uses a trick like Plagueis did to kill his master, or Sidious used to kill him, it breaks that line of being more powerful. Bane would have hated what his order became, the last several generations at the very least did not take power from the 'all powerful grip of the master' at all. Vader is a powerhouse, but Bane couldn't be built to bat him any harder if that had been his whole purpose.
I wholeheartedly agree that Rule of Two power scaling is seriously overstated for the exact reasons you listed. It turned into victory to the treacherous instead of survival of the fittest.
"but too many people are stuck on 'Chosen One, he wins'"
This is why match-ups concerning Anakin or Vader I tend to normally avoid; not because of Jensaarai who's as fair as possible when it comes to characters, but how many people like to parade the character that anything suggested otherwise is like heresy in their eyes, and they go off like rabid dogs.
It made the Anakin vs Grievous match-up comment section depressing, to say the least.
@@Caxkj0 Exactly. People easily forget potential vs actual power.
Anakin never reached his full potential and was heavily reliant on his talent to get him through. Vader built his skillset from failures and lessons from defeat.
Exactly my thoughts on the matter. People forget that even with the Mortis Force Gods (given how everybody sees TCW here, im only mentioning it because it was only a fraction of anakin's full potential) anakin never reached it. All of it was crippled and lost once he was cooked alive on mustafar.
Vader is above anakin the you agree vader wins
More powerful in the force than ever before as well a master of the lightsaber. Darth vader prepares for his final battle as the rebel [fleet hammers the fully operational death star] - Darth vader: return of Anakin Skywalker
Many years later, Obi wan and darth vader duel a second time. The sith lord is now more experienced and powerful - Beware of the sith
This duel was very different from their last. Obi wan was older and weaker while vader was even stronger, fueled by hatred and thirst
for revenge. - Jedi battles
More powerful in the force than ever before as well a master of the lightsaber. Darth vader prepares for his final battle as the rebel [fleet hammers the fully operational death star] - Darth vader: return of Anakin Skywalker
Many years later, Obi wan and darth vader duel a second time. The sith lord is now more experienced and powerful - Beware of the sith
This duel was very different from their last. Obi wan was older and weaker while vader was even stronger, fueled by hatred and thirst
for revenge. - Jedi battles
Here’s an interesting matchup
Darth Zannah vs Darth Maul (Legends): one who uses a saberstaff for defense and one who uses a saberstaff for offense
Possibly Zannah if the sorcery suceeds at breaking Maul down. If not the Zabrak wins.
Interesting...though my guess is that this fight would go down just as zannah vs Sarro Xaj ...one hex and maul would go down
Yeah agree with what's been said here, whilst Maul is definitely the more formidable duellist, Zannah's spells I feel are too much for him. Comes down to how long he can resist them. Canon Maul probably does worse given how screwed up his mental state is.
The council forecast addressed this before.
They said that Zannah is far too powerful and it would be a huge mismatch, Zannah is a sorceress and Maul is an assassin.
@@roberthawkins4524 *TCW Maul. TPM Maul is both Legends and Canon, while TCW maul is canon only
Ironically, if Darth Bane killed Vader, Sidious would likely be like "Hey, so a new position just opened up for my new apprentice. Any interest?"
Bane's answer: "Fuck you. I'm the original Rule of Two Sith Lord. You should be begging to be my apprentice."
@@Jensaarai1 That could be an exciting fight. Darth Sidious versus Darth Bane. I honestly don't know who would win that fight. If Darth Bane can survive Darth Sidious's force powers, I think Darth Bane would win. But I am not sure Darth Bane would survive Darth Sidious's force powers.
@@AlwaysGrowing0 Antoine bandele already did that. Sidious wins due to overwhelming force powers as bane wouldn't have the time to use essence transfer and sidious's will is already broken enough to resist bane's essence even remotely taking over his body
@@AlwaysGrowing0 I think that Bane would be completely overwhelmed. Be it in lightsaber combat where he's certainly not the equal of someone like Windu who Sidious matched, or in the force where he'd be less viable against Sidious than Yoda was. There's just too big of a power difference imo. I think that the list of characters who could have legitimately beaten Sidious in a straight fight stops and ends at Luke and maybe Vitiate.
@@AlwaysGrowing0 , yeah no, Sidious is incomparably better than Bane.
At best, Bane provides Sids a challenge, but no real threat.
Jensaarai, idk if you'll see this comment but just wanted to say THANK YOU. I used to watch your videos many years ago and just recently have been searching for your channel again, so happy I found it. You've inspired a lot of my content, thank you for continuing to make videos all these years. Much love
That Battlestar soundtrack in the background hit the nostalgia
Bear Mccreary is a genius
I see the saddos are back in the comments section of yet another great channel, masquerading as that particular RUclipsr to try and get us to click on or get in contact. Luckily we’re too smart for their pathetic attempts. Still, be careful everyone.
I hope they don’t mess up your channel Jensaarai One, I still remember that horrific time you went through when somebody had hijacked it before. The thought of no more videos from one of the greatest Star Wars youtubers was terrifying, I’m not gonna lie. But then you came back bigger and better than ever 🤘🏻
That is the best preview I could see today.
Thanks for the content!
Vader even being able to contend with Bane is a testament to Vaders strength and prowess.
Fantastic video Jen! Looking forward to the next project you make!
I´d like to adress the argument going around in the comments, that the rule of two lords all outclass earlier sith:
As far as I can tell this is based on two things: Darth bane`s plan for the rule of two in his book triology...and darth plagueis's opinion in his novel.
It is not a hard fact that bane successors would grow in combat or force power every generation...it was his vision...and it was based on his experience in the brotherhood of darkness....He witnessed the brotherhood and it´s more egalitarian approach concerning hierarcy and saw how this violated the "will to power" disposition essential to sith philosophy.
His reformed order adresses this as it won`t allow weak individuals to rise to power...So my take is that bane`s rule of two order was more focused on being an antidote against weakness rather than a garantee for growing power.
...my point being that the 10th generation of rule of two lords is not 10 times stronger than the first. This is a formal fallacy!
Furthermore, stronger would be relative...stronger lightsaber duelist? stronger force user in general?...Zannah wasn`t as strong in lightsaber combat as bane...and Vader did not outclass Zannah as a sorcerer...so stating that later rule of two sith surpassed earlier ones in every aspect...is evidently false!
Secondly, Darth Plagueis statements in his novel.
Again, all these statements about how much stronger the sith are now, are his point of view...not hard data.
In Plagueis opinion, the later rule of two lords were so powerful, cause they concentrated the dark side in only two individuals. Though that statement is incorrect!
There were other darkside orders around all the time, the sith did not have a monopoly on the darkside. The nightsisters, the darkside prophets, Abeloth, ...the list goes on...all existed, and therefore make his statement false.
In addition, Bane`s idea was that every new generation of his order would overpower the one that came before.
At least for plagueis and sidious, they didn`t seize the mantel of dark lord by a demonstration of power...but through trickery and deception...bane wouldn`t have liked that!
Also, Plagueis`s statments about power are open to interpretation. Power growing in sith order does not necessary mean force power, or combat power...it also ment political/influence power.
"Where the Sith once wore armor, we now wear cloaks. But the Force works through us all the more powerfully in our invisibility. For the present, the more covert we remain, the more influence we can have" darth plageius novel.
I´d like to close by asking the supporters of the "superior-later-rule-of-two-lords" argument: Do you think darth nihilus, emperor Vitiate, tulak hord, Exar Kun were all weaklings compared to the later rule of two sith?...cause your deduction suggests so.
Well said like Seth the Programmer seems to imply Bane is stronger than Revan and Vitiate which are both pretty flawed ideas to say the least. Don't get me wrong Bane is an exceptionally stronger force user but hes no Yoda or Mace Windu
@@DTheCritical I'd argue that Bane could put up a fight against Windu. I'd go so far as to say that Bane actually has a decent chance of winning.
@@StevenZissimos Windu`s fighting style was deadly against aggressive darksiders, cause of his vaapad. He´d take anything Bane would hurl at him and throw it back with interest. I think Windu`s skillset would be perfect to counter Bane`s....The only darksider I can think of who would have a high winning chance against Windu would be Dooku. The counts relaxed Makashi would leave Windu`s Vaapad without anything to feed on.
@@Enrico_Palazzo_opera_singer you bring a valid point regarding Vapaad. However, Bane is also a very intelligent fighter. He would engage the fight cautiously to get a sense of Windu's fighting style. Plus, he's been known to use the environment to his advantage when fighting against superior duellists like he did against Kas'im (who was a superior duellist to Bane at the time). Vapaad would certainly give Windu an edge, but I don't believe it would be the ultimate trump card against an opponent as calculating as Bane.
@@StevenZissimos He is very intelligent yes but that's usually when he has time to plan if he gets dropped into a fight cold then he is in real trouble as he always has problems when confronted out of no where.
This video has now got me thinking
Obi Wan vs Kasiim?
Obi Wan without any effort. Kas'im lost to a Bane who was very early in his career as a sith
These are always so good. Just want to let you know you’re appreciated
I'd respectfully, still like to see pre suit Vader, vs. Darth Bane. I'm actually a huge Anakin/pre suit Vader fan, but I actually expect Bane to win. I'd love to see which one of my opinions was correct.
Anakin/PSV violates
So good to see you back bro, I have missed your channel
Your videos are always worth the wait!
2:49, calling Bane, as of DoE, an over-the-hill bodybuilder is a bit reductive. He’s barely over-the-hill, he’s self-described in DoE as just feeling the initial vestiges of his age. At most he’s about a year or so past his physical prime.
In regard to referring to him as a bodybuilder, while it may not be common knowledge, most bodybuilders are actually only physically impressive in look alone; they’re actually horribly out of shape. Bane on the other hand, is incredibly physically capable, in strength, durability, stamina, and agility (the last of which Vader doesn’t really have).
4:22-4:45, substantiation for Vader being skilled in Ataru? Pretty sure we know Anakin was, but he had to retool his fighting style after his injuries on Mustafar, and we know he did that for his primary Djem So, and learned and arguably mastered both Soresu and Makashi, but I don’t recall any source suggesting he was particularly skilled in Ataru. Likewise, I have seen the same lack of substantiation regarding Vader with Juyo.
Bane however, was also a Djem So master, but arguably a Soresu master as well. He also utilized Makashi against Zannah in their final duel, and it’s not like Bane to utilize something he wasn’t skilled with (except for essence-transfer, but that was because he was desperate), so it’s plenty likely he was at least quite skilled in it, possibly even a master of it.
And as you mentioned, Bane was also arguably a Juyo master as well.
… In other words, from the info we have, nothing really points to either Bane or Vader being more skilled in lightsaber combat than the other.
Completely agree with your conclusion and end-assessment. I favor Bane winning, but it for sure would be a fantastically close fight; I’m always taken aback when I see people say that either Bane or Vader would win easily, ya know?
Finally! Always so exited for your videos man!
I still love your work bro , best of the bunch , no question .
I'm a teacher. In my last period. I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS!!!! Students watching a movie so I'm gonna LIKE, SAVE, AND WATCH AS SOON AS I GET HOME!!!
This build up has been fun. The previews and a premiere are great way of creating hype.
Nice referring to Antoine's Vader vs Bane Matchup (and damn that was 2014? Time flies).
I can go either way but Im leaning towards Bane. While I view Vader as being the superior swordsman and his cybernetics giving him the physical advantages in the areas that matter, Bane is strong+skilled enough to hold his ground and potentially overpower Vader similar to Episode 6 Luke. With the Force, I view Vader as more powerful (though not by much) and more creative with TK, but Bane is more educated + force lightning.
While we wait for the video to be posted, im going to pitch some matchups that have been in the back of my head. Most of them are pretty crap.
Kar Vastor vs Lord Nyax: 2 men transformed into juggernauts by nature and machine
Cade Skywalker vs Darth Cadeus: Skywalker family Anti Hero vs Anti Villain
Shado Vao vs Exar Kun: Blue Saberstaff tricksters
Brakiss vs Disney Canon Grand Inquisitor (joke matchup): Inquisitor Apprentice vs Grand Inquisitor. This is a mismatch
Thon vs Dessan: Alien Dinonsaurs
Oppo Rancisis vs Mace Windu (joke matchup): ruclips.net/video/ZAAAppoO9X0/видео.html
Thank you for the heart Jensaarai! Always, appreciate it.
I had to hold off from responding because you sussed it out.
As for the matches:
- I need to read up on Lord Nyax. I've actually been toying with putting Vastor against Pong Krell.
- Cade Vs Caedus is interesting, but I want to put Cade against Exar Kun 1st. The Jedi Meth-head & The Sith Pimp.
- Vao is a good match for Kun as a swordsman, but not a Force wielder. Asajj Ventress is a better opponent.
- I need to read up on Brakiss, but the Grand Inquisitor is the only competent Disney Canon Inquisitor.
- Thon clearly has the advantage as a Force wielder, but he has no dueling feats.
- Rancisis Vs Windu, interesting...
@@Jensaarai1 It's actually kinda weird because Thon is apparently a Jedi Weapons Master
@@Jensaarai1 Got done with work and got to watch this video. Looks like we had similar trains of thoughts.
Thank you for posting your thoughts on the matchups I had thought of (even the 2 jokes).
- Originally someone thought of Opress vs Vastor and then after thinking about it, I thought Vastor would savagely Maul Opress and Vastor would be a better matchup. Vastor vs Pong Krell would be an interesting matchup.
- Jedi Meth Head vs Sith Pimp is an amazing title. Though Cade is also a pimp. So this would be Jedi vs Sith Pimps fighting over who has better game. And as Darth Talon can attest to, Cade's pimp hand is strong.
- Yeah the conclusion is pretty obvious. There is a chance Kun's ego demands that he fights Vao with pure swordsmanship, but the minute Vao uses his force abilities, Kun responds in kind and one shots Vao. Ventress vs Vao sounds pretty cool.
- Dont remember a ton about Brakiss outside of that time he caused solar flare. I just thought it would be funny for the lowest title EU Inquisitor to fight the highest title Disney Canon Inquisitor and win (assuming Brakiss would win).
- Yeah shame Thon lacks dueling feats. Even though his sourcebook entry credits him with the kitchen sink in terms of force abilities, and his skill with blaster pistols.
- lol it is a pretty interesting matchup.
@@Emperordmb So not only is Thon a Jedi Weapons Master, but apparently one of his sourcebook entries credits him skill with lightsaber combat, dual weapon fighting, unarmed combat, and Blaster Pistols. The lightsaber is one thing, but how the hell does a quadraped dinosaur wield a blasted pistol???
Thon is a character with a lot of mystery behind him, but that is probably the biggest question I have.
Thank you jen for your time and commitment.
I love your content. Great with the job.
The Chosen One vs. The Sith'ari
The most surprising thing about this video to me was the length! I'm so used to 30+ minute videos from you that this very brief yet succinct video was a welcome surprise. So while I do miss a little bit of the extra detail you would normally go into, I appreciate how "to the point" this video was as these are two characters that most hardcore Star Wars fans know quite well already.
If we're going by The Expanded Universe (Legends), technically the last Rule of Two Sith were Darth Caedus and Tahiri Veila. Before that it was the Dark Lady Lumiya and Jacen Solo.
Agreed 100% awesome video my man!
Love the analysis. And very much agree with you.
Great job.
Now I'm super curious how a rematch fight between Vader and Malgus would go with your new standards. A nice new format by the way.
The fight would be like two chess players more than an Olympic event, trying to out-mental one another with force moves to crash defensive walls. With this I think Vader would outstrip. The culmination of bane’s own rule of two spat right back out at him from the future.
this wouldn't be much of a fight. bane i think would systematically destroy vader. vader's suit was very susceptible to force lightning and bane would just use that on vader. bane had knowledge of the dark side vader didn't because sidious withheld knowlege from vader which by the rule of two sidious should have been training vader to challenge him for the mantle of dark lord. bane's military training and discipline would give him a huge advantage over vader as vader's anger could be used against him. if this was anankin skywalker vader with no burns or limbs cut off i think it would be an interesting fight but mechanical suit vader i don't think would last very long vs bane as bane would exploit the suit's weakness to force lighting and use vader's overagrresiveness and anger against him.
@@eriknewton4656 have you seen the comics? vader is the definition of power even with his suit's flaws. plus vader redesigned his suit twice to resist lightning and was shown coping fine in the last vader comic, deflecting and absorbing lightning from sidious.
and really, armour weakening someone- i don't think you want to open that can of worms with the kind of parasitic obelisk armour adorning bane, zapping his lifeforce. vader sought out dark side knowledge that even sidious didn't know about and twice managed to enter spiritual realms beyond to bring back padme. these are feats sidious couldn't hope to achieve even with his fancy sith sorcery techniques.
bane having the sith war military training, matches vader's clone wars military training, its amazing how many people forget that vader as anakin raked up so much experience in the clone war as a leading general taking like a duck to water.. and so both are equally prodigious, even ruthless tacticians. but bane doesn't know anything about vader or his suit, so that's a moot point, that he would use that to his advantage. they're both going in cold.
you're trying to pass vader off as a mindless rage machine at the end there, and that's not the case. he is the deadly combination of cool and calm, calculating, and superhuman strong and far more advanced in force power. he wielded his power and strength tactically and with speartip precision. i don't think bane is even as level headed with his powers because his past trauma left him with a shaky unsteady hand and wild mood swings when under certain pressure.
Love you’re content bro!
Finally some actual star wars discussion, thank you!
Darth Vader vs. Darth Bane.
Good vid, yet one of the few conclusions on Jensaarai One's channel I heavily disagree with. Not only from Vader's own shortcomings but due to how it doesn't address how far Vader would go to win. Between Vader and Bane, one is a dedicated combat-focused character while the other is more a philosopher and shadow-operator. Vader's own skills are anachronistic from the Jedi of Bane's time or any Sith whom Bane himself encountered.
From the New Sith Wars, the majority of any Force wielders were primarily swordsmen with more mystical Jedi or Sith ocupying arm-chair general positions, especially with Battle Meditation. 99% of them all were offence-oriented specialists, while the best the best devised layered martial skills among the higher echelons. The singular defense heavyweight identified within that period is Darth Zannah. Darth Vader can blitz different foes and is extremely calculating. He does exercise multiple skills and powers, and against serious threats deliberately wants to control a battle or a duel, sharing parallels with Obi-Wan Kenobi more than Darth Sidious.
Darth Bane would ridicule Vader for fighting like a Jedi, as he lacks the mystical power of Zannah to pair with a defensive fighting style or the iconic powers of a Sith Lord. Ironically, Bane's skill or methods for single combat barely evolved very far from Kas'im's teachings, making him part of the "old Sith" mould the Rule of Two would depart from and Yoda spent decades training the Jedi to fight against. Time as a Jedi would lend Vader a slight advantage since Bane's combat MO has barely any parallels with Sidious, Plageuis or Tyrannus; while Vader did learn how Bane will fight in classroom sessions as a Jedi.
Bane will ridicule Vader to have no source of hatred strong enough to overcome Bane. Something Vader would answer with silence, or declare he carried it within himself, and unknowingly lull Bane into a fight with the Sithari completely confident in his own victory.
A victory for Vader would mirror 3 different scenarios: 1) his duel with the Darth Maul doppelgänger, 2) Galen Marek vs. Vader (Vader taking Marek’s roll while Bane occupies Vader’s) or 3) loose parallels with Darth Caedus vs. Kyle Katarn (Vader taking his Grandson’s roll and Bane as a stand-in for Kyle Katarn), with Bane pressing forward and Vader resorting to measures his foe would never consider, or be blind to.
While Bane’s victory would parallel Zannah’s experience with Sarro Xaj on Tython without anything to distract Xaj (Vader as a stand-in for Zannah and Bane taking Sarro Xaj), or match GM Luke Skywalker vs. Darth Caedus. 1) Bane pressing in but encountering interference (deliberately from Vader, not another fighter), yet once the interference is checked and they confront each other head-to-head, Vader could be trapped and overwhelmed. Or 2) both figures colliding and confident in their own capacities, one with purpose and the other to survive, only for the differences to be on full display despite how close they are. One would pressure, taunt or wound the other, and that combatant responds by exercising their full magnitude, Bane overwhelming Vader as GM Luke did against Darth Caedus.
Between all 5 scenarios, the following reasons outline why I view the 3 in Vader's favour as more plausible:
Darth Vader is first and foremost a combat-focused Sith Lord, admittedly with the toolset and limitations of the Jedi Guardian. While Darth Bane is a grand-scale Sith Lord who has to be applauded for maintaining a strong martial focus when, following the Thought Bomb, he would never encounter any Sith or Jedi at all and risk exposure. Bane lived in the immediate aftermath of centuries of intermittent war between Sith and Jedi, with the latter giving a lot of attention to even a hint or trickle of the Dark side anywhere after the battle of Rusaan; and for all his efforts Bane was eventually found by vigilant Jedi, Othone and Farfalla. Darth Bane prioritizes deception and remaining hidden within the galaxy watched closely by the Jedi, yet in pure martial capacities is an undeniably high-tier swordsman. Whereas Darth Vader was a proactive and highly visible figure who invested a large amount of his own efforts into combat powers, maximizing his crippled potential. Vader himself has been defeated, in situations where his own oversights or wider agenda gave those foes openings to use, and it's extremely telling that figures including Dark Jedi Jerec did not make overt moves to advance themselves until after Vader was dead.
Bane was a True Sith Lord, who made several oversights in combat which left him captured, crippled or dead. While Darth Vader fights like a Jedi, with cunning and pragmatism to uses any and every means to win. Also, Vader did succeed in killing his own master at the cost of his own life aboard the 2nd Death Star. Had Vader suddenly decided to destroy all Sith the same way Darth Wredd decided to a century later, then he could have destroyed Darth Sidious at any time yet would not be alive to enjoy the victory. Darth Bane, in a surprising parallel to figures like Kyle Katarn, can develop mild tunnel vision at the expense of wider awareness. While Darth Vader is a pragmatist who can compete with Darth Bane and would carry no alternative agenda into a duel with another Sith, unlike against Galen Marek, the Starkiller clone or his own son.
Bane can overwhelm Vader, yet Bane's track record contradicts a case for him leveraging his greatest advantages to the extent he would need against Vader. While Vader would only hold out in a duel against Bane, not out-fence him, staying on the defence for the majority of their clash. Should Vader wound or exercise martial or psychological pressure against Bane, the Sithari would escalate to his full might in the Force, overwhelming Vader (mirroring GM Luke vs. Darth Caedus). Yet opposed to that, while analyzing him, Bane would taunt or ridicule Vader while confident his own full might would not even be worth exercising against a “Sith pretender.” Neither would trap the other with Dun Moch, and in either the mid or the long run, Vader would lure Bane in and surprise him, either with conventional powers in an asymmetrical way (Caedus’ win or Katarn), by applying layered assaults with martial and mystical powers (Galen vs. Vader; the least plausible), or taking a crippling wound to deliver a fatal one (how he defeated the Maul doppelgänger).
Out of all these options, Vader would give up an arm to impale Bane or utilize both lightsaber and martial skills to attack Bane on multiple levels, creating openings. With individual fighters of this calibre, they only need one slip-up to kill the other. For all his power and skills Bane does not bring anything new to the table which Vader has not handled before, nor does Bane favour Force-lighting to the same degree as Sidious or Darth Thanaton. Bane's martial advantage would lead him to have a comfortable time in the fight, and open to becoming surprised by Vader, or the Fallen Chosen One would decide killing Bane is worth a crippling injury to himself; killing Bane.
I feel like Vader's weakness to lightning is a bit besides the point. Bane's lighting is powerful enough to outright kill an opponent on contact, so even if Vader wasn't part machine it would still be fatal or at least severely weaken him. What I don't get is why you assume Vader can't just defend himself from the lighting with his lightsaber. You use TFU2 as a visual reference but in the novelization of that story it was Vader's chest plate being damaged that helped Starkiller defeat him.
I kind of agree. I know of very few examples of lightning going around a lightsaber. Even Palpatines lightning was stoped by mace Windu lightsaber and only got through yodas by knocking it out of his hand. I also think his weakness to a strong form is overstated because all opponents that have breached Vaders defenses have known his fighting style.
Bane is a TPM Maul victim, tho so is Vader
@@ChristopherL-nw8wr Agreed. Vader's weakness to lightning is overstated and blown out of proportion. It's an obvious weakness, but not one that significant
You should do Bane & Zannah vs TPM-era Sidious and Maul.
Okay... This video was shorter than I thought it would be. Not bad. You made a good analysis to each Djem So combatant.
However, there are some things that you might have neglected to include:
1. Vader, like Bane, employed Juyo, as observed by Ferus Olin in _The Last of the Jedi: Return of the Dark Side._ It makes sense that he would teach Galen Mark the form after trying it out for himself.
2. Since Anakin Skywalker studied Niman, as he noted in _The Jedi Path,_ Vader would undoubtedly have used Form VI whenever the opportunity arrived. For example, he used the "Draw Closer" maneuver on Jucasta Nu and Sha Koon.
3. Vader is no stranger to curved-hilt lightsabers, having fought Darth Tyranus and Asajj Ventress over the course of the Clone Wars as Anakin. He'd know what to expect from Bane's personal weapon.
4. In issue 1 of _Crimson Empire,_ in a flashback, we see Vader use a double vibroblade. Read it, and you'll also find an extraordinary use of acrobatics, despite the weight of his armor.
5. Bane, at one time, employed mounted lightsaber combat via drexl in _Rule of Two._ Vader hadn't used once used a lightsaber while mounted since the Clone Wars.
Yeah it is a bit on the short side, I kind of felt like he skimmed a bit too much when analyzing these two-gave a short but concise description of their lightsaber skills, said Bane wins because of force lightning, and then called it a day. I kind of wished he talked a bit more about their Force abilities considering the sheer magnitude of abilities and raw strength both of them had-with Vader’s direct psychic attacks being an interesting parallel to Zannah’s usage of Sith Spells of Fear and Madness, Vader’s raw power and better defenses against Bane’s slightly more varied combative force abilities.
Had a feeling it would be on the short side of things given the timestamps in the video description.
1 +2. Agree with both of these points. Vader is noted to have used elements of all 7 forms into his personal form.
I feel some further discussion and comparison on their force abilities would have been nice. Like comparing their aptitudes, knowledge base, and limitations. Like Bane and Vader both have knowledge of Sith sorcery, but their ability is limited. Bane is limited to rituals and Vader needed the Murr Talisman (which probably did most of the work for him but still worth mentioning). And maybe Bane's greater education of Sith Lore.
@@kylemc2290, Vader’s TP doesn’t compare to Zannah’s spells of madness.
And I definitely wouldn’t say Vader’s defenses are necessarily better than Bane’s. 🤷♂️
I’m not saying they are-but it’d be an interesting talking point to make in the video for a section that was lacking in detail.
@@kylemc2290, very much agree. While the outcome is divisive, with about half the audience agreeing, and the other half thinking Vader should have won, I think just about everyone agrees this match-up deserved more than not even 15 minutes worth of coverage.
Hello Great video as always. I was wondering if you would ever do a fast, medium, strong and three rings of defense lightsaber styles video. Similar to the ones u did for the 7 main forms. I would love to see that. Keep up the great work
Great video!
After recently reading the bane trilogy with great enjoyment, I am more than excited to see this match up revised from Connor the Scholar :)))
Can You do a what if? What if Darth Bane founded the rule of one instead of the rule of two how do you think that’d change things?
So, to make a long story short--Vader pretty much has the edge over Bane as far as Telekinesis, Technical Dueling Skill and Application, General Purpose Force Abilities and Tactics goes--but Bane has lightning so that puts him over Vader in the end. Kind of anti-climactic when it all comes down to that. However, seeing as how Bane is essentially one of the few Sith Lords close enough in Vader's fields of expertise to meet him head on in all aspects, it makes sense given Bane's own top tier (or near top tier if nothing else) regard as a user of Force Lightning. (Even though I still see him as being more of a challenge for Bane than Zannah was during Dynasty of Evil given how Bane practically dominated that entire confrontation and only resorted to Essence Transfer after she drew on an external amplifier and lopped off his arm with a Dark Side Tendril)
On a side note--during Sam Witwer's Let's Play of The Force Unleashed, he mentioned that the plan of the cancelled Force Unleashed 3 would have featured Starkiller going head to head with Vader once again using the tactics he typically used to edge out victories against him--only this time he stated that Vader would effortlessly counter each and every one of them and absolutely throttle Starkiller shortly afterwards, stating that he was essentially "doing what he did with Luke in Empire Strikes Back with him for the entirety of the two prior fights with him". Admittedly the context is a bit vague due to Sam still being tight-lipped regarding the story details in case the game ever resumed development, but if this confrontation were ever to be taken into consideration and Force Unleashed 3 actually saw the light of day---how would this play into your overall analysis of Vader, and would he have more of a chance against Bane given that it is in direct contrast to your opinion that he's unable to compensate against Djem So stylists with affinities for Force Lightning?
Lightning doesn't mean much when you're holding a lightsaber so it's really Vader that has the edge on Bane.
Given the game never came out, it shouldn’t be much more than mere food for thought.
@@Atheismo9760 , except Bane has applied force lightning in less than straightforward and typical ways. He’s used it defensively in short bursts to keep his opponent back and on their toes when he was weaponless, and pre-prime, he’s called down lightning from above to kill opponents.
Plus, his lightning is>Galen Marek/Starkiller’s.
True, I’m not saying it’s this definitive argument ender-but given how the Force Unleashed series was nipped in the bud before it reached a definitive conclusion, we still only have two-thirds of a story to go off of rather than the whole. Interesting food for thought that would present a new layer to Vader’s character: The Sith Apprentice rearing for and preparing for an inevitable conflict with his master and fellow Sith of that ilk, only to be pulled back to the light by his own son at the critical moment.
@@kylemc2290 dude, it always hurts my soul to think about how we never got a TFU III or KOTOR III.
Oh I'm gonna look forward to this.
Can’t wait to see this.
Here is my prediction for the fight:
Round 1: Physical stats.
Winner: Darth Vader. His suit gives him several advantages Bane doesn't possess with his squishy meatbag body. Though I will say that Bane's own physical stats are good enough to allow him to keep up with Vader and even contend with him. If Bane had his Orbalisk armor, it would be a different story.
Round 2: Lightsaber style.
Winner: This one is close, but I will have to give it to Vader. His fighting style is more complex and multi-layered than Bane's, and he has significantly more dueling experience than him.
Round 3: Force abilities.
Winner: I honestly don't know who might get the edge here, so I'm afraid I'll have to call it a *draw.* Both are powerful Force savants in their own right, but are primarily lightsaber duelists; Bane's Essence Transfer might give him an edge, but Vader's own willpower would be too strong for that trick to work. Conversely, Vader does not possess any extraordinary Force techniques that will give him a definitive edge.
Conclusion: a confrontation between Darths Vader and Bane will almost certainly start off as a lightsaber duel. After a few minutes, Bane realizes Vader has the edge and resorts to his Force abilities; this will give him the advantage for a time, but Vader will fight back even harder and eventually claim victory. I declare Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith, the victor.
I think it holds a lot of similarities to Malgus vs Vader. Bane us no where near as experienced, and Vaders saber style is more fleshed out, but with Bane's insanely powerful lightning and demonstrated willingness to break off saber combat and use the force, I think Bane has the skill as a duelist to hold Vader back plus the knowledge, skill, and power in the force to either stumble or outright kill Vader. Really close though
Physical: I don’t exactly disagree, but I just want to throw it out there that, while Vader’s suit provides him more physical protection than Bane has in DoE, it also limits his maneuverability, and as we know from Bane’s fight against Zannah in the Stone Prison, Bane is surprisingly nimble and agile. Plus, Vader’s suit is also a major weakness against more powerful force lightning, which Bane definitely has.
Lightsabers: While I think it’s said somewhere that Vader ended up incorporating all 7 forms into his style, he was only ever a master of Djem So, and mainly alternatively used Soresu and Makashi in addition to his primary Djem So.
On the other hand, Bane, while also a Djem So master, was also a master of Soresu and Juyo, and at least also skilled in Makashi, given he utilized it against Zannah in their final duel, and he wouldn’t have used something he wasn’t skilled in (except for essence-transfer, but that was out of desperation).
Bane also was trained in and familiar with all 7 forms, the only form he wasn’t trained in/against was Jar’Kai (but he clearly overcame that setback in his early career given his later fight against Raskta Lsu).
Force: Bane and Vader are about equal in terms of demonstrated power, but it’s clear Bane simply has more tools in his kit, mainly, of course, force lightning.
IMO, this is the clearest round to call, and in favor of Bane.
As I mentioned earlier, Bane would only attempt essence-transfer as a kind of last-ditch effort, and yeah, it arguably wouldn’t work.
Conclusion: I personally think this is one of the better, closer match-ups out there, ya know? Given that, I think it’s more likely than not that either of them could win… just depends on how the fight unfolds.
Gun-to-my-head, if I HAD to lean one way or the other, I guess I’d pick Bane, if only slightly. This is because he and Vader are essential equals in just about every way, with the main difference being Bane’s superior arsenal of Force powers at his disposal.
But yeah, for all intents and purposes, my official stance is that it could go either way. I’m pleased to see in the comments that most people also think this is a close match; I saw this match-up not too long ago in a FB group, and I was disappointed by how many people were saying Bane easily wins, or Vader easily wins. 🙄
It is a CLOSE match.
@@TinyTorah Thanks for your insights. I did a similar analysis for Darth Malak vs Count Dooku on one of Evannova95's posts, but it was more detailed. Here, I didn't really feel like putting in the same amount of effort into analyzing this match up. Here are my thoughts on your statements.
*Physical:*
1. *Vader’s suit provides him more physical protection than Bane has in DoE, it also limits his maneuverability, and as we know from Bane’s fight against Zannah in the Stone Prison, Bane is surprisingly nimble and agile.*
I forgot about Bane's Stone Prison fight with Zannah. Just realized he's a lot faster and more agile than I gave him credit for, which is impressive since you'd expect Zannah to be the faster one. Bane once completed a lightsaber exercise in the pouring rain by moving so quickly not a single drop touched him; another superb display of his speed and agility. A good example of his endurance is when he staved off being drugged almost constantly by Serra and was able to kill several well-rested mercenaries with his bare hands. Vader's suit makes a strong defense against drugs but the fact that Bane accomplished this feat without cybernetics is impressive.
2. *Plus, Vader’s suit is also a major weakness against more powerful force lightning, which Bane definitely has.*
Vader can just simply block it with his lightsaber or, if worse comes to worse, tank it the same way he did with Starkiller's lightning in TFU 2. But I can see Bane frying Vader to pieces with lightning if he can somehow catch his opponent by surprise with it.
*Lightsaber:*
1. *On the other hand, Bane, while also a Djem So master, was also a master of Soresu and Juyo, and at least also skilled in Makashi, given he utilized it against Zannah in their final duel, and he wouldn’t have used something he wasn’t skilled in*
I didn't realize Bane was using Makashi until I reread Dynasty of Evil. The book states he fought using a pattern of feints and quick thrusts while probing and prodding Zannah's defenses for a weakness. I doubt Bane's Makashi is as good as Dooku's, but it is still a viable fallback option if his usual tactics fail.
2. *(except for essence-transfer, but that was out of desperation)*
Yeah, losing your arm *and* your lightsaber will do that to you.
3. *Bane also was trained in and familiar with all 7 forms, the only form he wasn’t trained in/against was Jar’Kai (but he clearly overcame that setback in his early career given his later fight against Raskta Lsu).*
I was under the impression Bane simply powered through Raskta Lsu's offensive by letting most of the hits land on his Orbalisk armor. Plus, I think Johun Othone noted that Raskta scored numerous would-be fatal hits on Bane and they didn't affect him because of the Orbalisks. I think DoE Bane *could* beat Raskta, but since she is a Jedi Weapons Master he would probably have to rely on the Force more than his lightsaber.
*Force:*
*Bane and Vader are about equal in terms of demonstrated power, but it’s clear Bane simply has more tools in his kit, mainly, of course, force lightning.*
In terms of telekinesis and perhaps telepathy, I can see them being equals. Esoteric techniques wise, Vader has nothing going for him here except in the rare instances he was in the proximity of a powerful Force artefact Eg. Muur Talisman, Kaiburr crystal. Bane has more knowledge in esoteric techniques but the only technique that would really be effective is the Essence Transfer, and the effectiveness of even that is dubious at best because Vader's own willpower is equal to Bane's, if not greater. But I do agree with you about the Essence Transfer being a last resort move.
*Conclusion:*
*he and Vader are essential equals in just about every way, with the main difference being Bane’s superior arsenal of Force powers at his disposal.*
Having a fully-working meatbag body will work wonders for your Force abilities. Bane himself said in the Book of Sith that having cybernetics will weaken your ability to use the Force; this is not a personal failing, but a natural law of the Living Force.
Closing thoughts: anyway, I'm glad to hear your thoughts on this match up. Thanks for your patience in reading my own thoughts and getting all the way to the end. It is always nice to have a civil discussion and not get into shouting matches over who would win like "No, Grievous would beat Anakin!" Or "No, Anakin would beat Grievous!"
But regardless of the outcome, I think we can all agree it's going to be one epic battle.
PS: when is Evannova95's Count Dooku vs Darth Malak video coming out? It feels like I've been waiting for that video for more than a year already.
Vader has better force feats
@@muhdaqeel7330
Physical
1. Also while drugged by senflax, Bane ripped a durasteel door off its hinges with his bare hands. 👍
2. Oh yeah no, I agree Vader can obviously block most of Bane’s lightning attacks with his lightsaber, but Bane’s been known to use force lightning strategically, using short small-effort bursts to keep an opponent on their toes and he also called lightning down from above before, which obviously would prove more difficult to defend against. And yeah, Vader should indeed be able to tank Bane’s lesser lightning, but probably not his stronger lightning.
Lightsaber
1. Oh, I would bet actual money and a lot of it at that, that Bane’s Makashi was so not as good as Dooku’s. 😅Bane is arguably a master of Makashi; Dooku is arguably THE master of Makashi.
3. It’s mostly true that Bane’s orbalisks are what helped him the most in that fight, but there are isolated instances within the fight where Bane and Raskta exchanged lightsaber moves, and in one of them, Bane even outmaneuvers her. Also, not that it’s relevant to DoE Bane, but in his orbalisks in RoT, Bane purposefully eschewed essentially any defensive bladework for a dedicated offense because not only did his orbalisks provide a better defense than his lightsaber could muster, but he could also this way be on the offensive while simultaneously effectively defending as well. In other words, many of the hits Bane received in that fight and in others while encrusted in his orbalisks were because Bane let them happen.
Force
Yeah, for me, I’m not really even factoring in essence-transfer. It’s Force lightning that’s the kicker here.
Conclusion
I don’t remember Bane saying that in Book of Sith… but it’s been easily a few years since I actually read through it more than just to find a specific excerpt or something. 😅
I completely agree. And it takes two to tango, and especially online, tone-matching is definitely a thing, so thank YOU for being cordial here; I know more often than I’d like, I tend to slip into giving attitude and stuff like that, so thanks for your part in keeping things civil, which no doubt allowed for me to do the same.
And yeah, this is one of my go-to match-ups that pops into my head for practically dead-even versus match-ups. 👌
Honestly didn’t know EvanNova was making a Dooku vs Malak video. Malak’s kind of a wonky character to place for me, but I can see arguments for Dooku and Malak being comparable, ya know?
I agree with the verdict, but I feel this Matchup deserves a more thorough analysis. @RobGeorge ur one of the members of this community I respect the most, what do you think?
Thank you for your respect Joshua, I do appreciate it.
I did call that Jensarrai1 would side with Bane but I still go back and forth on this matchup.
I agree this matchup would have appreciated a more thorough analysis because it lacks an obvious conclusion.
Especially with force abilities because comparing their power levels, skillsets, knowledge base, and limitations would be good discussion and better explanation to why one favors Bane or Vader.
@@robertgeorge4602 Interesting. RO2 scaling would dictate that Vader swipes, though respective feats beg to differ
@@mylesblake2026 sorry for late reply. I do think Vader force power is > than Bane but not to the degree that Vader swipes. Ive always thought RO2 scaling was extremely questionable.
I really enjoyed this one! Great content as always. Would you consider using Kas'im in a future versus video? Perhaps against the likes of Darth Maul or Darth Malgus.
I'm planning on pitting Kas'im against Kao Cen Darach.
Battlemaster Vs. Blademaster
I got two very interesting matchups that i think could theoretically be made into videos:
-Fire Lord Ozai (Book 3 finale??) vs Lord Voldemort
-Kyle Katarn vs DOE Darth Bane
Please always make videos I need you
Holy SHIT! After being away for SO LONG The Nerd Rage Ranter is coming with DAT FIRE 🔥. Just woke up, saw this, and was like 😱!!!
I’d love to see you compare Darth Zannah’s Soresu vs Obi Wan Kenobi’s Soresu
my 2 cents- speaking of form 5 shien much more refined, experience, obi ani were fighting everyday in the clone wars just about. Yes as form 5 shien in group settings deflecting blaster bolts at the origin and stay in sync at the very least with shien obi sweeps her in that catogory.
What if vader oiled his forklift arms before the fight? to make himself faster.
One drop of anchovie oil should do it ;)
Now i’m just imagining vader with power loader arms from aliens.
@@GreaterGrievobeast55 "GET AWAY FROM MY SON, YOU SCROTUM-FACED BITCH!!!"
I died at your comment 😂
@@Jensaarai1 Vader just adds a can of WD40 to his lightsaber belt lol
I actually disagree Bane’s lighting while very powerful Vader would just block plus while Bane is good a dueling Vader has more experience and skill, again the only thing Bane has on Vader is the lighting everything else Vader has the slight edge. Imo Vader gets the slight victory because Bane generally only uses the force as a last ditch effort! Also as a final point you said how both combatants use the force last but that’s only true for Bane, Vader is more likely to use his force abilities in more when the opening arises!
Could you do mace windu vs satele shan
This basically boils down to either Vader completely outclassing Bane due to all the quotes about the massive growth of the Rule of Two sith and the quotes hyping up Sheev's apprentices or Bane winning due to being a more flexible, well-rounded version of Vader by feats and overall portrayal. I'm in the second camp.
Vader had one of Lord Kaan's amulets built into his suit as an amp, while PoD Bane was drastically stronger than them. He was listed as one of Sidious greatest predecessors in Book of Sith, in Darth Plagueis there is talk about Bane's power getting passed down the line of RoT sith, not being some spark that created a exponentially greater force. Dooku was impressed by the knowledge in Darth Andeddu's holocron, while Bane thought it was mostly basic. Even Krayt asked Bane's holocron for help and was denied, seemingly incapable of just taking it.
Both Bane's power and knowledge are near the top of sith.
He was the weakest of the rot while Rotj vader was a rival of rotj sidious and he surpassed rots sidious who was the strongest of rot sith. Vader is also a better duelist and banes lighting while do Nothing to vader at all, vader has the best lightning tanking feat in the expandef universe
Not to mention that many times ancient sith such as Exar Kun are presented as more impressive than Vader in Luke's viewpoint, which clashes with the supposed scaling putting the ancient Sith so below the modern Sith.
@@papawedge7396 the whole modern sith > ancient sith shaboo only applies to the RO2. Anything before that doesn't rlly count, and has been debunked
can`t resist pitching in a possible matchup..."Darth Revan vs Exar Kun"....how does that sound?
A fully powered exar kun would be universal+ he died very young and never archive his true potential the source say he was going to become all powerful if it wasn't for the jedi interruption he also got a power boost from marka ragnos that's bestowed by all sith lords that get baptized, kun also devastated the surface of musterfar and the author tom veich confirmed that exar kun is similar to emperor papaltine reborn not as powerful but very close both exar kun and papaltine reborn are described by luke Skywalker in his prime as the biggest focal point AKA force nexus of the dark side he ever seem, the source escalate that if the jedi didn't stop exar kun in time he would have become too powerful, the source say the the ritual exar kun performed would had made him all powerful if it weren't for the jedi interruption. exar kun mastered all sith magic archemy and many rituals, he mastered all 7 lightsaber form and mastered skills from ancient times create by tulak hord and the jedi exile, exar kun possessed the dark holocrom which had the acknowledged of over 10,000 years of sith magic archemy rituals lightsaber skills, the source stated that exar kun was the galaxy greatest threat 4000 years before the birth of luke Skywalker, Leia also say exar kun weakened spirit was more powerful than a prime luke Skywalker. Tom veich confirmed that exar kun is similar to emperor papaltine reborn in raw force power potential acknowledge and skills in the force. Tom veich confirmed on his Twitter that exar kun is similar to emperor papaltine reborn in raw force power potential acknowledge and skills
dude...I mean, I am a bit of an Exar Kun fanboy myself....but don`t you think you taking a tad too far😗.
+ he wasn`t really a master of all lightsaber forms...I don`t think that Juyo was even established when he was around. He used form 6, Niman, and the the more sophisticated battlemaster version of it...which made him adept in forms I - V + JarKai...but not a true master of all forms.
In addition, Ulic Qel-Droma fought him to a stalemate...
...in addition... the sith, by which I mean the exiled jedi landing on Korriban, were founded 6900 years bby!...roughly 3000 years before kun was born...the sith "species" did not know lightsabers before that...so this 10.000 year old holocron (which would be 14.000 bby) couldn`t have taught him any lightsaber skills.
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021, may I recommend: punctuation. 👍
@@Enrico_Palazzo_opera_singer juyo did existed at time it was only 40 years before the revan era by your lack of kun acknowledge of his statement escalate quotes and sources you aren't atrue exar kun fan, freedon nadd estate from the beginning that exar kun possessed far more raw force power than ulic qel droma exar kun when on get the dark holocrom which possessed over 10,000 years of sith magic archemy rituals lightsaber skills echani Martial arts he mastered techniques from tulak hord a sith lord who could kill 100 jedis masters singlehandedly he also mastered lightsaber skills from the jedi exile he easily defeated a luke Skywalker who was 3 times more powerful than return of the jedi vader, do your research before you talk about kun
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 indeed...you have a strange accent😶...might I ask where you are from?
anyhow...you motivated me to research juyo a bit more...it became an established form round about the jedi civil war....which was decades after Kun`s defeat...so it´s fair to question whether kun had any exposure to it. Where exactly does it say that Kun was a master of Juyo?
...and how does tulak hord fit in all of this?...He had his first appereance in KOTOR...which was published years after the tales of the jedi + jedi academy books...Can you state your sources on this?
I would be humbly delighted to learn more from such a mighty Exar Kun fan like you.
Hey I want to ask two paradoxical questions if one Makashi practitioner fought against a group of Shii-cho practitioners who would win
And if one Shii-cho practitioner had to fight a group of Makashi practitioners who would win
It depends on how skilled they are in these forms. Like Dooku is another level of form 2, completely mastered. It shouldn’t be questioned if he could hold his own in a random interaction with a group of form 1 users. He could beat Anakin and Obi-Wan at the same time in his prime so he could definitely win against others easily
This might be an odd, unrelated topic, but what if Darth Bane Challenged Luke Skywalker to a DEBATE about their opposing views of the Force? Is it like Venom or Fire? What would the debate sound like? How civil would they be until one of them snaps? Or better yet, imagine Kreia debating(Arguing, really) on the nature of the Force with someone like Yoda.
A hypothetical debate between Bane & Luke is something that has fascinated both me and the other Fanalysis guys for years, especially after reading Luke's comments in the Book Of Sith. We believe the debate would be quiet and civil, the tension subliminal, and the violence beginning formally.
As for a debate partner for Darth Traya, Yoda is good, An'ya Kuro is better, but Vergere is ideal. Jocasta Nu would be hilarious.
@@Jensaarai1 Oh God, Jocasta would be pure, saturated comedy gold. I never considered An'ya Kuro, mainly because Grand Master Yoda is pretty concluded on what the Force is, and that would drive Kreia Nuts. But for the sake of restraint, it would probably be best to keep Atris out of it. I agree that the debate between Luke and Bane would be quiet and civil, at least at first. What's funny is, I got the whole idea for this debate thing from that same passage from the Book of Sith as well.
@@nickthepick8043 i enjoy this particular read put a smile on my face.
@@greensaber-specialagent.95 I'm glad you liked it!
In frame 3:16 who is the guy with the red bladed curved hilt lightsaber?
I think that's Darca Nyl.
@@aqeeljupri3516 thanks for that just looked it up.
I'd like to see a forcecast episode about yall's opinion on the new Kenobi show.
Please do a redux of Vader vs Malgus.
I've been working on that script for some time now, it's about 2/3 of the way done.
@@Jensaarai1 nice. I look forward to it.
Jen, I'm curious, how do you came to the conclusion of scaling Bane's lightning being such a huge deciding factor in this fight. I notice you scaling it to Galen and Starkiller, touting it as "master level," applications, yet none of those force users on the merit of their own power reserves could tax Vader's defenses. This feels like extreme supposition, in Bane's favor, also disregarding in universe scaling, and your own logic.
You conceded already that Vader's scale could match, if not best Bane's, especially for TK, and that his applications are more diverse. This also makes sense, since Vader in the Baneite scaling from the novels and fact file, would technically still be far above Bane, even with Vader's injuries in mind, since Vader has multiple quotes directly scaling him to Palpatine. The irony here being, that force users like Galen would as well, scale higher than Bane, via the logic of his own scaling, in addition to those duels with Galen and Starkiller, being pre prime Vader, and a Vader that was holding back (via Sam witwer interviews on the force unleashed 3, being Vader not holding back, and actually hunting the clone.)
So I ask, how does a Vader, who featwise, by word of mouth from those who worked on c canon EU works, the internal universe Banenite scaling, a Vader you matched to Bane's power, get completely bested by Bane's force abilities?
Bro you are correct, he doesn't know what he talks about he disregards scaling/statements and showing too fit his agenda or he twists and disregard certain aspects to fit his bias. He is all opinion no fact.
Vader has probably 20-30 statements putting him above all prequel jedi
So most of your stance seems contingent on two main things:
First, the comments made in reference to the potential TFU III game that never was…
Thing is, because it never came to fruition, the comments made concerning it can’t be considered as much more than mere food-for-thought.
Second, Banite-scaling. If you’ve read the Plagueis novel, you should know the RoT stopped with Plagueis and Sidious. None of Sidious’ apprentices benefit from Banite/RoT-scaling.
@@TinyTorah I am basing it off Anakin scaling as the most powerful character in rots. Vaders scales above anakin and sll prequel era characters which had the strongest sith and jedi until that point history.
@@scerkann3966 , I’ve already countered this in a doc, but RUclips comments aren’t accepting it? So I’m trying to figure that out. 🫤
They’re close enough in Force abilities, and Vader has a massive weakness to force lightning purposefully built into his suit by Sidious.
Would love to see Darth Caedus vs Count Dooku.
that would be a really interesting match up!
It's a cool matchup but ultimately Dooku hasn't a prayer of beating one of the Top 5 Sith in galactic history via a straight up duel. Caedus is simply too powerful.
Rip dooku. He has little chance there.
That was pretty neat video despite my difference towards the match and so on.
As for match ideas that I could throw you...hmm...
Lady Lumiya vs. Anakin Skywalker;
Count Dooku vs. Mara Jade Skywalker;
Lucien Draay vs. Quinlan Vos [Legends];
Darth Malak vs. Ulic Qel-Droma;
Darth Zannah vs. Darth Malgus.
Lumiya 7/10. Anakin has never encountered a weapon like hers before, and with how clever and evasive she is might be able to slip past his defenses and overwhelm him before he can counter with the Force. Really interesting matchup though.
Mara 5.5/10. Dooku is a very challenging opponent between his Makashi expertise and combative Force powers which arguably exceed hers, but Mara is such a dirty and unpredictable fighter that can attack in ways that Dooku might not be expecting from a Jedi. It's super close but I think Mara's relative youth and better stamina might carry her to a win just barely.
Draay 6/10. This is another tough one, both are vicious fighters but I would put Lucien's overall performance level as marginally higher than Vos' based on what I've seen of both characters. Vos' best dueling feats were carried out under the influence of battle meditation, without that his chances of a victory over Bulq are dubious in the extreme.
Ulic 6/10 unless Malak is amped by the Star Forge. He has superior endurance and dueling feats, enough to offset Malak's broader array of Force powers.
This one really depends on how well Malgus can contend with Zannah's sorcery. Being the inhuman Dark Side bulldozer he is, Malgus might just have the mental fortitude to handle the effects. On the other hand, all Zannah needs is a brief distraction to capitalize on an opening and end him. It's hard to call.
Lumiya whips Anakin to death literally.
Im split. Dooku is more skilled swordsman and powerful force user, but Mara can contend with force users more powerful than Dooku and her alt weaponry skills would give Dooku a rough time. She also has better stamina so could outlast Dooku in a war of attrition.
Lucien. Vos has some tricks like Vaapad and force lightning but Dray is the better swordsman and more powerful with the force (outside of times when Vos digs deep). Vos's best showing as a duelist were battle meditation amped.
Malak. Comp as swordsman, but Ulic doesn't make a lot of use out of his force abilities, while Malak does. Force Stun and Lightning are main examples + potentially drain and sorcery.
Depends entirely on how Malgus handles Zannah's sorcery. Will Zannah break Malgus mind or will he overcome it with rage and force of will like Darth Bane did.
Damn. Usually when people throw around match-up ideas, they’re almost always awful, but literally each of these are REALLY good. 👌
Good video, very good video.
Darth Maul vs Assajj Ventress ( legends). Lucien Draay vs Ki Adi Mundi. Antares Draco vs Quinlan Vos. Darth Malak vs Cao Cen Darach. Darth Wredd vs Cal Kestis. Kir Canos vs Jango Fett. Darth Krayt ( resurrection) vs Darth Sidious ( dark empire). Padawan Anakin Skywalker vs Wolf Sazen. Ki Adi Mundi vs Antares Draco. An Odd match up but Sith Lord Starkiller( dark side dlc) vs Darth Malak. I think some of the what if, non canon stories could be interesting to explore.
I'm actually working on Darth maul vs ventress and I've already done cao cen durach vs Darth Malak
How about Luke Skywalker Fate of the Jedi era vs Revan Rebirth
Yo, it's coming out on my birthday!
Dude, it on my birthday!!! I love JensaaraiOne!!!
Happy birthday! What a great present
I'd say Vader has the edge on Bane, because he is stronger in the force. When in comes to Form V vs Form V with masters of it on both sides, you can hardly declare a winner, as it has such good offensive and defensive capabilities.
Vader has more Force POTENTIAL. In terms of actualized Force power, it’s very debatable whether or not he was more powerful than, say, Darth Bane.
@@TinyTorah especially not after losing 4 limbs
Me upon seeing the result of this matchup: “A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.”
What about rahm kota vs Obi wan both are tanks that refuse to die ?
Rahm Kota was considered inferior to Kazdan Paratus and far below Shaak Ti when he first fought Galen. Later he was ragdolled by Vader's telekinesis, I think he does not have it in him to truly challenge Kenobi. It might play out like a shorter, easier version of the A'sharad vs Kenobi fight.
It would be cool if you were to feature Brakiss at one point. IMO he is an interesting character and a solid duelist with a strong affinity for elemental abilities both fire and lightning. One of the few Star Wars characters that might realistically use firebending in a duel. It's true that he never did so against Luke, but I think thats more due to him not wanting to trigger a force-contest against Grandmaster Luke, a rather sound tactical decision.
So I posted Brakiss vs Disney Grand Inquisitor as a joke because assuming Brakiss won, then an apprentice Inquisitor beat the highest ranked Disney Inquisitor.
Brakiss pyrokinesis abilities and potential ability to cast supernova is really impressive.
@@robertgeorge4602 Yeah, I think Brakiss kind of sold himself short when he talked about trying to reach the level of Naga Sadow, given that Sadow used a meditation sphere, special crystals and a prolonged period of time to create a supernova, while Brakiss could manipulate solar flares on his own, while talking to Zekk.
I'd Say Brakiss was at least Vader's equal as a duelist due to the fact that he contended with Jedi Master Luke.
Referring to Bane as "An over-the-hill bodybuilder." is so positively brutal is caught me off-guard.
Not inaccurate, though.
Except it IS actually inaccurate since a vast majority of bodybuilders are ironically very out of shape. They build muscle for aesthetic instead of for function.
6:24 Someone refresh my memory. Who is that on the left?
That would be Blade master Kass'im from Path of Destruction
@@dimond360_ I’ve never actually seen a picture of him, but I remember him. Thanks.
@@hillhouseproductions that’s all good. I’m pretty sure it’s the only official piece of art of him beside fan pieces
@@dimond360_ It's not official art, it is a fan piece as well.
I can’t remember, why did bane remove the bugs/armor from his body?
Because they were poisoning him due to the force lightning
Overcharged electricity; when a Jedi developed a Force Barrier around Bane channeling his Force Lightning back into him, causing many of the bugs to die and release the toxins into his body.
Because they increased his aggression and pain. That made him more powerful, but lessened his control over his emotions and made it hard for him to do precise tasks like building a holocron. Even before he got blasted by his own lightning, he had decided to remove them, but when they were fried it became a medical necessity.
@@maxmustermann9058 Correction: He had decided to remove them when he thought they were making it impossible to build a holocron, but that turned out not to be the issue (the issue being, as he learned from Belia Darzu's holocron, the necessity of a capstone to prevent the degradation of the holocron). When he found that out he decided to potentially reconsider removing the orbalisks, but Worror Dowmat kinda forced his hand.
@@tompossessed1729 no… massively reductive answer there. 😅
This is the most solid vs video i ever seen and all of them mostly suck good job man!!!
How about Abeloth vs Jar Jar binks?
Esqueeze me!
I wonder what Antoine thinks of this, since if my memory serves me he made a video for this once
Yeah he did and the outcome doesn’t sit right
@@tompossessed1729 agreed, that video has not aged well and I wish Antoine would go back and redo it, sadly he's done doing star wars stuff.
Yeah, he started with Obalisk Bane so already the whole premise was a bit off, Vader is one of the few who can physically compete but with out force lighting Vader was kinda up the creek without a paddle in that scenario
@@darthmetum3324 , it would have to be some crazy powerful force lightning.
It’s a misconception that the orbalisks were weak against electricity. They were vulnerable to it, but not weak against it; they protected the host against electricity more so than not. To simplify it, you have 2 equally healthy average individuals of the same species. You electrify them just enough to kill an average member of their species. One has the orbalisks, and the other doesn’t. The one with the orbalisks lives.
(That said, it takes a near superhuman to endure wearing the orbalisks, but that’s besides the point 😅)
Coming from a Martial standpoint they use form 5 bit different this is an interesting fight because this fight can look very sophisticated and very ugly again Darth bane at the end of his life was a very finesseful lightsaber along with form 5 + 7 + 3 and no doubt he took elements from his former master because he was versed in every lightsaber style same thing with the Darth Vader now when they retool their style at the end of their life cycle unfortunately Darth Vader is going to get the better of it when we add their physicality, durability, stamina and who can get the better of their intervals if the fight goes longer when they trade versatility and diversity with one another again he's a very interesting fight as far as lightsaber combat goes.
Good vid and matchup but I don't know if it's quite as cut and dry as Bane overwhelming Vader with lightning, especially when you look at the enormous amount of punishment he took from Starkiller before succumbing to it (thanks to the suit being partially insulated). Sure, Bane is more focused and powerful in the Dark Side than Starkiller and so is Sidious, but it's worth pointing out in the latter that Vader had already been weakened by Luke beforehand.
In any case this is an *extremely* close battle and I personally think Vader edges out DoE Bane 5.5/10 on the back of his cybernetics boosting physical strength combined with Vader's extensive battle experience and fluency with other forms outside Djem So, but if you take Bane with his orbalisk armor from RoT it's a different fight entirely.
Except the novelizations for TFU I and II take precedence over the games in terms of official-ness since the games were deliberately made to be exaggerated.
We agree it’s extremely close, just on opposite sides of the spectrum for who we think we’d eek out a win here.
Bane, without cybernetically-enhanced strength already has better strength feats than Vader, like, while notably weakened, being able to rip a durasteel door off its hinges with his bare hands.
Bane and Vader use the same forms: primarily Djem So, but supplemented with Makashi, Soresu, and Juyo.
And yep, Bane in his orbalisks would indeed easily beat Vader.
Agree. Banes knowledge of the force was far greater than Darth Vader, and Bane was a pure dark sider without Darth Vaders conflict with light/dark and his psychological/emotional difficulties
True, Bane had already conquered his demons and used them to feed his power. Vadar on the other hand didn't have complete control of his emotional state, which would sometimes work against him.
Have you guys seen the new Behind The Scenes footage of Anakin and the stunt actor for Obi Wan their is also the new Behind the Scenes footage of Anakin And Obi Wan vs Dooku it’s awesome I suggest using them in your videos impressive choreography.
A well thought out video, although i find it sad that Vader is trivialized by virtue of his cybernetics, Bane´s apparant victory predicated on that weakness alone seemingly.
I would Vader cause of his advance lightsaber skills and his connection to the dark side. But Darth Bane has force lightning and is a strong force user as well but don't think to Vader's level.
force lightning isn't an automatic win condition for bane, as vader can still block it with his lightsaber. Bane would need to launch it when vader isn't suspecting he would do so
I agree. Vader is likely stronger than Darth Bane, and between 2 power-duelists that is a decisive factor: similar to Speed between Yoda and Windu.
Plus, for all his hype, Darth Bane was not a dedicated combat-Force wielder. powerful and dangerous, yes, but his best feats are academic, reality-bending and alchemic in nature: creating the Rule-of-Two & Force rituals, forming a pocket in space to travel between planets, and creating his own holochron). Heck, not even Luke Skywalker ever created his own, personal Holochron, which really is saying something listed with the rest of Bane's resume.
Vader's realm is battle, and his career as a Sith Lord is built on killing Jedi and preparing to fight Darth Sidious; he never succeeded with the latter, but it is telling that should the 2 of them fight, Darth Vader could pull a "take you with me" option to spite Sidious, and succeed (which is actually how he killed the Emperor). Vader is a combat pragmatist, while Darth Bane is a martial-purist; and he did fall prey to a similar tactic with somebody FAR less powerful than Vader: Master Worror's Force-bubble with Lightning.
Lightning in my eyes means Darth Bane can contend with Vader; but Bane's extremely conventional, textbook skills, Vader's greater endurance and use of the environment, plus how Vader starts duels on defense and gradually escalates, plus greater combat Force-powers; they stack the odds in the cyborg's favour.
@@geoffreyedgson7875I agree completely with what your saying. From how described them is perfect.
@@geoffreyedgson7875 how is rule of two reality bending wtf
@@TrajGreekFire Read the paragraph. I wrote that Darth Bane's greatest accomplishment were academic or philosophical, then reality bending and alchemic as separate feats.
The Rule of Two was his academic magnum opus. Elsewhere, between Dxun and Onderon, soon after the Orbalisks infected him Darth Bane created a pocket in the vacuum of space to bridge the atmosphere's of both planets and pass from one, to the other. That was the reality-bending feat; and while he did have Orbalisk's to accomplish it, that power-boost elevated Bane to the heights his power could accomplish.
The Orbalisks were not like Darth Vitiate's Sith Rituals or Darth Plageuis' Midichlorian-manipulation; powers which could alter an individual's relation to and magnitude with the Force. The Parasites which Bane had pushed his power's to the zeinith of his own magnitude. Still extremely impressive, but a high I think he experienced again after removing them, though his repertoire and comprehension of his own powers expanded between "Rule of Two" and "Dynasty of Evil."
What about a tournament between the strongest light/dark side force users like Krayt anakin luke bane etc (Anakin sees Vader “oh you gotta be sh*ting me”)
Which version of Bane?
Dynasty of Evil
Bring the council back
Based on feats banite scaling does not make sense, Sidious is not any number of times stronger than Bane and has never demonstrated as such,
Thank you.
Personally, I regard the difference between Bane and Sidious as being no greater than the difference between Sidious and Vader.
@@Jensaarai1 cool video can a versus video on mace Windu vs Darth Vader.
I feel Sidious has shown far greater magnitude, his Force Storms and draining of Byss are more impressive than anything Bane has done.
That said i agree that taking the "Banite scaling" too literally is wrong, as to put the likes of Darth Maul leagues beyond Bane and Zannah is stupid.
@@Jensaarai1 Bane and Sidious should not be in the same sentence, Bane's biggest weakness in that series is that he has no aptitude for Sith sorcery... Excellent trilogy but Bane is one dimensional, a excellent duelist but outclassed often.
Banes biggest strength was his foresight leading to the future of the Sith, he was an intellect.
We have seen Vader lose as well, but frankly he has faced much better competition and has more impressive feats.
Bane was never really the best at anything and it wasn't his goal.
Would be cool if next it was Darth Zannah vs Darth Vader and on down the list of rule of 2 sith just to see how many Vader wins.
Given the Banite Sith in general increased in skill and power, this is kind of pointless.
@@TinyTorah if that were true fully and wholly then Vader should never have lost to Bane in this matchup.
@@tnntaronewsnetwork4514 I never said it was true “fully and wholly” though. I said “in general.”
@@TinyTorah ok. Then Dooku and Maul were both rule of two sith. Would they beat Vader then? Of course they wouldn’t, showing that not every rule of two sith was a direct line of being stronger than the last
@@tnntaronewsnetwork4514, Plagueis and Sidious were the last members of The Rule of Two. Sidious’ apprentices don’t benefit from RoT-scaling.
Dooku was only ever considered by Sidious as a placeholder, not a real true apprentice, and both Maul and Vader were robbed of their potential. By the time Sidious discovered Maul was alive, he already had moved his sights onto Anakin.
FINALLY Dynasty of Evil Darth Bane is about to get some ACTION!
I feel like Vader would win because his Lightsaber technique i find to be more developed and balanced, he would match Bane with the same strenght and outduel him in the long run, i don't see Bane's Lightning advantage as that definitive, he could win that way, sure, but i find the possibility of Vader outdueling him more likely, also Vader has shown the same ammount of magnitude in the Force as Bane or even greater, he could potentially resist Bane's lightning to get a killing blow, after all he was able to tank Sidious' Lightning long enough to kill him in spite of being injured and he was able to defend himself agianst Starkiller's Lightning, both Starkiller and Sidious have more raw power than Bane, so Vader should come out on top even in the late fight, albeit heavily damaged.
Also i feel Vader has the physical advantage, Bane is basically a 40 year old retired boxer with signs of premature aging, while Vader's cybernetics kept him at a monstruous performance that dwarfs even prime Anakin's, who was fitter than Bane with his shown strenght feats.
Bane never put Order ahead of his own interests- Bane identified them as one and the same.
Bane might have appeared to put the good of the Sith ahead of himself, but pure self-interest is the entire rationale of Sith-ness from the beginning; if anything he's the opposite of "claiming to" put something ahead of his own ego, because he actually thinks that he's driven ENTIRELY by selfish motives and self-sufficiency even though there are little hints that this isn't 100% the case.
In his own mind though, he destroyed the Brotherhood of Darkness because they were no longer of no use to him or his desires for greatness and were even a hinderance. As far as Bane is concerned, he remade the Sith into a stronger and purer order for one reason and one reason only- to cement HIS OWN legacy. He would look at every Sith Lord that came after him the same way a narcissist would look at his own children- he would measure their worth by how much they furthered his own ambitions and legacy. He'd look at the rise of the Galactic Empire and think "I did that", and he'd look at the fall of that same Empire and think "Sidious and Vader have failed me / betrayed me".
It's a paradoxical thing with the Sith where they might talk about the good of the Order, but the whole premise of the Order is absolute egotism. Bane is Lawful Evil, but the sort that thinks "Lawful Means achieves Evil Ends"- he views the strict rules he has laid down as being essential to the achievement of real personal glory and power, and the lack of them as leading to laziness and failure. It might seem like he's giving advice to future Sith Lords for their own good and the good of the Sith Order, but in reality he's thinking more like a conqueror giving training and commands to his subordinates so they don't screw up his own grand ambitions.
Bane would be disgusted and contemptuous with everyone who thinks that he's been doing all of this for anyone other than Bane.
I am surprised and RESPECTFULLY disagree.
Here is why bane is not prime with or without the OA meaning form 5 and 7 are going to tire him out the longer the fight goes fatigue is the issue that no one seems to bring up here coupled with the fact form 7 boost offense at the expense of everything else couple mounting fatigue
and vaders knowledge of counters and know how with vader having increase stamina the longer this fight goes in my opinion the worst it gets for bane one hit on just like luke vs bane
should end bane, not vader due to cybernetics for his durability.
Thats just blade 2 blade now add tk, alter environment, and a battlefield setting like the hanger bay from old republic trailer darth bane banes dies.
I loved the video as always thank you jen1.
Yes, if the fight goes on its in Vader's favor but the issue is Bane has the skill to hold back Vaderas a duelist, and if Bane can get either enough or a strong enough blast of force lighting Vader will be killed and the chances of that happening are low but enough that it's basically Vader winning 4.5 out of 10 and Bane 5.5 out of 10 or even closer. I agree that much like Malgus Vader surpasses or equals his opponents physically, is an overall better duelist, but with the Sith of old they match Vader in power in the force and lighting gives them an excellent weapon against Vader by holding on in the lightsaber duel they can beat hum with enough lightning.
@@darthmetum3324 Thank u. Healthy talk.
Side comment, do you think Bane would have chosen Vader to be an apprentice over Zannah if given the choice like he was going to do with Darth Cognus?
No. Zannah>Vader.
Plus, Bane wanted someone whom he could pour his ideology into. Note how Zannah failed in her attempt to make Set Harth her apprentice, not because he was too weak or anything, but because he wasn’t interested in the ideology. Vader was mentally manipulated into kind of being part of The Rule of Two. He would never have CHOSEN it.
I’m not sure about Zannah being above Vader. She’s physically outclassed both physically (Bane specifically teaching her exclusively in the third form of lightsaber combat because it’s the only form she’d be able to utilize effectively due to her slim build, and admitted outright that she was not able to stand up to Bane in a physical confrontation-both during his time in the Orbalisk Armor and when he was getting on in his mileage during Dynasty of Evil) and absolutely outclassed as a lightsaber duelist (again, Zannah admitting outright she’d lose to Bane-who uses a less technically varied and nuanced version of Djem So than Vader). Raw Power and usage of the force during combat is also Vader’s game, as Zannah has only been shown using her Fear powers during combat-and only when she’s able to get a break in a duel to slip them in, which Vader’s vastly superior saber skills wouldn’t give her the luxury to do so.
However-that is a fair point about Zannah being more ideologically ideal for Bane. She was-to put it blankly-a blank slate for Bane to mold into carrying on his lineage for him. Vader on the other hand had his own agendas to follow. He was a post “Grand Plan” Sith Lord-he had aspirations to overthrow his master not just for the sake of the Banite Legacy, but to usurp control of the galaxy from him. Were Bane’s holocron to come to Vader in a post Revenge of The Sith timeframe-he’d absolutely teach him, if nothing else but to further along the line in one who can be seen as a future parallel of himself.
@@kylemc2290
@@kylemc2290 , cool. RUclips obliterated my comment. Lovely. Well, I hardly remember most of what I said, but in essence, it was disagreeing with your first stanza, but agreeing with your second. 😅
Depends if before or after Mustafar and Bane's point in his career.
Bane wanted the rule of 2 to be Sith infiltrators that would take over with cunning and treachery not open conflict.
Vader is intelligent and can manipulate but that's not something he would excel in.
Before Mustafar, I would say yes because bane would sense Vader's insane potential. Bane would have confidence that the rule of 2 is in good hands with an apprentice that powerful. And Vader's desire for power and skillset means he would learn quite a bit from Bane.
After Mustafar, no. Vader isn't a great infiltrator as a Cyborg in Sith Dark Armor. Bane would sense Vader's light and wouldn't want to deal with it. Bane wanted an apprentice who 100% commits to the dark side and could be molded to his ideologies. And Vader would never due to that due to the inner light that remains.
why havent you done revan?
Edit: this guy's done malak so the reasons a guy in the comments used to say why he went use evan makes no sense
He hates the book
@@TrajGreekFire I do too but there's comics to use for reference as well as the games
@@Deathelement53 comics? Did some "lore" channel gave you that info? He has 0 comic feats
@@TrajGreekFire Knights of the old republic comic book series: "Am I a joke to you!?"
@@Enrico_Palazzo_opera_singer you mean like 5 panels with him that don't give us any feats?
I'd like to point out that what drives Vader is his pain and anger.
Bane would use such emotions to further fual his darkside power.
True, but not practical. Sith, and even Jedi in Windu's case, can draw emotions from another figure to empower themselves. Which functions at it's best against figures who expell said emotions to elevate their output; as even young Obi-Wan Kenobi did on Naboo after Qui-Gon was impaled. Yet Darth Vader internalizes his power rather than expelling it, favouring absolute control and proactively avoiding a berserker's state which traditional Sith Warrior's favour, since that approach led him to wind up a quadriplegic on Mustafar.
ALso, you accurately recognized that Vader utilizes self-hatred and internalized emotions rather than external rage. He doesn't project on or draw emotions from an external figure, like Darth Malgus' or Darth Sidious' rage against Jedi. Since he keeps an internal furnace instead of drawing external fuel to empower himself, Bane, or even Mace Windu's Vapaad effect, are inhibited from drawing power from Vader to elevate themselves.
An excellent analysis. But I think Darth Vader would win. Forget TFU and Galen Marek. Vader was made deliberately weak so he could be defeated as a mid-boss. The belief that Vader cannot defend against Force Lightning is ridiculous. Sure, it’s a convenient McGuffin to sideline Vader whenever the plot calls for it. But in reality, even Anakin Skywalker was no stranger to Force Lightning. Vader WOULD have eventually learned to resist, control, or deflect it with The Force. It’s pretty much the only thing Vader has to fear. In the OT, Vader took enough of it to glow from the inside-out. And that’s before we even saw the “new” (previously unseen) Force abilities showcased in the Prequels and Rogue One. It’s unreasonable to compare on-screen ROTJ Vader with current and even EU “canon”. Vader is FAR more powerful.
Accept it, you must.
There’s also the fact that Vader knew Tutaminis and could deflect blaster bolts with his “bare” hands. Sure it’s mentioned he can’t deflect force lightning, but I don’t see why he couldn’t use the power to at least limit the damage.
And the only times he’s been incapacitated by force energy was:
1. Luke redirecting an amped Vader’s kinetite blast into his face. And even then that just left him dazed, he was still in the fight.
2. The Starkiller clone amped by dark rage and absorbing the power of storm managed to incapacitate Vader, *after* getting Vader to drop his guard. And even then his suit still worked.
3. His death at the hands of Palpatine. One of the strongest Sith Lords in galactic history who is known to specialize in force lightning. And even then Vader used the dark side to push through the pain and injury. It wasn’t until minutes later Luke took his mask off and he stopped fighting did he finally die. Implying that if he kept going he might’ve been able to live with the proper medical care.
He’s also blocked force lightning many times with his lightsaber. So to say force lightning is some kind of trump card is ludicrous. Maybe ROTS Vader when he just got his suit would be weak to it. But after 20 years of experience and upgrading his suit with insulation ironically Darth Vader would probably be more resistant to force lightning than Mace Windu.
Vader got beated by darth maul bane would destroy him
great video
darth sidious vs darth krayt
naw fam i dont think krayts body can handle the attrition rate that he'll have to fight against to keep up with sidious plus im pretty sure even earlier in the fight sidious would be able to identify krayts affliction from his crab armor if not then my first theory would be the most likeliest outcome darth krayt is literally like red hulk his power output is crazy but he has no cooldown system
and by that he just burns out
Depends on which iteration of both characters…
@@TinyTorah sidious in episode 3
Kyrat after he killed wyyrlok iii
@@imember7375 then yeah, that would arguably be a decent match-up. 👍