I agree that Darth Sidious completely outclassed Lord Vader in terms of raw power in the force, but I believe Vader could beat Sidious in a lightsaber duel.
For me, this whole match is decided on whether or not Vader could survive Yoda until he either tired the old master out or managed to get a good hit in, one likely preceding the other. And I can see Vader surviving Yoda's onslaught of Lightsaber attacks, either through his defence or his mechanical body keeping him alive until the time was right to retaliate. To me, this dynamic is parallel with the hypothetical match-up of Muhammad Ali vs Mike Tyson. Yoda/Tyson, would come out with an absolute avalanche of blows and strikes, which Vader/Ali, would do everything they can to survive to wait until the later stages of the fight. And then, Vader/Ali, would still have the stamina to put up a fight by the end of it all, while Yoda/Tyson, would be tired after spending all his energy on the blitzkrieg right at the start. If Vader/Ali made even a single mistake, then they'd be gone. If they took Yoda/Tyson anything less than seriously, they'd be done. But if they played it right and held on, then they'd be able to take Yoda/Tyson out as they struggled to even stay in the fight. That's how I see it.
@@mansteinator True, but Vader doesn't have to physically chase Yoda, he can launch a barrage of objects at the Jedi Master, similar to what Palpatine did with the Senate Pods. The key thing with that is I doubt Vader would let up like Sidious did, he clearly let himself enjoy the spectacle too much and let up his assault, something I don't see Vader doing. I highly doubt Vader would throw his Lightsaber at Yoda, because if he did then he'd be without a Lightsaber and within the time it'd take to get it back, Yoda could probably close the distance depending on how far away he is. If Vader took Yoda extremely seriously like he did with Old Ben Kenobi, Vader isn't falling into any trap that Yoda tries to lure him into. Ultimately, if Yoda disengages and tries to flee or performs a tactical retreat of any sort, Vader would not rush in to meet the much faster Jedi, I can easily see Vader letting Yoda run than try to chase him down. With that, Vader would win, not through killing Yoda, but by forcing him to quit the fight. Vader still wins.
@@darkarpatron i dont think vader has a great range of movement due to his heavy robot body so yoda can leap into a blind spot or slide between vaders legs and cut himoff at the kneecaps
@@theatricult That's definitely a possibility, and Vader would be stupid to disregard it. Vader may not have a great range of movement, but so long as he knows where Yoda _might_ try to hit him from, he can, to some degree, predict from what angle Yoda is gonna come from. Again, if Vader, with his cybernetic augmentations can survive and outlast Yoda, who has been shown to tire easily and quickly, I think that is Vader's best chance at victory against the Jedi Grand Master. I do not see Vader successfully breaking Yoda's guard or catching him mid-kata, certainly not straight away, but the longer the fight goes on, the more tired Yoda gets, and if Vader has done a good enough job surviving the short green lightsaber blitz, he'll have a chance in the late fight, and Vader has proven multiple times to outlast an opponent. Unlike Galen Marek, Yoda can't/won't use the force against Vader because of his disinclination, unlike Luke Skywalker, Yoda can't bring the strength needed to overpower Vader. What Yoda has against Vader is blinding speed, and that's it. Now if Vader slips up or doesn't take it seriously, he's gone. But if he keeps calm, does things right and takes it seriously, I think he's got what it takes to survive, and either force Yoda into a retreat or score a lethal blow to the tired Jedi. Though I will point out that the latter sounds unlikely, even to me. Basically, Vader survives and wins, or else he's cut down within the first bout. The former is what I believe is most likely.
@@darkarpatron thats fair though id argue yoda and vader are comparable in the force since anakin never reaches his potential and while i cant see him evading all of yodas strikes hes almost certainly getting hit with a glancing blow vaders armor is saber resistant so yoda needs to land a killing blow to outright win which i could see him doing if he focused his mind towards it but its more that yoda doesnt have the will to fight longer cause that would require investment and investments just another name for attachment
Truth is, they would love to do them! The only problem is there is usually not enough information presented to give a fair accurate assessment to declare a winner. They do not want to do guess work and give a half ass result. It would not be a good testament to there work.
Possibilities are far from exhausted! If he could do Jerec, Maw, & Boc, he could do Sariss too. Paratus -> Maris Brood, Desolous ... Desann! Nihilus! (with a foe just right) Arcann! Kyp Durron! Kas'im! Zez-Kai Ell! Kharys! etc...
Palpatine himself told Vader imagine what Yoda would have done to you if he had showed up to Mustafar instead of Obi-Wan. Even Vaders master thought that Yoda would have killed him.
@@rx7enjoyer240Pre-suit Vader would have smoked Yoda kid. What are you even talking about. George Lucas SAID HIMSELF he would’ve killed Sidious. That had he just kept a clear head and dispatched Kenobi on Mustafar, he THEN would have went and killed Sidious. Sidious himself literally ADMITS to Vader that he had surpassed him. That he was his superior. “You have done well, my new apprentice. Do you feel your power growing?” “Yes, my master.” Lord Vader, your skills are *unmatched* by *any* Sith before you. Go now, and bring peace to The Empire.” That’s including HIMSELF. That is a direct quote/line from the ROTS film novelization-DIRECTLY edited BY Lucas himself. Which ALSO goes on to make very clear that Vader would have killed Sidious had Mustafar not happened. “He already had the measure of his new master. Soon, their relationship would undergo a sudden . . . Transformation.” Period…. Matthew Stover, the writer of said ROTS novelization directly stated: “Everything in it was there because Mr. Lucas wanted it there. Everything removed was because Mr. Lucas wanted it gone.” Period. There IS NO getting around that. Your opinion is irrelevant; Pre-suited Vader would smoke the suited Vader without any sort of debate. He was literally 40% stronger than the suited Vader ever was directly according to Lucas himself like he stated it clear as day…. He was SUPPOSED to originally be the one to fight and kill Windu. Lucas originally WROTE it that way. Where do you think The videogame adaption GETS that from???? Directly from Lucas himself; it was based off of the original screenplay, it began development before Lucas ever changed the script late in production. It was literally made AT Skywalker ranch alongside Lucas himself and the film creative team, along with every other ROTS project/adaption, to make sure they all aligned as best as possible. Lucas was heavily involved with all of them. You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.
@@dazdavis7896 simply not the case in current canon Lucas has little control over it anymore. Also for the examples you listed would you be so kinda as to provide sources?
I think Yoda has the ability to get into Vader’s more conservative guard to get at his cybernetics. Yoda would have only one shot at it, just like Luke had one shot with the 1st Death Star. Do or die or in his case do not. If Yoda fails....Vader beats him, however if Yoda gets beyond Vader’s conservative style protecting his chest piece..It will be a quick death at Yoda’s hand.
39:55 The only reason that Yoda was one the worse end, was because A. he stood on the edge of the platform, while Sidious stood in the middle behind the protective barrier, and B. because he was much lighter. Sidious couldn't overpower him with lightning, which was very clearly visible by the end. I stand by my statement of you being pretty biased and misinformed on this one. You seem to low-ball Yoda almost every time you talk about him.
Well, you are left with 2 options here: either Yoda was incapable or incompetent. If he was outmatched by skill/strength in the force, he was incapable. If he was beaten by poor footing/tactics, he was incompetent. A loss is still a loss, and those are the main two reasons. The only alternative is he allowed Sidious to believe that he had the upper hand, but this is usually done inorder to lull the opponent into a false sense of security, to finish them off. Since Yoda ran afterward, we can rule that explanation out.
Sidious also can keep up with Yoda in terms of speed and force powers. Vader can't really do either. Vader is better than Yoda in technical lightsaber skills. But his bulky build means he just can't move fast enough.
I understand where you're coming from, but no, Vader is not superior to Yoda as a force user and would definitely not be the victor here. First of all, Vader has been stated to be AT MOST 80% of Sidious' power level, given the range of anywhere from 70-80%. Yoda, on the other hand, is a near equal to Sidious in power, by my estimate and I'm sure others saying that he is about 95% of Sidious' power (this is shown in his contention with Sidious, never being outright overpowered by him, even stalemating him in some instances). Right off the bat, this is a huge disparity. I'm not saying that Vader couldn't compete with Yoda, he most likely could for a short while, however, Vader would definitely fall to him in terms of force powers similarly to the way Obi-Wan fell to Dooku in their final duel on the Invisible Hand. Obi-Wan and Dooku have a similar power disparity to Vader and Yoda based on both of the characters' respective magnitude of abilities. While Obi-Wan can cope with a full force assault from Dooku when actively defending, when he is caught off guard or not employing an active defense, he is overpowered and incapacitated. The same principle applies to Vader and Yoda. I'm not saying that Vader isn't superior in his application of the force, in fact, I believe he is definitely more tactical than Yoda with his use of it; however, Yoda is just too powerful for Vader to handle. You are correct in stating that Vader's style works perfectly against textbook lightsaber duelists LIKE Yoda. What you did not account for is that being similar to Yoda in terms of a fighting style and actually being Yoda are completely different things. When concerning Yoda's stature, his application of Ataru is the best possible fighting style for him due to the fact that he can't apply advantages of other styles. Yoda knows this and tries to make Ataru as efficient as possible while still being effective, using the basic su ma rotations to a fantastic effect. He effectively removes his height from being a problem in this regard, not relying on reach, but, rather, vertical positioning. He bolsters his application with his immense power in the force and becomes a martial hurricane, flinging himself at opponents with speed impossible to track with the naked eye, performing whichever rotation he has to to quickly cut his opponent down before he tires himself out. Vader is not equipped to take out someone this quick. You've said it yourself- Vader is slowed by his cumbersome armor. His defensive showings are impressive but not impressive enough to defeat the best duelist in the Jedi Order at the time, most likely even the era. He can contend on a technical level, but cannot compete with Yoda's speed for long. I see this fight ending in one of two ways. Either, Yoda just straight-up out fences Vader without any telekinetic abilities, pressuring him until he can't compete. Or, the more likely scenario, Yoda harasses Vader and blasts him telekinetically; while being assaulted by Yoda, he would not have enough focus or time to gather an active defense against the sheer might of Yoda. Vader would be incapacitated and cut down. Your assessment of Yoda is fine, possibly slightly biased against him. The problem with the analysis is your assessment of Vader; you rate him far too highly compared to the competition. Definitely an improvement over the original, but still low balling Yoda in comparison to Vader.
Vader may be tactically superior in his approach, but Yoda is intelligent too. His greater strength and array of powers at his disposal is, overall, superior to Vader. All Vader has is a better tactical mindset. This does not make Yoda any less powerful or knowledgeable of the force.
ThePersoner11 not arguing yoda doesnt have bigger muscles and a diploma, jensarrai is saying vader has the will to kill. Hes got the eye of the tiger. He wants, loves, needs to fight and kill. Yoda is more powerful, but not by as much as most people feel. But vader is ruthless and not pulling any punches. Yoda would try to win, vader would just want to kill him. I respect the heck out of yoda, and vader isnt even my fav sith, but its like those vids you see all the time of guys who are trained superior physical specimsns getting rocked by "inferior" dudes that fight better.
Great video good sir Huge fan and love your videos I don't care what anyone says You know your stuff and you put your hard work into these videos and give us something great Keep up the great work and I can't wait to see your next video :)
Nice use of the quote. Gives us insight into Anakin's opinion of Yoda's fighting abilities. This firsthand knowledge would give Vader the advantage. I love these Versus reduxes. They make much more sense than the originals.
I just need to say that it seems alot of people think that because Yoda was said to be the greatest jedi of his era, that he is the greatest combatant. Don't get me wrong, on the battlefield he's capable of a great deal but Yoda being the best jedi =/= being the best combatant. He was a great jedi because of his wisdom, adherence to jedi philosophy, and his effectiveness as an instructor. The entire point of the opening narration was to get the viewer to question their preconceptions about Yoda. It takes more than just mastery to be considered a great combatant. It also takes application. What's the point of Yoda being a master of Djem So if his short stature and frail frame prevent him from ever applying it in actual combat situations? Mastery and application are equally important.
VSX0021OmegaGundam But he also has been stated that he is strongest light side user that dark side or Sidious has ever known so he is extremely powerful
+397 Llederson Prime Vader and Yoda are from 2 different eras. Sure Yoda is unmatched when compared to other council masters (though I still say in pure lightsaber combat Kenobi can stone wall him), but what about Sidious?
Vader not only had more raw force ability, he also had an easier time calling it forth. Yoda was capable of great feats with the force....with enough concentration. He had to disengage from Dooku to save Anakin and Kenobi(Not sure why Dooku didn't just kill him once Yoda turned his back to him), and he had to holster his lightsaber to counter Sidious. Not only that he is shown to be very exhausted after calling on the force. When a character says Yoda was the strongest jedi, ask yourself what they define strength as and what they're comparing it to. Im not saying he wasn't powerful but there are too many factors that determine a victor in live combat. Based on raw power alone Kenobi should've lost on Mustafar, but he didn't.
Brilliant video once again. Your knowledge of lightsaber combat is astounding as ever. I seriously need to practice my skills outside. Looking forward to your next vids. Again thanks for the vid mate. :-)
Another comment in your conclusion. Apparently being an Ataru master is exactly what Vader is tooled to go up against. Yeah? You could say the same about Dooku. He knew every weakness of the Ataru form, yet ran from Yoda after a couple of minutes of lightsaber fighting. That doesn't mean nothing when we get to the top tiers of dueling.
Watchface Yoda's speed was heavely low balled as if it wasn't enought to blitz Vader since he competed with Palpatine someone who blitzed Jedi masters and his power is enough to destroy Vader
3 problems. 1) Yoda must travel far more distance to enter lethal range with his Lightsaber. A problem he attempts to circumvent with acrobatics 2) By using acrobatics he telegraphs his actions. He cannot change direction mid air. 3) Palpaine killed Tiin and Kolar through trickery, not speed.
So I have a question. If this fight theoretically happened in proximity to the kyber crystal or the myr talisman and Vader used his ability of Kynotite would Yoda's use of tutamenus block it?
This is definitely an improvement. Well done! For critique, I agree with the evidence for most of these, but you seem to be ignoring a few instances that speak on the contrary so I will address them and add my own interpretations. For Vader, I don't see why in the force abilities category you said that Yoda would win a direct engagement in the Force. In my opinion, they are far closer if not on par. In AOTC we see Yoda and Dooku matched in a telekinetic contest and I don't see any reason to say that Dooku is greater than Vader in this area. I do think it's evident that Yoda improved over the course of the war, but not to a degree that he would completely outclass Dooku. In terms of power, Yoda's dragging the separatist drop ships is by far the most impressive showing power-wise. But I don't see this as anything above what Vader can do considering Vader was able to rip albeit smaller ships out of the sky. I believe this is counteracted by the overall weight distribution of the drop ship (see the visual guide and cross sections for detail) meaning that I believe their respective showings to be on par. And everywhere else, Vader has been shown to be able to perform comparable telekinetic attacks. You say that Yoda is in effect the biggest threat around and that Vader has fought many comparable opponents, however, I see this as an unfair comparison. How many opponents has Vader fought that we can honestly say is able to hold their own and stand a legit chance of beating Vader? The only ones I can think of are Galen, Starkiller, and the Darth Maul clone. Even Kenobi, SHen Jon, Ahsoka (I know you also like to use the classic EU but I still reference Disney for info), and Kuro were all manageable threats. And any other Jedi was usually a complete joke. Yoda on the other hand fought Dooku, Palpatine, and the Bpfasshi dark jedi master (although he likely didn't engage him in lightsaber combat) who are all on par if not greater in an overall combative sense, and he has experience stomping joke opponents as well such as Ventress and the Bpfasshi. For Yoda, From the beginning I would like to say that I see Yoda's capitalization on speed and power over sustainability as a strength. As pointed out, he needs Ataru's reach and mobility and if he were to sacrifice that for a more sustainable fighting style he would still be moving around a lot and wearing himself out while getting less done. You also paint him as purely a wreaking ball which I see as incorrect. Strategy, circumventing enemies and evasion factors strongly into his fighting style as evident in the short story Duel, the microseries, and TCW (as much as we both hate it, it is still EU). Going off of this in regards to lightsaber dueling, you don't mention this or his other more nimble tactics. A good showing is against Palpatine whom he was able to disarm, which was, oddly enough, not mentioned. This is a tactic that really could be effective against Vader who was disarmed by Kuro and Luke. You also do not consider the possibility of Yoda using telekinetic attacks by taking advantage of lapses like Marek did. This is good for the most part as Yoda usually only uses force attacks when the combat lulls, but he can do it to some effect in combat as evident in TCW when he was able to perform a force push on Palpatine while going head to head. Since Vader is rather top-heavy, this will be great at throwing him off balance. You also seem to undervalue his overall defensive or balanced a lightsaber skills in combat as evident by the final duel with Palpatine when they were on the raised podium. There, Yoda seemed to employ a soresu-like defense and a makashi-like attack. Similarly in his duel with the illusionary Palpatine, he demonstrated a much more balanced fighting style. The Verdict, What I believe you have downplayed from the beginning is the overall advantage that Yoda's agility would grant him, especially against Vader. Yoda is small and fast and can flip around and to the back to strike from below and behind. Vader has shown issues with this technique against Koon, Marek, and Kuro, and Yoda takes it to the next level. I also don't understand the belief that Vader can shrug off attacks as a lightsaber strike will still do major damage as evident many times over. Your formula for Vader's victory only works if Yoda attacks from one angle with the most blunt technique possible. You mention that Vader's guard is usually only broken if you come at him from two angles, but he has shown weakness against a single opponent who many times, especially when his opponent is fast and nimble such as Marek, Koon, or Kuro.
To be fair to Yoda you really can't blame him for developing his skills the way he did. For the circumstances he lived in his skills made absolute sense.
Awesome. Great to see you back on. Love these video. Even if disagree at times lol. But still great videos. I do agree with Yoda and on his many flaws.
I always loved this take on Darth Vader vs Yoda. While I think Yoda has a significant chance of getting within Vader’s guard before time runs out, I agree that Vader’s the better combative Force wielder. The best telekinetic feats in the _Star Wars_ come from Yoda, but he takes his time to summon his power. Even the Sidious Force push looked like Yoda was gathering his energies, and that Sidious underestimated him too much to actively resist.
First off, holy fucking shit. Your orig vid is something I dearly missed when it got taken down and I wished for it to get the vader vs kun treatment. As always, thoughts after I fully watch but that post is gonna take a while. Need to fully watch 1st and I feel my critique is also going to take a while to properly write up. Thank god I still remember your orig one though.
Damn, well done. Can't disagree on a single point--and props to you for acknowledging and confronting a change of opinion, instead of just pushing it away. Very impressed by the verdict and by the rationale. I had an idea for a ForceCast you may enjoy--calling back to what we've seen in things like Revenge of the Sith, Fate of the Jedi, SWTOR and other places, what would your thoughts be about a Kill Teams video? Take powerful figures from across the Star Wars mythos, and assemble a kill team of fighters you feel could take them on. Rules would be that you get four team members total--one of comparable power to the target, one at least one tier below, and two at least two tiers below. For example, if I wanted a kill team for Darth Malgus I'd personally bring along Darth Caedus, Shaak Ti, TCW Darth Maul and Lucien Draay--Caedus to take punishment and serve as a main antagonist, Draay to exploit small openings with substantial power to make Malgus shift his focus, and the more cerebral Ti and Maul to look for a way in and ultimately cut him down. Video could take a round-robin discussion format--each ForceCast member chooses and announces a target in advance, and the others explain their teams before having a winning team chosen by the member who announced the target.
"darth vader gets the edge as a forcewielder". You're shitting me. Yoda 100% will defeat vader in any force contest. You showed a clip of yoda picking up like 70 battle droids at a time. If they're throwing shit at eachother, vader is definitely going to be on the defensive. The reason yoda had to focus so much in the movie scenes is because he was lifting very heavy objects that were falling from a great height. I agree vader is better as a lightsaber duelist in general. You seem to think vader is optimized to beat yoda, but it's the other way around. Vader's defense works well against normal human sized opponents because he relies heavily on boxing them in with foot work/ the environment and controlling their movements. He has absolutely no hope of controlling yoda's movements.... Yoda's too small and too fast. Vader has no way to attack yoda. The best case scenario for vader (outside of a lucky counterattack) is a stalemate. If he ever tries to throw a committed strike on yoda, he'll lose his head.
Absolutely incorrect, and I say this as a fan of the avatar of the light. The thing that you're missing in your assessment is that Darth Vader, like all dark siders focuses his strength and abilities towards combat whereas light siders focus on utility applications. Yes Yoda could pick up multiple items and toss them as Vader can, but while Vader does it causally, almost as an afterthought, Yoda needs to concentrate. (More) ...
... (cont'd). Yoda might be small and fast but Yoda is also advanced in age with all of the baggage that comes with it (and I'm living it, being 50 and about 80-85% of the man I was 20 years ago). He's such an insane dervish on attack because of force augmentation but that draws from his substantial but limited force reserve. All Vader needs to do is weather Yoda's offensive via Soresu and tank hits and let him burn himself out (check out Evannova's Darth Bane vs Shaak Ti as further evidence of relevance). Most importantly Yoda really didn't have the motivation to become the warrior Darth Vader was. He lived in a long stretch if time of Jedi primacy with no real obvious epic threat to compell him in that direction. A Shao Lin monk will not approach combat the same as a Mongol warrior. Again I say that as a rabid fan of the Jedi. Yoda is the better of the two, stronger in character, stronger for having been able to be so powerful ba Jedi and being able to resist the pull off the dark side, stronger for being able to draw out the best in those around him, but to ignore the fact that Vader was a better combatant is to blind yourself and underestimate your opponent. Neither are productive and both will lead you into trouble if your not careful.
Ronald Ritchie Vader has never ever reacted to someone of Yoda's speed he has moved faster than Jedi Masters could react Vader has struggled with an amped Maul,Luke,Obi-wan and Dark Woman he has never fought someone on par with Yoda who could blitz all the people i mentioned when Vader out speeds a jedi master eye sight you tell me
Would it be possible to do a matchup between Satele Shan and Nomi Sunrider? I'm not sure how much info is available on Sunrider's combative abilities, but if there is enough for her I feel as though this would be an enlightening match.
I hated you so much for your original verdict back in the day. You have explained yourself FAR better in this redux to the point that I actually agree with the outcome now. A well crafted video sir.
Though this video is very well made and to a much higher standard than your last Vader vs Yoda video i feel i disagree with the verdict for many of the same reasons. Yes Vader has a colossal endurance edge,he has more margin for error due to his massive durability edge and Yoda isnt going to over power Vader with physical strength. But i feel you missed the most critical reason Yoda beats Vader. You mentioned Vader struggles against foes who are constantly moving around and fast. This is partly due to Vaders suit and that Djem so Vader most favoured form having poor manoeuvrability. Yoda is an ataru specialist by far the most acrobatic form and due to his height he has to turn that up to 11 and as we see against Dooku and sidious he's jumping all around them the entire time he duels them. Yoda doesn't try to overwhelm his foes with the physical strength behind his blows it's his incredibly speed and that his foes are constantly being off balanced by having to twist and turn the entire fight. If his strength was the biggest problems his opponents faced then it would have been mentioned in one of his fights with Dooku considering Makashi has a weakness against strength based attacks. Because of Yodas incredibly speed, agility and the fact he's uses both as much as possible means he's Vaders worst nightmare in a duel. If Vader gets tagged by the likes of Maul and sha koon can tag Vader despite being far less powerful and less skilled duellist because of his weakness to fast and acrobatic duellist. I don't see how you can argue Yoda is going to have much trouble regularly hitting vader till Vader can fight no more
banethesithari true I also agree. Jen overrated Vader here. He also should have given Yoda the edge for force abilities. Still he put up a damn good argument for Vader. And honestly atleast it was better then that horrific Plagueis vs Obi wan match up he did with Evan. And which I choose to forget completely.
The Knight Of Darkness yeah I didn't go into how they compare with the force because I don't think it would be much of a factor given how much Yoda prefers using a light saber. Yeah Evan had gone really down hill the last few years hoth Vs bane was even worse imo than the plageuis Vs Obi wan.
+Jensaarai1 Always a pleasure to see another video from you or the rest of council. I still think you or the others need to do Darth Krayt vs. Exar Kun, Saba Sebatyne vs. Oppo Rancisis, Darth Wyyrlok III vs. Darth Malak, Zayne Carrick vs. Ferus Olin, Roan Shyrne vs. Kento Marek, and Darth Maul(Legends) vs. Darth Nihl. Keep up the good work and MTFBWY.
The last one I think Maul would curb stomp. Not only because we're talking about the Legends version of the Zabrak here, but also because their respective equipment would play a pivotal, possibly the most crucial, role in the outcome. Nihl's long-handled saber would fare poorly against Maul's saberstaff, I think, because its length would work against his defense when faced with Maul's up close and personal speed blitz offense. In terms of physicality, Maul is also leagues above him; there's simply no question. Force-wise, eehhhh. Nihl certainly uses it much more than Maul, but I don't think it'd be sufficient enough to subdue the Zabrak.
Kun takes it narrowly, Saba by a moderate degree, Malak as well. Then Zayne, Roan, and Maul all take rather substantial victories. That's a great selection, especially Shryne v. Marek and Sebatyne v. Rancisis--definitely unique pieces I'd love to see.
+JediAcolyte22 Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun is a match Ive been thinking about for a long time and made a verdict. Krayt in a asspull, Saba, Malak, Zayne, Roan, Maul.
Darth Wyyrlok vs Darth Malak is an interesting fight. My chips are on Wyyrlok though, he's got all the tools he needs to defeat Malak. Good fight though
4 years late but to answer your question, physical strength would be most important when the lightsabers are touching and pushing against each other. Leveraging etc. You also need to be strong in order to block hard swings coming in from the opponent without having your own weapon pushed back into your face
+ Jensaarai1 I feel in this video you minimize Yoda's speed and mobility advantage against Vader, while exaggerate Vader's strength advantage to some degree. With that being said, I really did enjoy a lot of the things you brought up in the video (example: how Yoda's style was the Jedi prototype, and how Vader's style materialized to specifically combat the prototypical Jedi). I think all the fans of your channel really appreciate the effort and work you put into your videos. Although I disagree with the verdict-- great video!
this was a very good examination of both Vader and Yoda, there is no anger in your voice, and you gave Yoda credit where it's due, which is good, but at the same time, this is one confrontation that is highly debatable in my opinion simply because of how Vader has dealt with similary agile opponents.
Very well done. I don't remember if I ever watched the previous video. If you're open to suggestions for future vs. series I have one that you could possibly do with another member of the Council Forcecast: Shaak Ti and Aayla Secura vs. Nomi Sunrider and Bastila Shan.
397 Llederson Do you really underestimate Vader's combat skills that much? Yes, Yoda is much faster, but with enough room to maneuver, Vader would be able to take him down.
So .... Vader beats Yoda in physical, lightsaber combat and force abilities ??? I refuse to believe Vader would beat Yoda in a 1 on 1 confrontation, and not based on fan favouritism. He matched Sidious in his encounter, and the dark lord is stronger than Vader in almost every way. Yoda would wound Vader with his lightsaber alone and then take advantage of it. It is well known Jensaarai1 doesn't like Yoda (all his videos are living proof of it) and he is constantly diminishing what he is capable of. But hey .... everyone is entitled of their opinion
ABC logic doesnt work with these duels, that is one of the number 1 rules that all of these guys, Jen, Antoine, GreyJedi, EvanNova use. Just because someone loses to one person in battle A and another person beats that person in battle B, does not automatically indicate that Person 3 will beat Person 1 because they beat Person 2 who beat Person 1, if that makes sense? Force users in Star Wars have abilities that will be either amplified or negated depending on the specialties of the other person they are fighting. There isn't just some power bar that you have to reach in order to beat someone, that is one dimensional. You have to hone your skills to become a foil for that person.
Agreed that ABC logic doesn't work .... in MOST CASES. Yoda however is one of the best Jedi ever (top 3) and regardless if he's trained in the combative part of the Force, he is quite capable of beating almost anybody with his knowledge alone.
Aaron Mackellar no bane revan plagieis sidious and some others can beat him Vader is underrated in general but this channel overrates Vader heavily and i am pretty sure that there are others that could defrat Vader inam not saying he is weak but no not on Yoda level for sure
Eren Baran Bane vs Vader could go either way. They are both roughly equals, even Antoine admitted in his Bane vs Vader video, that the fight would be very close.
I have the greatest respect for Jensaarai’s oppionins in 99% of all possible match ups, but this is the one exception. Vader win the physical contest 10 out of 10 times, but with a lightsaber, Yoda is the fucking avatar of speed; Mace Windu used Vaapad and Sidious is a darkside God, and they was so fast, that reality warped around their fight, Yoda matched and arguably surpassed Sidious’s speed in their duel, and Speed is Yodas top attribute. Vader is hampered in his mobility and Yoda comes up to his knee, so Yoda would blitz though Vader’s defenses. You say Vader can tank the hits? True, but a hit could lower his output, thus making Yodas speed-advantaged even more game-breaking. A form 3 style defense is the best way to beat Yoda, but Vader is not Obi-wan, and can’t bent and move his body that fast even in a tight defense! And as for force use? Draw, as Yoda is only defensive in his use, but Vader has no chance of breaking or undermining him. You need Sidious-levels of force power and a creative application of them to beat Yoda, and Vader only have the creativity part down. Vader would die by a thousand lightsaber cuts from the grandmaster!
I'm seeing mostly arguments for why Yoda couldn't beat Sidious here. Vader is not even on the same tier. Sidious is both much much faster, stronger in force and physical strength(or maybe physical force?). Yoda matched Sidious and gave him a run for his money. Vader would put up a fight and while he might match Yoda's strength he has nothing on Yoda's speed. Vader is indeed capable of short bursts of speed but it is this which would be he his undoing as he then would tread on very familiar grounds(one could even say high grounds) for Yoda. I do not even see this fight becoming a force battle. It would be over quick. Vader might even be lulled into a false sense of security when seeing the familiar form then utterly overwhelmed, falling to a barrage of cuts from Yoda's lightsaber. Yoda might be text book but like Bruce Lee said, "I fear not the man who has practiced 10000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10000 times."
mareczek00713 He went in to exile as a sign of failure for not defeating Sidious. At this point he thought Obi-Wan had killed him. He believed that the Force would balance itself eventually which it did due to Luke and Anakin.
+397 Llederson I'm waiting until the 3v3 team battle the Forcecast is doing comes out. Knowing them, there will probably be even more I need to address which may turn it into: "How powerful is Anakin Skywalker?"
TheNuisanceBird Cool thanks for replying i have seen your videos i really like them also one thing i didn't understand is why didn't he adress Yoda's speed advantage further? Have any ideas? Because i am not bashing him i respect his opinion but how does Vader keep up?
By the way +Jensarrai, that suggestion from a Council Forcecast episode Kas'im vs Kao Cen Darach, have you gotten around to making that? I'd really like to see you take them on in one of your videos, especially since your editing and arguments have improved so much now.
I apologize if this is a bit sudden, but do you think you do a video of Anakin vs Maul? In my opinion, they were both skilled lightsaber duelists who used the Force as a supplement. I'm curious to see how a fight between these two would turn out.
I think this is a fair assessment. I think it stands to reason that Vader, being the Empire's primary Jedi hunter and knowing Yoda had survived his encounter with Sidious, expected to one day fight Yoda. That fight, likely in Vader's mind, would have been his greatest challenge as a Sith. As such, much of his skillset and tactics would have been developed with that confrontation in mind. Since every Jedi emulated Yoda to some degree, doing so would have been efficient. Meanwhile, Yoda's last experience of Vader would have been Anakin, who fought aggressively and used none of the tactics and cunning that Vader developped. As such a confrontation between the both, even in a neutral setting with no preparation allowed, would still leave Vader far more prepared and ready for the duel than Yoda. It stands to reason that Vader would win it. Yoda might be the better force user and master, but Vader was quite literally built for this confrontation and his skillset as a force user are singularly designed to undermind Yoda.
Yoda wouldn’t find himself on the defensive. Way too fast for Vader. So, can Vader endure Yoda’s speed? I think not. This duel wouldn’t last long. Yoda FTW.
I presume you watched Antoine's excellent rebuttal of this godawful video. I know he asked viewers of it to not be nasty towards you or anything, but (a)I don't know if you'd care all that much if they were, and (b)this bias against Yoda needs to end. Have problems with the character all you want, but stop shitting on his abilities. This video is filled with denial of feats, ignoring or downplaying others, comparisons that make no sense, quoting sources that simultaneously contain information that contradicts your claims, and "because I said so" justifications. To put it simply, as you are, you are not qualified to do a versus video with Yoda in it, because you don't understand (or refuse to understand) his abilities and weaknesses as well as Antoine does. But then again, I've said this sort of thing before when I reviewed your collaboration video with Evan, the Plagueis/Kenobi video: I watch YOUR videos purely for entertainment, and I watch Antoine's for accuracy and proper analysis. As far as entertainment goes, the problems I listed above cause this video to be utter failure in that department. Bottom line: you and Antoine, and maybe the others, really need to have a serious chat about Yoda in order to disassemble this wall of denial you've built and keep hiding behind. Or you need to stop using him altogether in your videos.
This is biased towards Anakin, in physicality fine there are no problems, in duels however they are equals because Yoda's speed is something Anakin(especially in his suit)cannot match as Yoda has been said to be quicker than Darth Sidious disarming him in their duel in ROTS so no his redirection tactics are useless against a being like Yoda because he can avoid it without ever being seen by his enemy, and your reasoning for the force powers segment is plain wrong as Anakin has been said to never reach his true potential at either side of the force because of his bad teaching and habits as a Jedi and his Sith powers were limited psychologically as well as physically because of his own mental baggage in effect crippling his full powers whereas Yoda has not only contended with but bested Sidious's defences and against Anakin he should have no issues doing this because of his overwhelming speed and power advantage eventually forcing Anakin into a force arm wrestle which we all know Yoda would win and then he sweeps in for the kill.
Yoda not being capable of killing either of the sith lords, let alone together in a worse case sanario was the reason he went into hiding to begin with, that and all other jedi who could were either dead or incapable of handling Sidious
Have I mistaken Vader's age? I thought he was 23 in ROTS + 19yrs to make 42 in ANH + 3yrs to make 45 in TESB + 1 yr to make 46 in ROTJ. Did I make a mistake somewhere?
Lol no. What are you on about. How is Vader going to deal with Yoda's speed when Starkiller could strike Vader down without applying flank subversion? Come on now, this fight is a massacre in Yoda's favour.
I'll be blunt. Yoda is definitely fast enough and powerful enough in the Force to stagger and hit Vader in the early fight. I think that Vader's armor and endurance is far too overrated. The first and early alpha strike of Yoda would, in my opinion, immediately cut Vader down. I find Vader's defenses are what determine the overall outcome that people decide the victor. Additionally, I don't think Vader has proven himself fast enough to not be hit enough in the fight to not suffer significant battle damage, as shown when he fights adepts who are strong in the Force. It all comes down to defense. And Vader may have it in spades, especially given a conservative style, but even that it isn't enough for to combat blinding speed. His conservative nature means that he wouldn't be able to contend with Yoda at the outset of the duel, and that early advantage means death against someone as utterly powerful as Yoda.
Jensaarai is known for being a Yoda hater. Yes, this video was by far better than the old one. He gave Yoda at least some deserved credit. However I think he drastically overrates Vader every single time. Yes, he is physically superior, he is the more versatile fighter who has compensated for his weaknesses and his force abilities may be more precise. But he ignores everything what stands against Vader. He says that Vader struggled against many speedy fighters (especially Ataru users) but he ignores it by telling us that Vader's style is optimized against such fighting styles. So why does he struggle against them? And why should he hold his ground against an opponent who is much more powerful than these who gave him problems (I will not count all of his losses against much inferior fighters as Vader needed some time to redevelop his skill but some of them are still important)? Probably Vader is better than Yoda in most categories on paper (except force abilities where I would declare them at least equal when you think that Vader is more effective in using his force abilities). But as a complete package Yoda's power level makes up for this. It's laughable to think that Vader would shrug off Yoda's hits and continue fighting like nothing has ever happened. His suit doesn't make him invincible. Even Luke managed to break Vader's momentum for a moment when he hit him in Ep. V. Even in the best case for Vader - a hit like Luke did - this would be enough for Yoda to land another devastating hit. Even when you think Vader is better on a technical level - which I did here to make this less one-sided - Yoda is by no doubt more powerful which easily compensates for Vader's technical advantage. Antoine Bandele figured out every flaw in this video.
disagree...vader would be able to take at least one non lethal hit, but yea, yoda would own vader in the end, even though vader would imo honestly hold him off for a long time using everything he has.
If Yoda couldn't break him near immediately he would never break him....on top of that Vader knows Yodas skill set and preferred fighting style down to a literal classroom science... Yoda has no such likewise knowledge since Vader inarguably retooled his entire repertoire... Yoda relied heavily on launching into the offensive...Vader relied heavily on coaxing opponents into doing just that.... A lot of people think his speed and dexterity would immediately outmatch Vader but Vader is not stripped of basic strategy during a hypothetical fight...he is hypothetically equipped with his knowledge, memory, and strategic mind....which dictates quite basically that he should not allow Yoda to attain close proximity.... until of course he has tired him out sufficiently to no longer require the distance... I honestly feel like there is no debate as to whether Vader would win...it would merely be a question of how much damage he would take.... Vader vs Young Yoda though.....Vader wouldn't stand a chance.
To the actual original poster of this comment thread...your conclusion is based entirely upon Vader ALLOWING Yoda to directly assault him at the outset of a battle....which is incredibly unlikely unless Yoda started the battle with a surprise attack... namely by having Vader not know a battle was going to start at all until it did....which doesn't hold well for a hypothetical duel where combatants have actual knowledge that they are engaged in a duel........if he has knowledge that he is about to fight freaking Yoda, his strategy would compensate..... Yoda doesn't compensate as well...and because of that, if he were to use his basic strategy of overwhelming acrobatic combat at all, (which is supposedly the nail in the coffin for Vader according to those whom think Yoda would win...so people are already assuming he would)...that predictability coupled with the exhausting nature of the strategy would leave him drained and exhausted by relatively simple yet force strengthened techniques of distancing....
Rob George Yeah. I'm not too sure how many of the council's VS videos I disagree with, mostly because they're my main source of knowledge for the EU, so as long as their arguments make sense, I'll most likely agree or believe them.
+Tanner Lowrie The Council offers a perspective different then mine often, Usually I know enough about 90% of matchups and always think who wins. As I watch, I love to see how vs video people either agree of disagree with my thoughts. Don't always agree with them of course (Revan could beat Yoda).
Jesus man , get to the point. It seems you really play down yoda's abilities. Think about this. Yoda has been at it for 800 years. Vader 44 years. I love Vader as well but let's be honest. Yoda would tear his ass up quick. You went way to far into it. There's so many vs videos. I think you got bored and redid this and changed the out come. Yoda tied Sideous.so are you telling me Vader could beat him as well? To me it seems like yoda's abilities are always played down in all of the VS series. So that's my opinion like it or not. 😂
LMAO, this video. You do realise Yoda has been confirmed to be top 3 in the prequel trilogy interms of lightsaber combat by Gillard(guy who made the) lightsaber duels in the prequels, via the fact that he ranked him as a 9. Then there's also the fact that he outfought Dooku,one of the most skilled lightsaber combatants ever on 2 different occasions and stalemated Darth Sidious, another 9 and subsequently top 3 duelist. You can't go around claiming Yoda isn't good with a Saber on the battlefield when he has several canonical statements that dissaprove this. "When Yoda took out his lightsaber, he was as masterful with it as without". Stop spreading misinformation tgat has been canonically dissaproved several times.
Hit Mightiest of Men Fully agree, Yoda took the heads off of two clone troopers without even blinking, can duel Sidious and repel force lightning, which Vader can't do.
He isn't saying Yoda's not good, he said that apart from Sidous, no one has been able to capitalize on his weaknesses. Vader is simply a better swordsmen, he has more at his disposal and has more life and death experience to pull from, all of them were against Yoda's students . I think Vader vs Asoka is good example of what would happen. Vader can counter Yoda's initial attack with some defensive work, counter Yoda's acrobatics with wide sweeps of his blade forcing him back. Then crush or subvert Yoda's defenses all the while wearing him down.
I think you have to keep in mind that Yoda's speed isn't a that big of a trump card. Doku, I hope I spelled his name right, was able to contend with it, and when you compare Yoda's speed from the clone wars to adult Asoka there isn't that huge of a gape. Plus Asoka makes up for the lack speed with two light sabers of proper length. Yoda is still better but the fight stile and overall threat is very comparable. In short Yoda's speed from the movies and the cartoons, doesn't seem to be anything Vader can't handle base on his fight with Asoka.
I don't know, Vader is a super unorthodox fighter. He adapts for the opponent where as Yoda sticks with tried and true. I also believe he has a greater command of the force, best shown in AotC, RotS, and ESB when Yoda was repeatedly shown to require great amount of focus to summon enough energy to utilize telekinesis. In the two cases that apply, had to holster his lightsaber first. It wouldn't be an easy fight for Vader but I think he takes it.
I like the improvements you made to this video. While most of the edges went to vader as expected, it didnt feel like you were bashing yoda a majority of the time.
Alright, i believe that you are an analytical GENIUS. I am and have been a HUGE fan of yours, and i would love to collaborate on a video with you. Please reply to this comment in response to my request.
Darth Malgus vs Swtor Lord Socurge. Also, Wookiepedia says that Vaders gauntlet has essentially a magnet to his light saber and is a mandalorian gauntlet.
Macattack 1 honestly Revan would probably identify Malak would need help and help him defeat Vader that being said against Sidious Malak would fall shortly and after an amazing show of force powers Revan would fall as well Sidious is too strong
If I have to guess I'd say that Sidious would curb stomp either of them. Malak v Vader might see a Vader victory though a Revan v Vader duel is a little more up in the air for more than just the obvious reasons.
Elitrio2 "Malak vs Vader might see a Vader victory". Lol no, Vader destroys him definately. Revan vs Vader, however Revan most likely wins. Darth Revan (pre KOTOR) would definately lose though.
I see how Vader gets the physical edge, but Yoda should have gotten the edge in the Force section of the video; and as for their dueling abilities it could honestly go either way.
@@nxzavian oh please. In order for Vader to leverage his endurance, he would need to be able to content with Yoda's speed which he can't. If starkiller can leverage his speed against Vader, so can Yoda. This is simply a matter of common sense
"I've been looking forward to this"-Count Dooku.
Rob George "Im too drunk to tatse this chicken." Colonel Sanders
+Zack Now I wish I had some Bourbon Whisky while watching this. All I had was some tea.
Dooku sounds like poop
Master Jensaarai has returned from his odyssey. He has come with tidings of newest duel.
I have robot chicken Vader burned into my head.
"Because of shits like you, Garry doesn't get to see his daughter!"
MaestroKenobi oh my god 😂😂😂
My response to this would be too long for RUclips-comment-reading-consumption.
I feel the rage in you Antoine and all the comic vine folks! Haha
No rage from me, can't say the same for Viners. I just have my issues.
Antoine Bandele would you consider doing a Revan VS Anakin matchup?
Antoine Bandele
I concur.
So what I'm hearing is: response video?
Time Stamps
4:36: Physical Capabilities (Darth Vader)
7:46: Physical Capabilities (Yoda)
10:33: Physical Capabilities (Verdict)
12:37: Lightsaber Combat (Darth Vader)
17:44: Lightsaber Combat (Yoda)
22:57: Lightsaber Combat (Verdict)
27:43: Force Abilities (Darth Vader)
35:05: Force Abilities (Yoda)
42:50: Force Abilities (Verdict)
46:46: Final Verdict
I agree that Darth Sidious completely outclassed Lord Vader in terms of raw power in the force, but I believe Vader could beat Sidious in a lightsaber duel.
Asad Connor I agree
Sidious in legends is a master duelist surpassing Tulak Hord and Exar Kun. In my opinion he is the more superior duelist
Sidious mastered all 7 lightsaber forms, what are you talking about?
@@mr.ditkovich6379 so did vader and even sidious outright admit that vader is a better swordman
@@jessiezhang8311 if mace windu can beat palpatine in lightsaber combat then I think Anakin can as well
For me, this whole match is decided on whether or not Vader could survive Yoda until he either tired the old master out or managed to get a good hit in, one likely preceding the other. And I can see Vader surviving Yoda's onslaught of Lightsaber attacks, either through his defence or his mechanical body keeping him alive until the time was right to retaliate.
To me, this dynamic is parallel with the hypothetical match-up of Muhammad Ali vs Mike Tyson. Yoda/Tyson, would come out with an absolute avalanche of blows and strikes, which Vader/Ali, would do everything they can to survive to wait until the later stages of the fight. And then, Vader/Ali, would still have the stamina to put up a fight by the end of it all, while Yoda/Tyson, would be tired after spending all his energy on the blitzkrieg right at the start.
If Vader/Ali made even a single mistake, then they'd be gone. If they took Yoda/Tyson anything less than seriously, they'd be done. But if they played it right and held on, then they'd be able to take Yoda/Tyson out as they struggled to even stay in the fight.
That's how I see it.
Yoda can disengage as he did with Sidious. If Vader wants the kill he has to come after him and thus expose himself.
@@mansteinator True, but Vader doesn't have to physically chase Yoda, he can launch a barrage of objects at the Jedi Master, similar to what Palpatine did with the Senate Pods. The key thing with that is I doubt Vader would let up like Sidious did, he clearly let himself enjoy the spectacle too much and let up his assault, something I don't see Vader doing.
I highly doubt Vader would throw his Lightsaber at Yoda, because if he did then he'd be without a Lightsaber and within the time it'd take to get it back, Yoda could probably close the distance depending on how far away he is. If Vader took Yoda extremely seriously like he did with Old Ben Kenobi, Vader isn't falling into any trap that Yoda tries to lure him into.
Ultimately, if Yoda disengages and tries to flee or performs a tactical retreat of any sort, Vader would not rush in to meet the much faster Jedi, I can easily see Vader letting Yoda run than try to chase him down. With that, Vader would win, not through killing Yoda, but by forcing him to quit the fight. Vader still wins.
@@darkarpatron i dont think vader has a great range of movement due to his heavy robot body so yoda can leap into a blind spot or slide between vaders legs and cut himoff at the kneecaps
@@theatricult That's definitely a possibility, and Vader would be stupid to disregard it.
Vader may not have a great range of movement, but so long as he knows where Yoda _might_ try to hit him from, he can, to some degree, predict from what angle Yoda is gonna come from.
Again, if Vader, with his cybernetic augmentations can survive and outlast Yoda, who has been shown to tire easily and quickly, I think that is Vader's best chance at victory against the Jedi Grand Master.
I do not see Vader successfully breaking Yoda's guard or catching him mid-kata, certainly not straight away, but the longer the fight goes on, the more tired Yoda gets, and if Vader has done a good enough job surviving the short green lightsaber blitz, he'll have a chance in the late fight, and Vader has proven multiple times to outlast an opponent.
Unlike Galen Marek, Yoda can't/won't use the force against Vader because of his disinclination, unlike Luke Skywalker, Yoda can't bring the strength needed to overpower Vader. What Yoda has against Vader is blinding speed, and that's it. Now if Vader slips up or doesn't take it seriously, he's gone. But if he keeps calm, does things right and takes it seriously, I think he's got what it takes to survive, and either force Yoda into a retreat or score a lethal blow to the tired Jedi. Though I will point out that the latter sounds unlikely, even to me.
Basically, Vader survives and wins, or else he's cut down within the first bout. The former is what I believe is most likely.
@@darkarpatron thats fair though id argue yoda and vader are comparable in the force since anakin never reaches his potential and while i cant see him evading all of yodas strikes hes almost certainly getting hit with a glancing blow vaders armor is saber resistant so yoda needs to land a killing blow to outright win which i could see him doing if he focused his mind towards it but its more that yoda doesnt have the will to fight longer cause that would require investment and investments just another name for attachment
I'd love it if Jensaarai started to include more obscure characters, like some before....
Truth is, they would love to do them! The only problem is there is usually not enough information presented to give a fair accurate assessment to declare a winner. They do not want to do guess work and give a half ass result. It would not be a good testament to there work.
Possibilities are far from exhausted!
If he could do Jerec, Maw, & Boc, he could do Sariss too.
Paratus -> Maris Brood, Desolous
...
Desann!
Nihilus! (with a foe just right)
Arcann!
Kyp Durron!
Kas'im!
Zez-Kai Ell!
Kharys!
etc...
@@rudolphantler6309 Heh, now that he got Jerec, Maw and Boc covered, Sariss could be next, or Desann and Kas'im.
Palpatine himself told Vader imagine what Yoda would have done to you if he had showed up to Mustafar instead of Obi-Wan. Even Vaders master thought that Yoda would have killed him.
Rots Vader…. Suit vader is a different animal entirely
@@rx7enjoyer240not here
@@treblazer you are mistaken
@@rx7enjoyer240Pre-suit Vader would have smoked Yoda kid. What are you even talking about. George Lucas SAID HIMSELF he would’ve killed Sidious. That had he just kept a clear head and dispatched Kenobi on Mustafar, he THEN would have went and killed Sidious. Sidious himself literally ADMITS to Vader that he had surpassed him. That he was his superior.
“You have done well, my new apprentice. Do you feel your power growing?”
“Yes, my master.”
Lord Vader, your skills are *unmatched* by *any* Sith before you. Go now, and bring peace to The Empire.”
That’s including HIMSELF. That is a direct quote/line from the ROTS film novelization-DIRECTLY edited BY Lucas himself. Which ALSO goes on to make very clear that Vader would have killed Sidious had Mustafar not happened.
“He already had the measure of his new master. Soon, their relationship would undergo a sudden . . . Transformation.”
Period…. Matthew Stover, the writer of said ROTS novelization directly stated: “Everything in it was there because Mr. Lucas wanted it there. Everything removed was because Mr. Lucas wanted it gone.” Period. There IS NO getting around that. Your opinion is irrelevant; Pre-suited Vader would smoke the suited Vader without any sort of debate. He was literally 40% stronger than the suited Vader ever was directly according to Lucas himself like he stated it clear as day…. He was SUPPOSED to originally be the one to fight and kill Windu. Lucas originally WROTE it that way. Where do you think The videogame adaption GETS that from???? Directly from Lucas himself; it was based off of the original screenplay, it began development before Lucas ever changed the script late in production. It was literally made AT Skywalker ranch alongside Lucas himself and the film creative team, along with every other ROTS project/adaption, to make sure they all aligned as best as possible. Lucas was heavily involved with all of them. You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.
@@dazdavis7896 simply not the case in current canon Lucas has little control over it anymore. Also for the examples you listed would you be so kinda as to provide sources?
Your light saber and fighting breakdowns are the absolute best on RUclips keep up the great work!!!
I think Yoda has the ability to get into Vader’s more conservative guard to get at his cybernetics. Yoda would have only one shot at it, just like Luke had one shot with the 1st Death Star. Do or die or in his case do not.
If Yoda fails....Vader beats him, however if Yoda gets beyond Vader’s conservative style protecting his chest piece..It will be a quick death at Yoda’s hand.
I love the effort you put into revising the old video. I've been waiting for this for awhile.
39:55 The only reason that Yoda was one the worse end, was because A. he stood on the edge of the platform, while Sidious stood in the middle behind the protective barrier, and B. because he was much lighter. Sidious couldn't overpower him with lightning, which was very clearly visible by the end.
I stand by my statement of you being pretty biased and misinformed on this one. You seem to low-ball Yoda almost every time you talk about him.
Well, you are left with 2 options here: either Yoda was incapable or incompetent. If he was outmatched by skill/strength in the force, he was incapable. If he was beaten by poor footing/tactics, he was incompetent. A loss is still a loss, and those are the main two reasons. The only alternative is he allowed Sidious to believe that he had the upper hand, but this is usually done inorder to lull the opponent into a false sense of security, to finish them off. Since Yoda ran afterward, we can rule that explanation out.
He gave him the edge over Satele Shan and Darth Malak
Sam Boorstin but they are quite clear wins for Yoda
Sidious also can keep up with Yoda in terms of speed and force powers. Vader can't really do either.
Vader is better than Yoda in technical lightsaber skills. But his bulky build means he just can't move fast enough.
I understand where you're coming from, but no, Vader is not superior to Yoda as a force user and would definitely not be the victor here. First of all, Vader has been stated to be AT MOST 80% of Sidious' power level, given the range of anywhere from 70-80%. Yoda, on the other hand, is a near equal to Sidious in power, by my estimate and I'm sure others saying that he is about 95% of Sidious' power (this is shown in his contention with Sidious, never being outright overpowered by him, even stalemating him in some instances). Right off the bat, this is a huge disparity. I'm not saying that Vader couldn't compete with Yoda, he most likely could for a short while, however, Vader would definitely fall to him in terms of force powers similarly to the way Obi-Wan fell to Dooku in their final duel on the Invisible Hand. Obi-Wan and Dooku have a similar power disparity to Vader and Yoda based on both of the characters' respective magnitude of abilities. While Obi-Wan can cope with a full force assault from Dooku when actively defending, when he is caught off guard or not employing an active defense, he is overpowered and incapacitated. The same principle applies to Vader and Yoda. I'm not saying that Vader isn't superior in his application of the force, in fact, I believe he is definitely more tactical than Yoda with his use of it; however, Yoda is just too powerful for Vader to handle.
You are correct in stating that Vader's style works perfectly against textbook lightsaber duelists LIKE Yoda. What you did not account for is that being similar to Yoda in terms of a fighting style and actually being Yoda are completely different things. When concerning Yoda's stature, his application of Ataru is the best possible fighting style for him due to the fact that he can't apply advantages of other styles. Yoda knows this and tries to make Ataru as efficient as possible while still being effective, using the basic su ma rotations to a fantastic effect. He effectively removes his height from being a problem in this regard, not relying on reach, but, rather, vertical positioning. He bolsters his application with his immense power in the force and becomes a martial hurricane, flinging himself at opponents with speed impossible to track with the naked eye, performing whichever rotation he has to to quickly cut his opponent down before he tires himself out. Vader is not equipped to take out someone this quick. You've said it yourself- Vader is slowed by his cumbersome armor. His defensive showings are impressive but not impressive enough to defeat the best duelist in the Jedi Order at the time, most likely even the era. He can contend on a technical level, but cannot compete with Yoda's speed for long.
I see this fight ending in one of two ways. Either, Yoda just straight-up out fences Vader without any telekinetic abilities, pressuring him until he can't compete. Or, the more likely scenario, Yoda harasses Vader and blasts him telekinetically; while being assaulted by Yoda, he would not have enough focus or time to gather an active defense against the sheer might of Yoda. Vader would be incapacitated and cut down. Your assessment of Yoda is fine, possibly slightly biased against him. The problem with the analysis is your assessment of Vader; you rate him far too highly compared to the competition. Definitely an improvement over the original, but still low balling Yoda in comparison to Vader.
ThePersoner11 vader is a superior combative force user. Theres a difference.
Vader may be tactically superior in his approach, but Yoda is intelligent too. His greater strength and array of powers at his disposal is, overall, superior to Vader. All Vader has is a better tactical mindset. This does not make Yoda any less powerful or knowledgeable of the force.
ThePersoner11 not arguing yoda doesnt have bigger muscles and a diploma, jensarrai is saying vader has the will to kill. Hes got the eye of the tiger. He wants, loves, needs to fight and kill. Yoda is more powerful, but not by as much as most people feel. But vader is ruthless and not pulling any punches. Yoda would try to win, vader would just want to kill him. I respect the heck out of yoda, and vader isnt even my fav sith, but its like those vids you see all the time of guys who are trained superior physical specimsns getting rocked by "inferior" dudes that fight better.
Bendu Lightsaber Combat couldn't of said it better myself. Alpha Predator vs the Alpha Prey, the prey fights to survive. The predator fights to kill.
"slightly biased" against Yoda? understatement of the year
I still cannot believe i have watched this channel for five years keep up the work man! Great videos!
Great video good sir
Huge fan and love your videos
I don't care what anyone says
You know your stuff and you put your hard work into these videos and give us something great
Keep up the great work and I can't wait to see your next video
:)
YEEEAAAHHH!!! Waited so long for this one! Thanks for all the hard work you put into your versus over the past years, keep em' coming!
Nice use of the quote. Gives us insight into Anakin's opinion of Yoda's fighting abilities. This firsthand knowledge would give Vader the advantage.
I love these Versus reduxes. They make much more sense than the originals.
I've been waiting for this for so long! cant wait to watch
I've been a fan of your channel for years, good to see you're still kicking
Yoda is officially the only Muppet I know who stands a chance against Darth Vader.
I find your lack of faith in Miss Piggy disturbing.
Vader would do great against Miss Piggy..... just as long as he never makes any comment about "bacon" or anything to that effect.
+sonic8005 Statler and Waldorf stomp. Vader cant defeat the gods of Internet trolls.
Rob George Not true. Gonzo beat them once in a motorcycle stunt that um, did not go so well for them
+sonic8005 lol, totally forgot about that.
I just need to say that it seems alot of people think that because Yoda was said to be the greatest jedi of his era, that he is the greatest combatant. Don't get me wrong, on the battlefield he's capable of a great deal but Yoda being the best jedi =/= being the best combatant. He was a great jedi because of his wisdom, adherence to jedi philosophy, and his effectiveness as an instructor. The entire point of the opening narration was to get the viewer to question their preconceptions about Yoda. It takes more than just mastery to be considered a great combatant. It also takes application. What's the point of Yoda being a master of Djem So if his short stature and frail frame prevent him from ever applying it in actual combat situations? Mastery and application are equally important.
VSX0021OmegaGundam But he also has been stated that he is strongest light side user that dark side or Sidious has ever known so he is extremely powerful
"Yoda being the best jedi =/= being the best combatant" Thank you so much because people do not seem to understand this at all.
Rob George But he has been stated to be unmatched in the council
+397 Llederson Prime Vader and Yoda are from 2 different eras. Sure Yoda is unmatched when compared to other council masters (though I still say in pure lightsaber combat Kenobi can stone wall him), but what about Sidious?
Vader not only had more raw force ability, he also had an easier time calling it forth. Yoda was capable of great feats with the force....with enough concentration. He had to disengage from Dooku to save Anakin and Kenobi(Not sure why Dooku didn't just kill him once Yoda turned his back to him), and he had to holster his lightsaber to counter Sidious. Not only that he is shown to be very exhausted after calling on the force. When a character says Yoda was the strongest jedi, ask yourself what they define strength as and what they're comparing it to. Im not saying he wasn't powerful but there are too many factors that determine a victor in live combat. Based on raw power alone Kenobi should've lost on Mustafar, but he didn't.
The producers of Star Wars need definitive stats.
Oscar Pearson Those guys are more focus on "creative fredoom" aka trow what ever that sound cool to the window to sale its product.
Brilliant video once again.
Your knowledge of lightsaber combat is astounding as ever.
I seriously need to practice my skills outside.
Looking forward to your next vids.
Again thanks for the vid mate. :-)
The video was somewhat entertaining, but the bias against Yoda is a clear as day, and the verdict is baffling to say the least.
Another comment in your conclusion. Apparently being an Ataru master is exactly what Vader is tooled to go up against. Yeah? You could say the same about Dooku. He knew every weakness of the Ataru form, yet ran from Yoda after a couple of minutes of lightsaber fighting. That doesn't mean nothing when we get to the top tiers of dueling.
lmao..Dooku could kill all 3 of them if he wanted. he just went on escape route after disarming Yoda. fun and games for the old makashi master
This was definitely more tweaked than the first video. And I think your assessment of both combatants was fair.
99thJediWarrior No it really wasn't
Back up your argument.
Watchface Yoda's speed was heavely low balled as if it wasn't enought to blitz Vader since he competed with Palpatine someone who blitzed Jedi masters and his power is enough to destroy Vader
3 problems.
1) Yoda must travel far more distance to enter lethal range with his Lightsaber. A problem he attempts to circumvent with acrobatics
2) By using acrobatics he telegraphs his actions. He cannot change direction mid air.
3) Palpaine killed Tiin and Kolar through trickery, not speed.
Tiin through trickery, Kolar was caught off guard when Tiin died.
So I have a question. If this fight theoretically happened in proximity to the kyber crystal or the myr talisman and Vader used his ability of Kynotite would Yoda's use of tutamenus block it?
i agree with this.
if Yoda was say 400 years younger and had more stamina and a greater connection with the force, this could have been different.
This is definitely an improvement. Well done!
For critique, I agree with the evidence for most of these, but you seem to be ignoring a few instances that speak on the contrary so I will address them and add my own interpretations.
For Vader,
I don't see why in the force abilities category you said that Yoda would win a direct engagement in the Force. In my opinion, they are far closer if not on par. In AOTC we see Yoda and Dooku matched in a telekinetic contest and I don't see any reason to say that Dooku is greater than Vader in this area. I do think it's evident that Yoda improved over the course of the war, but not to a degree that he would completely outclass Dooku. In terms of power, Yoda's dragging the separatist drop ships is by far the most impressive showing power-wise. But I don't see this as anything above what Vader can do considering Vader was able to rip albeit smaller ships out of the sky. I believe this is counteracted by the overall weight distribution of the drop ship (see the visual guide and cross sections for detail) meaning that I believe their respective showings to be on par. And everywhere else, Vader has been shown to be able to perform comparable telekinetic attacks.
You say that Yoda is in effect the biggest threat around and that Vader has fought many comparable opponents, however, I see this as an unfair comparison. How many opponents has Vader fought that we can honestly say is able to hold their own and stand a legit chance of beating Vader? The only ones I can think of are Galen, Starkiller, and the Darth Maul clone. Even Kenobi, SHen Jon, Ahsoka (I know you also like to use the classic EU but I still reference Disney for info), and Kuro were all manageable threats. And any other Jedi was usually a complete joke. Yoda on the other hand fought Dooku, Palpatine, and the Bpfasshi dark jedi master (although he likely didn't engage him in lightsaber combat) who are all on par if not greater in an overall combative sense, and he has experience stomping joke opponents as well such as Ventress and the Bpfasshi.
For Yoda,
From the beginning I would like to say that I see Yoda's capitalization on speed and power over sustainability as a strength. As pointed out, he needs Ataru's reach and mobility and if he were to sacrifice that for a more sustainable fighting style he would still be moving around a lot and wearing himself out while getting less done.
You also paint him as purely a wreaking ball which I see as incorrect. Strategy, circumventing enemies and evasion factors strongly into his fighting style as evident in the short story Duel, the microseries, and TCW (as much as we both hate it, it is still EU).
Going off of this in regards to lightsaber dueling, you don't mention this or his other more nimble tactics. A good showing is against Palpatine whom he was able to disarm, which was, oddly enough, not mentioned. This is a tactic that really could be effective against Vader who was disarmed by Kuro and Luke.
You also do not consider the possibility of Yoda using telekinetic attacks by taking advantage of lapses like Marek did. This is good for the most part as Yoda usually only uses force attacks when the combat lulls, but he can do it to some effect in combat as evident in TCW when he was able to perform a force push on Palpatine while going head to head. Since Vader is rather top-heavy, this will be great at throwing him off balance.
You also seem to undervalue his overall defensive or balanced a lightsaber skills in combat as evident by the final duel with Palpatine when they were on the raised podium. There, Yoda seemed to employ a soresu-like defense and a makashi-like attack. Similarly in his duel with the illusionary Palpatine, he demonstrated a much more balanced fighting style.
The Verdict,
What I believe you have downplayed from the beginning is the overall advantage that Yoda's agility would grant him, especially against Vader. Yoda is small and fast and can flip around and to the back to strike from below and behind. Vader has shown issues with this technique against Koon, Marek, and Kuro, and Yoda takes it to the next level. I also don't understand the belief that Vader can shrug off attacks as a lightsaber strike will still do major damage as evident many times over. Your formula for Vader's victory only works if Yoda attacks from one angle with the most blunt technique possible. You mention that Vader's guard is usually only broken if you come at him from two angles, but he has shown weakness against a single opponent who many times, especially when his opponent is fast and nimble such as Marek, Koon, or Kuro.
To be fair to Yoda you really can't blame him for developing his skills the way he did. For the circumstances he lived in his skills made absolute sense.
Finally another amazing video
Awesome. Great to see you back on. Love these video. Even if disagree at times lol. But still great videos. I do agree with Yoda and on his many flaws.
Anakin Skywalker is so strong and could totally take on Yoda*, thus proving Yoda's overrated and not that strong
*Source: Anakin Skywalker
Source: George Lucas****
Nice try.
@@dazdavis7896❓❓❓❓❓❓when did he ever say that
I always loved this take on Darth Vader vs Yoda. While I think Yoda has a significant chance of getting within Vader’s guard before time runs out, I agree that Vader’s the better combative Force wielder.
The best telekinetic feats in the _Star Wars_ come from Yoda, but he takes his time to summon his power. Even the Sidious Force push looked like Yoda was gathering his energies, and that Sidious underestimated him too much to actively resist.
First off, holy fucking shit. Your orig vid is something I dearly missed when it got taken down and I wished for it to get the vader vs kun treatment. As always, thoughts after I fully watch but that post is gonna take a while. Need to fully watch 1st and I feel my critique is also going to take a while to properly write up. Thank god I still remember your orig one though.
Damn, well done. Can't disagree on a single point--and props to you for acknowledging and confronting a change of opinion, instead of just pushing it away. Very impressed by the verdict and by the rationale.
I had an idea for a ForceCast you may enjoy--calling back to what we've seen in things like Revenge of the Sith, Fate of the Jedi, SWTOR and other places, what would your thoughts be about a Kill Teams video? Take powerful figures from across the Star Wars mythos, and assemble a kill team of fighters you feel could take them on. Rules would be that you get four team members total--one of comparable power to the target, one at least one tier below, and two at least two tiers below. For example, if I wanted a kill team for Darth Malgus I'd personally bring along Darth Caedus, Shaak Ti, TCW Darth Maul and Lucien Draay--Caedus to take punishment and serve as a main antagonist, Draay to exploit small openings with substantial power to make Malgus shift his focus, and the more cerebral Ti and Maul to look for a way in and ultimately cut him down. Video could take a round-robin discussion format--each ForceCast member chooses and announces a target in advance, and the others explain their teams before having a winning team chosen by the member who announced the target.
"darth vader gets the edge as a forcewielder". You're shitting me.
Yoda 100% will defeat vader in any force contest. You showed a clip of yoda picking up like 70 battle droids at a time. If they're throwing shit at eachother, vader is definitely going to be on the defensive.
The reason yoda had to focus so much in the movie scenes is because he was lifting very heavy objects that were falling from a great height.
I agree vader is better as a lightsaber duelist in general. You seem to think vader is optimized to beat yoda, but it's the other way around. Vader's defense works well against normal human sized opponents because he relies heavily on boxing them in with foot work/ the environment and controlling their movements. He has absolutely no hope of controlling yoda's movements.... Yoda's too small and too fast. Vader has no way to attack yoda. The best case scenario for vader (outside of a lucky counterattack) is a stalemate. If he ever tries to throw a committed strike on yoda, he'll lose his head.
Mob Flork I have to agree
Absolutely incorrect, and I say this as a fan of the avatar of the light. The thing that you're missing in your assessment is that Darth Vader, like all dark siders focuses his strength and abilities towards combat whereas light siders focus on utility applications. Yes Yoda could pick up multiple items and toss them as Vader can, but while Vader does it causally, almost as an afterthought, Yoda needs to concentrate. (More) ...
... (cont'd). Yoda might be small and fast but Yoda is also advanced in age with all of the baggage that comes with it (and I'm living it, being 50 and about 80-85% of the man I was 20 years ago). He's such an insane dervish on attack because of force augmentation but that draws from his substantial but limited force reserve. All Vader needs to do is weather Yoda's offensive via Soresu and tank hits and let him burn himself out (check out Evannova's Darth Bane vs Shaak Ti as further evidence of relevance). Most importantly Yoda really didn't have the motivation to become the warrior Darth Vader was. He lived in a long stretch if time of Jedi primacy with no real obvious epic threat to compell him in that direction. A Shao Lin monk will not approach combat the same as a Mongol warrior. Again I say that as a rabid fan of the Jedi. Yoda is the better of the two, stronger in character, stronger for having been able to be so powerful ba Jedi and being able to resist the pull off the dark side, stronger for being able to draw out the best in those around him, but to ignore the fact that Vader was a better combatant is to blind yourself and underestimate your opponent. Neither are productive and both will lead you into trouble if your not careful.
Ronald Ritchie Vader has never ever reacted to someone of Yoda's speed he has moved faster than Jedi Masters could react Vader has struggled with an amped Maul,Luke,Obi-wan and Dark Woman he has never fought someone on par with Yoda who could blitz all the people i mentioned when Vader out speeds a jedi master eye sight you tell me
Ronald Ritchie Also Vader's not the best in Soresu only Obi-wan at his best has a shot to defend himself from Yoda but even then he gets slaughtered
I think Yoda takes it, but I'm so glad that finally someone has finally tackled this match up
Would it be possible to do a matchup between Satele Shan and Nomi Sunrider?
I'm not sure how much info is available on Sunrider's combative abilities, but if there is enough for her I feel as though this would be an enlightening match.
I hated you so much for your original verdict back in the day. You have explained yourself FAR better in this redux to the point that I actually agree with the outcome now. A well crafted video sir.
Though this video is very well made and to a much higher standard than your last Vader vs Yoda video i feel i disagree with the verdict for many of the same reasons.
Yes Vader has a colossal endurance edge,he has more margin for error due to his massive durability edge and Yoda isnt going to over power Vader with physical strength. But i feel you missed the most critical reason Yoda beats Vader. You mentioned Vader struggles against foes who are constantly moving around and fast. This is partly due to Vaders suit and that Djem so Vader most favoured form having poor manoeuvrability. Yoda is an ataru specialist by far the most acrobatic form and due to his height he has to turn that up to 11 and as we see against Dooku and sidious he's jumping all around them the entire time he duels them. Yoda doesn't try to overwhelm his foes with the physical strength behind his blows it's his incredibly speed and that his foes are constantly being off balanced by having to twist and turn the entire fight. If his strength was the biggest problems his opponents faced then it would have been mentioned in one of his fights with Dooku considering Makashi has a weakness against strength based attacks. Because of Yodas incredibly speed, agility and the fact he's uses both as much as possible means he's Vaders worst nightmare in a duel.
If Vader gets tagged by the likes of Maul and sha koon can tag Vader despite being far less powerful and less skilled duellist because of his weakness to fast and acrobatic duellist. I don't see how you can argue Yoda is going to have much trouble regularly hitting vader till Vader can fight no more
Dont forget he also got tagged by Luke in empire
The Knight Of Darkness well Vader was toying with Luke the entire fightm Vader could have ended the fight several times by that point if he wanted
banethesithari true I also agree. Jen overrated Vader here. He also should have given Yoda the edge for force abilities. Still he put up a damn good argument for Vader. And honestly atleast it was better then that horrific Plagueis vs Obi wan match up he did with Evan. And which I choose to forget completely.
The Knight Of Darkness yeah I didn't go into how they compare with the force because I don't think it would be much of a factor given how much Yoda prefers using a light saber.
Yeah Evan had gone really down hill the last few years hoth Vs bane was even worse imo than the plageuis Vs Obi wan.
banethesithari Have you seen Antoines counter video?
+Jensaarai1 Always a pleasure to see another video from you or the rest of council.
I still think you or the others need to do Darth Krayt vs. Exar Kun, Saba Sebatyne vs. Oppo Rancisis, Darth Wyyrlok III vs. Darth Malak, Zayne Carrick vs. Ferus Olin, Roan Shyrne vs. Kento Marek, and Darth Maul(Legends) vs. Darth Nihl. Keep up the good work and MTFBWY.
The last one I think Maul would curb stomp. Not only because we're talking about the Legends version of the Zabrak here, but also because their respective equipment would play a pivotal, possibly the most crucial, role in the outcome. Nihl's long-handled saber would fare poorly against Maul's saberstaff, I think, because its length would work against his defense when faced with Maul's up close and personal speed blitz offense. In terms of physicality, Maul is also leagues above him; there's simply no question. Force-wise, eehhhh. Nihl certainly uses it much more than Maul, but I don't think it'd be sufficient enough to subdue the Zabrak.
Kun takes it narrowly, Saba by a moderate degree, Malak as well. Then Zayne, Roan, and Maul all take rather substantial victories. That's a great selection, especially Shryne v. Marek and Sebatyne v. Rancisis--definitely unique pieces I'd love to see.
Krayte 6/10
NA
Darth Malik 6/10
Carrick6/10
Shryne 7/10
Maul 8/10
+JediAcolyte22 Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun is a match Ive been thinking about for a long time and made a verdict. Krayt in a asspull, Saba, Malak, Zayne, Roan, Maul.
Darth Wyyrlok vs Darth Malak is an interesting fight. My chips are on Wyyrlok though, he's got all the tools he needs to defeat Malak. Good fight though
Question:
What advantage does physical strength have when wielding a blade with no weight (mass) ? Thanks! Love these
4 years late but to answer your question, physical strength would be most important when the lightsabers are touching and pushing against each other. Leveraging etc. You also need to be strong in order to block hard swings coming in from the opponent without having your own weapon pushed back into your face
@@benyaffe5389 that makes sense...Lol, thanks buddy!!! Years late, but still 😎
Awesome as usual
+ Jensaarai1 I feel in this video you minimize Yoda's speed and mobility advantage against Vader, while exaggerate Vader's strength advantage to some degree. With that being said, I really did enjoy a lot of the things you brought up in the video (example: how Yoda's style was the Jedi prototype, and how Vader's style materialized to specifically combat the prototypical Jedi). I think all the fans of your channel really appreciate the effort and work you put into your videos. Although I disagree with the verdict-- great video!
Oh fuck I've been waiting for this bitch.
My F#%king Opinion I've been looking forward to this.
this was a very good examination of both Vader and Yoda, there is no anger in your voice, and you gave Yoda credit where it's due, which is good, but at the same time, this is one confrontation that is highly debatable in my opinion simply because of how Vader has dealt with similary agile opponents.
Worth the wait
I strongly disagree
Many do.
ROAD To The Top in the short term like in bursts I’m sure he can deflect a few blade swipes but in 10 seconds he’s gonna die
ROAD To The Top depends on Yodas mood 😂
ROAD To The Top Revan VS Anakin would be a good matchup
+ROAD To The Top And me. Forgive my display of pride.
Jensaarai is by far my favorite Star Wars Vs. Podcaster/Narrator.. You're assessment here is spot on, great job!!! 👍👍👍💯💯💯
Very well done. I don't remember if I ever watched the previous video.
If you're open to suggestions for future vs. series I have one that you could possibly do with another member of the Council Forcecast: Shaak Ti and Aayla Secura vs. Nomi Sunrider and Bastila Shan.
Wonderful video Jensaarai1. Welcome back.
Yoda is the better way to be, but Vader is better in combat. Exactly.
Feenix Vader is not in combat in any way
Vader is not in any way better than Yoda in combat
397 Llederson He is though. Vader is a defensive tank. Yoda's acrobatic Ataru fighting style would be ineffective.
Will Fitzsimmons But Vader would have to react that's not something he can do against someone who is faster than him slower opponents have tagged him
397 Llederson Do you really underestimate Vader's combat skills that much? Yes, Yoda is much faster, but with enough room to maneuver, Vader would be able to take him down.
So .... Vader beats Yoda in physical, lightsaber combat and force abilities ???
I refuse to believe Vader would beat Yoda in a 1 on 1 confrontation, and not based on fan favouritism. He matched Sidious in his encounter, and the dark lord is stronger than Vader in almost every way.
Yoda would wound Vader with his lightsaber alone and then take advantage of it.
It is well known Jensaarai1 doesn't like Yoda (all his videos are living proof of it) and he is constantly diminishing what he is capable of.
But hey .... everyone is entitled of their opinion
ABC logic doesnt work with these duels, that is one of the number 1 rules that all of these guys, Jen, Antoine, GreyJedi, EvanNova use. Just because someone loses to one person in battle A and another person beats that person in battle B, does not automatically indicate that Person 3 will beat Person 1 because they beat Person 2 who beat Person 1, if that makes sense? Force users in Star Wars have abilities that will be either amplified or negated depending on the specialties of the other person they are fighting. There isn't just some power bar that you have to reach in order to beat someone, that is one dimensional. You have to hone your skills to become a foil for that person.
Agreed that ABC logic doesn't work .... in MOST CASES.
Yoda however is one of the best Jedi ever (top 3) and regardless if he's trained in the combative part of the Force, he is quite capable of beating almost anybody with his knowledge alone.
Luis Alberto Rotondo but isn't Vader like in the top 3 sith?
Aaron Mackellar no bane revan plagieis sidious and some others can beat him Vader is underrated in general but this channel overrates Vader heavily and i am pretty sure that there are others that could defrat Vader inam not saying he is weak but no not on Yoda level for sure
Eren Baran Bane vs Vader could go either way. They are both roughly equals, even Antoine admitted in his Bane vs Vader video, that the fight would be very close.
When I saw this I got so excited
I much prefer this video over your current anniversary video
I have the greatest respect for Jensaarai’s oppionins in 99% of all possible match ups, but this is the one exception. Vader win the physical contest 10 out of 10 times, but with a lightsaber, Yoda is the fucking avatar of speed; Mace Windu used Vaapad and Sidious is a darkside God, and they was so fast, that reality warped around their fight, Yoda matched and arguably surpassed Sidious’s speed in their duel, and Speed is Yodas top attribute. Vader is hampered in his mobility and Yoda comes up to his knee, so Yoda would blitz though Vader’s defenses. You say Vader can tank the hits? True, but a hit could lower his output, thus making Yodas speed-advantaged even more game-breaking. A form 3 style defense is the best way to beat Yoda, but Vader is not Obi-wan, and can’t bent and move his body that fast even in a tight defense! And as for force use? Draw, as Yoda is only defensive in his use, but Vader has no chance of breaking or undermining him. You need Sidious-levels of force power and a creative application of them to beat Yoda, and Vader only have the creativity part down. Vader would die by a thousand lightsaber cuts from the grandmaster!
Vader's too slow, yoda's too fast. Theory or not Yoda can decapitate in seconds.
Mav R You underestimate Lord Vader's speed and defense. Clearly not a well informed fan.
Asad Connor When Vader keeps up with Palpatine then we can talk
Asad Connor provide proof of Vader having Yoda-level speed, please.
+Ki Adi Sandwich Vader doesn't have the movement speed, he does have the reactions though.
Rob George going by what?
Not sure i agree but great video as always Jensaarai. Thanks.
For the record, this video showed up in my feed as Versus Series Redux: Darth Vader Vs. Grandma and I think that's excellent
Razzian Grandma would stomp Vader no doubt.
^ This.
I'm seeing mostly arguments for why Yoda couldn't beat Sidious here. Vader is not even on the same tier. Sidious is both much much faster, stronger in force and physical strength(or maybe physical force?). Yoda matched Sidious and gave him a run for his money. Vader would put up a fight and while he might match Yoda's strength he has nothing on Yoda's speed. Vader is indeed capable of short bursts of speed but it is this which would be he his undoing as he then would tread on very familiar grounds(one could even say high grounds) for Yoda.
I do not even see this fight becoming a force battle. It would be over quick. Vader might even be lulled into a false sense of security when seeing the familiar form then utterly overwhelmed, falling to a barrage of cuts from Yoda's lightsaber. Yoda might be text book but like Bruce Lee said, "I fear not the man who has practiced 10000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10000 times."
Vader is 80% the power of Sidious so you are right. Lucas and Lucasfilm has pretty much confirmed this too.
That result is obvious - I mean, come on, there's a reason Yoda was hiding instead of ambushing Vader on some of his enforcer jobs...
mareczek00713 He went in to exile as a sign of failure for not defeating Sidious. At this point he thought Obi-Wan had killed him. He believed that the Force would balance itself eventually which it did due to Luke and Anakin.
+Afroman Harambe ^ What he said in a nicer way.
But yeah, Vader at first had to use the force just to walk before he got used to his suit.
TheNuisanceBird Hey when are you going to make the Anakin vs Grievous video? Just curious
+397 Llederson I'm waiting until the 3v3 team battle the Forcecast is doing comes out.
Knowing them, there will probably be even more I need to address which may turn it into: "How powerful is Anakin Skywalker?"
TheNuisanceBird Cool thanks for replying i have seen your videos i really like them also one thing i didn't understand is why didn't he adress Yoda's speed advantage further? Have any ideas? Because i am not bashing him i respect his opinion but how does Vader keep up?
I stopped everything to watch this. Been looking forward to it since I never saw the original version.
By the way +Jensarrai, that suggestion from a Council Forcecast episode Kas'im vs Kao Cen Darach, have you gotten around to making that? I'd really like to see you take them on in one of your videos, especially since your editing and arguments have improved so much now.
I apologize if this is a bit sudden, but do you think you do a video of Anakin vs Maul? In my opinion, they were both skilled lightsaber duelists who used the Force as a supplement. I'm curious to see how a fight between these two would turn out.
I think this is a fair assessment.
I think it stands to reason that Vader, being the Empire's primary Jedi hunter and knowing Yoda had survived his encounter with Sidious, expected to one day fight Yoda. That fight, likely in Vader's mind, would have been his greatest challenge as a Sith. As such, much of his skillset and tactics would have been developed with that confrontation in mind.
Since every Jedi emulated Yoda to some degree, doing so would have been efficient.
Meanwhile, Yoda's last experience of Vader would have been Anakin, who fought aggressively and used none of the tactics and cunning that Vader developped.
As such a confrontation between the both, even in a neutral setting with no preparation allowed, would still leave Vader far more prepared and ready for the duel than Yoda.
It stands to reason that Vader would win it. Yoda might be the better force user and master, but Vader was quite literally built for this confrontation and his skillset as a force user are singularly designed to undermind Yoda.
Great vid, but not buying it :)
+Jensaarai1 Was wondering what you think of the new Battlefront game coming out soon? It has a lot prequel content now
What's up Jenz!! Always good to hear from you...MTFBWY
Yoda wouldn’t find himself on the defensive. Way too fast for Vader. So, can Vader endure Yoda’s speed? I think not. This duel wouldn’t last long. Yoda FTW.
Lewis Alexander yoda wouldn't even need his lightsaber he is so good with the force
@@nxzavian And Yoda = Sidious. The fight between Yoda and Vader really is a no brainer.
Vader would be lucky to last a minute.
DB6195 FACT.
His time of surviving this duel depends on Yoda's true intent to either kill his ass or cripple and try turning him back to the light...
@@blackshogun272 Yeah pretty much. Vader is royally fucked.
The sith master Jensaarai has returned with another awesome vs Mach
Hey jensaarai do you think you can do anything with imperial knight Draco
I presume you watched Antoine's excellent rebuttal of this godawful video. I know he asked viewers of it to not be nasty towards you or anything, but (a)I don't know if you'd care all that much if they were, and (b)this bias against Yoda needs to end. Have problems with the character all you want, but stop shitting on his abilities. This video is filled with denial of feats, ignoring or downplaying others, comparisons that make no sense, quoting sources that simultaneously contain information that contradicts your claims, and "because I said so" justifications.
To put it simply, as you are, you are not qualified to do a versus video with Yoda in it, because you don't understand (or refuse to understand) his abilities and weaknesses as well as Antoine does. But then again, I've said this sort of thing before when I reviewed your collaboration video with Evan, the Plagueis/Kenobi video: I watch YOUR videos purely for entertainment, and I watch Antoine's for accuracy and proper analysis. As far as entertainment goes, the problems I listed above cause this video to be utter failure in that department.
Bottom line: you and Antoine, and maybe the others, really need to have a serious chat about Yoda in order to disassemble this wall of denial you've built and keep hiding behind. Or you need to stop using him altogether in your videos.
Jackson Rushing And you learned absolutely nothing from what Antonioni said when he told you not to attack Jen
This is biased towards Anakin, in physicality fine there are no problems, in duels however they are equals because Yoda's speed is something Anakin(especially in his suit)cannot match as Yoda has been said to be quicker than Darth Sidious disarming him in their duel in ROTS so no his redirection tactics are useless against a being like Yoda because he can avoid it without ever being seen by his enemy, and your reasoning for the force powers segment is plain wrong as Anakin has been said to never reach his true potential at either side of the force because of his bad teaching and habits as a Jedi and his Sith powers were limited psychologically as well as physically because of his own mental baggage in effect crippling his full powers whereas Yoda has not only contended with but bested Sidious's defences and against Anakin he should have no issues doing this because of his overwhelming speed and power advantage eventually forcing Anakin into a force arm wrestle which we all know Yoda would win and then he sweeps in for the kill.
Andrew Stokes It's cool everybody exposed and proved him wrong lol.
Yoda not being capable of killing either of the sith lords, let alone together in a worse case sanario was the reason he went into hiding to begin with, that and all other jedi who could were either dead or incapable of handling Sidious
Have I mistaken Vader's age? I thought he was 23 in ROTS + 19yrs to make 42 in ANH + 3yrs to make 45 in TESB + 1 yr to make 46 in ROTJ. Did I make a mistake somewhere?
Vader would Bitch Slap Yoda 👍👍👍👍👍
Lol no. What are you on about. How is Vader going to deal with Yoda's speed when Starkiller could strike Vader down without applying flank subversion?
Come on now, this fight is a massacre in Yoda's favour.
I'll be blunt. Yoda is definitely fast enough and powerful enough in the Force to stagger and hit Vader in the early fight. I think that Vader's armor and endurance is far too overrated. The first and early alpha strike of Yoda would, in my opinion, immediately cut Vader down. I find Vader's defenses are what determine the overall outcome that people decide the victor. Additionally, I don't think Vader has proven himself fast enough to not be hit enough in the fight to not suffer significant battle damage, as shown when he fights adepts who are strong in the Force.
It all comes down to defense. And Vader may have it in spades, especially given a conservative style, but even that it isn't enough for to combat blinding speed. His conservative nature means that he wouldn't be able to contend with Yoda at the outset of the duel, and that early advantage means death against someone as utterly powerful as Yoda.
Jensaarai is known for being a Yoda hater. Yes, this video was by far better than the old one. He gave Yoda at least some deserved credit. However I think he drastically overrates Vader every single time. Yes, he is physically superior, he is the more versatile fighter who has compensated for his weaknesses and his force abilities may be more precise. But he ignores everything what stands against Vader. He says that Vader struggled against many speedy fighters (especially Ataru users) but he ignores it by telling us that Vader's style is optimized against such fighting styles. So why does he struggle against them? And why should he hold his ground against an opponent who is much more powerful than these who gave him problems (I will not count all of his losses against much inferior fighters as Vader needed some time to redevelop his skill but some of them are still important)?
Probably Vader is better than Yoda in most categories on paper (except force abilities where I would declare them at least equal when you think that Vader is more effective in using his force abilities). But as a complete package Yoda's power level makes up for this. It's laughable to think that Vader would shrug off Yoda's hits and continue fighting like nothing has ever happened. His suit doesn't make him invincible. Even Luke managed to break Vader's momentum for a moment when he hit him in Ep. V. Even in the best case for Vader - a hit like Luke did - this would be enough for Yoda to land another devastating hit.
Even when you think Vader is better on a technical level - which I did here to make this less one-sided - Yoda is by no doubt more powerful which easily compensates for Vader's technical advantage. Antoine Bandele figured out every flaw in this video.
disagree...vader would be able to take at least one non lethal hit, but yea, yoda would own vader in the end, even though vader would imo honestly hold him off for a long time using everything he has.
If Yoda couldn't break him near immediately he would never break him....on top of that Vader knows Yodas skill set and preferred fighting style down to a literal classroom science...
Yoda has no such likewise knowledge since Vader inarguably retooled his entire repertoire...
Yoda relied heavily on launching into the offensive...Vader relied heavily on coaxing opponents into doing just that....
A lot of people think his speed and dexterity would immediately outmatch Vader but Vader is not stripped of basic strategy during a hypothetical fight...he is hypothetically equipped with his knowledge, memory, and strategic mind....which dictates quite basically that he should not allow Yoda to attain close proximity.... until of course he has tired him out sufficiently to no longer require the distance...
I honestly feel like there is no debate as to whether Vader would win...it would merely be a question of how much damage he would take....
Vader vs Young Yoda though.....Vader wouldn't stand a chance.
To the actual original poster of this comment thread...your conclusion is based entirely upon Vader ALLOWING Yoda to directly assault him at the outset of a battle....which is incredibly unlikely unless Yoda started the battle with a surprise attack... namely by having Vader not know a battle was going to start at all until it did....which doesn't hold well for a hypothetical duel where combatants have actual knowledge that they are engaged in a duel........if he has knowledge that he is about to fight freaking Yoda, his strategy would compensate.....
Yoda doesn't compensate as well...and because of that, if he were to use his basic strategy of overwhelming acrobatic combat at all, (which is supposedly the nail in the coffin for Vader according to those whom think Yoda would win...so people are already assuming he would)...that predictability coupled with the exhausting nature of the strategy would leave him drained and exhausted by relatively simple yet force strengthened techniques of distancing....
Red Eyed Monster Here is the problem though Vader fought anyone anywhere near Yoda in speed not even Starkiller was that fast
Great video
Does Darth Vader practice form seven? Thanks.
Here come the Yoda fanboys.
Tanner Lowrie I am not a Yoda fanboy in fact i am the opposite but was this really a argument
+Tanner Lowrie Brace yourself. This could get as bad as Plague vs Kenobi comments. I agree with his orig video and his current one as well though.
Rob George Yeah. I'm not too sure how many of the council's VS videos I disagree with, mostly because they're my main source of knowledge for the EU, so as long as their arguments make sense, I'll most likely agree or believe them.
+Tanner Lowrie The Council offers a perspective different then mine often, Usually I know enough about 90% of matchups and always think who wins. As I watch, I love to see how vs video people either agree of disagree with my thoughts. Don't always agree with them of course (Revan could beat Yoda).
Rob George Yeah, but I agree that while Revan could defeat Yoda, it would not be the most likely outcome.
Jesus man , get to the point.
It seems you really play down yoda's abilities.
Think about this. Yoda has been at it for 800 years. Vader 44 years. I love Vader as well but let's be honest. Yoda would tear his ass up quick. You went way to far into it. There's so many vs videos. I think you got bored and redid this and changed the out come.
Yoda tied Sideous.so are you telling me Vader could beat him as well?
To me it seems like yoda's abilities are always played down in all of the VS series.
So that's my opinion like it or not. 😂
Really, Vader’s been doing this for 35-odd years. Yoda did it for 775 (joined the Jedi around 125.)
It's beautiful.
Though I didn't get to see the original video I already foresaw the results
LMAO, this video.
You do realise Yoda has been confirmed to be top 3 in the prequel trilogy interms of lightsaber combat by Gillard(guy who made the) lightsaber duels in the prequels, via the fact that he ranked him as a 9.
Then there's also the fact that he outfought Dooku,one of the most skilled lightsaber combatants ever on 2 different occasions and stalemated Darth Sidious, another 9 and subsequently top 3 duelist.
You can't go around claiming Yoda isn't good with a Saber on the battlefield when he has several canonical statements that dissaprove this.
"When Yoda took out his lightsaber, he was as masterful with it as without".
Stop spreading misinformation tgat has been canonically dissaproved several times.
Hit Mightiest of Men
Fully agree, Yoda took the heads off of two clone troopers without even blinking, can duel Sidious and repel force lightning, which Vader can't do.
Mav R you're missing the point. Force lighting and clone troopers are irrelevant in this duel.
He isn't saying Yoda's not good, he said that apart from Sidous, no one has been able to capitalize on his weaknesses. Vader is simply a better swordsmen, he has more at his disposal and has more life and death experience to pull from, all of them were against Yoda's students . I think Vader vs Asoka is good example of what would happen. Vader can counter Yoda's initial attack with some defensive work, counter Yoda's acrobatics with wide sweeps of his blade forcing him back. Then crush or subvert Yoda's defenses all the while wearing him down.
Brett Palmer But Vader is too slow to fight back against Yoda
I think you have to keep in mind that Yoda's speed isn't a that big of a trump card. Doku, I hope I spelled his name right, was able to contend with it, and when you compare Yoda's speed from the clone wars to adult Asoka there isn't that huge of a gape. Plus Asoka makes up for the lack speed with two light sabers of proper length. Yoda is still better but the fight stile and overall threat is very comparable. In short Yoda's speed from the movies and the cartoons, doesn't seem to be anything Vader can't handle base on his fight with Asoka.
Darth Vader could never beat Yoda. Yoda would destroy Vader.
Maby write some Argumets other than "He would loose cuz I think he would"
he can contend but he won't win
Darth Vader Yoda is way too fast for Vader and he is a better duelist and force user.
Though I can see Vader putting up a good fight
I don't know, Vader is a super unorthodox fighter. He adapts for the opponent where as Yoda sticks with tried and true. I also believe he has a greater command of the force, best shown in AotC, RotS, and ESB when Yoda was repeatedly shown to require great amount of focus to summon enough energy to utilize telekinesis. In the two cases that apply, had to holster his lightsaber first. It wouldn't be an easy fight for Vader but I think he takes it.
You should do Inquisitor Jarec vs Count Dooku next Jensaarai1. 😎
I like the improvements you made to this video. While most of the edges went to vader as expected, it didnt feel like you were bashing yoda a majority of the time.
@Jensaarai One this is is such a masterpiece and inspired to continue the train in the way of the sword.
Alright, i believe that you are an analytical GENIUS. I am and have been a HUGE fan of yours, and i would love to collaborate on a video with you. Please reply to this comment in response to my request.
Can you make Darth Nihilus vs Exar Kun?
Darth Malgus vs Swtor Lord Socurge. Also, Wookiepedia says that Vaders gauntlet has essentially a magnet to his light saber and is a mandalorian gauntlet.
Well made video!
Great job on this one Jensaarai. How about Sidious and Vader versus Revan and Malak?
Ronald Ritchie That's great
Ronald Ritchie Sidious > Revan and Vader > Malak. It's a bit one sided really
Macattack 1 honestly Revan would probably identify Malak would need help and help him defeat Vader that being said against Sidious Malak would fall shortly and after an amazing show of force powers Revan would fall as well Sidious is too strong
If I have to guess I'd say that Sidious would curb stomp either of them. Malak v Vader might see a Vader victory though a Revan v Vader duel is a little more up in the air for more than just the obvious reasons.
Elitrio2 "Malak vs Vader might see a Vader victory". Lol no, Vader destroys him definately. Revan vs Vader, however Revan most likely wins. Darth Revan (pre KOTOR) would definately lose though.
What is that jazz music around minute 24?
I see how Vader gets the physical edge, but Yoda should have gotten the edge in the Force section of the video; and as for their dueling abilities it could honestly go either way.
32:27
I do think a stalemate is a possible outcome here, but that's the best Vader could hope for.
@@nxzavian oh please. In order for Vader to leverage his endurance, he would need to be able to content with Yoda's speed which he can't. If starkiller can leverage his speed against Vader, so can Yoda. This is simply a matter of common sense
I can't agree more. 👍
What if Yoda went into this with foreknowledge of what Vader was capable of
Jensaarai1 can you do Exar Kun vs Obi wan Kenobi