Versus Series: Kao Cen Darach Vs. Asajj Ventress (Legends only)
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- My analysis of Kao Cen Darach will reference multiple academic sources, such as The Jedi Path, the Journal Of Gnost-Dural, and The Old Republic Encyclopedia, but it is primarily extrapolated from his lone media appearance, the Return Cinematic Trailer. As should be obvious, my analysis of Asajj Ventress will be based purely upon classic Legends material, most notably the Clone Wars microseries and the Dark Horse comics, excluding her appearances in The Clone Wars animated series and all of its tie-ins, particularly the New Canon novel, Dark Disciple.
To summarize, Ventress in "Legends" was effectively Dooku's pet serial killer, a deeply disturbed individual who would've been a natural fit for NBC's Hannibal. By contrast, Ventress in "Canon" was a weak pantomime villain jumping from one parental substitute to the next, spending most of her run as a disposable lackey to whichever master she happened to be serving, and when she finally did step up and start calling her own shots, she got herself horrifically murdered. In essense, the writers of TCW got Ventress' character ass-backwards, stripped her of her iconic weapons, stripped her of her iconic appearance, then killed her off in a crappy harlequin romance novel.
To hell with that, Legends all the way.
And with that bloody noise out of the way, let us proceed with Kao Cen Darach Vs. Asajj Ventress.
[06:55] - The Old Republic Encyclopedia, Pg 258, Sentient Species - Zabrak
[07:14] - The Jedi Path, Pg 114, Jedi Guardian
[10:13] - The Old Republic Encyclopedia, Pg 261, Sentient Species - Rattataki
[10:32], [35:03], [36:51] - Yoda: Dark Rendezvous, Chapter 1
[11:18] - The Cestus Deception, Chapter 51
[14:29] - The Jedi Path, Pg 118, Jedi Guardian - Lightsaber Instructors
[16:17] - The Old Republic Encyclopedia, Pg 85, Leaders of the Jedi Order - Grand Master Satele Shan
[16:35] - The Jedi Path, Pg 138, Additional Lightsaber Techniques - Trakata
[18:07] - The Old Republic Encyclopedia, Pg 168, The Sith - Darth Malgus
[20:04] - Jedi Vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force, Pg 139, The Dark Side - Dark Side Disciples
[22:11] - Clone Wars microseries (2002-05), Chapter 22, Audio Sample
[24:17] - The Cestus Deception, Chapter 77
[24:20], [37:01] - Yoda: Dark Rendezvous, Chapter 8
[27:20], [28:32], [28:57] - The Journal of Gnost-Dural, Pg 21, Chapter Two: The Return of the Sith Empire
[29:12] - The Jedi Path, Pg 69, Lightsaber Forms - Form III Lightsaber Combat: Soresu
[33:22] - The Cestus Deception, Chapter 25
[33:32] - The Cestus Deception, Chapter 29
[34:50] - Tales of the Jedi: Dark Lords of the Sith - Issue 3, Descent to the Dark Side
I feel like Battlemaster Darach was vastly underestimated here. Darach was capable of going toe to toe with both a Darth, and his apprentice Lord, who happened to be the most powerful SIth of his time, by a long shot. Simultaneously. Even Grand Master Satele couldn't hold Malgus at bay for long, after significant time and training on the battlefield.
Not only did he practically toy and ragdoll Darth Vindican, who we can safely assume was a well-respected Sith (You don't last long as a Darth if you can't back it up), but he lasted long enough to defeat him, while staving off Malgus. Its no wonder he didn't have the energy left to fight Malgus, who could at least match the Hero of Tython, the strongest Jedi of their era, period.
It took a strike force from the Republic and Empire to bring Malgus down once, all war heroes in their own rights, and Darach very nearly managed on his own.
If Vindican hadn't been there, the Battlemaster very likely would have had enough stamina to outpace and defeat the Sith Lord.
To be fair Satele was 1. Only a Jedi Knight at the time 2. Malgus likely grew much stronger by that point in time people forget characters aren't static
@@DTheCritical Didn't think I'd see a reply on this two years later, dang.
You make a really good point, though. Malgus might have been powerful at the time, but he was clearly not Emperor Malgus level. Still, I think Darach duking it out against two Lords of the Sith, especially for such a long battle, was an impressive feat, but maybe not quite as impressive as it might seem at a glance when you look at Malgus.
Clearely Kao is very strong. Top tier jedi. He could have beat prime Malgus for sure.
Not to mention he was just in a fight before fighting a two-on-one then fighting a one-on-one right after and had just thrown several large items at the start of the battle.
Yeah I think if he had even half the stamina he had at the beginning of the fight he would have put young malgus away too. People also forget at this point koa is probably In his late 30s to early 40s and malgus looks like he's In his late 20s In that fight. Also don't see any jedi or sith using both a regular light saber and a saber staff in perfect unison in a 2v1. From what I've read it takes great skill to use a staff and it's more dangerous than a single blade to the user
I have never understood why so many seem to dismiss Kao Cen Darach as lacking in endurance, the fight vs. Malgus commonly referenced to back up this claim came after a long & active duel involving the aforementioned Malgus & a powerful & capable ally.
It is a strange thing to suggest someone has lacking endurance when they fight 2 aggressive opponents defeat one & then fall to the second.
I question your reasoning here. Nice video, but the endurance argument seems weak & very much so, if I'm being honest
Bronhan Ryl Ghan I agree. That’s exactly what happened to Dooku. However, Ventress has many times fought Kenobi and Skywalker together and not fatigued, so she clearly had more stamina.
I don't necessarily disagree that Ventress outdoes Kao Cen Darach, in terms of endurance, that I could see.
On Darach's endurance, though? Jensaarai1 is going to need to make a far better case, if he can? if he intends to prove Darach's endurance is so lacking as he seems to believe.
Ave a good'n, my friend
I don't think Jen believes Darach lacks endurance. He simply stated that the combination of possessing inferior endurance to Ventress and having a style that relies on his opponent leaving him an opening, something Ventress isn't liable to do in a reasonable time frame given her own level of skill, would ultimately lead to his defeat.
I draw my conclusion re. the endurance question based on his commentary specifically relating to the 2 vs. 1 duel, just to be clear. I can agree with the premise of Ventress's skillset being a problem for Darach, no problem there, my friend.
:up:
The Star Wars fanbase is more divided than Snoke's midsection
LUL.
John Porteous you mean Snoke’s skull?
Ooooh colder than a night on Hoth 😂
😭😭🤣🤣
accurate
"To Hell with that: Legends all the way."
That sums up my standing policy on Star Wars in general now. To say that I'm upset about what Disney has done would be a gross understatement.
^ THIS!!!
I absolutely hated the Legends portrayal of all of the original characters from the OT. They were in the OT so they're automatically the best in the galaxy at what they do? Boooo!!! I don't like the idea that original characters should be entitled to great success/power. Boba Fett becomes Mandalore?? Yeah okay. In fact almost all of Post RotJ Legends was a complete mess.
-Luke vs Luuuuke
-The Emperor comes back
-Anti-force lizard...
-Yuzhan Vong war didn't feel like SW
-No tension because after Palpatine Reborn nothing could compete with Luke excluding Abeloth
The list goes on. In the post Galactic Civil War era I honestly prefer canon. That being said I do think Pre-ANH Canon is faaaar inferior to Legends. Legends overall is still superior but that may be because Canon just got started. Early EU was very very bad. People seem to easily forget.
im with you on this. i just finished the darth bane trilogy. and i almost enraged as bane when i think of how great this story is in comparison to the bad story telling and retconing by disney
VSX0021OmegaGundam We haven't forgotten, we just don't care.
@@VSX0021OmegaGundam are you seriously defending canon?
No offense but I think you are biased here. Asajj Ventress is not bringing anything Kao Cen Darach hasn't seen, in my opinion he is the far better swordsman, and her use of Jar'kia is pointless against him because it is clear he is the better master of that art. (Using Saberstaff and his own lightsaber at the same time.) Darach knows all of the advantages that it would give her and would easily be able to combat them, secondly Ventress would not be bringing up the same level of energy requirements compared to Malgus. Ventress's fight with Anakin on Yavin is not nearly as long as you seem to think it is because she actively breaks from the combat to regain her strength and posture. Darach did not have an opponent doing that in his final duel, he was doing a slugging match. And when Anakin did not allow Ventress to break away she started to crumble. So endurance is a wash for me.
Crazyscotsman If anything, he’s biased towards Darach. It’s clear how much he loves him as a duelist (he’s been in like 6 VS matches) I wouldn’t say he’s a better master of Jar’kai because of that one application. If he were, he’d outright use dual blades. She may not match Malgus’s power, but she does outmatch Darach pretty much everywhere physically.
[[No offense but I think you are biased here. Asajj Ventress is not bringing anything Kao Cen Darach hasn't seen, in my opinion he is the far better swordsman, and her use of Jar'kia is pointless against him because it is clear he is the better master of that art.]]
There's nothing indicating Darach is more skilled then Ventress. Ventress has legitimately defeated the likes of Kit Fisto and contended with the likes of Windu far before her prime. Darach being a battlemaster isn't even comparable considering Fisto and other opponents Ventress fought evenly with were stated to be amongst the best lightsaber combatants and most powerful Jedi in the history of the Order. Mace himself has been placed second only to Yoda in the Order's history and Kenobi as of his prime is stated to be THE master of Soresu.
[[Ventress would not be bringing up the same level of energy requirements compared to Malgus.]]
This is based on nothing more then your own opinion considering Ventress has demonstrated that she is far more powerful then Malgus as of the Hope trailer let alone as of Return.
[[Ventress's fight with Anakin on Yavin is not nearly as long as you seem to think it is because she actively breaks from the combat to regain her strength and posture.]]
Nowhere does she actively break away to regain her strength. The only moments she doesn't directly engage with Anakin are to either ambush him or target him from afar with her Force powers.
[[And when Anakin did not allow Ventress to break away she started to crumble. So endurance is a wash for me.]]
That was an enraged Anakin who we know pressured Dooku in a similar state not long before that point. And I'll remind you, this was a Ventress before receiving any training from Dooku.
I do agree with you in terms of Kao Cen Darach being more skilled, he was a Jedi battle master, meaning he had mastered all seven forms of classical lightsaber combat. His battle with Malgus & Vindican proved he had rightfully earned the title. While Ventress does have more battlefield experience, I don't think it's enough to overcome Kao Cen Darach's skill advantage. It could also be argued that Kao Cen Darach may have been able to beat Malgus individually with full stamina since he performed so well when fighting Malgus and Vindican together. Granted I am talking about Young Malgus, but still it does prove Kao Cen Darach's level as a combatant.
I'm curious how does ventress show she is "far more powerful" then Malgus? cause that seems like personal preference to me. Malgus is a complete freight train that needed to be taken out by a squad of 4 sith(according to canon in swtor).
Crazyscotsman asajj ventress has fought anakin and obi wan Who could beat malgus in a even fight plus darach May be slightly better lightsaber duelist but ventress has more force power
is it weird i love kao cen even though i don't know much about him lol? That trailer told me enough though!
Noel Rose not really. I love him too.
He's a stone cold badass.
He is everything you want a jedi to be, willing to self sacrifice, extreme power that he knowledgeable enough to to fall corrupt to, and looking at direct feats beats every OT and prequels jedi and sith like it was nothing.
Noel Rose no cuz I enjoy watching his trailer repeatedly because I believe they wasted a incredible character
jessup shutt honestly I wish they made a few prequel novels about him and ven zallow
As much as I love TCW, that Dark Disciple roast was so deserved.
Ventress deserved better.
Diana Barnett Indeed. A nonsensical romance with Quinlan Vos ? Da fuk ???
Not to mention Quinlan Vos in that book was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too OP. He completely overwhelmed Dooku with no effort with only a short time of training in the dark side. Yoda could beat Dooku but it took time and effort. This also begs the question, if Vos can instantly curb stomp Dooku, why didn't the send him to get Palpatine in Episode 3 instead of Skywalker and Kenobi?
Ironinquisitor Feels like a kneejerk reaction of the people at Lucafilms to fans criticizing TCW Vos, and a really poor job at addressing their complaints. Probably their excuse would be "CUZ HE TURND 2 DA DARK SIED BEFUR, HE COULD TURN EVEEL AGAIN". Dumb simplistic excuses like that.
Couldn't have said it any better.
Your videos, the arguments behind them and your opinions continue to impress and amaze.
Your summarize of Asajj Ventress' character and how she evolved in the Legends (the Classic) continuity is passionate yet also has strong logic and references.
Your description of Kao Can Darach has improved even more since the Uncut Blocks; especially with your analysis of his strength limitations, and the circumstances of his defeat. I'm very impressed that you caught on to Malgus' reputation prior to the start of the Great Galactic War. The references for SWTOR and Darth Malgus note that he ascended to the rank of Darth after killing Lord Vindican. Yet simply defeating a Jedi and killing a master would not justify an immediate promotion from Apprentice or Lower-tier Lord to a Darth. Malgus would subsequently have already moved outside of Lord Vindican's tenure when the Korriban recapture was undertaken, and given his personality and characterization this status wold have been built on his skills and reputation as a warrior rather than politics, assassinations or secrets like Darth Thanaton's promotion was.
Your theory over Ventress' original form orientation as Niman and Ataru, mirroring Kao Can Darach, is a strong surprise. And an intriguing one.
The most impressive feature of this video was how you presented as a contest of equals and similarities. Not the equals and opposites that is a typical trend in other fighting series, regardless of the type or genre. The parallels between such subversive, dexterous and precision fighters is extremely different from the typical pattern of strength and power-focused pairings that are more explosive but less suspenseful and straining than a contest like this one.
Another fantastic addition to the versus series.
okay, i have a serious issue with Thanaton, mainly because he basically blackmailed the Dark Council into making him a Lord and he tries to convince the Dark council that the character you play as in the Inquisitor storyline is a traitor and needs to be dealt with, but when he decides to throw down and is ultimately defeated, he's on his knees begging for his life until his neck is snapped. I think enlisting the help of Malgus would've really made the storyline a lot more fun imo, as Malgus is the one person who i think could reasonably expose Thanaton for the fraud he is, and finally make the Dark Council wake up and realize that making Thanaton a Lord was a mistake.
I love your analysis, but I disagree with your conclusions.
Kao Cen-Darach's behaviour was based on being outnumbered by the vanguard of the sith invasion, and he acquitted himself wonderfully given the circumstantial equivalent of getting jumped outside your office. I just don't think Ventress, while skilled, can consistently handle combat oriented master-level opponents. She's got an assassin skillset, the sith equivalent of a Jedi Sentinel, not a Guardian. Remember, Plo Koon fought her off decisively with a broken arm (in the old comics), and I definitely think Plo's not as good as Darach.
Also, now that I think about it, I think Zabrak physiology should give a little more of an advantage.
How does one conclude a lack of strength for a Zabrak that can hold his body in the air on one hand? Gymnasts are crazy strong, and the developed axes of rotation pointed out demonstrate an intentionally well honed strength. Darach was taking on a Sith Master as well as the freight train of raw strength known as Malgus for several minutes. A less puissant individual would simply fold under pressure: even the greatest warriors can rarely survive being outnumbered. And by what metric does one decide that Ventress will simply do things first, especially if Darach is more precognitive? Only aggression suggests that, and Darach is not hesitant.I greatly enjoy this channel, but more and more I am noticing a bias towards dark siders. While their aesthetic is appealing and compelling, the Star Wars mythos makes it explicit that the Dark Side does not truly make one stronger, on the battlefield or off
I don't think Jen has ever made an effort to hide the fact that he is a blatant Dark Side fanboy.
Its not that Darach's physical strength is lacking, its just his physique and style focuses on dexterity over strength than anything else. Darach having better precog is a theory by Shan rather than confirm. As for Ventress doing things first, there I'm split. I actually thing Kao is more creative with his application and while his style is defensive, he is very proactive with his force abilities, and reactive with lightsaber combat (as odd as that sounds).
Jensaarai1 I think that u overestimate the resistance of a zabrak in armour and how difficult chipping away would be. Also I think that (since kao has been seen using the force to attempt to stop malgus) if ventress was hit she would be stalled, allowing for some compensation ad kao slows down a bit. Also why wouldn't kao use his superior strength to overpower ventress? U said he was reactive and if he had mastered all forms (besides juyo since vapaad was not invented) why wouldn't he pull from his superior knowledge of different forms, using the strength based form 5 to take down ventress in a similar way to how anakin did whilst being more versatile and acrobatic than him to round out the style. And before u say he isn't strong enough or doesn't have enough stamina, he has to have mastered strength based form 5 and longevity based form 3 to be considered a 'battlemaster'. BTW I think ur vids are great so people who are upset by ur personal preferance if a certain faction in a fictional universe can fuck off
When you have the force you don't need strength to do leaps & spins & flips. You just use the forcd
@@robgeorge4581 So he should be approximately as dextrous as Ventress and much stronger. He's a Zabrak male, Asajj's strength should be comparable to that of an athletic human female.
The point stands, Darach would be much stronger than Ventress.
I simply don't see how Ventress could be rated as the *SUPERIOR* duelist and martial artist, to a *Zabrak battlemaster.* We can reasonably deduce that he's much stronger than Ventress and he, as Jensaarai noted, has more impressive acrobatic feats in the midst of battle.
It'd be generous to Ventress even to rate them as physical equals. Meanwhile, it's nothing other than absurd to suggest that Ventress, the mere pupil, is a superior duelist to a battlemaster who practically humiliated two Sith Lords at once.
So a mere assassin serving a Sith apprentice is powerful enough to defeat the bettlemaster of the entire Jedi Order? Seems well balanced!
Uh.... yes? Because position within a hierarchy or culture doesn’t exactly equate to strength.
@@Silva-ek9hd It does when that position is directly linked to certain abilities and knowledge of the Force.
@@KingOfShadows1500 Only, they're not based on having certain abilities or knowledge. Battlemaster, yes. A certain degree of skill is needed (arguably) but Sidious was at one point an apprentice.
@@Silva-ek9hd The difference between a Sith apprentice and an assassin is that the assassin's training is much more basic and much less refined. A Sith apprentice is meant to one day replace his master; therefore, his master will teach him everything he knows about the Force and train him in combat as well as he can. Conversely, an assassin is meant to be used as a tool. He only needs to be powerful enough to complete the various tasks that may be assigned to him, but not powerful enough to become a potential rival to the Sith master. That's why it makes no sense for an assassin to be as powerful as someone like a Jedi Battlemaster, who is supposed to be among the finest duelists of the Order.
@@KingOfShadows1500 Again, no that argument is still pretty moot.
" Conversely, an assassin is meant to be used as a tool. He only needs to be powerful enough to complete the various tasks that may be assigned to him, but not powerful enough to become a potential rival to the Sith master."
This statement is true, however being a tool, an assassin, doesn't mean you are somehow ultimately obligated to then be weak. Again, that's not how this works, a title doesn't dictate one's potential or skill level. By your literal standard, a sith assassin has every reason to be just as strong as some of the Battlemaster's. Especially during an era such as the Clone Wars. If you're meant to be strong enough to kill those you target, then clearly that speaks to a high aptitude of dueling ability. So even if we take it by your strict black and white thinking of title dictates power levels, they still wouldn't be too horribly off balance.
If I didn't know better, I'd say that Kao Cen Darach served as the blueprint for _Rebels_-era Darth Maul. Their techniques are very much alike when pairing a saberstaff with another weapon.
While you may have a point about Ventress in her new canon role, it doesn't take away her effectiveness as a fighter and a Force wielder: the Draw Closer technique she employed on Kamino, the ability to Force Choke four opponents at once, telekinetically using a discarded lightsaber to stab a Jedi in the back on Khorm, a successful bypassing of Tyranus' defenses on Serenno, disarming Jedi Councilor Obi-Wan Kenobi on Teth, defeating a four-armed General Grievous (given he had beaten her in their first encounter), burying Kit Fisto and Plo Koon in an avalanche, and briefly holding off Darth Maul. Pretty impressive feats, if you ask me.
While we're on the topic of Legends-era Ventress, there are a few things that you might have missed:
1. Ventress doesn't use Force stealth solely for hiding from powerful Force users; she could sneak up on them and, when she got close enough, kill them. It worked against Jedi Master Glaive, and she tried it against Darrus Jeht in _Dark Heart_ (though she deliberately let him escape per Tyranus' orders).
2. That time when she used the Force to separate a pillar and let collapse it on Tyranus from behind by slashing her lightsabers _at empty air._ I don't know how she managed that, but that certainly falls into the creative category. Even Tyranus was briefly caught off guard before disarming her.
3. Ventress has made numerous applications of Dun Möch. She used it to turn Rhad Tarn to the dark side and almost succeeded with Darrus Jeht. Her biggest setback with this method was Anakin Skywalker on Coruscant, but that's to be expected when you threaten his loved ones.
4. The short story _Dark Heart,_ which I strongly recommend you read for analysis: web.archive.org/web/20100522143823/wizards.com:80/default.asp?x=starwars/livingforce/swlf20050616darkheart
All in all, another excellent video.
DarthWill3 i would love to see Qui Gon vs Old Maul video, maybe not by Jen but still
We all know who would win, of course. ;)
as far as I know, nobody ever used Old Maul in the versus series, Old Ben Kenobi was used against Qui-Gon by Evan, if he is usable, Old Maul also should be used.
True enough. Old Maul has brought something new to the table: as a duelist, he is becoming more like Tyranus; as a Force user, he's most similar to Vader.
Even though I'm a big Kao Cen Darach fan and disagree with you on the outcome, It's really good to hear from you again, Jensaarai, and doing a versus video from the true Lore. Thank you and nicely done.
Kao Cen Darach is more powerful than Ventress in lightsaber combat and force powers. First, Darach is a battlemaster, mastering all 7 forms of lightsaber combat. As we see in just a few minutes in the Old Republic, we saw him used Form 2, Form 4, Form 5, Form 6, and even Form 7. Ventress is just someone who has lots of energy and doesn’t know how to use them. Darach, in my opinion, is roughly equal to power force users such as Mace, Yoda, or Palpatine. If you want me to explain why I believe that, feel free to reply.
There you go, finally someone who is right.
While I don't HATE what they did with Ventress in Canon, I agree with you that, overall, the Legends iteration of her character was better.
TinyTorah in terms of combat
Yes, but overall as well.
Kao Cen Darach was a Jedi Battlemaster at the time when the title actually meant something.. Prior to Ruusan, the title of Battlemaster was earned on the battlefield through blood, sweat and tear..
Proceed to shit on Kao Cen Darach for the rest of the video.
Not necessarily. He’s just stating his opinion based on the logistics of respective techniques and tactics
Great video, as always!
I would love to have Vestara Khai or Saba Sebatyne in your versus series at some point. These two are great but have been forgotten by many people.
Evannova95 says he’s going to use Saba in his next season of the Versus Series
The force is with me. Thank you Jensaari. I needed that nasty stench of TLJ removed
Legends > Canon any day!
Yes
#notmycanon Legends is the real Star Wars.
@@dazdavis7896 do not care
Ventress is good in terms of character but Darach stomps idc. Her power and skills are overrated/exaggerated.
Internet: come on Jen say it!
Jen: I will NOT include TCW
Internet: YAY!
I disagree, I think darach has got her. All that 'ventress will beat her to the punch' stuff is bullshit and since (as you say) she can't one shot him, she can't stop him from reconfiguring his style to outmatch her. He knows such a variety of techniques and styles that he doesn't need to be an expert at any of them, he just has to use whichever one suits the situation best. Also since he teaches lightsaber combat, he is used to being critical of other's styles (a very underrated ability which should not be overlooked but still commonly is) so he would be able to adapt to ventress that little bit quicker and gain an upper hand that little bit more effectively. You don't seem to understand that a jack of all trades combat style means that someone switches styles as the need arises, not just sticking to whichever style they typically lean towards.
I’d love to see a match (or more matches in case I missed one or more) featuring Ki-Adi Mundi
But what about the Droid attack on the wookies?
SirJedi Sentinel Antoine Bandele has done one, Ki-Adi Mundi vs Depa Billaba. I have also done one, Ki-Adi Mundi vs Kao Cen Darach, if you fancy checking it out.
Thank you
First off, great video. However, I disagree on some points and would like to add a few comments:
1) Physical Capabilities: Kao is a Male, already providing him with an inherent power advantage. Additionally, Kao is a Zabrak, boosting is pain tolerance to absurd levels, as can be seen when the Zabrak Jedi Koth is captured by Grievous( from clone wars, where he survived days of continuous torcher). I understand Ventress is tough but not as tough as a Zabrak, according to tons of sources "higher than average tolerance for pain". Zabraks are some of the toughest species out there. Zabrak culture made them experts in martial arts as described by the wookiepedia as "the best hand-to-hand fighters in the galaxy". This factor is punishment and dexterity as they are able to avoid and take punches and kicks, which are used frequently by Ventress. I would favor Kao is a 1v1 fight with no weapons any day over Ventress. She was overpowered by brute strength like that of Anakin Skywalker, who I consider to be strength wise inferior to Malgus. Kao fought two LORDS OF THE SITH, with one being fucking Darth Malgus, although is an early stage, he already had fought for almost an hour against vindican, a double-bladed lightsaber user that uses juyo with a mix of niman. Malgus joined after satele escaped and Kao took on BOTH vindican and malgus, having to deal with Malgus power throughout his fight. Through the enragement after vindicans death, Malgus´s power can only be said to have increased due to rage which would have boosted his already insane strength. It is not a fair comparison for Kao to be titled as a Battlemaster of Low endurance. His race and his years of training complimented his endurance. Ventress fought countless Jedi, but was simply overwhelmed each tie when faced with a powerhouse like Anakin, who is still inferior to Malgus. Simply said, Ventress is tough and has on par endurance but has no Zabrak traits nor experience with hand to hand combat, which would make Kao the winner of Round 1.
2)Martial Arts: Ventress utilized force pushes, kicks, shoves and some force augmentation to increase her speed and shield herself from direct damage. Point granted. But, and I have to stress this. She is no battlemaster. She has knowledge of the forms but only specializes in ataru, juyo and niman. Makashi has its influence, but it has little if any impact on her aggressive fighting style. Kao is master of all forms specializing in all Niman. I would compare him to Revan, no specialist but a generalist. He can counter his foes by waiting for flaws. Yes, he has no iron defence but he does not need to. Ventress won't overpower him nor throw him off guard. Revan would wait for a mistake or attempt counter attacks like Darach who would be more aggressive with his attacks, pressing Ventress into a corner with a force push. Ventress has no incredible force shield and could have her lightsabers removed either through the force or through a calculated melee attack by Darach. Ventress and Darach would fight to a tee but ultimately Darachs experience, aptitude and ability to outmanned and outsmart ventress, leading to a killing blow that would leave her dead. It would be close but Ventress is toast.
3) Closing thoughts: I think that your points are well planned and thought out but they do lack some analysis and points. I personally dont believe that a rattaki female would have a higher pain tolerance than a male zabrak. I don't think Ventress could win in a hand to hand fight. I don't think Darach or Ventress have a significant advantage when it comes to endurance. Ventress is no powerhouse. She wont overpower Kao, but she is faster yes. Kao can keep up though. I see this fight play out like Kao vs Vindican. A series of dodges to a series of aggressive attacks followed up by counter force push/shove or an ataru leap. Traded blows and shift in attacks frequently, but ultimately Kao would knock a lightsaber out of Ventresses hands or simply faint and counter ventress like malgus to ven zallow. This leads me to believe that ventress would batter Darach but would loose ultimately to a battle master.
Something else is that Zabraks have two hearts don't they? That would objectively provide him with more endurance, I'd imagine. I think the only reason Kao burnt out in his fight is that it was literally a 2v1 with no breaks. Asajj was doing a 1v1 with multiple breaks where she could catch her breath.
Awesome videos,great breakdowns!!! One of the only Star Wars guys that truly values legend material, and knows how important the 7 lightsaber styles really are hopefully Disney will use you for future help to save this franchise!!! 😎
Aw thats so cute. You think Disney should care what a youtuber thinks. How about we ger him to write Marvel movies as well 😂😂😂
I would love to see Mace Windu vs. Kyle Katarn or perhaps even Jaina Solo vs Dark Empire Luke
K Conroy
Mace takes Kyle without too much difficulty.
Jaina Vs. DE. Luke is an interesting fight, though.
Ki Adi Sandwich Don't be too sure. Remeber, Legends Luke said that Kyle was almost his equal, and that was Grand Master Level Luke!
K Conroy And yet, Kyle was absolutely destroyed in his fight with Caedus. Believe me, Kyle is nowhere near Luke’s equal.
Ki Adi Sandwich Ah, but was that due solely to Kyle's being outclassed by Caedus or because he yet again used another clever trick to end a fight, just like that cheap shot he used against Mara? Keep in mind too that the only time Caedus reverts to such underhanded tactics is when he feels he's on his back foot.
K Conroy no, it was solely due to Kyle being outclassed:
comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/django_f3tt/blog/kyle-katarn-vs-darth-caedus/125976/
Interesting theory! I love it. Kao Cen Darach definitely wins over Ventress!
That was an awesome video! i'm glad you give Ventress the credit she deserves far too often I end up viewing her as far less then other sith but..... no shit she IS Master level and an utter badass
Always glad to see another Jensaarai Versus vid. Would love to see you do Shaak Ti vs. Mara Jade, Exar Kun vs. Darth Krayt, Darth Maul vs. Darth Nihl, Even Piell vs. Rahm Kota, Roan Shryne vs. Kento Marek, or Aurra Sing(Legends) vs. Sedriss somewhere down the line. MTFBWY.
Ventress was a fanatical zealot, an assassin and an ambush hunter, the longer the battle goes on the worse off she is. Darach was a warrior trained for battlefield conditions and showed he could fight enemies both exotically armed and stronger than himself. I'd expect Ventress to win 2/10 and Darach to win 4/10, with 4/10 encounters being unresolved based on Ventress being unable to finish Darach and Darach being unable to pursue Ventress after a retreat.
I agree, especially if viewing the duels from the SWTOR Return trailer and the duel on Yavin IV from the clone wars micro series as prime examples. Both faced opponents that favoured overwhelming strength but I see Darach lasting just that bit longer than Ventress, if only due to his Zabrak hardiness. Although both fell foul of a rage pumped Djem So specialist.
I don't personally believe Kao Cen Darach was bad at strength enhancement or not as strong given how he can walk around clad in full armor and pull off impressive acrobatics in them, I think it's more of a strategy to conserve energy given the circumstances to focus more on footwork and positioning as well as supporting his Padawan, not to mention any kind of strength feats would likely be useless against somebody like Malgus who is far stronger and more focused on rage-fueled power blows. But of course with so little material to judge him based on it would be hard to know anything for sure
Can't wait to see Valkorian in fights now that his story is up.
Darth Cuddlefluff if he is, he’s gonna have to be a pure force duel. He has never been involved in any lightsaber fights. He’s 100% a force combatant. He’d have to be used in the same way EvanNova95 used Joruus C’Baoth vs Volfe Karkko
I doubt Jen will ever use him. He has stated that he doesn't like Vitiate at all
@Emperor Vowrawn Give me time. I will surpass them all.
Hey Connor, would describing Eeth Koth's fighting style as Darach lite be a fair assessment, since he was (likely) an Ataru/Makashi/Niman practitioner ?
This would certainly be a one-sided stop on Kao Cen's side. He would manhandle her with no difficulty. If you put Ventress in the same situation Kao was in you start to get the picture.
I fully agree with what you said when comparing Ventress' Legends iteration to her canon one.
I like you Jensaarai, I really do. But you seem to get the TOR Era timescale wrong in about every video you do with these characters that mentions it. In this one, you're putting the start of the Great Galactic War as 18 years BEFORE it actually happened. In one of your early videos, I'm sure I heard you say something about the Two Decade long Cold War.
Great Galactic War: 3681 BBY to 3653 BBY
Cold War: 3653-3641? (possibly. The Game states that the war started during Chapter 3. Although who actually instigated it is blamed on several of the game's Player Characters.)
Galactic War: 3641?-onwards (they seem to continue the war, even with the Eternal Empire's attack.)
I love asajj but she would crumble or convert in a duel with durach.
I never knew that Ventress in Legends was this cool!
Gotta say man, your analysis of these characters, their martial skills, force skills and the arguments for and against why a character would or would not win against another are always well made to me. Keep up the fine work, Jensaarai! ;)
I did have a question Jensaarai. I was a big fan of your Sora Bulq versus Kao Cen Darach video but was confused by this video. Why would Kao Cen Darach be able to handle a duel wielding battle master like Bulq but could not a dark side adapt assassin like Ventress?
Both Vindican and Darach are so fucking baller it's unreal, Darach has particular swag that unlike someone like Niko Okarr isn't forced in the least.
Two great characters that ignited my love for star wars anew when this trailer came out.
I've always seen it as Malgus winning for plot reason as they have milked him dry for over a decade now. Malgus was their golden goose.
4/10 not enough Coleman Trebor.
Coleman Trebor vs Othone anyone? Or Trebor vs Liam the Padawan!
Rob George lol, this^
+Thomas Opdal Coleman Trebor is a low memtic tier Star Wars character (which means he can curbstomp GM Luke). He needs a proper challenge.
I always feel bad for Othone. He's a really underrated Jedi especially given how impactful his actions were.
Going against two sith lords one being malgus who had extreme strength. His endurance is amazing lol. I would like to sed most of you hold off my attacks with a lightsaber for that long and see how you do.
I'd love to see more of Dooku and General Grievous. They're always seen as below Vader and Palpatine because of how bad the prequels were. However Dooku and Grievous were great villains and one of the few good things about the prequels. I hope you can do more videos on those two.
Prequels are actually pretty good but they don't do those 2 characters justice. (not enough screen time mainly).
What are your thoughts on a form 6 saberstaff user who emphasizes form 1, 3, and 5 shien (this is used primarily on battlefields to overpower non-force sensitive assailants through aggressive broad sweeps and telekinetic blasts). How do you think it would translate if used in form 7?
Tristan offencively against a single foe of comparable talent the from6 example would be at a minor disadvantage as form1 wouldn't be very effective and shien is very immobile. Combat dynamic is key in a 135 style is it cut lose in form one or start with three learn the lapses and use one or five as needed. The form seven basis is a slightly more defensive general grievous aggressive with capability to defend but If not controlled to the extent of episode one Maul susceptible to lapses in defence in an attack sequence. The weapon in both would be a fair choice but for different reason in six style changes on the fly in seven more killing surface for both someone with qui-gon's skill set would be their doom form 2 with 4 would undermine all the weaknesses of 1356 and 1357 with the former more likely to last longer
What part of form 6 would he be using a staff with?
force integration yes you mentioned that
aggressor tricks ? you didn't clarify this one
diplomat's probably not.
Furthermore
1 is battlefield trained mostly, but at the very least normally unsuited for dueling (with few exceptions)
3 is purely defensive with rare deflection parry retaliations
5 shien is mostly retaliative and aimed deflection-centric
These latter three forms lack melee attack capacity in many ways, but at least in initiating them.
Aside from 6 force integration, aggressor tricks would be highly needed to supplement the offense.
But did you really want to ask with form 7? Give the whole phenomena an aspect describable as trading defense for assured hits and staccato attack attempts? Please clarify!
Brenn Tantor; while on the battlefield, uses form 3 and 5 to wall out enemy fire before rushing in. Form 6 is the base, but forms 1, 3, and 5 shien are emphasized more than form 4 (form 2 doesn't appear at all). Telekinetic strikes are integrated often. Think of like starkiller except more likely to jump into the middle of a fight. The saberstaff is actually paired dual phase sabers that are more often used like a great sword, if the situation allows for it. Form 7 is used purely in an attempt to transform the style altogether into a dueling technique, dropping the greatsword idea to fully cut loose with the saberstaff.
Aside from the dual phase greatsword gimmick, this just looks like a convoluted forced attempt to explain the forms of a video game consular character, like from KotOR.
Anyway, you're connecting Shii-Cho, Soresu, and Shien with Juyo by using Niman between them. I'd say you should switch out one of either Soresu or Shien for a more offensive style to have a good offense foundation to branch out from.
An overly complicated mess.
And I never understood how the seven forms were supposed to apply to a double-bladed saber. It's an entirely different weapon when both blades are activated.
Best Ventress Versus I've ever seen. She's not some goddamn manic pixie dream girl, she is a fucking expert hit woman with severe issues and a military generalship. And while I personally tend to put Darach higher than Ventress in terms of net power, you make a DAMN good argument for her overcoming him. This is why I'm so grateful for you guys dispensing with power-scaling...Darach is on the level of Mundi or Koon, and Ventress is low-tier Council member on her best day, but everything about her Legends approach perfectly optimizes her for a confrontation with somebody like Darach himself. She's prone to fall to somebody like A'Sharad Hett or Rahm Kota, who themselves could never take Darach, but she's an extremely versatile and tremendously skilled combatant nevertheless. It's great to see her getting the respect she deserves.
Some thoughts for future videos:
Darth Malgus v. Depa Billaba
T'ra Saa v. Joruus C'Baoth
A'Sharad Hett v. TCW Maul
Ki-Adi-Mundi v. Qu Rahn
Darth Vader v. Satele Shan
An'ya Kuro v. Count Dooku (more about their philosophies than abilities of course)
And, as always...
Darth Vectivus v. Master Faye
+Evan Here my thoughts on your matches (and they are really good btw). Malgus, C'Baoth (his beard alone is quite powerful), Which incarnation of A'Sharad? If its Darth Krayt version then he curbstomps, Mundi, Vader (but Satele can catch Lightsabers), in terms of force abilities, I say Kuro is better. But that's because she can phase through objects and teleport. Darth Vectivus is my fav Sith Lord btw so I thank you for suggesting a match with him. Also like Master Faye. But I don't think we fully know their capabilities. Id probably side with Vectivus because force phantoms.
Hey, thanks! For A'Sharad, I'm talking about the iteration that escaped Order 66 and takes into account the lightsaber duel where he lost his arm to Obi-Wan on Tatooine, so right before he steps fully into the Dark Side. I agree that Maul stands absolutely zero chance against Darth Krayt. As for the other fights, I can definitely see where you're coming from and agree on most (the first two I have conflicting opinions on, but they're made to be fights that can go either way). For Vectivus and Faye, unfortunately we know next to nothing about either of them so it's more a joke matchup, however I'd love to see Jensaarai in particular do a video similar to Warb Null's first exposure, because there's just enough on both combatants to allow inferences as to their abilities and power levels. And...well, with what the source material suggests, that'd be a battle between two incredible Force-users, especially with the strong implication that Vectivus is of the Banite line.
+Evan Ok, thanks for they clarification. That one is quite tricky then. I think TCW Maul takes it because of his physicality, unarmed combat skills, and superior dueling skills. Hett at that point is quite powerful and skilled, but there is nothing indicating hes at TCW Maul's level. I picked Malgus because while Depa is equal maybe a betters swordsman, Malgus's physicality and far greater force abilities lets him pull a win. As for the 2nd match, I picked C'Baoth mainly because I don't really know much about T'ra Saa. I wouldn't say Vectivus and Faye is a great idea for a joke matchup. But like you said, there is so little material to work with and no RPG stats to help flesh out their skillsets (something Warb Null has). As for a joke matchup, I have thought of many but this is my current fav. EU Admiral Ackbar vs Mystery Inc Fred Jones. Can Fred trap Ackbar?
Hahaha maybe my phrasing was erroneous...I don't mean so much a joke as a non-traditional matchup that really wouldn't be grounded in anything like the other VS videos. If we're talking a real joke matchup, my go-to is Shmi Skywalker brawling with Beru Lars.
I also give it to Maul, although only barely--Hett put up a damn good fight against Kenobi, and a lot can also be gleaned by how easily he survived Order 66 and a lot of similar events. Also, his Sing duel places him a lot higher than I feel people tend to give him credit, especially since that was a combatant somebody like Ki-Adi-Mundi had to do a lot to defeat. And as for Malgus and Depa, I do see your point, and I see the outset of their fight being a lot like Malgus v. Zallow. But whereas Ven Zallow can only get hammered on so much before he starts to crack, Depa has shown that she's resilient enough that even if Malgus keeps throwing her through walls Zallow-style, she's not going to wear down easily at all. Also, Malgus is an excellent fighter to use Vaapad against, and while Depa obviously never achieved Windu's superconducting loop, there's really nothing to suggest she couldn't bring Vaapad's power to bear against somebody like Darth Malgus to great effect.
+Evan lol Shmi vs Beru. I do understand where your coming from with Depa vs Malgus but I don't see the odds favoring Depa mainly because of Malgus's force abilities. Depa is tough and can do a slugging match if needed. Problem is that Malgus can easily rip through her force defenses. I see Malgus having force power comparable to Windu while Depa is around Kit Fisto levels. Also, like you said, Depa is a master of the physical technique of Vaapad, which would give Malgus a challenge but Malgus has shown he can tank and keep on going.
I love how to you don't use mostly the Crap that is new God awful star wars Disney Cannon, Welcome back. Jensaarai1 Is there a Chance that you will do a Grand Master Luke Skywalker Vs Darth Krayt(Legends Material only Thank you) Video if none of your Acquaintances haven't done it. You could work together with One of your Acquaintances Maybe Evennova95 on My request of the Grand Master Luke Skywalker vs Darth Krayt.
+Sci-Fi SithDan My thoughts are GM Luke wins but it def wont be easy for him. However, Darth Krayt is far more badass.
Luke takes it but its not a complete sweep in most cases. Krayt, and Luke fought a dark side entity of ungodly power together, and survived together.
Luke takes it in a pretty decent fight.
I think he once said he wouldn't use Grand Master Luck because of the extensive research it would take.
That's a video I'd love to see. Krayt is one of the few who can give Grandmaster Luke a run for his money. It would take a while to compile though. There's so much material available for research, which means more time would have to go into said research.
Anyway, like I said that's a match-up I'd like to see. Luke, in general has sparsely been used in versus videos by the Council, and Krayt's only been used once. But to be fair, both are about as OP as Star Wars characters can get.
You can't speculate on Derach. There isn't enough material. It's not equal.
This is one of the first outcomes of yours I actually disagree with. All and all though great video as always.
I think you still engage in an ongoing error. You assume that when someone blocks lightning with a lightsaber, it automatically means they do not know tutamenis. I would certainly agree that tutamenis is a very rare capability and you are probably right by default, but you come up with no reason why someone who would use a saber would lack the ability to block energy attacks with the force, such as with tutamenis.
Why would someone drop their weapon to deal with an energy attack when you can just wave it aside with bladework, and then be on your merry way with swordfighting. Its like saying Rambo's prodigious use of guns somehow means he has no idea how to use a knife.
I see no compelling reason to put away a lightsaber to use tutamenis unless your purpose is to demonstrate your capability in tutamenis. I see every practical reason to use your lightsaber to block lighting, even if you are a master at tutamenis.
Also, I maintain that in Malgus solo fight with Darach, Malgus rolled a 20. I think you rewind that and replay it, Darach wins 8/10 times. I think that a bad three seconds has everyone underestimating a guy who was almost like Jackie Chan against two very highly developed sith lords just moments before.
Steve Johnson while I see your point about tutamenis, I’m not sure it’s really relevant here as ventress can’t use lightning
God a Legends canon vs battle! You're god among men sir! Good match-up.
How come Darach, a battlemaster, can’t defeat Ventress when Anakin Skywalker could when he was still a Padawan. There’s a contradiction.
Because Darach's skillset, power level and approach to combat aren't as well suited to tackling Ventress as Anakin's are. It's also worth remembering that being a battlemaster at that point of time (a period of relative peace long before the role became exclusive to one Jedi) isn't an automatic sign of superiority. Lastly Anakin even at that stage in his life was a prodigy with the lightsaber and was a credible challenge to high ranking, highly refined and experienced lightsaber duelists.
While I could agree that PERHAPS Ventress has better stamina than Darach, I think you're downplaying a key factor: in his duel in Return, Darach begun fighting Vindican, while also defending Satele, then he ended up fending off BOTH Vindican AND Malgus simultaneously, which would require more effort than defending against a single opponent obviously, then he finally fought and fell to Malgus alone. So really you have to give credit where credit's due. I think you're overrating the gap, if any, between Darach and Ventress' stamina.
Good! You mentioned Darach's use of Trakata in the fight. A lot of people didn't catch his use of Trakata, let alone his total of TWO uses of it in the fight.
You seem to always take the side of the PROactive duelist rather than the REactive, regardless of skill gap. I'm honestly baffled you gave Ventress the edge in sabers. You're just giving me and others more and more reason to think you let bias seep into your analyses. :/
I do agree with your analysis in the Force Round however.
I'm completely open to the possibility that I'm slightly lowballing Ventress due to usually perceiving her more with ALL her feats and accolades, and not just Legends, but I disagree with the verdict. While Ventress had more of a variety of force powers at her disposal, and while she uses the Force more generously than say, her Jedi rivals in Kenobi and Skywalker, unlike Darach, she doesn't so much fluidly transition between lightsaber combat and using active force powers; she more so utilizes the breaks in lightsaber combat to then use the Force. Beyond that, there's the obvious skill gap between Darach and Ventress. And you make it seem like Ventress' affinity for changing the rules of engagement and utilizing her environment would have some kind of advantage over Darach, but he proved himself to be a true master of Niman in being able to perfectly adapt to the given situation, only waning when his stamina waned under specific circumstances that wouldn't apply if he were to fight Ventress.
I do agree with how close this would be though, and while I know the reason why you mainly didn't use any Canon info for Ventress for this match-up was because you hate what they did with her character, I think it was a good decision overall, because I DEFINITELY don't see Canon Ventress giving Darach as close of a fight.
I had some issues here and there, but ultimately, a damn good versus video. WHAT TOOK YOU SO LONG? XD
Don't forget Canon Ventress managed to force choke Kenobi and Anakin at the same time. She also defeated General Grievous and killed Master Tholme in the novel Dark Disciple. I think canon Ventress would do just as well against Darach.
And she managed to contend with Count Dooku and Savage Opress.
And Maul.
+TinyTorah Your thoughts are basically similar to mine as to why Kao should take this (though this is still quite close). I generally tend to go with proactive in a fight between proactive vs reactive but Kao's more developed skill and the fact he isn't entirely reactive (despite being a defensive fighter he took an offensive stance against Vindican and Malgus at the same time) which is why I say Kao gets the edge. Ventress has more powers, but they are all very situational and I don't think Ventress can cloak on the fly. You are right though, Kao has better application of tk, more fluid. I do understand Jensarrai1's argument (his presentation of his argument was very strong) though and the quality of this video was like you said "damn good." But if we give Kao Shan's saberstaff and his own lightsaber, gg Ventress.
I don’t know why everyone is claiming that Jen is biased because he gave Ventress the victory.
Ventress has contended with/ defeated people that would make Vindican and trainee Malgus look amateurish.
Honestly, I think Jen drastically overhyped Kao in this analysis.
Master duratck was a battle harded battlemaster who was skilled in all 7 forms of lightsaber combat so I disagree with you that ventress would have the edge I say Master duartck. Also Master Durartck is a master of the force things like battle meditation and telicaktics as well as force augmentation would most likely be required for the ranked position. Where vintress never showed much in the way of force powers or physical combat.
Thank goodness you're sticking with the Legends continuity. Gosh that new stuff is hard to ingest. If The Last Jedi isn't indicative of what Disney is truly doing then I don't know what is.
*digest
Not ingest
@@ThatDragonGuy Incorrect. Digest and ingest have two distinct definitions. I really mean "ingest." I'm going for the absorption of information(in this case the type of information is Disney's version of Star Wars). "Digest", in Disney's case, would be in the noun sense of their content revolving around Star Wars that is distributed for an audience. There is no verb sense that deals with the "absorption" of their "digest" of information(in this case Star Wars). The verb sense deals with "absorption" of that information, which is the definition of the word "ingest", which I correctly used.
Even a distinction is shown between the two regarding food and the interaction with said information in the verb sense; which reinforces what I'm saying.
Don't try to correct if you don't even have it correct yourself.
Definition:
in·gest
/inˈjest/
verb
verb: ingest; 3rd person present: ingests; past tense: ingested; past participle: ingested; gerund or present participle: ingesting
take (food, drink, or another substance) into the body by swallowing or absorbing it.
absorb (information).
"he spent his days ingesting the contents of the library"
(A basic Google search with a comparison of the words from the respective knowledge panels reveals this information. Come on man.)
Ventress from the 2005 Clone Wars would be way more effextive
Nice vs video but I just remembered a jedi named even piell and I wonder if you got something for him
I feel u underestimate kao cen physical capabilities too much he with stood multiple clashes with Malgus Nd his master Nd on top of that had to save satele hide twice during that battle (Shan was clearly the weakest person there) Nd after sending his apprentice away to clash with malgus nd his master Nd killed vindicus after BFR malgus for awhile so clearly he has a clear level of strength a cut above ventress Nd would not crumble ventress had showing some of getting overpowered by Palawan Anakin Jurado Knight Anakin Jedi master Obi wan all while great fighters r at least a tier Nd a half below malgus in pure strength
Great video as always man! Loved the Fable music in the background btw
Vindican vs Plo Koon
Battle of the serviceable
Koon is more then "serviceable."
Vindican has nothing to place him on Koon's level.
Plo Koon stomps hard.
As Henning and Myth already said, Koon in an entirely different league than Vindican. Plo Koon vs Corran Horn or Kyp would be a really interesting matchup though.
@@robgeorge4581 Plo Koon vs Corran Horn would be a very good fight.
@@tiredjediknight3110 Thanks. I remember I also suggested a team matchup of PloBiTi vs Corran, Mara, and Kyp.
As for Plo vs Corran, idk on this one.
I still love the respect salute malgus gave him before the final assault
Darach couldn't handle Malgus' strength in the end because he just got done dueling both with Satele Shan and then by himself against both of them, at that time holding off the strength of Malgus, and still impaling Vindican. So, at the end, he was exhausted and then couldn't hold up against Malgus. But he did hold up against the strength of Malgus while dueling Vindican also for a good period of time. I think most people don't take that in to account when judging Darach by that end part of the battle just with Malgus.
I know this is off topic. But Malgus was a beast
6:00 I hate when people just blindly defend Dave Filoni and TCW. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the show for what it is, but I have to turn my brain off to truly enjoy it. Ventress, Grievous, Quinlan Vos, The Mandalorians, the Clone's relationship and perception of the Jedi, order 66, and more...all of these things just ruined (in my opinion, and apparently MANY others) by Dave Filoni. Legends all the way
My exact same stance. I too can enjoy TCW as its own entity, but when the retcons and arbitrary changes add up, it just can't be defended or hold scrutiny to the EU.
Zabrak have 2 hearts and a high pain threshold. Not to mention men are generally stronger than woman. I think that Darach has the physical advantage.
Kao’s one of my fav characters in all of Star Wars lore. This would be a great battle, 2 of the best saber duelists of all, especially Darach.... There were not many Jedi at all that surpassed Kao’s level with a lightsaber.. Only the likes of Anakin Skywalker, Yoda, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Mace Windu, and well, that’s really about it... I can’t believe you give her every advantage. He had the advantage as a duelist. He was one of the top lightsaber combatants period. Of any age.
Lmao, Ventress was not a “weak villain” by any sense... Her character was not “ass backwards” at all. She was a badass, and one of the best lightsaber duelists of the entire Prequel/Clone Wars era. Which, was the most competitive lightsaber combat era of all. I mean she was trained directly by Dooku, and hung with Anakin Skywalker, Obi-Wan Kenobi, & Grievous, that alone shows how utterly skilled she was.
I like the reasoning, and your channel, just wondering if you ever had considered making your videos 1080p? Also a small nit pick which you can absolutely ignore is the quote writing would often blend with the background, making it hard to read. I also think you are slightly harsh on Darach ‘s stamina as he fought a long fight, a majority of it was 2v1, I feel it unfair for him to have significantly less stamina than ventress. Otherwise, great video!
I understand and can sympathise with your resentment of canon Ventress, but what of your opinions regarding some of the Disney novels like Tarkin, Lords of the Sith and Phasma?
Just has Disney is about to sway me to their side, you remind me of the *true* Star Wars and why I loved the series in the first place. #stillnotseenthelastjedi #legendsalltheway
We can talk about Darach endurance!? But, that has nothing to do with it. Put, Ventress up against Vindican and Malgus!? She wouldn't last a second. She'll be up and running or dead. Besides, we see how Darach fights! Ventress is not bringing nothing new to the table at all. Darach knows how to adapt, especially when he's pressured. Besides, I doubt Darach will play into Ventress game anyway. She can go jar Kai or double-staff. It makes no difference! She will not be able to push Darach to his limits. And I think Darach is pretty aware of his limitations!? Darach wouldn't go overboard with his usage of the force unless he has too. The only person that I see pushing themselves harder than ever is Ventress!!!!
There's no reason Ventress couldn't contend with Vindican and Malgus at the stage of their lives when they fought Darach. Ventress may (and it is may especially given her curved hilt lightsabers) not be bringing anything to the table Darach hasn't seen but what exactly is he bringing to the table she hasn't seen?
I think what all the people who dissagree with asajj winning forget that she operated in a time where the sith and top jedi where some of if not the greatest duelests and force users of all starwars, just surviving duels with the likes of anakin and kenobi is a massive feat in itself. She appears weaker than she actually is because she is being put against some of the best jedi in history.
I know this video is old but I am still baffled by the opinion that Darach is inferior to Ventress in physical terms. Darach is a Zabrak male likely in his physical prime (maybe at the tail end of it, but he doesn`t look old) and with decades of physical excercise as a Jedi and Battlemaster. In terms of pure genetics he should outstrip Ventress in physical ability, and his body is likely better developed than hers, her only advantage might be swiftness. I don`t see how she got the physical advantage. I think Ventress would have fared against Malgus about as well as Satele did when they first met (insert clip of Malgus folding Satele in half with a knee kick here). Darach is weak compared to Malgus, but Malgus is also 2,2m meters tall and probably 250pounds heavy, and potentially has Sith blood within him increasing his physical output (Seriously, Brock Lesner is small compared to Malgus), a Wookie would struggle with him in arm wrestling. Anakin is a small lightweight compared to Malgus. Ventress has not faced an enemy as overwhelmingly powerful as Malgus, so we cannot even begin to argue that she would have done better than Darach had she been in the same position. She might have been able to run away though.
I dont think its fait to say he lacks endurance when he was pretty much carrying the fight you mention after having a small skirimish with the sqaud of troops the sith had attack before hand, also I dont think ventres is pressing him like Malgus and Vendicit did, another thing of ventres is taking a beating which I'm sure hes capable of delivering, I see looking to run and trying to ambush and I just don't see her tiring him out to the same extent or falling prey too an ambush, Skywalker yes because hes arrogant and where his emotio s on his sleeves, most hedi especially a jedi master/battle master shouldnt fall for that imo.
As much as i enjoy your videos, i have to strongly disagree with this one. I'm starting to see a visible pattern of you basing your analysis on your personal bias of which character you prefer more rather than trying to look at it more objectively. I may be wrong but that's how i feel. Darach was strongly underestimated in this one for sure. There were too strong of a critical statements about his abilities judging from only a small clip while Asajj had a vast material on her side. In my opinion Darach showed much more in his footage than Asajj did in most of her singular confrontations (if we hadn't seen nothing else from her). I have lot more to say about this but whatever. It's not like i'm mad but i surely disagree with this.
Derach only lost due to fatigue he had malgus and Vindican pounding on him otherwise malgus would not have been able to power through
Never thought Jensaarai would be making a Hannibal reference in a versus video.
Great soundtrack choices, the Fable ost is fucking legendary
While I like Derrach more, ventress has better chances of beating him than vice versa. Also how's it going on that 3 v 3 video you Evan and reti are doing?
Obi-Wan vs Malgus & Vindicate.
Having taken down Anakin & Grevious in addition to Durge.
I think this is a fair match up. Derach is the Battlemaster according to Mace Windu himself Obi-Wan is THE Master, the simplistic style and Force powers I bet could do what Deratch couldn’t, take out both Sith.
It's really tough to make comparison based on one sighting where he loses in the end.
I really thought the video was well done. As much as I think I know about certain characters and their vastly superior legends continuity compared to the new awful canon helped really emphasize just how much characters like Ventress have been undermined. It really brought a lot of points to life that I did not know about her considering that I have been raised on TCW. It was a wonderful video and thank you for bringing yet again an enjoyable duel between two evenly matched foes that did not appear that way on first glance.
You made a much more thorough analysis of Darach’s saber skills. I think a vary good matchup against his set of skills would be the Old Republic Loremaster Gnost Dural. They both bring to the table a tactical and adaptable viability that could make for a very interesting duel that would definitely be impressive to see analyzed by an adept versus series creator such as yourself or another member of the council force cast.
Would it be fine to see revan (redemption) vs anakin (either sith or Jedi Knight), it’d be interesting
He'll probably never use Revan because you know Tor:Revan book- anakin, maybe.
He responded to a comment in an old video saying that he will never use revan ever, so that's not gonna happen unfortunately.
Darn, that is a bit of a shame in this case
+HDL As other people said, Jensarrai1 isnt going to use Revan (I know, what a shame). As for redeemed Revan vs ROTS Anakin (before he was a Sith Lord), Im going with Revan. Assuming redeemed Revan is Revan right after beating Malak. Physically, I side with Anakin. Dueling: Anakin's heavy offensive is going to give Revan problems and in terms of developed skill, I side with Anakin but Revan takes this on versatiltiy and tactics. When Revan deals with someone, he prefers to be on the def at first and get a feel for his opponent before chaning his skillset to counter (generally seen as Niman specailist who incoporates elements from the other forums). Anakin heavy offensive leads him prone to counter attacks (kind of like Malak), so I see Revan as being able to pull it off. Revan also is a master of unarmed combat having studied Mandalorian and Echani discplines of combat while Anakin isnt nearly as skilled providing Revan with more options to attack with. Finally, Revan has more combat expereince and his brilliance as a tactician is great for exploting Anakin's tendancies to go tunnel vision. Force abilites: Revan. Revan has greater developed power in the force (comp to a amped Malak), more abilites, and more skillful. While its true Anakin's potential is insane, his developed force power is comprable to Shak Ti or Kenobi. While drain doesnt work on Anakin, and Revan hasnt displayed combative sorcery, lightning and more skillful usage of his abilites gives Anakin problems. Anakin is more than capable of contending and is going to give Revan a really hard fight, but in the end I side with Revan.
Hey Jen, can you plz do a verse I want? It's Exar Kun vs Anakin Skywalker and/or Exar Kun vs Count Dooku.
They should've called "The Last Jedi" a different name: "The Last Abortion"
Because it was-
*wait for it*
half baked.
xd
Completely wrecked the Skywalker legacy.
Wait for Episode 9: The New Low.
SolarDragon007 who calls the best star wars movie an abortion lol
Rory Bagnall, That's a great joke.
Jensaraai One why did you forget about Vader weakness of pattern recognition?
Damn fine as usual. Thanks for sticking to the EU
I don't think you gave Darach enough respect as a duelist. As a battlemaster, I think he is of a much higher caliber than Ventress. Furthermore, his knowledge of the various lightsaber forms would limit the advantage that Ventress gets from Jar'kai. (Consider Kas'im's near-deeat of Darth Bane. So much of the effectiveness for Jar'kai is derived from its obscurity.) That obscurity won't help against Darach.
Also, could we see Saba Sebaytne in one of these?
Being a battle master doesn't guarantee victory over your opponents and Ventress isn't relying on unfamiliarity with Jar'Kai to best him. She's a well trained and experienced warrior, she would user her skill to engage and defeat him
There's literally nothing she can do to win against him. Darach stomps her more often than not.
@@SavageAcorn Darach isn't stomping anything when it comes to Ventress. She's a well trained, highly skilled and experienced duelist capable of engaging some of the greatest warriors of her era including Jedi council members of the master level. Combine that with her unorthodox weaponry and the multitude of options they provide in combat as well as her integration of powerful force abilities along with lightsaber combat and she's a formidable opponent for Darach to engage. Especially given that Darach only has access to his single lightsaber, he doesn't always have ready access to Satele's after all.
My previous comment was a tad misleading however, I don't believe Ventress is guaranteed to win against Darach as he has the tools he needs to defeat her and the more balanced mindset. But similarly Ventress is capable of defeating him as well. It's a solid fight and if these two were placed in a handful of matches Ventress would absolutely win some of those contests. No chance between these two of stomping at any point
I don't really think you grasp how far apart they are in terms of skill. People in these comments keep on saying that "She's a well trained, highly skilled and experienced duelist capable of engaging some of the greatest warriors of her era including Jedi council members of the master level." all day but not realize that she's just out of her league here. I'm not saying she's not skilled, but Kao is too good for her. Darach was dueling two of arguably the best sith master/apprentice combo of that time out of thousands of sith and only lost when he got overpowered by arguably the most prodigious sith apprentice alive. Ventress could in no way shape or form do what Kao did against them. When she has to run away from Savage Opress for goodness sakes, you can't then turn around and tell me she stands a chance at beating Darach. She couldn't even defeat Maul and Savage by herself as she and Obi-Wan fled the battle. Most of the Clone Wars era Jedi pale in comparison to the Swtor/Kotor Jedi. With that said, Kao still crushes. This actually shouldn't even be a contest.
It's not that i don't grasp their skill levels, it's that i don't underestimate Ventress and overestimate Darach in turn. You haven't actually explained why exactly she is out of her league in this contest or why Kao is too good for her to potentially defeat.
Malgus and Vindican may have been better than the majority of Sith alive at that point in history and we know Malgus at least had established his reputation as a warrior prior to the recapture of Korriban but what does that really prove? We've seen Sith of that era be defeated by non force sensitive soldiers or no name featless Jedi Knights so whilst it sounds impressive without context being leagues better than sith of that caliber isn't exactly the best thing going for either Vindican or Malgus and it's certainly something Ventress could replicate herself.
In the initial duel Kao was facing Vindican alone and whilst he was able to hold his ground i don't think anyone would disagree that Vindican did not match Kao's skill as a swordsman. But it's worth noting that despite being his inferior Vindican was able to hold his ground for an impressive period of time so even if Ventress was below him (an idea for which there's no definitive proof) why could she not hold her ground? That alone would negate the idea of Darach stomping her.
You're also glossing over the fact that in his engagement with both of the Sith Kao was armed with Satele's saberstaff, a weapon that greatly helped his ability to engage against the pair of them and not part of his standard arsenal. He would usually be limited to use of his own lightsaber alone.
People in these comments may make mention of the opponents Ventress engaged or defeated because it's relevant to the discussion. Ventress has dueled some of the greatest warriors in history and that cannot simply be overlooked. Who exactly of any note did Vindican defeat? Who of note did Malgus at this stage of his life defeat before facing Kao? Certainly nobody nearing the caliber of Anakin, Obi Wan, Kit Fisto, Plo Koon, Count Dooku etc.
I also don't understand why not continuing a duel against Savage and Darth Maul in a confined space is a bad thing? Savage may have lacked technical skill or significant refinement but he was a highly capable and skilled fighter/Jedi Killer who was able to fight and defeat Jedi council masters. He's certainly no slouch and underestimating him would never be a good thing for any opponent and lets not forget how Darach was defeated. Being bulldozed by a significantly stronger physical combatant.
Why exactly are Kotor era Jedi above the clone wars era Jedi in your eyes?
With that in mind what substance is there to the claim that Kao could crush Ventress?
You always sound pissed off lol love the content would like more regular upload but better content takes time. Anyway great video
I admire Ventress' own durability considering she suffered a crushed/broken wrist and fell from a great height from the top of the Yavin temple. She was back fighting on the front lines soon after.
Plus she was defeated by Grievous in a test for her and Durge set up by Dooku quite early into the war.
Rattataki hardiness vs Zabrak endurance, they are more balanced than I first thought physically.
Ok this is literally the first video ive ever commented on and i must firmly disagree with most of this video. While i love your videos and extensive knowledge of the much better "Legends cannon" i believe Kao is the far better duelist. To be honest there isnt much to draw from in terms of proof of power but considering he killed a Sith Lord and took on two very high level Sith combatants at the same time is nothing to sneeze at, however it still doesnt showcase the absolutes required to make assumptions on how limited his skill with combat or the force may be. Though Ventress is a force to be reckoned with, Kao was a battlemaster when that title still meant something his extensive knowledge with lightsaber combat his precognitive abilities and use of the force in between complicated fighting sequences far more impressed me more in five minutes than all the ventress related books comics and TCW tv series all together. Needless to say Kao is a long term favorite of mine so im partially biased but even so i believe without a doubt he is the victor in this match up.
At the very least i believe they are too equal in both lighsaber combat and endurance to conclude anything but a draw.
I’ve been itching to see Ventress return to the Vs. series! I just wish that she was facing a more worthy opponent:(
Also, I like the Fable music that you’ve put in the video. After recently playing the first game for the millionth time, I’m satisfied that the music is present.
Agreed, Ventress is way way above Darach. Darach doesn't have the feats to show he could contend with Ventress let alone defeat her. Ventress stomps as far as I'm concerned. A cool match would be Ventress vs Mara Jade, or Ventress vs Darth Malak.
Samuel Myth
Ventress Vs. Mara is interesting.
Now, Ventress Vs. Malak is brain-ache, imo.
Malak is the greater Force wielder in terms of knowledge, but I see Ventress taking the edge in every other major category (barring strength). However, I don’t know how Ventress would react to something like Force stun. On the other hand, I think that Ventress’s Makashi would pierce Malak’s guard before he uses his more unusual powers.
+Ki Adi Sandwich I feel Mara takes it against Ventress. Her multi-weapon offensive can really mess with Ventress and her own skill level is comparable. In force abilities, Mara's got this because in raw force power, I see her an equal or maybe > than Ventress. In terms of variety, force lightning and force stun ftw (just like Malak). Though I would be more interested in whose skill in force cloak is superior. Physically, Ventress is likely more agile but Mara has greater resiliency and endurance =>Ventress's own. I don't see Malak vs Ventress as that close honestly. Physically, Malak is tougher, stronger, and agility is comparable. Dueling wise, Malak has >developed skill but Ventress's Makashi and Jar Kai can take advantage of Malak's lackluster guard and his vulnerability to unarmed combat is something Ventress can exploit the hell out of. Force abilities is where Malak sweeps it. In terms of force power (using council forcecast system) Ventress is tier 2.5-2 for me while Malak is tier 1.5-low tier 1. He has >force power which is high enough to easily penetrate her defenses. Force lighning is something Ventress is poor against if she cant absorb it with her lightsabers, I don't think Ventress is credited with resist stun and has not demonstrated dealing with the ability which is the opening Malak can use to either kill with saber or lightning. But Ventress has greater variety of tk abilities and greater tactical usage of them. So while Ventress can contend quite well and has a shot of pulling it off, I say Malak takes this 8/10.
Ki Adi Sandwich Darach is more than a worthy opponent. He is ROTS Kenobi level. Darach stomps Ventress
Mace Fell Out The Windu! Darach is not ROTS Kenobi level by any stretch of the imagination.
can you please do luke skywalker vs count dooku
Is this video monetised? If it is, how do I get the permission to use soundtracks in monetised videos?(is it enough just to list the titles and the composers in the video/description?) Please answer.
P.S: I love the fact that there are still youtubers that enjoy the old EU.
EU all the way, fuck Disney Wars
Nice to see you back! Also like how you calmly explained why you went legends over Canon.
My prediction: Darach. Let's see how I get on.
Do you have any versus series videos including Ventress where she loses? This is not a dig or complaint, just asking.
Actually Ventress vs Sedriss
What about doing a Vs between Legends Ventress and Legends Grievous?
There was already a fight between them in a comic and grievous won
This was extremely well made. Hats off to you sir.
Happy Asanj noises
Rey would be all of them combined without any training
TrueBag PipeRock Rey could turn shit into gold and destroy Abeloth with one finger.
+SolarDragoon007 idk. I mean, Kenobi could beat Rey (if he has he highground of course), or Darth Jar Jar, or EU Admiral Ackbar.
Rob George, Rey's feminist plot armor can withstand the fury of gods.
+SolarDragon007 Damn, do we finally acknowledge that Rey is among the memetic tier Star Wars characters? Never thought Id see that happen.
Rob George She's as meme worthy as Rose, Holdo, Tinker Bell Leia, and Loser Luke Skywalker