Thanks for the explanation of bullet separation. Their reason makes sense. Like you I always load at least 3 different bullets each year to harvest deer. It’s rare that I ever recover a bullet but at least get to observe wound channel etc. Nosler AB’s always in rotation each season with one monolithic. BT’s have improved drastically from originals so Speer’s reason makes perfect sense. Thanks again
There's defiantly been a change in production with Speer. I do recall the older style projectiles vs. the newer ones. My 7mm Rem. Mag. loved them but I preferred a different type of performance. I've since sold my 7 mag for more moderately recoiling devices. Age is not kind. Thanks for the video, I like your approach. Hope you have a productive year on your hunts. Hotty Toddy!!!
The Grand Slam is one of the 1st premium bullets. Old. Like me. I've been using the 130gr in the 270 Win for 40 years. Taken antelope, deer, elk, moose, and black bear with it. Never had one fail. The front end mushrooms quickly and often doesn't survive. The rear core has always stayed in place. It's similar in design to a Remington Cor-Lokt. But it's not a perfect design, like a Nosler Partition. I have a huge stockpile of Grand Slams I bought in the 1990s. They are old school. But they always work.
My "failure" was seeing a 250 grain 338 grand slam not expand or not expand much in a white tail deer. Still got the deer from where the bullet impacted luckily
Thats pretty typical of what I would find left of the GS bullets in game back when they first came on the market. Some times I would recover the harder lead core separated from the soft aloy in the nose . Then came the barnes x, it seemed to be a slower kill but you could count on it to penetrate from stem to stern . Now the rage is all about long range shooting at game and the bullets they are marketing are even worse performers on game at ethical ranges than the ordinary cup and core we were using many years ago.
The 60% weight loss probably had something to do with the buck only making it 10 yards. My experience on whitetail is deer shot with bonded bullets in lungs run farther than deer shot with cup and core. Also for shots under 150 yards I’ll go with heavier cup and bullets you’ll rarely recover one to critique.
I can comment on the new version of the Grand Slam. 2022, elk hunting with my 270 and 150 grain grand slam. I made a. poor shot hitting the cow in the shoulder. She stumbled and slid down a snowy hill. The grand slam made a complete pass through a 294 yards. The velocity was much slower than your 130 but the cow elk is a much larger critter. The grand slams work well in my 270 so I'll stick with them.
Welp I guess I need to throw down my opinion on bullet separation. I feel it's a great thing to find just the jacket left on the far side between the meat and the hide. That tells me every ounce of energy the bullet had was absorbed into the animal and not into the dirt bank behind the animal. Thus delivering the most of the bullets terminal performance into the animal. Nosler ballistic tips at very high velocities have been my go-to for a non bonded hunting bullet for elk Black bear and deer for decades now. I just feel they are better than bonded bullets that just mushroom back and punch right thru. I like the performance of a hunting round hits like a varmint round only scaled up for the game you are after. But that's just my train of thought would love to hear from people who oppose this and think differently and why.
Just FYI I have a Barnes that had No Expansion, Just the rifling groves. I like Nosler AB and Partition. For Antelope a Cup and core bullet I like is .243 Hornady 100gr BTSP because it is accurate and beyond 100 Yards it is a great bullet.
Question.....At what point in the death of the animal did the Grand Slam fail? Core and jacket separated. Deer is dead. Switch to Impacts if you can find some.
@@TODinWY it failed because the core and jacket separated…this was confirmed as a failure by the technician I spoke with at Speer. Complete jacket and core separation is NOT supposed to happen on the Grand Slam bullet per Speer.
@ that doesn’t mean it’s not a failure, the bullet didn’t perform as it was designed by Speer so therefore they confirmed it was a failure of the bullet.
Nosler Partition is excellent at expanding And holding together… 85-90% weight retention. Larger deer would use the LRX ..90-95% retention. Just my experience…reloading 30 years… as a means to an end…hunting white tails.
That’s happened to ALL the 150 and 165 grain .308 Seirras ran at 30-06 velocities. I have a box of 1150 bulk Seirra round noses that hold together out of my 300 RUM. The light for Caliber cup and core bullets I stay away from for this very reason. I also do not get pass throughs with the light (under 180 grain) Seirra cup and core .308 projectiles. Speer are normally pretty tough projectiles. I use the 180 grain hot cores at 2900 and they hold together and exit. I do the same with testing on deer. Worked my way all the way up and down in price and quality over the decades hand loading every new bullet as soon as it comes to market. The 180 grain .308 core loct is the clear “boring” winner to me. A 180 grain Ballistic tip is a close second. I had some 180 grain .358 hot core speer that wouldn’t sear in my brass a few years back. They were out of spec. Closer to .360” plus. Speer replaced the boxes I had with correct diameter hot cores.
Had a lot # of Hornady that measurements in length and diameter were off by quite a bit plus off in weight. After contacting Hornady and speaking with tech, giving the weight, diameter and length measurements along with lot #. Hornady tech replied most folks wouldn't notice the difference anyway. I said these were to be used out to 1200 yards. Hornady offered no help. Nor did they ask for the rest of the box of bullets to be sent. This leads me to believe they knew this lot was out of spec before leaving the factory.
Just ran across your videos (this video). I shot some of the Grand Slams in 130 grain 270 Winchester in probably the late 70’s early 80’s. They were packaged as yours are in the little plastic slide top box and I had high expectations. I don’t remember the load but I am sure it was as fast as I could accurately shoot them ( in my youth, what can is say). I do remember they were so destructive on game and did not do well when hitting bone that after 4 or 5 deer I quit shooting them. These were small central Texas deer, not big critters. It was like shooting a varmint bullet. It soured me so much I bet I haven’t used but 2 or 3 Speer rifle bullets since then, none on game, and I’ve loaded and shot a lot of rounds since then. I just recently bought some Speer .257 bullets for my Roberts but don’t have much faith in them, I’ll probably stick with Barnes bullets in it for deer. But I’m going to try them. Good video, sounds like the guy you talked to was honest about it anyway, who knows they can always have a few bad ones slip by, every manufacturer does.
Upon the Inital impact on an Animals Rib cage or shoulder, probably feeling like being struch with a Sledgehammer, The bullet separating at high speed, and two pieces going " Wonkey Two directions" Doesnt matter. That changes to the internal , shrapnal effect. Yes Two leak holes are ideal .
I had herd that the older grand slam bullets had a two different hardness of lead in the core just like you was reading the newer grand slam’s has the same lead core thru the bullet
I usually hunt with ttsx but all of the “precision” guys say the bergers are amazing for accuracy. I’m kinda scared to use them on deer though because from what I understand they usually don’t exit. I’ve had bad luck with bullets not exiting. Which made the deer very hard to find without a blood trail. They usually don’t go past 100 yards but in thick woods when it’s dark they are really tough to find without a blood trail. Do you have any experience with the bergers on deer?
The berger 156s (6.5prc) and 180s(300wsm) I've used both dropped does where they stood 156 exited 180 did not. The 180 out 300 wsm looked like a bomb went off on the lungs was no lungs left
The only deer I’ve seen shot with the berger was 168 in a 7 mm rm. It’s been a handful of deer and all pass through with really large exit wounds. Not sure if it would exit on a quartering shot but broadside they did. Definitely dumping a lot of energy.
@@LoggyBayou I am until i see a lot of evidence. I love the Barnes. The 150g ttsx has dropped every deer I have shot in its tracks so far out of my 308.
I had 165gr SGK (2790fps at muzzle) do the same thing on an elk this year. Found core under far shoulder blade. Only 60gr left of it. It ranged out to 170yd shot. One shot kill,but I'm changing bullets..let the reloading games begin
My only income since 1978 has been from my hunting guide services working from the Pacific NW to Alaska. Every one of these lead core bullets will blow up loose the lead cores and cause massive meat waste. I only use for game hunting the Barns TSX - TTSX - LRX bullets now. Some of my more dangerous times in Alaska was because the client was a cheap SOB buying on sale the cheap garbage lead core bullets than failed on a bear or Yukon moose then I had to go look for the wounded animal and get charged by the animal.
if you think that speer is bad I'd like to see what you think of the ELD-X... Its general results are about half as much jacket in a torn up mess under the hide of the deer and a huge mess made out of the meat. Only thing that did more meat damage was the Accubond Long range that completely exploded on a 60 yard shot.
I can tell you from guiding clients in Alaska and the clients being a cheap SOB who buys on sale these garbage lead core bullets like from Hornaday and Nosler these bullets are lead bombs that blow up nearly on contact of a game animal. Evey brand of lead core bullets will blow up and some brands worst then others. Even those Accounts are lead bombs that blow up to peace's on Caribou and Yukon moose. The skin off the hide to find an 8-inch hole and the full ribs is blood shot from a lead core bullet blowing up! What is scarry in Alaska is the corrupted state Trooper who will write a ticket for want and waste if you leave a scrap blood shot meat or ribs and if convicted it could lead to a felony charge on you. The AK state Trooper is more than happy to write a ticket to you because they receive a percentage of the fine money the court orders you to pay.
@@Lure-Benson Thanks for the reply, "full ribs is blood shot from a lead core bullet blowing up!" exactly what I find even with small whitetails with the ELDX. Now, I did notice that the diameter of the ELDX bullet really matters a lot. The 6.5 seems to lose its core about 1/4 inch before the base of the bullet, where the 220Gr in a 300 PRC seemed to have a much more controlled destruction with lead still sitting in the bottom of the cup that was less than 1/16 inch. Counterintuitive as the 300 PRC is traveling much faster, seems to come down to the amount of lead the round can shed before it pulls it right out of the cup. I assume you use TSX or LRX solids or some sort of bonded round like the core-lok?
@@foonus406 For my rifles in 7 mm - 30 cal - 338 - 9.3 these only shoot Barns TSX - TTSX - LRX bullets for game animals. Due to US bullet makers 6.5 bullets in copper expanding bullet are only in light weight bullets so I use for the AR 10 in 6.5-284 Norma these bullets are the Norma Oryx and Vulcan 156 grain. There is a Hornaday 160 grain in 6.5 but I am too scared to use it after seeing Hornaday bullets blow up like lead bombs. Even the 223 for deer I shoot Barns TSX 60 to 70 grain bullets. The main load I use in the 9.3x62 Mauser is the Barns TSX 286 grain bullet but I do have loaded up 9.3 250 grain Swift A frames and 1 box of Norma loads of 232 grain Vulcan bullets.
I swear by the 165 grand slams I’ve still have 3 boxes of the 22lr yellow box stuff never had this many elk and wife drew a moose tag and took one with the same bullet out of her 06 but things can happen if it harvested the animal who cares what the bullet looks like after I think ppl are to hung up on omg the bullet failed I ask is the animal in your freezer they say yes I say well the bullet did its job didnt it
I would think the Speer guy would’ve offered to send you a new box of Grand Slams especially after he admitted that their bullet failed? Doesn’t say much about Speer’s customer service. Just my 2 cents anyway.
So you bought a cup and core bullet, even though you prefer solids, then when you get cup and core performance you compare it to solids and bonded bullets saying it failed??? Hahaha
@@BWAGG1990 and then you comment as if you know what you’re talking about hahaha, clearly you didn’t actually watch and listen to the video. Speer confirmed it was a bullet failure so nice try Mr Troll 🧌
I personally like most all types of bullet designs including cup and core as they all have their purpose and have their own performance charictoristic. So with that in mind, if jacket core seperation is undesireable for a certain aplication, only an idiot would choose a cup and core design. Sorry if you find that offensive but thats how it is. Personally i like cup and cores for whitetail. Always works good for me, but if you want it to stay together, choose copper or a bonded bullet. Its not fair to use a screwdriver on a nail and then say that screwdrivers suck.
Good old federal fusion is great also. Just use bonded bullets and they hold together but get great expansion
Federal Fusion is a Plated Bullet!
Thanks for the explanation of bullet separation. Their reason makes sense. Like you I always load at least 3 different bullets each year to harvest deer. It’s rare that I ever recover a bullet but at least get to observe wound channel etc. Nosler AB’s always in rotation each season with one monolithic. BT’s have improved drastically from originals so Speer’s reason makes perfect sense. Thanks again
My go to bullet trophy bonded bear claw ,2nd nosler partition
There's defiantly been a change in production with Speer. I do recall the older style projectiles vs. the newer ones. My 7mm Rem. Mag. loved them but I preferred a different type of performance. I've since sold my 7 mag for more moderately recoiling devices. Age is not kind.
Thanks for the video, I like your approach. Hope you have a productive year on your hunts. Hotty Toddy!!!
The Grand Slam is one of the 1st premium bullets. Old. Like me. I've been using the 130gr in the 270 Win for 40 years. Taken antelope, deer, elk, moose, and black bear with it. Never had one fail. The front end mushrooms quickly and often doesn't survive. The rear core has always stayed in place. It's similar in design to a Remington Cor-Lokt. But it's not a perfect design, like a Nosler Partition.
I have a huge stockpile of Grand Slams I bought in the 1990s. They are old school. But they always work.
Bonded or copper is where it’s at. Field testing a gel blocks have proved this.
Copper is for commiefornians
My "failure" was seeing a 250 grain 338 grand slam not expand or not expand much in a white tail deer. Still got the deer from where the bullet impacted luckily
Love your videos! Thanks for the info, keep it up!
If ya killed the deer, it did what it was supposed to do. Lol
Sounds like a good call to Speer
Thats pretty typical of what I would find left of the GS bullets in game back when they first came on the market. Some times I would recover the harder lead core separated from the soft aloy in the nose . Then came the barnes x, it seemed to be a slower kill but you could count on it to penetrate from stem to stern . Now the rage is all about long range shooting at game and the bullets they are marketing are even worse performers on game at ethical ranges than the ordinary cup and core we were using many years ago.
The 60% weight loss probably had something to do with the buck only making it 10 yards. My experience on whitetail is deer shot with bonded bullets in lungs run farther than deer shot with cup and core. Also for shots under 150 yards I’ll go with heavier cup and bullets you’ll rarely recover one to critique.
From Speer, I prefer the Gold Dots.
I can comment on the new version of the Grand Slam. 2022, elk hunting with my 270 and 150 grain grand slam. I made a. poor shot hitting the cow in the shoulder. She stumbled and slid down a snowy hill. The grand slam made a complete pass through a 294 yards. The velocity was much slower than your 130 but the cow elk is a much larger critter. The grand slams work well in my 270 so I'll stick with them.
Welp I guess I need to throw down my opinion on bullet separation. I feel it's a great thing to find just the jacket left on the far side between the meat and the hide. That tells me every ounce of energy the bullet had was absorbed into the animal and not into the dirt bank behind the animal. Thus delivering the most of the bullets terminal performance into the animal.
Nosler ballistic tips at very high velocities have been my go-to for a non bonded hunting bullet for elk Black bear and deer for decades now. I just feel they are better than bonded bullets that just mushroom back and punch right thru. I like the performance of a hunting round hits like a varmint round only scaled up for the game you are after. But that's just my train of thought would love to hear from people who oppose this and think differently and why.
Just FYI I have a Barnes that had No Expansion, Just the rifling groves. I like Nosler AB and Partition. For Antelope a Cup and core bullet I like is .243 Hornady 100gr BTSP because it is accurate and beyond 100 Yards it is a great bullet.
Question.....At what point in the death of the animal did the Grand Slam fail? Core and jacket separated. Deer is dead. Switch to Impacts if you can find some.
@@TODinWY it failed because the core and jacket separated…this was confirmed as a failure by the technician I spoke with at Speer. Complete jacket and core separation is NOT supposed to happen on the Grand Slam bullet per Speer.
@@alabamareloader But there is NOTHING to STOP it from happening under the right set of circumstances.
@ that doesn’t mean it’s not a failure, the bullet didn’t perform as it was designed by Speer so therefore they confirmed it was a failure of the bullet.
Nosler Partition is excellent at expanding And holding together… 85-90% weight retention. Larger deer would use the LRX ..90-95% retention. Just my experience…reloading 30 years… as a means to an end…hunting white tails.
That’s happened to ALL the 150 and 165 grain .308 Seirras ran at 30-06 velocities. I have a box of 1150 bulk Seirra round noses that hold together out of my 300 RUM. The light for Caliber cup and core bullets I stay away from for this very reason. I also do not get pass throughs with the light (under 180 grain) Seirra cup and core .308 projectiles. Speer are normally pretty tough projectiles. I use the 180 grain hot cores at 2900 and they hold together and exit. I do the same with testing on deer. Worked my way all the way up and down in price and quality over the decades hand loading every new bullet as soon as it comes to market. The 180 grain .308 core loct is the clear “boring” winner to me. A 180 grain Ballistic tip is a close second. I had some 180 grain .358 hot core speer that wouldn’t sear in my brass a few years back. They were out of spec. Closer to .360” plus. Speer replaced the boxes I had with correct diameter hot cores.
I also have had a lot of the ballistic tips do the same. Especially when I run them fast.
Had a lot # of Hornady that measurements in length and diameter were off by quite a bit plus off in weight. After contacting Hornady and speaking with tech, giving the weight, diameter and length measurements along with lot #. Hornady tech replied most folks wouldn't notice the difference anyway. I said these were to be used out to 1200 yards. Hornady offered no help. Nor did they ask for the rest of the box of bullets to be sent. This leads me to believe they knew this lot was out of spec before leaving the factory.
Just ran across your videos (this video). I shot some of the Grand Slams in 130 grain 270 Winchester in probably the late 70’s early 80’s. They were packaged as yours are in the little plastic slide top box and I had high expectations. I don’t remember the load but I am sure it was as fast as I could accurately shoot them ( in my youth, what can is say). I do remember they were so destructive on game and did not do well when hitting bone that after 4 or 5 deer I quit shooting them. These were small central Texas deer, not big critters. It was like shooting a varmint bullet. It soured me so much I bet I haven’t used but 2 or 3 Speer rifle bullets since then, none on game, and I’ve loaded and shot a lot of rounds since then. I just recently bought some Speer .257 bullets for my Roberts but don’t have much faith in them, I’ll probably stick with Barnes bullets in it for deer. But I’m going to try them. Good video, sounds like the guy you talked to was honest about it anyway, who knows they can always have a few bad ones slip by, every manufacturer does.
Separation is not good. I like Speer products especially the gold dots.
I like federal terminal accent. Or federal edge TLR projectiles for hand loads
Upon the Inital impact on an Animals Rib cage or shoulder, probably feeling like being struch with a Sledgehammer, The bullet separating at high speed, and two pieces going " Wonkey Two directions" Doesnt matter. That changes to the internal , shrapnal effect. Yes Two leak holes are ideal .
Do they still have a mechanical lock in the jacket? I know the older ones did but they changed the design
Wow. Good for you!
I had herd that the older grand slam bullets had a two different hardness of lead in the core just like you was reading the newer grand slam’s has the same lead core thru the bullet
I usually hunt with ttsx but all of the “precision” guys say the bergers are amazing for accuracy.
I’m kinda scared to use them on deer though because from what I understand they usually don’t exit. I’ve had bad luck with bullets not exiting. Which made the deer very hard to find without a blood trail. They usually don’t go past 100 yards but in thick woods when it’s dark they are really tough to find without a blood trail.
Do you have any experience with the bergers on deer?
I don’t but plan to test them out and report back on my experience.
The berger 156s (6.5prc) and 180s(300wsm) I've used both dropped does where they stood 156 exited 180 did not. The 180 out 300 wsm looked like a bomb went off on the lungs was no lungs left
The only deer I’ve seen shot with the berger was 168 in a 7 mm rm. It’s been a handful of deer and all pass through with really large exit wounds. Not sure if it would exit on a quartering shot but broadside they did. Definitely dumping a lot of energy.
Stick with Barnes.
@@LoggyBayou I am until i see a lot of evidence. I love the Barnes. The 150g ttsx has dropped every deer I have shot in its tracks so far out of my 308.
🤘🏼👍🏼💪🏼🤘🏼💪🏼👍🏼
I had 165gr SGK (2790fps at muzzle) do the same thing on an elk this year. Found core under far shoulder blade. Only 60gr left of it. It ranged out to 170yd shot. One shot kill,but I'm changing bullets..let the reloading games begin
My only income since 1978 has been from my hunting guide services working from the Pacific NW to Alaska.
Every one of these lead core bullets will blow up loose the lead cores and cause massive meat waste.
I only use for game hunting the Barns TSX - TTSX - LRX bullets now.
Some of my more dangerous times in Alaska was because the client was a cheap SOB buying on sale the cheap garbage lead core bullets than failed on a bear or Yukon moose then I had to go look for the wounded animal and get charged by the animal.
if you think that speer is bad I'd like to see what you think of the ELD-X... Its general results are about half as much jacket in a torn up mess under the hide of the deer and a huge mess made out of the meat.
Only thing that did more meat damage was the Accubond Long range that completely exploded on a 60 yard shot.
I can tell you from guiding clients in Alaska and the clients being a cheap SOB who buys on sale these garbage lead core bullets like from Hornaday and Nosler these bullets are lead bombs that blow up nearly on contact of a game animal.
Evey brand of lead core bullets will blow up and some brands worst then others.
Even those Accounts are lead bombs that blow up to peace's on Caribou and Yukon moose.
The skin off the hide to find an 8-inch hole and the full ribs is blood shot from a lead core bullet blowing up!
What is scarry in Alaska is the corrupted state Trooper who will write a ticket for want and waste if you leave a scrap blood shot meat or ribs and if convicted it could lead to a felony charge on you.
The AK state Trooper is more than happy to write a ticket to you because they receive a percentage of the fine money the court orders you to pay.
@@Lure-Benson Thanks for the reply,
"full ribs is blood shot from a lead core bullet blowing up!" exactly what I find even with small whitetails with the ELDX.
Now, I did notice that the diameter of the ELDX bullet really matters a lot. The 6.5 seems to lose its core about 1/4 inch before the base of the bullet, where the 220Gr in a 300 PRC seemed to have a much more controlled destruction with lead still sitting in the bottom of the cup that was less than 1/16 inch.
Counterintuitive as the 300 PRC is traveling much faster, seems to come down to the amount of lead the round can shed before it pulls it right out of the cup.
I assume you use TSX or LRX solids or some sort of bonded round like the core-lok?
@@foonus406 For my rifles in 7 mm - 30 cal - 338 - 9.3 these only shoot Barns TSX - TTSX - LRX bullets for game animals.
Due to US bullet makers 6.5 bullets in copper expanding bullet are only in light weight bullets so I use for the AR 10 in 6.5-284 Norma these bullets are the Norma Oryx and Vulcan 156 grain.
There is a Hornaday 160 grain in 6.5 but I am too scared to use it after seeing Hornaday bullets blow up like lead bombs.
Even the 223 for deer I shoot Barns TSX 60 to 70 grain bullets.
The main load I use in the 9.3x62 Mauser is the Barns TSX 286 grain bullet but I do have loaded up 9.3 250 grain Swift A frames and 1 box of Norma loads of 232 grain Vulcan bullets.
I'm surprised that you are surprised that a skinny bullet doing Mach 2.5 seperates.🤔
I swear by the 165 grand slams I’ve still have 3 boxes of the 22lr yellow box stuff never had this many elk and wife drew a moose tag and took one with the same bullet out of her 06 but things can happen if it harvested the animal who cares what the bullet looks like after I think ppl are to hung up on omg the bullet failed I ask is the animal in your freezer they say yes I say well the bullet did its job didnt it
Agree 💯 about Barnes.I hunt with them almost exclusively now!
I would think the Speer guy would’ve offered to send you a new box of Grand Slams especially after he admitted that their bullet failed? Doesn’t say much about Speer’s customer service. Just my 2 cents anyway.
I certainly agree with you!! I would have had a box in the mail that afternoon.
So you bought a cup and core bullet, even though you prefer solids, then when you get cup and core performance you compare it to solids and bonded bullets saying it failed??? Hahaha
@@BWAGG1990 and then you comment as if you know what you’re talking about hahaha, clearly you didn’t actually watch and listen to the video. Speer confirmed it was a bullet failure so nice try Mr Troll 🧌
I personally like most all types of bullet designs including cup and core as they all have their purpose and have their own performance charictoristic. So with that in mind, if jacket core seperation is undesireable for a certain aplication, only an idiot would choose a cup and core design. Sorry if you find that offensive but thats how it is. Personally i like cup and cores for whitetail. Always works good for me, but if you want it to stay together, choose copper or a bonded bullet. Its not fair to use a screwdriver on a nail and then say that screwdrivers suck.
The bullet didn’t do what it was designed to do. Definitely a fail