High Hopes | Focke-Wulf Ta 152H
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 20 сен 2023
- In the summer of 1941, the newly introduced DeHavilland Mosquito was making its first reconnaissance sorties, demonstrating a grave problem for the Luftwaffe. Operating at high speeds and altitudes, the aircraft was almost untouchable after it had reached its destination, and entered a shallow, fast descent for home.
The only two fighters of consequence employed by the Luftwaffe, the Bf 109 and Fw 190, were effective low to medium altitude fighters, though their performance was poor at the altitudes the Mosquito flew at. With the US entry in the war, the problem became graver, as they possessed specialized high altitude fighter and bomber designs which might threaten the Luftwaffe’s hold over much of Europe. Even more concerning was the fear that the RAF would be operating the Vickers Wellington V bomber, which was reportedly capable of operating at an almost untouchable altitude of 12 km. They never entered service, but the growing high altitude disparity would see the creation of the Höhenjäger, or high altitude fighter program.
If you liked this video, please consider donating on Patreon or Paypal!
Patreon: / tankartfund
Paypal: www.paypal.com/paypalme/tanke...
Article: plane-encyclopedia.com/ww2/fo...
Sources:
Primary:
Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment Boscombe Down Spitfire F. Mk. 21 LA.187 (Griffon 61) Climb and Level Speed Trials. 10 October 1945.
Einmotorige Jäger: Leistungsdaten, 1.10.44
Ersatzteil-Liste TA 152. Konstruktionsgruppe 7 Triebwerksanlage. Focke-Wulf Flugzeugbau G.M.B.H. Bremen.
Fighter Offensive Performance at Altitude Model P-47N-5RE Engine P&W R-2800-73 GP=45:1 Propeller-4 Blades- 13’0” DIA. (Curtis 836) War Emergency- 2800/2800 S.L. to Critical Altitude G.W.=13962 LBS. Republic Aviation Corporation. Farmingdale L.I., New York.
Horizontalgeschwindigkeit über der Flughöhe mit Sonderleistung. Leistungsvergleich Fw 190 - Ta 152. Focke-Wulfe Flugzeugbau G.M.B.H. 3.1.45
P-51B-15-NA 43-24777 (Packard Merlin V-1650-7) Performance Tests on P-38J, P-47D and P-51B Airplanes Tested with 44-1 Fuel. (GRADE 104/150). 15 May, 1944.
Smith F., M.A. and Brotherton J. Note on the performance in flight of the German jet-propelled aircraft Messerschmitt 262, Heinkel 162, and Arado 234. Royal Aircraft Establishment, Farnborough. October 1945.
Secondary:
Brown, Eric Melrose. Wings of the Luftwaffe. Hikoki, 2010.
Douglas, Calum E. Secret Horsepower Race: Second World War Fighter Aircraft Engine Development on the Western Front. TEMPEST, 2020.
Green, William. The Warplanes of the Third Reich. Doubleday & Company. 1970.
Harmann, Dietmar. Focke-Wulf Ta 152 the Story of the Luftwaffe’s Late-war, High-Altitude Fighter. Schiffer Military History. 1999.
Smith, J. & Creek, Eddie. Focke-Wulf Fw 190, Vol. 3: 1944-1945. Specialty Pr Pub & Wholesalers. 2015.
Smith, J. & Creek, Eddie. Me 262 Volume Two. Crecy Publishing. 2007.
Weal, John. Focke-Wulf Fw 190 Aces of the Western Front. Osprey Publishing. 1996.
Discord Invite Link: / discord
Plane Encyclopedia RUclips: @PlaneEncyclopediaYT
Tank Encyclopedia RUclips: @TanksEncyclopediaYT
Our website: plane-encyclopedia.com
Our sister site Tank Encyclopedia: tanks-encyclopedia.com
Article by: Henry H
Script by: Henry H
Narrated by HalRoller
Edited by Brancovich
Sound edited by Gabe 
Авто/Мото
I did the flight modelling for a Ta152C mod in the SAS version of IL2:1946, for which I spent about a year of research that included getting in touch with one of the renowned specialist Ta152 authors Dietmar Hermann and gained some excellent insights incorporated in my modelling, alongside the many other sources I looked into at specialist bookshops.
I would make some corrections, to my understanding. The Jumo 213 was being developed specifically with the very complex supercharging system characteristic of the 213E from the very beginning and the 213A was a follow on from this, it wasn't the other way around. In order to speed it into production it was decided an interim version with a much simpler supercharger would be used as issues were apparent in development of the multiple stage version, such as unreliable kommandogerät gear shifting in the upper stages which could overstress the engine. The Jumo 213 was thus delayed and a simpler version, the 213A was then proposed, but Kurt Tank himself had already decided he preferred the Daimler engine for this reason at this point, which was late 42 to early 43 and he was quite vocal about it.
All Ta152 had the MW50 boost system fitted. Pilot accounts include use of the system as well as GM-1. The Ta152H0R11 preproduction aircraft used Fw190A6 wings lengthened so did not have the fuel tanks. They did have both fuselage fuel tanks in common with the Fw190. The instability issue came about when an ETC500 bomb rack was fitted, which was an RLM requirement from February 1943 for all new fighter models and both fuselage tanks and the MW50 tank was filled and a GM-1 system was fitted, which added another 300kg all by itself and that threw the CoG just all the way out and made the aircraft ridiculously unstable and this would only get worse in the production model when the fuel tanks were fitted to the wings. But this was discovered during the prototyping phase in 43 and the solution had already been arranged for the deletion of one of the fuselage fuel tanks in production models. This meant the extended range of the Ta152 over the Fw190 would not be achieved as had been proposed with two fuselage and two wing tanks and instead the Ta152 would only carry marginally more fuel than a regular Fw190 with one fuselage tank and two small wing tanks. This would be in addition to the MW50 tank and GM-1 fitment, together with an ETC500 wet piped centre store and the aircraft remained stable, barely but it was workable. In the meantime the preproduction aircraft despite lacking wing tanks were given a liquid stores restriction such as described in the video which included leaving a fuselage tank and the MW50 tank empty if the ETC rack was fitted, although IIRC the GM-1 system was fitted.
The problem with GM-1 wasn't not being fitted, it was that it completely screwed with the kommandogerät of the Jumo 213E motor and the gearshifts in the upper stage became completely unreliable when trying to punch into the 12-14,000 metre flight regime the aircraft was supposed to be capable of as a high-powered interceptor. And it wasn't the only problem at high altitude, the pressurised cockpit system was so rudimentary at that stage of technology for a mass-produced fighter, essentially using slave labour that it was also, completely unreliable and so very few actual accounts of reaching the 14,500m combat ceiling were ever recorded, most attempts resulting in the pilot losing consciousness before reaching 12,000m. This, in fact resulted in a flight ceiling restriction during service trials of 10,500m for pilot safety for both JG301 and Jv44. The Messerschmitt Me109 could fly this high and that's also the altitude a Ta152C using the Daimler engine could accomplish some 760km/h using MW50 with overboost since the throttle altitude of the DB603LA is 11,500m and that's just using a single speed supercharger with two stages because it just has that much swept capacity to pump air with and a really big supercharger, really big. Tank liked the Daimler better, I do too. The Jumo/GM-1 idea was crap and the 14,500m requirement was only achievable using GM-1 in the Jumo. The supercharger system was way too complicated. The Daimler just used big gigantic pistons and a massive supercharger casing with one extra stage to do the trick. It worked. It was simple.
But the whole thing about the Jumo motor, where it actually shines is at 7-8000 metres and people don't realise this. They never question why was JG301 freijäger patrol height specifically assigned at 7000 metres? The Jumo has 1800 horsepower at this height just out of the box, no special boost, no special conditions, it's just the operational regime at military power and totally reliable. That's what the trick supercharger system that barely worked did for you. Almost nothing on the planet had 1800hp at 7-8000m. It would climb at that height like you were doing aerobatics just above an aerodrome at low altitude in a biplane, it is that much power and prop bite. At 7-8000m the Ta152H was absolute king of the skies. Not 14,000m, not 5,000m, not even 10,000m. Although mind you, and this was remarkable, it was still one of the fastest of anything all the way from sea level to 11,500m and there's no arguing that. Just it really ruled 7-8,000m and that's the Jumo 213E (or F).
Dietmar Hermann assured me however the RLM had planned on replacing the Jumo Ta152H1 with a DB603LA powered Ta152H2 had the war continued. The Daimler was just better. And the realistic Höhenjäger extreme performance flight regime with all this in hindsight by 1945 was in fact 9,500-11,500m. Not 14,000 metres. That was reality.
Now, if only there were engine management systems or lack of them in those flight simulations.
Harmann's book claims the Ta 152H preproduction aircraft didn't have the boost systems and the ETC 504 being used in the place of the 500, which prevented a worsening of the planes stability. He also mentions 'serious problems' with the installation of the GM-1 system, but only mentions stability. Its an older book, however, so he might have a lot more information that's unpublished. I'll make some additions to the comparison section of the article, but for the reasons around GM-1's absence, do you have any further notes that might shed further light on the subject?
The Germans lack of high octane gasoline (petrol) was a MAJOR factor in the performance of German vs. Allied aircraft, leading to many short cuts and compromises when developing their aircraft.
You could put it the other way around. The German engines had larger volumes from the start and could thus deliver the HP on lower octane fuel. The Allied engines would have been much inferior without the manufacture of iso-octane (in the USA - transported with Norwegian help?). 100 octane fuel was first used by the RAF in the BOB. The German use of methanol late in the war,, was made by diverting synthesis gas used in the Fischer-Tropsch process making distiillates (e.g. jet engine fuel). @@weffyj6427
> Almost nothing on the planet had 1800hp at 7-8000m.
Not the Thunderbolts? There were insane numbers of Thunderbolts already flying at the time this was basically just a prototype.
I still think the H model is one of the best looking planes I've ever seen. Great video.
Absolutely. It’s just beautiful.
We don't need flying replicas when you could make a 1/10 scale RC Aircraft without making a 3/4 scale Experimental Aircraft...@@AmericasChoice
@@AmericasChoice
G'day,
As it happens,
Munchiekins...;
Anthropogenic
Global Warming...
Says that because the Biosphere is no longer of
Furnishing any reliable
Environmental Surpluses available to be
Overharvested & brought to
Market...,
Therefore the
Global Trading EcoGnomie is
Doomed to
Implode - as the ever
Increasing frequency & intensity of
Record-breaking
Extreme Weather Events
Deconstructs every
National EcoGnomie
On
Planet Earth.
Such being the
Current situation confronting
Humanity...;
The actual
LIKELIHOOD of
Anybody being in possession of sufficient
SPARE money and resources required to
Recreate a Ta-152, and paperwork it until it became lawful to levitate while sitting within the thing....;
And the chance of their
Wanting
To throw so much
Spare time, money, and resources - as the
Global EcoGnomie dies off all around us...
Is
ZERO.
Not even Kermit Weeks is rich and bored enough to be trying to
REPLICATE a
Fw Ta-152....; and he's about the only
Candidate even remotely in the
Ballpark of being
Likely to be able to if they cared to
Try.
He inherited a
Gas & Oil
Fortune in the 1970s,
As a teenager ;
And ever since he's been trying to spend it all,
On
Wildly expensive
Restoration and
Operation of a fleet of
70+ Rare Vintage
Aeroplanes.
And he's not doing a Ta-152...!
Consider yourself
Corrected.
Such is life,
Have a good one...
Stay safe.
;-p
Ciao !
@@AmericasChoice I guess there also no detail photos available? In Germany a replica of the Dornier DO X flying boat is in progress. There were no longer any construction plans that would have made such a replica possible. The team dug through archives, looking for photos of the original Do X
They came across almost 1,000 photos from the 1920s that documented the construction of the first Do X Now they calculate construction documents from these photos.
Same here
I'm German and my father was a Nightfighter pilot, he also flew the He-219 in test flights and he told a lot of this dark time.
If you consider that Germany didn't have any gasoline with a high octane number, I don't know why, it's all the more impressive that we were able to use chemistry to create such flight performance with a piston engine with only 33 liters of displacement (Jumo213). Sometimes I have the feeling that the German arms industry was deliberately not activated, despite the lack of certain raw materials.
Before Milch took charge, Udet was messing about, going to parties and delegating his duties to others. Milch spent all of 1942 fixing the inefficiencies of German air industry, and for 1943 everything was betting on the increase of resources resultant from Fall Blau, which didn't happen.
Read Irving's Rise and Fall of the Luftwaffe, it's a good book.
Personally, I don't like the Uhu, it's too heavy, expensive, and alien-looking. The Ju88 G6 does everything and more.
@@mauriciomorais7818 Thank you very much Sir and yes Udet and Göring were absolutely incompetent people. If General Wever hadn't had a diedly accident in 1937, we would have had four-engine bombers for strategic warfare in time. The USA and England consistently pursued this goal because they recognized the value such a weapon would have. You just have to understand something about physics, but Hitler, Göring and Udet lacked any ability to judge. Hitler wanted to be an artist...LOL...The same applied to the completely new radio measurement (Radar) technology, which did not receive nearly as much funding as the British, although we had a clear lead at the beginning.
See also Bruneval Raid! Thank you for your hint Sir... 👌
Political interference. Just look at the Fw-187. It was 60km/h faster than a Bf-109 when the 109 was powered by the same engine, the Jumo engine. They said they did not need a 2 engine longer range fighter.
But then they took on the much slower Bf-110 and it got mauled in the Battle of Britain. They used the 110 as the 109 lacked the range to support the bombers over England.
@@jeffnic3116 My father flew the 110 as a nightfighter 2te NJG 3 in Denmark ( forget it) and yes I agree with you. Thank you Sir !
@@stubi1103 My grandfather returned to Berlin, I think 10 years after the war.
He had to peel potato's for the Russian army. When he returned to Berlin, he went to the apartment where he lived, to see if it was still standing. He and his wife (who was raised near Konigsberg) did not recognize each other, she thought he was the guy that delivered coal.
My mother born in 1940, never knew her dad till then.
When Berlin started to get bombed, my mother was sent to stay with her grandmother in East Prussia. When the Russians closed in, she and her grandmother fled by foot, along the coast of the Ostsee .
From time to time Russian aircraft would dive onto them to strafe, and they would flee into the forest.
As for me, we were in a undeclared on off war in Angola against the communists, the Afrika Korps was present from the DDR, mainly to counter our airforce.
Back in the 70s I had the Revell FW-190A, the MPC FW-190D, and the Frog TA-152H, all in 1/72 scale.
All of them were beautiful aircraft. The TA-152H with its long wings really stood out in my collection.
All of those were awful models. When I got Hasegawa’s FW 190 kit I blew all the others up with fire crackers.
Back in the 80s ... otherwise almost the same. Ta-152H rebranded under Revell and Italeri 190A & D. Revell's 190A was a bad kit, the Airfix version being more accurate in scale.
@@ottovonbismarck2443
Hawsegawa’s original mold had a ton of detail for the time but got the wing dihedral wrong and it’s landing gear always was off and Airfix’s Fw mold was a little heavy handed but had more accurate appearance. Since then both companies have updated their offerings and both make quite nice kits.
@@bradywomack9751 My mistake. The one I mean was actually a 190G long range Jabo with wing tanks and a bomb (essentially an A3 but not quite). Hasegawa wasn't all gold back then, but they were certainly an improvement over many Revell kits, especially the ones that weren't ex-Monogram.
Airfix 190 (and Spitfire !) were as you said crude but more accurate in appearance. Went together like a dream, blindfolded. Can't be said of all their old kits; the 109 was terrible. I still have an old unbuilt Sunderland lying around somewhere ... Probably worth a little fortune.
For some nostalgy, throw in Matchbox.
These panel lines were WW1 trenches, but the shape was very accurate.
Happy memories, cheers !
Today, the ZOKEI-MURA Ta 152 models from Japan are at a very different level than any of that old stuff. Truly highflyer models. I find it interesting how also people in Japan consider the Tank designed aircraft the best looking fighters of WWII. I saw them at about age 12, and never looked back 😊
Kurt tank's designs are easily my favorite ww2 airplanes.
Nach Reschkes Aussagen, war die TA 152 allen alliierten Flugzeugtypen überlegen. Er sagte auch, das die Spitfire und Mustang schon ein gutes Flugzeug waren, aber gegen die TA 152 Chancenlos war. Danke für den Bericht
... er sagte, dass* die Spitfire und Mustang gute* Flugzeuge*, aber gegen die Ta-152 chancenlos* waren*.
Chancenlos? Ich denke das ist abhängig von der Höhe, in grosser Höhe sicherlich aber in mittlerer oder niedriger Höhe wage ich das zu bezweifeln.
Luftkampf mit Spitfire LF MkIX vs Ta 152H in niedriger Höhe wäre wohl zugunsten der Spit ausgegangen.
If it was capable of adequate performance this rough state, we should be glad it was too late to have been refined into a proper combat aircraft
For a failure, the t 152 must have been a very good fighter. The few pilots, which had the chance to fly them, where not just satisfied, they were glad with this plane.
Reschke said, the other plane crashed because of the lack of fuel.
He also said, he was also very happy with his f 190 D and had some kills over mustangs, with ease.
He was astonished about the wrecking of the last t 152 models, because he was sure, that they had been superior about the mustang and also the newest spitfires.
FW 190D and the Ta152H1 a C3 are my favorite planes. Both beautiful and menacing...
I would say the Ta-152H is one of the best looking fighters of the war, just a sleek and sexy plane.
I believe in Pierre Closterman’s book The Big Show , he considered these aircraft a big threat.
They were often anticipating advanced enemy aircraft from intelligence briefings, the actual contacts could have been quite rare and Pierre often described actions involving his colleagues where he was not present.
Unparalleled performance at high altitude is an overstatenent. High octane fuel fed to dual stage supercharged allied engines in P-47 and P-51 make them extremely hard (impossible when speaking about germans) to outperform.
I find it interesting that the 190-A, and [its] Frankenstein stepchild, the Ta-152, are both handsome aircraft. The 190 has chunky, purposeful look that seems just right from any angle. The 152 has a more ethereal, yet still menacing quality. I find it a bit awkward from some angles (the kink to the rear fuselage is a bit clumsy, IMO), but it is more graceful than such an amalgamation has any right to be.
Brilliant work Herr Tank.
... its* stepchild (it's = it is)
@@einundsiebenziger5488oh shut up
The TA152 was one of the fastest operational prop driven planes built during the war. Just sorry it was again, too little, too late.
It was probably the best looking fighter of WW2!
The Ta 152 was supposed to look after the 45,000ft down to 35,000 ft of upside down wedding cake then the Fw 190-D and Bf 109 K looked after the the 35,000ft down to the 20,000 ft.
And then the Bf 109 G-10, and Fw 190 A8 looked after anything under 20,000ft.
Meanwhile the Me 262 could do what it wanted with the Piston engine fighters defending their ability to take of and land......that was the theory....but Germany only managed to get 300 Me 262 into combat even though it had manufactured 1,200.....No Gas and No Pilots!
and limited reliability, very very poor logistics, plus a lack of spare parts
I had heard it was the B-29 that was the driver for the Ta-152 h . The 29 flew very fast and very high and carried a lot of weapons.
No, it was the challenge of the Mosquito in particular, and broad high altitude combat in general.
@@AmericasChoiceIt was not designed to counter the B29 as you claimed.
The B-29 wasn't used enough in Europe for that to be reason. The Germans wouldn't have had enough encounters with B-29s to have any need to design a new fighter to deal with them, since by the time the B-29 squadrons were ready for operations there the war in Europe was essentially over and were transferred to the Pacific.
@@Combatpzman The B 29 was never used in Europe. That decision was made in 1943.
While it is true that the B-29 was never used in Europe, there was a B-29 sent to England to check out possible bases. This convinced the Nazis that it was coming to Europe and thus the TA-152@@gswombat
2:07 “pressurized canopy” Could it be pressurized cabin?
This is my favorite aircraft of all. I actually have over $1000.00 worth is FW-190 ~ TA-152 series of aircraft reference materials, and probably a model of every version released. [ possibly 50???]
I say that to preface my interest and knowledge. At 70 years of age, I also have been a licensed Private Pilot for close to 50 years.
While WAY TO SHORT , it is succinct and VERY WELL DONE. I knew almost all of what you presented, but there was enough "new" as well as your ASSESSMENT of the issues to REALLY stand out.
Frankly, yours is the best video on my Sturmvogel that I've seen, and I'd love to see a part deux to expand on some areas, as this aircraft reflected the insanity of the RLM and aircraft development ,especially at the end.
Well done, well done indeed! If it was an airplane, even Winkle would agree with my assessment!!!
However, weirdly enough, the PRETTIEST fighter of WW2 remains the Spitfire Mk 24......no other aircraft has the aerodynamic lines as she does.
Recently subscribed, love this channel and the work that goes into these videos! I would love to see a video on the D.520! I think it's one of the most beautiful fighters ever built
One of my favorite WW2 aircraft (I think the 190D9 is just bit more appealing looks wise). I discovered the TA-152 years ago when I was building (or trying to ) RC Scale Aircraft (I've still got plans for a 1/5 scale version). As a scale modeler I've got a 1/32 TA152-H0 in my stash right now...and will probably build it next year (or the year after). Thanks for an excellent video. Earned you a sub.
As an engineer I have a hard time believing that GM-1 or MW-50 loading affected balance to the point the plane was dangerous or unflyable. This was a well-known aircraft body to Tank and when he lengthened the wings and fuselage I'm positive he could do trivially calculations to have these loads balance safely. The first thing you'd worry about in such a redesign is figuring out where the balance would move when fuel, ammo, and the additives were full or empty.
In any case, the loading issues were reportedly very bad and a special ballast kit was produced at the very end of the war to try and address the problem. The P-51 was redesigned to accommodate a rear fuselage tank, and when that tank was filled the aircraft had to be flown under a very strict aerobatic restrictions. The Ta 152H likely encountered a similar problem when they not only tried to install a large mixture tank rear of the cockpit, but also wing fuel stores and tanks for MW50. You could use each of these systems without issue individually, but all at once seems to have been unmanageable.
@@henryh8357 > The P-51 was redesigned to accommodate a rear fuselage tank, and when that tank was filled the aircraft had to be flown under a very strict aerobatic restrictions
That wasn't a nose-to-tail total redesign like the 152. That was just a band-aid solution to get some more range from the plane without making the assembly lines stop and without making all the spare parts around the world out of date.
> The Ta 152H likely encountered a similar problem when they not only tried to install a large mixture tank rear of the cockpit
The 152 was designed from the start for this. Tank had carte blanche to alter the 190 as much as he needed to.
> also wing fuel stores and tanks for MW50. You could use each of these systems without issue individually, but all at once seems to have been unmanageable.
BS. For a start, wing tanks don't affect balance vis a vis center of lift because by definition they're ON the center of lift. So they contribute ZERO to supposed unmanageability. If the plane was ever unmanageable it'd be due to stores too far aft and far forward.
I'm not saying I know for a fact how the plane's stores were distributed. I'm just saying that if you want me to believe this, you need to explain WHY a plane that could be totally re-designed from 190 into 152 and was already changing so much would have been built to have these tanks dangerously astern. If you don't have such an explanation I don't really care what else you have to say.
@@lqr824 He didn't have carte-blanche to alter as much as he wanted, the 152H was a compromise design between the Fw 190 and the canceled Ta 153. On top of that the prototyping phase was rushed and the early loss of the first and second prototypes seriously hurt the project. Tank was working in very difficult circumstances in regards to time and resources. The MW50 tanks were fine on their own and could be used without issue with the additional wing fuel stores, it was mainly the 85 liter GM-1 installation rear of the pilot that caused issues. GM-1 was forbidden to be used in conjunction with MW50 or the wing tanks, and required ballasting and fuselage fuel load restrictions for (planned) operational use because it caused serious stability issues. Those aren't my opinions, those were the Luftwaffe's operational restrictions for the aircraft. Tank might have resolved the issue had the project gone better, but he lost three of the four months he had to test the aircraft before it entered pre-production after the first and second prototypes crashed. The simple truth is that he plane had unresolved weight distribution issues because it was effectively unfinished.
@@henryh8357 make up your mind. First you said using the GM1 and MW50 together was the problem. Now you're agreeing with me that the MW50 was fine, and changed your tune to say the problem was the GM1. If your reference indeed backs you up NOW, that still doesn't make you right BEFORE when you were claiming something totally different. Do you not have anything better to do than lie on the internet to complete strangers?!
@@lqr824 "when they not only tried to install a large mixture tank rear of the cockpit, but also wing fuel stores and tanks for MW50". The installation of the GM-1 bottles caused weight distribution issues by itself, necessitating fuselage fuel restrictions and a ballast kit to make safe use of it. The installation of the bag tanks in the wings and the MW50 stores exacerbated the problem and were not permitted to be used with GM-1 at all. I could've phrased it better, but that is how it was. The full set of boost systems had such adverse effects on stability that they were not permitted to be used together.
First time watcher here. Very good video thank you. Subscribed!
Thanks for this one I didn't know much about this model
The parking options in front of the RLM building looks amazing
Reschke thought his ‘Ta’ could not just hold it’s own, it was his life insurance, ‘House hoch’ above his opponents. I trust the commentary of the pilots in combat at the time, to be honest.
... hold its* own (it's = it is), haushoch*
@@einundsiebenziger5488yes, he said his ‚Ta‘s‘ performances was Haushoch over the opposition, recorded on video and in his autobiography, said that it was his ‚life-insurance.!‘
Excellent story on the development and (short) operational career of the Ta-152. Thanks for posting and keep up the good work.
High hopes, but not enough time or resources to develop the plane to its full potential. This is probably the most level-headed evaluation of the Ta 152 that I've seen.
One other thing to consider is that if the war had lasted a few years longer, the development of jet aircraft would have rendered the Ta 152 obsolete anyway. The writing was already on the wall.
It looked sleek and lethal.
That was good. Very concisely combined info on the Ta-152H series. Especially noteworthy is your relating on how all the engine boosting systems were never sorted out. One of the great "what ifs" of the war. But let's face it. The Third Reich's survival was, retrospectively, only a matter of time and Allied material weight.
Good work. I've subscribed.
the Ta-152 was 1 slipstream smooth aircraft...
One of my favorite WW2 aircraft
Well-written script, solid research, clearly narrated and pleasant to listen to. A high quality video.
dont forget that the enlarged wings for thin air high altitude situation also make it turn really well at low alt, especially if those gigantic flap are down, i think its one of the best turning fw 190 line
Flaps for manoeuvring are a non _qualified aero-engineer/professional pilot_ fantasy. Why do fighter wings not already have pre-configured vastly different camber and incidence sections across the span if this is such a good idea? A clean wing is best for high lift and low drag.
Large wings are a handicap at low altitude inducing high drag. That why there is a TA 152C
Unfortunately, the larger wings were larger in span thus reducing the airplanes roll rate. They were great at high altitude, but not down low.
@@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 because in a combat scenario you can sacrifice speed/energy to make a harder turn or better evasive maneuvers. Why do you think combat flaps are thing?
@@Sturmovik1946 Game world doesn’t count.
Excellent resume!.
My favorite WW2 aircraft!
Honest and fair appraisal of an aircraft that was simply too little (underdeveloped) and too late. Excellent video up there with "Greg". The narrator's accent is interesting. Perfection with German pronunciations I've noticed.
Indeed but pronounces de Havilland wrongly.
@@grendelgrendelsson5493 But his German is impeccable. Fragen, warum?
Thank you for this video. Loved the music!
Wasnt Kurt Tank himself attacked by a couple of P51 Mustangs when flying a TA152?
From what I remember he was flying back to base atfer a meeting and just as he was about to land (or was it take off) the airfield was attacked by strafing Mustangs.....Kurt Tank escaped by engaging the MW 50 boost and left the enemy fighters behind.
“Kurt Tank was flying an unarmed Ta 152H in late 1944 to a meeting at the Focke-Wulf plant in Cottbus when ground controllers warned him of two P-51 Mustangs. The enemy aircraft appeared behind Tank, but he escaped by applying full power and engaging the MW 50 boost "until they were no more than two dots on the horizon".
@@CUTECATSTUDIOS That's what Tank says. Do we know what the pilots of the P51s thought? Or if they even saw him. Or if they did. They saw his aircraft as an enemy type.
Curt Tank was the ONLY person to report this so take it with a handful of salt. If this had happened the allied pilots would have reported it and no such report exist.
@@shawn97006 Either he lived to tell the tale or he didn't survive the incident. Not sure which matters more. Cheers.
@@johncmitchell4941 His character is in question...as are most German accounts of performance from this time period.
Great book on JG301.
I read up on V53,a pretty common famous photo. An outstanding machine and beautiful, these were the best of the Dora's, V53 is on my wall...
I always wondered what the differences were between the Ta-152 and the Fw-190D. Thanks for sorting out the differences.
E
Could you do one on the J7w1 shinden or Ki83?
OP this is a very nicely put together, very informative documentary on the fine details of the TA-152 that are so hard to find in any form. After hearing the 152 was a rushed effort to quickly produce a fighter to deal with the American B-29, that German strategists knew were coming into service and might be used against Germany, it explained a lot to me how the performance was so radically improved at very high altitude (which had always been the main drawback to the 190 and why it never replaced the Me-109).
Interestingly by late 1944, Adolf Galland German General of fighters, was urging Hitler to stop production of all other fighters and focus on only the FW-190 and the Me-262. This could not be done for many reasons, and even if it could have been, it would not have bought the Germans much time in any event. And Galland was relieved as General not long after that argument, anyway.
Back in the 70's I flew the Ta 152H model 0 while part of the US 22nd Fighter Squadron stationed at Frankfurt Germany.
Sounds like Ed Harris doing the narration! Excellent!
In WW2 the Germans had fuel injection and the allies had (American supplied) 100 octane fuel. In the case of the former, Rolls Royce took advice from RAE Farnborough regarding whether they should incorporate fuel injection into their new Merlin engine and, bizarrely, they were told not to bother because there were no tangible benefits from the extra complexity. This was very bad advice and for the entire war Rolls Royce had to work around this limitation with carburettor modifications such as anti gravity orifices.
Rolls Royce are understandably immensely proud of the work done, under the leadership of Stanley Hooker, to develop two stage supercharging. This transformed the Spitfire into arguably the best fighter of the War (Mark IX onwards). But there was no lack of knowledge in Germany regarding this type of technology. The problem was how to prevent engine knock with the high manifold pressures that resulted. Multiple workaround solutions were tried, such as the use of water injection and octane improving additives, but none were found to be practical for the rough operating conditions in Russia, so they left it alone for the main fighter fleet. This was not a problem in Russia but it was a big problem in Europe with the arrival of the P-51 Day fighters which, like the Spitfire Mk 9, used the double supercharged Merlin 61 high altitude engine. In his brief confrontations with Mustangs, Eric Hartman observed that, to take them on, he needed to draw them down below 20000 feet. Above that altitude he could not compete.
In the mid 1980s I had the opportunity to discuss the FW 190 D-9 with General Gunther Rall, who briefly commanded the JG-300 high altitude unit. He said they were excellent, but were too little too late and made no practical difference to unfolding events.
Whilst it is true that the Welington V never entered service (due largely to problems with the Hercules VII engines) the Wellington VI, which was developed alongside it (Merlin 60), did enter limited service. By then, the Mosquito was already in service and was clearly better suited to the role.
The Focke-Wulf 190 was a great looking fighter design across the board. My favorite fighter of WW2 was the best fighter of that War---F4U Corsair.
F4U wasnt even the best US fighter aircraft let alone, the best fighter of WW2.
You're totally deluded.
My favourite ww2 fighter!!
A really informative and thought provoking video. I have just got back into model making after a long long time I have read a little bit about the Ta 152 and am still looking forward to building the old Trimaster kit of the Ta 152 but this goes to show that you shouldn’t take all you read in modelling magazines or even some reference works as gospel.
There were only 2 prototype Wellington Vs, did they Luftwaffe know about them?
great vid
I know little about the axis powers but the aircraft was built on very stable bones. The FW190 A-8 is one of my favourite German designs and Kirt Tank should have came over to the Allies as we would have put him to work in stable conditions. In fact, he would have been a great addition to the Hawker Sibly stable and I believe with his magic fingers, would have put the Typhoon program on a more stable position. I would have liked to see how his abilities on the typhoon 2 would have worked out. Maybe, just maybe we might have seen the hawker sea fury before the end of the war. In closing, my all time favourite fighter was the tempest V until I was given my first laptop and studied the Hawker Sibley stable which opened my eyes to the entire typhoon/tempest stable which opened my eyes to the ultimate SeaFury.
I wish I was the one who discovered the squadron of SeaFuries out in Cold Lake. To be part of that purchase along with the entire inventory, at least all that was left. If anyone has more info on that tremendous deal, I wish to hear from you.
14:28
that was not the reason the ta152 was created, it was created to destroy bombers and the d-9 and d-13 could get the mosquito
A sleek and beautiful design ! Very good narrator - the German names sound very German !
She marked the peak of piston engine fighters
@ 9:40, the art picture shows the supercharger intake on the left side of the aircraft, which means it had DB engine (Ta152C) and not the Jumo engine found on the Ta152H or Fw 190D.
I always thought the Ta152C never entered Luftwaffe service?
It's the box art of an old Dragon kit from the late 80s/early 90s. As you've stated correctly, it shows a C (still in factory markings) in a fictional dogfight.
It is however a possible scenario; there were few "Industrie-Schutz-Staffeln" (industry protection squadrons) flown by test pilots and engineers. Kurt Tank himself was surprized by some P-51s while on a test flight in a Ta-152H.
@@ottovonbismarck2443 Hello and thank you for that clarification.
We have a photo of a preproduction Ta152 C0. It is possible a very limited number were built.
Would love to see the Ta 152H at Garber restored or at least put back together before my lifetime ends, but I reckon that is not going to happen. At least they will have the B-17D Swoose completed at the USAFM. I am no wehraboo, I just consider the plane asethectically impressive.
Fantastic, historical analysis.. well done!
Looks good even now!
They should have produced more Ta 152's than me 262's
at 3:57 we see a Ta 152 C-0 with DB 603E engine (Supercharger air intake on left side of the fuselage), the C was not fitted with Jumo 213
Surely, with at least one year of work, the germans would've resolved the various problem, the TA152 was an increbible leap forward in fighters' design, but it was rushed in combat without any concern about reliability and security, with no trained ground crews, and lack of spare parts. Given Germany's situation in Early 1945, it's a miracle that some aircrafts could be deployed, probabilly it could've been a dangerous foe for the allies, but luckily the lack of time doomed this project. (and didn't help that most jobs in industry were done by forced labour, so sabotages weren't rare!)
It was tested after the war against a p47 and kept with it up to 40 thousand feet but then shot ahead to 45 thousand feet.The p47 just could not keep up with it.
The Germans also got wind of the B-29 and B-36.
A high altitude fighter was seen as needed ,rapidly
Chuck Yeager flew and evaluated one of these. He said it was so much better than the P-51.
I really like how you say yak devyat 😅
The width of that 3 bladed prop
Do you prefer them thick or long?
It reminds me of the "paddle blades" added to the P-47.
Niche aircraft for high altitude.
btw, i hate these Planes when flying high alt. in War thunder RB air but down low they are easy kills for my favorite LFMkIX Spits, yesterday i had a fight versus a Ta152H pressed him lower to 3000m and bleeded his energy during the fight because a 109K-4 with energy advantage came in and joined the fight , biggest threat the 109 first and back to Hangar with him then i took care of the 152.
There is only a small difference verbally but I think the rank of the one pilot you mentioned was “Oberleutnand” and not “Oberstleutnand” - the first is 1st lieutenant while the second is lieutenant commander/lieutenant colonel
ERIC BROWN flew a 152h after the war and he was impressed by its perfomance and that was without the extra NO2 (noxcide) which would have given the plane quiet a ekstra speed in high attitudes so this video stating that this plane was a big mistake makes me wonder what really is the truth
8:53 It will have been Flight Lieutenant Mitchell (plain Lieutenant is not a rank in the RAF).
Virtually every writeup I have ever encountered spent more time playing down the plane's attributes. However it is worth remembering that Kurt Tank himself when bounced by a flight of P-51's easily out ran them with the simple act of giving his TA 152 full throttle. The plane left th Mustangs behind at a rate of 30mph. Another point to consider it that by the time the TA152 was in service American P51's were being delivered in bare metal. The bare metal allowed for less weight and more importantly better airflow over the airplane. Conversly the Ta152 and all other German planes were painted in dull camouflage which slowed them down. A bare metal TA152H1 would have reached 475mph if left in bare skin. Even it's armament gets played down. The machine had two 20mm Cannon and one 30mm cannon. This is equal to if not superior to the P51's 6 fifty cal machine guns. I have spoken to former P51 pilots and they were all erroniously in denile of the TA152 H-1's performance. Had things gone a bit differently the advanced German aircraft would have driven the Allied air units from German air space and quite possibly from the skies of the entire European continent. If nothing else we have the luxury of flying the TA 152 in simulators. Unless you fly a Me262 there is nothing superior the TA152H1.
Comparing test data of the two planes shows that the P-51D, even on combat power, was faster than the Ta 152H at low levels. P-51s over Europe were generally not operating at the maximum performance possible and often laden with drop tanks. Chasing down a Ta 152, a P-51 is never going to use maximum power because that setting is only for emergencies. But if the tables were ever turned, the P-51 could drop the tanks and use emergency power, handily outrunning the Ta 152. It’s at least a 15 mph speed difference, too, more if it’s running 150 octane fuel. And even then, there were other Allied planes even faster than that. In particular, the P-47M was faster than the Ta 152H at all altitudes below 11,500 m, where the Ta 152H could activate the nitrous injection system. Considering not even the B-29 could go that high, the Ta 152H’s advantage there would not have been relevant.
Please do pasanger convey planes
I think the Fw 190 and the Ta 152 were great aircraft. By the time the Ta 152 came out it was outnumbered by the Allies by a factor of at lest 12 to 1. The Ta152 could fly higher than any Spitfire, P 51, P 47, a remarkable feat
I have both the TA 152 and fw190a in 1/6 scale flying models and can tell you that roll rate is significantly slower in the TA152. The 152 is a more stable platform.
The ta152 is the most beautiful fighter of world war 2. Given time Kurt Tank would have made the Allies have to answer with a entirely new aircraft. With high octane fuel she may have closed in on 500 mph.
1:08 - Odd looking Wellington flying blue whale.
Pressurised capsule for crew
Looks like a beautiful aircraft. Too bad it was developed so late.
Nope, Too Good that the development was never finished !!!
The F-ing Nazi's killed all of US Army, Major, Dr. R. R. Liker's family in Europe except for his cousin's family who faked being a "non political" German Catholic with only one Jewish grandparent with the help of a Catholic Priest...
Ruby [Dr. Liker] was my Prussian Jewish grandfather, an OB/GYN who volunteered for the US Army, serving as a Front-Line Field Surgeon. He was also left with a lifetime of guilt over having to euthanize about a third of his patients. As he once put it, "No Face, No Jaw, No Hands, whatever could I do, whatever could I do???", "Just a boy, what ever could I do"... He also was involved in several Concentration Camp Liberations and wrote the Medical Protocols for treating Concentration Camp Victims"...
The Only Good Nazi is a Dead Nazi! !!!!!!!!!!
NCO
pilots?
the best ww2fighter...
Yak Dievyat'
хорошее произношение, уважаемый :)
Time to make the turboloader itself the engine.
Still a great looking plane but rushed into production. With further testing and development, this model could have made a significant difference for the Luftwaffe. As usual, not enough time.
The Yak what?! Was that a sneeze?
That's the word for 9 in Russian.
Failure? I’ll take Willi Reschke’s words over yours honestly. The guy defeated a Tempest V in a low level dogfight so it wasn’t a failure. I’ve also saw this information first on a instagram page which is really good and there’s a post about Eric Brown who compared it against the Spitfire XIX a high altitude Spitfire and the Ta 152 was judged superior without using MW-50 or GM-1 boost. Eric Brown said the aircraft he flew had tanks for both but the British did not have any.
Willi Reschke also said in a conversation that the Ta 152 H could out-curve an FW 190 A (!) at low altitude!
please activated subtitle in spanish ..!!! thanks
The Bf109 was a excellent high altitude fighter. Not the FW 190A.
Personally, they built the wrong version of the Ta 152. Instead of the H model, which was intended as a high-altitude interceptor, they should have concentrated on building the Ta 152C model with its narrower span wings, which offered better lower altitude maneuverability. The Ta 152C could have been a major scourge against the de Havilland Mosquito and Douglas A-26 Invader flying low-altitude bombing missions.
An issue the Luftwaffe had with the Mosquito was its performance at any/every altitude.
Come on! Showed footage of early model 190s as the high altitude and let down an otherwise great video.
Thanks
I believe Adolph Gallant himself flew one and found it extraordinary. Most of the problem were mechanical issues with the engine that had yet to be ironed out.
Maybe for the benefit of the anglophone listeners, "Yak-nine" would be better word than "Yak-Devyatka" :-)
I learned another something new today, though. 👍
Bf-109G-6AS (G-5AS, G-14AS), G-10 and K-4 lacking at high altitudes ??? Three question marks as symbol for my dis-belief in this information. All of these were as capable as P-51D. Not for handling of course.
Nevertheless, another good video on the most beautiful WW2 aircraft.
The fighter conference for high altitude aircraft was held in 1942, by then all they had were nitrous boosted Bf 109's. They would later install much larger superchargers, but at the time the Bf 109F4Z was the best they had.
The narrator has good German pronunciation.
Die Werbung sollte eher heißen: Eis fressen ist meine Leidenschaft.😅
I love planes that are beautiful and almost ugly at the same time. Spitfire number 1. FW190 number 2
Would have been meat on the table for the P-80 Shooting Star had the war gone on much longer. P-80 fighters were operational and being test in Italy before the war ended.
... being tested*
Sounds like this thing had more bugs than the Amazon rainforest.
Tanks w / pressurized nitrous oxide is not going to help - weight vs. power boost is , well , I can’t
Believe it was even installed - probably not. Dream stuff ( wonder weapon ) -
Cupped propeller blades may have been quite hi tech - However … what the hell ?