Sorry, I just don't understand how you could think that based on this episode. Matt was vicious in this episode, downright cruel at times, often for no justifiable reason. Shannon seemed to have no influence on Matt, positive or otherwise.
4:25 Jenna in California: Boyfriend scared by coronavirus and wants to go back to being a Jehovah Witness 16:22 Ricky in Atlanta, Ga: Says Matt is wrong about Morality 39:28James in Maine wants to prove that Matt and Shannon already believe in God 43:00 call that broke Matt's zen. Mike in CA is a Christian, wants Matt on his side and says Matt is wrong about the context of slavery in the Bible. 45:51 Shannon almost spits out her drink when Matt said Mike is blowing him 50:43 Shandu in Ontario wants to know is non-dualism a problem from an atheist point of view 1:00:22 Jordan in CA asks Shannon and Matt what they think about the concept of a non sentient god being a metaphor for everything good in humanity and using this as a way of framing our world view 1:16:11 Journey in NC Shannon picks this caller to try and break Matt's Zen. Journey is a previous caller who wants to try again to define what the word god means 1:19:10 Alex in NJ was raised I a church, struggles with mental illness and wants to distance himself from spirituality
FEAR GOD!!!! You understand that you just defined god into existence right? “These things” is too non-specific, I assume by creation, you refer to the universe. But you haven’t demonstrated that it is a creation. If you can, we can call it that, until you do, I’ll stick to universe.
@FEAR GOD!!!! Have you considered following some middle school science classes? It's probably far above your level but you'd learn some amazing science
@FEAR GOD!!!! "Can't have up without down, ...(other examples of disparity)... Can't have creation without a creator" creation and creator are not disparate at all. Complete non sequitur. Yes, you cannot have light without darkness, but this has nothing to do with creation. Please learn some basics about logical fallacies and then try again.
@FEAR GOD!!!! Please define creation. Are sand dunes created or are they natural formations based on the action of wind and its interaction with physical particles? Is there a sentient actor guiding these processes? If there are, please demonstrate how you know this and how we can observe it happening.
My mother is a JW and she is in the same mindset. Loving all this worldly turmoil. I've heard "it is soon" my whole life. Caronavirus is adding fuel to her fire. It is hard to see loved ones happy about the concept of billions dying. That is how it translates to an athiest.
Better yet, there have been many pandemics over the millennia. Literally since the start of recorded history, and no doubt before then as well. Yet, here we are. Some certainly thought the world was ending during each and every one of those events, but humans are persistent creatures. Not only have we survived epidemics and pandemics, but tsunamis, earthquakes and volcanoes, tornadoes and hurricanes, ice ages, comets and asteroids... Our planet isn't always placid and peaceful. In fact, it rarely is. Sure, some massive disaster might set us back for a while, wipe out some of of our tech, most likely kill a large percentage of the population, but homo sapiens sapiens are incredibly adaptable and we will eventually either evolve into something else or will simply stop adapting and die.
I had this idea too! I have a few others too, actually. I'm going to put my comment of other ideas here too in case she sees this comment. It is a top comment right now. Hope thats ok OP! 🙋♀️𝐉𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐚 (1st caller) 𝐈 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐬𝐨𝐦𝐞, 𝐡𝐨𝐩𝐞𝐟𝐮𝐥𝐥𝐲, 𝐡𝐞𝐥𝐩𝐟𝐮𝐥 𝐢𝐝𝐞𝐚𝐬! Have you tried showing him the past pandemics? There have been many pandemics. Its a part of human life. Maybe if you do that & remind him why he left, he'll come down enough that you can work through his fear together (because then he'd hopefully be more responsive & logical). Also, if you do try that, it may take more than one conversation. Be patient. Try to learn about the other pandemics, fear coping skills, critical thinking skills, etc together. Learning things together with someone you love is very different to saying "here's a lesson". Good luck!!
elrojo79 I believe I understand what Ricky was trying to say. His downfall was trying to overly simplify a complicated subject, which I will now attempt to do myself. 😂 His arguments are summarized as follows and expounded on afterward: 1. Morality as a universal “ought” is subjective. 2. You cannot derive a rational universal “ought” out of morality that is subjective. 3. “Oughts” can only be rational if they appeal to rationality, not morality, which is subjective. 4a. If you cannot derive an “ought” out of morality, you cannot claim morality is prescriptive. 4b. Therefore the only morality we can agree upon as rational is descriptive ethics, which is totally distinctive from subjective prescriptive ethics. 5. The foundation of descriptive (NOT prescriptive) ethics is social cohesion. 1. Explanation: If morality is subjective, it can only be proven to reside in your own mind, and no one else’s. So the Borg may not be moral to you but it can absolutely be moral to someone else, or moral to the Borg. There is no universal moral constant. This is not to say *we don’t have* personal moral attitudes or that they shouldn’t factor in to *our own* rational calculations, but rather a recognition that once that is communicated to others, it is subjective and therefore loses all “oughtness”. It’s important to totally separate our personal subjective moral feelings vs. a universal set of “ought” rules we can all hope to agree on. This type of “ought” has to be based on reason and objectivity rather than emotion and subjectivity. 2. Explanation: If morality is subjective, we can’t ever hope to create an “ought” and successfully communicate that “ought” to others. We can only relay how *we* feel and not how *others* should feel. 3. Explanation: Only once we know how someone else feels and we both agree to use reason can we say how someone *ought* to act if they want to be *rational,* but this should not be confused with morality. Morality is subjective and can never be rational. This is an important distinction because it fundamentally changes the meaning of the concept of morality in a way that may not be clear because we’re all using the same word, and this is why it’s so confusing. When skeptics say we ought not murder people we’re appealing to reason, of which how we subjectively feel can of course play a part (lest we become logical positivists), but only as it fits into our rational model. When most theists say we ought not murder people they’re appealing to an axiomatic moral system that is outside reason itself. We’re using the same words but the meaning behind the words are fundamentally different. Skeptics make the mistake of thinking we’re talking about the same concepts when we actually aren’t. 4. Explanation: The only type of morality that is objective and which we can hope to agree on is descriptive ethics, which does not say, “this is what you should do,” but lays out the conditions needed and predicts *when* you will say, “this is moral” and when you will say, “this is not moral.” It focuses on what *is* considered moral and not what *ought* to be moral. It can only factor in as a set of facts when considering what we rationally “ought” to do. 5. Explanation: Descriptive models of morality are 100% scientific and objective, because the models can make predictions and be tested for accuracy. An accurate model will make a prediction about what conditions have to be true for people to agree on morality. Social cohesion / consensus must be a fundamental condition for people to say “this is moral.” I think if we look at the characteristics of the Borg I think we should agree that *they* must think they are acting morally. Why? Their social cohesion must be a crucial aspect of that. So if we’re looking at what conditions can reliably predict what people think is moral, social cohesion seems like a good fundamental starting point. If Hitler succeeded in conquering the world and it produced the social cohesion he expected (a *big* “If”), it therefore means everyone would believe their world is moral. Of course it won’t be subjectively / prescriptively moral to *us,* but it would be descriptive to say is moral to *them,”* and that’s all science/reason can tell us. You could say colloquially, that’s all that matters “to the universe.” This is not an *alternative* to prescriptive morality, we will still subjectively feel how we feel about Hitler. It’s an analytical approach to morality vs. an appeal to emotion, but therein lies its rationally. You can say it’s, “without soul,” and rightfully so because an immaterial soul cannot ever be rationally proven, ha. It’s never going to fill our emotional needs, much like a god can fill our emotional needs if you just believe in one without evidence, but that doesn’t make it rational. But it’s the study of morality which we can then plug in to the rules about how we rationally “ought” to behave. Hitler’s steps to getting to social cohesion involved worldwide social incoherence, lol. A descriptive morality model would tell you that people are going to find Germany’s behavior immoral. Based off of this descriptive model you can plug it into a rational model to rationalize that it’s simply not going to work out well for you, therefore it’s *irrational* to “ought” to do so. And *that* is the point I think Ricky was trying to make. 😂
Matt says, "Atheism is a single position on a single issue." Shannon agrees. Their brilliance knows no bounds! I've been a minister for 40 years and it never even occurred to me I could have half a million followers with a single catch phrase, that I'd be revered as the intelligentsia of modern history. WOW, do you think they're through 5 Mensa exams without a single error too? SO many geniuses, where did all the stupid people go?
@@oursecretlord9008 atheism is a single position on a single issue not a catch phrase. It's just a simple fact . Make America great again or yes we can are catch phrases. I can tell you where all the stupid people went. To church on sunday
@@tylerlehman9427 Atheism is the general denial of the deity claim, and atheism is the denial of the claim "at least one deity exists" and "atheism is simple, it's a _lack of belief"_ and it's the claim "The brain produces the mind, this is what all the evidence indicates. When the brain is damaged the personality is damaged." And “You can do what you decide to do - but you cannot decide what you will decide to do.” ― Sam Harris, Free Will. Atheism is saying, "You don't even know what atheism even is." How could anyone?, it changes meaning every time the word is mentioned. Those are a lot of issues on a lot of positions on those issues. Sort of like a side in a dispute. If all one does is says what their side is then you should be satisfied with "at least one deity exists." If you can't disprove that statement then I have no obligation to give you the argument I just did decimating your side, you know, in this culture war, my war against Matt Dillahunty's cult of personality. Additionally, Matt has 3000 shows, and this single mantra. There's something of the mystical going on here. How many hours does it take to say that one sentence you claim isn't a catch phrase? There's another position on another issue. Anything but a fair and balanced evaluation of the evidence, that's more like what "atheism is." You all claim just to be here on Matt Dillahunty's uploads because you enjoy roasting your debate opponents. The time for roasting is after the case has been ruled in your favor, not when Matt decides how much time he is given and how much his debate opponent (opposing counsel). Atheism is being the judge and a participant of a dispute. *Catch Phrase* noun. a phrase that attracts or is meant to attract attention. a phrase, as a slogan, that comes to be widely and repeatedly used, often with little of the original meaning remaining. I was being generous in my attribution of "catch phrase." What you all actually have are lies and roasts over your lies.
@@oursecretlord9008 had you stopped at atheism is simple it's a lack of belief you would have been correct. All the crap about a mind and personality is not atheism it's his personal beliefs. Your problem is you think atheism goes further than I dont believe in god. So you basis that if something is said alot it's a catch phrase. So how about the stock market went up or the stock market went down. How many times has that been said? Is that a catch phrase
@@oursecretlord9008 cult of personality lol. I personally think mat is a bit brash in his delivery . I dont blame him because he has been debating religious nuts for so many years anyone would start to get angry. That's why shannon q is a good addition she is brilliant and knows the psychology religous people have to believe in the god delusion.
The letters of both Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis, wherein they quote extensively from the Bible, should leave no doubt that believers through history have justified slavery using scripture. Funny, in these comments I've seen the "...that's not really in the Bible" claim, as well as the"...slavery really wasn't that bad" argument (by the same comenter). I've wondered about Exodus 21:26 where if you put out a slave's eye, you must set him/her free. So you damage someone so they probably can't feed themselves or get any type of job, then you say " hey, cheer up, you're free! Good luck !
But..... But..... But things were DIFFERENT back then! Don't you understand? It helped the slaves! They were only workers!!! 🙄 Yes, the apologetics are crazy and desperate at this point.
@@ptuffgong8504 Hey, is that a Bob Marley reference? I've been made aware( to my horror) that there are still white Americans who have the story that "...slaves in the US had it pretty good", as well as the "..things were different back then" lie. Not one person making that case would think any of those things if they had to live under the conditions of the average field slave for say ...a month.
No, it was Christianity that got rid of slavery in the US. Christians know that Jesus is antislavery. That is just silly. Did Martin Luther King and other Black Christians think Jesus is okay with slavery. NO. You cant keep using a few verses that are hard to understand in context to prove the God Jesus bad... oh I guess you can keep doing it... weird how the physics ruling your brain cells let you keep doing something wrong.
@@russellmillar7132 Nice! It's not often people understand my RUclips name. Yes. Bob Marley. I had to throw the silent P at the front. Don't want to step on Bob's toes.
@@cgeemailx4037 Sorry bruh. It was Christianity that justified slavery in the first place. If Jesus was anti slavery he would have said "Don't have slaves!!" Instead he said "slaves obey your masters". Jesus anti slavery? Try again my friend. And please don't use the word "context". That's the most pathetic apologetic of all apologetics.
I did the same thing the first caller's boyfriend is doing right now. I broke up with my girlfriend and cut all ties with her and my "worldly" friends and ran back to the JW cult when Desert Storm broke out. It terrified me so bad I ran back and got baptized within the first year. The fear brainwashing is SO extreme. I also got married to a witness 6 months later. Long story short, 1 year and 8 months later, she cheated on me, denied it, and left. Then I was "publicly reproved" and shunned by every JW I new, and left for the final time at around 23. When we get past this and the world doesn't end (again), hopefully, he will come around and leave again.
One of the first-recorded uses of this phrase was by the character Lady Macbeth in Act 3, Scene 2 of the tragedy play Macbeth (early 17th century), by the English playwright William Shakespeare, who said: "Things without all remedy Should be without regard: what's done, is done"
New Rule: Do Not Eat Breakfast while watching the show. I watched Shannon say she was trying to break Matt's Zen with such zeal and glee that I shot a Cheerio out of my nose.
I've said before and I'll say it again: “Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe anything because it s found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept and live up to it.” --- Buddha Siddhartha Gautama Shakyamuni
We've known for years that pandemics are almost inevitable. As a medical-adjacent staffperson, I have attended several conferences over the years to discuss what protocols would be *when* a pandemic took hold in the US. There have been several close calls in the past. But they were taken more seriously by the gov't officials whose job it is to attend to such matters. This was not a surprise to the gov't the way it was to the public. Would her boyfriend be so convinced about the "end times" if he knew it was expected (at some point)?
To play the devil's advocate here... The Bible predict times of pest, so it is expected (at some point) in his religious world view. So it wouldn't change his conviction, it's expected under both his conflicting world views and the fear response took over the (hopefully) reasonable cause that made him leave JW in the first place. I think it's better to remind him of those reasons and think about if anything have changed. Then at least it might lead to christianity in a slightly less destructive cult, at best the reason can overcome the fear.
It couldn't make a difference to him. Last week on TH, they had a caller who said that the Bible predicted that in the end times there would be thieves and liars. Weren't there thieves and liars in biblical times? Not much of a bloody prophecy. It's like predicting there will be earthquakes, floods and natural disasters. Those things have happened every year since people started recording them.
@@maemorri "Things will be as it have always been in the past". That is the shittiest profecy anyone can make and still, some people seem convinced from that. I agree, it would make none or very little difference to him.
The first caller’s premise was correct. He just didn’t clearly highlight that the social cohesion he was referring to only applies to an individual’s “tribe.” As that tribe expands, so too do the “rules” of morality within that tribe.
jamier26 It was the second caller. I’m not sure what you’re saying. Yes, the social cohesion only applies to whatever population subset you’re measuring.
Matt, what you said during the Ricky call about morality was simply beautiful. Social cohesion is only desirable when it arises from people excersizing their freedom. That phrase beautifully encapsulates what core of Western representative democracy.
Voice I hear inside my head it's "inner speech"- it's monologue (or dialogue?) with myself. Mine is loud. I often argue with my self. I've never thought that it's a god. One time I had a big problem. I thought about it all day. Next morning I woke up with brilliant solution. It was my brain- working during my sleep, not god or angel.
@@andybeans5790 I often play scenarios in my head. If I have some argument with someone, or importand conversation in the future: so if he says this:..... I say this:.....Or he will say something like this:.... I will respond with that:.... I'm doing this to be better prepared. Worst things are flashbacks. If someone said something hurtful, it's stays with me forever. It is damaging.
@@ewaszorek3591 yup, I rehearse future arguments and replay previous issues far too much, but I'm learning to spot when it's becoming cyclical and to break out of the loop.
@@ptuffgong8504 Shannon is quick as a whip, man, she works really well with Matt as a counterpoint that understand the psychology - Matt can address the logical arguments, she takes em down on the mental front.
Jenna's boyfriend said the j.w's claimed to have predicted the covid pandemic in 2015. In doesn't take a Devine prophesy to predict that some kind of pandemic would come from markets in China or elsewhere in Asia. The Simpsons did it like 25 or 30 years ago, and the movie "contagion" did it about 10 years ago. It was bound to happen at some point.
SARS, MERS, Ebola, H1N1 - there's a steady stream of viruses, and more are coming, and they've actually been there for all of recorded history. There's a "history of pandemics" video that's worth checking out. A prediction of disease outbreaks is about as prophetic as the weather. "omg rain, it's the RAPTURE".
With my small, tiny, little voice in this hugh, immense, and seemingly never-ending universe and cosmos i would like to whisper...........Thank you Matt Dillahunty!! You're one of my heroes!
Shannon and Matt are amazing. Matt is Matt, which is awesome, but Shannon has the knowledge, assertiveness, and critical thinking skills to play perfectly with Matt.
The DEFINITION of slavery is INVOLUNTARY servitude. Therefore, there CANNOT BE slavery that is voluntary when the DEFINITION is that it's involuntary. Have a nice day.
The old testament have to be understood with the cultural context of that time in mind. In the past, there were plenty of violence such as wars occurring all the time and technologies were still primitive. It is through the effort of our ancestors that have given to us a good life and we should not take that for granted.
@@inertiaforce7846 When there is a huge number of people given freewill (voluntary), what happens is that unfairness do happen. However, I believe that when the time is up for them, God will pass judgment on them to be fair and to uphold justice. An analogy: If you are an animal such as a fish, you get caught in the net thrown by humans, they cook and eat you. That is a case of involuntary action. However, if you do pray to god sincerely, I believe he intervenes appropriately to solve the problem of people imposing their freewill at the expense of others.
@@inertiaforce7846 That is exactly what I thought. I was such a determined atheist until one time I said to myself that I will believe if I see it with my own eyes. Immediately at the outset of the Covid period, I started encountering something abnormal, it appears a ghost was tormenting me. My encounter is with a poltergeist. It makes "popping sounds" that coincides at the exact time of my thoughts. At first I dismissed it, then as a skeptic I tried to verify it with all sorts of methods. It then became too obvious as if he/she wanted me to know he/she is there. Seeing is really believing.. then again if you want such an encounter, you can always pray to god for it.. I'm sure those ghosts are more than willing but be prepared mentally for all sorts of mental torture. After my terrible experience with the poltergeist, I told myself I took for granted the kindness of God that he didn't show me anything before the experience. Thus, I'm sharing my experiences sincerely with everyone here for whoever is reading this.
My husband was a JW and I tried them out. Well they were holding a study with our small kids in 1976 when I over heard her telling them they did not have to worry about growing up since the end would come. I immediately offered her the door and we never went back.
@Beep Boop Actually, I believe that he went to a seminary. Which is a form of college. Actually, during to Middle Ages, joining the clergy was for most people, the only way to learn how to read/get an education. And if Republicans had their way, we'd go back to that system.
I see you two are onto something. I'm as familiar with God as any human being that's ever lived and so I know what you two are talking about is the crux of the whole deal. Both of your points are amazingly succinct while plumbing the depths of truths via our discursive intellect. Let me put in my 1.5 trillion dollars worth. Theological Grace. I've been a minister for a few thousand years, well, two anyway, and when I figured out what a Divine Grace is, it changed every aspect of my life. Love …12Now we see but a dim reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 13And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love; but the greatest of these is love. I Corinthians 13:12-13. these three are Theological (Divine) Graces or Virtues. I don't make myself holy, I can't make myself have empathy, it can't ever be my job. Irrelevant but important to me side note (Bing not Google) you can discover my Holy Cross the most sacred Holy Cross in human history atop Mt. Rubidoux rests as the apex at 1331 ft. (1 Corinthians 13:13, a permeation I guess, but it's in there.) My Son Jason, named after the Friday the 13th character was born All Hallows Eve, Friday the 13th is our Illuminati day, 13 our number. 1331
@@oursecretlord9008 - Paid no attention to the OP. - Addressed your reply to the 'show hosts' for some reason?! - And then analyse a book of fantasy stories. I can't make myself have faith, it is a path of ignorance.
1. That could be a t-shirt. With the "this lousy t-shirt" part, optionally, on back. 2, Maybe like an "[ ] accident-free days" sign posted at work. *Ends of the world survived: [ ]* (hanging cards) 3. Or Ends of the World? Like Solicitors General 4. OP may be estimating based on x/year.
I for one think the caller around 30 min. made sense. The knee jerk reaction to dismiss his thesis about morality as a kind of illusion was disappointing and - frankly - struck me as an unwillingness to entertain a fresh, radical perspective that could've led somewhere.
Love and Fear are existential emotions, but they are still chemical and neuronal reasons why we react and may believe in it. In hindsight of fear from covid, we need to learn from our feelings of fear and what that actually meant, and means now. Blame on the "supernatural" for internal "self" should never be the first "go to", to move forward with life. Gr8! Peace ☮💜
I saw few young Americans answering the question of when America became independent was 1977, most don’t know when was WWII and who fought in it, they also don’t know what the Cold war was and who first set foot on the moon. Obviously they never heard of the Spanish flu that originated in the USA and killed an estimate of 25 to 50 millions worldwide, meanwhile WWI killed another 22 million, and 20 years later WWII killed 85 millions. This is the price you pay for not having history programs at school that teach you the past, every time is a new experience , a new fear and tragically a repetition of past mistakes of judgement.
He at the very least ignores it, and is apparently ok with his chosen people kidnapping foreigners - men, women and children for manual labor aka slavery and forced “marriages” aka sex slavery. He’s also comfortable with ignoring rapists that buy their victim from their parents for a handful of cash. Genocide is ok as well, He’s done it personally on a global scale, destroyed a couple of towns and told his chosen people to kill for him too.
As an ex JW I feel sympathy for the 1st caller. Watchtower did not predict a pandemic back in 2015, they simply quoted scientific opinion at the time on pandemics. Jehovahs Witnesses predicted it in the same way that the film Contagion did.
Coronavirus is a heading or umbrella term for a thousand different types of viruses. One became pandemic because it wasn't quarantined in time. No predictions are necessary. It's a brute fact if we don't clean up the insidious health conditions in China, then we're all doomed.
@@trustinjesus1119 Sadly the mindset of JWs is not based on facts. It is based on their interpretation of the bible, and the belief that Armageddon is looming. God is coming to kill all non JWs. Wars, earthquakes plagues are all biblical signs of this. They are an "end of the world" religion.
@@julespetyt6930 In some sense what you're saying is true, there are people who have doctrines. My parents taught it to me like this, "If all of your friends thought it was a good idea to jump off a bridge, just make sure you go last." I only know one person who really goes by facts. For instance, he showed me how my noetic subsystem of mind, my intentional consciousness, is _evaluative_ and *supervisory.* Jules, I never considered that fact before, but I've experienced it 7 or 8 ways every second of my life over the last 500,000 hours of my life, I'm 58. Don't you evaluate and supervise your self, data you choose to direct your attention to? Yes, unless you're different than me, in an entirely different category. I recommend you watch this movie, _The Children Act._ IT stars Emma Thompson. I don't put _any stock_ in the JW mindset of the "Atheist." I direct my awareness.
My wife is a Filipino catholic. She raised our son to be Catholic, with Catholic school. I never said anything about religion to our son until he was 16. At that age he said to me, "You believe in God right?" I said not and the conversation ended. Since then he has never asked about god; described his belief in god: or said anything to me about god. I strived during my son's young life that he should think for himself an not believe what others tell him. To this day, I do not know what he actually believes, but I hope that he has come to his own conclusion based on truth. :
They didn't mean "good" per se. Just that it happened to be questionably beneficial in a way that it played a part in primitive human beings and our struggle to survive. He was probably still wrong in what his point was though, but I'm in traffic and can't analyze it atm.
@@chrismathis4162 I think I'm similar, I'm pretty asocial but I value human wellbeing... if everyone could just be well _somewhere else_ that'd be great.
What he was getting to about xenophobia is more or less correct. Its been found to be tied to our tribalistic nature, which is a direct result of our evolutionary history. Human beings evolved/adapted to functioning in small nomadic hunterer-gatherer tribes, thus we have an in-group out-group bias, and we generally fear those that we consider to not be part of our in-group. This is why we form tribes universally, in every continent, country, and even based on things that you'd think are unlikely, such as favorite sports team, political party, religious denomination, etc. This "those people over there are like that, we're like this so we're better" is also a mentality that has its ties to this evolutionary trait. Now, xenophobia, tribalism, in-group out-group bias, all of this has a biological basis, but that doesnt mean it cant be overcome. There have already been many examples in different cultures/societies where these biases are overcome or compensated for, so it isnt "hard nature" per se. Nurture plays a big role, so its important to remember that the behavior of human beings is a result of Nature + Nurture combined.
Atheism is the denial of the claim "at least one deity exists." That's the main one. When it's suggested, "I"m not making the claim at least one deity exists so you don't get to be an atheist" the oft heard (read online) response is, "No, no, no, I'm an atheist all the time. I lack belief of gods all the time." So, it's that and not waiting for someone to make the claim "at least one deity exists" so that claim gets denied, that's off the table, it's now this other thing, it's where one who lacks belief of gods all the time. Stay with me now tama, I plan on helping you see something here. Thus, because we now *know* beyond a rational doubt that "atheism is the lack of belief of gods all the time" it necessarily can't be "Atheism is the denial of the claim at least one deity exists." O.k.? Now, to your question, whoever in the holy fvck suggested that here in Matt Dillahunty Paradise, is as big a moron as the people who make this argument for "atheism" where it morphs from one thing to another in every comment.
Seems like the ability to have quality conversation (healthy back and forth) has significantly gone down due to the pressure to get to increased number of callers. Any tiny distraction away from point results in disconnection - its like they are looking for excuses to just move on constantly. Conversations arent fullfiling any more.
I agree, I'm starting to veer away from the show. I don't see the point in shouting down people with even slightly differing opinions. I thought it was about open discussion, but I think I was very mistaken.
56:43 They talk about the concept of infinity and how it is used in maths. I don't think Matt is right about disagreeing with Mathmaticians. I study computer science in university and that includes quite a lot of maths and from what I understand Infinity is only ever used as a concept. Yes you sometimes use the infinity symbol in equations but that comes with the understanding that this is an abstract concept. You might see stuff like the sum of 1 + 2 + 3 .. infinitely many times is infinity (probably a too simplistic example) but for people studying math that comes with the knowledge that this has a specific meaning. Infinite sums like that basically mean that there is no upper bound (no maximum) for an equation like this. Other equations like lets say 1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + ... = 2 dont mean that this infinite sum is equal to 2 but that it gets closer and closer to 2 the more numbers you add. With each additional term you add the number gets bigger, but it will never be greater than 2. Those equations use the concept of infinity but they don't treat it as a number. Granted there are special areas where people treat infinity as a number but then they are aware of that conflict and its more of a hypothetical exercise of what if .... This can be really interesting because it can lead to new discoveries that can then be applied back to more normal kinds of mathematics (in some cases). The same is true for concepts like irrational numbers (pi, e) or even imaginary numbers (sqrt(-1) = i).
What a power move putting Shannon on as a cohost she’s coherent in her thoughts, knowledgeable, intelligent and cute af. I don’t even 🤔 i heard her say umm
1:07 You can't think of a moral system based on manipulation of fear response? Our system of law, which is an attempt at a moral system, is based on exactly that. People fear the punishment of getting caught and jailed.
Jenna, you should check out the John Cedars channel on RUclips. He actually has a video refuting the Watchtower article you mentioned. Plus there's a lot of other great videos that might help. Good luck.❤
@@worldlywoman9136 I'm so glad I was able to point you in the right direction! Lloyd is a bloody legend, his work is fantastic. ❤ Atheist love to you from Australia! Xx
I think this pandemic hit religious people more. It hit us atheists also but we are not in shock because we are not afraid of dead, but isn’t it weird that people that believe in a afterlife are more afraid of dead?
martinbondesson Same. The pain/suffering beforehand and the fact that I’ll be here one minute and gone the next. I wonder, when we have to put animals down, do they know they’re going to die?
I relate to the first caller - ever since Covid my mom has non stop been watching sermons about how this is a sign of the end of the world and all that. It’s been a year since I quit church, but listening to the sermons causes me a whole bunch of anxiety and I hate that feeling
re: chandu at like 58:00 christ, why can't people get to their goddamn point? start with your conclusion and then support it. they let this guy talk for so many minutes without saying a goddamn thing. how are people so bad at this?
To Jenna, the first caller: There are people and organisations to help the two of you a lot better, butsince I am an ex-jw myself, if i can do anything, let me know.
Here's a funny story, that my grandmother told me about first reactions. When my uncles (x3) were 5,6,7, and had grown up in a small town they had NEVER seen a black person before. One day this very dark black man came into town and when my uncles saw him, they ran and hid in some bushes and were afraid to come out. He was friendly and tried to coax them out, but to no avail. (north Ontario 1945)
lol! A couple of years ago I was talking to a "young puppy," who was looking forward to starting university that fall. I was about to share some of my university experience, but as I heard the words, "I left university nearly 25 years ago" fall out of my mouth, I cut myself off (having never before realized it was the case that I'm 25 years AFTER university), said *"F&CK YOU!* and turned around to hide my shame. It's like the first time I ID'd a girl (I'm a waiter/bartender) who was, in addition to being legal, born the year I started high school. I handed her back her ID and said that I cannot accept what is obviously a lie, being perpetuated for no reason other than to feed my insecurities.
🙋♀️𝐉𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐚 (1st caller) 𝐈 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐬𝐨𝐦𝐞, 𝐡𝐨𝐩𝐞𝐟𝐮𝐥𝐥𝐲, 𝐡𝐞𝐥𝐩𝐟𝐮𝐥 𝐢𝐝𝐞𝐚𝐬! Have you tried showing him the past pandemics? There have been many pandemics. Its a part of human life. Maybe if you do that & remind him why he left, he'll come down enough that you can work through his fear together (because then he'd hopefully be more responsive & logical). Also, if you do try that, it may take more than one conversation. Be patient. Try to learn about the other pandemics, fear coping skills, critical thinking skills, etc together. Learning things together with someone you love is very different to saying "here's a lesson". Good luck!!
so, on Chandu: Chandu said he was a chemist, he probably has a very advanced knowledge of how mathematics works at a high level. At that level, what Shannon said about "it's either right or wrong" is, in some ways, incorrect. Mathematics at a high level is a system of rules or language that are selected for by humans for its utility, often in the sciences for describing reality. It is quite common to do things like Chandu describes, especially in the sciences (although some more formal mathematicians hate it) where infinities are introduced directly into the equations and then manipulated and removed, in order to force certain parts of the equations to behave in a way that we can solve. These manipulations are then justified by the fact that they are performed with well-defined rules, and that when these rules are followed, we can empirically investigate the scientific predictions made by doing things in this way and we find they match what we see in reality.
Nondualism in theology? The claimed unity between god and man. In Christian myth, man being made in the image of god? Transubstantiation, again in Christian myth, the real presence of the god in a wafer consumed by humans to share remembrance of JC and substitutionary ransom? See John 6:53 Matt, I think one can link nondualism to an alleged god.
Dwayne Shaw Of course, we live in the world of the tangible. Yet, the occasional sojourn into the deep and meaningful or, even, meaningless, I feel is harmless.
AE is in 24th season. And here we are, with thread after thread, discussing things that don’t exist. I have been following AE for at least a year, so I am just as guilty as my fellow posters. That said, Thete been some really good discussions on occasion. What you allude about the danger in indwelling in the esoteric is true, including, the supernatural, as Galileo would have testified. He knew what he was “going to get,” if he persisted.
Love Shannon Q for this show. Also, Matt is a very intelligent guy, and with the amount of hours he has done this show, he has definitely heard every single variation of every argument for a god, and still remains an Atheist. That includes burning in hell if he doesn't accept several of the major god propositions that most humans believe. That says a lot.
I don't know what I know and if I say to opoen up your mind I wont know until I say it, And then we both can question any oither ways alternate lyric by me. Gr8! Peace ☮💜
OMG! I'm watching the Atheist Experience! I can't believe it! Like I clicked on the link and all but I was totally expecting a show about puppies. This is so cool!
Caller: "Matt Dillahinty? Wow, I can't believe it!" Me: "Ah, he's just starstruck 😊" Matt: "Why... the fuck...can't you believe it? Did you not know you were calling into the show? Was there no evidence of my existence?!" Everyone else: "Yeah, come on!" Me: " Come on guys maybe he's--" Matt: _tosses Shannon out a window_ Everyone: "..."
@@jaidev777 Yeah, total overreaction. Pretty much everyone listening to that call must have known what the caller meant. I mean, "I can't believe it" is a very common saying/expression. It doesn't literally mean you can't believe it. That doesn't mean I agree at all with what the caller said beyond that point though, lol.
@@martinbondesson Same here, I don't agree with the caller but it seemed so obvious to me that "I can't believe it" was just an expression of surprise. It's like saying Matt believes in god because he exclaims "oh my god!" when he's angry. I think Matt overreacted, which he does far too often, in my opinion. I like hearing Matt's reasoning, but that doesn't mean I must always agree with his conduct too.
@@jaidev777 I completely agree. And that becomes evident from the fact that he apparently feels the need to justify his freakouts every single episode nowadays. Sometimes I can understand, but he does it far too often, like you said. I wish more people would have the guts to call him out on it.
Shannon is a great addition to the show! Only point of constructive criticism would be to not read the screener's notes as much at the beginning of the call. If the call screener got something wrong it could look like the beginnings of a strawman and end up putting callers on the defensive immediately. Better to let them dig their own grave and put it in their own words! Besides the crazy belief surprise is part of the fun! :)
She has her own *Atheist* channel. You can watch them both everyday. How many shows out of Matt's *three thousand* have you watched? You could watch 3 shows a day, his new one every day plus two old ones every day, three shows a day, and not run out for *ten years!*
Shannon is such a good influence on Matt. They work so well together.
Sorry, I just don't understand how you could think that based on this episode. Matt was vicious in this episode, downright cruel at times, often for no justifiable reason. Shannon seemed to have no influence on Matt, positive or otherwise.
@@slaugmromni6743 How did you decide that he made his decision based on just this one episode?
@@slaugmromni6743 Did you miss his advice to jenna? Where he says to be compassionate and reasonable with her boyfriend.
And she gives off hot teacher vibes.
Omni. Yes. Exactly
Love that Shannon is on regularly. Her takes on the issues are always thoughtful.
4:25 Jenna in California: Boyfriend scared by coronavirus and wants to go back to being a Jehovah Witness
16:22 Ricky in Atlanta, Ga: Says Matt is wrong about Morality
39:28James in Maine wants to prove that Matt and Shannon already believe in God
43:00 call that broke Matt's zen. Mike in CA is a Christian, wants Matt on his side and says Matt is wrong about the context of slavery in the Bible.
45:51 Shannon almost spits out her drink when Matt said Mike is blowing him
50:43 Shandu in Ontario wants to know is non-dualism a problem from an atheist point of view
1:00:22 Jordan in CA asks Shannon and Matt what they think about the concept of a non sentient god being a metaphor for everything good in humanity and using this as a way of framing our world view
1:16:11 Journey in NC Shannon picks this caller to try and break Matt's Zen. Journey is a previous caller who wants to try again to define what the word god means
1:19:10 Alex in NJ was raised I a church, struggles with mental illness and wants to distance himself from spirituality
Doing the Lord's work ; ) thanks
FEAR GOD!!!! You understand that you just defined god into existence right? “These things” is too non-specific, I assume by creation, you refer to the universe. But you haven’t demonstrated that it is a creation. If you can, we can call it that, until you do, I’ll stick to universe.
@FEAR GOD!!!! Have you considered following some middle school science classes? It's probably far above your level but you'd learn some amazing science
@FEAR GOD!!!! "Can't have up without down, ...(other examples of disparity)... Can't have creation without a creator" creation and creator are not disparate at all. Complete non sequitur.
Yes, you cannot have light without darkness, but this has nothing to do with creation.
Please learn some basics about logical fallacies and then try again.
@FEAR GOD!!!! Please define creation. Are sand dunes created or are they natural formations based on the action of wind and its interaction with physical particles? Is there a sentient actor guiding these processes? If there are, please demonstrate how you know this and how we can observe it happening.
So happy that Shannon is now officially a host of TAE. This woman is amazing.
lol your image is like yuumi
And fine
@@rbname7318 ^
@@rbname7318 isn't she tho?
42:10 I was thinking "you know what would REALLY break Matt's zen? slavery!" - then the next caller comes right on cue :D
My mother is a JW and she is in the same mindset. Loving all this worldly turmoil. I've heard "it is soon" my whole life. Caronavirus is adding fuel to her fire. It is hard to see loved ones happy about the concept of billions dying. That is how it translates to an athiest.
I can't believe somebody is still trying to debate slavery with Matt :) unbelievable ...
Thank you so much crew! I appreciate you so much!
45:55 Shannon's reaction to Matt telling the guy to stop "blowing me about how good my content is" is amazing.
Thanks for that. I was listening to this while driving and didn’t see any of it. I scrolled to the marker - priceless reaction.
Caller #1, remind your boyfriend that there was a pandemic 100 years ago and the world didn't end.
Better yet, there have been many pandemics over the millennia. Literally since the start of recorded history, and no doubt before then as well. Yet, here we are. Some certainly thought the world was ending during each and every one of those events, but humans are persistent creatures. Not only have we survived epidemics and pandemics, but tsunamis, earthquakes and volcanoes, tornadoes and hurricanes, ice ages, comets and asteroids... Our planet isn't always placid and peaceful. In fact, it rarely is. Sure, some massive disaster might set us back for a while, wipe out some of of our tech, most likely kill a large percentage of the population, but homo sapiens sapiens are incredibly adaptable and we will eventually either evolve into something else or will simply stop adapting and die.
I love the new 100% Zen version of Matt.
I had this idea too! I have a few others too, actually. I'm going to put my comment of other ideas here too in case she sees this comment. It is a top comment right now. Hope thats ok OP!
🙋♀️𝐉𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐚 (1st caller) 𝐈 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐬𝐨𝐦𝐞, 𝐡𝐨𝐩𝐞𝐟𝐮𝐥𝐥𝐲, 𝐡𝐞𝐥𝐩𝐟𝐮𝐥 𝐢𝐝𝐞𝐚𝐬!
Have you tried showing him the past pandemics? There have been many pandemics. Its a part of human life. Maybe if you do that & remind him why he left, he'll come down enough that you can work through his fear together (because then he'd hopefully be more responsive & logical). Also, if you do try that, it may take more than one conversation. Be patient. Try to learn about the other pandemics, fear coping skills, critical thinking skills, etc together. Learning things together with someone you love is very different to saying "here's a lesson".
Good luck!!
The poor girl fell in love with an idiot. Dump him and find some one of your brain quality.
@@BeeTeaDubs thank you for the advice! I'm trying everything thing I can to save him. Xo
By Ricky’s definition, the Borg are perfectly moral.
elrojo79 I believe I understand what Ricky was trying to say. His downfall was trying to overly simplify a complicated subject, which I will now attempt to do myself. 😂 His arguments are summarized as follows and expounded on afterward:
1. Morality as a universal “ought” is subjective.
2. You cannot derive a rational universal “ought” out of morality that is subjective.
3. “Oughts” can only be rational if they appeal to rationality, not morality, which is subjective.
4a. If you cannot derive an “ought” out of morality, you cannot claim morality is prescriptive.
4b. Therefore the only morality we can agree upon as rational is descriptive ethics, which is totally distinctive from subjective prescriptive ethics.
5. The foundation of descriptive (NOT prescriptive) ethics is social cohesion.
1. Explanation:
If morality is subjective, it can only be proven to reside in your own mind, and no one else’s. So the Borg may not be moral to you but it can absolutely be moral to someone else, or moral to the Borg. There is no universal moral constant.
This is not to say *we don’t have* personal moral attitudes or that they shouldn’t factor in to *our own* rational calculations, but rather a recognition that once that is communicated to others, it is subjective and therefore loses all “oughtness”.
It’s important to totally separate our personal subjective moral feelings vs. a universal set of “ought” rules we can all hope to agree on. This type of “ought” has to be based on reason and objectivity rather than emotion and subjectivity.
2. Explanation:
If morality is subjective, we can’t ever hope to create an “ought” and successfully communicate that “ought” to others. We can only relay how *we* feel and not how *others* should feel.
3. Explanation:
Only once we know how someone else feels and we both agree to use reason can we say how someone *ought* to act if they want to be *rational,* but this should not be confused with morality. Morality is subjective and can never be rational. This is an important distinction because it fundamentally changes the meaning of the concept of morality in a way that may not be clear because we’re all using the same word, and this is why it’s so confusing.
When skeptics say we ought not murder people we’re appealing to reason, of which how we subjectively feel can of course play a part (lest we become logical positivists), but only as it fits into our rational model. When most theists say we ought not murder people they’re appealing to an axiomatic moral system that is outside reason itself.
We’re using the same words but the meaning behind the words are fundamentally different.
Skeptics make the mistake of thinking we’re talking about the same concepts when we actually aren’t.
4. Explanation:
The only type of morality that is objective and which we can hope to agree on is descriptive ethics, which does not say, “this is what you should do,” but lays out the conditions needed and predicts *when* you will say, “this is moral” and when you will say, “this is not moral.”
It focuses on what *is* considered moral and not what *ought* to be moral. It can only factor in as a set of facts when considering what we rationally “ought” to do.
5. Explanation:
Descriptive models of morality are 100% scientific and objective, because the models can make predictions and be tested for accuracy. An accurate model will make a prediction about what conditions have to be true for people to agree on morality. Social cohesion / consensus must be a fundamental condition for people to say “this is moral.”
I think if we look at the characteristics of the Borg I think we should agree that *they* must think they are acting morally. Why? Their social cohesion must be a crucial aspect of that. So if we’re looking at what conditions can reliably predict what people think is moral, social cohesion seems like a good fundamental starting point.
If Hitler succeeded in conquering the world and it produced the social cohesion he expected (a *big* “If”), it therefore means everyone would believe their world is moral. Of course it won’t be subjectively / prescriptively moral to *us,* but it would be descriptive to say is moral to *them,”* and that’s all science/reason can tell us. You could say colloquially, that’s all that matters “to the universe.”
This is not an *alternative* to prescriptive morality, we will still subjectively feel how we feel about Hitler. It’s an analytical approach to morality vs. an appeal to emotion, but therein lies its rationally. You can say it’s, “without soul,” and rightfully so because an immaterial soul cannot ever be rationally proven, ha. It’s never going to fill our emotional needs, much like a god can fill our emotional needs if you just believe in one without evidence, but that doesn’t make it rational.
But it’s the study of morality which we can then plug in to the rules about how we rationally “ought” to behave. Hitler’s steps to getting to social cohesion involved worldwide social incoherence, lol. A descriptive morality model would tell you that people are going to find Germany’s behavior immoral. Based off of this descriptive model you can plug it into a rational model to rationalize that it’s simply not going to work out well for you, therefore it’s *irrational* to “ought” to do so.
And *that* is the point I think Ricky was trying to make. 😂
@@AnonYMouse-ky4sg I appreciate you writing all that. Perhaps this is not a topic the show should spend much time discussing. It seems off topic.
45:51 Shannon almost spits out her drink cause Matt said Mike is blowing him lol
Shannon q is so brilliant she should be on this show every weekend
Matt says, "Atheism is a single position on a single issue." Shannon agrees. Their brilliance knows no bounds! I've been a minister for 40 years and it never even occurred to me I could have half a million followers with a single catch phrase, that I'd be revered as the intelligentsia of modern history. WOW, do you think they're through 5 Mensa exams without a single error too? SO many geniuses, where did all the stupid people go?
@@oursecretlord9008 atheism is a single position on a single issue not a catch phrase. It's just a simple fact . Make America great again or yes we can are catch phrases. I can tell you where all the stupid people went. To church on sunday
@@tylerlehman9427 Atheism is the general denial of the deity claim, and atheism is the denial of the claim "at least one deity exists" and "atheism is simple, it's a _lack of belief"_ and it's the claim "The brain produces the mind, this is what all the evidence indicates. When the brain is damaged the personality is damaged." And “You can do what you decide to do - but you cannot decide what you will decide to do.”
― Sam Harris, Free Will. Atheism is saying, "You don't even know what atheism even is." How could anyone?, it changes meaning every time the word is mentioned.
Those are a lot of issues on a lot of positions on those issues. Sort of like a side in a dispute. If all one does is says what their side is then you should be satisfied with "at least one deity exists." If you can't disprove that statement then I have no obligation to give you the argument I just did decimating your side, you know, in this culture war, my war against Matt Dillahunty's cult of personality.
Additionally, Matt has 3000 shows, and this single mantra. There's something of the mystical going on here. How many hours does it take to say that one sentence you claim isn't a catch phrase? There's another position on another issue.
Anything but a fair and balanced evaluation of the evidence, that's more like what "atheism is." You all claim just to be here on Matt Dillahunty's uploads because you enjoy roasting your debate opponents. The time for roasting is after the case has been ruled in your favor, not when Matt decides how much time he is given and how much his debate opponent (opposing counsel). Atheism is being the judge and a participant of a dispute.
*Catch Phrase*
noun. a phrase that attracts or is meant to attract attention. a phrase, as a slogan, that comes to be widely and repeatedly used, often with little of the original meaning remaining.
I was being generous in my attribution of "catch phrase." What you all actually have are lies and roasts over your lies.
@@oursecretlord9008 had you stopped at atheism is simple it's a lack of belief you would have been correct. All the crap about a mind and personality is not atheism it's his personal beliefs. Your problem is you think atheism goes further than I dont believe in god. So you basis that if something is said alot it's a catch phrase. So how about the stock market went up or the stock market went down. How many times has that been said? Is that a catch phrase
@@oursecretlord9008 cult of personality lol. I personally think mat is a bit brash in his delivery . I dont blame him because he has been debating religious nuts for so many years anyone would start to get angry. That's why shannon q is a good addition she is brilliant and knows the psychology religous people have to believe in the god delusion.
Love and hugs for The Crew
The letters of both Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis, wherein they quote extensively from the Bible, should leave no doubt that believers through history have justified slavery using scripture. Funny, in these comments I've seen the "...that's not really in the Bible" claim, as well as the"...slavery really wasn't that bad" argument (by the same comenter).
I've wondered about Exodus 21:26 where if you put out a slave's eye, you must set him/her free. So you damage someone so they probably can't feed themselves or get any type of job, then you say " hey, cheer up, you're free! Good luck !
But..... But..... But things were DIFFERENT back then! Don't you understand? It helped the slaves! They were only workers!!! 🙄 Yes, the apologetics are crazy and desperate at this point.
@@ptuffgong8504 Hey, is that a Bob Marley reference? I've been made aware( to my horror) that there are still white Americans who have the story that "...slaves in the US had it pretty good", as well as the "..things were different back then" lie. Not one person making that case would think any of those things if they had to live under the conditions of the average field slave for say ...a month.
No, it was Christianity that got rid of slavery in the US. Christians know that Jesus is antislavery. That is just silly. Did Martin Luther King and other Black Christians think Jesus is okay with slavery. NO. You cant keep using a few verses that are hard to understand in context to prove the God Jesus bad... oh I guess you can keep doing it... weird how the physics ruling your brain cells let you keep doing something wrong.
@@russellmillar7132 Nice! It's not often people understand my RUclips name. Yes. Bob Marley. I had to throw the silent P at the front. Don't want to step on Bob's toes.
@@cgeemailx4037 Sorry bruh. It was Christianity that justified slavery in the first place. If Jesus was anti slavery he would have said "Don't have slaves!!" Instead he said "slaves obey your masters". Jesus anti slavery? Try again my friend. And please don't use the word "context". That's the most pathetic apologetic of all apologetics.
Journey phoned in to say "Don't stop believing".
LOL!
Welcome Shannon. You’re a natural at this!
Sharp as a tack, and assertive enough to keep AXP from being "The Matt-show". A rare combination, I hope she becomes/stays a regular.
for some reason when my eyes scanned your comment i thought you had said "you have natural tits"... i had to do a double take haha
I am super impressed with Shannon. She rocks! I love her energy.
Shes pro abortion. That's disgusting.
I did the same thing the first caller's boyfriend is doing right now. I broke up with my girlfriend and cut all ties with her and my "worldly" friends and ran back to the JW cult when Desert Storm broke out. It terrified me so bad I ran back and got baptized within the first year. The fear brainwashing is SO extreme. I also got married to a witness 6 months later. Long story short, 1 year and 8 months later, she cheated on me, denied it, and left. Then I was "publicly reproved" and shunned by every JW I new, and left for the final time at around 23. When we get past this and the world doesn't end (again), hopefully, he will come around and leave again.
One of the first-recorded uses of this phrase was by the character Lady Macbeth in Act 3, Scene 2 of the tragedy play Macbeth (early 17th century), by the English playwright William Shakespeare, who said: "Things without all remedy Should be without regard: what's done, is done"
That's rough. I left the Mormon church. Losing so many family and friends is crushing. But you deserve better.
Brave of u to leave twice!
Great show once again! Shannon adds so much to the discussion! Keep up the great content!
New Rule: Do Not Eat Breakfast while watching the show. I watched Shannon say she was trying to break Matt's Zen with such zeal and glee that I shot a Cheerio out of my nose.
Honey nut or regular Cheerios?
I've said before and I'll say it again: “Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe anything because it s found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept and live up to it.” --- Buddha Siddhartha Gautama Shakyamuni
I think at this point the slavery callers are just trolls. It seems to come up every week.
What kind of engineer are you?
@@inertiaforce7846 electrical engineer
@@Engineer_Heathen damb.
Like your opening song. Very fitting for the atheist experience channel. 👍
We've known for years that pandemics are almost inevitable. As a medical-adjacent staffperson, I have attended several conferences over the years to discuss what protocols would be *when* a pandemic took hold in the US. There have been several close calls in the past. But they were taken more seriously by the gov't officials whose job it is to attend to such matters.
This was not a surprise to the gov't the way it was to the public. Would her boyfriend be so convinced about the "end times" if he knew it was expected (at some point)?
Seeing that a lot of these pandemics are zoonotic in nature...stopping with animal agriculture would be a good start
To play the devil's advocate here...
The Bible predict times of pest, so it is expected (at some point) in his religious world view.
So it wouldn't change his conviction, it's expected under both his conflicting world views and the fear response took over the (hopefully) reasonable cause that made him leave JW in the first place.
I think it's better to remind him of those reasons and think about if anything have changed.
Then at least it might lead to christianity in a slightly less destructive cult, at best the reason can overcome the fear.
It couldn't make a difference to him. Last week on TH, they had a caller who said that the Bible predicted that in the end times there would be thieves and liars. Weren't there thieves and liars in biblical times? Not much of a bloody prophecy. It's like predicting there will be earthquakes, floods and natural disasters. Those things have happened every year since people started recording them.
@@maemorri "Things will be as it have always been in the past".
That is the shittiest profecy anyone can make and still, some people seem convinced from that.
I agree, it would make none or very little difference to him.
The first caller’s premise was correct. He just didn’t clearly highlight that the social cohesion he was referring to only applies to an individual’s “tribe.” As that tribe expands, so too do the “rules” of morality within that tribe.
jamier26 It was the second caller. I’m not sure what you’re saying. Yes, the social cohesion only applies to whatever population subset you’re measuring.
Matt has been wonderful over the last month. Love Zen Matt - and great that he's still savage with all the bigots.
Except when he went full-jackass in the beginning of Mike's call (I cant believe etc).
@@m9frank Yeah, he's better than that. Hate it when he lets his frustration/emotions get the better of him.
Matt, what you said during the Ricky call about morality was simply beautiful. Social cohesion is only desirable when it arises from people excersizing their freedom. That phrase beautifully encapsulates what core of Western representative democracy.
Your comment is stated very well too Sir.
Agreed cohesion is desirable is if it comes as a result of understanding our shared humanity. Enforced cohesion would be a nightmare
Voice I hear inside my head it's "inner speech"- it's monologue (or dialogue?) with myself. Mine is loud. I often argue with my self. I've never thought that it's a god. One time I had a big problem. I thought about it all day. Next morning I woke up with brilliant solution. It was my brain- working during my sleep, not god or angel.
Dokładnie :)
@@Domee894 dzięki. Thanks.
My inner speech sometimes strays into private speech, where I'll actually vocalise one or even both sides of the conversation.
@@andybeans5790 I often play scenarios in my head. If I have some argument with someone, or importand conversation in the future: so if he says this:..... I say this:.....Or he will say something like this:.... I will respond with that:.... I'm doing this to be better prepared. Worst things are flashbacks. If someone said something hurtful, it's stays with me forever. It is damaging.
@@ewaszorek3591 yup, I rehearse future arguments and replay previous issues far too much, but I'm learning to spot when it's becoming cyclical and to break out of the loop.
Shannon Q is excellent. Fantastically insightful.
I love this new 100% Zen version of Matt.
100% Zen like Coke Zero is 100% water lol He really tried though, I'll give him that.
Yes! Only 99% of non zen! But like you said, he's trying. I love Shannon Q as well.
@@ptuffgong8504 Shannon is quick as a whip, man, she works really well with Matt as a counterpoint that understand the psychology - Matt can address the logical arguments, she takes em down on the mental front.
@@titusgray4598 Perfectly stated my friend.
Jenna's boyfriend said the j.w's claimed to have predicted the covid pandemic in 2015. In doesn't take a Devine prophesy to predict that some kind of pandemic would come from markets in China or elsewhere in Asia. The Simpsons did it like 25 or 30 years ago, and the movie "contagion" did it about 10 years ago. It was bound to happen at some point.
The Jws didn't predict it they quoted from a scientific magazine. So the scientific magazine predicted it.
SARS, MERS, Ebola, H1N1 - there's a steady stream of viruses, and more are coming, and they've actually been there for all of recorded history. There's a "history of pandemics" video that's worth checking out.
A prediction of disease outbreaks is about as prophetic as the weather. "omg rain, it's the RAPTURE".
@@adielkilonzi99 yes! How funny that they will quote worldly people, and take credit for it! Xx Jenna
@Anzu Wyliei There is no god, only Zuul.
@Anzu Wyliei You're not not wrong.
With my small, tiny, little voice in this hugh, immense, and seemingly never-ending universe and cosmos i would like to whisper...........Thank you Matt Dillahunty!! You're one of my heroes!
Never heard of a hugh universe
I love the duo! It would be interesting to see Matt play peacekeeper while Shannon goes off.
Great job Shannon!
BTW: Where is Jenna Belk been?
I think they got rid of her. She wasnt very good
Harems
@@Josh-mh3kl Anthony is a hack
@@bradchervel5202 How did your comment "they got rid of her" get 6 likes?? Lol
@@jaidev777 It was the, she wasnt very Good, part.
Shannon and Matt are amazing. Matt is Matt, which is awesome, but Shannon has the knowledge, assertiveness, and critical thinking skills to play perfectly with Matt.
The DEFINITION of slavery is INVOLUNTARY servitude. Therefore, there CANNOT BE slavery that is voluntary when the DEFINITION is that it's involuntary. Have a nice day.
The old testament have to be understood with the cultural context of that time in mind. In the past, there were plenty of violence such as wars occurring all the time and technologies were still primitive. It is through the effort of our ancestors that have given to us a good life and we should not take that for granted.
@@frostmourne4598 And you should read what I wrote above one more time because apparently you didn't understand it.
@@inertiaforce7846 When there is a huge number of people given freewill (voluntary), what happens is that unfairness do happen. However, I believe that when the time is up for them, God will pass judgment on them to be fair and to uphold justice. An analogy: If you are an animal such as a fish, you get caught in the net thrown by humans, they cook and eat you. That is a case of involuntary action. However, if you do pray to god sincerely, I believe he intervenes appropriately to solve the problem of people imposing their freewill at the expense of others.
@@frostmourne4598 And I believe that your christian god is fake.
@@inertiaforce7846 That is exactly what I thought. I was such a determined atheist until one time I said to myself that I will believe if I see it with my own eyes. Immediately at the outset of the Covid period, I started encountering something abnormal, it appears a ghost was tormenting me. My encounter is with a poltergeist. It makes "popping sounds" that coincides at the exact time of my thoughts. At first I dismissed it, then as a skeptic I tried to verify it with all sorts of methods. It then became too obvious as if he/she wanted me to know he/she is there. Seeing is really believing.. then again if you want such an encounter, you can always pray to god for it.. I'm sure those ghosts are more than willing but be prepared mentally for all sorts of mental torture.
After my terrible experience with the poltergeist, I told myself I took for granted the kindness of God that he didn't show me anything before the experience. Thus, I'm sharing my experiences sincerely with everyone here for whoever is reading this.
My husband was a JW and I tried them out. Well they were holding a study with our small kids in 1976 when I over heard her telling them they did not have to worry about growing up since the end would come. I immediately offered her the door and we never went back.
Well, Zen Matt lasted until 49:30.
Lolll longer than I expected
I would have lost money if I bet on it. I suppose it depends on the caller's but zen master Matt is not something I would be willing to bet on
Tbf I would've lost it if people is advocating for slavery.
@Beep Boop
Actually, I believe that he went to a seminary.
Which is a form of college.
Actually, during to Middle Ages, joining the clergy was for most people, the only way to learn how to read/get an education.
And if Republicans had their way, we'd go back to that system.
@Beep Boop Why don't you call in then
I like how Matt doesn't suffer fools....get 'em Matt!!!
@@ookeekthelibrarian 😀😃😁
I get the impression Matt is trying to impress Shannon... But then who wouldn't? Brains AND beauty!
I would too.
@@inertiaforce7846 Absolutely!
And a Doctor Who fan. According to her TARDIS mug.
We don’t need teach religion to make people good. We need to teach empathy.
I see you two are onto something. I'm as familiar with God as any human being that's ever lived and so I know what you two are talking about is the crux of the whole deal.
Both of your points are amazingly succinct while plumbing the depths of truths via our discursive intellect.
Let me put in my 1.5 trillion dollars worth. Theological Grace. I've been a minister for a few thousand years, well, two anyway, and when I figured out what a Divine Grace is, it changed every aspect of my life.
Love
…12Now we see but a dim reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 13And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love; but the greatest of these is love.
I Corinthians 13:12-13. these three are Theological (Divine) Graces or Virtues. I don't make myself holy, I can't make myself have empathy, it can't ever be my job.
Irrelevant but important to me side note (Bing not Google) you can discover my Holy Cross the most sacred Holy Cross in human history atop Mt. Rubidoux rests as the apex at 1331 ft. (1 Corinthians 13:13, a permeation I guess, but it's in there.) My Son Jason, named after the Friday the 13th character was born All Hallows Eve, Friday the 13th is our Illuminati day, 13 our number. 1331
@@oursecretlord9008
- Paid no attention to the OP.
- Addressed your reply to the 'show hosts' for some reason?!
- And then analyse a book of fantasy stories.
I can't make myself have faith, it is a path of ignorance.
Yahoooo! Shannon’s officially part of the show 🥰👌
Shannon is incredibly good at this. This pair compliment each other well in their approaches and styles. Great work!
I survived around 65 end of the worlds.
Your a lucky man. I've only survived 24.
...and all you got was this lousy t-shirt.
How old are you??
1. That could be a t-shirt. With the "this lousy t-shirt" part, optionally, on back.
2, Maybe like an "[ ] accident-free days" sign posted at work.
*Ends of the world survived: [ ]* (hanging cards)
3. Or Ends of the World?
Like Solicitors General
4. OP may be estimating based on x/year.
In the Army, when somebody says something stupid over the radio, we used to call them back and say “Say again, you’re coming in broken and stupid.”😂
Timestamps?
I for one think the caller around 30 min. made sense. The knee jerk reaction to dismiss his thesis about morality as a kind of illusion was disappointing and - frankly - struck me as an unwillingness to entertain a fresh, radical perspective that could've led somewhere.
Oh I love this episode. Matt trying to be zen is hilarious. More patience than I have for nonsense.
Agreed
Love and Fear are existential emotions, but they are still chemical and neuronal reasons why we react and may believe in it. In hindsight of fear from covid, we need to learn from our feelings of fear and what that actually meant, and means now. Blame on the "supernatural" for internal "self" should never be the first "go to", to move forward with life. Gr8! Peace ☮💜
Shannon Q is such a great counterpart to Matt. Together they do Incredible.
@@robertwadlow9050
Then why don't you tell them and show the world how great you are ?
Get you on the show? All you need to do is call the number on screen.
I saw few young Americans answering the question of when America became independent was 1977, most don’t know when was WWII and who fought in it, they also don’t know what the Cold war was and who first set foot on the moon. Obviously they never heard of the Spanish flu that originated in the USA and killed an estimate of 25 to 50 millions worldwide, meanwhile WWI killed another 22 million, and 20 years later WWII killed 85 millions. This is the price you pay for not having history programs at school that teach you the past, every time is a new experience , a new fear and tragically a repetition of past mistakes of judgement.
Ok, I didn't know who Shannon Q was. Now I know Shannon Q is a huge nerd and I can't help but to have a crush on her.
Get in line!😁
She's quite fit, not huge at all 😁
A woman into philosophy that wears glasses with a cute accent and pretty smile. That's my type right there!
jezah H Don’t forget her TARDIS mug.
@Comrade NB Yeah.
Love the direct quote from the Big Lebowski.
"let's stick with slavery"
You done goofed.
God endorses slavery in the Bible, is that what you believe?
He at the very least ignores it, and is apparently ok with his chosen people kidnapping foreigners - men, women and children for manual labor aka slavery and forced “marriages” aka sex slavery. He’s also comfortable with ignoring rapists that buy their victim from their parents for a handful of cash.
Genocide is ok as well, He’s done it personally on a global scale, destroyed a couple of towns and told his chosen people to kill for him too.
As an ex JW I feel sympathy for the 1st caller. Watchtower did not predict a pandemic back in 2015, they simply quoted scientific opinion at the time on pandemics. Jehovahs Witnesses predicted it in the same way that the film Contagion did.
Coronavirus is a heading or umbrella term for a thousand different types of viruses. One became pandemic because it wasn't quarantined in time. No predictions are necessary. It's a brute fact if we don't clean up the insidious health conditions in China, then we're all doomed.
@@trustinjesus1119 Sadly the mindset of JWs is not based on facts. It is based on their interpretation of the bible, and the belief that Armageddon is looming. God is coming to kill all non JWs. Wars, earthquakes plagues are all biblical signs of this. They are an "end of the world" religion.
@@julespetyt6930 In some sense what you're saying is true, there are people who have doctrines. My parents taught it to me like this, "If all of your friends thought it was a good idea to jump off a bridge, just make sure you go last."
I only know one person who really goes by facts. For instance, he showed me how my noetic subsystem of mind, my intentional consciousness, is _evaluative_ and *supervisory.*
Jules, I never considered that fact before, but I've experienced it 7 or 8 ways every second of my life over the last 500,000 hours of my life, I'm 58.
Don't you evaluate and supervise your self, data you choose to direct your attention to?
Yes, unless you're different than me, in an entirely different category. I recommend you watch this movie, _The Children Act._ IT stars Emma Thompson.
I don't put _any stock_ in the JW mindset of the "Atheist." I direct my awareness.
Great show, guys. :)
My wife is a Filipino catholic. She raised our son to be Catholic, with Catholic school. I never said anything about religion to our son until he was 16. At that age he said to me, "You believe in God right?" I said not and the conversation ended. Since then he has never asked about god; described his belief in god: or said anything to me about god. I strived during my son's young life that he should think for himself an not believe what others tell him. To this day, I do not know what he actually believes, but I hope that he has come to his own conclusion based on truth.
:
"I'm a humanist and xenophobia is good."
Wait, what?
They didn't mean "good" per se. Just that it happened to be questionably beneficial in a way that it played a part in primitive human beings and our struggle to survive. He was probably still wrong in what his point was though, but I'm in traffic and can't analyze it atm.
I'm a humanist and a misanthrope.
@@chrismathis4162 I think I'm similar, I'm pretty asocial but I value human wellbeing... if everyone could just be well _somewhere else_ that'd be great.
What he was getting to about xenophobia is more or less correct.
Its been found to be tied to our tribalistic nature, which is a direct result of our evolutionary history. Human beings evolved/adapted to functioning in small nomadic hunterer-gatherer tribes, thus we have an in-group out-group bias, and we generally fear those that we consider to not be part of our in-group.
This is why we form tribes universally, in every continent, country, and even based on things that you'd think are unlikely, such as favorite sports team, political party, religious denomination, etc.
This "those people over there are like that, we're like this so we're better" is also a mentality that has its ties to this evolutionary trait.
Now, xenophobia, tribalism, in-group out-group bias, all of this has a biological basis, but that doesnt mean it cant be overcome. There have already been many examples in different cultures/societies where these biases are overcome or compensated for, so it isnt "hard nature" per se. Nurture plays a big role, so its important to remember that the behavior of human beings is a result of Nature + Nurture combined.
Atheism is the denial of the claim "at least one deity exists." That's the main one. When it's suggested, "I"m not making the claim at least one deity exists so you don't get to be an atheist" the oft heard (read online) response is, "No, no, no, I'm an atheist all the time. I lack belief of gods all the time." So, it's that and not waiting for someone to make the claim "at least one deity exists" so that claim gets denied, that's off the table, it's now this other thing, it's where one who lacks belief of gods all the time.
Stay with me now tama, I plan on helping you see something here. Thus, because we now *know* beyond a rational doubt that "atheism is the lack of belief of gods all the time" it necessarily can't be "Atheism is the denial of the claim at least one deity exists."
O.k.?
Now, to your question, whoever in the holy fvck suggested that here in Matt Dillahunty Paradise, is as big a moron as the people who make this argument for "atheism" where it morphs from one thing to another in every comment.
Seems like the ability to have quality conversation (healthy back and forth) has significantly gone down due to the pressure to get to increased number of callers. Any tiny distraction away from point results in disconnection - its like they are looking for excuses to just move on constantly. Conversations arent fullfiling any more.
I agree, I'm starting to veer away from the show. I don't see the point in shouting down people with even slightly differing opinions. I thought it was about open discussion, but I think I was very mistaken.
I hate to admit that you might have a point there. I'm still a fan of the show and watch it every week.
THE ZEN MASTER OF ATHEISM!!!! Now that is a HOOOT!!!
Yeah, Matt would be a horribly bad buddhist. :D
56:43 They talk about the concept of infinity and how it is used in maths. I don't think Matt is right about disagreeing with Mathmaticians. I study computer science in university and that includes quite a lot of maths and from what I understand Infinity is only ever used as a concept. Yes you sometimes use the infinity symbol in equations but that comes with the understanding that this is an abstract concept. You might see stuff like the sum of 1 + 2 + 3 .. infinitely many times is infinity (probably a too simplistic example) but for people studying math that comes with the knowledge that this has a specific meaning. Infinite sums like that basically mean that there is no upper bound (no maximum) for an equation like this. Other equations like lets say 1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + ... = 2 dont mean that this infinite sum is equal to 2 but that it gets closer and closer to 2 the more numbers you add. With each additional term you add the number gets bigger, but it will never be greater than 2.
Those equations use the concept of infinity but they don't treat it as a number.
Granted there are special areas where people treat infinity as a number but then they are aware of that conflict and its more of a hypothetical exercise of what if .... This can be really interesting because it can lead to new discoveries that can then be applied back to more normal kinds of mathematics (in some cases). The same is true for concepts like irrational numbers (pi, e) or even imaginary numbers (sqrt(-1) = i).
i'm with you, and the mathematicians. Infinity is used a lot, and as you say often maths asks "as we approach infinity, what happens".
What a power move putting Shannon on as a cohost she’s coherent in her thoughts, knowledgeable, intelligent and cute af. I don’t even 🤔 i heard her say umm
1:07 You can't think of a moral system based on manipulation of fear response? Our system of law, which is an attempt at a moral system, is based on exactly that. People fear the punishment of getting caught and jailed.
Jenna, you should check out the John Cedars channel on RUclips. He actually has a video refuting the Watchtower article you mentioned. Plus there's a lot of other great videos that might help. Good luck.❤
Thank you! I've obsessively watched/listened to his channel. Xx
@@worldlywoman9136 I'm so glad I was able to point you in the right direction! Lloyd is a bloody legend, his work is fantastic. ❤ Atheist love to you from Australia! Xx
@Swlightdreamer1985 thank you. Way ahead of you lol I listen to his jw videos as well. Have a great day xx
I'm a life long Atheist and really don't understand Theists. In my country I've always been out, it's all very strange to me.
Wait, does Matt Dillahunty like Buffy the Vampire Slayer? That is amazing.
God as an antitheist concept, is exactly what Satanism is trying to do. It simply demonstrates how broken the concept is. Gr8! Peace ☮💜
I think this pandemic hit religious people more. It hit us atheists also but we are not in shock because we are not afraid of dead, but isn’t it weird that people that believe in a afterlife are more afraid of dead?
Well, I'm an atheist and I'm terrified of death.
martinbondesson Well stop. 😀
martinbondesson Same. The pain/suffering beforehand and the fact that I’ll be here one minute and gone the next. I wonder, when we have to put animals down, do they know they’re going to die?
@@Monotonous-Tedium Oh I wish I could :) If it were only that easy.
I relate to the first caller - ever since Covid my mom has non stop been watching sermons about how this is a sign of the end of the world and all that. It’s been a year since I quit church, but listening to the sermons causes me a whole bunch of anxiety and I hate that feeling
If he considers calling in again, Ricky should lose that number.
Inspired. Thanks
Thanks. Thanks a lot. Now that song is playing in my head.
Bonus points for the Steely Dan reference.
He's the only one I--i want.
Be yourself, Matt. You don't have to change and be all Zen. We love you the way you are.
Shannon Q is an articulate beast!
........uh......no.
She is cute and funny and in her narrow field.......smart.
But she is mostly...........woo--woo.
@@majoroz4876 I've heard zero woo from her.
Please have timestamps must need, I been watching your content for a while now. Thank you!
re: chandu at like 58:00 christ, why can't people get to their goddamn point? start with your conclusion and then support it. they let this guy talk for so many minutes without saying a goddamn thing. how are people so bad at this?
I think defining morality via social cohesion is certail one way to do it. The choice of goals is completely subjective after all.
To Jenna, the first caller: There are people and organisations to help the two of you a lot better, butsince I am an ex-jw myself, if i can do anything, let me know.
Bruder, I associated with Jehovah's witnesses myself at one time. I am so tired of them.
Here's a funny story, that my grandmother told me about first reactions.
When my uncles (x3) were 5,6,7, and had grown up in a small town they had NEVER seen a black person before.
One day this very dark black man came into town and when my uncles saw him, they ran and hid in some bushes
and were afraid to come out. He was friendly and tried to coax them out, but to no avail. (north Ontario 1945)
Good grief I hate being old! Shannon Q is just incredible I could just listen to her voice explaining science for ever.
lol! A couple of years ago I was talking to a "young puppy," who was looking forward to starting university that fall. I was about to share some of my university experience, but as I heard the words, "I left university nearly 25 years ago" fall out of my mouth, I cut myself off (having never before realized it was the case that I'm 25 years AFTER university), said *"F&CK YOU!* and turned around to hide my shame. It's like the first time I ID'd a girl (I'm a waiter/bartender) who was, in addition to being legal, born the year I started high school. I handed her back her ID and said that I cannot accept what is obviously a lie, being perpetuated for no reason other than to feed my insecurities.
That train made me launch my coffee cup 😂 🤣 hehehe
I LOVE Shannon on the show!! So glad she is going to be on more often!! 😍
Rebecca G You look a bit like her.....are you sisters.
SuperEdge67 I wish!! I’ll take that as a compliment tho, I think she is beautiful. 🤩
Great to have you Shannon as a co-host. You and Matt make a great team.
But I like NON Zen Matt. He is much more fun.
Lol
TIME STAMPS!!
*Time stamps, please.
I loveee Shannon!! And Matt of course! This is gonna be a good one 😁😁😁
wow! Another GREAT show! Thanks guys!!!!
🙋♀️𝐉𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐚 (1st caller) 𝐈 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐬𝐨𝐦𝐞, 𝐡𝐨𝐩𝐞𝐟𝐮𝐥𝐥𝐲, 𝐡𝐞𝐥𝐩𝐟𝐮𝐥 𝐢𝐝𝐞𝐚𝐬!
Have you tried showing him the past pandemics? There have been many pandemics. Its a part of human life. Maybe if you do that & remind him why he left, he'll come down enough that you can work through his fear together (because then he'd hopefully be more responsive & logical). Also, if you do try that, it may take more than one conversation. Be patient. Try to learn about the other pandemics, fear coping skills, critical thinking skills, etc together. Learning things together with someone you love is very different to saying "here's a lesson".
Good luck!!
Bumping this in hopes Jenna will see it🙂
so, on Chandu: Chandu said he was a chemist, he probably has a very advanced knowledge of how mathematics works at a high level. At that level, what Shannon said about "it's either right or wrong" is, in some ways, incorrect. Mathematics at a high level is a system of rules or language that are selected for by humans for its utility, often in the sciences for describing reality. It is quite common to do things like Chandu describes, especially in the sciences (although some more formal mathematicians hate it) where infinities are introduced directly into the equations and then manipulated and removed, in order to force certain parts of the equations to behave in a way that we can solve. These manipulations are then justified by the fact that they are performed with well-defined rules, and that when these rules are followed, we can empirically investigate the scientific predictions made by doing things in this way and we find they match what we see in reality.
Matt and Shannon are the perfect team!
Nondualism in theology? The claimed unity between god and man. In Christian myth, man being made in the image of god? Transubstantiation, again in Christian myth, the real presence of the god in a wafer consumed by humans to share remembrance of JC and substitutionary ransom? See John 6:53 Matt, I think one can link nondualism to an alleged god.
Dwayne Shaw Great examples of mystic nondualism. 👍
Dwayne Shaw Of course, we live in the world of the tangible. Yet, the occasional sojourn into the deep and meaningful or, even, meaningless, I feel is harmless.
AE is in 24th season. And here we are, with thread after thread, discussing things that don’t exist. I have been following AE for at least a year, so I am just as guilty as my fellow posters. That said, Thete been some really good discussions on occasion.
What you allude about the danger in indwelling in the esoteric is true, including, the supernatural, as Galileo would have testified. He knew what he was “going to get,” if he persisted.
Woo hoo, fellow Canadian Shannon, Matt and Crew, Love Ya!!!!
"i'm right, but shannon's more right" - Matt Dillahunty, 2020
How come that's not on a sweatshirt in the AXP store yet?
Love Shannon Q for this show. Also, Matt is a very intelligent guy, and with the amount of hours he has done this show, he has definitely heard every single variation of every argument for a god, and still remains an Atheist. That includes burning in hell if he doesn't accept several of the major god propositions that most humans believe. That says a lot.
Well you first have to demonstrate a god exists to be fearful of a supposed hell.
I don't know what I know and if I say to opoen up your mind
I wont know until I say it,
And then we both can question any oither ways
alternate lyric by me. Gr8! Peace ☮💜
OMG! I'm watching the Atheist Experience! I can't believe it! Like I clicked on the link and all but I was totally expecting a show about puppies. This is so cool!
kasplatz
I see what you did there. 😆
Caller: "Matt Dillahinty? Wow, I can't believe it!"
Me: "Ah, he's just starstruck 😊"
Matt: "Why... the fuck...can't you believe it? Did you not know you were calling into the show? Was there no evidence of my existence?!"
Everyone else: "Yeah, come on!"
Me: " Come on guys maybe he's--"
Matt: _tosses Shannon out a window_
Everyone: "..."
@@jaidev777 Yeah, total overreaction. Pretty much everyone listening to that call must have known what the caller meant. I mean, "I can't believe it" is a very common saying/expression. It doesn't literally mean you can't believe it. That doesn't mean I agree at all with what the caller said beyond that point though, lol.
@@martinbondesson Same here, I don't agree with the caller but it seemed so obvious to me that "I can't believe it" was just an expression of surprise. It's like saying Matt believes in god because he exclaims "oh my god!" when he's angry. I think Matt overreacted, which he does far too often, in my opinion. I like hearing Matt's reasoning, but that doesn't mean I must always agree with his conduct too.
@@jaidev777 I completely agree. And that becomes evident from the fact that he apparently feels the need to justify his freakouts every single episode nowadays. Sometimes I can understand, but he does it far too often, like you said. I wish more people would have the guts to call him out on it.
Good cop, bad cop. I fuckin love it! lmao
Shannon is a great addition to the show! Only point of constructive criticism would be to not read the screener's notes as much at the beginning of the call. If the call screener got something wrong it could look like the beginnings of a strawman and end up putting callers on the defensive immediately. Better to let them dig their own grave and put it in their own words! Besides the crazy belief surprise is part of the fun! :)
Matt, you did well. Shannon, it was good to have you back. I would watch you two every day.
She has her own *Atheist* channel. You can watch them both everyday. How many shows out of Matt's *three thousand* have you watched? You could watch 3 shows a day, his new one every day plus two old ones every day, three shows a day, and not run out for *ten years!*
Poor Ricky, seems very intelligent, but Matt is not about nihilism.
Love how Matt pretty much put out the challenge for Shannon to break his zen