Theist asks Matt for help with dying atheist daughter | Jamie - Arkansas | Atheist Experience 23.45
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- Опубликовано: 31 окт 2019
- The Atheist Experience 23.45 for October 27, 2019 with Don Baker and Matt Dillahunty.
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Matt telling her to leave it to God was BRILLIANT. There was really no point in challenging her belief in God during this call. Providing this woman valuable advice that fits her worldview was an excellent choice.
@@GrimMelvin Matt truly handled it beautifully
in fact, by not arguing with her and saying the things he said in the way he said it may actually bring her to question more of the previous misconceptions she may have had about atheism and theism. I would say that, when reflecting upon this call later on, she might begin questioning more things. Chances are she'll call in at a later date to try and get more information on Matt's views on many of those questions. It might cause her to reconnect with her daughter postmortem in a way she couldn't have during her life...
I agree with all of that for sure. It's unfortunate that she likely won't have that realization and connection until after her daughter dies
Although that argument kind of ignores the real reason that she mentioned earlier...that she is disrespecting her daughter because who cares she'll be dead soon...don't want the surviving family to talk crap about me
@@imnotdavidxnsx I have to say that's not entirely true. She was torn between respecting her daughter's wishes and the wishes of the remaining family members. I can sort of understand (although I think the remaining family members are utterly despicable if they cannot respect the daughter's wishes), in the end, Jamie has to deal with the ones that remain until her own death. That on top of the fact that she might feel some misplaced guilt for not doing enough to save her from hell, I can kind of understand her dilemma. Don't paint all christians as monsters. Attack the religion, not the religious.
Credit where credit is due. Jamie is reaching out to the atheist community, which her daughter is a part of, to try and make the most of the time she has left with her daughter.
I never once got the impression that she was looking for her daughter to admit she was right. Just that Jamie loves her. So, good on Jamie.
daniel letterman we can only hope.
noticed that too. shows a deeper sign of compassion
John Ploopy the best lines always come to us after the fact.
Nick Okona unless you’re hitchens
Adam Stein ya. He seemed to always have one on deck.
Its calls like this where this show truly shines
This poor lady is torn between her Church and the love she has for her daughter. Her daughter and her grandchildren are more important than any church. Matt you and Don did a wonderful talk with this lady. You could feel the tension go out of her voice.
I would hope EVERY atheist act the same way.
This is legit the most moving call, with some pretty brilliant answers, especially towards the end.
LMAO!....................................................
Absolutely. This is just more evidence that Matt and company have bigger hearts than the hypocritical Bible thumpers..
A near-impossible situation handled with empathy and honesty simultaneously. Matt at his best.
I agree. I thought they were both great with this caller. They were thoughtful, compassionate, empathetic, etc.
Matt sucks
Athiests are some of the dumbest people on earth
@@jimgreco6279 You're a fucking clown. Go fuck yourself.
I agree "Matt at his best".
I think it was said here best. "If you can't respect someone's wishes when they are dead. Then you never respected them, when they were alive."
I dont think thats necessarily true since living and dead are 2 very different states.
@@shr00mhead put in a better wording, "if you can't respect a person when they have lost everything in the entire world and struggling to hold on to their last shred of dignity and self-respect and honor the very last favor they are begging for in their life, then you had no genuine respect for them when they were at their best and partying with you and you were borrowing $5 from them and promising them favors in return"
The only person who cares about what happens when they're not around; isn't dead. The dead don't speak.
@@outogetyougotyou5250 yes they do, if they're only MOSTLY dead. ...and then they either talk about genuine romance or cheating at cards.
@@IAmValenwind Mostly isn't dead now is it...that still counts as being alive.
I feel sorry for this woman. She's losing her child and I can't imagine how painful that must be. She was indoctrinated into a religion that has made her believe her daughter could go to hell for not believing and those beliefs, that religions is ruining the last few moments she has with her daughter
@he11b1ade You sound like someone who's been privileged not to have been indoctrinated into religion. Belief goes deep. You can't place all the blame on the mother for something she's likely been brainwashed to believe her entire life.
In fact, that this mom called and was receptive to Don and Matt's advice really says she loves and cares for her daughter and is trying in spite of everything she believes to be true. This is not as common among believers as you might think.
I feel for her dying daughter that she has been subjected to intolerance all along and now she can't even be accepted by her mother when she is dying.
What if it's true. What if God is calling her daughter to His spirit?
@@michaelantonio If it's true then what? What difference does it make?
@@michaelantonio What if the egyptian god Ra or the greek god Zeus end up being real, and they send us to their versions of hell for believing in Yahweh??? Are you going to start worshipping them, too, just in case??
"I admire your courage for calling" well said Don. Well said.
Oh man. Don is such a neutral speaker on this show. To hear his voice crack when he said his husband had recently died just hurt me inside. I hope you have great memories, Don. And I hope your grief is short and you are able to move on.
What means ,His husband had recently died ?
@@lovehumanity6468 I didn't even know Don was gay let alone had a husband, let alone a husband who died. Not that any of that needs to be said on an atheist show, but I'm a little surprised given a lot of christians call in regarding "gay" stuff and how it bothers them etc. Sucks for Don though. :(
@@lovehumanity6468 What do you "think" it means? It's pretty obvious, is it not?
Swat Valley it means that his husband recently passed away. I’m not sure how he could’ve been anymore clearer.
@@lovehumanity6468 English is not your first language I assume. It means the Don Baker is gay and he was married to a man. This man was his husband until this man died. I never realized Don was gay. Truthfully that does not matter to me. Love knows no boundaries. My condolences to Don and his family. And I hope Don can find the Inner Strength to move on
When shit get real... the host of this show really shine. Decent, kind, helpful... exactly what we should strive to be like and teach our children to be like.
Respect to her. It's hard enough, I suspect, for a theist to call you guys, but to call at a time like that must have taken some courage.
Indeed. It's equal to the reversed situation, an atheist visiting Christians to become better informed about Christianity in order to better support their loved one in their last moments together. I doubt the ones posting these foul comments here on how 'deranged' that women is would actually do the same when needed. Christ lives in this woman, it's unfortunate so many people are not able or refuse to see divinity even when it's right in front of them.
@@BlacksmithTWD In general there is less need because many US based listeners are very familiar with Christianity but I can see your point. Thank goodness there aren't any of those comments up in the top. The poor woman is dealing with the possible death of her child and bashing her for reaching out for help is pretty awful.
I give this woman major respect for reaching out to atheists in order to get sincere and educated help on how to resolve these issues.
Don I had no idea that you lost your husband recently, I don't watch the show every day so perhaps I missed it but my condolences to you, I hope you are as well as can be expected.
Wow, that call was very well handled.
Most assuredly more useful than what the goobers at the local church were doing.
Though Matt couldn't stop himself from uttering "bullshit" when speaking about prayer for one single phone call. That's why I love Matt.
I found this kind of touching. And you guys handled it very well.
I wanted to give this poor lady a hug. Though I find fault with her thought processes in this situation, I can understand what she is feeling and this would be a difficult and confusing time even if religion weren't involved.
My son died unexpectedly and even though we new he was a non believer we had his funeral in the church I grew up in, because at the time in just couldn't do the planning so my parents took over. My husband and I still regret letting that happen because we know it wasn't what he wanted.
@@amychellebr This is why you do your power of attorney and do all your pre-planning and give a trusted person control of your choice... Myself, I don't want my family to have no say in my final wishes being carried out. They would all bow to my aunts and mother's wishes, so I gave this power over to my brother-in-law were very close and were both atheists and I trust him.
@@dougcasey6117 I agree, but he was in his early 20's you don't think about those kind of things. My husband and I had a meeting with the pastor the day of the funeral and asked him to do a more secular service, but he didn't. I just really wish I had more presence of mind at the time. But, I also am not going to beat myself up about it any more. My son would understsnd,. ( I had to laugh at my first message. I hate commenting on my phone. Autocorrect kills me. )
@@amychellebr Funerals are for the survivors, not the dead. The dead don't care anymore. They can't. The funeral is to try to give the family and friends closure, to help you grieve properly, to get over it and move on with your lives. You did the best you could. The best thing you can do now is to live a life that accurately reflects the best qualities of the deceased. Respect the things they respected. Value the things they valued. Live a life they would be proud of.
probably one of the best calls ever on this show.
This mom is so stressed because she wants to make everyone happy. Things would get much simpler if she just focused on respecting her daughters wishes.
I might be a theist but I'll be damned if I'm not going to respect the respectful atheist.
It should be like this, but both sides have the mentally incapable one's who simply poison and paint a bad picture about themselves.
Mutual respect is the feature of people, who are able to imagine themselves into other people's shoes.
"Love thy neighbour," Many Christians do seem to forget the logic behind that philosophy.
@@Si_Mondo That's why a true christian can never move into an atheist neighborhood.
As an atheist you and I have common roots. I was raised in a christian family so I do see the value of the lessons that can be learned from these stories.
I had an atheist teacher friend who committed suicide and was given a humanist funeral by his wife.
One of the guests - a "friend" of the wife - subsequently wrote to her expressing her anger that Jesus wasn't the focus.
How I would have loved to reply to THAT letter...
What a dick head
Humanist funeral sounds cringe
@@TheBusttheboss
No more than a religious funeral.
Matt is a fucking genius. So smoothly handled the call. Respect.
Actually Matt gave her perfect advise, as a believer myself- if she don't want to hear it, leave it to God. Great advise.
This was a good call, independently of beliefs they gave her great advice.
Did Matt tell her to leave it to gawd???
Relisten the video.
@@peteralleyman1945 Omg you snowflake, calm down.
@@PrincessAshley12
Great advice. I'll leave it to gawd, princess.
@@peteralleyman1945 He told her to give responsibility back to god, so, yes, in essence, to leave it to god and free herself from that burden. It is the most compassionate thing he could do and still is no evidence that he secretly believes he exists. So, yes, he said it (and after that, claimed he felt dirty). And, as an atheist, I can only applaude him for saying it the way he said it.
That kind of compassion that they show for people was the first step to make me start questioning my faith. I didn't find that in the christians around me.
Then what makes you call them Christians?
@Sun Flower It does indeed teach compassion unfortunately people who read the word miss the GREATEST COMPASSION the Bible tells of, John 3:16 God so loved the world he sent Jesus as the ULTIMATE SACRIFICE, if that IS NOT a teaching of compassion and love then I wouldn't have a clue what would be. The Bible DOES NOT fail in teachings of compassion and love, human beings fail MISERABLY at following those teachings. That is a human failure not a failure in the word of God. Just because a person doesn't show true compassion (as the Bible describes it) doesn't mean they aren't a believer or Christian they are still as human as they always were (the mindset MUST CHANGE and for many that takes a long time. Don't think the forces of Satan leaves them alone either.
Heartbreaking situation, and heartbreaking that religion is causing a rift in such a difficult situation.
And deepest sympathies to Don for losing his husband :-(
Stephen Hawking was 'supposed to' live for 2 years after diagnosed with ALS. However he lived 55 years with the condition.
Stephen Hawking was "probably" going to have 2 years left to live before he died from the symptoms of ALS. But as a relatively healthy, functioning human being, he wasn't even "supposed to" get ALS in the first place. 😉
Thank god for that.. 😂
What is your point?
@@Noa...... yeah, really! It's totally irrelevant to the video
I prayed for him
This was just the sweetest thing ever. Makes me want to cry and hand out hugs. Don and Matt were incredibly kind. I think many of us can relate to this family's situation. Though no one is deathly ill in my family, discussions of death and funeral wishes are always tense. Ive made it clear i honestly don't care what they do when im dead... do what they need to do for comfort.
Yeah, I'm tearing up.
Little house in the Big Apple that is the best response to a very tense and difficult situation. I've told my family but I don't care what they do as long as they feel comforted by what they do. After all, I'll be dead. I won't know what's going on anyways
Tesla Nick they showed a lot of compassion to that family ❤️
Robert Longwill exactly! I’ve seen responses from other non believers who have been hurt by religious practices who are really against a religious funeral, and I get that too, but in my case, I’m ok with whatever the fam needs to do to be ok 👌🏼
I signed up with the Neptune Society whereby I will be cremated and buried at sea thereby taking all such discussions out of the picture. Hopefully I'll be feeding fish before my family even knows I'm dead.
"My atheist daughter doesn't want a priest by her deathbed".
How hard is it to look up what an Atheist doesn't believe in?
@Josh
Aren’t you misrepresenting the atheists? According to atheists they lack belief in favor of facts?
Be careful atheists get triggered by labeling their ideology as belief.
@@ohiobuckeye5828 I think you may have misread/misunderstand Josh. They haven't referred to atheism as a believe.
I read the comment as poking fun at assuming an atheist would want a priest at their deathbed, To me it is at best as absurd as assuming that an english person would want chinese dragon dance at their wedding; at worst as misinformed as assuming a gay person would want the westboro baptist church at their wedding.
@Stephen
I understood him just fine.
My response was to highlight the inconsistency of atheism. As atheists insist Christians believe what they say about pretty much everything.
From the list Christians are supposed to believe atheists about
What atheism is.
What Christianity is
What faith is
What logical fallacies are.
The most ironic part is when atheists say Christians cannot tell an atheist what atheism is unless they are atheists but any atheist can tell a Christian what Christianity is despite not being Christians.
The following response of being ex Christians also fails because of the fact that their are ex atheists who are now Christians.
@@ohiobuckeye5828 Nice strawman you got there
@Gareth
Nice baseless accusation you got there.
These RUclips comments section are replete with atheists saying that Christians don’t understand what atheism is, etc...,
The irony is that the atheists don’t actually know what atheism is and prove it by defining it incorrectly.
That was beautiful Matt and Don. You guys offered great advice and comforted Jamie without sacrificing your position. Don, I'm sorry for your loss.
"It's not about the dead, because the dead are dead."
Brilliant.
Never once did I think I would cry from an atheist experience episode.
This call brought a tear to my eye. Wonderfully handled, with some great advice. If you could hear it, I'd applaud.
Me too.
Yea, same
these type calls absolutely shows a true humanist in action.
As tough as Matt can be on some callers, you can see he still has compassion for people and is willing to even set aside his nonbeliefs to help someone in a time like this. This was awesome from Matt and Don.
My wife is Wiccan and she wants to be buried and have a tree planted on her because of her beliefs. I don't believe it but I agreed to be buried next to her because it makes her feel better and it doesn't matter to me.
That's a good idea in general though... seems better environmentally anyway.
Yeah, I feel like a lot of Wiccans think like that. Their ideas have an odd kind of modern practicality to them lol. Probably because it's a newer religion.
Check out Caitlyn Doughty's videos on "Ask a Mortician" on You Tube. She explains shroud-only burials, and how her funeral home helps families take control of their loved one's body, funeral and burial. People are doing it themselves again.
My heart felt condolences to you, a parent's nightmare to see our kids die before us .
There are things that seem counter intuitive due to our upbringings but are truly right, this is an excellent time to show your grandkids that you respect other's wishes as you would want yours respected.
I can only imagine your pain.
Our children dying before us is against the laws of nature. We give our children life and our children should bury us in turn.
My husband and I will have our death ceremonies at a bar!! I want a sky burial, with our pet vultures -- Morticia and Gomez -- carrying pieces of me off so I can finally fly free.
@@krisaaron5771 historically, more parents have buried children than children have buried parents due to infant mortality, childhood diseases, war and famine.
@MusicMadMaurice your history is correct, but your judgments are unwarranted & presumptuous. What about the people who hate Twitter and sports?
@MusicMadMaurice despite the "some people" the statement was unwarranted. The judgemental nature of the comment behooves no one in increasing the number interested in history.
I used the trivial case to show some some humor (though that may have missed). To reduce the matter to be a battle between trivialities and importance (your framing implies such an interpretation), ignores the multivariable reasonings and socioeconomic factors that cause what astounds you.
Are students responsible for what's in their curriculum? Are children responsible for the habits/interest pushed onto them via socialization? Is it unexpected that the uneducated and overworked favor entertainment over rigor?
@MusicMadMaurice how did I censor you?
I disagree, but does that change merit of what I put?
This just had me in tears.
My ex-GF was a medical doctor (general practitioner and emergency rooms) and she would get people that ask her all the time how long before they die. Her response was always "We did a lot of tests on you and nowhere did we find an expiration date."
That's what they say to patients, privately it's a little different among themselves. As an RN I have seen many patients ask that question and as soon as they've left the doctor turned to me and said "Not more than (insert number of months/weeks here) they just don't say it to patients because terminally ill people who are given a timeframe often die more quickly for some reason, obviously not everyone but quite a few, plus if they get it wrong it kinda looks bad on them.
Matt , you did a great job. Her voice had me in tears and I don't think there are many people that could have explained the way you did. Thank you.
Matt is a better christian than most christians are hahahaha
Not sure about most, but some sure.
Indeed, most.
Its because he truly understands the mindset of a Christian from his experience as a former one.
That's because he understands Sympathy, Empathy, and Morality. Most Christians don't, at least not on this show. He's also an expert on the Bible.
lost a cousin aged 28 to cervical cancer back in the 80s.
Her highly religious husband and in-laws convinced her that the power of prayer was all she needed to beat the cancer.
She stopped medical treatment,but the power of Christ did not compel that cancer to leave her and her two children have spent 35 years without their mother as a result.
No guarantee she would have survived if she'd stuck with the treatment,but opting for prayer was a quick path to death.
Oh no...that is so, so sad. It angers me how people can prey on one's weakest moments and take advantage of them like that.
And the worst thing is, I doubt they even learned their lesson...
@@Nocturnalux they just give their typical excuses of why the prayers didn't work.
@@DJ-73 Those excuses tend to make things even worse. Usually it's just blaming the person for not having enough faith so that, somehow, it ends up being their fault.
@@Nocturnalux yea I agree it does make it worse for whoever is praying being told their faith isn't strong enough or didn't pray correctly. They are all excuses that are typically given.
@@DJ-73 And when you add 'faith healing' into the mix, you now have a machine designed to fleece the sickest and most vulnerable of us all. The mantra of 'not enough faith' converts into 'not enough money' and thus those who are in dire need of financial stability end up bankrupt, sicker than ever and some even dead!
It's the notion of 'faith heals' taken to its logical and horrifying conclusion.
Thank you so much for taking this call. I was very conflicted in my actions with my religious dying and estranged father and my atheist views when dealing with him dying. What Matt said about the person who is in pain/dying gets the compassion resonated with my situation, and I just wanted to thank you guys (and gals!) for all that you do!
It's sad that her daughter is dying, as no parent should ever bury their children. Having said that, it's sad to see that this woman is so lost in her religion that she is so helpless when confronted by a daughter who is an atheist.
When I die I'll want a viking funeal, not because I believe in that, but I'm scandinavian so why the hell not?
She isn't lost, she is exactly where she needs to be. You on the other hand...
@@BlacksmithTWD are you saying that Kenji87 is lost?, if so can you provide proof?
@@lucifers.morningstar3805
First of all the woman is not helpless, she is getting help from Matt and Don.
Since she is not helpless, and being helpless was the only reason given for her being lost, she probably isn't lost either.
Kenji on the other hand fails to see this and is joking about a viking funeral instead. So perhaps not proof but rather good indications to further investigate the possibility.
But...carbon! Burning bodies produce carbon!
@@kathyheyne8610 it also produces a decent amount of fertilizer for aquatic plants, so that's nice.
This clip is a perfect example of what convinced me to give up Christianity.
Ur mom cares
I really like the way you guys handled this issue. I have had to deal with a similar situation when my mother died. I'm the only atheist in the family, mom made her request known to me in advance. She wanted Pastor so-n-so to preach her funeral. I used to be Christian, my dad raised us kids on the bible and i had wanted to be a minister when i was younger but the more i studied the bible the more i saw that it was nonsense in a sense. Regardless of my personal beliefs (or lack thereof) i respected my mother's choice in how she wanted her death dealt with.
On another note, I really enjoy watching these videos and I occasionally watch when it's live. Maybe one day I'll have nuts enough to call in.
Never discount the personal strength that is required to ensure the wishes of someone whose wishes directly contradict those that you may or may not have.
Compassionately handled. The anti-theist debate was appropriately second place to helping, and stronger for it.
I was very close to my grandmother who was very religious. Being athiest since my early teens I never once shared my my point of view on "God" and the like but I always listened to her when she talked about it. My goal was simple, always put my love for her first and respect her view with little to no conflict. Until the last day I saw her I never told her I was athiest but it was for the best. In the end our relationship was always great and to have that with me for the rest of my life is wonderful.
That was your most compassionate response to a caller ever, Matt.
In this circumstance, the views of your daughter and her children are far and away more important than those of the congregation of your church, so it would be wrong to succumb to that pressure. You need to have the strength to alienate those people rather than your family if it comes to that. But, true friends will always stick by you.
15:15 “tell that to the church members” is a very informative statement. Not just what she said, but how she said it. The conflict for this poor woman is her peer group putting pressure on her to force her daughter to conform to their way of thinking. They are so zealous that they don’t care they are traumatising a grieving mother, her grand daughters and a dying daughter. Yet they will sleep soundly at night knowing they did “the righteous thing”.
👏👏 Matt often lets himself down (abit) as he can forget his empathy and compassion.
He did a great job on this one!
Don, I lost my husband about 10 years ago...he was quite young (in his 40's), so I understand what you're going through. I hope you find peace and happiness. Lot's of hugs!!!
The compassion for the woman's emotions at the end of the conversation was wonderful to hear.
One of the best calls I've seen (and I've seen hundreds). And Don, I'm so sorry for you loss. A lot of people, me included, admire you. I hope everything gets better soon.
Can religion not even respect the dying?
If there is one group of people that the religious absolutely do not respect, it is the dying. The other one is children and when those intersect, well, it is a double tragedy as the parents of terminally ill children can all too well attest to.
Short answer: NO
long answer: NO NOPE NOT GONNA HAPPEN HAVE TO RESPECT MY IMAGINARY FRIEND/ALL POWERFUL BEING BEFORE ANYONE AND ANYTHING!!!!!!!
The dying least of all. That's their bread and butter.
Mormonism can't even leave the dead alone, they perform "post-mortem" conversions.
Only if the dying believes the same crap they do.
From about 13:00 to 16:00 was amazing!
I've been an atheist for over 25 years ( I'm now 62 ) and was at one time a fundamentalist Christian. Not only was this whole video really good about a subject which most people don't want to talk about, but those last few minutes were truly brilliant!
You two, Don and Matt are truly beautiful human beings. The honesty, compassion, empathy and also love you showed that woman was wonderful and got me to the core.
Truly moving! Thanks!
Why did she call?
What about the following:
She called because the wants the best possible treatment for her daughter, so she calls in for advice and information. (great advice, Don).
She wanted to better understand her daughter. Christians are taught to not learn about athiests. This is the first time she ever considered her daughter
Hello.. I'm the sick daughter... she called because she can talk to strangers all day long, but because of our history she can't talk to me. After the coma & my later diagnoses, she tried but religion in general is just triggering for me. With her being older & my getting sicker, it seems to be her biggest focus lately. Somehow i can talk to my grandmother with more logic and reasoning than my own mother. Religion truly poisons everything. We get along outside of politics & religion which I'm happy not discussing btw & even set as a boundary. That's why she called... That and as mentioned before, deep down she knew she needed something with substance. Hearing the age old Christian answer of 'keep praying, god will answer in his time' just doesn't really work whenever you think you're on a time crunch with death.... that's when you need an atheist for real answers. Lol.
@Nic B I really am the daughter. Lol. I don't have a 'terminal' condition, i have a fatal condition, but lately getting out of bed seems impossible most days and my insurance has denied tests to get the treatments needed. It's a time crunch now to get it appealed in time as they can't give me the treatments without the tests according to the same insurance company denying my tests... so my family is watching my health rapidly decline. I am weak & trying to look for rational answers & they're wanting me to pray & try faith healing- something she forgot to mention in her call. I didn't reach out to matt yet, but i have called recovering from religion. They were helpful. I think i haven't messaged matt yet because he's a bit intimidating and also someone who really inspires me. They say never meet your heroes... lol.
Major Marketing That was the question I had. I got the impression she just recently found out her daughter doesn’t believe. I wish they had asked her how long she has known.
If she just recently found out, I would say she’s handling pretty well. My elderly mom was recently in the hospital, and they asked her religious preference (she’s fine now).
She is old and slightly “out of it” but she just shook her head. I was actually surprised. She was raised Catholic, though she was never that devout. She did send us to catholic schools when they could afford it, so I was surprised.
Maybe she just forgot? She will probably get a religious funeral because I have religious siblings, and since I was the only witness they would probably not believe me.
Natosha Nichole Hello. I’m so sorry to hear you are fighting insurance companies for treatment. I do have a question for you. How long has your mother known you don’t believe?
Did she find out you don’t believe after she found out you are dying?
Wow what a great call, Mat seriously, you are such a good person. This actually brought tears to my eyes. You were able to truly stand in her shoes and see things frim her side. Respect man👍
I'm dying too. Brain tumor again, maybe, or radiation necrosis from treating the first one. I'm opting not to treat it. Third time's the charm, or something like that.
Doesn't bother me. Actually, it's a pretty happy time in my life. Wasn't bothered for the first brain surgery, either; I figure if I died on the operating table, I wouldn't be around to notice or care anymore. It's pretty refreshing, really, and the lack of stress over my coming death means I get to enjoy myself in the time I have.
I haven't really talked about it at length with my friends, but I did mention it when my friend's dad died. He had a pastor show up. Some insipid little prick, who spent the first part of his sermon bragging about how _his_ church is so much better than all the _other_ churches and _his_ church doesn't make him wear the stupid, outdated _priest habit_ and instead he gets to wear a nice sweater with elbow patches and his church is _so much better_ blah blah. I mentioned that if a priest showed up to my funeral, I'd get out of the coffin and punch him in the face.
So I don't want some parasite wasting everybody's time at my funeral. Some complete stranger who doesn't know a damn thing about me spouting pointless platitudes, which is nothing more than _paid publicity_ for a parasitical scam of an organisation that sells people an empty box labeled "Hope for the afterlife"? I'm insulted right now that such a "profession" exists, imagine how I feel about letting one of them make money from my corpse.
But it's true. Just like I didn't worry about someone cutting into my skull because if I died I'd be dead and wouldn't know about it, I have no control over what people decide to do in the ritual corpse display party when I'm dead. I can only say "Keep the parasites away from my corpse" -and hope for the best- and nothing because hope like that is childish.
The question is, what kind of scumbag would ignore how I felt when I was alive and call a parasite up and pay him money, knowing that I've spent almost half my life fighting against that kind of crap? Do we want to live in a society where we ignore people's wishes after their death, just to be self-indulgent?
If my parents told me they wanted a priest to show up at their funeral, I'd certainly try to talk them out of it, but if they insisted, I'd bite the fucking bullet, call a parasite up, warn him to go light on the platitudes and Barnum statements, and go up behind the lectern after him and undo the damage. _But I'd still allow the bastard to waste everybody's time._ Because respecting the living's wishes before they die is what I'd want for myself, and I'm not a hypocrite.
I'd rather live in that world where my corpse isn't used as a recruitment tool for a church because I don't want it to be, rather than live in a world where my dead meat is exploited like that.
So.. Jamie? I'm not trying to offer comfort. I'm okay with dying in large part because I don't have kids; I can't imagine what it's like for a parent in my situation, and I don't think my parents have quite accepted that I'm going to die sooner rather than later, quite yet. I imagine you're in a terrible spot.
But your daughter knows what she's doing. If she's any kind of informed atheist, she's heard all the "arguments" for the existence of God and has dismissed it, despite all the scare-mongering going on about "what if you're wrong?". She's not interested in a parasite proselytizing over her dead body. The ball is now in your court: do you respect your daughter's wishes when she isn't around to defend herself anymore? Or do you spit on her corpse just to get your way?
I don't do sugar-coating. I'm facing my own death with a light heart and morbid humor, in large part because I don't try to hide from reality. That's your two choices, Jamie: respect or disrespect. The memory of your daughter, or mindlessly following a stupid ritual that pays a complete stranger to spout platitudes about someone they don't know, just because *you* want it.
Nobody's going to keep score. You can promise your daughter that you'll respect her wishes, and then break your promise, knowing that she's dead and can no longer complain. Nobody would ever know outside of your family, and the religious ones would probably be quite happy with that outcome. Your daughter won't care. Her children might be ripe for conversion at that point, if you feel like being really scummy (in the eyes of your daughter) / devout (in the eyes of your fellow theists).
Which world do you want to live in? Which decision can you live _with?_
Perhaps more importantly, what difference does it make if some cloistered parasite reads tripe from a stupid book written by bronze age barbarians? Do something your daughter would actually enjoy. Remember her life, don't exploit her death. Or don't, like I said, it's up to you, but it's what I'd do. Funerals should be for the living to remember the dead.
@dcax brought me back to this post so I figure I may as well add an update. The neurosurgeon convinced me to go through with it. My main objections were added risk and additional uncomfortable scars on my head, but he assured me that since they were going back in trough the same hole and cutting the same scar open, it would be easier and even less risky. He wasn't kidding; I was discharged three days later and walking within a day of my brain being cut up, which they didn't let me do for three days the first time. I lost essentially all of the right half of my field of vision, which I expected. I've also lost the ability to do much of anything else. I've got more weakness in my left arm and I can't concentrate very well so D&D is now forever in my past, which means my options for entertainment are... almost nonexistent. And that's okay. I'll find something else to do eventually, maybe. For now I'm riding out the rest of my life.
But I'm also so weakened that when I had to rush to the hospital again a few months ago my veins couldn't handle the added pressure from an IV, and I'm now unable to drink. I've been crunching ice for months and I'm losing dexterity in my tongue, which makes talking difficult on top of the concentration problems making me pick the wrong words or veer off on random nonsense every now and then.
Let's just say I'm ready to die at any time. In the meantime though, I've got some living to enjoy doing!
Edward - thanks for that, thoroughly enjoyed reading your post. Have to steal your "parasite" label and the "hope in an empty box" line. Love it! Best wishes to you in your situation.
@Wayne Elliott To quote a very wise man: "If shoe fits, wear it". A parasite is an animal that sucks things of value out of something else while providing nothing useful to its victim. What's a priest, if not exactly that? Someone who contributes nothing to society while leeching off of others, providing them with nothing of actual value and filling people's heads with lies.
It's not Hitchens's "sinister virgins" quip, but it is easier to remember.
Use it in good health! (there's the macabre humor I was talking about, expressions like that are funnier when you're really sick)
Love how brave you are !
@Tesla Nick Oh please, it's not bravery if you're not afraid to begin with. Pretty sure hypoxia caused brain damage that removed my ability to feel fear when I was critically anemic from the first tumor. Either that or surviving my greatest fear (being trapped in a body dying by inches) put everything into perspective. For all intents and purposes, I _already_ died three years ago.
Whichever the case is, at this point I'm simply not capable of being afraid of anything. Bravery means being afraid and facing the fear. I've always been a coward, now I'm a fearless coward. Which is...weird. Convenient, though.
@dicax What's left of me, unfortunately for everybody else!
I am a Christian, and I have to say this was really inspiring to watch. First, I think it was very brave of this mom to call into an atheist show in order to try to better understand her daughter. Second, I thought the hosts handled this with grace and dignity. I felt like there was no agenda other than to provide comfort and words of wisdom to this lady. And, as a Christian, I absolutely agree with Matt - entrust her to God. It seems like nowadays, calm and respectful dia
log seems rare. Hearing such a dignified conversation was refreshing.
In other words, the caller was one of the few respectful Christians who has called the show
Oh gosh Don. I had no idea you had a loss like that. Thanks for doing the show. I had to start writing after i heard that because you have done so much for my release from my beliefs along side everyone at the atheist experience. While i listen to you in so many videos i often forget that you have a life outside this show. Like Matt said a few times, something like this, "you dont know me just because you see me for an hour or so a week". So sorry for your pains Don. Thanks again.
My heart ❤️ truly goes out to the dying daughter. My heart ❤️ breaks for the mother.
Edit: wasn't sure how to finish the comment, so I hit send, then read it, and realized what was needed at the end.
My stepfather passed away last year. He was an ass hole but he truly grew over the 20 odd years I knew him. He taught me a lot about what being a man meant to me, some of it in mimicking his actions, some in trying to do the opposite of what he did. He came from a very religious family, and my mother is also a believer.
His death taught me a lot about dealing with religious family. My brother came to the memorial, and he and I hadn't spoken in a few years, nor him and my mother for various reasons, one of which was my stepdad. My brother and I are both atheists (he got there first, I admit, and I dawdled in the jesus realm for years after he told us) but we view it as two very different things. For me, it was a journey of discovering answers to questions, and for him, it was a way to feel superior to others because he felt smarter than them.
This became crystal clear to me during that time, when my brother went out of his way to antagonize my mother, about a stupid cup, with a jesus-y slogan on it. The day after the memorial. I learned in that moment that respect is earned, most of the time, and yes we may feel vindicated in confronting christianity, and there are certainly times that it is actually needed. Dealing with religious family, is less about making them respect your wishes, and more about treasuring those that do. My mother and I enjoy a very fulfilling relationship, and she has adopted my atheist wife as her best friend, and daughter in all but blood. I treasure my relationship with her, just as much as I treasure the relationship I have with my wife's family, and my friends.
It's about finding people, not just family, that respect you enough to accept your differences, and who make you want to accept theirs. I'm under no illusions there are families out there worse than mine, and my stepdad's family is one of those Uber religious, church 4 days and 3 nights a week. They made it clear to me that our difference of opinion wasn't surmountable, so I waved goodbye to them, kept my memories of my stepdad, and didn't look back.
I applaud those who walk away and find true families, and any who read this, your family is out there. It may not be the one birth gave you, but a family that chooses to love you is infinitely better than one that only does it because you share similar DNA.
I applaud Mat and Don for speaking to this woman with respect, and not slamming the truth down in front of her and walking away, content in the superiority of their position. Don, I'm so truly sorry to hear about your husband. You are a wonderful person to watch on this show, a perfect counterbalance to Mat, because of your calming presence. Your chuckle never fails to get one out of me!
Wonderful call, I am humbled by this honorably and compassionate call.
Don, so very sorry for your husband’s passing.
Man this episode broke my heart. Matt, Don- y’all are incredibly kind people.
This is brutally heavy.
It's obvious to me that this caller will not let this go. This will be a point of contention throughout the remainder of her daughter's life as well as her own life with her grandchildren.
People like this caller disgust me... The narcissism is so thick it is hard to breathe... I cannot summon 1 oz of empathy or sympathy for her but I do have empathy and sympathy for her daughter and her grandchildren and the suffering that she will put them through in order to reinforce her narcissism.
So it is a good thing that I am not hosting a program such as The atheist experience.
Difficult call , well done both of you.
I only fear an unnecessary expensive funeral.
Hard to avoid. Pay now (a service for payment made trust, NOT an insurance policy), it will be 3 times more expensive in a couple decades.
@@graveseeker It's a bloody scam I tell ya. Carton box and a furnace should do the trick, unless I can secure a nice little plot of swamp to be eventually tossed in.
@@docholliday9058 Don't even need the box but you'll just get people in trouble. I looked for simple burial at sea to avoid the cremation costs but couldn't find anything. I like Neptune because there is no relative involvement. ymmv
I say to honor the daughters wishes. Very compassionate response you guys. I’m so sorry for this grieving mother.
Prayer failed gee what a surprise
You would think in this modern era people would still not practice occult black magic like prayer. But some people want to be stuck in the dark ages
@@pgroenable Good cause we are arsonist, Fire Fire Fire
@@pgroenable The word is 'You're' going to hell. not Your. Consult a dictionary a-hole.
@@pgroenable Then stop setting people on fire if you dont want them to burn
@@josueolivas6109 People who pray are in the dark ages yes
Matt, you need to offer to perform the service at this woman's funeral. Show everyone what an atheist funeral can be. Show them hope, love, reconciliation, a life well lived. This could be a giant step forward for atheist relations.
Don, condolences for your recent loss. I didn’t know.
There’s a humility, empathy, and honesty from both the caller and hosts on this one that’s inspiring.
Possibly the most touching snippet of the A.E. ever, and handled so beautifully by Matt and Don.
Jamie, I wish you and your daughter well. Respect her wishes now and when she passes. It’s the right thing to do.
This show brought tears to my eyes, well done guys, this is why Atheist Experience and atheists rock.
One of the best calls I've listened to. Kindness and compassion shining through right her
Wow man, I’m honestly in awe of how intelligently loving and responsibly wise you guys’ response to this call was
I want George Carlin's routine on death at my funeral
I want the Metallica song they made for South Park "Little Boy you're going to hell" song just for shock value with my family
Difficult conversation, but you handled it so well! Best call I've ever heard you guys do.
Wow so proud of you guys! You handled that call with kindness and compassion !
That was amazing. Thanx everyone involved.
One of the best segments of this show ever 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
And this is why we love you guys. I need you to talk with my mother next, lol. 😉
I am proud that you both demonstrated kind compassion and reason to someone struggling with a difficult topic.
Wow. If this discussion didn't bring tears to your eyes, nothing will. Really well handled, so hard. Lot of credit to mom for making it through the discussion.
What a tragic call. Religion poisons everything.
Amy
The same can be said for science.
Weapons of mass destruction, internet porn (all genres), planned parenthood, eugenics, etc...,
These all are the results of science.
So using these examples it can be said science isn’t great and technology poisons everything.
@Kibate
So the problem isn’t religion? instead it is the individual? I agree
That wrecks the religion poisons everything argument. Because it seems that people are poisoning the religion.
No religion doesn't people who abuse and mishandle scripture do. If you knew what scripture calls true religion you would reconsider that statement.
@@ohiobuckeye5828 if it wasn't for religion, the human race would be far more advanced and efficient than we are now. Religion is a handicap on the human race.
Respectfully, because I know it must be horrible that her daughter is dying... This is not difficult. Just listen to your daughter and honor her wishes.
Meh... imagine holding a belief that your daughter, that you're already going to have to bury (a prospect that no parent should ever have), due to her disbelief, is going to suffer for eternity. Although I stand with you in the fact that you should honor the daughter's wishes, I can understand how someone who holds such a belief so deeply would feel very conflicted and torn by honoring those wishes...
@@morfanaion Eh to me it sounded more like she's concerned what the other relatives would think of a non-religious funeral.
To the lady caller..... I don't mean this in a mean way... but it would be INCREDIBLY selfish of you to do ANYTHING against your daughters DYING wishes. Religion is tearing your family apart, you SHOULD NOT allow religion to tear you apart, your DAUGHTER is more important than your religion. To Matt.... thanks for speaking to her..... I hope she took everything to heart and listens well.... I can tell by your voice and conversation with her, that you WANT to help her bond with her daughter before she passes.
One of the best calls I've seen in awhile. Such integrity and honesty. 👍
These are the situations that I think of when people ask, "what's the harm?" Not the mass slaughters, those are easy to find all over. But this is a situation of what sounds like a perfectly loving family with no reason at all to fight, being torn apart by irreconcilable differences in belief. And this kind of story is normally kept hidden from public, so people don't know how widespread it is. How many tears have been shed because of completely pointless disagreements like these?
But... but... religion brings families together. Religion brings people together when those people all believe the same thing.
A lot different advice then she got from her minister. Matt and Don showed empathy while the only thing she got from that minister was, "Will pray on it".
Wow. Well done. And, after a decade of distance and silence, I will be rejoining my theist family. I have been working on having an attitude that the past is done and their beliefs (especially my mother) will have no impact on how I relate to them. Mom isn't well. I want to have things be on a better footing before she is no longer here. This talk helped me, the atheist, imagine a better place with my theist fam. Thanks. Thanks a lot. It made me cry a little, btw, how you helped this woman feel a bit better. Life is hard. Losing a child, among the worst things life has to offer. My personal worst fear.
Much respect to Don & Matt, probably the best advice anyone could give and/or receive in this very sad situation?
Time is precious, it shouldn't be wasted arguing. You don't want to waste your memories thinking about the times you could of had, when you could be spending your time remembering that you had them.
Matt: "Why don't you just pray, that gods will be done"... well isn't that cool?
Be gentle, this is a greiving mother.
They are being gentle. Sadly this mother does not respect her own daughters wishes even though she is dying. Like all religious nuts her evil imaginary friend is more important than her own daughter who is actual real.
She wants to so bad to force her daughter and grandkids to listen to christian dogma
@@PRHILL9696 I was in a psychologically unbeneficial place early this year and my family did the same thing. I told them directly that their constant hammering on me with their religious dogma was hurting me and asked them to stop. I even told them it was a personal boundary and eventually issued an ultimatum. Though I was suicidal, they continued to do it anyway saying they loved me too much to respect my boundaries. I had to cut them out of my life for a time while I gained stability. Now that I am fine, I have allowed them back into my life and actually do want to have those conversations. However, it still irks me that they chose loyalty to something they have no evidence for over someone that loves them who they were clearly causing harm to.
@@PRHILL9696 We are brainwashed and pickled throughout our lives with peer pressure to boot so you have to have some empathy.
@@majormarketing6552 And unfortunately she has the laws on her side so for the children's sake we need to help her see.
Don, i’m so so sorry for your loss. i hope you’re doing alright :) Matt handled this amazing btw! you both did!!
Great call Matt & Don. Compassionate advice.
Don, so sorry to hear about the passing of your husband ❤️
This was wholesome!
This is the best episode I've seen. I appreciate the respect they show to the caller. I hope she took their advice and healed her relationship with her daughter.
Wow! That was an intense and very sensitive one. You guys handled it very sympathetically and with the greatest of kindness.