Run TMC - The Power Of 3

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  • Опубликовано: 16 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 173

  • @greense65
    @greense65 5 лет назад +14

    These guys had some of the best chemistry I have ever seen on a sports team and were obviously having so much fun playing together. It made is really fun to be a fan watching them!

  • @ubb4me
    @ubb4me 6 лет назад +37

    Mitch Richmond. One of the most under rated players ever. Him and Andrew Tony were my favorite players

    • @brianlogsdon4824
      @brianlogsdon4824 2 года назад

      Mitch was a beast in Sacramento too. Just never on any good teams until he got to LA at the end of his career

    • @ScottParisi
      @ScottParisi 2 года назад +1

      Loved Andrew Toney. I grew up in Philadelphia during the Toney Era.

    • @ubb4me
      @ubb4me 2 года назад +1

      @@ScottParisi That must have been awesome. I'm in the SF bay area so I was a warriors fan. Back when they were losing all the time. Philly was next. I hated Boston and LA and absolutely loved it when the 76ers swept them.

    • @ScottParisi
      @ScottParisi 2 года назад

      @@ubb4me, it was an incredible time. You're loaded with success of late for sure

    • @ubb4me
      @ubb4me 2 года назад +1

      @@ScottParisi Yeah, they keep picking up some really good players. I thought philly was going to win a few more titles back then. Especially after they drafted Barkley. I saw him play a preseason game in Oakland in his first year. He was a beast.

  • @powerfusev2
    @powerfusev2 8 лет назад +64

    Great joke at the end by mitch that no one heard, he said "now we're Walk TMC" lol

    • @blaqdiemenz
      @blaqdiemenz 4 года назад

      😂 Yeah cause of Hardaway

  • @melissabullard4279
    @melissabullard4279 5 лет назад +20

    watching ahmad rashad takes me back to being in junior high, saturdays off getting my nba scoop

    • @lasagna3106
      @lasagna3106 4 года назад

      Best show

    • @JoeCnNd
      @JoeCnNd 4 года назад

      missing the inside stuff.

  • @onilara4602
    @onilara4602 6 лет назад +18

    T hardaway was one of my fav players as a kid

  • @lasagna3106
    @lasagna3106 4 года назад +2

    Grew up in Alameda, went to several games too watch run TMC. They were my heros

  • @joelouiszimmerman4323
    @joelouiszimmerman4323 7 лет назад +44

    The day the Warriors traded Mitch Richmond to the Kings for Billy Owens was one of the darkest days of the franchise. Nelly must have been smoking his medicinal weed when he made this deal. Oh what could have been :(

    • @AndyL8
      @AndyL8 7 лет назад +6

      Billy Owens..... the next Magic Johnson. A forward with ball and passing skills of Magic. hahaha. Never happened!! Warriors could have had Mutombo or Steve Smith instead of Billy Owens. That trade made no sense when the Warriors had Mullin in small forward when Owens was in the same position.

    • @Diaz23
      @Diaz23 5 месяцев назад

      Billy Owens sucked ass

  • @markdavis3306
    @markdavis3306 4 года назад +3

    Priceless.... when the NBA was fun to watch. And, I’m not even a warrior but enjoyed watching this trio when they played

  • @hrhOSports
    @hrhOSports 7 лет назад +71

    Chris Mullin is a black man dripped in white chocolate! That brother is one of the homes! Lol. Love it.

    • @TheSands83
      @TheSands83 5 лет назад +7

      HRH O he’s just a white guy why does he have to be black? Like it’s a compliment if he’s black?? Wtf difference does it make ? If he’s a cool dude wtf his skin color matter? It’s not a compliment to call a white man black or vice versa

    • @blaqdiemenz
      @blaqdiemenz 4 года назад

      He is so bk

    • @CrisEX420
      @CrisEX420 4 года назад +1

      I remember watching Mullin play. I always thought he would sound like a square white guy.
      I just found out a few days ago he’s from NY.

    • @CrisEX420
      @CrisEX420 4 года назад

      Jon D'oh I agree with what you’re saying about how it’s okay for everyone but whites to be racist. But the guy who made the post is obviously joking. This is why comedy is dead. Thanks to SJW/cancel culture always crying about everything being racist.

    • @FranktheTank70
      @FranktheTank70 4 года назад

      Racist

  • @AFBN
    @AFBN 9 лет назад +61

    The biggest mistake Don Nelson ever made was trading Richmond if they had stayed together they would've at least been threats to represent the west each year

    • @AwesomeRandomVidz
      @AwesomeRandomVidz 4 года назад +3

      they just needed a couple of solid bigs they're bench were pretty solid to marcuilionis was a solid backup 90s ginobili

    • @blaqdiemenz
      @blaqdiemenz 4 года назад +3

      But then they would never got sprewell

    • @jasonelliott7977
      @jasonelliott7977 4 года назад +2

      If they don’t get Spree, he doesn’t ruin his career choking PJ Carlesimo.

    • @carlomagnoaborde8167
      @carlomagnoaborde8167 3 года назад +1

      Definitely dud!. May be they win at least one championship

    • @TheWizard5005
      @TheWizard5005 3 года назад

      They remind me of okc a lot

  • @wherestheleakmaam7403
    @wherestheleakmaam7403 8 лет назад +50

    Only smart NBA fans in the comment section. I love it.

  • @jorger643
    @jorger643 5 лет назад +2

    Im a knicks fan but growing up in ny chris mullin was my guy and when i got to watch these 3 i was tuned in . remember u couldnt watch out of region games on the internet or dish or whatever . loved those days

  • @jimb8695
    @jimb8695 4 года назад +3

    90's NBA inside stuff. Miss those days.

  • @wuliwei6939
    @wuliwei6939 7 лет назад +46

    The original splash brothers

    • @blaqdiemenz
      @blaqdiemenz 4 года назад +4

      Maybe.. Cavs price ehlo Kerr could have said they was splash brothers too

    • @JoePuig
      @JoePuig 3 года назад

      U mean da original trio they couldn’t really shoot but could fs ball out

    • @hockeyfan1799
      @hockeyfan1799 3 года назад +2

      @@JoePuig they could all shoot lmao

    • @brianlogsdon4824
      @brianlogsdon4824 2 года назад

      @@blaqdiemenz 💯

  • @FrankLee-qd3hy
    @FrankLee-qd3hy 5 лет назад +9

    When Hardaway had the ball (and Richmond and Mullin but especially Hardaway) people flocked towards the TV set like when Bonds or Reggie Jackson was up to bat or Montana was leading a drive. I mean literally everyone old and young stopped whatever it was they were doing and started watching. The best version of the Warriors ever included Run TMC. Great video. Thank you. Oh and how 'bout that 80's Hairdo on Steve Albert? LOL Priceless... 👍🏀

  • @tonykartracer8032
    @tonykartracer8032 7 лет назад +12

    Damn..... what a squad they were, but they were missing the big man inside though.

  • @ScottParisi
    @ScottParisi 2 года назад +2

    Great video. Mully and his ability to "leak" made him the inspiration for the Ball Brothers.

  • @hongseoryoo3486
    @hongseoryoo3486 5 лет назад +12

    Loved every second of this video. I am a Lakers fan. That said, I wish, one day, Tim and Mitch get wider recognition that they deserve. Mitch is equal to MJ. Tim is a smaller version of Magic. Love them, All three of them.

    • @lainiwakura4678
      @lainiwakura4678 5 лет назад +5

      Equal to MJ?... umm, not quite. One of the most criminally underrated players of all time but let's not get carried away.

    • @kyledamron
      @kyledamron Год назад

      As an old school Warriors fan I appreciate that coming from a Lakers fan. Respect

  • @charismatic9904
    @charismatic9904 6 лет назад +52

    If gsw wait 2 years they would have had a starting 5 of hardaway, mullin, Richmond, sprewell and webber.

    • @91booboo
      @91booboo 6 лет назад +4

      charismatic9904 god damn I never thought about that ! Damn

    • @wifilostconnection5992
      @wifilostconnection5992 5 лет назад +12

      they would be a lil to good to land webber that early in the draft

    • @johncorinthians1254
      @johncorinthians1254 5 лет назад

      Yes sir

    • @irishpanic
      @irishpanic 5 лет назад +5

      They probably woulda never got Webber and sprewell. They woulda been making the playoffs every year. If they stayed together they might have been able to make a run in 95, that much I do believe

    • @blaqdiemenz
      @blaqdiemenz 4 года назад

      Nah they would not been in the draft position to do it.. And spree and Richmond play the same position

  • @CinHalCedHerChance
    @CinHalCedHerChance 2 года назад

    Early 90s to '95 NBA ball was ball playing at it's peak. These guys (not just these 3), but the teams ran as teams. It wasn't an individual stat padding, team star building/buying time.
    Best time to watch the NBA, I was too young for 80s NBA, but after seeing some games on here, no doubt it was an equally amazing time.
    Today it seems more about flashy shit and and getting the highlight.

  • @high-defRJ
    @high-defRJ 2 года назад

    I loved Chris Mullin ever since he was on Dream Team, though I was not a Warriors fan. His haircut, him shooting lefty and having a sweet shooting stroke is what got me to fall in love with his playing style and emulate in gyms along with other top shooters in the 90s. Loved MJ more, but he defied gravity.

  • @jerrycollins-doc9959
    @jerrycollins-doc9959 8 лет назад +29

    Jordan had a difficulty guarding Mitch, one of the very few..

  • @eboooo
    @eboooo 7 лет назад +18

    Sometimes GMs don't take advantage of the chemistry they have on the court. It's a real shame they didn't get to stay together longer.

  • @giantkiller56
    @giantkiller56 6 лет назад +28

    When today's Warriors "fans" have never heard of Run TMC. :-/

    • @KyleHurd
      @KyleHurd 6 лет назад +6

      giantkiller56 right! That's why I can't stand GS, it's filled with a bunch of bandwagoners just like Miami was a few years ago.

    • @aztlanholywarrior6860
      @aztlanholywarrior6860 4 года назад +1

      real ones from the Bay Area do! Dub Nation knows. They Got Broken up too soon 3 seasons wasn’t enough smh

  • @stevend.bumgarner6134
    @stevend.bumgarner6134 2 года назад

    Best trio ever. Tim was Out of this world. Mullin is a straight baller. And Mitch is Mitch. Best days of my basketball youth watching them

  • @scottdavidson7543
    @scottdavidson7543 4 года назад +2

    Great great memories. Trading Mitch is one of the biggest trade blunders ever. One of the most underrated players because he was traded to sac

  • @BaTeOo7
    @BaTeOo7 10 лет назад +28

    Golden State administration better learn from breaking up run tmc. If they fuck up the splash brothers I'm going to be so mad.

    • @2amaysn
      @2amaysn 9 лет назад +7

      They almost did. They were going to trade Klay Thompson for Kevin Love.

    • @sonicthehedgehog3162
      @sonicthehedgehog3162 9 лет назад

      Jamal Mays I Wonder How Klay Thompson Would Fare With Run TMC

    • @stuksy4321
      @stuksy4321 3 года назад

      @@sonicthehedgehog3162 the game was very different, it was rough, hardnosed and threes were not what they are now. IMO, Klay would still be great, he'd have to go hard to the hole more. The other way around -- RUN TMC in today's league -- I think they'd still be pretty awesome with Mitch and Mullen able to shoot from anywhere and with Tim able to control the ball and out muscle any other guard in the league.

  • @bapakhammad
    @bapakhammad 10 лет назад +11

    Great video, thanks for posting it!

  • @DrVanNostrand01
    @DrVanNostrand01 5 лет назад +6

    Damn, watching these old school sports docs are so refreshing. No shoehorning political agendas into the game, only talking about the games and players, what made them great etc. Also, I forgot how awesome Ahmad Rashaad was at his job. I used to watch inside the NBA all the time as a kid and it was such a great show. Can't really get into the NBA these days as the players are all primadonna babies that would get their asses kicked by all these old school players.

  • @JoePuig
    @JoePuig 3 года назад +1

    GS has their thing of having sum of da best trios of all time😤

  • @Osiris3344
    @Osiris3344 9 лет назад +32

    One of the worst front offices up until recently.

  • @BRAVO2I4
    @BRAVO2I4 4 года назад +1

    Wow, Nelson let them play motion offense like open gym in NBA games. He knew they were cold as hell. 😂😂😂

  • @andrewokamoto
    @andrewokamoto 2 года назад +2

    The Mitch Richmond trade for Billy Owens was such a huge mistake. Some people thought Billy Owens would be the next Magic Johnson. Sometimes you make a gamble and it turns out, but to trade a future Hall of Famer for unicorn potential is almost always going to be the wrong decision.

  • @sequoyahharrison9863
    @sequoyahharrison9863 5 лет назад +4

    👑👑👑👑👑Here 20 Feb 2019....watching the GREATS!!!!👑👑👑👑👑

  • @MazzaMedia_
    @MazzaMedia_ 4 года назад +3

    A few more years together with a touched up front court may have been enough for a title. Webber comes to mind.

  • @steses
    @steses 4 года назад +4

    Tim and Mitch still look in their 30's

  • @normbatchelor7403
    @normbatchelor7403 Год назад

    They were right up there with Showtime Lakers exciting basketball.

  • @ropete33
    @ropete33 5 лет назад +2

    The free food thing! I live in Orlando and the deal here was if the Magic scored 100 points or more we had a Mac Attack which was a free Big Mac with your ticket stub. During the Shaq and Penny years they had to up to 110 cause they were giving away too many lol.

  • @thegiftedone
    @thegiftedone 2 года назад

    This had me in tears!…..

  • @regice5650
    @regice5650 3 года назад +1

    Four greats got to love it

  • @Royalbleunotes83
    @Royalbleunotes83 8 лет назад +12

    Tim Hardaway my guy

  • @eyeswideopen8115
    @eyeswideopen8115 5 лет назад +1

    Man love this piece right here , this was dope !! Although Run TMC didn't win no 🏆these boys were balling . I remember all the fake Jordan bandwagon bulls fan & loyal Lakers fans in HS used to give me hell repping my Warriors lol . The Texas 2 Step , Mullin were my dudes & Mitch was a beast .

  • @Lawomenshoops
    @Lawomenshoops 4 года назад +3

    When Nelly was head coach of the Bucks, he had a pretty good trio with Sidney Moncrief, Paul Pressey, and Terry Cummings! Not on the level of Run TMC, but pretty damn good!

    • @elliemyers6435
      @elliemyers6435 2 года назад

      Absolutely....Marques Johnson was also on some of those teams. Those Bucks teams were really good, but the east at that time was just SO loaded.

  • @benlau4026
    @benlau4026 4 года назад +2

    still got my Mullin 17 jersey, but i had a excellent crossover

  • @mikrod9157
    @mikrod9157 2 года назад +1

    Chris Mullen old school klay but Tim hardaway the goat for me just cause I’m a fan

  • @pouncingpantherpucks2779
    @pouncingpantherpucks2779 3 года назад +1

    I'm only 18 so I never saw these guys play. However I respect this trio more than any that have come after this. These guys had swag and they revolutionized the game. Lots of teams started playing fast tempo and high scoring and these really started that phonomen.

  • @kyledamron
    @kyledamron Год назад

    I'm glad mitch got a ring with the Lakers, and finally Tim finally got into the HOF in 2022. Wish Chris got a ring

  • @multidimensional_holographer
    @multidimensional_holographer 4 года назад

    Yup, free pizza. These guys were fun to watch back in the day.

  • @juveniledavidi1183
    @juveniledavidi1183 6 лет назад

    this is way way better than the main-stream superhero franchise,,,also Tim's voice is just so darn black man,,,west coast y'all

  • @od94st
    @od94st 5 лет назад +2

    Out of the three of them chris mullin my fav he could score and pass better than almost any sf i also like tim and mitch but mullin was the main man

  • @columbusohio72
    @columbusohio72 4 года назад +1

    These guys should have a ship or 2

  • @anthonygreen2962
    @anthonygreen2962 4 года назад

    Those were my college years. They were definitely an entertaining and high scoring team then but the organization couldn't get out of their own way due to trades(Mitch Richmond, Penny Hardaway, Chris Webber, draft picks that didn't plan out like Billy Owens, Joe Smith, Donyell Marshall, letting their young players go just to get better on other teams like Tyrone Hill, Chris Gatling, Mario Ellie, Vincent Askew. They would have never won a championship trying to get past Portland, Phoenix, and Houston just to face Chicago in the finals. It reminds me of the Steve Nash-led Phoenix Suns. Still a fun up and coming young team with coach Don Nelson creating a unique style of play to the NBA that todays Houston Rockets try to use every year only to fail in the end.

  • @carlomagnoaborde8167
    @carlomagnoaborde8167 3 года назад

    They are the first team to have trio in nba history. Usually nba has only duo but because of them the nba revolunized of having trio like mj, pippen, rodman

  • @brianlogsdon4824
    @brianlogsdon4824 2 года назад

    The Run TMC Warriors and the Zo, LJ, Muggsy hornets were two of the most entertaining teams in the 90s.
    And the supporting casts: GSW had guys like Bol, Marciallunnas, Tolbert, Gatling, Lister, pressey
    Charlotte had Curry, Kendall Gill, Rex Chapman, I think Tolbert played in charlotte too, Rambis I think,
    You know what? Throw in that Cavs team with Price, Kerr, Ehlo and Daugherty too

  • @go-goakins1489
    @go-goakins1489 4 года назад +2

    Never should of traded Mitch!!!👈👈

    • @je9212
      @je9212 4 года назад +1

      They got sprewell so it's even .

  • @stevend.bumgarner6134
    @stevend.bumgarner6134 2 года назад

    22:03 Timmy let’s it be known. Could still beat anybody to this day!

  • @AlbertoGonzalez-xn1lw
    @AlbertoGonzalez-xn1lw 6 лет назад +2

    Mitch got traded... but they got Spree and C-Webb later on... but... same shit happened

  • @mattastic7955
    @mattastic7955 3 года назад

    RESPECT💪💯💪💯💪💯
    Thanks for being just guys, y'all. RESPECT💪💯💪💯💪💯

  • @amrakunish5238
    @amrakunish5238 4 года назад +2

    Marciulionis.

  • @mikevalenzula3028
    @mikevalenzula3028 8 лет назад +16

    chris lost a lot of hood creed with those sandals

    • @TheJMSESQ
      @TheJMSESQ 8 лет назад +17

      Chris got more streetcred than he could ever give away

    • @columbusohio72
      @columbusohio72 4 года назад +1

      Still has twice as much as you

  • @Geep1778
    @Geep1778 4 года назад +1

    i had two jerseys as a kid 1 was Hardaway n the other was Stockton so guess what position i played lol. but if timmy never blew out his knee that 1 year he might have a ring now.

  • @retrorapmusic
    @retrorapmusic 2 года назад

    Man what a great video!

  • @romanwichrowski1306
    @romanwichrowski1306 5 лет назад

    Piękne czasy. 👍

  • @kyledamron
    @kyledamron Год назад

    The Dunkin Go Nuts??? Who the hell thought of that

  • @theizzbasketball322
    @theizzbasketball322 5 лет назад +1

    My dad's era

  • @vincentas
    @vincentas 10 лет назад +2

    great vid

  • @elliemyers6435
    @elliemyers6435 2 года назад

    It really is a shame they traded Mitch....With the Lakers getting older/Magic retiring in the early 90s, had they kept this trio together, they would've had good chances to win the west going into that decade...Would they have been better than the Suns, Blazers & rockets, who all got to the finals in the years when those warriors players were all in their primes? Who knows. But, it would've been really cool to see those potential battles in the playoffs.

  • @Thatguyyoudontknow594
    @Thatguyyoudontknow594 7 лет назад +5

    Is tim an R&B singer 💀💀💀

  • @williamshultz4620
    @williamshultz4620 2 года назад

    Funny how they mention Mitch Richmond being the end of that team, yet the year after the Warriors won 55 games.

  • @blaqdiemenz
    @blaqdiemenz 4 года назад

    The run tmc warriors needed today's offensive style.. More 3 point shooting they would have been Lakers.. Portland... They needed to score more

  • @numbspirit313
    @numbspirit313 8 лет назад

    thanks for the post.

  • @Burlesqueteers
    @Burlesqueteers 6 лет назад +2

    no defense but fun to watch :)

  • @lainiwakura4678
    @lainiwakura4678 5 лет назад

    It's sad that kids today, even GSW fans are oblivious to this team. And don't realize that what their team is doing now isn't anything revolutionary. This Run TMC team was as uptempo as it gets.

  • @loulead4224
    @loulead4224 6 лет назад

    今のウォリアーズは凄いチームだけど………
    私にとって好きなウォリアーズは間違いなくこの3人がいた時代‼️

  • @stevengrvp
    @stevengrvp 5 лет назад +1

    Before steph, klay and kd

  • @chiniechinchen
    @chiniechinchen 2 года назад +1

    they should have kept these 3 and traded everything else they had for olajowon

  • @kmetzgr9594
    @kmetzgr9594 3 года назад

    Just imagine if Chris Webber was around at this time

  • @MaxwellGriffin001
    @MaxwellGriffin001 2 года назад

    Why do I always expect Chris Mullin to have a southern accent?

  • @mattsharkey8437
    @mattsharkey8437 3 года назад

    The Three Shootges

  • @loko66
    @loko66 5 лет назад

    Šarūnas Marčiulionis was the best Warrior in the 90s

  • @MrAitraining
    @MrAitraining 9 лет назад +1

    Great video......brutal audio. Bailed. But they were great. Thankfully I remember.....

  • @emanlive7832
    @emanlive7832 5 лет назад

    Kinda like KD, Russ and Harden in Okc

  • @AndyL8
    @AndyL8 7 лет назад +1

    Billy Owens..... why? Billy Owens the next Magic Johnson? Billy Owens was going to match up against Magic? Marciulionis, Mario Ellie, Tyrone Hill we great role players. A time when most teams had a double double centre a good big man was easy to find.

  • @rellbgm
    @rellbgm 6 лет назад

    Chris Mullin the original "Tommy"

    • @quentinwooten30
      @quentinwooten30 6 лет назад

      Was just about to post that comment. But it's so true

  • @cfdmedicambo68relf7
    @cfdmedicambo68relf7 6 лет назад

    What A BiG 3

  • @p9r4ex8dyk
    @p9r4ex8dyk 2 года назад

    What a shame Richmond got banished to Sacramento, the Siberia of the NBA and toilet of the league

  • @EnduringArts
    @EnduringArts 2 года назад

    They were great individual talents, but they underachieved like crazy. They had a good team for a few years but it was never great, they were never higher than the 3rd seed in the playoffs and they couldn't get out of the semifinals.

  • @JoeCnNd
    @JoeCnNd 4 года назад

    Tim Hardaway sound like ice t a little.

  • @richardbigz2964
    @richardbigz2964 5 лет назад +1

    Defense?

  • @curtisgrindahl446
    @curtisgrindahl446 2 года назад

    They traded Mitch for Billy Owens who Don Nelson thought would be perfect at POINT forward... an experiment that never turned out. Trading Richmond was a huge mistake and Warriors fans paid the price...😒

  • @brandonjacobs2897
    @brandonjacobs2897 6 лет назад +1

    Mullin b cherry pickin like a bih!!

    • @suite662
      @suite662 5 лет назад

      That's what happens when ppl don't get back on defense!

  • @arthurevans7843
    @arthurevans7843 8 лет назад +3

    I think I smell CHRIS' feet!

  • @andytaylor6781
    @andytaylor6781 3 года назад

    Killers

  • @miciahgalloway9610
    @miciahgalloway9610 5 лет назад

    Kd Westbrook harden the first generation gsw trade one of them there not the same team

  • @MrDevilgodspeed
    @MrDevilgodspeed 4 года назад

    All offense No defense cant win an NBA championship

  • @blaq7427
    @blaq7427 10 лет назад +1

    Why are they celebrating these 3 when they accomplished nothing during their time together?

    • @ingmarvanderhoek6314
      @ingmarvanderhoek6314 10 лет назад +23

      They played together for only 3 seasons but had so much fun. It showed during the games. Does not matter that they did not win any titles, they were an inspiration to many aspiring basketball players. Go out, work hard, have fun.

    • @blaq7427
      @blaq7427 10 лет назад

      ingmar van der hoek
      You can say that about any basketball team that didnt win anything

    • @johnathankonandreas6074
      @johnathankonandreas6074 9 лет назад +7

      blaq7427 No you can't. Sports are competition but are also entertainment. These guys entertained.

    • @blaq7427
      @blaq7427 9 лет назад +3

      Johnathan Konandreas
      Yes you can
      I can say the exact same thing about the Portland Trailblazers from the 90s they had fun they inspired people

    • @johnathankonandreas6074
      @johnathankonandreas6074 9 лет назад +4

      blaq7427 yeah, except they weren't as memorable as Run TMC. Everyone knows these guys because they were that more entertaining. People will also remember those meh Suns teams with Nash and these Lob City Clippers (who have no chance of winning anything). There is a difference.