Ya im buying a p50 for my first gun. I know its a BFG but i need something that can break engine blocks while having enough for tires and cab. Keep getting crazies trying to intentionally hit and run me down. Been dragged by vehicles, pushed 3 car lengths with a dislocated shoulder and feet on the bumper, feeling the burn as layer after layer of my shoulders rubbing away like sand paper on skin. Aal
I had some WWII German steel cored 9mm. And when they would shoot they would go through everything. Messed up some armor at a shooting range once before we figured out it was steel cored.
Interesting results. Be nice to see a more H2H comparison between the 5.7 and .22 TCM. The TCM has been marketed as a "range toy" with .22 magnum, think-jacket bullets with huge exposed nose lead. The 5.7 hit the market with a pre-reputation for being built for armor penetration but in order to avoid being banned was almost immediately neutered with low-velocity loads and in the case of the SS197SR highly frangible bullets not meant for anything larger than small game animals. Even now, I know of no custom ammo loaders commercially loading "performance" ammo for the .22 TCM even though the cartridge has far greater potential than the 5.7x28. Meanwhile, there are about a half-dozen companies pumping out high-dollar "performance" ammo consisting mostly of commercially available bullets loaded to the the 5.7's proper potential. From what I've seen velocity is more responsible for punching holes through steel and Kevlar considering standard Armscor factory ammo with the thin-skinned .22 magnum slugs punches very well when striking at over 2,000 fps! The .22 TCM9R is even better because the 39 grain short-nose slug has jacket all the way up over the nose with a small hollowpoint making the bullet tend to collapse inward on impact with hard surfaces which makes it a better penetrator. The common factor for the .22 TCM/9R is the high-density lead cores more so than jacket thickness. A BETTER bullet for the .22 TCM (can't be used in the .22 TCM9R) is the Speer 40 grain Spire point. This slug has a much thicker jacket since it was designed for +3,000 fps, a solid lead core and sharply tapered nose with a tiny amount of exposed lead. With the small tip diameter, pushed fast, this bullet should deliver impressive penetration against steel and aluminum plate. What would be ideal is to work up loads for both the 5.7 and .22 TCM using this bullet for a direct comparison. I've already done extensive load development with the Speer bullet in the .22 TCM - pushing it to nearly 2,100 fps from a 4.5" CZ 75B (RIA MAPP FS barrel). The best I've ever managed from the 5.7 with go grains weight is around 1,950 fps "average" which clearly puts the advantage to the .22 TCM. Since the .22 TCM9R can only use the 39 grain Armscor bullet, loads for it are basically working up to the best speed possible. Anther approach is to reform .22 TCM brass into 5.56x24 which is designed to load the 40 grain Armscor bullet, as well as the Speer 40 grain, 46 grain, and even 33 grain bullets while feeding through 9mm size magazines.
Good Idea. I have a lot of macro shots of rounds, and would make good additional info in the video. I try to balance zooming in on stuff so you can get a good look at what I'm using vs having the camera sit there for 30 secs trying to decide what to focus on :D
Good video. I'm beginning to wonder if the American Eagle, for the price, is the best way to go for all around training, and self defense. It cut a clean hole through that steel.
KZ45 I believe that was AE bullets (just the tips) loaded by another company to higher velocties than the factory AE 5.7 ammo is. My experience is that AE 5.7 ammo is weak. I really don't like it. YMMV
If you're defending yourself against unarmored 2 legged prey (almost 100% will be) then the SS197SR is the round you want. Penetrator rounds will leave knitting needle sized holes in them and generally piss them off. The SS197SR has a polymer tip and will tumble immediately upon contact - which is what you want.
Sorry SS197 is to inconsistent and under powered for self defense and carry. If you want a ballistic tip bullet that works well for carry in both the the PS90 and FsN Elite Ammunition's Protector1 is the ticket. If it is just to be used in the FsN EA's Protector2 is the best ballistic tipped round you can get.
The pure lead has more mass than steel, so theoretically when the projectile and plate connect and create that imperfect liquid situation, the higher mass of the lead should push through the less dense steel.
I believe you made a mistake by saying that the T6B did not penetrate the first time out of the 5.7 pistol. You never shot the T6B with the pistol (only with the PS90). You shot the T6 during the first iteration. Moreover, I would LOVE to see if the "Black Dragon Fang" would penetrate the box steel out of the pistol. I love my FN 5.7 pistol... Keep up the great work with the videos!
very cool . its a realy good cartridge for penetration . but how about a common handgun cartrigde against mild steel . maybe 1/8" can defeat a 9mm or a 357 mag 40 sw
@@eduardojesse262 with a vest there is only one load in .40 S&W that might penetrate and that's Liberty Civil Defense. IN 5.7 there are many loads that can penetrate many types of soft vests. I would say against no vest, quality ammunition in either one would work just as well as the other, and you should use whatever you shoot better and can get ammo for.
Got a 6" barrel for the FiveseveN from EKFiredragon awhile back, they had both the 5.4" and the 6", coulda gone with the shorter threaded barrel for the best look but I wanted the most velocity I could get. Interestingly enough the 6" disappeared from the site, now they're just selling the 5.4". Wonder how much velocity I gained from the extra inch...
Thanks. Got myself curious, was about to take some numbers off the official velocity chart and run some ratios against the p90, you just saved me some time and math
Hey MR. Buff , i have a question : I would like to make a necklace from a dragonfang tungsten core , do you have any leftovers from a test ? Would pay for it and the transport :)
@@BuffRANGENIce ,the fact that it is copper makes it easier for me to install the line (Drill hole through). Yes i only would like to have the bullet without the sleeve. Im from Austria :)
@@BuffRANGE Sad, i think youre right! The fact that it has a normed size for 5,7 weapons will make it still categorized as ammunition :/ Didnt tought abaut that. Sorry But thanks for your Attention , and btw your Vids are an absolut exotic Adventure for every gun fetishist. Love :)
It all depends on the metal. Plate steel can be penetrated by a lead core FMJ moving at good speeds (M193) depending on the type of steel. Generally speaking though hardened steel cores and tungsten is where it's at..
+Forge North most AP restrictions are on dealers selling it. Once it's a non FFL's hand there aren't a lot of restrictions unless you're a criminal. State laws vary
10 yards is about the minimum safe distance for proper steel targets if you're using handgun rounds. Angle the steel slightly towards to ground & don't have it rigidly mounted. Another big thing is to never shoot it at a sharp angle. Shoot it straight on or at least pretty close to straight on. I can't guarantee your saftey, but following these rules are almost certain to keep you from any significant issues.
Anyone know the C scale hardness of 14 gauge steel in a shipping container? I'm trying to estimate p90 effectiveness when target is using shipping container as cover, thanks
I'm going to say it's mild and likely of the similar hardness to this. Without me having access to a piece for testing, it's a wild guess. 14 gauge steel is only .075" thick. This box steel here 240% thicker. :D
@@BuffRANGE Thanks for the. Reply. Sounds like a standard FMJ fired from a p90 should be lethal if target is inside container. Probably even penetrate both sides. Might not be lethal if it travels through both sides though. :) wild guesses from me
@@andersmalmgren6528 If I get some 14 gauge steel I can try sometime, but it may be a long time before I would know. And standard FMJ do you mean the American Eagle TMJ or SS190?
The T6 is like his first or second gen of the bullet. The cuts into the bullet may be different as well, but the "b" denotes the coating on the bullet. The "T6" lacks said coating :D
I really like the FiveseveN and the 5.7x28 cartridge but truth be told, the round comes up just shy of it's full potential - but it's not all just the round's fault. Because the cartridge is so long, FN had to compromise somewhere to hold the pistol size in check so a short barrel made sense, even though high-capacity .22 bottleneck cases lose a lot with each incremental loss of barrel length below about 10 inches. So clearly the 5.7 would be a better round if it's base platform had a 6" barrel instead of 4.75"! Then comes the fact that FN has never seen fit to really market the gun and has kept prices high on what should really cost no more than any other mostly polymer pistol. And of course to date, other than custom loaders, nobody but FN makes 5.7 ammo and nobody sells new brass and there are no bullets commercially offered that are specifically tailored to the 5.7x28. This portends a grim future for what could have been a market changing cartridge and gun had the company who introduced it really pushed it instead of essentially making it an orphan offering. Everything in the aftermarket is pure ripoff pricing - barrels for over $400, triggers for nearly $100, magazines over $50, and of course ammo generally nearly $30 a box for basically two choices, unless one is willing to swallow the entire pitcher of Kool-aid and shell out $2-$3 a SHOT for custom ammo which is nothing more exotic than properly loaded with the exception being Elite's turned copper slugs. Meanwhile along comes the .22 TCM. Right off the bat I should point out the brass is developed from .223 rifle brass which means a never ending supply of cases for those willing to form their own, or for those willing to capitalize off selling formed brass to those who want it. However, Armscor is selling new brass in bulk, along with their factory bullets for reloaders, plus there is generally an ample supply of factory ammo in the pipeline. Armscor marketed the .22 TCM as a "range toy" low-recoil alternative to the 9mm or .45 auto in 1911 size pistols. This along turned off a HUGE amount of interest as many were left out of the target group. Armscor has slowly been adding conversion barrels for Glocks and MAPP pistols which also fit EAA pistols and even CZ pistols, but they've stopped short of really pushing the .22 TCM9R for EVERYTHING with a 9mm barrel in it! They also need to offer longer barrels at least a 6" option because, like the 5.7, the .22 TCM/9R really excels with just a bit more barrel - this really excites the hunting crowd. With the introduction of the "9R" spec version of .22 TCM, Armscor can be run through any 9mm size magazine and action which pretty much eliminates any "need" for continued interest in the 5.7x28 other than as a hobby round that is shot very little and preserved as much as possible because the day IS coming when it will no longer be on the market and ammo will become impossible to obtain unless somebody starts making brass....which as I remember the last company to try that changed their mind pretty quickly, but then, if NOBODY is making brass, then it might become economically worth it....though as with all things 5.7x28, everything is expensive far out of proportion to the product's reality. On the other hand, The .22 TCM and TCM9R are the "better" choice for every practical reason, and I hope to see them rise in popularity as more shooters discover they don't have to buy a FiveseveN to have superior .22 bottleneck performance.
Yeah a 7" barrel gets about 125 fps jump from the 4.75" barrel. I definitely agree FN has never really marketed the gun very well. FN as a whole seems to care about military/police/govt contracts and large sales, and little about US Consumer market. "Ohh hey here is a new 9mm handgun every 5-7 yrs that we developed and it's the bees knees, all LEO should adopt this, we give you big discount".. US Consumer "Sweet gun, it runs, how much do mags costs, where can I get aftermarket parts, how can I run a suppressor on it?" FN Customer support: "Warranty Voided, please buy our new SpankySpank Tactical handgun" The FSN has been around for 20 yrs. There's been some good advancements on the FSN, but yeah it costs too much. There's nothing patented about the brass, so nothing is stopping companies from making the brass, except profits, since the FSN, and like 1 other actual 5.7 handgun exists (would like to try the Fort-28), and volumes would be lower. R&D at FN or other big companies is probably many times over EA/RR/VG. It would be very easy for them to see what those companies have done in the 5.7 space and mass produce a bullet aimed at superior performance. I wonder what would happen if @Glock made a 5.7 gun...
Whats great about the 5.7 is the ballistics of the round. Its the most accurate pistol i've ever shot, holds 20 rounds, and can penetrate level3a armorer. The five seven is ready for combat
yeah, when you want something reliable, I'd never choose rimfire. Bullet choice in .22 mag is limited to thin jacket poor performing bullets. No thanks
Obviously a troll but honestly there is a reason why you don’t find any reliable or many .22mag semi auto pistols. Yeah yeah the Keltec, I said reliable. 5.7 is now having a renaissance and the FiveSeveN is a great platform.
![FN Five-seveN 5.7x28mm [HD] Cleaning & Features](/img/1.gif)
I'll never not watch 5.7 content. Would love to see more content with the PS90 sbr.
astrodudepsu will have more this summer :)
5.7 best pistol round it's basically a short 556 in a pistol with 20 round mags and it'll penetrate light armor
Ya im buying a p50 for my first gun.
I know its a BFG but i need something that can break engine blocks while having enough for tires and cab.
Keep getting crazies trying to intentionally hit and run me down.
Been dragged by vehicles, pushed 3 car lengths with a dislocated shoulder and feet on the bumper, feeling the burn as layer after layer of my shoulders rubbing away like sand paper on skin.
Aal
@@anarex0929 why are multiple people trying to run you over?
Thanks for taking up the challenge this sounds interesting
Thanks much brother!
another very cool, very straight to the point video.
I had some WWII German steel cored 9mm. And when they would shoot they would go through everything. Messed up some armor at a shooting range once before we figured out it was steel cored.
Is it possible the steel get's better with age?
lol @ "when they would shoot"
That was worth every second.
VELOCITY is the key. A guy loaded a 55gr .224 std FMJ lead core Sabot in a 300 mag. 5000 fps blew a hole thru a piece of 1/2 AR 500.plate.
Got a video? I've been trying to do 300 WM Sabot and haven't had good luck :(
@@BuffRANGE Search for "5000 fps" that should pull up a dz or so videos.
@@williamkowalchik572 Thanks
It seems with cheap ammo... the hard metal starts the hole and the lead finishes
Interesting results. Be nice to see a more H2H comparison between the 5.7 and .22 TCM. The TCM has been marketed as a "range toy" with .22 magnum, think-jacket bullets with huge exposed nose lead. The 5.7 hit the market with a pre-reputation for being built for armor penetration but in order to avoid being banned was almost immediately neutered with low-velocity loads and in the case of the SS197SR highly frangible bullets not meant for anything larger than small game animals.
Even now, I know of no custom ammo loaders commercially loading "performance" ammo for the .22 TCM even though the cartridge has far greater potential than the 5.7x28. Meanwhile, there are about a half-dozen companies pumping out high-dollar "performance" ammo consisting mostly of commercially available bullets loaded to the the 5.7's proper potential. From what I've seen velocity is more responsible for punching holes through steel and Kevlar considering standard Armscor factory ammo with the thin-skinned .22 magnum slugs punches very well when striking at over 2,000 fps! The .22 TCM9R is even better because the 39 grain short-nose slug has jacket all the way up over the nose with a small hollowpoint making the bullet tend to collapse inward on impact with hard surfaces which makes it a better penetrator. The common factor for the .22 TCM/9R is the high-density lead cores more so than jacket thickness.
A BETTER bullet for the .22 TCM (can't be used in the .22 TCM9R) is the Speer 40 grain Spire point. This slug has a much thicker jacket since it was designed for +3,000 fps, a solid lead core and sharply tapered nose with a tiny amount of exposed lead. With the small tip diameter, pushed fast, this bullet should deliver impressive penetration against steel and aluminum plate. What would be ideal is to work up loads for both the 5.7 and .22 TCM using this bullet for a direct comparison. I've already done extensive load development with the Speer bullet in the .22 TCM - pushing it to nearly 2,100 fps from a 4.5" CZ 75B (RIA MAPP FS barrel). The best I've ever managed from the 5.7 with go grains weight is around 1,950 fps "average" which clearly puts the advantage to the .22 TCM.
Since the .22 TCM9R can only use the 39 grain Armscor bullet, loads for it are basically working up to the best speed possible. Anther approach is to reform .22 TCM brass into 5.56x24 which is designed to load the 40 grain Armscor bullet, as well as the Speer 40 grain, 46 grain, and even 33 grain bullets while feeding through 9mm size magazines.
Yeah about 1950 fps seems to be a good safe limit in 5.7x28mm loads from the pistol. I wonder how it could fair against soft armor.
Maybe show what each round looks like just before you shoot them.
Good Idea. I have a lot of macro shots of rounds, and would make good additional info in the video. I try to balance zooming in on stuff so you can get a good look at what I'm using vs having the camera sit there for 30 secs trying to decide what to focus on :D
Gillly11111 that's a good statement. Drill a very good video . Just would of liked to see the rounds first
I just realized you are a southpaw, Matt.
I shoot rifles either hand, but prefer to shoot pistols with my evil hand :D
Buffman - R.A.N.G.E. LMAO! Love your stuff. Really like your 5.7 bump fire video even though I know it's fairly old.
A custom Tungsten Carbide round would be awsome to test out maybe a Copper jacket with a Tungsten core.
Good test, thanks!
Give me a good defensive round and I'm happy
very nice video
Yes P90!
These rounds are serious
I think ss190 designed for penetrate soft armour,not for hard thing
Right you are. Good to show public demo that it is limited risk against hard items
Good video. I'm beginning to wonder if the American Eagle, for the price, is the best way to go for all around training, and self defense. It cut a clean hole through that steel.
KZ45 I believe that was AE bullets (just the tips) loaded by another company to higher velocties than the factory AE 5.7 ammo is. My experience is that AE 5.7 ammo is weak. I really don't like it. YMMV
Yeah. You'd get the velocity needed from AE TMJ out of the PS90 to do what it did here from the SBR.
Correct it was Elite Ammunition Penetrator 2.0
If you're defending yourself against unarmored 2 legged prey (almost 100% will be) then the SS197SR is the round you want. Penetrator rounds will leave knitting needle sized holes in them and generally piss them off. The SS197SR has a polymer tip and will tumble immediately upon contact - which is what you want.
Sorry SS197 is to inconsistent and under powered for self defense and carry. If you want a ballistic tip bullet that works well for carry in both the the PS90 and FsN Elite Ammunition's Protector1 is the ticket. If it is just to be used in the FsN EA's Protector2 is the best ballistic tipped round you can get.
The pure lead has more mass than steel, so theoretically when the projectile and plate connect and create that imperfect liquid situation, the higher mass of the lead should push through the less dense steel.
I believe you made a mistake by saying that the T6B did not penetrate the first time out of the 5.7 pistol. You never shot the T6B with the pistol (only with the PS90). You shot the T6 during the first iteration. Moreover, I would LOVE to see if the "Black Dragon Fang" would penetrate the box steel out of the pistol. I love my FN 5.7 pistol... Keep up the great work with the videos!
I have some Black Fang, and this same box steel. i'll have to try it.
I think the Dev that you hit on the top deflected about a foot up on the backstop?!
It's very possible!
Left hand shooter interesting
Dude how is that M9A3? I've been wanting one bad! (On the table) I know the pistol is a 5.7 and the bullpup is a ps90
very cool . its a realy good cartridge for penetration . but how about a common handgun cartrigde against mild steel . maybe 1/8" can defeat a 9mm or a 357 mag 40 sw
I can find some 8" mild steel. I just have to be extremely careful about distance and shot angle.
B Souza I would recommend trying the Liberty Defense ammo, they load 50 grain projectiles into common calibers that hit 2000 FPS.
Won't do anything to steel :D
Buffman - R.A.N.G.E. security first friend .i agree
sweet!
Love your videos gracias amigo
5.7 vs .40 cual es mejor ?
Better in what regards?
@@BuffRANGE contra personas con chaleco y sin chaleco
@@eduardojesse262 with a vest there is only one load in .40 S&W that might penetrate and that's Liberty Civil Defense. IN 5.7 there are many loads that can penetrate many types of soft vests. I would say against no vest, quality ammunition in either one would work just as well as the other, and you should use whatever you shoot better and can get ammo for.
You said "A-hole" lol
subliminal swearing :D
Lol, I've been there.
Lol
I'm surprised the T6B did better than the ss190
T6B is moving way faster.
Got a 6" barrel for the FiveseveN from EKFiredragon awhile back, they had both the 5.4" and the 6", coulda gone with the shorter threaded barrel for the best look but I wanted the most velocity I could get. Interestingly enough the 6" disappeared from the site, now they're just selling the 5.4". Wonder how much velocity I gained from the extra inch...
+Charles Murry here’s a good run down ruclips.net/video/qL_KbhhIVkg/видео.html
Thanks. Got myself curious, was about to take some numbers off the official velocity chart and run some ratios against the p90, you just saved me some time and math
Kinda wish I woulda known there was a 7" barrel on EA, but then again not sure I would have paid almost $500 for a barrel. Do want that shroud though
Hey MR. Buff , i have a question : I would like to make a necklace from a dragonfang tungsten core , do you have any leftovers from a test ?
Would pay for it and the transport :)
Black Dragon Fang doesn't have tungsten. It's solid copper. Are you a US citizen? Do you just want the bullet?
@@BuffRANGENIce ,the fact that it is copper makes it easier for me to install the line (Drill hole through). Yes i only would like to have the bullet without the sleeve.
Im from Austria :)
@@richardfritz769 unfortunately I do not think I can ship even bullets out of the country :(
@@BuffRANGE Sad, i think youre right! The fact that it has a normed size for 5,7 weapons will make it still categorized as ammunition :/
Didnt tought abaut that. Sorry
But thanks for your Attention , and btw your Vids are an absolut exotic Adventure for every gun fetishist. Love :)
Just a crazy thought: What would a partition round in 5.7x28 perform like?
Good question. I'm not sure.
Lol the WOUND CHANNEL 🤣 grate play on words
Damn really wanted to see what the Dev 2.0 would have done on the 5.7!!! :(
I'll get some more. It's why I hate only have a few of these rounds for testing. I'm only human and I miss a lot :D
to penetrate metal you need a hard solid bullet. Not copper or FMj
It all depends on the metal. Plate steel can be penetrated by a lead core FMJ moving at good speeds (M193) depending on the type of steel. Generally speaking though hardened steel cores and tungsten is where it's at..
penetrators, tungsten, and depleted uranium are too expensive for a common bullet unless you watch james bond movies.
With ps90 sbr I think 190 is overrated
I thought the ss190 was LE only, which is bull but how did you get your hands on it then?
+Forge North gun broker
Buffman - R.A.N.G.E. hey I don't understand how its exempt from the ban on AP handgun rounds but I'm all for it.
+Forge North most AP restrictions are on dealers selling it. Once it's a non FFL's hand there aren't a lot of restrictions unless you're a criminal. State laws vary
Buffman - R.A.N.G.E. ok so it's old stocks then I guess? That makes sense. Thanks for the response man and great video!
@@forgenorth1444 Not always.
Agencies licensed to buy it sometimes end up with surplus & it eventually makes it's way to the civilian market.
how do you know the correct way to handle ricochet?
It's a crap shoot. Pretty much don't shoot steel at close range.
10 yards is about the minimum safe distance for proper steel targets if you're using handgun rounds.
Angle the steel slightly towards to ground & don't have it rigidly mounted.
Another big thing is to never shoot it at a sharp angle.
Shoot it straight on or at least pretty close to straight on.
I can't guarantee your saftey, but following these rules are almost certain to keep you from any significant issues.
I'm not shooting steel at 7yds.
Anyone know the C scale hardness of 14 gauge steel in a shipping container? I'm trying to estimate p90 effectiveness when target is using shipping container as cover, thanks
I'm going to say it's mild and likely of the similar hardness to this. Without me having access to a piece for testing, it's a wild guess. 14 gauge steel is only .075" thick. This box steel here 240% thicker. :D
@@BuffRANGE Thanks for the. Reply. Sounds like a standard FMJ fired from a p90 should be lethal if target is inside container. Probably even penetrate both sides. Might not be lethal if it travels through both sides though. :) wild guesses from me
@@andersmalmgren6528 If I get some 14 gauge steel I can try sometime, but it may be a long time before I would know. And standard FMJ do you mean the American Eagle TMJ or SS190?
@@BuffRANGE The SS190 (the 31 gr version) seems like its mostly common if i'm not mistaken.
@@BuffRANGE Im trying to combine your data with data from this test :P ruclips.net/video/NP0_A65eJWg/видео.html
It’s stupid ss190 is banned when the AE stuff performs so similarly
Only on weird hard objects. AE TMJ will not penetrate soft and rigid (PE) plates like SS190 will.
How'd you get ss190??
Gunbroker, Armslist, Ammo Seek.
It's not hard to find, it's just expensive.
AE FMJ!
What's the difference between the t6 and t6b?
The T6 is like his first or second gen of the bullet. The cuts into the bullet may be different as well, but the "b" denotes the coating on the bullet. The "T6" lacks said coating :D
@@BuffRANGE Thank you very much for the reply!
Did you do any redbox HP or bluebox HP?
Yeah, but it's not going to go through it, or even make a dent in it. The aluminum core gets pushed out the back just like SS190
You should've showed use the bullets you was shooting
Hard sometimes to zoom on the round then back out when you're solo. I now roll in macro photos of the rounds used.
Why is there copper on the bullet?
The Elite T6B and Dev round are all a solid copper projectile.
Buffman - R.A.N.G.E. sry the question was 4 the SS190.
Jacket is copper on the SS190?
Buffman - R.A.N.G.E. why tho? Is the aluminum not able to penetrate steel??
Waste of money getting an SBR in a caliber like this. You either go pistol or you go 5 5 6 rifle or you go 300 Blackout pistol
I really like the FiveseveN and the 5.7x28 cartridge but truth be told, the round comes up just shy of it's full potential - but it's not all just the round's fault. Because the cartridge is so long, FN had to compromise somewhere to hold the pistol size in check so a short barrel made sense, even though high-capacity .22 bottleneck cases lose a lot with each incremental loss of barrel length below about 10 inches. So clearly the 5.7 would be a better round if it's base platform had a 6" barrel instead of 4.75"! Then comes the fact that FN has never seen fit to really market the gun and has kept prices high on what should really cost no more than any other mostly polymer pistol. And of course to date, other than custom loaders, nobody but FN makes 5.7 ammo and nobody sells new brass and there are no bullets commercially offered that are specifically tailored to the 5.7x28. This portends a grim future for what could have been a market changing cartridge and gun had the company who introduced it really pushed it instead of essentially making it an orphan offering. Everything in the aftermarket is pure ripoff pricing - barrels for over $400, triggers for nearly $100, magazines over $50, and of course ammo generally nearly $30 a box for basically two choices, unless one is willing to swallow the entire pitcher of Kool-aid and shell out $2-$3 a SHOT for custom ammo which is nothing more exotic than properly loaded with the exception being Elite's turned copper slugs.
Meanwhile along comes the .22 TCM. Right off the bat I should point out the brass is developed from .223 rifle brass which means a never ending supply of cases for those willing to form their own, or for those willing to capitalize off selling formed brass to those who want it. However, Armscor is selling new brass in bulk, along with their factory bullets for reloaders, plus there is generally an ample supply of factory ammo in the pipeline. Armscor marketed the .22 TCM as a "range toy" low-recoil alternative to the 9mm or .45 auto in 1911 size pistols. This along turned off a HUGE amount of interest as many were left out of the target group. Armscor has slowly been adding conversion barrels for Glocks and MAPP pistols which also fit EAA pistols and even CZ pistols, but they've stopped short of really pushing the .22 TCM9R for EVERYTHING with a 9mm barrel in it! They also need to offer longer barrels at least a 6" option because, like the 5.7, the .22 TCM/9R really excels with just a bit more barrel - this really excites the hunting crowd.
With the introduction of the "9R" spec version of .22 TCM, Armscor can be run through any 9mm size magazine and action which pretty much eliminates any "need" for continued interest in the 5.7x28 other than as a hobby round that is shot very little and preserved as much as possible because the day IS coming when it will no longer be on the market and ammo will become impossible to obtain unless somebody starts making brass....which as I remember the last company to try that changed their mind pretty quickly, but then, if NOBODY is making brass, then it might become economically worth it....though as with all things 5.7x28, everything is expensive far out of proportion to the product's reality.
On the other hand, The .22 TCM and TCM9R are the "better" choice for every practical reason, and I hope to see them rise in popularity as more shooters discover they don't have to buy a FiveseveN to have superior .22 bottleneck performance.
Yeah a 7" barrel gets about 125 fps jump from the 4.75" barrel. I definitely agree FN has never really marketed the gun very well.
FN as a whole seems to care about military/police/govt contracts and large sales, and little about US Consumer market. "Ohh hey here is a new 9mm handgun every 5-7 yrs that we developed and it's the bees knees, all LEO should adopt this, we give you big discount".. US Consumer "Sweet gun, it runs, how much do mags costs, where can I get aftermarket parts, how can I run a suppressor on it?" FN Customer support: "Warranty Voided, please buy our new SpankySpank Tactical handgun"
The FSN has been around for 20 yrs. There's been some good advancements on the FSN, but yeah it costs too much. There's nothing patented about the brass, so nothing is stopping companies from making the brass, except profits, since the FSN, and like 1 other actual 5.7 handgun exists (would like to try the Fort-28), and volumes would be lower. R&D at FN or other big companies is probably many times over EA/RR/VG. It would be very easy for them to see what those companies have done in the 5.7 space and mass produce a bullet aimed at superior performance.
I wonder what would happen if @Glock made a 5.7 gun...
2 years later & 5.7x28 has never been more popular & .22 TCM is DOA.
Whats great about the 5.7 is the ballistics of the round. Its the most accurate pistol i've ever shot, holds 20 rounds, and can penetrate level3a armorer. The five seven is ready for combat
wow your aim....
Why did l lke dat music name?
First
5.7 sucks better off with a .22 mag
LOL, a rimfire over a centerfire, nope..
Because the way the projectile ignites matters smh
yeah, when you want something reliable, I'd never choose rimfire. Bullet choice in .22 mag is limited to thin jacket poor performing bullets. No thanks
Obviously a troll but honestly there is a reason why you don’t find any reliable or many .22mag semi auto pistols. Yeah yeah the Keltec, I said reliable. 5.7 is now having a renaissance and the FiveSeveN is a great platform.