It seems like the perfect self defence round. Accurate, lower recoil, penetrates vests, dumps energy, doesn't overpenetrate, is reloadable, and comes with 19 or 49 little friends.
@@Smartphone-pl8ix Keep in mind this is a JHP round, not AP. The fact that a HP is penetrating a kevlar only vest is a step up from what we see with larger pistol calibers.
@@Smartphone-pl8ixyou can buy these little black tipped "bullets" off GunBroker again like $4.00 each... And hand load them.... Yeah, they go through about anything....
I am an engineering physicist meaning I do a lot of testing for product improvement, knowledge accumulation, and proof of concept. I will say you have done an excellent job with your testing setup especially considering you are creating and conducting the tests, video recording this, and processing the data all solo.
Well, it turns out that they used an intermediary pistol powder on the slower end so the gains in the longer barrel are there, but not for the rifle lengths. Performance is arguably better than the 40gr ballistic tip ammo from FN and the boutique reloaders. I saw this stuff for $65 the other day. It's likely gone by now! It would seem that CMMG is the ticket with these and most 5.7 ammo. At the end of the day, nothing beats handloading! Great video, thanks again Matt! Edit: I got a response from Speer, and they say that don't offer and didn't have any plans to offer this bullet as a component...but the rep said he'd pass it on to engineering. Still haven't heard from R&R about the R37.X bullet 🙄
Been waiting for this! I thought I was the 5.7 guy.. No.. it’s definitely You! Great vid!!💪🏻💪🏻 Edit Little disappointed with this ammo, going to stick with the Green tips and Black Dragon Fangz
aWeSoMe pReSeNtaTiOn...FuN.......Thank you for taking the time and energy for all our questions. The 5.7x28 gets my attention because of the lightweight handgun and its high capacity. Different and Unique. Worked 7 yrs on and off with the CIA and FBI six years. Toyz... PEACE
$80!! Guess I got lucky $47 a box...I was limited to 2 boxes though. Thanks for the review. I had been looking around RUclips for a review on the 5.7x28 Gold Dot.
The FN Five Seven is really a do it all bullet! The Speer gold dot ammo is great for hunting and self defense. While the SS190 can laser through a armored helmet. This seems like a great tool that can fill so many roles.
Sub’ed to your channel as your one of the only people who tested in multiple barrel lengths and considered many variables. Most other just shot out of a pistol.
Buffman range your 5.7 series of videos got me to subscribe instantly as I just picked up the ruger 5.7 and am loving it I have carry the speer gold dot in alot of calibers of the years so when I saw a box for the 5.7 I grabbed em this is after ammo has got a lil more available and back to non buttfn prices I paid 70 for 50 rounds
Great video. I know everyone thinks brevity is all the rage these days, but I appreciate the in depth video. I especially appreciated your dbx57 video and the takedown of it.
Great job at testing this and for spending the time to create it. But yeah this caliber is just not designed for expansion, it is designed for penetrating them tumbling within a short distance. Hitting that golden 2000 fps with a quality 5.7 ammo type for tumbling is what does the trick. If just wanting to punch small holes then use these very expensive hollow points. May as well use the very underloaded FN blue tips in my opinion for this performance.
Not to mention you’re not getting near the 2000 fps unless you use a 16 inch barrel wich nobody does with these mostly 10 for the p90 and even smaller for pistols lol in my opinion a 5.7 pistol is obsolete, it barely has 150 foot pounds of muzzle energy at any pistol length barrel!! May as well have a 22 LR or 22 Wmr atleast they are cheaper
Like any non "2nd gen" gold dot, this stuff is impressive. I was very fortunate to score 62gr. component bullets for the AR a few months ago. My gut instinct was to hoard, but I resisted. My 200 should last a while. Accurate too. Only took me about 30 rounds to find my load.
@@UnforgivingDemon Agreed.. I haven't shot pistol in forever. I think I have about 250 rounds. Needless to say I bought dies to load pistol. Never thought I'd feel the need to do that. It seems that shortages are becoming more and more common...
You do some the best work for the 5.7 round and I loved it when mr jay wolf mentioned your name. I am just hoping mr wolf starts putting out so help for the Ruger 5.7 but who knows .... keep up the great work and thank you
There’s something that absolutely blows my mind about the 5.7x28. A superior round was developed WAY back in 1963. It used a far more common case, fired 35gr FMJ/HP at 3,000fps from a 18in Barrel, and can be used in both handguns and a very common milsurp rifle. Allow me introduce you to a cartridge way ahead of it’s time. 5.7 MMJ, or .22 Spitfire. It was based off the .30 Carbine round from WW2. It used common cheap surplus M1 Carbines, and it only needed a barrel swap to convert it. It was even used in a pistol with great success by hand loaders and custom gunsmiths. I don’t remember the exact name. It was made by AMT back in the 90s in .30 Carbine. Gunsmiths converted it to .22 Spitfire and the only down side was the bullets wouldn’t hold together. Why? Because the bullets that were used at the time couldn’t hold together at those velocities. BUT, I think now is the time that .22 Spitfire makes a comeback. I think we should try it with 5.7x28 bullets and see how they hold together in a pistol and carbine. Given the velocities achieved in the ‘60s-‘70s I think it would be the equivalent of a 5.7x28 Magnum. Assuming the bullets hold together that is. It would slot right between 5.7 and 5.56 in terms of range and power. M1 Carbines are still on the cheap side. Especially if you go with a good reproduction. Accuracy of those has been proven to be good, and they have a (relatively) large selection of tactical options available. Just look at the Inland tactical version as of 2023. With the right bullet and load development we could beat the 5.7 soundly.
Great video sir. I've been doing research for days on what ammo to use for AP and it's good to see that the speer gold dot performs in that way. Thanks for the leg work,
Right on! Bear in mind though Speer changed the design of this bullet and SLOWED it down 100 fps. The good design you see here is not the same as the current production lots..
Badass video (as usual) badass lil round!! That CMMG has me ready to spend the cash on one.... Id love to see you pop a few open and reload a little hotter just for shits and giggles! Thanks again
@Cerus98 a few grains different?? Um that would affect ANY caliber your reloading! If your equipment is that far off you have a big issue!! My scale if I just drop charge only varies a tenth…… if Im running loads on the edge I trickle charge every round….. so no In my experience its a bottle necked cartridge that I can load pretty easily.
@@BuffRANGE don't talk about that firearm until I buy one. I figured everyone's attention will turn to the Kel-Tec P50 which will leave the price dropping on the Diamondback for me to purchase.
I think they need to spice up the 5.7 gold dot abit. Would be better if it was 2000 fps out of the handgun. I think it would operate better out of the PS90 too. Still, it's too expensive for what it offers. As usual, great video! Thank you for all you do!
For feed problems on the ps90, clean the feed lips on the magazine. The powder that blows back pollutes the feed lips inside the magazine. It doesn’t stop feeding, but slows down the next round from dropping into place on time.
Sorry sir or mam I beg to have an opinion the long barrel ps90 is a horrendous horrible ugly gun this is not satire if someone said they had a ps90 for sale for 100 dollars and I cudnt resell it if purchase it I wudnt buy it
Buffman: Ok, Mr. Chrono. I just need to gauge 1 shot. I'll place it right down the wheelhouse. Just gimme a velocity reading. Chrono: The velocity is FUCK YOU. That's what.
I’ve always loved gold dot ammo. A loooooooooooooong time ago when I got my first g19 (about 20 years ago). I actually used to use gold dot at the range quite a bit. I’d say 50/50 with ball ammo. Now there’s now way in hell I’d do that. But you do have to practice with your actual self defense ammo to know how it performs.
Be advised...the round has changed since his video. I'm surprised by his low velocities, given I see a "20" headstamp early in the vid. I got 2 boxes with same year on it, and mine have been north of 1830 from the Ruger 57, and last test was 1856. The newer rounds with a "22" are down to about 1725. And the bullet changed (less open tip). But the biggest disappointment is what they did in gel. I shot them last week and the old stuff worked great, the new stuff did virtually nothing. Working on a vid. But I'd suggest DO NOT carry that new stuff for defense. I'm P.O.'d that I was carrying it for many months, thinking it was the same. It's not.
I had a choice between 5.7 and 22tcm/9r. I went with 22tcm buying a 1911A2 tac ultra (17 shot Commander length railed 9mm/22tcm combo) and the m22 bolt action rifle. As I don't own a chronograph, the RUclipsrs are clocking 1850 fps from the 4.25 " pistol barrel and 2750 fps from the 22.5 " rifle barrel. I was surprised the 16" 5.7 didn't make at least 2300-2400 fps. I like 22tcm. Out of the pistols in the 40gr. weight there's probably not a lot of difference. Well, I have to add...respectfully...I'm still paying only $18-$19 for a box of 50, and even at the height of the pandemic availability was not a problem. I guess that's one advantage to shooting a caliber that no one else does.
The 40gr is a pretty heavy bullet for 5.7. It shines with 35gr and under bullets. That's where 5.7 shines over the 22 TCM. It literally can us almost any 22 cal bullet from 28-62gr, and maintain full charge capacity. 22TCM/9R seems to be centered around 1 specific bullet time to achieve that velocity and function :)
@@BuffRANGE All of my previous research before making my choice indicated the faster velocities from the lighter bullets in 5.7x28. Both of my guns shoot 22tcm and 22tcm9r interchangeably and while the choice between 40 grains and 39 grains isn't really much choice at all, the heavier projectiles may have some advantage downrange for hunting purposes. I very much appreciate your having taken the time to respond, but I'm still kind of stymied about the 16" barrels velocity. I like your videos quite a bit, and I'm not trying to sound like a smart alek, but $18.50 for a box of 50 with that kind of performance is my kind of cartridge. Thanks, and I'm looking forward to your next video. You're one of my go to channels for good information.
I think you made the better choice - and not because of some anti-Five-Seven bias since I own two of them and have loaded thousands of rounds of ammo of many different bullet types, and I absolutely believe the caliber is ideal for defensive street use in contravention to the the herd. The efficacy of the 5.7x28 round as fired from a handgun was definitively proved in 2009 at Ft. Hood. Of approximately 120 shots expended, 43 casualties were produced at CLOSE to intermediate handgun distance, and the victims were all reasonably young, in excellent shape, and by all accounts attempted to intervene by direct attack. Of the total, 12 were killed which is just under 30% killed, on par with all other handgun calibers per the Ellifritz study. Factoring in a conservative number of missed shots, the average number of shots per "casualty" produced was around 1.6 which is also in the ball park of the Ellifritz study findings. So any "uncertainty" as to 5.7x28 effectiveness was answered within the first decade of it's appearance. The FsN is large, but light, with a full polymer skin and frame. Fully loaded it's still lighter than most sub-compact 9x19 single-stack semiautos. The round was designed from the outset to be a modern replacement for the over 100 year old 9mm, and was purposely designed around modern understanding of effectiveness, wounding power, and armor penetration. The tiny .224" diameter bullet has a penetration factor approximately 3.5 times greater than the 9mm "ball" round, and the military bullet was designed to tumble and create a large wound channel - much like modern, small-caliber rifle theory. Bear in mind that the Ft. Hood shooter was using OTC SS197SR with Vmax bullets loaded to rather pedestrian velocities compared to the original spec "military" round. So the bona-fides of the 5.7x28 are there for any and all to see with absolute crystal clarity. However, the FN Five-Seven is expensive (the Ruger 57 is helping to bring the 5.7x28 more mainstream), and the ammo is built around a unique case design with no parent case making it extremely difficult for intrepid hand loaders to form their own cases. Hand loading also requires expert level loading knowledge. In a world where the average person can buy a decent 9mm for under $300 and 50 round boxes of ammo for $12, the FN Five-Seven was and is more of a "range toy" by the standards of Jolene Q. Public. The 5.7x28 is a "specialist's choice" that few can even afford, which forms the basis for endless bashing by the herd. From a hand loading perspective, 40 grain weight bullets can be safely loaded to over 1,800 fps, and 30 grain bullets to 2,200 fps., but any 5.7x28 load commercially available is bad news for the recipient. Then comes the .22 TCM and subsequent .22 TCM9R - introduced by Armscor as a "range practice round" in order to avoid creating yet another public image as a cartridge designed purely to kill, maim, and penetrate police vests. Initially chambered in 1911 size handguns, the .22 TCM sends a 40 grain JHP out of a 5" barrel at over 2,100 fps! That alone tells the discerning mind that the .22 TCM is superior to the 5.7x28 with 400 fps more speed or 18% faster. The cartridge is also based on the .223 Remington parent case which means the intrepid hand loader can easily (well...kind of) form cases from inexpensive surplus brass, and even post Covid, .223/5.56 brass is still highly available. Due to it's rather large body to neck ratio, the .22 TCM is extremely reliable in chambering, and the thick case head and web make it much safer to reload. Armscor also makes enough ammo to keep their creation going while it waits for the world to catch up. While not "cheap" by 9mm standards, less than $20/box (pre-Covid) isn't exactly bank breaking. Handgun acquisition is half the price of the Five-Seven for a high-capacity 1911 pattern handgun that appeals to the more traditional shooter. Handloading for the .22 TCM is straightforward, but still expert level. Factory .22 TCM ammo complete with large exposed lead HP nose will penetrate steel plate the 9mm FMJ barely dents. The .22 TCM can be hand loaded with any of the short nosed, commercially available rifle bullets, and the Speer 40 gr. Spire point has a boldly tapered nose, tiny exposed lead tip, and thick jacket, plus it's inexpensive. But for those not into hand loading, factory-to-factory, the .22 TCM is by far the superior choice for carrying in the urban jungle save for weight.
Awesome vid brother. I appreciate your attention to in depth analysis. Could not fully understand what type of rd extension you had with the Ruger 57. Would you please reference it once again ? All the best to you. Keep up the stellar work
Matt, I have often thought. Why is there no Barnes TSX 30-35gr 5.7 offering? After seeing those GD loads blow through IIIA. That maybe why... Just always figured a light weight Barnes pill would work well in this caliber. But perhaps it would work too well. Keep up the good work.
You know honestly I think that's what is holding company's back. We know with any velocity bullets can defeat soft armor, or that coupled with bullet composition. R&R weapon systems makes an expanding 37gr bullet that performs very nicely. There's no reason Barnes can't make something just like it.
This caliber would benefit so much from spoon tip projectiles that it isn't even fun. Still, no one is making and selling them. Or if they are I couldn't find any so far. The day you guys take a hot loaded round and fabricate your own on your home with a drill or another tool you will get a little surprised by the damage achieved on meat by the tumbling projectile.
I wonder how much more that would affect the ones that already tumble. I believe this tumbled to based on the the wound path, but I would need higher speed cameras to confirm.
These rounds are deadly.... I took down a doe at 30 yards w/ my Ruger 57 using this round!! Thanks for the video it was one of the reasons I chose this round to hunt with.
Great video I’d really like to see the windshield glass test The only thing I’d add would be windshield sim and interior barrier pen à la sage dynamics Speer gold dot testing video in 9mm This has definitely changed my mind a bit on the caliber and especially this loading with the metal and armor test Honestly the bare gel test is a little underwhelming but can’t really do much with 5.7 I just expected it to mayyybe be loaded a little hotter for being a 40 grain I’d have liked to see it towards the mid 1800 FPS range
Bare in mind that commercial loaders in US have been dialing back these loads to likely fall under the radar, after the Brady Bunch Crap. Do you have a link to this test? The Speer 5.7 is a "I'm at the gun store and I bought this gun, I need SD ammo, but know nothing about the ammo, what can I buy?". Does it perform, sure, but there are better loads available that outperform it. Really wish larger place would make these solid copper loads like eA T6B or Black Dragon Fang.
Buffman - R.A.N.G.E. It’s his gen 2 gold dot test just in case RUclips decides to crap out on the link ruclips.net/video/9-q_y3UyXw4/видео.html Brady bunch crap? Bring me up to speed I pretty much live under a rock I’m not gonna lie
@@MyLonewolf25 Years ago Brady Bunch said "OMG Five-SevenN cop Killer, ban it". SO FN had a test performed to show that SS196/7 would not penetrate IIIA armor, and that SS192 that could wasn't offered to civilians. AE TMJ will penetrate IIIA at higher speeds, and you'll note from my testing it's capped around 1650 fps. So it's interesting that the Gold dot can :D
@@brikeswardebbarma4029 This is an ideal vmax velocity for the 5.7. It could be better but this provides us with more penetration: ruclips.net/video/p9Fw0i6Iabo/видео.html
Once I get a 57 I think I will be running the black fang because of your recommendations but this round seems to have potential as well. You mentioned the R37x at the end do you think the R&R round is more effective than the Speer?
It could be a toss up. I want to re-test the R37X and see how it does in the P90, and possible see if that extra velocity would help it penetrate the Hybrid IIIA. The expansion diameter of the R37X is over 1/2" from the pistol :D
Underwood’s 9mm Extreme Defender 65 grain chronographs at ~1800 fps from a 5” barrel and the Underwood .357 Sig 65 grain Extreme Defender averages ~2100 fps! So, greater velocity, larger diameter and a heavier projectile with the Underwood ammo. FWIW.
Also less ballistic coefficient equaling less effective range. Not to mention it's a hollow point and could lead to less than optimal penetration. Will have to look for some vids on that one.
Wow that round really penetrates a little too much for my taste. I was so looking to getting a box bbn or two of this round, with what I saw in this video it's off my bucket list damn damn damn
That being said what is your benchmark for superiority? Every test I’ve seen you perform the ruger is putting the cmmg, p90, and the original 5.7 to shame im not trolling I’m just curious are you dinging the ruger for over penetration?
![Is 5.7x28mm Just Overpriced .22 Magnum? [Part 1]](/img/1.gif)
That was 1 hell of an extensive ballistic test and I really appreciate it.
That's what I'm here for. I don't tend to do that many barriers, but since this was Speer, I felt it needed a good beating.
You're not kidding! Well done.
One of the best ammo testers on youtube. I aspire my channel to be 50% this good someday
It seems like the perfect self defence round. Accurate, lower recoil, penetrates vests, dumps energy, doesn't overpenetrate, is reloadable, and comes with 19 or 49 little friends.
Its not penetrating level 3a vests which is one of the reasons 5.7 was made
@@Smartphone-pl8ix
Keep in mind this is a JHP round, not AP. The fact that a HP is penetrating a kevlar only vest is a step up from what we see with larger pistol calibers.
And babies if you count the pedals
@@Smartphone-pl8ixyou can buy these little black tipped "bullets" off GunBroker again like $4.00 each... And hand load them.... Yeah, they go through about anything....
I am an engineering physicist meaning I do a lot of testing for product improvement, knowledge accumulation, and proof of concept. I will say you have done an excellent job with your testing setup especially considering you are creating and conducting the tests, video recording this, and processing the data all solo.
Thank you!
Great video and testing effort, that is a lot of work! Don't apologize for video length, I appreciated the detail.
Agreed.👍
Thanks for the thorough review. Glad to see speer supporting the 5.7
You bet
Video did not get too long. There is no filler in this video it's all good stuff.
I’m really digging this cartridge more and more…keep up the 5.7 content sir!
You got it.
He is steady on the 5.7 game
If I get off my ass I'll have another one for Ar15.com in about a week.
@@BuffRANGE more 5.7 content; PS90 or CMMG please.
I appreciate it all too! Keeps us all well informed. I’ve made some purchases all because of his videos that I am more than pleased with.
Well, it turns out that they used an intermediary pistol powder on the slower end so the gains in the longer barrel are there, but not for the rifle lengths. Performance is arguably better than the 40gr ballistic tip ammo from FN and the boutique reloaders.
I saw this stuff for $65 the other day. It's likely gone by now! It would seem that CMMG is the ticket with these and most 5.7 ammo. At the end of the day, nothing beats handloading! Great video, thanks again Matt!
Edit: I got a response from Speer, and they say that don't offer and didn't have any plans to offer this bullet as a component...but the rep said he'd pass it on to engineering. Still haven't heard from R&R about the R37.X bullet 🙄
Nobody does 5.7x28 like the Buffman! I love your work.
Thank You :D
@@BuffRANGE Wish I could share a picture of My PS-90 SBR here. Maybe on the FN page...
Been waiting for this! I thought I was the 5.7 guy.. No.. it’s definitely You! Great vid!!💪🏻💪🏻
Edit
Little disappointed with this ammo, going to stick with the Green tips and Black Dragon Fangz
Appreciate it!!
Black Dragon Fang is 🔥
*Matt, I really enjoyed your Kermit bent over imagery.*
That's pretty much how I feel buying 5.7 ammo right now.
aWeSoMe pReSeNtaTiOn...FuN.......Thank you for taking the time and energy for all our questions. The 5.7x28 gets my attention because of the lightweight handgun and its high capacity. Different and Unique. Worked 7 yrs on and off with the CIA and FBI six years. Toyz... PEACE
Okay kermit the frog bent over was hilarious.
$80!! Guess I got lucky $47 a box...I was limited to 2 boxes though. Thanks for the review. I had been looking around RUclips for a review on the 5.7x28 Gold Dot.
I am kind of the 5.7 King :D
I like the ss198lf best for my 5.7 do it all. ss195lf would be my 2nd choice.
The FN Five Seven is really a do it all bullet! The Speer gold dot ammo is great for hunting and self defense. While the SS190 can laser through a armored helmet. This seems like a great tool that can fill so many roles.
Sub’ed to your channel as your one of the only people who tested in multiple barrel lengths and considered many variables. Most other just shot out of a pistol.
Thank you!
Buffman range your 5.7 series of videos got me to subscribe instantly as I just picked up the ruger 5.7 and am loving it I have carry the speer gold dot in alot of calibers of the years so when I saw a box for the 5.7 I grabbed em this is after ammo has got a lil more available and back to non buttfn prices I paid 70 for 50 rounds
So glad to see this. I shoot both a PS90 and a Ruger 57 and would love to find the best load for each of them.
I’m ordering boxes Now!!!! Buffman my brother!!!!!!
Got a like and a sub for all the work you put into this. I’ve Ben looking for a video that didn’t just talk about the rounds
Why thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to stop and watch :D
Wow! That 5" Ruger pistol barrel was def that best as far as averages. All tests were right at 17" with it. Plate, denim and uncovered.
The 5" Ruger barrel even penetrated the armor and went the furthest at 14". I'm sold
Dang i was hoping for a 1776 velocity. The speed of freedom
Great video. I know everyone thinks brevity is all the rage these days, but I appreciate the in depth video. I especially appreciated your dbx57 video and the takedown of it.
Glad it was helpful!
The amount of work, effort and info you put out there is second to none! You the man Matt 👍
I appreciate that!
Lot of work and great test. You must be a fan of the caliber.
It would be accurate to say I'm becoming somewhat of an subject matter expert on 5.7 :D
Macros: flic.kr/s/aHsmRgRZTo
Great job at testing this and for spending the time to create it.
But yeah this caliber is just not designed for expansion, it is designed for penetrating them tumbling within a short distance. Hitting that golden 2000 fps with a quality 5.7 ammo type for tumbling is what does the trick. If just wanting to punch small holes then use these very expensive hollow points. May as well use the very underloaded FN blue tips in my opinion for this performance.
Not to mention you’re not getting near the 2000 fps unless you use a 16 inch barrel wich nobody does with these mostly 10 for the p90 and even smaller for pistols lol in my opinion a 5.7 pistol is obsolete, it barely has 150 foot pounds of muzzle energy at any pistol length barrel!! May as well have a 22 LR or 22 Wmr atleast they are cheaper
@@mrgrump2534
You clearly didn’t watch the video, these were 280 ft pounds average from 5” barrels.
amazing and very thorough test thank you for the hard work
Our pleasure!
Like any non "2nd gen" gold dot, this stuff is impressive. I was very fortunate to score 62gr. component bullets for the AR a few months ago. My gut instinct was to hoard, but I resisted. My 200 should last a while. Accurate too. Only took me about 30 rounds to find my load.
Matt Fleming I should have stocked up when it was 60 cpr I kick myself for not buying more.
@@UnforgivingDemon Agreed.. I haven't shot pistol in forever. I think I have about 250 rounds. Needless to say I bought dies to load pistol. Never thought I'd feel the need to do that. It seems that shortages are becoming more and more common...
You do some the best work for the 5.7 round and I loved it when mr jay wolf mentioned your name. I am just hoping mr wolf starts putting out so help for the Ruger 5.7 but who knows .... keep up the great work and thank you
He really should :D
Buffman - R.A.N.G.E. Please talk to him I know he is a FN guy to his core and I can’t have one of those but all of his parts are the best
Thank you for the testing that you do.
You are very welcome. I hope I gave you some data you found helpfuL!
There’s something that absolutely blows my mind about the 5.7x28. A superior round was developed WAY back in 1963. It used a far more common case, fired 35gr FMJ/HP at 3,000fps from a 18in Barrel, and can be used in both handguns and a very common milsurp rifle. Allow me introduce you to a cartridge way ahead of it’s time. 5.7 MMJ, or .22 Spitfire. It was based off the .30 Carbine round from WW2. It used common cheap surplus M1 Carbines, and it only needed a barrel swap to convert it. It was even used in a pistol with great success by hand loaders and custom gunsmiths. I don’t remember the exact name. It was made by AMT back in the 90s in .30 Carbine. Gunsmiths converted it to .22 Spitfire and the only down side was the bullets wouldn’t hold together. Why? Because the bullets that were used at the time couldn’t hold together at those velocities. BUT, I think now is the time that .22 Spitfire makes a comeback. I think we should try it with 5.7x28 bullets and see how they hold together in a pistol and carbine. Given the velocities achieved in the ‘60s-‘70s I think it would be the equivalent of a 5.7x28 Magnum. Assuming the bullets hold together that is. It would slot right between 5.7 and 5.56 in terms of range and power. M1 Carbines are still on the cheap side. Especially if you go with a good reproduction. Accuracy of those has been proven to be good, and they have a (relatively) large selection of tactical options available. Just look at the Inland tactical version as of 2023. With the right bullet and load development we could beat the 5.7 soundly.
no disagreement there, but acceptance and use would be very limited.
thanks for this video, was looking into the round's capabilities
My pleasure.
Randy's coffee cup promo is gonna live at least another 50 years!!
At least. :)
Velocity of 4016 feet per second wow those really are super ionic ammo ! 😯👍🏾
Haha that's me likely creating a shadow on the chrono moving it around :D
Another great video. This should be named the 5.7 Channel. You are the man on 5.7👍
Thanks 👍
Mind the Monkey doll falling at 25:50…. This is very good ammo nonetheless.
Loved how your channel has become more
Refined over time.
Great video sir. I've been doing research for days on what ammo to use for AP and it's good to see that the speer gold dot performs in that way. Thanks for the leg work,
The caveat is that this only does this with this design Gold Dot. They changed it ruclips.net/video/vA0AZS-x4C0/видео.html
Great vid. Got a S&W M&P 5.7 recently and looking for a good defensive round for it. Thanks for the in depth vid. 👍
Right on! Bear in mind though Speer changed the design of this bullet and SLOWED it down 100 fps. The good design you see here is not the same as the current production lots..
Badass video (as usual) badass lil round!! That CMMG has me ready to spend the cash on one.... Id love to see you pop a few open and reload a little hotter just for shits and giggles! Thanks again
I really want to see how the DBX compares to the MK57 conversion :D Only supposed to be 3lbs!
@Cerus98 Ive reloaded for over a decade and reloading 5.7 is no different then any other round….. same fundamentals easy peasy
@Cerus98 a few grains different?? Um that would affect ANY caliber your reloading! If your equipment is that far off you have a big issue!! My scale if I just drop charge only varies a tenth…… if Im running loads on the edge I trickle charge every round….. so no In my experience its a bottle necked cartridge that I can load pretty easily.
@@BuffRANGE don't talk about that firearm until I buy one. I figured everyone's attention will turn to the Kel-Tec P50 which will leave the price dropping on the Diamondback for me to purchase.
14:06 these new 5.7 loads are screaming fast. You're getting .22-250 velocities out of these babies haha
HAHAH :D that was from me moving the chrono and swiping my hand over it.
I think they need to spice up the 5.7 gold dot abit. Would be better if it was 2000 fps out of the handgun. I think it would operate better out of the PS90 too. Still, it's too expensive for what it offers. As usual, great video! Thank you for all you do!
there's video of the Speer rep at Shot Show admitting they intentionally gimped the round. stick with Elite
Really where?
@@BuffRANGE he catches himself and tries to spin it. about 1:20
ruclips.net/video/l5Uu9FrEkbM/видео.html
@@doncowboy6625 Interesting. Wonder why they didn't want to go for those velocities..
@Jones I thought the bronze tip was just a really good hunting load. Were their concerns about about it's 2 legged lethality ?
For feed problems on the ps90, clean the feed lips on the magazine. The powder that blows back pollutes the feed lips inside the magazine. It doesn’t stop feeding, but slows down the next round from dropping into place on time.
This was even present on brand new mags.
This is one round I’ve never under stood , but I do appreciate all the work u have done to make the video
Not a fan of 5.7x28mm? Regardless I thank you for stopping by!
I know doing the SBR on a PS90 seems like a "should", but I don't think I would. I like the longer barrel and it's still an extremely compact system.
Sorry sir or mam I beg to have an opinion the long barrel ps90 is a horrendous horrible ugly gun this is not satire if someone said they had a ps90 for sale for 100 dollars and I cudnt resell it if purchase it I wudnt buy it
I agree. I prefer the extra velocity.
OH YEAH BROTHER!
i bought this stuff 2 weeks ago. been waiting on a review before trying it out myself.
Retail price ?????
@@jamiekiser1456 i bought it at 40$ a box at sheels.
AAC 5.7 ballistic tip performance is the best 40 gr I’ve seen so far
Love the thorough and in depth testing.
Very helpful, thanks Buffman!
Happy to help!
Great vid!
Them cmmg 5.7s ... Sexxxy af bro. I knew you were gonna pull trigger on one!! Lol. Sucker for that 5.7 lol. But yea I mite go for the upper/3 mag deal
Buffman: Ok, Mr. Chrono. I just need to gauge 1 shot. I'll place it right down the wheelhouse. Just gimme a velocity reading.
Chrono: The velocity is FUCK YOU. That's what.
Pretty much :D
Upvoted just for that bonkers intro to the ammo box Lol! Also for the excellent as always testing and recording of the information, of course.
I’ve always loved gold dot ammo. A loooooooooooooong time ago when I got my first g19 (about 20 years ago). I actually used to use gold dot at the range quite a bit. I’d say 50/50 with ball ammo. Now there’s now way in hell I’d do that.
But you do have to practice with your actual self defense ammo to know how it performs.
Be advised...the round has changed since his video. I'm surprised by his low velocities, given I see a "20" headstamp early in the vid. I got 2 boxes with same year on it, and mine have been north of 1830 from the Ruger 57, and last test was 1856. The newer rounds with a "22" are down to about 1725. And the bullet changed (less open tip). But the biggest disappointment is what they did in gel. I shot them last week and the old stuff worked great, the new stuff did virtually nothing. Working on a vid. But I'd suggest DO NOT carry that new stuff for defense. I'm P.O.'d that I was carrying it for many months, thinking it was the same. It's not.
It was to be released with the Ruger and it was not. It should be available for a normal price from a shop.
Awesome video, keep up the great job.
Thanks for the visit
I had a choice between 5.7 and 22tcm/9r.
I went with 22tcm buying a 1911A2 tac ultra (17 shot Commander length railed 9mm/22tcm combo) and the m22 bolt action rifle.
As I don't own a chronograph, the RUclipsrs are clocking 1850 fps from the 4.25 " pistol barrel and 2750 fps from the 22.5 " rifle barrel.
I was surprised the 16" 5.7 didn't make at least 2300-2400 fps.
I like 22tcm. Out of the pistols in the 40gr. weight there's probably not a lot of difference.
Well, I have to add...respectfully...I'm still paying only $18-$19 for a box of 50, and even at the height of the pandemic availability was not a problem. I guess that's one advantage to shooting a caliber that no one else does.
The 40gr is a pretty heavy bullet for 5.7. It shines with 35gr and under bullets. That's where 5.7 shines over the 22 TCM. It literally can us almost any 22 cal bullet from 28-62gr, and maintain full charge capacity. 22TCM/9R seems to be centered around 1 specific bullet time to achieve that velocity and function :)
@@BuffRANGE All of my previous research before making my choice indicated the faster velocities from the lighter bullets in 5.7x28.
Both of my guns shoot 22tcm and 22tcm9r interchangeably and while the choice between 40 grains and 39 grains isn't really much choice at all, the heavier projectiles may have some advantage downrange for hunting purposes.
I very much appreciate your having taken the time to respond, but I'm still kind of stymied about the 16" barrels velocity.
I like your videos quite a bit, and I'm not trying to sound like a smart alek, but $18.50 for a box of 50 with that kind of performance is my kind of cartridge.
Thanks, and I'm looking forward to your next video. You're one of my go to channels for good information.
I think you made the better choice - and not because of some anti-Five-Seven bias since I own two of them and have loaded thousands of rounds of ammo of many different bullet types, and I absolutely believe the caliber is ideal for defensive street use in contravention to the the herd. The efficacy of the 5.7x28 round as fired from a handgun was definitively proved in 2009 at Ft. Hood. Of approximately 120 shots expended, 43 casualties were produced at CLOSE to intermediate handgun distance, and the victims were all reasonably young, in excellent shape, and by all accounts attempted to intervene by direct attack. Of the total, 12 were killed which is just under 30% killed, on par with all other handgun calibers per the Ellifritz study. Factoring in a conservative number of missed shots, the average number of shots per "casualty" produced was around 1.6 which is also in the ball park of the Ellifritz study findings. So any "uncertainty" as to 5.7x28 effectiveness was answered within the first decade of it's appearance. The FsN is large, but light, with a full polymer skin and frame. Fully loaded it's still lighter than most sub-compact 9x19 single-stack semiautos. The round was designed from the outset to be a modern replacement for the over 100 year old 9mm, and was purposely designed around modern understanding of effectiveness, wounding power, and armor penetration. The tiny .224" diameter bullet has a penetration factor approximately 3.5 times greater than the 9mm "ball" round, and the military bullet was designed to tumble and create a large wound channel - much like modern, small-caliber rifle theory. Bear in mind that the Ft. Hood shooter was using OTC SS197SR with Vmax bullets loaded to rather pedestrian velocities compared to the original spec "military" round. So the bona-fides of the 5.7x28 are there for any and all to see with absolute crystal clarity. However, the FN Five-Seven is expensive (the Ruger 57 is helping to bring the 5.7x28 more mainstream), and the ammo is built around a unique case design with no parent case making it extremely difficult for intrepid hand loaders to form their own cases. Hand loading also requires expert level loading knowledge. In a world where the average person can buy a decent 9mm for under $300 and 50 round boxes of ammo for $12, the FN Five-Seven was and is more of a "range toy" by the standards of Jolene Q. Public. The 5.7x28 is a "specialist's choice" that few can even afford, which forms the basis for endless bashing by the herd.
From a hand loading perspective, 40 grain weight bullets can be safely loaded to over 1,800 fps, and 30 grain bullets to 2,200 fps., but any 5.7x28 load commercially available is bad news for the recipient.
Then comes the .22 TCM and subsequent .22 TCM9R - introduced by Armscor as a "range practice round" in order to avoid creating yet another public image as a cartridge designed purely to kill, maim, and penetrate police vests. Initially chambered in 1911 size handguns, the .22 TCM sends a 40 grain JHP out of a 5" barrel at over 2,100 fps! That alone tells the discerning mind that the .22 TCM is superior to the 5.7x28 with 400 fps more speed or 18% faster. The cartridge is also based on the .223 Remington parent case which means the intrepid hand loader can easily (well...kind of) form cases from inexpensive surplus brass, and even post Covid, .223/5.56 brass is still highly available. Due to it's rather large body to neck ratio, the .22 TCM is extremely reliable in chambering, and the thick case head and web make it much safer to reload. Armscor also makes enough ammo to keep their creation going while it waits for the world to catch up. While not "cheap" by 9mm standards, less than $20/box (pre-Covid) isn't exactly bank breaking. Handgun acquisition is half the price of the Five-Seven for a high-capacity 1911 pattern handgun that appeals to the more traditional shooter. Handloading for the .22 TCM is straightforward, but still expert level. Factory .22 TCM ammo complete with large exposed lead HP nose will penetrate steel plate the 9mm FMJ barely dents. The .22 TCM can be hand loaded with any of the short nosed, commercially available rifle bullets, and the Speer 40 gr. Spire point has a boldly tapered nose, tiny exposed lead tip, and thick jacket, plus it's inexpensive. But for those not into hand loading, factory-to-factory, the .22 TCM is by far the superior choice for carrying in the urban jungle save for weight.
Awesome vid brother. I appreciate your attention to in depth analysis.
Could not fully understand what type of rd extension you had with the Ruger 57.
Would you please reference it once again ?
All the best to you.
Keep up the stellar work
f5mfg.com/product/ruger-57-magazine-extension/ :D
Thanks for the video!
Love your content! Keep it coming!
Thank you! Will do!
Buff-o-mania brother.. 😎
Steady rocking keep clocking lucky you for getting the ammo I so desperately need and seek but am not willing to do a Kermit the frog move for
Yeah Kosher just posted stock of the Gold Dot yesterday and it's salty at $94/box :O
@@BuffRANGE how many rounds let me guess 50
@@samrowe2889 yep.. www.koshersurplus.com/product/speer-gold-dot-5-7x28mm-ammo-40-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-50-round-box/
16:52
Canadians: Nervous laughter
A 5.7 PDW in an MP7-style design would make a pretty amazing HD gun.
Someone is making one styled like it for the Ruger 57
Who else was hoping to see a velocity of 1776?
Matt, I have often thought. Why is there no Barnes TSX 30-35gr 5.7 offering?
After seeing those GD loads blow through IIIA. That maybe why... Just always figured a light weight Barnes pill would work well in this caliber. But perhaps it would work too well.
Keep up the good work.
You know honestly I think that's what is holding company's back. We know with any velocity bullets can defeat soft armor, or that coupled with bullet composition. R&R weapon systems makes an expanding 37gr bullet that performs very nicely. There's no reason Barnes can't make something just like it.
80$ ooofff..great vid
Thank you, very informative!! 💪💪💪
Glad it was helpful!
Very good Video. Can’t wait to get some to shoot!
This caliber would benefit so much from spoon tip projectiles that it isn't even fun. Still, no one is making and selling them. Or if they are I couldn't find any so far.
The day you guys take a hot loaded round and fabricate your own on your home with a drill or another tool you will get a little surprised by the damage achieved on meat by the tumbling projectile.
I wonder how much more that would affect the ones that already tumble. I believe this tumbled to based on the the wound path, but I would need higher speed cameras to confirm.
Their out!? Been waiting.
According to Speer no, but yet many gun stores have them now
Lovely. The permanent wound channels look very similar to the 55-grain .223 Gold Dots I tested a while back. Killer footage.
* just shorter and narrower.
Great test vid. Thanks.
Thank you!
These rounds are deadly.... I took down a doe at 30 yards w/ my Ruger 57 using this round!! Thanks for the video it was one of the reasons I chose this round to hunt with.
Nice! Where was shot placement?
I shot her in the heart. I installed a vortex venom red dot and it has made my gun and this round even more enjoyable.
These things are STILL not "officially" released.
I wish they would get it together.
Not even on their website
@@bryanmartinez6600 Brownells just had a bunch of it.
I finally got a box, but I had to pay $60.
It seems a little better than the V-Max FN ammo, but it's not on par with BFD or SS198LF
Great impression.
Man I don’t know, those 40 grain American Eagle shoot great out of my 16in PS90.
They work good in my P90 SBR as well.
Loved the Randy Savage!
Great video
I’d really like to see the windshield glass test
The only thing I’d add would be windshield sim and interior barrier pen à la sage dynamics Speer gold dot testing video in 9mm
This has definitely changed my mind a bit on the caliber and especially this loading with the metal and armor test
Honestly the bare gel test is a little underwhelming but can’t really do much with 5.7
I just expected it to mayyybe be loaded a little hotter for being a 40 grain I’d have liked to see it towards the mid 1800 FPS range
Bare in mind that commercial loaders in US have been dialing back these loads to likely fall under the radar, after the Brady Bunch Crap. Do you have a link to this test?
The Speer 5.7 is a "I'm at the gun store and I bought this gun, I need SD ammo, but know nothing about the ammo, what can I buy?". Does it perform, sure, but there are better loads available that outperform it. Really wish larger place would make these solid copper loads like eA T6B or Black Dragon Fang.
Buffman - R.A.N.G.E. It’s his gen 2 gold dot test just in case RUclips decides to crap out on the link
ruclips.net/video/9-q_y3UyXw4/видео.html
Brady bunch crap? Bring me up to speed I pretty much live under a rock I’m not gonna lie
@@MyLonewolf25 Years ago Brady Bunch said "OMG Five-SevenN cop Killer, ban it". SO FN had a test performed to show that SS196/7 would not penetrate IIIA armor, and that SS192 that could wasn't offered to civilians.
AE TMJ will penetrate IIIA at higher speeds, and you'll note from my testing it's capped around 1650 fps.
So it's interesting that the Gold dot can :D
Great Video On Why You Should Never Buy A PS90
They run best with the 28gr load. But yeah the CMMG is more reliable.
Great info. Well done
Glad you enjoyed it
Disappointed with regards to PS90 reliability.
@@nonyabidness7260 I meant with regards to the Gold Dot ammo in the PS90.
best 5.7 ammo 40 gr gold dot
It was with this design. With the revised design, it's not better than the 40gr VMAX.
@@BuffRANGE ooh I haven't see the 40gr hornady v-max video.
@@brikeswardebbarma4029 This is an ideal vmax velocity for the 5.7. It could be better but this provides us with more penetration: ruclips.net/video/p9Fw0i6Iabo/видео.html
Crazy stuff. Interesting that the shortest barrel (ruger) had the deepest penetration in every test.
Likely the velocity kept it from expanding
Too much.
Chrono hit my favorite year 1999 lol
Once I get a 57 I think I will be running the black fang because of your recommendations but this round seems to have potential as well. You mentioned the R37x at the end do you think the R&R round is more effective than the Speer?
It could be a toss up. I want to re-test the R37X and see how it does in the P90, and possible see if that extra velocity would help it penetrate the Hybrid IIIA. The expansion diameter of the R37X is over 1/2" from the pistol :D
Actually nvm my r&r u told me to get is way better and for the price ism I like the r&r u told me to get
Those eyebrows are pretty buff!
Underwood’s 9mm Extreme Defender 65 grain chronographs at ~1800 fps from a 5” barrel and the Underwood .357 Sig 65 grain Extreme Defender averages ~2100 fps! So, greater velocity, larger diameter and a heavier projectile with the Underwood ammo. FWIW.
Larger diameter projectile potentially means less ability to penetrate armor depending on type.
Also less ballistic coefficient equaling less effective range. Not to mention it's a hollow point and could lead to less than optimal penetration. Will have to look for some vids on that one.
Thanks for your video. Was just about to pull the trigger on a PS-90 purchase. Now a no go due to the malfunctions with heaver ammo.
The PS90 systems favors the lighter grain bullets.
Lighter 27gr gives better performance. Suit yourself. No issues with mine.
Wow that round really penetrates a little too much for my taste. I was so looking to getting a box bbn or two of this round, with what I saw in this video it's off my bucket list damn damn damn
it's a shame that such a space-age looking handgun is largely useless to the civilian market. damn shame
Hopefully, Speer will offer these as a reloading component, I would love to try these in my 22 TCM and 22 Hornet.
Is the bullet profile short enough to make it in the 22 TCM?
@@BuffRANGE Honestly, I don't know, but if it doesn't work I can still use them in my 22 Hornet.
Yeah, Speer manufactures the bullet but it's loaded by Fiocchi. Kinda like you can buy Hornady V-Max branded ammo loaded by HSM or whoever else.
Indeed
Wow $80 per box 2 years ago?
I thought I bent over today picking up at $60 a box, but they really gouged him!
Yep. Early bird sometimes pays the premium.
No wayyyyy they brought them out!?!?!!!!!!!
Excellent production values on this video. Very comprehensive. If you have it, I would love to see your testing of the PSA Rock 57.
I'm basically finished with the Rock testing. 800+ rounds and far superior to the Ruger IMO :D I need to get a review together
That being said what is your benchmark for superiority? Every test I’ve seen you perform the ruger is putting the cmmg, p90, and the original 5.7 to shame im not trolling I’m just curious are you dinging the ruger for over penetration?
Great video very informal thank you.