Why King Crimson is More BROKEN Than You Thought | Jojo's Bizarre Adventure
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
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Finally, someone who actually understands king crimson and doesn't just say "it's like a video editor"
Yes
It’s more like a yt video in the way that you can skip 5 seconds
FR
Fact
Ladngo
Epitaph is not doppio's stand because Doppio and Diavolo got separated and Diavolo was still able to use it :D
Yeah that’s what I’m thinking. Love your vids btw :)
No it is it’s just they are the same person so they can use each other’s stands but Doppio doesn’t know he’s 2 people so he has to ask permission from Diavalo, who does know he’s 2 people, to use King Crimson.
@@chrono9503 The way it's written they are two different souls and not that same person. Uber DID
It could still be that the Epitaph part of King Crimson comes from Doppio, but that Diavolo is able to use both parts (because he is the more protective and dominant personality). Thematically it would match with the rest of Doppio’s/Diavolo’s duality.
In that case, Doppio’s contribution to the Stand would be interdependent on Diavolo’s contribution. Being able to see the future does you little good if you can’t change it, and being able to change the future does you little good if you can’t see how it changes. It captures how the two different parts function best as one.
@@jacobgaskins8756 yet it's shown that you just need to possess the body to use the stand, which DIO showed by using Johnathan's stand near the start of part 3
I think the easiest explanation is that sometimes King Crimson can just use The World.
Honestly not a bad explanation 🤣
Lol, another stand with the same type as Star Platinum :P
So.... We having same stand types? (KC walks in time stop alongside SP)
Yep, not to mention that KC had the similar stat of class except range ig
The logic behind this could be that it's a stand that's short ranged and but is really powerful. So it's the same stand as Star Platinum and the world.
I don’t think KC can be described as a “time” stand. It’s described that way but “skipping time” is kind of disingenuous given what he can do with it. A better description is that for a brief periods he removes himself from fate, disrupting the chain of causality. This is why in the fight against Risotto the bullets phased through him
I agree, exactly...
I would say it depends from which PoV you view it. Time Skip is how those outside experience the ability. While Erasure is more the effect it has on erasing their memories and perception of/during the erased portion that Diavolo erases when he uses the ability, including erasing himself from a particular portion of projected fate. But he does not always have to erase himself from this and can instead use it only as a warning for what is coming as he does near the end when he is running away.
However, I mostly call it a "fate manipulation" (and Time Erasure as one of its effects) Stand because it basically enables Diavolo to briefly override his fate by erasing himself from it physically.
But after the ability, his hypothetical actions remain since they bring about the fate of the target that Epitaph shows (Narancia dying, Trish's hand). Furthermore, it seems that when Diavolo overrides his fate and does not do some action, it is basically as if he did not do that action, so a hypothetical reaction to this action will not happen either and will be erased together with his unrealised action, except for Diavolo's result that this action would bring onto the target of Epitaph. This would be a possible way to explain why Bruno or the gang do not seem to react in any way to Diavolo "doing something" (but actually not doing), instead being as if nothing happens after the ability ends - because since this was erased, their reaction during it was too together with it as this reaction is directly built upon this already erased action of Diavolo.
Naturally, this would logically mean that in some ways, fate adjusts itself around Diavolo when he does this - if he was fated to die and then changes his fate so he doesn't, there should be some adjustment from fate in terms of Diavolo and his effects around. But Diavolo is still slave to fate in that he cannot control Epitaph's predictions and can misunderstand them and that outside of the ability he is still basically subject to fate. He actually even is a strong believer in fate and that it guides him, so it might be why he has such an ability in the first place, the ability to cheat fate for brief periods (or at least so it would seem to Diavolo, if it was still fate anyway for him to use the ability when he does, does not really change it, because they do not know this).
And since Araki is a not a cynic and wants to give hope to readers, and he loves irony, he makes it so that fate eventually chooses the acts rightfulness and good that it either brings forth or likely that can in some ways shape fate as per Araki's message, which could be that because Diavolo is able to cheat fate for brief moments, Giorno's GER is this self-correcting force of fate against him that eventually catches up to him.
Its a fate stand which is connected to gravity, which is connected to time. That is also why Pucci was able to move in timestop with C-moon
It is time erasure that's why no one but Diavolo remembers the erased time but that does allow Diavolo to "leap past fate" as Diavolo himself puts it.
If I am not wrong. Diavolo's prediction of him killing Giorno is correct, but GER prevented it by putting him in the infinite death. So Giorno was fated to die from Diavolo, but GER used his RTZ and Infinite death to make sure that the event of him dying would never happen. Idk if it is correct tho
Kinda make sense tho
Bro infinite death is not a even something he can use offensively infinite death is just a side affect of killing something, infinite death only happens because ger resets their deaths giving it the illusion they are infinitely dying so NO infinite death is not a part of ger's arsenal its just a side affect
, GER makes it so the truth is never reached so the truth of fate of him being dead will never come
So... Giorno is immortal?@@thespeedingturtle
King crimson is my favorite stand because of his owner and his abilities are really really cool ☺️
Definitely my favourite stand too - its abilities are amazing and I also think the design is really fun. Diavolo’s really interesting as well!
Probably one of my most favorite stand right next to Star Platinum and Golden Experience Requiem
Still, im dont understand, why KC cant attack in TS
@@Stalker_Monkee he is intangible in erased time
@@Sheengodzilla wait, but he still can interact with objects, world itself in TS, so he could terminate his targets, with objects, but not his body? Or its not works, due to its brokeness?
9:31 - Exactly, Araki at least should have shown Bruno changing his position in elevator.
Yeah that would’ve made more sense imo. You could make the same argument for the rest of Passione during Narancia’s death scene
Maybe he just ended up in the exact same spot somehow or never moved in the first place.
Hate to be that guy but
"Araki forgot"
@@Cap_Briggsy but don't you know? araki NEVER forgot anything!
seriously, since the videos of hamon beat, every mistake araki makes is defended to the death
One of my favorite thought experiments was a Jotaro vs Diavolo fight, at first I thought it'd be balanced with Jotaro's time stop and all, but then I realized that since stopped time takes place in literally no time, King Crimson can completely skip Jotaro's time stop with the full rest of it to spare.
this is something people seem to forget everytime this fight is mentioned. everything jotaro/dio would do in stopped time will just be erased. they could stop time for an hour and nothing would change.
@@Dr.AvenVon EXACTLY, because a time stop is an infinitely short period of time...Diavolo could just use KC and easily skip it!
But how would he know when time stop is going to occur, or if he's being affected by time stop? As we can see with the Kakyoin v Dio scene, people have no idea when time stop happens other than when it's called out. In fact, Jotaro wasn't even able to detect time stop as an ability until he knew it was a possiblity, meaning under no circumstances should Diavolo ever be able to figure out that time has been stopped. Diavolo would just have to make guesses on when the ability was going to be used.
@@CameronE.128 The whole point of epitaph is to see the fated future and help know when to use kc to avoid it. Even if diavolo cant see what happens in TW time stop and only sees teleportation and/or an instant attack in the future prediction by epitaph he WILL skip time just to be safe. I'm sure he's that paranoid and he'll probably be able to figure out some time shenanigans are going on.
@@CameronE.128 diavolo can look into the future. easy as that
You mentioned not knowing why King Crimson spams epitaph. Well, it may be that Diavolo is afraid of seeing a future prediction that ends with his death since Doppio still took damage from fated actions. I do see a counter in that Diavolo kept using this ability against Giorno so it may not be in his character to be afraid to use epitaph.
He can “erase” his fate
It's interesting cause despite it being so broken there's still ways to get around as shown by Polnareff who was able to hurt Diavolo pretty badly in the arm, as in Diavolo's own words, a little more and he would've been able to take him down
True, but at the same time Diavolo wasn’t fatally wounded, and he was able to adapt pretty immediately. Super impressive feat against one of the faster Stands we’ve seen
@@Kuro4
I’ve maintained the belief that, alongside Diego Brando, Diavolo is one of the smartest stand users we’ve seen, just from how fast he was able to nullify the only counter Polnareff could think of after YEARS.
yeah, and then he outsmarted palnareef and killed his ass
The only thing that'd make King Crimson even more OP would be if it skipped time backward instead of forward. Great Stand, my personal favorite along with D4C. Although the way GER was implemented into the story was ass. By the way, you're objectively correct about Diavolo's own actions also being something Epitaph can forecast. When he uses his final prediction on GER, he sees King Crimson rip out Giorno's heart. Although it never happens because GER prevented it from taking place, had it been allowed to, it absolutely would have.
On, and on the subject of erasing time vs. stopping time, Diavolo can still use Epitaph even while time is erased, so he can adjust his actions while being intangible before his enemy has the chance to stop time. Although this applies less to time stop in general, and more specifically to a DIO vs. Diavolo fight where he should have gone for the head. If Jotaro eats a donut, it's GG.
And on a final note, what would happen if Diavolo activated King Crimson just as Bites the Dust was about to kill him? Would he still explode? Would he be affected by the reset, or would he somehow find himself an hour ahead of the rest of the world, or just booted out of time and space entirely? Does this scenario take place in one of his infinite deaths?
Yeah I also thought GER was handled a bit strangely. The concept was introduced early enough that I don’t think it’s a complete asspull, but I would’ve liked a more interesting fight than Giorno just overriding King Crimson entirely.
I tried pitting King Crimson against other stands in my head for the purposes of this video and honestly it gets so confusing lol. Guess there’s a reason why the main antagonists never fight each other. I think Diavolo could defeat Jotaro and Dio depending on how fast their reaction times are, and the Bites the Dust scenario is really interesting but ofc it wouldn’t happen in an actual fight. Still really cool how Stands can interact with each other in such unique ways.
The time erasure vs Bites The Dust is pretty interesting. I think BTD would activate and the reset would happen, but Diavolo won't explode. Diavolo would go back in time and forget everything like everyone else, but once the time comes he would not explode because the explosion is fate from previous loop repeating itself, and Diavolo erased himself from fate thus changing his fate in the new timeline as well.
Coincidentally, if Diavolo were to not use KC and instead exploded in the first timeline, he could still use KC in the second timeline to evade the explosion if he times it correctly. After all, BTD fates you to explode but KC can escape his own fate.
@@Kuro4 In straight abilities alone erasure completely counters. Diavolo can erase fractions of seconds which the erasure of a infinitely small fraction of a second is all that would be needed to counter the stop, in turn saving hella stamina. Of course skipping a fraction might not confused the average user but in stopped time seconds pass relative to the user, so on first witnessing of the override Jotaro or Dio would probably be just as confused as anyone else would be. It would be hard for either to really dodge an attack especially Jotaro with just normal human stamina (which all him being exhausted all his stamina in the stopped time as a sleeping slave). Not to mention that although Diavolo can't attack in erasure, he can wind up an attack to where it hits as soon as the ability is deactivated (one of the few methods he uses to get around the intangibility you mentioned). Granted I'll admit through out the story that method isn't solid like the moment Bruno rises to the 1st floor. Maybe Diavolo underestimated his speed due to his injuries? idk. I serious think Diavolo is just kinda playing around in those moments and being a little stupid with the ego bit, like monolouging during Brunos initial confusion to the ability right before the donut as it wasn't in erasure and he was then susceptible to damage. I think a lot of the problems he faced with his goals were plagued by that type of stuff especially ego. Put a person with a lesser I guess "flexing or playing around with enemies" mentality the gang wouldn't have really stood a chance unless they were glued to one another as groups are another one of the short comings that other time abilities like time stop doesn't face.
@@Kuro4 GER's base speed is definitely MUCH faster then the world/star platinum. it literally flicked a little stone and that raw speed turned it into pure blast of energy.
Over this massive speed feat, KC would've donutted GER if it were not for GER's result erasure.
So Diavolo wipes the floor with almost ANY stand user from the original timeline (part 3-6) except GER giorno and MiH pucci, and these 2 have evolved stands unlike Diavolo. KC is the strongest unevolved stand from the original timeline, and 3rd if u wanna include part 7 and 8
@@Kuro4 fax. I do believe diavolo could beat dio and jotaro and i also believe kc>tw/sp
Hamon Beat actually have a video about how Diavolo not only erases time but the fate of himself. While everyone is locked to their fate Diavolo can roam freely which just makes him soo op, both time and fate in one stand is insane
Not time, but rather memory. He only erases the perception of time, making it seem like time was erased, but in reality it’s more like everyone carries out their fated movements with a blindfold on. The flow of time is actually unaltered.
@@dripg0djv280erasing only memory does not make diavolo intangible, there clearly is a time or fate aspect to it in order to make it as such
@@Yesbutactuallyno123 you are partially correct. He erases himself from the time stream, making him intangible. He doesn’t however erase time itself, and fate is unaltered. Just HIS fate is changed
@@dripg0djv280 no, he DOES erase time. why do people argue agains that? It is shown to be that case in the manga/anime, this is how araki wrote him, and he hasn't changed that. why do people think it is something different?
@@Dr.AvenVon he doesn’t because if he erased time, then how do the events following the time erase occur? Everything that happened in time erase still happened. Evidence is that the results remain. It’s just that now one was aware during that period
epitaph's predictions were never wrong. Even in the fight with giorno and ger, his predictions were not wrong. It was fated for diavolo to rip out giorno's heart, but thanks to return to zero, the original fated path of reality (diavolo getting his ass kicked) was the one that took place. When king crimson skips time, he essencially changes fate. Sure, anything that happens to others happens when time is skipping, but not for diavolo. anything fated to happen to diavolo does NOT happen. so when diavolo skipped time, it was fated that diavolo was gonna rip out giornos heart. since rtz NEGATED timeskip, the fated path of giorno's heart getting ripped out never came to pass. In other words, it WOULD have happened had giorno not use rtz. his prediction was correct, but it never came to pass. just imagine that you predict that ten seconds from now, you will take 1 step forward. This prediction, under NO surcomstances is incorrect. this WILL happen 10 seconds from now. Now imagine someone has the ability to make it so that you take one step forward infinity seconds from now. Yeah it will happen, just infinite seconds from now.
yes; people like to overhype GER into being this fucking unstoppable infinite death killer able to surpass D4C or TA4 (which is just retarded), but the truth is the POWERUP gold experience received was extremely contextual into beating diavolo specifically. oh you can manipulate fate? GER essentially negates it with RTZ. oh, but my death is fated beyond all measure to happen by your hand? well, infinite death regression for eternity. its like, the stand is super powerful but it is a deliberately convenient counter to KC because it had to be
Long story short
If that you count to 9 but always get reseted to 1
You will never reach 10
There is another plausible explanation, KC is incredibly fast, probably around light speed, and sound travels at Mach one, so it could have broken the elevator and chopped off Trish’s hand then time skip before the sound could reach Bruno’s ears, both theory’s would work though
just like literally this? a stand with stupid powers could just smash narancia through the spikes, king crimson has been shown to be almost as fast as silver chariot so its pretty fast, buccarati is also stuck talking at the door when time is skipped, the lady had her eyes CLOSED right after the hotel time skip so he obviously just swiped the papers off during that. Idk they just dont do a great job showing that he's faster than most of the stands in Part 5 except silver chariot
The problem with this is that it determines that bruno/sticky fingers is just way way slower than diavolo/king crimson, but he's not. bucciarati banked on his speed and intellect to do any damage against diavolo and escape
Maybe it was like josukes mom, but that would imply seasoned veteran bucciarati is as slow to react as a civilian single mom
If king crimson were the antagonist of any other jojo part he would’ve won
Not really
@@hyperman581 who could’ve beaten him? He’s that guy
@@hyperman581 only close fight would be jotaro. And even he would lose
@@ctts9946 It's the same type of stand as Star Platinum
Not in part 8
Finally someone realizing how broken king crimson and epitaph were, that's why... My fav. stand
i knew king crimsion was broken, but I didn't know it was this fucking broken💀
I think this is best explained when we see him see king crimson kill giorno with ger (while not knowing its abilities.) the only thing he did know was that ger was massively stronger than king crimson physically, yet epitaph's predictions always happen since they are fated, so this shows such ability and that diavolo is fully aware that he can take advantage of it, and he was going to
(until of course, G.E.R)
most underrated youtuber, fr fr
Thank you!! Glad you enjoyed
This one is broken af abillity, sadly, in the end he clapped by requiem that more broken than this one. I like how the creator of this series gives some "time manipulation" almost in all series. Thats dope!!
Made heaven is powerful
Based
I think the best way to explain the elevator scene is similar to how, with Bites the Dust, even after the day was reset, Rohan was still blown up because it had already happened. Epitaph is similar, in that it doesn't matter how, it's still going to happen, regardless of whether or not there would be actual cause - the result, as you said, still remains.
Great job on your explanation. I completely! While the stand is confusing, a lot of the hype of it isn’t as warranted. It think it is pretty clearer on how it works.
It stated that people are faded to their actions. It’s more than him giving a water bottle and forgetting doing it, it’s the fact that he even give it in the first place if someone is faded to die, or fight, they will, and won’t remember.
An ability to entered time erasure dimension and able to see 10 second ahead
4:55 this future wasn't outclassed or wrong. This future was 100% absolute but GER just made that they never arrived at the "future". Diavolo's fate just ended before they arrived at the future. This sentence doesn't make sense but that's why I like part 5 stands, you need to think!
Yea honestly arataki should have focussed on diavolo's monologue. What cld have been done differently is diavolo self monologuing on how he needs to get into a certain position in time and space that grants him the fate he wants, hence leading him to do certain actions
Like the morty crystal in rick and morty, he sees that particular future remaining and hence follows through with his action(they did kinda show it at the end) but imo it should have been revealed in his self reflection,
eg. Maybe he self reflects on what he did in the elevator to assure himself he will win. It seems in-character and also explains away the confusion
Thank you for actually including specific part spoiler alerts
King Crimson explained in 4 sentences:
Epitath can see 10 sec into the future and all it sees is gonna happen no matter what, just like Tohth.
King Crimson makes everyone a sleeping slave of that fate but frees Diavolo from his fate.
This is why if someone is shown to die in a prediction they still die even if Diavolo doesn't kill them, since only Diavolo's fate was changed only he can stray from the predictions, others still have to follow.
And because King Crimson only lets Diavolo change his own fate but not others, Diavolo can't interact with anything else during this time, as other things still have to follow their own fate and Diavolo interacting would change their fate.
Also, i didnt heard anyone complain about it but this "gravity" like. ability occurs, and we can see it, when diavolo is introduced, he skips time, says some things there, and takes his shirt off. He also knows that Polnareff can't hear him, so my guess is that he was destined to say all of those things and take his shirt off becoming Diavolo, but he skipped time to make it more confusing
King Crimson > Wonder of U > Made in Heaven > The World, clearly. Anyone who think Made In Heaven is stronger than King Crimson is not understanding King Crimson.
I don't think Diavolo could hurt Tooru, but he could run from Wonder of U and escape its ability.
But Made in heaven is so fast after Time Erase he would probably dodge most of the time, he is just too fast
It takes time for Made in Heaven to go too fast. And even without this argument, King Crimson is really really fast : don't forget the fight vs Pollnarref
Doppio has access to a part of KC because him and Diavolo r in the same body like Dio had Jonathans stand aswell as the world jonathans stand is basically another version of hermit purple you can see it in the part of Dio when he puts the brain bug in Polneraff
The fact is diavolo says "this world" in jojos world defined as the universe
Great video, I think it's a very powerful stand without question. It would be interesting to see your opinion on which Jojo antagonist is the most powerful. In my opinion Ultimate Kars is underappreciated as an overpowered enemy, I don't see any other antagonist besides Funny Valentine being able to defeat him
It's possible to beat King Crimson without Fate related powers; the trick is positional coverage and good teamwork. Example would be: Buch Close Quarters, Giorno & Trish Mid-guard, Mister rearguard, and Narrancha calvary, Abbachio remote position commander. Buch would engage Diavolo force him to retialiate or attempt fleeing, in the case of fleeing Mister can force King Crimson's power out however Abbavchio's role would allow him to monitor any temporal shifts, find his new location, and spot for Narrancha to finish him off while KC is on cooldown. In the case of fighting back Buch will maintain engagement going for the kill, Giorno and Trish rotate monitoring each other and Mister to prevent KC from repositioning via timeskip, should it occur then the mid-guard will prevent the lethal blow and permit counter attack for the kill by the defended member. If this doesn't result in an outright kill at least wounds will stack up from enough of these encounters that KC will lose.
The trickiest part throughout such a battle is:
1) Getting Diavalo onto an open yet isolated field for such visibility and positioning
2) Maintaining the Focus necessary for reacting to sudden repositions
KC still wins if he manages to acquire interference from outsiders or party members lose focus and he breaks the formation through a single kill; opening up a party wipe or line of retreat for KC. Including more members risks the lacking coordination between party members leading to the previously mentioned issue so it's necessary a small elite unit to dispatch him. Regardless, the battle will be epic!
Scenes like these, that create plot holes in the stand power, are quite common to show how badass a villain is, it is like the who shoot johnny scene, nobody understands, but everybody had chills reading it
I once had a understanding of king crimson; until diavolo skipped over the time I was gonna write it down
Beautifully explained
Koichi >> diavolo
Good video my guy I enjoyed it. ^thats definitely a joke btw koichi sucks ahahahah.
Thanks! And nah I think you might be onto something there…
I like koichi 😅
I agree to absolutely everything explained in this video apart from the point that stated Epitaph was solely Doppio's stand. Its finally relieving to see someone who actually pays attention to the details and not apply "powerscaling logic" to it.
I also do agree with the part that KC could skip thru time-stop; for ex, if the next 10 seconds were to be skipped over and it happened that there was a time-stop initiated in-between those seconds, its definitive that everything which happened within time-stop would be skipped over too. But this can't be said for the opposite situation, since its impossible for Diavolo to activate KC within stopped time. Making the fight entirely dependent on who activates their ability first.
But I don't think Epitaph could predict a time-stop since in its P.O.V., DIO or Jotaro and the things they are interacting with would seem as if they're teleporting randomly.
6:50
Only the center of your vision possesses enough photoreceptors to discern fine detail
The return of the king 👑
Haha thank you! ❤️❤️
This video is way too high quality for it to have so little views!
THE 2 THINGS I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS WHEN THE BULLETS WENT THROUGH HIS BODY IN THE METALLICA FIGHT AND WHEN HE THREW THE BLOOD IN GIORNO'S EYES.
#wakandaforever trailer and this video are the two best uploads to RUclips this weekend.
Best compliment ever 🤣🤣
I'm pretty sure king crimson is almost as fast as the world in terms of punching. the world has a speed stat of A and so does king crimson making them a similar speed. i do think that king crimson is slower but not as much as you said. in my personal opinion i think king crimson is the 3rd most powerful stand in the entire show as he could destroy every single stand an stand user except giorno with ger and DIO with twoh (twoh is debatable he might be able to defeat twoh if he hits dios head perfectly the millisecond after time erase). i mean think about it, lets say any stand user decides to attack him. he uses epitaph to see 10 seconds into the future. he sees him self on the verge of death. uses time erase. walks up behind them and throws his attack just before time erase ends so the very first possible second he can attack he does. he then wins. this works on any stand even stands like cheap trick. say cheap trick attached itself to diavolo. diavolo uses epitaph. sees that cheap trick will kill him in ten seconds when someone looks at his back. does time erase. im pretty sure if diavolo didn't do time erase he would attack cheap trick which means cheap trick is fated to be attacked but when this happens diavolo has used time erase making him invulnerable and take no damage so that when time erase ends hes fine and cheap trick is dead. its truly invincible he could defeat anyone, even jotaro and dio ( not heaven ascended dio) wouldn't stand a chance. diavolo uses epitaph, sees himself beat up so he uses time erase. jotaro/dio then does time stop and attacks where they were fated to attack. time stop ends and diavolos time erase is still going since time was stopped and paused his ability( I don't think this would stop his ability from working as no other method in the show did stop it from working but it may making timestop the only way to beat diavolo other than ger). he goes behind them and impales them (this obviously wouldn't kill dio but I'm assuming in diavolos next attack he will learn and go for the head).
Time stop will never happen as he’ll just erase the second time stop happened
@@okkkokkk762 exactly. KC is truly overpowered
@@okkkokkk762 probably why ger was so broken. I just hate the one sided beatdown so much. It felt so anticlimactic. I still wish the final battle was similar to part 3 or 7. I felt myself climbing and climbing just to have it end . Then the random rolling stone in the end 🤦🏿♂️
@@ctts9946 bruh if jotaro came he would of been one shotted and diavolo was so broken they had to bring ger
i sort of believe that Diavolo can Time skip without even himself being Conscious, and that epitaph is the sub ability that allows him to peer into his own domain or "court" of skipped tme
Nah diavolo erases time not skip hence bullets going through him either his fight against risotto and his official power is time erasure while the character itself and the author both state time erasure
I think Diavolo vs Dio all comes down to who uses their ability first. If Diavolo activates King Crimson, he's just invincible regardless of what happened in stopped time, and then he can just one-shot Dio from behind. If The World stops time before Diavolo can even register what's happening in Epitaph's vision, we get another 20 meter radius situation.
Diavolo always wins because he can see the future,if he sees himself getting hurt after dio stops time.He will just erase that time before dio stops time
@@Eulogy1613 That's kind of what I'm saying. He has to activate the time skip before Dio can stop time. If time is stopped before King Crimson is activated, there's nothing he can do.
@@KinamOfMyth you're right but the thing is that Diavolo will always stop time first because even if dio stops time first,he will just see it from epitaph and erase time before dio stops it
I have the same opinion about KC vs time stop. Especially how in comparison to another human like Jotaro, Diavolo seems to not have his stamina drained by using his ability, it is double the duration of a humans time stop, and with epitaph he has a good idea of when to use time erasure. However if he fights DIO I just see Diavolo loosing due to DIO being a vampire, but in terms of just the ability itself I view time erasure as superior.
Bingo
Diavolo can erease and see 10 seconds, even the 9 seconds of time stop of Dio are not sufficient, and in Parte Six we saw that stand that can manipulate time can interact or move in the time stop, so Diavolo can defeat Dio, Jotaro, Pucci (erasing their stand abilities) or D4C attacking him before the dimension Wall or predicting the attack of D4C, even Tusk4 lose with Diavolo because King Crimson can erase the Moment when diavolo got hitted Just like did with Narancia stand or Sex Pistols, the only stands can defead King Crimson actually are : Wonders of U (that's will be like Final Destination 😂) , GER and Soft and Wet Go Beyond
I wonder does KC can spam the ability for time erase, or it's has a limit like Star Platinum
kc beats dio in ts even with him being vamp
@@stanconato5047 C-Moon can move in TS because C-Moon straight up manipulates gravity, and gravity and time are proportional. I think DIO (because he's my favorite character after Joseph) vs Diavolo would play out like this:
Diavolo erases time, DIO stops time. Diavolo sees DIO do whatever DIO wanted to do during TS within a fraction of a millisecond and gets confused, but positions himself to hit DIO after Time Erase ends. Diavolo donuts DIO, DIO uses his insane battle IQ to hold Diavolo in place and stop time and caps the spaghetti haired mafia boss.
Jotaro gets annihilated though let's be real
6:18 I love when there are JoJo references in JoJo
In the elevator scene, the reason why he is able to assassinate Trish like he does is because it is fated to happen that he will attack her and drag her away. Him skipping time does not change Trish’s fate, so she is still attacked and moved.
Kingcrimson can't be defeated unless the standuser fighting him can exploit his weakness, or simply their ability can counter time erasure. There actually another way to know when time skipped, which excludes the bloodtrick or wrist watch.
Time erasure is an ability whose use is for diavolo to leapt past fate, it is essentially a defensive ability. What does this mean? It means you can technically counter time erasure, by baiting diavolo in to skipping time. How? Simply attack him. If a stand has offensive capabilities enough to harm diavolo, by intentionally attacking him, you are basically forcing diavolo to erase time, like he always would do when being attacked. And because you know time will skip the moment you try to attack him, you can react to the result of the skip much faster. This strategy actually works. Bruno once intentionally tricked diavolo to erase time, by doing a zipper punch on him. Diavolo erased time, then tried to attack bruno, but bruno escaped with his zippers. He managed to escape, becquse he EXPECTED the skip. This trick can be used to evade and counter attack diavolo when he tries to fist you right after a skip.
This strategy works effectively and is quite easy to think of once you learn KC's abilities . The only reason i think this trick was never used again is because Araki didn't want to reduce the hype of this new villain he introduced, and want to add more drama to the story. This shows that king crimson's greatest weaknesses is that his ability is very predictable, and that diavolo can't attack in erased time.
However, because king crimson is very physically powerful, both in strength and speed. It still takes stands that could physically match up to kingcrimson or stands who have more busted abilities to defeat him. Which makes him one of the most impressive stands of JoJo's bizarre adventures.
It kinda reminds me of a Golden Wind fan ending. When Giorno shoots the scorpion rock at Diavolo, Dio is somehow summoned through the life energy and he donuts Diavolo and says "You know, when all you do is follow fate, you become quite predictable."
even poly figured this out, when he cut diavs arm. striking where he will be after the skip.
This becomes hard to do if he erases less than a second. Because then when you are trying to predict him & hey you might actually be right with that predict. But a less than a second gap is to short to react to right after having amnesia from his ability. And being tunneled vision on one thought w/ Diavolo as an opponent is bad. Yes Bruno(& Polnereff w/ being idle)were successful in countering but that took some getting used to; And getting used to Diavolo means getting killed or crippled mid fight ie. Bruno's stomach & torso, Polnereff's Legs & Eye, & Giorno's Skull & Right Arm. Polnereff got lucky all those years ago, Bruno had G.E's energy and Giorno only lived & healed due to G.E.R being born; everyone else kinda just died. Finding a weakness doesn't mean it would be easy to exploit it even if that weakness was well know, I mean Superman's most well known weakness is Kryptonite right?; And sometimes he just doesn't care lmao, Diavolo might be the same people knowing his weakness & him still not caring because if he has experience w/ those who tried that shit before or if he just flat out sees himself winning why would he care lol. But yeah that lack of care is why he lost against Giorno in the end but it wasnt really his fault; G.E.R was literally born to be a counter to King Crimson and ended up being the Debated Strongest of them all.
Time skip is spammable, not only you become untouchable, gravity doesn't affect you, you also can see the future any time you want, your stand is faster than silver chariot which means he is faster than star platinum too, same raw strength as star platinum, not the same durability, you know why? Cuz he wont get freaking hit, bro could bully people and just punch and skip time, repeat, even if someone notices the time skip he could still time skip again and make them more confused, and he could just spam it and wait for the exact moment to attack, if he fails and the opponent retaliates he can literally time skip again and the opponent will be vulnerable, also counters timestop since diavolo ceases to exist, and everyone during timeskip is nothing but an hologram created by epitaph, such as why you cant see the ground and gravity ceases to work and no one can be touched, therefore even if someone tried to timestop, not only they would timestop but diavolo wouldn't really be there, he wouldn't exist in that time, two things could happen, either the guy time stops and king crimson time erases before they time stop (because he can see when they will timestop) and the enemy wont even see his timestop during it since it would be skipped
Situation example:
"ZA WARUDO"
*nothing happens*
"Wtf id swear i time stopped"
Or timestop might actually stop the effect of skipping time, but diavolo would still be out of the equation, like if he wasn't there in the first place.
@@passingbycommentornah diavolo beats jotaro but loses to dio because he’s a vampire unless diavolo goes for the headshot first
4:54 i wouldnt say ger ouclassing diavlos stand persay is what overrules it more so it just puts an infinite number of delays between them. diavalo isnt technically dead hes just in a death loop. hes technically fated to do that to giorno eventually (possibly(part6spoilers)in the part 6 timeline that was sped through before the new one) its just an inifnite number of events must occur first.
In jojo fate is a gravitational force that’s the easiest way to define a lot of the hard to understand situations
cool video, not that into jojos but this was an interesting watch !
Thanks! What series are you more into?
@@Kuro4 hunter x hunter mostly! i'm also really fond of parasyte
@@jxy3 ooh cool! I’ll definitely have a new HxH vid out soon. Also gotta watch Parasyte already lol
Opinion on "golden wind overrides Diabolo". I don't think he was overwriting it but using his ability to cast a judgement on someone found a loophole. Diabolos crimes are mostly ties to repetition and that things so not change to keep himself in power. So golden winds judgement is that Diabolo will be stuck in a loophole. His future is still fixed but he will never be able to reach it due to the loop
The main reason I think he doesn’t spam this ability Is it is either better used for stealth and if a person already knows he’s there he might as well attack them ensuring a kill or maybe this ability takes time to set up
My theory on Diavolo is that he uses fate to carry out stuff like grabbing Trish or killing Narancia. So very similar to the thoughts in this vid
i found a video that uses waffle falling video to explain king crimson and i actually understood everything
LOL that sounds hilarious
Can't diavolo just put his arm through someone in time erase and then insta donut them
bros thinking in 6 dimensions.
but honestly i dont think it'll work like that, it'll prolly just end up fusing his arm through whatever he put it through since theres no kinetic exchange.
@@themarshian5124 It might donut someone, there is no transfer of kinetic energy, but matter is being displaced by more matter, think about it like putting your finger in a glass of water, the water level rises because it's being displaced.
I totally agree with everything that is said in the video apart from one part. I feel like when diavolo killed narancia it was because silver chariot requiem made all of the stands stronger like when it superpowered areosmith and 6 pistols.
I think one important thing to point out is that Epithats predictions were never wrong. Even in the fight against Giorno, Epithats prediction of Diavolo destroying Giorno wasn't wrong, it was indeed what was faded to happen. GER simply overwrote the fate with his own "returning to 0" ability. This is why he says "you will never reach the truth". What Diavolo saw was indeed the truth, but GERs ability prevents him from ever reaching it.
As for King Crimson, well, I mean the whole concept of the stand arrow piercing someone for a 2nd time and granting them a Requiem stand was introduced solely in order to get an ability capable of defeating him. And the only two Stands who had any form of chance against him were an incomplete Requiem stand with an interdimentional soul swapping ability and the most broken Stand ever created.
If we think of time and fate as dimensions, one interpretation is that King Crimson can create a discontinuity in time while keeping fate intact, whereas The World-type stands can only stop themselves (and their users) moving in time. Then, we can reason that because time-stop stands just stop themselves in time, erasing that period completely nullifies the ability. Does that make sense?
I literally made my own king crimson move irl, since like the teleport behind and then chop is cool I decide to make that but teleportation ain’t real so I found out I can just go behind people and chop them with my hand
I know am childish :(
A question I’ve had is what makes king crimson not just a worse the world? time skip works in a way like time stop except time is still moving. If Dio were in Diavolo’s place, what exactly would’ve changed?
“But it’s just Narancia so whatever” WHAT take that back he was so sweet
Idk what’s wrong with me Narancia’s cool LOL
I feel like people when they discuss time stop and King crimson they forget how other people see it. If somebody use time stop and King crimson used epitaph to see them use it and then erased that time it would look like the person who used to time stop changed their position in the blink of an eye probably punching a hole through diavolo. So when time is skipped it skips the entirety of the time stop and any additional time since time stop doesn't take up time.
EXACTLY, time stop doesn't take up time, just stop it. Jotaro fans are so bias that they can't understand this and say "Yeah if Jotaro activates time stop while time being erased, Diavolo's ability will end but Jotaro's time stop will remain and he can easily kill Diavolo", but as you said, time stop doesn't take up any time, it just pauses. It's like watching a 5 min RUclips video, if you paused it for 1 hour, the video didn't became 1 hour long, it will remain as 5 minutes
The problem is this:
Time skip is not actually a time manipulation ability, rather that it erases people’s Perception of time, which is why it’s called time erasure. The most op aspect of it is that Diavolo becomes intangible. If jotaro stopped time first, diavolo would be screwed, but it he activated it first , we don’t know if jotaros memory of his timestop would be erased, as timestop occurs outside of the continuity of the flow of time. If his perception were erased, then diavolo would be able to survive and attack first, but SP is also the fastest and most powerful stand so odds are jotaro would react and either reduce the damage or just straight up counter and ora ora.
@@dripg0djv280 you know I never really thought about time erasure like that. Since diavolo can look at the future with epitaph and goes through the erased time. I think he would see a giant blob of movement that doesn't look good and he would be like let me erase that. I'm also not familiar with what the cooldown on each respective ability is. Because if time eraser has a cool down greater than the cooldown of time stop then the first slip-up he makes would mean his death.
@@jonathansuber1551time erasure has no effect on diavolo stamina he can keep spamming like he did in the show unlike jotaro
@@dripg0djv280nah it is his official listed ability is time erasure the character himself states it’s time erasure and he can erase time his fight against risotto was evident of this when he erased 0.5 secs of time resulting in the bullets going through him and ofc THE AUTHOR himself had stated his ability is time erasure you can make up whatever nonsense you want king crimson has a time manipulation ability named time erasure
Ive heard people say the other way, that king crimson is doppios stand and epitaph is diavolos, I always liked that idea, its represents how secretive diavolo is that he hides behind another identity,
KC and Epitaph are both Diavolo's. Epitaph is part of KC as a sub-Stand on default and was never Doppio's. This is fully supported when Doppio dies fully and is separated from Diavolo for good. Diavolo still has Epitaph and KC, nothing changing for him.
i would honestly take king crimson over the world or star platinum because time stop takes stamina however diavolo can just time erase
One thing I don't really follow with on this one is that if actions Diavolo is fated to take happen with or without his ability, surely actions fated to happen to him would as well? For example him dodging Aerosmith's bullets, surely if Epitaph saw him getting hit then bullet holes would appear through him even with erased time under this logic? Surely his actions would be just as subject to/immune to fate as his outcomes are?
I think it is "Fate" that confuses me a bit when it comes to King Crimson - with the cleaning lady, Bruno and Narancia it seems that Diavolo has the power to skip to the end of his own fated path, while everyone else remains static - I mean should they not also move along their fated path? The lady would react to a man jumping out the window, Bruno would be following Trish and the gang would try to help Narancia. Even if they do not remember how they got where they are, they should have at least moved from their original spot.
Time is obviously fickle in Jojo, Dio had long speeches inside his timestop, so I can buy that a close range stand like King Crimson moves really fast, but it is still stretching things a bit, especially when he is surrounded by other stand users.
There is also the fact that he can "reposition himself" - if he skips time, should he not just fast forward to where he will be in ten seconds? Sounds a bit more like the Worlds time stop ability. Then again I suppose that he only "locks" himself into place if he uses epitaph, and that Fate does not affect 100% of every action?
Fate can only be changed if you know whats going to happen, only pucci with MIH and diavolo with epitath can.
I completely agree with you, but the point of fated things happening because of gravity can also have another explanation. That is, instead of the fated events automatically happening because of gravity, it might be the case that Diavolo would simply be able to interact with things as long as he is fated to and chooses so. Basically, his intangibility is optional and he chooses to disable it once he sees a favorable fate.
Tbh I've always favored this argument over the 'things happening on their own', but after hearing your argument of gravity doing that, this seems way more plausible. I think both options are pretty valid and it's impossible to know which one it is.
maybe when the elevator scene happened diavolo attacked trish from the distance
Its supposed that Diavolo can choose if he wants to be part of the close future that epitaph shows or just not, jump into the results without being part of the process
it makes sense
after thinking about it for a while i think king crimson could maybe beat wonder of u but i'm not 100% sure since he can use epitaph on seeing the coming calamity to dodge or use king crimson's time skip (if he can't dodge or destroy the incoming calamity). the thing i'm not sure about is when he attacks wonder of u does he have enough time to use the time skip or not
King Crimson only erases the perception of peoples time, time erase makes him intangible. Because of epitaph fate will happen 100%. King crimson can choose to keep the current course of fate and just skip what is perceived to have happened. Essentially king crimson can give us the effect and not be able to know the cause. Easiest way to explain king crimson is that he can remove himself from the course of fate if it benefits him. When he killed narancia and took Trish he was going to do these things anyways in normal time but simply skipped their perception of it because these things were faded to happen.
1: the way king crimson works is actually a little simple, but the way they made it in the anime, and that epitaph scene, AND the Trish scene along with weird mistakes didn’t really help.
2: you don’t even need to be a fighter for this stand to be good, it basically makes it where you probably wont die by a murderer. maybe you can even skip over accidents or car crashes and survive those?
I just belive that Diavolo broke the elevator celing, I immediately use the time skip so they won't notice the sound or the block, entering that same space, and since neither Bucciarati or Thrish were able to notice it, it might have been enough time for King Crimson to cut off Thrish's hand and use his ability once more at almost the same instant where he cut off his hand, and just grabbed his body and walked out of the elevator. (Yes I think King Crimson is able to interact with things in the time skip, but not damage them)
Now imagine if KK actually got requiem
King Crimson not actually skip time, it change the flow of fate. And that's what i like about it.
I want a death battle with King crimson vs Hit from dragon ball
7:41 "If Diavolo himself is fated to perform an action or set of actions during time skip, then, without him actually needing to perform those actions himself, the results of those actions will remain once time skip has concluded."
You go on to explain that the way this basically works is that Diavolo waits until he sees an event in Epitaph, and then just erases time to make it happen quickly and easily. You also bring up the problem that Bucciarati would have some kind of evidence of a fight left over from that, but never solve it.
The only other explanation for this scene and others like it is that he simply can interact with things during timeskip, but just doesn't. Neither explanation works very well here. Both options are just plot contrivance. Either Diavolo randomly gets to do whatever he wants in universe, which is really just Araki deciding he gets to, or Diavolo inexplicably only uses his ability occasionally.
I always assumed he would beat Time Stop
i'd say both star platinum and the world win against king crimson once they're within range as i don't think he can erase stopped time, even if they can't get a surprise attack because diavolo is paranoid enough to check epitaph every 10 seconds as we know kc just positions itself behind the targets to then attack so he'd put himself in range to where sp's superior reaction speed and overall speed would allow him to stop time before anything can happen and take out kc at once. also an interesting thing suggested by the video "what happened if fugo used purple haze" or something like that is that if diavolo somehow gets infected by the purple haze virus he's toast within seconds, and all that time he'd want to skip is less time he has before dying.
also wdym "it's just narancia so whatever"? narancia was best boy he deserved better
of cause he can skip stopped time, everything jotaro/dio would do in stopped time is just an instant that diavolo would skip
King Crimson is a mini "The Almighty" so i know how broken it is .
I'm gonna have to disagree with King Crimson bypassing or overriding Time Stop, at least not entirely.
The way I view it is that since time is stopped and thus does not exist for anyone but those with that ability, what takes place during stopped time CANNOT be skipped over no matter what. But what it can do is "erase" or cut out the action of them stopping time, or at least them remembering why they used it.
Example: Diavolo and Jotaro fight, and Diavolo uses Epitaph to see that Jotaro somehow teleports and potentially impales him with Star Platinums fist. Diavolo then uses Time Erasure to try and skip past that and evade his death. But when he does this, Jotaro "wakes up" in the world of stopped time, with no memory of WHY in that moment that he would've used Time Stop in that moment specifically.
Now from here while Jotaro may not be able to harm Diavolo due to him now existing outside of fate, Jotaro WILL have fill control over himself and remember what happened during the following 5-10 seconds of stopped time.
KC is perfect for people who had Anxiety problems
In my opinion King Crimson is the second strongest stand after GER.
WoU, D4C have a lot of weaknesses on which their enemies can capitalise. But King Crimson just doesn’t have any major weaknesses. In all situations where Tooru and Valentine were caught off guard Diavolo would benefit or at least stay unharmed.
Furthermore, Diavolo is an only character aside from Giorno who can escape such attack like: Kira’s bombs, Bite The Dust, Golden rotation, Calamities become useless against Diavolo. It’s far too broken.
Plus he can escape from Notorious BIG, Green Day mold, Speed King ability by using time erasure.
Plus King Crimson counters Pucci’s MiH. In this match up all the speed and energy of MiH would turn against him. Just imagine full speed Pucci collides with a King Crimson fist.
I despise when people say that it is confusing, and what gets under my skin even more is when people say it erases their perception of time. It is so simple, I can look 10 seconds into the future, i no like after math. I erase time which makes me in able to be hurt or attack during this time, but others are bound to their fate. I set up counter attack and i strike. It is so simple
U should make more jojo videos
9:57 can't we just say Diavolo was fast enough to do that?
Does that mean that Diavolo can manipulate fate at some point? For example if he sees himself get hit by a bullet but erases time in that very moment, he would have avoide/changed his own fate or did I get something wrong?
Diavolo said he shared part of his power with Doppio. That's why Doppio can use Epitaph and King Crimson's arms. But make no mistake, King Crimson is Diavolo's Stand, as he is the only one who can fully utilize him. Doppio cannot use time skip. Diavolo can. Doppio cannot manifest all of King Crimson (perhaps due to Diavolo reducing the chances of other stand users to see his stand). Diavolo can.
Also, I thought it was pretty clear Diavolo can in fact interact with and/or "harm" his enemies while time is "stopped" (or at least seems to be stopped), since he almost donuted Giorno while time was "stopped", and same thing to Trish and the fortune teller. Dude was only reading Doppio's hand, and the next second he was holding his own severed hand and Diavolo revealed himself to finish him off.
I just searched up for crimson colour
I believe that this aspect of his ability also depends on chance, so in a szenario where KC fights vs Dio with TW, because of Dios super natural reflexes and The Worlds great strengh, I would say that eptitaph is gonna be less less likely to show a vision in which diavolo kills Dio because it's simply not as probable than when he killed narancia or took trishes hand, which were actions that he could have realistically accomplished. In general I think fate most of the time acts after Probability so for instance 1 in a 1000000 times Idk polnareff wins a 1v1 agsinst Dio because fate was just unreasonable lucky that day. So yeah, this aspect helps diavolo vs weak stands compared to his but against stands which could dodge his normal attacks most of the time with their ability, he probably wont get a nice insta kill vision
What would happen if he did try to attack in erased time
Could he or would he be intangible not being able to, if so couldn’t he just put his hand already in in there head or where there hart is then end erase time to inst kill them
People: Dio is vampire and owns The World, he will instantly react to Diavolo!
Meanwhile Dio being stabbed by a jumping Polneraff:
2:20 nah, he's strong, but Za Warudo and part 3 StarPlatinum physical strength are just broken,
Think about it for a sec
When King Crimson donuts someone, thats all
When Dio did it to kakyoin, who have a similar body type compared to Diavolo's victims, this guy flew, so he transferred a lot more energy, so he used more force
Like, remember the final parts of Dio VS Jotaro,when Za Warudo kicks Jotaro, this guy just flew away and even past a house, he Open a hole in a house and even that wasn't enough resistance to stop Jotaro's movement caused by Za Warudo attack
Kakyoin only flew so far backwards because time was stopped. If time was flowing, The World's fist would've pierced right through him like King Crimson did to Abbachio. I mean think about it, if you stab a piece of paper with a pencil, the paper isn't sent flying backwards, however if time was stopped, that force would empart entirely onto the paper, sending it flying backwards. Also bullets go right through people instead of sending them flying back 100ft. Kakyoin was sent flying backwards because the force of the donut hit him all at once, but if time was resumed, some of the force would be absorbed, and The World's fist would stab through him and he wouldn't be sent flying backwards. Also Dio kicked Kakyoin in stopped time, emparting even more force into him in stopped time.
@@josephjewstar3145 time stop don't Buff attacks,
After that, When Jotaro hits Za Warudo, (if u didn't realize, Dio move in stopped time) and Dio flew away (not the same way as Kakyoin, because Dio is stronger than Kakyoin, and Dio's stand was the one that was hit, a stand that have more resistance compared to his own user)
And after that, Dio drinks Joseph's blood, time stops..... 9 seconds and time resumes, then Dio spam hits on Jotaro, he flew away a lot, Jotaro literally passed through a building and was still going
Did Diavolo did something close to that in strength? Did he?
@@miranhaespada1381 Dio literally was only able to break jotaro's bones when he did that. king crimson literally tears through people every time it hits them, king crimson has never been shown landing a hit and not tearing something apart
@@GratefulMessiah so that's the point
Jotaro's durability was higher somehow in SC
If u use other example, like Dio vs Kakyoin..
Or the cases when Jotaro hits Dio
@@GratefulMessiah and since when do u think it's easier to make holes on humans than in buildings??