A BIG CHANGE FOR BETHANY BEAL | Dav and Bethany React to 24HRS WITH Paul and Morgan Reaction
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- Опубликовано: 15 мар 2024
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“This girl who’s made a couple response videos to us who SAYS she’s a Christian” already you can hear the fact that they’ve made up their mind to invalidate your participation in the faith god they make my BLOOD BOIL😭😭😖🙃
Perfect Fundie answer...."If you don't believe the same way I believe, than you're NOT a Christian!" The ol' "No True Scotsman" argument.
I felt like they didn't want people looking her up because people might recognize her as a genuine Christian haha. Like she even goes straight to the Bible for references in videos.
When Dav spoke about how being a Christian made him feel like he's the worst, he's bad, he's wrong--EXACTLY. When I was a believer, I felt guilt CONSTANTLY because I was never measuring up... there was always an area of my life that wasn't 100% devoted to God, so therefore, I was bad.
Please don't throw the baby out with the bath water. I live with OCD Scrupulosity and had to change church because of it as the very weighty nature of the church was not good for me as I get very down with it.
I moved to a church where I feel I can rejoice in my salvation and what Jesus gave me. I love a song by Casting Crowns, East to West. It summed up my feelings and has helped me. I pray this post helps you. Please never give up on Christ. He loves you xxx
@@sambailie4773 truly appreciate your response. I've got a couple sisters that are still believers, and it's inspiring to hear and see how, despite the same upbringing, they didn't have the same outcome as me. These days, I'm choosing to find God out in nature. That may change, I'm not totally closed off to anything.
@@KelseyDunlevythis what we are also doing since moving to the USA and havent found a church online or in person. Me and my husband read Bible, chat, and spend a lot of time in nature.
I’ve felt God in nature more than I have ever been able to experience inside the four walls of a church.. as someone who felt very similar to you (I’ve now been deconstructing for years) it can be healing and peaceful to sit in the open air and simply exist for awhile. 🫶🏼
@@EmeraldMidnights yes! You put it perfectly. And it's great to feel not so alone in all this.
My win is I got the flu at 40 weeks pregnant and little girl is still hanging in there letting me get well before I birth her 🙌🏻
Oh man, wishing you a speedy recovery and safe birth!! I’m glad she’s decided to give you a bit more time before making her debut 💛
Ugh...I hope you feel better very soon, and that you're all recovered by the time baby girl greets the world.
"Approving of your sinful lifestyle." Wow. Just wow. Morgan is just a horrible person imo.
Morgan doesn't realize that most people don't see that as sinful and therefore there's no reason to call them out. Instead we call out Morgan and Paul for their sinful lifestyle of judgement and condemnation towards anything that isn't just like them. It's funny how they didn't like Isaiah calling them out for things Isaiah thought were sinful that P&M don't but they can't consider that they are 100% doing that to everyone else.
That really struck me too. Holy shit. Absolutely disgusting. If I ever met her I’d let her know what I think of her.
No kind of hate like Christian "love" smh yeah I can't make excuses for her anymore. I have a lot of empathy for both of them but theyre just getting worse and worse as they get older.
@@scarlettreddingI’m so tired of hearing this phrase. Stop saying it. It’s not “Christian love” if it’s hateful. Get off the train and actually think about it, please.
@@Nomarcaperdude no it is “evangelical love” or “Christian love.” Christianity imo deserves to have a negative connotation after what the people in this religion have been responsible for for CENTURIES. and it’s still happening now. Personally, Im not going to speak highly of Christianity as a whole, ever. But i can speak highly of certain Christian individuals that do not perpetrate this nonsense.
The thing that infuriates me about P&M in the original 24hr video is that they stated the point of this series is to foster unity in Christians and Morgan comes out of left gate with "you gotta do what works for your marriage" and then continues to rant in the second video about how she would not put up with deconstruction in her marriage. Girl, that is the exact opposite of unifying. She specifically makes a point of othering Bethany and Dav for their beliefs and its counterproductive to the messaging of their series.
Exactly this! Where exactly is that unity and support from Morgan?
Best fundie response channel!!
I will say, I don’t think Dav betrayed Bethy by not disclosing his faith doubts before their marriage. He’s speaking from retrospect, so something that’s super clear to him now was likely very muddy back then. Remember, these are people who saved their first kiss for marriage. Unless you experience or intensively research high-control groups, you can’t understand how much dishonesty and avoidance - with yourself and with others -is required to survive and not mentally and emotionally implode. Dav wasn’t even capable of being fully honest with himself back then, I guarantee.
My win is that a couple years ago I had an essay about questioning my faith published in a magazine, and they've invited me to do a reading at an event tonight.
That's great!
Wow! That’s so cool to be invited to come share your work. 🎉
Link please...? 😊
Wow! That’s so awesome! How did it go? 😊
On the subject of Dav expressing that he may have been dishonest with Bethany when they were on the path to marriage - I think the church corners people into being “dishonest” in this way because of all the pressures to conform and threats of ostracization. The church encourages you to deny yourself - to separate your real feelings from some external spiritual speculation; and frame doubt as a character flaw that only God can deal with. In short, honesty isn’t exactly a choice. It takes a very hardy, introspective person to come to terms with what they really believe in the face of so much opposition to critical thinking and individuality. So, I think it’s very simplistic to say he was presenting something he really wasn’t, and accusing him of pretending is a dangerous path to tread. For all we know, he earnestly believed and was just struggling with the cognitive dissonance…that’s not dishonesty, that’s just a difficult place to be.
That said, I worry a bit for Dav because I think he’s being too hard on himself, in the noble effort to take responsibility for his flaws and grow. I worry a bit that others will use his sensitivity and honesty against him. When my husband and I deconstructed, I became an atheist initially while he was exploring other forms of Christianity. (We both became atheists eventually.) This was years ago, but my mom to this day accuses my husband of deceiving everyone and leading me into being an atheist and smears him to her friends and church community. It got so bad I had to cut off communication with her, sadly. My husband is so sincere, thoughtful, and of all the horrible relationships I’ve been through, has been a complete safe space for me, a love I never thought possible…so to frame that deconstruction headspace - that fight with yourself to either “force yourself through it” or to “surrender to your intuition” - as pretending - is very unfair and, although Dav said he was dishonest, I think we can take that with a grain of salt knowing how hard it is to even know your own feelings in that kind of community.
Dav and Bethy are adults and I don’t doubt they can get through this. I just hope they have good support from solid people who will take them seriously and not try to tear them apart.
I’m also hearing the perpetuation of a narrative I think is incorrect and based on a lot of church-culture based fear: the whole “equally yoked” thing. There are people who get together who don’t have the same beliefs all the time; many relationships fail because of that and many thrive. Many relationships in which there are identical beliefs fail or thrive. There’s no universal formula for how a relationship is going to play out, and the sort of open, honest, nuanced, flexible communication we’re seeing from Bethy and Dav is a positive sign for them.
Maybe I’m wrong and you don’t mean to communicate that at all.
Thank you for putting all this into words. I feel this situation is far too emotionally complex for people to understand if they haven’t directly experienced it. The “unchanging spouse” is a myth, and that realization is both painful and a big moment of growth.
@@theadora9377That’s a great way to put it.
Completely agree
I wouldn’t be surprised if Paul acts nicer to Morgan in public bc other people are actually there physically watching. I know my dad was nicer to my mom in public, but mean behind closed doors. Someone at my church even said they look up to my parents relationship and I was there like huhhhh💀
What’s odd to me though is that he’d be self aware enough to regulate his behavior in public but not on camera. Or at the very least not aware enough to fix it in editing.
@@jydakota95 Yeah, I was confused about that too. I’m thinking there’s not as much pressure to be nice when filming bc no one is physically there with them. They usually film in their home, which is where one feels most comfortable to be their true self.
This is what I was thinking too. Also it made me nervous for Morgan that Paul drinks. Bc he already seems like a temperamental personality, so I could see alcohol bringing out the worst in someone like that.
My win for the week was making my therapy appointment!
That’s so great! 💛
I feel like when Dav revealed that he pushed himself into “belief” because he wanted to marry Bethany, I think you reacted to it in a very restricted perspective. I think it is by design of their sect of Christianity that NOBODY is actually equipped or emotionally mature enough to be getting married, nor are they even permitted to really get to know themselves or eachother. I also just want to note that Dav was raised in this homeschooled extreme fundy style of Christianity, too. In addition to wrestling with the fear of losing Bethany, he was also likely dealing with the hugely existential crisis of realizing everything he’d ever been taught has lead him to this moment and *what if he is wrong*? I don’t think he was so much just being disingenuous by pushing through his doubts and marrying Bethany because I don’t think marriage to her was the only motivating factor here. It seems kind of built in to Christianity generally that you are taught to put a stop to your critical thought if it gets “too close” to objectivity that leads to doubt. I think that is a through line in the entire religion (as I am someone raised Catholic but is atheist now). I just think some empathy for Dav in his contradicting of his whole culture and upbringing is due here because I think it’s likely that that was a motivating factor to “push through doubts” as much as if not more than marriage to Bethany, no disrespect intended to her. I don’t think he “just wanted to lie”.
I agree with your take and, as someone who has deconverted from christianity, I know how it feels to slowly question things over time and feel like I don't have anyone to share my concerns with since doubts and questions are not welcome within christian circles. I also think there's this misconception that deconstructing is a conscious choice rather than the result of seeking truth to alleviate cognitive dissonance, and so it's not fair to say that someone is being dishonest by not voicing concerns regarding the belief system their entire world is constructed around. I do not believe that Dav was being disingenuous by not speaking up about his doubts because christians are often told doubt is normal and you "just have to have faith". It sounded like that was his perspective at the time and that he likely didn't see himself questioning further, and therefore didn't see any point in making it into a big thing.
I passed my tests so thats a win for me
Congratulations, that’s awesome! 🎉
@@BHaneyThank youuuu🥹🥹
No one mentioned Allie Beth Stuckey because she's a horrible person. How shallow does one have to be, to think only about someone's tone and not think about what they're actually saying?
Of course, it's not really a surprise that Paul would only accept examples that align with his worldview,
Don't get me started on "Bible-believing" Christians start talking about worldviews.
Yeah, he’s basing her being “nice” solely on tone instead of the actual message. He’s free to be a fan of her but I’m not sure why he would think people who have a problem with the things he says would rally around ABS 😳
@BHaney, this must be why many "christian" influencers can say terrible dehumanizing things about people, but quote Bible passages about corrupt speech against anyone who utters an expletive after stubbing a toe.
Yes!
It reminds me of that quote from the movie ‘Knocked Up’ where the wife says to her husband, “You just think because you don't yell that you're not mean.”
So many of these Christian influencers are sweet in their delivery but mean when it comes to their conduct and the messages they disseminate.
At times it's almost as though they aren't interested in spreading the gospel because it's more beneficial for them to have people to look down on/ treat as opposition in an ultimately meaningless culture war. It's sad.
My jaw actually dropped when Paul said that. She’s one of the last people I would think of as nice, caring, empathetic person, let alone christian. The things she says publicly are so incredibly hateful, I shudder to think what she says in private. Her calm tone may fool Paul, but I don’t think many others are. I doubt even her viewers think she’s being kind/caring on her show lol
I really appreciate your perspective on this. Most people who cover this are atheists so i appreciate a Christian's perspective. I too am deconstructing and I'm not sure where I'll end up. I am really impressed with Bethany's response, its good to see this side of her. I really hope they're able to navigate through this because I truly believe they love each other.
There's so much to discuss about religion and the Bible, but Christian *influencers* are so antithetical to Christ's teachings. You cannot assert a position of judgement trying to separate goats from sheep and boss people around while spreading grace and showing kindness and humility. Bossy, bold humility isn't a thing. Being homeschooled isn't accreditation to interpret the Bible for everyone.
These foolish folks think they are all Paul, but they don't really understand Paul or have the education of Paul.
This exactly. Most are Paul impersonators who can’t let internet criticism roll of their backs or be bothered to evaluate their own actions to see if they even align with the kind of person Jesus was. I’m glad to see Dav branching out and doing some real reflection.
The ones that I see are divided in two groups.
Either trying to be good people, and they are also Christians, and take advice and guidance on how to do good from their faith. This also goes for other faiths, or lack thereof, where people take their guidance from certain philosophy etc. but since we're talking about Christianity specifically...
Or there are the people who shout really loudly about how very Christian they are and who are really performative about their faith, but don't seem to do the things Christians ought to do. I'm thinking of the instagram Christian girlies who talk about doing things because of their faith, like wearing modest and fashionable clothing for example but they're also wearing just a sports bra in a gym. They aren't really different from the fitness, fashion, or lifestyle influencers they deride, they just also happen to film themselves praying, but they really place themselves above the other influencers.
The thing that irks me most of all about this second group is how incredibly hypocritical they are, saying one thing and doing another. Like, I don't really care about modest clothing, wear what you like, but they first make a video talking about what is and isn't allowed, and then turn around with a video about a pair of leggings and sports bra and their gym routine.
My win for the week was teaching my son to help me wash our dogs. My husband and I have been sharing the task between the two of us and we have three dogs so it is a lot of washing 😂. My son was so excited to learn and I could tell it really gave him a sense of pride and responsibility. Big big win.
My win for the week is that no one was hurt in the car crash I was in yesterday
Glad you’re safe ❤️❤️
That’s a huge win! Accidents are so scary, I’m glad everyone is ok.
Re: Paul talking about progressive Christians affirming lgbtq and how it's a bad thing... just wait until one day it dawns on him.... that there ARE ✨️gay, lesbian and bisexual Christians✨️ (if he could ever be open minded enough.. I'm not hope at the moment though)
My win for the week, I finally got new glasses after like 6-8 years.
What a fun new thing!!
I had one pair so long the frames went out of style and came back around again. I'm like, oh, we're doing wire frames again? Coolio. I'm already there.
I'm really impressed with how Bethany is pressing into her marriage through this. I don’t agree with her on most things, but it takes real trust in your partner and their journey to be responding the way she is. I also continue to be UNIMPRESSED by P&M and their new venture. The truth is, they are not good JOURNALISTS, which they would have to be to pull this kind of project off. They are not curious enough about other people's perspectives, and non-judgemental when those perspectives clash with their own, to be able to really do this type of project. Their idea is really interesting, but only if it were done by people with a real journalistic nature.
Thanks for all you do, B! Long time watcher, first time commenter here 😊
Thank for having this channel. it's good to have representation for Christian women that isnt judgmental but still biblically sound. ❤
Agreed! I love Jesus, but there’s so much hate and white Christian nationalism in other spaces…I’m glad we have B to be a voice of kindness and reason.
@@BerserksEclipsethis! I deconstructed about 7 years ago. I love Jesus too much to ever leave, but I realized just how much of my church’s views were influenced by American and conservative values, And I refused to continue down that path.
You are so caring, succinct, thoughtful. I’m an agnostic atheist, but you are my favorite kinda person. You love when people follow their truth and heart. It’s so lovely.
Same 🥹❤️
Ok B I guess I have a lot to say on this matter lol. I don’t think it’s unfathomable to support your spouse’s religious teachings when you don’t believe them or are wrestling with them. As an atheist, if my partner wanted to teach our kids about God I would support it, because they love their religion. Maybe Dav also loves Christianity; I’m an atheist who had horrible, horrible experiences in church but there are still aspects of Christianity I hold dear and I also recognize the cultural prominence it holds in our society. So, of course I’d be open to my kids learning about the faith, especially from someone I love and trust. In fact, I might even be exciting to foster a household in which there are healthy disagreements about faith. Even cooler to be in a household that promoted learning about all kinds of faiths.
I just think…it’s only a problem if you make it a problem.
I'm chronically ill, and I'm in a flare-up of symptoms this week. My first win this week was RESTING when I needed to. I know this might sound minor, but I was hoping to cook 3-4 dishes this week, and I listened to my body and didn't do any of that. That means that I'm eating convenient, processed foods that I would usually reserve for emergencies. I decided that this week is why I have those foods around! I'm also going to be missing a lot of my 6-y-o niece's activities this week and next, but I haven't pushed myself to go anyway and then have a health crisis. And my biggest win is that I don't feel guilty about any of it!!! I'm getting better at this disabled life.
Regarding your thoughts toward the end. Girl Defined is a ministry - that's what they call themselves, legally - so it does feel super callous for them to imply or say they don't owe apologies/amends/explanations for harmful messages they've previously preached.
Its great to see Dav and Bethy having a respectful, grown-up conversation.
Unfortunately P&M dont seem to be getting a lot out of this exercise. I remember a work meeting I came out of once where the guy who dominated the discussion said, "I dont think we're getting a lot out of these meetings that we didn't already know."
No kidding. 😂
I have watched so many people react to this video. I love this and as a former right wing Christian I have hope Bethany will come around and Dav makes her a better woman 100%
Can I do a future win? My win is that this Monday is my 35th birthday! Aging is a beautiful thing, and I’m grateful to go into my 35th year happy and healthy ❤
Happy early birthday!!!
Happy early birthday! ❤🎉 I’m turning 35 in April too!
Happy early 35th!! I hope you have an amazing birthday and I agree, it is a blessing to get to age 💛
@@CelestialBarbie happy early birthday!!!
Omg hey that’s my comment!! ❤❤
I couldn't help but laugh hearing that Paul didn't have the guts to even name you! My guess is because he knows that you would call him on his shit and are a believer. He is more invested in being in control of an interview than having a deep conversation.
As someone who deconstructed and am attempting to opening back up to faith, I have a lot of empathy for Dav. I doubt he was actively lying to Bethany. It doesn't feel like you are lying to your partner, you are in a mentally fractured state where you are hoping if you do all the things the faith tell you to, you will magically feel like you once did. It's a bit of a Humpty Dumpty rhyme. He was trying to live out his principals and in the end and couldn't put his faith back together in the neat package it once was. It is disappointing for Beth and Dav both that neither of them could go on living the life they envisioned for themselves.
I genuinely just loved seeing them seem happy around eachother!
My WFTW: I reached out to my therapist and 988 when I started having suicidal thoughts again.
I honestly felt like I lost/failed bc this was the first time it's happened in over a year. But based on how I feel today, it's feels like I made it through the storm.
Well HELLO! We all did not see this coming 🤯. Excited to hear your commentary!
There’s so much happening!! 🫨
I laughed out loud when they said ABS is an example of a kind and sweet Christian voice. It was hilarious…and then when I thought about it, it was just sad. P&M genuinely think that’s what Christian love looks like.
The thumbnail: pictured: Bethy, Dav, and B Haney, the couples therapist
😂
I have been a Christian my whole life but there is a period in growing up I questioned my faith. It helped me grow in my faith actually cuz I researched and read the bible for myself and deconstructed. Which is what supposed to happen because we are to have our own relationship with God not backing on anyone else.
Soo... I didn't know who Allie Beth Stuckey was, and looked her up. The first video, the FIRST VIDEO I CLICKED ON, started off well by misgendering people. I don't think she would be someone P&M's "haters" would like. Or anyone outside the conservative sphere for that matter.
My win for the week is that I'm in the local production of "Fiddle on the Roof" and we had 5 performances between Thursday and Sunday and all 5 got standing ovations. Like you, I think Dav should have been upfront with Bethany before they got married about where he was and where he might be going. This has to be so hard on her, and I have a lot of empathy for her.
I highly doubt that Dav had the level of intention about making Christianity work for Bethany as he presents it now. Speaking as a person who has been through a faith crisis. And I do think he didn't have the emotional skills to deal with his doubts bc his extreme brand of christianity doesn't allow for that development. I just hear him and think he values accountability a lot but may be taking too much of it in this instance. Just my thoughts.
I'm not surprised Dav is deconstructing because of previous posts he made (especially the one he made about suicide).
My win for the week is not going broke this week.
What post did he make about suicide? I don’t follow him on any socials
Cheers. I’ve got $12 in my checking, but all my bills are paid and I’ve got groceries and gas for the rest of the month! Plus another paycheck coming soon!
@@abbywolf9701 I viewed it on Fundie Fridays channel. It's part of the Girl Defined playlist and it's titled "it gets bad".
My win this week is going to the library for the first time in months.
I’ve been waiting for your take on this! Excited to hear it
Thanks!! I’m interested to hear your thoughts too, this is definitely a deviation from what we usually see on this side of the internet.
I like seeing this kinder, more authentic feeling, bethy, and dav.
I also think paul refuses to admit he knows you or acknowledge that you are a bible literate Christian that is kind, intelligent, and well spoken. And also well liked. He could never debate you because he'd lose. He doesnt want to give you the credit because he's also misogynistic and doesn't like the idea of women being better than him. Even when nobody is competing with im, everythings a competition with paul.
I'm not a fan of her Instagram reels, but I feel for her. I've been in similar situations and seen marriages try and work through difficulties, and she's got a road ahead of her. It's such an up-and-down journey for both. But she seems to have a strong desire to understand and make it work and a lot of love and respect for him (I was not expecting).
I admire the respect and openness you have for those you're "responding" to.
Never seen people less Jesus-like than Morgan and Paul. Absolutely vile. Jesus would truly not know them lol. I love You B. Thank you for being you ❤❤❤❤❤
“The girl who says she’s christian” is so gross. Like, people are christian if they say they are PAUL! Just another example of them being dismissive to people who think differently than they do.
I honestly think Bethany handled herself in this video so well, listening to him and validating his experiences. A nice surprise
my win is that my favorite artist released a new song yesterday and it’s so SOOO good! plus the weather has finally gotten nice and i’ve been able to go on walks again
Yay, so many good things! 🙌🏻
their intro was like, pretty freaking cute lol
Dang, they're actually really cute. They seem like a cute couple who love each other but is going through a really hard time.
As a Christian, I hope one day Dav finds a relationship with God where, like u described B, he recognizes he's an imperfect human being and God loves us and welcomes us back with open arms no matter what. His love is infinite and unconditional.
Can’t it be enough to just say “I hope he finds what’s right for him” and leave it at that? What works for you might not work for him.
@@mollym2151 well no, bc Jesus calls us to spread God's word and to spread the love of God. I don't believe I'm hurting anyone by doing that in a kind way.
@@briannarobinson8648 I think Dav is fully aware of the Word of God. He is on his own journey and becoming more true and honest with himself and Bethany. As an agnostic, I hope he and Bethany have a lifetime of love, sharing amazing conversations and good health.
My win for the week: my mouth has finally (mostly) stopped hurting since oral surgery two weeks ago. I even ate pizza with a knife and fork over the weekend! (No crusts though. The dog was quite happy with them.)
I was PRAYING you would make a video on this 🤩 so this video is my win for the week for sure
My WFTW is that my husband, infant son, and I got back from an across the country trip to visit family. It’s the first time we’ve flown with our baby, and it went so much better than I had feared. It was honestly a fun little vacation.
As always, I really appreciate your insight and criticisms. It’ll be interesting to see how this all develops.
What I got the most from that video is that this could be one of two things:
1) Bethany loves and believes in Dav more than she loves Girl Defined and fundamentalism (and I'm really hoping this is the case because that will likely influence her to become a more accepting Christian)
OR
2) Bethany is sticking it out because divorce in fundamentalism is a no-no
i think it's a great sign that they both can joke about dav deconstructing together, like he can swear to get a rise out of bethy but she knows it's all just to get her to smile. they both have a long journey ahead of them with religion, and i hope that they can continue to have moments like these regardless of what they go through in dav's deconstruction.
My win is that things are finally getting moving to where I am going to be able to move in with my fiance in about a month. We've been long distance for 3 years and I'm so excited to not having to wait every 6 months to see him and will be able to see him every day.
My win for the week is to finally tackle our garden weeds and have 3/4 out. Waiting for the storm to pass this weekend before I jump in again. Excited for a full flower and veggie garden this year.
Win for the week: developing a Bible discussion channel for a group of Gen Zer’s in a private discord group at their request. I’m using The Bible Project to orient them to the Bible as literature through a historic and linguistic lens.
And that gets me thinking … can you imagine if P&M spent 24 hours with Tim Mackie and John Collins? 😋.
… can’t say I’d wish that on my favorite Bible nerds, tho…
Wftw: daylight savings began which means I can pick up running again since I don't like running when it gets dark. I started this week and it feels so good to be back at it!
My win was volunteering for a local fundraiser for a nonprofit that helps grieving children, and getting to play gel soft while I was at it.
I made Ukrainian eggs at my spring Equinox party with one of my bestest best friends 😊🐣
It’s obvious dav felt continually condemned,I do relate,and it’s not the gospel of Christ or a fruit of the spirit,this is where religion creeps in and things get subtlety legalistic,watch who you surround yourself with and the sermons you take in.yes,the Holy Spirit convicts sin,but gently and w a kindness that leads you,not pushes you,to repentance.if your feeling not good enough,it’s not Jesus at work .
Go girl who makes response videos sometimes!!!! We know her!!!!
Hahaha love this
I've been waiting to hear your take! You bring such a level-headed view to these videos and I really appreciate it.
I'm really excited to see they're lives and relationships with each other and God progress.
Win for the week: Making it through another week alive/avoiding the local hospital while on a waitlist for an inpatient treatment program for anorexia. Doesn’t FEEL like a huge win, because I’m exhausted and terrified, but I can objectively acknowledge it’s a big freaking win.
Hey! Someone else wants the "24 hours with B Haney" I was asking for yesterday! I almost started a petition!
You've brought up really good points in the video and I don't have much to add, so here's a comment boost!
I felt for dav when he went into his questions and doubts in regards to his faith. I think one thing is that people will say find your identity in Christ or trust in him but often times there are no practical ways on how to go about it besides read the Bible and pray. If you say that to someone without any context it might be very hard for them to trust in the lord or find their identity in him. I hope God meets him in his doubt. My win for the week is my mother in law put on an Easter egg hunt for my daughter. It was so cute and my daughter was so sassy. Wanted to do things her way or no way 😂
morgan using... aave, or her version, anyway? no.
My win for the week is a two fold. My kid got into the university and program she wanted to and I made my TV debut.
I can’t believe how much I feel terrible for Bethany.
Thank you for the warning about Paul’s sweater choice. 😂
It’s a coogi type sweater. Which is the current trend.
My win for the week is my baby niece (who lives in another country) has learnt my name! And has started requesting video calls with me and yelling my name at me, and it warms my absolute heart.
My win for the week is that the kitty is coming home with me tomorrow. ❤️ His gotcha day is actually going to be his birthday too!
I’m not entirely sure how conscious Dave was with his doubts at first. Just offering my experience, but my journey was just kind of doubts in the back of my mind that I kept shoving back with prayer, for years, but not consciously shoving back. It wasn’t up until I finally decided that I couldn’t do it anymore that I finally realized what I had been doing. I was in a high control group and I felt guilty for being a “fake” as a result. I’m not sure how much of this is Dave “lying” and how much is that good old evangelical guilt. I do have a great amount of empathy for both of them. This is an incredibly difficult, messy, and scary time for both of them. I really hope that their families actually allow them the time to figure this out.
Lmaoooooo Allie B Stuckey having a “nice tone” maybe my character judgment is too strong but I don’t even hear her “tone” as sweet
My win for the week is that this week was spring break and I finally got to sleep in lol
Sleeping in is seriously the best!
7:55 Morgan's blaccent for "sass" and comedic effect 😒
Unfortunately she does that regularly. Which is especially bizarre since Paul regularly whines about “the woke agenda shoved down our throats,” aka the number of mixed race couples and people of color in general in movies and shows.
My WFTW is handing in the second draft of the last chapter if my thesis - and tomorrow I'm going to the States for 2 weeks to see my family!
I've watched ALL the reaction videos as well as the original D&B video (ZotS, Jordan and McKay, Fundie Fridays, Ex-Fundie Diaries) and no one has mentioned this: didn't Girl Defined put out some crazy long checklist of questions to ask your potential spouse to see if you're compatible? Sounds like that didn't work out too well...
I'm genuinely delighted for Dav, I was an evangelical Christian for 22 years (from age 14-36) and fully deconstructed to atheism 10 years ago. It's the best, most liberating decision I made. I no longer have to subject myself to religious scrupulosity about my clothinh, words, purchases, etc. I no longer have to employ thought-stopping techniques so that I don't accidentally think a "sinful" or "doubting" thought. I wish Dav all the freedom of thought so he can think his thoughts to their logical conclusion.
Ok, I just have to say that at the 27 min mark Dav is so adorable. He really seems like he's coming into his own.
Congratulations on getting deep sleep. My WftW was finishing a very simple home improvement project.
When I was growing up, and probably where I grew up (Pittsburgh, then Northern VA), people didn't really call themselves Christians. They usually called themselves by their denomination name. I would have said I was a Catholic. Then there were these non-denominational people who would call themselves "born-again Christian." Over the years, the words "born again" got dropped and the people calling themselves "Christians" expanded to add people who may go to a denomination’s church or something, and so now when I hear the term, "Christian," I think of a Protestant who goes to a church that has a less than formal liturgy. You know, the people who would say something like Christian or Catholics (because those are two different things, of course.) Now sometimes they add "bible believing" to the word Christian, and from what I can tell, that means that they have a few verses memorized and they build a life around them and when somebody comes up with a verse that contradicts theirs, they just repeat their verse.
So, yes, I'm not surprised either that Paul didn't find you satisfactory. Maybe you should start quoting Bible verses more. Or something.
He probably mentioned God is Gray by name, because she was the obvious one.
Interesting thoughts surrounding people's perceptions of what kind of religion they would consider themselves! My one disagreement with you is that, as a Catholic, I believe Catholics are Christian and that we can refer to ourselves as either!
@@user-uy1pt8rl8f Well. I agree with you about that. But there are a lot of people who wouldn’t.
Incidentally, I’m an atheist in that I don’t believe in God, but I’m Catholic in the sense that I had 12 years of CCD, received 4 sacraments and am my niece’s Godfather. So, depending on who asks me I say either I’m an atheist or I’m a Catholic.
@@RobAGabor I get ya! As a Catholic, I’ll pray for you as you discern your faith!
My win is that someone who caused a very horrible series of events in my life, did something very major for me days ago, completely unprovoked. I’m not sure what the final impact of this action will be, but I’m still thankful for it. I’m glad that sometimes people you expect only bad things from can still positively impact you.
Regarding Bethany, since Dav has been getting all the attention: I like this toned down presentation. I don’t agree with her views or beliefs at all, but she seems truly self-assured here, albeit a little sad. If she is actually ever going to be more open to changing and growing from the harmful things she’s put out there all this time, I could see this Bethany being successful, without having to do the weird courses on things she’s not qualified to teach. Not holding my breath, but as I’ve learned, you never know who will surprise you!
I'm in love with with there lovee, there relationship is so beautiful and real like a real life movie 😭😭
bethany: i'm not gonna give him the cold shoulder every time he cusses
also bethany: yells 'babe!' every time he cusses
My win for the week is that I got 4 pullet chicks 🐥
It’s not egotistical at all to acknowledge this at 11:54 sis! Paul dropping your handle would only send folx this direction.
They talk a lot about how Paul is a actually a nice person…not a lot to say a lot about Morgan. I guess people had more of problem with Paul, but still interesting.
I had to come back to this after thinking about the video for a bit. I have to give kudos to Bethany for being willing to stay and work through this with Dav. When he said that he felt this way even when they were first married and hid it, I was like 😬 Like you said B, it would be tough for me to sit with that as a wife. It's lying by omission. I would find it difficult to fully trust that he's being honest with me if he can hide that for years.
1:21:41 they are so sweet to each other! 🥹🥰❤️
Right?! I like this more open version of them
You’re 100 percent right about the reasons Paul won’t say your name.
B, I think you were a bit rough on Dav. I don’t believe he was purposely being dishonest with her about his religious views so that he could marry her. I can’t speak for Dav for but I do feel like I can relate to him in a way. I grew up in the church and was forced to go until I was 18. I’ve known since I was a child that I am not a Christian but I do not dare share that with anyone except my husband and my closest friends. I live in the Bible Belt and everyone automatically assumes you are a Christian. Being an atheist is almost unheard of in my area. My family, coworkers, customers, acquaintances, etc all talk about their religious beliefs openly in front of me and I just listen without saying a word. I think Dav being honest about his beliefs is extremely brave, especially considering they’ve put it on the internet.
It's brave of him to talk about this now, yes, but I don't believe B was being harsh about it at all. That's a HUGE betrayal of trust to those that it matters to. For you, it may not be that big of a deal, which is okay, but if my husband were to come to me after getting married saying that a lot of what I thought he was in his faith was kind of just an act, it would be very painful for me. It makes you question everything. Yes, after the dust settles, you see that Dave loved Bethany enough to cast aside his integrity, but that's the problem. He lied to get something he wanted, regardless of his intentions of doing so. I don't believe Dave was malicious, and I know that it was because he feared to lose Bethany, but she should have been in the know and should have been able to make that choice if she wanted to stay before their vows. I'm very proud of both of them because it's obvious they are taking their vows seriously.
@@NomarcaperI don’t think we have enough information to judge the extent to which he was “hiding” his real self from Bethany. People just aren’t that simple. When social pressure is involved, and stakes are high (risk of alienation from community, risk of losing employment, risk of losing a loved one, risk of eternal damnation…) we can just as easily deceive ourselves as we do others in the process of sorting out our real beliefs. Dav describes his lengthy journey to now in such a way that we can tell was more complicated than “I lied.” He describes how he had doubts, how they worked with counselors, how he arrived at an aha-moment where he was free from the fears that kept him from owning his beliefs.
At best, accusing of him of betrayal is an over-simplification, and at worst, it’s bad faith. Because of my own experience, I have to say that this suggestion that he was “cosplaying as a Christian” from B Haney and others here is really insidious, and warrants revisiting. It reminds me of how Christians use the no-true-Scotsman fallacy to deny that ex-Christians were ever Christians.
@@coco-pouf I disagree. Again, he even said himself that he was questioning these things before they got married. He was completely aware, not once did he say that he felt deceived in himself. If anything, he should have told Bethany that he was having some questions of his faith instead of playing along. Just because it was high stake for him and there was a lot of pressure does not change the fact that he did lie about who he truly was. I will say this again, it doesn’t matter what his intentions were, the outcome was still extremely painful and unfair to Bethany. He even acknowledges that himself.
I'm no longer christian, but your take on christianity is a breath of fresh air. You feel like someone I could be friends with and your content is helpful for my deconstruction. Its nice to know of one christian I can still respect.
I comment surfed before I reached the part in the video but I don't think you were too harsh on the whole 'hiding your own feelings to keep loving them' thing. I've seen a LOT of fundamentalist evangelicals say far worse about Dav, straight up condemning him to Hell for it all, and practically spitting on his proverbial grave for 'lying'. The way you spoke about it at least made me reflect on life with my ex... How he was pressing forward for growth and all the "where do we go from here?" stuff whilst I wanted to stay the same. I didn't want us to change or grow, I just liked how it was. Not that I didn't want to marry him, I absolutely saw myself marrying him out of love... But I didn't want to get married to him then. Or move in. Or do any of the stuff he does now with his life partner.
I did, however, roll with it and appease him until he finally wanted it us to make an ultimatum and when I didn't answer the way he wanted, he broke up with me.
We both did a lot of harmful things towards each other and our emotional wellbeing throughout it all, but where I was disingenuous was not speaking up about what I wanted/didn't want. I fawned. I went along with fantasies, emotional dreams, first love intensity, and it smacked me in the face when I realised it wasn't just fantasising about a distant future for him - he wanted it now.
I struggle a lot still with fawning, but I am substantially more confident and vocal with my current sweetheart. I'm able to say what I want, what I don't want, and advocate for how I see my near and distant future. And, for the most part, approach him when he's upset me. Not all the time. Still working on that :P
Your point is true, in that someone's world can be rocked by not being fully honest/truthful with what's going on in their head.
I have been waiting for this video since the moment Bethy and Dav posted and I had to remind myself that you have a real life lol.
Every time I see Morgan I feel like she acts like she’s drunk or something
I had my suspicions when dav said he was seeing a secular therapist, but I never thought they’d be so open with deconstruction. I’m glad they’re being open and making the distinction that deconstruction doesn’t always mean atheism. I just hope it’s a positive influence on Bethany’s more harmful beliefs.
Your 'hello!' at 10:31 absolutely killed me lol. Them questioning others' faiths, yikes.
Have these two never been to a mainstream Protestant church? Have they never met Christians outside their narrow band of right-wing hate-mongering?
My goodness.
(Still a confirmed Episcopal atheist here) I enjoyed a discussion group with my hometown Presbyterian minister of Rob Bell's LOVE WINS. I was fascinated to see his journey, as a fundamentalist, towards what sounded to me like very mainstream, mainline Protestant Christian beliefs that have existed for at least a century - away from believing in a literal Hell, let along a God who would throw unbaptized babies into it, towards an understanding of how and why the Bible was written, and how much it was written by men, in a specific time and place, and that love is the central theme - but what saddened me was that several fellow discussion group members really struggled with those ideas themselves, even in a mainstream denomination. A woman had real fear that her son would be unSaved and thus condemned, and I could only think that, if I were in any way a believer, that would be a time to "let go and let God". If I did believe, believing in an entity that was *not comprehensible to me* would be central, and I would have to hope to take my comfort there.
A podcast favorite of mine, A Date With Dateline, branches out in the Patreon feed to discussing a show about matchmakers. Discussing one, with Jewish matchmakers, reminded me, as the secular, probably Reform, Jewish host explained some concepts to her Christian colleagues, one being that Judaism does not, on the whole, have the "we have the only right way and if you'e not in step with us you're DAMNED" point of view that permeates so many flavors of Christianity. One reason I explicitly mention Protestantism is that I think many of these Christian RUclipsrs don't even think about Catholicism when they talk about what they consider to be Christianity.
I miss the days when evangelists believed they should shun the secular realm. I keep paying attention because these are the people who want their religion to rule everyone else's lives.
They said in the original video that they have moved to a Lutheran church.
I find this so sad and I couldn’t imagine being in Bethany’s position.
Thank you. This was betrayal. My heart is hurting for Bethany, as much as I have been critical of her positions.
I think calling it a betrayal is a misunderstanding of where people who deconstruct are coming from. I think it’s likely an overstatement that Dav made saying he was “dishonest,” having cognitive dissonance about beliefs you want to hold and beliefs that contradict those beliefs, against the grain of a church culture that demands you deny yourself, is simply a struggle. Not, as B says, “cosplaying.” I think it’s just wrong to frame it that way, and I think if there was dishonesty to the degree of malicious deception, Bethy and Dav probably wouldn’t be showing the signs they do of the safety they feel around one another.
@coco-pouf I agree. To me, it sounded like he was struggling in his beliefs but kept trying to commit to it. Like he felt like he was failing as a Christian, and if he just committed himself and forced himself to blindly believe he would be what he thought he was supposed to be. In no way did I think that he was purposely deceiving her.
Also pls give us the god is grey scoop? I have only lightly heard of her but I’d be interested to hear your comments on what went down that caused her to leave RUclips!
I'm not going into the "Dav must be gay" BS, but your description of someone having doubts presenting as strong in their faith is very much the story of many gay men and some lesbians marrying - having doubts about being straight but, especially in a Christian-norm context, not having a way to examine them, and thus not only shoving the feelings and thoughts down, but marrying someone who's very into a "traditional" female role in hopes that that person then helps the doubting one strengthen the thing they're doubting. For women, there's often "the last guy" - the one who's so great - for a guy - that if you can't make it with them, welp, yep, you're the lesbian you suspected you were. (This also explains the joke my friend group often has about "is he gay or Christian or both?" about men we perceive to be closeted and trying too hard not to be gay.)
All of which to say that marrying someone thinking that they can help fix you is a common path. Maybe regrettable, but "fake it till you make it" is one strategy some take when confronting such thorny paths. And yes, the other person rarely understand what their role is in this unspoken scenario, and that is really hard. Getting to a point of honesty is also hard, and they seem to be handling these first steps well.
I think a lot of people (me included) who grew up with a family and community that were quite fundamentalist there is a pressure that you WILL be a Christian and you WILL continue to believe everything we believe because you’re a huge disappoint otherwise. And there’s a genuine fear of being ostracized and treated differently if you said how you really felt about aspects of Christianity. And in a way you’re almost gaslighted to believe that your doubts are a result of “outside” influences and if you just delve deeper and press into Christianity and it’ll all be fine. And you try to do that because you think if you do you’ll feel more accepted and maybe you will fully become what everyone wants you to be. You don’t trust yourself and for awhile you can put on a really good face of appearing to have a “strong faith” in the sense a faith that is acceptable to fundamentalist conservative view. I’m sure that happens to a lot of people in the LGBTQ+ community feel the same way, but it’s definitely not exclusive.