@Jan Dominic Detablan you can use something like Hardware Info (HWiNFO) to look at your system's specs. Under Memory select a module and look for "Number of bank groups" (it should be 8 or 16). for the ranks look for "Number of ranks (it should be 1 or 2). You can also search the part number online to confirm it.
DDR 5 seems to work better with x16 memory than DDR 4 did. That said, DDR 5 timings are super loose, especially on laptops. Maybe x8 memory would allow for tighter timings and better latencies, but we likely won't see that for a while.
Yeah, and even those brands which let DDR4 laptops to overclock DRAM timings (e.g. Eluktronics/XMG) have the BIOS disabled for DDR5, possibly because DDR5 SODIMM it's not yet mature technology to do that. I've read DDR5 would allow per-stick Voltage regulations, probably the best scenario is to keep everything automatic and do not allow any user interaction for this. But this means JEDEC only speeds out there.
Most laptops will just run DDR4 RAM at their JEDEC timings - they'll ignore whatever profile that comes loaded on the sticks. I believe there are different tiers of JEDEC timings for DDR5, but whether a laptop will default to the most performant profile is a guessing game.
it's the same every new generation. i went from DD3 1866Mhz, DD4 2666 Mhz later on for my Ryzen build 3600 Mhz and now my laptop with DDR5 with 4800 Mhz have as you mentioned looser timings. it's just how it is. but real world latency doesn't really increase but bandwidth increase significantly.
Wow, glad that Mr. Jarrod got sponsored 👍 Your channel is getting more famous Your dedication is starting to get paid off 👍👍 Ohh and, thank you for the DDR5 RAM investigation, Mr. Jarrod
We are seeing the same thing here. For the first time in several generations you can still get great performance running a single 16 GB stick. Of course the same cannot quite be said about a single 8.
I think the architecture difference in DDR5 Memory is making this much less of an issue. Unlike previous DDR memory, DDR5 has 2 memory controller per module in 2x32 bit configuration. That's why 2 stick DDR5 can run in quad channel. In DDR4 memory, a single memory controller faces delays while accessing multiple memory banks in x16 configuration which looks like far more negligible in DDR5 due to having two memory controller per module.
Will be interesting to see how the next batch of DDR5 memory controllers do. We will know by years end if the current Intel controller holds DDR5 back or if its the other way around.
Pretty fair result. I guess with newer technology the difference between the timings won't matter too much or cause greater bottleneck. Even if games will support DDR5 it doesn't seem like having either x8 or x16 would be much of an issue, let alone give better performance boost/deficiency. The next step in games is probably high resolution gaming. Now real question: Seeing that Intel 12th gen supports both DDR4 and DDR5, can we use DDR4 in 12th gen machines? And if so, what kind of advantage or problems will we experience, especially performance wise. You can do this benchmarks when you really need to tho. No rush,
Looking at the timings you showed, it seems that they've locked in the TRFC. That was one of the bigger problems with x16 DDR4, TRFC would be waaaaay higher.
It is not because of the DDR5 but because of the Alder Lake. If you test DDR4 x8 vs x16 on 12700H you will see the same negligible diffrence as the DDR5. Seems like the Adler Lake controller works differently.
ddr5 operates on two 32 bit channels per stick as opposed to a single 64bit channel on ddr4. Doesnt really affect bandwidth but helps in certain situations. Do be aware though vendors will advertise dual and quad channel setups which are the equivalent of single and dual channel ddr4 respectivly
Great informational video. As always; you provide lot of data and evidence, so glad I discovered your channel. Great job and keep them videos coming :)
I've been watching your videos all day as I'm about to buy a cheaper gaming laptop, and honestly, it's like choosing a dog from a shelter.... Maybe you (or somebody) can help me out here... I've decided on an Asus TUF F15, but I don't know if I should choose the 2021 model with an i5-11400H, 16GB DDR4 3200 x16 dual channel and RTX 3060, or the 2022 model with i7-12700H, 8GB DDR5 4800 single (I guess x16..?) but with a 3050Ti... What do you think? Does the better CPU and the newer ram make up for the GPU? My senses tell me that I'll be better off with last year's model... Anyway, thank you for all the helpful and thorough reviews mate! Subscribed.
This was done with an intel system and intel CPUs generally aren't as sensitive to RAM than ryzen chips. Would love a follow up to this on ryzen when they start supporting ddr5.
Might this be because of those frequencies still not being fully optimized by games to take advantage of the x8 more than the x16? I'm no expert, I might be saying some nonsense here, I'm just asking if you think it's a possibility since you know more than me! Good video ✌
It's a good question. You're right that ddr5 will get faster rated MT/s throughout its lifespan. However, I don't think the speed of the ddr5 will drastically change the results observed under the scope of this test. The reason why x16 chips were 'naughty' on ddr4 was because they only had 2 bank groups, so the probability was high of having to hit the same bank group sequentially. Sequential read/writes to the same bank group are slow compared to those operations going to different bank groups each time (regardless of the ram speed). So now with ddr5 x16 having 4 bank groups -- like what the "fast" x8 ddr4 had -- the fundamental problem has been solved that previously caused the tangible difference in ddr4 x16 vs ddr4 x8 👍
Interesting findings Jarrod. Maybe next time when you do a test for AMD 6000 series APU, try dual rank vs single rank DDR5 comparison . All 2RX8 DDR5 for the time being can only be found in 32GB sticks .
Given how long I keep laptops (I'm currently looking to replace my 2010 Vaio), I wouldn't get anything less than 32GB. I don't think the speed would be quite as high on my priority list though. Sure, if it was a desktop and you could specify every single component I would. But with laptops you always have to compromise somewhere. Memory speed is something I would compromise on.
It makes no sense to buy a laptop with DDR5 32 Gb if you don't need these 32 Gb at the moment. This is just a first gen of DDR5 memory with an insane price. If you'll need 32Gb of ram later, you can buy a new gen (gen2, gen3?) of DDR5 ram for much less and upgrade your laptop.
@@Omaks73 I agree too. DDR5 is currently in it infancy so prices are going to be way higher than they should be so buying DDR4 is still a viable option at the moment until prices stabilized.
Great subject! But I still have some question about 8+16or 8+32 in ddr5 memory. The legion slim 7i only allows me to use 8+16 or 8+32, will the performance decrease in ddr5 memory? I have no answer in google.
Great video! Love how indepth you go. Question, I am wanting to buy a laptop with at least a 3070 this year. Should I wait until the rumored 4000 series graphics cards get announced or should i just by last year's models? If so, what would you say are the top 2 or 3 3070 laptops I could buy? Thanks!
In my personal opinion would recommend you to wait, i read news about it and info and there are 2 points en the RTX 4000 that make me take the decision to wait, looks like the best RTX 3000 have a maximum of around 10,000 cuda cores and the best of the RTX 4000 will come with around 18,000 cuda cores and looks like the RTX 4060 (the cheapier and "smaller" of those ones) will have the potency of an RTX 3090, so i would wait, it's better wait to make a better investment that will last longer. It's my personal opinion, it will be better if you do some research.
@@ADAR48 That's desktop rumors but they're also expected to need more power and laptops can't cope so easily with extra heat so it'll limit performance gains. Also the cuda cores jumped significantly from RTX 2000 to 3000 but performance didn't scale linearly with it. I'd guess a RTX 4060 laptop could be around the RTX 3080 laptop performance, but with inflation like it is if you see a bargain RTX 3070 or higher then it may be worth it if you want something sooner. RTX 4000 will not be cheap.
Aren't these new laptops supposed to be quad channel, even with just two DIMMs? I'm pretty sure the Ryzen 6000 series does. That should improve latency as well.
I think the problem we're seeing here is that DDR5 4800 is effectively the slowest that DDR5 memory will ever sit at. It's like trying to compare different kits of DDR4 2133 to see which is the best. Not surprised to see so little of a difference. Would love to see this revisited in the future when DDR5 has matured more and we get some seriously good kits. There are already desktop kits hitting 6400 CL32, so... give it a year at least and I think we'll see some substantial gains going forward. :D
You're right that ddr5 will get faster rated MT/s throughout its lifespan. However, I don't think the speed of the ddr5 will drastically change the results observed under the scope of this test. The reason why x16 chips were 'naughty' on ddr4 was because they only had 2 bank groups, so the probability was high of having to hit the same bank group sequentially. Sequential read/writes to the same bank group are slow compared to those operations going to different bank groups each time (regardless of the ram speed). So now with ddr5 x16 having 4 bank groups -- like what the "fast" x8 ddr4 had -- the fundamental problem has been solved that previously caused the tangible difference in ddr4 x16 vs ddr4 x8 👍
Hello Jarrod's I hope you are well! My name is Carlos, I recently bought a Lenovo Legion 5 Pro Model Laptop and searching the internet I found a video of you talking about it, my laptop came with 16gb of DDR5 and I would like to increase it to 32gb but the ram you recommend is DDR4, here it comes my doubt and excuse my ignorance, being DDR5 (the one that comes from the factory) would there be any problem if I put 2 ram of 16gb of DDR4? Since the DDR5 ones are very difficult to get, please help me with that question so I can order them as soon as possible.
I just purchased a 5i Pro. Glad I don't have to worry about spending an extra $150 to replace the memory, at least not until DDR5 matures enough that it makes more than a 2% difference.
I have tried software like Passmark Rammon. It is free and has reliably told me what memory modules are installed. It tells you everything it can about them even the part number. Once you have the part number you can dig for more information on it. If you don't believe it try it on your desktop. If you built your own PC you might even still have the packaging it came in. Usually that would have a sticker with most if not all of the same information on the sticker on the RAM stick. One thing to note is a x16 module will have fewer chips than a x8 module of the same capacity usually. Think of those RUclips reviews of some Dells that have memory modules that look like they have almost no chips. Now by comparison look at server RAM. It is going to be *loaded* with RAM chips. That is most likely x4 RAM and not something you would see in a typical desktop PC. Keep in mind that servers are typically high performance machines with processors that have a *lot* of processor cores and maybe multiple CPUs. You can imagine that a lot of gamers have wondered what it would be like to run their favorite titles on a thing like that and though it would be overkill it would most certainly not disappoint!
ddr4 x8 = 4 bank groups= gud ddr4 x16 = 2 bank groups = bad but ddr5 x16 = 4 bank groups = gud With ddr4, a chip with x16 meant the internal configuration only had 2 bank groups (as opposed to 4 bank groups in ddr4 x8). Reading/Writing to the same bank group sequentially is slower than going to a different bank group. So with only 2 bank groups, the probability of having to go to the same bank group was high, so the higher latency (slower) read/writes were used more often. With ddr4 x8 and 4 bank groups, the probability of being able to go to a different bank groups was high, so the faster read/writes were predominant. Now with the ddr5 standard, bank groups are doubled compared to ddr4. So even x16 in ddr5 now has 4 bank groups (same # as what gud ddr4 had). 👍
@@DragonOfTheMortalKombat haha. technically it's probably more gud. however, as Jarrod showed in this video, x8 ddr5 with 8 bank groups yielded only 'margin of error' levels of improvement over x16 ddr5 with 4 bank groups. thus, the conclusion seems to be that the threshold for noticeable improvement is just having more than 2 bank groups.
Hey Jarrod, I am thinking about buying a laptop, probably GE76 and I thought it would be a good idea to place it on a stand and put some 120mm fans underneath it for extra circulation of air. Do you think this will be better than a cooling pad?
First of all sorry if my English is bad and make mistakes. I've seen a lot of videos about this topic, all of them reach to the same conclusion: Just buy a normal stand, that increase the performance. The fans only increase it a little and even in some laptops is worse than without turning it on. So just buy a normal cooling pad and save the money!
Dude, why is DDR4 not included in the comparisons in this video? Other sites have found DDR4 might be faster in some applications. Also you didn't include any productivity benchmarks, only gaming, and we know the differences in FPS can be tiny compared with the differences in productivity use cases.
DDR4 vs DDR5 will be in a future video. Currently, I am working on getting comparable laptops to test it on as they aren't interchangeable I need a brand that has decided to make a laptop that gives the option of either rather than just one or the other.
Depends if we ever see x16 16gb sticks I guess! But my guess is it would be far more minimal compared to DDR4 for the reasons noted near the end of the video.
Why do so many games have lower 1% low scores at 1080p? Look at Forza Horizon 5 with ~56 fps lows and 133-138 fps average. The only explanation I can think of is that the data was scrambled and the charts are wrong, because 98-101 for the lows make a lot more sense with those averages.
i just try to look at my ram and there is no ram stick in there but it shows in my loptop that it has a 4gb ram why? And im planning to upgrade to 8gb ram will it stack up or not?
As gigabyte is the sponsor than i want to request gigabyte, KINDLY initiate your laptop product lines sells in india. It been years that gigabyte Non laptop products e.g motherboard and other accessory are available but not the laptops !!! HOPE GIGABYTE is planning laptop sells in india by this year soon !!!
here in Brazil the Legion 5i came with x8 memories but with different panels and much lower than the 165Hz, they came with 120Hz and terrible range of colors
I’m thinking to upgrade the ram in my Lenovo legion 5 pro 2021 because my unit comes with Samsung ram unfortunately,so I'll choose between crucial the one you used and Kingston fury impact,the different between them Kingston is CL20 and crucial CL22,both in the same price range so what you think guys the better choice?
Interested in the answer to this one myself and have been looking around at RAM. I think either would be good and I'm thinking of going for the Kingston Fury Impact, but I tend to cap the FPS with V-Sync so it's running at 60fps so I'm not sure it's even worth it for me (I prefer a more consistent framerate and it keeps the laptop quieter).
Just in case you're still wondering on this one, I highly recommend the Fury Impact with CL20. I've fitted 2x 8gb sticks in my Legion 5 with a 5800H and 3070 and it's making a huge difference - I only have benchmark numbers for Horizon Zero Dawn at the moment, but framerate in the built-in benchmark has gone from 58 to 85 fps at 1440p Ultimate.
If you are above 150 fps (i read even above 60, don't agree... let's go with 100) your eyes can't tell difference. This "might" matter in competitive gamming but outside of that, MEH.
Games with mouse camera control don't feel really smooth at 30fps, but most (console) games are still quite playable at that refresh. I never had a problem with 60fps and usually only uncap framerate for benchmarking so minimal fps stays above 60 and than cap it again. I also never had gsync/freesync, as I'm still using one of the first 1080p monitors or lately mostly a TV, so I always enabled vSync as I hate screen-tearing more than anything. Another reason to go max 60fps, is to save some power (and thus heat, which on laptop seems rather important if you want it to last, as they seem to run quite hot.) Anyhoo, never even played around with a monitor faster, personally I think the uncapped framerate will just annoy me because it's harder to time things .. but maybe it's supersmooth and can't see frames anymore past 120fps? Will see once I get a gamer laptop I guess. ;)
Biggest reason for me to get a beefy laptop is so it has some extra space for years to come. My old desktop pretty much lasted for over 7 years, and still works well... just not everything on Ultra and sometimes not even everything on Very High anymore (i6700k with gtx970 factory OC). I mostly don't use it much anymore because even on idle it eats about 100+Watts... My previous system was even more power hungry and I pretty much paid for the upgrade in savings on elec bill in 2 years, hence looking for a laptop now. :) Hate Hybrid mode as much as you want, but I wish desktops had it.
Hey Jarrod, would you recommend an Acer Nitro 5 ryzen 7 3060 now? In my country it's available for 1100 dollars and the closest option to it is an 6 core 3060 f15 for 1050 usd. The omen you compared it to last year is 200 dollars more expensive and the legion is 400 dollars more.
Jarrod reviewed the Nitro 5 (2021) and wasn't very pleased with it. I'd recommend you wait and save more cash to get an Omen or Legion. They're worth it.
Hi Jarrod, I understand that the 16GB stock ram in Legion 5 Pro (2021) is running slow, may I ask you know if 32GB stock ram would perform better (as good as 16 GB new ram in your previous video)? There was this option for my country and it is on sale, not sure if I should get it.
Hey Jarrod, can you make a comparison between Acer Helios 300 and Legion 5 pro. Most people are getting confused with these two laptop. Some say Helios outperform legion and some otherssays legion outperform Helios. But we know for sure, that your words are the final judgement.
Hi, I've searched but not found a reliable answer. Can the Lenovo Legion 5 Pro (AMD Ryzen 7 / 3070 / 32GB 16ACH6H 82JQ00T0MH ). It comes with a DDR4-3200. Now here is the question: Can I upgrade to: Crucial RAM CT2K16G48C40S5 32GB Kit (2x16GB) DDR5 4800MHz CL40? Does it add performance?
No, you cannot use DDR4 in a DDR5 laptop or vice versa, the sticks are physically incompatible. More info here: jarrods.tech/can-you-upgrade-a-laptop-from-ddr4-to-ddr5-memory/
People want to forget that Crucial Balistix DDR4 3200, SoDimm for laptop, have FANTASTIC lantency of CL16 for 16 GB stick !!! It is only 100 euro more expensive, of course, then CL22 sticks.
With the release of th awesome new dell 15 i7 12th gen I would really like if you could review it...... because I can't choose between legion 5 and this one especially in gaming
We'll investigate single and dual channel with DDR5 soon!
Not yet.
Hello does this laptop with RTX 3050 ti support 32GB RAM?
@@vikasgupta7438 no, not yet, it's using upgraded service, pay $60 for the support of up to 48GB DDR5 or 40GB DDR4
april fools
@Jan Dominic Detablan you can use something like Hardware Info (HWiNFO) to look at your system's specs. Under Memory select a module and look for "Number of bank groups" (it should be 8 or 16). for the ranks look for "Number of ranks (it should be 1 or 2). You can also search the part number online to confirm it.
Wow exactly what I was waiting for. Seems like DDR5 x16 is much better than DDR4 x16 was! Thank goodness 😂
im pretty sure ddr6 x16 will be much better than ddr5 x16 too :D
could also be due to newer, more powerful CPU and as a result less bottleneck of the GPU
Waiting for DDR15 x16 vs DDR15 x8
question is will they be in stock anytime soon lol
DDR 5 seems to work better with x16 memory than DDR 4 did. That said, DDR 5 timings are super loose, especially on laptops. Maybe x8 memory would allow for tighter timings and better latencies, but we likely won't see that for a while.
Yeah, and even those brands which let DDR4 laptops to overclock DRAM timings (e.g. Eluktronics/XMG) have the BIOS disabled for DDR5, possibly because DDR5 SODIMM it's not yet mature technology to do that. I've read DDR5 would allow per-stick Voltage regulations, probably the best scenario is to keep everything automatic and do not allow any user interaction for this. But this means JEDEC only speeds out there.
Most laptops will just run DDR4 RAM at their JEDEC timings - they'll ignore whatever profile that comes loaded on the sticks. I believe there are different tiers of JEDEC timings for DDR5, but whether a laptop will default to the most performant profile is a guessing game.
it's the same every new generation. i went from DD3 1866Mhz, DD4 2666 Mhz later on for my Ryzen build 3600 Mhz and now my laptop with DDR5 with 4800 Mhz have as you mentioned looser timings. it's just how it is. but real world latency doesn't really increase but bandwidth increase significantly.
Wow, glad that Mr. Jarrod got sponsored 👍 Your channel is getting more famous
Your dedication is starting to get paid off 👍👍
Ohh and, thank you for the DDR5 RAM investigation, Mr. Jarrod
10:32 that looks awkward because I use ad blocker so video overlays don't appear.
We are seeing the same thing here. For the first time in several generations you can still get great performance running a single 16 GB stick. Of course the same cannot quite be said about a single 8.
Damn, I love this man!
Thanks a lot Jarrod, was waiting for this video to drop!
I think the architecture difference in DDR5 Memory is making this much less of an issue. Unlike previous DDR memory, DDR5 has 2 memory controller per module in 2x32 bit configuration. That's why 2 stick DDR5 can run in quad channel. In DDR4 memory, a single memory controller faces delays while accessing multiple memory banks in x16 configuration which looks like far more negligible in DDR5 due to having two memory controller per module.
A big thank you for including MSFS in your bank of test games. I wish more reviewers did... I'm looking at you Hardware Unboxed.
Awesome video, you're definitely the one guy in this realm that digs this deep into these nuances.
Thank You Jarrod!!... seems like this year we are fine with x16 over x8, thank God 😊
Thanks jarrod. I was looking for this comparison since yesterday
"Massive" 4 % difference.
Glad to see you getting more sponsor spots.
Cheers!
Appreciate all the hard work investigating and reporting on this. Very helpful info. 👍
Here we go baby! Was waiting for this to drop!
Truly Next level of Laptop review, mostly watch this channel. Compared to another channel because they're not as detail as Jarrod did
Will be interesting to see how the next batch of DDR5 memory controllers do.
We will know by years end if the current Intel controller holds DDR5 back or if its the other way around.
Pretty fair result. I guess with newer technology the difference between the timings won't matter too much or cause greater bottleneck. Even if games will support DDR5 it doesn't seem like having either x8 or x16 would be much of an issue, let alone give better performance boost/deficiency. The next step in games is probably high resolution gaming.
Now real question: Seeing that Intel 12th gen supports both DDR4 and DDR5, can we use DDR4 in 12th gen machines? And if so, what kind of advantage or problems will we experience, especially performance wise. You can do this benchmarks when you really need to tho. No rush,
There are cheaper laptop models with ddr4, but they also come with a totally different design so an actual fair comparison will be harder to get.
Would like to see this with Ryzen 6000.
Jarod's channels on 🔥 📛 in 2022, great content as always.
Just subbed. Incredible reviews. So thorough and easy to understand.
Looking at the timings you showed, it seems that they've locked in the TRFC. That was one of the bigger problems with x16 DDR4, TRFC would be waaaaay higher.
Thanks. Your video saved me a lot of headache :)
Very interesting stuff.
Hi Jerrod hope your doing well. Great vid. Hope you can get hands on unknown brands and review Thunderobot laptops for your Asian viewers. :)
Thanks for this, literally waiting for this
How do I check without opening my computer? I thought there was a software but I cannot find it
It is not because of the DDR5 but because of the Alder Lake. If you test DDR4 x8 vs x16 on 12700H you will see the same negligible diffrence as the DDR5. Seems like the Adler Lake controller works differently.
Thank you :)
I read somewhere that apparently DDR5 can have dual-channel on a single stick (not sure if regular desktop DIMMs or even laptops SODIMMs)
ddr5 operates on two 32 bit channels per stick as opposed to a single 64bit channel on ddr4. Doesnt really affect bandwidth but helps in certain situations. Do be aware though vendors will advertise dual and quad channel setups which are the equivalent of single and dual channel ddr4 respectivly
Great informational video. As always; you provide lot of data and evidence, so glad I discovered your channel. Great job and keep them videos coming :)
Lenovo websites still offering only the 3050 TI and no other customization with the Legion 5i Pro gen 7….😭
In India they are stuck on 3060 2021 modal only,
That's very disappointing 😭
I've been watching your videos all day as I'm about to buy a cheaper gaming laptop, and honestly, it's like choosing a dog from a shelter....
Maybe you (or somebody) can help me out here... I've decided on an Asus TUF F15, but I don't know if I should choose the 2021 model with an i5-11400H, 16GB DDR4 3200 x16 dual channel and RTX 3060, or the 2022 model with i7-12700H, 8GB DDR5 4800 single (I guess x16..?) but with a 3050Ti... What do you think? Does the better CPU and the newer ram make up for the GPU? My senses tell me that I'll be better off with last year's model...
Anyway, thank you for all the helpful and thorough reviews mate! Subscribed.
This was done with an intel system and intel CPUs generally aren't as sensitive to RAM than ryzen chips. Would love a follow up to this on ryzen when they start supporting ddr5.
This is discussed towards the end, but I doubt it matters.
Might this be because of those frequencies still not being fully optimized by games to take advantage of the x8 more than the x16? I'm no expert, I might be saying some nonsense here, I'm just asking if you think it's a possibility since you know more than me! Good video ✌
It's a good question. You're right that ddr5 will get faster rated MT/s throughout its lifespan.
However, I don't think the speed of the ddr5 will drastically change the results observed under the scope of this test.
The reason why x16 chips were 'naughty' on ddr4 was because they only had 2 bank groups, so the probability was high of having to hit the same bank group sequentially. Sequential read/writes to the same bank group are slow compared to those operations going to different bank groups each time (regardless of the ram speed). So now with ddr5 x16 having 4 bank groups -- like what the "fast" x8 ddr4 had -- the fundamental problem has been solved that previously caused the tangible difference in ddr4 x16 vs ddr4 x8 👍
malwarebytes blocks the sponsor link as trojan...
Very useful video sir, thank u alot.
Interesting findings Jarrod. Maybe next time when you do a test for AMD 6000 series APU, try dual rank vs single rank DDR5 comparison . All 2RX8 DDR5 for the time being can only be found in 32GB sticks .
Great content. Can you test differences in single vs dual channel ddr5 next.
imagine not being in Jarrod's Tech discord and not knowing that this vid is planned 😉
I think the amd version more susceptible to these ram problems last year... Did Ryzen 6000s also immune to these DDR5 differences...
Given how long I keep laptops (I'm currently looking to replace my 2010 Vaio), I wouldn't get anything less than 32GB. I don't think the speed would be quite as high on my priority list though.
Sure, if it was a desktop and you could specify every single component I would. But with laptops you always have to compromise somewhere. Memory speed is something I would compromise on.
It makes no sense to buy a laptop with DDR5 32 Gb if you don't need these 32 Gb at the moment. This is just a first gen of DDR5 memory with an insane price. If you'll need 32Gb of ram later, you can buy a new gen (gen2, gen3?) of DDR5 ram for much less and upgrade your laptop.
@@Omaks73 I agree too. DDR5 is currently in it infancy so prices are going to be way higher than they should be so buying DDR4 is still a viable option at the moment until prices stabilized.
@@khangvinh4656 in my country ddr5 ram is like twice the price compared to ddr4 ram :(
Great subject! But I still have some question about 8+16or 8+32 in ddr5 memory. The legion slim 7i only allows me to use 8+16 or 8+32, will the performance decrease in ddr5 memory? I have no answer in google.
In ddr5 2x8GB sticks are always x16, 2x16GB stick are always x8, and 2x32GB sticks are dual rank x8.
G'day moite
Razer 5300$ Blade 17 2022 uses 32GB x16 ddr5
However My 2021 uses x8r2 32GB ddr4
( Sweden Price and stock )
Both models have Samsung Ram
Hey Jarrod, can you do a review of ideapad gaming 3 with rtx 3060 and Ryzen 5600h
Great video! Love how indepth you go. Question, I am wanting to buy a laptop with at least a 3070 this year. Should I wait until the rumored 4000 series graphics cards get announced or should i just by last year's models? If so, what would you say are the top 2 or 3 3070 laptops I could buy? Thanks!
In my personal opinion would recommend you to wait, i read news about it and info and there are 2 points en the RTX 4000 that make me take the decision to wait, looks like the best RTX 3000 have a maximum of around 10,000 cuda cores and the best of the RTX 4000 will come with around 18,000 cuda cores and looks like the RTX 4060 (the cheapier and "smaller" of those ones) will have the potency of an RTX 3090, so i would wait, it's better wait to make a better investment that will last longer.
It's my personal opinion, it will be better if you do some research.
@@ADAR48 lmao this is fantasy land dude. imagine if the 3060 had the performance of the 2080ti.
@@michaelbrewer3814 That's why i said to make research, we obviously don't know the real performance until it go out to sale
@@ADAR48 That's desktop rumors but they're also expected to need more power and laptops can't cope so easily with extra heat so it'll limit performance gains. Also the cuda cores jumped significantly from RTX 2000 to 3000 but performance didn't scale linearly with it. I'd guess a RTX 4060 laptop could be around the RTX 3080 laptop performance, but with inflation like it is if you see a bargain RTX 3070 or higher then it may be worth it if you want something sooner. RTX 4000 will not be cheap.
Aren't these new laptops supposed to be quad channel, even with just two DIMMs? I'm pretty sure the Ryzen 6000 series does. That should improve latency as well.
Thx! This is good news since im sure most laptops will come shipped with x16.
I think the problem we're seeing here is that DDR5 4800 is effectively the slowest that DDR5 memory will ever sit at. It's like trying to compare different kits of DDR4 2133 to see which is the best. Not surprised to see so little of a difference. Would love to see this revisited in the future when DDR5 has matured more and we get some seriously good kits. There are already desktop kits hitting 6400 CL32, so... give it a year at least and I think we'll see some substantial gains going forward. :D
You're right that ddr5 will get faster rated MT/s throughout its lifespan.
However, I don't think the speed of the ddr5 will drastically change the results observed under the scope of this test.
The reason why x16 chips were 'naughty' on ddr4 was because they only had 2 bank groups, so the probability was high of having to hit the same bank group sequentially. Sequential read/writes to the same bank group are slow compared to those operations going to different bank groups each time (regardless of the ram speed). So now with ddr5 x16 having 4 bank groups -- like what the "fast" x8 ddr4 had -- the fundamental problem has been solved that previously caused the tangible difference in ddr4 x16 vs ddr4 x8 👍
At least this year the chip shortages won't cause a performance drop
🙏
Hello Jarrod's I hope you are well! My name is Carlos, I recently bought a Lenovo Legion 5 Pro Model Laptop and searching the internet I found a video of you talking about it, my laptop came with 16gb of DDR5 and I would like to increase it to 32gb but the ram you recommend is DDR4, here it comes my doubt and excuse my ignorance, being DDR5 (the one that comes from the factory) would there be any problem if I put 2 ram of 16gb of DDR4? Since the DDR5 ones are very difficult to get, please help me with that question so I can order them as soon as possible.
I just purchased a 5i Pro. Glad I don't have to worry about spending an extra $150 to replace the memory, at least not until DDR5 matures enough that it makes more than a 2% difference.
Before making a video comparing something you should explain what x8 and x16 means what is single/dual rank etc. Not everyone is a tech nerd.
Great content as always. Keep at it :)
Jarrod, when will you release the full review for this laptop?
Friday.
@@JarrodsTech thanks for the answer!
Details are awsome. I like how you say all details👍👍👍
Great VIdeo!
I have tried software like Passmark Rammon. It is free and has reliably told me what memory modules are installed. It tells you everything it can about them even the part number. Once you have the part number you can dig for more information on it. If you don't believe it try it on your desktop. If you built your own PC you might even still have the packaging it came in. Usually that would have a sticker with most if not all of the same information on the sticker on the RAM stick. One thing to note is a x16 module will have fewer chips than a x8 module of the same capacity usually. Think of those RUclips reviews of some Dells that have memory modules that look like they have almost no chips. Now by comparison look at server RAM. It is going to be *loaded* with RAM chips. That is most likely x4 RAM and not something you would see in a typical desktop PC. Keep in mind that servers are typically high performance machines with processors that have a *lot* of processor cores and maybe multiple CPUs. You can imagine that a lot of gamers have wondered what it would be like to run their favorite titles on a thing like that and though it would be overkill it would most certainly not disappoint!
Nice work Jarrod!!! I wonder if the DDR 5 timings were tighter we would see more of a difference 🤔. Very interesting thank you!!!
Interesting finding you have there sir, know I'm confuse how the difference gone in one generation leap 🤔
ddr4 x8 = 4 bank groups= gud
ddr4 x16 = 2 bank groups = bad
but
ddr5 x16 = 4 bank groups = gud
With ddr4, a chip with x16 meant the internal configuration only had 2 bank groups (as opposed to 4 bank groups in ddr4 x8).
Reading/Writing to the same bank group sequentially is slower than going to a different bank group. So with only 2 bank groups, the probability of having to go to the same bank group was high, so the higher latency (slower) read/writes were used more often.
With ddr4 x8 and 4 bank groups, the probability of being able to go to a different bank groups was high, so the faster read/writes were predominant.
Now with the ddr5 standard, bank groups are doubled compared to ddr4. So even x16 in ddr5 now has 4 bank groups (same # as what gud ddr4 had). 👍
@@60DollarCodger So DDR5 x8 is very gud, right? I mean 8 bank groups.
@@DragonOfTheMortalKombat haha. technically it's probably more gud. however, as Jarrod showed in this video, x8 ddr5 with 8 bank groups yielded only 'margin of error' levels of improvement over x16 ddr5 with 4 bank groups.
thus, the conclusion seems to be that the threshold for noticeable improvement is just having more than 2 bank groups.
Can you test 16GB with 2 sticks vs 16GB with 1 stick with DDR5? Unlike ddr4, a single stick of ddr5 runs in dual channel
this.... is great news, learning more and more as i bingewatch all ur vids lol
Each stick runs in dual channel on its own and has twice the banks, so yeah way less sensitive than DDR4.
Hey Jarrod, I am thinking about buying a laptop, probably GE76 and I thought it would be a good idea to place it on a stand and put some 120mm fans underneath it for extra circulation of air. Do you think this will be better than a cooling pad?
First of all sorry if my English is bad and make mistakes. I've seen a lot of videos about this topic, all of them reach to the same conclusion: Just buy a normal stand, that increase the performance. The fans only increase it a little and even in some laptops is worse than without turning it on. So just buy a normal cooling pad and save the money!
DDR5 still needs plenty of maturing. I'm sure in a few years we'll see a good performance bump
Ahhh DDR5, what an alive to be time😶
this is great news thanks jarrod
Dude, why is DDR4 not included in the comparisons in this video? Other sites have found DDR4 might be faster in some applications. Also you didn't include any productivity benchmarks, only gaming, and we know the differences in FPS can be tiny compared with the differences in productivity use cases.
DDR4 vs DDR5 will be in a future video. Currently, I am working on getting comparable laptops to test it on as they aren't interchangeable I need a brand that has decided to make a laptop that gives the option of either rather than just one or the other.
I'm wondering if 16gb of x8 DDR4-3200 is able to compete/outperform 16gb of x16 DDR5-4800..🤔
probably not
These tests show x16 DDR5-4800 = X8 DDR5-3800, so how would any type of DDR4-3200 have a chance?
Oh yeah, makes sense. Sorry idk what's with me just now that I asked a pointless question 😅.
Depends if we ever see x16 16gb sticks I guess! But my guess is it would be far more minimal compared to DDR4 for the reasons noted near the end of the video.
Why do so many games have lower 1% low scores at 1080p? Look at Forza Horizon 5 with ~56 fps lows and 133-138 fps average. The only explanation I can think of is that the data was scrambled and the charts are wrong, because 98-101 for the lows make a lot more sense with those averages.
AT 5 AM SO DIDNT GET ANY OF THIS
ddr4 x8 = 4 bank groups = gud
ddr4 x16 = 2 bank groups = bad
but, now with ddr5...
ddr5 x16 = 4 bank groups = gud
Basically the exact same performance
the tiny differences could easily be the higher capacity rather than speed
So basically not really noticeable on high res
Greetings from Germany :) youve many german fans
Can we use 1rx8 with 2rx8? Or will it cause any blue screen issue?
To get 2rx8 on ddr5 you need 2 sticks of 32GB
Great video, really informational with the stats. Thanks!
So beside them being overpriced, there's no way to know if we're buying a x8 or x16 memory laptop? Really? No brand cares to show it clearly?
Should you buy extended 3 year warranty when you buy a new laptop? I.e. Legion 5 Pro
Im Germany U get 3 years Premium for free in Lenovo Shop dont Know If it was a Promotion
Hello Jarrod ! Can u make a comparison ddr5 vs ddr4 ?
i just try to look at my ram and there is no ram stick in there but it shows in my loptop that it has a 4gb ram why?
And im planning to upgrade to 8gb ram will it stack up or not?
wait what, I have a legion 5 pro, how can I tell if its got the crappy RAM? Also, mine is only 3200MHz
Help! I bought the Strix G17 just recently and it has this ram Jarrod is referring to. Was I bamboozled? Its ddr5 two 8gb rams
As gigabyte is the sponsor than i want to request gigabyte, KINDLY initiate your laptop product lines sells in india. It been years that gigabyte Non laptop products e.g motherboard and other accessory are available but not the laptops !!!
HOPE GIGABYTE is planning laptop sells in india by this year soon !!!
Can I upgrade Legion 5 pro 2021 with ddr5 memory?
no, cpu does not support ddr5 and the slot is physically different
You can upgrade to the 2022 version then yes you can.
Ok thnx man for the advice I will probably stick with 2021 model
here in Brazil the Legion 5i came with x8 memories but with different panels and much lower than the 165Hz, they came with 120Hz and terrible range of colors
I’m thinking to upgrade the ram in my Lenovo legion 5 pro 2021 because my unit comes with Samsung ram unfortunately,so I'll choose between crucial the one you used and Kingston fury impact,the different between them Kingston is CL20 and crucial CL22,both in the same price range
so what you think guys the better choice?
Interested in the answer to this one myself and have been looking around at RAM. I think either would be good and I'm thinking of going for the Kingston Fury Impact, but I tend to cap the FPS with V-Sync so it's running at 60fps so I'm not sure it's even worth it for me (I prefer a more consistent framerate and it keeps the laptop quieter).
Just in case you're still wondering on this one, I highly recommend the Fury Impact with CL20. I've fitted 2x 8gb sticks in my Legion 5 with a 5800H and 3070 and it's making a huge difference - I only have benchmark numbers for Horizon Zero Dawn at the moment, but framerate in the built-in benchmark has gone from 58 to 85 fps at 1440p Ultimate.
If you are above 150 fps (i read even above 60, don't agree... let's go with 100) your eyes can't tell difference. This "might" matter in competitive gamming but outside of that, MEH.
Games with mouse camera control don't feel really smooth at 30fps, but most (console) games are still quite playable at that refresh.
I never had a problem with 60fps and usually only uncap framerate for benchmarking so minimal fps stays above 60 and than cap it again. I also never had gsync/freesync, as I'm still using one of the first 1080p monitors or lately mostly a TV, so I always enabled vSync as I hate screen-tearing more than anything. Another reason to go max 60fps, is to save some power (and thus heat, which on laptop seems rather important if you want it to last, as they seem to run quite hot.)
Anyhoo, never even played around with a monitor faster, personally I think the uncapped framerate will just annoy me because it's harder to time things .. but maybe it's supersmooth and can't see frames anymore past 120fps? Will see once I get a gamer laptop I guess. ;)
@@CommDante good point m8
Biggest reason for me to get a beefy laptop is so it has some extra space for years to come. My old desktop pretty much lasted for over 7 years, and still works well... just not everything on Ultra and sometimes not even everything on Very High anymore (i6700k with gtx970 factory OC). I mostly don't use it much anymore because even on idle it eats about 100+Watts... My previous system was even more power hungry and I pretty much paid for the upgrade in savings on elec bill in 2 years, hence looking for a laptop now. :)
Hate Hybrid mode as much as you want, but I wish desktops had it.
Hey Jarrod, would you recommend an Acer Nitro 5 ryzen 7 3060 now?
In my country it's available for 1100 dollars and the closest option to it is an 6 core 3060 f15 for 1050 usd. The omen you compared it to last year is 200 dollars more expensive and the legion is 400 dollars more.
Nitro 5 is a better option if you can manage that ugly design. Buz you have 2 more cores and a better processor.
Acer Nitros break fast
Jarrod reviewed the Nitro 5 (2021) and wasn't very pleased with it. I'd recommend you wait and save more cash to get an Omen or Legion. They're worth it.
Hi Jarrod,
I understand that the 16GB stock ram in Legion 5 Pro (2021) is running slow, may I ask you know if 32GB stock ram would perform better (as good as 16 GB new ram in your previous video)? There was this option for my country and it is on sale, not sure if I should get it.
Hey Jarrod, can you make a comparison between Acer Helios 300 and Legion 5 pro. Most people are getting confused with these two laptop. Some say Helios outperform legion and some otherssays legion outperform Helios. But we know for sure, that your words are the final judgement.
When is blade 14 review coming out? Looking forward to it!
Hi, I've searched but not found a reliable answer. Can the Lenovo Legion 5 Pro (AMD Ryzen 7 / 3070 / 32GB 16ACH6H 82JQ00T0MH ). It comes with a DDR4-3200. Now here is the question: Can I upgrade to: Crucial RAM CT2K16G48C40S5 32GB Kit (2x16GB) DDR5 4800MHz CL40? Does it add performance?
No, you cannot use DDR4 in a DDR5 laptop or vice versa, the sticks are physically incompatible. More info here: jarrods.tech/can-you-upgrade-a-laptop-from-ddr4-to-ddr5-memory/
@@JarrodsTech thx
People want to forget that Crucial Balistix DDR4 3200, SoDimm for laptop, have FANTASTIC lantency of CL16 for 16 GB stick !!! It is only 100 euro more expensive, of course, then CL22 sticks.
With the release of th awesome new dell 15 i7 12th gen I would really like if you could review it...... because I can't choose between legion 5 and this one especially in gaming
Waiting on Dell to send it.
seeing that peformance luckily nobody wants to play watch dogs legion anyway, wd2 is still the best
Could there a difference of x8 and x16 memory in terms of its durability/longevity?
Hey will upgrading to rx8 dual rank provide any improvement if so pls say how much percent as u haven't made a video on ddr5 dual rank or single rank
To get a dual rank ddr5 you need 2 sticks of 32GB
So when it comes to laptop ram/sodimms, how do I identify x8 vs x16?
8 chips on one side means x8 and 4 chips on one side means it's x16...?
Man is DDR 5 based on pci 4.0 . Throputh on line is much more based on 6500 xt with 8 lines