@@podemosurss8316 Yes, I’m well aware. The reason I brought it up was that it’s not the kind of statement most people would think of as a compliment. But it fit perfectly in this situation and to this person.
While it is a great line T'Lin's typical Vulcan dead pan delivery of "By the transitive property, I to must be Vulcan as a MF" just sent me for a few seconds
Seeing T'lin come to terms with herself as a Vulcan despite what the others of her people said is heartwarming. And I appreciate the acknowledgement of the sheer power of vulcan emotions. The extreme emotions T'lin was bottling up and hiding beneath her exterior being broadcast by her telepathy and causing the crew to just lose their minds is a great look at what un-restrained vulcans could be like.
@@jiado6893It depends. Most Vulcans can only do touch-based telepathy aka the Mind Meld. A portion have no skill at all. But there are a few that are so strong they can do broadcast telepathy. T'lynn may be one of the rarer strong Vulcan telepaths...and never knew it until now.
I think Vulcan emotions probably could be handled but since they suppress them and don't grow up to figure out how to manage them healthily, they have no clue how which causes the problems. For a possible sign of evidence look at the Romulans who genetically are nearly identical to Vulcans who while still reserved can display emotions without going off the handlebars.
Yet that syndrome undermines the emotional suppression conditioning which is possibly the most definitive characteristic of Vulcan culture. Therefore, it is logical to state that one so afflicted may not be "Vulcan enough" in reference to their culture rather than their species.
Gabrielle Ruiz is brilliant, portraying emotional story with the sound of a monotone Vulcan... no easy feat. and Tawny Newsome is dropping f-bombs like an advanced member of The National Lampoon. This is some high level stuff.
Damn Spock should have asked Mariner to do a eulogy for his father at his funeral. "What can I say about Ambassador Sarek? Some remember him for his intellectual brilliance, some recall his tireless efforts towards securing galactic peace, but I think that all who knew him can agree, above all else he was Vulcan as a motherfucker. Thank you."
@@Raguleader You're probably lowballing that. Probably other adoptees from the Andorians, Tellarites, Orions, probably a Klingon or something too. Sarek secretly ran an orphanage.
Honestly, who better to help comfort T’Lyn than someone who is essentially her but human? Because T’Lyn is very much a Vulcan mirror to Beckett Mariner. Prone to emotional outbursts, values life over protocol, follows her instincts, acts unconventionally… they are just that similar. That, and Mariner did undergo a similar treatment last season and so she spoke from experience.
Exactly what I thought watching this scene. Well and earlier as well, when she was introduced. Her "I hope they know I don´t give a shit" scene in the meditation room back on her old ship.
T'lyn: If I was human, I would say I will complete my tasks when I %$# get around to it, Captain. Freeman: Since you are not human, I will not have you tossed in the brig.
@@sarahberkner If T’Lyn were to consider it a common colloquialism among Mariner and the Cerritos crew, then she might see the logic in using it when around them.
Trek has a history of pushing the obscenity boundary, and this was another stone laid on that path. "If I were human, I believe I would say: 'go, to, hell'... if I were human" - Spock, ST6 "Ohhh, shit" - Data, ST:G
I love how respectfully Mariner alluded to T'Lyn being sad. Instead of saying 'you look/feel sad', which would seem insulting, she said she was 'close' to 'expressing' sadness.
@@hezras8074 I particularly like the fact that Mariner continued to prove how good she is at inspiring others. After getting her PTSD-triggering promotion for that very reason.
3 things interest me in this 1. Mariners attempt to help Tylin seems to revolve around her own issues as well as Tylins 2. In an earlier clip Tendi shown to be different to the crew & rather than getting angry over emotional instability, is instead desperate to befriend Tylin. Kind of makes me thinks she's put too much pressure on herself to befriend people in what I'm assuming is an attempt to rewrite how Orions are perceived. 3. Tylins complaint about her captain is interesting as if you see the clip of her transferral he makes no claim that Tylin is being punished, that's a conclusion she seems to jump to (though he doesn't correct or attempt to deny what she says). He doesn't mention anything about her being either banished or damaged either & I suspect in later episodes there'll be a confrobtation/revelation around this.
I noticed that about T'Lyn's captain too. I think he simply judged that she would fit in better on a Federation ship. The idea of her being punished or banished just for being different ignores a major aspect of Vulcan philosophy - Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.
I remember that part, I suppose he didn't say it was a punishment. But T'Lyn said to him that she saw it as one, and he sure as hell didn't correct that statement. Edit: I rewatched the scene. So he basically tells her he's reassigning her. T'lyn basically says, "hey I don't think I deserve this punishment" and he says, "and that outburst is why I'm doing it." It definitely feels like he's punishing her in that moment.
@@jigglyluigi5102 He response is ambiguous (for a vulcan), but it could also be taken as him denying her assertion of it being a punishment. For a vulcan, she made an emotional outburst where she jumped to a drastic conclusion about his decision.
The last two episodes have done wonders in making T'Lyn a full character and welcome addition to the show and the gang. Gabrielle Ruiz really knocked it out of the park in this scene given the difficulty of acting Vulcan. Really could feel legit sadness coming from T'Lyn despite the Vulcan control of emotions.
Mariner was so uplifting and supportive, here. The last time she did that, at least on the ship, she received that downward-spiral, PTSD-surfacing promotion, yet here she is, being so nurturing, anyway. Furthermore, she's out-logicing Vulcans while under the psychic effects of T'Lyn's condition. So much growth and maturity.
I like how honest they wrote T’Lyn in the past two episodes (this and the last): Willing to admit some Orion men are pleasing to look at, cursing, saying ‘what is up’… She’s probably one of my favorite character simply because of how well the writers were able to stick with how they intended to makeup her character. She’s supposed to be somebody who’s ‘emotional’ by Vulcan standards, but is still a Vulcan nonetheless, who maintains a collected demeanor. That’s exactly what they managed to keep going for her and they’ve not only done it well so far but also did it in a way that kept the depth of T’Lyn’s character from being lost in the process.
Cap Sokal may be doing the Vulcan version of 'tough love'. He sends T'Lyn to a Federation ship to experience where these emotions lead, it may be he hopes that she is going to 'completed' by exposure to an exterior influence. That T'Lyn perceives his actions in a light that did not occur is perhaps a symptom, and not the cause. Wow. I'm sounding like her when I write.
0:08 That statement is EXACTLY why Worf would get kicked around so much in TNG. It was to show us, the audience, that whatever problem the Entreprise was facing at the time was NOT going to be solved trough the use of force. They would have to think and investigate their way out of it. The exact OPPOSITE of DS9, where with the Dominion War in full force, it was a show where EVERY problem had to be solved by force. And Worf would fit right in.
After four seasons of this show, anything more will be just gravy. This, to me, feels the most faithful to the original shows Star Trek has been in a VERY long time. Sure it's goofy and silly, but even in the jokes there's a love for the lore and the ideals the shows are built on.
T’Lyn was such a great addition to the cast and Mariner going from being insufferable in season one to an empathetic and brutally loyal friend is great character development.
I haven't watched much of "Star Trek: Lower Decks" (ST:LD) but clips like this make me want to watch the entire series. Amidst the humor, there are also times when they hit you with strongly emotional scenes like this one and the clip where Mariner admits she "I just want to be an Ensign". This scene makes me hope that when ST:LD ends they use the character of T'Lyn in another series.
T’Lyn being able to effectively express feelings of shame and sorrow despite her dispassionate tone is pretty great in this heightened, comedic portrayal of a Vulcan, as they aren’t truly emotionless as others would believe, rather they have more, muted and subdued ways of expressing emotion.
I always liked to think that Vulcans are not devoid of emotions so much as they have a very firm grip on them which is how they are portrayed in this series. Like when T'Lyn talked to the Vulcan captain, he doesn't lose his temper but you can tell he is angry.
@@spectre111 This appears true in other instances in Star Trek. In a recent example from Strange New Worlds, Spock receives a barrage of disparaging remarks from the mother of a Vulcan woman he prioritized Star Fleet over and divorced with her acceptance. Her tone is calm, but she is expressing anger at her daughter being left as if personally insulted by her daughter, who is of high status, being refused, much less by a human hybrid. However, while she is calm, she still is acting on emotion to shame Spock and when Spock excuses himself to use the restroom, obviously upset and needing time to compose himself, she is completely oblivious to this and insults what she believes is a weak bladder, something she boasts regular Vulcan’s not having. Simply being, or at least, acting calm doesn’t make Vulcan’s emotionally intelligent or mature, just able to suppress the physical symptoms of being emotional. But various Vulcan’s depicted throughout the franchise conflate being able to pretend to be emotionless as maturity, which at worst can make them lack a sense of empathy and why characters like T’Lyn or Spock work so well, two very intelligent beings learning wisdom through experience.
@@Chaotic-po8oj That's what Bendii syndrome is to a Vulcan, a kind of dementia. Sarek had it in TNG. Although I'm not sure if this episode confirmed that T'Lyn is suffering from it, or whether they were just comparing her emotional turmoil to it.
@@TheOiseauthats the impression i got. Its less her suffering it early, and more so a sinilar result of her current emotional state. If anything i say it just happens in older vulcans because of the natural decline of brain functions leading to maintaining the strict and rigid stoicism practiced by the vulcans extrmely hard. T’lyn tho just has a hard time with her emotions in general so it hits as a result.
@@TheOiseauI dont know if its an official diagnosis, but T'lyn's experimentation and struggle with emotional control could indeed lead to a similar effect when she's conflicted. Bendii syndrome is characterized by loss of emotional control, so it's logical that a general lack of or struggle to emotional control could lead to similar effects.
Mariner and T'Lyn were always similar in the same way Boimler and Ma'Ah (the lower decks Klingon) were similar. Mariner taking this "man fuck the captain. What the hell does he know!?" Really shows that similarity. T'Lyn wasn't pushished for her disobedience, she was transferred to somwhere her talents can be appreciated properly. It's a misunderstanding between Command and Lower Decks of where their strengths truly lie. Which is the same problems Mariner has.
I don't know. "Your inability to control your emotions is a liability." Key word there "liability", or "one that causes a lot of problems or embarrassment". That really DOES imply that he didn't get it.
Man, the moment I saw T'lyn on Vulcan Lower Decks, I thought she was an absolute perfect match for the Cerritos, and until now, I absolutely loved her interaction with the rest of the crew, she did fit in immensely, and I hope she became a main cast, and let's agree that Lower Decks is awesome.
Tendi was my favorite character for quite a while, and I still love her . . . but as soon as T'Lyn was introduced, she became my new fave. I was praying to the Great Bird of the Galaxy that she would somehow end up joining the Cerritos crew, and the Great Bird granted my wish.
That gang of five at the table seems like the nucleus of a crew to me. Medical / science, engineering / operations, counselor / science, helm / watch officer, captain / watch officer.
I get the sense the Lower Decks writers had been trying to _not_ have a token Vulcan in this series, but token or not, they always seem to make any Star Trek series better.
This has to represent my favorite thing about mariner, she cannot handle or accept people hating themselves or whatever the closest thing vulcans can have
I don’t believe her captain ever thought she was flawed. He just determined that her temperament would be of better service in Starfleet where she could shine rather than be restricted.
Yeah, he didn't present it as a punishment or anything like that. I think when she asked him if she's being punished, he just said "you thinking that is why I think this reassignment is necessary"
I was under the impression tlin was sent to starfleet because she was exceptionally talented and could thrive with additional freedom a non-vulcan environment granted.
I have to say the animation for this show is very detailed. Case in point where T'lyn sat down and fold her feet inward at 0:36. When I saw this scene that stuck out to me. A small gesture that comes off as someone who felt defeated in this scene.
Similar to but not identical with the Japanese 'sitting seiza' pose, the feet folded under and overlapped to create a sort of cushion. If you're not used to it, it can make us unable to stand. A Japanese film 'The Japanese Way of Death' had this done for comedy, when a family going through the stages of a funeral for their father discovered they couldn't do this pose without losing all feeling in their legs, as it's done so rarely today. As for T'Lyn, I feel it was her unfolding her hands from a clenched fist that showed her regaining a balance.
I saved my ship by thinking outside the box. Obviously there is something very wrong with me, and I do not belong in a society of spacefaring scientists.
I love how much Mariner and Tylin respect eachother. It would have been so easy to make them antagonistic because Mariner is "too chaotic" or "illogical." Intead they instantly recognize and accept the value in their differences. Poor Tendi XD she wants to be the best friend so bad but instantly lost to Mariner
I also like how just like Mariner, T'Lyn also recognizes and is supportive of Boimler and tries to help him work through his self defeating issues as well.
Instincts are based on emotions. Since Vulcans suppress their emotions, then they should logically not have instincts. I believe Mr. Spock once said, “Without facts, no conclusion can be made logically. You will have to rely on your human instincts.”
I got this 'weird precognitive flash' of the Vulcans approaching ascension or something. Telepathic abilities being gained as maturity beyond violence occurred, and now the exposure to others (such as happened to Spock's parents and Spock) is resulting in a new change, logic being the beginning and not the end.
"Spock's dad had bendi syndrom and he's vulcan as a MF" and Spock basically told the Vulcan acadamey of science to go F itself, so how much more Vulcan can you get?
I think when they added the Vulcan T'Lyn it made a difference adding her to the cast lineup and crew of the Cerritos It's like it is a good thing to add a Vulcan to any crew of a starship
I re-watched Star Trek IV: The One With the Whales and when Sarek appeared at the beginning, all I could think was, "He is as Vulcan as a Mutha..." I anticipate that I will do so henceforth when I see the Son of Skon, Son of Solkar.
As one who's only seen a few clips of this episode, Bendai Syndrome makes PERFECT sense as the reason for all this (although it is highly unusual for Bendai to affect such a young Vulcan).
If she does have an early-onset version of Bendii Syndrome, it’s possible she could start out with brief, infrequent episodes like this that get worse (and more frequent) over time.
T'lyn is a great addition to the Cerritos crew. So she had to think outside the box to get something done, who else besides her can get something done in situations like this?!
Vulcans can be strong telepaths in the right conditions, but they're usually limited by touch (the mind meld and nerve pinch for example). Though it's worth noting that even by the standards of Vulcan telepathy, T'Lyn's mental influence seems abnormally strong.
TNG episode Sarek basically had Spock's father do this due to advanced bendii syndrome (the crew basically became an outlet for his emotions as his condition was deteriorating before a crucial diplomatic mission) so there is an example prior to lower decks.
@@FrogworfKnight Correct, but T'Lyn accidentally and subconsciously influenced three trained Betazoid telepaths, and they had absolutely no idea who or what was acting upon them. That seems quite strong.
@@TheBleggh Betazoids tend to be more open towards empathic/telepathic exchanges though, so I am not certain if they are a good benchmark on how strong a telepath someone is, especially if the rest of the crew is usually just background noise for them usually.
Given the scale and strength of the disruption, it would make T'lin one of the most powerful psychic beings in the Star Trek universe. I hope this comes back in some way.
“You’re one of the most brutally-efficient, distant people I have ever met.”
I love that T’Lyn considers this a compliment.
You can't compliment a Vulcan with anymore affection or praise than to call them a computer.
By Vulcan standards, it absolutely was.
It was supposed to be a compliment.
@@podemosurss8316 Yes, I’m well aware. The reason I brought it up was that it’s not the kind of statement most people would think of as a compliment. But it fit perfectly in this situation and to this person.
“You are the most reckless, bloodthirsty person I’ve ever known!”
“Aha! So I AM a true Klingon!”
The best line in the entire show: "Spock's dad had bendi syndrom and he's vulcan as a MF"......Absolute gold.
Between that and "F--- yeah! Logic, b-tch!"
Well, it's true.
Whilst doing the vulcan salute with both hands.
@@ElectricfoxLeonard Nimoy did that in at least one documentary.
While it is a great line
T'Lin's typical Vulcan dead pan delivery of "By the transitive property, I to must be Vulcan as a MF" just sent me for a few seconds
That way T’Lyn sank onto her knees was probably the cutest thing I've seen on this show.
Yeah i agree
I guess Vulcans know how to sit seiza?
I simp
Seeing T'lin come to terms with herself as a Vulcan despite what the others of her people said is heartwarming. And I appreciate the acknowledgement of the sheer power of vulcan emotions. The extreme emotions T'lin was bottling up and hiding beneath her exterior being broadcast by her telepathy and causing the crew to just lose their minds is a great look at what un-restrained vulcans could be like.
Kinda makes you wonder if the violence in the Vulcan's past was caused by the emergence of their telepathic ability.
So Vulcans can really be a radio tower like this? All I knew about was the Vulcan mind meld.
@@jiado6893It depends. Most Vulcans can only do touch-based telepathy aka the Mind Meld. A portion have no skill at all. But there are a few that are so strong they can do broadcast telepathy. T'lynn may be one of the rarer strong Vulcan telepaths...and never knew it until now.
I think Vulcan emotions probably could be handled but since they suppress them and don't grow up to figure out how to manage them healthily, they have no clue how which causes the problems. For a possible sign of evidence look at the Romulans who genetically are nearly identical to Vulcans who while still reserved can display emotions without going off the handlebars.
While I agree, she was too unstable(she was growneded at least 2 episodes). She is too unstable, I agree with her formed capitaim.
believing you are "not Vulcan enough" for suffering from a condition that only e
affects Vulcans is very illogical
Affects, not effects, and yes, quite illogical.
@@verilyheldDuuude you did an “um actually” on the internet, that earned you a little gold star, just for you, here ⭐️
@@evansheehan9258English is a dysfunctional enough language as it is, keeping it consistently dysfunctional is the least we can do
@@oberonpanopticon a very vulcan subthread
Yet that syndrome undermines the emotional suppression conditioning which is possibly the most definitive characteristic of Vulcan culture. Therefore, it is logical to state that one so afflicted may not be "Vulcan enough" in reference to their culture rather than their species.
Gabrielle Ruiz is brilliant, portraying emotional story with the sound of a monotone Vulcan... no easy feat. and Tawny Newsome is dropping f-bombs like an advanced member of The National Lampoon. This is some high level stuff.
The deadpan and the loose cannon are a tried and true combination.
@@MomsAgainstCatboys Classic Comedy.. K sounds are funny.. and #TheRuleOfThrees
You know what we need? Some new Admiral that appears every now and then voiced by Samuel L Jackson, who says Motherf**ker every now and then too.
*Bleeps* are too funny like Rick & Morty to me [Reminds me of that]
Damn Spock should have asked Mariner to do a eulogy for his father at his funeral.
"What can I say about Ambassador Sarek? Some remember him for his intellectual brilliance, some recall his tireless efforts towards securing galactic peace, but I think that all who knew him can agree, above all else he was Vulcan as a motherfucker. Thank you."
[confused, scattered applause]
[Spock claps louder than anyone]
Then Admiral McCoy leans over and whispers "She reminds you of Jim, doesn't she?"
@@zanite8650 [Spock's fourty-seven siblings all nod solemnly]
@@Raguleader You're probably lowballing that. Probably other adoptees from the Andorians, Tellarites, Orions, probably a Klingon or something too. Sarek secretly ran an orphanage.
" Vulcan as a motherf*cker." Will be my new favourite line.
Yeah logic, bitch!
F*ck yeah! Logic b*tch!
We need a tshirt of that line
We needed that shirt/hat/mug!
I would buy that
Honestly, who better to help comfort T’Lyn than someone who is essentially her but human?
Because T’Lyn is very much a Vulcan mirror to Beckett Mariner.
Prone to emotional outbursts, values life over protocol, follows her instincts, acts unconventionally… they are just that similar.
That, and Mariner did undergo a similar treatment last season and so she spoke from experience.
Exactly what I thought watching this scene. Well and earlier as well, when she was introduced. Her "I hope they know I don´t give a shit" scene in the meditation room back on her old ship.
Gotta love how T'Lyn stands, does a Picard Maneuver, raises a Spock-like eyebrow....and then drops an f-bomb soooo calmly!
As Spock himself once said, "To HELL with our orders."
T’lyn is amazing, instantly a favorite character
Her name is T'lin.
@@Timeward76 No, it is T'Lyn. It's written on her PADD.
Every Trek series should have a resident Vulcan. It's Ashame that DS9 didn't have one. TNG had Data so they were cool.
@@Timeward76 Um no. Imagine going out of your way the spelling/grammar nazi someone, but being wrong 😂
Totally agree. The voice actress of this character is perfect
Something about a Vulcan dropping the F bomb is truly cathartic.
T'lyn: If I was human, I would say I will complete my tasks when I %$# get around to it, Captain.
Freeman: Since you are not human, I will not have you tossed in the brig.
The hell it is
I always thought that word was highly illogical.
@@sarahberkner If T’Lyn were to consider it a common colloquialism among Mariner and the Cerritos crew, then she might see the logic in using it when around them.
Trek has a history of pushing the obscenity boundary, and this was another stone laid on that path.
"If I were human, I believe I would say: 'go, to, hell'... if I were human" - Spock, ST6
"Ohhh, shit" - Data, ST:G
I love how respectfully Mariner alluded to T'Lyn being sad.
Instead of saying 'you look/feel sad', which would seem insulting, she said she was 'close' to 'expressing' sadness.
Indeed. Some people forget that Vulcans do have emotions, they just mask them exceptionally well compared to most others.
What I like as well is that she slightly hesitated before saying it too. She has known enough Vulcans to know how to talk to them.
@@hezras8074 I particularly like the fact that Mariner continued to prove how good she is at inspiring others. After getting her PTSD-triggering promotion for that very reason.
3 things interest me in this
1. Mariners attempt to help Tylin seems to revolve around her own issues as well as Tylins
2. In an earlier clip Tendi shown to be different to the crew & rather than getting angry over emotional instability, is instead desperate to befriend Tylin. Kind of makes me thinks she's put too much pressure on herself to befriend people in what I'm assuming is an attempt to rewrite how Orions are perceived.
3. Tylins complaint about her captain is interesting as if you see the clip of her transferral he makes no claim that Tylin is being punished, that's a conclusion she seems to jump to (though he doesn't correct or attempt to deny what she says). He doesn't mention anything about her being either banished or damaged either & I suspect in later episodes there'll be a confrobtation/revelation around this.
I noticed that about T'Lyn's captain too. I think he simply judged that she would fit in better on a Federation ship.
The idea of her being punished or banished just for being different ignores a major aspect of Vulcan philosophy - Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.
I remember that part, I suppose he didn't say it was a punishment. But T'Lyn said to him that she saw it as one, and he sure as hell didn't correct that statement.
Edit: I rewatched the scene. So he basically tells her he's reassigning her. T'lyn basically says, "hey I don't think I deserve this punishment" and he says, "and that outburst is why I'm doing it." It definitely feels like he's punishing her in that moment.
@@jigglyluigi5102got to love Vulcan nuance.
@@jigglyluigi5102 He response is ambiguous (for a vulcan), but it could also be taken as him denying her assertion of it being a punishment. For a vulcan, she made an emotional outburst where she jumped to a drastic conclusion about his decision.
I'm still trying to figure how exactly Tendi being so eager to please worked back when she was training as an assassin.
“What was your captain's name?"
“Sokel."
“Maaan, F**K Captain Sokel!"
This is what friendship sounds like.
The fun thing is, for Vulcan standards T'Lyn is what Mariner is among humans.
And Solo seems to have seen T'lyn's talent, and that she needed a different fleet
He can "Soko" my Di-
*Sokel
Dissising ex-bosses?
Yeah that tracks
"I must be Vulcan as a Mother F****r" needs to be on a TShirt!!!!
What would Spock say about such language
I saw a picture of Gabrielle Ruiz wearing a shirt saying "Vulcan as a Mother ****er"
@@ChoolyBuzkillit would be the logical reaction to being told one is not "Vulcan enough".
The last two episodes have done wonders in making T'Lyn a full character and welcome addition to the show and the gang. Gabrielle Ruiz really knocked it out of the park in this scene given the difficulty of acting Vulcan. Really could feel legit sadness coming from T'Lyn despite the Vulcan control of emotions.
I´d say she is an intuitive and emotional person, by Vulcan standards. I think she was also sad when Boimler died.
Mariner was so uplifting and supportive, here. The last time she did that, at least on the ship, she received that downward-spiral, PTSD-surfacing promotion, yet here she is, being so nurturing, anyway. Furthermore, she's out-logicing Vulcans while under the psychic effects of T'Lyn's condition. So much growth and maturity.
I like how honest they wrote T’Lyn in the past two episodes (this and the last): Willing to admit some Orion men are pleasing to look at, cursing, saying ‘what is up’… She’s probably one of my favorite character simply because of how well the writers were able to stick with how they intended to makeup her character. She’s supposed to be somebody who’s ‘emotional’ by Vulcan standards, but is still a Vulcan nonetheless, who maintains a collected demeanor. That’s exactly what they managed to keep going for her and they’ve not only done it well so far but also did it in a way that kept the depth of T’Lyn’s character from being lost in the process.
This reminds me of Spock's conversation with Volaris: logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end
T'lyn does quote that statement from Spock in her first appearance back in Wuj Dej, in fact.
@@podemosurss8316 CAME HERE TO COMMENT THIS❤
Cap Sokal may be doing the Vulcan version of 'tough love'. He sends T'Lyn to a Federation ship to experience where these emotions lead, it may be he hopes that she is going to 'completed' by exposure to an exterior influence.
That T'Lyn perceives his actions in a light that did not occur is perhaps a symptom, and not the cause. Wow. I'm sounding like her when I write.
Does that make you Vulcan as a MFer as well?
@@sosumi_rogueJust a little empathic, mostly I prefer timely and efficient solutions, the average human male actions. STILL writing like her.
Did anyone else notice that during her “Vulcan as a motherfucker” rant, Mariner’s hands were in the Vulcan Salute?
No, not until you mentioned it. Cool.😊
Beckett always does that. Her mom called her out on it, "Don't you give me that mock Vulcan salute!"
"Indeed"
"Then by the transitive property, I too must be Vulcan as a mother#^(&er."
I don't know why, but this is my new mantra.
0:08 That statement is EXACTLY why Worf would get kicked around so much in TNG. It was to show us, the audience, that whatever problem the Entreprise was facing at the time was NOT going to be solved trough the use of force. They would have to think and investigate their way out of it. The exact OPPOSITE of DS9, where with the Dominion War in full force, it was a show where EVERY problem had to be solved by force. And Worf would fit right in.
This show just keeps getting better.
After four seasons of this show, anything more will be just gravy. This, to me, feels the most faithful to the original shows Star Trek has been in a VERY long time. Sure it's goofy and silly, but even in the jokes there's a love for the lore and the ideals the shows are built on.
they could tune down the unprofessionalism/cursing a bit!, but other then that, this is the most StarTrek series since Orville 🤭
Lower Decks is the best Star Trek Spin - off since DS9.🖖
T’Lyn was such a great addition to the cast and Mariner going from being insufferable in season one to an empathetic and brutally loyal friend is great character development.
Things that the hateards obviously don't get, as they probably haven't even watched the show (or passed the first few episodes of the first season).
0:14 Mariner's reaction is perfect. It's like a muscle that had been strained for years finally relaxes.
I need "Vulcan as a M..f..cker" on a t shirt
I haven't watched much of "Star Trek: Lower Decks" (ST:LD) but clips like this make me want to watch the entire series. Amidst the humor, there are also times when they hit you with strongly emotional scenes like this one and the clip where Mariner admits she "I just want to be an Ensign". This scene makes me hope that when ST:LD ends they use the character of T'Lyn in another series.
T’Lyn being able to effectively express feelings of shame and sorrow despite her dispassionate tone is pretty great in this heightened, comedic portrayal of a Vulcan, as they aren’t truly emotionless as others would believe, rather they have more, muted and subdued ways of expressing emotion.
I always liked to think that Vulcans are not devoid of emotions so much as they have a very firm grip on them which is how they are portrayed in this series. Like when T'Lyn talked to the Vulcan captain, he doesn't lose his temper but you can tell he is angry.
@@spectre111 This appears true in other instances in Star Trek. In a recent example from Strange New Worlds, Spock receives a barrage of disparaging remarks from the mother of a Vulcan woman he prioritized Star Fleet over and divorced with her acceptance. Her tone is calm, but she is expressing anger at her daughter being left as if personally insulted by her daughter, who is of high status, being refused, much less by a human hybrid. However, while she is calm, she still is acting on emotion to shame Spock and when Spock excuses himself to use the restroom, obviously upset and needing time to compose himself, she is completely oblivious to this and insults what she believes is a weak bladder, something she boasts regular Vulcan’s not having.
Simply being, or at least, acting calm doesn’t make Vulcan’s emotionally intelligent or mature, just able to suppress the physical symptoms of being emotional. But various Vulcan’s depicted throughout the franchise conflate being able to pretend to be emotionless as maturity, which at worst can make them lack a sense of empathy and why characters like T’Lyn or Spock work so well, two very intelligent beings learning wisdom through experience.
At 1:51 when T'lyn unclenched her hands. For a Vulcan, that is right below snapping point.
What? Nah, the opposite. That's her unwinding. Like someone going from full-on ugly crying to totally relaxed.
@@Brasswatchman Point taken.
ugh shes so cute i cant get enough. i love t'lyn
Heartwarming as this is, it's kinda sad that T'lyn might potentially be suffering the Vulcan equivalent of early-onset dementia.
Wait what how? I’m not knowledgeable in that field so I don’t know what about her indicates this.
@@Chaotic-po8oj That's what Bendii syndrome is to a Vulcan, a kind of dementia. Sarek had it in TNG. Although I'm not sure if this episode confirmed that T'Lyn is suffering from it, or whether they were just comparing her emotional turmoil to it.
@@TheOiseauthats the impression i got. Its less her suffering it early, and more so a sinilar result of her current emotional state. If anything i say it just happens in older vulcans because of the natural decline of brain functions leading to maintaining the strict and rigid stoicism practiced by the vulcans extrmely hard. T’lyn tho just has a hard time with her emotions in general so it hits as a result.
@@TheOiseauI dont know if its an official diagnosis, but T'lyn's experimentation and struggle with emotional control could indeed lead to a similar effect when she's conflicted. Bendii syndrome is characterized by loss of emotional control, so it's logical that a general lack of or struggle to emotional control could lead to similar effects.
@@Timeward76 Well, i guess we wait and see if she really is disabled, or if she's just being unnecessarily hard on herself for no good reason.
Mariner and T'Lyn were always similar in the same way Boimler and Ma'Ah (the lower decks Klingon) were similar.
Mariner taking this "man fuck the captain. What the hell does he know!?" Really shows that similarity.
T'Lyn wasn't pushished for her disobedience, she was transferred to somwhere her talents can be appreciated properly. It's a misunderstanding between Command and Lower Decks of where their strengths truly lie. Which is the same problems Mariner has.
I don't know. "Your inability to control your emotions is a liability." Key word there "liability", or "one that causes a lot of problems or embarrassment". That really DOES imply that he didn't get it.
Human Vulcan Parternship is the finest in Star Trek
"Yeah, Logic bitch!"
God I love this show
Man, the moment I saw T'lyn on Vulcan Lower Decks, I thought she was an absolute perfect match for the Cerritos, and until now, I absolutely loved her interaction with the rest of the crew, she did fit in immensely, and I hope she became a main cast, and let's agree that Lower Decks is awesome.
Now we need a khan character in the group and everything Will be perfect
She´s just what the show needed to round the main cast up.
Tendi was my favorite character for quite a while, and I still love her . . . but as soon as T'Lyn was introduced, she became my new fave. I was praying to the Great Bird of the Galaxy that she would somehow end up joining the Cerritos crew, and the Great Bird granted my wish.
She's my new favorite Vulcan!
That gang of five at the table seems like the nucleus of a crew to me. Medical / science, engineering / operations, counselor / science, helm / watch officer, captain / watch officer.
"This is one of those rare situations that cant be kicked !!!" Had me laughing my ass off
A situation that gets revisited in the season finale.
I get the sense the Lower Decks writers had been trying to _not_ have a token Vulcan in this series, but token or not, they always seem to make any Star Trek series better.
Everyone, group hug T'Lyn while she's emotional! 🤗
"the crew should be coming to their senses [to the extent they possess any]." And T'Lyn is the Vulcan version of Mariner.
This scene always makes me tear up.
Definitely the high point of T'Lyn's time on the Cerritos thus far 😊
This has to represent my favorite thing about mariner, she cannot handle or accept people hating themselves or whatever the closest thing vulcans can have
I defy ANYONE to tell me that's not the best line EVER uttered by a Vulcan in ANY Star Trek series. ^_^
At least tied with "One damn minute, Admiral".
@@jgrey8959 Okay, that one's pretty good, too. ^_^
I don’t believe her captain ever thought she was flawed. He just determined that her temperament would be of better service in Starfleet where she could shine rather than be restricted.
Yeah, he didn't present it as a punishment or anything like that. I think when she asked him if she's being punished, he just said "you thinking that is why I think this reassignment is necessary"
I was under the impression tlin was sent to starfleet because she was exceptionally talented and could thrive with additional freedom a non-vulcan environment granted.
Just noticed that when Mariner said "Vulcaned it up" her hands were in the LL&P sign.
Her and marriner would make a awesome couple, bad girl vulcan stabalising the chaotic good marriner.
Vulcan type characters are incredibly hilarious when they're swearing 😂
I have to say the animation for this show is very detailed. Case in point where T'lyn sat down and fold her feet inward at 0:36.
When I saw this scene that stuck out to me. A small gesture that comes off as someone who felt defeated in this scene.
Similar to but not identical with the Japanese 'sitting seiza' pose, the feet folded under and overlapped to create a sort of cushion.
If you're not used to it, it can make us unable to stand.
A Japanese film 'The Japanese Way of Death' had this done for comedy, when a family going through the stages of a funeral for their father discovered they couldn't do this pose without losing all feeling in their legs, as it's done so rarely today.
As for T'Lyn, I feel it was her unfolding her hands from a clenched fist that showed her regaining a balance.
When he called him Vulcan as a motherfuker, she also did the salute with her hands
"Man F### Captain Soko!!!"
hahahahaha the way she said it is so OG.
I saved my ship by thinking outside the box. Obviously there is something very wrong with me, and I do not belong in a society of spacefaring scientists.
Tlyn is Vulcan Daria. *Tonight on Sick Sad Quadrant*
I love how much Mariner and Tylin respect eachother. It would have been so easy to make them antagonistic because Mariner is "too chaotic" or "illogical." Intead they instantly recognize and accept the value in their differences. Poor Tendi XD she wants to be the best friend so bad but instantly lost to Mariner
Well, it does makes sense when you remember that Tylin's very first appearance introduced her as 'Vulkan Mariner'.
I also like how just like Mariner, T'Lyn also recognizes and is supportive of Boimler and tries to help him work through his self defeating issues as well.
T'Lynn is like the Spock to Mariner's Kirk is all. Tendi? Unfortunately, the bond would never be as strong.
I love this show so much lol
Instincts are based on emotions. Since Vulcans suppress their emotions, then they should logically not have instincts. I believe Mr. Spock once said, “Without facts, no conclusion can be made logically. You will have to rely on your human instincts.”
I got this 'weird precognitive flash' of the Vulcans approaching ascension or something.
Telepathic abilities being gained as maturity beyond violence occurred, and now the exposure to others (such as happened to Spock's parents and Spock) is resulting in a new change, logic being the beginning and not the end.
"Spock's dad had bendi syndrom and he's vulcan as a MF" and Spock basically told the Vulcan acadamey of science to go F itself, so how much more Vulcan can you get?
T'lin: I am engaged in colorful %$#! metaphors, Mariner.
This... is the only Star Trek I need.
"What was your captain's name?"
"Sokel"
"Man Fuck captain Sokel"
Get you a supportive friend like Mariner.
They both do bottle up their emotions, don’t they.
It feels like T'Lyn should have been part of the show years ago.
“Fuck yeah: logic, bitch!!!” is my new favourite Trek quote. Going to get some longevity out of that one... 🖖🏻😁
T’Lyn and Mariner 😍😍😍😍
"Vulcan as a motherfu**er" HAS to be on a shirt somewhere...I will find it!!!
My favourite line in the season so far.
Sokel sent her to Starfleet where she could learn to utilize her strengths in a way she would not learn in Vulcan service.
Is it me or was there a slight satisfied smile in T'lyns face at the end there?
I love that Vulcans punish people who don’t follow the mainstream the same way that Romulans do. They just do it in a much nicer way. 😂
The new Kirk and Spock
All I get from this is Vulcan equals emotionally repressed space elves😂
I think when they added the Vulcan T'Lyn it made a difference adding her to the cast lineup and crew of the Cerritos
It's like it is a good thing to add a Vulcan to any crew of a starship
I re-watched Star Trek IV: The One With the Whales and when Sarek appeared at the beginning, all I could think was, "He is as Vulcan as a Mutha..." I anticipate that I will do so henceforth when I see the Son of Skon, Son of Solkar.
As one who's only seen a few clips of this episode, Bendai Syndrome makes PERFECT sense as the reason for all this (although it is highly unusual for Bendai to affect such a young Vulcan).
T'Lyn brings up the age issue as well, and it's left a little ambiguous whether it actually *is* Bendii syndrome or just something similar.
If she does have an early-onset version of Bendii Syndrome, it’s possible she could start out with brief, infrequent episodes like this that get worse (and more frequent) over time.
If it’s confirmed later she has bendi syndrome then she is a disabled vulcan and something im curious how they will handle
@@byranwitherspoon5369 Better than Sarek's entourage, hopefully.
T’lyn is such a great character. So happy we got to have her back after the first introduction.
Holy crap didn’t notice Mainer does the Vulcan fingers as saying motherf$&ker
I heard it and now I have the sticker on my car
0:24 - only Mariner could get high from not being unstable :P
T'lyn is a great addition to the Cerritos crew. So she had to think outside the box to get something done, who else besides her can get something done in situations like this?!
Funny to hear a Vulcan drop the F-bom, even if it is bleeped.
Imagine the feeling of *Zen* , being balanced by a Vulkan 🖖
I love that this was made for streaming so they don’t have to bleep swears but they still do it as a choice because bleeps are funny
T'lin feels like the missing part of the jigsaw this show needed. I hope they keep her properly vulcan
These episodes are the best I've ever seen
I keep wondering how many of the people who flipped out over the swearing in Star Trek: Discovery have no problem with "Vulcan as a mother******"?
2:04
Holy sh*t for a brief millisecond, she was smiling
She is truly unstable
So Vulcans can really be a radio tower like this? All I knew about was the Vulcan mind meld.
Vulcans can be strong telepaths in the right conditions, but they're usually limited by touch (the mind meld and nerve pinch for example). Though it's worth noting that even by the standards of Vulcan telepathy, T'Lyn's mental influence seems abnormally strong.
TNG episode Sarek basically had Spock's father do this due to advanced bendii syndrome (the crew basically became an outlet for his emotions as his condition was deteriorating before a crucial diplomatic mission) so there is an example prior to lower decks.
@@FrogworfKnight Correct, but T'Lyn accidentally and subconsciously influenced three trained Betazoid telepaths, and they had absolutely no idea who or what was acting upon them. That seems quite strong.
@@TheBleggh Betazoids tend to be more open towards empathic/telepathic exchanges though, so I am not certain if they are a good benchmark on how strong a telepath someone is, especially if the rest of the crew is usually just background noise for them usually.
@@TheBleggh Maybe so, but I can forgive it because it gave us this episode and this scene.
Given the scale and strength of the disruption, it would make T'lin one of the most powerful psychic beings in the Star Trek universe. I hope this comes back in some way.
This had to be the very first time a Vulcan has used a sware word.
This scene means a lot to me as somebody who's neurodivergent.
"I suppose, by the transitive property, I too must be Vulcan as a MFer".
There can be no finer dialogue in all of fiction.
Gawd I love that monotone voice