George RR Martin on His Problems With Fan Fiction
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- Опубликовано: 31 янв 2019
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A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Author George RR Martin Interview
So maybe he should finish his books then. HBO is now doing fan fiction.
HBO's been fan fiction-ing the show since season 5 lol. That's probably why he hates fan fiction. Because he hates HBO.
@@lovettdeleted I think he only hates D&D. Those two doesn't know how to write a story. GoT is so famous because the first seasons are basicly a copy & paste of the books. If it was an original series, it would be as good as season 7
Daniel Meurer Why would he hate HBO or David and Dan?
@@meurer13daniel claming they were a copy and paste is incorrect a lot of caracthers were cout out and a lot of the tone of essos was turned down for the worst
Nope... There were still consultation with George Martin after season 6... The main plot was still based from his story...
Details though maybe different...
Martin: "What I see doesn't affect me, so if you want to do it, I don't care, but please don't send it to me."
Title: GRRM *HATES* FAN FICTION
The title does describe the content, but he’s a lot more reasonable about it than one would suppose.
GRRM MURDERS ASPIRING WRITER
GRRM WANTS TO PERSONALLY BURN EVERY FAN FICTION WRITER
@@BlackCover95 Not really. It's clickbaity when all he's saying is he doesn't care if people write fanfiction, but don't sell it. And if you do want to write, he's encouraging people to create their own, original works instead. The tone of what he's saying is completely different unless you want to be ultra pedantic about it.
GRRM: "I hate fan fiction"
Title: GRRM says he hates fan fiction
What's the problem?
Fan Fiction is better than what happened in Season 8.
No it's not. it's made up crap by people with too much free time in their hands and it can actually kill a show by influencing the writers/producers. case in point... friggin' GOT!
@@MrDantres I don't think the writingers has anyone else to blame that them self. Game of thrones season 8 was ruined because they knew the end. They shouldn't have known the end but should let it instead grow a ending instead of just forceing it to end the way you like.
@@Captain-Axeman Imo the season should have had 8-10 episodes, that way everything would have taken its proper time to mature into any ending, including the one we've watched. That's my main criticism towards S8, it fealt rushed.
@@MrDantres plus add the fact that they were offered more episodes, they chose to end it in 6 episodes
Everything past where the books end is literally fan fiction, including season 8.
So he isn't against fan fiction, he's against copyright infringement. The title is a bit misleading...
He's against someone doing something that he can't exploit for free. Greedy captialist, not better then his Ramsey Bolton character.
It clearly shows that he doesn't understand what fan fiction is. He took a stand on it, they asked him the question regarding it and he gave that answer. The confusion mainly comes from his failure to comprehend it. They aren't misrepresenting what they are asking him at all. It's the response and reasoning for statements on the subject that are terribly wrong.
As someone who does standup comedy I kind of get what he is saying. The time I went to a big club and saw Amy Schumer doing jokes that I had already seen Jerry Seinfeld do years earlier and I have also seen Carlos Mencia steal other comics jokes, I understood why comics were mad. They put alot of creative work into that material.
Since what you got from this convo is a state secret dont ask what anybody else got out of it.
@ he literally said he's against people selling stories based on other people's work, he doesn't indicriminantly hate all fan fiction. He's against people *selling* fan fiction which would be copyright infringement. "What you wanna do for your own amusement is great but you can't start selling it" his exact words.
You'll never take my Night King x Tywin Lannister yaoi!
Rip 😂
I officially don't need to look any further into the comments on this video. We have a winner.
I’ll continue to draw gay fanarts of them and no one can stop me!!
The night king isn't his, it's only in the show.
What a power couple.
He's not saying all fanfiction is bad.. he's saying he doesn't agree with people using others creations for profit without permission. Am i missing something?
No. He’s saying fan fiction isn’t creative and is obscene.
Even if that was what he was saying he still comes off as ignorant because if you did a little research into fanfiction culture you'd quickly realize fans don't make any profit from fanfiction and moreover fans frown upon other fans who even _try_ to make money from writing fics.
@@SuperHappyNotMerry criticizing someone for using someone else's world they spent years making isn't it ignorant, not listening to someone else's opinion because you don't like their point of view is though so go back and write your shitty fan fiction and insult people who actually have talent
In previous interviews he was even more intensely against fan fiction even proposing to sue people who upload it for free on their websites (I.e. tumblr, blogspot)
Well he's okay with fanfiction made by d&d and hbo because he made fortune of that
Most fanfiction doesn't profit off others work. In fact, it completely frowned upon in those communities.
lol you should visit patreon, deviantart, instagram
have you been on Wattpad lately?
@@tk9406 Doesn't take away the fact that it is frowned upon. Most fanfiction authors don't agree with people like that. And there is a LOT of fanfiction authors. But only very, very few are actually any good lol.
@@taegi3990 nah, I mainly stick to fanfiction.net. Pretty much the only one I like. And one of the only ones I've been able to find good fanfiction and not weird crap.
Spoonman you‘d be surprised how many fanfic „authors“ actually profit from other people’s work there. They will usually copy the entire plot of a book or movie or show and „change“ it by adding some OC character. And since Wattpad enabled users with a certain number of reads to place income generating adverts before every chapter those people get to make money off of someone else’s idea and hard work. I find it ridiculous. But yes I agree, fanfiction.net is much better than Wattpad.
The last episode was literally fan fiction tier
A true fan would never write that garbage.
That’s an insult to bad fanfiction
@@user-xb6dk4zl7l Exactly a true fan would recognise the show was shit way before that.
Ooo ooo ahh ahh lemme make fun of s8 because it’s funny and trendy
@@loganmawhiney2613 We aren't making fun of it because it's trendy, we make fun of it because it's low-effort garbage.
Shit, i better delete my Jon x Drogon stories soon....
Hey psst. Send them to me, I'll pay
I’ll pay twice as much
Don't you dare!
NO don't!!!
GRRM:"THAT'S NOT ENOUGH, DELETE YOURSELF, DIE! TODAY! DEATH TO YOU BITCH DIE!"
Fan Fiction is the BIGGEST indicator you made it with your story. If there’s fan fiction, ur probably a millionaire
Philip Quaglino preach
Or alternatively George could just check his bank account
@M 40 Only send art.
I both agree and disagree with this comment.
Anna Todd made millions by writing a fanfiction about Harry Styles called after. Obviously she changed the names but still it was the popularity of the fanfiction that get her a book deal.
On the other hand, I live in Iran, and the copyrights rules is practically nonexistent and if you want, you can’t make money out of a fanfiction because no one cares.
Sharry BH to be fair she did remove the vampire aspect of it. At that point, it was more of an inspiration from twilight. The only thing she did was take existing characters (who were already bland and generic to begin with) and change their name. Still not original, but not exactly copying
Hearing the lone first laugh after he said “slash fiction” made my day
Shame he let D&D write his work into fan fiction ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Not much else he could do unless he stopped writing the books to aid them in making it better, since real life issues just wouldn't allow the show to stop (like puberty, aging and public expectations).
He could have convinced HBO to give him alone the right to end the show, giving more seasons that would be better, although very different from the books (maybe even extra content in scenes from previous seasons as to enrich the episodes), but again, unrealistic.
(yes, I know it's a joke)
He did tell then what they ending was supposed to be
D&D are not Fans, so technically it's not fanfiction but copyrighted shitposting.
The first is free entertainment, the latter makes money for the guy.
Just my 2 cents.
@@DominicJGomez Why should he tell them one of the most anticipated book endings in history? He never sold them the rights to something he will produce in future.
@@Bartooc Simply because that is treating the fans like shit by setting out to tease them for literally decades while planning to squeeze every last fucking penny out of them. I don't think George Martin is that guy. He just unfortunately let things get away from him. GRRM is undoubtedly self-indulgent in setting out to write the most epic fantasy series in history without a proper framework to follow. Up to the end of a Storm of Swords I was in reading heaven. But I'm sorry, he literally lost the plot with the next two books. If his publisher had any backbone they would have said go back and lose a third of these books by simplifying the plotlines because you are just being self-indulgent now. But I still want to believe GRRM is basically a good person trying his best to finish what he started.
"Something he will produce in the future"
So he is old, obese and will be long-lived? Sorry, but the first two of those do not go with the third for the vast majority of people. People are too deferential to GRRM. The truth is he set out to best Tolkien without making the sacrifices needed to do so. A writer who pours their best ideas into what turns out to be effectively a retirement hobby is just fucking annoying and selling everyone short. Excuse the language, but its true. People need to see that!
But, I must emphasise I still admire his achievements. I just find the way he has set about ASOIAF soooooo frustrating. I am unashamedly a member of Team Stark/Snow. The reasons why they won and not Dany (who I totally admire in the books so far) are really important. You want your leaders to follow good examples from their childhood if possible (If I may over-simplify the issue to a admittedly ridiculous extent). But GRRM got grifted by D&D and the rest is history. Christopher Tolkien was no fan of Peter Jackson but surely he realised PJ did his very best with Lord of the Rings (What happened with The Hobbit was because PJ took over with no time to plan and carry out the project properly). Its a tragedy GRRM didn't choose producers who were actual fans. With due diligence he could have done so.
"I don't like fan fiction, it's more likely to finish my book than I am, and that's a real problem for me" - GRRM
TheDXJC56 God, that would be awful if that ends up being the case.
@Soon Forgot amen
Soon Forgot including HBO’s writers unfortunately
so i guess he is not going to like all the sex fan fiction i sent him about Jamie Lanister and Brenden Stark...
@@MrChickennugget360 for some reason a weird techno song came into my head after reading this. it has a sweet bassline and a voice repeating "wheel chair sex" dum dudm
That's funny because this last season seems more like fan fiction than actual GOT source material.
No not really. The ideas aren't fan service and they are actually fitting and probably what will happen in some form, it was just badly executed. It's not fanfiction it's just bad storytelling
@@protector_of_the_realms Not just Bad, TERRIBLE GARBAGE SHIT. Full of plotholes, character inconsistencies and many more.
@@protector_of_the_realms you can’t be telling me Arya x Gendry is fitting, it’s honestly disgusting fanservice. Jon x Dani is also ridiculous fanservice
@@drfabulous2804 I wasn't really referring to or even considering the romances, rather the overall direction it took (namely Danny going mad, Jon being exiled and Bran becoming King, that's pretty much as far from fan service as possible lol. And to me these ideas could have been poetic and very fitting but the execution was just batshit that I really only got behind Danny going mad because she was without a doubt one of my favorite characters and I love tragedies and villains more than anything, I had been predicting it since day 1 so I was pretty ecstatic to see it finally come to fruition whilst most people might have been depressed lol. And it was probably the best executed "twist" to come out of the season though that ain't saying much as it was still done incredibly poorly, it was just 1% more sensical and fitting than say the 0% sense with everyone somehow unanimously agreeing that a disabled creepy kid they've never seen before and would think mad, apart of a family they don't want to support who's done nothing and constantly said he doesn't want to rule should become king based on 1 speech from a guy not many of them know or trust who himself has only spoken to the kid a couple of times). And it's interesting that what I think is the easily most fanservicey thing in the whole season (mountain vs hound) is one of the few bits everyone seems to love but then most use the term fanservice or fanfiction in a negative connotation still to other parts which are way less fanservicy. But yeah ultimately you're right I suppose Gendry and Arya feels a bit off. However Jon and Dany's relationship was actually interesting and complex with a lot of consequences that tied into the plot, the lore and their progression as well so I wouldn't necessarily dismiss that one as fan service just because a lot of us fans had predicted and hoped it would happen based on the potential of a really interesting and complex dynamic within a grey area of right to rule. And in addition with how pivotal it ended up being to the story and character motivations, I wouldn't call it fanservice tbh. To me it's a great, very relevant and important story concept and theme though like everything else it could have been done much better. Oh well, we all hope and it probably will be done better in the books
"Hate" seems like clickbait to me.
I think what he's saying is that he doesn't want people making money off of his creations, which is pretty reasonable, and also that most people who write fan fiction don't "get" or "understand" the characters that he's written so it ends up being a horribly inaccurate portrayal. He doesn't give a shit if you write it or not, he just doesn't want to read it.
Inaccurate for his characters. But the writing of fanfiction turns his characters into the writer's interpretation of those characters. As long as it's not for profit, those characters are valid interpretations that are simply probably less intricately plotted.
If I write spiderman as a homosexual ostrich, its not a valid interpretation. its idiotic fanfiction, whether or not its for profit
@@adamg0d Something can be idiotic fanfiction and a valid interpretation at the same time. Validity is in the eye of the beholder. Ostrich is a good example of idiocy but homosexual is a bad one. It's entirely plausible for there to be a fat (edit: I meant to write 'gay' but it got autocorrected to fat) version of Spider-Man.
there could be a fat spiderman, since marvel includes alternate dimensions. its more forgiving in that sense. game of thrones is also not that. its not a piece of abstract art, or asking someone to describe how a sunset makes you feel. there is a single correct answer, two if you include the TV show alongside the novels, for how the characters are. the characters are exactly what they are shown to be. I could say that a pizza is a sandwich, and you have to respect my unique and totally valid worldview on it. but you shouldn't, feelings be damned. its a pizza.
@Berta Berta I think you should listen again and just listen to him word for word. He's really not an offensive guy, he just speaks plainly.
All he really said is he has no interest, he doesn't like people profiting off of his work, and that if you're writing fan fiction you're not improving as much as you could be as an author.
After all, creating interesting characters and settings is one of the most important parts of writing.
He isn't trying to offend and I don't think you should take it too hard, I'm sure he'd be happy to know that there's FF that comforts you.
4:47 I thought I accidentally hit the pause button lol
Lmao same
I thought my shitty internet was failing again and got mad lol
Thought it was just me lol
Fanfiction seems to be a natural extension of the way stories have always been absorbed into and interacted with culture. I recently got into writing fanfiction for a contest and working in a world created by someone else and with their characters can be such a unique and inspiring challenge. I will say that I don't think it's a great substitute for creating something more or less from scratch.
Regarding the first point, yes, that's why we have different versions of the same story in ancient times. There are a lot early Christian books that are essentially biblical fanfics, some of them which are actually recognized as canonical (e.g. The Book of Enoch in relation to the Orthodox Church of Ethiopia), such as the whole Gnostic literature and so on. Also, aren't Zeus from the MCU, Disney's Hercules movie, God of War, Percy Jackson and the movie Troy all Homeric and Hesiodic fanfiction? And they are profitting off of someone else's work, the difference being those authors died a long time ago.
Now on the second point, super yes, specially when you take an IP and try to expand on it despite the limitations of the setting. Those limitations can however at the same time lead to the creation of something unique/interesting within that setting and set a ceiling to that story's quality.
I don't know that I've ever seen an instance of someone selling fanfiction. AO3 ain't monetized.
Exactly. AO3 is a not for profit organization and has lawyers on its team of volunteers. Transformative works are legal as long as one isn't seeking profit from them or blatantly plagiarizing the original work and passing it off as your own or that's the gist of it. Transformative means it has been changed into something different than the original work. I mean, look at how many versions of Sherlock Holmes there are, all by different creators.
50 Shades of Gray.
What happens sometimes is a story will start out as Fanfiction (Fifty Shades/ Twilight- Mortal Instruments/ Harry Potter) and then the author will rework it enough so it can be published as an original work, be it by changing names or eliminating certain elements of the original world. Some authors are against this, and I can see why as it promotes a mindset that you don't need to be wholly creative to be published and it borders on plagiarism. Fan fiction itself I'm honestly fine with, but when publishing and money is involved and when the original and the vaguely disguised fan fiction are are transparent to one another as tracing paper, it can be a tad insulting to the original creator.
the refers to fanart, a lot of "artist" crate fanart of popular franchise, let it be games, movies, videogames etc, some of them are not even fan of the character they draw, they just do it cause they are popular at a particular time, and thats ok, but the thing is, it doesnt stop there, not only they use those fan art to promote themselves, but start selling them, thats piracy, its just that is something so hard to erradicade, that the authors prefer not to do anything about it.
Trish Brennan Sherlock Holmes is a bit different due to his age most of his stories are already public domain, which means anyone can write about it and profit. However his last ten stories published after 1923 are not. Therefore any characteristics introduced there can’t be used in a for profit work, such as Watson’s second wife, until 2023. Moreover that’s only in the US, in Great Britain all of the Holmes stories have been public domain since early 2000s.
At this point all we’re ever gonna have is the fan fiction
still the case
@@kingofkings3624
I really hate coming back to this comment two years later and still being right. Thanks lol.
I am fine with fan fiction as long as people know it is fan fiction and don’t start to get upset when the real stories don’t go the way they want it to go and cry about it
Personally I think this is actually why a lot of people didn’t like the Star Wars Sequels. Now I don’t like them myself, but I’ve heard a lot of people just complain because there theories were wrong
@@tobyriecke3972 a small part but those did something entirely different it didn’t match up with the lore from the originals
@@tobyriecke3972 Disney is to blame
@@tobyriecke3972 sorry for the late reply but the reason I've seen most people complain about the star wars sequels is because star wars already has made what happens after the movies its called star wars legends now since Disney said its not Canon anymore
I think the day George started hating fanfiction was the day someone guessed R+L=J
He probably spent *years* coming up with that shit. It could have been the inspiration for the entire story.
To have it spoiled before he had even put it in print must have been hard.
I read 2/3's of the original Game of Thrones and nailed the Jon Snow parentage. My girl who had read all five books multiple times still thought his mom was Willa... I was like you can't be serious? Ned can't stand lying and gets upset anytime someone brings up Jon's parentage also what the hell else could Lyanna have possibly have needed him to promise her? She knew how honorable he was it was the only viable option.
no, I think he wanted people to be able to work it out, it shows they are invested in his story. He only agreed to David Benioff and D.B. Weiss producing the show after they told him who Jon's mother was.
That's called a theory, not fan fiction.
Fan fiction is Jon Snow and Daenerys being a couple
R+L??
@@meurer13daniel but that's a fact
Even if fanfiction is crappy it had a place in the world. It's like crutches to help be writers start out. If it wasn't for my crappy Star Wars, Harry Potter and Transformers fan fictions back in the day, I would've never become an actually decent writer.
Plus, there are tons of genuinely great fanfictions out there.
Which book have you written?
@@dailyplanet354 Finished one when I was about 15, and nearly got to the end of the sequel until I realized just how crappy they were. xD So yeah, my first original fiction was also just one step towards becoming a better writer.
Now, I write mostly screenplays.
@@guicaldo7164 Awesome! Keep it up mate.
@@guicaldo7164 Good on you man.
Grats
*Burst in tears* Don't talk to me or my Sansa x Brienne Fanfiction ever again.
Something tells me he never would've approved S8 Ep3...
he never did, D&D were given notes, and i highly doubt that any of episode 3 bullshit was in those notes. IMO D&D just made up everything that happened in that battle, and it fucking sucks
He really needs to come out and say something about the episode. If only to shut everyone up...
@@mattevans4377if George left this important episode in the hands of other writers with little oversight he has little right to criticise the attempt. It was a good episode anyway.
it was a good plan for George, since he can now say "I'll show you the real result in the book!"
@@jozef97 if this was a good episode for you darling than get some standards. Its was one of the worse tv episodes ive seen since dexter. if some look behind the effects cgi , and they had money to burn. every main character has plot amor. get thrown in situation no one would survive who but look look they get saved the last second and this happens 20 times in 80 minutes. just another disney movie. and i wont even start about the ending it was so stupid its just not worth my time talking about it.
Since your never going to finish George, Fan Fiction is all we got.
Kasman2002 If that ends up being the case I'll settle for nothing 😂😂😂
Or just living real life
But the vast majority of fanfic writers don’t profit off their work...?
but they may borrow the characters and environment.
Since he hates fanfiction from way back in the day, he probably refers to works like the Star Wars books, which started as basically fan-fiction and ended up becoming canon (until Disney that's it).
He doesn’t like that they use other people’s characters. He said his fan fiction was making his own characters using inspiration from other books/series.
@@youwhat. Then that's just fiction.
Gungan Not for him. I feel like the term has changed with the internet age.
GRR trying to avoid the 50 Shades of Grey Effect on his books xD
Damn, I guess my Jon Snow and the Hound fanfic is cancelled...
Nah, just go ahead and publish it just to screw with GRRM!
Okay, I generally don't like fanfiction. Or I didn't used to. But I have to disagree with him. People write fanfiction because they are moved by a story they have read/watched/etc. They love the world the author has created and want to explore it beyond what is in the canon. And beyond all that, fanfiction isn't written asking for anyone's approval. It's written by a fan for themselves, or like-minded fans.
And I hate to say it, but Mr. Martin is coming off as incredibly arrogant here. He's acting like he deserves his success with no gratitude for everything he has. But you have to admire that he just says the things every successful person thinks.
So you think fans who write fan fiction have the right to sell and merchandise their work? I think you need to rewatch the video my guy. Where does he say to his fans not to write fan fiction. He literally said of that's what you like go for it. Do what you want.
@@pedrozayas9051 No, I absolutely don't think fan fiction authors should be able to sell or profit off their fanfiction. I'm only defending people who write fanfiction for fun.
And he does say he's an opponent of writing fiction based on other people's characters or worlds.
Kazaradigital he didn’t do a very good job of phrasing it. But what I believe he meant is that he doesn’t think it’s a good idea for people to try and build their entire writing career off of fanfiction. There are a good many people who do that these days.
oh! And I think when he was saying about his writing of superhero fiction, he was merely illustrating the difference between what we know as fanfiction today, and what fanfiction started out as. I do agree with you on the fact that it’s not a good idea to say he is an opponent of fanfiction, though.
For fun is fine. the other problem is fanfic of what? A book. okay I see a the point. the narrative is structured and tight. all relationships and events are well defined (assuming it's a well written book). then you have other stories. a fanfic about dark souls for instance would be a very different kettle of fish. the world and it's inhabititants are vaguely defined. the world buidling is seeped in mystery and unknown. it's a world that can draw people in and want to explore that world themselves. basically some works lend themselves to fan creation more than others.
That said, profiting of it when using someone elses work is not something to support at all. it's plagurism. I can't take a tv show and change a few things here and there like lighting and pitch and expect to make money. same principal here.
I think fan fiction is incredible. It teaches (especially younger) people to write and love fiction. And it makes you people read more.
I do have a problem with puplished fan fiction (The Mortal Instruments, Fifty Shades of Grey) because the characters in those stories are not original and not the authors creation. And it kind of bugs me when fan fictions get puplished and all the author does is changing the names of the main character(s).
But fan fiction in general is great.
I think stealing someones world and characters is the laziest thing a writer could possibly do.
@@NoKOzKamui A professional writer who are puplishing thir work, I agree.
But it's a great exercise for new writers, writers suffering from writers block etc.
And it's not stealing if you don't claim it as your own world and or characters.
@@NoKOzKamui I disagree, certain characters and stories become iconic. People have been taking the character of Robin Hood and re-imagining him for years, for example. These re-imaginings can be just as creative as original stories. In some ways it is harder to take an existing character or stoey and change them just enough to be interesting, but not enough to no longer be recognizable.
I'm improving my English by reading fanfic.....
ASOIAF does this though (albeit remarkably well). Jon Snow is a reimagining of the character Aragorn from Tolkien's LOTR series.
And here we have Dan and David writing their own fan fiction and making good money off of it..
he's also making good money from it, I guess he wouldn't mind if someone makes succesful fan fiction and gives him a cut, its just reasonable
what u want is a fan fiction and ur accussing them of writting a fan fiction because ur mad because they arent writting the fan fiction you wanted. let me guess u expect daenerys and jon to be together and jon snow defeating night king with a sword?
@@nunoprazeres9434 ??? what's your point? and why are you assuming things? you also totally contradict yourself. So you can rest easy, I didn't want for d & j to happen, nor do I expect them to ride into sunset, ruling over westeros. What my initial comment implies is that d & d did start writing their own ff, ever since the last book in the series came out & they didn't have ground material anymore.
@@nunoprazeres9434 George only told them the end and not the means to get there... So it is fanfiction with what they did to most of the fantasy element,Sansa,Euron and the whole kingdom of Dorne
Is it really fan fiction if the people writing it are not even fans?
I can't be the only person happy for George? He found happiness, riches, and fame in his old age doing what he loves. Isn't that the dream?
I'd be drunk for 8 hrs a day shopping on Amazon until my house(s) were bursting with throw rugs and artisanal beef jerky. He's keeping it together with humor and staunchness of character; he keeps writing.
If you hate the wait for *this* book, you're gonna be dead or GRRM will... before the last one comes.
I am happy for him as well. And your description is gold! I do however wish he would be a bit more transparant about if he plans on finishing the books. I would understand if he didn’t want to. But after 9 years, I don’t think it’s unreasonable fan s start wondering, with no book release date in sight. I understand it takes time and he might have found more fun projects. Good for him! But a lot of fans were very dissapointed with GOT’s end and seek closure.
This son of bitch needs to finish his shitty edge filled books so i can get some new quality fanfiction
It's odd how he has more of a problem with fan fiction than fan art. People selling fan art seems much more likely than selling fan fiction.
I would Guess its cause one Is written which Is the same activity he does the other Is an activity where he might not have proficiency
True.
Well, that's true and precise.
You can't copyright the description of a character. I can perfectly make a drawning of how I see Jon Snow in my head and sell It, but that's not under copyright because it's the result of my immagination inspired by his work.
I could call the same drawning "Dark and brooding young man with Wolf" and It would be the same.
How you gonna draw when you can't even spell drawing? Also, contrary to popular belief you can't copywrite character names, I could draw a dog right now and call it Mickey mouse, and Disney can't do shit!
@1234 so have we raped Sherlock Holmes or James bond? Since they've been written by some many different authors and producers.
I don't read fanfiction at all but that's a pretty odd way of looking at an homage.
Did Shakespeare rape Julius Cesar? His play is nothing like his real life. Does historic fiction rape the stories of real people?
Spiderman has how many different writers and how many different universes and story lines. Telling new stories with old characters isn't raping anything especially if people understand ... Oh this isn't real.
No disrespect to George, but fan fiction is probably much older than the notion of an individual author "owning" a character or setting as personal property. The Iliad evolved from an oral tradition where people kept adding new verses and episodes. Greek theatre provided multiple takes on the same characters and stories, written by different authors. Arthurian Romances kept on re-using the same setting, characters and plot lines over and over, etc.
It's great to re-invent the wheel by creating a new setting (though even the most original one of those will always draw upon pre-existing motifs and intertextualities), but choosing to write pre-existing chars and settings is not "inferior art" by virtue of that choice. It's pooling creative resources, collaborative art, creating a literary tradition that transcends individual ownership.
Thank you so much for posting the link with the whole interview.
To be honest, when a fan fic writer tries to claim ownership of the property simply because they "wrote it", I agree with George. Using someone's characters is still a greyline in fan fiction, but you don't own the copyright, the intellectual property of that character-- no matter what you do with them-- is not yours to claim.
There are so many GoT theorists out there who have figured out his plan. He's struggling to write different ideas.
The man is older than your grandfather. Off course he's struggling now
Catherine Scott he’s 70
I can totally buy that. There's an interview where he says he had Ned Stark, and Subsequently Robb Stark, killed to defy expectations. As soon it was clear to him that people could see where the saga was going, he could very well have decided he wanted to do it differently, especially since now the show is basically spoiling his original plan for the books.
Ehhhhhhhhhh....I don't think he's struggling to write, I think he's bored of ASoIaF. He's been writing it since what, 1991? He's had other work published between books, so it's not like he's not writing. I think he just doesn't care about it, but is under so many obligations to finish it (fans, corporate contracts, and so on). 10 years is already a long time to work on one story, let alone 28 (or more).
@@BenjaminNixon I wandered across an interesting video here the other day that argued that you can defy expectations in the beginning and middle of a story but it's much harder to defy expectations at the end of one. Because you can have as many twists and turns in the middle as you like but ultimately you have to land an ending that is emotionally satisfying to the readers - and that's going to be intrinsically more predictable.
I don't necessarily agree 100% but that seems basically correct to me. And that makes things challenging when ASoIF's brand is now "prepare to be surprised".
Father George preaches about non-canonical holy texts
Selling fan fiction, or it being published, I've never been a huge fan of but often times you read fanfics that are miles better than the original content, or they take the characters you know and write them into different universes and scenarios. These are incredibly engaging and honestly I have never found issues with this. Not all is good, not all of it makes money, but a lot of it gives future writers confidence and writing experience. That way, maybe new stories will be better.
If your 'writing experience' consists of manufacturing confidence by inflating your ego using the writing skill of someone else, you're not a writer, you're an aspiring con
@@jackstack2136 it's using characters and worldbuilding that's already created and trying to make a new story with it, practising how to write plot and story arcs before inventing your own lore. Honestly it happens enough in differrnt published genres already (look at every lotr rip off, or hunger games wannabe, the entire ya genre post twilight)- I think it's better to have that content on fanfic sites not making money, but getting tons of brutal feedback directly, rather than letting it get published as is with terrible writing and grammar. But clearly you don't feel the same, I don't think I'd go as far to say aspiring cons though. Then again, twilight fanfic gave us 50 shades, which is as derivative as you can get 🤷🏾♀️
@@mirimarina6387 Oh, I have no qualms against harmless fanfiction in a community capacity; I'm referring explicitly to borderline plagiarists who attempt to make money with their writing by, as you said, using someone else's world, characters and plot. It's a breach of copyright law, and rightfully so; you have no right to profit off of anyone else's skill for any reason.
The avenue you describe (showing your work, and allowing constructive criticism to shape your skill over time) is also acceptable, but I personally believe it's a crutch and only teaches you how to follow a trend rather than vibe with your own visions; every medium & every narrative at this point is oversaturated as fuck these days for that reason alone.
WTF, where is everyone?
I've read some fanfic in my day that's honestly been absolutely stellar compared even to officially published books that I've also enjoyed. It makes sense, sometimes the only difference between an accomplished/published author and a struggling one is just that the published author made the right moves/lucked out to get a publishing deal.
So it probably goes without saying that there are some extremely talented people who just happen to write fanfic instead of pouring that time into original concepts. Power to em, I guess. It's the same in the general music and art communities at large, for certain. Some incredibly talented folks who will never become recognized due to some circumstance or another.
But yeah, no, George's experiences and perception on fanfic is probably very fairly tainted by the majority of it, which is pretty abhorrent.
@b king There's some absolutely fantastic stuff out there written by people who don't have the time or inclination to create a book of their own, but do have talent and draw enjoyment from writing and so create fanfic. Yes, something like 99% of it is absolute dreck, but some of it could easily stand side-by-side with published works, and even fewer works could actually be considered flat out better than a large amount of original writing. There are millions of fanworks out there, from tiny poems to multi-million-word epics - probability demands that among those there has to be at least one of equal quality to the work of greats like Shakespeare, Tolstoy, Tolkien, King or Dickens.
Most fanfics are subpar. The authors don't try to take their time to write a story and only use scene before bending them to their fantasy. As such, the writing style is poor and the plot is often shit-tier. The enemies are almost always underrated, and the original story is butchered by wrong information.
@@Asphodel-XIII That is the case with most of them, for sure. However, as with everything, there are exceptions. For a couple of examples, I'd point to something like The Man With No Name, Cauterize or End Of The Line, all of which are excellently written and compelling.
@@Asphodel-XIII There's the saying that 90% of everything is rubbish, well then what about the other 10%. Just because something is a fanfic doesn't mean it's automatically bad. Some fanfics are about fixing things like plot holes/armour/convenience or fleshing out characters that should have been fleshed out in the original or changing the world building elements so they actually make sense and so on. Sometimes these changes are for the worse, sometimes they make it better and the same can be said of people exploring hypothetical scenarios within a story. What if a character did something differently (and was provided with good reasons to do so), what sort of butterfly effect would result.
Alot of fanfiction is trash tier, but the same can be said of alot of published fiction, being published isn't something that magically makes something better, nor is being an 'original' work (especially when alot of original works are extremely derivative). Judge the quality of these things by the metrics by which they should be judged rather than just assuming that something is good or bad because it's a certain type of content.
@@MoffatLee The reality is fan fiction tends to be a lazy endeavor for people that don't know how to develop characters and create the building blocks that make a story successful. While I don't oppose people that do it, I think they are just a bunch of dweebs that don't want to put any real work into anything. Is there good stuff out there- maybe. I don't really care though- because I don't find it interesting. I think it's perfectly okay to make a story that is heavily influenced by particular writers, but for cripes sake try and be original in this world and try to do something exciting and put your efforts into pushing the art further. Too many sheep and wannabes in this world.
Wouldn't the TV series technically be fan fiction
stuckOnDom Wouldn’t you technically be fan fiction
@@SolarTerran only on the weekends
Sort of but no lol, it's a professional adaptation
The only difference is money. If you pay George enough you can rent his intellectual property.
Technically aren't these comments fan fiction?
4:47 George just had a vision of season 8
I think fanfiction can be a beautiful and damaging thing. I understand where he’s coming from, people shouldn’t be allowed to gain profit off of work that isn’t wholly their own. Yet it can be such an amazing thing for fans who miss the fandom and love it so much. I write fanfiction for a couple of fandoms and it’s because I either feel there’s something lacking or I love a character (usually one of the lesser characters or in this case Catelyn, best character in the show) and I want to develop their story and be able to get into their head.
He seems like he is having a great time, and I'm happy for him.
Well, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery! I love "Archive of Our Own"!😊
....but it's the lowest form of creativity.
@@MrParkerman6 Do you realize how long humans have been around? How many stories have been written? Literally, nothing is original anymore. At this point in time imitation is the only form of creativity, unless you are a god and can create something new out of nothing.
MrParkerman6 Really? Some fanfics are highly imaginative, some even better than the original stories! Hate to break it to ya! And these authors do it all for free, all for the passion of the writing. How is that not the most creative thing?
@@MrParkerman6 Some fanfictions are the highest form of creativity.
The only people who say that are people who are too lacking to ever be unique
I wrote a fan fiction 10 years ago in high school and I still get emails from reviewers who loved it. Crazy.
Honestly the outcome of his books can be exactly what happens in the show and it will still be 1,000 times better. I'm happy to wait (hopefully not for too much longer lol). I think he'll finish.
A bitter reminder, 12 years and still no winds
I disagree to a degree. Writing fanfiction has built my writing skills. I needed ready-built worlds and characters when I first started as a building block. Now, I do write my own worlds, characters and stories... but I wouldn't have gotten to where I am without re-writing the stories and relationships of already beloved characters. I've also never sold any fanfiction, so I wasn't hurting the author by profiting off their characters. I can understand that criticism.
Anyone who says "It doesn't have much effect because none of it is very powerful" like that other guy said - or any variation within - doesn't really get it.
Have you heard of commissions? In fan art it's all over, but I've occasionally encountered authors who do fanfiction commissions. I'm staunchly against it. And it seems that people outside of fandoms don't realise it's happening.
Fanfiction and fan art is supposed to be money-free but commissions steps over that line.
I think for them it’s not for when someone starts out and try’s to build on the world but rather when someone uses previous worlds and ideas as a crutch to earn money and noterietay rather than create their own material. Especially for money.
And I think for George there might be some annoyance because people send him their fan fic in order to try and figure out the story and maybe say this is how I want you to write it, when George already has the story written.
I also love writing fan fiction and building on said worlds cause it’s easier to fill in the blanks and people already have a picture of the world in place. But keep in mind it should never go beyond just a way to test your skills at writing and editing, you shouldn’t try selling your fan fiction as a way to earn money. Now if you don’t mind I’m going to post on Facebook on how I think Avenegers Endgame should be written
Obviously you don't have much imagination. All the great writers started by writing their own crappy stories without borrowing or building on someone else's world or characters.
Create your own.
Kathy C She IS creating her own, NOW.
@@Rumkitty2000 That's actually not true. Neil Gaiman, Orson Scott Card, and Lev Grossman are just a number of currently popular writers who all started out writing fanfictions of things they enjoyed.
Mad shade being thrown at the show
Eversor literally no second of a hint towards the show
@@djentleman37his description- Something that takes the world of an author and characters to a different meaning or purpose
Sounds like game of thrones seasons 5, 6, 7 and 8 to me
@Vice TOLUCT if you think grrm likes the glorification of violence in GoT seasons 5-7 you haven't understood why he writes his books
@Vice TOLUCT he's bound by contract there is nothing he can do
@Vice TOLUCT the difference between someone making a key chain and a boardgame to HBO a TV corporation is massive, so I wasn't.
Gorge R. R. Martín arms looks like they're from somebody else hidden behind him
I’ve got nothing against fan fiction, I just think that I prefer stuff that maybe take someone else’s world but tells their own story. Like there was this one piece that I read they believe for a song of ice and fire, where it was just from the perspective of some hasn’t during the war of the Five Kings. It was just like their experience. I like stuff like that, hell I write stuff like that. But I’m not so much a fan of just doing stuff with established characters. Alternate timelines with whole new casts, that stuff rocks, but I guess I’m just not as big a fan of the other stuff. It’s a great starting point though
Who sells fanfiction? Other than that rumor (or I guess the truth?) that Fifty Shades is just Twilight fanfiction with the names replaced, I've never seen fanfics leave fanfic net or AO3.
When my series comes into whatever limelight people give it, I hope people make some great stories with my world. Not for profit, naturally, I'd be miffed at that, but I'd love if people were so inspired by my worlds to write about them too. Hell, I'd be _honored._
For those of you in the future who see this after my books have been published, shout out to you for finding this. Here's one of the Thai Coconut M&M's I'm munching on right now.
Cute that you think you'll ever be a notable or successful writer
@@MemekingSupreme Thank you for the support!
@@MemekingSupreme How unnecessarily unkind.
Bingo Bongo that’s rude. A lot of successful writers start out by writing some sort of fanfiction.
Didn't they recently make a movie out of a fanfiction? I think it's called After or something like that it's no blockbuster but it did make good money
I disagree with him here, it's harmless fun. No one is getting hurt and young writers almost all start with fanfiction. Not trying to be mean, but George is kinda hypocritical here. I know for a fact he wrote a Cthulhu meets Jamie Lannister fanfic. Come on man, just read his book and you see he nicked parts of Love Craft mythos for his own world building. I'm not saying it's bad (completely harmless even) but how isn't that just as bad as fanfiction writers?
"I know for a fact he wrote a Cthulhu meets Jamie Lannister fanfic".
Wat ??
@@MarkHogan994 look it up. Goerge wrote a short fanfiction about Jamie Lannister fighting Cthulhu in his blog. Google it and you'll see I'm not bullsh*ting you.
H.P. Lovecraft's stories are public domain... So technically he's not being hypocritical at all. Still, I see your point and fan fiction doesn't really bother me. It's usually more funny than annoying lol
It sounded to me more like people write stories for his characters/world then send it to him to validate them or maybe even use, like for spin off or what not. Or they don't even do that and then try to sell their stories online using his characters and world. That's fan fiction. Being inspired by other writes to create your own original ideas is not really fan fiction; it is what every writer has been doing since time immemorial.
@@ccreams7850 As far as anyone REALLY knows, that's not what happens.
Fanfiction is just fun and not meant to be taken into context with the original content.
To be fair, you get some crazy people who think they "know" better than original creators - and I hate these people, with a fiery passion (I'm looking to get an original novel published, myself) - but the point of fanfiction still remains:
Fun.
I don't like fan fiction, that's why I no longer watch game of thrones... #thelongshortnight
Janelle Edwards Don’t forget #MadInOneDay
I don't think it was a night. More like a cloud hid the sun for 5 minutes
if he thinks fan fiction is mooching off his work i wonder how he feels about reaction videos lol
Completely different. That's like saying critics are mooching off. They are not adding or changing anything to the material just reaction.
He doesn't say that Fan-Fiction about his work is being sold for money.It can be,and I doubt he would like but it isn't what he said.
He says that for Fan-ART and makes a distinction between the two and says he actually likes Fan-ART.
Fan-FIction he hates because it lacks creativity,kinda like a reaction video.
*hides Elia Martell, Rhaenys, and Aegon Targaryen live aus*
The comic book world is filled with George's definition of fan fiction. The best Batman stories of all time are by fans of Batman using someone else's character in someone else's universe.
Hell, Game of Thrones the TV series is in large part fan fiction.
Officially licensed adaptations are not fanfic.
Neither are former fans being now in charge of official content.
The best Batman stories belong to: Frank Miller/Grant Morrison/Alan Moore
@@BlackCover95 yeah, 90% of ppl that commented don't know the difrence between fan-fic, official spin-off and official adaptation
Yeah and you can clearly tell the lack of quality as soon as the show ran out of source material and had to start writing fan faction, ultimately harming the legacy of the universe as a whole
And now Robert Pattinson is going to become the next batman i think..... >____> I grew up with Christian Bale being batman at the time, so he'll always be my all-time fav. Now I can't stand batman much anymore bc of all the actor changes
Personally I think Fanfiction is great, it gives your world more color and keeps fans interested. However I understand his point in which he doesn't want people to make his characters act different than what he envisioned them to be or to see people change parts of the world he created. But, if the Fanfiction loyally portrays the characters and doesn't change any fundamental elements, they are ultimately writing an alternate ending which he should read because he might enjoy it.
I would argue that taking use of a particularly interesting world or universe is good fanfiction, the best example of this being warhammer 40k. While I probably couldn't match his tone, I certainly think writing the story of a Valyrian slave or Dothraki horse merchant or something like that should not only be permissable but encouraged! There is variety enough in human experience that every universe can have every character, provided this is done with sufficient respect for the source material.
That's a terrible idea cause you'll end up with something like the star wars expanded universe. From a mere glance it looks good but once you start digging into it you start to see the many inconsistencies and contradictions that come with having more than one person working on something. Warhammer 40k has the same problem along with mtg. When you have more than one author things tend to get messy. Occasionally you might get something good but for the most part expect the worst
@@newnamesameperson397 I think the issue you raise is that the writing of most of these stories will be bad, but I think that is overall to the benefit of the setting as a whole.
Like you say, at a glance it's good. At a glance, things happened to the Luke, Leia and the Republic. At a glance, there is depth to this universe like there is to real life.
The contradictions are the same as you'd expect from a real world. Imagine if you took Alex Jones' account of some event and compared it to Hilary Clinton's account of reality. There would be inconsistencies.
So while I agree the writing will be mostly bad, that is due to the writers being mostly bad; and they would've written mostly bad stuff anyway. Let's rather have them write bad stuff that is redeemed by virtue of association to a greater whole.
The entire show's depiction of me was nothing but fan fiction. GRRM's account is the only truth.
What is hype may never die, but rises again, danker and hyper. Long live the Mannis.
Even the bits with you and your daughter?
Don't you have a heathen to burn at the stake somewhere, *Your Grace?*
His grace speaks it true. The show is a bastard born of incest and fan fiction. Let no man claim ignorance as excuse. Hail the Mannis!
then why are you using the tv show version as your profile picture
in this video: old people not understanding fanfiction or the history of fanfiction
Please provide me a reasoned argument as to why fanart is okay and not fanstories, and whats the line there, when does it become not okay? Is a fan comic a piece of fanart or a fanstory?
If George RR Martin has the precise pictorial image of the Iron Thorne and you draw one very close, it does not affect his work or future revelations. His ink is already dry.
On the other hand, some stories can be what he thinks at basic level. It is true that the details differs, but he sells what he writes. If someone comes up close guesses and writes it out on the internet, he might hesitate to write the likes afterword.
Someone in this comments says that George RR Martin might start to hate Fan Fiction because someone came up the very famous theory of R + L = J, before he reveals it. Also, he mentioned that prophecies cannot be understood as they are. But what if everyone (fans) shares the true meanings and futures?
Jon Snow is Targaryen and Stark and a prophesied hero = "Azor Ahai" and he kills his Nissa Nissa = Daenerys, and saves that world from the Others. Or he make a contact like his ancestor did. It could be more intricate than that. We don't possibly know the answers but basically that's it. if so, what motivates George to write such most expected stories, who wrote once "the Red Wedding".
No one want to read your fan fiction
Fan-Art is much better at developing art skills than Fan-Fiction is at writing skills.
I can't answer for others, but I write, and my characters are special to me. The characters, who they are and what they believe, if they love someone etc etc, is something that I work out over time or am inspired to create in a moment, and I want those who might read my work to see them as I portray them. If someone writes about an authors character, those who read the fan's work will inevitably look at the character in a different light.
With art people are creating an image of what they believe they see, or how they interpret a person place or thing, but that doesn't alter who the character is for the people who see it.
I would love to read George RR Martin's version of "My Immortal"
They thought they were immortal; they weren’t. THE END
jk, I’ve never read My Immortal... nor do I plan to.
What, and hate on the Star Wars Expanded universe as well? They're mostly fan fiction, if you think about it.
While I do have my misgivings with fan fiction, I also recognize that it acts as a stepping stone for most modern writers. As they yet lack the skill to develop authentic and interesting characters, basing one off a template gives a writer much more to work on since they already know the character intimately. In such a case, it is like to a painter without the skill to paint free form; they best start with coloring books to develop their aesthetic sense and build their own confidence and style.
While it acts as a writer's training wheels, it also becomes the wall they must learn to overcome. This barrier serves it's purpose through filtering the competition; they must learn characterization and world-building in order to turn a profit with their skills, at least in the Western market.
Also, you can scarcely write anything nowadays without that character or event falling into a known trope. I'll even go as far as to say RR Martin ripped off Tolkien, but the same could be said for most fantasy writers.
Hating fan fiction is mostly an irrational notion, I suppose.
lol, I only accept the original three Star Wars movies as canon. XD
Why would a new writer lack the skill of having imagination? You don't need to borrow someone else's characters to write a story. If you HAVE to do that, it's just showing you've got poor imagination. But I'd dare say that most writers can come up with their own OCs if they want to. I can understand wanting to borrow a world. But not the characters. Create your own adventure with your own characters and put them in someone else's world. At least that way you'd only borrow the setting, but not really step on people's toes by using their characters in the wrong ways. Because most fanfictions don't write the characters as they are. They write them as they want them to be. That's kind of the point. (Most of the time.)
You become good at what you do, I say. You write fanfiction, that's what you become good at, but you'll never get good at building your own worlds if you don't try it. Just as you'll never become good at drawing stuff if you don't try to draw it yourself.
Everyone draws, as you say, inspiration from somewhere. But there's a limit to how much you can use and still call it inspiration. Martin doesn't rip off Tolkien, I don't think. His world is completely different (as much as you can and it still be recognizable fantasy). Most fantasy worlds have elves and dwarfs and orcs or goblins... but nowadays that's just "fantasy" not automatic Tolkien copy. As long as they're not acting and looking like and doing the same things, it's fine.
I feel like GRR Martin is one of the few medieval fantasy authors who doesn't RIP of Tolkien. No white bearded wizard, no Orcs, no Goblins, no Dwarves, no small band of heroes, no magic artifacts. I'd say the closest he gets to Tolkien is the children of the forest being kinda elvish.
@@SHADOW1414 I don't think too many rip off Tolkien. I mean, it's not like you copy anything just because you have orcs and a band of heroes. Like, there are plenty of stories of heroes (with friends) because that's basically what any character would be in a story that's not an anti-hero or a villain. So that's kinda hard to not do. Having orcs and goblins doesn't equal Tolkien either. It's all about how it's made and the about the story arcs and the whole: save the world against overwhelming evil with a random "thing". That's a bit boring and Tolkien-like. But heroes fighting vampires in a city, or heroes teaming up with goblins against something else, or trying to uncover a terrible secret etc etc. That's not very Tolkien-like even if they have a magical thing, orcs, an old wizard, and all that. It's all about the plot and execution. In my opinion of course.
@@SysterYster Oh yeah, I'm not saying that just because you have those elements you're ripping of Tolkien, but how can people say he's ripping of him when he has literally none of the elements of Tolkiens story or world.
@@SHADOW1414 Oooh, I see what you mean. Yeah, I don't get that either. XD GRRM is great and his story is very different from anything Tolkien wrote. :)
That's too bad because fans are probably going to have to finish his book for him. We're gonna have the effing Preston Jacobs ending, where the whole thing is Hodor's wet dream or something.
@@paulthoresen8241 what ending do you think I want?
@@paulthoresen8241 ah, I thought your post said 'you people'
I guess people just like twist endings. I do to as long as they arise organically from the narrative and aren't just lazy
Preston would never have that ending
But, he admit to writing star trek fan fiction before he began writing GoT. How can he say he hates fan fiction, if he partook in writing fan fiction himself?
He didn't write star track fan fiction watch the video again.
@@davidgribble6313. Sorry, I should have clarified that my comment wasn't in this video. His non-fan fiction fan fiction was from another interview he'd done. If I find it, I'll link it.
Even if he ever did, he could have grown to dislike it as he matured as a writer
@@joshuab3918 Of course, but to cast shade upon it like he has, when he himself has already admitted to writing fan fiction, it makes him a hypocrite.
Well, dunno about what he wrote, but you can use the setting but not write stories about the source material characters and events.
And anyway, I know that this is a revolution for some of you, but -gasp- people change.
Maybe he changed idea about this. Maybe he does dislike his previous writing about Luke Skywalker and Vader. I do dislike my hair back in highschool and I advice to not dye your hair bright pink, but this doesn't mean that I am being hypocratical, It Just means that I changed my mind
I love how happy the audience looks when George is speaking
"I've long been an opponent of fanfiction..."
(signs away life's work)
And what does that have to do with fan-fiction?
Movie/series spin-off or adaptation are in no way fanfiction
"Signs away life work" as if he gave someone the right to rewrite he's book, there is no book adaptation in any form(video game, movie, tv series) that doesnt derive from the source material, that's why its called ADAPTATION
@@robertjura9639 it is fanfiction when the adaptation overtakes its source material
@@BarryESchwartz in my opinion bad spin-off is the best word or just fiction, anyway terminology arguing isn't the best, but the point is the tv series doesn t affect the book's so it's a win win for the writer
Like any fandom activity, fanfic is a harmless waste of time. I can’t imagine too many make a dime off it tho
fanfiction is literally the writer version of fan art.
Not exactly. Fan art is a snapshot of a character (or maybe an animation of a scene, if you're really involved). Fanfiction involves actually using those characters, with reactions and thoughts and what-not.
That's why almost all fanfiction seems "off." Martin here is probably distinguishing between a representation of HIS characters in visual art and the bastardizing via SOMEONE ELSE'S representation in fanfiction.
It's like being in a band and covering a song.
@The real Shoujojinos Mikou If you look VERY closely, you'll see that I'm explaining his views. You also might even see that I didn't prescribe to them in any way.
You need to calm down.
The ending of season 8 single-handedly justified fanfiction.
Martin: “write your own damn novel”
Also Martin: “Gandalf should have stayed dead”
Finish your own damn novel George.
lol, did he really say that?
@@ospreyghost6212 ruclips.net/video/3mPkqEqx3Gg/видео.html
He has.
They are called :
Dying of the light, Fevre dream, Armageddon rag, and Windhaven (with Lissa Tuttle) Besides all his other work.
@@Luke-jo4to That makes no sense he said his opinion he didn’t write a fan novel of lord of the rings
Fanfiction is like any other art form there is a huge amount of crap and only a bit of gold.
I can understand his emotional reaction where he doesn't want other people writing his story.
The issue is every story has already been told, when you read enough you realise there's only so many character archetypes that actually work and only so many settings that are actually engaging. Without fanfiction we wouldn't have Sherlock, the person who comes up with an idea is not necessarily the best person to realise it in its full Glory that's why the internet and mashup culture is so important.
Long live the high quality fan fiction.
Fan Fiction can be really REALLY good, talented writers with amazing intentions, etc. what I admire about FanFics is that the authors write 400k+ words of content for FREE, just for the purpose of sharing a story. FanFics that sell for money, however, aren’t part of the spirit of what it’s all about… and I’ve never encountered a FanFic that hides behind a paywall. The worst I have seen, is Fanfic authors releasing their content for free, but if you became a patreon, you could get those chapters early… whether or not that is an issue, should be the discussion
There are some really great ones out there though. Just off the top of my head for ASOIAF I can say that "A Farmer's Tale" by alltheuntold and "The Dragon of Duskendale" by Kerjack are phenomenal. If I had time I could give other great ones. The authors put a great deal of effort into these, it's not like they just forced some random romance into the original plot. Both of these books have their own plots and have expanded upon the ASOIF world in a way that is entirely fitting and satisfying. I greatly recommend both of them.
Omg, he is describing GOT season 7 onward. Presicely.
No. He gave rights to HBO to make the show and is getting paid handsomely. If he has issues with the show's direction, he should have finished the books.
@@abhap13 I'm terma of content, yes, he is.
I agree as far as fan fiction pertaining to individual work. But I see no reason why Star Trek fan fiction is a deal at all. The tv episodes were written by a variety of people anyway.
There are also tones of comic book writers who at some point or another wrote stories about characters as fans that they would one day write for professionally.
And so were all the subsequent novels. The only thing that makes those books "canon" and other fan fiction "not canon" is a licensing agreement. And really...it's all about the money anyway. That's what all of this is about. Creative control over new content until the money is made. Nobody is bitching about Pride, Prejudice & Zombies.
@@courtneydurham8429 Pride and Prejudice was published in 1813 and is in the public domain. There are zero issues with creating and monetising derivative works.
.
TRIVIA: Pride and prejudice was published 5 years before Frankenstein which is also in the public domain. Note though that many of the commonly recognised visual characteristics of Frankenstein's monster come from the 1931 movie by Universal Studios rather than the book and *those* are still protected by intellectual property laws.
he's a perfectionist
he doesn't realize anything when he can't guarantee quality
the man is the definition of 'quality takes time'
his last two ASOIAF novels weren't anywhere near the same quality as the first ones. Time doesn't equal quality in this case and if anything he's written himself into a corner.
@arian dito it’s called lazy with OCD and controlling issues. He’s more about being in control. It’s where he feels important.
I love the guys honesty.
Has an issue with his characters being used, he wants people to flex their own creativity and world building.
But many people write fanfiction stories to increase their writing skill before writing unique stories.
@@martinputt6421 To each their own, I guess, I think GRRM doesn't REALLY hate fan fiction but he encourages aspiring writers to create original worlds and characters themselves as a good practice. But, like I said, to each your own, if you think personally that you, as an aspiring writer, can practice and benefit more through fan fiction, then, by all means, go ahead. But, if you feel like you want to try creating things from scratch, then go ahead too. Whatever works for you.
Rogueo This is like the most relaxed response ever :) It’s really sweet!
So he basically doesn't like the show at this point. Don't blame him, it's as far and as cringy as fan fiction goes.
What a deeply stupid logic
Wouldn't the show just be an official thing though?
I have to disagree with him in a couple of areas:
-Fan ART (drawing a picture of a fictional work you like) is ok but fan FICTION (writing about a fictional work you like) isn't? He doesn't explain the logic there. Does he just not care about drawing because that's not HIS turf? I can't see a good reason for that when they're both just as harmless as each other.
Also, if he doesn't like fan fiction he better hurry up and finish those books. I forget what author it was who said "if you don't want something to be published, BURN it" but it's true. If he dies with those books unfinished, his publisher's going to hire someone else to do it for him.
-I personally believe that in situations where the original creator isn't DOING merch, it should be totally fine for fans to do so instead. The whole problem with fan sold merch is that it takes the money away from the actual creator - but increasingly, works are being created by indie creators with NO interest in merch. Which means fans just don't get merch if they don't make it themselves. And a lot of fans WANT merch. The issue of the creators losing money doesn't exist, because they were never making money in the first place. So why is it a problem in that scenario?
It's still a potential problem because it opens the door to possible brand defamation of the original work.
The original creators losing out on money isn't the only thing at stake here.
Yes, most fan art/fan fiction is harmless, and it sucks when you can't find merch of your favorite indie product. But if fanfiction authors/fan artists were to start creating and distributing NSFW fan works of an indie creator's family-friendly franchise, then those fan writers/artists are smearing the brand, whether they want to admit it or not. (And just like the profit-stealing thing, brand defamation is also grounds for legal action).
If indie creators don't WANT to create merch, that's their loss, and their prerogative as the copyright holder. Assuming they don't want merch made of their product, then fan authors/artists need to respect those wishes, or pay the legal consequences.
So indeed you are right, it is illogical to disagree with fan fiction, but have no problem with fan art, seeing as they're equally potentially harmful in the exact same ways
The only way I can relate it is in DBZ, majority of people make their own storylines and they are very bad. People make fan art and majority of that is pretty good.
I’d say GoT probably has the same problem.
He likes all of the rape and fetish fan art with actual stick figures, but he can't jerk off to written stories. That's his logic.
"Fanart of paintings and pictures is NOT ok, but writing stories about them is." Taking the logic and reversing it.
If he were a visual artist, he would be okay with people writing stories about his pictures, but not painters painting their interpretation of his
I’ve recently been getting ads for some shitty mobile GoT app, did he approve any of that?
The title is misleading, he doesnt say he hates fan fiction, just dislikes it
“I still don’t wanna let crappy products get out there”🤔
Couldnt disagree more with him on this one. I understand being protective of his characters and the like, but unless someones aim is to actually profit of Fan Fiction there shouldn't be anything to worry about. But to pretend like just because youre writing is based on already existing characters that you are not creative is ridicolous and more importantly the worst thing you could tell aspiring writers. Sometimes you are enjoying your favorite stories with characters you love and in your head you come up with a creative scenario to put these characters in, something that the writer will not have thought of but you did. Maybe this is only for your personal enjoyment, or a humorous story, or even more dramatic than usual, regardless there is still a lot of creativity involved when creating a story with already existing characters.
Telling them to quit being lazy is great advice.
@@paulthoresen8241 Christianity, no matter whether you believe or not, did not come from Islam.
However, you are correct that virtually nobody creates a story, for example, from whole cloth. Tolkien quite openly got inspiration from earlier sources and mythologies. I believe one aspect of all of this fan fiction brouhaha is how many FF writers seem to be acting like they know more than GRRM does about his creations. Think about it this way; if you are a chef, catering a meal and you find out the dish washer is taking credit for your cooking, how would you feel?
@@paulthoresen8241 Doesn't work? Read it this time, THEN reply.
Christianity is an alternative to Islam, as well as the reverse being true. Islam is an alternate version of a religion, but Christianity is not an alternate version of it. The grandfather does not come from the grandson.
@@paulthoresen8241 Since the language known as English seems to be foreign to you, no use talking to you.
You sound like a bitter fan fic writer. How hard is it to make up your own world and characters?
Anyone else just love hearing George talk?
I am in awe of the size of this lad absolute unit
There can be good creative fanfic of all the choices he DIDN'T make. The paths he didn't go. Which is why, "what if," for game of thrones channels are so big, and mods like acok 6.2 are so interesting. An even better story COULD have been told.
Poor George, What a great man
I love how he cuts them off when they try to cut him off. Let the man speak damn.
I just want to point out that George himself has written fanfiction of the 'using other characters' type. Back in 2010 he wrote a series of short stories where Jaime Lannister was matched up against characters from other series, including Hermione Granger, Rand Al'Thor, and Cthulhu. It was part of a fantasy tournament for a website (Brandon Sanderson took part as well), but hey, fanfiction is fanfiction.
When is the god damn book going to be finished, George!?!
I agree with George in this point, but my major reason is:
If people can spend so many hours to write fan fiction using others characters, places, universes, etc, why cant they just write their own story?
It sounds difficult at first, but I would more like to ask George how to create an own universe for own literature than asking him if he read my fan fiction.
Not all fanfiction writers are interested in becoming authors and even if they are, a lot of them view writing fanfiction as a separate thing that exercises a different part of their creativity. There are actually some published authors who write fanfiction. Why would a published author who has created a world of their own choose to write fanfiction? Simple, because it scratches at a different kind of itch.
why do copies of adidas, gucci, etc exist? same reason. a noname would not get any traffic selling their noname brands. instead they make fake guccies and adidases and sell those in 3rd world countries and get a ton of traffic. there are a ton of great books out there but they are looked over because they are not a brand like harry potter or game of thrones
As both a fanfic and a aspiring writer I have to say that the reasons I wrote each of them is different . My original stories are more like a serious work , while fanfiction is basically a form to express my love about characters / ships I like & just for my own personal entertainment
@@sofiapavlidou9959 Oh yes, I can definitely understand your point here. Don't know why I hated on fan fiction writers back then - I'm really sorry! :o
With an ending like season 8, you absolutely need fan fiction.
Ehh, I don't think they understand how transformative works using the same characters can actually be good. To each their own, but if my novels were to take off I'd be more than glad to have fanfic writers. That shows a level of love and passion for the series.
@The real Shoujojinos Mikou I am remiss if I didn't say I get where he's coming from and such. However, it is just bad practice. So long as they're not stealing the rights, I see no problem with it. I mean, anime and manga fans sell fan made works all of the time and sell them at Comic Conventions. Which I am not opposed to, because if it is transformative, it is not technically my work but theirs. Sure I may have set the blueprint, but if I created the concept of the wooden house and someone took that concept and made a brick house out of it, it ceases to be my product, doesn't it?
But what about the readers ideas on what characters do and how those same characters react to certain situations? Like for example: why did Dumbledore believe in the prophecy? Or how would Westeros have changed if Robert Baratheon had died at the trident? Or could Anakin Skywalker not have become dark?
Fan Fiction addresses the need of fans to answer many questions that those fans have, plus Fan Fiction allows new writers to stretch their creativity and imagination.
If fanfiction used to mean "fiction written by fans" but it's not about existing characters, then what were they "fans" of? Before he clarifies with the "I didn't write about anyone's characters" his definition of fanfiction implies they're fans of SOMETHING.
[edit: and that SOMETHING they're a fan of is what they're allegedly writing about]
What are you even writing when you write fanfiction when you're not writing about characters you're a "fan" of? ...
...fiction.
I don't understand what "fan" is doing prepositioning the "fiction" in fanfiction. It's both tautology and nonsensical.
He meant fans of a genre, not of actual characters or worlds. He even gave an example, if you were paying attention. He wrote comic book superhero fan fic, not Superman or Batman fan fic. It's really not that hard to understand. Write about fantasy or space adventure, not about Game of Thrones or Star Wars.
@@theshadowfax239 Arthur C Clarke & Isaac Asimov weren't "fans" of sci-fi, they were *authors* of sci-fi.
Original work = original fiction
@@theshadowfax239 It's still an oxymoron.
@@theshadowfax239 His comic books weren't fan fics - they were ORIGINAL works. It doesn't matter that they were inspired by existing, fictional universes, they were HIS creation.
Ergo, it wasn't fan fiction.
He's talking about how the meaning of fan-fiction has changed over time. Fans of comics wrote original and fictional works, that's what it used to mean. Now it's changed.
"but frankly, we don't pay a whole heck of a lot of attention to it"
"Uhuh, 'kay"
*Moving on*
It's very interesting hearing him talk about this now that the leaks about him working intently together with From Software on a game. So after cutting back on doing approvals he must've really seen something that changed his mind when it came to this game. Maybe he like how the souls games don't just hand you exposition about the world and that you have to learn about the lore through your own discoveries. That probably blew him away.