George RR Martin on Criticism of His Writing Style
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- Опубликовано: 19 июн 2024
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A song of ice and fire/Game of Thrones author george rr martin
It’s kinda weird to hear George swearing. Considering the contents of his books, it should be weird NOT to hear him swear
He’s a fat old man
@@fatfrankthepeteacher4237 Make that talented fat old man.
George grew up in the projects. Don't let the media fool you. He's what we call a smart thug.
right!
@@chadthunderkawk1650 Oh, please explain.
"I want to affect the reader emotionally." If ever there was an understatement
Much of the criticism GoT has received about gratuitous sex was specifically about how they depicted rate purely for shock value. Like Sansa‘s wedding - it was just handled lazily, like their goal was to shock and make headlines as opposed to showing character arc and major events in the characters formation. One very simple change was all that was needed to fix all of that valid criticism: move the scene with her in the bathtub with what’s her name skinny bitch (Miranda?) two after the rape scene. And show Sansa as deeply wounded and affected but tough, yeah not willing to give up. She says to Miranda in that bath scene as they showed it “ this is my home & you do not scare me”
George is absolutely right when he says he only shows one actually happens IRL or what did happen in history. Anything humans show in fiction, mo matter how horrible, it’s nothing compared to what we’ve actually done to each other. Rape and torture and starvation and slavery. All that shit was VERY commonplace up until WW2. It didn’t stop after the war, but the percentage of ppl directly suffering it dropped to unprecedented levels and have stayed there ever since. Even with shit like the Rwandan genocide. Even with US forces killing a MILLION Vietnamese in 10 yrs, or 100’s of 1000’s of Iraqis.
We owe ppl like GRRM our gratitude for reminding us what most of history has been like for most ppl.
To me the main human theme of ASoIAF is that “the small folk pay the price”
They fight and kill and die in the battles. They starve when their crops are destroyed. They’re raped and enslaved. Especially the Riverlands. For at least 300 yrs, the Riverlands of Westeros is just constantly getting razed. That’s where the wars are fought bc it’s the Middle Kingdom. It get so ravaged in the first few books, and that is JUST the beginning.
I thought the show (usually) did a good job of showing how the small folk suffer when the Lords and Ladies play their Game of thrones
He scarred the readers emotionally
He sent readers to psych wards
The one thing I love about his writing is he breaks it up into a way where 700- 800 pages seems doable he has a 10-page chapter from a new person's perspective and next thing you know you've read 52 chapters & you're halfway done with the book
How does he keep up with the characters
That's probably because he writes all the chapters out of order. So, he could probably do stand-alone novels of each of his characters. That would be cool.
He writes a character’s chapters individually i.e. he’ll do a set of Arya chapters then Tyrion chapters, then Jon Snow chapters, then when he’s finished he’ll make sure they’re edited so intersecting plot points and character moments will hit properly and then he has a team of editors who reads his chapters for any inconsistencies like if he uses a minor character that already died or wrote about the wrong gender of a horse.
@@sheagaming Gender of horse XD
@@sheagaming that's genius! That way he can write about whatever he wants in a character's perspective without losing the flow, and if he wants something to happen in Westeros he'll just choose to show it from the most interesting POV. Also, if he doesn't feel like writing about a certain event that day, he can just keep writing about other stuff happening in another part of his world.
I love his writing style. I've taken one copy of the Game of Thrones novel that I've highlighted with various colours (dialogue, action, description, inner monologuue) to visualise the balance between him.
just don't do that with the tyrion chapters of Danse my man
H H why what’s wrong with them?
@@HH-cm5rp Now I want to know, too.
@@gaozhi2007 I honestly kinda like his prose, though
I'm a big fan of his writing style, too. My life as an avid reader can be separated by before GRRM and after GRRM. The first time I read A Game of Thrones (long before there was a show) was a revelation. I've reread the series multiple times, as well as his supplemental material, and the Tales of Dunk and Egg novellas. I love this world, I love how GRRM writes it, and I can't get enough.
I cannot get enough of George R. R. Martin. I say this so many times, but Martin is such an inspiration to me as a writer. I agree with him, especially on writing stories on war and gritty events.
I write about war and other series issues as well and I believe in portraying it honestly instead of mildly showing it to my readers. I find sugarcoating an otherwise series topic offensive and dishonest. Readers must not only read a book, they must also experience it. Killing off characters shouldn't be done so lightly. I don't like to kill characters just to be like "oohhh, murder! Death! I am so controversial." I like it when it affects the world, the characters and the story. George R. R. Martin is amazing at what at he does and I think other writers should lean in his direction.
Also, I like the other guy here as well. He seems cool. I really want to pick up something he has written.
A Brief History of Seven Killings. Take it on vacation with you and you'll felt like you went two places instead of one. It's superb.
SAME HERE!!!!!!
You write of war? I hope you arent a feminist
@@PresterMike George rr martin is?
Marlon James is the other guy. I read half of the book of his which is displayed, Black Leopard Red Wolf, and it was really great, but I couldn't understand what was happening after that point, so I had to stop. Not that other people couldn't, I think I'm just dumb.
Well said, George. It's not about how many people die, but WHO dies, and whether you cared about that person.
This is very well known practice TV News use to attract attention. I will give you two examples of TV news spots and tell me which one is more emotionally effective:
1) Last night, a hundred and twenty five people died when a volcano erupted in Italy.
2) Michael Smith, a fifty years old disabled man was murdered during a burglary while he was trying to defend his family.
Yeah, in the context of TV news, what you just highlighted is something SJW's never seem to understand. When Notre Dame burned, people were crying about racism because at the same time people were dying in Arabic countries. It's not about racism, it's about emotional impact.
@@xenondoro8573 Thanks for pointing this out. Notre Dame is a great example of this phenomenon. People were moved by this tragedy, because we felt that we know the building too good. It is one of the most famous buildings in the world. I bet many people care about Notre Dame more than their neighbour's house.
This Notre Dame tragedy also reminds me a lot of the 9/11. Yes, of course it was a great tragedy, thousands of people died. Yet, It's so strange that even I, as a citizen of Czech republic, living tens of thousands of kilometers from the USA feel like 9/11 impacted my life. It actually did, a lot, I even feel weird talking about it. I feel like it's forbidden to even speak about it at all. That's how much media have changed my thinking.
"There's a difference between preponderance and resonance." Wow great quote from Marlon James. And he just thew it out there. You can tell he's a writer (talented with crafting words) but not a trained actor or public speaker (because he didn't slow it down or pause it to let the audience absorb his spoken words).
First time I have been introduced to this author and he stands up and is impressive even right next to Martin
This is the best GRRM interview I've seen on RUclips. Shows why his books are so affecting.
He loves writing! It’s obvious
I love when he calls out the 'fucking idiots', cause there is valid criticism and bullshit criticism and ain't written nowere you have to take the bullshit laying down
God I love George
I'm so inspired by him as a writer. I aspire to be as great.
Yeah me too. Good Luck.
One of the finest in our generation
Me too. Currently I am writing a grimdark epic fantasy novel too and I'm following all of his advice
@@xtian_perez Nearly a year later, how’s that book going?
@@xtian_perez I might be interested.😀
As a person who eats food, I'm not sure there's such a thing as a gratuitous feast. Er, actually, I guess every feast is kind of gratuitous, but that's sort of the point, innit?
Who's the other author? He seems interesting, I wanna check out his books. Edit: found him, his name is Marlon James
Did you deduce that from the book sitting on the table or the Marlon James in the interview?
I came to the comments to see if anyone had posted his name. Thanking you good sir 😊
Marlon studied under the tutelage of the same professors I did, just not the same years. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. Very pleased for his success as my fellow alum!
I haven't read any of the works of Marlon James, yet, but what I do know about him is that he is the winner of the most prestigious literary prize in the United Kingdom, the world renowned Booker Prize. So, it can be said he is a writer of tremendous talent.
Thank you.
"If you're not having gratuitous sex, what are you having ?" Truer words have never been spoken. Respekt.
Season 7 and 8 were basically the cliff notes. The reason the show became so huge is that there was so much fluff, stuff that had nothing to do with the overall plot, but which added the spice to the recipe. The banter between Tryrion and Bron, the Hound and Arya, Ramsey and Reek.
Those were not cliff notes, they weren’t even the story... they were entirely garbage. Tbh the show had seaso 1 which was an okay cliff notes like telling of the story of AGOG, but the rest lost the meaning and themes.
The show glorified badassery, war, and shit that is antithetical to the books. Martin uses the story to show how HORRIBLE war is, and how corrupt and conflicting the motivations behind nobility are leaving the common man to be put through the slaughter... reread the chapter on broken men from Septon Meribald- the show even omitted that was an egregiously stupid Easter egg to it.
Martin is not gratuitous in a way that he’s exploiting shock factor (though HBO did use it that way), he’s telling a REAL story in a FANTASY world. Every scene serves a literary purpose and is masterfully written in some of the best prose in modern literature.
@@factbeaglesarebest Wah wah.
What fluff? You mean that season 7 and 8 were fluff? Cause those def were. Idk what show you watched 😅
7:30 so you wouldn't kill Cersei and Jaime with a ceiling?
Love how everyone online is a mindreader
Wow I love this one because he answered with so much passion. I love the points he makes about these things "illuminate the character" which is true, those things immerse you in their lives and world
Your uploads are more consistent than Georgy boi
Aren’t you just so clever
@The Law the problem with the books now is, Dumb&Dumber have massacred the tv show....... and probably fucked Georges plans right outta the ballpark 🤷♂️
It's almost as if uploading preexisting five minute clips is easier than crafting the next gigantic chapter in one of the greatest fantasy stories ever written all while working on other projects and the inherent motivational issues entangled with working on the same story for so long.
@@BionicleSaurus yeah his point still stands
@@raben7049 no it doesn't. It's a stupid point and you're a stupid person.
"Violence should be violent, sex should be sexy, and death should have the impact of death."
Basically the entire video in one sentence.
George RR Martin and Marlon James on Criticism of Their Writing Style
Im fine with this.
George R. R. Martin on his writing style: amateur authors only dream of being the ones who wrote my books.
Amateur author critics: *crying inside*
Shion Kreth I don't wish I was the one who wrote his books, I wish I could write that well.
Definitly true, although I am pleased With what I write as well, even if it isnt nearly as good
"When Tom Cruise is in a movie, you know he's gonna make it to the end."
Makes me think of the one tolerable Steven Segal movie I've seen: that air force one flick where he dies five minutes in or whatever it was.
Executive Decision... Kurt Russel, playing a military consultant, ended up being the main character. I really liked that movie as a kid.
@@cruddddddddddddddd THAT'S what it was! Thanks
My only criticism for George is that he didn't see through D&D's bullshit when they first met with him
Can't blame George for that though
@@valerieprindle8097According to him, he trusted them simply because they knew who's Jon's mother was. So...
Luciano Fernandez His mother is Wylla. So they’re wrong.
@@PwnZombie I'm affraid we'll never find out.
Nasser Feed to be fair to D&D, George thought he would have finished the books so they could simply just adapt the books. D&D did a great job when they were just adapting the books and you can’t deny that.
Marlon James is a very talented writer by the way guys! Check him out
Yep. I want to check him out. My next read may be him.
One of the best answers I ever seen, George R.R. Martin is the GREATEST!
Excellent interview with George and Marlon. Marlon is injecting truth into the conversation. I’m enjoying George speaking his mind the way he sees fit. 6:20 Even when I notice the seeds being sown in one of George’s books it comes as a surprise and I want to see how it plays out.
I do fcking love the way that George talks. Including emotion and how is everyone affected by it in daily life, specially in a case of death, and avoid the fake emotionless scenes we are used to from movies.
He is a freaking genius and one of the greatest authors of this century .
This is a great talk. I'm not sure if I've ever heard George so animated. And it really has me stoked to pick up Black Leopard
I’ve never heard of people complaining about gratuitous sex and violence in the books. Most of that criticism came from and after the HBO show.
Interesting discussion, and I personally feel the same way. I like my books violent and raw, not namby-pamby. But that being said: I also believe there is room in fiction for unrealistic and subdued or sentimental works as well. To each their own.
When Martin talks about wanting us to grieve for his characters, I felt that. Not sure why, but when the Hound died in the TV show, I felt grief like a real person had died. Strange feeling
This is the first I've heard of Marlon James, but I think I'm going to have to pick up some of his books.
This series which I am bingwatching now, has reminded me of what I don't want to believe about human nature but in reality part of our world. I hate this. I want our world to be better. The scene where the people where they are building a town around non-violence and then they are killed for not defending themselves...wow...that hit home. You can only take the pacifist so far until you become a martar or a victim. That is just reality. And he nails that for me and very personally.
@sl5311 What's the show?
A lesson that is constantly taught during human history is the fact that people who dont lift a finger to defend their lives and homes deserve to be subjegated.
I love hearing George swear. I'm literally laughing out loud about how effective his use of 'fuck' is.
I could listen to GRRM all day he’s a fantastic public speaker
Hope to enjoy Marlon James. Have his book haven't started.
Gratuitous basically means they're put off by it. Ive heard gratuitous for violence, sex and profanity, but i never hear the word for other cleaner things that also happen to be "filler" and dont move the plot along.
Well you can’t please everyone
I'm pleased that he brought up the gunsmoke analogy haha, very true indeed.
Dan and Dave could have definitely used that advice at 1:12.
I take inspiration from his style too, I'm never gonna finish my book.
The details are what made me loved GRRM's writing. He's too elaborate and graphic, and I like it.
Where can I find this full interview?
Here you go friend
m.ruclips.net/video/S9AxEjlj1Q8/видео.html
Gratuitous use of the word "had."
So interesting to hear GRRM reference Frank Herbert's Dune and its characters.
my grandmother was 1 of 13, only 7 of them made it past 5yrs
I agree with him buuuut if you're (for whatever reason) writing about a war story and your audience are children then obviously you have to make it clean but I totally agree if you're going to write about something do it properly or at least as well as you can. You connect with your readers through the mundane or very human things rather than killing zombies and riding dragons. Very inspiring writer.
i totally agree with the offensive clean violence.
Good video to watch while breaking my fast
To be sure
I see what u did there
He has also written some extraordinary short stories.
Amazing video🎥👍🔥🎥👍🔥
I fucking love this guy. A man after my own heart, and think many others would say the same.
Holy shit I was just watching this for Grrm and then suddenly I hear Marlon James’ voice? That’s like eating chocolate ice cream then discovering it has a delicious peanut butter swirl
Truly are one of the worlds greatest writers and thinkers
No one:
GRRM: I want you to feel death, I want you to feel as if a loved one died
I mean he was specifically asked
He was specifically asked, so bad meme.
I love his style and I love his stories
That point Marlon James made about Jane Eyre made me crack up
I take inspiration from his writing style, it’s gripping
“There’s something offensive about clean violence” looking at you Wolverine pre-Logan lmao
george is right..today i just read the part where ygritte dies. and even if i knew it is going to happen, it still got me...
I'm writing a book that I think George might like. I was 13 when I had the idea, and then I found out there are similar books to my idea so I had to read them so I could avoid copy writing without knowing.
I'm writing about an immortal person, 100% immortal plot armor. And I want to start it off tribal, and as my character travels he will come to realize a hundred years have passed and the people he knew are all dead, but he's not aged. More time will pass as he wanders into cities that keep changing when he comes back to them. Slowly realizing that he would never die and never gain the human to human connections he had at the beginning. Really leaning into the plot armor being more of a curse, and still is powerless to stop evil kings to petty murders all the time, trying to be "the hero" but keeps losing himself, memories being cut randomly. Wishing to die but it will never happen no matter what he does, just comes right back. Really looking into "purpose" philosophically vs. "just living"
There will be "magic" but I'm working on how to make it into science, I want there to be an advanced world before the start of the story, that collapses and the left over tech is what's magical, something like genetic manipulations fulfilling our fantasy itch for real life dragons and unicorns, or nano machines that give the appearance that people can manipulate fire and water, and levitate, to them its just "magic" but they have no idea its nano machines.... my problem is it seems too easy of an explanation/ not real enough.
Sounds really good. I would love to read that
Perhaps the newer civilizations that exist in the beginning of the story, the ones who are dealing with the left over technology, explain these techs through their own myths/religions, much like modern folk do to any invention of the past that they cannot readily understand.
Who is the other writer (?) on stage?
Can you please tag other authors in these interviews
George is going off rn
Where's the full interview? I wanna see the whole thing.
I think I found it nvm
@@FR_N-do4xi drop the link doe
Does anyone know who the other author is? I love what he has to say!
I like to hear him talk about death because I really cried hard with the red wedding 😭
Brilliant!
When is this from? I’ve never heard George speak like this in any other interview which means I feel like he bullshits through other ones because this is him being unfiltered. I’d love to hear a fan who knows his shit question him on shit with this attitude maybe we’d figure out why he can’t finish the series. Maybe he’ll admit the TV show changed how he felt about characters because it’s obvious. He can write Arianne Martell and Young Griff so easily because they’ve never been in the show, but he prob hasn’t written a Jon or a Bran chapter in years.
I learned a new word watching this: compunction. 4:09 I always though the phrase is "without compulsion." Go figure.
Never heard him say ''fuck'' before, let alone twice. Damn.
Who is the the other author?
He's spot on about his food writing making you hungry, never thought I'd want to eat Heron until I read ASOIAF
Who is the other writer?
🇧🇷Um exímeo escritor ...O melhor da atualidade...Brasil ama você Mr.R.R.Martin anyway... 🎼📚
George, you forgot...
gratuitous missed deadines
gratuitous sailor-hats
gratuitous santa-claus-beards
gratuitous plaid shirts
gratuitous suspenders
gratuitous jersey-accent
Gratuitous food scenes are why I read asoiaf.
Who are the other people talking? They’re interesting
Who is the other author speaking here?
Praise Jah
I don't know who the other author is, but I just wanted to point out that his point about medieval people not making it to 51 is a common misunderstanding caused by a quirk of cognition. You'll sometimes hear it said that people "only lived to be _35."_ This is because of statistical averages, and those can't give you the whole picture. The more infants die, for example, the farther down they drag the numbers, and they didn't exactly have modern medicine back then. Still doesn't make it more likely you'll die at 51 than at 50 except as a natural consequence of having not died yet.
That's Marlon James. And yes, you are right. Sure, not a lot of people got to 80+ years old, simply because your first heart attack was also your last. But the average largely comes from the high rates of infant death - and from women dying in child birth. That was the most common killer amongst females since the bronze age (and likely even further into the past). If you give birth 10+ times, chances are high that you will experience fatal complications. A lot of women died in their fertile years, dragging the average further down.
Steffi S - Well, Eleanor of Aquitaine had twelve children, and only two died before five years old, whereas her youngest daughter Joan ex-Queen of Sicily and Countess of Toulouse, had five miscarriages, which probably killed her, trying to have them to close together, before she could recover.
Likewise, late fifties was old, but William Marshal led the cavalry charge which defeated the rebel barons who had invited the French King to replace John (because John was his vassal, he sent his son, instead) in his seventies so that Henry III could keep the throne (and William could be head of the Regency Council).
More of a long tail situation than today, that’s all.
He is genius, fucking genius, he is underrated.
Lol he is not underrated
Who is the other author?
Woah.
*Insert original comment about how I love George but hated the show's ending.
Who was the male interviewer?? He is phenomenal!
1:53 same
90% of the comments here ask who the other author is 😂
But it’s a nice video
Damn they are right, like in star wars the blow up like 5 planets or half the planet and dont have an any impact at all
The only part of his style I don't really like is the written out sound effects. "AAAAAAAAooo. EEEEEEEeeeee" And so forth. The rest of it's great.
This is so interesting
I have never read Song of Ice and Fire: are the sex scenes always from a male perspective? or do the parts meant to arouse you always focus on a woman performing sexiness?
Because I understand the criticism of such monolithic writing.
But is there is varience in that and, as he explained himself, there is a lot of story relevance; I have no complaints, in fact I would love that!
No, the sex is portrayed from both male and female perspectives and there is as much description of male anatomy as there is for the female. Besides, there really isn't even that much sex in the books, especially considering how long they are. Read them, they are fantastic. I've never read any book more than twice before and I'm on my 5th time through the series. Most immersive books I've ever encountered.
@@joezuu I agree with you. He's the best... This george
It changes depending of the POV on the chapter. It its extremely graphical and detailed, specially with the last books, depending of the context, if its a good context, You actually get kind of horny (very horny) and aroused, on the other hand if its a bad context you can get extremely disturbed, freak out and anxious as fuck.
Great books, but you should left any taboo on the door before diving in.
Space break-sex is mostly relevant for age-restrictions, isn't it?
Well GRRM will like my war scenes in my book then.
These interviewers seem more open and intelligent than the ones in the sexism/racism interview
George RR Martin swearing is insanely entertaining
I appreciate his style because he goes so far into the "gratuitous" details.
did that guy really have to "hm" 75 times? jesus. put your microphone down.
Hm.
same.
Well they're having a conversation. It's annoying from the outside, but I can tell you from experience that when people don't respond it feels like your words are just falling into empty space.
The said these these but I heard D & D. Subliminal hate coming up in me.
simple fact: if you don't describe these things, then you missconvey the motivations of the character. if Tyrion didn't have a gratuitous relationship with Shae, then why would he be emotionally affected for a whore just being a whore and whoreing around. no, tyrion desires her. covets her. he killed for her. then when she betrayed him, he killed her. the whole of kings landing shouted for his head to come off, but it was HER voice that had to be punished for betrayal.
Weird that they're complaining about his books being gratuitously violent. (He's talking like it's the Manga Vinland Saga.)
I thought the writing complaint would be medieval period charter's tossing offensive dialogue left and right!
@@grant4594 Yep. The most
disappointing thing for
me about Game of Throne's
is mostly how slow and
mudane/not gory it
feels. Fire& Blood
however just went full
out on the Shock Value
and I read that before
the main books so
I might be desensitized.
It mostly comes off
as edgy dribble for
me with some
awesome moments
there and there.
If you want an controversial
book with no controversy
I'd say read Wings of Fire!
It's like a more brutal
better written reverse
Game of Thrones.
(It's kinda cheesy
though)
It's 1st book prologue
alone is far more
shocking than the
GOT Opening
Prologue and it's
for kids!
I think somebody
did complain about
it's violent content
though since the
newer books
I read 7-9
weren't that scary.
Could be
wrong though.
The problem with his style is THE SPEED
🙂👌🏾