@@ScipioMexicanus That's how over half of the STD's started. Some idiot thought: "Hey, I know feces comes out of that hole, but I wonder what it'd feel like if I put my wang in it." or "I know that's a horse and all, but..."
Parasite (the oscar winning Korean movie) was described as diverse despite the fact every cast member is Korean. Maybe what people want is quality entertainment from a variety of backgrounds instead of each story having to meet an arbitrary and phoney diversity quota.
Tell that to many Americans and they'll call you racist and a bigot... I mean pretension and superficial "representation" is unfortunately becoming part of the culture.
The problem with "diversity" in movies is that it's only skin deep. People will toss in one black guy, maybe sprinkle a Mexican or an Asian here, then call it diverse. Skin color isn't what makes us diverse; cultures are. I would LOVE to see a movie tackle and genuinely show an affection towards multiple cultures, as I'm always interested in learning more about the world. But Hollywood doesn't care about that. The only thing that matters to them is: "Okay, so we have a black guy, a jew, a Russian, a Korean. Anything else?" "How about a Mexican?" "Brilliant idea, Bob!"
The issue with that is that some cultures have affectations that wouldn't work well if portrayed accurately and when you ask some Jewish kid from a wealthy part of New York to write about black people you're going to end up with a stereotype. As a result films tend to go with skin deep diversity (i.e. a black guy who is written as being a white guy) or a stereotype who gets killed off by a writer that doesn't know what to do with him.
That's because they only care about diversity of colour. In their minds non white = diverse. They don't understand what actually makes people different, infact they actively shut down anyone who says people are not all the same. In their desperation to fight racism they became racist.
Well said. Diversity isn’t something that ends at surface levels. Its a shame most of the stuff that is on TV right now isnt interested in delving deeper.
That used to be referred to as "demographics' in the 2000s. The idea that say if you cast Jackie Chan in your movie then it would attract a big Chinese audience. But that word seems to have disappeared and replaced with 'diversity' probably because Hollywood executives can sell the term with more positive connotations as it's more about being 'inclusive' than about profits.
One of the best examples of diversity in my mind is Avatar the last Airbender series. Not only is each nation unique in culture and identity, the people of the world don’t all fall under a set stereotype for their nation. In each character their national origin isn’t the end all be all of their characterization or personality.
Look at the Fire Nation. Zuko Zhao Iroh Azula Ty Lee Mai Jong Jong Piando. Ozai All of them fire nation, but all of them are distinct characters and personalities. They are not defined by their nation, but rather what their nation means to them, and what they feel is best for it.
Star Trek treated race fundamentally differently than most overtly and deliberately diverse science fiction today. In the world of Star Trek, differences between races among humans were about as interesting and meaningful as differences in eye color is for us. Race didn't really matter to them, as you might expect of a humanity that managed to traverse the stars. Conversely, much science fiction that attempts to be diverse ends up looking silly when you have humans in the 26th century having the same racial hangups as we do in 2020. It's hamfisted and it makes a piece of work age poorly. It's like if Jules Verne made a whole series where the human race of the future was preoccupied with making hot air balloons bigger and faster because people really cared about balloon travel in his day.
@Wil Sain I'll assume you're writing in good faith and not trolling. I don't think you have any basis to say that the Federation treated everyone as white and European. Humanism was their guiding philosophy. Unless you think humanism is inherently white and European, in which case I shudder to think about what values you associate with other colors and cultures. Even calling it "gentrifying" the galaxy is putting a weird 2020 spin on the 23rd century. It would be like if an Inquisitor from the 15th century looked at our world and was still really concerned about who was a true Catholic and who was a heretic. It's a regressive way to look at the future. The implicit point is that humanity never would have made it to the level of having an interstellar federation if they never got over a preoccupation with race (which has itself only existed for the last few hundred years). They would have destroyed themselves long before that. As a matter of fact, humanity nearly did destroy itself a few times in the Star Trek timeline. Star Trek doesn't really tell us much about how people eventually got over it, except that it took a few near-extinction level events as well as a almost perfect solution to scarcity. But we got over it.
Honestly, I think a Fantasy series based on the world and mythology of medieval Africa or Asia would be really cool, unique and interesting to see and read about. More diversity in that regard is needed. But there can’t be any white people in those stories, except as traders maybe, because it wouldn’t fit, just as random black people in Westeros would be completely out of place. Or, you could try a whole mesh of cultures and peoples, just don’t expect it to be as coherent as one based on one or the other. But if your idea is to have a world of European origins, you can’t throw racial minorities in just because. They need to have an actual thematic and lore based reason to be there beyond appealing to modern journalists so they’ll write articles about your book that no one in the general public will ever want to read.
That depends, for example the Roman Empire was a pretty diverse place, if there are large, multicontinental empires there can very well be such diversity
@Longshanks I agree. This is actually the reason I couldn't enjoy the Witcher TV show. There were a lot of black people in it and this wasn't addressed at all, which seemed so unrealistic. I mean, in a world in which you get treated like shit for having superpowers and being a white person who looks slightly different (the witchers), non-whites (mostly blacks) with magic powers get treated like just another person. It was so incoherent and it clearly was with the purpose of appeasing the Social Justice types, especially after they complained so much about that when The Witcher 3 came out. Fake or forced diversity as I call it, to appease the mob of brainless Social Justice people. As a non-white, I'm concerned about the repercussion of these actions because I think this is alienating a lot of white people (at least those without white guilt, which is very popular these days) and many of them are going to rightfully get angry about being constantly attacked and wrongfully come after everyone who they perceive as their enemy.
@@jaojao1768 the Roman empire was diverse because Rome conquered nearly half the known world. Rome was still full of Romans, in fact, not everyone from the empire was allowed in Rome. You can say this about literally any empire. I guess Britain was a very "diverse" place as well.
@@CatsClaws. the Roman Empire was very different from the empires of the 19th century in that they were willing to integrate local peoples and their traditions. People from all parts of the empire joined the army and could rise through the ranks, some even becoming emperors, and the city of Rome had notable communities of foreigners
It's almost like there's a difference between Scandinavians and the Scottish, or the English and the French, or the Italians and the Germans, etc etc. Who woulda thought?!
@@BanditoBurrito well Italians and German are a lot different, Italians weren't considered white 😅 look at Simpson episode where they put Portugal playing soccer, they made portuguese people black, because they are latins 😂
@MarkThisWayAfter I hate those people, im Brown and they reduce all of us as non-white, we are all the same to them, they believe all of us are underprivileged uneducated and need to be offended and speak on our behalf. Fuck them.
Have you noticed that when he gets asked a deep question he first goes to the people he admires and who’s shoulders he stands on, instead of his own opinion, it shows he doesn’t think of himself as an all knowing guru just an old dude who can right kick ass fantasy novels
Things must always make sense within the context of the story. Diversity for diversity’s sake is just one dimensional and insulting to the audience’s intelligence.
You would think so until you realize how many people are going apeshit for an arbitrarily black little mermaid. Idc what color she is she's the same character staring in a movie I have no plan of watching because I'm a grown man but I guess its a big deal to allot of people
@@josephleece682 She was originally white and is based on European mythology. I think that's why people are so upset about it. Kinda reminds me when some people complained about the Witcher(a Polish game based on Polish mythology)videogame on not having Africans/darker skinned people
@@Sorry_2026 I get it but pick your battles. And sorry I was saying apeshit in a positive context, I mean that's some kind of victory to the general public it seems and so when you talk about diversity for diversity sake insulting the audience intelligence i find it funny because it seems most people don't have the intelligence to realize it's the exact same story just with a new filter applied and they think it makes a real difference. It doesn't really. You can alter race in pretty much any meaningful story and the story stays the same. I see people crying about stuff like gods of Egypt being so white casting wise and I think that's equally dumb
@@Sorry_2026 i can respect that. I really can. It's just that it's a slippery shoe because then you're bordering the cultural appropriation argument. The only counter point that makes me question myself on this that I can think of is using propaganda to rewrite history
Diversity in nowadays movies is all about quotas of representation, when it should be about really going deep in diverse cultural contexts. That would be a 1000 times more interesting.
Diversity is great. It can make a story more complex, make certain characters stand out or give them different motivations, and it will appeal to a wider audience. However diversity for diversity's sake will have the opposite effect, it will downgrade stories by making people or places seem out of place. A story in a Medieval European setting, or Viking-age Scandinavia, will have primarily white characters who will not be openly gay or transgender, that's just not historically accurate to our world's versions of those times. But on the other hand, it remains Fantasy so the writer can do whatever the fuck he wants, as long as it's written fittingly into the story.
Miguel Montenegro: What do you mean ‘No’? I just stated a fact. Europe is historically white, and most fantasy is based on European-medieval times. It’s not racist to be historically accurate, if that’s what you’re implying. But yeah: adding Asians into a movie, just so there are Asians in the movie, does make it more diverse, but people don’t fall for *forced diversity* BS anymore.
I am a Latin American female. When I was growing up, if I picked up say, an English book, I expected mostly English characters. When I picked up a South American novel, I expected South American characters. In a Swedish children's book there would be Swedish characters. In a Costa Rican one, Costa Rican characters. Same thing with movies and TV shows. This diversity stuff never entered the equation. Now there are black and Asian Norse gods. That may be politically correct, but it's untrue.
Also if there is (just a example) a black guy in a norse village in a movie or whatever, I expect to learn more about him. If there is just a black guy in a norse village for diversity than it ruins the immersion. Same of there was a old african tribe and there what a white guy in it just for the diversity, that could ruin the whole experience.
@@QualityPen Bridgerton has a black queen so that may be what you're thinking of, but it's an alternative history. plus the queen she's loosely based on may or may not have some black heritage, it's debated.
@@Markuden we're taking a very extreme example here. I’m not a history major so I don’t honestly know when the first black people started appearing in Scandinavia, it may have been Viking times for all I know, or later. I also do assume it is much later but I don’t honestly know enough about vikings to know that. I know that there are a lot of non-white communities in Russia that have been around for a very long time which do not get talked about a lot. What I do know is that racial diversity in general is a lot older than we think it is, the narrative is that it is a recent event is false. I know for a fact that there were black nobles in Georgian times, and possibly even earlier. We have a view of the past which is based on the films and shows of the early 20th century. Unfortunately this was a point in time where there was a lot of institutional racism so casts were completely white regardless of the setting. So it is an illusion that all these cultures were 100% white, when they may not have been. Modern shows are simply breaking away from the 20th century way of doing things. At the end of the day, even if it is based on history, it’s still fiction so it doesn’t need to be completely accurate. Are we going to pretend Braveheart or Gladiator are historical documentaries too? I get it if it spoils your enjoyment when things seem inaccurate (I certainly find myself incapable of fully enjoying these two examples).
As a Black person, I hate diversity in anything when it's forced. When there was diversity in old mediums, it was just there, it wasn't force fed to you or put into the foreground. I respect his response because it comes from a creator that respects art over politics.
I think black people want to see great black characters that can be enjoyed by everybody. I mean, what's a better sign of success for black people than being admired or loved by different social groups? Take Michael Jordan for example, who is admired by millions and he is obviously a black man. His success has nothing to do with race, but rather he is a great athlete.
The problem isn’t trying to shove a character of color into a story, that always feels forced and devalued. The problem is that there aren’t enough writers, editors and producers of color, who want to tell great stories about characters of color. Producers who don’t know writers and directors of color wind up with networks devoid of color. Newspapers and magazines have the same problem.
@@JasonBoyce given more than 90% of the world and most countries are non-White, I'd say there's plenty of writers, editors and producers "of color". Most of them, in fact. And watching any Korean drama or a Nollywood film will show you they couldn't give less of a shity about "diversity". So I think you just have a problem with White people.
Bit of a tangent but for me Finn in the new star wars is such a terrible character and he had all the potential to be one of the greatest characters in the franchise. Finn is a child soldier trained at birth under Empire, had a change of heart amidst a battle and bravely escaped and went rogue. Just by that backdrop you could only expect a competent reserved trained soldier who lacks social skills and personal intimacy but would be experienced in general soldier activities. A character whose narrative arc shouldnt have been the little engine that could and more the stoic badass learning to open up and trusting others. Instead they made him the comic relief and incompetent to promote the hypercompetence of white woman Rey, when they could have equally pulled their own weight and admired and respected each others skills and discipline under pressure. The scene from the beginning where first order shows up should have been the only time you see Finn get nervous and break composure, it would set the tone for how dangerous first order is if this fucking chad is tripping. Instead he freaked out about everything even though his whole life up to that point was being conditioned as a soldier by extremist army. And people had the audacity to cheer on the blatant butchering of the characters potential.
All "diversity" that is forced is bad for the story, both for the story itself and for the writer. When i indulge in a story i want it to be engaging, i want it to be something where the universe it takes place in has you so immersed that you almost feel lost when it's over. One thing that breaks that immersion though, one thing that takes that story and just makes it a nightmare instead is when "diversity" is introduced either in new or existing works and creates a character that isn't so much a character as a template with only superficial attributes. As an example we'll take Hyle, Hyle was born under the starry skies near a road leading home. Born might be the wrong word though, he was saved from the accident which killed both of his parents, his mother only barely managing to survive long enough to hear her son's first scream as he was removed from her broken body. Hyle didn't know much about how his parents died, he grew up on a farm and his new family loved him like their own, but he never quite felt like everything was right, something always nagged at him and as he grew up the feeling only got stronger. On a day like many before, after working since sunrise and gazing out across the yellow fields he'd so painstakingly tended to, he noticed a couple coming up to the farm and to his surprise they stopped often and looked around them, almost as if lost. Strangers don't come around often in those parts and even though he was still young and loved the occasional mischief it was only proper to greet these people and offer help, after all new friendships are easier won with kindness than a mean jape. The meeting he had that day would be the start of a new life for Hyle, and from that moment on he finally felt at home. Nothing in this story describes Hyle's appearance, in fact nothing in the story shows that Hyle is even a human. You've built up an image in your head about what Hyle looks like, you've built up an image of some of his woes, and that's what he's like to you. Hyle wouldn't have benefited from being white, or black, or red, or green, or octarin, that's not important, what's important is what Hyle is like, what kind of character he is and how he can develop based on that. And just from reading this you can't tell who i am, my skin colour, my nationality or ethnicity, even what languages i speak or what i think about anything else than this story, and who i am is inconsequential, what matters is the story that i write, i could be black and write about the struggles of the people under the Soviet Union and how a poor Jewish family fled there from Poland at the beginning of WWII and it wouldn't matter as long as i write the story right and i don't make it just about things that have no actual meaning.
Fever Dream is brilliant. First of his books I read after asoiaf. It was actualy reading it that I first thought that maybe asoiaf is indeed a post apocalyptic series and not a purely fantasy one. Then of course I found that I was far from the first one to think so...
@Admire Kashiri It's not easy to fit in a genre or avoiding spoilers: It's a cross between Stoker's Dracula (but not boring) and Huckleberry Finn. Well worth a read. I hoped Martin would write a sequel, not that it needs one being a full story with start and satisfying end, but I doubt that he will find the time.
@@tomost3891 I read it. I can see the great quality but I'm afraid that I can't quite 'get it'. I have the spirituality of a kettle, it's a limit of mine, the more profound meanings of the story just fly over my head. I kept thinking that the fella should have blown up the whole shebang before it was too late.
Racial Diversity in fiction is great when it makes sense. Done properly it can enrich a world and make it feel more loved in. When done improperly it can come off as jarring (Recent Dr. Who), Pandering (ST:D/Picard) or simply pointless (Netflix Witcher).
It's never really pointless. The current issue is that due to a lot of roles in books being exclusively white, this creates an influx of famous white actors. Subsequently, roles that don't have a racial prerequisite get filled more disproportionately with white actors, since there is this larger base line of famous white actors due to source material, creating an ever-expanding bubble of white actors at the very top of Hollywood and other international film traditions. Giving some white roles in medieval plays, like Shakespeare, to up and coming black actors can help alleviate that a bit. As for fantasy, this is even more possible at higher rungs of acting in my opinion, so long as there is some internal consistency. Just because "Kingdom X" is an England equivalent and "Kingdom Y" is a France equivalent in books doesn't mean a show or movie can't turn it into Kingdom Y with Middle Eastern looking people in it in order to diversify the cast a little.
You're going to have to expand on that last one because I did not notice. It is a fantasy set in europe and it can generally be assumed that the cast would be mostly white with some outliers from foreign lands. I believe that the best examples of diversiy are the ones which aren't noticed and aren't blatantly advocating for their particular faith/race/gender demographic. A character who is more fleshed out in other ways benefits from being cast with a particular type of diversity. But if that's their main character trait, that's just boring. In the Witcher there's a black witch; I'm sure black people can be witches, and her backstory before being selected isn't expanded upon, it doesn't matter that she's black, and that's fine. And there is a soldier somewhere important who is dark. Whatevs. Maybe he was an adventurer that got sworn into royal service. It doesn't mean anything.
@@KarstenOkk I see the point you´re coming from, but the problem is that you´re disregarding the cultural realities that you base something, say medieval fantasy, in order to satisfy a worldview you have in the contemporary. That might be a good idea in terms of broadening the visibility of given minorities in fiction, but its poison to cultural memory and especially historical consciousness. In extension to that, the logic that is envoked specifically to bar white people from getting roles that they somewhere down the line have an ethno-cultural relation to, agreeably however, VERY FAR down the line. The same standard should then be applied were someone to make a fantasy show based on a pre-colonial african culture, where there very likely no or barely any to speak off, white people around. You´re in essence turning a real-world consideration of racial inclusion in the industry into a marker of quality in creative fiction over a sense of authenticity. and im NOT saying that minorities don´t have a place in medieval of fantastic fiction. It just needs to be handled with care.
Martin has a great take on Star Trek here. It can be said that, like a lot of people, Roddenberry was inspired by Universalism or the idea that the Nation State is not the end product of human development. Star Trek also captures the old motif of exploring an unknown. Like Homer's stories, Odysseus sails through unknown islands in the Aegean and Mediterranean, discovering strange people, scary monsters, and sexy women. Similar with Jason and the Argonauts. Roddenberry has transplanted that into the sci-fi setting, so instead of Aegean islands teaming with who-knows-what, we have Captain Kirk and Star Trek.
Casual sexism is a long and noble tradition in our heroic fantasies. As it should be. People need to stop assuming that behaviors which appear in fiction are going to be emulated in reality. It only happens because we aren't teaching people how to use critical thinking when they imbibe these stories.
@@tallerwarrior1256 *The year is 2070, all humans are created artificially from goop into a homogenous beings devoid of race, sex, or any variation whatsoever* The Eternal SJW: It is clear that we discriminate more towards minorities now than ever in human history!
Sowel 44 did you just call the word “diversity” an “anti-western dog whistle”. Wow. Dumbest shit I’ve read in a while, and that’s saying something. Get a grip.
I think you have misrepresented that. She says that Star Trek specifically has more diversity than "some" contemporary television. Star Trek wasn't trying to fulfill a quota or appeal to "x" demographics by including characters of "x" background. It just had a relatively and comparatively diverse cast.
Dumb nerds are so sick of Cultural Marxism (even though they'd rather die than admit that's what it is) that whenever any halfway prominent figure makes any sort of comment that can semi-plausibly be construed as being even slightly less than fully on-board with the latest progressive cause they fall down and worship them like some heathen idol. It's utterly pathetic. Martin, like all his ilk, are rabid leftists, just slightly less open about their hatred of White people than their modern descendants.
We watched the video, George skirted the question like a pussy because he knew it was bait and a landmine he didn’t want to step on so instead of giving reasonable critique he just said something basic and trivial. People in the comments are now extrapolating further on the point because he didn’t. That’s it
@@Sercroc I've since learned that in canon Spock was the only Human-Vulcan half breed because he was genetically created, not born. In an interview between Gene Roddenberry and Sarek (played by Mark Lenard, of course) on the album Inside Star Trek, Sarek reveals the origins of Spock through casual conversation. He was a test-tube child, incubated outside of his mother because humans and Vulcans are naturally incompatible
@@alexiachimciuc3199 The canon explanation why most Star Trek aliens are humanoid and look like Earthlings with bad makeup is because many are from the same original race. Maybe that's no longer cannon but it was.
What about fantasy? The greatest Fantasy author currently is George or JK, but the original one was either Lord Dunsany or Lovecraft. I think a hybrid of fantasy with realism grounds the reader.
@@erikt3162 Ouch, Lovecraft, really bad example for diversity. But diversity just for diversity always is bad doesn't matter the setting. If you add in a black guy just because he's black your going to get a character that will have the personality of a black stereotype. The character need to be a character first. Other than that you can explain away most things with good writing. Look at the Last Samurai. You had a white guy in Japan and you get to see the hurdles he had to jump through to coexist in that culture.
@@dagonofthedepths true but I would also say, ‘fans’ need be equally thoughtful when initially reacting to certain casting moves or character appearances. While I agree 100% token diversity is good for no one, too many times ppl falsely assume tokenism the moment a character of color is even announced just look at what’s happening with Corlys Velaryon on the House of Dragons prequel. RUclips is littered with comments from ‘fans’ already claiming it’s a horrible tokenism casting that will destroy the story that was told in the source material when in fact there’s a very clear and obvious way casting a black Corlys could work just fine with very little changing from the source material plot wise. It’s easy to say, “The story is what matters most” but we only see that argument when someone is championing diversity. I never hear that same argument being made when a character of color is cast in a role some folks were expecting a white person in... Gotta acknowledge both sides for the point to truly get across. 🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️
@@LordCorlys Well honestly it should. Like there was this article that was running over some super hero movie ideas. Like should we have a black Magneto and Professor X. If someone asked me Professor X sure whatever, Magneto, hell no because that changes his whole origin story and his upbringing. One of the examples I can think of where they didn't need to explain it was in Ghost in the Shell where Scarlett Johansson was playing the Major who is suppose to be Japanese. But her body is like 90% synthetic so the shape doesn't matter. They could just imply that her body is a mass produced military model and leave it at that but they went into a long winded explanation on how a Japanese woman got into an American body. Hell in the manga she ended in a black drag queen body. The character never really cared so focusing on that really hurt the movie for me. To me I would rather they not change it because it leads to weirdness a lot of the times but if you can get away with it fine but I would rather you do that because the actor is better not because you wanted to check off a demographic box.
The problem is people demand diversity where it isn’t appropriate. Westeros and the story of GoT is based on the British isles and the war of the roses. Big news flash, hundreds of years ago Britton was about 99.8% white. It’s strange how diversity is only demanded when we’re talking about the history, heritage and culture of historically white nations in this case ethnically English, Scottish and Welsh (all white). Maybe don’t disrespect somebody else’s heritage and history by demanding you be represented despite the fact it makes no historical sense and attempting to suggest there is no such thing as English identity, only “England is multicultural” No, the English are a distinct group with our own heritage, history and culture.
it's subconscious. it's called mirroring and we exhibit it all through our life from the time we are babies. we frequently do this to people we respect or like. if you watch two friends/acquaintances having a conversation you can see a small example of this. very often one will fidget or change posture simultaneously or shortly after the other one does. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirroring
BSG did "diversity" best. Race wasn't what made people "diverse", but rather the culture they came from depending on their colony of origin. Capricans were as culturally different from natives of Arelon, as people from Scorpia were from Geminese, Sagitarians, etc, etc. What united them was the threat of extermination by the Cylons.
I figured that George was based on this, I just felt it in my spirit. He's clearly a very empathetic person who sees human being as complicated people and doesn't focus on arbitrary skin deep aspects like race or gender when he crafts his characters.
Actually he writes plenty of ethnically and racially diverse characters. For the times in which he was a young creator barely getting published as science fiction and fantasy writer, there was definitely a lot of LGBTQIA representation in his book as well. His most recent work, Elden Ring, on which he collaborated with Hidataka Miyazaki, is actually what I'd define as rather progressive even by *today's* standards. He has a non binary character written as "the central figure" from his perspective when he wrote the lore (As a historian essentially, it's written kind of like Fire and Blood). And while you don't get to play as that character, and they remain very much shrouded in mystery, that character is so f_$king memorable that everyone is still talking about them to this very day. There's also a trans princess in that game and she seems exceptionally beautiful although we are waiting on the DLC to meet her. The man makes you sympathize with a prostitute who is in love with a zombie and is an advocate for Zombie equal rights. I wish I was kidding. 😂😂😂😂 He's very much in touch with the times, George is still as spry and creative as he was when he was younger. I'd argue, even more so right now at this age. The troll spirit with TWoW is also very reminiscent of Millennials/GenZ.
What a very professional, considerate and interesting question "What do you wish you were asked about in interviews and what do you hate being asked about?" That's a question that really invite to a wide open possibilities of interesting answers and the one asked can get to talk about something they wanted to talk about for a long time.
I feel like people underestimate how diverse the world is. Go to any capital city of any country in the world and you will find people of every nation and race. Cities are diverse. Almost all cities are diverse. It's ridiculous to think a race of people are all going to look like one another. Of course we're all going to look different. It's not that much of a stretch.
Am I the only one kinda weirded out at 35 seconds in when she finishes the first question, she takes a sip in sync with him while also unmovingly looking directly at him? I think she's a synth
You should not be freaked out. She is using psychological tricks to make George feel at ease to get a better interview for us. The table being arrayed that they are side by side is also a trick; you want your friends at your sides and back, and your opponents facing you inside of your elbows. The unison drink shows she is following his lead and that they are, again, on the same side and in lock and step. The looking at him underscores the he is leading because she is watching him for the appropriate action to follow. She is sending we are friends and you are in control of the discussion aka a good interviewer. People open up when they don't feel threatened.
If you mix cultures in medieval times that would be boring and off.
4 года назад+3
The problem of crossbreeding between Vulcans and Humans was fixed in TNG when they explain the origin of every "human-like" species in the ST Universe.
Uhura was more than the comm officer; back in two separate episodes of season 1, she was actually at the helm flying the ship! Back in 1960s!! Check it out!!! Those scenes might only be on the dvd/blu ray edits, though . . . .
@Radiyas 13 Yet in TOS women were not allowed to be captains. Also I’m sure Uhura getting special treatment for certain things on the show was due in part to Roddenberry and Nichols having a decades long affair that began on TOS.
What irks me is this tendency to hold people accountable who actually make the effort to write their own stories. It's easy to comment on those who try something. GOT is as diverse as one could get ito of its genre and timing in its fictional history. Let's respect differences but not enforce it onto everything that is or was relevant. Let's inspire new stories and authors to do what they see fit - instead of making it what we want it to be. Creative freedom should not be dictated by current political relevance, but only by what the creator intended. Respect the work in its form - there are way too many couch political commentators that don't inspire any change of what could become the next relevant book series or show. Appreciate great work and create your own if you disagree. And even if you do create something else with all the correct political decisions of this age, there'll be people who dislike it. There are too many tough crowds out there who don't inspire the change they want to see, but instead would rather piss on those who do. Getting so tired of it.
Indeed; Star Trek is really just the “ideal” USA in space - a utopian, post-apocalyptic Earth should be an inherently diverse place with all the best of each culture....Not merely just one “idealized” monoculture
When it comes to diversity in Sci-Fi compared to diversity in Fantasy, there’s one thing that needs to be taken into account: historical precedence. Sci-Fi can get away with being as diverse as it wants due to the fact that it’s futuristic and can make up it’s own history. Fantasies like ASOIAF or Lord of the Rings or even simple Disney stories are all tied to history, and the periods in which people really lived. It wouldn’t make sense to see a white guy in Moana, or an African in Mulan, or a Persian in Snow White. Just as accuracy to the technology and values of the historical period are important, the people we see to reflect those beliefs are just as important.
I guess perhaps if we want to talk about diversity in Fantasy, it might be better to focus on more diversity in settings. And I mean it more than just for better representation. I always get excited when I see a fantasy world set somewhere that isn't just based on medieval Western Europe (I've been especially dying for one inspired by the Swahili coast or other parts of Southern Africa, for instance. I feel that those kinds of settings are criminally under-utilised, and could add a lot to the genre as a whole, if explored properly).
Just because one takes direct inspiration from a time period (medieval in this case) doesnt mean you cant adjust what you want, its fantasy. If I want more realism I'll read historical, fiction or, fantasy. Now I'm not saying everything thing has to be diverse, but using the "it's based on real history" argument is kind of dumb.
Mmmmm kinda. ASOIAF and LOTR are not tied to any historic period, they're are made up worlds. The only thing that really matters there is internal consistency. If Martin says that 75% of people of Winterfell were black, that's how it is. Middle-Earth is not the Shire, or Gondor, is an entire world with different cultures an backgrounds, same with Westeros. Not every place is inspired by european folklore. I mean, why invent a world if you're gonna limit yourself to this one? Gondor, for example, is regarded as the typical european society, but it takes a lot of inspiration from Egypt. Disney is a different story, because it is rooted in this world.
@Admire Kashiri Yes, as well as LOTR. But inspiration is very different to "being tied to history". Westeros is not Europe, even though a great part of it (mainly everywhere but Dorne) is heavily inspired by medieval Europe. What I'm saying is that the original comparison between Disney and fantsy worlds like ASOIAF or LOTR is inaccurate, because one is rooted in our world and the others are not.
@@nik700 You can't see LotR as separate from the mythology and culture it is based on. It's what gives fantasy life. Elves and dwarves are not created by Tolkien, they were inspired by thousands of years old European mythology and thus have cultural significance tied to Europe. If you change the elves you're not only messing with LotR lore, you're messing with our culture as such. That is not to say everything has to be perfectly homogenous or whatever, but I'm just saying that this "it's just fantasy you can do whatever you want" idea is too much. There is a historic and cultural background to these stories that make them authentic and messing with this can take that authenticity away. A diverse LotR would be.... different. Less enjoyable for me, less authentic. And I don't think Disney is any different. If we take Beauty and the Beast, for instance, we're talking about an approx. 4000 year old European fairy tale, told from generation to generation by mouth until it was finally written down in the 1800's... That has some serious cultural significance. I don't think such stories can be seen as separate from their cultural background and should be handled with care. This is the case for all such mythology, folklore and fairy tales. They're ancient parts of our culture and there's an incredibly long tradition of telling those stories in various ways. This is the same for other cultures and their folklore. This is different for fantasy that is not directly based on anything. Or fantasy that butchers the folklore anyway. For example I don't care about a black Heimdall in Marvel's Thor because it's in no way meant to be serious about folklore. It just takes elements of it in a very lighthearted way and does with it what it wishes. I don't mind. But if we're talking about more serious fantasy like LotR... I just can't take that seriously if it changes things like this and this hurts how I experience the story.
Having all sorts of characters from different backgrounds is a good thing, but it also has to make sense. If you're writing a story about the Vietnam War, and there's a Jamaican guy in the Vietcong...Well, that would just be stupid, wouldn't it? Unless of course there's some fascinating backstory about how a Jamaican guy becomes part of the Vietcong.
There's also a cool series that goes into alternate history, Long series that spans centuries : what if all of Europe had died from the black plague. And just, continue history from that point in time with that particular idea. We'd have such a different world.
This is the most nerdy answer to this question/topic I've ever heard. Idk why I haven't picked up any AOIAF books. GoT and that universe reminds me of Morrowind a little bit, but slightly in the future.
The problem with trying to make casts and characters ethnically and gender diverse is evolution doesn't work that way, nor does culture. Physical characteristics were developed over thousands of years of exposure to conditions and the natural selection process. This detracts from the audience's ability to immerse themselves in the story. So when you show a "tribe" of orcs or elves with a mix of black, Asian, white, it disrupts that immersion, because anyone with an educated mind is thinking, "How the heck did that happen?". There are now TV shows depicting 1800's English society with black lords and ladies; rewriting history to suit political correctness? It makes the attempts at diversity the main point of the story, not the actual plot. I cannot suspend belief and watch a fantasy show about King Arthur, when the actor is a black man in Britain, supposedly around 600 AD. It seems that being politically correct has become more important that telling the story.
Your references to Rings of Power and Bridgerton were the first examples that came to mind as well. Also, as another commentator mentioned, diversity should reflect culture not skin color. You first need established and rich cultures to which you can attach racially/ethnically diverse characters - which I believe George's ASOIAF universe accomplishes while the aforementioned examples don't
The thing is if story is based of off European folk lore and myths then why would there be Africans in it for example. If we tried to cast white peoples in literature made from African mythology we would be called out on it.
@@wserthmar8908 I’m happy for the correction. To be honest it’s the argument I use for when they try and do this with Tolkien’s work which is more about mythology than history.
Some metrics actually put them in the top 15 most powerful countries, and they are unquestionably a rising power. Eclipsing the US, well I don't see it for at least a hundred years, but 2300 is, well, more than 100 years away. Imagine if somebody told 1920s Europe that in a hundred years China would be nearly universally held to be the third most powerful country in the world, and that it would not be behind Germany, or the UK, or France, but the US and Russia.
So imagine that clean water becomes the more expansive resource on earth and the countries start to fight wars for water. Brasil has almost 15% of clean water of the planet. I doesn't seem so distopic to mee
No. There is no importance on diversity in stories and certainly shouldn’t be an expected/forced standard in literature and film. Is Parasite a bad film because it’s vast majority Koreans Koreans in a majority Korean country? No. What about any Bollywood film? Is that some anti European anti African institution filled with indo-supremacy? No.
Its only important if has a purpose in the story however some people just like to forced for no reason,context or meaning. Like changing the Race of an already established character or know historical figure just because "We NeEd mOrE DIVerSiTy" its dumb. Like it feels more racist that things seeam to be this way now lol, im Hispanic and apparently i need to be represented in media for validation and to feel good about myself. like its wrong for me to like good characters that arent of my ethnicity because im so much of a racist that i cant possible identify with characters on a personal level unless they are from the race as i am therefore i need to push for diversity to validate my existence. Im sure plenty of kids that grew up in the 90s like me had no problem with characters like Spiderman,Batman or The X-men and couldnt give a ratsass about representation.
he said "when I can say: October, it will be a happier time" also, how old is this interview? he's been giving less and less interviews these 5 past years.
My current favorite example of a fictional world that handles this quite well is Dragon Prince. They had the freedom to imagine a magical world of their choosing and chose to imagine one where people aren't continuously shitty to each other on the basis of skin colour, or gender or sexual orientation. Instead, they find more interesting reasons to be shitty to one another, like cycles of war and revenge, conflicting duties and desires, etc.
People will always make new criteria to separate themselves , it gives them a sense of belonging in a general sense I think a lot of racism stems from trying to give your self an identity and feeling good about it. As a result you put down other groups to make your self feel better about yourself, creating a them and us mentally . Usually If they get to know people of other races they realize how similar they are but only If they're willing to interact with that group and depending on how badly they want to belong to a group
@Oxtocoatl How disingenuous. There is no better reason for hatred. Hatred is hatred and the desire to project hatred has the same density. There is no "more interesting reasons".
@@OneManCast I didn't mean more interesting to imply that one form of hate is more acceptable than another, just that the ones the show runners chose to focus on make for a better story
There is no hunger for diversity in sci-fi and fantasy. There is a push for it but every franchise that panders to it dies. There is a hunger for solid story telling and likable characters.
Man, can't believe people get trigger when someone talk about diversity. By the way, franchises usually "fail" because the studios micromanage the movie to death. It not the diversity boogeyman. I looking at the box office and it clearly show you are wrong and trying to push your agenda. If you was corrected Black Panther and Spider-Verse would have fail because they pushing diversity or those god awful live action Disney remakes would had bomb too (but they didn't, wish they had). The only reason Hollywood is doing more diversity in movies because they want a bigger returned. It silly to think otherwise
usually ppl write things based on what they r familiar with. so yeah, white writers will have mostly whites in their story. like where r all the whites or blacks or hispanics in crazy rich asians? those who grow up around a bunch of ppl from different races is more likely to write a story with more diversity involved. like i aint gon bitch about a black writer who writes a story involving blacks only. but since we r going there, id really like to see more half white, half asian ppl in (science) fiction cuz u know, i feel super under represented and all that
Iltffny a good writer thinks beyond their narrow existence. If you don’t have surface level diversity, like skin color, height, hair, etc. you probably won’t have a diverse cast of characters when it comes to personality, motives, or morality. Of course crazy rich Asians isn’t racially diverse cause the story is specifically about Asians, but I see no reason that when your story has aliens and space colonies, that you can’t throw a non white person in there.
@@mfpope7431 obviously the writers think beyond their own existence cuz they, for the most part, dont live the stories they write about. im not saying u cant have diversity or that its a bad thing, im simply saying its dumb to bitch about the lack of it in any given story. i used crazy rich asian specifically cuz when its a story about whites, there r still ppl whining about diversity. the movie "tag" from last year (or the year before?) was based a true story. in real life it was like 15ish guys, give or take and in the movie its 4. ok i understand u cant have that many main characters in a film. now in the film its three white dudes and one black guy. when u see the footage and pics from the real life ppl, its all white middle age guys. like its beyond dumb to put a black guy in the film just for diversitys sake when in reality it was a bunch of white guys. the story of ASOIAF draws a lot of inspiration from british history so u know, not a lot of non whites back then. im half white and half asian. for example i loved black panther, thought it was a cool and fun movie. but do i want a wakandan character to be white or asian? hell no and it wouldve turned me off cuz its stupid and pandering. same logic applies in other scenarios
@@Iltffny asoiaf has a diverse cast though. There's bravos (very mixed place), dorne, summer islands, naath, dothraki, etc. Also, most of media is full of white people. There's no reason nearly every generic movie set in the US needs a white male protagonist. White men are like 30% of the US population, so you would think around 30% of actors would be white males but that just doesnt end up being the case. That is the issue many people have. When roles that could easily be filled by anyone, they tend to be filled by white men. I dont think anyone is complaining that midsommar's cult was full of white people, or that they picked the aryan girl to be their new member, because yes, in that context, it does make sense, it doesnt seem out of place. Midsommar also managed to include a nonwhite couple, because that didnt not make sense for the story. Its very rare that someone writes a story that has 0 place for minorities, but we see it happen quite often.
It's interesting to think about, cause im South Asian, but I've been exposed more to western cinema/literature/history, even the curriculum i studied was British. I have little interest in my own cultures, mythologies and histories compared to European history/Medieval English history as well as Mediterranean history like the Roman Empire, ancient Greece, Achaemenid empire etc (in fact im a student of classics and Roman history). So I guess it doesn't really matter where ur from, or what ur skin color/ethnic background is, just what you've been exposed to.
So if a guy who wrote Witcher in Poland which is over 95%(and thats me lowering the numbers) at times when you couldnt travel as easily shouldnt be hounded for lack of diversity since he didnt experience it. Got it. Seriously thou the problem isnt if there are multiple races or anything AS LONG AS IT WORKS. If a characters most exhibited or rather ONLY trait is its race then someone didnt do their job. If a character is interesting race will not be important unless a situation happens that is directly connected to it. Also changing well established facts of a world just to add in some diversity is what annoys ppl. ASOIAF Missandei and the immortal dude i am looking at you. Also someone said that if you dont have a surface level diversity in terms of looks then you wont have diverse characters in terms of personality, morals and motives. No offense but that makes no sense. It would assume that you cant make a certain type of character in a world created by a writer(and lore of said world is up to the writer. Bear that in mind) without resorting to difference in looks of some kind. That makes exactly 0 sense. It would assume that looks define personality. Which is not a claim i am willing to follow.
If I could ask GRRM any question, I'd ask how the experience differed between adapting his work for a big fantasy show like Game Of Thrones compared to his sci-fi horror Nightflyers.
4:30 "The Next Generation" solved that problem in-universe by having the episode "The Chase" explain that all humanoid life forms in the universe had the same ancestors that roamed the galaxy millions of years ago and left their DNA on various planets. So they share most of the same DNA which enables them to couple.
@@peterfryer4613 I think Starship Troopers was Argentina if i'm not wrong, but yeah only in fiction will you see Brazil in such a position haha, they are a super dysfunctional and corrupt country.
You can't compare shows like Star Trek and Game of Thrones in terms of "Diversity" one is set hundreds of years in the future where the other is set in a "Medieval" era. In a future setting, of course there is going to be more mixed and diverse arrange of characters because you have advanced technology, more intermingled society's, space travel etc.. Whereas in a Medieval setting the populations are typically going to be homogenous, owing to the lack of widespread travel options (the only way to get across vast oceans is by ship and most people wouldn't be able to afford it) So they would typically stay where they are born. Yes, there will be some characters here and there that would have travelled to other places (Like Jalabhar Xho, Chataya and her daughter Alayaya to give some examples from Game of Thrones) But by and large most people will tend to stay where they are born. I'm honestly so sick of this modern day view of "Diversity". Yes you should have a vast amount of cultures and peoples of different skin type, hair color, eye color etc. not because you NEED to have them for diversity's sake, but because it adds to the world building. A vast world with multiple continents and different biomes on those continents are going to breed different people just like in the real world. But modern day writers are so idiotic and lazy that they will just randomly throw in diversity with absolutely no world building and no explanation simply to check off diversity quotas, you need look no further than The Witcher Netflix show...
These people don't want diversity, they're far weirder than that. They want different-looking people to be culturally homogenous, as seen a lot of the time in the modern day (i.e., people from lots of different backgrounds living in western countries and adopting the native culture). Look at the wheel of time show, or the rings of power, or anything else. It's filled with groups of people consisting of lots of ethnicities that all share the same culture. These people are not particularly interested in diversity in the way that we are (because different cultures / species are just plain cool), they're interested in lots of different ethnicities living together and displaying no behavioural differences. I have absolutely no idea why they think this is cooler than exploring multiple cultures through foreign / exotic characters
That's actually an interesting point, I believe it has some non negligible truth to it. I must confess though, that even as an immigrant who fully integrated into "western" culture, I still find racism and xenophobia to be unbelievably common. I've faced it before and continue to do so. I will take that "less than ideal" version of diversity as long as it's a stepping stone to "real" diversity. The fact of the matter is, we are unfortunately still very much "behind" on this topic as a species. Edit: And regarding your final paragraph, I can argue that they feel as though the "fear" of "different folk" can be tempered by easing this introduction to those "alien" people. Legal aliens are still just that. But looking white and sounding British will definitely not be the same as looking white and having a middle eastern name. I can attest to that from a personal experience. I was once asked why I am white, yes it was funny. 😅
Diversity is great but does not show the quality of the book/show. If diversity is used in order to create good plots or good characters, that's awesome. If there's asian to put asian, that's very arrogant and racist : I mean it's like helping someone just because he belongs to a community. This is insulting inclusive pity and inclusive pity is actually very exclusive : "you are black so you have to be represented otherwise you'll be sad. We rich men and rich women of TV know what's the best for your poor ethnicity" they don't say that loud but actually that's the situation today... As a "member of a minority" lol, I simply ask for good asian, black, polynesian, indian, gays characters, not just fillers.
@@goncalobaia1574 I recently read a nice commentary on that in the context of ST Picard. There is a certain lack of substance in current media. It's more about taking a stand than actually reflecting it and thinking it through (and by doing that validating it).
Well racial diversity in sci-fi is almost baked in the cake, problems arise with racial diversity in fantasy where there is evidently a right and a wrong way to do it. An ethnically diverse imperial army or big city is totally ok, an ethnically diverse small village or tribe is cringy as hell. Dark skinned folks in tundra landscapes look dumb as fuck, as do ginger Celts at the equator. Full plate armor in the desert is just silly, open torso leather biker gear in icy tundra is sillier still. Oh, and race-switching in mythology is just plain insulting to all parties involved.
4 года назад+1
That last part is very interesting because we're so use to the white-washing of early Hollywood that now it's kinda tricky to depick the race of Mythological characters from diferent cultures. For example, we have Aquiles, a character who has been portrayed by white actor Brad Pitt and by black actor David Gyasi, neither of whom looks like a greek man from the 1000 b.C.
@ Well if it were Rome I could understand, but Achilles is a bad example: 1000 bc Greeks were provincial and ethnically homogeneous, most likely whiter than Hellenistic or contemporary Greeks, in line with classical dipictions and ethnological proximity to Celtic people and subsequent Dorian migration. Besides, the casting of an actor of Ghanaian descent, aside from being a marketing ploy, to me is implicitly and rather insultingly saying that for the sake of fairness of representation it's in fact pointless to research and depict, say, Ashanti history and mythology, but instead Africans should be ignorant and despoiled of their heritage and anachronistically hamfisted into European mythos. Incidentally the same issue never arises with East Asians, because they are implicitly recognized as "worthy and ancient enough:" the epitome of racism. But hey, at least I won't have to suffer through a Vietnamese Aeneas any time soon... A more glaring case of whitewashing would be a Jim Caviezel or pretty much any dipiction of Biblical mythology with pasty white people. At least when they portrayed the Mummy with a white guy they had the decency to have him tan a bit, but for some inexplicable reason Jesus and Moses just gotta have blue eyes. And I may point out that there is a general issue with Hollywood and the Middle East: basically any tan white guy with a fake beard or cappuccino colored person of any latitude and ethnicity from Samoa to Colombia is good to play a Mesopotamian or Persian, apparently...
@T C T C Mind you I'm not at all saying that Asians don't suffer racism on Western media - my discussion was more focused on the fantasy/mythology issue, noting simply that we don't seem to feel compelled to have Cantonese Lancelot or Burmese Odysseus like we do for Ethiopian Aeneas and Nigerian Zeus. My theory is that this rather obvious double standard betrays the underlying assumption that while Asians have their strong cultural roots, Africans don't and therefore the poor souls need us to "include" them and "represent them" in our own - which I find paternalistic and wrong headed. On the other hand Asian culture is perceived as utterly other and mystically counterpoised to Western culture, which itself is hilariously provincial but belies a much deeper respect than what is granted poor mother Africa. About the Middle East I can certainly agree with your point, I'm just a nerd that would like to see more historically authentic depictions of it, just as I would like to see more shows set in period Africa instead of the 400th shitty reboot of King fucking Arthur - now with token black guys, ain't we fresh and progressive?
@Admire Kashiri Thanks for the links, much appreciated. I totally ignored this and look forward to seeing what comes of it! Tbh I was not a fan of the exaggerated fanfare around Black Panther but if it serves to finally have some original fantasy/historical content set in Africa I take it all back.
@ Greeks from 1000 BC should have looked similar to today's, BUT they suffered immigration from Doric people, basically a Germanic tribe, hence SOME BLOND PEOPLE EXISTED FOR SURE. In the poem, Achilles IS sometimes described as blond, even if that's interpreted as Homer's describing heroes of his (Doric) age, rather than the previous age in wich the story was actually set
Also, George can't just up and start writing about the Axumite empire in ancient Ethiopia. People write what they know. It is a very hard thing to be completely external to something yet know it inside and out to build a world around it. I would much rather someone with the appropriate background knowledge and experience be given a platform to do the work justice
Allow me to enlighten you: Octavia Butler books: Kindred Fledgling Toni Morrison books: Beloved Song of Solomon Nnedi Okorafor books: Who fears death Akata Witch Binti Lagoon N.K. Jemisin books: The Fifth Season, The Obelisk Gate The Stone Sky Nalo Hopkinson books: The Salt Roads Midnight Robber Tochi Onyebuchi books: War girls Beasts Made of Night Crown of Thunder Rebel Sisters Tomi Adeyemi books: Children of Blood and Bone Children of Virtue and Vengeance Reni K. Amayo books: Daughters of Nri Rena Barron books: Kingdom of Souls Maya and the Rising Dark Marlon James books: Black Leopard, Red Wolf A Brief History of Seven Killings The book of Night Women Colson Whitehead books: The Underground Railroad Antoine Bandele books: Tales of Esowon: The Kishi Black Sands The Seven Kingdoms (Manuel Godoy) Malika: Warrior Queen (Roye Okupe)
_Starship Troopers_ was very racially diverse. Rico himself was Filipino, and was in a class that included (presumably, it's generally not mentioned) African-Americans (Breckinridge), Heinrich and Meyer Bitte (German, mentioned) and Shujumi (Japanese).
@@MRJTD99 I assume he is more referring to the idea that if we have the ability to live on multiple planets, if one of those planets completely belongs to America, China, Saudi Arabia, South Africa. Whatever. Furthermore, Europeans, Asians, Africans, Polynesians. Whatever. Is a very sad thought. Which surely you can agree is correct. I don't know how multi-planetary would work if it wasn't just.. Humans. Not sure how that would come to be either when someone would have trouble just seeing their likeness in a silly movie. But yes, if the gesture is open ended with current Earth systems. I see it causing more hate than not. But that is just on the internet anyway...
True. Dwarfs are Diverses to Elves, Human, Orcs. However, Blacks dwarfs, doesnt bring anything to Dwarf race. Except if the ideas is to create some Black Elves lore, which is not about racial diversity. I dont think racial diversity is a thing in fantasy, cause racial problem are IRL based, and cannot really be transcripted into a story.
A great example is the Lightbringer series. There is a strong and well thought out history/development of different races and in current times, in the book, there are places that require people from around the world to be located together. They may act to control everyone else in the world, whether they want it or not, but that is besides the point :D.
@@TheFiresloth no Dude. It's not. There is PLENTY of data on what type of person is in the Star Wars fandom. And its literally 80% White and the Rest is Chinese. Seriously, look up the data. It's true.
@@s.m.g.2166 You don't know what ASOIAF means, right ? Also I'm pretty sure those are bullshit numbers, because why would a nonbiased source even ask that question ?
@@TheFiresloth demographic data is collected about anything being sold to the masses, you potato. Not everything that makes your feelings flair up is biased.
On a "World" scale then no Star Trek was not diverse at all. Diversity is just another way to short people on what is rightfully theirs. If there was no profit to be made then we would not be talking about it right now.
@@Saoirse_don_Phalaistín lol your a bit tepid aint you. Undoubted that a contemporary fictional writers opinion is somehow presiding over a current world situation. Dipshit.
Josh Kier imagine actually unironically believing in the “current world situation” you claim to be true. You talk about this “great replacement theory”, don’t be surprised if people see you and refer to you as a Nazi and stop taking you seriously. You know, there is a genuine discussion to be had about diversity in fiction, artistic integrity and a certain section of fiction writers perhaps compromising their work. That is something worth talking about. Why the need to bring unfounded fear mongering great replacement theories? And yes, I would trust someone as well versed in history and culture as GRRM over an unhinged retard like you talking about stopping “native populations” from growing (whatever the fuck that means) and who posses grammar below that of an elementary level child.
@@Saoirse_don_Phalaistín You really are a spastic, sorry I wasn't performing to the prolapsing specificities of your inverted mind. Seems like I'm saving that for my law degree. I mean despite your clear and complete intellectual ineptness to grasp a reality and carrying on running around in a fantasy world like a child, despite your total incapacity to handle a subject of seriousness without falling back upon Godwins Law and perpetuating accusatory attitudes in order to attempt to sustain some sense of self fortitude in your pitifully small and lowly regarded response, I'll give you a piece of my time. Nazi? Wrong Great replacement theory? Wrong. Unhinged? Unfortunately wrong again bc I'd rather be off my rocker where I'd be more occupied with pretty colors and fanciful imaginations (something you undoubtedly empathise with) rather than be lumbered with having to deal with the failing idiocies of the likes of you. 20 percent production rate decline in UK Native population reproduction rate in the west, declining too. Influx of immigration to keep up economies? Fact. Numbers are there, you're an idiot with a big mouth now go find your mummy.
Epic Gamer it means you’re being very demeaning and racist. Therefore you describing white people like that must mean you’re projecting your own insecurities
Epic Gamer you’re saying white people are pathetic just like George because he’s being humble? You’re not as clever as you think you are. I can tell by your stupid childish profile picture. Probably an edgy 17 year old who watched Richard Dawkin vids and plays Fortnite
Rivia Wolf Edits why is it humble to say "there is still room for white old men like me“? Why shouldn’t be room for him? Why should his skin color and age imply whether there should be room for him or not? This assertion itself is by definition racist because not his character or behavior decide if there should be room for but being a "white old man". What Epic Gamer was referring to, was the self-hatred and race guilt prevalent among a certain amount of white people in Western countries today.
LegionPlay you completely missed the point. He’s not actually hating himself or his race, he’s implying he’s no longer in his prime to actively write books as he did. Not only that but years, years ago there was only a handful of different races that wrote books in Western countries. He’s simply stating he’s honoured that he can still write books and compete with much different people from different ages, religious backgrounds and races? What is wrong with that? and I’m pretty sure it was satire and not supposed to be taken literally like you two did. And FYI you completely bullshitted Epic Gamers statement. He called George a pathetic cuck because of a joke/humble statement that wasn’t supposed to be taken literally and compared him to White people that hate their race because of the masses starting to be racist towards them for countless shit other the years.
"You cannot interbreed with the octopus people"
Thats not what the hentai showed me.
Or Slimes. Or Apes. Or Horses. Or Cats. Or Dogs.
I've been there too many times.
Doesn't mean someone isn't gonna try...
Weebs... literally most "fucking diverse" group in existence.
Emphasis on the fucking.
@@ScipioMexicanus That's how over half of the STD's started. Some idiot thought: "Hey, I know feces comes out of that hole, but I wonder what it'd feel like if I put my wang in it." or "I know that's a horse and all, but..."
な6IXLXRD
Rule 1 of dealing with humans, people are dumb
Parasite (the oscar winning Korean movie) was described as diverse despite the fact every cast member is Korean. Maybe what people want is quality entertainment from a variety of backgrounds instead of each story having to meet an arbitrary and phoney diversity quota.
Exactly, diversity is more than just something superficial skin deep
Tell that to many Americans and they'll call you racist and a bigot... I mean pretension and superficial "representation" is unfortunately becoming part of the culture.
yessir
The Diversity in that refers to the fact that you don’t really see a whole lot of other movies with an only korean cast.
@@TheShanicpower If you watch Korean movies almost every one of them has a Korean only cast. x)
There were good Korean movies before Parasite.
The problem with "diversity" in movies is that it's only skin deep. People will toss in one black guy, maybe sprinkle a Mexican or an Asian here, then call it diverse. Skin color isn't what makes us diverse; cultures are. I would LOVE to see a movie tackle and genuinely show an affection towards multiple cultures, as I'm always interested in learning more about the world. But Hollywood doesn't care about that.
The only thing that matters to them is: "Okay, so we have a black guy, a jew, a Russian, a Korean. Anything else?"
"How about a Mexican?"
"Brilliant idea, Bob!"
The issue with that is that some cultures have affectations that wouldn't work well if portrayed accurately and when you ask some Jewish kid from a wealthy part of New York to write about black people you're going to end up with a stereotype. As a result films tend to go with skin deep diversity (i.e. a black guy who is written as being a white guy) or a stereotype who gets killed off by a writer that doesn't know what to do with him.
That's because they only care about diversity of colour. In their minds non white = diverse. They don't understand what actually makes people different, infact they actively shut down anyone who says people are not all the same. In their desperation to fight racism they became racist.
Well said. Diversity isn’t something that ends at surface levels. Its a shame most of the stuff that is on TV right now isnt interested in delving deeper.
Thank you
People are so stupid that they think they're open minded, when they're the most closed minded of us all, to eat everything they're fed
That used to be referred to as "demographics' in the 2000s. The idea that say if you cast Jackie Chan in your movie then it would attract a big Chinese audience. But that word seems to have disappeared and replaced with 'diversity' probably because Hollywood executives can sell the term with more positive connotations as it's more about being 'inclusive' than about profits.
Can we just take a moment to acknowledge that table set up
It looks cool
It's hideous
It's distracting
I thought it was a set from the Red Wedding
It looks like a grand medieval feast without the meat 🥩 🍖 😋😃
One of the best examples of diversity in my mind is Avatar the last Airbender series.
Not only is each nation unique in culture and identity, the people of the world don’t all fall under a set stereotype for their nation. In each character their national origin isn’t the end all be all of their characterization or personality.
Look at the Fire Nation.
Zuko
Zhao
Iroh
Azula
Ty Lee
Mai
Jong Jong
Piando.
Ozai
All of them fire nation, but all of them are distinct characters and personalities. They are not defined by their nation, but rather what their nation means to them, and what they feel is best for it.
I really loved how their bending reflected their culture
Also one of the main characters has a disability
Honestly that show was perfect in so many ways
I agree but they really messed up with Indians. They really stereotyped that guru who was teaching about the Avatar state to Aang
I love how George takes a few seconds to answer a question. Makes us eager to listen to what he has to say.
Truly.
just like he takes a few years to write a book. Makes us eager.
@@subinmdr dependant *
He’s a master of story telling. Suspense is key no matter the emotion.
Also why he takes a few decades to publish a book lol
Everytime I see the thumbnail of these videos I think its a Joe Rogan podcast lmao
WobetTV underrated comment lol
@@DOOMDRAGON yes indeed
You made me realize that is why I clicked on the video
Damn, you're right. Now I kind of want Joe to interview George, that'd be pretty cool.
LMAO I literally thought “wait George RR martin was on joe’s podcast?” When I saw the thumbnail.
Star Trek treated race fundamentally differently than most overtly and deliberately diverse science fiction today. In the world of Star Trek, differences between races among humans were about as interesting and meaningful as differences in eye color is for us. Race didn't really matter to them, as you might expect of a humanity that managed to traverse the stars.
Conversely, much science fiction that attempts to be diverse ends up looking silly when you have humans in the 26th century having the same racial hangups as we do in 2020. It's hamfisted and it makes a piece of work age poorly. It's like if Jules Verne made a whole series where the human race of the future was preoccupied with making hot air balloons bigger and faster because people really cared about balloon travel in his day.
I agree. I think that when there are literal aliens you dont care that much about skin color.
That is so legit. It seems crude to compare racial issues in our society with hotair baloon fascination but ffs thats a great analogy
@Wil Sain I'll assume you're writing in good faith and not trolling. I don't think you have any basis to say that the Federation treated everyone as white and European. Humanism was their guiding philosophy. Unless you think humanism is inherently white and European, in which case I shudder to think about what values you associate with other colors and cultures. Even calling it "gentrifying" the galaxy is putting a weird 2020 spin on the 23rd century. It would be like if an Inquisitor from the 15th century looked at our world and was still really concerned about who was a true Catholic and who was a heretic. It's a regressive way to look at the future.
The implicit point is that humanity never would have made it to the level of having an interstellar federation if they never got over a preoccupation with race (which has itself only existed for the last few hundred years). They would have destroyed themselves long before that. As a matter of fact, humanity nearly did destroy itself a few times in the Star Trek timeline. Star Trek doesn't really tell us much about how people eventually got over it, except that it took a few near-extinction level events as well as a almost perfect solution to scarcity. But we got over it.
very well said
@@christopher6547 Kind of tells us of the extreme events it'd take just for us to get over the topic of race.
"not any more than we can impregnate wombats here on Earth"
Challenge accepted
Good luck, brother. 😅
Please don't go around raping wombats, thanks.
@@hisholiness4537 a little too late for that man.
@@hisholiness4537 Thank you for protecting the wombats, Mr. Drax
Black Dragon Productions How’d it go then?
Honestly, I think a Fantasy series based on the world and mythology of medieval Africa or Asia would be really cool, unique and interesting to see and read about. More diversity in that regard is needed.
But there can’t be any white people in those stories, except as traders maybe, because it wouldn’t fit, just as random black people in Westeros would be completely out of place.
Or, you could try a whole mesh of cultures and peoples, just don’t expect it to be as coherent as one based on one or the other.
But if your idea is to have a world of European origins, you can’t throw racial minorities in just because. They need to have an actual thematic and lore based reason to be there beyond appealing to modern journalists so they’ll write articles about your book that no one in the general public will ever want to read.
That depends, for example the Roman Empire was a pretty diverse place, if there are large, multicontinental empires there can very well be such diversity
Yes, you can throw in minorities just because. It doesn't subtract from the story whatsoever.
@Longshanks I agree. This is actually the reason I couldn't enjoy the Witcher TV show. There were a lot of black people in it and this wasn't addressed at all, which seemed so unrealistic. I mean, in a world in which you get treated like shit for having superpowers and being a white person who looks slightly different (the witchers), non-whites (mostly blacks) with magic powers get treated like just another person.
It was so incoherent and it clearly was with the purpose of appeasing the Social Justice types, especially after they complained so much about that when The Witcher 3 came out. Fake or forced diversity as I call it, to appease the mob of brainless Social Justice people.
As a non-white, I'm concerned about the repercussion of these actions because I think this is alienating a lot of white people (at least those without white guilt, which is very popular these days) and many of them are going to rightfully get angry about being constantly attacked and wrongfully come after everyone who they perceive as their enemy.
@@jaojao1768 the Roman empire was diverse because Rome conquered nearly half the known world. Rome was still full of Romans, in fact, not everyone from the empire was allowed in Rome.
You can say this about literally any empire. I guess Britain was a very "diverse" place as well.
@@CatsClaws. the Roman Empire was very different from the empires of the 19th century in that they were willing to integrate local peoples and their traditions. People from all parts of the empire joined the army and could rise through the ranks, some even becoming emperors, and the city of Rome had notable communities of foreigners
There is alot of diversity. You can have similar skin color and tone and be vastly different ethnicity.
It's almost like there's a difference between Scandinavians and the Scottish, or the English and the French, or the Italians and the Germans, etc etc. Who woulda thought?!
@@BanditoBurrito well Italians and German are a lot different, Italians weren't considered white 😅 look at Simpson episode where they put Portugal playing soccer, they made portuguese people black, because they are latins 😂
@MarkThisWayAfter I hate those people, im Brown and they reduce all of us as non-white, we are all the same to them, they believe all of us are underprivileged uneducated and need to be offended and speak on our behalf. Fuck them.
Ignorance can lead to quite humorous results. Although one may find one self in trouble if You mistake an Ethiopian for an Italian.
Diversity is not normal or natural. Animals like being with their own kind.
Have you noticed that when he gets asked a deep question he first goes to the people he admires and who’s shoulders he stands on, instead of his own opinion, it shows he doesn’t think of himself as an all knowing guru just an old dude who can right kick ass fantasy novels
Things must always make sense within the context of the story. Diversity for diversity’s sake is just one dimensional and insulting to the audience’s intelligence.
You would think so until you realize how many people are going apeshit for an arbitrarily black little mermaid. Idc what color she is she's the same character staring in a movie I have no plan of watching because I'm a grown man but I guess its a big deal to allot of people
@@josephleece682 She was originally white and is based on European mythology. I think that's why people are so upset about it.
Kinda reminds me when some people complained about the Witcher(a Polish game based on Polish mythology)videogame on not having Africans/darker skinned people
@@Sorry_2026 I get it but pick your battles. And sorry I was saying apeshit in a positive context, I mean that's some kind of victory to the general public it seems and so when you talk about diversity for diversity sake insulting the audience intelligence i find it funny because it seems most people don't have the intelligence to realize it's the exact same story just with a new filter applied and they think it makes a real difference. It doesn't really. You can alter race in pretty much any meaningful story and the story stays the same. I see people crying about stuff like gods of Egypt being so white casting wise and I think that's equally dumb
@@josephleece682 Oh, I see. It's true that story doesn't change it's really for the sake of being true to the source material
@@Sorry_2026 i can respect that. I really can. It's just that it's a slippery shoe because then you're bordering the cultural appropriation argument. The only counter point that makes me question myself on this that I can think of is using propaganda to rewrite history
Diversity in nowadays movies is all about quotas of representation, when it should be about really going deep in diverse cultural contexts. That would be a 1000 times more interesting.
that's because they are written by white people who want to make money and don't care about the medium
Could you give an example of going deeper
I've been watchinga TON of GRRM interviews and this woman is the best interviewer I've seen so far. Plus that table is amazing
True, I think it does make a huge difference that she is a fantasy/SF fan and a writer herself
she didn't even know the name of his third book. definitely disagree.
@@TunezCottage Good interviewer
≠ fanboy
0:32 Synchronized Drinking.
Ahaha
Dude that shit makes me uncomfortable lmao
Everyone else: RACISM BAD, OR MAYBE GOOD????
Us Intellectuals: Haha they drink water together
I found that way funnier than I should have.
Diversity is great. It can make a story more complex, make certain characters stand out or give them different motivations, and it will appeal to a wider audience. However diversity for diversity's sake will have the opposite effect, it will downgrade stories by making people or places seem out of place. A story in a Medieval European setting, or Viking-age Scandinavia, will have primarily white characters who will not be openly gay or transgender, that's just not historically accurate to our world's versions of those times. But on the other hand, it remains Fantasy so the writer can do whatever the fuck he wants, as long as it's written fittingly into the story.
Yeah, medieval Europe was almost only white. However in places like the Caribbean were more diverse. Good point though.
@@claws811 No. If you want to be a "sucessful" modern writer, you MUST have asian and african vikings, for the sake of wokeness.
@@miguelmontenegro3520 African and Asian Vikings are just called Pirates. They don't get their own fancy name.
@@gabesd6697 Yes but Im talking about the asian danes and black celts you see in history shows.
Miguel Montenegro: What do you mean ‘No’? I just stated a fact. Europe is historically white, and most fantasy is based on European-medieval times. It’s not racist to be historically accurate, if that’s what you’re implying. But yeah: adding Asians into a movie, just so there are Asians in the movie, does make it more diverse, but people don’t fall for *forced diversity* BS anymore.
I am a Latin American female. When I was growing up, if I picked up say, an English book, I expected mostly English characters. When I picked up a South American novel, I expected South American characters. In a Swedish children's book there would be Swedish characters. In a Costa Rican one, Costa Rican characters. Same thing with movies and TV shows. This diversity stuff never entered the equation. Now there are black and Asian Norse gods. That may be politically correct, but it's untrue.
perfectly stated
Also if there is (just a example) a black guy in a norse village in a movie or whatever, I expect to learn more about him. If there is just a black guy in a norse village for diversity than it ruins the immersion. Same of there was a old african tribe and there what a white guy in it just for the diversity, that could ruin the whole experience.
I think there is some show where a Medieval English queen is black. What next, casting Mansa Musa as a pasty white ginger?
@@QualityPen Bridgerton has a black queen so that may be what you're thinking of, but it's an alternative history. plus the queen she's loosely based on may or may not have some black heritage, it's debated.
@@Markuden we're taking a very extreme example here. I’m not a history major so I don’t honestly know when the first black people started appearing in Scandinavia, it may have been Viking times for all I know, or later. I also do assume it is much later but I don’t honestly know enough about vikings to know that. I know that there are a lot of non-white communities in Russia that have been around for a very long time which do not get talked about a lot.
What I do know is that racial diversity in general is a lot older than we think it is, the narrative is that it is a recent event is false. I know for a fact that there were black nobles in Georgian times, and possibly even earlier.
We have a view of the past which is based on the films and shows of the early 20th century. Unfortunately this was a point in time where there was a lot of institutional racism so casts were completely white regardless of the setting. So it is an illusion that all these cultures were 100% white, when they may not have been. Modern shows are simply breaking away from the 20th century way of doing things.
At the end of the day, even if it is based on history, it’s still fiction so it doesn’t need to be completely accurate. Are we going to pretend Braveheart or Gladiator are historical documentaries too? I get it if it spoils your enjoyment when things seem inaccurate (I certainly find myself incapable of fully enjoying these two examples).
When i listen to him speak i feel like i should be taking notes
(4:18) Vulcans don't have two hearts, their hearts are one the right side, where a human's liver would be.
Time Lords are the ones with two hearts.
Klingons have two of every organ.
Nerd
@@Micheal93k Epic
And the Deathwok Clan are the ones with their heart in their left butt-cheek.
As a Black person, I hate diversity in anything when it's forced. When there was diversity in old mediums, it was just there, it wasn't force fed to you or put into the foreground. I respect his response because it comes from a creator that respects art over politics.
I think black people want to see great black characters that can be enjoyed by everybody. I mean, what's a better sign of success for black people than being admired or loved by different social groups? Take Michael Jordan for example, who is admired by millions and he is obviously a black man. His success has nothing to do with race, but rather he is a great athlete.
The problem isn’t trying to shove a character of color into a story, that always feels forced and devalued. The problem is that there aren’t enough writers, editors and producers of color, who want to tell great stories about characters of color. Producers who don’t know writers and directors of color wind up with networks devoid of color. Newspapers and magazines have the same problem.
@@JasonBoyce given more than 90% of the world and most countries are non-White, I'd say there's plenty of writers, editors and producers "of color". Most of them, in fact. And watching any Korean drama or a Nollywood film will show you they couldn't give less of a shity about "diversity". So I think you just have a problem with White people.
Bit of a tangent but for me Finn in the new star wars is such a terrible character and he had all the potential to be one of the greatest characters in the franchise. Finn is a child soldier trained at birth under Empire, had a change of heart amidst a battle and bravely escaped and went rogue. Just by that backdrop you could only expect a competent reserved trained soldier who lacks social skills and personal intimacy but would be experienced in general soldier activities. A character whose narrative arc shouldnt have been the little engine that could and more the stoic badass learning to open up and trusting others. Instead they made him the comic relief and incompetent to promote the hypercompetence of white woman Rey, when they could have equally pulled their own weight and admired and respected each others skills and discipline under pressure. The scene from the beginning where first order shows up should have been the only time you see Finn get nervous and break composure, it would set the tone for how dangerous first order is if this fucking chad is tripping. Instead he freaked out about everything even though his whole life up to that point was being conditioned as a soldier by extremist army. And people had the audacity to cheer on the blatant butchering of the characters potential.
All "diversity" that is forced is bad for the story, both for the story itself and for the writer. When i indulge in a story i want it to be engaging, i want it to be something where the universe it takes place in has you so immersed that you almost feel lost when it's over. One thing that breaks that immersion though, one thing that takes that story and just makes it a nightmare instead is when "diversity" is introduced either in new or existing works and creates a character that isn't so much a character as a template with only superficial attributes.
As an example we'll take Hyle, Hyle was born under the starry skies near a road leading home. Born might be the wrong word though, he was saved from the accident which killed both of his parents, his mother only barely managing to survive long enough to hear her son's first scream as he was removed from her broken body. Hyle didn't know much about how his parents died, he grew up on a farm and his new family loved him like their own, but he never quite felt like everything was right, something always nagged at him and as he grew up the feeling only got stronger. On a day like many before, after working since sunrise and gazing out across the yellow fields he'd so painstakingly tended to, he noticed a couple coming up to the farm and to his surprise they stopped often and looked around them, almost as if lost. Strangers don't come around often in those parts and even though he was still young and loved the occasional mischief it was only proper to greet these people and offer help, after all new friendships are easier won with kindness than a mean jape. The meeting he had that day would be the start of a new life for Hyle, and from that moment on he finally felt at home.
Nothing in this story describes Hyle's appearance, in fact nothing in the story shows that Hyle is even a human. You've built up an image in your head about what Hyle looks like, you've built up an image of some of his woes, and that's what he's like to you. Hyle wouldn't have benefited from being white, or black, or red, or green, or octarin, that's not important, what's important is what Hyle is like, what kind of character he is and how he can develop based on that.
And just from reading this you can't tell who i am, my skin colour, my nationality or ethnicity, even what languages i speak or what i think about anything else than this story, and who i am is inconsequential, what matters is the story that i write, i could be black and write about the struggles of the people under the Soviet Union and how a poor Jewish family fled there from Poland at the beginning of WWII and it wouldn't matter as long as i write the story right and i don't make it just about things that have no actual meaning.
"Brazil was the power of the 23rd century"
How to write a futuristic dystopia.
I'll read that
Yep I guess that this is accurate because right now Brazil has zero power to achieve anything near that.
@@peet3449 It's been like that at least since 1889.
@@cestalia yeah that would be really interesting
@@TheRealGigachad1848 It's been like that since the 1500s.
The og Predator had a diverse cast but they did spin around that they only created good characters and a good story
Fever Dream is brilliant. First of his books I read after asoiaf. It was actualy reading it that I first thought that maybe asoiaf is indeed a post apocalyptic series and not a purely fantasy one. Then of course I found that I was far from the first one to think so...
@Admire Kashiri It's not easy to fit in a genre or avoiding spoilers: It's a cross between Stoker's Dracula (but not boring) and Huckleberry Finn. Well worth a read. I hoped Martin would write a sequel, not that it needs one being a full story with start and satisfying end, but I doubt that he will find the time.
@Admire Kashiri I mispelled it: it's "Fevre Dream". The audible search function is a bit fussy.
I highly recomment "A song for Lya". His best work in my humble opinion.
@@tomost3891 I read it. I can see the great quality but I'm afraid that I can't quite 'get it'. I have the spirituality of a kettle, it's a limit of mine, the more profound meanings of the story just fly over my head. I kept thinking that the fella should have blown up the whole shebang before it was too late.
Tuf Voyaging is also extremely underrated. I still think about that last story a lot.
Racial Diversity in fiction is great when it makes sense. Done properly it can enrich a world and make it feel more loved in. When done improperly it can come off as jarring (Recent Dr. Who), Pandering (ST:D/Picard) or simply pointless (Netflix Witcher).
That is basically a fact
It's never really pointless. The current issue is that due to a lot of roles in books being exclusively white, this creates an influx of famous white actors. Subsequently, roles that don't have a racial prerequisite get filled more disproportionately with white actors, since there is this larger base line of famous white actors due to source material, creating an ever-expanding bubble of white actors at the very top of Hollywood and other international film traditions. Giving some white roles in medieval plays, like Shakespeare, to up and coming black actors can help alleviate that a bit. As for fantasy, this is even more possible at higher rungs of acting in my opinion, so long as there is some internal consistency. Just because "Kingdom X" is an England equivalent and "Kingdom Y" is a France equivalent in books doesn't mean a show or movie can't turn it into Kingdom Y with Middle Eastern looking people in it in order to diversify the cast a little.
Karsten what are you on
You're going to have to expand on that last one because I did not notice. It is a fantasy set in europe and it can generally be assumed that the cast would be mostly white with some outliers from foreign lands.
I believe that the best examples of diversiy are the ones which aren't noticed and aren't blatantly advocating for their particular faith/race/gender demographic. A character who is more fleshed out in other ways benefits from being cast with a particular type of diversity. But if that's their main character trait, that's just boring. In the Witcher there's a black witch; I'm sure black people can be witches, and her backstory before being selected isn't expanded upon, it doesn't matter that she's black, and that's fine. And there is a soldier somewhere important who is dark. Whatevs. Maybe he was an adventurer that got sworn into royal service. It doesn't mean anything.
@@KarstenOkk I see the point you´re coming from, but the problem is that you´re disregarding the cultural realities that you base something, say medieval fantasy, in order to satisfy a worldview you have in the contemporary. That might be a good idea in terms of broadening the visibility of given minorities in fiction, but its poison to cultural memory and especially historical consciousness. In extension to that, the logic that is envoked specifically to bar white people from getting roles that they somewhere down the line have an ethno-cultural relation to, agreeably however, VERY FAR down the line. The same standard should then be applied were someone to make a fantasy show based on a pre-colonial african culture, where there very likely no or barely any to speak off, white people around.
You´re in essence turning a real-world consideration of racial inclusion in the industry into a marker of quality in creative fiction over a sense of authenticity. and im NOT saying that minorities don´t have a place in medieval of fantastic fiction. It just needs to be handled with care.
Quality body language mirroring at the end of that first question. Did she even drink? lol all love though. Love the set and interview.
It was creepy
GRRM confirmed as the OG PUA
Martin has a great take on Star Trek here. It can be said that, like a lot of people, Roddenberry was inspired by Universalism or the idea that the Nation State is not the end product of human development. Star Trek also captures the old motif of exploring an unknown. Like Homer's stories, Odysseus sails through unknown islands in the Aegean and Mediterranean, discovering strange people, scary monsters, and sexy women. Similar with Jason and the Argonauts. Roddenberry has transplanted that into the sci-fi setting, so instead of Aegean islands teaming with who-knows-what, we have Captain Kirk and Star Trek.
Casual sexism is a long and noble tradition in our heroic fantasies. As it should be. People need to stop assuming that behaviors which appear in fiction are going to be emulated in reality. It only happens because we aren't teaching people how to use critical thinking when they imbibe these stories.
Her assertion that tv has grown less diverse than 1960s Trek is patently ridiculous.
@VogtTD
I knew her question was gonna be bull crap when I saw the color of her hair😉
@@tallerwarrior1256 *The year is 2070, all humans are created artificially from goop into a homogenous beings devoid of race, sex, or any variation whatsoever*
The Eternal SJW: It is clear that we discriminate more towards minorities now than ever in human history!
@@tallerwarrior1256 it was clear it was going to be crap when it had the anti western dog whistle "diversity" in it.
Sowel 44 did you just call the word “diversity” an “anti-western dog whistle”.
Wow. Dumbest shit I’ve read in a while, and that’s saying something. Get a grip.
I think you have misrepresented that. She says that Star Trek specifically has more diversity than "some" contemporary television. Star Trek wasn't trying to fulfill a quota or appeal to "x" demographics by including characters of "x" background. It just had a relatively and comparatively diverse cast.
Most of the comments in this video seem like they just read the title and came to answer the question themselves without ever watching the video
Dumb nerds are so sick of Cultural Marxism (even though they'd rather die than admit that's what it is) that whenever any halfway prominent figure makes any sort of comment that can semi-plausibly be construed as being even slightly less than fully on-board with the latest progressive cause they fall down and worship them like some heathen idol. It's utterly pathetic. Martin, like all his ilk, are rabid leftists, just slightly less open about their hatred of White people than their modern descendants.
@@TomorrowWeLive hello, based department?
We watched the video, George skirted the question like a pussy because he knew it was bait and a landmine he didn’t want to step on so instead of giving reasonable critique he just said something basic and trivial. People in the comments are now extrapolating further on the point because he didn’t. That’s it
Why does the thumbnail make it look like he's on the Joe Rogan podcast
taking a sip before start explainig, what a genius
That is a normal practice for public speaking, so the voice is clear and throat is not obstructed.
Someone ask him about elden ring
Facts!!
Not to be a huge nerd, but Vulcans and Humans are of the same mother race so they can have children as easily as a donkey and a horse could
but can spock have children?
@@Sercroc I've since learned that in canon Spock was the only Human-Vulcan half breed because he was genetically created, not born. In an interview between Gene Roddenberry and Sarek (played by Mark Lenard, of course) on the album Inside Star Trek, Sarek reveals the origins of Spock through casual conversation. He was a test-tube child, incubated outside of his mother because humans and Vulcans are naturally incompatible
Same what?? With 2 harts and green blod?? The creators of Star Trek did have very low knowlege of biology.
@@alexiachimciuc3199 The canon explanation why most Star Trek aliens are humanoid and look like Earthlings with bad makeup is because many are from the same original race. Maybe that's no longer cannon but it was.
@@Fivehe if you got green blod then you have nothing in comon with human race canon or not canon.
I don't think there's ever a time where faithfully adapting the source material should take a backseat to anything.
His pauses are powerful.
Fiction writers of the future please just focus on a good story. Divirsity for its own sake sucks...
What about fantasy? The greatest Fantasy author currently is George or JK, but the original one was either Lord Dunsany or Lovecraft.
I think a hybrid of fantasy with realism grounds the reader.
@@erikt3162 Diversity because of story is good.
@@erikt3162 Ouch, Lovecraft, really bad example for diversity. But diversity just for diversity always is bad doesn't matter the setting. If you add in a black guy just because he's black your going to get a character that will have the personality of a black stereotype. The character need to be a character first. Other than that you can explain away most things with good writing. Look at the Last Samurai. You had a white guy in Japan and you get to see the hurdles he had to jump through to coexist in that culture.
@@dagonofthedepths true but I would also say, ‘fans’ need be equally thoughtful when initially reacting to certain casting moves or character appearances. While I agree 100% token diversity is good for no one, too many times ppl falsely assume tokenism the moment a character of color is even announced just look at what’s happening with Corlys Velaryon on the House of Dragons prequel. RUclips is littered with comments from ‘fans’ already claiming it’s a horrible tokenism casting that will destroy the story that was told in the source material when in fact there’s a very clear and obvious way casting a black Corlys could work just fine with very little changing from the source material plot wise. It’s easy to say, “The story is what matters most” but we only see that argument when someone is championing diversity. I never hear that same argument being made when a character of color is cast in a role some folks were expecting a white person in... Gotta acknowledge both sides for the point to truly get across. 🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️
@@LordCorlys Well honestly it should. Like there was this article that was running over some super hero movie ideas. Like should we have a black Magneto and Professor X. If someone asked me Professor X sure whatever, Magneto, hell no because that changes his whole origin story and his upbringing. One of the examples I can think of where they didn't need to explain it was in Ghost in the Shell where Scarlett Johansson was playing the Major who is suppose to be Japanese. But her body is like 90% synthetic so the shape doesn't matter. They could just imply that her body is a mass produced military model and leave it at that but they went into a long winded explanation on how a Japanese woman got into an American body. Hell in the manga she ended in a black drag queen body. The character never really cared so focusing on that really hurt the movie for me.
To me I would rather they not change it because it leads to weirdness a lot of the times but if you can get away with it fine but I would rather you do that because the actor is better not because you wanted to check off a demographic box.
The problem is people demand diversity where it isn’t appropriate. Westeros and the story of GoT is based on the British isles and the war of the roses. Big news flash, hundreds of years ago Britton was about 99.8% white. It’s strange how diversity is only demanded when we’re talking about the history, heritage and culture of historically white nations in this case ethnically English, Scottish and Welsh (all white). Maybe don’t disrespect somebody else’s heritage and history by demanding you be represented despite the fact it makes no historical sense and attempting to suggest there is no such thing as English identity, only “England is multicultural” No, the English are a distinct group with our own heritage, history and culture.
Creepy synchronous sip 0:32
The weirdest part is that she stares at him the whole time. He's just taking a sip. She's intently copying his sip. Super creepy looking.
it's subconscious. it's called mirroring and we exhibit it all through our life from the time we are babies. we frequently do this to people we respect or like.
if you watch two friends/acquaintances having a conversation you can see a small example of this. very often one will fidget or change posture simultaneously or shortly after the other one does.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirroring
0:31 Did...did she mimic his movements on purpose. That was weirdly synchronized
BSG did "diversity" best. Race wasn't what made people "diverse", but rather the culture they came from depending on their colony of origin. Capricans were as culturally different from natives of Arelon, as people from Scorpia were from Geminese, Sagitarians, etc, etc. What united them was the threat of extermination by the Cylons.
yes DARK FANTASY!
now you are feeling me George
i can totally see him playing a Dwarf in a Middle earth movie
I figured that George was based on this, I just felt it in my spirit. He's clearly a very empathetic person who sees human being as complicated people and doesn't focus on arbitrary skin deep aspects like race or gender when he crafts his characters.
Actually he writes plenty of ethnically and racially diverse characters.
For the times in which he was a young creator barely getting published as science fiction and fantasy writer, there was definitely a lot of LGBTQIA representation in his book as well.
His most recent work, Elden Ring, on which he collaborated with Hidataka Miyazaki, is actually what I'd define as rather progressive even by *today's* standards.
He has a non binary character written as "the central figure" from his perspective when he wrote the lore (As a historian essentially, it's written kind of like Fire and Blood).
And while you don't get to play as that character, and they remain very much shrouded in mystery, that character is so f_$king memorable that everyone is still talking about them to this very day. There's also a trans princess in that game and she seems exceptionally beautiful although we are waiting on the DLC to meet her.
The man makes you sympathize with a prostitute who is in love with a zombie and is an advocate for Zombie equal rights. I wish I was kidding. 😂😂😂😂
He's very much in touch with the times, George is still as spry and creative as he was when he was younger. I'd argue, even more so right now at this age.
The troll spirit with TWoW is also very reminiscent of Millennials/GenZ.
What a very professional, considerate and interesting question "What do you wish you were asked about in interviews and what do you hate being asked about?"
That's a question that really invite to a wide open possibilities of interesting answers and the one asked can get to talk about something they wanted to talk about for a long time.
I feel like people underestimate how diverse the world is. Go to any capital city of any country in the world and you will find people of every nation and race. Cities are diverse. Almost all cities are diverse. It's ridiculous to think a race of people are all going to look like one another. Of course we're all going to look different. It's not that much of a stretch.
The Expanse handles that very well I think
Am I the only one kinda weirded out at 35 seconds in when she finishes the first question, she takes a sip in sync with him while also unmovingly looking directly at him?
I think she's a synth
You should not be freaked out. She is using psychological tricks to make George feel at ease to get a better interview for us. The table being arrayed that they are side by side is also a trick; you want your friends at your sides and back, and your opponents facing you inside of your elbows. The unison drink shows she is following his lead and that they are, again, on the same side and in lock and step. The looking at him underscores the he is leading because she is watching him for the appropriate action to follow. She is sending we are friends and you are in control of the discussion aka a good interviewer. People open up when they don't feel threatened.
Hey Terran, I know that word.
"We're not going to be able to breed with the Octopus people of Vega" GRRM underestimates human horny
Mass effect writers agree
If you mix cultures in medieval times that would be boring and off.
The problem of crossbreeding between Vulcans and Humans was fixed in TNG when they explain the origin of every "human-like" species in the ST Universe.
He mentioned the wild card series which is my fave series of all time. Such amazing books. Shame nobody asks him about that.
Wombat's George? you have just created a Wombat furry craze.....thanks?
Uhura was more than the comm officer; back in two separate episodes of season 1, she was actually at the helm flying the ship! Back in 1960s!! Check it out!!! Those scenes might only be on the dvd/blu ray edits, though . . . .
Maybe not always, but Roddenberry was more ahead of the curve than people remember . . . .
@Radiyas 13 Yet in TOS women were not allowed to be captains. Also I’m sure Uhura getting special treatment for certain things on the show was due in part to Roddenberry and Nichols having a decades long affair that began on TOS.
What irks me is this tendency to hold people accountable who actually make the effort to write their own stories. It's easy to comment on those who try something. GOT is as diverse as one could get ito of its genre and timing in its fictional history. Let's respect differences but not enforce it onto everything that is or was relevant. Let's inspire new stories and authors to do what they see fit - instead of making it what we want it to be. Creative freedom should not be dictated by current political relevance, but only by what the creator intended. Respect the work in its form - there are way too many couch political commentators that don't inspire any change of what could become the next relevant book series or show. Appreciate great work and create your own if you disagree. And even if you do create something else with all the correct political decisions of this age, there'll be people who dislike it. There are too many tough crowds out there who don't inspire the change they want to see, but instead would rather piss on those who do. Getting so tired of it.
Indeed; Star Trek is really just the “ideal” USA in space - a utopian, post-apocalyptic Earth should be an inherently diverse place with all the best of each culture....Not merely just one “idealized” monoculture
When it comes to diversity in Sci-Fi compared to diversity in Fantasy, there’s one thing that needs to be taken into account: historical precedence. Sci-Fi can get away with being as diverse as it wants due to the fact that it’s futuristic and can make up it’s own history. Fantasies like ASOIAF or Lord of the Rings or even simple Disney stories are all tied to history, and the periods in which people really lived. It wouldn’t make sense to see a white guy in Moana, or an African in Mulan, or a Persian in Snow White. Just as accuracy to the technology and values of the historical period are important, the people we see to reflect those beliefs are just as important.
I guess perhaps if we want to talk about diversity in Fantasy, it might be better to focus on more diversity in settings. And I mean it more than just for better representation. I always get excited when I see a fantasy world set somewhere that isn't just based on medieval Western Europe (I've been especially dying for one inspired by the Swahili coast or other parts of Southern Africa, for instance. I feel that those kinds of settings are criminally under-utilised, and could add a lot to the genre as a whole, if explored properly).
Just because one takes direct inspiration from a time period (medieval in this case) doesnt mean you cant adjust what you want, its fantasy. If I want more realism I'll read historical, fiction or, fantasy. Now I'm not saying everything thing has to be diverse, but using the "it's based on real history" argument is kind of dumb.
Mmmmm kinda. ASOIAF and LOTR are not tied to any historic period, they're are made up worlds. The only thing that really matters there is internal consistency. If Martin says that 75% of people of Winterfell were black, that's how it is. Middle-Earth is not the Shire, or Gondor, is an entire world with different cultures an backgrounds, same with Westeros. Not every place is inspired by european folklore. I mean, why invent a world if you're gonna limit yourself to this one? Gondor, for example, is regarded as the typical european society, but it takes a lot of inspiration from Egypt.
Disney is a different story, because it is rooted in this world.
@Admire Kashiri Yes, as well as LOTR. But inspiration is very different to "being tied to history". Westeros is not Europe, even though a great part of it (mainly everywhere but Dorne) is heavily inspired by medieval Europe. What I'm saying is that the original comparison between Disney and fantsy worlds like ASOIAF or LOTR is inaccurate, because one is rooted in our world and the others are not.
@@nik700 You can't see LotR as separate from the mythology and culture it is based on. It's what gives fantasy life. Elves and dwarves are not created by Tolkien, they were inspired by thousands of years old European mythology and thus have cultural significance tied to Europe. If you change the elves you're not only messing with LotR lore, you're messing with our culture as such. That is not to say everything has to be perfectly homogenous or whatever, but I'm just saying that this "it's just fantasy you can do whatever you want" idea is too much. There is a historic and cultural background to these stories that make them authentic and messing with this can take that authenticity away. A diverse LotR would be.... different. Less enjoyable for me, less authentic. And I don't think Disney is any different. If we take Beauty and the Beast, for instance, we're talking about an approx. 4000 year old European fairy tale, told from generation to generation by mouth until it was finally written down in the 1800's... That has some serious cultural significance. I don't think such stories can be seen as separate from their cultural background and should be handled with care. This is the case for all such mythology, folklore and fairy tales. They're ancient parts of our culture and there's an incredibly long tradition of telling those stories in various ways. This is the same for other cultures and their folklore.
This is different for fantasy that is not directly based on anything. Or fantasy that butchers the folklore anyway. For example I don't care about a black Heimdall in Marvel's Thor because it's in no way meant to be serious about folklore. It just takes elements of it in a very lighthearted way and does with it what it wishes. I don't mind. But if we're talking about more serious fantasy like LotR... I just can't take that seriously if it changes things like this and this hurts how I experience the story.
Fans are hungry for sci-fi or fiction not for forced diversity ;). We want quality entertainment not forced agendas ;).
Having all sorts of characters from different backgrounds is a good thing, but it also has to make sense.
If you're writing a story about the Vietnam War, and there's a Jamaican guy in the Vietcong...Well, that would just be stupid, wouldn't it?
Unless of course there's some fascinating backstory about how a Jamaican guy becomes part of the Vietcong.
That "when I'm done with Winds of Winter," comment isn't so funny 4 years later.
This man is such a genius. If I get to meet him just once in my life I’ll be happy
What’s series is he referring too where Brazil is the super power ?
I see u have a issue remembering things
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viagens_Interplanetarias
There's also a cool series that goes into alternate history, Long series that spans centuries : what if all of Europe had died from the black plague. And just, continue history from that point in time with that particular idea. We'd have such a different world.
wait that moment at 0:34 where the host drinks in unison with him xDDDD
Came for the Martin, stayed for the Simultaneous Sip.
This is the most nerdy answer to this question/topic I've ever heard. Idk why I haven't picked up any AOIAF books. GoT and that universe reminds me of Morrowind a little bit, but slightly in the future.
The problem with trying to make casts and characters ethnically and gender diverse is evolution doesn't work that way, nor does culture. Physical characteristics were developed over thousands of years of exposure to conditions and the natural selection process. This detracts from the audience's ability to immerse themselves in the story. So when you show a "tribe" of orcs or elves with a mix of black, Asian, white, it disrupts that immersion, because anyone with an educated mind is thinking, "How the heck did that happen?". There are now TV shows depicting 1800's English society with black lords and ladies; rewriting history to suit political correctness? It makes the attempts at diversity the main point of the story, not the actual plot. I cannot suspend belief and watch a fantasy show about King Arthur, when the actor is a black man in Britain, supposedly around 600 AD. It seems that being politically correct has become more important that telling the story.
Your references to Rings of Power and Bridgerton were the first examples that came to mind as well. Also, as another commentator mentioned, diversity should reflect culture not skin color. You first need established and rich cultures to which you can attach racially/ethnically diverse characters - which I believe George's ASOIAF universe accomplishes while the aforementioned examples don't
The thing is if story is based of off European folk lore and myths then why would there be Africans in it for example.
If we tried to cast white peoples in literature made from African mythology we would be called out on it.
I guess ASoIaF is not based on European folklore or myths, it’s more about history
@@wserthmar8908 I’m happy for the correction. To be honest it’s the argument I use for when they try and do this with Tolkien’s work which is more about mythology than history.
Brazil was the dominant power in the novel?
That really requires a lot of imagination...
Some metrics actually put them in the top 15 most powerful countries, and they are unquestionably a rising power. Eclipsing the US, well I don't see it for at least a hundred years, but 2300 is, well, more than 100 years away. Imagine if somebody told 1920s Europe that in a hundred years China would be nearly universally held to be the third most powerful country in the world, and that it would not be behind Germany, or the UK, or France, but the US and Russia.
The US was actually weak in the 1920s. Many historians believe it was advantageous that Americans joined later in the War.
So imagine that clean water becomes the more expansive resource on earth and the countries start to fight wars for water.
Brasil has almost 15% of clean water of the planet. I doesn't seem so distopic to mee
Yeah well, we saw how that one went with HotD
Anyone know the name of the series George mentioned where Brazil is the world's superpower? I'd kill to read that!
No. There is no importance on diversity in stories and certainly shouldn’t be an expected/forced standard in literature and film.
Is Parasite a bad film because it’s vast majority Koreans Koreans in a majority Korean country? No.
What about any Bollywood film? Is that some anti European anti African institution filled with indo-supremacy? No.
Its only important if has a purpose in the story however some people just like to forced for no reason,context or meaning. Like changing the Race of an already established character or know historical figure just because "We NeEd mOrE DIVerSiTy" its dumb. Like it feels more racist that things seeam to be this way now lol, im Hispanic and apparently i need to be represented in media for validation and to feel good about myself. like its wrong for me to like good characters that arent of my ethnicity because im so much of a racist that i cant possible identify with characters on a personal level unless they are from the race as i am therefore i need to push for diversity to validate my existence. Im sure plenty of kids that grew up in the 90s like me had no problem with characters like Spiderman,Batman or The X-men and couldnt give a ratsass about representation.
HE SAID OCTOBER!
Jkjk
he said "when I can say: October, it will be a happier time" also, how old is this interview? he's been giving less and less interviews these 5 past years.
Fewer*
@@TS-yc7cx Stannis bonus
Iago Casabiell González, the full interview was in November 2019
My current favorite example of a fictional world that handles this quite well is Dragon Prince. They had the freedom to imagine a magical world of their choosing and chose to imagine one where people aren't continuously shitty to each other on the basis of skin colour, or gender or sexual orientation. Instead, they find more interesting reasons to be shitty to one another, like cycles of war and revenge, conflicting duties and desires, etc.
People will always make new criteria to separate themselves , it gives them a sense of belonging in a general sense
I think a lot of racism stems from trying to give your self an identity and feeling good about it. As a result you put down other groups to make your self feel better about yourself, creating a them and us mentally .
Usually If they get to know people of other races they realize how similar they are but only If they're willing to interact with that group and depending on how badly they want to belong to a group
@Oxtocoatl
How disingenuous. There is no better reason for hatred. Hatred is hatred and the desire to project hatred has the same density. There is no "more interesting reasons".
@@OneManCast I didn't mean more interesting to imply that one form of hate is more acceptable than another, just that the ones the show runners chose to focus on make for a better story
Considered answers that make sense. If you had to choose two terms to describe George, two could surely be “realistic” and “sensible”.
We can't impregnate wombats? challenge accepted
This is just cursed
There is no hunger for diversity in sci-fi and fantasy. There is a push for it but every franchise that panders to it dies. There is a hunger for solid story telling and likable characters.
Man, can't believe people get trigger when someone talk about diversity. By the way, franchises usually "fail" because the studios micromanage the movie to death. It not the diversity boogeyman. I looking at the box office and it clearly show you are wrong and trying to push your agenda. If you was corrected Black Panther and Spider-Verse would have fail because they pushing diversity or those god awful live action Disney remakes would had bomb too (but they didn't, wish they had). The only reason Hollywood is doing more diversity in movies because they want a bigger returned. It silly to think otherwise
The interviewer lady is pretty cool
Yep! Absolutely.
Eh... If you say so. Seemed pretty unremarkable to me.
EpicMRPancake exactly, its cool that she just sits there instead of making terrible jokes or trying to interrupt him.
usually ppl write things based on what they r familiar with. so yeah, white writers will have mostly whites in their story. like where r all the whites or blacks or hispanics in crazy rich asians?
those who grow up around a bunch of ppl from different races is more likely to write a story with more diversity involved. like i aint gon bitch about a black writer who writes a story involving blacks only.
but since we r going there, id really like to see more half white, half asian ppl in (science) fiction cuz u know, i feel super under represented and all that
Iltffny a good writer thinks beyond their narrow existence. If you don’t have surface level diversity, like skin color, height, hair, etc. you probably won’t have a diverse cast of characters when it comes to personality, motives, or morality. Of course crazy rich Asians isn’t racially diverse cause the story is specifically about Asians, but I see no reason that when your story has aliens and space colonies, that you can’t throw a non white person in there.
@@mfpope7431 obviously the writers think beyond their own existence cuz they, for the most part, dont live the stories they write about. im not saying u cant have diversity or that its a bad thing, im simply saying its dumb to bitch about the lack of it in any given story.
i used crazy rich asian specifically cuz when its a story about whites, there r still ppl whining about diversity.
the movie "tag" from last year (or the year before?) was based a true story. in real life it was like 15ish guys, give or take and in the movie its 4. ok i understand u cant have that many main characters in a film. now in the film its three white dudes and one black guy. when u see the footage and pics from the real life ppl, its all white middle age guys. like its beyond dumb to put a black guy in the film just for diversitys sake when in reality it was a bunch of white guys.
the story of ASOIAF draws a lot of inspiration from british history so u know, not a lot of non whites back then.
im half white and half asian. for example i loved black panther, thought it was a cool and fun movie. but do i want a wakandan character to be white or asian? hell no and it wouldve turned me off cuz its stupid and pandering. same logic applies in other scenarios
@@Iltffny asoiaf has a diverse cast though. There's bravos (very mixed place), dorne, summer islands, naath, dothraki, etc.
Also, most of media is full of white people. There's no reason nearly every generic movie set in the US needs a white male protagonist. White men are like 30% of the US population, so you would think around 30% of actors would be white males but that just doesnt end up being the case. That is the issue many people have. When roles that could easily be filled by anyone, they tend to be filled by white men.
I dont think anyone is complaining that midsommar's cult was full of white people, or that they picked the aryan girl to be their new member, because yes, in that context, it does make sense, it doesnt seem out of place. Midsommar also managed to include a nonwhite couple, because that didnt not make sense for the story. Its very rare that someone writes a story that has 0 place for minorities, but we see it happen quite often.
It's interesting to think about, cause im South Asian, but I've been exposed more to western cinema/literature/history, even the curriculum i studied was British. I have little interest in my own cultures, mythologies and histories compared to European history/Medieval English history as well as Mediterranean history like the Roman Empire, ancient Greece, Achaemenid empire etc (in fact im a student of classics and Roman history). So I guess it doesn't really matter where ur from, or what ur skin color/ethnic background is, just what you've been exposed to.
So if a guy who wrote Witcher in Poland which is over 95%(and thats me lowering the numbers) at times when you couldnt travel as easily shouldnt be hounded for lack of diversity since he didnt experience it. Got it.
Seriously thou the problem isnt if there are multiple races or anything AS LONG AS IT WORKS. If a characters most exhibited or rather ONLY trait is its race then someone didnt do their job. If a character is interesting race will not be important unless a situation happens that is directly connected to it.
Also changing well established facts of a world just to add in some diversity is what annoys ppl. ASOIAF Missandei and the immortal dude i am looking at you.
Also someone said that if you dont have a surface level diversity in terms of looks then you wont have diverse characters in terms of personality, morals and motives. No offense but that makes no sense. It would assume that you cant make a certain type of character in a world created by a writer(and lore of said world is up to the writer. Bear that in mind) without resorting to difference in looks of some kind. That makes exactly 0 sense. It would assume that looks define personality. Which is not a claim i am willing to follow.
If I could ask GRRM any question, I'd ask how the experience differed between adapting his work for a big fantasy show like Game Of Thrones compared to his sci-fi horror Nightflyers.
He missedTNG episode where we all come from a common ancestor
See purple hair:
4:30 "The Next Generation" solved that problem in-universe by having the episode "The Chase" explain that all humanoid life forms in the universe had the same ancestors that roamed the galaxy millions of years ago and left their DNA on various planets. So they share most of the same DNA which enables them to couple.
you also share DNA with wombats from a common ancestor millions of years ago yet you still can't breed with wombats
@@Rob3spierre What part of "humanoid life forms" did you not understand?
@@TheTuubster regardless of how "humanoid" they are, you won't be able to breed with a species you diverged from millions of year ago
@@Rob3spierre what part of "confirmation bias" did you not understand? 🤣
@@chippersonsencyclopediaemp1318 what?? who said anything about confirmation bias
Hoping to find out if anyone knows what book he was talking about that takes place in Brazil
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viagens_Interplanetarias
Maybe it’s Starship Troopers.
@@cassipsilva OK I will read those. Some future histories make Australia a leading country....we just can't be bothered.
@@peterfryer4613 I think Starship Troopers was Argentina if i'm not wrong, but yeah only in fiction will you see Brazil in such a position haha, they are a super dysfunctional and corrupt country.
@@peterfryer4613 Starship troopers was um Argentina
You can't compare shows like Star Trek and Game of Thrones in terms of "Diversity" one is set hundreds of years in the future where the other is set in a "Medieval" era. In a future setting, of course there is going to be more mixed and diverse arrange of characters because you have advanced technology, more intermingled society's, space travel etc.. Whereas in a Medieval setting the populations are typically going to be homogenous, owing to the lack of widespread travel options (the only way to get across vast oceans is by ship and most people wouldn't be able to afford it) So they would typically stay where they are born. Yes, there will be some characters here and there that would have travelled to other places (Like Jalabhar Xho, Chataya and her daughter Alayaya to give some examples from Game of Thrones) But by and large most people will tend to stay where they are born.
I'm honestly so sick of this modern day view of "Diversity". Yes you should have a vast amount of cultures and peoples of different skin type, hair color, eye color etc. not because you NEED to have them for diversity's sake, but because it adds to the world building. A vast world with multiple continents and different biomes on those continents are going to breed different people just like in the real world.
But modern day writers are so idiotic and lazy that they will just randomly throw in diversity with absolutely no world building and no explanation simply to check off diversity quotas, you need look no further than The Witcher Netflix show...
Who wrote a book on brazil being the power of the 23rd century? I couldn't understand the name
L. Sprague De Camp, and it was the Viagens Interplanetarias writings where Brazilians dominated.
These people don't want diversity, they're far weirder than that. They want different-looking people to be culturally homogenous, as seen a lot of the time in the modern day (i.e., people from lots of different backgrounds living in western countries and adopting the native culture). Look at the wheel of time show, or the rings of power, or anything else. It's filled with groups of people consisting of lots of ethnicities that all share the same culture. These people are not particularly interested in diversity in the way that we are (because different cultures / species are just plain cool), they're interested in lots of different ethnicities living together and displaying no behavioural differences. I have absolutely no idea why they think this is cooler than exploring multiple cultures through foreign / exotic characters
That's actually an interesting point, I believe it has some non negligible truth to it.
I must confess though, that even as an immigrant who fully integrated into "western" culture, I still find racism and xenophobia to be unbelievably common. I've faced it before and continue to do so.
I will take that "less than ideal" version of diversity as long as it's a stepping stone to "real" diversity.
The fact of the matter is, we are unfortunately still very much "behind" on this topic as a species.
Edit: And regarding your final paragraph, I can argue that they feel as though the "fear" of "different folk" can be tempered by easing this introduction to those "alien" people.
Legal aliens are still just that. But looking white and sounding British will definitely not be the same as looking white and having a middle eastern name.
I can attest to that from a personal experience.
I was once asked why I am white, yes it was funny. 😅
you are projecting. you want the ethnostate, we on the left do not
@@gwen6622 Left want a globalised hell hole with no sort of cultural identity left.
lol when she purposefully matched his drinking, yeah girl you got him
I'd wait a whole life for the final books, 'cause I'm sure it gonna be awesome. Mastery and perfeccion take its time to be done
You're gonna have to wait till the sun rises in the west and sets in the east.
Plot twist: Black Phanter will be played by Jackie Chen in Wakanda Forever
Who's Jackie Chen? 😮
is this the 138th interview then?
Diversity is great but does not show the quality of the book/show. If diversity is used in order to create good plots or good characters, that's awesome. If there's asian to put asian, that's very arrogant and racist : I mean it's like helping someone just because he belongs to a community. This is insulting inclusive pity and inclusive pity is actually very exclusive : "you are black so you have to be represented otherwise you'll be sad. We rich men and rich women of TV know what's the best for your poor ethnicity" they don't say that loud but actually that's the situation today...
As a "member of a minority" lol, I simply ask for good asian, black, polynesian, indian, gays characters, not just fillers.
Thank you, it's like people today are so mediocre in their "principles" that they seem to not understand these things
@@goncalobaia1574 I recently read a nice commentary on that in the context of ST Picard. There is a certain lack of substance in current media. It's more about taking a stand than actually reflecting it and thinking it through (and by doing that validating it).
Well racial diversity in sci-fi is almost baked in the cake, problems arise with racial diversity in fantasy where there is evidently a right and a wrong way to do it. An ethnically diverse imperial army or big city is totally ok, an ethnically diverse small village or tribe is cringy as hell. Dark skinned folks in tundra landscapes look dumb as fuck, as do ginger Celts at the equator. Full plate armor in the desert is just silly, open torso leather biker gear in icy tundra is sillier still. Oh, and race-switching in mythology is just plain insulting to all parties involved.
That last part is very interesting because we're so use to the white-washing of early Hollywood that now it's kinda tricky to depick the race of Mythological characters from diferent cultures. For example, we have Aquiles, a character who has been portrayed by white actor Brad Pitt and by black actor David Gyasi, neither of whom looks like a greek man from the 1000 b.C.
@ Well if it were Rome I could understand, but Achilles is a bad example: 1000 bc Greeks were provincial and ethnically homogeneous, most likely whiter than Hellenistic or contemporary Greeks, in line with classical dipictions and ethnological proximity to Celtic people and subsequent Dorian migration.
Besides, the casting of an actor of Ghanaian descent, aside from being a marketing ploy, to me is implicitly and rather insultingly saying that for the sake of fairness of representation it's in fact pointless to research and depict, say, Ashanti history and mythology, but instead Africans should be ignorant and despoiled of their heritage and anachronistically hamfisted into European mythos. Incidentally the same issue never arises with East Asians, because they are implicitly recognized as "worthy and ancient enough:" the epitome of racism. But hey, at least I won't have to suffer through a Vietnamese Aeneas any time soon...
A more glaring case of whitewashing would be a Jim Caviezel or pretty much any dipiction of Biblical mythology with pasty white people. At least when they portrayed the Mummy with a white guy they had the decency to have him tan a bit, but for some inexplicable reason Jesus and Moses just gotta have blue eyes.
And I may point out that there is a general issue with Hollywood and the Middle East: basically any tan white guy with a fake beard or cappuccino colored person of any latitude and ethnicity from Samoa to Colombia is good to play a Mesopotamian or Persian, apparently...
@T C T C Mind you I'm not at all saying that Asians don't suffer racism on Western media - my discussion was more focused on the fantasy/mythology issue, noting simply that we don't seem to feel compelled to have Cantonese Lancelot or Burmese Odysseus like we do for Ethiopian Aeneas and Nigerian Zeus. My theory is that this rather obvious double standard betrays the underlying assumption that while Asians have their strong cultural roots, Africans don't and therefore the poor souls need us to "include" them and "represent them" in our own - which I find paternalistic and wrong headed.
On the other hand Asian culture is perceived as utterly other and mystically counterpoised to Western culture, which itself is hilariously provincial but belies a much deeper respect than what is granted poor mother Africa.
About the Middle East I can certainly agree with your point, I'm just a nerd that would like to see more historically authentic depictions of it, just as I would like to see more shows set in period Africa instead of the 400th shitty reboot of King fucking Arthur - now with token black guys, ain't we fresh and progressive?
@Admire Kashiri Thanks for the links, much appreciated. I totally ignored this and look forward to seeing what comes of it! Tbh I was not a fan of the exaggerated fanfare around Black Panther but if it serves to finally have some original fantasy/historical content set in Africa I take it all back.
@ Greeks from 1000 BC should have looked similar to today's, BUT they suffered immigration from Doric people, basically a Germanic tribe, hence SOME BLOND PEOPLE EXISTED FOR SURE. In the poem, Achilles IS sometimes described as blond, even if that's interpreted as Homer's describing heroes of his (Doric) age, rather than the previous age in wich the story was actually set
Why not just write these diverse books instead of demanding other do it?
Also, George can't just up and start writing about the Axumite empire in ancient Ethiopia. People write what they know. It is a very hard thing to be completely external to something yet know it inside and out to build a world around it. I would much rather someone with the appropriate background knowledge and experience be given a platform to do the work justice
@Admire Kashiri Thanks
@Admire Kashiri Don't forget N. K. Jemisin. I think she's probably the most famous and well-regarded black fantasy author of the modern day.
Allow me to enlighten you:
Octavia Butler books:
Kindred
Fledgling
Toni Morrison books:
Beloved
Song of Solomon
Nnedi Okorafor books:
Who fears death
Akata Witch Binti
Lagoon
N.K. Jemisin books:
The Fifth Season,
The Obelisk Gate
The Stone Sky
Nalo Hopkinson books:
The Salt Roads
Midnight Robber
Tochi Onyebuchi books:
War girls
Beasts Made of Night
Crown of Thunder
Rebel Sisters
Tomi Adeyemi books:
Children of Blood and Bone
Children of Virtue and Vengeance
Reni K. Amayo books:
Daughters of Nri
Rena Barron books:
Kingdom of Souls
Maya and the Rising Dark
Marlon James books:
Black Leopard, Red Wolf
A Brief History of Seven Killings
The book of Night Women
Colson Whitehead books:
The Underground Railroad
Antoine Bandele books:
Tales of Esowon: The Kishi
Black Sands The Seven Kingdoms
(Manuel Godoy)
Malika: Warrior Queen (Roye Okupe)
I am collecting all the lists in this thread. Hope I live long enough to get through all of them
_Starship Troopers_ was very racially diverse. Rico himself was Filipino, and was in a class that included (presumably, it's generally not mentioned) African-Americans (Breckinridge), Heinrich and Meyer Bitte (German, mentioned) and Shujumi (Japanese).
Someone know which book series he is talking abt in 2:41?
Try "Tales of the Otori" by Lian Hearn
Fantasy series based of Feudal japan.
Just one example.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viagens_Interplanetarias
I actually like racial diversity in fantasy and sci fi. It helps for World building.
Daemon Blackfyre very true
How?
@@MRJTD99 I assume he is more referring to the idea that if we have the ability to live on multiple planets, if one of those planets completely belongs to America, China, Saudi Arabia, South Africa. Whatever. Furthermore, Europeans, Asians, Africans, Polynesians. Whatever. Is a very sad thought.
Which surely you can agree is correct. I don't know how multi-planetary would work if it wasn't just.. Humans. Not sure how that would come to be either when someone would have trouble just seeing their likeness in a silly movie.
But yes, if the gesture is open ended with current Earth systems. I see it causing more hate than not. But that is just on the internet anyway...
True.
Dwarfs are Diverses to Elves, Human, Orcs.
However, Blacks dwarfs, doesnt bring anything to Dwarf race. Except if the ideas is to create some Black Elves lore, which is not about racial diversity. I dont think racial diversity is a thing in fantasy, cause racial problem are IRL based, and cannot really be transcripted into a story.
A great example is the Lightbringer series. There is a strong and well thought out history/development of different races and in current times, in the book, there are places that require people from around the world to be located together. They may act to control everyone else in the world, whether they want it or not, but that is besides the point :D.
6:25 "You can stay."
*The Hugo Awards beg to differ*
She's a commie
What if he just said no?
He wanted to.
Most non white people don't give a fuck about sci-fi
@@s.m.g.2166 : The ASOIAF fanbase is very diverse, actually.
@@TheFiresloth no Dude.
It's not.
There is PLENTY of data on what type of person is in the Star Wars fandom.
And its literally 80% White and the Rest is Chinese.
Seriously, look up the data.
It's true.
@@s.m.g.2166 You don't know what ASOIAF means, right ?
Also I'm pretty sure those are bullshit numbers, because why would a nonbiased source even ask that question ?
@@TheFiresloth demographic data is collected about anything being sold to the masses, you potato. Not everything that makes your feelings flair up is biased.
On a "World" scale then no Star Trek was not diverse at all. Diversity is just another way to short people on what is rightfully theirs. If there was no profit to be made then we would not be talking about it right now.
"it's okay, you can stay at the table" we made the table.
They preach diversity but it's to fill a quota and make themselves feel good. Put story before agenda.
Its to stop native populations from taking up problems with the migrant influx thats being used to offset our own population growth drop
Did ye not watch, listen, pay attention to or consider what’s being said in the video??
Completely missed the point.
@@Saoirse_don_Phalaistín lol your a bit tepid aint you. Undoubted that a contemporary fictional writers opinion is somehow presiding over a current world situation. Dipshit.
Josh Kier imagine actually unironically believing in the “current world situation” you claim to be true.
You talk about this “great replacement theory”, don’t be surprised if people see you and refer to you as a Nazi and stop taking you seriously.
You know, there is a genuine discussion to be had about diversity in fiction, artistic integrity and a certain section of fiction writers perhaps compromising their work. That is something worth talking about. Why the need to bring unfounded fear mongering great replacement theories?
And yes, I would trust someone as well versed in history and culture as GRRM over an unhinged retard like you talking about stopping “native populations” from growing (whatever the fuck that means) and who posses grammar below that of an elementary level child.
@@Saoirse_don_Phalaistín You really are a spastic, sorry I wasn't performing to the prolapsing specificities of your inverted mind. Seems like I'm saving that for my law degree.
I mean despite your clear and complete intellectual ineptness to grasp a reality and carrying on running around in a fantasy world like a child, despite your total incapacity to handle a subject of seriousness without falling back upon Godwins Law and perpetuating accusatory attitudes in order to attempt to sustain some sense of self fortitude in your pitifully small and lowly regarded response, I'll give you a piece of my time.
Nazi? Wrong
Great replacement theory? Wrong.
Unhinged? Unfortunately wrong again bc I'd rather be off my rocker where I'd be more occupied with pretty colors and fanciful imaginations (something you undoubtedly empathise with) rather than be lumbered with having to deal with the failing idiocies of the likes of you.
20 percent production rate decline in UK
Native population reproduction rate in the west, declining too.
Influx of immigration to keep up economies? Fact.
Numbers are there, you're an idiot with a big mouth now go find your mummy.
"I hope there's still some room for an old White guy like me." 😁😁😊😊 That was great, self-aware, and humble.
Epic Gamer damn man you getting flashbacks?
Epic Gamer it means you’re being very demeaning and racist. Therefore you describing white people like that must mean you’re projecting your own insecurities
Epic Gamer you’re saying white people are pathetic just like George because he’s being humble? You’re not as clever as you think you are. I can tell by your stupid childish profile picture. Probably an edgy 17 year old who watched Richard Dawkin vids and plays Fortnite
Rivia Wolf Edits why is it humble to say "there is still room for white old men like me“? Why shouldn’t be room for him? Why should his skin color and age imply whether there should be room for him or not? This assertion itself is by definition racist because not his character or behavior decide if there should be room for but being a "white old man". What Epic Gamer was referring to, was the self-hatred and race guilt prevalent among a certain amount of white people in Western countries today.
LegionPlay you completely missed the point. He’s not actually hating himself or his race, he’s implying he’s no longer in his prime to actively write books as he did. Not only that but years, years ago there was only a handful of different races that wrote books in Western countries. He’s simply stating he’s honoured that he can still write books and compete with much different people from different ages, religious backgrounds and races? What is wrong with that? and I’m pretty sure it was satire and not supposed to be taken literally like you two did. And FYI you completely bullshitted Epic Gamers statement. He called George a pathetic cuck because of a joke/humble statement that wasn’t supposed to be taken literally and compared him to White people that hate their race because of the masses starting to be racist towards them for countless shit other the years.