The Situation With Rammstein & Till Lindemann...
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
- Rammstein and vocalist Till Lindemann have been making international news lately for all the wrong reasons, and in this video we're going to take an objective look at the allegations, the investigation, what exactly is going on and how bad it currently looks for the band.
00:00 Intro / "Don't Get Crazy"
01:29 How This All Started / Row 0
03:44 Current Allegations & Investigation
07:32 The Band Distancing From Till
11:37 You Really Never Know
12:31 Reserving Judgement
13:42 The Music Industry Doesn't Surprise Me
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Till Lindemann’s lawyers have issues a new statement as of June 26, 2023. This was released AFTER this video was made and set to publish, so that information was not available at the time. Read here:
www.presseportal.de/pm/62754/5543913
(The statement is in German, so you may need to use DeepL or Google Translate.)
2023!
briefly translated it says: 1. the public prosecutor's office in Lithuania has stopped the investigation in the case for lack of evidence because no guilt could be proven. 2. The injury to the woman may have arisen from sexual violence, but are not a typical indicator and can also have arisen in other ways. 3. the Berlin public prosecutor's office is not investigating based on the reference to a specific victim, but rather on the basis of the mass of the allegation. 4. legal action against diverse reporting and public statements.
@@MiCaHofmann-cs7ibYeah, not the first time I’ve done that. Haha. Thanks!
I think it's important to point out that very often in cases of SA, cases are not brought to court because the DA (or whatever their equivalent in different countries is) doesn't have sufficient proof to return a guilty verdict but that DOES NOT mean that a crime has not been committed. SA most often happens behind closed doors, with no witnesses or evidence and the stigma and trauma means victims are unable to go to the authorities right away. This is the case for all SA cases, not just those involving "celebrities".
It doesn't automatically means that this was a case of false accusations, those are actually much rarer than people believe, only 2-4% of all reported SA cases (and SA cases are wildly unreported so who knows really).
I'm not saying this because I believe Lindemann is guilty, I just want to point out that this is not an automatic proof of his innocence.
@@spungeonlilly That said, it's still guilt that needs to be proven, not innocence.
It's fair to point out stage persona is generally different than off stage. Alice Cooper has famously addressed that, that being the same is literally dangerous. That having been said, it does happen and it's generally a train wreck, if not immediately then eventually. Even if Till is innocent, putting yourself in that questionable position is a very very bad idea.
I agree with the stage persona thing. A lot of people have said “well look at his solo stuff and the weird stuff he does” like it’s an admission of guilt. Sure, it might be weird, but that’s like saying an actor might be a serial killer because they played a serial killer in a movie. A LOT of these artists are way different off stage than they are on. However, I don’t think that “stage persona” should be used in an argument FOR not AGAINST someone.
@@TankTheTechthe double negation in that last sentence makes it very hard to parse. Could you please edit to clarify?
@@AndreSomers i think he means this:
just because youre playing a bad person on stage doesnt make you guilty. BUT: it also doesnt make you innocent. We shouldnt assume hes bad on stage so must be a good person off the stage and therefore dont do these things. he could very well be a bad person off stage too.
@@Kameo-jq3qo thanks, that might be it. It would make sense.
I’m more surprised whatever is usually in Till’s system hasn’t had an adverse reaction with his ED meds at age 60.
For anyone who thinks "why didn't these girls say something sooner?" I can say as someone who's been assaulted by a friend, that sometimes it takes a long time to even admit *to yourself* that the assault happened. Talking about your assault can be just as traumatizing as the actual assault, and it takes time to mentally and emotionally prepare yourself for that retraumatization
People who say these things never take into account the emotional and mental impact of this kind of event. They always think what they would’ve done logically speaking, but they always disregard how they would’ve felt emotionally and mentally and how that would override their logic.
BS. Woman have a free destroy a mans life card, they can use it anytime they want. Women have ZERO accountability for ANYTHING.
This 👆couldn’t have said it better myself.
I hope you can heal now and continue to do well. My mom was A CPS worker and heavy in the church. I was abused heavily by her, and no one believed me. When I was a toddler and was abused in school, I told, but since I was little, no one believed me. The sad thing is, even if you come forward, it's not like celebrity cases where someone will just believe you, and if you live with the person, you can't speak a lot of times, so I completely agree with you.
I doubt they were assaulted, probably had lose legs and now have regrets. They need to be identified and shamed. If they had sex they did it because they asked for it. Simple.
As a Rammstein fan this whole situation wounds me, no matter what way this goes down.
I agree. I've wanted for so long to see them in concert. It was one of my life dreams for a while. Now it feels gross to want to listen to their music. I want to wait for evidence and proof, but I can't support them anymore in the meantime. It just feels wrong
@@traceyrossmann2989that's okay, just leave us real fans enjoy
@@traceyrossmann2989 Thing is, I think you should still be allowed to like the band and express that enjoyment of them. After all, Till isn't the only member, and this should discredit over 30 years of work.
@@Scar3crowss I understand what your saying. It makes sense too.
@@traceyrossmann2989 Good thing you seem to be a reasonable person. The world is sadly lacking in them these days.
Thank you for this video! I'm German and I saw other English-language RUclipsrs abusing the circumstance that their audience might not be able to properly research the facts due to the language barrier, so they put out (intentionally) misleading or framed content. You really did your homework and gave a fair and balanced overview for the English speakers out there.
i also think that christoph schneider statement in english mite not have been translated right dues to the language barrier. but all in all i hope its not true
@@ironchimp06wdfc95 I can assure you that while you can always debate certain expression, the translation is correct and conveys what Christoph intended to say. Let's see what further investigations into the allegations will show!
Die amis sind alles spassten.
It is a new trend America woman lie through there teeth the last 5 years because they realize no one believes men regardless if we right. So it there new cash scheme brought to you by the democratic party. It's the unfortunate truth, it happened to me and i spent 30000 dollars proving my innocent and I won because I had video and text messages proof with witnesses. I won and they didn't pay a thing or get in trouble for lying out there teeth. It's a disgusting world. And no it's not confidence these women get when one lies, they all see money symbol and run with it.
Thank you for your video. Just a little bit more context which might be more present in the German media:
- Shelby Lynn didn't accuse Till of sexual assault, she said that Till was angry but accepted that she didn't want to have sex. However, she accused them of drugging her.
- The "aftershow partys" for the row zero were fully separated from the actual Rammstein aftershow party. It was more like all girls sitting in a small room and Till would then choose one of them to have sex with. Consequently, I believe Christoph when he says that the rest of the band didn't know exactly what was going on there and also that he truly believes that nobody was drugged. Also the German text doesn't really read like a lawyer's statement (although they certainly looked over it).
- All of these separated aftershow partys were organized by Alena Makeva, who does not have an official contract with the band, but close personal bonds to Till. She would write to girls on Instagram etc. and tell them they would be invited to the Rammstein aftershow party, while they actually weren't. She also wouldn't tell the girls that they are there for sex, but instead always comfort them up until the end. So they were purposefully left in the dark.
- All of the girls were able to leave in any moment, but there was a lot of psychological pressure applied to them by Alena to stay. If they would leave, she would become very angry.
There is a quite detailed video about how all of this by a German RUclipsr called Kayla Shyx who was also approached by Alena. It is, however, fully in German.
ruclips.net/video/9YLsMXyo3Uc/видео.html
There are also reports from other girls who confirm that this is actually what happened but said that they wanted to have sex with Till and therefore were fine with it.
yeah I heard about Alena as well. That the problem that she at surface can seem friendly and making these girls feel She is doing these them a favour, I doubt these girl have much money to spare on concerts. But under surface she was prepping them to have hard time to say no.
@@Acinnn I don't think it's about the money. Most of them had a ticket anyway. But yeah, she is super-friendly and tries to comfort you into the whole thing until it's too late.
Thanks for the info. This Alena should be investigated too if she's doing this per Till. What if Till wasn't telling Alena to do this? I hope it's not true that he took advantage of this woman, I can't see him doing it when he's got other women waiting and willing. I don't know. I love Rammstein and this could ruin the band. Cross our fingers 🤞!!!!!
Plus one more thing: In Tills private Works (I think it was poems) he literally wrote AND published things about raping drugged Women.
There are literally Videos of him getting lucky with women under the stage between two songs. One thing he is also accused of.
@@ledzeppelin1tome272 > I hope it's not true that he took advantage of this woman
He didn't, that's the whole point! She stated herself that he didn't touch her after she said 'No'. The whole thing was never about rape.
I played Download Paris in 2016. Rammstein was headlining that day. We went to their after party and there was nothing but respect and kindness shown. Nothing weird, nothing shady. Now, Till wasn't present for most of it. He was there for a little while, then left. Everyone that I met and talked to in the band and crew were nothing but respectful. It's sad to see this and I hope, for what ever the truth is, it comes out quickly.
zero row parties had nothing to do with the regular aftershopartys.
@@sphinyal8758 I understand that, thanks. I was just stating my personal experience. 👍
I think what people get confused is that "taking something seriously" doesn't mean "believe it right out and without questions". I think it's important to take this seriously because it's important to investigate it and find out what the truth is. Even if Till was innocent, it's important to take it seriously enough so that his innocence is proven beyond shadow of a doubt, and if he's not, then more reason to take it seriously because he wouldn't be innocent.
Whether he’s guilty or not, the accusation is out there and his reputation has already been destroyed. People will distance themselves from him. Damage has been done regardless of outcome!!! Even if he is never charged, people will still believe he did it.
Point of order, you have that backwards. You’re presumed innocent, your guilt has to be proven.
@@SigRho1429 That's not my point.
My point is that taking things seriously in this context and commenting on the video and on what Tank said doesn't mean he's either guilty or innocent by default, but that the accusation shouldn't just be tossed aside and ignored as if it was nothing, especially when members from the band are already posting statements.
If you want to make it as "his guilt hasn't been proven, so we should all just believe he's innocent" that to me is the opposite of what I mean by "taking it seriously", because the accusation has already been made, people are already talking about it and Till being a musician and a public figure shouldn't just sit back and wait for this to magically go away. The accusation already went viral and in the minds of a lot of people his reputation is already tarnished, so again, to me, taking it seriously should in this case have some level of damage control to publicly restore his image, which is what I meant by "prove his innocent".
Even if Till and/or his legal team just released a statement saying "there's no evidence of Till doing anything wrong and no charges were filed", in this context, I'd take that as a proof of innocence, because it's a public statement meant to restore some level of credibility and protect his reputation, and it would be in line with what I meant by "taking it seriously".
You're free to nitpick the words, my point is exclusively on what I think means "taking this seriously" in this context, not on whether he's guilty or not.
@@karloz2722 That particular sort of madness is what led to the Salem Witch Trials. “The accusation was made, it must be taken seriously!” is both illogical and a threat to civil liberties.
Like what happened with Johnny Depp?
There are multiple eyewitnesses who deny the accuser's claims including her friend she went to the concert with. She has also wrongly accused multiple bands.
This was all very well said. Thank you especially for advocating for victims of SA and pointing out how difficult it can be to come forward. I've been a Rammstein fan for upwards of 20 years, so I absolutely do not want these allegations to be true, but at the same time they need to be taken seriously - not just for these women, but to give any victim of SA the strength and confidence to bring their story forward and know that they will be taken seriously.
Yea or it could turn into me two number 2.
Good point, I feel the same
You should update this video with the information released by the investigators.
"The Prosecutor's Office in Vilnius justified their decision to terminate the case by saying that after hearing a witness and analyzing data and documents, no objective factual evidence was found to support Shelby Lynn's statements."
FIlmed a video on that today, since it came out after this video is done, and will release it on Friday.
And make a new one because all charges have been dropped. Till has been found not guilty. He's innocent.
The rest of the band making that statement and distancing themselves from these allegations makes perfect sense, regardless of whether or not Rammstein would/could continue, they're simply protecting their reputations/credibility. They're all artists that would very likely continue to create solo or collaboratively with others and don't want to be connected to the allegations.
The Main conversation within Germany is not about the drugging tho.
It's about the people working for Till constantly lying and misrepresenting things to the recruited women. They made it seem like they would recruit for the official Rammstein afterparties, not private ones for Till and that no sexual advances would be made, when women asked about that. Also they put pressure on the women when they wanted to leave. This has by now been reported hundred of individual people and even some women who shared their positive experiences supported these staments with their stories, as they report exactly the same things, with the difference of having different expectation/being down with it. This practice is what is mainly discussed within Germany, not the drugging allegations.
Surprised Picachu face "not my band"
Actually Till is innocent. His lawyers released a statement that there is no evidence being presented against him in Germany. None of the victims have reported to the police. Meaning it’s all defamation.
Currently, Till is being to be innocent instead of guilty
All lies.
@@Io-Io-Io cope
Do your fcking homework.
The claims by Shelby have been shown to be untrue by other witbesses, who hsve been there as well..
And Germany is going duwn in woke insanity. What is being discussed in the tabloids there is best ignored
I am a Rammstein fan since the first couple albums. I have purchased all their records, as well as Till’s.
Yet, knowing the lyrics and the imagery chosen by Till, I can’t say it would be a shocking revelation.
Same. I've been a fan of theirs since 1999 (I think), and from what I've been hearing about Till on Reddit these past two years or so, I'm unfortunately not super surprised either. I still hope that he is innocent of any wrong doing, but I don't know, I'm not super optimistic about that one and it makes me really sad. I don't even know if I want to keep listening to their music if Till is guilty. Before hearing that he was going down a bit of a sketchy path, I had a super good opinion of him and of the band in general. And I'm so sorry for the victims. I had really hoped that the band would have been a good example of being able to talk about any taboo subject yet be sane and safe people.
Yeah it's so fucked up. I've been a fan for over 20 years and it just messes with your head.
It's art. And bands have done worse. Why can't people separate them?
Till is a good actor, so people think that hes guilty...he has made a very good Job...These people are so dumb who dont want to look behind the Fassade...😂😂❤
The distancing from Till is pointing out that the allegations (which are no longer about Shelby who did blatantly say that Till didn't touch her) have nothing to do with the official Rammstein after parties, they are only about Till's private after parties.
People have also missed, intentionally or not, that this isn't the first time allegations have been made. There have also been allegations that women previously tried to speak out and were doxxed by members of his entourage. Part of the problem is, how much did Till know and how much was the people around him. Why was it that as soon as Rammstein hired a legal firm to investigate, Till's 'casting agent' was immediately flown out of the country? I don't know if Till is guilty of criminal acts, but it certainly seems that he created an environment around him that made it possible.
As for separating the onstage persona from the person, that is true but there are also the fans who think Till is this super shy, reserved guy who is too scared to talk to women. Yet he's also the guy who released a pay-per-view porn video of BDSM group sex where he was physically violent towards the women (a few who have alleged it wasn't fully consensual as were told they were being hired for non-BDSM sex), and filmed himself receiving oral under the stage at a Rammstein concert which was shown at a Lindemann concert. None of this means that anything criminal has occurred, it just shows that fans can have confirmation bias.
One more things, its not just the music industry. Its every industry.
Exactly. It broke in Hollywood five years ago and then other women came forward with MeToo stories including former lift attendants. I don't see why the music industry should get a free pass. Female performers have their MeToo stories as so many were groomed at a young age by the men who discovered them, such as music producers and record company bosses. Celine Dion was one. Aaliyah another.
@@lemsip207 every factory and office and fast food place has the same problems. Old men in positions of power using that power to get young girls to do things they don't want to do out of fear of being fired.
@TheRealAb216 I experienced it myself. My mother warned me about it just before I started my first full-time job that wasn't a holiday job.
I guess I'm in the wrong industry
When you get as famous as like a Johnny Depp type and you have girls literally throwing panties at you. You feel kind of like a god like I can get any hot girl I want and when the hot girl says no you're wondering what the hell that's the same thing when a girl is so hot like Megan the stallion and she can get any guy she wants only guy turns her down to the same thing what the hell but I don't think drugging somebody if that really happen is the right thing
I've never been a person who idolizes a band or band member, I appreciate the music and talent, and that's it, so I can be objective. Yes, it does not look good for Till, he should be investigated in each of the countries where these crimes are alleged to have taken place, and if there is any credible evidence, he should be charged and given his day in court, no one is above the law.
Playing a instrument is not something that set you apart from the rest of humanity but you need to work hard to get good.
Agree 100%. I love Rammstein, its my favorite band, but still they are humans and as such they are capable of doing horrible things.
Actually...if you really want to be "objective", EVERYONE is above the law...all animals, all life, all humans...humans made laws out of fear of their own species lol. Believing naively that restricting ones own species somehow makes you better or more evolved...no, shackling yourself to imaginary rules that don't exist is an act of cowardice and fear. It comes from those who rule over the masses, aka the top 1%, they decide what a "law" is, and the sheep obey the laws to "feel" safe and to bullshit themselves with some misplaced sense of self righteousness. Laws aren't found in nature, they're a concept, they're illusions. Sheep obey them out of fear, not logic.
As long as false allegations are not prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I seriously doubt any of these anonymous witnesses.
Search Till Lindemann and see what August 29th has to say.
An interesting thing is the fact that Till has lawyers working specifically for him, and the band Rammstein has other lawyers working for them. And it's Till's lawyers that are retaliating the hardest. The band lawyers are like "people can of course talk about what they say they experienced" whilst Till's legal team are the ones countering the allegations with legal measures.
I think Till has his own because of his books, and side projects as well. Richard has his own lawyers for Emigrate as well.
Yeah, Till having his own lawyers totally makes sense because he has his own individual brand away from the band. Nothing sketchy there.
It's only Till that has allegations against him. He's the only one that needs lawyers.
@@TankTheTech Maybe not sketchy per se, but very convenient...
@@Whats-a-Chidi Different lawyers for different things. I'm sure all the band members have their own individual lawyers as well, aside from the lawyers working specifically for the Rammstein
You said very important things that most people don't think about. This kind of after-party isn't a new thing. Till's situation looks bad, and obviously, he will have big troubles. Your video is made in a good and respectful tone.
And I believe there's nothing wrong about those kind of parties.
Where's the difference between being a rockstar and picking out groupies or being just a rich dude picking up girls in a club's VIP?
Only thing bad would be the involvement of forced sex or drug abuse.
@@Ohmargod not illegal ofcourse but immoral certainly
I just watched Feli from Germany RUclips channel. She did a great job and has a ton more
Info. She gets all the German news and explains everything.
Link?
@@christophersims3319 "THE END OF RAMMSTEIN? Serious Accusations Against Till Lindemann"
ruclips.net/video/O2Klt_hnq0Y/видео.html
@@officerloop7207 thanks watching it now
Sounds like a fair and balanced look at the situation, thanks, it's put my mind at ease somewhat. It is as you say, that you wish that the members of your favourite bands never do anything bad.
Thank you for shedding light and your own thoughts on this - I whole-heartedly agree, don't judge him until the case concludes. But it sure does not look good.
Great video! Refreshing to get the facts presented as they are and getting some insights.
I don't think anyone should be shamed/attacked for making these allegations. People need to let the investigation take it's course. If he is guilty I hope he rots in jail, but punnishment for making false allegations need to be harsher to discourage people in search of a payday.
100% agree. I’ve said for a while now that if you accuse someone of something and then it’s proven that you made it up, you should be looking at the same type of punishment that you accused someone of. Maybe that’s extreme, but there has to be some form a punishment if that’s the case.
But it's also dangerous to assume too quickly it's 'false' allegations. What is the gain? This is no Johnny Depp situation where Millions are to be won (at least for now) and Europeans or Germans are not sue happy at all like Americans. Many victims also stayed anonymous out of fear from the band, lawyers and fans. Obviously a fair trial is important, but jumping too quickly to assumptions it's 'made up' is also very dangerous
I don't think we need harsher punishments because that will only discourage victims from coming forward, especially if you don't have definitive proof of the rape/assault/drugging you experienced aside from your word and maybe friends or if it happened many years ago. And the victims have much more to loose than someone like Till (most likely the reason why the two women who talked to Tagesschau stayed anonymous).
@@ThcBanaman *THAT'S WHY HE'S SAYING "LET THE INVESTIGATION TAKE IT'S COURSE" FFS*
READ!!
@@zrevival3818 There's subtext and many people ARE immediately throwing the 'they want attention fit'. Also I didn't ever adress anyone directly here? Get some anger management lil guy or come have a talk irl with me
Thanks for covering this topic. I assume it's more or less difficult to get information about this in the US. Here, in Germany, this is a news topic for several weeks now and there is tons of information (unfortunately mostly in German) about it. As Tank already said all of this doesn't look good. There are some parts that were not in the video (most likely because it was unknown at the time of the recording), e.g. universal stopping their promotion for the band (which did happen).
If you haven't seen it yet, Feli From Germany (a German who currently lives in Cincinnati in the US) did a REALLY good video on the Rammstein allegations and she goes into much more detail than most people who have covered it have done. Her take on it as a German who lives in the US and isn't from the industry is very good.
I got offered to go back stage to meet drowning pool at summer fest one year and it was hilarious the look they gave me after I told them I was with my fiancé. We still got to go back stage but the members completely ignored us minus the drummer he at least came and shook our hands. This was back in like 2011. The parties definitely happen. I’m kind of glad that we didn’t go party with them. 😂
2011? So this was during Ryan's first run with the band.
I went to A Perfect Circle in '06(?) with a female friend and some chick gave her a backstage pass but said she wasn't allowed to give them to guys. She went anyway after I told her what she was in for. She said Maynard was an asshole, James Iha was nice, Twiggy was all over her and wanted her to get on the bus and go to the next city with him. She came back upset and crying, I said "I warned you". She was stupid, glad she didn't get assaulted, but she put herself in that position and knew it.
Yeah I was 19, drunk and dumb, idk what I was expecting but I also had my fiancé (now husband) with me so I wasn’t too worried. Looking back at it I am beyond thankful that I wasn’t with one of my girl friends.
I’m glad things didn’t go worse for your friend though!
@@pattycakes456 it's backstage pass, not a ticket to a sex dungeon. you meet your faves. they don't get to abuse you and use you for their pleasure. this has to stop, be regulated properly with security and supervisors. these men get away with way too much and to say yeah i told you so is honestly not enough.
@@eszemaszeszed What experience does the backstage pass guarantee?
Cases like this are extremely tricky, and I think you put out a good analysis looking at a number of different things. Victim shaming is unfortunately a big problem, partly as a result of the fake accusations that there definitely also are too many against big stars. Another big thing with cases like this, that you didn't touch on, but which also is a reason why many victims don't come forward when things like this happen, is that even when a person is charged, the accused is considered innocent until proven guilty, and proving these things is incredibly difficult, specially when it comes to proving whether there was consent or not, like we have seen in the case against two Irish rugby players a couple of years ago. A lot of these cases break down because there isn't enough evidence to proof the person was guilty, and for many victims this means it's not worth all the stress from going out in public with what happened.
I have very limited experience working with bands. I've done some stage crew stuff when I was younger for Rob Zombie and Korn, and I can confirm that Korn did an after party thing (that was not advertised like Rammstein's after parties). After one particular show, (in '99 I think) where we built a rotating stage and Korn had a three tier platform that fans or radio contest winners etc... I guess won, and were standing on three levels behind the band facing the crowd during the concert.
After the show, I was asked by some member of Korn's (idk, people, not a band member themselves) to stand at a specific spot as the fans were exiting that three tiered staging area. He said: "Tell all the guys go this way (left) and send the girls this way to the right and escort them to this door". (which happened to be Korn's dressing room). I said: what if they're together?" He said: "Then just send them to the left". I escorted the girls backstage; I didn't see anything weird or perverted going on, though it was implied like you hear about this stuff for decades (groupies etc...) to occur at some point, but no one was forced, no one asked to leave. I didn't see any drugs or illegal activity, just band members chilling on couches and hanging around. But as soon as that door shut, I felt very uncomfortable.
So uncomfortable that I mentioned it to one of my superiors and he said: "It happens every show, you did your job, then put me to work disassembling the stage". I stopped doing that work permanently after that.
🤮
The whole topic is not about consentual sex with groupies.
There is a legal aspect about sexual interaction with people in a state unable to consent due to drug use. That part is overwhelmingly problematic as the use of alcohol and other drugs is not put into question, from a legal point of view it is just quite difficult to prove exactly who did what. Till having published a poem about raping a drugged girl doesnt help much, too. Of course art and artist need to be seperated, but as an artist creating that kind of art is it reall, a good idea to employ people to cast young girls, take their phones, offer them alcohol and drugs and then send them to your hotel?
And there is an aspect which is not legal but morally and political: This is about structures of power, creating situations and putting young woman into situations which they cannot control.
I just subribed I like your coverage of this since a lot of non-musicians who talk about topics like this just jab at the artist's appearance and music and judge them that way. You're very fair in how you handle this, and I hope the best if this is true for the women involved.
Very well reflected video Tank. Thanks for sharing your opinion!
Really Good Video. I now understand what is happening and what might happen. Also, you really did a good job keeping it subjective.
Eventhough this situation makes me sad and wounded (I grew up listening to their music), I agree with you fully. We can only be rational and objective. Sexual aligations have to be taken extremely seriously. We don't know, if it's true or not. If yes, I am sorry for victims' struggles. What Christopher had written suprised me a little to be honest with you.
According to the announcement, the singer's lawyers now had access to the files of the investigation conducted by the Berlin public prosecutor's office. "The inspection confirmed previous press releases, according to which the investigation was not based on criminal complaints by alleged victims. Advertisers are uninvolved third parties who base their ads solely on media reports and allegations on social media.”
That's what I heard as well. Nothing happened, Till is innocent, period.
Over 20 women from all around Europe spoken with the German Press that let them signed contract so If they are lying they get sued. The German Press of course checked them If they know each other etc so...
That's fucked, but thank God for German justice system.
It's wise not to draw conclusions without more information. I'll wait for the evidence. Accusations alone are not enough.
i agree, at the end of the day though, we want the truth, whatever it is, i love this band, i drove from 1200km last year from canada to the US to see them, but at the end of the day i want to truth to come out, i see alot of blind loyalty behind the band which is understandable as everyone builds their idols up as gods, but what everyone should want is the truth no matter if it hurts their favourite band.
I agree with that, that's why Shelby's story seems less and less likely for me. There's videos of her that day hitting herself (could explain the bruises). Then another girl that was with her all night has stated that she was loud and full on the entire time and had been drinking but never came across as drugged ... also said they had to open their own drinks so that's even less of an opportunity to drug her. Then in her own words she said that when she denied him he was annoyed but never touched her.
I'm not saying he's innocent or guilty there but it's hard to believe her when there's evidence like that against her
@@Mitch3poI've also seen clips of her jumping around arms flailing I mean of course you're at high risk of bruising
Till has poetry book where he describes he wants to drug woman and rape her while unconscious. that alone should have been red flag and shouldn't have been published. Till made porn video In Russia without telling women and there were drugs so again rape without consent and what's worse he made it public making everybody believe it was music video and acted.
This is the first video I've seen by you, and I just have to comment on how refreshing it is to hear someone in the industry, and esp. a dude, be this real about shit. Also your comment section gave me similar vibes. Gratitude for your resoluteness here. It's seen and appreciated.
Great bit of commentary on the whole situation, charts Tank 👍
Thank you Tank for your clear and upright statements embedded in a very objective video.
According to Shelby Lynns story theres a fault here at 5:29.
She got told at the pre-party by Joe Letz "Till wants to meet you during the concert" and told him back "Is this like a sex-thing? Cause if it is Im not doing it".
Joe Letz replied "No nothing like that. Till is a perfect gentleman".
And then during the concert she was still picked up from Row Zero by the same Joe Letz during the interlude before the song Deutschland and led down to a tiny room/booth under the stage where she was confronted with Lindemann and told him right away she was not gonna have sex with him.
He replied "Joe said you would!" and got upset.
So this was not at an after-party but during the show and in a tiny room/booth under the stage.
Apparently this sex-room under the stage is built for Lindemann at every big Rammstein show and there have been other similar stories. Lindemann at one(or more) of his solo-shows also showed a video on a big screen of himself having sex with two fans filmed in this room at another Rammstein show(theres a filmed clip from this in one of the Reddit threads).
The stuff that people believe is okay to do to others is absolutely wild sometimes.
@@nooooooooope3809
@TankTheTech I think Rammstein are a great band and I listen to them.
I still feel Till Lindemann deserves to share a cell with R Kelly and Ron Jeremy.
Recruiting music-fans as "volunteers" to shoot a creepy porno is not cool. Making some young girl who is stupid enough to volunteer like that sign a paper of "consent" is just bs.
There needs to be consequences of this ruthless, narcissistic and arrogant mans actions now.
This has been allowed to go on for far too long.
Or maybe he could blow himself up with some stupid pyrotechnical prop onstage or something.
That would definitely be for the better.
Well made video. I think you went over the information in a really professional way.
I think this whole situation has been effed up right from the start.
Lynn Shelby said she found out how the band would be doing pre-show parties, found out who to contact for it and only found out later how it was about sex with Till. So she told him no, and he flipped, allegedly saying 'I was told you agreed!' So he didn't touch her, but didn't want her to get out from that room for a bit. IMHO, he does like to hook up with groupies, but doesn't exactly want the rest of the band to know (which Christoph's comment probably suggests they had an idea, but didn't outright address the issue since hooking up with consenting adults, no matter the age gap, is legal). To me, the interesting part is that he was _told_ she had agreed. So, my assumption is he did want to hook up with young girls consenting to the 'adult parties', but was not exactly aware (and probably also not caring enough) how exactly they consented.
Afaik, she didn't exactly say it was Till who spiked her drink, but that she accepted drinks before meeting him, and later felt quite weird and assumed she'd been drugged. About the bruises, well to me they could also look like bruises received from having a nasty fall due to being inebriated, and someone trying their best to pull her back up, maybe even security. If you ever tried to oick up an uncoordinated fleshbag weighing about 60 kg, that's tricky, so you have to grab hard. Even harder if she was sweaty from dancing. I mean, he didn't touch her when they were alone, and she specifically said he was angry and shouted at her, but sort of left it at that. Which to me seems like he'd not be someone to force himself on people if outright told no.
And that's where it gets murky. Because if he's been told those girls wanted it (maybe even consented to be treated roughly), and they didn't tell him no later on because of shame or being drunk and/or drugged, he'd have acted in the believe they consented to all of it. If he then was drunk (and drugged?) too, common sense like agreeing on a safe word if you're having some kink mixed in pretty much goes out the window, I'd suppose.
Which then brings me to the story of that other German yt personality, who also went to an after show party after being 'casted' and told how there was a group of 8 girls and how one told the rest they could booze and snort lines and do other drugs as much as they wanted. To me, it sounds like the one doing the scouting was at the core of the whole shit show, and she probably had at least one sidekick girl who'd bait the others into getting drunk and maybe even drugged. You don't even have to use ketamine, booze + drugs can give you blackouts too. Heck, even hard booze and medication can do that.
As for Christoph stating how there's been a division going on, that's been going on for over a decade, that's why they hadn't done much after LIFAD, simply because they'd sort of had enough of each other for the time being. Rumours of Rammstein disbanding had bubbled up back then, and recently again. Often enough put out into the world by Rammstein themselves, by being vague. Heck, even 'Adieu' is seen as a hint the days are over. So, I'll go see them in three weeks to say goodbye to an era.
They were on a long hiatus at one time which is why Richard has Emigrate so he can still be working. He is a workaholic after all and admitted to it as it keeps him off the alcohol addiction and drugs.
Till and Flake were close friends at one time and their families would holiday together. It was Schneider who brought them back together after their long break. He is the band's peacemaker but now his patience has worn thin.
Thanks for the book..NOT👎
Wow. What a whole lot of nothing.
Yeah she claims she was drugged and assaulted. Okay, is there a rape kit done, blood test for drugs in her system, literally anything? Why did she put it on Reddit?
My assumption like yours (if I'm correct) is she got to go back stage with the understanding of hooking up with Till then said no she hadn't consented. He yelled at her probably for wasting his time (that's not right) and was probably pissed.
I'd even fancy a guess that to go to Till's little after party sexcapades requires some sort of consent form. It would not surprise me one bit if his lawyers have hers.
Again, she openly said Till left her alone after their encounter and she said "NO.'
If you’re a woman just know that this is generally the intent when a band asks you to come back stage. Stay safe.
Especially when someone requires a fking head shot (selfie)! So creepy.
They gotta know that though don't they? I guess they assume they would have more control over the situation then they have found they have.
Exactly, some obviously don't know how these bands work. I'm 56, been to lots of concerts ( Motley Crue caught the stage on fire 10 feet from where I was standing 😂) NEVER go backstage, they have all done this since the beginning of concerts.
No just no the woman were told they would go to the official after party that’s a big party with all kinds of people, that’s the point they were beeing lied to.
Edit: but I am surprised in a positive way that the comments are less toxic and more empathetic than under German videos.
Trust me, women aren't braindead. They know what the band wants. More often than not, the girl has a partner and still chooses to go without them.
Honestly as a band or performer don’t put yourself in these situations to begin with. An after party/meet and greet is fine but have lots of security, photographers, friends etc around so you are never left alone with people. No one gets hurt, no one gets accused of stuff, everyone has fun. Ed Sheeran showed this on his Disney+ doc hanging and drinking with fans. Taylor has had her themed meetups.
Someone else mentioned this about Alice Cooper my mom went backstage at his show with her 2 friends and it was super chill, she got a picture, and got to see one of his snakes as she had a pet snake at the time and was interested. Alice was respectful and there was a lot of crew around.
Alice Cooper is simply one of the most intelligent, and down to earth polite, well mannered person you could ever meet. I met him briefly after a show and got to shake his hand. If he hadn't become famous through music, it would have been through another type of artistic or public endeavor. He's simply "that good" and a cut above the rest. There is and will only ever be: 1 Alice Cooper. That said, other music artists would do well to look up to him and learn how it is really done. I don't have many "heroes" but Alice Cooper and Johnny Rotten (Sex Pistols) are the two that make my list. Your mom was one lucky lady.
I agree. Bands and girls.just not take those chances.
tell me how were these girls supposed to know what was happening? sounds to me like youre victim blaming.
RiP RnR
@@epickody3924the entire legacy of rock and roll.
Well worded!! Newest subscriber here, I appreciate your stance!!
I am personally saddened by the situation and wish it weren't so. In that I'm wishing there weren't victims at all, not that they get quashed.
I've been a huge fan of Rammstein music but will probably stop listening, not dependant on the verdict, I just get a general ick listening to artists in this situation.
Thanks for the consolidation of the news (and the update you pinned)
So my thing is I really do think Till is his own person. Ever since his first book came out (which I read) and the two albums I have had a different opinion of Till. Watching some of the videos of the Lindemann project and hearing the stories from the video director makes a different view of him. The video director said that he had videos where during the dance break part of Deutschland where Till is not involved goes under the stage and has a sex break. This is odd, but as long as it is consenting adults then all good but it is odd to do that during a show I would think. Then again this is second hand knowledge as that director was fired from ever working with Rammstein again because of a disagreement between him and Richard.
You can easily find that video online…
Could you elaborate on your different opinion of him after reading the book?
I've been following the story on reddit, truly hopping its all fake news, and was starting to believe it when the person who did the first accusation it turned out that was making contradictions all the time on different talk shows. But with a lot more coming out and with the post from Christoph I don't know what to think anymore.
I trust them when they say that they basically have two after parties, one from Rammstein and one from Till, and that the one from the band truly respects the people that goes there, but the other, the one being a problem, its like I still hope its fake, but trust it less and less with each report that comes out.
Also its really weird how the first course of action from the band was to fire the woman they had hired to bring the people to those parties, without any explanation and even banning her from all their recitals.
Its really sad being the band having problems, after all the time they have been playing together, even taking in account all the problems Till have had.
I have 4 younger sisters, and spent our youth trying to counsel them about such dangerous situations. No one should ever be assaulted, but that is not the world we live in. Make wise decisions people. Whether its the fans, or bands, do not put yourself in harm’s way. 🤘🏻🤟🏻
women , especially attractive ones, will do what they want. that is the world we live in. world of pussy pass. if she wants to go backstage with band like Rammstein, she know what she wants there. she is not gonna play chess for sure.
Yet the rules and situations keep changing. Before a young man would pick up a first date at her parents' house so they could vet him. But a spurned lover would know where she lived and could return to vandalise the house. So now girls and women are advised to use their own transport to get to a date and back home again.
Sometimes they have their parents or other relative trailing behind incognito so they are close by when needed. I had a friend who would bring a grown up son on first dates and who would sit some distance away pretending not to be known to her until needed.
Or we can hold those accountable who do bad things. Rather than blame the women who get roofied and things happen when they're uncons.
Which is easier said than done. How do you know the truth if it is almost impossible to find the facts? Everyone talks too everyone these days. Men are known to abuse their powers but the same goes for women, false accusations are not that uncommon.
It also is common sense to not go into environments where there is a high chance of harm. That is true for everyone. Stupid tends to get you hurt. Which is no excuse, but simply the way of life.
Not going into areas where there is a high chance of harm is sometimes easier said than done. Simply going to a concert could result in harm of various levels, be that from a flying mic stand or a fight breaking out. Fuck, in the US going to elementary school could be considered a high risk activity. We nope’ed out of an airb&b in a Baltimore hood, when traveling to a concert, to find out the park in the upscale district across the street from our hotel had a recent shooting (that being said, the cops were still amazed there was an airb&b on the street we mentioned to them).
Should people be educated about paying attention to their surroundings, of course, but it’s not always that simple. As a society we tend to place far too much trust in celebrities. Your favorite actor/musician/whatever could be a real prick when performing and a decent person in normal life or the exact opposite.
It’s kinda sad that society has come to the stage of teaching people how to protect their drinks and all the other things we have to worry about. That’s not to say the problem of people being shitty is new, but the attack surface has drastically changed with the advancements in chemistry, and pharmacology.
Been waiting for this one Tank.
👍
The thing about Till distancing himself from his band and doing his own thing/parties reminded me of when Lost Prophets said Ian Watkins had distanced himself and was traveling seperately and staying in different hotels from the band. I feel like if someone is distancing themselves there's probably a reason and they could be trying to hide something. I've been doing concert photography and interviewing bands over the years, the things I know or friends of mine have told me happened to them or that they witnessed, it wouldn't surprise me if this is true. I saw Rammstein as a kid and they put on a great live show and I do enjoy the music but if the allegations are true I don't think I could listen to them anymore. It's hard for me to separate the artist from the art when it comes to this sort of thing.
It's also sad that his fans are harassing the girls accusing Till. It seems like a lot of the time these people put these celebrities up on a pedastal. I've seen girls who I know were telling the truth being called liars and repeatedly asked where their proof was. It's not like they know this is going to happen and are like "I better get my phone out to record this". Just because they don't have proof doesn't mean they're lying. People need to think before they act because they could be doing even more damage to a persons mental health with their comments.
Been to a number of Rammstein gigs, watched people get rejected for the meet ‘n greets - after parties for being a security liability as drunk / drugs, the very same people then inventing horror stories within minutes out of anger / jealousy as those going were they couldn’t were ‘whores and drug dealers’ and even far-far worse involving animals and children; the following day on how they were abused even, either by Rammstein Security and or the band them selves.
Complete fiction.
These people didn’t get within twenty feet of the band, only for them to have a voice on social media claiming Til is: (insert a long list of criminality) a lot of it has been tolerated as adding to the ‘mythology of the band’.
The thing is, Rammstein videography their gigs from start to finish, they have CCTV everywhere, the moment they strut from a hotel room to the moment they fall back through its door some 15-18 hours later.
Push comes to
Shove, they should simply stream the content unedited from start to finish, showing what goes on with the marketing gimmicks on meet ‘n greets such as giving the opportunity for the Goth chicks to get sexy pose selfies for IG etc.
"girls", women in their early 20s
@@VHS_Broadcasting you don't know what actually happened to any of these girls. I'm waiting to see if anything comes from the investigation before I really have an opinion, but I know this does happen more than anyone is aware of.
@@YBM2007 people's brains aren't fully developed until age 25. Most of these girls are under 25.
@@MistyLake Distancing yourself doesn't imply you are hiding something when you are doing something the people you are distancing yourself from aren't interesting in participating in your activities. If I love to drink I will separate myself from friends who don't because I know it's not their thing. It doesn't have to be nefarious
The fact that he started a new line with the Till separating himself from the band in recent years and created his own bubble tells me that he thinks something bad happened and he wants everyone to know that the whole band is not represented by Till's actions. It is like a preemptive separation of Till from the band. That is a red flag.
Or it's just in the event that he is found guilty. The entire point of doing it pre-emptively is so you don't have to do damage control if the worst happens. That doesn't mean they think he did anything legally wrong
@@Dr.SpatulaYeah, the band clearly states that they don’t think anything illegal was going on, and they support Till, but want people to separate his actions from those of the band. That’s just damage control in case it does go bad.
@@TankTheTech I wonder whether the band are ok with Till's porn video or the suck box and its video. They have not done anything about it. It's not really enough to just disagree with something morally as the drummer does. One needs to do something about it.
@@gulliverthegullible6667 I feel like Rammstein as a whole treats the band like it's their 401K. They have music and videos etc. coming out whenever they need some extra cash, royalties flowing in steadily, it's basically a day job and they're just coworkers. It's a nice position to be in I guess. But I'm not surprised at all that they have all sorts of distance and boundaries built into their relationships with each other, especially when one of them has some really dark eccentric weird sexual stuff he wants to do. It's like, "Whatever man, you do you, just show up next Thursday for the music video shoot like the rest of us and we're all good."
Except this is what everyone is forced to do, even if you know the man is innocent. If you stand by someone you know was falsely accused, then you will be judged as guilty by the masses, right along side them. Even after they are proven innocent.
Distancing yourself is mandatory to avoid "guilt by association"
Damn. Thanks for tackling this with care & respect.
You can't overstate the importance of the fact that they are in the middle of an enormous stadium run with a colossal amount of money on the line. If a band member breaks with Till now then they jeopardise the tour, which is a lot of financial risk not just for them personally but for the other four guys. Everyone will be biting their tongues and just trying to get to August 5th.
After i read Schneiders statement I would be really surprised if Rammstein still exists with all six members after they service their current dates.
Super glad I got to see them for the first (and maybe last?) time last year. Been on my bucket list for a long time.
Having worked backstage at shows for many bands and genres of music for 14 years, this is wild. I was at a mid tier arena, but only once can I recall an incident where girls were brought backstage with no planned meet and greet, and they were escorted directly to the bus so I can't say what happened as I have no idea. But this many people, telling similar stories, victims, stage crew, basically people at every level are saying something was up. I have to err on the side of the victims becuase if true, what was happening was nothing short of human trafficking. Watching the channel Feli from Germany, she really broke down what the accusation is, who the players in this story are and it's pretty disturbing if true.
saw the same video from Feli. its wild!
I don't know much about this story, other than scanning a few headlines and this video. What I do know is that in my 54 years on this earth, if there's one accusation we can usually give the accused the benefit of the doubt. When there are multiple accusations and corroborating stories, then something is definitely going on.
there are some other german youtubers throwing out facts about it. one of them is a lawyer who speaks from a very neutral position, but he was giving us all the updates about the case and what we should know about it. it is wild. I havent worked backstage much I was just a photographer who went to hundreds of shows and often used backstage areas. though I always was at shows where at least one bandmember was female so there was no patriarch ideology back there and the backstage in general is imo the most boring place at a concert. and I hate that people now say that its normal in rock and roll and the genre itself can get a shitty image now just because of bands like rammstein abusing their power. I believe the victims cause there are so many of them who told nothing but facts. also the video clip of lindemanns solo show where they filmed below the stage just added even more proof to the accusations.
No planned meet and greet? Where was it said nothing was planned?
I agree. However I do believe that the managers and other people who actively enable predatory behavior should be prosecuted too.
There was a press release just released in germany. The prosecutors in Vilnius dropped all charges because there were "no objective factual evidence" found to support Shelby Lynn's statements.
Also there were investigations from a university hospital which stated that the injuries look accidential rather than abusive. There were also no indications of sexualized violence. (Keep in mind those investigations were initiated by Lindemanns lawyers. BUT in germany you - by law - aren't allowed to make false statements as an expert - even if you are paid by one side).
Also they found out that the berlin prosecutior's office investigation started because charges from third parties exclusively leaning on accusations from media and social media - NOT their own experiences! There are no charges filed by actual victims (yet?) (Thats a huge part imo)!
They also filed several cease and desists on people and newspapers accusing TL without any proof - yada yada, the usual lawyer stuff.
Thank you. Video was informative. I think you did a very good job of keeping a neutral position while at the same time giving a candid picture of what the music industry can be like. Whether people like the band or hate the band or specifically, the singer, these are people we do not personally know. It is not for us to investigate or judge the allegations, that is for the authorities and the legal system to sort out.
Authorities found nothing but inconsistencies. The charges have been dropped. Till is innocent. He has be found not guilty for any wrong doing.
I just subscribed to your channel cause your a metal head. Thanks for your content brother!! Sending love all the way from Australia..................
I think the important part of this story for the public/general person isn’t necessarily whether Till is guilty or not. That’s to be decided between lawyers in courts. The important part is the problem of power dynamics, and relationships and consent between star and fan.
There are fans, who want to have sex with their idols and that’s okay. And there are stars, that are open to having sex with their fans and that’s okay too. If those two groups meet and do whatever they want to do, it’s alright.
Now we have a situation, where women were put on the spot to have sex with Lindemann, but potentially didn’t want to and didn’t expect it. And that’s the problem. In the other public statement by Kayla Shyx (in German), she describes that they were simply asked if they wanted to join the afterparty. There was no mention of sex. I think this needs to be communicated beforehand. Clearly. And from the accusations it sounds like they were being surprised with that and that’s shitty. The adding factor to this is the apparent drug use. People are invited to the party, get drunk there and then they are supposed to have sex with Till (that is according to the allegations of Kayla and Shelby). That’s problematic. They don’t know what they’re getting into, and then they take substances (alcohol, maybe different drugs) that mess with your decision making process and your memory. In my opinion, at that point, they cannot consent to having sex. This situation needs to be avoided.
If bands or any other kind of public figures want to have sex with fans, that’s fine. But please ask them BEFORE you led them to your secret party room and BEFORE you offered them alcohol.
There are good and informative additional videos to this topic in German (I don’t know how far you progressed with your German) by Der Dunkle Parabelritter who was part of the music industry for many years himself and has some interesting background information. Then again, you’re part of the music industry yourself, so I don’t know how much you already know of that.
You seem to have a wrong idea of how our german justice system works. The thing to be determined in court is not whether someone is guitly or not, but what the truth is and what actually happened. Only when this has been accomplished, it can be determined who is responsible for what to which extend, and verdicts flow from that.
@@fulcrum8583 thanks for the clarification, but I this isn’t what I wanted to focus on with my comment.
@@kaptnhansenpresidentjamaic9577
exactly, the woman who "scouted" those girls never told them that they were all agreeing to have sex with Till, they knew that they were going to a PARTY and the drugs part is just... bad, sometimes people forget that not because you are an adult and are into metal/alternative you mandatory are into drugs or want to consume them
Love the way you handled this dude. Well done.
This is the best i´ve seen about this by now(from inside the music-reaction-scene). Thx Tank!
Well said at the end there man. This one hurts if it turns out to be true.
That nobody even wonders why Lindemanns partner and songwriter of his solo project stepped away before the allegations without any clear explanation is surprising me. I immediately thought based on his description that Till was doing stuff he does not agree with, since it all did not seem related to musical differences. Lindemann the band was a duo project, read Peter Tägtgren's statement for leaving yourself, it clearly talks about Peter not liking the style of the last tour and leave Till do his own thing
A local rigger once told me, he was surprised Till came in his own bus, but thought it might have been for insurance reasons. That was 2014. So, with me trusting this information, Christoph‘s statement about separation between Till and the band seems to be accurate for the better part of a decade.
Nearly misread the word rigger then as I was scrolling past. Lucky I stopped and looked properly.
@@ChristopherJames1993 cool story
To be fair, A LOT of artists, especially at that size of touring, travel in their own individual busses. Till traveling in his own bus wouldn't have surprised me one bit, as I bet the other members have their own as well.
Recently enjoying your channel, I happen to have wittnessed the "Till Parties" as described by Christoph (the band / lawyer)... I wasn't inside but was hanging around backstage and must say I will always remember it as different of the other bands parties. I wouldn't be surprised some of the accusations could be founded. Haven't followed the story since but I guess it didn't harm the band, since they're still touring.
Great video on a difficult subject. Heartbreaking subject.
The smartest thing for bands and really all celebrities to do at this point is separate themselves from their "fans." they create and present a product, someone who enjoys that product can access is in whatever way is applicable and that should be the extent of the creators and the consumers interaction. Our culture, for good or bad, has progressed to a point where it is not safe for artists to associate in a one on one interaction with those who consume their art.
I actually managed to get a glimpse of this thing way before the media went. Friend of my sister was going to get into the "zero-row" of some Rammsteins upcoming gig and shared the "talent agent's" IG and some messages from the Whatsapp group to my sister just to get her opinion what the hell was going on. To me those looked like normal "zero-row" groupie collecting but on the internet era, but there was some odd requirements for the groupie's IG accounts, some odd policies and like something was wrong with it, but like nothing that much wrong I wouldn't have said more than to be mindful in there and maybe try to take a friend along.
Like, you know, it didn't taste like the normal "We got couple passes for the backstage, there's free drinks and you get to hangout with the band", like too much background checking and bit too tight restrictions and things just were off.
It was just couple days later that the Vilnius gig girl started to spread the story in social media and somehow, I wasn't surprised when I heard about that. Even less when the mass media started to write about it. It more or less just seemed to explained why the thing looked bit strange. For me the groupie thing is pretty normal stuff, more like the silenced truth of touring, doing things with the groupies in the after-parties isn't anything special but shit going into drugging and spiking drinks, that's what breaks the camels back.
I don't say did Till do something or didn't or has someone else done something bit more. But I would hope if anyone sees someone spiking groupie drinks or doing some of that shit, no matter who the big star is, even if it was reborn Elvis himself, someone would go and kick their teeth in to teach them that it is fine to mingle with the groupies but just as long as it is mutually fun and acceptable. Anything past mutually fun and accepted and that's it, no matter of power or money or whatever shit, it's the time to bring the big star back down to the Earth.
I clicked on an Electric Callboy reaction video six hours ago and I've been on this channel since. I'm hooked on this guy.
That was one of the best videos on this topic I have seen.
My neighbor got to party with Till when they came through our little North European country in 2022. He said there was a lot of coke involved and that impression he got of Till is that he is not a good person.
Very accurate take on this situation and the rest of the band distancing themselves is really the most telling part here.
August 29th has some interesting news on this.
Thanks for this Tank!
Been listening to them since Herzeleid. So sad for the rest of the band and victims. Hoping the truth comes to the surface soon
Thank you for saying something on this matter. I felt you found really honest and direct words on the matter and it is good that people like you with knowledge of the industry go forward and say that this is not something Rammstein specific but a general thing. Good society is finally having a talk about these problems.
In the end it will be hard for the victims to prove anything if they didn't go to the police right away.
Thanks for the even keel explanation of this horrible situation.
I was at the show that was the precursor to DECAPITATED members being arrested and later released with charges dropped- what I have to say is that in this particular situation, the Spokane police department acted too quickly and arrested those guys without a proper investigation. Seems that law enforcement in the case of ramstein's frontman is much more professional and appropriate- choosing to actually investigate what's alleged before bringing charges and arrest.
Thank you for your perspective, Tank as well as being a voice of reason in the midst of this whole situation.
Without want to give any judgement here, i want to suggest to watch the experience report of german youtuber Kyla Shyx who has been invited to an aftershowparty after a Rammstein concert.
I do not know if there is a proper translation to english.
In any case, this gives some intresting insights into the scenarios where all of this is told to be happening.
ruclips.net/video/9YLsMXyo3Uc/видео.html
With Decapitated (not sure if it was mentioned before) all 4 members ended up in jail and on trail. Also the whole story with Marylin Manson. So let's observe what happens and then afterward judge the guilty party.
Feli from Germany’s channel has good break down of what’s going, with a lot English translations of German sources.
Just got done watching her video. It's absolutely fantastic.
As a massive rammstein fan, this really breaks my heart. I literally have the Engel symbol tattooed over half my back.
Its all just so.... Awful. I hope honestly that none of this is true, but even if just a little bit of it is, I'll be shattered. I'm sure many other rammstein fans will be too.
It's not. Have you been keeping up with the news? August 29th, Germany has found no evidence, saw inconsistent stories from everyone, not just the "victims" but third parties that weren't involved. Till is free.
Not sure that "uncomfortable" is the best word for "passing out and waking up in another location with mysterious bruises?" Also, there have been many stories over the years of Till's destructive rages, so it's not just stage persona.
Great vídeo 💯
I'm a little too desensitized to accusations of music industry members and I believe that says so much more than anything else. It's disappointing as a human race that we have so many predators victimizing women, men and children and nothing being done past ruining victims' lives for having ever spoken up in the first place.
When I first herd about row zero I thought it was werid, but you saying it's relevant across the industry(especially in counrty) makes it not sound as bad as I originally thought. Him having his own private party that no one else that was apart of the band or crew was at is very werid though
If the band didn't want to participate in Till's "parties" then it would make sense they are separated
Yup, was a roadie for years a long time ago and can tell you the backstage thing is more than common. Even the pre backstage entrance has its, um shall I say obstacles. Seen many sketchy things from both attendee's and crew. Most attendee's know what may or may not go on back there.
With the drummer talking about separating Till from the rest of the band, could there be a chance hes talking about Tills solo project and the after partys attached to their shows?
Good video, the only thing that annoys me is now people trying to make links between this stuff and the band imagery or lyrical content over the years. Because that just seems like rationalisation after the fact. There are plenty of artists out there with a weird imagery and weird takes all the record contact that they are 100% fine. we don’t know what the deal is here, but it just looks like people grasping at straws when it comes to the imagery or lyrical content
Thanks for addressing this. I was under the impression that the "free backstage pass" had the same connotations as "casting couch". I thought that had been common knowledge for decades. One of my friends headed up a band (not terribly successful) and "Backstage Pass" is one of their songs though it's from a positive angle.
Yet there are people in the comments claiming to have worked venues for a long time and having never seen something like this. It's been a thing for centuries.
A casting couch is only for people trying to break into a career such as acting.
@@Dr.Spatula Yeah. I don't really doubt that Till acted inappropriately (Ach so Gern?). It just feels like they're scapegoating. I mean, does anyone believe Mick Jagger didn't do the exact same thing? Mick's got the charisma of a colonoscopy but ran through thousands of groupies.
Thanks for making this video - and for calling out the rush to victim shaming, it's a real problem. Agree it doesn't look good - will look forward to the judicial outcome. Respect you more for making something like this and speaking so thoughtfully.
this goes both ways, if this whole thing was a LIE, the band and Till will have this stain following him for the rest of their lives. as you saw in this video, damage was already done with mere accusations.
it also goes both ways, they have to prove Till did something and not the other way around... If they can prove it without a shadow of a doubt then fine, but if they can't he will be free because they can't prove anything.
I'm in 2 minds about this situation, and there is a ton of nuance that I think many people are missing. It probably needs to be separated into the 2 different topics that people are conflating.
1) The legal afterparties | This is the one that many people focus on and I think for myself I agree that it needs to be addressed by the industry as a whole. I think we as a society need to decide if the power imbalance and the predatory nature of these sort of "row 0" functions, or "after parties" that are sort of predatory and coerce people into doing things they wouldn't ordinarily do. Personally i'm uncomfortable with the whole thing and I think it's morally wrong for people in such positions of power to abuse that power like they do, while it's not criminal, I think it's morally wrong.
2) The criminal allegations | A lot of people are conflating the "Row 0" and this topic, things like plying people with alcohol so they'll do what you want or even straight up drugging people is so far beyond the pale that I think any allegations of these nature should be immediately investigated. Sadly knowing what I do know about these sorts of things, even if it is true I don't think that there will be a successful prosecution.
I also watched the video that Lindemann released, "Till the End", and it made me sick to my stomach to watch. Even if this is 'art' it's so extremely disturbing and definitely lends credence to the allegations made. I understand that they're "controversial" but it's easy enough for people to mask bad behaviour as their "controversial nature".
Also, I find it extremely unlikely that the band didn't know about his antics when there are claims that it was an open secret at the venues, how could they not know what a band member is up to. This is why I will likely not be able to listen to a Rammstein song again after this, even if the allegations don't succeed it's just so disappointing in the totality of the circumstance.
A very educational video. Thank you.
Thank you for your attention to this topic. I used to be a fan of the band in the 90's at the time of Herzeleid. I listened to the old songs every now and then, but after everything and after watching the new stuff from Rammstein and especially from Till Lindemann, I can't stand a second of the old songs anymore. It's not about a deeper meaning anymore but only about violence, hate and violent sex. This is no longer art but pure pornography.
You know art is somehow subjective, don't you?
Hey, Tank. Thanks for speaking out against victim shaming. This is a heavy topic and these are serious accusations. I understand people get emotional and highly invested. But nobody should ever be shamed for coming forward with allegations. So thanks so much for shutting that down immediately.
Shaming a victim and calling parts of an accusation into doubt are 2 different things
@@pieshka4509 Who said otherwise? I'm referring to sayings like "If it really happened why didn't they come forward sooner?" As well as harassment, threats, bullying and jumping to conclusions.
@@BanjoBitty questioning the validity of claims has been lumped into all that other stuff if not treated as worse since the believeallwomen stuff started
@@pieshka4509 Ok well feel free to take it up with those people.
I'm saying that all allegations should be taken seriously regardless of one's biases, feelings, opinions.
Maybe a "Take Allegations/Women Seriously" hashtag would have been better when it started but that's an entirely different discussion than the point I made.
it's just the easy way to think "oh they must be lying" or otherwise doubt the genuinety of their stories. Because then you don't have to think about whether your favourite artist turns out to be a p*rv*rted power ab*sing **sh*le
You know I’ve been a fan of Rammstein for a long time. More so when I was a teenager but it truly shocked me to hear these accusations against Till. I hope he doesn’t get away with being a rapist due to his superstardom.
The most likely reason to distance from him is so they can preserve their own reputations, should they want to create a different band without him. They can't be known to have an unreliable reputation should they try to find a new singer to keep up a new band without Till.
I can agree with the lack of surprise. The entertainment industry as a whole is perfect for abuses of power like this. Actors, directors, producers, musicians, comedians, the entire entertainment industry is practically geared toward these things.
Damn.. this makes me sad... But I personally feel like it is easy for a power dynamic to take place between fans and celebrities, so Hoping this isnt true but should still be taken seriously.
Dont let Amber Heard ruin actual victims of stuff like this. Yes there are people out there who see opportunities and take them but that being said we shouldnt be quick to dismiss.
Just to clarify, the unsealed documents after the trial shows Johnny Depp admitting to kicking Amber and photos and audio was manipulated and many other shady stuff. They are both bonkers and violent people. But nobody was interested in that anymore afterwards. (And nobody even remembered what the trial was about anyways...)
Amber Heard didn't ruin it for victims, the thousands of other women did who did it for less at that. Heard's instance was just a snap back to reality moment on TV for a lot of naive people.
@@katsmaintanklive well godamn, my bad for using an example who most people would know of. ill do my best next time to not trigger an expert such as youself.
@@willsonscruffs Example? I ain't triggered at all homie lmao. You just need something better than a predictable crutch to prop up your virtue signal, you know like an actual argument. Come on back when you get one tho😉
@@katsmaintanklive Im not Virtue Signaling shit. Literally all I said was we should take accusations seriously whether or not they may be false as to not put down ACTUAL victims, Youre the one coming on here Replying to my comment all Hostile and shit
when he says the music industry is filled with horrible ppl, if ur in doubt think about mayhem.
Thank you for your perspective and for being objective. I have mentioned this in other comments threads but when this first came out, I said it's not the band as a whole and shouldn't be dragged as it's Till and his bubble of people, and that distinction needs to be made.
Whether or not there's merit to these women's accusations is one thing but I agree that it should be taken seriously.
Additionally, it'd be stupid to think these after parties are uncommon but the way the Row Zero folks are picked I feel is a huge red flag. When Schneider released his statement only solidified my thoughts on the whole situation. I felt Schneider's statement was heartfelt, honest and smart.
It's unfortunate that Till's alleged behavior is tarnishing the rest of the group right now. But you said, if Till is charged and proven guilty, the band is done. I just saw them last year after years of hoping to catch them on tour and was one of the best shows I've been too, next to The Prodigy. Amazing show.
A large portion of fan base has also shown, in my opinion, to very toxic with victim shaming and as you also mentioned, people don't want to believe that the artists, actors we like could possibly do something like this but there are shitty people who are good about hiding the shady shit they do.
I do believe innocent until proven guilty but I do believe there are certain things about this situation that are questionable.
I just started getting into Rammstein about a month ago and this happens.😣