The End of the Till Lindemann Conversation (For This Channel)
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- Опубликовано: 15 май 2024
- On June 26th, I released a video from Twitch where we had taken a look at what's currently going on with Till Lindemann and Rammstein as objectively as we could. Right after that video released, Till's lawyers released a new statement, and in this video we break it down and discuss what that means going forward.
WATCH FELI FROM GERMANY'S IN-DEPTH VIDEO HERE:
• THE END OF RAMMSTEIN? ...
00:00 Intro
01:39 @FelifromGermany's Video
02:33 Till's Lawyers' New Statement
05:33 The Lithuania Investigation
06:43 The Berlin Investigation
08:54 Cease & Desist Injunctions
11:06 A Summary Of The Statement / People's Assumptions
13:10 The Court of Public Opinion
14:09 Backstage Culture / Blaming The Women
15:28 Done With This Topic On This Channel
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Thanks so much for the shoutout! 😊🙏
Kein Problem. 😎 Great job on the video!
Insane crossover
Move over Avengers, new insane crossover incoming.
@@TankTheTech.....ignore my comment I just put on your other video. I didn't yet know you already saw her video. 😅
Love your channel!
this shit happens everywhere all the time, unfortunately. In 2012, for instance, my then-wife and I went to a Star Wars convention at the local science museum. It was an afterhours event for adults and alcohol was being served. Anyway, she ordered a long island iced tea, and we went around taking pictures with people in costume, talking with folks, you know whatever. well, she took maybe three sips of that shit and was like "dude. this is gross." and i was like "no shit! it's a long island iced tea!" she was like "do you want it?" and i said "not really BUT it was $10 so i'll drink it." once i got to the bottom of the cup, there was a little ball of white material in the bottom of the clear plastic cup that i picked out and mashed between my fingers, where it turned to powder. i was like "oh great" and i started losing vision about 15 minutes later and i also became incredibly intoxicated. i've taken a lot of drugs in my life (10 years clean, though this was not the situation that lead me to stop using hard drugs)...anyway this definitely felt like i had taken a couple of xanax bars or a similar sedative. we called the museum to warn the other people at the convention of what had happened, got no answer, and left a message which was never responded to. i am 100% convinced that someone tried to drug her that night and i ended up drinking the shit, thankfully. it was really scary. we had felt safe at what was literally a fucking nerd convention but someone there was a total asshat. don't set your drinks down anywhere in public, folks. and i hate to say it, but, don't trust people in crowds.
She got fucked lolol
@zzz-222i I didn't even know about "incel culture" back then but ever since the term became popular, i would think of that convention every time "incels" were brought up. i doubt anyone was even trying to r@pe her when this happened but i can bet they were a self-identified "incel" who did this shit just to be an asshole because she was hot.
Omg, someone was clearly targeting her. I think you guys escaped a truly terrifying situation
At a star wars nerd convention, that's f-ing insane
Tills investigation has been dropped because aside from the accusation that people around him got girls to his parties, nothing withstood the investigations. Apparently he didnt rape or drug women. Why? because when looked closely, nobody directly even accused him of that.
As a side note to the Berlin Investigation: In Germany, the prosecutors are required by law to start an investigation once they hear about a possible criminal offense, without an actual accusor being required (no need for a "Strafantrag", so a request for punishment). The "accusor" in this case are the german people as a whole, as prosecuting criminal offenders is considered to be in the interest of all german people - which in my opinion only makes sense.
Yes, what means, they probably would have started investigations because of the media reports anyways
Sounds like something right out of Kafka
@@YBM2007 what?
@@lenab5266 'Der Process', my first thought when reading this
@YBM2007 why though? The only "similarity" is that it's both somehow about a legal investigation. For me, it feels like you want to tell me the investigations are unjust in an pseudo-intellectual way. Please correct me if I'm wrong
This feels like one of those situations where you know that no matter the outcome you're going to feel depressed
The thing that I found depressing as well is, the very second I heard about this, I was like, "Rammstein? Oh yeah, I totally believe they've done it." Same way I felt about Marylin Manson, though he settled out of court, so can't really say if that's, you know, NOT a crime. I'm not saying I don't like Rammstein's music - I'm saying when everything you do as a band - from making many songs about sex or selling a special edition of an album with dildos and handcuffs included, I don't think "Oh, they're so sex positive!" I think "yeah this'll probably come up later in their careers." I'm not saying Lindemann did anything, or that he didn't, I'm saying it's very easy for me to believe.
@@jessicastoker8932 Till is positive he's had sex...just the other person never knows
@@jessicastoker8932yes just like every single death metal band member is possibly committing torture and dismemberment
@@supremelordoftheuniverse5449 Hey, I said it's easy to BELIEVE they did it. Doesn't mean I think they did or endorse the idea. Also, as this very video mentions, sexualized behavior and bands kinda' go hand-in-hand. The idea that "nobody will ever go too far" is outlandish, so rather than be ultra defensive when news comes out like "band member may have committed sexual misconduct," I just go, "Well, that sucks. We'll see what happens."
Also, because I think it's funny, I REALLY want to bring up Cannibal Corpse...
@@supremelordoftheuniverse5449Nah, they only burn churches. Based tho. 🤣🤣
i need to double down on the shout out to Feli from Germany's channel. she does great stuff & even though i still don't speak German, her videos (along with Rammstein songs & old WWII movies have helped me either pick up or understand words in German). if anyone is remotely interested in learning the language, her vids are a must add to your playlist. not to mention her video on this particular topic is extremely thorough & well put together. big shout out to Feli
I found her through Radical Living also in English but is mostly about Berlin. There are Brits and people from the USA speaking about life in Germany if they went there to study German or work.
Yeah, "Feli"'s done a marvellous job ... ^^
... a marvellous propaganda-supportservice-job for the left-identitarian, woke and feministic infested german media-machine.
Everything You need to know ...
Shame on 'Feli'. She's no German!
She did a great job
Yes she has some good videos. I found her after I watched Tanks first video on this.
Feli spread Shelbys fake story days after it was offially refuted. She also didn't do any investigation on her own, because if she did, she would have known, that there have been multiple witnesses form the beginning, calling Shelby out for her lies. Also she gave a platform to Kayla and her video, which did massive damage to Lindemann, although nothing at all ever happened to her. She has actually never even met him, but every German has heard of that video and just assumes, she'd be a victim, due to the media making it look that way. There's many issues with Kayla tbh. She publicly says, she d sell her soul for money. She likes to drop the n-bomb. She sexualizes herself like no one I ve ever seen and was (or maybe still is) a testimonial for a porn platform, which is ok, but this makes her indignation about a guy who might see her as a sexual being just ridiculous.
I m personally very disappointed by Feli! I d go as far as to say it was a crime, that she released it, without even mentioning all the new informations, that have been out in the public by the time she put it up on RUclips.
I watched the Feli from Germany video on Till Lindemann and Rammstein and the allegations. You are right she did a great job on her video and covered a lot of information.
The women attending these gatherings can dress as scantily as they want and should be able to still feel safe.
Going to an after party is way different than going to someone's hotel room. Even in the hotel room No should still count.
Show business is such a shady environment.
An old neighbor said several times "Profit from disaster."
With the controversy, Rammstein has several albums that re-entered the German Top 100 Charts.
Accurate statement to bring up. Look what happened to Morgan Wallen. Dude was on the verge of being fully cancelled and now he’s the #1 country artist on the planet.
@@TankTheTech That CAN happen ...
@@TankTheTechThe old adage never fails! NO PRESS is bad press!
That might at least partly be because of the on-going tour. When f.ex. Metallica comes to Finland, their albums re-enter the charts here.
Nowadays album sales are very low compared to 80s or 90s, so entering charts does not mean anything. An album with a few thousand copies sold can be #1 in most of countries.
The authorities in Lithuania have stopped their investigatinons, but actually the German authorities have been investigating Till for some time now and they are continuing to do that. Sadly: I think it does not matter what they will find out at this point, as much of the damage to the reputation of the band has already been done.
I agree. It's important for everyone to remember that the Berlin investigation is solely based on third party accounts and stories from people online (per Till's lawyer's statement), and not from people coming forward and filing reports. But I believe you're right in saying a lot of the damage to the reputation of the band has been done. (I know this video isn't live yet, but as you'll see, I think we all need to just let everything play out and see where it goes from here.)
Guilty until proven otherwise. Pray this never happens to any of you.
@@joeyvanostrand3655 it's called innocent until proofen guilty. and so far no one is found guilty
@@mauke90he means getting canceled based on just allegations. Pretty common nowadays.
They have been investigating based on reports from Kayla and Shelby and other media stuff. They will find the same
Tank, in case you didn't know, this upload here is your 666th video on the channel. No joke. 😮
Oh damn. Hahahahaha. 🤘🤘🤘
HAIL TANK
I was very impressed with how Feli broke down this story in great detail, especially since she doesn't usually cover very serious topics like this. I was surprised with how much detail there was that we wouldn't have necessarily gotten as Non-German speakers.
Great way to cover the topic, still staying objective and giving interpretations.
That's what everyone should do. Wait and see what the investigators might or might not find. Giving opinions does not help finding the truth.
"That's what everyone should do. Wait and see what the investigations might or might not find."
Then why are you clapping for this video with that stupid "Great way to cover the topic , still staying objective and giving interpretations", which deciphered means: blabbering like anystupidelse does ...
You moron ... :)
Amen!
Feli from Germany is amazing! Great call out.
Unpopular opinion: Just because "it's always happened" or "they knew what they were there for" doesn't mean that these sorts of power dynamic experiences aren't predatory and shouldn't be illegal. It's 2023 and the industry needs to do better in my honest opinion.
Couldn't agree with you more.
not unpopular but perhaps naive... power and sex dynamics are built into us as a species, legislate it all you want but that won't make it go away
@@Zennofobic I don't think that wanting people to be safe and desiring everyone to enjoy music equally is naïve, idealistic maybe. Maybe it was "built into us as a species" at the beginning of our evolution, but we're Neanderthals or Denisovans anymore, we can do better going forward.
@@Bunstonious Not that easily. It's still built in, whether we like it or not. Same way we still have other "features" that became more of a hindrance than help in a modern industrial world, like putting on weight when an abundance of food is available or being built for more movement than is feasible in an office job.
It's not simply a matter of deciding to not follow that anymore. You have to actively struggle against your own nature.
But how do meassure the power dynamic? Someone i love or am realy attracted to does without a doubt more power over me then someone that i don't like.
Does that mean that i can't be with someone i like, because i would be happy to do stuff with them because i like them?
Very much respect you not wanting to cover topics like this more. Thank you for explaining what's happening so far, you've made it very easy to understand the main current points
I actually watched Feli's video immediately after watching your last one, super informative.
What I think is missing in much of the more international discussion is this: the discussion in Germany is heavily focused on the ethical side of things. That whole elaborate system that was created to lure in young and often inexperienced women and that put these women in uncomfortable and dangerous situations, putting a lot of pressure on them. It's a discussion about power imbalances and it's confirmed at this point that that syatem existed. Even if it's not illegal, it's morally VERY questionable. Things were bubbling up since a few years anyway around Lindemann's projects, but they didn't get much traction. Now it just blew up, but it's nothing new tbh. I for one am disgusted by Lindemann's behaviour regarding the system he created and how he handles the allegations now (with his lawyers doing the exact opposite of what the band said in an official statement).
Was there something that he can legally be punished for? Idk, we will see. The vast majority of SA cases are dropped unfortunately because it's so difficult to prove something. To all the people crying about fake allegations: they are rare. As a guy you are more likely to not be punished even if you actually assaulted someone than to get false allegations. Police often does not take victims seriously either.
Women who spoke about their experience with Lindemann openly received a lot of death threats. So it's no wonder most remain anonymous. Btw, just because they are anonymous to the public does not mean that they are anonymous to the police. So we don't know what's exactly going on rn.
But as I said, the system and how it generally worked is confirmed at this point and for me it's definitely morally wrong, even if it ends up being legally okay. So I'm done with Rammstein and that's it. In the end, everyone has to decide what they personally find ok and what not.
Well said. There is more thanks just the legal part of it
Don't feel bad about your last video. I think you have done a great job covering this story. Thank you for it all and your hard work brother
They can't do shit about Kayla's video. All she did was describe her experiences. There's a german lawyer channel similar to legal eagle i guess called wbs legal and the dude went over it and basically said that as long as she's describing what she has seen there's nothing to sue over.
I mean, doesn’t defamation necessitate that the statement is untrue? Isn’t the point that they would accuse her of lying or exaggerating
She tried to tie herself to the allegations in a cynical and speculative way with nothing to show for it, one big nothingburger
Thats not exactly what he said. He said she does not have to sue TL, because laywers will do that automatically for her and all the other ones. Laywers have to investigate to make sure no crime took place.
All the statements / chats / and events happening over time are / were investigated by media, and now laywers.
That's not going to stop lawyers from trying to bully someone in to doing what they want. Threats and legal costs can be just as prohibitive as actual legal judgements.
@@robertstull8759 Read up on the UK defamation laws, they exist for a reason and I'm confident these allegations will end up in a UK court post-investigation
You are very good at covering these topics and promoting healthy discussions. Your channel evolution has been really awesome to see.
Great video and yes, Feli is amazing! I've been following her channel even before it changed names and had to rebrand. Thank you for making this video, it's important to clarify this type of issues\incidents and the music industry.
I've honestly been to a lot of backstage areas, and I haven't had that experience. The idea that that's just how it is is a bit concerning to me, tbh.
same, I find it VERY disturbing. Like women who go backstage are meat. No, a lot of bands treat their fans respectful. Not only groupies go back stage, also the die hard fans. I went back stage with Anthrax and we had a blast. Nothing sexual. There are ofcourse bands who are into that stuff. But NO means NO. Also back stage. I am not refering to this case, just in general.
@@monicacarolina6480 I mean, how many of these diehard superfans are guys going backstage with the band? Legitimate question, I have no idea. But if you're looking at a 9/10 ratio of girls, I'm going to say while tank's right that you should never have to enter a place under the assumption that it's going to be unsafe and dangerous, if I enter a BDSM club, I enter knowing I'm likely to have my sensibilities offended. Not a 1 to 1 comparison, but you get my drift.
@@humblekek-fearingman7238 That's a bit of an odd comparison. You know what happens in a BDSM club and if you don't like BDSM, why would you enter it? And BDSM is big on SSC (safe, sane, consensual).
Meanwhile, going backstage... there's no sign there that says "sex from this point". People can go backstage for all kinds of reasons. Wanting to meet their idols does not equate to wanting to fuck those idols. And if anyone wants to engage in anything sexual, they need to ask for consent first. Going backstage is not consent.
There's probably guys going backstage too, people just prefer to look at women who do it because, yes, there's a big undercurrent of misogyny in this debate. Or not so under... some people in this comment section are proof of how bad it gets, acting as if going backstage is in itself consent to sex.
This may just be my neurodivergency, but if a band I liked asked me to go backstage, I would not immediately think of sex? I'd want to talk shop with them because I love creative work. This idea that "everyone knows what going backstage means" is really inaccurate and just further maligns women who come forward about having been abused.
And it's this bad for the women who have been abused. I can only imagine how hard it is for the men who have been abused. Because that absolutely happens too.
There's just something very sick in the concert industry that we need to contend with. Everyone deserves to be safe.
@@monicacarolina6480 Oh yeah, most of them just like to be admired and to not feel isolated from their audience. If everyone is having a blast in the audience and you're sitting alone backstage, that can feel lonely. I've literally sat with the bassist of one of my favourite bands for hours while he talked about his wife's cancer diagnosis. Touring is tough, even if it is a lot of fun.
@@TheYasmineFlower
YES thank you, I don't like the double standards of that, I want to be treated like a human being regardless of my gender, there's several girls and people in general that want to go backstage and to after parties with their significant other or just because they're fans and want to engage in a convo, not everything is about sex!
same, i am also neurodivergent and i don't get the "read between lines", people have to be clear with their intentions if they're gonna engage in sexual activity, the consent has to be explicit and not just expect someone to know that they're going into
Great video. As a 52 year old woman, I was planning on seeing Rammstein in Budapest when I visit family in a couple of weeks. Also, as a woman who was a teen during the 80's, who loved "Hair Bands" I would try to sneak back stage to meet my favorite bands. The giving of back stage passes to women for sex has been going on for many years before our time. I knew at 15 exactly what was going on. I don't know how this translates to grooming someone, but also it doesn't matter who you are you should always treat someone with respect, and provide a safe environment. I also believe in innocent until proven guilty. I think I will go see them in Budapest.
Saw them 3 weeks ago in Munich, it was fantastic. Hope you have a great time if you go. Especially if it turns out to be the last tour. Innocent until proven guilty!
Well said! I wouldn’t have said it (being a man) but an invite backstage isn’t the hardest code to break and work out what it means. It’s gone on since rock and roll was invented and probably well before that too, hell Elvis was terrible for it, it’s been well reported, so no way someone doesn’t know what’s going on. Ironically while typing this, an ad for Motly Crue’s tour came up, can you imagine how many girls went back stage with them 😳
I believe Tills innocent. I think he’s into the kink lifestyles but that doesn’t make him a predator.
And quite Frankly I highly doubt Lindemann is struggling to get laid. Even at 60!
The woke media is sounding like they have never heard of groupies and never heard of groupies having sex with musicians. They are women. They are of age. They have brains. Normally the women actually like the musicians otherwise they wouldn't try get backstage for fks sake. None of these woman have gone to the police except for Shelby and her story has more holes in it than the titanic when it struck the ice burg in 1912.
Her accusation won't even make it to court because it'll fall apart.
@@Yosser70 Oh yeah, let's blame the victims because they forgot that all men are apparently creeps who can only think of sex all the time and have no self control? You seemed to have missed the part where Rammstein also had backstage parties that were not meant as orgies.
I love Feli!!i.. she is a no BS, non-click bait content creator.
Feli from Germany's content is always incredibly well thought out, well presented, entertaining and fun. If you are interested in German culture and language and a non-native's perspective on the U.S., I highly recommend her channel. Not just for the excellent episode she did regarding this story.
You must heard from us German people, cause we are arrogant holy people who just believe what other saying..and be not better than other...Thats what i hate about my culture...Rammstein mirrors our bad actions for 30 years and they are the best thing what happened to our Country ever❤❤❤❤
Feli's video was actually how I found out about all of this. Her channel is great if you're interested in cultural differences. Glad she covered this topic. I thought your video on this was also well done.
There are two sides of this: the legal issue and the ethical one. Legal has to be decided by judges and experts. The ethical point of view is much harder to clarify. And tbh this is not going away anyways. Whatever happened during this parties might not be legally problematic, but might still be ethical questionable.
And as long as Till shows no sign of being sorry for people feeling unwell at or after his parties, that's one of the most important signs he doesn't really care about the people at his parties.
If you knew someone felt violated after attending your party, would you not at least care? Even if you didn't feel like doing anything wrong, ethically or legally.
... and ethics are to be decided in every single individual ! -
They are having a wild party in one of the back rooms. I'm sure they had a great time. If they feel bad after they leave there is nothing he can do.
I once went to a concert and spent all my last money for booze. The next day was awful and I had next to nothing to eat. And it's still my fault that I went there. And did what I did
@@BannschwertHe feels no remorse for what he puts his bandmates through on stage and in music videos especially Flake. Or the girls in his solo project videos, such as Till the End and Einz Plat, who looked drugged to me. I doubt islf they agreed to everything beforehand in detail. They are hard porn as opposed to Rammstein's Pussy video which is more 70s style soft porn. Or the children in the Rammstein videos such as Engel, Dicke Titten, and Mein Hertz Brennt.
@@TheLuftpolsterfolie Well, I am going to have to assume you have been living as a man, women at times are not expected to have agency.
Been following Feli for a few years. She has GREAT content.
I would dissent in one important point.
For one I find it highly dubious that a doctor, even if paid by the defendant's lawyers, even tries to make an assessment from what boils down to 3 poorly lit photographs.
And even then when you read the original text of the doctor's statement and not the lawyer's letter, it all boils down to it's 100% inconclusive and can't be determined either way.
The lawyers then turn this around into absolutely no proof for violence.
This!
All they are saying is violence can *probably* be ruled out, did you even listen?
Well, technically the prosecution / the person making allegations has to prove that there was a punishable offence, not the defendant the absence thereof. It is therefore completely legit for the defending party to present a doctor's expertise which states that there is no conclusive evidence of any deliberate injuries.
@@darkawakening01 The doctor didn't totally rule out deliberate injuries. Plus his "expertise" would not be admissible in court - you cannot take his judgement seriously as he only looked at badly taken photographs, not the wounds themselves.
"it's 100% inconclusive and can't be determined either way"
Right, which is why that information tells us nothing about what did or didn't happen. The statements from lawyers also do not constitute evidence either. I think because of the harm that was caused (if the allegations are true), the potential future harm, and the fact that the statements don't vindicate Lindemann, taken together means this needs a serious ongoing criminal investigation.
Feli’s video is amazing and had you not shouted it out I was going to.
If Lindemann is guilty or not will be of course decided by a court (if it comes so far). But I am afraid it is a very difficult situation, because KO drugs are only traceable for 12 hours after the intake and to figure out what happened in rooms behind the stage will be also probably impossible to assess.
That being said: Lindemann has all the resources to have a big Rammstein fetish/sex party after the concert. Nonetheless he decided to employ people like Makeeva, who recruited girls for him from the concerts (but also other places). And apparently transparency was really not important while doing so, but more his power position, which he (ab-)used for it. Yes, its not illegal, but he really doesnt get any brownie points in my eyes for pulling off such crap to say the least. Quite the opposite...
Yeah, if you have the chance to legally get lots of women who want to have sex with you, then why do you create such a system? That’s highly problematic from my point of view.
Haha, After I saw your video I watched Feli's video to get more info...so much more info there!
If people have genuine stories, it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't go to police. The process for doing so is horrible and quite often the circumstances just mean there isn't enough evidence. Also, I think "people know what goes on backstage" is a bit of an assumption based on a culture that is pretty outdated. Younger women especially will not be expecting to be used for sex in a post MeToo era. No idea what has happened with Rammstein but these factors remain.
I don’t know if we can call this a post metoo era, it is pretty recent and most of those in show business are still the same people. If anything MeToo should have made women more aware of the dangers.
Having watched a couple of hundred women in the fire zone and zero zone pull their tits out at Rammstein gigs, the whole not down to non-committal Fk’n isn’t a thing.
Shelby and Kayla appear to want to have everyone’s cake and eat it too.
Are they really that naive when they hoe around the internet every day?
I think it's important to repeat that in a lot of these situations abusers (regardless of if Lindemann did or didn't do this) specifically target young people who are a lot more likely to be naive of the long history of abuse in rock music and who are a lot less likely to believe the allegations or take them seriously, because the folly of youth always says "it'll never happen to me" until it does.
Regardless, that doesn't excuse the abuser just because the victim should have known better. We prosecute con artists and thieves, even if their victims should have known better than to trust them. We don't blame murder victims if they're in the "wrong part of town". We treat thieves and murders as criminals regardless, so why do not do the same with SA victims? That's a hypothetical question. I have my hypothesis that I won't go into here.
I also completely concur with you about "not going to the police". I can't speak for anywhere but the USA, but in the States police rarely take those allegations seriously even if you've gone to the ER and gotten a r@p3 kit procedure. As Feli points out in her video, most of these legal investigations only get started AFTER there's been a media investigation and they're pressured into it.
I wanted to write something like this but struggled to word it well. Thanks to you, I don't need to. Well written
Thank you for overing this story. We all know there is a lot of stuff going on in the world of 'Sex drugs and Rock 'n' Roll' , there is always the line of legality and/or harm to other people that should not be crossed.
That being said, I recently discovered the artist Scene Queen and her song 18+ that sort of covers this same issue in the music industry. Don't know if you know this artist/song, but if you don't I highly recommend it.
noone should ever bash you. i dont know you in person but its obvious you are a genioun person speaking (and headganging ) his heart out. Keep it up my man and hope we meet in UK at some point for a pint soon
I'm a new subscriber and I already dig your content. Thank you for being unbiased in your videos on this matter.
Great work mate. Restraint is a rare commodity online and it's very much appreciated. You have a new subscriber.
Important detail imo; Till's party is not the same as the standard afterparty that takes place. The drummer made a statement about it that Till and them separated a years ago in regards to the parties.
Most of the Row 0 girls think they will be going to the band's parties. There is one other band member sometimes present at Till's parties. It was mentioned the guitarist but which one?
@@lemsip207 Richard Kruspe
@@sany9444 Thanks. Someone on the Colonel Kurtz channel said it was Paul but they look a bit similar so easy to get confused.
@@lemsip207 Spiegel_10.06.2023 -
Google-Translator:
"Once, after a concert in Munich 2019, W. remembers it at the after-after show party a loud argument between Lindemann and guitarist Richard Kruspe came. You could have felt the same Girls selected for sex and yelled at each other, saying the woman, who was around 20, seemed distraught."
separated years ago? sounds weird because they still a band. hope that this is false claims but feels a bit strange so might be some truth in them sadly.
to be completely accurate, she never claimed that she was physically abused.... she stated that she had weird reactions to drinks she got offered which also caused a gap in her memory and that she does not remember where the bruises came from.... she never claimed she was abused or assulted, at the very most, you could interpret her statement as an implication, but that still requires quite some interpretation by the viewer
On a side note: funny to see how I had been watching 2 channels for years and now they came together... the video by you and Feli
1000% as expected. Very well done.
Personally, I didn't think the last video was tabloidy, I thought it was balanced while explaining these types of situations do happen on tours. I always appreciate your perspective on all things music and touring. As I said in my previous comment on the last video, any accusations should be investigated and if there is any credible evidence, the accused should have their day in court.
Even if all of the most serious allegations are false, I think the system of recruiting so many very young women in sort of an assembly line is not where we should be in 2023. It sounds like a lot of that system has been shut down by the band, which I guess is some sort of progress. But I think there is more investigation by the authorities needed.
Never commented on your videos before, so, first ever comment! Anyways, I watched an interview that had an eye witness account of the very concert in question involving Shelby. The girl being interviewed was in Row 0, went to the before party, as well as Till's private after party. She said Shelby was obnoxious straight out of the gate. Got absolutely hammered at the before party and was being rowdy and pissing off security. She was jumping around and repeatedly bounced of the barrier/stage (explains the bruises). She also stated that she never seen Shelby leave with anyone during intermission, and that Shelby was always talking to her friend (which means Shelby had someone with her. Where's this persons testimony? Hmmm...). Also, Shelby never went to the After Party. The witness didn't see her at either the Band's after party or Till's, and all band members and Till were accounted for. Here is the link to the interview so you can watch it in your own time. Btw, I became a fan of your channel due to your reactions to FiR :P ruclips.net/video/4-kjkSSq95g/видео.html
Innocent until proven guilty applies to both sides, Till and Rammstein on one side and the women that make these accusations on the other side. We simply don't know what really happened. Maybe we will know the truth after the investigation, but the chances are high that we will never know the truth.
But i see very often comments of people who simply believe Till and accuse the women that they are lying and then i remember a thing that my father always said "If you want to believe, then go to church, because that's the only place where you can elevate things you believe to facts without looking like a complete idiot".
plenty, and social media and the law, believe the man is guilty first. i see HUNDREDS of comments one sided against men every single day, simply based on a few words. zero investigation. looks like things are evening out, except the accused will have the accusation over his head for the rest of his life even if innocent and cleared. that surely is not fair or right.
They are not equivalent. She’s making an accusation so she automatically has the burden of proof.
@@supremelordoftheuniverse5449 she doesn't have to prove it to you, me or any other wannabe Judge in the internet. She has to tell her story to the police and they will look if there is evidence for a crime or not and even if they don't find any evidence then that doesn't mean she is lying = both are innocent until proven guilty.
@@BerndFunken if no evidence is found it should most definitely be treated as her lying, and more than that, as false crime charge, reputation destruction, lying to justice, and she should pay for all the legal bills he had, a huge atonement and go to prison for a couple decades
@@supremelordoftheuniverse5449 That is just ridiculous. False accusations are definitely not something to take lightly but scaring actual victims from reporting what has happened or what they believe has happened isn't a solution either. It's very likely not to find solid proof in sexual assault cases, especially if reporting took a while, but it doesn't mean anyone needs to be punished beyond reasonable means. Looking into the allegations is important. Legal bills could be charged as they are in many other types of cases but prison time or any extra punishment for not finding the accused guilty is just madness. Completely different case if there would be counter evidence showing the fraud, like messages between friends proving it to be planned sabotage or publicity stunt.
Like said. innocent till proven otherwise. it does go both ways. Have to remember that people don't have access to all potential evidence that police could get to, like cameras, phone records of accused, witnesses etc. You can only get there by reporting a potential crime to be investigated and potential victims should be given a chance to try at getting justice. Without further evidence it's word against word but on the flip side it might also be that none of these prove to be helpful and you are back to the starting point with only your word left. But lack of evidence doesn't equal fraud. It just mean we don't know enough to reach conclusions. Personally I think it's as inhumane to mark Till as guilty as it is to claim that the girl is lying unless there is proof of either case.
It sucks that such cases cause harm to accused even if they aren't found guilty but issue lies within our ways of thinking and click bait/opinion driven media coverage rather than in the accuser. If people would learn to look things objectively and not insert themselves into shoes of either side the damage wouldn't be there. Other than waste of time and money but that's given till someone finds a justice system that isn't heavy on the wallets...
Holding "judgement" until enough information is in hand is never a bad idea. It means sometimes evolving stories will catch you off guard, but so will judging early. Waiting until you have "enough" information is safer.
well thats not how people in the future will react tho, itll only get more emotional and irrelevant cause at one point innocent will be hurt and accused.
I read everything she posted. She passed a drug test. She drank from the same bottle as Til. Witnesses disagree with her version of events.
There is no merit to her claims.
I'm not even a Rammstein fan.
The public prosecution in Germany is required to investigate for evidence speaking against the defendant (and pro the accuser) but with the same priority for evidence pro the defendant (and against the accuser).
the problem with Internet, it has become frontier justice. Every one is just accusing without knowing.
Glad you found Feli! Agree she did an awesome job!
Regular here and in Feli's channel, glad you pointed to her video. She does a REALLY good job. THOROUGH research. Her video on how Germany teaches the Holocaust also handles a sensitive topic very well. 2 of my favorite channels.
Yeah, 'Feli's done a marvellous propaganda-supportservice for the left-identitarian, woke and feministic infested german media-machine.
Everything You need to know. Thank You very much, 'Feli' ...
... but you're no German.
And the lesson from this is: people, do not take drinks from strangers.
Also don't mix SSRIs (antidepressants) with alcohol. Red Bull with vodka mixed with stuff like tequila and prosecco is also a bad idea as it will make you regret all of your life choices (and coincidentally is what Shelby was drinking that night - there are 4 megathreads on r/Rammstein that document this entire case in thorough details. More thorough than anything you see in English media).
You don't mix beer or cider with either wine or spirits so why mix wine with spirits either? I would only mix wine with brandy as that is grape based. You shouldn't even mix red wine and white wine in the same drinking session.
If on anti depressants you should stick only to one small glass of wine or 500mls of beer at the most. I often go to gigs sober and don't drink alcohol there as I need to be extra aware and cautious around dunk people or people high on hard drugs.
Exactly! When I chose to stop taking fluoxetine before the pandemic, because you know...I like to have drinks. Felt like shit when I would drink while i was taking it. Wasn't any fun and just got really sleepy.
In the video of Kayla and from what shelby said. They said that they didn't want anything sexual interaction with till.
And the guy who brought them there was saying none of that would happen.
Either way shelby met till "prepared" in that room.
And I also think that saying "the women shouldnt be so naive" isn't gonna help the existing problem of the culture.
15:31
Yeah, seriously. Not everyone knows that stuff. Especially younger girls just getting into metal. Every metalhead I know has a fair amount of childhood damage, which can make us trust the wrong people until we learn better. Pretty shit take from Tank on that note.
I love that everyone's approach is "women should be prepared, they know what's going to happen!" and not "men need to learn to be f___ng respectful and keep their hands to themselves!" You're in a good band. Whoop de doo. That does NOT entitle you to anyone else's body and you should stop thinking that because you can sing you get to stick your dick in random people. Men are so pathetic.
Also, some people genuinely just want to party and meet the band. I see a lot of victim blamers saying that the girls should have known what they were getting into... That makes me mad
@@nunpho If you go backstage it's because you want something from the band. It's a transaction. You don't get to be surprised when you want something from someone and they might want something from you.
@@MykeLewisMusic you sound like a predator.
something I mentioned on Feli's video: let's pretend for a second that the things alleged to be happening actually are. Mentioned are groups of 8-10 women, contacted before the show, told what to wear, all of whom being drugged. sex acts under the stage, before the show, then during the after-party... that's claiming one man is having 12 sexual encounters within FOUR hours? that right there is enough to put serious doubt in my mind, and sure maybe he's not "finishing" with all of them, but still that's assuming he's "finishing" with at least 2, one right before going on stage? and then your left with the rest of those women drugged for no reason, and an entire team of people who are all in on it, not all of him actually work for the band: claims of security being told to watch out for potential victims... that's a lot of places where that can all all go wrong, too elaborate, to many people involved, and because of that something like this would have been exposed looooong ago.
From watching Feli's video carefully and reading the messages she put on the screen, it is alleged that he picks out one or two of the girls for sex. Kind of like picking the ones he liked best out of a line up. Also, I don't think anyone said that he was doing ALL of these sex acts every show.
There are plenty of cases where multiple people are involved with enabling the sort or behaviour in the accusations here. For example, all the people around Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislane Maxwell (not that I'm comparing Till to Jeffrey epstein - it's just an example to show it's not impossible for multiple people to be involved for a long time without it becoming common knowledge). I don't think the accusations are implausible on the grounds you are stating.
I still don't know how to think about this, to be honest. The whole thing just feels kind of icky, for lack of a better word. My gut instinct when someone says that they've been assaulted by someone famous is to give them the benefit of the doubt. Power dynamics are a very real thing, and you don't have to look too hard to find celebrities who have abused them to get what they want. At the same time, we have to respect due process. The idea that someone should be considered innocent until they're proven guilty isn't just a talking point. Or at least, it shouldn't be. The whole concept of justice falls apart without it.
Can you even imagine how many people commit crimes but are never found guilty? I'm not saying this is the case here at all but I'm really tired of people acting like someone who hasn't been found guilty is definitely innocent.
@@juliab9596 And do you know how many people are innocent, yet still were punished for a crime they didn't commit? Which is worse, in your eyes -- an innocent person being punished, or a guilty one getting away with it?
@@juliab9596and how are they supposed to act then? Especially when there's little to no evidence supporting the idea thag the person accused did do the things they say they did, like bruh what you're basically saying is we should all immediately assume everyone is likely guilty of whatever they're being accused of without knowing nearly enough to form an opinion/verdict, that's a huge disrespect to the amount of people who have been punished for crimes they didn't commit
This is why we can't have nice things. Can't we all just eat pizza rolls and play with our Hot Wheels together in peace? Is that asking too much? 😂
@@darksu6947 God, you had to bring up pizza rolls while I'm too drunk to run to the store.
You wanna bet there's a whole bunch of other bands suddenly re-evaluating their own backstage activities. Not mentioning any names...🤔
Feli is an amazing resource for all things German. Glad to see the overlap between your page & hers.
Your shoutout to Feli wasn't unnoticed. Yesterday I ended up watching her video instead of yours. Thanks, I'll watch some other of your videos though, you have good content.
Great video Tank, I am waiting to see how this plays out and if no-one has come forward to the police at this point it does look better from Til's perspective than some of the news outlets are making out. I do still find the statement from the drummer (or PR / Lawyers posting as the drummer) to be at least a little damning.
On the going backstage thing, ok people know what thats about and you possibly know that the question will be asked but it does not remove the persons right to deny consent. Anyone who thinks otherwise is taking the "she was wearing a short skirt so she was asking for it" approach which is just disgusting.
The drummer has not distanced himself from Till in any way. Again, that's just how it's interpreted. He simply says that he doesn't know what Till is doing when he's not there. No one knows what someone else is doing if they are not there.
My mother went on vacation alone. I have no idea what she's doing there. But I'm sure she's not doing anything illegal. I'm not distancing myself from my mother. And that's exactly what Schneider said. That's it.
@@TomTomson81 He literally said that he distances himself from Till's parties, though?
@@Scheater1337es, because they are not present at these parties. He also said that he was sure that there was nothing illegal going on.
All he is saying is that he doesn't like such parties. He distances himself from the parties and not from Till. When I distance myself from someone, I don't defend them.
@@TomTomson81 Well, to be precise, he wrote that Till distanced himself from the band in recent years. So if you want to argue about semantics here, I guess I can give you that point... I don't think it makes any difference in this context, though. Either way, there is a bigger distance between them and Till now than before.
@@TomTomson81 "It is also important to us that Till’s parties are not confused with our official after-show parties.Till has distanced himself from us in recent years and created his own bubble, with their own people, their own parties, their own projects."
That's not an interpretation. That's a direct quote from his statement.
Thank you so much for pinning it down that NO MATTER where you go - even if it says "this is a sex party!!!" on the door - you can ALWAYS say no.
"Why do women put themselves in danger" is a bullshit quesion. "Why do dangerous places exist and who are enabling them" is what we should be asking.
dangerous places exist because people are dangerous lol. people go there, even places where theres drugs and alcohol because they dont think it will happen to them. that is human mentality. the old preach to the young on where to go, where not to go and every thing else about life but in the end the person makes their own choice.
@@GotoMaki4Micah that was my entire point, thank you though
If I hear of a middle aged person inviting my 20 year old son or daughter to a backstage party then I already instinctively want to beat that person but if my child honestly believes this could be a safe thing to do then I have failed as a father.
If it says “this is a sex party” and my child thinks it will definitely be safe I have failed.
If my child is invited to any party by total strangers and thinks it could be a safe thing to do then I have failed. I have failed miserably.
I work in Community support and there is a law about the dignity of risk, there are laws about adult rights and consent. But every time a 18+ year old kid goes out, falls in love or goes to ANY party it is possibly dangerous and if they do not know that then their mother and father, their school, their friends and their community has failed them and they are as badly at risk out in the world as new born lamb.
@@MrMightyZ you always have to warn them about the possible risks yes, because this is the world we live in, but there is no way you or your child are entirely responsible if someone else decides to do foul things. People want and should have fun and curiosity towards anything in life, it will still be the rapist's fault if rape is committed, it will still be the murderer's fault if murder is committed. Like, here's the thing, I just got attacked on the street yesterday, in broad daylight. My father didn't fail me. He'd told me this would happen. But my attacker's father hadn't brought him up not to be an asshole. HIS father failed him. You know what I mean?
Of course you gotta be careful but I can only repeat myself, backstages shouldn't be dangerous, not even sex parties should be dangerous, we need to stop bad people, not activities that can be perfectly fine if sober, consensual adults attend them
Right. Even if a pedestrian walks right into the middle of the road in front of your car, you still have an obligation to try and slam the brakes as long as it will not create more danger.
If you're a horny band member and you invited women to your sex party, even if they 100% knew it was a sex party, _IF THEY SAY NO, YOU LET THEM GO._ The only thing in danger if you don't have sex with them is your pride, which is nowhere near worth destroying a woman's life over.
Been watching Feli for years, really pleased you've credited and linked to her. Classy move fella, good karma points for you. 😊
Yeah, cute Feli jumping on the bandwagon ...
@@Vorname_Nachnahme eh? She's made a very good video to explain much of the German reporting to non German speakers. She's performing a service to her audience, no need to be a dick about it.
@@TheChodax "[...] much of the german reporting [...]"
... translates directly to 'Feli's done a marvellous propaganda-supportservice for the left-identitarian, woke and feministic infested german media-machine.
Everything You need to know ...
Another solid video Tank 👍
Can highly recomed Filie's video and her channel in general I Have been a subscribed for ages now
Btw quick correction here. Several news outlet (quite serious ones comparable to NYT , WP etc ) have spoken with women that accuss Till of several things. They could confirm that the women didn't know each other and where not at the same shows . The claims are quite strong because up to 20 of these women they spoke to , shared some details that were not public knowledge.
Copycat effect, anyone talking to the tabloid media rather than the police are usually just looking for one thing - well, maybe two
nothing is proven not even any alleged victims have filed charges charges came from third parties
@@YBM2007 innocent until proven guilty for anyone including these women.
@@juliab9596 stop drinking
Cool that you're giving a shoutout to Feli, I saw her video before I saw yours.
hey Tank i like the way you argue and bring up the facts without talking into nonsense. Keep it up!
I have a question about this topic, about the music industry.
Could a band member of Rammstein just say they do not keep on playing the tour, because of everything that happend? Do they have to pay a fine?
Who loses money if Till would be arrested, if the tour has to be canceld? Could he be responsible for that?
Would be interesting to know how these things work behind the scenes.
All depends on how their business as a band is set up.
Why should they stop the tour? Literally no one cares. Tickets given back per concert are only in the dubble digits (normal for concerts this size). The only people making this a big thing are some angry feminists that believe every accusation without a doubt.
Unless that band member fell very ill on tour or had a family emergency otherwise they would have to keep playing those concerts.
@@TheLuftpolsterfolie When dozens of women come forward with very similar stories about what Till did to them, then yes, they should be believed.
But people like you are why feminists are angry. What a nice world we are living in, in which men and their cronies rally around this millionaire rockstar who can afford high-powered attorneys, to defend this poor man from average women who are reporting being harrassed, assaulted and pressured and who are being insulted by people like you in comment sections like these.
You're appropriately named. You're just full of air but otherwise empty.
@@TheLuftpolsterfolieNobody suggested they stop. All that was asked was a simple question of what would happen if they did.
Is it ethically to tell a bad story about another person, without any proof?
There is a german sentence "Wash me, but don't make me wet", which always comes to my mind, when people dress up and visit special events (men as well as women) and than later say: "I didn't want what happened there."
I'm assuming that what the statement refers to as a cease and desist letter is actually an "Unterlassungserklärung", which is a signed declaration by the desisting party that they will comply with the terms laid out in it. So it is really issued by the receiver of the cease and desist letter - the letter usually contains a pre-formulated declaration for the receiver to sign, but it is their decision whether to do so or to modify it or even draft their own. Of course, whether that is acceptable to the letter's sender is another question.
Quite apart from the Lindemann legal issue and what comes out of it:
It would be a good thing to discuss all this backstage/groupie stuff in general and for every artist/band. So many insiders, techs, etc. have come out and said, this is how the industry is. Girls are casted, artists misuse their power over fans, etc. It would be a good thing if artists went public to say: "We want people to feel save at our concerts, we do not want to pressure anyone into doing something, etc. and this are our means/processes we implemented/will implement to make sure of it..."
The best time to do something like this would have been years ago. The second best time would be now, that people are aware, before the next topic comes around the corner.
Is it too much to expect parents to teach their kids about the dangers of the world these days? For hundreds of years we had cautionary tales (otherwise known as fables/ fairy tales) in addition, as a teaching aid. Somehow in the current year it's everyone else's responsibility to coddle witless individuals. I refuse.
@@KennaDeMerkedo Is it too much to expect parents to teach their kids not to be assholes these days? To raise them to be adults who do not hurt, betray and abuse other people?
The German police are doing the right thing by continuing the investigation. These are serious claims that need to be investigated fully.
EDIT: I'm waiting for Till Lindemann's ukulele apology video
You are right, but also expect a legal blowback if the allegations are proven false
You're right, just because you're at a backstage aftershow party shouldn't mean anything goes. But by her own statement, it's not that way. Till asked her, she said no, he left. That alone clearly differentiates it from the "she shouldn't have been wearing that" type of argument. It's a Rammstein aftershow party. It's rough and rowdy and things happen there. Many women who go there end up having sex with bandmembers. But that's why they go there. Let's not pretend that's not also a factor here. And still, anyone at those parties is free to get up and leave at any point in time. Nobody stops you. There's a security guy who comes up to you and asks if you're leaving and if you say yes, he shows you out (Because if you don't know your way around the backstage area, there's a decent chance you'll get lost at some of those arenas).
Here’s what’s troubling though. According to the allegations, there are two events constituting or presented as “after parties.”
One, a formal event where invitees/attendees included the rich and famous, public celebrities with a DJ, music and dancing etc.
Then there was a separate “party” where only females were in attendance. Females carefully selected by the band’s representative. This is a source of problems.
The women/girls making allegations seem to point up the fact that they were never given entree into the “main” party but rather were ushered into a secluded room away from any post concert festivities.
The next level of seriousness involves use of drugs to incapacitate. Hard to prove given many of these drugs don’t remain in the body or are not easily detectable.
My guess is the authorities have evidence the girls were “groomed” for something.
At the least being coerced and cajoled into some kind of sex with Lindemann.
Likely communications between the bands representatives and the girls are easily discovered/corroborated. That most reports mention drugs indicates “coerced” and “cajoled” may have risen in seriousness to “forced.”
So it is best to wait for the police report and/or action.
@@JohnLnyc It's not really a secret that Till has his own afterparties. It's also common knowledge among fans that they effectively resemble an Orgy and have done so for decades.
All of this goes to say that if you're getting invited to Till Lindemann's afterparty, you KNOW what you're getting invited to. (the promoters also invite you explicidly to his party and NOT the bands party) And even keeping that in mind, by her own admission when she said no, he backed off. No coersion, no cajoling and no force. I'm not sure how much safer it's supposed to get.
However, she passed out and that's fair enough as a reason to worry. That doesn't mean that drugs were involved though. Given that no evidence, neither physical nor toxicologically, was found, there's a high chance she passed out from a combination of exhaustion, dehydration, heat and/or alcohol. And that's rather common at these types of event, be it during the concert or an afterparty.
So far, all we know is that she passed out at that party, has been crying wolf ever since and is continuing to do so, even with every test so far coming in with either negative results or no results whatsoever. There isn't a single piece of evidence that supports her being assaulted, forced, drugged or raped. Yet Till's career, reputation, public image and future remain in the public crosshairs because he parties hard?
Drug use in general is concerning but that's not an issue exclusive to his parties, or Rammstein in general. It's an industry-wide problem and needs to be adressed as such. There's an not insignificant number of people who arrive at these kinds of concerts high as a kite and dealers make a fortune in the crowds.
@@timokampwerth1996 First, the initial complainant has openly stated she was not raped. Maybe Till’s parties were common knowledge among some fans. It seems to me many were not aware of the “orgy” aspect. Obviously, any evidence women were “drugged” so they could be taken advantage of erases the defense they knew what they were getting into or were aware of what was really going on.
And we really have no idea of how many have come forward. Apparently these complaints are anonymous, the names only known by prosecutors. Use of drugs adds to this.
My guess is there are enough people involved with the band and production who know what was going on, good or bad. They will all likely be interviewed.
Objectively the best take. Draw whatever moral conclusions you want from this case.
Nice new haircut. That's the only good thing I can say about this topic. Agree on the whole split between legal and moral questions here. It's complicated.
I know this is off topic but I've never seen Tank without his hat/cap. 😂 It's freaking me out it's like a glitch in the matrix or something haha. 🤣 I haven't been subbed/around for long so that's probably why but I love all the content. ❤
It nearly happened to my friend and me in 2002 on their Mutter tour.
As we were heading into Manchester Apollo, a German guy asked if we wanted to go to the after party. We were both 16 at the time. I turned to find a guy who I worked with and gave us a lift to the gig (a big ginger Brummie, the complete opposite of what I look like), and the German exclaimed 'oh, you're with parents!' and scuttled off.
I wouldn't have gone anyway, and to this day I don't know if it was a random guy chancing his luck or if he was with Rammstein, but after seeing these reports it makes me wonder if it was the latter.
They would jave all been in their 30s at the time. That's a huge age difference between that and 16 especially at that age.
@@lemsip207 it happens. I had an ex who was drugged and raped while on vacation by a grown ass adult when she was like 15.
A man of integrity, good for you Tank!
Very reflected and honest of you to criticize your own video, but concerning the Schneider statement I had similar feelings when I read the German original. Keep on rocking.
The concept of "innocent until proven guilty" applies to the women coming forward as well. A lot of people like to defend alleged perpetrators by saying basically "innocent until proven guilty, and all these hos are liars" instead of reserving judgement for everyone involved.
From a legal standpoint. Content creators walk a very thin line when weighing in on such explosive topics prematurely. Liability insurance and good legal counsel can be instrumental in providing guidelines for creators to follow when posting content. Eliminating or at least mitigating possible legal action after the fact.
Said it since it came out Till did nothing wrong. Justice was served. When the main accused person puts "the person that was drugged at a Rammstein concert" in her bio I knew it was BS
It's a very difficult situation. Even if Till didn't do anything his reputation has been harmed. Likewise with Shelby. Something may have happened just not in the way presented. Without either of them coming forward and making an admission, we may never know. I would ask everyone be kind and gracious to both and let them get on with their lives.
Its insane how easily and quickly people are to believe anyone with nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Till is innocent...as a german female fan since 20 years i felt that he is very quiet and auf.. i was on 5 Rammstein shows and hes a very good actor in stage not behind ❤
Ive never heard from Kayla shyx cause i dont believe in influencers...😅😅😂
Shout out for Feli! Cool!
Danke für das Video.
I’ve read a bunch of articles yet. And i never heard anything that sounded like a crime committed. From Kayla’s tellings the gist was “i felt uncomfortable and asked to leave, was asked if sure, answered yes. Went home.” Then nothing substantial ever came up since.
Drugging would certainly be a crime, if it occurred.
@@michaelinners5421 Uhm sure but beside “i saw some that looked like they were on drugs”. i haven’t heard any claim of someone actually being drugged, and not counting the “i felt terrible the next day after partying” reports.
Offering girls money for a modelling gig then paying them with drinks and sex advances, could be several crimes there.
Feli from Germany, formerly German Girl in America, is super dope. Well informed and not afraid of touchy subjects.
I personally believe that her breakdown, point by point, is as accurate as any take on the subject can be.
I'm not sure what Christoph means by "recent years" when referring to Till separating himself from the rest of the band.
I met some of the guys (not at a gig) back in 2012. I asked where the 'missing' two were - one had gone out to lunch with his partner who was travelling with him and Till?
"Oh he's not with us. Not staying in our hotel. He makes his own arrangements. I think he's still in London and flying up tomorrow" was the reply.
My opinion is that I'm letting this play out and if there is any sibstance that the Police will look into it.
Taking to the media might just result in a repeat of last years big court case in the US where one person choose to write an opinion piece on these type of accusations.
The worst part about this whole situation for me is that no matter how this ends, it sucks. Either he's found guilty and the band is ruined and their music is forever tarnished, or he's found not guilty and people (especially women) will more often be accused of lying when they come forward with abuse allegations.
What I hope happened is that nothing bad or illegal happened to her, she simply passed out as a result of dehydration or being too tired / drunk, the bruises were accidents from bonking into people at the concert / party while dancing, and when she woke up she got scared and assumed / concluded the worst and decided to speak out, while truly and honestly believing that "worst" is what happened.
Only problem with that statement as a outcome i see is that as far as i have understood. Lynn never seek medical attention but instead told the story online essentially without the proof. Thats something which should not be taken as fact in face value. Instead person in question should be directed to medical help or police. That is the only correct way.
I dont mean to say that women should not be taken seriously, they absolutely should. But they should be directed to medical attention and police, nothing else.
You need that evidence to the court.
Its pretty clear to me that Till is a rapist. Anyone using common sense with a knowledge of the band should know that he is a sexual deviant and a dangerous one at that. You really want to wait for God knows how long for the court case to tell you how to think? Nah, Till’s mentally deranged. His lyrics and behavior and videos make that ABUNDANTLY clear.
same thing happened to kwite.
@@Kuutti_original I find it suspicious that Lynn changed her stance from direct accusation to "I never accused Till". She must have understood that her Twitter profile saying "I was spiked by Rammstein" is a direct accusation. Then she changed it to milder "Spiked at Rammstein gig".
Lynn has said she takes mood stabilizer medication which, when mixed with alcohol cause blackouts. She has been filmed jumping around and thrashing on the fence divider near the stage.
I do find it suspicious and beyond that none of the suspects have actually gone to the authorities but rather to the media.
Dont know who said it in twitch chat. But they had to go btmy the pictures right? Unless Shelby was tested and confirmed injured right after the aliged event.
@(7:20) The German word used can mean anything from 'notification', 'advertisement' to 'accusation'. I assume this was a Google translation.
@(17:xx) 'cease and desist': since the person is actively making the declaration, proposed and demanded by the lawyers, 'issue' - while probably not being the standard form used in English - seems a better choice than 'accept'.
I hate these days, everyone is so over reactionary and even when they're proven wrong they still double down.
I remember in the 90's, i was at a Fear Factory and Biohazard gig in the Midlands UK. And girls were trying to go backstage. I even saw one guy who was waiting for his girlfriend to come out of the backstage area. He knew what was going on. It was pretty sad
Dino Cazares is a legendary pussy-hound.
I agree, when you go back stage or someone from the band, through a friend sends you a shirt/pass you know the deal. I said no thanks. I went home by myself with a shirt I bought. I won't say what band but they are all gross. Not my type.
I will never understand why people waste their time with women like that. 🤷
@@jerrimenard3092 I'm against that "they are all the same" thinking. "Backstage" happens everywhere, not only in the music industry, some abuse their position/charisma/fame and some don't. Everywhere. Even in private enviroments .
@@WannabeShady90you sound like an incel
Hi, on this subject I also recommend the videos of „Colonel Kurtz“ (a young woman)! Greetings from Munich, Germany!
yes . feli,s video is great
No. It's woke shit.
I know it's random and off topic, but I really appreciate you're at least trying to pronounce foreign words correct way (you once mentioned you've been learning German, right?). As an European, it's my pet peeve hearing American youtubers who don't give a damn about foreign languages, saying whatever and then they're like "I hope I said it right". No Mister, you didn't 😂
Relax Mister Sister
If the general attitude from the public is that legal findings and the opinions of law enforcement and legal entities DONT matter just because, then I don’t want to participate in society.
Let's go!!!
I was a few days late watching your first video on this subject, and watched Feli's video right after it. You already had the pinned comment that indicated the update from Till's lawyers was right after you recorded the video, so even if I had any doubt if you had missed something, you pretty much cleared that up, but I agree that Feli's video was absolutely great to get some further insights that you don't get if you don't follow the German media.
Cases like this are so complex, and yes, in general I do also believe in innocent until proven guilty. but when it comes to things like this, the proof is nearly impossible, because it is always going to be the word of one person against the other. unless there is either direct DNA evidence that confirms guilt, or there are witnesses, and even then, there is the need to prove there was no consent, and this is something we have seen here in Ireland with the rugby rape trial, where there was just not enough prove that there was no consent, and that is a really big problem for victims of such crimes, because there is just no way to prove that. And if you put yourself in the position of a father whose daughter comes home and tells this story, would you really want to say, "Come on girl, the judge has said that it can't be proven, so just let it go"? No doubt every father would want the justice system to change for this, but then there still are the cases where people falsely accuse someone, and because of them, it isn't really possible to remove the absolute necessity to say someone is innocent until proven guilty.
It really isn't easy to come up with a solution for this that provides justice to victims, but prevents people being punished for a crime they didn't commit