The Truth About Live Nation/Ticketmaster's Power
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- Опубликовано: 9 июн 2024
- In the past decade, Live Nation Entertainment has become an industry behemoth that should have never gotten as much power as they have. In part due to Taylor Swift, the Justice Department is now investigating the company, and we take a look at their practices, how they abuse their position in the music industry, and try and figure out why M. Shadows from Avenged Sevenfold seems to be justifying everything they're doing.
00:00 Intro
00:42 Former Labor Secretary's Take On Live Nation
03:20 Taylor Swift's Take / The Live Nation Monopoly
09:51 M. Shadows' Tweets About Ticketmaster
20:57 Outro
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This is why I make it a point to go to and support shows at venues that do their own ticket-selling through their own personal website. They're the ones who deserve it
Yep and I have bought T-Shirts from a concert tour I went to after the tour is over on bands web sites for less than half of what they sold for at the show.
Those websites could be run by Live Nation too lol
@Laz Austin they absolutely could, you're right, but I've checked. The ones I frequent operate independently
what ...? a venue that actually has a BOX OFFICE...? and sells their own tickets ...? WHERE ...?
The only issue is you cannot book a show in almost any large venue without Ticketmaster. It’s not the bands fault.
So glad I grew up in an era when you could get up early the day tickets went on sale, stand in line at Sears, and know that you'd get a good seat for your efforts. Hell , the first few years I attended concerts, ticket prices never even exceeded $10. Today, you'll pay three times that much just for "convenience fees." Monopolies and greed have virtually ruined the concert-going experience, though smaller club shows are still fun to attend.
Man, I was just talking to my dad about standing in line for tickets specifically at Sears. Hahaha
Remember those days, get tickets and some craftsman tools too🤣
I remember standing in line at a Simon Mall booth and buying tickets without the fees, obviously pre 2010.
I feel like we couldn’t make it change either
Same!
I just don’t go to concerts anymore. I can’t justify the cost these days.
Most concerts are mediocre anyway.
@@zeenuf00you are seeing the wrong ands.
@@mikepalmer2219issue with yes I know I’m responding to a year old post if I go to concerts I always wait to the last minute or sit far back which I’m fine with cause I’m short not like I was gonna see anyways but most shows are heavily auto tune now and days or there’s a bunch of playback or stems being used when or where they should more so making it a hybrid of studio and live when I feel if a person is whatever x amount of dollars to see whom ever live it’s being advertised as a live show then it should be a full on live show I won’t spend more then $150 on a concert ticket and even that’s pricy for me todays concerts aren’t worth the overpriced value of what they are and eventually sure right now everyone is making a profit but eventually it’ll all crash down and when it does crash down it’ll crash down hard
I remember when Red Hot Chili Peppers scheduled a concert in their home town and decided to set ticket prices at $12 to show appreciation for their fans from their early days. Ticketmaster decided the price was too low and increased their fees for that concert. I think their fees were about $18 bringing the price to $30 which was close to standard costs for tickets at the time.
I think one of the biggest problems is when they release all the tickets for whole entire tour on the same day
I remember when Pearl Jam did this in the 90's and glad Swift is bringing the attention back. I'm not one for big shows, a 1,000 seat venue that's independently owned with sticky floors and stale beer is my scene, but that's not for most people and it sucks seeing them getting screwed for years. I hope the monopoly is broken up or bands pool together and say fuck it, we'll sell directly. Are concert promoters even needed in this day and age? 50 years ago they would pull a gun on a performer and refuse to pay them, that doesn't fly anymore so now they're robbing the fans legally.
Yeah, they really contribute rather little value at this point.
If you can FIND an independently owned venue. All the venues around me, even the smaller ones like The Stone Pony, are owned by corporations.
Live nation even owns many small venues here in Northern California. Ace of Spades is about 1000-1200 and a great venue but owned/controlled by LN.
Bands can't "decide" to do a damthing about tickets/sales...other than refuse to tour, and touring is really the only way to make money now that records aren't the revenue. Live Nation owns the venues. I don't think popular bands can even decide on which venues to play.. thats all contractual between labels and booking agents/venues.. and labels want a good relationship with LN... if they want to be in business
Apparently what most people don't understand is,the consumer has the greatest power of all, the power of his wallet!
Stop supporting these predatory practices, until the money loss for those companies becomes so painful, that there either going to change their ways, or go the way of the Dodo.
And be replaced by,hopefully, something better.
And sometimes a company needs to go to the dodo so a market for something better can evolve.
Thats part of the reason against monopoly so the company needs to adapt to stay relevant in the market.
Easier said than done when you consider just how large of a stranglehold they have. It’s akin to asking people to just stop seeing tons of their favorite bands, hoping that everybody else follows suit, so that they eventually rid live nation from owning the ticket platforms and venues and the like. It’s not the practical ask to just boycott them that it was to do so in a prior time.
How does one truly boycott a company that promotes the tours, sells the tickets, owns the venues and runs the merch? And even if you thought you were dodging them they have so many other entities that aren’t transparent you may still be supporting them anyways. That’s why in some instances when the government can step in and block transactions that will create monopolies to this extreme they need to actually block them rather than allowing them through and then just telling them not to participate in their abusive behavior, especially when the companies do it anyways and face no consequences. To rid a market of something as entrenched in every aspect of the industry like a live nation you’d genuinely have to have the vast bulk of bigger name artists refuse to work with them and fsns willing to pass on ever seeing their favorite artists which just isn’t realistic to ever see unfortunately.
That’s naive. This is the problem with a monopoly, you can’t just choose to not use 80% of the only game in town. And it also requires solidarity from all of the public in order for them to actually feel the pinch, which won’t happen, meaning nothing will change. The only thing that can do anything about this is regulation. That is the definition of what is wrong with a monopoly, because they also have the power to block their own regulation. You’re suggesting free market solutions to what we just all agreed is not a free market.
The shoddy service that Ticketmaster are providing alongside the cost is frankly ludicrous. I missed out on my first NIN tour SINCE THE 90s because the basket was clearing every time I hit the button to pay, then threw me back in the queue to start all over again. We've also been talking about how we've been priced out of bands I've been seeing live for over 20 years. It doesn't just sour me over going to live gigs, but it sours me to the bands.
Dude the NIN ticket debacle was so crazy that they actually axed online sales in SF and made them box office only for the first few weeks or something like that, and they were still like 110 a pop. I saw NIN with fucking Soundgarden for like 26 bucks in 2014. Where the fuck did this price come from? Most would dismiss me and simply say "Inflation bruh get over it" but the way capitalism has spread like cancer in the alternative music realm really goes against everything that kind of music stands (or did stand) for. Especially the misfits reunion. No way a fucking punk band that played basements for 3 dollar covers should be in a stadium with 200 dollar nosebleeds and 1,000 dollar pit tickets. I love alot of these bands but I've pretty much given up on seeing them ever again and put my focus on the underground bands that deserve my support. The fact there's not even real ticket stubs as a consolation prize just adds insult to injury
Ticketmaster has to STOP selling tickets through cell phones! Many people DON'T have them. I missed Iron Maiden recently because Ticketmaster DIDN'T sell PHYSICAL TICKETS! I mean, WTF? No tickets by mail? No downloadable, printable tickets? Thanks a lot Ticketmaster! Thanks a lot, Iron Maiden! Many people are NOT going to get to see their favorite bands/musicians because of this! WE NEED PHYSICAL TICKETS, NOT CELL PHONE TICKETS!
I've been a fan of A7X since college (2003-2004), never been to a concert as I can't afford it; I have every album up to the stage either hard or soft copy. Chevelle even longer, and when they went to the NorVa still couldn't afford it, but have their albums and some merch. Hell, I've paid out the nose for imports of non-US releases of some albums (though actually should I admit that?). I call bs to any artist saying that if someone is really a fan they'll pony up the cost of a ticket, maybe there are folks out there willing to go into debt, but a second mortgage isn't a solution in my mind to be a fan. Period. Bands should be paid for their art and their efforts, but trying to exhort people just don't gibe.
Maybe I've missed the point, ticket sales always seemed like a con having been located by some fairly large east coast US venues, and I can't imagine anything good will come out of this, even though it's long overdue
You forgot to mention that Ticketmaster now gets a cut of the scalping with their resale portion of the site.
Yup! It's bullshit. Break up the monopoly
Yup. “Brokers” usually get first shot at tickets when they go on sale, and we all know who these brokers really are…
Owning a reseller site, is s huge conflict of interest, because they make more profit if the tickets are purchased by scalpers than when they are purchased by genuine fans that will keep the tickets and go to the show.
Raising the price of your Resale tickets shouldn’t be allowed. I’ve seen hundreds more a ticket for bands who aren’t ginormous. Especially when blink-182’s tour started this year.
I stopped going to concerts 20 years ago. Ticketmaster charge was double what the actual ticket was. Uh, no.
Plus since everyone just stood there holding up their phones ruining the show for everyone else.
Showing my age, I've seen Zeppelin live ($8.50 per ticket), Allman Bros, Bowie multiple times, Stones, early Journey in the early 80's, and dozens more. We used to drive to Detroit every weekend in the summer. Back in those early days tickets were at most 15 dollars. Peter Frampton, Dave Mason, and Yes (before Frampton got famous), the ticket was $16 dollars. Tom Petty at Red Rocks in 1983 was under $20 bucks.... Even adjusted for inflation, as broke kids, we didn't hesitate to jump in the parent's cars and drive two hours to see a show, why? Because, even back then, we could afford 8 bucks for a ticket.
Fast forward to Napster, the sharing law suits, the race to set up streaming. Pandora came out, Spotify, and a dozen more. I knew back then, this was going to completely fuck concert ticket prices... Never again was an artist like Petty ever going to sell 95 million records/CD's. They were going to get screwed on streaming royalties, and their only recourse was going to be concert ticket revenue... Ticket prices have gone up as fast as streaming companies developed, and here we are today completely out of control
I think John Oliver had this subject about ticketmaster a few years ago . Luckily here I Germany we have a few other ticket services like eventim. It it great that you talk about it. I hate that regular fans like us have so much trouble to get fair priced tickets. Can't wait to see this
Yeah, eventim. They're not entirely spotless in that respect either. They had to be ruled against by the Federal Court of Justice to stop charging fees for Print@Home tickets. Also, a few years ago the Federal Cartel Office intervened to prevent eventim from assuming a dominating market position. But at least there is competition in that market, not very much, but still.
Bottom line is, as long as people put up with their crap and outrageously expensive fees and ticket prices they will continue. You get what you put up with. If folks quit paying the exorbitant prices this will change.
If they are the only game in town, then there is never going to be a situation where enough people get on the same page to not pay. This can’t be left down to just consumers acting with their feet. When you have monopolies like this is gone past choosing to buy or not buy something. You need legislation.
Another awesome video! It looks now that only the super rich will be able to attend highly popular shows. I missed the days when tickets were sold at local music stores (at least in the metal scene) for $10 to $15 (with no extra fees). Subscribed... BTW
🤘🤘🤘
I'm an old school Metal Head and that was how I bought most of my tickets to see bands. I live in MN and one of the best places to see Metal groups back in the day was First Ave in Minneapolis. You could just go there when they opened at night and buy tickets for a show that was just announced for a few months from then. I saw WASP, Metallica and Armoured Saint on the same bill for $6.50 back in the early 80's.
As a touring professional I love to hear your insights. There are things I see everyday that I really don’t get to speak on publicly. Thanks as always for sharing your thoughts and opinions!!!
Much love, man!
Thank you Tank for posting this on RUclips. I worked for Live Nation for 7 yrs, not in any financial capacity though. It’s a shame where the industry is going and it’s only a matter of time before only the rich will be able to go to shows. Unless there is a MASSIVE revolt by a very large majority of people deciding to boycott live music, this trend will continue.
I haven't been a touring musician or roadie but I spent 25 years booking acts, working with venues and doing promotions. I have never seen ticket issues like we are seeing right now and I blame it squarely on Ticketmaster and those that allow such a monopoly to exist and thrive. Personally I have just stopped going to concerts unless I can buy tickets directly from the venue or the artist and I try not to buy merch unless it's being sold by the artist. Musicians get screwed enough as it is and the only way to stop this madness is to just stop paying the prices and making fat cats fatter.
This was what Marko was referring to in his Nightwish retirement open letter. Specifically how Live Nation Entertainment has large ownership from individuals from countries that would chop your head off if you tried to play that same music they get rich off of in their country. The irony.
Gotta say that was Marko's rant about stuff and not the main reason he left NW. His mental health was the main reason.
@@lekalla Agreed, not the main reason.. but was part of the sum that led to his leaving. Think of it this way, effort vs reward. The tipping point is different for everyone, but for him his mental well being was worth more than the reward. Which is a direct representation of the lop sided control that very few entities hold for most of the western world touring industry. He pretty much all but calls out Live Nation Entertainment by name in that letter.
@@pro-v7500 Yeah he just spitted out stuff and i'm glad he did.
@@lekalla Are people still buying that mental health ADHD bullshit excuse?
The US needs to do something to restrict scalping. I follow several Japanese bands, so keep up with ticket buying policies there. In preparing for the 2020 Olympics, they passed laws that make scalping tickets incredibly difficult, including making it illegal to sell the ticket for more than the list price.
Things that could be touch in this video:
A) Marco Hietala and the letter why he departed Nightwish.
B) And also the fact that Saudi Arabia is owning a part of the companies.
C) Should jornalist accept free tickets when there is NO free press in Saudi Arabia ?
So many things that could be touched on. Rammstein are another conversation point - more bands need to take their FU approach to dealing with the corporate machine.
I was at a warped tour in St Louis when all the bands got all pissed off bc the venue and promotors demanded such a large cut off merch sales that they would have had to sell shirts for $50 to make a profit so many bands simply threw all their merch into the crowd for free. I can't remember if that was the year they were at Buder Park or if that happened the year before at the amphitheater in St. Louis so they switched to Buder Park the next year but it was pretty rad.
Yeah, it was at The UMB bank pavilion where it happened and the next year or two they held it in Buder Park as a result.
That sounds incredible
ah yes Riotport the venue I somehow know better than Pop's in Sauget
I worked at a dirtbike race in a stadium venue once that was so authoritarian about their huge cut, they audited our inventory before and after the event. I don't understand why they think they get a single percent, especially when a vendor fee was paid.
I do understand M Shadows' argument in a coldly logical way. "If people are willing to pay 5x face value for the ticket, why should scalpers get that money instead of us?" It makes sense. The problem is that it completely blocks out "normal" fans from ever having the opportunity to pay face value in the first place. It's a really pessimistic outlook, if you think about it. "The fans are going to get fucked no matter what we do, so we might as well get paid."
Well it's only pessimistic if that's where it stops. If he does things to help the fans afterwards, he's not only making the best out of a bad situation, but then still helping where he can
Hes lost sight of where they came from as a basement hardcore band
@@Shredxcam22 yep, honestly I think towards the end there The Rev was the only one keeping M. Shadows' mouth in check cuz after Nightmare their songs got too "inspired" by M. Shadows' real life and views
It also completely ignores the fact that the ceiling on ticket prices is unknown. So selling it for 5x the price doesn't necessarily stop scalpers from buying them and selling them for 10x the price. Which is absolutely happening.
@@jleighwolfe Very good point.
I used to work for Ticketmaster as a customer service agent and it was an absolute shitshow. Customers were often left out of pocket through no fault of their own because of stupid policies that the company basically made to catch customers out.Horrible company.
Depending on the venue, I used to get up early on the day of tickets going on sale, get on a train and queue at the box office of the venue. I still have some of those tickets from the early 1980's. I've almost stopped trying to buy tickets for big bands now, I go for the smaller bands at smaller venues. Dynamic pricing has almost made it financially impossible for a family of 3 to go to a concert. I first saw Bruce Springsteen in 1985, this latest tour is the first one I won't be going to. Queen, I first saw with Freddie in 1982, may, health permitting, do a farewell tour next year, I'm not expecting to go. It seems that now most tickets are digital, would it not be simple enough to only allow resale at face value via the original seller ? That would thin out a lot of the scalpers. After all, you can pay extra for a paper ticket which will be delivered after the date of the concert.
Thank you for bringing this to RUclips so I don't have to look for it on your latest Twitch streams 😉
Pearl jam was at war with ticketmaster for years to the point you couldn't see them and they essentially had to give up.
Because of Ticketmaster and Live Nation, most of the shows I see are in smaller, 2k cap and under venues, I'm simply not willing to pay the TM/LN tax. Like all prices, it's supply and demand, as long as people are willing to pay extortionate prices, nothing will change. And don't think for a moment that the government will reign in and regulate these companies as long as legalized bribery is a thing in US politics.
Excited to hear from you on this!
Man, we’re going down a rabbit hole. This is just the first discussion of many. Haha
Swift is not the hero she thinks she is. From what I understand, she chose to use dynamic pricing. As a result, tickets in her VIP section are going for huge amounts of money. $22K is the price I heard. Bruce Springsteen tickets in the US? $5K. In Italy? $1.5K. They're all repulsive...the artists, and Live Nation.
Oh, let’s be real, she’s not a hero. She just happens to be in a situation where calling out an entity like Live Nation won’t crush her career, as it would for a lot of other smaller artists. She not only using dynamic pricing, but also does the “multiple versions of an album” trick cause she knows her fans will buy anything she puts out.
There was no dynamic pricing.
I’m so tired of paying the outrageous fees that come with all live entertainment. I attend alot of concerts every year and fees have gotten out of control. It seems like the fees are about 25% if the tickets price or more. If you want to see a show you gave no other option. Time for a federal investigation into these practices.
I had issues buying tickets for the AFI Sing the Sorrow show. Every time I chose tickets they were marked as sold. When I went back to choose different tickets the ones I had just tried to buy were up for sale via verified resellers for 3x more.
Also, to point out, M. Shadow states that if folks pay thousands for tickets from scalpers, then maybe the band should simply charge that much. Ticketmaster has done nothing to prevent or reduce scalping and bot purchasing, so Ticketmaster should do something to help solve that problem.
Ticketmaster won't do anything because they take a % of the resell price when done through their system. Crazy reselling prices benefits them.
TM no doubt saves those front row seats for scalper reseller sites to buy and get a cut of the jacked up prices
I just want to say I´m loving your content, Tank. Really glad about the direction this channel took.
When I left the flash and trash of rock and roll I was mortified to find that Live Nation has their claws into most of the theatrical Broadway tours.............my load ins go to shit when the Live Nations rep shows up.
I bought tickets to a show not long ago, turned out I was going to be moving and couldn't go. When I went to sell the tickets, I wanted to resell at ticket price I paid, and whatever I'd eat the fees, because I hoped somebody that wanted to go could pay a reasonable price. Ticketmaster FORCED me to sell them WAY higher than I paid. Garbage.
Gross
The quote that ruined the world. "Greed, for the lack of a better word....is good"-Gordon Gekko
As a kpop fan as well, we had been begging for something to be done about this. Kpop tickets are already pricey and usually about 70-80% most of the venues sell really fast and those tickets are taken by scalpers. There is proof of that where you see how fast they are gone and even nosebleed seats are triple the price. It got to the point where some of the agencies for these groups made like a multiple layer fan membership to help fans have faster/easier access to tickets. Something needs to be done cause ticketmaster/LN is just out of control.
I remember being a teenager back in the late 70s when concert tickets were printed and distributed to various ticket outlets around town (Pittsburgh, PA.). These were usually record stores but there were odd ticket booth locations here and there. Like on the third floor of the Kaufmann's department store downtown tucked away in the corner of the lingerie department. Tickets would be on sale until a day or two before the show and then collected and delivered to the venue box office. I could go there three or four days before any show and get decent seats in the first twelve rows or so. This was when concert tickets were 6 or 7 bucks each. Never had to camp out for tickets. Those of us who grew up in the 70s keep telling the rest of you how great it was. It really was.
Over the past couple years our local amphitheater was taken over by LiveNation. I went to the Papa Roach, Falling In Reverse, Hollywood Undead and Bad Wolves tour this past summer. It was an awful experience. I brought $40 cash with me for parking (yes $40 to park your vehicle for a few hours.) Anyways we pull up to the parking lot employee and she says "Oh, it's all cashless now." That alone pushed me over the edge in anger inside. What if there was a power outage? or the electronic banking system was down for some reason at concert time? Cashless is a very bad idea all around. Then before the show even started it began raining so the venue staff pushed back the opening gates time as we all just continued tailgating in the parking lots. The rain starts letting up. Nobody in the staff tells anyone that gates were open. Most of the fans including myself missed getting to see Bad Wolves. I was actually excited to see them live again with their current singer. I saw them already on tour with Tommy. That put me in a sour mood. Then we get told I never put in an order with our expensive lawn seat tickets to have two rented lawn seats. I know 100% that I paid for them and even showed her the receipt showing I paid for it as well. We ended up having to re-pay for our seats. The 3 bands we did get to see were great. Then came the concession stands. Of course it is all cashless again. SMH. Then I find out it is almost $40 for 2 16-ouce Mike's Hard Iced Tea's! What in the living fuck is that kind of an upcharge!? I will never be going back to my local amphitheater for years now thanks to LiveNation ruining my first experience at their venue.
Major local entertainment companies that do things for sports venues need to take over much of what Live Nation does.
@@evacody1249 there are no major local entertainment companies.
I don't go to many concerts because of ticket cost and travel cost, and also because many artists don't play shows in my area. So I stick to local festivals, and my old high school auditorium, which seats 1000, became a venue for tribute bands and indie shows. Tickets for those shows are 39.50 to 69.50 and they're sold through Eventbrite. The last time I purchased with Ticketmaster, it was in the late 90s. Donna Summer was touring. My tickets, and these were lawn seats, came to nearly $80. I thought that was high back then, now it would probably be over $300. Something definitely needs to be done.
holy shit that reminds me of the time when movie studios owned the cinemas back in the day. And M. Shadows sounds like as if he is puppeteer-ed by Ticketmaster/LiveNation
Well, Live Nation does promote a lot of their tours, and even has them listed as an “artist” on their web-site. 🤷♂️
Thank you for this Tank! I have bought only one ticket in the past 30+ years. It was a LN venue national act. 48$ for the ticket and another 25 in fees. I was fortunate for a while with former crew mates still out there touring and they would take care of me. Sadly they are not among us anymore so I'm done with spectating shows.
Love this videos, Dude!!! They are so freaking interesting...
the problem is, that people are willing to pay the prices...most concerts i went to had reasonable pricing.. that even i as a teen (back in the 90s) could afford to go. when i went to festivals WGT, M'era Luna, Wacken,.. the prices were/are reasonable... and then check nowadays solo concerts... and you can only think,.. nah... i just listen to the album at home or watch the blue ray, or whatever... no concert is worth the prices those companies ask for.
and 100% of door is never going to the artist... ever... because those price includes every fee in the book,.. venue for instance, advertising just to name two.
Makes me miss how things were done back in the 80s in my prime concertgoing days. You show up at 5am (or even the night before) to get in line at the box office, and if you're lucky you wind up getting great seats at the same price as the people who didn't do that and sat in nosebleed. Sometimes you had to show up at a different time to get "line tickets", but if it was your favorite band you were damn well going to do that. Sure there were scalpers, but they weren't operating at an advantage, and there wasn't a financial barrier for enthusiastic teenagers winding up close to the stage. Got to see Van Halen from the 10th row and Boston from the 8th row by putting forth that extra effort. Now, as a middle-class 50-something, seeing a major concert from the first 10 rows with my wife would cost more than the airfare and lodging to take a long weekend vacation!
I Never really experienced this because of my age, but my dad told me that sometimes standing in line for tickets was a blast because of all the other people you met.
Ticketmaster does gouge its customers. People paid $500 tickets in the bleeds when tickets to Springsteen went on sale. Dynamic pricing means as the date of the show draws near, the face value from TM goes up daily. At a local show sponsored by radio station, cheap seats cost the amount of the FM frequency of the station ($9.71). On TM the same tickets went up to $30 before the show. Thats price gouging. Other ticket companies don't raise prices (fees) as the show date gets closer. LN and TM are trying to make up lost profits because of covid rescheduling. They have been doing the same thing since Pearl Jam first complained way back in the day. Its a monopoly thats really air tight.
I feel lucky that when I saw Gojira back in August I only paid $118 with fees and tax...And it was at one of our state Casinos so every seat was good and the sound top notch..Blink 182 is charging as much as $700+ for seats..makes me sick
I'm old enough to remember standing in line in front of a ticket office and you could actually get front row tickets if you were first in line at the same price as the rest of the tickets. Not even remotely possible nowadays. I refuse to buy tickets through Ticketmaster, thus no live shows (except for local bands at local venues, for me anymore.
I honestly still go to the box offices directly to buy the tickets when I can. I remember going to see A7X on the Taste of Chaos tour (dating myself back to 2007/2008) the venue was across the street from my high school. When tickets went on sale I literally went across the street and got like 10 tickets for me and my friend group for $300 because they were $30 each and no fees. Even more recently went to the All Time Low 15 year anniversary tour in 2018. Ticket base price online I think was like 40-60 for 1 ticket with fees ended up being 80-120 (because the fees doubled the price of the ticket and the order fee isn't just 1 fee for the order, no it's on each ticket even though it's 1 order). I went to the same venue went to the box office, got 3 tickets for 120 (so basically for the cost of 1-1.5 tickets online).
I had a presale code for Iron Maiden in Columbus, Ohio. Couldn't get pit tix and I signed in a few minutes before the tix were scheduled to go on sale. I kept getting booted. What I ended up doing, was going to the arena the day of show and I bought pit tix from a scalper for face value. I was overjoyed to know that I didn't have to pay ticketmaster fees. I go to 20-30 shows a year and I always try to find a way to not pay those fees. What Live Nation is doing is criminal
I got tickets for Iron maiden in Germany for next year through eventim which is the biggest player in germany (i think). Paid €97,50 per ticket and 5,- / ticket in fees. I wonder what the same tickets costs in the US (and what fees do you usually pay for tickets?). 100 Euros for one ticket is already hard at limit of what I would pay for a single ticket. People complain about wacken tickets costing 300 bucks for 2023 but there you get a 4 days festival with tons of bands, so this price tag is more reasonable. Also they have a good approach on scalping /black market. They distribute through a own platform, and re-sell is only allowed through their own platform, for the original price (not more, not less). That´s fair.
The Aerna should have there own ticket box office and not even be tied to live nation for anything.
I also heard from an insider that some of the ticket scalp companies are also owned by/linked with LN/TM. So they buy part of the tickets in the original sales, and then sell them again for higher prices and again fees. So they earn twice from one ticket. And fans can't get tickets bc it sells out too quickly.
I go to way less concerts now bc of the high prices. I don't buy merch anymore bc of the high prices. And I buy less albums bc of the high prices. Nowadays I only buy tickets to bands I absolutely want to see. For other bands, I go to the official mediation site we have here for concert tickets. On that site individuals can sell on their concert ticket, but for a max % more of the original price. The fun part is, the closer you get to an event and there still are tickets, the cheaper they get. That way I recently got tickets to a concert for 40 euro instead of the original 60 euro.
Somehow, someday upping the prices must turn against them, at least I hope. And it sounds like artists are the ones that have the power now to change it, if they work together.
I'm sure Ticketmaster own GetMeIn. They fought to get secondary tickets banned from eBay, gumtree, Facebook etc.. and then bought a secondary ticketing website. It would appear, therefore that scalping is fine.. as long as livenation make a commission on the sale.
Fantastic stuff there Tank. It's great to get the perspective of someone that's been there and seen this stuff first hand. I was only able to catch some of the twitch stream, and had hoped that the part about all the subsidiary companies had made the cut just to really drive the point home about it truly being a monopoly. There's a Catastrophic Personal Injury Attorney that accidentally became a youtuber; Attorney Tom, that talks about the suit from a legal perspective. His take was that the process is gonna end up taking years most likely just because of how extensive it is.
Consequently I am 10000% certain people at the DOJ/etc were getting paid off to make the 2010 merger go through. cause a) that's the kind of company they are and b) politicians.
The subsidiary video will be on here on Monday. 🤘
@@TankTheTech that's fantastic. Thanks for making great content man!
MCR is my favorite band but I’m not paying $400 for nosebleeds when I spent $40 to see ABR, FFAK, Erra, and LMTF in the front row and then saw the same lineup a month later for the same price. With all the merch i bought i still spent less than those nosebleeds cost and i got to further support a stacked lineup via merch.
Yup, and that’s the problem here. Real fans have less opportunity to see their favorite bands. I’ll tell you right now, as much as I like certain bands, I’m not paying hundreds of dollars to go see them.
@@TankTheTech exactly! if these prices continue, I’m content with never seeing MCR live. I’ll continue to support other bands i love who aren’t charging an insane price to see them. Much better shows imo anyways.
I quit going to concerts for the most part.I recently saw 38 Special but only because tickets were only$40.When I heard what they wanted for Springsteen tickets I was floored.
I have not bought tickets since I saw Mötley Crue in 2014. Saw them in 3 venues. I wasn’t surprised by the prices but then I was. Especially for floor close to stage…$1,000’s. Then, in 2019 when the arena tour was announced the closest venue at that time was Atlanta (about 6 hour drive). The prices are dear lord. Im like I’m out. I wanted to see the other artists on the bill. Pandemic happened and more arenas were added. Came very close but decided nah, I’m not going to spend that kind of $ to be outside in the heat (I don’t do outdoor concerts because the heat will make me sick). I tapped out. It’s just ridiculous how much they want. My 1st concert was Metallica and it cost me $50 for 2 tickets back in 1992. A good chunk was fees because my mother had bought them over the phone. I was able to take my younger sister to see Backstreet Boys for her birthday in 1998. The following year I stood in line and they had some weird lottery where I went from 25th in line to like 3rd. Was able to get tickets to a show that sold out in under an hour. The show was in Lexington Kentucky and 2 of the guys in Backstreet were from there…so it was a special show. Y’all think Metal shows are loud? Go a show where it’s mostly middle school girls and good grief. You could barely hear the music over the high pitched screams. 😂
Way back when The Grateful Dead had a mail order ticket option. You were buying the tickets from The Dead directly. The system was ridiculous and convoluted. Orders had to be sent in specifically sized envelopes. You also had to send they envelopes you were getting your tickets mailed to you. You also had to include an index card with specific info. The slightest deviation got your order sent back without tickets. But at least they tried.
You're right, we as music fans worldwide & artists, bands people in the business who actually still care about the music itself need to start having some serious conversations about how concerts & festivals, especially for big name artists (stadium level) are becoming straight-up unaffordable for the average i guess you could call it 'middle class' fans.
I actually forgot about the metallica ticket scandal a few years ago when they were selling blocks of tickets directedly to the secondary market and basically getting a cut from tickets being sold twice, that was some shady shit. Edit: And Live Nation and AEG charging more for ADA seating REPULSIVE. Anyone from outside the US , do ticket companies charge more for the disabled section in your country?
I bought a ticket for a show at Gramercy Theatre in NYC a few weeks ago. When I was picking my seat, I saw a notice that said something to the effect that if you need accessible seating, buy a GA ticket and see the venue management when you arrive at the venue.
@@davidfrischknecht8261 We actually had a group in our state sue the city since it's a city owned venue.
Been to hundreds of gig in UK, France and Germany. Never paid more for disabled access seating. 9 times out of 10 you get a carers ticket for free so essentially get half price admission 👍
Things have gotten so ridiculous. I don't think I will go to a concert again for a long time. It is really sad.
Thinking of going to Knotfest festival next year in Australia ( where I live) and sorta can't really justify $200 for only 3 out of the 10 or so bands involved that I'm interested in seeing, playing 40 minute sets, even when they are legendary bands like Testament and Megadeth.
I know that over here in Australia, these bands wouldn't be able to justify coming here considering the distance from everywhere else by themselves but I'm reminded that Iron Maiden have done it twice at only $80 for general entry and have done an Australia wide tour with over 10 shows. Still thinking about it 🤔.
Ticket Master is big over here and and are not only involved in the music industry but sport and entertainment as well.
To see this happening and your insights has got me thinking allot.
Bro. When those spirit box tickets launched last week. All tickets sold out in pre sale for the venue i live near. So when the public sale went up THE ONLY tickets available were scalpers re-selling GA for $300-500.
Fucking insane.
Dead & Company had the same issue with Summer 23 tour tickets as well
This has gone on for almost 30 years. Pearl Jam went after Ticketmaster back in 1995, but no one cared (except PJ fans) at the time. It’s sad that it took their computer systems to crash in order for this ball to get rolling.
Its not the first time that the tm system has crashed though because of people trying to buy tickets. It happens every. single. time. BTS has toured. The difference is, Taylor Swift called it out. Major players were involved in trying to get tickets, an attorney general faced the same problems and was going to look into it.
Hi Tank thank you for the info I have seen how much tickets are in general and with myself who used to
live for the live music experience is jus shaking her a head at prices now no way can I afford $300 for a nose bleed ticket absolutely deplorable . Eventually what comes around in and any industry will go around all through industrial history a giant that is built will eventually crumble. Music is my life and my safe haven, music is very sacred to me. How many times in history has money and greed been the downfall of corporations ???? Thank you again Tank I would love to interview you on my show Hangin with the Dreamer please
2007 Ozzfest was free. Plus several years ago TM got in trouble because of their fees and they gave people free GA tickets to select concerts. Issue with that was they were only letting so many "free tickets" to be use per concert.
I remember about 12 years ago I spent $80 a piece for floor tickets to see Metallica. More recently right before the pandemic I was about to buy floor tickets to see System of a Down @ $300 a piece, but I decided against it because I was worried about the show getting cancelled. Which is what ended up happening. As the pandemic subsided they annouced that they were going to go out on the tour that was cancelled. I went to check ticket prices and the were $527 a fucking piece. This shit is fucking ridiculous and out of control. I love the experience of getting see bands live, there is nothing like it. Wether it's getting bloody in the pit to Slipknot or Slayer, smoking blunts to the head as Cypress Hill performs the entire Black Sunday album, or rolling balls watching Andy C spin some dope ass D n B set, those experiences have shaped my appreciation and love for all music. Those experiences have been so memorable and lasting that when I hear music from the bands and artist that I've seen live I get the chills and goosebumps because I can close my eyes and transport myself back to those moments being in the crowds. It makes me sad not just for myself but for the younger generations that will be missing out on those experiences because the prices that are being charged nowadays have really just put it out of reach for the majority of people.
great video man! 🤘
Great video, explains a lot! As a product of the 80's, I haven't gone to an arena show in a long time. Plus, many of my favorite artists are playing county fairs these days!! $300 for a ticket to me is insane, regardless of who's playing.
I’m a product of 1970. I agree ticket prices are high these days. I go to a few shows, lots of genres. These big artists like Taylor don’t just put on a show, it’s an entire production. They put on an experience these days.
This is why I have stopped going to so many shows. I love live shows and I have no problem spending money to see the artists I enjoy but I can't afford to spend in 1 night what I spend in 3 months for my medications. I don't see anything in an arena because I'm not spending $100 dollars for tickets before all the fees are tacked when I can't even see the artists without a big screen. I'll listen to the album at home.
If artists want to charge $300 for tickets more power to them but it really does leave shows only available the elite haves. Though, the blame is partially on the people who are willing to pay scalpers 3x the face value for tickets. They are enabling the behavior.
I was a young teenager in the early 90s when lining up to buy the tickets at the venue 6 hrs early, or going to the grocery store customer service to buy physical tickets. I didn't have to pay an extra fee just to be able to print out my ticket on my home computer or sit on my computer constantly hitting refresh hoping my internet does have a blip.
I did end up buying tickets to see Spiritbox, but the whole experience was awful. Since it was one of the days when T Swift fans were also trying to get tickets, the site was unbelievably slow. The timer they have for holding the tickets in your cart ran out twice while my payment was processing, and only worked on the third try. If this had been a situation like the Swift tickets where you had been waiting in a 2000+ person queue, and you didn't get them because of their awful site, I would have been furious.
The tickets I got were close to $100 for 2. I live nearby the venue I'm seeing Spiritbox at, so I thankfully don't have to factor in travel, hotel, etc. I got lucky there. My way of justifying the price is this is probably the 1 concert I'll actually go to this year. Wish it was more though.
John Oliver`s "Last week tonight" had an episode about Ticketmaster etc.. Roughly 8 months ago. It`s on youtube too.
"the band members dont talk to live nation, their management does" is a pretty weak argument!
Yeah, I remember that. It was a really good piece.
Here's a portion of my "upcharge" issue I notified Ticketmaster about. btw - They never responded to my issue and keep sending me irrelevant so-called "solutions".
1. I was # 2 in the queue
2. I made my selection in row A (the seat was green and it changed to grey after my selection which is normal)
3. When I selected the VIP option, the seat became unavailable
4. I selected another green seat in row A that was less desirable.
5. When I selected the [NEXT] button to advance to the next order screen, I lost that seat
6. I went back to the seating chart and only a few seat were available, now in row C
7. I selected an even less desirable seat and that transaction went through. Then…
8. Another row A seat became available and I selected and paid for that one (Seat 107)
9. But now I had to pay $90.85 more ($203.55 rather than $112.70) for the seat I originally wanted. All this happened in just a few minutes.
This is extremely improper and I’m asking for a fair resolution - to refund that higher price difference ($90.85) as I did everything correct but your ordering system kept kicking me out after I made two legitimate selections. As I tried to advance in the ordering system it deselected my seat choices until it steered me toward the higher priced ticket (for the same original seat!), which I had to purchased if i wanted a see my band -- a total rip-off! Thanks Tank, for bringing this issue to light with your viewers!
I remember sleeping outside the ticket booth all night long to get Rush tickets at the Spectrum in Philadelphia
I wonder if this was a big part of Marco from Nightwish's points in his letter. It's the creatives that get hurt the most. Remember Ticketmaster is paying the management company owned by the same company who then pay the artists after they take another piece of the ticket. I would guess that the artist is getting well under 30% of the face value of the ticket after all the LiveNation fees.
Easy fix. Everyone quit buying tickets and bankrupt livenation. Bands, host independent shows. I just wont go to concerts if prices are like this. Not worth it to me. And now i have an excuse to not listen to A7X again.
I forgot to mention the prices for the parking, food, beer and merch. You could blow $200 more before the show even starts. $50 parking and another $50 for a shirt or $18 for a beer, while a coke is $15. At one show in NY in October some food was $26! Complete insanity! My friends and I buy some beer and Italian heroes/subs for $12 each at our neighborhood deli and eat them before heading inside for the show.
As a person that has attended several sports and comedy events the last few years I am so sick of the fees. It’s got to the point where the price is doubled and tickets are sold out immediately and you have to pay 3 times face value and then on top of that you have fees for everything that equal the price of the ticket. Something needs to be done. I’m lucky enough to still be able to afford to go see shows I want to see but they are pricing out 60 percent of people
I bought tickets to see Dropkick Murphy's via Ticketmaster, then the tour got rescheduled, all except (for some reason) the date in London that I had tickets for. So I went to ask for a refund and found that Ticketmaster had fully cancelled my tickets with no proof that I ever bought them as they went *poof* so three tickets for £35 each equals = £105 loss. :(
as someone who got TS tickets at face in the presale, I didn't buy my allotment. I only got 2. I offered them to coworkers with the stipulation that if they couldn't use the tickets, they needed to sell them back to me at cost, not resell them. No one took me up on that offer. I have since gotten offers of up to 1800 each for my $200 tickets. I can easily see how someone would have bought all 6 tickets, used 4 and sold 2 to make up for the entire cost they paid. So I agree, the system today allows "real fans" who rightfully got in to want to win the lottery and scalp some of the tickets, so they buy extra.
However, I wanted to address something slightly different. When you admit that TM loses money on some to live off the gains of others, that's how I felt with the TS groupies basically brow beating the guy who owned her old music. In this industry, a LOT of bands get money from the labels to cover costs of an album that never sees the returns of what they were offered. When they do hit it big with an artist, that money they make off them allows them to fund smaller bands that may never make it. For every Taylor Swift there are a thousand joe nobody's that take some of that money away. The same goes with Live Nation.
It's just as bad for the industry to become top heavy and allow only the artists who succeed to make money. If there isn't a cash flow that goes back into the system, the smaller artists never get the chance to become big artists.
Great points all around. I can see how a lot of TS fans had the opportunity to become scalpers themselves, I just don’t think the majority of them did it. TS fans are die hard. They weren’t waiting in line to get tickets to scalp, they wanna see the show. Now, that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, but I don’t think hundreds of thousands of people were doing it.
It boggles my mind that people are willing to pay $1800 for a concert. Even the $200 you mention as the standard price is a price I would only pay if it was a 3+ days festival. Never for a single artist.
I'm going to see Front 242 tonight, small venue, about $40 with fees. Same venue a few weeks ago, two smaller metal bands and Misery Index as headliner, I think it was less than $30 for the evening.
Am I having less of an experience as someone paying $200-1800 for a TS show? Maybe, maybe not, but certainly not in proportion to the price paid.
And imagine paying those prices and be seated at the back of those giant venues, where you mostly see the artist on the big screens. Compared to the small venues where I pay less and get so close up I could reach out and touch the artists if I wanted to.
And remember that most of todays giant artists started out touring the small venues. Go and see those smaller acts today, tomorrow they might be the next TS.
Dynamic pricing is way worse than rereleasing an album, dynamic pricing = $125 difference, deluxe edition cd $20.
“Future-tank” sounds intimidating!
it does stink, because there have been so many groups Ive wanted to see, and it always starts out hey tickets are like 30-50 bucks each, not bad but by the end of just getting them on these sites (since you cant go anywhere else) its like a 250 dollar purchase sometimes. Not everyone can swing that. Or, if something like the pandemic happens, Ticketmaster didnt let me resell my LoG tickets since the make up show date was on a day I could not attend. I was out about 200 and I know most of that didn't go to the band, so I cant even be like oh well at least I got to still support the guys...no i got to support Ticketmaster. Their amazing solution to reselling is to link your freaking bank account.....and I am sure their site has top notch security
why does it sound like M shadows is being paid to run interference for this whole situation.
Hey tank I was wondering I’ve watched your Ice Nine Kills reactions for a while ago and was wondering why you didn’t keep going. There newer songs are sick. Some of them doing have a video yet but are still super cool to listen to. Anyway have great rest of your day.
Cause I was getting slammed with copyright claims and blocks on all of their stuff so I stopped. Haha
Legislation is the only way to stop them.
The other thing about TM/LN is that the fees are per seat, not per order. I just bought tix for the family (6) for TSO at Christmas..$90+ in fees. $420 in tix became over $500.
Insane.
I bought Duran Duran tickets in June and did not have access to said ticket until two days before the show. Seems a system like that would seriously slow down resellers
It's funny how M. Shadow is so concerned about fans paying an extra $20 for a re-released album or remastered album, but he'd be perfectly fine with charging his fans hundreds or even thousands of dollars to get tickets to his live shows. He probably has a special bank account labelled "Live Nation Bribes" based in a certain set of islands located in the Caribbean somewhere. 😛
You don't seem to realize that given the money he's making from the still high prices of the concert tickets can go towards having more shows, having better shows, and otherwise supporting the bands. Also, there is a difference between essentially selling the same product again but calling it a different thing, and having people pay a lot of money for your tickets
@@Jonathan-A.C. bootlicket 😆
@@zeenuf00
"I can't come up with any counter argument, so-"
I miss my stagehand job like crazy, but don't miss working for Live Nation.
Damn. I hope that there's nothing in the fine print of contracts you've signed over the years, in order to work, that could come back to bite you. People extracting this much money are monsters. There are probably people in some legal firm gathering info on you and yours right now. Best to you. Thanks!
🤷♂️
What sort of world am I living in that Kid Rock makes the smartest point?
I dont care about Swift, Im not her target audience. But Im glad someone at her level has spoken out.
oh how i miss the days you could only buy tickets at the venue or win them on the radio.
I buy from Ticket City. I'm sure I paid some level of premium but I got to pick my tickets and their customer service is fantastic.
shit, I'm glad I was able to get in for some of the Spiritbox tickets. Great breakdown man!
The bands I like are either on their way down and play smaller venues and venues that are independent of Live Nation or I like bands that may be seen as art bands ir niche band so they too tend to play independent venues. My concert experience is therefore really positive and because they "big boys" down get in on it I'm not subjected to over pricing and so on. Where Live Nation impacts me is sports venues. I will say this--the last two years I went to an out of town sports stadium to see a professional football team and noticed that the seats were super high if I was closer to the field and still high but not as much when I bought nose bleed tickets. The advent of big time ticket sellers in my humble opinion has been tough on fans. I'm just lucky when it comes to music I like bands that Live Nation doesn't intersect with and therefore ticket prices are not too bad.
Iron Maiden came to Austin, Texas back in Sept. Ticket costs $700 to 1,200 for one ticket at the new arena in Austin, Texas. Concert tickets in Austin by Live Nation are wickedly greedy! I’m never paying to see a live Nation tour at the Moody arena ever. Moody arena sucks and is greedy home of Live Nation!
What contributes even more to the ticket pricing problem is that for most artists it has become the only viable thing to earn money. Streaming destroyed the what I guess used to be regular way of income for them, sales. Since Taylor Swift was part of this video look what she has done, and others before, make your album have 4 different colours so you can make a clock with it and obsessed fans don't >have to< buy only one copy they now have to buy multiple ones to have the complete discography. This for me is playing with fans especially with those that have some kind of behaviour or have mental problems and look for their help in that for whatever reason. Even worse is that she released the 3am version of midnights a few hours after her album got released without people knowing before. This led to fans with a much more reasonable approach to buying this album having bought it after maybe having listened to it after the first time and then realising only moments later that in order to get the other songs they have to pay for the standard version songs twice. That's such a method of ripping off your own fans. Unbelievable. I fear the only way of getting rid of scalping, probably never completely though, is when supply is higher than demand. But how many artists can afford that? Artists who can afford that and to which that's possible. This might only work for national stars that are more successful than most world stars. For example Germany has Helene Fischer. I don't know if you have heard of her since you're somewhat? a little bit involved into Germany/ German music. She used to be a Schlager singer, Hurrikan says hello, even though she never did Schlager like portrayed in that, that's Michael Wendler and maybe die Amigos and that kind, the biggest and people will still consider her to be this although she is a Pop singer now and they don't want to realise this but that's a different topic. Like in 2017/18 next year she will do 60 concerts in Germany, 5 in Austria and 5 in Switzerland. She does 5 concerts in a row! in the biggest arenas of those countries. In Bremen it will be only 3 but for that she will do 7 in Cologne which has Germany's biggest multi purpose arena. There will be around 18.000 people in 7 consecutive concerts. Then there are places like Oberhausen or Dortmund that have 5 concerts as well each and that aren't even 80km away from Cologne and those two cities are just 40km apart. In 2018 she was among the 10 highest paid female solo singers in the world with ever other one on the list being known all over the world and her only being big in the German speaking world. Compared to 5 years ago she I am quite sure has lost a decent amount of fans for absolute ridiculous reasons, really ridiculous which you can't blame her for and they still did it. She probably won't even sell out most concerts I would be surprised if she did but I suppose the numbers will be like 95%. So if people want tickets they don't have to pay the 5 or 6 times amount of it because they might be some available still. Scalpers would have to buy so many tickets on which they might end up... in the end
It's interesting how different artists have a different mindset to streaming.