SUCCESS!!!. 2011 Tacoma SR5 4x4. 131,000 miles. 2 mechanics and the guy at the parts store thought I was kidding (crazy). Been living with this for almost a year. Replaced master cylinder, new calipers and pads. No leaks anywhere............ever. Start the truck and the brake pedal goes to the floor, minimal brakes and barely drivable. Bled the brakes, same problem. Started the truck and the air bubbles in the tubing I used showed endless air bubbles in the left rear wheel cylinder. The rubbers were bone dry. Replaced the cylinder and am as good as new. Anyway, a HUGE Thank You from Vermont!
A follow up. A husband and wife were driving icy roads. Unfortunately, the brakes failed. There was nowhere to bail out. The left had a 50' ravine and to the right were boulders lining the road. In every state they would look at each other in desperation and she would scream with their pending demise. Every state except Vermont that is. The husband looked to his wife and said............................................ "Hold my beer and watch this".
Hi Joe: I had the same problem on a 2003 Ford Escape. It was the most irritating problem I had ever experienced with hydraulic brakes. It occurred during the Alberta winter, & at 80 years of age I was not going to lie on the ground fiddling with brakes ! I took the Escape (V6 4X4) to three shops & NONE of them could fix it. 4 Wheel hydraulic brakes are not rocket science, so living in the middle of nowher( my county is 5500 square miles & the pop. density is .6(yes, point 6 persons per square mile !). One of my farmer friends let me use his farm shop to work on the Escape. I built jumper tubings to eliminate the ABS Same problem. . The pedal was soft & it went damned nearly to the floor on a medium hard stop. I drew a schematic of the hydraulic system & sat & swilled coffee & thought about it. I had my friend pump the brakes up & hold all the pressure he could on the pedal. No sign of a leak anywhere, & we had exchanged master cylinders, with no difference with either cylinder. The master cylinder cups were holding, with no leak down. My friend said " What we are seeing is impossible ! " When I was working on radar in the Air Force, a knowledgeable specialist once remarked to me that when you see the impossible you are overlooking something After some thought. I disconnected the lines from the distribution block , one at a time & threaded a bolt into each hole. The right rear would never feel hard, & after a series of pumps the pedal went lower & lower. I bought TWO rear cylinders & changed them both & the problem was solved. Air can gain ingress to the cylinder but hydraulic fluid can't gain egress to the atmosphere if the cups are spongy. Great clip Joe, & I have subscribed. Cheers! Brian
Glad it worked out for you. Yes I also isolated and tested each line to find the problem. People comment here saying it’s impossible to not have it leaking fluid but that’s exactly what was happening.
Brian! I am dealing with a very similar problem, my friend! And your statement about hydraulic fluid not leaking into the atmosphere but air being able to be sucked into the brake system is spot on! I am experiencing a very similar problem where I can not achieve a firm brake pedal with the engine on. There has got to be a part that is sucking in air. I am down to the front calipers. Everything else has been replaced. And the front calipers look and work fine. They have got to be sucking in air. Got to be. Wish me luck and thanks! 😊
if this is true and solves my problem im going to lose it lol i even checked those rubber cups in both of my rear wheels they looked a bit charred but no signs of leakage anywhere
This is the first and ununique video on the internet tha talks about my problem,, just save me 300 dollars that this mechanic shop wanted to charge to fix my problem,, thank you so much ,, you were describing my problem stap by stap,, keep up the good work educating people like us,,! Good blass you,,,
Follow up on my 98 Dodgeram 1500: Last thing I did was replace both rear brakes including wheel cylinders. One wheel cylinder had a little fluid drip out when I removed the rod that pushes the brakes against the drum. Although there was no fluid visible from the backside of the wheel plate and bleeder area, I am convinced it was the culprit just as Joe Stoe outlines here in this vid. Kudos to Joe! In the process of learning how to replace my own brakes front and rear, I not only got new brakes but learned a very good lesson on what to look for in the future before replacing the entire system. Thanks again Joe!
1993 Isuzu Trooper. This is exactly my issue. Brake pedal goes almost to the floor before firmly engaging. Had master cylinder replaced twice (one leaked), had brake booster replaced twice (one aftermarket leaked on arrival). The mechanic said he did not know what the problem was, so after $1000 limped home with the same problem. After viewing your video, it appears that I might have the air in the wheel cylinder problem. I get in the car and the brake pedal feels normal, with only slightly goes down. Turn on the engine and immediately the pedal goes almost to the floor before engaging. Also, while driving, I will pump the brakes a little before stopping, and I hear a hissing sound. I need a better brake mechanic. Thanks for the video. Thumbs up!
Hello. I know its been two years since you post your comment. I'm having the same problem with yours on my 1997 Isuzu Rodeo. Did you get your brakes fixed? What did you do? I replace my master brake cylinder and brake booster but still having the same problem as yours.
@@etc6272 After going through the aftermarket repelacements twice for the master cylinder and the brake booster, and having the brake system bled twice (there was never any air in the system and the wheel cylinders were not leaking), The last "new" (but not OEM") brake booster seemed to engage the brakes a little better than before, but not like it should be. The brake pedal still goes way down before engaging, but it does work. I have even done some hard stops, and no problems. It is just an uncomfortable feeling having the pedal go down so far before engaging. The last brake shop person said that the brakes were the best that he could do and that I just needed to accept the "new normal" braking situation. The brakelight on the dash never came on. I did find one video where an old mechanic addressed the problem: the after market brake boosters are supposed to work the same as the OEM part, but in reality, the little rod that goes from the booster to engage the master cylinder is often not the same length and needs a special adjustmeent. This makes sense, but most repair people are either unaware of this or do not want to take the time to make this adjustment. So, I accepted the "new normal" but always go through a mental drill for what to do if the brakes fail. I hope this helps. But now, I am have dash warning for the antilock brake system. Looking for parts and so far none fit. Good luck to you.
Very much appreciate you taking the time to make this video. That issue of how air could get into a brake system when it wasn't opened is now answered. Thanks
I think Joe answered this question with him replacing the left rear brake cylinder. I can see how the cylinder was acting like a one way valve allowing air to enter the when the pedal was let up, but when pushing the pedal down the cylinder closed well enough to disallow fluid to leak out even under high pressure.
You can also isolate the front from the back by using vice grips with rubber hose over the teeth and clamp the rubber line in the rear and at each corner till you find the problem. That's how I found my front caliper was bound up and the peddle was going to the floor but it solved it once I freed up the caliper. Hope this helps others.
Sir, you are a Great American! My Son and I have been trying to figure out these exact symptoms on an 08 Chevy Suburban. Your video has been enormously helpful. Thank You.
Thanks for sharing. Your delivery of the subject is concise and informative. I have learned the hard way that air infiltration is not always something you can physically see with our light - gathering sensory organs / eyeballs. These microscopic gaps in brake hardware go undetected by our human brain.
THE FIRST SIGN OF HOPE! after watching my boss & his workers confused as hell, working on his ute non stop for 3 days straight! This explains the mystery. THANK YOU for the Info bro.
Way back, I had a VERY SCARY incident in my '69 Mustang. I had some brake service done, and for the day I picked it up, and my drive to college, everything was fine. The way home turned into a nightmare - coming up to a stop light on the highway (red), I stepped on the brake pedal - right to the floor with no resistance! Coming up fast on other stopped cars, I slammed it down as hard as I could several times and STOOD on it for the last few feet. Stopped in time. I continued slowly ahead, giving myself a lot of room for stopping, and went directly to the garage that had done the work (only about 6 blocks away). I could barely get the story out as I was shaking so much, and they fixed the issue. Never went back there for service.
If not winter, if this happens slowly pull up on e brake, I also suggest dropping gears. My cavalier shifter has reverse, neutral, drive, 3,2,1. My brakes went while I was in town and hobbled home using e brake and dropping it to 3,2,1 to slow down.
Always lower gears to slow the car down, also open your door fully, hold door open the air resistance will slow it down, last but not least play a good song on the radio really loud to take off the edge...........
Just happened to me...thus morning. I Thank God that traffic was light. I for a moment had to look at what tree to hit. Eventually after slowing down into a up hill. I was able to stop....Lesson is, periodically do a pre trip on your Veh!!!
I had that problem, I kept driving the pick up like that , only one rear wheel had brake functioning , Until now that I hear your comment ,and I will fix it soon. Thank you.
Very informative and good video. I put the vehicle up on Jack stands and had a friend apply the brakes then I went and rotated the hubs and found the right rear brake cylinder was defective. Replaced the wheel cylinder and got it working. Thanks
I was having the same exact symptoms with no brakes while engine on. It ended up being the brake caliper guide pins. They were packed with greased up dirt. Would allow the clipper to slide freely. Cleaned up with fresh grease and got my brakes back.
Strange! The only time I encountered anything like that the problem was a bad bleed valve. The guy insisted the bleed valve was OK but changed it at my insistence and it solved the problem. Essentially, it was the same as what you describe: closing the valve stopped the fluid but it wasn't making a good seal and instead of drawing fluid into the piston on the pedal return, it was drawing air through the bleed valve.
Hello Joe. I had this problem with a VW camper and a Renault Master motorhome.search the net but like you say, no answers. I fitted new master cylinder,new booster,bled the brakes to death but couldn’t solve the problem.Took it to a brake specialist who couldn’t solve the problem. Found your video so I’m going to follow your advise. Thank, Rob, England.
Well thank you very much I really appreciate you took your time to explain that problem which is my brother's problems too, I saved your video and I'm going to send it to him, it seems to me like he has the same kind of problem with his 1995 Chevy Truck, he has good brakes with the engine off and bad breaks with the on, Thanks man it's like you said it on your Tutorial that no one took the time to explain what you explained, appreciate it big time because it's kind of frustrated with it😮
I'm having the same problem with a 68 charger .I've replaced everything new ,booster master,all lines, front disc brakes & yes recently replaced the rear drum brakes including the wheel cylinders & still goes to floor when running. Although today I noticed that if I try pumping a few inches from the floor it starts to build pressure. But when I let off the pedal & go to pump again,it's back to the floor. I'm glad you got lucky & fixed yours. This is driving me crazy.
Thank You So Much ... !!! Thank You for All Your Homework ... !! No One has Been Able to Tell Me Ither ... !! But I've Just Learned A Great Pointer from You ... !! Thanks Again ... !!
So there might be an oddball check ball in those. It's to keep fluid pressure from going all the way back to the mc, so that the drum pads stay closer to the drum. If the check ball is not working, the fluid flows back, and thus more fluid is needed the next time to actuate the rear brake.
Very good, always check the basics. I work at a shop and we had the same problem with a corvette it would pull air in through a bad piston seal in the rear .
I have the same problem with w123 230e auto shift. With the engine off, the brake pedal is stiff. As soon as engine runs and brakes are pressed, the pedal sinks with a slight increase in revs until the bottom of the pedal's stroke. The scenario repeats and brakes must be pumped to stop the car. Very dangerous indeed. This video helps a lot in eliminating minors first. Grateful as ever!
I had a quite similar problem, long pedal travel and ABS working on the road, car passed MOT, I suspected master cylinder etc, but I bought a preloved ABS block and bingo.!
I have the same problem exactly on my 93 Typhoon. After replacing the same components that you did (except booster) I was about replace the booster. I read how much of a pain it is to replace on these vehicles, so I scanned youtube for an easier way to replace it. I came upon your video and decided to try your fix... I will let you know if it works when I am done.
Thank you I have the same problem on a 98 gmc 1500. Replaced the master cylinder same problem checked all wheel cylinders just as you did same problem air in left rear. Petal still goes to floor will change wheel cylinder and see if that fixes it. Glad I found your video.
THANKS Joe, for sharing! It's one of those problems that is good to know, especially if you HAVE it. It's surprising that even experienced mechanics would not know how to find the underlying cause.
Hello everyone, let me tell you the problem, when you have done everything under the sun to try to correct spongy brake pedal, the problem is the( Combinations Valve) it is designed when there is low pressure to the rear or to the front of the brake system, proportioning valve will cut off pressure to the part being bleed.!. It thinks there is a leak.!.. It is a safety measure in the design to combination Valve where you will not lose all breaks if a leak occurs.!. There is a little tool, that you can get on line, ( that's screws down in the brake light indicator ON the Combination Valve), to hold it in place .!... while you bleed the brakes, this will allow equal pressure to all wheels while bleed, when done bleeding reinstall brake light indicator combination valve.!. Try it friends...
I had exactly the same problem with a Mitsubishi L200. When no brake fluid leaks out this can be very misleading and can make diagnosing the problem much more difficult. These pistons appear to be able to operate like a one way valve.
I have the same issue on a 2003 Ford Taurus. I have replaced everything with new parts and even deleted the ABS. I have pressure bled the brakes numerous times to no avail . My brakes are very spongy and go to the floor slowly when I crank the engine. This car has the bubble flare fittings , and you can't purchase a cap to fit the end of the metal lines, so I sawed the metal ends off the rubber hoses , since I had replace them with new ones. I purchased two solid plugs that were 1/8 27 TPI threads. I already had a 1/8 27 tap. This is a grease jerk tap. I drilled the brass end where I sawed the hose off with a 21/64 drill bit and tapped it for my plugs. When tapping , be sure and leave 6 or 7 threads exposed or it will be to loose since it is a tappered tap. I had to make these since I needed the female bubble flare ends to cap the lines. Hope this helps someone to be able to isolate each wheel.
Exact same problem on my 1991 F150. Original rear pistons, no leaks at all. But when I slid the boots off, 30 years of rust and brake fluid crud came out. Replaced both pistons and the petal got much stiffer. Having same problem with my 2000 4Runner and good to hear some validation to my theory.
Have this problem now with my 97 yukon. Thanks for the tips. Before i bought it, the previous owner had all brakes, calipers, and rotors replaced, then it sat for 2 years. Never said anything about a brake problem until i went to get it, had it towed lol. I can hear air hissing when i pump the brakes, i believe it's sucking in air like you'd mentioned.
Also sometimes you can tighten up the bleeder this video helps you but if the bleeder doesn't seal properly it can suck in air I have had it happen to me a couple of times in my lifetime you tighten up the bleeder screw but the bleeder screw is not sealing correctly I put my car on the concrete driveway and the next morning I had a small puddle brake fluid on the driveway it was a new wheel cylinder the bleeder screw was defective you could also have a problem if you don't tighten up the bleeder screw tighten up especially on an old wheel cylinder when you are bleeding the brakes
Yes I agree a bad bleeder will cause a problem. I put a little grease around the bleeder when I was isolating each part of the system to find the air leak.
Your great video led me to isolate the four corners of my car. I discover that the new calibres I had installed were boxed incorrectly and I had put them on the wrong sides with the bleeder valve faced down. Once I swapped them and bled them the brake pedal firmed right up. Thanks
Thank you so much for posting this video. Had the same exact problem with my 87 Olds 442. Loads of air out of the left rear drum brake. Hard pedal when engine off. Goes to the floor when engine is on. I subscribed and hit the like button. Anything to help you since you helped me👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Had same issue with my Son's 07 Silverado & after replacing almost all brake parts, bleeding, bleeding , & replacing rear brake wheel seals ECT. pedal goes close to floor with engine running. I'll give a try with motor running & go from there. Thanks for posting this .
I have the exact same problem in a 94 silverado. Been down all the same avenues. Master cyl, brakes hoses, new calipers. Bled bled and bled and until I watched this video, I didn't think much of all the air I was getting out of the right rear wheel cyl. I thought that was just air still purging from the master cyl swap. I will try a new wheel cyl and def update the results in a couple days. Thank you. Pray this gets it . I'm out of ideas. UPDATE: I teplaced both rear wheel cylinders and it did not help. After more research, ive learned that the abs dump valve may have trapped air that will not bleed and an abs delete will be happening. I hope that works.
@@joestoe1610 Update to the update. One of the new wheel cyls was sucking air. Not leaking, just sucking air and wouldn't bleed. Had to exchange for another one and that fixed the problem. Although I did delete the abs . Looks cleaner under the hood and don't have to worry about that being an issue in the future.
Bought my son his first truck, a 2007 tacoma. Have bled and bled with power bleeder. Super hard pedal. As soon as I turn truck on, pedal goes to the floor. Been working for days on it. No leaks at wheel cylinders in rear but it's getting air in somewhere. Nobody but you talked about it.
Hi Joe Stoe, Thanks for sharing your experience with the brake pedal issue when the engine is started. It's valuable insights like yours that help us troubleshoot and solve problems. My parents have a 2013 Multivan, and this problem sounds familiar. I'll definitely be checking your suggestion on my van as soon as I get home today. Appreciate the heads up and any additional tips you might have! Best regards,
Oh yes this helped. I pushed out the piston on both brake cylinders recently while changing my drum brakes. I have the same issue as you. I probably need to replace both cylinders.
THANK YOU - my Saturn2006 VUE just lost braking - went into a soft brake mode so .. I had exactly the same problem with drive rear cylinder ay thank for your efforts !
I gave my son my 08 Silverado and about a month ago the pedal got mushy. After he snapped 2 bolts on the front wheel bearing drifting around in the snow, I replaced the entire front brakes. A week ago he tells me he has to keep adding brake fluid. Well it's winter and with the snow I couldn't find a leak. So I put a new master cylinder in. STILL a mushy pedal. Pump it twice and they are as firm as can be. Only thing I can think of is a bad wheel cylinder and the adjuster not working. I HATE DRUM BRAKES!!!!
Did you happen to see any brake fluud on the backside wheel hub assembly? Mine is wet there, so maybe that's it. I will try that before replacing the booster. Many thanks:
I had stuck piston then done the bleeding after the fix did it few times but just felt soft still then did it with the engine running went around twice start the back then front and that made them work better
Thank U So Much U Explain My Problem Perfectly...I Too was going Crazy With This Problem Looked All Over the Internet...But Thanks to U I Really Nailed it..Thank U....MM
I have a 96 S10, I just can't get a normal brake pedal travel. I replaced the master cylinder, power brake booster, Rear wheel cylinders, rebuilt the front Disc calipers, New Disc pads, new brake shoes, Disc Rotors, Brake Drums, and all new brake hardware front and rear. I replace all these parts because they needed to be replaced. But when it came time to bleed the system. I just can't get a normal Pedal. When the engine is off. The brake pedal is hard, but when the engine is on, the pedal is probably a good 1" to 1-1/2" from the floor. Get this. I took my truck to the local Chevy dealer, and they told me this normal. The brake pedal was normal before I started this job. I pressure bled, and buddy bled the system before I took it to Chevy. The next step I'll try, is to isolate the master cylinder, to see the what pedal does without the whole brake system. All suggestions are welcomed. Thank you
Sounds a lot like all the stuff I just replaced on my S10. It is possible that you have a bad part even though it’s new. Try bleeding the brakes with the engine running, that’s what worked for me and how I found the bad wheel cylinder. Or there could be just a little more air stuck somewhere that bleeding with the engine running and making use of the brake booster will get it out. Isolating each part in the system is also a good idea to try. Forget the dealer, they don’t know about the older vehicles. If you have to take it somewhere, find a good local shop that works on older vehicles.
This is the exact problem I have! I was told that my brake boosterbis bad, but if that was the case, I would have had a hard brake pedal. I'm gonna check my rear drums.
A bad brake booster might be it though. In my 1980 Firebird that was exactly the problem. A torn diaphragm was the cause. Normally engine vacuum evacuates the area both in front of and behind the diaphragm. When the brake pedal is pressed, atmospheric pressure is allow to enter the space behind the diaphragm, forcing the diaphragm forward into the vacuum side, giving a boost to the brake pedal. Without a vacuum the brakes are not boosted, resulting in a hard pedal.
Place clamps on three of the four flexible brake hoses, and then pump the brakes, which will engage only the brake that is not clamped. If the pedal force is good, then you found one good brake. Continue with the other brakes by moving the three clamps to isolate a different brake and repeat until you identify the faulty brake. Also, it's best to clamp the flex hose at the end that is furthest from the caliper, as the flex hose itself might have the leak or simply be weak.
Do you do this with car running or not? I have caliper in all 4 corners. Would this still apply? Is the faulty one going to produce a soft/ mushy pedal then? And if so, replace caliper? Thanks
Thank you for the lord of god been wondering for my jeep as well, did everything you did, change master cylinder, bleed like 100x, thinking about the booster but diagnosis says otherwise was paused on that till this video
i finally found the answer. having same problem with a honda civic 1987 si and crx i change the booster and master cilinder and when i started the engine pedal goes to the floor pain in the butt. but i keep tracking this issue until i fix it doing that. you won't see any leaks at all. but that is the problem.
I don't recommend using grease on the bleeders. The fluid will dilute it very quickly. I clean the threads and wrap them a few times in teflon tape. Won't suck air in when you bleed and also won't rust sieze on you next time they need to servicing years down the line.
Replaced master cyl, booster, passenger side caliper (leaking) on a 98 Dodge ram 1500 (new caliper bleeder is up ) .....before doing this no warning indicators....bled breaks twice got a firm pedal engine off. Engine on, same problem at first... pedal all way to floor. Pumped a few times got a firm pedal with engine on after a minute. Put in reverse to back out of driveway and pedal goes to floor...no brakes. Drove down a less traveled road, stopped ok at a turnoff. turned around and no pedal again ..no brake! Drove back 1/2 mile to my driveway....stopped ok at intersection before turning off to my drive way, made a right turn into drive way and pedal again to floor...no brakes. Almost hit garage door, stopped by BBQ pit. Bled system again engine off , good pedal. Tried same drive test again same results except used E brake to save BBQ pit this time.:) Now getting ABS and Brake light warning. Master cyl full, no leaks apparent. Last brake job was 10,000 miles back.....shoes all good....little wear. Mike Bled brakes again today 3rd time , little to no air bubbles noted. Solid pedal until put in reverse to back up and then go forward I lose the pedal again. About ready to put new rear wheel cylinders in at this point , they aren't expensive...also a new drivers side front wheel caliper just to eliminate that possibility. ABS and Brake light still comes on after clearing with my scanner device. Beginning to suspect a bad ABS module and or pump.
Could this happen to brake calipers as well, or just "wheel cylinders" that are found on drum brakes, I wonder. I also don't get why the brakes don't go the floor with the car off. It should still be leaking, I would think.
I just did my rear brakes, all new parts, bags of parts and new shoes. Bled a half gallon of brake fluid out. Bench bled my master again. Pedal to the floor. But I still haven't bled to the front wheels. I saw one guy who plugged the master ports to see if it was good. My last step will be to take out the ABS. Looks very hard since I will have to learn how to bend brake lines.
Well you almost had my problem solved, the one I'm working on I did the same routine that you did except this one is 03 zr2 . Replaced the booster twice, master cylinder twice went through 2 gallon brake fluid still no brake pedal when motor is running.
The only reason I haven't had this problem in 50 years is because I always snap off the bleeders and have to change the wheel cylinders anyway. Lol. But I will remember this and appreciate the advice!
I have the same exact issue with my Civic. I just changed the driver side rotor, caliper, and pads and my pedal sinks to the floor with the engine on and before I did anything my pedal was perfect. Maybe it's air that's causing it but I dont know. I can't drive anywhere in the condition it's in. I should have left everything alone and took my car to the shop to my brakes done. I'm not happy right now, I am not a mechanic but I've brake jobs before.
It’s most likely air if you replaced the caliper. Make sure you have the correct caliper on that side as they are interchangeable and if wrong you’ll never get the air out. Also bleed the whole system not just that wheel. Yes It’s a pain
The vacuum assist brake booster behind the master cylinder will almost pull it down to the floor when the engine is running if there is any air in the lines that will compress. When you press the brake pedal , it opens the check valve and allows the vacuum assist.
Great video. I am having a similar issue. Pedal is hard. Does not sink. Start engine. Pedal sink... But I am not sure I am with you on the diagnosis (in my case), as I don't see how air can enter a cylinder while there is pressure on the pedal. (But when you let go of the pedal, then yes!). My brake system seem to can take my foot pressure, but not foot pressure + vacuum assist?? If I am not losing brake fluid the master cylinder must leak internally.
Curious if you solved your problem, I’m experiencing something similar- I can build pressure after a few pumps, whether with the engine on and driving or engine off. Yours sounds like brake booster from what I’ve found-
Just did an ABS delete on a 1990 Dodge Cummins. After bleeding with the engine off, truck was stopping, but pedal was soft. All my brakes are newer - to include a rear wheel disc brake conversion. OK, got it: Bleed the system again, this time with engine running. Thanks!
@@joestoe1610 I got rid of the proportioning block entirely. The lines go straight from the master cylinder to the brakes (into a brass T for the front wheels). ruclips.net/video/s6JI3w_-WII/видео.html
It’s simple to change out. Without the proportioning block is your braking force now equal front to back? Seems the rears would have too much braking power and would skid before the fronts?
Thats my problem. Bled three times with solo speed bleeders, they work good. now i have pedal. turned on engine and the pedal went to the floor. now i will start all over. thanks
SUCCESS!!!. 2011 Tacoma SR5 4x4. 131,000 miles. 2 mechanics and the guy at the parts store thought I was kidding (crazy). Been living with this for almost a year. Replaced master cylinder, new calipers and pads. No leaks anywhere............ever. Start the truck and the brake pedal goes to the floor, minimal brakes and barely drivable. Bled the brakes, same problem. Started the truck and the air bubbles in the tubing I used showed endless air bubbles in the left rear wheel cylinder. The rubbers were bone dry. Replaced the cylinder and am as good as new. Anyway, a HUGE Thank You from Vermont!
A follow up. A husband and wife were driving icy roads. Unfortunately, the brakes failed. There was nowhere to bail out. The left had a 50' ravine and to the right were boulders lining the road. In every state they would look at each other in desperation and she would scream with their pending demise. Every state except Vermont that is. The husband looked to his wife and said............................................ "Hold my beer and watch this".
I live in Vermont having same problem in my land cruiser 80's slam brake all the way to the floor to barely slow down. No leaking, full brake fluid
This video may have just saved what little bit of sanity I have left!!! I’m going to give this a shot. This has been a non stop problem. Thank you
Update?
Update?
I broke down and sold the damn thing to someone who wanted a project truck and bought a new car.
Bummer
@@jamespennington420. lolol
Hi Joe: I had the same problem on a 2003 Ford Escape. It was the most irritating problem I had ever experienced with hydraulic brakes. It occurred during the Alberta winter, & at 80 years of age I was not going to lie on the ground fiddling with brakes ! I took the Escape (V6 4X4) to three shops & NONE of them could fix it. 4 Wheel hydraulic brakes are not rocket science, so living in the middle of nowher( my county is 5500 square miles & the pop. density is .6(yes, point 6 persons per square mile !). One of my farmer friends let me use his farm shop to work on the Escape. I built jumper tubings to eliminate the ABS Same problem. . The pedal was soft & it went damned nearly to the floor on a medium hard stop. I drew a schematic of the hydraulic system & sat & swilled coffee & thought about it. I had my friend pump the brakes up & hold all the pressure he could on the pedal. No sign of a leak anywhere, & we had exchanged master cylinders, with no difference with either cylinder. The master cylinder cups were holding, with no leak down. My friend said " What we are seeing is impossible ! " When I was working on radar in the Air Force, a knowledgeable specialist once remarked to me that when you see the impossible you are overlooking something After some thought. I disconnected the lines from the distribution block , one at a time & threaded a bolt into each hole. The right rear would never feel hard, & after a series of pumps the pedal went lower & lower. I bought TWO rear cylinders & changed them both & the problem was solved.
Air can gain ingress to the cylinder but hydraulic fluid can't gain egress to the atmosphere if the cups are spongy.
Great clip Joe, & I have subscribed.
Cheers! Brian
Oh I like that Idea test each line for pressure that is out of the box thinking and I'm stealing the idea when I get a problem like that
Glad it worked out for you. Yes I also isolated and tested each line to find the problem. People comment here saying it’s impossible to not have it leaking fluid but that’s exactly what was happening.
Brian!
I am dealing with a very similar problem, my friend! And your statement about hydraulic fluid not leaking into the atmosphere but air being able to be sucked into the brake system is spot on! I am experiencing a very similar problem where I can not achieve a firm brake pedal with the engine on. There has got to be a part that is sucking in air. I am down to the front calipers. Everything else has been replaced. And the front calipers look and work fine. They have got to be sucking in air. Got to be. Wish me luck and thanks! 😊
What did u find out?@@jakebpau2396
if this is true and solves my problem im going to lose it lol i even checked those rubber cups in both of my rear wheels they looked a bit charred but no signs of leakage anywhere
This is the first and ununique video on the internet tha talks about my problem,, just save me 300 dollars that this mechanic shop wanted to charge to fix my problem,, thank you so much ,, you were describing my problem stap by stap,, keep up the good work educating people like us,,! Good blass you,,,
Follow up on my 98 Dodgeram 1500: Last thing I did was replace both rear brakes including wheel cylinders. One wheel cylinder had a little fluid drip out when I removed the rod that pushes the brakes against the drum. Although there was no fluid visible from the backside of the wheel plate and bleeder area, I am convinced it was the culprit just as Joe Stoe outlines here in this vid. Kudos to Joe! In the process of learning how to replace my own brakes front and rear, I not only got new brakes but learned a very good lesson on what to look for in the future before replacing the entire system. Thanks again Joe!
Thanks for the update! So often you only hear about the problem and not the solution. Glad it worked out!
1993 Isuzu Trooper. This is exactly my issue. Brake pedal goes almost to the floor before firmly engaging. Had master cylinder replaced twice (one leaked), had brake booster replaced twice (one aftermarket leaked on arrival). The mechanic said he did not know what the problem was, so after $1000 limped home with the same problem. After viewing your video, it appears that I might have the air in the wheel cylinder problem. I get in the car and the brake pedal feels normal, with only slightly goes down. Turn on the engine and immediately the pedal goes almost to the floor before engaging. Also, while driving, I will pump the brakes a little before stopping, and I hear a hissing sound. I need a better brake mechanic. Thanks for the video. Thumbs up!
Hello. I know its been two years since you post your comment. I'm having the same problem with yours on my 1997 Isuzu Rodeo. Did you get your brakes fixed? What did you do? I replace my master brake cylinder and brake booster but still having the same problem as yours.
@@etc6272 After going through the aftermarket repelacements twice for the master cylinder and the brake booster, and having the brake system bled twice (there was never any air in the system and the wheel cylinders were not leaking), The last "new" (but not OEM") brake booster seemed to engage the brakes a little better than before, but not like it should be. The brake pedal still goes way down before engaging, but it does work. I have even done some hard stops, and no problems. It is just an uncomfortable feeling having the pedal go down so far before engaging. The last brake shop person said that the brakes were the best that he could do and that I just needed to accept the "new normal" braking situation. The brakelight on the dash never came on. I did find one video where an old mechanic addressed the problem: the after market brake boosters are supposed to work the same as the OEM part, but in reality, the little rod that goes from the booster to engage the master cylinder is often not the same length and needs a special adjustmeent. This makes sense, but most repair people are either unaware of this or do not want to take the time to make this adjustment.
So, I accepted the "new normal" but always go through a mental drill for what to do if the brakes fail. I hope this helps. But now, I am have dash warning for the antilock brake system. Looking for parts and so far none fit. Good luck to you.
Very much appreciate you taking the time to make this video. That issue of how air could get into a brake system when it wasn't opened is now answered. Thanks
7th 9i😊uju9😊😊
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0
The problem I see here is if it can pull air why isn't there a sign of leaking fluid as it is under extreme hydraulic pressure?
I think Joe answered this question with him replacing the left rear brake cylinder. I can see how the cylinder was acting like a one way valve allowing air to enter the when the pedal was let up, but when pushing the pedal down the cylinder closed well enough to disallow fluid to leak out even under high pressure.
You can also isolate the front from the back by using vice grips with rubber hose over the teeth and clamp the rubber line in the rear and at each corner till you find the problem. That's how I found my front caliper was bound up and the peddle was going to the floor but it solved it once I freed up the caliper. Hope this helps others.
Yes That does work. I had to do that as well a few times!
I'm going to try that, thanks.
What teeth you talking about please help so I can do this test
@@slv_car_refinisher6864 the teeth on the vise grips need to be covered to not cut the lines
@@lyallfairburn1275 what rubber hose did you put on the teeth)
Sir, you are a Great American! My Son and I have been trying to figure out these exact symptoms on an 08 Chevy Suburban. Your video has been enormously helpful. Thank You.
Omg as a woman with a 2007 Toyota Tundra. Wow may have saved me lots of money. Thank you ❤
Merci Joe. Excellent pour les novices et tous les amateurs de mécanique automobile.
Thanks for sharing. Your delivery of the subject is concise and informative. I have learned the hard way that air infiltration is not always something you can physically see with our light - gathering sensory organs / eyeballs. These microscopic gaps in brake hardware go undetected by our human brain.
THE FIRST SIGN OF HOPE! after watching my boss & his workers confused as hell, working on his ute non stop for 3 days straight! This explains the mystery. THANK YOU for the Info bro.
God bless honest hard worker people who share his valuable experience with others ❤
Way back, I had a VERY SCARY incident in my '69 Mustang. I had some brake service done, and for the day I picked it up, and my drive to college, everything was fine. The way home turned into a nightmare - coming up to a stop light on the highway (red), I stepped on the brake pedal - right to the floor with no resistance! Coming up fast on other stopped cars, I slammed it down as hard as I could several times and STOOD on it for the last few feet. Stopped in time. I continued slowly ahead, giving myself a lot of room for stopping, and went directly to the garage that had done the work (only about 6 blocks away). I could barely get the story out as I was shaking so much, and they fixed the issue. Never went back there for service.
Wow! Glad it no one got hurt!
If not winter, if this happens slowly pull up on e brake, I also suggest dropping gears. My cavalier shifter has reverse, neutral, drive, 3,2,1. My brakes went while I was in town and hobbled home using e brake and dropping it to 3,2,1 to slow down.
Always lower gears to slow the car down, also open your door fully, hold door open the air resistance will slow it down, last but not least play a good song on the radio really loud to take off the edge...........
@@ironjohn5914 lmao 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Best advice ever!👍👍👍👍🕺🕺🕺
Just happened to me...thus morning. I Thank God that traffic was light. I for a moment had to look at what tree to hit. Eventually after slowing down into a up hill. I was able to stop....Lesson is, periodically do a pre trip on your Veh!!!
I had that problem, I kept driving the pick up like that , only one rear wheel had brake functioning , Until now that I hear your comment ,and I will fix it soon. Thank you.
😂 dam thats not funny but cmon pilgrim you should know dam better
Very informative and good video. I put the vehicle up on Jack stands and had a friend apply the brakes then I went and rotated the hubs and found the right rear brake cylinder was defective. Replaced the wheel cylinder and got it working. Thanks
Great!
I was having the same exact symptoms with no brakes while engine on. It ended up being the brake caliper guide pins. They were packed with greased up dirt. Would allow the clipper to slide freely. Cleaned up with fresh grease and got my brakes back.
Strange! The only time I encountered anything like that the problem was a bad bleed valve. The guy insisted the bleed valve was OK but changed it at my insistence and it solved the problem. Essentially, it was the same as what you describe: closing the valve stopped the fluid but it wasn't making a good seal and instead of drawing fluid into the piston on the pedal return, it was drawing air through the bleed valve.
This video confirmed exactly my brake issue on my 1994 4Runner. Thank you!
Hello Joe. I had this problem with a VW camper and a Renault Master motorhome.search the net but like you say, no answers. I fitted new master cylinder,new booster,bled the brakes to death but couldn’t solve the problem.Took it to a brake specialist who couldn’t solve the problem.
Found your video so I’m going to follow your advise. Thank, Rob, England.
Good luck I hope it helps. I don’t know why there aren’t more videos solving the problem that a lot of people have.
Thank you sir
I had the same problem and as soon as I seen your video it all became clear
You helped me fix my brakes
God bless
Glad it helped
Thank you for thinking enough of others to offer what you found. I will certainly give it a try.
Well thank you very much I really appreciate you took your time to explain that problem which is my brother's problems too, I saved your video and I'm going to send it to him, it seems to me like he has the same kind of problem with his 1995 Chevy Truck, he has good brakes with the engine off and bad breaks with the on, Thanks man it's like you said it on your Tutorial that no one took the time to explain what you explained, appreciate it big time because it's kind of frustrated with it😮
Thanks Joe! My 01 Ram 1500 is a rust bucket and wheel cylinders are the cure for the problem
I'm having the same problem with a 68 charger .I've replaced everything new ,booster master,all lines, front disc brakes & yes recently replaced the rear drum brakes including the wheel cylinders & still goes to floor when running. Although today I noticed that if I try pumping a few inches from the floor it starts to build pressure. But when I let off the pedal & go to pump again,it's back to the floor. I'm glad you got lucky & fixed yours. This is driving me crazy.
Wow that's crazy. Did you find the problem?
update?
Thank You So Much ... !!!
Thank You for All Your Homework ... !!
No One has Been Able to Tell Me Ither ... !!
But I've Just Learned A Great Pointer from You ... !!
Thanks Again ... !!
So there might be an oddball check ball in those. It's to keep fluid pressure from going all the way back to the mc, so that the drum pads stay closer to the drum. If the check ball is not working, the fluid flows back, and thus more fluid is needed the next time to actuate the rear brake.
What manufacturer?
Is the check ball inside the wheel cylinder?
Very good, always check the basics. I work at a shop and we had the same problem with a corvette it would pull air in through a bad piston seal in the rear .
You just saved my day. Had this truck for 2 days now.
Great!
Sweet!! Thanks For Your No Quit position! Way To Go!! Also, Thanks for Caring and Sharing!!
I have the same problem with w123 230e auto shift. With the engine off, the brake pedal is stiff. As soon as engine runs and brakes are pressed, the pedal sinks with a slight increase in revs until the bottom of the pedal's stroke. The scenario repeats and brakes must be pumped to stop the car. Very dangerous indeed.
This video helps a lot in eliminating minors first. Grateful as ever!
I had a quite similar problem, long pedal travel and ABS working on the road, car passed MOT, I suspected master cylinder etc, but I bought a preloved ABS block and bingo.!
So the used ABS unit solved your problem? Great!
Thanks! Having the same issue with my 2004 Xterra. No visible leaks, but a poor pedal. Nothing to lose swapping the wheel cylinders. Cheers.
I have the same problem exactly on my 93 Typhoon. After replacing the same components that you did (except booster) I was about replace the booster. I read how much of a pain it is to replace on these vehicles, so I scanned youtube for an easier way to replace it. I came upon your video and decided to try your fix... I will let you know if it works when I am done.
did it work
@@blesdavis7637 He died
Actually the booster change isn’t that difficult to do.
@@LegendaryWokeyup, lack of braking power.
Thank you I have the same problem on a 98 gmc 1500. Replaced the master cylinder same problem checked all wheel cylinders just as you did same problem air in left rear. Petal still goes to floor will change wheel cylinder and see if that fixes it. Glad I found your video.
Great, let me know if you get it solved!
THANKS Joe, for sharing! It's one of those problems that is good to know, especially if you HAVE it. It's surprising that even experienced mechanics would not know how to find the underlying cause.
I had this problem! I watched this video it saved my mind lol I changed both cylinders fixed the problem thank you!
Hello everyone, let me tell you the problem, when you have done everything under the sun to try to correct spongy brake pedal, the problem is the( Combinations Valve) it is designed when there is low pressure to the rear or to the front of the brake system, proportioning valve will cut off pressure to the part being bleed.!. It thinks there is a leak.!.. It is a safety measure in the design to combination Valve where you will not lose all breaks if a leak occurs.!. There is a little tool, that you can get on line, ( that's screws down in the brake light indicator ON the Combination Valve), to hold it in place .!... while you bleed the brakes, this will allow equal pressure to all wheels while bleed, when done bleeding reinstall brake light indicator combination valve.!. Try it friends...
This was not my problem this time but I’ve had it happen in the past and I used a small pick to move the valve back in place. Good tip
Can you explain where I can find this?
@@barbmiracleinside the proportioning valve, not all brake systems have them - they are to divert fluid to the rear and front at different rates
What year vehicles are you referring to? I have a 1997 dodge ram. Can you show a picture?
Seems like my pedal returns to the normal position but the brake lights are staying on. Why?
I would never have thought to change that. Great informative video thank you. It’s one to remember for future troubleshooting
I had exactly the same problem with a Mitsubishi L200. When no brake fluid leaks out this can be very misleading and can make diagnosing the problem much more difficult. These pistons appear to be able to operate like a one way valve.
good info to keep in mind just in case I ever run across that problem.
I have the same issue on a 2003 Ford Taurus. I have replaced everything with new parts and even deleted the ABS. I have pressure bled the brakes numerous times to no avail . My brakes are very spongy and go to the floor slowly when I crank the engine. This car has the bubble flare fittings , and you can't purchase a cap to fit the end of the metal lines, so I sawed the metal ends off the rubber hoses , since I had replace them with new ones. I purchased two solid plugs that were 1/8 27 TPI threads. I already had a 1/8 27 tap. This is a grease jerk tap. I drilled the brass end where I sawed the hose off with a 21/64 drill bit and tapped it for my plugs. When tapping , be sure and leave 6 or 7 threads exposed or it will be to loose since it is a tappered tap. I had to make these since I needed the female bubble flare ends to cap the lines. Hope this helps someone to be able to isolate each wheel.
Yeah, I remember changing those with my dad. I have this issue. And I am about to check those rear cylinders.
Exact same problem on my 1991 F150. Original rear pistons, no leaks at all. But when I slid the boots off, 30 years of rust and brake fluid crud came out. Replaced both pistons and the petal got much stiffer. Having same problem with my 2000 4Runner and good to hear some validation to my theory.
Have this problem now with my 97 yukon. Thanks for the tips. Before i bought it, the previous owner had all brakes, calipers, and rotors replaced, then it sat for 2 years. Never said anything about a brake problem until i went to get it, had it towed lol. I can hear air hissing when i pump the brakes, i believe it's sucking in air like you'd mentioned.
Did you fix it? Was the booster hissing?
Also sometimes you can tighten up the bleeder this video helps you but if the bleeder doesn't seal properly it can suck in air I have had it happen to me a couple of times in my lifetime you tighten up the bleeder screw but the bleeder screw is not sealing correctly I put my car on the concrete driveway and the next morning I had a small puddle brake fluid on the driveway it was a new wheel cylinder the bleeder screw was defective you could also have a problem if you don't tighten up the bleeder screw tighten up especially on an old wheel cylinder when you are bleeding the brakes
Yes I agree a bad bleeder will cause a problem. I put a little grease around the bleeder when I was isolating each part of the system to find the air leak.
The angle of taper is steeper in the after.market bleeders. They do not seat correctly !
Your great video led me to isolate the four corners of my car. I discover that the new calibres I had installed were boxed incorrectly and I had put them on the wrong sides with the bleeder valve faced down. Once I swapped them and bled them the brake pedal firmed right up. Thanks
Thank you so much for posting this video. Had the same exact problem with my 87 Olds 442. Loads of air out of the left rear drum brake. Hard pedal when engine off. Goes to the floor when engine is on. I subscribed and hit the like button. Anything to help you since you helped me👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Great! Glad it helped!
Great diagnosis. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with the rest of us.
Had same issue with my Son's 07 Silverado & after replacing almost all brake parts, bleeding, bleeding , & replacing rear brake wheel seals ECT. pedal goes close to floor with engine running. I'll give a try with motor running & go from there. Thanks for posting this .
Update?
I have the exact same problem in a 94 silverado. Been down all the same avenues.
Master cyl, brakes hoses, new calipers. Bled bled and bled and until I watched this video, I didn't think much of all the air I was getting out of the right rear wheel cyl. I thought that was just air still purging from the master cyl swap.
I will try a new wheel cyl and def update the results in a couple days. Thank you. Pray this gets it . I'm out of ideas.
UPDATE: I teplaced both rear wheel cylinders and it did not help. After more research, ive learned that the abs dump valve may have trapped air that will not bleed and an abs delete will be happening. I hope that works.
Yes, the ABS is often the culprit!
@@joestoe1610 Update to the update. One of the new wheel cyls was sucking air. Not leaking, just sucking air and wouldn't bleed. Had to exchange for another one and that fixed the problem. Although I did delete the abs . Looks cleaner under the hood and don't have to worry about that being an issue in the future.
Excellent.....before the days of ABS and BOOSTERs, be easier to find.
Sometimes, simple is the answer. Great job.
Thanks!
Very helpful!!! I’m having the same issue left rear constantly bleeding air out. Thank you for the video 👍🏼
You look like Jerry Springer. You have solved my problem. I woiil try this. Thank you, because it was scary to have the pedal stuck to the floor!
Yea it’s not a good situation.
Bought my son his first truck, a 2007 tacoma. Have bled and bled with power bleeder. Super hard pedal. As soon as I turn truck on, pedal goes to the floor. Been working for days on it. No leaks at wheel cylinders in rear but it's getting air in somewhere. Nobody but you talked about it.
Hi Joe Stoe,
Thanks for sharing your experience with the brake pedal issue when the engine is started. It's valuable insights like yours that help us troubleshoot and solve problems. My parents have a 2013 Multivan, and this problem sounds familiar. I'll definitely be checking your suggestion on my van as soon as I get home today. Appreciate the heads up and any additional tips you might have!
Best regards,
Oh yes this helped. I pushed out the piston on both brake cylinders recently while changing my drum brakes. I have the same issue as you. I probably need to replace both cylinders.
THANK YOU - my Saturn2006 VUE just lost braking - went into a soft brake mode
so .. I had exactly the same problem with drive rear cylinder ay thank for your efforts !
I gave my son my 08 Silverado and about a month ago the pedal got mushy. After he snapped 2 bolts on the front wheel bearing drifting around in the snow, I replaced the entire front brakes. A week ago he tells me he has to keep adding brake fluid. Well it's winter and with the snow I couldn't find a leak. So I put a new master cylinder in. STILL a mushy pedal. Pump it twice and they are as firm as can be. Only thing I can think of is a bad wheel cylinder and the adjuster not working. I HATE DRUM BRAKES!!!!
thanks bro..I was looking everywhere an couldn't find the problem..now I know where to look
Did it work ?
Start by isolating each part starting with the master cylinder and work your way back
Did you happen to see any brake fluud on the backside wheel hub assembly? Mine is wet there, so maybe that's it.
I will try that before replacing the booster. Many thanks:
Yes much easier than replacing the booster. It’s rarely the booster and you can look up tests for that
I had stuck piston then done the bleeding after the fix did it few times but just felt soft still then did it with the engine running went around twice start the back then front and that made them work better
Thank U So Much U Explain My Problem Perfectly...I Too was going Crazy With This Problem Looked All Over the Internet...But Thanks to U I Really Nailed it..Thank U....MM
I have a 96 S10, I just can't get a normal brake pedal travel. I replaced the master cylinder, power brake booster, Rear wheel cylinders, rebuilt the front Disc calipers, New Disc pads, new brake shoes, Disc Rotors, Brake Drums, and all new brake hardware front and rear. I replace all these parts because they needed to be replaced. But when it came time to bleed the system. I just can't get a normal Pedal. When the engine is off. The brake pedal is hard, but when the engine is on, the pedal is probably a good 1" to 1-1/2" from the floor. Get this. I took my truck to the local Chevy dealer, and they told me this normal. The brake pedal was normal before I started this job. I pressure bled, and buddy bled the system before I took it to Chevy. The next step I'll try, is to isolate the master cylinder, to see the what pedal does without the whole brake system. All suggestions are welcomed. Thank you
Sounds a lot like all the stuff I just replaced on my S10. It is possible that you have a bad part even though it’s new. Try bleeding the brakes with the engine running, that’s what worked for me and how I found the bad wheel cylinder. Or there could be just a little more air stuck somewhere that bleeding with the engine running and making use of the brake booster will get it out. Isolating each part in the system is also a good idea to try.
Forget the dealer, they don’t know about the older vehicles. If you have to take it somewhere, find a good local shop that works on older vehicles.
👍 that's a strange one. Must have drove you crazy. Thanks for sharing
It did.
This is the exact problem I have! I was told that my brake boosterbis bad, but if that was the case, I would have had a hard brake pedal. I'm gonna check my rear drums.
A bad brake booster might be it though. In my 1980 Firebird that was exactly the problem. A torn diaphragm was the cause. Normally engine vacuum evacuates the area both in front of and behind the diaphragm. When the brake pedal is pressed, atmospheric pressure is allow to enter the space behind the diaphragm, forcing the diaphragm forward into the vacuum side, giving a boost to the brake pedal.
Without a vacuum the brakes are not boosted, resulting in a hard pedal.
Did it work for you?
Thank you for making a great video!
Hope alls well.
Awesome got the same problem with my gmc 07 Sierra
Check the ABS unit for air too.
I changed my master cylinder today to have that exact same problem. Thank you so much for the video bro!
Did u fix it.
Yes!
Place clamps on three of the four flexible brake hoses, and then pump the brakes, which will engage only the brake that is not clamped. If the pedal force is good, then you found one good brake. Continue with the other brakes by moving the three clamps to isolate a different brake and repeat until you identify the faulty brake. Also, it's best to clamp the flex hose at the end that is furthest from the caliper, as the flex hose itself might have the leak or simply be weak.
Do you do this with car running or not? I have caliper in all 4 corners. Would this still apply? Is the faulty one going to produce a soft/ mushy pedal then? And if so, replace caliper? Thanks
Perfection!!!! You still loved my problem. Now I can finally move down the list to another project. Thanks so much!!
Solved
Thank you for the lord of god been wondering for my jeep as well, did everything you did, change master cylinder, bleed like 100x, thinking about the booster but diagnosis says otherwise was paused on that till this video
Did you find the problem?
This makes a lot of sense. I think my problem started happening after I rebuild one of my rear calipers.
Check the calipers are on the correct side.
i finally found the answer. having same problem with a honda civic 1987 si and crx i change the booster and master cilinder and when i started the engine pedal goes to the floor pain in the butt. but i keep tracking this issue until i fix it doing that. you won't see any leaks at all. but that is the problem.
I don't recommend using grease on the bleeders. The fluid will dilute it very quickly. I clean the threads and wrap them a few times in teflon tape. Won't suck air in when you bleed and also won't rust sieze on you next time they need to servicing years down the line.
aint nobody got time for that sh t
Good idea, thanks. The grease trick has been working for me for a long time though, haven’t had rust problems yet.
There is a special grease made exactly for this purpose.
@@trailerparkcryptoking5213 would you tell me what it is?
Replaced master cyl, booster, passenger side caliper (leaking) on a 98 Dodge ram 1500 (new caliper bleeder is up ) .....before doing this no warning indicators....bled breaks twice got a firm pedal engine off. Engine on, same problem at first... pedal all way to floor.
Pumped a few times got a firm pedal with engine on after a minute. Put in reverse to back out of driveway and pedal goes to floor...no brakes.
Drove down a less traveled road, stopped ok at a turnoff. turned around and no pedal again ..no brake! Drove back 1/2 mile to my driveway....stopped ok at intersection before turning off to my drive way, made a right turn into drive way and pedal again to floor...no brakes. Almost hit garage door, stopped by BBQ pit. Bled system again engine off , good pedal. Tried same drive test again same results except used E brake to save BBQ pit this time.:) Now getting ABS and Brake light warning.
Master cyl full, no leaks apparent. Last brake job was 10,000 miles back.....shoes all good....little wear.
Mike
Bled brakes again today 3rd time , little to no air bubbles noted. Solid pedal until put in reverse to back up and then go forward I lose the pedal again. About ready to put new rear wheel cylinders in at this point , they aren't expensive...also a new drivers side front wheel caliper just to eliminate that possibility.
ABS and Brake light still comes on after clearing with my scanner device. Beginning to suspect a bad ABS module and or pump.
I saw your solution above, glad you got it sorted out!
Hello from Norway! - Thanks!
Could this happen to brake calipers as well, or just "wheel cylinders" that are found on drum brakes, I wonder. I also don't get why the brakes don't go the floor with the car off. It should still be leaking, I would think.
thanks for the help, like you said no one else addressed this problem, good job. thanks rich. 182 Honda civic wagon
Thanks I'm having same problem but not seeing any leaks I'm going to try that before buying a master cylinder
I had the same problem for awhile I solve it after ofter watching your suggestions today thumbs 👍
Thanks man it's a great video. Very informative.❤
Thanks for the mystery solve!
Glad it helped!
I just did my rear brakes, all new parts, bags of parts and new shoes. Bled a half gallon of brake fluid out. Bench bled my master again. Pedal to the floor. But I still haven't bled to the front wheels. I saw one guy who plugged the master ports to see if it was good. My last step will be to take out the ABS. Looks very hard since I will have to learn how to bend brake lines.
Well you almost had my problem solved, the one I'm working on I did the same routine that you did except this one is 03 zr2 . Replaced the booster twice, master cylinder twice went through 2 gallon brake fluid still no brake pedal when motor is running.
The only reason I haven't had this problem in 50 years is because I always snap off the bleeders and have to change the wheel cylinders anyway. Lol. But I will remember this and appreciate the advice!
@jeffbrown3963: Sorry, but i don't quite get it, snap of the bleeders?
@@johnpalma7265 I put a wrench on the bleeder to loosen it but it breaks clear off.
@@jeffbrown3963 Got it, thanks
I have the same exact issue with my Civic. I just changed the driver side rotor, caliper, and pads and my pedal sinks to the floor with the engine on and before I did anything my pedal was perfect. Maybe it's air that's causing it but I dont know. I can't drive anywhere in the condition it's in. I should have left everything alone and took my car to the shop to my brakes done. I'm not happy right now, I am not a mechanic but I've brake jobs before.
It’s most likely air if you replaced the caliper. Make sure you have the correct caliper on that side as they are interchangeable and if wrong you’ll never get the air out. Also bleed the whole system not just that wheel. Yes It’s a pain
Thanks for posting a video on this.
Been goin thru this for a week. Going to try right now
Question: how is the wheel cylinder leak related to the engine running or not?
The vacuum assist brake booster behind the master cylinder will almost pull it down to the floor when the engine is running if there is any air in the lines that will compress. When you press the brake pedal , it opens the check valve and allows the vacuum assist.
Wish I knew this before I put a new cylinder and brake booster in the truck now time to try this
You can also try gravity bleeding. There is probably air somewhere in there. Don’t forget to bench bleed the master cylinder.
Great video. I am having a similar issue. Pedal is hard. Does not sink. Start engine. Pedal sink... But I am not sure I am with you on the diagnosis (in my case), as I don't see how air can enter a cylinder while there is pressure on the pedal. (But when you let go of the pedal, then yes!). My brake system seem to can take my foot pressure, but not foot pressure + vacuum assist?? If I am not losing brake fluid the master cylinder must leak internally.
Curious if you solved your problem, I’m experiencing something similar- I can build pressure after a few pumps, whether with the engine on and driving or engine off. Yours sounds like brake booster from what I’ve found-
@@roberth9188 I just put in a brand new brake master cylinder... and it did not solve it.
Thank you for this video on my the rear left kept getting air and come to find out I watch this video I changed it out and it fix my brake pedal 💯
thanks i have same issue good bless
Just did an ABS delete on a 1990 Dodge Cummins. After bleeding with the engine off, truck was stopping, but pedal was soft. All my brakes are newer - to include a rear wheel disc brake conversion.
OK, got it: Bleed the system again, this time with engine running. Thanks!
your prop valve needs changing. disc/disc.
Yes, this. You need to change the proportioning block as well.
@@joestoe1610 I got rid of the proportioning block entirely. The lines go straight from the master cylinder to the brakes (into a brass T for the front wheels).
ruclips.net/video/s6JI3w_-WII/видео.html
It’s simple to change out. Without the proportioning block is your braking force now equal front to back? Seems the rears would have too much braking power and would skid before the fronts?
@@joestoe1610 They feel perfect now.
I tied a piece of 2×4 to the back of the brake pedal and it solved the problem. Going to go for a test drive now. LOL.
Why would engine running or not running make a difference in this case?
Having the assistance of the booster.
@@joestoe1610 I get that but if there's no hydraulic pressure doesn't matter if you have boost or not.
I'll have to check that out.
Thats my problem. Bled three times with solo speed bleeders, they work good. now i have pedal. turned on engine and the pedal went to the floor. now i will start all over. thanks
From libya thank you joe