Step 1 - Buy a used (well specced) Carrera/T; Rear axle steer, PTV+, Upgraded Speakers Step 2 - Spend $10K on a flame shooting ECU tune & exhaust Step 3 - You're now the coolest rich dentist in your town.
@@BrHH772 So many GT3s in LA and even Northern Virginia that people only look at GT3 RS's or the models with numbers on the doors like the Heritage Targa, Sport Classic and S/T (when it comes out). Actually the GT4 RSs are now the thing, because they are LOUD.
Step 1, don't buy a car for what other people think Step 2, but a 981 s/gts to enjoy the most balanced, nimble and sporty car porsche makes for a fraction of the cost. Or go for the gts 4.0, you don't need to buy a GT3 for an NA engine. There will always be something better. Porsche have made an art out of making you pay more for a few options. The 911 looks great, but it's too big and more of a GT car. If that's what u want then have at it.
There are many "honest" reviews out there of the various Porsche 911s but no one does so with such well articulated depth as you fellows do. It is really hard to express all the paradoxes around the 911 and all that within the context of the complicated Porsche mythology. Outstanding review.
If it's something you REALLY want, take a look in the pre-owned market (where smart shoppers go anyway). These cars are exceptionally well engineered and you barely notice the years. I once bought a 5 year old C4S for under $40,000. I owned it for 6 years and loved every mile. I only sold it because I wanted to try something different.
@@tranc3porter : Doesn't have to be a C4S. That was just an example. But where are you looking? I just found a gorgeous 2017 S Cabrio for under $60,000 (with only 50,000 miles) on Autotrader.
This video helped me to finally understand the 911 philosophy and now things make perfect sense. Love how you guys bring more to your car reviews beyond stats and drag racing.
@@chrisharris4223 ~ The stereo. The engine and the exhaust note. With a chorus, of road noise just like the Germans/engineers intended. Keep it simple. ☺️
@@pepper0075 We all have to prioritize. And as much as I love music all genres. My main focus would be driving that 911 Porsche if I was be so lucky to own such a fine automobile. Okay thinking 6 to 8 months of ownership, maybe a stereo with six speakers preferably Dynaudio or Meridian. With a kicking Mark Levinson amplifier. Yes is a bit much to ask 110,000 and not even a decent stereo. I guess it push came to shove you could always get a boombox stick it in the back without deleted seat option. Sweet! Now that's rolling.☺️
To list a few more major upsides to owning a Porsche sports car: - excellent resale value - many specialist workshops to choose from - many club events and a great community - many aftermarket parts - dealers/workshops are global and generally not too far apart These are some of the reasons (including all the stuff you guys mentioned) I keep coming back this brand and I just can’t find a replacement.
Ahh makes sense, here in North America they are direct competitors. 911 is substantially more $$. Only difference is the nice dealer experience you get at Porsche, other than that the vette is a superior, I have a 2014 C7 Stingray with the Z51 package. I eat all the normal 911’s for breakfast
You know many of us drive 911's for the perfectly subdued status you describe and demean. The 911 is a perfect car. I don't want drama. I want automotive perfection every time I step inside...
@@pan4632 Not for me because I won't buy a car like the M2 with a giant screen. For me I will have the gauges or nothing. Aesthetics is important to to me so what you said doesn't apply to me. I decide, not them.
@@Digiphexso what will you get once everything is screens? Newer 911 prototypes have been seen with all-digital clusters. The end of an era. And then what will you do once all of the good old reliable cars with buttons have all faded away to time?
@@DigiphexThe instrument panel screen will show you whatever gauges you prefer, and they won't look all that different if that's the style you choose. There are good, sensible reasons for IP screens (separate from those for infotainment, which are getting a bit silly.
@@unclebob4964 Porsche does spoil you. They make the best automatic (even if they say PDK is not technically an automatic, but an "automated dual-clutch transmission"), and their manuals today are all excellent and easy to use. The T's short-shift kit and stubby lever make it even better.
I've already ordered my TuxMats and expect to score a great deal on Cyber Monday for a 911 T allocation. Great that Porsche doesn't unnecessarily dilute the 911.
You should hopefully get a good price, discounts available across the 911 range in UK as savage depreciation is hitting Porsche hard. Hope you’re getting similar deals in USA.
@@cp4512 We don’t. US market is teflon and market fluctuations flow right off the back of desirable Porsches’ values. I’m pretty sure my well-optioned 718 Cayman S is still worth what I paid for it two years ago.
I've been using RUclips regularly for about two years now and you guys are my favorite. You get to the important points almost immediately, your comments are insightful and concise, and, providing perspective from two different perspectives only adds to the enjoyment. By the way, I was the former owner of a 1973 911T a long time ago and now have my sights on a new base 911. Loved the review.
Get the modern T while you can. The manual T just puts a smile on your face even if you're not driving on a back road or even if you didn't get deviated stitching and leather-covered air vents with alcantara headliner and carbon fiber roof with the aerokit. (i.e., if you want fancy stuff on your 911 to impress the poseurs, get an S ,GTS, Turbo S or GT car)
I was watching some of your earliest reviews yesterday, and it really pleasant to see how far your videos have come, going from decent to great or awesome. Another great review from Savage Geese!
I love the 992 but I love the 718 more. The 718 is more raw and feels like a sports car all the time. The 992 has also gotten so expensive that I would be afraid to drive it, let alone take it to an autocross or race track. It’s an amazing car that would mostly sit in the garage.
Don’t worry, prices now falling fast in Europe. Investors are just dumping cars, so at least enthusiasts can get cheap cars and aren’t afraid of using them anymore. Dealers are even giving good discounts on new cars which has been unheard of for the last 5 years!
I've DD'd my 992 for 3 years and feel the opposite. What I love about it is just how "normal" and unintimidating it can feel. Great visibility, spacious cabin, surprisingly practical, 30mpg on road trips. I've even got my dog's car seat in the back! I love the 718 as well, but I think it's a worse daily. Worse visibility, feels more claustrophic with wall behind you, can't just stash items behind you. Both great sports car options either way.
On the note of all the engineers from different brands having one: performance/engineering aside, it's just a very grown-up looking, mature sports car. Even the LC500 is flashy by comparison, or really any of the competition where the engine's up front. Porsche's sports cars stand out AND blend in just the right amount. It's a matter of suiting the character of enthusiasts who've mellowed out and may not want the attention a corvette or whatever brings.
People will probably disagree with this take but the 911 is how miatas are viewed. Like the acronym miata is always the answer, the 911 the rich man's best choice for a do everything car as well. Its fast, it handles, overall reliable, it can daily or track. But it's just that the people who can buy these cars kind of treat them as a trophy and dont really use them to the fullest.
Funny you say that! Here in the UK 911s are driven by grandads and never see them driven quickly. Same for caymans. I think this is what puts me getting one..that and the price lol Is a GR86 more fun than this 🤔
Most track days are dominated by Miatas, 911s, and Vettes. I just had my 30K service after 2yrs of ownership. The rear tires were almost slick due to all the hooning about I partake in.
It's interresting that Jack says the 911 is better than the Cayman, but is the 992 T really better than a 718 GTS 4.0? Lower powered turbo vs 400 NA HP? 7 speed vs 6 speed manual? 1580Kg vs 1480Kg? 1 trunk vs 2 and that before you compare the costs.
@@cezarcocu1031 Agree - except the new 718 prices have spiked up and a new Cayman GTS 4.0 base price is now more than a new 911 S just a few years ago, even if it's still $10k cheaper than a base Carrera (which is not available with manual or sport PASM or many of the goodies on the 718 GTS 4.0).
As someone who had a new 992 base, the car is a wonderful all year round "practical" sports car. Having said that, after a few months, I started to feel why did I spend all this money for this and why does it feel boring. I then lucked out and bought one of the last new 718 Spyders and then realized what a Porsche should feel like. Other than that, I have nothing bad to say about the 992. I would buy another one, especially the T in a heartbeat.
What strikes me about the modern 911 is that the speed is so effortless. Even the base model is a 300kph car. The power, traction and handling are superb and seem to get better with every generation. Almost all the bad manners and complaints have been addressed. Every quirk exercised or converted to an advantage. Rear engine which used to crash you is now over the axle so it launches like a steam catapult, for example. At this point, it’s an appliance for speed, for better or worse.
I have exactly the same conclusion, but came to it some other way - earlier this year I ordered 718 Boxster GTS 4.0 as I wanted to have a toy and believed that it’s the best value for money option in the Porsche sports cars range - I’ve never driven any 911 at that moment, tbh I didn’t even drive the GTS 4.0 itself then, I made a decision based on the test drive of Boxster T in which I fell in love. Two months after that I took part in Porsche Experience event and was frightened that driving 911 will ruin my experience and make me change my order and actually buy 911 instead. But when I actually got a chance to drive 718 GTS 4.0 and whole non-GT line-up of 911s back-to-back on track I knew that it’s actually the opposite and the 718 is the EXACT answer to what I’ve been looking for and non-GT 911 simply isn’t. Don’t get me wrong - 992 is super capable car, actually if someone would ask me which one handles better, I would say that it’s 911, but at the same time you just feel like car is doing everything for you, there is no fun, there is no engagement - as Jack said it’s so perfected and smooth that you actually don’t feel anything and I don’t think that’s what sports cars are all about.
I did and felt exactly the same as you. First own a new base 992 for 3 years. Love it but later found it lack of passion. Got one of the last new 718 Spyder this year. Fall in love with it completely. To me, 718 Spyder is such a passion car with much soul than non-GT 992. I might sold 992 and replace it with a 991.2 GT3 as a more hardcore car for track day use.
I have similar experience with yours. Test drove a 992 base convertible, exciting but got bored after 5 mins. Then tested drove a T, I was smiling all the time. My T is arriving next June. It should be one of the last 992.1s.
I don't even care about Porsches, but this is just a terrific review. You've provided what any viewer would want to know, from inside or outside the Porschephile community. You remain on your trajectory to dominate as the thinking person's RUclips car review channel.
I specced out a new T, and it came to $160K and it was far from fully loaded. Just nice seats, and some interior color. For me, I’ve been eyeing the 993 generation because I love the way it looks, and a 911 will never be a daily for me. Yes, the cabin is pretty antiquated, but there’s a lot more emotion than in the newer cars.
@@_que The obvious downside is VERY expensive maintenance that adds up over time, but odds are you can drive an older one for a bit less because the price curve bottomed out a long time ago.
@@retrograde11 The advantage of all the pre-991 cars is you can actually access the engine by opening the lid. And in the case of the 993, 964, and older classic air-cooled 911s, you can access the ENTIRE engine.
Porsche has become such a benchmark in driving dynamics and exterior looks, that they literally take the formula "if ain't broke, don't fix it." They know their customers so well - loyal customers, including new, will pay a hefty price on their options package no matter what the cost. And since the benchmark is so high and almost standardized in their brand DNA, the term that Savagegeese used in the video, "how do they make something so remarkably unremarkable," is pretty much the best way we describe it at this point because the benchmark meter is just that high. We can really take any other car at this price point and say it's a better value, but it's heritage you pay for at Porsche if anything alongside the best in class driving dynamics. That's really all I can think of. Anything they mess up for the next year model, will be sensitive enough for customers to say it has turned to crap, and anything new and minuscule will be underwhelming. That's just how it's been for generations for Porsche. It's hard to put in words because you need to experience it in order to really understand it, and the only way to do that is paying a shiny penny to get into the Porsche club. That is why most Porsche owners will just say, "you need to just experience it before you make a judgment about the brand"!
the 996, I would say, is actually the generation that sparked controversy which stems from its unconventional styling cues which porsche enthusiasts gone up in arms for. But porsche did what they did best: its timeless Silhouette and usable performance
When the Boxster and Cayman went from flat 6 in the 981 to Turbo 4 with the 718, and even when the 991.2 featured turbos on reduced-displacement flat-6s on all Carrera models, the Porsche purists went bonkers and drove used 981 and 991.1 prices up (for a while). Despite everything else about the cars being best-in-class. The beauty of the base 992 engine (in the Carrera and Carrera T) is it has all the advantages of turbos (usable torque throughout the rev range) while sounding and making power like a normally-aspirated motor, sounding great at high rpm's. I realized what I had missed for 7 years with my 718 Boxster S, which was otherwise a fantastic car.
Not everybody is happy to pay the largest premium in the industry, even though many aspects of Porsche are best in class. I remember reading some Porsche models have 30% margin, I think that's way too much. To each their own though.
I'm in the market for a Porsche and a 992 Carrera T with a manual, bucket seats, and minimal options is the one I would buy. If I could afford one. So I'll just settle for a 718 Cayman S.
@@isserdigan2835 Lack of allocations, indefinite wait times, and markups. I'm not paying effectively $20-30k for a 4.0 GTS over an S for a just the flat 6 engine while I could spec all the performance goodies and the Sport Design Package on an S. So it'll handle just like a 4.0 GTS and actually weigh even less. Furthermore it's not even guaranteed I'd get a GTS 4.0 built for me before they're inevitably discontinued even if I got on a wait list. Most dealers get 3-4 GTS 4.0s PER YEAR. Once a quarter. If I'm buying a flat 6, it's gonna be a 911, full stop. I'd rather have a Porsche now than not now, and when the 718 goes EV, I'm jumping on the 911 train in a few years.
Porsche is having savage depreciation across the range in the UK at the moment, even 911 GT cars. We’ve seen over 20% drop in the last few months on second hand cars at dealers and solid discounts on new cars, and it hasn’t bottomed out yet. Great news for enthusiasts who want to enjoy their cars, very bad news for investors who hide them away in a garage away waiting for prices to go up.
It's not really regular depreciation though, it's just the expected market adjustment following a long period of static prices due to the chip shortage, COVID, and the Ukraine situation causing car shortages. They've dropped 20% because they hadn't been dropping at all in the previous 2 years - and THAT was the odd bit. They should continue to depreciate more normally now. (At least, normally for Porsche GT products, which is less than most of the market.)
I have a 18 gt3. These 992s have gone sterile. I’ve had every type 911 since my 993 TT (996 GT3, 997.1 GT3, 997.2 S PDK, 991.1 50th anniversary, 991.2 GT3. This is the first time I don’t feel like getting the next one (992) But I do think the people who want a manual should buy this car instead of a gt3 manual. If they want involvement this is the car. You get the GT3 which is the track car the race car for the street the Cup car that’s $100,000 less and you get the SLOWER version? No!
At 11.35 you mention the car choices of auto executives around the world. The fact that they go for the 911 speaks volumes for what the chaps in Zuffenhausen have achieved. Congrats on yet another engaging and witty review. They are so entertaining that I'm working my way through your back catalogue of videos even those that feature cars that aren't available here in Europe
I owned a 992 T for the first half of this year, and sadly came to agree with Mark. I then found out that the days of waiting and paying over for a new C8 Z06 are over and they can be had for around the same price. It is a better, more exciting car in almost every way. I wish it came in a manual and I wish it didn't suck gas, but unlike the 992 T, every drive feels special.
The options you note are also not included on ANY other 911. (leather, carbon, interior etc). Things this car does include that others don't: 21/20 inch S wheels, sport chrono, PASM, sport exhaust, manual trans, thinner glass, lighter battery, agate gray trim, painted interior pieces if chosen, etc. ALL things either not available or up charge on a normal Carrera or Base...
My dream 911 is as follows. For one, it should be mid-engined. If a 911 used the chassis of a 718, with the front end of a GT3 (double wishbones) and a narrower, relatively straight body like the 996/997. Bring back a legit base model using this 3.0L without the turbos. The mid engine chassis with a smaller 911 shaped body using a bit more aluminum would be at least 100kilos lighter than this at 3200lbs. A 3.0 with 300-350hp NA would be quite quick and fun. Then the Carrera S can utilize the 718 GTS 4.0L with a torquier high revving NA engine. This is where the passion will come from. Now that the petrol 718 is on life support just migrate the 911 to its flawless chassis and epic packaging. The 911 deserves to have a legit lift back for luggage like a cayman. Then have a base 911 turbo run this 3.0 in top 500hp spec and the turbo S run a turbo 4.0.
Nice review. You guys pretty much nailed it in your analysis. I love the 911 and own a base 991.2 Carrera. I am not a track guy so the car has plenty of performance for my needs. Thanks. 😎
I test drove this vs the LC and i bought the LC because i felt a lot more w/ that car. The 911 was great but next to what you just said this car is the civic of the wealthy. So in that respect...nope. BUT yea i felt nothing wrong w/ the car. It was great. Some times you find great products you just don't care for, for what ever reason Its like me and peanutbutter and chocolate. I never choose it but if you gave me a bite id probably really enjoy it. BUT I NEVER CHOOSE IT!
And yea your rite about spending more money to get the car you want. Jesus i was at 160 on a 2CS 7MT and i wanted a GT2 but there were no allocations for one. And that was a stretch for me so it was really no choice at all but had it been id still need to find the allocation for one. So that's another requirement for access.
I have a lowly 996 C4 S manual, it shares all the same characteristics as this in terms of being comfortable enough to daily but also quite raw, analogue and involving to drive. Except more in the latter direction.
Once again an amazing true review. The magic of that 992 is well described, considering that I drive in average 2 times a week my 992 S manual with pasm Sport, sport plus seat but no rear steering, I always have this very special feeling not only driving this car but also enjoying it only being inside and enjoying all the different aspects of perfect ergonomics, ease of use. Can’t find a down side except the left and right clusters that are partially hidden by the steering wheel. I was convinced that coming from a 981/gt4 I will down grade myself with this 992 but in reality the joy despite these shy exhaust (stricter emissions) I enjoy it even more.
Same thing here - I skipped the RAS. I can't see it adding to the back road enjoyment I already have with my 992 T with manual. The T does away with some of the insulation and with sport exhaust, you can hear the engine sing, although some have mentioned it sounds better inside the car than outside.
I've bought my first Porsche this year. A used 718 Cayman T. I absolutely love it, and it's definitely something different compared to my Mk7 Golf GTI or my ND Miata. 60k for a newish one is such a difference to the 911 T price though 😅
Got a 981 S this year, £30k fully loaded low miles and an extended porsche warranty. Can't imagine paying more for a larger unbalanced gt car. Money is also safer.
To me, there are two reasons to choose a T: 1. If you want the cheapest manual 911 possible. Or 2, if you want a budget GT3 touring by spec’ing a manual, rear axle steer, and carbon sport buckets. Gives you a lot of what’s in a GT3 minus the speed and sound.
Thanks for the video. After 3 years of 718 GT4 ownership I would like to point out that my car meets and exceeds all the pros mentioned in the T review. It rides reasonably well, is docile in traffic, and easy to drive in any weather with the correct tires. It also has a better manual transmisssion and a NA engine that suffers from no lag at any RPM. It still invokes a sense of occasion after 3 plus years which apparently the T couldn't manage at all. So why would I trade such a special car for a 911 T? Oh right, because it's a 911 and not the poor cousin Cayman.😎
After 3 years in a GT4, what's you opinion of the long gearing of the manual? Sold my 2014 Cayman S manual a while back, and I'm between a used 718 GT4 manual, or a 991.2 911 T.
The 981 CS I previously owned had similiar gearing. It's less of an issue in the GT4 because of the increased torque, especially at lower revs. Of course the car would be faster with shorter gearing but for me it's fast enough and honestly, in my opinion, the gearing is fine.
@@denisvogel5155 I never had an issue with the gearing in my 2014 981 Cayman S either, just didn't know if it differed in the 718 GT4. I need to try and test drove both a 911 T, and a 781 GT4 to decide. Thanks for your perspective.
I agree with you on most your points other than the base seat is 4 way and all you need, they adjust forward and back faster then waiting for the 18 way power seat. I sit in mine fore hours on road trips and are very comfortable.
I thought I would regret not getting 18-ways (hell, my Boxster had 14-ways), but the Sport-Tex seating surface and leather bolstering of the 4-way Sport Plus seats are superb, softer than a ventilated leather seat surface which by definition is hard, and since no one else drives the car, (my wife doesn't drive stick), I don't care much about not having pre-sets. Plus "lighter" than 18-ways, in keeping with the whole lightweight ethos of the T. Base Sport Plus seats FTW.
I have huge respect for SG’s views on cars, so I clicked on this with some trepidation because earlier this year I gave up my very hard to get T allocation to buy a 997 GT3. Not an ounce of regret on that decision after watching their take on the new T. The video basically affirms all of the reasons I decided to go with the older school GT car instead or a 992T. Perfection isn’t better than personality and character for a weekend car. For those who don’t blink at $150k for a true disposable daily driver (not me), then a CPO 911 Turbo S is a better all around choice at this price point IMO.
Went to a Porsche track day, they had the 911S C2, 911T and Cayman GTS. The 911S was the fastest, no surprise, but not by much, the 911T was nice and the Cayman GTS (turbo) was the most fun.
The Porsche 911 is my dream car, which I will likely never own. The irony is that it's a car designed for people in their 20s, who like seats that sit on the floor and firm ride quality, but priced for people in their 60s.
I loved your videos on this car. Great analysis and detail. I have a 2024 Carrera T just delivered to the dealer that I spec'd. Should I get the Xpel Full front PPF paint protection film on the front fender hood, bumper etc for $2195?? Should I get Porsche Term Protection that covers all maintenance parts and labor for wearable components for 72 months/72000 miles for $3295? Lastly is an Porsche Platinum warranty for 6 yrs/100,000 miles for $6395 worth it? I would love to hear your opinion before I specify it and pickup the car! Keep the videos coming too! Thanks!
I have to go to the Porsche website and check their model lineups every time to remember where different 911 variants fall. Buyers must want this, but seems way over the top to a lowly non-Porsche owner. Being too perfect as the complaint is pretty funny. Makes me really want to drive one to see what the fuss is all about.
And they’re more fragile than a Trump voter being told their feckless leader wears orange makeup and taking that personally because they know real men don’t wear makeup
Is it a great car? Yes! As someone who is an older professional who makes 130k+/yr, I could never afford this, ever. So, I am glad it it is out there... but for a lot of us, it might as well not exist as it is unobtainable. :shurg:
Unfortunately, as great as your salary is. Porsche targets people that make significantly more than you do. I make over 200 and I’d never consider a $130k car. That’s insane money. Even Supra/M2/M4 money is hard for me to justify.
@@j.3854 indeed, agreed and understood (I live in a cheaper market). I wish that I could "mature" into something other than a GR86/MX5, but I guess the car market has just outgrown me? :(
@@j.3854 I want to poke your brain for a bit, if you don't mind 😃. What do you have to say to those people who go into debt with a car purchase that is the pre-tax annual salary, and put others people's vehicles down that was a more reasonable purchase? Have a "friend" who has verbalized it in the past, doesn't anymore, but still acts like it.
It’s not Porsche that is out of its mind. It’s the people buying them. I probably wouldn’t have said that a short while ago, but things have really gone crazy in the last couple years with Porsche pricing, them demanding minimum 30k upgrades or they won’t sell you the car, them creating artificial demand by intentionally limiting the number of cars sold, etc... Porsche is not really interested all that much in dealing with folks who are borderline able to purchase their cars. Their interest is basically in the very affluent at this stage of the game.
@@dlj1285Indeed. It's not crazy to ask. People are deluded and it's hurting all of us - them included. But such is life. People on a general level can never be expected to act responsibly or intelligently.
@@dlj1285 Exactly. Porsche used to be a brand you can afford with a good job, now they are catering for people with more money than sense. It's all about greed now. Porsche is a greedy brand, there I said it.
@@TheChannel1978 I mean, if they can make it work business-wise who are we to say anything at the end of the day…They wouldn’t be doing what they are doing if they weren’t making more money. It’s not feeling very ethical, but yeah…Regardless, it was a real turn off to me, but they don’t care so why should I? That’s my conclusion. Now hopefully for them they don’t need potential buyers like me in the future because I will have a long memory for their new way of operating. I’m done with them. That’s the risk they take. Things can change.
A lot of ppl bag on Porsche for nickle and diming you on everything but it allows you to do what you want which is something few other manufacturers allow for. Id happily pay for that.
All their negative comments is why I've always shied away from Porsche and gravitated towards Lotus. Lotus is a drivers car with passion yet comfortable as a daily. Porsche is a drivers car for a person that doesn't car as much about how the car makes you feel or the drive makes you feel, and maybe that wants what everyone typically gets because they are everywhere. I do like them, just not enough to (yet) pull the trigger on one.
@@ariellubonja7856 I think the point is for any car in this price range, we should EXPECT premium quality interior materials. In fact, any 911 model above a base should come with a leather dash standard.
Pssh many *luxury* cars have plastic materials nothing new to complain about. But I do wish a nicer material option was there Edit: Like a free/low price Alcantara-like material
Breaking News Germany 🇩🇪: That’s how you perfect and refine a proper sportscar over a span of 60 years with the dedication of a German engineer. Cheers to my best friend from school engaged with the aerodynamics in the wind tunnel in Weissach and all my fellow citizens in Germany 🇩🇪. Having said that, I don’t need to tell you, my garage is filled with finest attainable driving fun. 2016 Mazda MX-5 OEMplus for daily and track use, 2012 Suzuki Swift Sports for my wife and a 2024 Toyota GR86 😊
After General Motors killed off the Corvair in 1969 it finally had the sense to re-introduce a rear-engined car in 2020 with the C8 Corvette. If only GM had had the balls to stand up to Ralph Nader and continue the rear-engined Corvair to this day.
Nowhere near as hard as a GT car but unfortunately you still need to pay ADM. Maybe m a little more compared to the next guy as well. Unless you are a VIP at the dealership. Unfortunately Porsche still has issues bringing sports cars here
All the good things you mention in this car, you get in spades in my 997.2 with the added advantage that the 997 is not boring. And if I want more, I jump into my 86 M491 Targa. I’m not sure where Porsche is going with the 911 since the 997. From the 991 onwards it no longer appeals to diehards like me. 🤷♂️
In my opinion Porsche is literally the luxury brand that is a one-stop shop for everybody just like stated you could get yourself a basic bare bones car take you to pointy a and b with style and confidence you could get all the way up to hyper status with most importantly the reliability and The prestige. The only thing that people have to consider is of course your paying for it other than that there is no substitute.
My first reaction was, "Yeah!" But then I thought about it, and I realized you could say that about any large manufacturer. They make whatever they make, and then we either like it or we don't. Not a single one of them sends a team over to my house to ask me what I want my car to be like. And at least Porsche still lets us choose some stuff to make their cars a little bit more exclusive to us personally, unlike some manufacturers who bundle all their options into a few trim levels and don't let you pick hardly anything individually.
Just got on top of the list for a Carrera base, allocation hopefully Februaryish, want the T but the wait/line, your looking at 2025 at least in the SE Wisconsin area, then what happens with the refresh
There are tons of 2023 model year for sale in my area, literally hundreds from 2020 and onward, they are all "bespoke". A well spced 911 is a lot of money regardless of trim, to me they don't have enough character and are far from a unique experience. That said, there is no competition. No other sports car has this level of brand image so successfully and in such scale.
Could you comment how do you feel vs the Emira/Evora GT? Similar power and weight. When I drove the 992 it felt disconnected and numb. The Emira seems to be like a better option for the price.
My 2024 Carrera T has all of the luxuries put back in, but they weren't cheap. My sticker was $144k, luckily no ADM. This is my second T (had the 991.2) and can't recommend it enough. Though, I will admit I am on the (long) waitlist for a GT3 Touring - also no ADM. :) Oh and manual's 4 lyfe
@@_que just find a better dealer - my dealer is in the next state over. The practices vary from dealer to dealer and I would stay away from any in California (they seem to be the worst).
@_que that's why I just bought one off the showroom floor. Aside from extended leather it had everything I wanted. I know the games the dealership plays especially as a first-time owner
Porsche and Lego. Both capture your imagination and will be around after your dead. Both fit together so tight it's almost seamless. Lastly they both keep you coming back for MORE!
What you didn't mention is that this 130K car in 10 years might be around 100k. Take a C8 z06, c63, M4... you will pay between 100 and 150k and you will find them around 50k in 10 years. This T is absolutely too expensive for what it is as most of the others, and they certainly have crazy margins with this car but... it holds his value and as an "investment" perspective thats not bad at all. Plus these will be special animals in the electrical kia/hyundai world of 2050...
Depreciation is hitting Porsche hard in Europe at the moment, even GT ‘allocation’ cars. We’ve seen about a 20% drop since summer already. Hopefully your dream car will become obtainable soon 🤞
I get both of Mark and Jacks views. The significance of a 911 will likely change depending on a buyers familiarity with cars. If your coming from regular traffic a 911 will feel so good that its like magic. But if you’re like, looking for something to spice up life, maybe a normal 911 won’t fulfill you
Their view is spot on. My GT3RS is not nearly as raw as my Exige. It might as well be an S Class in comparison. But that's exactly what I was looking for. A GT3RS is my S Class, because I couldn't stand an actual S Class. For MOST people, a GT3RS is the raw track monster. For me, it's the relatively smooth, fast, comfortable, heavy, spacious GT car.
Personally, I'm not a fan of the T. If you wanted a stripped-down, more "pure" driving machine, then just get the 718 GTS 4.0 which cost a lot less. Otherwise I think the base or Carrera S are better options.
@@MrSchn3ll Have you ever driven a 718 Cayman in anger? I have owned both a 911 and Cayman and if your point is you are all about the 911 superiority complex then I can't help you. I simply don't care what other's think about what I'm driving. To me, having the engine in the right place on both track and road is paramount. Your mileage may vary of course. There is NOTHING that puts a smile on my face like tossing a light weight, smaller mid-engine car into a corner... and I'm certainly not thinking about 911 elitists while I'm doing it! I also have a 600+ hp GTR but guess which car I'm normally in on the backroads?
![500 Miles In A Porsche 911 Carrera T [992]!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eDZqP4EPywQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I love Jack's enthusiasm mixed with Mark's objective yet sarcastic rhetoric.
they are a good balance of each other.
Step 1 - Buy a used (well specced) Carrera/T; Rear axle steer, PTV+, Upgraded Speakers
Step 2 - Spend $10K on a flame shooting ECU tune & exhaust
Step 3 - You're now the coolest rich dentist in your town.
Biggest brain move
must be small town you're living in
911 are invisible in the traffic if its not GT models
@@BrHH772 So many GT3s in LA and even Northern Virginia that people only look at GT3 RS's or the models with numbers on the doors like the Heritage Targa, Sport Classic and S/T (when it comes out). Actually the GT4 RSs are now the thing, because they are LOUD.
Step 1, don't buy a car for what other people think
Step 2, but a 981 s/gts to enjoy the most balanced, nimble and sporty car porsche makes for a fraction of the cost. Or go for the gts 4.0, you don't need to buy a GT3 for an NA engine.
There will always be something better. Porsche have made an art out of making you pay more for a few options. The 911 looks great, but it's too big and more of a GT car. If that's what u want then have at it.
@@Jay-xr3sbWhich Porsche model do you have…..and how did you spec it ?
Thx in advance….
There are many "honest" reviews out there of the various Porsche 911s but no one does so with such well articulated depth as you fellows do. It is really hard to express all the paradoxes around the 911 and all that within the context of the complicated Porsche mythology. Outstanding review.
There’s no honest reviews apart from these guys. Stop being deluded.
I love the exterior styling. It's a timeless, classic design. Way outside my price range, but a beautiful car.
Jump on the poor mans porsche, get a MR2! That's what I want but I just have to convince my wife...
If it's something you REALLY want, take a look in the pre-owned market (where smart shoppers go anyway). These cars are exceptionally well engineered and you barely notice the years. I once bought a 5 year old C4S for under $40,000. I owned it for 6 years and loved every mile. I only sold it because I wanted to try something different.
@@ThomasFerrugia Unfortunately, a 5 year old C4S is now more like $90k.
@@tranc3porter : Doesn't have to be a C4S. That was just an example. But where are you looking? I just found a gorgeous 2017 S Cabrio for under $60,000 (with only 50,000 miles) on Autotrader.
@@ThomasFerrugiayeah that’s not happening in today’s market
My Carrera T is on its way to me, delivery next month! Cant wait!
U get it?!
@@SZUSEast1 yep!
How long do you have to wait from ordering to recieving it? Thanks
@@gazof-the-north1980 once you submit your final build, it's about 3-4 months for them to make it and ship it to the dealership
This video helped me to finally understand the 911 philosophy and now things make perfect sense. Love how you guys bring more to your car reviews beyond stats and drag racing.
Entry level stripped out Porsche.
7 speed manual gearbox.
A four speaker stereo player.
With some cloth seats.
A match made in heaven.
In 2050 it will be in favor and appreciate when the markets says “so pure.”
Agree but I’d still put in a decent stereo 😊
@@chrisharris4223 ~ The stereo. The engine and the exhaust note. With a chorus, of road noise just like the Germans/engineers intended. Keep it simple. ☺️
@@rvbsoundfactorymfs justifying a cheapo sound system on a $130k+ car
@@pepper0075 We all have to prioritize. And as much as I love music all genres. My main focus would be driving that 911 Porsche
if I was be so lucky to own such a fine automobile. Okay thinking 6 to 8 months of ownership, maybe a stereo with six speakers preferably Dynaudio or Meridian. With a kicking Mark Levinson amplifier. Yes is a bit much to ask 110,000 and not even a decent stereo. I guess it push came to shove you could always get a boombox stick it in the back without deleted seat option. Sweet! Now that's rolling.☺️
To list a few more major upsides to owning a Porsche sports car:
- excellent resale value
- many specialist workshops to choose from
- many club events and a great community
- many aftermarket parts
- dealers/workshops are global and generally not too far apart
These are some of the reasons (including all the stuff you guys mentioned) I keep coming back this brand and I just can’t find a replacement.
C8 Corvette, all I have to say.
@@RealtorGarage I live in Norway. Corvettes are few and far between outside of North America :(
Ahh makes sense, here in North America they are direct competitors. 911 is substantially more $$. Only difference is the nice dealer experience you get at Porsche, other than that the vette is a superior, I have a 2014 C7 Stingray with the Z51 package. I eat all the normal 911’s for breakfast
Keyword Normal 911s....@@RealtorGarage
Porsche owners trying to justify why they spent 160k on a base Carrera
Fantastic balanced review guys. I love how you get into detail like spring rates that nobody else does.
I'm surprised some don't like this styling. Seems like a perfect combo of classic with a couple modern touches.
You know many of us drive 911's for the perfectly subdued status you describe and demean. The 911 is a perfect car. I don't want drama. I want automotive perfection every time I step inside...
I love the gauges and physical buttons.
lol the gauges are going away in a year or so...hope you like screens
@@pan4632 Not for me because I won't buy a car like the M2 with a giant screen. For me I will have the gauges or nothing. Aesthetics is important to to me so what you said doesn't apply to me. I decide, not them.
@@Digiphexso what will you get once everything is screens? Newer 911 prototypes have been seen with all-digital clusters. The end of an era.
And then what will you do once all of the good old reliable cars with buttons have all faded away to time?
@@faheemabbas3965 I have a 2023 Cayman GTS 4.0 and me and her will also fade away together.
@@DigiphexThe instrument panel screen will show you whatever gauges you prefer, and they won't look all that different if that's the style you choose. There are good, sensible reasons for IP screens (separate from those for infotainment, which are getting a bit silly.
That manual transmission gear is beautiful, I can sit in that car and shift it all day.
Just wait until you get it out on the road! /s
Just wait until you turn 74 and HAVE to shift it all day !
( God do I love my PDK !! )
@@unclebob4964 Porsche does spoil you. They make the best automatic (even if they say PDK is not technically an automatic, but an "automated dual-clutch transmission"), and their manuals today are all excellent and easy to use. The T's short-shift kit and stubby lever make it even better.
I've already ordered my TuxMats and expect to score a great deal on Cyber Monday for a 911 T allocation. Great that Porsche doesn't unnecessarily dilute the 911.
You should hopefully get a good price, discounts available across the 911 range in UK as savage depreciation is hitting Porsche hard. Hope you’re getting similar deals in USA.
@@cp4512there still enough people flush with cash that they’ll likely still be sticking ADM on 911 for a bit until they bleed a little more $ off
@@cp4512 JayEmm is my personal shopper.
@@cp4512by how many ? Friend of mine bought Cayman 718 GTS last year and he paid the full price for it
@@cp4512 We don’t. US market is teflon and market fluctuations flow right off the back of desirable Porsches’ values. I’m pretty sure my well-optioned 718 Cayman S is still worth what I paid for it two years ago.
I've been using RUclips regularly for about two years now and you guys are my favorite. You get to the important points almost immediately, your comments are insightful and concise, and, providing perspective from two different perspectives only adds to the enjoyment. By the way, I was the former owner of a 1973 911T a long time ago and now have my sights on a new base 911. Loved the review.
Get the modern T while you can. The manual T just puts a smile on your face even if you're not driving on a back road or even if you didn't get deviated stitching and leather-covered air vents with alcantara headliner and carbon fiber roof with the aerokit. (i.e., if you want fancy stuff on your 911 to impress the poseurs, get an S ,GTS, Turbo S or GT car)
I was watching some of your earliest reviews yesterday, and it really pleasant to see how far your videos have come, going from decent to great or awesome. Another great review from Savage Geese!
The result of 5 months of careful editing.
I have a 2023 T simply best car I have ever owned. ❤
I love the 992 but I love the 718 more. The 718 is more raw and feels like a sports car all the time. The 992 has also gotten so expensive that I would be afraid to drive it, let alone take it to an autocross or race track. It’s an amazing car that would mostly sit in the garage.
Don’t worry, prices now falling fast in Europe. Investors are just dumping cars, so at least enthusiasts can get cheap cars and aren’t afraid of using them anymore. Dealers are even giving good discounts on new cars which has been unheard of for the last 5 years!
🤮
I've DD'd my 992 for 3 years and feel the opposite. What I love about it is just how "normal" and unintimidating it can feel. Great visibility, spacious cabin, surprisingly practical, 30mpg on road trips. I've even got my dog's car seat in the back!
I love the 718 as well, but I think it's a worse daily. Worse visibility, feels more claustrophic with wall behind you, can't just stash items behind you.
Both great sports car options either way.
copium
@@cp4512where?🙂
Car reviews is an overcrowded space - but I really enjoyed her commentary, delivery and depth of understanding - excellent, thank you
On the note of all the engineers from different brands having one: performance/engineering aside, it's just a very grown-up looking, mature sports car. Even the LC500 is flashy by comparison, or really any of the competition where the engine's up front. Porsche's sports cars stand out AND blend in just the right amount. It's a matter of suiting the character of enthusiasts who've mellowed out and may not want the attention a corvette or whatever brings.
Well said
People will probably disagree with this take but the 911 is how miatas are viewed. Like the acronym miata is always the answer, the 911 the rich man's best choice for a do everything car as well. Its fast, it handles, overall reliable, it can daily or track. But it's just that the people who can buy these cars kind of treat them as a trophy and dont really use them to the fullest.
That’s why everyone should really just buy a Miata.
@@Atothen1234 Miata's don't have 4 seats :D, its a 100k upgrade to a 911
Funny you say that! Here in the UK 911s are driven by grandads and never see them driven quickly. Same for caymans. I think this is what puts me getting one..that and the price lol
Is a GR86 more fun than this 🤔
Most track days are dominated by Miatas, 911s, and Vettes. I just had my 30K service after 2yrs of ownership. The rear tires were almost slick due to all the hooning about I partake in.
Miatas are absolute trash.
It's interresting that Jack says the 911 is better than the Cayman, but is the 992 T really better than a 718 GTS 4.0? Lower powered turbo vs 400 NA HP? 7 speed vs 6 speed manual? 1580Kg vs 1480Kg? 1 trunk vs 2 and that before you compare the costs.
yes it is
You have to drive it to understand why. While I think the T is better I am not sure that the price difference between the 718 is justified however.
@@cezarcocu1031 Agree - except the new 718 prices have spiked up and a new Cayman GTS 4.0 base price is now more than a new 911 S just a few years ago, even if it's still $10k cheaper than a base Carrera (which is not available with manual or sport PASM or many of the goodies on the 718 GTS 4.0).
I’ve driven both on track, the T is less fun to drive.
As someone who had a new 992 base, the car is a wonderful all year round "practical" sports car. Having said that, after a few months, I started to feel why did I spend all this money for this and why does it feel boring. I then lucked out and bought one of the last new 718 Spyders and then realized what a Porsche should feel like. Other than that, I have nothing bad to say about the 992. I would buy another one, especially the T in a heartbeat.
What strikes me about the modern 911 is that the speed is so effortless. Even the base model is a 300kph car. The power, traction and handling are superb and seem to get better with every generation. Almost all the bad manners and complaints have been addressed. Every quirk exercised or converted to an advantage. Rear engine which used to crash you is now over the axle so it launches like a steam catapult, for example. At this point, it’s an appliance for speed, for better or worse.
I have exactly the same conclusion, but came to it some other way - earlier this year I ordered 718 Boxster GTS 4.0 as I wanted to have a toy and believed that it’s the best value for money option in the Porsche sports cars range - I’ve never driven any 911 at that moment, tbh I didn’t even drive the GTS 4.0 itself then, I made a decision based on the test drive of Boxster T in which I fell in love. Two months after that I took part in Porsche Experience event and was frightened that driving 911 will ruin my experience and make me change my order and actually buy 911 instead. But when I actually got a chance to drive 718 GTS 4.0 and whole non-GT line-up of 911s back-to-back on track I knew that it’s actually the opposite and the 718 is the EXACT answer to what I’ve been looking for and non-GT 911 simply isn’t. Don’t get me wrong - 992 is super capable car, actually if someone would ask me which one handles better, I would say that it’s 911, but at the same time you just feel like car is doing everything for you, there is no fun, there is no engagement - as Jack said it’s so perfected and smooth that you actually don’t feel anything and I don’t think that’s what sports cars are all about.
I did and felt exactly the same as you. First own a new base 992 for 3 years. Love it but later found it lack of passion. Got one of the last new 718 Spyder this year. Fall in love with it completely. To me, 718 Spyder is such a passion car with much soul than non-GT 992. I might sold 992 and replace it with a 991.2 GT3 as a more hardcore car for track day use.
@@nateisright it can be too altered speed, but it's not need to be an unnecessary death traps.
I have similar experience with yours. Test drove a 992 base convertible, exciting but got bored after 5 mins. Then tested drove a T, I was smiling all the time. My T is arriving next June. It should be one of the last 992.1s.
"Let me just rev it out one more time." Exactly...
I don't even care about Porsches, but this is just a terrific review. You've provided what any viewer would want to know, from inside or outside the Porschephile community. You remain on your trajectory to dominate as the thinking person's RUclips car review channel.
I specced out a new T, and it came to $160K and it was far from fully loaded. Just nice seats, and some interior color. For me, I’ve been eyeing the 993 generation because I love the way it looks, and a 911 will never be a daily for me. Yes, the cabin is pretty antiquated, but there’s a lot more emotion than in the newer cars.
@ these prices, best to avoid the depreciation hit and get the older smaller 911s. Agreed 100%
@@_que The obvious downside is VERY expensive maintenance that adds up over time, but odds are you can drive an older one for a bit less because the price curve bottomed out a long time ago.
This is the way, and if you're willing to roll up the sleeves and do some maintenance yourself that's even better.
@@retrograde11 The advantage of all the pre-991 cars is you can actually access the engine by opening the lid. And in the case of the 993, 964, and older classic air-cooled 911s, you can access the ENTIRE engine.
@@glennhavinoviski8128 good insight! 👍
Porsche has become such a benchmark in driving dynamics and exterior looks, that they literally take the formula "if ain't broke, don't fix it." They know their customers so well - loyal customers, including new, will pay a hefty price on their options package no matter what the cost. And since the benchmark is so high and almost standardized in their brand DNA, the term that Savagegeese used in the video, "how do they make something so remarkably unremarkable," is pretty much the best way we describe it at this point because the benchmark meter is just that high. We can really take any other car at this price point and say it's a better value, but it's heritage you pay for at Porsche if anything alongside the best in class driving dynamics. That's really all I can think of. Anything they mess up for the next year model, will be sensitive enough for customers to say it has turned to crap, and anything new and minuscule will be underwhelming. That's just how it's been for generations for Porsche. It's hard to put in words because you need to experience it in order to really understand it, and the only way to do that is paying a shiny penny to get into the Porsche club. That is why most Porsche owners will just say, "you need to just experience it before you make a judgment about the brand"!
Just like every nice car I've had, I bought it years later than I should have. Save up and then enjoy the rapture.
3:03
the 996, I would say, is actually the generation that sparked controversy which stems from its unconventional styling cues which porsche enthusiasts gone up in arms for. But porsche did what they did best: its timeless Silhouette and usable performance
When the Boxster and Cayman went from flat 6 in the 981 to Turbo 4 with the 718, and even when the 991.2 featured turbos on reduced-displacement flat-6s on all Carrera models, the Porsche purists went bonkers and drove used 981 and 991.1 prices up (for a while). Despite everything else about the cars being best-in-class. The beauty of the base 992 engine (in the Carrera and Carrera T) is it has all the advantages of turbos (usable torque throughout the rev range) while sounding and making power like a normally-aspirated motor, sounding great at high rpm's. I realized what I had missed for 7 years with my 718 Boxster S, which was otherwise a fantastic car.
Not everybody is happy to pay the largest premium in the industry, even though many aspects of Porsche are best in class. I remember reading some Porsche models have 30% margin, I think that's way too much. To each their own though.
I'm in the market for a Porsche and a 992 Carrera T with a manual, bucket seats, and minimal options is the one I would buy. If I could afford one. So I'll just settle for a 718 Cayman S.
I'm in the market for a Bugatti Chiron. If I could afford one. So I'll just settle for a Nissan Altima.
@@2failepic I'm in the market for a Nissan Altima. If I could afford one. So I'll just settle for a 1994 Toyota Celica.
Why an S? Get the GTS 4.0
@@isserdigan2835 Lack of allocations, indefinite wait times, and markups. I'm not paying effectively $20-30k for a 4.0 GTS over an S for a just the flat 6 engine while I could spec all the performance goodies and the Sport Design Package on an S. So it'll handle just like a 4.0 GTS and actually weigh even less. Furthermore it's not even guaranteed I'd get a GTS 4.0 built for me before they're inevitably discontinued even if I got on a wait list. Most dealers get 3-4 GTS 4.0s PER YEAR. Once a quarter. If I'm buying a flat 6, it's gonna be a 911, full stop. I'd rather have a Porsche now than not now, and when the 718 goes EV, I'm jumping on the 911 train in a few years.
@@isserdigan2835S is around 40k-60k GTS 4.0 is 90k-100k+
Porsche is having savage depreciation across the range in the UK at the moment, even 911 GT cars. We’ve seen over 20% drop in the last few months on second hand cars at dealers and solid discounts on new cars, and it hasn’t bottomed out yet. Great news for enthusiasts who want to enjoy their cars, very bad news for investors who hide them away in a garage away waiting for prices to go up.
It's not really regular depreciation though, it's just the expected market adjustment following a long period of static prices due to the chip shortage, COVID, and the Ukraine situation causing car shortages. They've dropped 20% because they hadn't been dropping at all in the previous 2 years - and THAT was the odd bit. They should continue to depreciate more normally now. (At least, normally for Porsche GT products, which is less than most of the market.)
Not in the US. Its only become more expensive
I have a 18 gt3. These 992s have gone sterile. I’ve had every type 911 since my 993 TT (996 GT3, 997.1 GT3, 997.2 S PDK, 991.1 50th anniversary, 991.2 GT3. This is the first time I don’t feel like getting the next one (992)
But I do think the people who want a manual should buy this car instead of a gt3 manual. If they want involvement this is the car. You get the GT3 which is the track car the race car for the street the Cup car that’s $100,000 less and you get the SLOWER version? No!
Dentists everywhere are absolutely stoked for this car.
All the dentists I know will not even look at anything below a Turbo S.
@@robertlevasseur6843my buddy is a dentist and it's gt3 all the way for him...
I’m a dentist and it’s a 993 for street and GT3 Cup for track. The 993 has soooo much character. I can’t see ever selling it.
most these peope are badge nerds buying for peer pressure worship lol. they dont even enjoy driving.
@@robertlevasseur6843 +1 on this. Although in my city, the dentists exclusively gravitate to the cabriolets.
At 11.35 you mention the car choices of auto executives around the world. The fact that they go for the 911 speaks volumes for what the chaps in Zuffenhausen have achieved.
Congrats on yet another engaging and witty review. They are so entertaining that I'm working my way through your back catalogue of videos even those that feature cars that aren't available here in Europe
EWWWWrope can go to hell
I owned a 992 T for the first half of this year, and sadly came to agree with Mark. I then found out that the days of waiting and paying over for a new C8 Z06 are over and they can be had for around the same price. It is a better, more exciting car in almost every way. I wish it came in a manual and I wish it didn't suck gas, but unlike the 992 T, every drive feels special.
The options you note are also not included on ANY other 911. (leather, carbon, interior etc). Things this car does include that others don't: 21/20 inch S wheels, sport chrono, PASM, sport exhaust, manual trans, thinner glass, lighter battery, agate gray trim, painted interior pieces if chosen, etc. ALL things either not available or up charge on a normal Carrera or Base...
My dream 911 is as follows. For one, it should be mid-engined. If a 911 used the chassis of a 718, with the front end of a GT3 (double wishbones) and a narrower, relatively straight body like the 996/997. Bring back a legit base model using this 3.0L without the turbos. The mid engine chassis with a smaller 911 shaped body using a bit more aluminum would be at least 100kilos lighter than this at 3200lbs. A 3.0 with 300-350hp NA would be quite quick and fun. Then the Carrera S can utilize the 718 GTS 4.0L with a torquier high revving NA engine. This is where the passion will come from. Now that the petrol 718 is on life support just migrate the 911 to its flawless chassis and epic packaging. The 911 deserves to have a legit lift back for luggage like a cayman. Then have a base 911 turbo run this 3.0 in top 500hp spec and the turbo S run a turbo 4.0.
just get the 718 then… 90% of 911, something even better but half the price
Nice review. You guys pretty much nailed it in your analysis. I love the 911 and own a base 991.2 Carrera. I am not a track guy so the car has plenty of performance for my needs. Thanks. 😎
I test drove this vs the LC and i bought the LC because i felt a lot more w/ that car. The 911 was great but next to what you just said this car is the civic of the wealthy. So in that respect...nope. BUT yea i felt nothing wrong w/ the car. It was great. Some times you find great products you just don't care for, for what ever reason Its like me and peanutbutter and chocolate. I never choose it but if you gave me a bite id probably really enjoy it. BUT I NEVER CHOOSE IT!
And yea your rite about spending more money to get the car you want. Jesus i was at 160 on a 2CS 7MT and i wanted a GT2 but there were no allocations for one. And that was a stretch for me so it was really no choice at all but had it been id still need to find the allocation for one. So that's another requirement for access.
now cope witha aptera car muahaha@@aurorajones8481
LC would bow to the 911 just out of respect
@@ClinicalDecisionYikesYTA car with a glorious v8 bowing to a 3.0 6 cylinder? Sure…
@@ClinicalDecisionYikesYT They’re totally different cars. No bowing required. Some of these comparisons are a bit weird in my view.
I have a lowly 996 C4 S manual, it shares all the same characteristics as this in terms of being comfortable enough to daily but also quite raw, analogue and involving to drive. Except more in the latter direction.
Sounds just like modern day, soon-to-be-cancelled 718 (982).
Once again an amazing true review. The magic of that 992 is well described, considering that I drive in average 2 times a week my 992 S manual with pasm
Sport, sport plus seat but no rear steering, I always have this very special feeling not only driving this car but also enjoying it only being inside and enjoying all the different aspects of perfect ergonomics, ease of use. Can’t find a down side except the left and right clusters that are partially hidden by the steering wheel. I was convinced that coming from a 981/gt4 I will down grade myself with this 992 but in reality the joy despite these shy exhaust (stricter emissions) I enjoy it even more.
Same thing here - I skipped the RAS. I can't see it adding to the back road enjoyment I already have with my 992 T with manual. The T does away with some of the insulation and with sport exhaust, you can hear the engine sing, although some have mentioned it sounds better inside the car than outside.
Great review on the 911 T. Y'all don't just drone on and on like most people do. You just break it down and make it simple . Thank you fellows .
I've bought my first Porsche this year. A used 718 Cayman T. I absolutely love it, and it's definitely something different compared to my Mk7 Golf GTI or my ND Miata. 60k for a newish one is such a difference to the 911 T price though 😅
Got a 981 S this year, £30k fully loaded low miles and an extended porsche warranty. Can't imagine paying more for a larger unbalanced gt car. Money is also safer.
@Jay-xr3sb that's a good price. 981 are really rare nowadays.
Fantastic videos. Thanks for representing Chicagoland!
To me, there are two reasons to choose a T: 1. If you want the cheapest manual 911 possible. Or 2, if you want a budget GT3 touring by spec’ing a manual, rear axle steer, and carbon sport buckets. Gives you a lot of what’s in a GT3 minus the speed and sound.
Thanks for the video. After 3 years of 718 GT4 ownership I would like to point out that my car meets and exceeds all the pros mentioned in the T review. It rides reasonably well, is docile in traffic, and easy to drive in any weather with the correct tires.
It also has a better manual transmisssion and a NA engine that suffers from no lag at any RPM. It still invokes a sense of occasion after 3 plus years which apparently the T couldn't manage at all. So why would I trade such a special car for a 911 T?
Oh right, because it's a 911 and not the poor cousin Cayman.😎
And the 718 Cayman is a prettier car. The 911 is classic. But always looks a bit fat in the ass.
After 3 years in a GT4, what's you opinion of the long gearing of the manual? Sold my 2014 Cayman S manual a while back, and I'm between a used 718 GT4 manual, or a 991.2 911 T.
The 981 CS I previously owned had similiar gearing. It's less of an issue in the GT4 because of the increased torque, especially at lower revs. Of course the car would be faster with shorter gearing but for me it's fast enough and honestly, in my opinion, the gearing is fine.
@@denisvogel5155 I never had an issue with the gearing in my 2014 981 Cayman S either, just didn't know if it differed in the 718 GT4. I need to try and test drove both a 911 T, and a 781 GT4 to decide. Thanks for your perspective.
I agree with you on most your points other than the base seat is 4 way and all you need, they adjust forward and back faster then waiting for the 18 way power seat. I sit in mine fore hours on road trips and are very comfortable.
I thought I would regret not getting 18-ways (hell, my Boxster had 14-ways), but the Sport-Tex seating surface and leather bolstering of the 4-way Sport Plus seats are superb, softer than a ventilated leather seat surface which by definition is hard, and since no one else drives the car, (my wife doesn't drive stick), I don't care much about not having pre-sets. Plus "lighter" than 18-ways, in keeping with the whole lightweight ethos of the T. Base Sport Plus seats FTW.
I have huge respect for SG’s views on cars, so I clicked on this with some trepidation because earlier this year I gave up my very hard to get T allocation to buy a 997 GT3. Not an ounce of regret on that decision after watching their take on the new T. The video basically affirms all of the reasons I decided to go with the older school GT car instead or a 992T. Perfection isn’t better than personality and character for a weekend car. For those who don’t blink at $150k for a true disposable daily driver (not me), then a CPO 911 Turbo S is a better all around choice at this price point IMO.
Except CPO 911 Turbo S's (991 and 992) can't be had for $150k, at least in my region. 997's, maybe.
Went to a Porsche track day, they had the 911S C2, 911T and Cayman GTS. The 911S was the fastest, no surprise, but not by much, the 911T was nice and the Cayman GTS (turbo) was the most fun.
The Porsche 911 is my dream car, which I will likely never own. The irony is that it's a car designed for people in their 20s, who like seats that sit on the floor and firm ride quality, but priced for people in their 60s.
I am 52 years still can't afford one lol. Maybe next life for me and you bud.
Buy a used one.
Really good show. Photography is beautiful and you guys are succinct and sincere.
Jack grunting and telling me its 911 time woke me up before my coffee did
I loved your videos on this car. Great analysis and detail. I have a 2024 Carrera T just delivered to the dealer that I spec'd. Should I get the Xpel Full front PPF paint protection film on the front fender hood, bumper etc for $2195?? Should I get Porsche Term Protection that covers all maintenance parts and labor for wearable components for 72 months/72000 miles for $3295? Lastly is an Porsche Platinum warranty for 6 yrs/100,000 miles for $6395 worth it? I would love to hear your opinion before I specify it and pickup the car! Keep the videos coming too! Thanks!
I have to go to the Porsche website and check their model lineups every time to remember where different 911 variants fall. Buyers must want this, but seems way over the top to a lowly non-Porsche owner. Being too perfect as the complaint is pretty funny. Makes me really want to drive one to see what the fuss is all about.
Since I can't afford this car it's good to know that I can simply go on a bender to feel that specialness. Thanks Mark!
I love how a brand new 2023/24 911 still uses cupholders which I had back in 1999 Jetta / Bora 😂
And they’re more fragile than a Trump voter being told their feckless leader wears orange makeup and taking that personally because they know real men don’t wear makeup
Cupholders, I'd guess, would be the absolutely-lowest priority for 911 engineers.
But for an additional fee they’re absolutely highest? :)
The pedals in the 2024 are identical to my 2005 911
What an engine sound. There is no substitute.
My 94 celica has a manual too
This review is spot-on about this car.
Is it a great car? Yes!
As someone who is an older professional who makes 130k+/yr, I could never afford this, ever.
So, I am glad it it is out there... but for a lot of us, it might as well not exist as it is unobtainable. :shurg:
Unfortunately, as great as your salary is. Porsche targets people that make significantly more than you do. I make over 200 and I’d never consider a $130k car. That’s insane money. Even Supra/M2/M4 money is hard for me to justify.
@@j.3854 indeed, agreed and understood (I live in a cheaper market). I wish that I could "mature" into something other than a GR86/MX5, but I guess the car market has just outgrown me? :(
@@dowroa funny you say that. The car I own? 2023 BRZ 6MT base. Haha
For that Sports car poise/precision and 5 seats, for a reasonable price you can try a Giulia Veloce/QV
@@j.3854 I want to poke your brain for a bit, if you don't mind 😃. What do you have to say to those people who go into debt with a car purchase that is the pre-tax annual salary, and put others people's vehicles down that was a more reasonable purchase? Have a "friend" who has verbalized it in the past, doesn't anymore, but still acts like it.
Guys, will be extremely interested when you drive Emira. This is biggest question I have, get raw, modern analog Emira or one of the 911?
I don't care how pure of a driver's car it is, at 140-160k for a specced out base model, Porsche is out of their minds. Just get a 718
It’s not Porsche that is out of its mind. It’s the people buying them. I probably wouldn’t have said that a short while ago, but things have really gone crazy in the last couple years with Porsche pricing, them demanding minimum 30k upgrades or they won’t sell you the car, them creating artificial demand by intentionally limiting the number of cars sold, etc... Porsche is not really interested all that much in dealing with folks who are borderline able to purchase their cars. Their interest is basically in the very affluent at this stage of the game.
@@dlj1285Indeed. It's not crazy to ask. People are deluded and it's hurting all of us - them included. But such is life. People on a general level can never be expected to act responsibly or intelligently.
@@dlj1285 Exactly. Porsche used to be a brand you can afford with a good job, now they are catering for people with more money than sense. It's all about greed now. Porsche is a greedy brand, there I said it.
@@TheChannel1978 I mean, if they can make it work business-wise who are we to say anything at the end of the day…They wouldn’t be doing what they are doing if they weren’t making more money. It’s not feeling very ethical, but yeah…Regardless, it was a real turn off to me, but they don’t care so why should I? That’s my conclusion.
Now hopefully for them they don’t need potential buyers like me in the future because I will have a long memory for their new way of operating. I’m done with them. That’s the risk they take. Things can change.
Mark, so what would you pick instead if given the choice?
I'd take an LC any day
Yawn.. nothing drives better than a Porsche
I love the gauges and physical buttons))))
A lot of ppl bag on Porsche for nickle and diming you on everything but it allows you to do what you want which is something few other manufacturers allow for. Id happily pay for that.
yeah no gettin sued for doing somehting weird with your car like ferrari sueing that guy for putting a nyan cat wrap on his ferrari lol
Great video. As usual. So independant and clear.
I actually enjoy basic cars. I kind of appreciate the basic 2-way adjustable seats honestly
Don’t worry you get 4 way to start with this one🫣
The people buying $120k cars don't want basic cars though. That's the point
All their negative comments is why I've always shied away from Porsche and gravitated towards Lotus. Lotus is a drivers car with passion yet comfortable as a daily. Porsche is a drivers car for a person that doesn't car as much about how the car makes you feel or the drive makes you feel, and maybe that wants what everyone typically gets because they are everywhere. I do like them, just not enough to (yet) pull the trigger on one.
Leave it to Porsche to charge you 120k for a plastic dashboard.
The most overpriced cars on the planet. Porsche enthusiasts really are the dumbest.
no no the car is 120k , the dashboard is for free ;)
If you buy a porsche 911 for the dashboard, something is wrong with you
@@ariellubonja7856 I think the point is for any car in this price range, we should EXPECT premium quality interior materials. In fact, any 911 model above a base should come with a leather dash standard.
Pssh many *luxury* cars have plastic materials nothing new to complain about. But I do wish a nicer material option was there
Edit: Like a free/low price Alcantara-like material
The nicest vw ever 😂. Maybe one day I can drive one of these cars
Breaking News Germany 🇩🇪:
That’s how you perfect and refine a proper sportscar over a span of 60 years with the dedication of a German engineer. Cheers to my best friend from school engaged with the aerodynamics in the wind tunnel in Weissach and all my fellow citizens in Germany 🇩🇪.
Having said that, I don’t need to tell you, my garage is filled with finest attainable driving fun.
2016 Mazda MX-5 OEMplus for daily and track use, 2012 Suzuki Swift Sports for my wife and a 2024 Toyota GR86 😊
The answer is 718 Cayman or Boxster GTS 4.0. Manual of course. Less money pure sports car. Exciting!
After General Motors killed off the Corvair in 1969 it finally had the sense to re-introduce a rear-engined car in 2020 with the C8 Corvette. If only GM had had the balls to stand up to Ralph Nader and continue the rear-engined Corvair to this day.
Mid engine C8
Fiero?
@@BrisLS1 How on earth could I have overlooked this gem of an automobile??
Does anyone know if this car is also impossible to get, locked behind Porsche’s insane allocation system, as well?
Nowhere near as hard as a GT car but unfortunately you still need to pay ADM. Maybe m a little more compared to the next guy as well. Unless you are a VIP at the dealership. Unfortunately Porsche still has issues bringing sports cars here
I don't care about this car or the company that makes it, or the people it's for, but I will click on and watch for you guys.
Anyone know the argument for why rear steer is so heavily recommended by Jack?
Helps dramatically with your initial turn in and gives the car better high speed stability mid corner.
Carrera T is nice and wouldve gotten it had I not gotten my GT4.
you have the more exciting car.
@@pan4632 true. But they ended production. Iwas lucky to buy one.
All the good things you mention in this car, you get in spades in my 997.2 with the added advantage that the 997 is not boring. And if I want more, I jump into my 86 M491 Targa. I’m not sure where Porsche is going with the 911 since the 997. From the 991 onwards it no longer appeals to diehards like me. 🤷♂️
Same thing happened to the M cars, they started to get almost too good that they lost their raw edge that made them exciting to drive.
The 40i are also so good that it feels like eventually the m only is going to be redundant too.
In my opinion Porsche is literally the luxury brand that is a one-stop shop for everybody just like stated you could get yourself a basic bare bones car take you to pointy a and b with style and confidence you could get all the way up to hyper status with most importantly the reliability and The prestige. The only thing that people have to consider is of course your paying for it other than that there is no substitute.
Porsches philosophy is “you get what we give you, and you better like it”
It's more like, "you only get what you paid for and hope you that you can live with your choices."
Porsche is pretty much a dominatrix and it’s buyers a gimp with a ball gag
My first reaction was, "Yeah!" But then I thought about it, and I realized you could say that about any large manufacturer. They make whatever they make, and then we either like it or we don't. Not a single one of them sends a team over to my house to ask me what I want my car to be like. And at least Porsche still lets us choose some stuff to make their cars a little bit more exclusive to us personally, unlike some manufacturers who bundle all their options into a few trim levels and don't let you pick hardly anything individually.
That doesn't seem to be true; with so many trim levels offered, you get to choose exactly what you desire (assuming you can afford it).
? They don't "give" you anything, they charge you out of wazoo and people still clamor for it because it's a good product. But nice cope.
Just got on top of the list for a Carrera base, allocation hopefully Februaryish, want the T but the wait/line, your looking at 2025 at least in the SE Wisconsin area, then what happens with the refresh
Cool, I’ll buy it in 20 years from now 😂🎉
There are tons of 2023 model year for sale in my area, literally hundreds from 2020 and onward, they are all "bespoke". A well spced 911 is a lot of money regardless of trim, to me they don't have enough character and are far from a unique experience. That said, there is no competition. No other sports car has this level of brand image so successfully and in such scale.
Could you comment how do you feel vs the Emira/Evora GT? Similar power and weight.
When I drove the 992 it felt disconnected and numb. The Emira seems to be like a better option for the price.
Evora is a lot more fun than a 991 or 992 when I drove them
...as usual, another GREAT reveiw!!! Japa, you always Rock!! Thanks!!👍🏻🤙🏻
Can someone make a 220 inch 7 seater liftback sedan
What happened to Prius with an 8” lift?
@@CristianHernandez-xh7bzthat also needs 8 inch ground clearance
It’s actually easy to explain. Soul is in the flaws. And the modern 911 is flawless. I like my Cayman though. That’s more pure as a sports car.
My 2024 Carrera T has all of the luxuries put back in, but they weren't cheap. My sticker was $144k, luckily no ADM. This is my second T (had the 991.2) and can't recommend it enough. Though, I will admit I am on the (long) waitlist for a GT3 Touring - also no ADM. :)
Oh and manual's 4 lyfe
I need to work in your industry! Lol
Porsche waiting list games is something I struggle with... as well as the dealer adm... kept me away from the brand for new purchases... best of luck
@@_que just find a better dealer - my dealer is in the next state over. The practices vary from dealer to dealer and I would stay away from any in California (they seem to be the worst).
@_que that's why I just bought one off the showroom floor. Aside from extended leather it had everything I wanted. I know the games the dealership plays especially as a first-time owner
Hate the 4 dots in a square in the headlights.
I think 911s have the largest margins of any sports car. Wish they were still affordable 😢
Porsche and Lego. Both capture your imagination and will be around after your dead. Both fit together so tight it's almost seamless. Lastly they both keep you coming back for MORE!
Lego is Danish.
Well damn@@EvoraGT430
I’ll never understand the backseat delete in a 911. . .
I know right, only Porsche knows how to sell sand to people at the beach...
I'll never understand why they put back seats in the 911 in the first place.
@@xtnuser5338insurance purposes.
Man that "T" part almost made me spit my evening boletus mushrooms i was eating so happily - real funny one! Love your videos and style, cheers!
What you didn't mention is that this 130K car in 10 years might be around 100k. Take a C8 z06, c63, M4... you will pay between 100 and 150k and you will find them around 50k in 10 years. This T is absolutely too expensive for what it is as most of the others, and they certainly have crazy margins with this car but... it holds his value and as an "investment" perspective thats not bad at all. Plus these will be special animals in the electrical kia/hyundai world of 2050...
The obtainable P car I want that's still just slightly unobtainable!
Depreciation is hitting Porsche hard in Europe at the moment, even GT ‘allocation’ cars. We’ve seen about a 20% drop since summer already. Hopefully your dream car will become obtainable soon 🤞
@@cp4512 That would be perfect! I've noticed the 991 T coming down a bit here but, i do love a python green Porsche! :)
I get both of Mark and Jacks views. The significance of a 911 will likely change depending on a buyers familiarity with cars. If your coming from regular traffic a 911 will feel so good that its like magic. But if you’re like, looking for something to spice up life, maybe a normal 911 won’t fulfill you
Their view is spot on. My GT3RS is not nearly as raw as my Exige. It might as well be an S Class in comparison. But that's exactly what I was looking for. A GT3RS is my S Class, because I couldn't stand an actual S Class.
For MOST people, a GT3RS is the raw track monster. For me, it's the relatively smooth, fast, comfortable, heavy, spacious GT car.
Personally, I'm not a fan of the T. If you wanted a stripped-down, more "pure" driving machine, then just get the 718 GTS 4.0 which cost a lot less. Otherwise I think the base or Carrera S are better options.
but then you would still have a cayman... and base 911 doesn't offer manual.
Tell me you never drove one without telling me you never drove one.
@@MrSchn3ll Have you ever driven a 718 Cayman in anger? I have owned both a 911 and Cayman and if your point is you are all about the 911 superiority complex then I can't help you. I simply don't care what other's think about what I'm driving. To me, having the engine in the right place on both track and road is paramount. Your mileage may vary of course. There is NOTHING that puts a smile on my face like tossing a light weight, smaller mid-engine car into a corner... and I'm certainly not thinking about 911 elitists while I'm doing it! I also have a 600+ hp GTR but guess which car I'm normally in on the backroads?
I own one. @@MrSchn3ll
ECU tune helps, extra juice, flaps open, and drop the TT for some wildness in the rear.
Who needs viagra when you have savagegeese
Negawatt
Negawaaaatt
Your description beginning at 8:20 could have been exactly the same for the Honda/Acura NSX 30 years ago - minus the "boring" part. 😉