EV One Year On - Would I still buy one?
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
- One year ago I bought my Kia EV6 primarily to tow my caravan. One year on after much joy and a LOT of stress, would I still buy one?
00:00 - Introduction
00:45 - Battery Provenance - the shameful truth behind EV Batteries
02:09 - The carbon footprint of an EV
02:52 - Air Pollution - The No.1 risk to health in the world
04:14 - Powering EVs - are we just moving the carbon out of our cities?
04:39 - The Grim Reality of Charging an EV at a Public Charger in the Winter
06:14 - Disadvantages vs Advantages of an EV
07:58 - Would I have bought an EV knowing what I know now?
09:18 - Further details, conclusion
10:26 - Outro
The range of my EV while towing has been the least of my worries, and if you want more details about the range of the EV while towing then please check out my tours from last year:
• EV & Caravan Towing
• EV towing a caravan to...
If you'd like more details about towing with an EV and to find out if an EV is right for YOU, please check out my video 'Towing with an EV':
• Towing with an EV
In this video I address the question 'Would I have bought an EV a year ago knowing what I know now?'
There are lots of advantages of towing a caravan with an EV, but there are some huge disadvantages as well.
There were two things that I was not aware of when I bought my EV, and that is the Cobalt Mining that is necessary for the production of EV batteries, and also the fact that the rate of charge slows right down when the temperature is below zero, making Ultra-Rapid Chargers practically redundant. Then there is the huge stress of queueing at public chargers.
One thing I discovered in my research is how Air Pollution is largest environmental threat to public health in the UK, and I believe around the world. To find out more, please check out the UK Government Document at:
www.gov.uk/government/publica...
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My diesel does 70mpg, I will stick with it for a few more years. I would not be able to tolerate the waiting to charge. It takes less than 10 minutes to fill my tank.
as Evs become more and more popular i think the charging issues will get a lot worse before they get better. I can see road rage going to a whole new level
I agree with the road rage.
I see service stations with chargers, but I do not see any formal queueing arrangements, so if you turn up and the chargers are all occupied, and there are several vehicles waiting, who / what is ensuring the first vehicle that arrived gets the next available charger?
As I write this, the same point is being made in the video 5:22
Question: What do driving an EV, eating a plant based diet, and being trans/non-binary have in common? Answer: They have nothing to do with anyone else, yet some people chose to get their knickers in a twist about them. One can only assume that those people have issues themselves...? And by the way, I'm only two out of the three; both my trans friends are meat-eating petrol heads... ;@)
Totally agree ❤
Have they been giving you grief again?! Yes, they are the ones with issues! Even if you were all three, it's none of their business so **!@*!! to them!! xx
Haters going to hate. You are an example to us all.
Good point Andrew. I think you should pin this comment
In theory what you say is true, Andrew, but the reality is somewhat different. Taking them one by. I have no trouble with people choosing an EV. I couldn't begin to afford one but I have no problem with people spending their money on items of their choosing. It doesn't affect me in any way. So as far as that one goes I agree with you. Secondly, there is a common joke about vegans. "How do you tell a vegan? You don't. They'll tell you." And there you have it. I have no difficulty with people choosing a meat free diet but many vegan activists do have have a problem with my diet, which does contain meat. I'm not just a meat eater, I'm evil because, according to them, I don't care about the planet. Finally, with the trans agenda. Anybody is free to identify as whatever they want. It is not my business. Where it does become my business is where trans activists insist that I believe a lie - that trans men are real men and trans women are real women and as such are entitled to the benefits of hard won sex based rights. You live in Scotland, Andrew, so you must be aware of the mess the SNP got itself into on the trans issue. I wish that what you wrote in your comment was true but it simply isn't.
Key point about cobalt, EV battery manufacturers are researching ways to remove the need for cobalt and many have already achieved this. Oil companies also use cobalt to remove sulphur from diesel, they don't care where it comes from and have no plans to stop using it.
That's 3 of us saying the same about Cobalt! 👍
@@rogerstarkey5390 now 4 of us. it would of been good to reference the oil industry and the higher % of colbalt use and as far as i know it is not recyclable unlike cobalt in batteries
Tesla is actively phasing it and all rare earth out of its mfg.
Sorry Andrew, but just over a minute in I must correct a few points.
Lithium ion cells.
All EVs use them.
Two basic categories.
"LiFePo4" (AKA "LFP")
Lithium Iron Phosphate.
Use zero Cobalt, zero Nickel.
They are the favourite cell chemistry for many Chinese manufacturers, since China had until recently held patents related to their production.
.
Nikel based chemistries DO use Cobalt (although not as much as many would have you believe)
They have greater energy density and as such obviously require less material than the Iron based options.
They are of course lighter as a result and therefore provide better efficiency.
.
Side note.
There's some confusion in certain circles between "Lithium IRON" and "Lithium ION"
(They're the same thing, "Iron is a constituent, "Lithium" brings "Ions" to the table.)
.
Mining.
First, we should note that in all but two countries (Australia and Morocco) Cobalt is largely a byproduct of other mining.
.
The "inconvenient truth" forgotten by many it the use of Cobalt in the desulphurisation of fossil fuels since the 1960's.
You will be told "a tiny amount per gallon (latterly litre)" but, many billions (trillions) of gallons over that period.
.
I'd make a large bet that little concern was given to sources or conditions until it became politically advantageous to deflect attention towards the new technologies?
.
Nickel mining
Russia was third on the list before "recent events". They were way behind Indonesia and the Philippines who when combined produced 4.5 times the volume of Russia.
There's plenty of Nickel available, with countries such as Australia emerging as a reliable source.
.
Well done for pointing out the use of Lithium ion cells in "other devices" (incidentally with *much* greater percentages of Cobalt in those cells)
The irony is that the fast emerging industry concerned with recycling Lithium Cells from the EV industry will not only collect *ALL* vehicle cells (among the most valuable components of a scrapped vehicle) but they will also now provide a resource to collect and recycle those "other device" cells which can literally be "thrown in" with the vehicle cells.
Recent reports from an industry leader, Redwood materials indicate they have already achieved better that 90% recycling the battery constituents, providing better quality material than the original stock.
Their aim is to reach 95% or more. Which will result in material at only 17% the cost of that original stock, with (obviously) comparable reductions in both energy use and pollution reduced when mining.
This leads nicely to the reminder these materials are mined *one time* then remain in the system, with potentially unlimited recycling.
..... Unlike previous "mine once, burn once/ repeat" alternatives.
.
Back to the video!!!!
😁
Cheers Roger, and thanks for doing the honours once again.
Is it true that an old ev battery may not be recycled but repurposed into a less demanding role
Imagine a journey like you had to Dover with a young family. That terrible trip with young kids would be totally unviable.
In that case, you don’t buy one. He’s talking about his experience relative to his own circumstances….
@@zwieseleryes but....we are going to be forced into them
@@piglet5287 Sure, that's why people are paying half a million dollars for 1972 GTHO Falcons. Seriously, mate... the only forcing is being done by the market.
@@zwieseler you not heard of the EU, Ulez zones, government subsidies etc.?
@@piglet5287 How does a govt subsidy "force" you to do anything. It's an incentive.
Hi Andrew, I appreciate that an EV works for you and your lifestyle. You are a single man transporting you and your dogs, working independently and flexibly towing a very small caravan. However many people have families and need significantly larger vans. They have fixed places of work and can not work independently using the internet, and finally they may have limited fixed holidays or kids in school. So their holidays have to be squeezed into a small period of time and if distant they do not have the time to wait for their car to be recharged whilst travelling to their destination.
I want a clean environment for myself and my family, but the current available EVs are too limited in their ability to deliver the flexibility of use to sensibly allow me to tow my van. I am really pleased that your lifestyle allows you to use one but I feel that for many of us that is still some way in the future. This aspect of using EV's for towing was absent from your report. I applaud you on battery provenance as many evangelical EV supporters miss this criminal use of forced child labour. I had not appreciated my own hypocrisy regarding cobalt in my mobile phone yet was aware of it in EVs. But like EV drivers I will have to ignore it as there is little alternative currently.
A really good report which in my opinion would be better balanced had you mentioned that they can not yet support a large number of people's lifestyles. I enjoy your reports always even if I don't always 100% agree with your observations, Keep up the good work.
Thanks Colin
I agree with your comments.
The cobalt mining network was largely set up and used by the oil giants (cobalt is utilised in the refining of petrol and diesel) and then adopted by portable electronics manufacturers (although it is used for other things too). I find it interesting that it's been used for decade's by these other industries and no one has been bothered about it. When EV's start utilising it, they are evil. That's the power of the fossil fuel lobby.
However, in just 10 short years EV manufacturers have started to move away from cobalt. 50 % of all Tesla's sold in 2022 have no cobalt in their batteries.
Also worth pointing out that EV batteries are about 95% (by weight) recyclable.
If you drive a diesel, far more cobalt dug up by children will be used to remove the Sulphur than has ever gone into an EV battery.
Either way I think it is now too late to prevent catastrophic climate change as your post points out, changing lifestyle is too inconvenient to consider.
Do keep in mind that the cobalt in old EV batteries will eventually be reclaimed and reused. The cobalt used to filter diesel is used once and wasted.
You could hire an ice vehicle for the week or so to your van? Maybe an option
It's not just the appalling processes it takes to create an EV, but at the end of its useful life, its safe disposal too.
I would imagine most are bought on the premise of paying the depreciation over three years, and then handing it back, to only repeat the cycle once more, all the while overlooking the vehicles true legacy.
The reality is that batteries have a second and even a third life in stoic storage. Then the materials will be recycled as the minerals are valuable.
@@zzbuckley White Gold ( Uranium).
In an almost 18,000-acre area, the operation would disturb more than 5,600 acres of land, including impacts to golden eagles and some sage grouse habitat.
The sulfur would be burned and mixed with water to produce as much as 5,800 tons of toxic sulfuric acid each day. Two 350-foot-high dumps with a capacity of 354 million cubic yards of mine waste would tower over the dirt road he uses to check on his grazing cattle in the mountains.
An ICE vehicle can have a use far beyond the third life cycle ,every classic car show clearly demonstrates this.
Utter nonsense. Most modern ev batteries will outlive the car they are installed in. After the car they have a second life as battery banks. After that they are still fully recyclable.
You didn't mention the up-front cost of buying an EV against a petrol/diesel vehicle. You can buy a decent towing vehicle second hand for a fraction of the price of an EV. If you cannot charge at home (as I cannot) then you have to use the public system and, as you discovered, the network is a bad joke. I live a short walk from my local petrol station (which does not have EV charging points) and I needed to fill the car before a long journey. My petrol range showed 30 miles when I left my house and 450 miles after I returned from filling up. The whole procedure, from leaving home to returning took 8 minutes. When I can find an EV that can re-charge that quickly and cost the same as my petrol driven car, I may think about getting one. At the moment I would not entertain one.
Can't believe you got rid of your nearly fully recyclable gaining in value Airstream
Andrew Thanks for your update and honest review, you are always so sincere. I do think your EV is one of the best looking cars on the road today.
Sorry Andrew but you can't compare your Pickup to an EV, My MPV can and has done 64mpg and is one step up from a hybrid being a Euro 6, I fill it up once and drive to Scotland and half way back and only have to stop Once, I am all for green energy but they don't have the fuel range and standing around for 4 to 8 hours on a one way trip in winter is not an option, Plus that adds another day to your journey, And when Towing the fuel range of an EV is cut in half again, It works for you because you run to your own schedule but in every day life Fuel Range is every thing, If I could buy an EV with a Gauranteed 500/600 mile fuel range then I would buy one in a heartbeat But all EV makers Lie about the range of their Vehicles and if they say it will do 300 miles you can bet the real figures are closer to 200 to 230 miles, Add on a Caravan and that will drop down around 120, But my MPV/Van will do 850+ miles on a single tank of fuel and it only has a smallish tank, and with the cost of fuels and/or recharging nower days EV's are far from being practicle because all of the above. Sorry you can pretty it up and use Death figures all you like, But they don't change a thing, And the Government are pushing this EV crusade but then they add an extra runway at Heathrow where One Jet taking off Every 90 seconds puts out enough pollution to equal 6000 HGV's on the Road for a whole Day, But the Government promote that and passes the Buck on to the Mortorist saying they are to Blaim, we don't need 5 runways and if we went back to 3 runways we had we could reach Net Zero withIn the Next 5 days at the most,, But the Government say it will bring new business to the UK so they admit it is all about Money and Not the Heath of dying Children, EV's are not the Answer and these Green Zones are a Joke because Heathrow and Gatwick and London Airports all Happen to be right in the middle of the ULEZ Green Zones, You want to see more Children Live then Shut down the Extra Runways, I have changed my Vehicles 3 times now because of the Governments new Hair Brained Scheems and I have lost a lot of Money thanks to them, You have Honourable intentions but as good as it is it is wasted because Money and Shareholders are the UK Governments Priority and until that stops Children will keep dying. Great Video as always Major Thumbs Up.
You don’t need an EV, just a dictionary and a lie down 😂
Another brilliant, informative and beautifully filmed video Andrew. Thank you for making this content.
My pleasure!
Very interesting episode, Andrew. Hits the nail on the EV head so many times. Rapid charging problems are certainly a huge issue, and I wonder how you'd manage if, like me, you couldn't charge at home (I live in a city and it's an absolute nightmare). Thanks so much!
I certainly wouldn’t call driving an EV stress-free!! Especially when you’ve got less than 50 miles left!😂
Thanks again. My friend got caught out on charging on route to inverness and had to spend night in bunkhouse in Drumnadrochit ...not happy wuth charge speed but grateful to people that helped him out.
Glad it was yes. Still waiting on my new ev but will start towing this spring with an ev rental. Looking forward to the experience.
Ditto, my friend, I thought the insight of your set up is a testament to the future of touring. Am one of the polluting petrol heads at the moment. If choice was available and affordable, along with meeting my needs to carry on touring with our caravan I’d jump at the chance.
As it stands , these EVs aren’t economically viable and unsuitable to meet our needs. Thank you for making the vlog.
Take a look at one of the summaries of the recent Tesla Investor Day.
The "cheaper" EVs are coming! (And much more!)
Thank you for your honest story about the EV. In the Netherlands they now forbid EV's in underground parkings beneath your home.. (not the public underground parkings) because of fire hazard. An EV is almost not possible to extinguish (to get the fire out...excuses when i spell it wrong..)
So there are a lot of things that have to improve. The waiting for charging is also in the Netherlands dramatic. When you go to France ore Spain it is even more dramatic. You wil find no space to park your caravan in the summer holidays... Don't even try it when everebody goes to the south in Europe... That is why i still drive a petrol car...Also because of the prize of the EV's that can tow a caravan.... My car new was 23.000 euro. Can pull 1500 kg. What EV car can do that. I have a pension and i don't have the money for an EV that can do the same. Then there are the costs for loading at home. 3000 euro for just the loading station... Yes i have solar pannels but than i have to charge it during the day. Batteries for solar panels to load the car in the night are very expensive....
Thank you again for your honest video! Hug for the dogs! Love them. ❤👍👍👍
In the USA I noticed a few charging sites at rest areas..very few. Also noticed some charging sites and soecial parking where my son works at an Amazon distribution center in Washington state.
Love this , however when I can drive to Cornwall in one go in an EV and charge it in the same time it takes to fill my current car then I will be interested .
Can you imagine trying to charge up with a family on a long trip it’s just not practical .
Always nice to see a balanced argument
Andrew, an excellent, honest and trustworthy review of what can be a very emotive topic on both sides of the argument.
Another great video and an eye opener at that! Thanks Andrew 👍👍
Hi Andrew, thank you so much for your nice and informative videos. This summer we will experience the towing with an EV and a caravan as we have bought an Volvo XC40 Recharge Twin and a Kabe 470 Estate, so excited I can't wait. Yes I live in Sweden 🙂 Big thumbs up I'm a big fan of your videos. I have learnt so much from your videos. Thanks. PS we have two Jack Russells with us DS.
Sounds great!
Hi Andrew! Great video again thank you! The electric car you have looks nice and compared to other Kia’s I have seen for sale seems like great value for money. I’m surprised by how many large electric vehicles, which you think would have a large towing capacity, actually don’t allow towing at all. Great to see Dougal and Ted. So cute!
One moor excellent Vlog and topical subject to boot, keep up the good work
Catch you soon
Dave, Julie & Toby the woof
Many thanks!
Fantastic upload, at last someone who actually has done some research on the subject.I'm on my second EV.I had a Jaguar I pace, I now have a WV ID5 and the ID5 actually has better range and faster charging even in Winter,my car also has a heat pump .Thanks for posting.
@fsr - Does your car also have solar panels and a little pop-up wind turbine?
@The Irish Megaphone no and I had a Toyota CHR before this one and it had a flat 12volt battery every couple of days. Not good
@@fsr170409 That was the alternator. You could’ve changed that rather than the car.
Good video and great to understand the source for the raw materials for the battery tech.
Our strategy is to get a used small 5 door hatch EV for local trips that we can charge at home from solar. This will replace my wifes ICE car. However, I will keep my large petrol estate car for longer trips & vacations because I simply cannot deal with the public charging nightmare. The charging infrastructure needs major expansion to keep up with EV sales before I will have the confidence to go 100% electric.
They have no intention of expanding charging facilities. The whole aim is to get you off the road. That is why no one should be buying these cars; all they want is the elite rich able to travel, the plebs have to stay in 15 min cities.
Thank you Andrew for this very interesting review 👍😉
Thank you for this (what I experience) objective conclusion. It confirms me in choosing an EV as next car! For me a Volvo XC40 I expect....
Great point about the Apps providing a queueing function Andrew. One thing about cobalt and nickel, lithium iron Phosphate batteries have niether, are not flammable. They don't have the same toxic ingredients, are cheaper to produce, can be kept at 100% state of charge and have a higher cycle life. They are however slightly less power dense, but companies like CATL with thier Blade batteries, are minimising this downside. Ironically, most Chinese vehicals use Lifepo4 batteries. When looking at the MG line up, only the long range variants don't use Lifepo4 batteries. There is not a huge difference in actual range, so the cheaper models are arguably more desirable from an environment perspective. Other emerging chemistrys like Sodium batteries will make the current concerns a thing of the past. European manufacturers need to be faster to respond to new alternatives.
Pleased to see that you kept your nerve Andrew! I have an Ioniq5 and have just done the first tow of my Eriba Triton 420. I managed 2.4 miles/kWh on a 90 mile each way proving run. I remember you mentioning that you would like to see how an Eriba performs and would be happy to share my experience.
Wow, THAT is impressive! Thanks for sharing.
I have an EV6 and tow an Eriba Troll 530 and get similar results. It shows that towing range is less to do with weight and more to do with aerodynamics. You’ll squeeze even more out if it in summer.
I had to look back at Andrew's review when he went to Dusseldorf last year. He said that was 2.2 miles/kWh for his Elddis Explore. So it is better, but not by as much as I would have expected. However, Caravan Salon is late summer, so the EV range would have been better then. It would be good to do a true like for like comparison, so same season, speed etc. Perhaps you and Andrew can do a 'race' like that.
@@Alex-ek5fb Yes, temperature does come into it. And speed too. It was around 11c on my trip of 90 miles averaging 53mph. I'm hopeful of bettering 3 miles/kWh on summer days - providing I don't go too mad on speed on the motorways...
So good to know that all I have to do to get absolutely true facts is to look up official government figures and findings. Who'd have thought that it was so simple ? I can now write out a £55.000 cheque for my new EV6 with complete peace of mind, Thank you so much.
You devil😂😂😂👍
No mention of the massive reduction in range towing causes
Excellent video as usual. Nothing I disagree with. There are now EVs on the market with LFP rather than NMC batteries. Those use no cobolt nor nickel and are much cheaper too (the single motor Tesla Model Y for example). The downside? A shorter range due to much lower energy density. Therefore, for towing caravans not yet a solution. Andrew, you are a pioneer - and pioneers usually suffer. However, you are clearing a path for all of us who will follow as ICE vehicles gradually disappear. I am not willing to suffer this much pain and plan to use my Model Y with a tent, not a caravan. But over time, things will improve in 3 ways: 1) the charging infrastructure will improve, this is already starting to happen 2) Range on towcars will improve. This is also already happening 3) Caravans themselves will improve. Many possibilities here: return of pop tops (Eriba Touring, or better still, bring back the Gobur!) all the way to caravans with their own battery and motor to reduce the strain on the tow car. Knaus already tested a prototype of this a few years back and Winnebago is doing something similar on the other side of the pond. When on site, such a caravan battery can be used for cooking, heating etc. completing the zero fossil fuel experience. Large solar panel arrays on top of caravans will become commonplace. It will take 10 years, but all of this will happen.
A good balanced view. I do tour with a caravan using a model Y, and it certainly does take a bit of planning. My family and I went on a trip in December for a Christmas winter wonderland trip. It was -6C, and while it did have an impact on range, it wasn't as bad as I thought compared to what's published in the media. We travelled just over 100 miles, and if I remember correctly, I had 28% battery left on arrival.
So the conveniences of towing definitely favour the ICE, but only in terms of range. Everything else from torque to low centre of gravity makes the experience in every other way so much better. I'm hoping next year to do a tour of Europe with my caravan, but I'm under no illusions it will take some planning.
Cheers Alex!
Thank you
I didn't see whether you rules out a model Y Andrew but choosing a Tesla would have given you a much better charging experience.
Very interesting video as always. They really need to address the charging issues as it’s putting a lot of people, including me off buying one
I have owned 4 EVs and have never had an issue with charging.
@@t4bs594 presumably you can charge at home?
We were delighted to host you and your lovely crew (Dougal and Ted) at Cholsey Grange CL today. Great that you could make use of our on-site EV charger for your Kia car.
Very informative video... and so superbly and skillfully put together... thankyou!
I have a Swift Challenger 580 and store it in Cornwall, I don’t tow it at the moment and think I would need a very large and very expensive EV to tow a caravan of that weight. As the caravan was such a long distance, I converted a small van to pop top campervan in 2018 to supplement my holidays and short breaks. It was a small Nissan NV200 and I really enjoyed using it. I decided very recently to replace it for a larger pop top campervan and all I could get for my budget was another diesel vehicle.
I had a drive of a friend's EV this week. First time I've driven one, and it is very nice. I have to admit I do feel like a dinosaur owning a diesel, and I have 101 excuses for not getting one. I'd need to downsize the caravan for a start. I like them, though..
Very informative vlog, thanks for sharing
Not as much as a dinosaur as an EV driver waiting for hours stationary, waiting in turn for a free rapid charger.
My i4 can pull up to 1600kg, so not too shabby.
Cheers Graham. Once you've towed with one it's hard to go back. Thanks for keeping an open mind - do YOU have any idea why EVs are so polarising? I can't work it out.
@@andrewjditton I think some people associate petrol cars as part of their teenage years, and probably worked on them with their dads etc. So being pushed into EVs is almost akin to rubbishing their fond memories. Maybe. But even when presented with hard facts, they deny them like a Flat-Earther. Convinced we’ve all been brainwashed and conned. Then they call us EV-angelists. Then you have the likes of The Macmaster stirring up the nay-sayers into an angry mob with pitch forks.
Replaced my written-off hybrid 30,000 miles ago with an EV (Kia Soul), and don't regret it at all. The only real challenge is the number of broken chargers, and the myriad of apps you need if you want freedom across different chargers. Living near a Gridserve Services is a massive boon though... X
Andrew another great review, for me its early days to invest in an electric car. Living in an appartement there is no way one could charge the car, this will change in time.
Great video as usual! Hopefully with updates Kia/Hyundai cars will get better with slow ultra rapid winter charging, not sure about other cars but my previous Audi Etron didn’t have the same issues! I wonder how your experience would have been in a Tesla? Thanks again for what you’re are doing!!
Tesla precondition batteries for faster charging, so do Mercedes.
@@grahamleiper1538 Yes they make the batteries warm!
i liked your review the only regret i have is that i bought a vw id4 if it was again i would have bought the kia ev6 i live in ireland and a full battery will get me to any part of the country. we are also been ripped of with high public charging costs but luckily i rarely have to use them so far home charging is adequate for me.
Interesting video. Thanks for sharing.
Many thanks Andrew, very interesting. Take care.
Very informative Andrew. Nice research.
Sorry Andrew but an average of 50kw demand distributed through a grid running at 2.5Kv further down the line with move Ev's., it won't work. This struggles with kettle demand at 2kw during peak times and renewables plus the existing makeweights will simply not produce the juice for the demand under those circumstances. Bio fuels are the way forward with hybrids until 80 years when fusion , storage or superconductors may be workable. I actually live in a van full time so I'm relient on renewables so I'm not anti. Ev's are the new Betamax. your pickup was the way to go in my opinion but respect your views and enjoy your channel
A well researched and explained video, Andrew. Well done.
Glad you liked it John, cheers!
Two of the cutest co-stars on RUclips. Thanks for sharing!
Great video Andrew,
Great video yet again. I did some calculations today, based on 7,000 miles per year, charge 80% at home on EV tariff. EV at 3 miles per kWh compared to 45mpg car, so excluding any towing. It would save only £300 per year, before difference in maintenance is considered, say maybe £500 a year in total. Given the extra cost of an EV, and it's inability to effectively tow long distances due to charging with a caravan, it's still very much a no way for first family car for us. An EV would work as a second car very well though, as long as there are no massive bills in the future for control or battery issues.
Big thumb up for the numberplate side band 👍
An EVs make sence in big city's. I live 30km away at the country site. With the Caravan in tow, I never drive into city's. Let's talk about cost's, by towing a small Caravan. I' ve just hat an Ionic 5 to test. Price 60k, 60kW/100 Miles, 0,75€ / KW, was about 45€ per 100 Miles. My acual car: VW Golf 7 TDI, price 40k, 15l /100 Miles, 1,65€ /liter, was below 24€ per 100 Miles. Buying the car is +50% and cost of electricity would be dubble the price. That is hell a lot of money. Loading trouble: I don't have to explain, that the diesel filling last's 300Miles. EV is charging every 120 Miles. The biggest issue: Taking off the Caravan at every charger. To disconnect the plug, you' ll have to lay under the car. You can't even see the power outlet for the trailer at Hyundai and Kia EV's. For me it seems quite clear: I'll stay with the Diesel. With 7,2MPG, adblue injection and fine dust filter, it doesn't seem to be that bad, to the environment. The heavy Hyundai 5 EV (+500Kg to the Golf) went up 45KW/Mile. Isn't that a waste of energy? Traveling Power for the caravan: A 100ah lithium battery and a 150W Solar panel is all I need. Cheaper than an EV as a powerstation. 😅
I agree with everything you've said Andrew. But I do still think that comparing your EV to a Nissan Navara is not a reasonable like for like comparison.
I had a Navara and I loved it. But it is a pretty basic, slightly rough around the edges vehicle.
And yes, it does vibrate and you do readily feel the revs etc.
My Discovery is night and day in comparison. It is quiet and smooth at all speeds.
I also borrowed a discovery sport PHEV and other than the rev counter kicking in, I couldn't really tell when the petrol engine was firing up.
It would be interesting to see a side by side comparison between your EV and a mid-sized, economical tow car better matched to a caravan similar to yours than say a Navara or my Discovery.
EV's make zero sense for caravan holidays unless your idea of a holiday is going to one or two campsites less than 100 miles from where you live and doing nothing much but sitting around all day which, granted, this suits more people than I care to think about. If you want to travel any kind of distance or go to Europe, forget it. Rant over. Love the channel btw!
When you say "go to Europe", do you mean "while towing a caravan" or without? We're thinking of doing a trip down to the South of France or Spain but with superchargers, I'm not concerned.
That's without a caravan though and I'm inclined to agree with you. It's not the range so much but that each time, it would need to be unhitched to charge and that would quickly become a drag.
Cheers. But I did Scotland to Kent in 2 days towing...
@@andrewjditton Did you have to unhitch for each charge? That seems like the part that would be the biggest niggle if you just want to get on.
I've just bought one last week (got lucky, the normal wait is 12-16 months now!) and the plan is to charge at home only, if possible. The price per kWh can be 20x - 30x cheaper if I use the grid at it's lowest load, compared to fast chargers. In addition, I have my own solar system. Some say the battery will degrade quickly, but that is just false info.
My Nissan leaf 30 kwhr has lost 25 % battery capacity and range in 7 years and 30 k miles. 'Battery life' s id3 has lost 10% capacity in 2 years and James Cooke's model S had a totally nackered traction battery after just over 7 years, which he replaced at massive cost at his own expense.
All lithium ion batteries degrade with time and cycles at differing rates but they all do degrade, you can't avoid it.
@@stevezodiac491 The Leaf had a known design flaw in temperature management, and the id3 might be another example. There might be some bad ones out there but most data will show that the cells' degradation is actually lower than estimated. Nothing lasts forever.
Great video Andrew. Really informative. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Hang on Andrew I remember about a month ago on an open chat line in your house about the time of the caravan show that you would go back to the internal combustion engine
I've have mine for 2 years and life it's better with it. There's no real winter where I live so no problems with the cold and even with those Kw increasing in price I save a lot. I was expending180-200 on gas every month and doing the same I'm usually around 70 charging. I expect that to be reduce even farther when I have solar before the end of the year.
I found it great to see a video with the car on a boat, I was worried the first time a I boarded one because I thought they'd charge me more for the extra weight but they don't care.
So you don't care about where the electricity is generated from and the harm this is causing to child slaves in the Congo But hey, it's a great virtue signal right? The internationally accepted religion.
@Ezio Auditore I know where and how electricity is generated where I live. 40% renewable on average this month, before the end of the year itd be my own solar. And I do care about the other issues, but there are ways to offset that. It's the least of 2 evils..after all traditional ICE cars have similar issues that shouldn't be overlooked when comparing. Almost everyday tech has traces of materials from problematic sources but it only enters the discussion when talking about EVs. I don't like that double standard
@@samuxan 40% is nowhere near the norm - certainly not here in the UK - mainly because they include biomass in the stats which is hardly eco-friendly. I believe this nonsense has become the new religion, and people like nothing better than to virtue signal to the rest of its adherents that they 'care about the environment'. When challenged on the issues regarding where the electricity comes from or the plight of children literally working their fingers to the bone in the Congo - or even the complete inability to recycle the awful batteries - they have no answer other than 'it's the lesser of two evils'. Not for those children, I'm guessing.
@Ezio Auditore if you do a bit of research only 49% of cobalt from that country ends up in batteries since it has other uses. And out if that 49% about 60% is for car batteries. So less that 30% of the suffering of that industry could be traced back to EVs. Why don't we talk about the other 70% of any other technology, including other kinds of cars?
@@samuxan If that makes you feel better, you run with it. Fine.
I feel your pain with public charging. The queues are generally horrendous and the charging costs at service station extortionate. The charging times during winter as you say are a far cry from the 150-300 kw/hr.
Hi Andrew, interesting video and honest appraisal. We tour Europe a lot and the problem in Europe with so many services , is that if your disconnect the caravan in for example the HGV parking area, you are often not able to get back to it as exiting is often a one way system, you then end up back on the Autoroute or Motorway.
The fact of having to even disconnect the caravan sometimes would be a total aggravation, let alone the waiting and queuing times.
Indeed, do check out my other vids Dave. Cheers.
Amazing content. I’ve escaped most of that misery as I don’t travel too far in winter or at peak times. Let’s see what this summer brings.
Hi, thanks for your video. .👍🏻the only gripe i have about EV’S is in the case of varying charging costs. Where i live in Argyll & Bute it is 0.26p per kw drawn. Whereas, some other charging providers like geniepoint ( one is now in Dumbarton at morrison’s ) you can be charged upwards of 0.76p per kw. If i went there all the time it would cost me more than when i used to have a petrol car. Even on motorway services in UK are expensive. So the long and short of it is, some charging point companies are ripping off bastards.
It's only going to go northwards.... once enough are on the wagon. I suspect strongly north as well.
My experience with three years with a Tesla Model 3 is different to yours. The Tesla Supercharger network is pretty seamless. I did experience slow winter charging on a recent trip to Glen Coe in Scotland. I had to use a third party charger and the Tesla does not preheat for those so I was pulling around 20 kw to start with. This was solved later in the trip when I realised our accommodation had a destination charger.
What an extremely helpful video.
Are you willing to say roughly which part of Scotland you are travelling from - I wasn’t sure if it was glencoe in your video.
I’ve nervously taken the plunge, fully aware it needs a change of driving mindset, and the journey of most concern is 210 miles to my parents in the highlands.
Of course, I know if I make there, I can charge at their home :-)
I’m sure public charging will continue to improve, although in the Highlands? Not so sure.
The EV6 is a brilliant car too!
Hi Nik, I live in the Outer Hebrides. On my route to/from home via Skye, the only 'black spot' is between Fort William and Kyle of Lochalsh. Check out Charge Place Scotland for an up to date map. Cheers!
In 2001 I didn't get a diesel Sprinter, as I was a trucker and didn't want the noise when not at work!
I have a Tesla mod.Y and have no issues with charging stolls or charging speed. I live in Norway, and we have a lot of places to charge. And I am toweing a T@B 320😃
Fantastic work Andrew! About to start towing an Action Adria 361 LT with the Model Y and we are petrified! (Aged 83 and 75 so we cant get out and push!) No one seems to be covering what happens when crossing mountains. We live 600 metres up north of Melbourne and every direction is hilly BUT amazingly we do have a 50 kw charger in three directions. So we can get a boost at the bottom but access is terrible. What happens in an EV towing a caravan when you run out of puff on a steep hill? Does it just stop or does it blow a fuse etc. Pet treats aka coffee for Ted and Dougal have been purchased by Nikki and Dash our border collies.Thanks as always for the enjoyment and knowledge sharing we get from your videos.
I don't think you'll run out of puff on a steep hill. As lomg as you have enough charge, the Model Y is a towing beasty. Bjorn Nyland (look him up) towed a friend's boat up a mountain, and was overtaking ICE cars along the way.
100%. Thanks for helping me out Nick!
@@andrewjditton My pleasure Andrew. Too many ignorant people about. No research, no foresight, no willingness to adopt new ways, no idea that cobalt is used to refine petrol and diesel. I’ll keep you posted on my 300 mile trip to Cornwall in August, towing my 1460 kg Elddis Avante 574.😎
Thank you all for sharing experiences.
Andrew, Cobalt is also heavely used for desulfication in the petrochemical industry to create Diesel etc..
An interesting report as usual, however a further consideration has to be long term battery disposal at the end of the vehicle's life where do all those batteries go ?
First they are repurposed into battery systems that don't have the high demands of EVs such as into house batteries. Then in many years time when that 'life' is over every bit of the battery can be recycled and the components used to make new batteries.
The components are too valuable to just throw away
They are recycled, first in stationary storage - to provide power to the national grid during peak times. Later, they are recycled and the materials recovered. No one is going to dump these materials, as they are far too valuable.
Andrew
Many thanks for this interesting video
The difference between the phone lithium battery and EV car batteries is that you have no choice with a phone…you forgot to mention that.
I think that lack of choice will be the same for cars in the not too distant future (2030)? You forgot to mention that…
@@nohedes ..hydrogen and synthetic fuels.
@@johnmackay5288 Thanks, I was referring to the ban on sale of new ICE only cars in the UK from 2030 (and hybrids from 2035). Not many hydrogen powered vehicles on the market at the moment and similar problems in terms of supply of fuel etc, as well as space issues and need to transport the fuel). Synthetic fuel doesn’t seem to solve much of the CO2 issue at the tail pipe, plus uses lots of CO2 to produce (as well as vast amounts viable agricultural land). Presumably if there was the choice of a phone that ran on hydrogen or synthetic fuels you’d have chose that instead?
fingers crossed battery pre heating is on the way not sure if the EV6 needed certain options like eco pack on the ioniq 5 so when the software updates arrives you will get better charging speeds. my new MY23 Niro has battery pre heating
What is the range when towing and do you have to unhook to recharge?
Hi, please check out my channel page. All this has been covered in earlier videos. Thanks!
Great work again Andrew......
Interesting vid… you have confirmed Tesla’s strategy was very smart in providing their own, properly resourced charging infrastructure. I have just made the switch to EV and having done all the research, they are still the only credible game in town
Excellent video, I agree with you totally:
Thanks for watching!
Andrew, it's a good thing you do😎 I'm very happy that you are continuing with your EV. Things will improve.
Very interesting Andrew. One question I ask as a Diesel tow car owner, what is your towing range before needing to charge please ?
You live in the Islands where the impact of combustion engines is nil, and the Calmac Ferry is not even on the Scale. Good luck running one of those Ferries on Battery. The Four-hour charge would have taken you nearly halfway to your journey, please go into your nearest garage for a quote for your car.
The queuing booking system has to be based on a timed booking(late and the next car takes your place) and the booking slots password controled to prevent anyone queue jumping. There is a lot of thought that needs to go in it. In principle I would love an electric car but the way my life works I just cannot factor in the time to manage all of the daily charging etc etc.
Andrew how do you find tyre wear with the added torque, are you getting decent milage to a tyre?
Added torque but FAR better traction control(!)
Torque makes no difference using correct accelerator control, although the extra weight of an EV can wear out tyres more quickly evidence suggests but not noticeably so.
Hi Anne! I'll be at the NEC in October so will no doubt see you then. Glad you got Mum into a good home. Take care xx
I bought an EV 18 months ago. The winter range is reduced by approximately 100 miles. (Heater on less efficient power transfer from battery ) but my main complaint is the woeful charging infrastructure. I too live in Scotland (Fife) and the lack of rapid chargers and just more chargers in general is embarrassing. I only just found out that CPS (charge place Scotland) doesn’t own the EVSE’s. I found this out when I tried to charge at a CPS point and was told I couldn’t as it belonged to an operator that didn’t allow it, even though it had a CPS ID number. The SG isn’t putting enough EVSE’s in place but still crow about how much better than it is in the rUK. That doesn’t help if you live in Scotland. Of the EVSE’s that are installed on the public network very many are only 7kw and some have time limits. I saw one that had 40 minutes!! 7kw fir 40 minutes. They are having a laugh. Then we have EVSE’s that break down, regularly!! Then we have the EV drivers who can’t park in a lane then bugger off for 6 hours so no one else can charge in a bay. There’s still a long way to go and it’s almost as if the lack of EVSE’s is deliberate to Stop people owning a car.
I hear you! Yes, a lot of these new time limits don't even allow you to get to 80% - ludicrous!
Do you own a Tesla?
Brilliant video, thanks for the honest assessment. I do find it amusing when people use the EV cobalt argument. The fossil fuel industry is one of the biggest users of cobalt.
What happens when you need to replace the battery, at some point. That alone is a very big expense. Thanks Andrew I like the content, though 👍
Check out my earlier video from September. Experience is showing that the batteries are outlasting the cars.
I won’t be jumping to an EV anytime soon. Not particularly concerned with the climate ‘crisis’ which I think is being pushed as a political agenda. The air pollution argument is the best one for me, that EV cars will make the air we breathe cleaner which is obviously better.
Think the pace of change needs to be slowed down for the majority of the population. I’ll be buying high mpg petrol/diesel cars for the next decade at least.
Good video and can see why it works for you
Hopefully, we’ll get better range PHEVs over the coming years. I can’t imagine getting a pure electric with the present charging infrastructure (and I have solar at home).
We’ve had a PHEV. They dont deliver on the promise.
Comparing to an unrefined dinosaur Nissan Navara is hardly a fair comparison of your EV to a combustion that are very good to excellent refined cars that tow easily with high mpg returns and have rapid refuelling.
My 'dinosaur' Nav was a 2015 model. Both cars weigh about the same.
Great coverage, the fire hazard seems to be a problem too - just seen a jaguar "melt" in Lincolnshire - the fire brigade can't put them out when they explode, yes I know petrol does that too, but for Holland to ban EVs from underground car parks is worrying.
There is no doubt in my mind that the EV is a short fix - Hydrogen is an all round better solution. Happy Camping.!
More queues are most likely, cause the number of cars is much faster increasing than the number of charging points.
For people in cities w/o private charger at home it is still a extremly annoying thing.
I'm kind of a nerd, was very early with driving an electrical car.
But I doubt the environment numbers your mentioned. Still plubished to proofe a point and anything but neutral.
In April, germany will close its last nuclear plant.
W/o russian gas, our CO² pollution is up again, firing coal instead of gas to produce electrical energy.IMO eFuels would have been the better "in-between" technology before we can provide enough clean produced electrical power.
It would have been a easy way to store weather dependent forms of clean energy as well.
Anynway, thx for sharing your experiences!
And always good to see a bit of Scotland and your two masters of the house! :)
CU in Scotland!
Interesting stuff. However I won't be making the leap from ICE to EV any time soon, and for a variety of reasons. One is the plain old fashioned cost of buying the thing, which is currently (sorry) way out of my league. Another is range, and what appears to be the considerable faff and wasted time spent re-charging. Then there's what I understand to be (though I'm happy to be proved wrong on this) the rather limited (compared to an ICE cars) average shelf life of an EV before major restorative work is needed on the batteries… or, presumably, the car is decommissioned - which does seem to offset the other environmental benefits. Then there's the carbon footprint of not just mining the elements needed to manufacture EV batteries, but shipping them to battery manufacturers, who then have to ship the batteries to car manufacturers. I think my biggest gripe, though, is that the industry appears to be leading us down the path of another fuel source that requires the mining and processing of yet more finite elements and seemingly ignoring much more plentiful (and renewable) hydrogen on the basis that 'we don't have the infrastructure'. Judging by your experiences over Christmas, we don't appear to have a workable charging infrastructure, either! All that said, it's a pleasure to watch a video on the subject that manages to remain neutral and balanced. Thank you, sir!
Cheers Mr Le Cap. So far evidence suggests that the battery will outlive the car. But you are right about the whole mining thing. I do feel that the uncomfortable truth is that car culture per se is unsustainable. But we all know that we will never see the cultural shift on a global scale that we need, so sticking plasters it is...
I have followed you for many years, and generally agree with you fully. Andrew don’t you find it cynical that we in the U.K. are cutting down on pollution in our country at the cost of increasing pollution and supporting Human RIghts violations in many others; Africa, Russia, China are the dumps of pollution so we can be healthier. No wonder so many people want to live in the U.K. as their own countries are being exploited to satisfy our need for energy. Enjoy the quiet ride, and patient queueing, especially as sales of EV’s outstrip construction of charging stations. I will just continue with my diesel car with no VED, because of it’s low emissions. Electrical energy generation in U.K. is dominated by the French under the guise of EDF energy.
The very people that are further polluting the planet are controlling the cost of EV’s supplied to the West. The UN has just announced today that the rich countries must do more to get to net zero; we may live in a ’rich’ country but the general population certainly paying for it at the moment. Sorry if my post is a little rant, please enjoy your travels.
TBH I agree with you Alan!
Wow great video , so professional......i like evs too , i had a kia soul lease great car , i leased a tesla model 3 amazing, i have now purchased a bmw i3 rex because i am not flush which is relatively poor , but the rex is great a proper ev with no downsides...
Thank you for such a balanced, well researched video. There are so many variables that are not thought of when buying any item - including EVs. We do need a structured approach to charging though. ⚡️
Interesting video, what happened to the airstream ?
A Tesla Model 3/Y and a folding camper might reduce some of these problems. The Tesla Superchargers are usually in banks of 8 at least, are reliable and integrated into route planning. Secondly, Teslas are efficient and have big batteries. Thirdly, folding campers are lighter than caravans and have lower aerodynamic drag. But there are lots of Teslas needing charging.
And of course Tesla are in the process of opening up their charging networks to other electric vehicles, so that will no doubt affect the charging experience for Tesla owners going forward.
@@nicholasbell9931Yep, but we don't know the details. I suspect Elon won't throw away this USP, but do enough to increase revenue to allow investment in more superchargers so that Tesla largely controls the whole EV charging network.