"Don't listen to people with opinion. Listen to people with experience" Nicely said. A great video. Didn’t think I would listen to the finish, but I did. Great job! Thank you 🙏
Listen to God, not the trained/certified EV battery technicians that follow code or protocols that are placed by the management that are placed by the elite criminals to control you for profit. The truth is that EV batteries in a car need 3A or less to maintain long battery life. Fast charging will degrade the battery quickly. That is for the conventional battery cells for the general consumer.
Ok, listen up. My present V90 is as new, at 92,000 miles. Previous Merc on 240,000, previous V70 on 430,000. Doing 50,000 to 80,000 miles a year and still going strong. Next....
@@SuperFredc , lol... there is always a couple of you turds in the comments. I guess you have no comprehensive skills do ya, just your "opinion" which we just learned is no good.
I've specialized in batteries for 25 years now and it really is an annoying career because so many people want to tell me how much more they know about batteries than I do. Unfortunately the vast majority of them have 10 pounds of opinion and 2 pounds of knowledge.
@@michelians1148 I was being sarcastic, engines don't have to be replaced all that often and when they do it's very rare occurrence. It's the same with electric vehicle batteries. Only the very first generation of model s's are coming up for replacement and they are the older cells that don't last very long. The current generation lasts 200,000 mi and still has 90% left but the new LFP batteries currently shipping in the Tesla model 3 lasts easily 500,000 miles
Thank you for bringing balance into this debate I am a petrol head and was completely anti ev till I watched this. What a pleasure to listen to the views of a properly knowledgeable person. Wanna search for any videos of the conversations that this company is active with
So am I Dave! My last two cars, Audi S5 with a remap to 450 BHP, then a 21 plate Hyundai i30N. I am now a proud owner of a Tesla model 3 Performace. 480 BHP and 0-60 in 3.2. What more does a petrol head need? I spend about 2-3 quid charging every week and do around 100 miles. Trust me, give them a try before you judge them. Oh and Tesla build quality isn’t great, I’ll admit that but get a good warranty and they are good at replacing everything.
I was and still am a petrol head at heart, but after driving a Tesla for a company car for the last year I really enjoyed the experience. I’ve now gone back to a motor (new company) and I can safely say I miss my Tesla, so my next car will be an EV.
This should be on a DVD with one's new EV with the manual. Something simple that new owners can watch to get them going. Actually, just READ the car's manual. It is spelled out clearly... (...what manual?)
great to have videos with the people that re-use second hand EV batteries! And fascinating to hear that the problem facing lithium battery recyclers is that the batteries are staying in use and so there are very few needing recycled!
Spot on observations, our 2016 Tesla X P100 w/140k miles gets 249mi range vs 260mi when new- as predicted. Had many naysayers tell me it would die after 100k miles, battery would be shot, etc etc and so far, it’s been the best running, most reliable car we’ve ever owned. We have 2 Model X’s and no plans to ever part with them. Also own ICE vehicles so I’m no Tesla sellout- just pragmatic car owners.
I'm driving a 2nd hand 2015 Volvo V60 PHEV D6 since 5 years with 140.000 miles on the clock. When I bought the car it was on 90K miles and the battery was on 96%. The majority of the 50K I drove the car were short distances from which almost all fully electric. And now after 5 years I still have about 90% battery-capacity. So I can confirm that these guys are right with what they are claiming.
Does your Volvo hybrid have thermal management of the battery? Our 2006 Toyota Hybrid Highlander does not. It is not a plug in. Lack of thermal management (AC cooling/Resistor Heating) makes it easier to change out the battery but allows the battery to degrade faster. AC cooling of the battery becomes an extremely important system in a BEV with thermal management.
@@weaesq To my knowledge there is no e- heating on the HV battery but there is some on the HV cabling to and from the front (battery is in the trunkfloor above the ERAD (Electric Rear Axle Drive which does by the way has an electric heater inside). But there is more than enough cooling. The HV pouches are liquid cooled by two pumps with a plate between every two pouches. If that is not sufficient than the airco kicks in and through an heatexchanger the cooling fluid is extra cooled. Hope that's answering your question.
Phev's are a worst case for batteries. A battery that's deep cycled every day and then charged to 100%. I charge my EV two times a week and still stay in th 20-80 zone because the batteries are bigger.
@@ulwur A Volvo V60 PHEV is using by design max 80% of the battery capacity. Max used is 9 Kw while the total battery capcity is 11.2 Kw.. Furthermore it was one of the first that was liquid cooled per cell. So what can be true for other PHEV's is definitely not the case for a Volvo
So glad to see a proper petrol head like Ped busting these myths. The Fully Charged Show does the same, but they're usually preaching to the converted. Ped's audience is the one that really needs to be re-educated. (I'm a 72 year old life-long petrol head myself)
I’m so glad this video got the number of views that it did, we need more truth and transparency on this topic. There’s been too much misinformation, fake news, and propaganda, about EV’s and their batteries. Some of it is malicious, but a lot of it is simply ignorance. This is a relatively new technology that hit the market with a huge splash, and there hasn’t been enough time for people to catch up with the facts. Videos like this is exactly what the public needs now!
As they say, every day is a day at school, that was an education. BRILLIANT, 'Don't Listen to people with Opinions, Listen to People with Experience' thanks Moggy best advice I've heard in over 50 years !! 👍
The problem with that is that even people with experience often have a reason to say what they say. Doing what he does for a living, Moggy isn't going to declare that batteries are rubbish even if they are, right? I mean: he's selling these conversions for a living. He gains financial benefit from telling you what he does. Not saying he's lying but that it's hard to find an independent party these days. Everyone has an agenda.
Just purchased my first EV and decided to watch this again and wanted to thank you both for some really useful and informative advice which helped to remove some of my concerns and also will help with charging etc. Brilliant stuff thanks again.👍
I am an old git but you're never too old to learn. Very intuitive and it has me thinking. Keep up the good work both you and moggy. 👍👍 a thumbs up each 😄
Not sure how much of an "old git" you are lol but I bought my first EV at 63, best car I have had, 22,000 miles a year, sometimes 400+ a day, saved me a fortune!
We have a Chevy volt that is 10 years old and has 40,000 miles on it. We are officially an elderly couple and very rarely drive beyond the range of the batteries. We live in town and 90% of our driving is within a 20 mile round trip. If we anticipate driving farther than the range of the batteries we put the car in mountain mode . This mode essentially guarantee that the battery doesn't get down all the way on the trip before the small gas engine kicks in and starts charging the batteries. GM wants the gas engine to be used at least 10 minutes every month anyway and and has this programmed into the system. Once in a while I let the car run the batteries down until the engine kicks in in normal mode to check on battery degradation. So far we have noticed no degradation that we can notice. The car has given us 40000 trouble free miles and has so far shown no evidence of body corrosion. At this rate and our very senior driving style we anticipate this car should, barring an accident, last us the rest of our lives. Given our low electricity rates it only costs us $1.50 to drive 50 miles which ain't bad. And you guys are correct, there's an awful lot of misinformation out there concerning electric cars from people who never owned or driven one.
not everyone drives like you, and not just locally, the range anxiety, not turning on the A/C in summer nor the heater in winter to to conserve energy make it home, not working in the cold, not finding an available charger, i don't need that
@@josepeixoto3384 If you like less efficiency and paying more for gasoline, that is your choice. Cars are expensive and take energy to manufacture too. Drive your ICE car for as long as you can. When you are looking at purchasing another vehicle after you have worn out your ICE or crashed it, also take a look into more efficiency and costs savings that BEVs and PHEVs can offer at that time. Normal maintenance of BEVs is easier and generally lower in costs. Replacement parts are currently more expensive with BEVs because they are so new. As time goes on, rebuilt parts are likely to become available as BEVs and PHEVs become more prevalent.
@@josepeixoto3384lol, the ac in an ev takes around 250 watts an hour to run. It's not even a thing to worry about. And since I'm not a wimpy floridian i don't even need heat until it's less than 15 F outside.
I too drive my 6 yr o phev >80% on ⚡ (solar pwr). The mfg has a built-in reserve, to not run 🔋 to empty. But it does help to keep the charge max-min narrow as possible, for longest life. I frequently get over 99 mpg-e.
Thanks for putting out the facts. I have a 5 year old Model 3 with 100,000 miles, and it's at about 95% of my original range. I've also paid a whopping $200 in maintenance costs (excluding new tires)... which was to replace the trunk (boot) latch. I still have the original brakes... and with regenerative braking I may never need to replace the brake pads. And with over the air updates, the car is literally better than when I bought it. I wouldn't even consider buying anything other than another Tesla.
I guess your one of the lucky ones but what about the ones that there's burned up and there house . Or just burned-out after floods in Florida. I bought a blower it lasted a few Yeats now it doesn't work cannot buy batteries for that model . Not all batteries are the same.
@@marvkwia3973 Gas cars catch fire at a higher rate than EV's... you just don't hear about gas car fires because they're not news. Also, more manufacturers are moving to lithium-iron-phosphate (LFP) which are nearly impossible to set on fire.
@@aaronstock8544 I sold my M3 to my son, and my wife and I both drive MY's. I agree with you... I wouldn't drive an ICE car even if you gave it to me for free.
As much I dont like queues at charging points this year, I glad that you guys busted this myth. Got EV myself and first time in my life happy do not care about suspicious noises, oil change, discusting smoke around and so on. Just open doors, push couple buttons and drive. Also enjoy supercar like acceleration and power. Great stuff, thank you all, engineers!
@@phprofYT fossil fuel, hybrids, and full EVs all uses a battery but just different amounts. Regardless, anything that used a battery has ties to African slave labor.
I ran a Nissan eNV200 as a nationwide same day courier. Nissans are not noted for their battery longevity, they use old tech and very rudimentary thermal management (although unlike the Leaf at least the eNV has some). But after 130,000 miles in just 2 years and a huge number of rapid charges (sometimes as many as 5 a day) it still retained 90% of it's original battery capacity and therefore range. I was more than happy with a vehicle which would still be perfectly serviceable beyond 250 or perhaps even 300,000 miles with minimal repair costs, so I've stuck with an EV and wouldn't go back to a combustion car as a daily driver if you paid me.
That isn't dissimilar to the MG5 on the James & Kate RUclips channel. James did a video over-view of one of his company's MG5's, which is used a mobile EV mechanics call out/service vehicle. This particular MG5 had covered 70k miles in just 18 months. The front tyres were changed at 41k miles, and James reckoned the brake discs and pads would see 100k miles. Despite numerous rapid charges, the battery showed 96% state of health. There had been just a single failure, and that was the latch on the charging flap in the front grille.....
I know a community transport volunteer in Loughton, Essex who bought an wheelchair adapted Nissan E NV200 ex-taxi for £8k with 180k miles on the clock and it’s in viable use most days. When I say viable, at most a return trip to a hospital in Harlow, but that’s the requirement.
Not worried about it catching fire, exploding and burning down your house while you sleep? After the cargo ships catching fire and sinking, the spate of electric scooters catching fire overnight killing families, think I will wait until they are safer, just like with the experimental mRNA gene therapy injections, will keep watching the excess deaths increase and keep waiting for them to finish the trials and see how safe it really is 😮
Well, at least you could have written this insanely smart comment on RUclips while drinking coffee at a nice bakery while charging your car and leave it there - try this with an ice car ;-)
Cracking video. So.. where I am now. Electric cars are fast, reliable and practical. The problem is the infrastructure. If only the UK had a proper Government that cared about things like that instead of lining their own pockets.
You can hear a British moaning from 5 miles away!!!! There are not perfect goverments anywhere in the world. I will vote you if you go for the next elections.
Brilliant, thank you. I'll be sharing this about. When I was considering a new car at the beginning of 2023, I came across your channel & it really helped in the decision-making process. Your critical but balanced view was extremely helpful. In June, took delivery of a BMW iX1 (I am or rather was a Brit -thank you, Brexit - and I do live in Bavaria). I hadn't even sat in any EV before the showroom handover. Now you couldn't get me to even consider an ICE again, although at 69, I don't expect to need to buy another car again. Yes, expensive, and I had to make compromises (towing weight), but the driving pleasure now in 2023, is even greater than when I got my first used £300, 6 Volt VW Beetle based, Beach Buggy in 1972. One of the nicer explanations of the 0-100% charging issues was comparing it to a multi-storey car park at a shopping centre: early on Saturday morning you drive in and straight into a bay, as morning progresses you need to search about & by 11am you are spending ages driving around to find a slot. That's the process that happens when you charge - ions find their way easily to start with and then increasingly have to slow down to dock into a cell. And for the battery degradation, it's like a well poured, unfiltered Bavarian wheat beer: the Battery with its gross/net capacity is the same as the large foam head and the last centimetre at the bottom of the glass with the yeast that you don't drink - and this is where the degradation largely takes place, especially in the first 5-10 years, not in the main body. Greetings to Sussex - I last lived near Petworth, so nice to watch some of your reviews just for the scenery!
Even without battery temperature management our 2013 Renault Zoe 22Kw got to nearly 100,000 miles and the battery loss was only 9% from new so not too bad either and although we have now sold it (2 years ago) its still going fine as I keep in touch with the new owners.
@@humphreybradley3060 The Continental version of the motor in the Zoe could be charged at 43 KW on AC.The fans would work hard when that was happening.
The best advice I have heard in a long time and it applies to everything not just electric cars; "Don't listen to opinions, Listen to experience." Very well said! Thank you.
It's ok to run down to 0% if you charge right away, and it's also ok to charge to 100% if you use it right away. The batteries just don't like sitting at those extremes for a period of time.
My favorite battery charging explanation was "Imagine a giant double decker stadium and the top deck is full and the bottom deck is empty. All the people represent electrons. A whistle blows and everyone scrambles to get to the bottom deck. At first there are big bottle necks, then the flow starts stabilizing. The deck starts to fill up fast till you get to the final 20%. After you get to the final 20%, most seats are occupied and people spend more time wandering around looking for an empty seat. The less seats left available the harder it is for the "electrons" to find a "hole" to sit down in so it takes longer.
An excellent analogy, now imagine that they don't go from top to bottom in an orderly fashion but push and shove so every time they move up and down some of them get crushed and die (normal charging), then imagine there is a stampede and lots of them are crushed to death (fast charging), this explains why batteries become useless after a number of cycles, no electrons (people) left or not enough to do any work.
Tons of great info, just got my Model Y. Yes I've had to supercharge, as I have yet to get my home charger (in hand) installed. Going to 80%. I love it. Thank you both for killing those myths! Cheers from TX, USA!
As an electrican with limited understanding of EV capability AND now a new owner of an EQC, this is a really great, simple explanation of battery capabilities. The main takeaway being, every person that has given me their opinion on EV ownership and batteries, doesn't own an EV! Yes, things go wrong and I've got a warranty, but the data coming back now shows that for daily commuting, EVs can work... and work well. Great video.
Good luck when the warranty runs out (and good luck selling your car then, for any money to talk about, i.e. second hand value), unless you have a car with battery swap, i.e. a NIO.
@@martina5328What are you rambling about grandpa? Resale on his EV is phenomenal. Look them up. This isn’t magic; stop with the fake news fud. Have you tried an EV? You must own stock in swappable batteries. The batteries last longer than the ICE vehicles ever would. Watch the video you are commenting on. Ffs.
@@ysmf888the point with owning an EV is that %99 of peoples journeys are less than 100 miles.. I have owned an EV for 3 years and haven’t had to use public charging more than 3 times.
Believe it or not, China and its people are far more tech savvy that us westerners and if they have almost 50% NEV adoptions, it is because they know it is a much better tech than ICEs. If you get a good one (Teslas, Hyundai/KIAs, and almost any of the top Chinese models, Polestar, Volvo, MG, etc. etc.), you will get a much more advanced, compelling, affordable vehicle than if you went with ICEs. Usually much safer and more fun to drive to boot.
Love your perspective. Im a total petrohead, love the sound of a cross plane crank or 3 rotor engine. I also love electricity too. Id rather use a 3ph pressure washer than deal with a diesel driven pump. Same with yard tools and power tools, rather use ego 56v yard tools than small gas. My cheap model 3 fits the bill for commuting and convenience. Diversity works for financial portfolio and I think it applies to cars too, 3x f150 seems as stupid and 3x teslas. Americans are lucky to be able to afford multiple cars tho. Appreciate gearheads like you being openinded.
Very well explained totally agree with everything he’s said, I’ve just passed my level 3 in IMI EV maintenance just to add you can change the cells individually to take your battery back up to 100 percent More cost effective than changing the whole batter, EVs are great it’s the infrastructure that needs to catch up
Pedro, this video was Goldilocks! Great to have straight talk from credible experts. Shout out to Moggy and crew. Really miss Vintage Voltage, have cycled through both seasons a couple times.
Absolutely brilliant.. We've just acquired a new Kia Niro EV for our son on his motability scheme. I'm now much more confident we made a good choice. Thanks guys.
Lifelong petrolhead but now an EV convert. Dubious green issues aside, they are great as a daily driver, fast, smooth quiet. Still keep a classic ICE for weekends mind ;)
I am a nailed on Jag fan and loved my Jaguars, but my Tesla is the best car I’ve owned. I am so disappointed that Jaguar have not gone down the EV route. Electing to have a third-party build a car with a jaguar badge, stuck on the front.
@@ouethojlkjn You're kidding right?? The iPace is 100% designed by Jaguar just assembled by Magna Steyr in Austria. As I understand it, Magna Steyr are building the Merc G Class, Jag iPace & EPace and some of the BMW 5 Series cars. These still belong to the respective marques. Having someone who specialises in build only is a natural progression of production engineering.
Same here! My 98th car was an EV and I love them so much more than gas cars… I have a 2017 Chevy Bolt with 250 miles range. Love love it. And yes l still have a few Petrol cars.
@@OilymoAre they even still making the iPace? 😂😂😂 It was supposed to be a “Tesla killer”. ROFLMAO It is not even remotely close, (which is reflected in sales). I test drove one extensively and it was a huge fail compared to my Tesla in so many areas that really matter.
Great video. A Chevy Bolt in Quebec Canada has over 430,000 kms -- 267,000 miles -- on the original, non-recall battery, and he says it only has about 4-5% degradation. The Bolt has battery, motor, and electronics cooling. The battery also uses the a/c system to cool it when overly warm from driving or charging. I don't charge my 2023 Bolt euv over 90% (which shows as a real 88%), as the math shows that GM didn't program in a top or bottom buffer into the battery. Even on level-3 charging -- which I don't do often as I don't need to -- my Bolt's charging rate slows after 50%, and drastically after 80%, no matter how much the charger can put out. Anyone I've talked to who has an EV, and researched them before buying, loves them: including myself. After I bought my Bolt I realized I had stopped driving my ICE cars, and sold them: a 1990 Volvo 240DL wagon, an '84 Benz 240d, and an '04 VW Jetta tdi wagon.
We have a second hand BMW i3 with over 100,000km and nearly 10 years old. Recent battery test showed 97% of new capacity. A good battery management and cooling system makes all the difference :)
@@Jamie-Z Ever watched Top Gear do dyno tests on old petrol sports cars to see how much power and efficiency they had lost? And that was a show CELEBRATING "fuel" cars. Keep up.
Gained a lot of respect for you over these last couple ev videos. You are keeping an open mind, but also a healthy dose of ev skepticism. Combined with your own real use experiences and very honest open conversations with actual industry experts. Top shelf stuff imo. 👍🏻😎
Very biased conversation from an EV salesman. No mention of the massive losses in battery charge and range in hot and cold temperatures. EVs are terrible both hot and cold climates. It's a scam and there isn't enough power stations to run EVs for any nation.
@@PetrolPed haha well imo we need more honest balanced journalism just like this, sprinkled with some dry whit. Seasoned with real world questions and a more mature perspective from actual real world ev user experience. I may not watch your ice stuff (owned 80+of those in 41 years) but I'll gladly watch all your ev content especially with that car nut moggy. 👍🏻😎
@@PetrolPedlooking forward to this as I think the politicians jumped on the EV train too early! Buy the right engine for your trips, EVs for inner cities and semi local trips (until charging infrastructure catches up at least), petrol for the mid to long journeys - shorter commutes) and diesel for load lugging or high mileage users. I saw (couple weeks back) a 3 year old diesel Passat on AUTO TRADER coming up on 105k miles, a really good buy in my opinion. All motorway miles, the perfect engine for that sort of use. No EV is going to touch that on simplicity of use, not yet anyway! No mention on how the newer iron phosphate batteries should be / actually like being fully charged regularly (unlike Lithium ion). One for another vieod
That was the first information I have seen about batteries where someone actually knew what they were talking about. So informative and valuable. Really appreciate the effort than you. Totally changed my opinion about electric cars. Right though about electric motors, I was a maintenance a reliably chartered engineer in in the oil industry for over 40 years, loved the maintenance free electric motors and hated reciprocating drivers.
@@Anonymous-ib8so Do you always call people liars without justification? That said if you were technically minded you could have known he was being objective and truthful.
It's so refreshing to see someone who identifies as 'Petrol Ped' diving into the actual facts of EV instead of blindly repeating the fear put out by the oil industry! Thank you!
@@PetrolPed hell yeah! Same here. I don't hate ICE's. Love my Porsche 718. Love my Polestar 2. Loving cars doesn't mean having to hate EVs. That's something a lot of people don't want to understand.
Excellent video. This should be a public information film. The "talk to people with experience rather than opinions" thing applies to life in general but we tend to seek confirmation rather than illumination - a cause of so much that is wrong these days.
I bought a Nissan Leaf through my company Salary Sacrifice. Enjoyed the car immensely, and therefore decided to purchase the car after the Lease Period I have now had the car for almost 5 years (98800 miles) and out of nowhere an alarm appeared on the dash, warning of Battery EV Fault, and that the car would shut down, which is exactly what it did in the middle of traffic. This occurred roughly 6 months ago. I had the Breakdown service help me, but the Engineer ran a diagnostic test on the car and found some errors, and then unplugged the 12V Battery. Ran the tests and the car came up with no errors, and the car started again. I decided to not to chance anything and therefore decided to contact the Nissan Dealer to investigate the issue on the vehicle. They found no issues on the car after running a diagnostic test, and therefore decided to service the car and replace the 12V Battery costing me in region of £350. 2 weeks later the same thing happened again. I got the car to the garage, of which they couldn't find the problem, but the car started again. I decided to contact NISSAN GB, and warned both Nissan Dealer and Nissan GB that this very dangerous and felt that the car should be recalled. 2 Weeks later and again, the car breaks down in the middle of traffic. Again Nissan, couldn't find the issue. I opened a case with Nissan GB reporting of the problem, who they they communicated further with the dealer who I took the car to. The Nissan Dealer then advised me that they seeked advice from their Master Tech, who stated it could be a problem with one or 2 of the cells in the Lithium Battery, but it would cost £750 to run a test, and if it it is a cell that is damaged and needs replacing will cost in region of £3500 per cell to replace! To make things worse the Nissan Dealer has stated that they will not fix the issue as the potential damage does not fall under the 5 Yr/100000mile Warranty. They have mentioned that the fine print is that NISSAN will only replace the battery if it has degraded more than 10% within this period? I believe the car is now 100% degraded which they are arguing against. NISSAN GB on the other hand have now closed the case. I have tried to contact them on why they have close the case, Their explanation is that the battery cannot be fixed under the warranty and have gone with the advice of the NISSAN Dealer that I would need to tow the car to their Master Tech at my own expense and get the reparations done at my own account. The car is still at the Nissan Dealer waiting for me to make a decision. I am lost on what options I have, and would like to seek advice on where to go from here. It is very important people understand that buying an electric car is not as reliable as what people may think. The technology is very new, and a warning to those considering buying a used EV!
It may be coming but I have to say I will be sticking to the ICE for as long as possible, although at my age a quality ICE or EV may well outlast me. I did 235,000 miles in my vivaro van before selling it to an old colleague who, instead of using it for bits for one of his vans actually continued to use mine. The only other issue for me is that I would like to do up a van for touring, which would have leisure batteries for general use, likely charged by the alternator rather than PV (although may have some PV too). If it was an electric van I would either need to carry a generator and some fuel or I would need to recharge as I travel, which in some locations may not be an option. As an electrical engineer I can confirm that the degradation of the batteries is about right, we generally request no more than 10% loss over a ten year period for UPS systems in the data centre design. There is only the one major drawback for EV cars and that is infrastructure, a place to charge if you live in flats etc where there may not be sufficient access to your own charger. Perhaps we will achieve levitation too so that they can be charged from your balcony 😂
I stick to beaters, pay for car 500-1000 euro drive few years then scarp it and get another one. Works best for me. I dont see how its saving money to pay 50000+ euro for EV and goverments will tax them its just a matter of time. Also probably insurance gonna be very high on those since whos gonna cover batreries in case of crash? EV is ok as second car and most who has EV have it as second car + owning house. Young people in rented place will be forced to walk once ban on ICE cars happens..
I was debating for months now if I should buy an electric car as my new drive. This video absolutely convinced me that it's time to go electric. Thank you! Tesla Model 3 ordered.
Perhaps it would be worth your while to watch some of the ev owner’s videos to get their perspective before you commit to parting with your hard earned money. Furthermore, you also have to factor in the fact that this gentleman business is converting cars to electric. It is not in his best interests to say ev battery life is like a box of chocolates. His interests lie in stating that ev’s are the best thing since sliced bread.
Very informative video, thank you. My first EV was a 10 year old Peugeot Ion and its battery was degraded to 70% of its original capacity. In town use you could get max 60 miles in summer and half that in winter, or less if you really caned the heater. Needless to say I always charged it to 100%! I now have a new e-Up with 32kWh battery. I still charge it to 100% because the winter range is only 110 miles and I find charging is a faff (wet dirty cable in the dark, ugh) and b) it's a lease car so it's someone else's problem when I'm done with it. In reality it will be the third or fourth owner at 8 to 10 years old who might find it's slightly more degraded than one that's been lovingly wrapped in cotton wool and kept between 20 and 80% all its life. But by the sound of this video we're talking a few percentage points not double digits degradation... so who cares.
Great video, Pedro. You and Moggy have a great rapport. 😊 One thing Moggy forgot to mention, though, is the difference between gross battery capacity and useable battery capacity. Most EVs have batteries with built-in top and bottom buffers to protect the battery from ever being 100% full or 100% empty. Another reason degradation is now so low. For example, the Tesla Model 3 long-range has a gross capacity of 82kWh, but the useable capacity is 75kWh.
They did mention it, compared it to gas tanks that still have miles to go when they hit empty. Don't think any have top buffers, but they all have bottom reserve capacity of various sizes. Some Teslas have limits put on capacity, so a 70kWh battery that you can only use 60kWhs of may be considered a top buffer, but it's just a way to sell a cheaper car that the owner may some day decide to unlock for additional monies.
Thanks for this. Keeping it real is the way forward. I have a 23 year old Jaguar with 50k miles on which for some has the wrong shape key but no rust. Equivalent EVs still have the wrong shape price tag for my use but £40k was right for someone in 1999. I paid £3k for it 5 years ago and haven't worried about the shape of the key. Learning how to minimise degradation is best practice. Low maintenance could get lost in translation as no maintenance. If people hog the battery packs to run houses on the cheap, where are the realistically affordable battery packs for cars supposed to come from?
@@israndy"Don't think any have top buffers," No, some have a reverse top buffer, if you fill them to the brim and a bit more you suffocate the emission vapor canister, produce a hydrolock and the car is dead.
I had no idea these batteries are 100% recyclable, this is great to hear. Only driving 6K per year it would make sense for me to get a battery car but I'm still not feeling confident enough with the infrastructure but I am sure I will have to make the move in the coming years. Great video and love Moggy's passion.
About 96% recyclable but still one hell of a lot. What's more, the reclaimed minerals are of a high enough quality to be used again to make more batteries. 👍
Just goes to show that we all get our own personal stream of information. There has been loads of stuff out there (inc. here on YT) for a couple of years now explaining and even showing the process of recycling (often repurposing EV cells for electricity storage) or repairing and reusing. The media doesn't seem to want to make such a big deal of this - but then it probably isn't clickworthy enough.....
@michaelatkinson7577 Spot on, Michael. Batteries have a much longer useful life span than most people think. Personally, I believe many of these stories are deliberately started in an attempt to undermine the EV industry. I recently learned that oil companies like Shell and ExxonMobil have allegedly spent $60 million on social media influencing since 2017. There was also a report by "eminent scientists and experts" that challenged climate science and argued that net zero targets should be toned down. The report was a complete fabrication and commissioned by a US 'think tank' with affiliations to ExxonMobil and other polluting industries.
@@FullFact548 Indeed. And batteries not recycled can be used by the energy industry, usually in commercial, industrial or domestic applications. There is a large sports stadium in Utrecht in Holland, powered by 200 old Nissan Leaf batteries, charged via solar. There is also a large wind farm in South Wales, which uses many ex BMW i3 batteries for energy storage. There is virtually endless scope and potential for older EV batteries.......They may no longer be viable for car use, but still have plenty of life for alternative uses.
The guy has a vested interest in promoting EV's as his business is EV conversion of ICE cars. So clearly he is going to paint a rosy picture of everything EV.
No myths busted here, the mechanic confirmed that battery degradation is real over time and excess use. Most EV owners are clueless about car maintenance and abuse their vehicles, excessive charging use and overall carelessness.
@@SalvageMasterEssex I don't think he painted a rosy picture, just told the truth. He agreed batteries do degrade but nowhere near as much as people think and he even agreed older cars will degrade more. The truth is if you're buying a modern EV you'll never likely have to replace the battery.
@@SalvageMasterEssex the 200,000 mile 90% degradation figure Moggy quoted is published and widely reported data from Tesla. It’s data from early Model S and Model X cars that had done over 200k miles. So old technology compared to current batteries. As a businessman selling expensive classic EV conversions with a high social media profile Moggy could lose a hard earned reputation if his statements weren’t based on fact.
Great video! I knew pretty much everything mentioned as I've been driving an electric for 6 years but Moggy explained it so well that it became a wonderful refresher. Well done!
Another great video, as always Moggy is able to use simple comparisons between ‘combustion engine’ terminology and how that equates to the electric world. The interaction and banter between the two of you, is always fun to watch. Keep up the good work - both of you.
You can charge an LFP battery to 100%. Due to the different chemistry they're not as energy dense but they can be charged to 100% without the fear of excessive degradation and don't suffer the same fire risks. LFP batteries are currently used in the smaller battery pack EV variants.
My wifes Smart ForFour EQ will be 4 years old in September, it has currently done 22k. As we have recently purchased it I had a battery condition report done by Mercedes for peace of mind. The print out showed it still has 96% of its original battery capacity and all individual cells were in top condition. I would recommend that any purchaser of a used EV car insists on a battery condition report at time of purchase.
4 months ago 5 year old Merc EV. Dealer priced 8t at 5k for trade in but didn't want it as it would need a new battery pack according to their workshop check. 13k for a new pack making a used 5 year old Merc at 11k cost 18k . Fact!
Just sold my Leaf at 10 yers old and 55k miles. Lost about 15% of its capacity only. Was very reliable. Only real problem with it was that it never had much range when new so not much less 15% was hard to live with except for very local journeys. This won't be a problem for the current generation of EVs as they all come with bigger batteries.
I have a 2015 Leaf and a 2021 Ioniq5. The battery tech is worlds apart, not just in range/density but conditioning and longevity. Those first Gen Leafs are great value for money as second cars for two car families.
It lost about £1200 pa, which isn't bad. But with the limited mileage I did, it makes for about 50p per mile, which dwarfs the 3 p per mile electricity cost.
It lost about £1200 pa, which isn't bad. But with the limited mileage I did, it makes for about 50p per mile, which dwarfs the 3 p per mile electricity cost.
Hi PP, what an excellent video. For me I'm a dyed in the wool EV enthusiast & owner. I charge at home off a domestic outdoor style 16 amp socket so I always have a full 'tank' to start the day. Our cheap rate overnight electricity is 13 cents per kw and my car consumes on average 13 kw/hrs per 100 kms. But above all the arguments about running costs etc, they are just sooooo nice to drive. Smooth and quiet when you want - fast as f*** when you want.
Of course he will bestow the electric car with praise. Its in his best interest to do so. You might as well ask a barman to give you the health benefits of beer
@@sahhull He makes kits to convert classic cars to be shipped all over the world, if they didn't work as expected his business would not be thriving like it is! - I think he's said before if you want him to convert a classic now he has a 2 year waiting list to even get it in! - also he was and is a massive petrol head as well.
First i read "Petrol" and "The Truth about EV..." and though: This won't end well, lots of Myths. But i was surprised: Very good Video, lots of facts and told just like it is. Thank you very much, this was great. Greetings from Germany
Excellent video, thanks. I have a Renault Zoe that has done 37,000 miles. When I got it, I measured what battery percentage it used, driving 50 miles at a certain ambient temperature and using no ancillaries, such as air-conditioning or heating. Testing recently showed that it still does the same range using the same amount of battery charge.
@@keithhooper6123 Time is as important as mileage though. Short trips miles are more taxing to cars than long trips miles. I know 10 years old cars with less than 50k miles that have been only used for short urban trips and they're in a condition that would suggest a higher mileage. Time takes its toll. On ICE cars even more so. No engine likes short use cycles where operating temps are inefficient and combustion is always subpar. All filters get clogged prematurely, carbon buildup is accelerated and faps and egrs are not regenerated. Oil is most of the time under-heated and quickly degraded, while early cycle wear and tear happens more often. Of course plastics and gums and whatnot become stiffer and brittle with time too, but that happens with all cars so its not too big of an issue.
"..... at a certain ambient temperature and using no ancillaries, such as air-conditioning or heating....." - exactly - but that's not normal driving. You don't have to do that with a petrol or diesel car and 37k is nothing. On an ICE car that's virtually a new engine. Even at 137,000 miles you would still get pretty much the same efficiency if the car has been looked after. The one thing most forget, or don't realise, is you won't be able to use that car until it only charges a few percent of it's original capacity when recharged. Those with older, higher mileage cars often say they can still charge to 70 or 80% of it's original capacity but what they don't realise is when that drops to the point where they can only charge to 50-60% the car is practically useless, because that's more or less a dead battery.
Brilliant video. Thank you for taking the time to do this. What a great knowledge Moggy has and he is able to explain things in understandable ways to the techno spanners (me). Will definitely go and search out his website now.
A very informational video Sir Pete! Thank you for doing this. I do have a coworker who owns a Tesla and had to spend 16k to fix his Tesla plaid 😮 you can buy a good used car truck or suv for that
That's the big point I often allude to, and is why I think these EVs are more likely to get scrapped sooner than their equivalent ICE car. As they get to the 10-15 year point people know that parts are going to start wearing and they will cost so much to repair that it just isn't worth it - therefore they're going to be scrapped. I also believe that less people are likely to buy them in the first place because of the risk of a big bill. You can buy any small 10-15 year old hatchback for a relatively low price and if things go wrong you're not likely to get a big repair bill, but that's not the case with EVs. We're already seeing that even basic repairs are costing thousands.
Great information. I am set to buy a Mach E but was concerned about battery replacment cost. The 2023 and 2024 Ford Mustang Mach-E standard range models use lithium iron phosphate (LFP) batteries instead of lithium-ion batteries:, which means they last longer. Many thanks for helping with that buying criteria.
A 24 minute video is not a long video unless a person has the attention span of a Kindergarten class. When your learning something its important to spend a minute or two processing it to memory. Many content creators start-out sharing information in a Teach/Learn way. As time goes on they pay less attention to detail and cut out aspects of the process they are sharing. For example I will go to You Tube for say removing my trucks speedometer cluster to watch the procedure. Unfortunately the content provider leaves out the part where all the plastic, clips and screws were removed to get to the cluster. Then finishes the video by saying reassembly is the reverse of disassembly. My point is when making a video don't feel bad about spending the necessary time to explain a given process or procedure. I'm an EV Owner/ Solar Power System Owner/ Mechanic/ Power Plant Operator/ Industrial Electrician etc.. I still come to You-Tube to Learn and Fortify knowledge, I have Television access for entertainment. You did this video right by spending the time necessary for the subject being discussed.
Another excellent video Pedro! Now it all makes a lot more sense. I love the way Moggy explains everything so well and the fact that he has a passion for classic cars and is converting them to EV speaks volumes, he wouldn't do it if it didn't work long term and the maths didn't stack up. I've not been a huge EV fan up to now but that video has increased my faith quite a bit. Also, if eventually it's difficult to run an ICE vehicle due to lack of fuel supply I can always convert my Honda powered Rally Landcrab I'm currently building to electric to keep it going.
Brilliant! There is a ton of anti-EV nonsense on RUclips and other media right now which needs challenging and correcting. As the man says 'talk to people who have experience of owning an EV'.
Indeed, we need to bring about/cultivate a situation where potentially dubious EV advice or claims are confronted or questioned. A sort of - " do you actually have/own/ use an EV?" If the answer comes back as no, then it ought to be met with a hearty bugger off.
Great no BS video Pete! As an automotive head , I prefer interesting carefully used cars rather than new built. I run a 2005 A2 daily with 180k miles! I would be interested in seeing a comparison between a low mileage late built BMW i3 , for example and a high mileage similar spec vehicle. A real world experience rather than an opinion (great quote by Moggie)
Great to hear those good points . One inconvenient truth that wasn’t mentioned was the subject on fire hazard. Thermal runaway is not talked about enough and it should be. Apart from being nearly impossible to extinguish the hazard from the fumes are extremely toxic.
The inconvenient truth is hybrids and ICE vehicles are more likely to catch fire compared to EVs. If you are concerned about your car catching fire, buy and drive an EV and rest easy.
My point is not the chance of it catching on fire but the extreme difficulty in extinguishing Ev fires. And my other point is they are extremely toxic and I mean Extremely toxic, particularly when in underground car parks ect. Also it is important to take into account the cause of ice car fires when comparing against EVs. There is a number of reasons for this, particularly the car’s condition age and modifications. This is fact but it’s your choice to bury your head in the sand.
@@waynebee5682 When the tires catch fire (very common), they are "Extremely toxic, particularly when in underground car parks ect." "This is fact but it’s your choice to bury your head in the sand."
Honestly the best explanation by a genuine genius in my eyes . Only had my new e3008 a week that video has reassured me so much I’ve had had the car by default and it’s given me real anxiety so thank you so so much 👍🏻😉🇬🇧
Thank you Pete and Moggy. You have answered a load of important questions. Why don’t manufacturers advertise this as at the moment EV’s are bad money at the moment (I work in the motor trade at a main dealer)
I guess one reason is that main dealers don't get much post sales revenues from EVs. They need to change their business model and prepare for a future where all cars will be EVs and those cars will stay useable for much longer than fossil cars. With so little to go wrong main dealers could become restorers, rebuilders of old EVs, giving them a second life after say 15 years and 250,000 miles. This sits well with the ideas of a 'circular economy' where we are not obsessed with buying new stuff all the time. Legislation here in France already compels manufacturers of things like white goods to have a 'repairability index'..so why not with cars? So much gets thrown away because replacing the failing component is more than the value of the car. But with an EV, replacing that component would mean the car stays fixed and useable for longer. As someone who has run old cars in the past I know how it works. You have a reliable 'old faithful' until the water pump goes say...so you fix it but a year later the starter motor goes..and on and on it goes..so you scrap it. This will not be the case with old EVs
Bear in mind that you have Tesla, and then you have everyone else. The majority of the auto industry would like electric vehicles to just quietly go away. It does not suit their business model.
@@ouethojlkjn I agree that Tesla are ahead of everyone in software, charging infrastructure and motor/battery efficiency but so far my Kia e-Niro after 4.5 years and 87,000 km has been faultless. My winter/summer efficiency average is 14kWh/100 km..so easily over 4 miles/kWh and there has been no loss of range at all . The buffer on the e-Niro is 3.5 kWh, allowing a voltage buffer between the 100% operating maximum of 64 kWh and the V-Max on the cells which allow 67.5 kWh. We live in South West France and have done long hauls here, to the UK, Switzerland and Germany...Never had a problem charging, although the car is now looking off the pace on charging speeds compared to newer EVs.
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 "ideas of a 'circular economy' where we are not obsessed with buying new stuff all the time. " This will NOT work in the UK!
I took a BMW i3 as a company car back in January 2017 and over the following 4 years racked up 110K miles. Since its main use was a 160+ mile round trip commute, it was frequently getting charged from below 20% back up to 100% twice a day (overnight at home and at work) on an AC charger and I saw very little deterioration in range over that period of time. I did not rapid charge it very often, mainly because of the limited availability at the time.
@@Hybridog - hard to tell cos I tended to drive my commute (A14/M1) with the aim of having less than 10% left when I got there - so I never drove it with maximising mileage in mind…if you get my drift 🤔
My issue is the infrastructure - we are not allowed to charge an EV at home and there are no chargers within 5 miles (and they are also never working). As my wife is disabled we cannot ever have an EV, and it looks like this will be an issue in many flats/social housing as well
@@patthewoodboy no off road parking, multi occupancy properties & not enough voltage capacity/infrastructure in some larger urbanised areas. Some electricity supply companies can turn down applications for charger installations
But that is not an EV problem, it is a landlord / infrastructure problem. Also, how do you know your local chargers are not working because you don't have an EV? I simply do not believe that you go and check them daily.
Simple question: How many miles do you drive a day (or a week)? In the Uk the average daily mileage is just 20 miles per day. A typical modern BEV with a battery of around 50kWH can easily do 200 miles, that means you would have to charge only every ten days! If you do less mileage than this, then there is an even longer gap between charges!
Excellent video. Sensible questions and down to earth answers. Not too techy, but every myth explained well by Moggy. As an EV owner this put my mind at rest on several issues.
I like to explain EV reliability by comparing it to vacuum cleaner or refrigerator reliability. Even my lawn mower is electric, starts every time without fail, and never serviced. Batteries and battery management were a let down, but most makes of vehicles have brought up the reliability tremendously.
If car makers would make a battery pattern size like an AA or AAA battery that you could easily swap when its worn out by a new one and recycle the old, they could improve on the tech and make the battery even better when time comes to change. that would make ev a lot more appealing@
@@nilsoncastello4128 BMW used Samsung lithium ion battery cells in its early electric vehicles that can be individually replaced. They are hard to get to and are expensive. To increase the capacity to 300+ miles, custom batteries are now made to fit more into a chassis.
Love my EV.. I drive a 1st gen Leaf and 12 years later it is still going strong… zero maintenance costs… never once a failure… love it! And it drives way nicer than I thought it might… coming off of higher end performance cars… I was nervous.. but around town EVs have plenty of zip!
If EVs are so cheap to maintain as this sales guy touts, why have all the major car rental firms given up on EVs because they are too expensive to maintain?
its amazing that they didn’t talk about the battery fires that happens all over the globe, but i guess thats not a myth !! did you noticed in the background to the left the emergency battery fire blanket ? yeah, we don’t talk about that !!
Funny you should say that. It’s not nearly the issue it’s made out to be. For sure when an EV does catch fire it’s a huge challenge to extinguish but Petrol cars are statistically more likely to catch fire. The recent fire on the transport shop has been found to NOT have been started by an EV 👍
It is a myth. He did address this- he said media is driven by clicks. Negative news gets more clicks. Here are the facts: "Analysts from AutoInsuranceEZ examined data from the National Transportation Safety Board to track the number of car fires and compared it to sales data from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics. Gasoline-powered cars, about 1,530. Electric vehicles (EVs) saw just 25 fires per 100,000 sold."
Excellent video. With Moggy's experience and style of presentation and the rapport you have I could have enjoyed a longer video. The click bait brigade need to see this, but... Well done. More like this, every couple of months ??
I was thinking about your comment on charging to 100%. Most companies create a buffer in the batteries. They actually have a usable battery usage but the battery has much more in reality.
Yes, brilliant of you all engineers and experts on batteries, a million thanks. You folks have calmed the innocent down, someone like me. Thank you again!
Great stuff! I am a bit confused about the “Keep your charge between 20-80% to prolong battery life”, because my Tesla Model Y 2023 with a LFP battery, warns me when I set the limit to 80%. It says I should charge to 100% at least once a week. Should I ignore this to save the battery? Thanks for this video - it cleared up much of the confusion.
You should charge to 100% frequently, so that the battery management system is able to balance the battery cells. Balancing means equalizing the voltage of all cells.
@@stefankaufmann8257 absolutely, Li Ion doesn't need it as often but, it really doesn't matter that much. I've been charging my phone to 100% with the cover on for 4 years now and it's just as good as it was new. "Proper" charging trumps perceived proper charging range every time. DC fast charging to 100% every time is obviously not recommended with Li Ion but, slow charging that high isn't going to generate the heat that is detrimental. The newer Li Ion chemistries are also much better than 10 years ago.
@@littleherms3285 your phone battery probably consists of only one cell, so there is no need for balancing. I have my Samsung pad set to 80% of charge, battery still works great after 2 years. And you are right, cells and charge algorythms are more sophistacetd than a decade ago. There is a german guy with a Tesla with almost 2 million kilometers (1.2 million miles) on the clock. He has that old contract, he still can charge his car for free. So he has the 4th battery - all covered by warranty. Tesla replaces the battery, when the capacity drops below 70%, no matter what mileage. In average the Tesla battery lasts for about 500'000km i.e. 300'000 miles and he does supercharging all the time. Pretty impressive...
By someone in the EV business? Like Tesla’s BS they feed everyone calling them facts. But it’s okay, there are enough deciles that believe his every word. Like Twitter’s worked out well for $46bn!!!
Very good information to get to the point of charging not charging to 100% to extend the life of the battery pack when you're looking at your DIC and it says 100% And then you look at the cell voltages you will see that the cells are not at 100% if you charge your car all the time to 100% as indicated on the DIC you will not have heard anything charging to 100% of cell voltage
Probably should have read the Tesla warranty - the battery will be replaced if it falls below 70%. The company specifies its batteries will retain at least 70 percent of their original capacity (also known as 30 percent degradation) during the warranty period (typically 8 years). Moreover, it is more or less normal to suffer 5% degradation in the first year of normal use and thereafter it can vary due to a number of factors. By the way for a model Y the EPA rating is 212 miles which is only 340 km. In other words as long as the vehicle, which is rated by Tesla at 303 miles, can do 212 miles its covered. Now place that vehicle in a hot climate or a cold climate and you'll find the 212 miles drops further. I can tell you from personal experience of a model 3 in both a hot and cold country, by using aircon you can severely impact performance by as much as 30% e.g. in the case of the model Y (with degrade battery), you might be down to a range of 150 miles or 240km. In my case I can tell you in northern Sweden I could barely get 200 miles when new, let alone with a degraded battery (I moved it on in less than a year). Honesty is important in these discussions and your mate has a clear conflict of interest.
I live in central Wisconsin, USA and see the same wintertime issues here, namely severe range issues for basically 1/2 the year. Coupled with basically no towing capacity for contractors towing trailers. I'm not totally down on EV's for southern climes, puttin' around town, but no one ever talks about their real limitations. And we haven't even discussed lack of charging stations and not even inability of the grid to produce all this electricity, with fossil fuels or nuclear, let alone renewables. Wind and solar will not for the foreseeable future will not supply the grid, without severe long term pollution results. I always like to ask EV owners how they like their nuclear and coal powered cars. The look on their faces is priceless.
@@larryflor1696 Americans like to believe that the world doesnt exist outside their little bubble. Here in Australia most homes have solar. Since I bought my model 3, I have been essentially running it off solar. Same for most people I know. Even if you were running it off coal powered electricity, that is more resource efficient than the equivalent petrol/diesel that is shipped to the servo and then burnt in your car.
@@larryflor1696a 100% coal powered grid (which doesn’t exist anywhere in the USA) still produces less emissions then an ICE powered car. Guess you’re not aware, EV motors easily exceed double the efficiency of ICE engines. Even if coal powered electrical grid.
LFP batteries can be charged to 100% and tesla recommends doing that at least once per week. Regarding the 20-80% on other batteries, a better analogy Elon used was a car park getting full, it's harder for the electrons to find a space. Quality info from this guy. Thanks
Time also degrades battery life. 200,000 mile in 3-4 years is different than 8-10 years. These guys are so biased, but the expert here did corroborate the facts that battery degradation varies by charging frequency, temperature, individual abuse and ignorance. No myths busted here, just confirmed their not myths, just facts.
@@mikopaq Two of my sons have Teslas. One has a small area of paint flaking off of the sill on one side. The other son has no issues. So falling apart? No.
@@ianhamilton3113 So you just confirmed that your ignorance was passed on genetically. If you can't see the glaring manufacturing flaws I hen you have no idea what quality is. Body panel misalignment is on every vehicle as confirmed by Musk himself. Imagine what fk ups you aren't seeing behind the body panels.
This video is a breath of fresh air compared to the endless number of those floating around the web spouting gloom and doom. Very thorough. Not a lot of detail or experience with extreme temperatures (ie freezing cold), but a giant step forward in spreading truth rather than fiction. Thank you. I’m sending links to glass half empty friends.
great vid. should be put in every car meet, forum and whatnot. Super precise, informative no bs there. Listen to people with experience not with opinion - GREAT line!!!!!
Welcome to Wales! That rain on the roof of the factory unit is epic. As others here have said, it's great that you have adopted a balanced view of all types of car, and I appreciate the fact that you openly state the best car you've driven for your personal circumstances is your present 3 litre diesel Land Rover defender 90. I wish I could afford one (but not in the tomb raider spec like yours) because the 90 looks like an awesome car that would suit me perfectly. Full kudos to Moggy also. I love his channel and am a subscriber.
Our 2019 Model 3P has absolutely minimal degradation, and has been basically perfect since day 1. I will NEVER EVER buy another ICE car. NOT EVER. Yes we look after it, only very rarely charge above 90% and mostly less than 80%. In four years, I have spent ZERO on maintaining it- (have rotated tyres and flushed the brake fluid myself- though even that was not really necessary as it still tested fine.)
Brilliant, I bought a second hand Kia Soul. My wife and I fight over who is driving. We only get 135 store even in the summer but that is no problem. Just about everywhere we want to go is well within range. We love going up hills, because we know the battery will recharge going down the other side! We learned that lesson when we were up the top of welsh mountain at 11o'clock at night, when the forecast said we only had 15 miles in the battery, yet the satnav said we had 22 to go. We arrived at the hotel with still 8 miles. Big, big, heave of relief! We charge using the granny and have no problems (although the garage said we would), timed for when our solar is good.
Had a Leaf from new for 4 years, done 80k miles in it and home charge to 100% most nights. Battery at 92% capacity using Leaf spy and has been for the last year. They seem to lose around 5% in the first year and then 1% each year after that. Im told it will plateau at around 90% for the next 100k miles then it's performance will start to drop off faster. But the useful life will be around 250k +. I can live with that as im saving £2500 a year on diesel after paying for the electricity. Its also a pleasure to drive with the smoothness of a Jaguar and id know cos ive owned 6 of them.
@@stevendavis7079 Yeah, a very dear friend mine used too own a long series of Jags.... fortunately he had a (nearly) unlimited supply of cash. They still managed to part him from a significant portion of that cash.
Thanks Pete, as always a very interesting and informative video. I’ve had EV’s for 3 years now, the only downside is the lack of public charging and the cost to charge anywhere except at home. Its not a problem for me having solar panels and a 7Kw home charger. We did struggle to find chargers on a trip up to the North East last year. It seems the government has now lost interest in electric vehicles, and the media takes delight in berating them unfortunately.
@@sahhullIf the government was trying to 'force people into them' (which is rubbish btw, Mrs. Sunak is heavily invested in fossil fuels) they would be encouraging, financially and otherwise, a proper charging network and wouldn't be opposing ULEZ. Nor would they have issued 100 new licences to exploit North Sea oil and gas
No doubt the best, understandable explanation on charging I've seen/listened to from the myriad videos available. Thank you for the well founded advice and the added touch of humor and real life input. Cheers!
Moggy is FANTASTIC!!!!
Cuts through the nonsense and explains things so simply and so well. The perfect guest. Well done 👏🏻 👏🏻👏🏻
👍
👍
Top bloke, I was in high school with him, back in the day
Love his program
"Don't listen to people with opinion. Listen to people with experience" Nicely said. A great video. Didn’t think I would listen to the finish, but I did. Great job! Thank you 🙏
I appreciate that!
Listen to God, not the trained/certified EV battery technicians that follow code or protocols that are placed by the management that are placed by the elite criminals to control you for profit. The truth is that EV batteries in a car need 3A or less to maintain long battery life. Fast charging will degrade the battery quickly. That is for the conventional battery cells for the general consumer.
And there are plenty of videos showing that EVs are not the future.
@@paulbelsey7111 What you are regurgitating is called denial.
Don't listen to people with opinions, listen to people with experience, got it. Thank you very much. Great video.
Thanks for watching!
Yes like Harry's garage has some interesting views ruclips.net/video/nZysvgm2_Aw/видео.html
Ok, listen up. My present V90 is as new, at 92,000 miles. Previous Merc on 240,000, previous V70 on 430,000. Doing 50,000 to 80,000 miles a year and still going strong.
Next....
I'm going to listen to the people who are providing actual scientific data.
@@thisisnumber0I don’t envy you doing all them miles. That’s a lot.
I learned more in that 23 min video clip, then in hours of googling. Thanks Moggy
Great to hear 👍
What’s a moggy? Name?
@@PetrolPed the only myth is that ev's are good lol batteries are JUNK!
I’m a new EV driver and this video taught me so much. Thanks a million!
for more information on EVs and other things this channel is great 😁 www.youtube.com/@fullychargedshow
He taught you that 40% of your range has disappeared if you want to keep your battery in tip top condition lol
@@SuperFredc , lol... there is always a couple of you turds in the comments. I guess you have no comprehensive skills do ya, just your "opinion" which we just learned is no good.
@@SuperFredc I imagine that most people (such as myself) don't require 40% of their range for day-to-day driving needs.
@@MoonJellyGames If it suits you, it suits you. My point still stands.
I've specialized in batteries for 25 years now and it really is an annoying career because so many people want to tell me how much more they know about batteries than I do. Unfortunately the vast majority of them have 10 pounds of opinion and 2 pounds of knowledge.
And they'll need 30,000 pounds sterling to replace the batteries
$60,000 American for a Hyundai ioniq 5 battery. What a joke@@michelians1148
@@michelians1148And people who power their cars by explosions of hydrocarbons have to replace their engines once they wear out, so?
@@pilotavery Yeah bro people have to spend £30K on replacing their engine every few tears. Also second hand cars need new engines too 🤪
@@michelians1148 I was being sarcastic, engines don't have to be replaced all that often and when they do it's very rare occurrence. It's the same with electric vehicle batteries. Only the very first generation of model s's are coming up for replacement and they are the older cells that don't last very long. The current generation lasts 200,000 mi and still has 90% left but the new LFP batteries currently shipping in the Tesla model 3 lasts easily 500,000 miles
Thank you for bringing balance into this debate
I am a petrol head and was completely anti ev till I watched this.
What a pleasure to listen to the views of a properly knowledgeable person.
Wanna search for any videos of the conversations that this company is active with
Thanks man. Great to hear 👍
So am I Dave! My last two cars, Audi S5 with a remap to 450 BHP, then a 21 plate Hyundai i30N. I am now a proud owner of a Tesla model 3 Performace. 480 BHP and 0-60 in 3.2. What more does a petrol head need? I spend about 2-3 quid charging every week and do around 100 miles. Trust me, give them a try before you judge them. Oh and Tesla build quality isn’t great, I’ll admit that but get a good warranty and they are good at replacing everything.
There's never been a reason to be anti EV unless you got all your facts our of Jezza Clarksons arse
I was and still am a petrol head at heart, but after driving a Tesla for a company car for the last year I really enjoyed the experience. I’ve now gone back to a motor (new company) and I can safely say I miss my Tesla, so my next car will be an EV.
After hearing this I am going to change my charging habits. 80% is better than I thought for what I am doing. Great information video.
This should be on a DVD with one's new EV with the manual. Something simple that new owners can watch to get them going. Actually, just READ the car's manual. It is spelled out clearly... (...what manual?)
Great idea 👍
great to have videos with the people that re-use second hand EV batteries! And fascinating to hear that the problem facing lithium battery recyclers is that the batteries are staying in use and so there are very few needing recycled!
Spot on observations, our 2016 Tesla X P100 w/140k miles gets 249mi range vs 260mi when new- as predicted. Had many naysayers tell me it would die after 100k miles, battery would be shot, etc etc and so far, it’s been the best running, most reliable car we’ve ever owned. We have 2 Model X’s and no plans to ever part with them. Also own ICE vehicles so I’m no Tesla sellout- just pragmatic car owners.
I'm driving a 2nd hand 2015 Volvo V60 PHEV D6 since 5 years with 140.000 miles on the clock. When I bought the car it was on 90K miles and the battery was on 96%. The majority of the 50K I drove the car were short distances from which almost all fully electric. And now after 5 years I still have about 90% battery-capacity. So I can confirm that these guys are right with what they are claiming.
Does your Volvo hybrid have thermal management of the battery? Our 2006 Toyota Hybrid Highlander does not. It is not a plug in. Lack of thermal management (AC cooling/Resistor Heating) makes it easier to change out the battery but allows the battery to degrade faster. AC cooling of the battery becomes an extremely important system in a BEV with thermal management.
@@weaesq To my knowledge there is no e- heating on the HV battery but there is some on the HV cabling to and from the front (battery is in the trunkfloor above the ERAD (Electric Rear Axle Drive which does by the way has an electric heater inside). But there is more than enough cooling. The HV pouches are liquid cooled by two pumps with a plate between every two pouches. If that is not sufficient than the airco kicks in and through an heatexchanger the cooling fluid is extra cooled.
Hope that's answering your question.
Still got petrol engine bills tho. Hybrids are pointless. Go full EV.
Phev's are a worst case for batteries. A battery that's deep cycled every day and then charged to 100%.
I charge my EV two times a week and still stay in th 20-80 zone because the batteries are bigger.
@@ulwur A Volvo V60 PHEV is using by design max 80% of the battery capacity. Max used is 9 Kw while the total battery capcity is 11.2 Kw.. Furthermore it was one of the first that was liquid cooled per cell. So what can be true for other PHEV's is definitely not the case for a Volvo
So glad to see a proper petrol head like Ped busting these myths. The Fully Charged Show does the same, but they're usually preaching to the converted. Ped's audience is the one that really needs to be re-educated. (I'm a 72 year old life-long petrol head myself)
Thanks Chap 👍
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I’m so glad this video got the number of views that it did, we need more truth and transparency on this topic. There’s been too much misinformation, fake news, and propaganda, about EV’s and their batteries. Some of it is malicious, but a lot of it is simply ignorance. This is a relatively new technology that hit the market with a huge splash, and there hasn’t been enough time for people to catch up with the facts. Videos like this is exactly what the public needs now!
As they say, every day is a day at school, that was an education. BRILLIANT, 'Don't Listen to people with Opinions, Listen to People with Experience' thanks Moggy best advice I've heard in over 50 years !! 👍
The problem with that is that even people with experience often have a reason to say what they say. Doing what he does for a living, Moggy isn't going to declare that batteries are rubbish even if they are, right? I mean: he's selling these conversions for a living.
He gains financial benefit from telling you what he does. Not saying he's lying but that it's hard to find an independent party these days. Everyone has an agenda.
@@spencerpieters5502 including you.
@@FFVoyager Absolutely! Never ask your questions to a sales guy. Find an independent source.
@@spencerpieters5502 how do you find an 'independent source' on EV battery technology who is not involved in promoting EVs? 🤔
I agree 👍
Just purchased my first EV and decided to watch this again and wanted to thank you both for some really useful and informative advice which helped to remove some of my concerns and also will help with charging etc. Brilliant stuff thanks again.👍
Our pleasure!
I am an old git but you're never too old to learn. Very intuitive and it has me thinking. Keep up the good work both you and moggy. 👍👍 a thumbs up each 😄
Not sure how much of an "old git" you are lol but I bought my first EV at 63, best car I have had, 22,000 miles a year, sometimes 400+ a day, saved me a fortune!
Thanks, will do!
We have a Chevy volt that is 10 years old and has 40,000 miles on it. We are officially an elderly couple and very rarely drive beyond the range of the batteries. We live in town and 90% of our driving is within a 20 mile round trip. If we anticipate driving farther than the range of the batteries we put the car in mountain mode . This mode essentially guarantee that the battery doesn't get down all the way on the trip before the small gas engine kicks in and starts charging the batteries. GM wants the gas engine to be used at least 10 minutes every month anyway and and has this programmed into the system. Once in a while I let the car run the batteries down until the engine kicks in in normal mode to check on battery degradation. So far we have noticed no degradation that we can notice. The car has given us 40000 trouble free miles and has so far shown no evidence of body corrosion. At this rate and our very senior driving style we anticipate this car should, barring an accident, last us the rest of our lives. Given our low electricity rates it only costs us $1.50 to drive 50 miles which ain't bad. And you guys are correct, there's an awful lot of misinformation out there concerning electric cars from people who never owned or driven one.
not everyone drives like you, and not just locally, the range anxiety, not turning on the A/C in summer nor the heater in winter to to conserve energy make it home, not working in the cold, not finding an available charger, i don't need that
@@josepeixoto3384 EVs are not what they were 10 years ago. There are plenty of EVs worldwide in loads of different environments that all work fine.
@@josepeixoto3384 If you like less efficiency and paying more for gasoline, that is your choice. Cars are expensive and take energy to manufacture too. Drive your ICE car for as long as you can. When you are looking at purchasing another vehicle after you have worn out your ICE or crashed it, also take a look into more efficiency and costs savings that BEVs and PHEVs can offer at that time. Normal maintenance of BEVs is easier and generally lower in costs. Replacement parts are currently more expensive with BEVs because they are so new. As time goes on, rebuilt parts are likely to become available as BEVs and PHEVs become more prevalent.
@@josepeixoto3384lol, the ac in an ev takes around 250 watts an hour to run. It's not even a thing to worry about.
And since I'm not a wimpy floridian i don't even need heat until it's less than 15 F outside.
I too drive my 6 yr o phev >80% on ⚡ (solar pwr). The mfg has a built-in reserve, to not run 🔋 to empty. But it does help to keep the charge max-min narrow as possible, for longest life. I frequently get over 99 mpg-e.
Thanks for putting out the facts. I have a 5 year old Model 3 with 100,000 miles, and it's at about 95% of my original range. I've also paid a whopping $200 in maintenance costs (excluding new tires)... which was to replace the trunk (boot) latch. I still have the original brakes... and with regenerative braking I may never need to replace the brake pads. And with over the air updates, the car is literally better than when I bought it. I wouldn't even consider buying anything other than another Tesla.
Right on!
I guess your one of the lucky ones but what about the ones that there's burned up and there house . Or just burned-out after floods in Florida. I bought a blower it lasted a few Yeats now it doesn't work cannot buy batteries for that model . Not all batteries are the same.
@@marvkwia3973 Gas cars catch fire at a higher rate than EV's... you just don't hear about gas car fires because they're not news. Also, more manufacturers are moving to lithium-iron-phosphate (LFP) which are nearly impossible to set on fire.
The combined cost savings on maintenance and charging adds up quickly, I am so happy with my M3 and will never buy ICE again.
@@aaronstock8544 I sold my M3 to my son, and my wife and I both drive MY's. I agree with you... I wouldn't drive an ICE car even if you gave it to me for free.
As much I dont like queues at charging points this year, I glad that you guys busted this myth. Got EV myself and first time in my life happy do not care about suspicious noises, oil change, discusting smoke around and so on. Just open doors, push couple buttons and drive. Also enjoy supercar like acceleration and power. Great stuff, thank you all, engineers!
African miners thank you.
@@phprofYTThey use cobalt to remove the sulphur, when they're refining petrol and diesel but cobalt mining wasn't mentioned until EVs appeared...🤔 🤫
@@phprofYTcobalt is used to make Dino fuel. But lithium is recycled.
@@phprofYT fossil fuel, hybrids, and full EVs all uses a battery but just different amounts. Regardless, anything that used a battery has ties to African slave labor.
@phprofYT They better keep digging as loads of cobalt is used during crude oil refining .
I ran a Nissan eNV200 as a nationwide same day courier. Nissans are not noted for their battery longevity, they use old tech and very rudimentary thermal management (although unlike the Leaf at least the eNV has some). But after 130,000 miles in just 2 years and a huge number of rapid charges (sometimes as many as 5 a day) it still retained 90% of it's original battery capacity and therefore range. I was more than happy with a vehicle which would still be perfectly serviceable beyond 250 or perhaps even 300,000 miles with minimal repair costs, so I've stuck with an EV and wouldn't go back to a combustion car as a daily driver if you paid me.
That isn't dissimilar to the MG5 on the James & Kate RUclips channel. James did a video over-view of one of his company's MG5's, which is used a mobile EV mechanics call out/service vehicle. This particular MG5 had covered 70k miles in just 18 months. The front tyres were changed at 41k miles, and James reckoned the brake discs and pads would see 100k miles. Despite numerous rapid charges, the battery showed 96% state of health. There had been just a single failure, and that was the latch on the charging flap in the front grille.....
I know a community transport volunteer in Loughton, Essex who bought an wheelchair adapted Nissan E NV200 ex-taxi for £8k with 180k miles on the clock and it’s in viable use most days. When I say viable, at most a return trip to a hospital in Harlow, but that’s the requirement.
Oobviously happy to waste your life at an EV charging station. Some of us have better things to do with our time
Not worried about it catching fire, exploding and burning down your house while you sleep?
After the cargo ships catching fire and sinking, the spate of electric scooters catching fire overnight killing families, think I will wait until they are safer, just like with the experimental mRNA gene therapy injections, will keep watching the excess deaths increase and keep waiting for them to finish the trials and see how safe it really is 😮
Well, at least you could have written this insanely smart comment on RUclips while drinking coffee at a nice bakery while charging your car and leave it there - try this with an ice car ;-)
Cracking video. So.. where I am now. Electric cars are fast, reliable and practical. The problem is the infrastructure. If only the UK had a proper Government that cared about things like that instead of lining their own pockets.
Indeed 👍
You can hear a British moaning from 5 miles away!!!! There are not perfect goverments anywhere in the world. I will vote you if you go for the next elections.
This guy knows his stuff. This guy also builds and sells batteries for a living. Would have liked to see a debate format.
Brilliant, thank you. I'll be sharing this about. When I was considering a new car at the beginning of 2023, I came across your channel & it really helped in the decision-making process. Your critical but balanced view was extremely helpful. In June, took delivery of a BMW iX1 (I am or rather was a Brit -thank you, Brexit - and I do live in Bavaria). I hadn't even sat in any EV before the showroom handover. Now you couldn't get me to even consider an ICE again, although at 69, I don't expect to need to buy another car again. Yes, expensive, and I had to make compromises (towing weight), but the driving pleasure now in 2023, is even greater than when I got my first used £300, 6 Volt VW Beetle based, Beach Buggy in 1972.
One of the nicer explanations of the 0-100% charging issues was comparing it to a multi-storey car park at a shopping centre: early on Saturday morning you drive in and straight into a bay, as morning progresses you need to search about & by 11am you are spending ages driving around to find a slot. That's the process that happens when you charge - ions find their way easily to start with and then increasingly have to slow down to dock into a cell.
And for the battery degradation, it's like a well poured, unfiltered Bavarian wheat beer: the Battery with its gross/net capacity is the same as the large foam head and the last centimetre at the bottom of the glass with the yeast that you don't drink - and this is where the degradation largely takes place, especially in the first 5-10 years, not in the main body.
Greetings to Sussex - I last lived near Petworth, so nice to watch some of your reviews just for the scenery!
That would be great. Thanks 🙏🏻
Even without battery temperature management our 2013 Renault Zoe 22Kw got to nearly 100,000 miles and the battery loss was only 9% from new so not too bad either and although we have now sold it (2 years ago) its still going fine as I keep in touch with the new owners.
your publicly admitting to driving a Renault Zoe ??
We had 2 but we dont any more lol @@BullyBoxer
The Zoe had active air cooling in the battery.The Leaf had passive cooling and that caused the problems.
Guess the fact the you can’t DC rapid charge the battery helps with longevity.
@@humphreybradley3060 The Continental version of the motor in the Zoe could be charged at 43 KW on AC.The fans would work hard when that was happening.
The best advice I have heard in a long time and it applies to everything not just electric cars; "Don't listen to opinions, Listen to experience." Very well said! Thank you.
Thanks 🙏🏻
It's ok to run down to 0% if you charge right away, and it's also ok to charge to 100% if you use it right away. The batteries just don't like sitting at those extremes for a period of time.
Thank you for breaking it down
My favorite battery charging explanation was
"Imagine a giant double decker stadium and the top deck is full and the bottom deck is empty. All the people represent electrons. A whistle blows and everyone scrambles to get to the bottom deck. At first there are big bottle necks, then the flow starts stabilizing. The deck starts to fill up fast till you get to the final 20%. After you get to the final 20%, most seats are occupied and people spend more time wandering around looking for an empty seat. The less seats left available the harder it is for the "electrons" to find a "hole" to sit down in so it takes longer.
Nice 👌
add beer and hotdogs and then your battery loss is greater
Not quite, we are looking at moving electrons from anode to cathode. These routes are fine. We are ultimately dealing with manufacturer tolerance.
An excellent analogy, now imagine that they don't go from top to bottom in an orderly fashion but push and shove so every time they move up and down some of them get crushed and die (normal charging), then imagine there is a stampede and lots of them are crushed to death (fast charging), this explains why batteries become useless after a number of cycles, no electrons (people) left or not enough to do any work.
Why would the bottleneck at the stadium lessen then stabilise?
An hour glass seems to flow at the same rate regardless of the amount of sand on top.
Tons of great info, just got my Model Y. Yes I've had to supercharge, as I have yet to get my home charger (in hand) installed. Going to 80%. I love it. Thank you both for killing those myths! Cheers from TX, USA!
As an electrican with limited understanding of EV capability AND now a new owner of an EQC, this is a really great, simple explanation of battery capabilities. The main takeaway being, every person that has given me their opinion on EV ownership and batteries, doesn't own an EV!
Yes, things go wrong and I've got a warranty, but the data coming back now shows that for daily commuting, EVs can work... and work well. Great video.
Thanks 🙏🏻
Good luck when the warranty runs out (and good luck selling your car then, for any money to talk about, i.e. second hand value), unless you have a car with battery swap, i.e. a NIO.
@@martina5328What are you rambling about grandpa? Resale on his EV is phenomenal. Look them up. This isn’t magic; stop with the fake news fud. Have you tried an EV? You must own stock in swappable batteries. The batteries last longer than the ICE vehicles ever would. Watch the video you are commenting on. Ffs.
This is the first video I've seen that might, just might, change my anti EV viewpoint. Very clear message. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Until you need to charge it up on a road trip.
@@ysmf888the point with owning an EV is that %99 of peoples journeys are less than 100 miles..
I have owned an EV for 3 years and haven’t had to use public charging more than 3 times.
Believe it or not, China and its people are far more tech savvy that us westerners and if they have almost 50% NEV adoptions, it is because they know it is a much better tech than ICEs. If you get a good one (Teslas, Hyundai/KIAs, and almost any of the top Chinese models, Polestar, Volvo, MG, etc. etc.), you will get a much more advanced, compelling, affordable vehicle than if you went with ICEs. Usually much safer and more fun to drive to boot.
Love your perspective. Im a total petrohead, love the sound of a cross plane crank or 3 rotor engine. I also love electricity too. Id rather use a 3ph pressure washer than deal with a diesel driven pump. Same with yard tools and power tools, rather use ego 56v yard tools than small gas. My cheap model 3 fits the bill for commuting and convenience. Diversity works for financial portfolio and I think it applies to cars too, 3x f150 seems as stupid and 3x teslas. Americans are lucky to be able to afford multiple cars tho.
Appreciate gearheads like you being openinded.
Very well explained totally agree with everything he’s said, I’ve just passed my level 3 in IMI EV maintenance just to add you can change the cells individually to take your battery back up to 100 percent
More cost effective than changing the whole batter, EVs are great it’s the infrastructure that needs to catch up
Thanks 🙏🏻
Cleveleys in Gloucestershire, have been carrying out battery refurbishments for years.......
They are not green nor is changing the infrastructure.
Pedro, this video was Goldilocks! Great to have straight talk from credible experts.
Shout out to Moggy and crew. Really miss Vintage Voltage, have cycled through both seasons a couple times.
Thank you 🙏🏻
Absolutely brilliant.. We've just acquired a new Kia Niro EV for our son on his motability scheme. I'm now much more confident we made a good choice. Thanks guys.
I have a Niro EV press car this week. Very good car 👍
Lifelong petrolhead but now an EV convert. Dubious green issues aside, they are great as a daily driver, fast, smooth quiet. Still keep a classic ICE for weekends mind ;)
I am a nailed on Jag fan and loved my Jaguars, but my Tesla is the best car I’ve owned. I am so disappointed that Jaguar have not gone down the EV route. Electing to have a third-party build a car with a jaguar badge, stuck on the front.
Totally agree 👍
@@ouethojlkjn You're kidding right?? The iPace is 100% designed by Jaguar just assembled by Magna Steyr in Austria. As I understand it, Magna Steyr are building the Merc G Class, Jag iPace & EPace and some of the BMW 5 Series cars. These still belong to the respective marques. Having someone who specialises in build only is a natural progression of production engineering.
Same here! My 98th car was an EV and I love them so much more than gas cars… I have a 2017 Chevy Bolt with 250 miles range. Love love it. And yes l still have a few Petrol cars.
@@OilymoAre they even still making the iPace? 😂😂😂 It was supposed to be a “Tesla killer”. ROFLMAO
It is not even remotely close, (which is reflected in sales). I test drove one extensively and it was a huge fail compared to my Tesla in so many areas that really matter.
Great video. A Chevy Bolt in Quebec Canada has over 430,000 kms -- 267,000 miles -- on the original, non-recall battery, and he says it only has about 4-5% degradation. The Bolt has battery, motor, and electronics cooling. The battery also uses the a/c system to cool it when overly warm from driving or charging.
I don't charge my 2023 Bolt euv over 90% (which shows as a real 88%), as the math shows that GM didn't program in a top or bottom buffer into the battery. Even on level-3 charging -- which I don't do often as I don't need to -- my Bolt's charging rate slows after 50%, and drastically after 80%, no matter how much the charger can put out.
Anyone I've talked to who has an EV, and researched them before buying, loves them: including myself. After I bought my Bolt I realized I had stopped driving my ICE cars, and sold them: a 1990 Volvo 240DL wagon, an '84 Benz 240d, and an '04 VW Jetta tdi wagon.
We have a second hand BMW i3 with over 100,000km and nearly 10 years old. Recent battery test showed 97% of new capacity. A good battery management and cooling system makes all the difference :)
Great to hear 👍
Very nice but you are only talking about 10 years. That does not make a serious challenger for a fuel car.
BMW'S Are known for quality
@@Jamie-Z Ever watched Top Gear do dyno tests on old petrol sports cars to see how much power and efficiency they had lost? And that was a show CELEBRATING "fuel" cars. Keep up.
@@Jamie-ZTrue, and 10 yrs to clock up 100,000 km is a gentle life
I like the way you manage to dumb it down , no technical data , no studies references, keep it simple and select your audience.
Thanks 🙏🏻
@@PetrolPedI admire your generosity.
You mean for the hard of thinking?
lol. Op wasn’t paying a compliment.
Excellent piece. I love the concept of don't listen to opinion, listen to experience. Says it all
Thanks 🙏🏻
Gained a lot of respect for you over these last couple ev videos. You are keeping an open mind, but also a healthy dose of ev skepticism.
Combined with your own real use experiences and very honest open conversations with actual industry experts. Top shelf stuff imo. 👍🏻😎
Wow thanks for this 🙏🏻 I try and bring a balance. Next Mondays video is about diesel engines 😜👍
Very biased conversation from an EV salesman. No mention of the massive losses in battery charge and range in hot and cold temperatures. EVs are terrible both hot and cold climates. It's a scam and there isn't enough power stations to run EVs for any nation.
@@PetrolPed haha well imo we need more honest balanced journalism just like this, sprinkled with some dry whit. Seasoned with real world questions and a more mature perspective from actual real world ev user experience.
I may not watch your ice stuff (owned 80+of those in 41 years) but I'll gladly watch all your ev content especially with that car nut moggy. 👍🏻😎
@@PetrolPedlooking forward to this as I think the politicians jumped on the EV train too early! Buy the right engine for your trips, EVs for inner cities and semi local trips (until charging infrastructure catches up at least), petrol for the mid to long journeys - shorter commutes) and diesel for load lugging or high mileage users.
I saw (couple weeks back) a 3 year old diesel Passat on AUTO TRADER coming up on 105k miles, a really good buy in my opinion. All motorway miles, the perfect engine for that sort of use. No EV is going to touch that on simplicity of use, not yet anyway!
No mention on how the newer iron phosphate batteries should be / actually like being fully charged regularly (unlike Lithium ion). One for another vieod
@@BombSponge I guess Mercedes Volvo and VW don't have as smart people as you and can't see "the scam" when they announce making only EVs in few years.
That was the first information I have seen about batteries where someone actually knew what they were talking about. So informative and valuable. Really appreciate the effort than you. Totally changed my opinion about electric cars. Right though about electric motors, I was a maintenance a reliably chartered engineer in in the oil industry for over 40 years, loved the maintenance free electric motors and hated reciprocating drivers.
Great to hear. Thanks 🙏🏻
OK I will thanks.@@petemiller519
Might not becthectruth though. He sells EVs so how objective and truthful is he?
@@Anonymous-ib8so Do you always call people liars without justification? That said if you were technically minded you could have known he was being objective and truthful.
@Anonymous-ib8so Do you need someone who‘‘s never set foot in an ev to believe him or is any ev-hater a valid enough source?
It's so refreshing to see someone who identifies as 'Petrol Ped' diving into the actual facts of EV instead of blindly repeating the fear put out by the oil industry!
Thank you!
Thanks. I just love cars 👌👍
@@PetrolPed hell yeah! Same here. I don't hate ICE's. Love my Porsche 718. Love my Polestar 2. Loving cars doesn't mean having to hate EVs. That's something a lot of people don't want to understand.
Excellent video. This should be a public information film. The "talk to people with experience rather than opinions" thing applies to life in general but we tend to seek confirmation rather than illumination - a cause of so much that is wrong these days.
Thank You 🙏🏻
I bought a Nissan Leaf through my company Salary Sacrifice. Enjoyed the car immensely, and therefore decided to purchase the car after the Lease Period
I have now had the car for almost 5 years (98800 miles) and out of nowhere an alarm appeared on the dash, warning of Battery EV Fault, and that the car would shut down, which is exactly what it did in the middle of traffic. This occurred roughly 6 months ago.
I had the Breakdown service help me, but the Engineer ran a diagnostic test on the car and found some errors, and then unplugged the 12V Battery. Ran the tests and the car came up with no errors, and the car started again.
I decided to not to chance anything and therefore decided to contact the Nissan Dealer to investigate the issue on the vehicle.
They found no issues on the car after running a diagnostic test, and therefore decided to service the car and replace the 12V Battery costing me in region of £350.
2 weeks later the same thing happened again.
I got the car to the garage, of which they couldn't find the problem, but the car started again.
I decided to contact NISSAN GB, and warned both Nissan Dealer and Nissan GB that this very dangerous and felt that the car should be recalled.
2 Weeks later and again, the car breaks down in the middle of traffic.
Again Nissan, couldn't find the issue.
I opened a case with Nissan GB reporting of the problem, who they they communicated further with the dealer who I took the car to.
The Nissan Dealer then advised me that they seeked advice from their Master Tech, who stated it could be a problem with one or 2 of the cells in the Lithium Battery, but it would cost £750 to run a test, and if it it is a cell that is damaged and needs replacing will cost in region of £3500 per cell to replace!
To make things worse the Nissan Dealer has stated that they will not fix the issue as the potential damage does not fall under the 5 Yr/100000mile Warranty. They have mentioned that the fine print is that NISSAN will only replace the battery if it has degraded more than 10% within this period? I believe the car is now 100% degraded which they are arguing against.
NISSAN GB on the other hand have now closed the case. I have tried to contact them on why they have close the case, Their explanation is that the battery cannot be fixed under the warranty and have gone with the advice of the NISSAN Dealer that I would need to tow the car to their Master Tech at my own expense and get the reparations done at my own account.
The car is still at the Nissan Dealer waiting for me to make a decision.
I am lost on what options I have, and would like to seek advice on where to go from here.
It is very important people understand that buying an electric car is not as reliable as what people may think. The technology is very new, and a warning to those considering buying a used EV!
It may be coming but I have to say I will be sticking to the ICE for as long as possible, although at my age a quality ICE or EV may well outlast me.
I did 235,000 miles in my vivaro van before selling it to an old colleague who, instead of using it for bits for one of his vans actually continued to use mine.
The only other issue for me is that I would like to do up a van for touring, which would have leisure batteries for general use, likely charged by the alternator rather than PV (although may have some PV too). If it was an electric van I would either need to carry a generator and some fuel or I would need to recharge as I travel, which in some locations may not be an option.
As an electrical engineer I can confirm that the degradation of the batteries is about right, we generally request no more than 10% loss over a ten year period for UPS systems in the data centre design.
There is only the one major drawback for EV cars and that is infrastructure, a place to charge if you live in flats etc where there may not be sufficient access to your own charger.
Perhaps we will achieve levitation too so that they can be charged from your balcony 😂
I stick to beaters, pay for car 500-1000 euro drive few years then scarp it and get another one. Works best for me. I dont see how its saving money to pay 50000+ euro for EV and goverments will tax them its just a matter of time. Also probably insurance gonna be very high on those since whos gonna cover batreries in case of crash? EV is ok as second car and most who has EV have it as second car + owning house. Young people in rented place will be forced to walk once ban on ICE cars happens..
I was debating for months now if I should buy an electric car as my new drive. This video absolutely convinced me that it's time to go electric. Thank you! Tesla Model 3 ordered.
I did this time last year. Wouldn't go back.
Fools!
You ordered the best model available right now 👍
340 miles real world at the moment.
Perhaps it would be worth your while to watch some of the ev owner’s videos to get their perspective before you commit to parting with your hard earned money.
Furthermore, you also have to factor in the fact that this gentleman business is converting cars to electric. It is not in his best interests to say ev battery life is like a box of chocolates. His interests lie in stating that ev’s are the best thing since sliced bread.
@@andylives5575 christ
Very informative video, thank you. My first EV was a 10 year old Peugeot Ion and its battery was degraded to 70% of its original capacity. In town use you could get max 60 miles in summer and half that in winter, or less if you really caned the heater. Needless to say I always charged it to 100%! I now have a new e-Up with 32kWh battery. I still charge it to 100% because the winter range is only 110 miles and I find charging is a faff (wet dirty cable in the dark, ugh) and b) it's a lease car so it's someone else's problem when I'm done with it. In reality it will be the third or fourth owner at 8 to 10 years old who might find it's slightly more degraded than one that's been lovingly wrapped in cotton wool and kept between 20 and 80% all its life. But by the sound of this video we're talking a few percentage points not double digits degradation... so who cares.
Great video, Pedro. You and Moggy have a great rapport. 😊
One thing Moggy forgot to mention, though, is the difference between gross battery capacity and useable battery capacity. Most EVs have batteries with built-in top and bottom buffers to protect the battery from ever being 100% full or 100% empty. Another reason degradation is now so low. For example, the Tesla Model 3 long-range has a gross capacity of 82kWh, but the useable capacity is 75kWh.
They did mention it, compared it to gas tanks that still have miles to go when they hit empty. Don't think any have top buffers, but they all have bottom reserve capacity of various sizes. Some Teslas have limits put on capacity, so a 70kWh battery that you can only use 60kWhs of may be considered a top buffer, but it's just a way to sell a cheaper car that the owner may some day decide to unlock for additional monies.
Where the fuck were you during the part of the video where he talked about that ! not to bright huh?
Thanks for this. Keeping it real is the way forward.
I have a 23 year old Jaguar with 50k miles on which for some has the wrong shape key but no rust.
Equivalent EVs still have the wrong shape price tag for my use but £40k was right for someone in 1999.
I paid £3k for it 5 years ago and haven't worried about the shape of the key.
Learning how to minimise degradation is best practice.
Low maintenance could get lost in translation as no maintenance.
If people hog the battery packs to run houses on the cheap, where are the realistically affordable battery packs for cars supposed to come from?
@@israndy"Don't think any have top buffers," No, some have a reverse top buffer, if you fill them to the brim and a bit more you suffocate the emission vapor canister, produce a hydrolock and the car is dead.
Good point!
I had no idea these batteries are 100% recyclable, this is great to hear. Only driving 6K per year it would make sense for me to get a battery car but I'm still not feeling confident enough with the infrastructure but I am sure I will have to make the move in the coming years. Great video and love Moggy's passion.
About 96% recyclable but still one hell of a lot. What's more, the reclaimed minerals are of a high enough quality to be used again to make more batteries. 👍
Just goes to show that we all get our own personal stream of information. There has been loads of stuff out there (inc. here on YT) for a couple of years now explaining and even showing the process of recycling (often repurposing EV cells for electricity storage) or repairing and reusing. The media doesn't seem to want to make such a big deal of this - but then it probably isn't clickworthy enough.....
@@michaelatkinson7577not recycled to big
@michaelatkinson7577 Spot on, Michael. Batteries have a much longer useful life span than most people think. Personally, I believe many of these stories are deliberately started in an attempt to undermine the EV industry.
I recently learned that oil companies like Shell and ExxonMobil have allegedly spent $60 million on social media influencing since 2017. There was also a report by "eminent scientists and experts" that challenged climate science and argued that net zero targets should be toned down.
The report was a complete fabrication and commissioned by a US 'think tank' with affiliations to ExxonMobil and other polluting industries.
@@FullFact548 Indeed. And batteries not recycled can be used by the energy industry, usually in commercial, industrial or domestic applications. There is a large sports stadium in Utrecht in Holland, powered by 200 old Nissan Leaf batteries, charged via solar. There is also a large wind farm in South Wales, which uses many ex BMW i3 batteries for energy storage. There is virtually endless scope and potential for older EV batteries.......They may no longer be viable for car use, but still have plenty of life for alternative uses.
Moggy always explains stuff so well and in an easy to understand way. Hopefully cleared up some myths as well
The guy has a vested interest in promoting EV's as his business is EV conversion of ICE cars. So clearly he is going to paint a rosy picture of everything EV.
No myths busted here, the mechanic confirmed that battery degradation is real over time and excess use. Most EV owners are clueless about car maintenance and abuse their vehicles, excessive charging use and overall carelessness.
@@SalvageMasterEssex I don't think he painted a rosy picture, just told the truth. He agreed batteries do degrade but nowhere near as much as people think and he even agreed older cars will degrade more. The truth is if you're buying a modern EV you'll never likely have to replace the battery.
@@SalvageMasterEssex the 200,000 mile 90% degradation figure Moggy quoted is published and widely reported data from Tesla. It’s data from early Model S and Model X cars that had done over 200k miles. So old technology compared to current batteries.
As a businessman selling expensive classic EV conversions with a high social media profile Moggy could lose a hard earned reputation if his statements weren’t based on fact.
Cheers Guys 👍
Great video! I knew pretty much everything mentioned as I've been driving an electric for 6 years but Moggy explained it so well that it became a wonderful refresher.
Well done!
Glad you enjoyed it 👍
Another great video, as always Moggy is able to use simple comparisons between ‘combustion engine’ terminology and how that equates to the electric world. The interaction and banter between the two of you, is always fun to watch. Keep up the good work - both of you.
Thank you!
But is it thectruth?
@@Anonymous-ib8so Nope. It's a cope. EVs suck hard.
You can charge an LFP battery to 100%.
Due to the different chemistry they're not as energy dense but they can be charged to 100% without the fear of excessive degradation and don't suffer the same fire risks.
LFP batteries are currently used in the smaller battery pack EV variants.
LIFEPO4 is used only in China and a limited run in American Tesla.
@@khalidacosta7133due to recently expired patents.
They will become the predominsnt battery chemistry for most 'normal' cars in the future.
@@khalidacosta7133all the rear wheel drive models are LFP both model 3 and Y which in the UK and Europe are all made in Shanghai.
MG4 standard range in UK, Tesla model 3 SR+ , others I forget (BYD?) @@khalidacosta7133
@@khalidacosta7133 Every new Tesla RWD sold in the UK for the past couple of years has been LFP.
My wifes Smart ForFour EQ will be 4 years old in September, it has currently done 22k. As we have recently purchased it I had a battery condition report done by Mercedes for peace of mind. The print out showed it still has 96% of its original battery capacity and all individual cells were in top condition. I would recommend that any purchaser of a used EV car insists on a battery condition report at time of purchase.
4 months ago 5 year old Merc EV. Dealer priced 8t at 5k for trade in but didn't want it as it would need a new battery pack according to their workshop check.
13k for a new pack making a used 5 year old Merc at 11k cost 18k . Fact!
Try selling it. No one wants them. They are horrendously not eco friendly.
@@scaryfakevirus 100 miles a week it’ll be 30 to 40 years old before it pays its carbon debt.
Nice 👌
10 Years + $20,000 = 2000LBS. of e-waste 🤡per car
Just sold my Leaf at 10 yers old and 55k miles. Lost about 15% of its capacity only. Was very reliable. Only real problem with it was that it never had much range when new so not much less 15% was hard to live with except for very local journeys.
This won't be a problem for the current generation of EVs as they all come with bigger batteries.
I have a 2015 Leaf and a 2021 Ioniq5. The battery tech is worlds apart, not just in range/density but conditioning and longevity.
Those first Gen Leafs are great value for money as second cars for two car families.
How much did you lose in value though on the vehicle?
It lost about £1200 pa, which isn't bad. But with the limited mileage I did, it makes for about 50p per mile, which dwarfs the 3 p per mile electricity cost.
It lost about £1200 pa, which isn't bad. But with the limited mileage I did, it makes for about 50p per mile, which dwarfs the 3 p per mile electricity cost.
Got a gas engine, never had this issue plus my reseller value is much better than your ev 😅😅
Hi PP, what an excellent video. For me I'm a dyed in the wool EV enthusiast & owner.
I charge at home off a domestic outdoor style 16 amp socket so I always have a full 'tank' to start the day. Our cheap rate overnight electricity is 13 cents per kw and my car consumes on average 13 kw/hrs per 100 kms.
But above all the arguments about running costs etc, they are just sooooo nice to drive. Smooth and quiet when you want - fast as f*** when you want.
Sounds great!
The team over at Electric Classic Cars are brilliant! Thank you for making the time and effort to produce this video.
Our pleasure!
Of course he will bestow the electric car with praise. Its in his best interest to do so.
You might as well ask a barman to give you the health benefits of beer
@@sahhull😂😂😂😂💯👏👏👏
@@sahhull He makes kits to convert classic cars to be shipped all over the world, if they didn't work as expected his business would not be thriving like it is! - I think he's said before if you want him to convert a classic now he has a 2 year waiting list to even get it in! - also he was and is a massive petrol head as well.
@@markreed9853 an EV working as expected...
So too short a range to be useful and too long to recharge.
First i read "Petrol" and "The Truth about EV..." and though: This won't end well, lots of Myths. But i was surprised: Very good Video, lots of facts and told just like it is. Thank you very much, this was great. Greetings from Germany
Thanks. That’s what I do 👍
What a wonderfully comprehensive conversation!
Thanks 🙏🏻
Excellent video, thanks.
I have a Renault Zoe that has done 37,000 miles.
When I got it, I measured what battery percentage it used, driving 50 miles at a certain ambient temperature and using no ancillaries, such as air-conditioning or heating.
Testing recently showed that it still does the same range using the same amount of battery charge.
37,000 mikes,is not a lot,though.Hope you can get to 100,000.
Renault zoe, the car that tells people you have given up on life
@@dazpain7652 The car that tells people you have better priorities in life than spending money on a lump of metal used for day to day transportation.
@@keithhooper6123 Time is as important as mileage though. Short trips miles are more taxing to cars than long trips miles. I know 10 years old cars with less than 50k miles that have been only used for short urban trips and they're in a condition that would suggest a higher mileage. Time takes its toll. On ICE cars even more so. No engine likes short use cycles where operating temps are inefficient and combustion is always subpar. All filters get clogged prematurely, carbon buildup is accelerated and faps and egrs are not regenerated. Oil is most of the time under-heated and quickly degraded, while early cycle wear and tear happens more often. Of course plastics and gums and whatnot become stiffer and brittle with time too, but that happens with all cars so its not too big of an issue.
"..... at a certain ambient temperature and using no ancillaries, such as air-conditioning or heating....." - exactly - but that's not normal driving. You don't have to do that with a petrol or diesel car and 37k is nothing. On an ICE car that's virtually a new engine. Even at 137,000 miles you would still get pretty much the same efficiency if the car has been looked after.
The one thing most forget, or don't realise, is you won't be able to use that car until it only charges a few percent of it's original capacity when recharged. Those with older, higher mileage cars often say they can still charge to 70 or 80% of it's original capacity but what they don't realise is when that drops to the point where they can only charge to 50-60% the car is practically useless, because that's more or less a dead battery.
Brilliant video. Thank you for taking the time to do this. What a great knowledge Moggy has and he is able to explain things in understandable ways to the techno spanners (me). Will definitely go and search out his website now.
Glad you enjoyed it 👍
A very informational video Sir Pete! Thank you for doing this.
I do have a coworker who owns a Tesla and had to spend 16k to fix his Tesla plaid 😮 you can buy a good used car truck or suv for that
Right on!
That's the big point I often allude to, and is why I think these EVs are more likely to get scrapped sooner than their equivalent ICE car. As they get to the 10-15 year point people know that parts are going to start wearing and they will cost so much to repair that it just isn't worth it - therefore they're going to be scrapped. I also believe that less people are likely to buy them in the first place because of the risk of a big bill. You can buy any small 10-15 year old hatchback for a relatively low price and if things go wrong you're not likely to get a big repair bill, but that's not the case with EVs. We're already seeing that even basic repairs are costing thousands.
Great information. I am set to buy a Mach E but was concerned about battery replacment cost. The 2023 and 2024 Ford Mustang Mach-E standard range models use lithium iron phosphate (LFP) batteries instead of lithium-ion batteries:, which means they last longer. Many thanks for helping with that buying criteria.
A 24 minute video is not a long video unless a person has the attention span of a Kindergarten class. When your learning something its important to spend a minute or two processing it to memory. Many content creators start-out sharing information in a Teach/Learn way. As time goes on they pay less attention to detail and cut out aspects of the process they are sharing. For example I will go to You Tube for say removing my trucks speedometer cluster to watch the procedure. Unfortunately the content provider leaves out the part where all the plastic, clips and screws were removed to get to the cluster. Then finishes the video by saying reassembly is the reverse of disassembly. My point is when making a video don't feel bad about spending the necessary time to explain a given process or procedure. I'm an EV Owner/ Solar Power System Owner/ Mechanic/ Power Plant Operator/ Industrial Electrician etc.. I still come to You-Tube to Learn and Fortify knowledge, I have Television access for entertainment. You did this video right by spending the time necessary for the subject being discussed.
Another excellent video Pedro! Now it all makes a lot more sense. I love the way Moggy explains everything so well and the fact that he has a passion for classic cars and is converting them to EV speaks volumes, he wouldn't do it if it didn't work long term and the maths didn't stack up. I've not been a huge EV fan up to now but that video has increased my faith quite a bit. Also, if eventually it's difficult to run an ICE vehicle due to lack of fuel supply I can always convert my Honda powered Rally Landcrab I'm currently building to electric to keep it going.
Brilliant! There is a ton of anti-EV nonsense on RUclips and other media right now which needs challenging and correcting. As the man says 'talk to people who have experience of owning an EV'.
Exactly 👍
Indeed, we need to bring about/cultivate a situation where potentially dubious EV advice or claims are confronted or questioned. A sort of - " do you actually have/own/ use an EV?" If the answer comes back as no, then it ought to be met with a hearty bugger off.
Very clarifying guys. Thanks a lot. I’ll listen to people with experience from now on.
Great video!
Next myth hunting, fire hazards in EVs.
Great no BS video Pete! As an automotive head , I prefer interesting carefully used cars rather than new built. I run a 2005 A2 daily with 180k miles! I would be interested in seeing a comparison between a low mileage late built BMW i3 , for example and a high mileage similar spec vehicle. A real world experience rather than an opinion (great quote by Moggie)
Thanks 👍
Great to hear those good points . One inconvenient truth that wasn’t mentioned was the subject on fire hazard. Thermal runaway is not talked about enough and it should be. Apart from being nearly impossible to extinguish the hazard from the fumes are extremely toxic.
Fortunately Thermal runaway is incredibly rare when compared to ICE fires.
The inconvenient truth is hybrids and ICE vehicles are more likely to catch fire compared to EVs. If you are concerned about your car catching fire, buy and drive an EV and rest easy.
Opinion vs Experience. Great advice!
My point is not the chance of it catching on fire but the extreme difficulty in extinguishing Ev fires. And my other point is they are extremely toxic and I mean Extremely toxic, particularly when in underground car parks ect. Also it is important to take into account the cause of ice car fires when comparing against EVs. There is a number of reasons for this, particularly the car’s condition age and modifications. This is fact but it’s your choice to bury your head in the sand.
@@waynebee5682 When the tires catch fire (very common), they are "Extremely toxic, particularly when in underground car parks ect." "This is fact but it’s your choice to bury your head in the sand."
Honestly the best explanation by a genuine genius in my eyes . Only had my new e3008 a week that video has reassured me so much I’ve had had the car by default and it’s given me real anxiety so thank you so so much 👍🏻😉🇬🇧
Great to hear 👍
Thank you Pete and Moggy. You have answered a load of important questions. Why don’t manufacturers advertise this as at the moment EV’s are bad money at the moment (I work in the motor trade at a main dealer)
I guess one reason is that main dealers don't get much post sales revenues from EVs. They need to change their business model and prepare for a future where all cars will be EVs and those cars will stay useable for much longer than fossil cars. With so little to go wrong main dealers could become restorers, rebuilders of old EVs, giving them a second life after say 15 years and 250,000 miles. This sits well with the ideas of a 'circular economy' where we are not obsessed with buying new stuff all the time. Legislation here in France already compels manufacturers of things like white goods to have a 'repairability index'..so why not with cars? So much gets thrown away because replacing the failing component is more than the value of the car. But with an EV, replacing that component would mean the car stays fixed and useable for longer. As someone who has run old cars in the past I know how it works. You have a reliable 'old faithful' until the water pump goes say...so you fix it but a year later the starter motor goes..and on and on it goes..so you scrap it. This will not be the case with old EVs
Bear in mind that you have Tesla, and then you have everyone else. The majority of the auto industry would like electric vehicles to just quietly go away. It does not suit their business model.
@@ouethojlkjn I agree that Tesla are ahead of everyone in software, charging infrastructure and motor/battery efficiency but so far my Kia e-Niro after 4.5 years and 87,000 km has been faultless. My winter/summer efficiency average is 14kWh/100 km..so easily over 4 miles/kWh and there has been no loss of range at all . The buffer on the e-Niro is 3.5 kWh, allowing a voltage buffer between the 100% operating maximum of 64 kWh and the V-Max on the cells which allow 67.5 kWh. We live in South West France and have done long hauls here, to the UK, Switzerland and Germany...Never had a problem charging, although the car is now looking off the pace on charging speeds compared to newer EVs.
Cheers Darren 👍
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 "ideas of a 'circular economy' where we are not obsessed with buying new stuff all the time. " This will NOT work in the UK!
I took a BMW i3 as a company car back in January 2017 and over the following 4 years racked up 110K miles. Since its main use was a 160+ mile round trip commute, it was frequently getting charged from below 20% back up to 100% twice a day (overnight at home and at work) on an AC charger and I saw very little deterioration in range over that period of time. I did not rapid charge it very often, mainly because of the limited availability at the time.
Did it suffer any battery degradation over that four years?
what are you driving now?
@@whocares264 - EQC 400 and (something for the weekend…) an AMG 35
@@Hybridog - hard to tell cos I tended to drive my commute (A14/M1) with the aim of having less than 10% left when I got there - so I never drove it with maximising mileage in mind…if you get my drift 🤔
@@mick6721 😀
Really nice to see a balanced, accurate and truthful report. Well done chaps
Much appreciated!
I'll Just Keep My Horse With The Buggy Behind!
My issue is the infrastructure - we are not allowed to charge an EV at home and there are no chargers within 5 miles (and they are also never working). As my wife is disabled we cannot ever have an EV, and it looks like this will be an issue in many flats/social housing as well
These things just take time. When combustion engines were new the only place to buy fuel was from a chemist
who is going to stop you charging your EV at home ?
@@patthewoodboy no off road parking, multi occupancy properties & not enough voltage capacity/infrastructure in some larger urbanised areas. Some electricity supply companies can turn down applications for charger installations
But that is not an EV problem, it is a landlord / infrastructure problem.
Also, how do you know your local chargers are not working because you don't have an EV? I simply do not believe that you go and check them daily.
Simple question: How many miles do you drive a day (or a week)? In the Uk the average daily mileage is just 20 miles per day. A typical modern BEV with a battery of around 50kWH can easily do 200 miles, that means you would have to charge only every ten days! If you do less mileage than this, then there is an even longer gap between charges!
Thank you for the information!! As a Volvo XC40 Recharge owner in the US I found this so interesting and powerful!!! Be well....
Thanks, you too!
Excellent video. Sensible questions and down to earth answers. Not too techy, but every myth explained well by Moggy. As an EV owner this put my mind at rest on several issues.
Glad you enjoyed it 👍
@@humbleindian6303 Are you seriously going to post the same comment in every thread? Big oil must be paying you well 🤣
@@therealchaydi really hope they are
I like to explain EV reliability by comparing it to vacuum cleaner or refrigerator reliability. Even my lawn mower is electric, starts every time without fail, and never serviced.
Batteries and battery management were a let down, but most makes of vehicles have brought up the reliability tremendously.
If car makers would make a battery pattern size like an AA or AAA battery that you could easily swap when its worn out by a new one and recycle the old, they could improve on the tech and make the battery even better when time comes to change. that would make ev a lot more appealing@
Fridge with a battery?
Had a Ryobi electric lawn mower and it died after 5 lawns. 😂
@@ericaulbach Do you have a Milwaukee or a Makita drill?
@@nilsoncastello4128 BMW used Samsung lithium ion battery cells in its early electric vehicles that can be individually replaced. They are hard to get to and are expensive. To increase the capacity to 300+ miles, custom batteries are now made to fit more into a chassis.
Love my EV.. I drive a 1st gen Leaf and 12 years later it is still going strong… zero maintenance costs… never once a failure… love it! And it drives way nicer than I thought it might… coming off of higher end performance cars… I was nervous.. but around town EVs have plenty of zip!
If EVs are so cheap to maintain as this sales guy touts, why have all the major car rental firms given up on EVs because they are too expensive to maintain?
its amazing that they didn’t talk about the battery fires that happens all over the globe, but i guess thats not a myth !! did you noticed in the background to the left the emergency battery fire blanket ? yeah, we don’t talk about that !!
Funny you should say that. It’s not nearly the issue it’s made out to be. For sure when an EV does catch fire it’s a huge challenge to extinguish but Petrol cars are statistically more likely to catch fire. The recent fire on the transport shop has been found to NOT have been started by an EV 👍
LFP batteries are extremely difficult to combust compared to lithium-ion. It isnt the same chemistry as the Samsung Note 8 😊
It is a myth. He did address this- he said media is driven by clicks. Negative news gets more clicks. Here are the facts: "Analysts from AutoInsuranceEZ examined data from the National Transportation Safety Board to track the number of car fires and compared it to sales data from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics. Gasoline-powered cars, about 1,530. Electric vehicles (EVs) saw just 25 fires per 100,000 sold."
Excellent video. With Moggy's experience and style of presentation and the rapport you have I could have enjoyed a longer video. The click bait brigade need to see this, but...
Well done. More like this, every couple of months ??
Glad you enjoyed it!
I was thinking about your comment on charging to 100%. Most companies create a buffer in the batteries. They actually have a usable battery usage but the battery has much more in reality.
That is true. Normally noticeable at the other end. When to get to 0% you may actually have as much as 10% left 👍
Fair enough but even Tesla recommend daily drive between 80-20 or 10-90 if you need the added range; if you can of course
What an outstanding discussion of these two.
Thanks 🙏🏻
Yes, brilliant of you all engineers and experts on batteries, a million thanks. You folks have calmed the innocent down, someone like me. Thank you again!
Great stuff! I am a bit confused about the “Keep your charge between 20-80% to prolong battery life”, because my Tesla Model Y 2023 with a LFP battery, warns me when I set the limit to 80%. It says I should charge to 100% at least once a week. Should I ignore this to save the battery? Thanks for this video - it cleared up much of the confusion.
You should charge to 100% frequently, so that the battery management system is able to balance the battery cells. Balancing means equalizing the voltage of all cells.
LFP wants to be charged to 100%.
@@littleherms3285 any li cell, no matter if lifepo or li-ion must be balanced frequently.
@@stefankaufmann8257 absolutely, Li Ion doesn't need it as often but, it really doesn't matter that much. I've been charging my phone to 100% with the cover on for 4 years now and it's just as good as it was new. "Proper" charging trumps perceived proper charging range every time. DC fast charging to 100% every time is obviously not recommended with Li Ion but, slow charging that high isn't going to generate the heat that is detrimental. The newer Li Ion chemistries are also much better than 10 years ago.
@@littleherms3285 your phone battery probably consists of only one cell, so there is no need for balancing. I have my Samsung pad set to 80% of charge, battery still works great after 2 years.
And you are right, cells and charge algorythms are more sophistacetd than a decade ago. There is a german guy with a Tesla with almost 2 million kilometers (1.2 million miles) on the clock. He has that old contract, he still can charge his car for free. So he has the 4th battery - all covered by warranty. Tesla replaces the battery, when the capacity drops below 70%, no matter what mileage. In average the Tesla battery lasts for about 500'000km i.e. 300'000 miles and he does supercharging all the time. Pretty impressive...
Makes a nice change to see a nice balanced view of the world of EV.
Thanks 👍
By someone in the EV business? Like Tesla’s BS they feed everyone calling them facts. But it’s okay, there are enough deciles that believe his every word. Like Twitter’s worked out well for $46bn!!!
Very good information to get to the point of charging not charging to 100% to extend the life of the battery pack when you're looking at your DIC and it says 100% And then you look at the cell voltages you will see that the cells are not at 100% if you charge your car all the time to 100% as indicated on the DIC you will not have heard anything charging to 100% of cell voltage
Probably should have read the Tesla warranty - the battery will be replaced if it falls below 70%. The company specifies its batteries will retain at least 70 percent of their original capacity (also known as 30 percent degradation) during the warranty period (typically 8 years). Moreover, it is more or less normal to suffer 5% degradation in the first year of normal use and thereafter it can vary due to a number of factors. By the way for a model Y the EPA rating is 212 miles which is only 340 km. In other words as long as the vehicle, which is rated by Tesla at 303 miles, can do 212 miles its covered. Now place that vehicle in a hot climate or a cold climate and you'll find the 212 miles drops further. I can tell you from personal experience of a model 3 in both a hot and cold country, by using aircon you can severely impact performance by as much as 30% e.g. in the case of the model Y (with degrade battery), you might be down to a range of 150 miles or 240km. In my case I can tell you in northern Sweden I could barely get 200 miles when new, let alone with a degraded battery (I moved it on in less than a year). Honesty is important in these discussions and your mate has a clear conflict of interest.
I live in central Wisconsin, USA and see the same wintertime issues here, namely severe range issues for basically 1/2 the year. Coupled with basically no towing capacity for contractors towing trailers. I'm not totally down on EV's for southern climes, puttin' around town, but no one ever talks about their real limitations. And we haven't even discussed lack of charging stations and not even inability of the grid to produce all this electricity, with fossil fuels or nuclear, let alone renewables. Wind and solar will not for the foreseeable future will not supply the grid, without severe long term pollution results. I always like to ask EV owners how they like their nuclear and coal powered cars. The look on their faces is priceless.
@@larryflor1696 Americans like to believe that the world doesnt exist outside their little bubble. Here in Australia most homes have solar. Since I bought my model 3, I have been essentially running it off solar. Same for most people I know. Even if you were running it off coal powered electricity, that is more resource efficient than the equivalent petrol/diesel that is shipped to the servo and then burnt in your car.
@@larryflor1696a 100% coal powered grid (which doesn’t exist anywhere in the USA) still produces less emissions then an ICE powered car. Guess you’re not aware, EV motors easily exceed double the efficiency of ICE engines. Even if coal powered electrical grid.
LFP batteries can be charged to 100% and tesla recommends doing that at least once per week. Regarding the 20-80% on other batteries, a better analogy Elon used was a car park getting full, it's harder for the electrons to find a space. Quality info from this guy. Thanks
Time also degrades battery life. 200,000 mile in 3-4 years is different than 8-10 years. These guys are so biased, but the expert here did corroborate the facts that battery degradation varies by charging frequency, temperature, individual abuse and ignorance. No myths busted here, just confirmed their not myths, just facts.
So will the car fall apert before the battery gives out? Sounds like it.
@@ianhamilton3113 If you want to be honest, Teslas are falling apart in the first few years yes.
@@mikopaq Two of my sons have Teslas. One has a small area of paint flaking off of the sill on one side. The other son has no issues. So falling apart? No.
@@ianhamilton3113 So you just confirmed that your ignorance was passed on genetically. If you can't see the glaring manufacturing flaws I hen you have no idea what quality is. Body panel misalignment is on every vehicle as confirmed by Musk himself. Imagine what fk ups you aren't seeing behind the body panels.
@@ianhamilton3113 that's just the beginning 😂
This video is a breath of fresh air compared to the endless number of those floating around the web spouting gloom and doom. Very thorough. Not a lot of detail or experience with extreme temperatures (ie freezing cold), but a giant step forward in spreading truth rather than fiction.
Thank you. I’m sending links to glass half empty friends.
Thanks bud. Share away 👍
great vid. should be put in every car meet, forum and whatnot. Super precise, informative no bs there. Listen to people with experience not with opinion - GREAT line!!!!!
Happy for you to do that. Post away mate 😜👍👊
Welcome to Wales! That rain on the roof of the factory unit is epic.
As others here have said, it's great that you have adopted a balanced view of all types of car, and I appreciate the fact that you openly state the best car you've driven for your personal circumstances is your present 3 litre diesel Land Rover defender 90. I wish I could afford one (but not in the tomb raider spec like yours) because the 90 looks like an awesome car that would suit me perfectly.
Full kudos to Moggy also. I love his channel and am a subscriber.
Yeah. That rain ruined my filming plans 😂
If you live in Wales with its closed off streets and 20mph limits, thanks to that twat Drakeford, all you need is a bike.
Our 2019 Model 3P has absolutely minimal degradation, and has been basically perfect since day 1.
I will NEVER EVER buy another ICE car. NOT EVER.
Yes we look after it, only very rarely charge above 90% and mostly less than 80%. In four years, I have spent ZERO on maintaining it- (have rotated tyres and flushed the brake fluid myself- though even that was not really necessary as it still tested fine.)
Brilliant, I bought a second hand Kia Soul. My wife and I fight over who is driving. We only get 135 store even in the summer but that is no problem. Just about everywhere we want to go is well within range. We love going up hills, because we know the battery will recharge going down the other side! We learned that lesson when we were up the top of welsh mountain at 11o'clock at night, when the forecast said we only had 15 miles in the battery, yet the satnav said we had 22 to go. We arrived at the hotel with still 8 miles. Big, big, heave of relief!
We charge using the granny and have no problems (although the garage said we would), timed for when our solar is good.
I watched 80% of the video and then decided not to go to 100% to save my subscription. Thanks, guys!
Had a Leaf from new for 4 years, done 80k miles in it and home charge to 100% most nights. Battery at 92% capacity using Leaf spy and has been for the last year.
They seem to lose around 5% in the first year and then 1% each year after that. Im told it will plateau at around 90% for the next 100k miles then it's performance will start to drop off faster. But the useful life will be around 250k +. I can live with that as im saving £2500 a year on diesel after paying for the electricity.
Its also a pleasure to drive with the smoothness of a Jaguar and id know cos ive owned 6 of them.
Thanks, but I'd rather stick with the Jag.
@@severnsea With an unlimited supply of cash, so would I.
@@stevendavis7079 Yeah, a very dear friend mine used too own a long series of Jags.... fortunately he had a (nearly) unlimited supply of cash.
They still managed to part him from a significant portion of that cash.
Future Jags will be EVs anyway.@@severnsea
@@rogerphelps9939 Won't make any difference to me.
Thanks Pete, as always a very interesting and informative video. I’ve had EV’s for 3 years now, the only downside is the lack of public charging and the cost to charge anywhere except at home. Its not a problem for me having solar panels and a 7Kw home charger. We did struggle to find chargers on a trip up to the North East last year. It seems the government has now lost interest in electric vehicles, and the media takes delight in berating them unfortunately.
Thanks for sharing 👍
If the EV was a viable form of transport... The government wouldnt need to force people into them.
@@sahhull Add this to the list of terrifying conspiracies!
@@sahhullIf the government was trying to 'force people into them' (which is rubbish btw, Mrs. Sunak is heavily invested in fossil fuels) they would be encouraging, financially and otherwise, a proper charging network and wouldn't be opposing ULEZ.
Nor would they have issued 100 new licences to exploit North Sea oil and gas
How much $$ did your solar setup cost?
No doubt the best, understandable explanation on charging I've seen/listened to from the myriad videos available.
Thank you for the well founded advice and the added touch of humor and real life input.
Cheers!
Thanks 🙏🏻