I continue to appreciate the interplay between Dave and Jonathan, it makes everything feel much more organic and interactive. Dave starting to talk w/ Jonathan was the best thing to happen to these videos since they originally started.
I love the fact he plays some of these games and is into some of the universes that are out there. He's able to compare it perfectly and explain things in a great way, but still be accepting that games won't always be 100% right (except cod vanguard obviously, we're sorry about that).
A comment on the note toward the end about standard issue: if I remember right, and admittedly I haven't gotten around to playing since 1.0 dropped, but the story in Ready or Not is that crime is so bad in Los Suenos and the SWAT team so newly formed that the people in charge of procuring equipment for the unit basically just looked at lists of everything SWAT teams from other cities have used and hit ctrl+A.
in real life it's actually quite different. depending on which state you are in there's actually a list of guns that the police are allowed to use in place of their standard weapons. so if an officer in California is displeased with his Glock, he can instead use a Staccato 2011 or one of his own personal 9mm Glocks or Barretas as long as he is the legal owner of it.
Also, in this game is full of references of Girls Frontline, a turn based RPG about firearms being handled and personified by cute anime girls. The M45 1911 pistol in Ready or Not, for example, has a QR code, if you scan it, it returns you a phrase in japanese that is a quote of the girl that personifies the 1911 in Girls Frontline.
For games where barrel length matters, a few like Insurgency and Rising Storm simulate it, but in most gunfights the only time it comes into play is when you’re kissing a piece of cover and you have to wait another second to aim the gun after popping out. The Door Kickers games are great examples of the mechanic, though, as the units you control will lower their gun if it bumps into a wall, so a longer, suppressed weapon will take some preparation and extra planning to properly go through doorways with.
Yeah, Door-kickers 2 really does make you actually consider what you're using since you're often fighting around door ways, hallways and small rooms like closets and bathrooms so things like MK18's, mp5's, pistols and some of the CIA weapons like the MP7 tend to be far more favorable in CQB.
What's funny to me is that you will usually see this featured in MilSim or similar types of games but GTAV also has it, but Rockstar's attention to detail is pretty great so not that surprising.
The first game I ever played that had that was an Unreal Tournament mod called Infiltration where your gun could get caught on walls and objects. Also the first game I played where the gun wasn't locked to the center of the screen, it had a bit of play so you could do a low ready, and the only game to my knowledge where the M249 can load magazines.
About the only police department I know of that has an AK as their primary rifle in the US (there are a LOT so forgive me if I've missed one or two) is one out in Alaska, they have a 7.62x39 AK for the harsh weather conditions as well as wild life threats like Bear. I don't think I've ever once seen a tactical team in the US with a SBR 7.62 AK, let alone an AK at all.
Was gonna comment something similar. I'm unfamiliar with any department using an AK, let alone a 7.62 variant, outside a select few in Alaska. I'm sure maybe somewhere, someplace, there's someone using similar, but it isn't really known.
Length of the gun affected things in Syndicate back in 2012. When you approached an object in the environment, the character would move his hands to try to hold the gun around the edges of it. If no edges could be reached, he would just pull the gun straight back into himself, and trying to aim or shoot would push you back away from the wall. I remember it vividly because I thought it was so cool actually seeing the gun move around the environment rather than just be some static thing on the screen. Syndicate might be worth doing a video on someday, because it had some interesting guns in it.
I was just rewatching the old ready or not videos hoping for a new one. They really did a major upgrade and fixed alot of addressed issues in the last videos. Thank you for the wonderful content Jonathan
Regarding what Jonathan said about pump action shotguns, I recently saw a video where a SWAT commander reacted to Ready Or Not. He said that some operators swear by pump actions and are allowed to use them if they prefer.
I'm not SWAT, but our standard shotguns are 870s and I personally am happy with a pump. I like semiautos too, but you can run a pump shotgun almost just as fast when you're well practiced with it. My tactical shotgun at home is also an 870, just with much nicer aftermarket bits on it.
Well, I think another reason of presence of pump-action shotguns in SWAT-type forces is the fact that pump-action shotgun can take all types of ammunition and reliably cycle them, while semi-autos can have problems with some kind of ammos, especially less-lethal ones.
my understanding as a gun geek is there's a confidence in the reliability in a pump action that isn't there in semi autos, since you manually pump you know for a fact you're chambered and loaded, while also being able to make the gun unable to fire reasonably easily by half pumping it if you get into a CQB wrestling match over it again it's up to each operators preference of course so some might prefer semi autos etc etc
I really would love to see Jonathan to react to the gun and experimentals of Generation Zero! It’s got some well done guns, and really cool sci-fi guns with the experimentals
As a gun geek the fact they actually animated the selector being used correctly or even at all on the MP5 that is a detail that i have never seen in a video game. Fantastic.
I'd love to see you guys cover the weapons from Reciever 2. It's a little known indie game with only 7 pistols in its entire arsenal, but it has probably the most realistic weapon handling out of any game I've ever played, especially with the added challenge of malfunctions or times when you need to make the weapon safe and empty as fast as possible.
How is the modding scene for Receiver 2 these days? The first one had some great mods like a fully functional nerf gun that harmlessly bounced off everything.
11:30 If I remember correctly from Sierra Online studio's 1995 FMV PC game, Police Quest: SWAT, an FBI Statistic listed the national average of law enforcement sharpshooter engagements at around 70 yards.
In tarkov the length of the gun also matters to some extent, guns can get squashed up against walls and players can run into you and effectively push the gun out of the way
H3VR, being a physics-led simulation, very much has the size of weapons having a significant effect in close quarters. Clearing a house with a G3 vs a MP5 is a very, very different experience! Getting a suppressor is nice, but you often really have to think about how it effects manuverability. Hitman (the first one) also had this, with being a 3rd person game, it and was even possible to shoot yourself in the jaw with the right (wrong) weapon by pushing up against an obstacle and firing at the same time. DayZ apparently has this as a feature, but I have not played it.
10:05, the best game I've seen concerning weapon length is Ground Branch, instead of the thing you see in a few games of the gun rising when you go close to a surface, you instead pull the gun into your body first until the point where you have to rise it so that you can still keep your barrel down range. That game also have my favourite options for avoiding flagging, allowing you to raise up or lower your gun with your mouse wheel. Final cool feature (that isn't as annoying as it sounds), the longer you keep your weapon raised (especially aimed) the less stable it becomes (but not to a painful degree), encouraging you to lower your weapon and let your arms rest when outside of combat
I'm really glad for that slow-mo shot of the AK platform being reloaded, it's quite satisfying and almost beautiful to see the magazine release not only be thumb pressed, but remain so until depressed by having the new one seated into the lower receiver! Such detail
I did the first ten missions less-lethal, I don't blame Jonathan for opting-out. It's a fun challenge in the earlier missions, but you quickly get sick of weapons that are inconsistent and ineffective half the time
once I realized ranking lower only affected cosmetic unlocks and not mission unlocks I didn't care, I still used restraint to keep the score as high as reasonable but it was a much more enjoyable experience using lethal rounds
They have two variants of the pepper ball ammunition, a round ball used in traditional hopper fed "non lethal launcher", often a Tippmann 98 Custom of some variety but not limited to that make and model and magazine fed non lethal launcher/paintball pistols and the first strike type used in mag fed paintball markers like the EMF-100 from Planet Eclipse and the FN 303 if I recall. FN had help from Air Gun Designs(AGD) on the pneumatics of the launcher for that one, AGD designed the extra reliable .68 Automag way back in the late 80's and 90's and used it as the base for the system in the FN 303. I have a EMF-100 set up as a scenario marker that is exclusively mag fed now. They look .68 caliber round nose training grenades you would see in a 40mm M203 or M230 grenade launcher but without the rim, they fly far and straight when compared to their round ball style cousins. good enough flight characteristics that you can use modern red dots with FS style rounds with good results.
I can't think of any other fps games where the length of the weapon matters, but doorkickers (or at least DK2) does actually have weapon length as an important mechanic. Red Orchestra also had weapons pressing up against objects, but I can't recall if longer weapons were worse than shorter ones there.
I played the Original DK, It also had weapon length mechanics. DK2 is basically just a re-painted, WD-40'd and generally improved version of the original. Not too many features in DK2 that weren't in the Original. (Sorry for necro but I saw DK mentioned and had to
9:35 One of the very rare instances Jonathan is wrong, there was the obscure G41 prototype, basically the HK33 with a bunch of M16 features like STANAG mags, bolt hold open, dust cover and "foward assist".
Yep, I was surprised by that, because I'm pretty sure they've got one at the museum. Still, I guess it's one of those moments when you realise experts aren't walking encyclopaedia, and they occasionally forget or misremember things, just like we all do.
@@peterclarke7006 A quick check shows that the Royal Armouries collection database does indeed list a single H&K G41. Its origin is given as the Pattern Room collection and its date of manufacture is given as around 1985.
7.62x39 is actually great out of short barrels as the round doesn't lose much muzzle velocity even down to a ten inch barrel. The recoil isn't even that bad if the gun is well tuned.
Very interesting seeing Dave use the torch on the Less-Lethal Glock as a sight given the real world precedent for doing so. Notably a technique used by the SAS in CQB with their MP5s.
The reduction in muzzle velocity isn't as much as you would think with 7.62 x 39 out of a shorter barrel, mostly due to it being a lower pressure round. Many people modding their own guns have found that it's actually a great choice to put a suppressor on as well.
12:45 5 years ago in 2019, Hong Kong Police SDU were seen using M320 without any less-lethal marking during one of its public order operations, the launchers were apparently used for firing CS gas munition. Considering that this unit never used frags and never has one before, the intended purposes of these M320s might just be launching flashbang and CS shells into rooms where the suspects barricaded themselves in.
Can I change my order for next week? We've guests coming, so can I get an extra two pints of semi-skimmed, three pints of orange juice and two dozen eggs, please?
I really like the tapping the mag against the bottom of your pistol right before you insert it. Totally what I do, and its very similar to sheathing a sword.
DayZ also takes account of the length of the weapon. I once died because I had a full length double barrel shotgun and couldn't shoulder it when a zombie was on me
A lot more games nowadays do simulate barrel length. The first one i can think of that made a big deal out of it would be Sandstorm. But Squad also simulates barrel length
@@SnakebitSTI Which makes sense considering that there's no real difference (at base value) between actual collision of the weapon with environment and a check if it'd collide with it and then just moving it. Would sure be fun to get your rifle stuck on a corner because you`re straight at the wall with actual collisions, but it's honestly a lot of extra work for something you can just emulate with a distance check, not to mention that it'd be pointless without having to manually change how you hold the weapon. And I honestly don't even want to figure out how annoying getting actually stuck with that would be after a while or how often it bugs something out.
I don't recall if you have ever covered it, but there is a French GIGN unit that adopted 12in CZ Bren 2s in 7.62x39 relatively recently, which you might find interesting.
Once again kindly asking for a Valkyria Chronicles video. I just know Jonathan would have a lot to say. Weapon attachments, upgrades, the lances in general. The man would have a field day!
Worth noting that the later games (even VC3, which stars the same forces in the same era as the original game) dramatically lessened how lance-like Lances were, as though even the developers thought their appearance in the first game was *too* on the nose.
I almost forgot that I had this question in my head, but here it is: Are there any real guns or weapons in the collections of the Royal Armouries that makes Jonathan feel almost as uneasy as he does when seeing the brain-breaking abominations in some of the games you have already reviewed (to our great pleasure, I admit)?
The closest thing i can think of is the MP5 with the underbarrel grenade launcher just like in Half Life. But yeah, would love to hear from the man himself
Do Ghosts of Tabor! They make a concerted effort to make their guns feel true to life, and it works. The Vector in that game is one of the few times where I've felt the horizontal recoil properly
Re the comment in the MP9 section about the length of the gun mattering; it happens in Tarkov as well (b/c of course it does) - to the point where you can barrel stuff your opponent if your weapon is shorter than theirs
9:33 Johnathan, I think you meant "the only mp5" since H&K also made the G41, and that is also a roller delayed rifle with an attempt at AR-style ergonomics and everything.
The strange thing about lack of minimum distance in games is that a few actually do show an animation of your character no longer pointing their weapon if you're directly next to a wall, but I can't think of any where it's based on barrel length. On police grenade launchers: "Forty" or "Fourty Mike Mike" is standard US police terminology for launchers (even among general patrol officers), and when departments release video with subtitles or narration they are consistently called things like "40mm less lethal launcher" (or such). I have never seen a 37mm mentioned in badge cam video. I suspect the "1033 Program" resulted in 37mm getting phased out among US police as the military gave them a bunch of free forties. There's a bit more leeway in arms choice in PDs. A relatively large number of US PDs do allow officers to pick their sidearm from an approved list, and plenty have changed to new ones while allowing existing officers to keep their old one. The so called "patrol carbines" largely entered existence (phasing out gov issued shotguns with buckshot) by departments allowing officers to take keep personally owned long arms in their patrol cars with minimal (or no in the case of Mesa Arizona) restrictions. This could result in an incredible variety (I've heard of M1 Carbines being used because everything else was too scary for the brass) even if the overwhelming majority are Armalite pattern and *all* of them would be semi only. A SWAT officer having such a personally owned carbine and bringing it when called to muster is entirely plausible. 67th week of asking for episode on Bullet Girls Phantasia, 43rd week of asking for Loadout on games (not) keeping track of the round in the chamber(s) between reloads.
i wish i remembered what game it was i played where hugging too close to a wall would have your character hold the gun sideways across his body for long guns and hold it upward for pistols. i believe pistols would actually be slightly quicker "on target", i.e. aligning with the crosshair again than long guns.
Would love a video discussing why HK makes the design decisions it does (i.e. no bolt open on the roller delayed weapons, unless specifically requested)
Maybe because of reliability concerns. Roller-delayed HKs insist on using of HK-slap even in manuals not just to look cool, but to ensure that bolt will have enough energy to fully go to battery.
Please Jonathan Ferguson, the keeper of Firearms & Artillery at the Royal Armouries museum in the UK, break down the weapons from *METAL GEAR SOLID 3* before the remake comes out. So many weapons in MGS3 to react and comment on like the Patriot's infinite ammo magazine, the EZ tranq gun, Snake's customized officer M1911A1, Snake whittling the pistol grip to use a knife for CQC, Ocelot's SAA juggling skills, The End's paratrooper tranquilizer Mosin Nagant, the Davey Crockett recoil-less nuclear launcher and Eva's chinese mauser clone. There are so many more other interesting trivias and weapons in MGS3 so please gamespot and Johnathan make a video for the game.
I think the reasoning for the short barreled AK mentioned early being in 7.62x39 rather then 5.45 is that 5.45 after certain import bans was very difficult and expensive to get in the US. If it still is i don't actually know.
On the weapon length thing, as ever, Tarkov is another good one for taking it into account. It also makes longer heavier weapons slow your movements down, and they are harder to aim down sights for long with as there's a separate arm stamina meter (the latter effect is a bit overdone, but it's interesting).
I'd like to see Jonathan review the guns of Prey (2017), Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare, Call of Duty: Black Ops Campaign, Classic Tomb Raider, The Callisto Protocol and/or Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth 👽🪖🔥💀🚀🐙
It's what's often called a "simunition" gun. It's not actually intended to be a less-lethal firearm to use operationally, but rather something that you use in training. In the game, you only use it in training at the shoothouse. We do exercises with them where we can role play different scenarios and shoot each other. The projectile is a little capsule filled with basically coloured detergent, so it's a bit like a paintball but with much higher velocity and firing out of an actual gun.
@@TheBulapThat would only be the Cadet version or however it's called in America. There are two versions of a less lethal Glock 17. One fires rubber bullets and there's the police only version that fires plastic bullets. The police one has just the lower receiver blue. The rubber bullet one is called Glock 17T from traumatic and is a common self defense gun in Europe. There's also a .43 caliber paintball shooting version of the Glock 17 that's made for self defense.
to go off what Bulap said, it works just like a real gun but the weight and strength of the springs are lightened so it will cycle lighter projectiles with a lighter powder load, at least as far as I understand
@@under-chonker I must have them confused with another youtuber then, and of course youtube's search is full of shorts and unrelated content so I can't find the video I'm thinking of.
It's really amazing how much history and nuance you can learn about different tactical units and their cultures just by watching two knowledgeable and curious dudes critique video game guns.
Do you think if someone broke into his house would the robber just hear “This is Jonathan keeper of firearms and weaponry at the royal armories muesem.”
As for the "cumbersomeness factor" of using weapons depending on the type of environment and length of the weapon, the tactical sim "Doorkickers" does this. Although it's not a shooter like Ready or not, you need to be able to use weapons depending on the environment: longer weapons won't bother you on a beach but will severely impact you indoors with tight coridors
the first other game that comes in mind about "weapon length matters" is Tarkov where you first pull the firearms further to your body or start to hold them sideways if too close to a wall.
Jonathan has in fact reacted to another game where the gun length matters, and seen a clip of it in action. In Escape from Tarkov your gun will go into a raised position and not fire if someone gets closer to you than it is long. This can be used as a way to clinch a close in fight against someone who isn't aware of the mechanic.
I love my p320 extended as it's 30 rounds. That weight helps a lot with recoil so you can go for punchier rounds to start and finish with lower recoil. Or just keep on plinking a few hundred, then feel how low recoil self defense ammo are.
Someone else may have said it already, but DayZ is another game where the length of your weapon matters. Weapons have collision with the environment which prevents them from clipping into objects - your character will raise the weapon to avoid clipping.
Pepper gas does hang around in the air a bit, although you can't really see it. Kind of like how cutting an onion. You can't see it, but you know it's there. Just much, much stronger.
Would love to see you guys do the guns of Ground Branch which is another game that has the weapon length system, it also has a stamina system to do with your arms where they get tired from holding your gun out for too long.
Devs must love it when they get Jonathan's stamp of approval on their gunplay
I would hope so since they genuinely put effort in to replicate every single real firearm. It's a realistic SWAT shooter for a reason.
I continue to appreciate the interplay between Dave and Jonathan, it makes everything feel much more organic and interactive. Dave starting to talk w/ Jonathan was the best thing to happen to these videos since they originally started.
Especially because Jonathan used to reply to Dave without us hearing what Dave said prior
Yesss. Jonathan is great and Dave just adds to it.
Probably becoming my favourite part. Other than the man himself.
Agreed, the two of them do a fantastic job
I don't like dave. Jonathan alone was enough and better.
I love the fact he plays some of these games and is into some of the universes that are out there. He's able to compare it perfectly and explain things in a great way, but still be accepting that games won't always be 100% right (except cod vanguard obviously, we're sorry about that).
Poor Jonathan, he had to go through that.
A comment on the note toward the end about standard issue: if I remember right, and admittedly I haven't gotten around to playing since 1.0 dropped, but the story in Ready or Not is that crime is so bad in Los Suenos and the SWAT team so newly formed that the people in charge of procuring equipment for the unit basically just looked at lists of everything SWAT teams from other cities have used and hit ctrl+A.
You can even see it in the HQ, which is literally just a railway museum but with police posters plastered on the walls.
in real life it's actually quite different. depending on which state you are in there's actually a list of guns that the police are allowed to use in place of their standard weapons. so if an officer in California is displeased with his Glock, he can instead use a Staccato 2011 or one of his own personal 9mm Glocks or Barretas as long as he is the legal owner of it.
@@frostsoul4199 *Beretta, not Barretas 😀(sorry, Italian proud here)
@@TheMash84 thanks
BYOG: bring your own gun!
Also, in this game is full of references of Girls Frontline, a turn based RPG about firearms being handled and personified by cute anime girls. The M45 1911 pistol in Ready or Not, for example, has a QR code, if you scan it, it returns you a phrase in japanese that is a quote of the girl that personifies the 1911 in Girls Frontline.
Interesting. Never knew they play Girls Frontline. Gonna check it out. Thanks.
oh, neat
If I remember correctly, the UMP45 and HK416 in this game also has a 404 number on the side.
For games where barrel length matters, a few like Insurgency and Rising Storm simulate it, but in most gunfights the only time it comes into play is when you’re kissing a piece of cover and you have to wait another second to aim the gun after popping out.
The Door Kickers games are great examples of the mechanic, though, as the units you control will lower their gun if it bumps into a wall, so a longer, suppressed weapon will take some preparation and extra planning to properly go through doorways with.
Another reason why shooting off-cover is better than crowding your cover.
Yeah, Door-kickers 2 really does make you actually consider what you're using since you're often fighting around door ways, hallways and small rooms like closets and bathrooms so things like MK18's, mp5's, pistols and some of the CIA weapons like the MP7 tend to be far more favorable in CQB.
What's funny to me is that you will usually see this featured in MilSim or similar types of games but GTAV also has it, but Rockstar's attention to detail is pretty great so not that surprising.
The first game I ever played that had that was an Unreal Tournament mod called Infiltration where your gun could get caught on walls and objects. Also the first game I played where the gun wasn't locked to the center of the screen, it had a bit of play so you could do a low ready, and the only game to my knowledge where the M249 can load magazines.
Trespasser had guns that physically exist in front of the player and bump into stuff back in 1998.
About the only police department I know of that has an AK as their primary rifle in the US (there are a LOT so forgive me if I've missed one or two) is one out in Alaska, they have a 7.62x39 AK for the harsh weather conditions as well as wild life threats like Bear.
I don't think I've ever once seen a tactical team in the US with a SBR 7.62 AK, let alone an AK at all.
Was gonna comment something similar. I'm unfamiliar with any department using an AK, let alone a 7.62 variant, outside a select few in Alaska. I'm sure maybe somewhere, someplace, there's someone using similar, but it isn't really known.
Length of the gun affected things in Syndicate back in 2012. When you approached an object in the environment, the character would move his hands to try to hold the gun around the edges of it. If no edges could be reached, he would just pull the gun straight back into himself, and trying to aim or shoot would push you back away from the wall. I remember it vividly because I thought it was so cool actually seeing the gun move around the environment rather than just be some static thing on the screen. Syndicate might be worth doing a video on someday, because it had some interesting guns in it.
Syndicate 2012 deserved much better than it got - great game for the time
Glad to see Jonathan finally back at his original setup.
I was just rewatching the old ready or not videos hoping for a new one. They really did a major upgrade and fixed alot of addressed issues in the last videos. Thank you for the wonderful content Jonathan
If anything, the 7.62 sbr would serve as an equal opportunity flashbang in a SWAT situation.
Fill it only blank and bam!!! you got a full auto flashbang dispenser
@@artyomgunard4491wouldn’t the action not cycle if it’s firing blanks?
that's what I thought, the minor concussive blast would be beneficial in CQB I'd assume
Regarding what Jonathan said about pump action shotguns, I recently saw a video where a SWAT commander reacted to Ready Or Not. He said that some operators swear by pump actions and are allowed to use them if they prefer.
Cycles more reliably than an automatic
I'm not SWAT, but our standard shotguns are 870s and I personally am happy with a pump. I like semiautos too, but you can run a pump shotgun almost just as fast when you're well practiced with it. My tactical shotgun at home is also an 870, just with much nicer aftermarket bits on it.
My agency has Benelli M4’s, but you’d be surprised how many road guys still swear by pump action Mossbergs. Myself included.
Well, I think another reason of presence of pump-action shotguns in SWAT-type forces is the fact that pump-action shotgun can take all types of ammunition and reliably cycle them, while semi-autos can have problems with some kind of ammos, especially less-lethal ones.
my understanding as a gun geek is there's a confidence in the reliability in a pump action that isn't there in semi autos, since you manually pump you know for a fact you're chambered and loaded, while also being able to make the gun unable to fire reasonably easily by half pumping it if you get into a CQB wrestling match over it
again it's up to each operators preference of course so some might prefer semi autos etc etc
I really would love to see Jonathan to react to the gun and experimentals of Generation Zero! It’s got some well done guns, and really cool sci-fi guns with the experimentals
Seconding this. I feel like Jonathan would appreciate finding a Swedish K in the boot of an 80s Volvo
As a gun geek the fact they actually animated the selector being used correctly or even at all on the MP5 that is a detail that i have never seen in a video game. Fantastic.
I'd love to see you guys cover the weapons from Reciever 2. It's a little known indie game with only 7 pistols in its entire arsenal, but it has probably the most realistic weapon handling out of any game I've ever played, especially with the added challenge of malfunctions or times when you need to make the weapon safe and empty as fast as possible.
Another Receiver 2 fan? There are tens of us.
Simply tens of us, waiting in the shadows.
How is the modding scene for Receiver 2 these days? The first one had some great mods like a fully functional nerf gun that harmlessly bounced off everything.
Eyyyy nice to see more Receiver fans!
Still hoping for some update
11:30 If I remember correctly from Sierra Online studio's 1995 FMV PC game, Police Quest: SWAT, an FBI Statistic listed the national average of law enforcement sharpshooter engagements at around 70 yards.
The most up to date and reliable of sources.
In tarkov the length of the gun also matters to some extent, guns can get squashed up against walls and players can run into you and effectively push the gun out of the way
Also Insurgency and Insurgency: Sandstorm
H3VR, being a physics-led simulation, very much has the size of weapons having a significant effect in close quarters. Clearing a house with a G3 vs a MP5 is a very, very different experience! Getting a suppressor is nice, but you often really have to think about how it effects manuverability.
Hitman (the first one) also had this, with being a 3rd person game, it and was even possible to shoot yourself in the jaw with the right (wrong) weapon by pushing up against an obstacle and firing at the same time.
DayZ apparently has this as a feature, but I have not played it.
@@redtanker bullpup
tarkov players when their game hasnt been mentioned for 1 minute.
@@CaptCoe1Does it actually do that. I have never payed attention to it before.
10:05, the best game I've seen concerning weapon length is Ground Branch, instead of the thing you see in a few games of the gun rising when you go close to a surface, you instead pull the gun into your body first until the point where you have to rise it so that you can still keep your barrel down range.
That game also have my favourite options for avoiding flagging, allowing you to raise up or lower your gun with your mouse wheel. Final cool feature (that isn't as annoying as it sounds), the longer you keep your weapon raised (especially aimed) the less stable it becomes (but not to a painful degree), encouraging you to lower your weapon and let your arms rest when outside of combat
I love Ready or Not. One of my most favourite tactical first person
shooter game.
I'm really glad for that slow-mo shot of the AK platform being reloaded, it's quite satisfying and almost beautiful to see the magazine release not only be thumb pressed, but remain so until depressed by having the new one seated into the lower receiver! Such detail
I did the first ten missions less-lethal, I don't blame Jonathan for opting-out. It's a fun challenge in the earlier missions, but you quickly get sick of weapons that are inconsistent and ineffective half the time
It's not exactly Metal Gear Solid with its magical tranquilizer guns.
once I realized ranking lower only affected cosmetic unlocks and not mission unlocks I didn't care, I still used restraint to keep the score as high as reasonable but it was a much more enjoyable experience using lethal rounds
They have two variants of the pepper ball ammunition, a round ball used in traditional hopper fed "non lethal launcher", often a Tippmann 98 Custom of some variety but not limited to that make and model and magazine fed non lethal launcher/paintball pistols and the first strike type used in mag fed paintball markers like the EMF-100 from Planet Eclipse and the FN 303 if I recall. FN had help from Air Gun Designs(AGD) on the pneumatics of the launcher for that one, AGD designed the extra reliable .68 Automag way back in the late 80's and 90's and used it as the base for the system in the FN 303. I have a EMF-100 set up as a scenario marker that is exclusively mag fed now. They look .68 caliber round nose training grenades you would see in a 40mm M203 or M230 grenade launcher but without the rim, they fly far and straight when compared to their round ball style cousins. good enough flight characteristics that you can use modern red dots with FS style rounds with good results.
I can't think of any other fps games where the length of the weapon matters, but doorkickers (or at least DK2) does actually have weapon length as an important mechanic. Red Orchestra also had weapons pressing up against objects, but I can't recall if longer weapons were worse than shorter ones there.
I played the Original DK, It also had weapon length mechanics. DK2 is basically just a re-painted, WD-40'd and generally improved version of the original. Not too many features in DK2 that weren't in the Original.
(Sorry for necro but I saw DK mentioned and had to
Tarkov too.
9:35 One of the very rare instances Jonathan is wrong, there was the obscure G41 prototype, basically the HK33 with a bunch of M16 features like STANAG mags, bolt hold open, dust cover and "foward assist".
Yep, I was surprised by that, because I'm pretty sure they've got one at the museum. Still, I guess it's one of those moments when you realise experts aren't walking encyclopaedia, and they occasionally forget or misremember things, just like we all do.
Unacceptable. Jonathan needs to be fired immediately for forgetting/not knowing about an incredibly obscure and ridiculous firearm.
@@peterclarke7006 A quick check shows that the Royal Armouries collection database does indeed list a single H&K G41. Its origin is given as the Pattern Room collection and its date of manufacture is given as around 1985.
@@derekp2674 Thank you! Absolutely certain I saw it on one of Ian's videos when he visited. Might be a different one though, will have to look it up.
7.62x39 is actually great out of short barrels as the round doesn't lose much muzzle velocity even down to a ten inch barrel. The recoil isn't even that bad if the gun is well tuned.
it's so cool that glock 17 has a daba-dee-daba-die version
Very interesting seeing Dave use the torch on the Less-Lethal Glock as a sight given the real world precedent for doing so. Notably a technique used by the SAS in CQB with their MP5s.
Thank you Johnathan, Keeper of firearms and artillery at the royal armories museum in the UK
I'm just happy someone finally brought back the SWAT series.
9:35 Didn't the HK G41 also have a last round bolt hold open?
„Frag grenade flying around is usually frowned upon“
The M32 sweating profusely in the background
9:34 hk G41 also has bolt hold open
Something I noticed is that in the replay you can see the primers in weapons aren’t pressed in but the cited cases are
The reduction in muzzle velocity isn't as much as you would think with 7.62 x 39 out of a shorter barrel, mostly due to it being a lower pressure round. Many people modding their own guns have found that it's actually a great choice to put a suppressor on as well.
12:45 5 years ago in 2019, Hong Kong Police SDU were seen using M320 without any less-lethal marking during one of its public order operations, the launchers were apparently used for firing CS gas munition. Considering that this unit never used frags and never has one before, the intended purposes of these M320s might just be launching flashbang and CS shells into rooms where the suspects barricaded themselves in.
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Whoopty Dooo Basil....who gives a flying FK
Can I change my order for next week? We've guests coming, so can I get an extra two pints of semi-skimmed, three pints of orange juice and two dozen eggs, please?
Been waiting for this. Awesome.
I really like the tapping the mag against the bottom of your pistol right before you insert it.
Totally what I do, and its very similar to sheathing a sword.
Thank for the video! Love Jonathan!
Anytime I hear: “This Is Johnathan Ferguson…” I know I’m in for a good time.
the fact that I know jonathan is out here playing it in full lethal mode makes me happy lol
10:05 The bolt hold-open is also on the .40S&W version.
DayZ also takes account of the length of the weapon. I once died because I had a full length double barrel shotgun and couldn't shoulder it when a zombie was on me
A lot more games nowadays do simulate barrel length. The first one i can think of that made a big deal out of it would be Sandstorm. But Squad also simulates barrel length
It's fairly common. What's hard to find is actual collision physics.
@@SnakebitSTI Which makes sense considering that there's no real difference (at base value) between actual collision of the weapon with environment and a check if it'd collide with it and then just moving it.
Would sure be fun to get your rifle stuck on a corner because you`re straight at the wall with actual collisions, but it's honestly a lot of extra work for something you can just emulate with a distance check, not to mention that it'd be pointless without having to manually change how you hold the weapon.
And I honestly don't even want to figure out how annoying getting actually stuck with that would be after a while or how often it bugs something out.
"*STOP RESISITING*!!!" the game
I don't recall if you have ever covered it, but there is a French GIGN unit that adopted 12in CZ Bren 2s in 7.62x39 relatively recently, which you might find interesting.
Once again kindly asking for a Valkyria Chronicles video. I just know Jonathan would have a lot to say. Weapon attachments, upgrades, the lances in general. The man would have a field day!
Worth noting that the later games (even VC3, which stars the same forces in the same era as the original game) dramatically lessened how lance-like Lances were, as though even the developers thought their appearance in the first game was *too* on the nose.
been waiting for this one such a fun game really respect the realism lol
you forgot that the HK G41 which was a hk33 refitted to use STANAG magazines also has one.
I almost forgot that I had this question in my head, but here it is: Are there any real guns or weapons in the collections of the Royal Armouries that makes Jonathan feel almost as uneasy as he does when seeing the brain-breaking abominations in some of the games you have already reviewed (to our great pleasure, I admit)?
The closest thing i can think of is the MP5 with the underbarrel grenade launcher just like in Half Life. But yeah, would love to hear from the man himself
they have a video about an mp5 with underbarrel grenade launcher on the royal armouries channel@@faizkroller1996
@@faizkroller1996Thank you, good point. Yes, you are correct, it would be cool to hear it from him.
Do Ghosts of Tabor! They make a concerted effort to make their guns feel true to life, and it works. The Vector in that game is one of the few times where I've felt the horizontal recoil properly
Re the comment in the MP9 section about the length of the gun mattering; it happens in Tarkov as well (b/c of course it does) - to the point where you can barrel stuff your opponent if your weapon is shorter than theirs
Another great video, still holding on to the hope that Jonathan will eventually review the guns from the game "Darkest of Days"!
You should also check the new Taser 7 as well. First time I saw one in a game!
SOLDIER OF FORTUNE! SOLDIER OF FORTUNE! SOLDIER OF FORTUNE!
in Insurgency: Sandstorm you can get a 'collision' with your rifle if its too big ;)
happens a lot when i use the M82 as a breaching shotgun XD
9:33
Johnathan, I think you meant "the only mp5" since H&K also made the G41, and that is also a roller delayed rifle with an attempt at AR-style ergonomics and everything.
The strange thing about lack of minimum distance in games is that a few actually do show an animation of your character no longer pointing their weapon if you're directly next to a wall, but I can't think of any where it's based on barrel length.
On police grenade launchers: "Forty" or "Fourty Mike Mike" is standard US police terminology for launchers (even among general patrol officers), and when departments release video with subtitles or narration they are consistently called things like "40mm less lethal launcher" (or such). I have never seen a 37mm mentioned in badge cam video. I suspect the "1033 Program" resulted in 37mm getting phased out among US police as the military gave them a bunch of free forties.
There's a bit more leeway in arms choice in PDs. A relatively large number of US PDs do allow officers to pick their sidearm from an approved list, and plenty have changed to new ones while allowing existing officers to keep their old one. The so called "patrol carbines" largely entered existence (phasing out gov issued shotguns with buckshot) by departments allowing officers to take keep personally owned long arms in their patrol cars with minimal (or no in the case of Mesa Arizona) restrictions. This could result in an incredible variety (I've heard of M1 Carbines being used because everything else was too scary for the brass) even if the overwhelming majority are Armalite pattern and *all* of them would be semi only. A SWAT officer having such a personally owned carbine and bringing it when called to muster is entirely plausible.
67th week of asking for episode on Bullet Girls Phantasia, 43rd week of asking for Loadout on games (not) keeping track of the round in the chamber(s) between reloads.
the integrally suppressed mcx is named the rattler canebrake (military designation LVAW), and you can get it in 300 blk
As a curvy trigger guard Five seveN IOM owner, I agree, the older Five seveNs look cooler than the MRD.
would love for johnatan to react to the abbominations the guns in warframe are
we used these blue gun(glocks) for training(paint) ammo. basically a 9mm casing with a light charge and a paintbullet.
15:26 that might be an awesome game mode. Call it “defunded” where you can only use bare basic weapons.
i wish i remembered what game it was i played where hugging too close to a wall would have your character hold the gun sideways across his body for long guns and hold it upward for pistols. i believe pistols would actually be slightly quicker "on target", i.e. aligning with the crosshair again than long guns.
From what I can find, Alaskan police do use AK-pattern rifles.
Would love a video discussing why HK makes the design decisions it does (i.e. no bolt open on the roller delayed weapons, unless specifically requested)
Maybe because of reliability concerns. Roller-delayed HKs insist on using of HK-slap even in manuals not just to look cool, but to ensure that bolt will have enough energy to fully go to battery.
Please Jonathan Ferguson, the keeper of Firearms & Artillery at the Royal Armouries museum in the UK, break down the weapons from *METAL GEAR SOLID 3* before the remake comes out.
So many weapons in MGS3 to react and comment on like the Patriot's infinite ammo magazine, the EZ tranq gun, Snake's customized officer M1911A1, Snake whittling the pistol grip to use a knife for CQC, Ocelot's SAA juggling skills, The End's paratrooper tranquilizer Mosin Nagant, the Davey Crockett recoil-less nuclear launcher and Eva's chinese mauser clone.
There are so many more other interesting trivias and weapons in MGS3 so please gamespot and Johnathan make a video for the game.
I think the reasoning for the short barreled AK mentioned early being in 7.62x39 rather then 5.45 is that 5.45 after certain import bans was very difficult and expensive to get in the US. If it still is i don't actually know.
Great explanation
On the weapon length thing, as ever, Tarkov is another good one for taking it into account. It also makes longer heavier weapons slow your movements down, and they are harder to aim down sights for long with as there's a separate arm stamina meter (the latter effect is a bit overdone, but it's interesting).
I'd like to see Jonathan review the guns of Prey (2017), Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare, Call of Duty: Black Ops Campaign, Classic Tomb Raider, The Callisto Protocol and/or Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth 👽🪖🔥💀🚀🐙
I'd love to hear more about the less lethal glock, and how that works
It's what's often called a "simunition" gun. It's not actually intended to be a less-lethal firearm to use operationally, but rather something that you use in training. In the game, you only use it in training at the shoothouse.
We do exercises with them where we can role play different scenarios and shoot each other. The projectile is a little capsule filled with basically coloured detergent, so it's a bit like a paintball but with much higher velocity and firing out of an actual gun.
@@TheBulapThat would only be the Cadet version or however it's called in America. There are two versions of a less lethal Glock 17. One fires rubber bullets and there's the police only version that fires plastic bullets. The police one has just the lower receiver blue. The rubber bullet one is called Glock 17T from traumatic and is a common self defense gun in Europe.
There's also a .43 caliber paintball shooting version of the Glock 17 that's made for self defense.
to go off what Bulap said, it works just like a real gun but the weight and strength of the springs are lightened so it will cycle lighter projectiles with a lighter powder load, at least as far as I understand
Love the talk about the FBI HRT as im currently doing an HRT playthrough in carrer mode where i only use guns the HRT use
I would like to see Jonathan reacting to the guns of Warframe and maybe even archguns, Necramechs and Corpus robots
Fairly sure there is a Warframe video.
@@AGrumpyPanda There are Destiny videos but no Warframe videos
@@under-chonker I must have them confused with another youtuber then, and of course youtube's search is full of shorts and unrelated content so I can't find the video I'm thinking of.
These videos are great!
MP9 always confuses me, since it has no relation to MP7 or MP5. Even though MP5 and MP7 are already very different than eachother
It would be cool to see him go back to tarkov and rate the new recoil and other features
It's really amazing how much history and nuance you can learn about different tactical units and their cultures just by watching two knowledgeable and curious dudes critique video game guns.
4:10 Texas State Troopers I believe are authorized to purchase for duty useage Kalashnikov KP-9 9x19mm AK’s
9:30 actually, i believe the hk g41 has a bolt hold open device, though idk if anyone bought that gun
Do you think if someone broke into his house would the robber just hear
“This is Jonathan keeper of firearms and weaponry at the royal armories muesem.”
I've been asking for 3 years: ENLISTED GAME when?
Nice to know Jonathan enjoys one of my favourite games.
As for the "cumbersomeness factor" of using weapons depending on the type of environment and length of the weapon, the tactical sim "Doorkickers" does this. Although it's not a shooter like Ready or not, you need to be able to use weapons depending on the environment: longer weapons won't bother you on a beach but will severely impact you indoors with tight coridors
Just in time for dinner, thanks gsmespot, jonathan, and royal armoury
I would love a series, or at least a video, of Jonathan commentating on games watching Dave play them.
This dude might have the coolest job in the UK
Needs a part 2 for the AUG and such
the first other game that comes in mind about "weapon length matters" is Tarkov where you first pull the firearms further to your body or start to hold them sideways if too close to a wall.
NAH BRO WHERE ARE MY CONTRACT WARS WEAPONS VIDEO COME ON great video, like always
Jonathan has in fact reacted to another game where the gun length matters, and seen a clip of it in action. In Escape from Tarkov your gun will go into a raised position and not fire if someone gets closer to you than it is long. This can be used as a way to clinch a close in fight against someone who isn't aware of the mechanic.
I wish Jonathan was shown the LeoTec sights since he enjoyed the SuberbNova pun so much
Used the FN 5-7 as my fav pistol in Counter Strike....
For weapon collision with environment DayZ does it as well!
Been watching quite a few of these reviews on weapons.. very interesting. The game looks seriously realistic.
I love my p320 extended as it's 30 rounds. That weight helps a lot with recoil so you can go for punchier rounds to start and finish with lower recoil.
Or just keep on plinking a few hundred, then feel how low recoil self defense ammo are.
I’m actually impressed that they had a Byrna product in a game like this.
Someone else may have said it already, but DayZ is another game where the length of your weapon matters. Weapons have collision with the environment which prevents them from clipping into objects - your character will raise the weapon to avoid clipping.
Pepper gas does hang around in the air a bit, although you can't really see it. Kind of like how cutting an onion. You can't see it, but you know it's there. Just much, much stronger.
In PUBG and EFT long guns can't shoot at the angles that a smaller gun can when close to walls or objects.
Would love to see you guys do the guns of Ground Branch which is another game that has the weapon length system, it also has a stamina system to do with your arms where they get tired from holding your gun out for too long.