In 2019 i've met with a guy on twitch, he was streaming and coding and we talked. His numbers was weird and his chat was talk but something was not right. After a few hours i learned that he owns that times #1 Viewer bot websites and he was currently working on Premium class bots which has AI that catches what streamer says and texts messages about the whatever streamer talks. Lets say there is two teams played football that day and streamer said "chelsea rocked the stadium tonight" and bots were able to text something about the match.
What Devin didn't want to specifically mention at the end. Is twitch using leverage from bots to get advertising deals. Since twitch is aware of what's happening, using those numbers to negotiate is illegal
When I streamed on front page of Twitch I was told by Twitch staff to take advantage of the bounties as I could make a decent amount of money from them. Front page views are similar to embedding views in websites. The platform is a con imo. Amazon must feel pretty silly buying it out.
You actually don't need a verified email to make a Twitch account. This is a common misconception. Try it, you can make an account, put in a fake email, then when it prompts you to input the verification code, you can click the button on the bottom left that says not now or something like that. You can't chat in streams that require email verification but you still have the account.
When Naraka Bladepoint first came out. I streamed and at one point I got a total of 152 viewers. I didn't see a raid or host notification. No one was saying anything in chat. I was like, what's going on? This explains a lot. Thank you for making this video.
@@DevinRAR your definition of view botting is clearly not of the norm. you don't need "bots" for it to count as "view botting". if you were listening to devin in the video he very clearly points out that view botting is to my understanding an artificial fake viewer. hence why he makes a clear distinction of calling it "legal view botting" . next time watch the video first
The end of this video was super fascinating... I've always thought about the fact that ads reach x number of people as far as the advertisers are told, but in reality, that number has to be smaller thanks to phantom viewers regardless of the media. Glad you revisited this topic because like you said, it is really interesting.
This happens with game like Terraria because ppl check the wiki all the time and they have the highest stream embed on their page. Not to call out any Terraria streamers or anything Keepo It's legal
Honestly, i dont see a problem with embedding your video and “legal viewbotting”. Mainly because it is also exposure for twitch as well because if someone wasn’t aware of twitch existing they then find the website. But then it also helps you! Mainly see this as a benefit to have your stream up on game fan/help pages like wowhead or final fantasy wiki for example. Embedding is something I’ve known about for a long time that i honestly haven’t taken advantage of so I definitely need to implement this, Thanks!
I was having fun getting confirmed in my suspicion of Fextralife and the info around it. But now I'm just left sweating away at what might potentially be a huge legal issue for Twitch. Thanks, Devin. I can always count on you, for all the details I never knew were out there.
I don't think they are refusing. they just can't do it. if you think about it google invested decades of research and insane amounts of money to get their algorithm where they are. twitch (in contrast to google) has finite amounts of money because amazon decides how much they can spend.
@@TheNerd the interesting thing is though while its harder to be discovered as a streamer on twitch its easier for the viewer to find what they want. Ideally youtube needs a similar directory for streaming to promote streams at the start until the viewer has developed a strong enough preference for the algorithm to function properly
My update on this. I made an embed on Tumblr and was able to pull 200k viewers from Tumblr as they were looking at my blog on there and other people could also post on there. I didn't realize that everyone on the public Tumblr blog was a viewer on Twitch!
Very informative video and yes I made it to the end :D I was accused for view botting even though i had 55 viewers and not too many people chatting, but what they did not consider is that I Collab and share autohosts with MANY different streamers that are small like myself. But on a Larger scale like you are talking about seems Extremely unlikely for all those 15,000+ viewer streamers to get auto hosted by individuals 15,000 times. When a person joins a "Team or Org" on twitch that website is also embed with that persons stream as well.
Ive been accused in the same way when my friend streamers have raided me and then later like an hour not many people chatting and people say im viewbotting haha people are attributing viewers to that they actually have to chat its hella toxic
Thank you for always doing your best to help not only the people around but everyone. More videos like these keep me coming back not just for twitch but for anything that has to do with marketing your the best
Literally got a viewbot ad seconds after you mentioned we might get one of those ads on this video. Love your content, Devin! Edit to say I received two of those ads on this video.
@Devin Nash I think you forgot one major thing that easy can make up for missing users, which is Hosting, think its important to remember that Hosting won't move viewers over in the streamers chat, they will remain in the channel they were watching and be in that chat, but will still count as a viewer on the hosted stream. So it's even harder to see if someone is cheating the system.
Hi Devin! Interesting video! However, there was one point made at the end that is not accurate regarding ads on embedded channels that I wanted to let you know about. When Twitch is being shown via an embed on a website (i.e. with the 20k viewers with Fextralife), ads are not actually played over these instances. As such, Twitch does not make any ad revenue from embedded channels. Instead, in place there is a blank purple screen that appears every ~10 minutes or so and lasts for around 30 seconds that asks the viewer to view directly on Twitch instead. Of course this doesn't make much difference for a streamer such as Fextralife, but I believe it does guarantee that advertisers are not getting a bad deal when they pay for ads on Twitch
RUclips does not count an autoplay embed as a view for a video or stream. You would think Twitch would've fixed this ages ago, but I guess this is Twitch's way of inflating numbers to look like a bigger platform. Hopefully advertisers see this video and force Twitch to make changes.
Thank you for verifying the conclusion I came to after being online at twitch for a couple of months. There are channels on twitch like Makerdeck that consistently have 60-100 viewers and only one or two people chatting.
Hey Devin, great video mate and thanks for the info, really interesting!! I have one request/bit of feedback - that you maybe try to look into the camera more when you're talking to us? I really noticed it to near the end of the video you seemed to be talking to the screen / OBS and not to the camera. Cheers mate keep up the good work.
Those fextralife people are kinda scummy. I'm not sure how many wiki pages they took over but they're auto embedded on more than just their own website. They're embedded in every dark souls wiki page and probably a ton of other games as well.
This is one of the few topics I never really dug into, since I only tend to assist folks with legit ways to overcome the obstacles they are running into. It was pretty awesome to have it broken down so clearly so that I now at least have an understanding of what's going on and how it works. Thanks again for the efficient coverage of an often avoided industry issue!
Some of this shit has been so obvious, thanks for shedding light on it. I've reached 32 concurrent viewers from scratch, and I guess if this is "legal" it's fair game, it just hurts, lol.
Funny you make a vid on this guy in particular. I watched the one you made about viewbotting a while ago and figured it out lol. This is very cool to see how shit works in the backend, exactly why I keep watching your vids.
I checked out that fextralife channel on the day of launch. It was way more dead, with 100k views. Not even the people spamming !drops yet. Just to prove devins point.
Ok now that makes perfect sense how I'd watch the Rocket League channel and see a good segment of viewers with odd names and numbers that look like they were auto-generated, plus for a while there'd be a lot of "users" asking for drops as if it were a command. I always assumed they were just little kids who didn't know better lmao, well maybe a few were, especially if they see bots doing it, they might think they have to do that too.
Devin this is why I love your videos. All the stuff you talk about is super interesting and this was incredibly shocking honestly how easy it is to do but thankfully we can figure out how to tell the difference now.
back when the game aimgods came out I streamed it and they whitelisted my twitch account for drops went from a 3 viewer andy to a 2k viewer andy was a fun experience but very depressing afterwords
@@aldo_3d been streaming for 5 years now just having that opportunity was great gave it my all did like 100+hours of streaming that week it popped off but it subsided instantly after.the game died which was sad idk tho when I mean depressing I just mean I hope that wasn’t my peak with all the time I have put in.
But wait, there's more! lol Ive called Fex out a few times when they were streaming ESO with a zillion viewers yet no one was talking in chat lol. Thanks, now I understand why :P
Another super interesting topic, Devin. I'm interested in what tools the advertising industry is going to put together to tackle this issue, because you know the big boys don't like paying for nothing. Could be an interesting arms race! Also, #LongTermWatcherGang checking in
forgot to give my Cabbage Brain Take, but I'm only at 2:20 so here goes. I say it's like chess, which is a game of perfect information. Both sides have access to all the same information. While organic viewers are the most important, sometimes viewbots try to get away with seeming organic. The streamer should treat the stream as if everyone talking is organic until proven otherwise, like a game of chess where you know what your enemy will do once you make a move. I think that could potentially harm a streamer who has false feedback about their content. The goal should be to get people to provide constructive feedback(either on purpose or just by judging their reactions over time) so that you can be a better content creator.
no, streamers have said that if u watch with no sound 0% sound u don't count to views that get counted in ads. So I wonder where they get that thought from to say & tell viewers to keep sound at 1% or more. Lots of streamers say to keep sound at 1% & ads that get auto mute set to 0% can't be 1% sound. So are all the streamers that ask for 1% wrong?
@Devin Nash Twitch could run an algorithm and post on the streamers dashboard something like "based on your last 7 days streaming your percentage of logged out viewers is 30% - to qualify for running ads and earning revenue the percentage of logged out viewers needs to be 7% minimum" This would solve a lot of problems. It incentivises the streamer to play fair. It hurts their revenue if they don't, Twitch doesn't need to make accusations, if the streamer chooses to continue botting or embedding (neither of which "viewers" sub or cheer) then they get zero ad revenue and take the hit while they "kingmaker" their channel, well it would actually cost the streamer to game the system having to pay for the "services" to get the viewer numbers which is going to discourage a hell of a lot of people from doing it. It also provides assurances to the advertisers that their ads are only being shown on streams with 93%+ logged in viewers. Dump it all on the streamer just like with the ability to only allow verified accounts to chat. Embedding would cease to be an issue overnight and it builds trust and confidence with advertisers who basically are the only ones keeping the platform going.
Imagine my surprise when I take a look at one of the wiki pages I have open for a game and see that Fextralife has been playing in that tab for the better part of a day. Good for them, can't blame the hustle.
You’ve helped me soooo much. Over 25k on TikTok, road to 1000 on RUclips. Your videos have helped me immensely. One day when I get big I will always shout your videos out 💜💜
i don't see why people need to chat while watching a streamer. sure the odds of all of them just watching is low, but still. not a very good indicator.
It's not that people need to it's just that people generally do so there's a level of chat expected as viewers increase that is fairly consistent across the platform.
So about watching all the way to 20 mins in like you mention in a bunch of your videos, do you get credit for 20 minutes if I watch at 1.5x speed? I always wondered that.
Why not just do both at the same time - and throw facebook and whatever else in there while you're at it. No sense in abandoning one platform over another when you can easily utilize them all unless you have some sort of exclusivity deal (which you should avoid like the plague unless we're talking millions).
@@jmarino715 as an affiliate twitch locks you into exclusively. My audience is mainly on RUclips and I wasn't very successful in trying to bring them over to twitch.
@@jmarino715 I've been an affiliate since 2016. But since I stream inconsistently it didn't bother me. But now that I'm trying to be more active with it, streaming here on RUclips were I already have an audience just makes more sence.
If it's just a pixel being embedded, I don't imagine they would also do the sound for that stream So it wouldn't be dissimilar to muting the tab instead of the player
Can't believe there wasn't even a single mention of IRC in this video. That's basically Twitch's backend. And it's way easier to create IRC viewbots than it is to find a high-traffic website willing to embed your stream
yeah, but IRC users are not viewers. they just get listed in the chat but they are not counted as a viewer. it's popular to do this as well but I mean who really checks the user's list on a stream with > 50 viewers.
@@TheNerd while that may be true in it's simplest form (just having IRC bots connect to the chat) once you have them in there with each on its own IP address, it's a simple matter of having them send requests to Twitch's website to have them count as a viewer. It's really not that hard to figure out - especially if you have experience as a software engineer.
Rather than a dictionary, a viewbot could just reference other live channels using an irc bot. It can simply get the messages sent in other live streams and have their bots say the same exact thing.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Amazon doesn’t account for this kind of legal view botting advertisers are likely given 20-30% more impressions than competitors to account for this loss
In 2019 i've met with a guy on twitch, he was streaming and coding and we talked. His numbers was weird and his chat was talk but something was not right. After a few hours i learned that he owns that times #1 Viewer bot websites and he was currently working on Premium class bots which has AI that catches what streamer says and texts messages about the whatever streamer talks. Lets say there is two teams played football that day and streamer said "chelsea rocked the stadium tonight" and bots were able to text something about the match.
shut up and take my money
So what was his site…..?👀👀..
Aware
update: the dude that coded that is probably a billionaire now
that's scary...
What Devin didn't want to specifically mention at the end. Is twitch using leverage from bots to get advertising deals. Since twitch is aware of what's happening, using those numbers to negotiate is illegal
When I streamed on front page of Twitch I was told by Twitch staff to take advantage of the bounties as I could make a decent amount of money from them. Front page views are similar to embedding views in websites. The platform is a con imo. Amazon must feel pretty silly buying it out.
@@FragManSaul Honestly It just feels up their alley, btw how does bounties work ?
@@tribopower play a game for a certain amount of hrs i remember mizkeif had his leak during a stream showing a 45k deal for 8 hrs streamed
@@Birdie_1991 I don't know for him, but that's a pretty good deal
@@FragManSaul It was probably Amazons idea to begin with.
Sees title... Hmm I think I saw this a couple of years ago
You actually don't need a verified email to make a Twitch account. This is a common misconception. Try it, you can make an account, put in a fake email, then when it prompts you to input the verification code, you can click the button on the bottom left that says not now or something like that.
You can't chat in streams that require email verification but you still have the account.
Fextralife is usually a 1k-2k stream, for those who've never seen the stream before.
100% shroud and fextralife are two of the most BORING stream around but they get 60k plus viewers... sure...
@@demons_gate shroud is a pro fps player tho and he always had a big following from his early days...thats completely different to fextralife
@@demons_gate Shroud is top streamer you idiot doesn't matter if his content boring to you, he has massive followers
@@alexc8253 view bots his streams are boring asf. Only good thing to see is his aim
I still remember Fextralife doing the 24/7 Valorant streams with drops enabled, but they were mostly restreaming VoDs
When Naraka Bladepoint first came out. I streamed and at one point I got a total of 152 viewers. I didn't see a raid or host notification. No one was saying anything in chat. I was like, what's going on? This explains a lot. Thank you for making this video.
I literally got a viewbot ad after devin said there’s viewbot ads and after the as ended he was laughing.
I made It to the part of the video where devin tells us to comment to feel good about ourselves but is actually a ploy to help him in the algorithm :)
Lol
I also came here to applaud his use of social manipulation in a video about social manipulation 😂
I always stick around for the "secrets" ;)
I knew this was gonna be about fextralife. Goddamn embeds lmao
The funny thing is that if you claim that he's view botting he will ban you lol
@@delamain2077 because he’s not view botting.
@@DevinRAR legal view botting is still view botting
@@delamain2077 there’s no bots involved, so how can it be called view BOTTING? You are incapable of thinking.
@@DevinRAR your definition of view botting is clearly not of the norm. you don't need "bots" for it to count as "view botting". if you were listening to devin in the video he very clearly points out that view botting is to my understanding an artificial fake viewer. hence why he makes a clear distinction of calling it "legal view botting" . next time watch the video first
I am glad to see Paul Simon found success after his music career.
holy shit thank you I couldn't figure out who he reminded me of
Why you gotta do him like that lol
Mixed with young Jon Favreau
I love when Devin starts the video with "I'm really excited about this topic"
He’s been doing that a lot lately lol
Its a psychological tactic to keep you interested. His excitement whether real or not makes u excited. I mean he works in advertising.
Devin, do you have a website? If so how much for a pixel embed? Asking for a friend for a completely unrelated reason.
And how much if I wanted 20 pixels embedded?
fyi if u embed with a single pixel twitch will take ur channel down, just sayin ;)
I can get you your pixel embeds but it’ll cost some money hahah
How much if i want the full website being my livestream and my socials?😂
@@DerGiftCube ooooooo that's gonna cost ya bub.
Devin really an agent of chaos with this video
The end of this video was super fascinating... I've always thought about the fact that ads reach x number of people as far as the advertisers are told, but in reality, that number has to be smaller thanks to phantom viewers regardless of the media. Glad you revisited this topic because like you said, it is really interesting.
The truly outrageous thing is that Fextralife isn't even a good wiki for most games. :D
i remember using it a lot for dark souls games
Or a good stream for that matter.
This happens with game like Terraria because ppl check the wiki all the time and they have the highest stream embed on their page. Not to call out any Terraria streamers or anything Keepo
It's legal
I’ve never even heard of it until seeing them in the New World directory 😅
It like the Devin nash lore is all coming together he has so many references to his other videos.
Fextralife:
"How do we get more viewers on our Twitch channel?"
*looks at their own website*
Insert 'it's free real estate' meme here
cant blame them, honestly surprised more ogs and companies arent doing it.
@@CaiRobinson I can't blame them either but they also ban people if they claim that they're view botting
Honestly, i dont see a problem with embedding your video and “legal viewbotting”. Mainly because it is also exposure for twitch as well because if someone wasn’t aware of twitch existing they then find the website. But then it also helps you! Mainly see this as a benefit to have your stream up on game fan/help pages like wowhead or final fantasy wiki for example. Embedding is something I’ve known about for a long time that i honestly haven’t taken advantage of so I definitely need to implement this, Thanks!
I think there is a big difference between a 1 pixel embed and the actual stream embeded.
@@VentusOfficiall you’re absolutely correct! I wouldnt want a 1 pixel embed lol i would want the whole stream viewable!
Holy cow, I'm finding some channels with 90%+ viewbot. I feel like my third eye has opened.
Devin and "I'm very excited about this one" name a more iconic duo.
keep up the great work dude!
I was having fun getting confirmed in my suspicion of Fextralife and the info around it.
But now I'm just left sweating away at what might potentially be a huge legal issue for Twitch.
Thanks, Devin. I can always count on you, for all the details I never knew were out there.
Hey Devin, thank you for the videos. Not only are they enjoyable as a streamer or not, but you seem a lot happier and freer doing it.
Twitch honestly created as they've basically refused to give people more option to be duscoverd as a content creator
I don't think they are refusing. they just can't do it. if you think about it google invested decades of research and insane amounts of money to get their algorithm where they are. twitch (in contrast to google) has finite amounts of money because amazon decides how much they can spend.
@@TheNerd the interesting thing is though while its harder to be discovered as a streamer on twitch its easier for the viewer to find what they want.
Ideally youtube needs a similar directory for streaming to promote streams at the start until the viewer has developed a strong enough preference for the algorithm to function properly
My update on this. I made an embed on Tumblr and was able to pull 200k viewers from Tumblr as they were looking at my blog on there and other people could also post on there. I didn't realize that everyone on the public Tumblr blog was a viewer on Twitch!
Fantastic dive into this topic. You’re great at these 100-level primers. Always count me in the “full video watched” club. Cheers, man
Very informative video and yes I made it to the end :D I was accused for view botting even though i had 55 viewers and not too many people chatting, but what they did not consider is that I Collab and share autohosts with MANY different streamers that are small like myself. But on a Larger scale like you are talking about seems Extremely unlikely for all those 15,000+ viewer streamers to get auto hosted by individuals 15,000 times. When a person joins a "Team or Org" on twitch that website is also embed with that persons stream as well.
Ive been accused in the same way when my friend streamers have raided me and then later like an hour not many people chatting and people say im viewbotting haha people are attributing viewers to that they actually have to chat its hella toxic
it truly sucks for the people who work for their views
work smarter not harder i guess
Thank you for always doing your best to help not only the people around but everyone. More videos like these keep me coming back not just for twitch but for anything that has to do with marketing your the best
Literally got a viewbot ad seconds after you mentioned we might get one of those ads on this video. Love your content, Devin!
Edit to say I received two of those ads on this video.
@Devin Nash I think you forgot one major thing that easy can make up for missing users, which is Hosting, think its important to remember that Hosting won't move viewers over in the streamers chat, they will remain in the channel they were watching and be in that chat, but will still count as a viewer on the hosted stream. So it's even harder to see if someone is cheating the system.
Hi Devin! Interesting video! However, there was one point made at the end that is not accurate regarding ads on embedded channels that I wanted to let you know about.
When Twitch is being shown via an embed on a website (i.e. with the 20k viewers with Fextralife), ads are not actually played over these instances. As such, Twitch does not make any ad revenue from embedded channels. Instead, in place there is a blank purple screen that appears every ~10 minutes or so and lasts for around 30 seconds that asks the viewer to view directly on Twitch instead.
Of course this doesn't make much difference for a streamer such as Fextralife, but I believe it does guarantee that advertisers are not getting a bad deal when they pay for ads on Twitch
They probably worked out a deal with or told twitch about the embedded stuff so thats their answer which i would say is good
RUclips does not count an autoplay embed as a view for a video or stream.
You would think Twitch would've fixed this ages ago, but I guess this is Twitch's way of inflating numbers to look like a bigger platform.
Hopefully advertisers see this video and force Twitch to make changes.
Coming down to if you cant beat them join em haha jk 🤣
its the only way to actually get discovered sometimes twitch has a terrible discovery system plus they still aren't really bots
20 minutes in and it feels so nice...
Also...26:17 - That laugh of admission got me good. lol
Thank you for verifying the conclusion I came to after being online at twitch for a couple of months. There are channels on twitch like Makerdeck that consistently have 60-100 viewers and only one or two people chatting.
Hey Devin, great video mate and thanks for the info, really interesting!! I have one request/bit of feedback - that you maybe try to look into the camera more when you're talking to us? I really noticed it to near the end of the video you seemed to be talking to the screen / OBS and not to the camera.
Cheers mate keep up the good work.
Those fextralife people are kinda scummy. I'm not sure how many wiki pages they took over but they're auto embedded on more than just their own website. They're embedded in every dark souls wiki page and probably a ton of other games as well.
Effective marketing lol 😂
This is one of the few topics I never really dug into, since I only tend to assist folks with legit ways to overcome the obstacles they are running into. It was pretty awesome to have it broken down so clearly so that I now at least have an understanding of what's going on and how it works. Thanks again for the efficient coverage of an often avoided industry issue!
Some of this shit has been so obvious, thanks for shedding light on it. I've reached 32 concurrent viewers from scratch, and I guess if this is "legal" it's fair game, it just hurts, lol.
At 8:00 LITERALLY GOT AN AD after you said funny enough there is twitch viewbot ads on the video... Lmao
20 minute club here! Thanks for all the hard work you're putting in buddy!
Funny you make a vid on this guy in particular. I watched the one you made about viewbotting a while ago and figured it out lol. This is very cool to see how shit works in the backend, exactly why I keep watching your vids.
100% Watch Time Gang! 100% Value! Good job, Devin!
Not surprised a VAST majority of the bigger streamers on twitch are botting or having twitch fluff their numbers...
I checked out that fextralife channel on the day of launch. It was way more dead, with 100k views. Not even the people spamming !drops yet. Just to prove devins point.
Ok now that makes perfect sense how I'd watch the Rocket League channel and see a good segment of viewers with odd names and numbers that look like they were auto-generated, plus for a while there'd be a lot of "users" asking for drops as if it were a command. I always assumed they were just little kids who didn't know better lmao, well maybe a few were, especially if they see bots doing it, they might think they have to do that too.
Devin this is why I love your videos. All the stuff you talk about is super interesting and this was incredibly shocking honestly how easy it is to do but thankfully we can figure out how to tell the difference now.
back when the game aimgods came out I streamed it and they whitelisted my twitch account for drops went from a 3 viewer andy to a 2k viewer andy was a fun experience but very depressing afterwords
Why depressing?
@@aldo_3d been streaming for 5 years now just having that opportunity was great gave it my all did like 100+hours of streaming that week it popped off but it subsided instantly after.the game died which was sad idk tho when I mean depressing I just mean I hope that wasn’t my peak with all the time I have put in.
Devin I always watch your videos to the end you make amazing content. Keep up the great work! :)
Super interesting and informative! Even two years later 😊
Thank you something to listen on my drive to work
Be safe man
But wait, there's more! lol Ive called Fex out a few times when they were streaming ESO with a zillion viewers yet no one was talking in chat lol. Thanks, now I understand why :P
20-minute check-in ...excited for the secret-section. Thanks Devin
14:19 Devin: look at chat
Esphans Chat: Bussy!
this is so nice i love learning all this insider information i feal like a hacker man in the code every time i watch a video
Hello from the Secret Section! :) Thank you for the videos, Devin!
Oh there’s a remake! *grabs popcorn*
Love the new non-stream format, brother!
Another super interesting topic, Devin. I'm interested in what tools the advertising industry is going to put together to tackle this issue, because you know the big boys don't like paying for nothing. Could be an interesting arms race!
Also, #LongTermWatcherGang checking in
thank u, always spreading knowledge in the most simple yet sophisticated way
I made it to the secret! Thanks Devin! Keep up the good work.
Worst part is most people who use the wiki's where this embed plays on, usually have 5-10+ tabs open at a time..
all twitch needs to do is restrict the emails ppl can use
21:55 Made it. On another note, awesome to see projekt Melody on the front page xD
May i ask you to please hurry on the twitch leak video? I know it's coming and I cant wait.
Thanks for sharing, didn't know this was as big and impactful as it is. I made it thru the 20 minute milestone!!!
Wow after this video my stream went from 4 viewers to 4,000 thanks Devin!
forgot to give my Cabbage Brain Take, but I'm only at 2:20 so here goes. I say it's like chess, which is a game of perfect information. Both sides have access to all the same information. While organic viewers are the most important, sometimes viewbots try to get away with seeming organic. The streamer should treat the stream as if everyone talking is organic until proven otherwise, like a game of chess where you know what your enemy will do once you make a move. I think that could potentially harm a streamer who has false feedback about their content. The goal should be to get people to provide constructive feedback(either on purpose or just by judging their reactions over time) so that you can be a better content creator.
your videos is good help on understanding what is happening in this scene < watching them all > keep the good work up
no, streamers have said that if u watch with no sound 0% sound u don't count to views that get counted in ads. So I wonder where they get that thought from to say & tell viewers to keep sound at 1% or more. Lots of streamers say to keep sound at 1% & ads that get auto mute set to 0% can't be 1% sound. So are all the streamers that ask for 1% wrong?
I was thinking the same...
amazing stuff as always, I love how excited you are by this stuff, really keeps me interested
Passing part of a 24hr shift by watching some Devin. Always a good watch, especially for the goodies at the end!
Seriously one of the best videos I’ve ever seen, so much information so clearly explained and entertaining to watch, love the work keep it up!
I loved the secret section viewer bonus plus Devin shows his gamer nerdiness by citing MMOs for the definition of instancing
@Devin Nash
Twitch could run an algorithm and post on the streamers dashboard something like "based on your last 7 days streaming your percentage of logged out viewers is 30% - to qualify for running ads and earning revenue the percentage of logged out viewers needs to be 7% minimum" This would solve a lot of problems. It incentivises the streamer to play fair. It hurts their revenue if they don't, Twitch doesn't need to make accusations, if the streamer chooses to continue botting or embedding (neither of which "viewers" sub or cheer) then they get zero ad revenue and take the hit while they "kingmaker" their channel, well it would actually cost the streamer to game the system having to pay for the "services" to get the viewer numbers which is going to discourage a hell of a lot of people from doing it. It also provides assurances to the advertisers that their ads are only being shown on streams with 93%+ logged in viewers. Dump it all on the streamer just like with the ability to only allow verified accounts to chat. Embedding would cease to be an issue overnight and it builds trust and confidence with advertisers who basically are the only ones keeping the platform going.
Thanks for this video bro I watched till the end still watching lol
Imagine my surprise when I take a look at one of the wiki pages I have open for a game and see that Fextralife has been playing in that tab for the better part of a day.
Good for them, can't blame the hustle.
You’ve helped me soooo much. Over 25k on TikTok, road to 1000 on RUclips. Your videos have helped me immensely. One day when I get big I will always shout your videos out 💜💜
I'm surprised embeds count towards the kingmaker system at all
always to the end, love your content. Keep it coming my dood.
Got too excited that you didn't even announce the notepad LOL
i don't see why people need to chat while watching a streamer. sure the odds of all of them just watching is low, but still. not a very good indicator.
It's not that people need to it's just that people generally do so there's a level of chat expected as viewers increase that is fairly consistent across the platform.
So about watching all the way to 20 mins in like you mention in a bunch of your videos, do you get credit for 20 minutes if I watch at 1.5x speed? I always wondered that.
Great video as always Devin!
"secret section" lolol. Appreciate you my dude!
"but wait theres more" hell ye keep talking Devin.
Ever video like this make me glad I'm moving my streams to youtube
Why not just do both at the same time - and throw facebook and whatever else in there while you're at it. No sense in abandoning one platform over another when you can easily utilize them all unless you have some sort of exclusivity deal (which you should avoid like the plague unless we're talking millions).
@@jmarino715 as an affiliate twitch locks you into exclusively. My audience is mainly on RUclips and I wasn't very successful in trying to bring them over to twitch.
@@EvilLaughGaming That's why you should skip being an affiliate. It literally does nothing for you. Devin has another video about this.
@@jmarino715 I've been an affiliate since 2016. But since I stream inconsistently it didn't bother me. But now that I'm trying to be more active with it, streaming here on RUclips were I already have an audience just makes more sence.
@@EvilLaughGaming Yup - you'll definitely do better on RUclips. Facebook is also a great platform for discovery - believe it or not.
#21minuteGang lets goooo -- Devin rollin' in hot with the videos lately
Definitely watched this whole video! Thanks for the information dudeee 😝
I thought for a view to count, the sound could not be muted. How do embeds get around this?
My understanding is that with embed audio doesnt need to be played wowhead does it all the time for streamers
If it's just a pixel being embedded, I don't imagine they would also do the sound for that stream
So it wouldn't be dissimilar to muting the tab instead of the player
Can't believe there wasn't even a single mention of IRC in this video. That's basically Twitch's backend. And it's way easier to create IRC viewbots than it is to find a high-traffic website willing to embed your stream
Is it the same as what i mean in my other commment on here.
yeah, but IRC users are not viewers. they just get listed in the chat but they are not counted as a viewer. it's popular to do this as well but I mean who really checks the user's list on a stream with > 50 viewers.
@@TheNerd while that may be true in it's simplest form (just having IRC bots connect to the chat) once you have them in there with each on its own IP address, it's a simple matter of having them send requests to Twitch's website to have them count as a viewer. It's really not that hard to figure out - especially if you have experience as a software engineer.
What are the working viewbots right now?
These videos are brilliant. Thank you for this knowledge Devin!
Rather than a dictionary, a viewbot could just reference other live channels using an irc bot. It can simply get the messages sent in other live streams and have their bots say the same exact thing.
The secret section of this video blew my mind. I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier lol.
tbh tho i was in that dudes stream lurking for like 9 hours just trying to get drops
Always here for the secret moment. Love it Devin!
Made it to the Secret Section. Love your videos Devin, thanks for everything you do as far as researching and telling us how it is!
Another amazing video!! You know we always make it to the end ^-^
I wouldn’t be surprised if Amazon doesn’t account for this kind of legal view botting advertisers are likely given 20-30% more impressions than competitors to account for this loss