when he says "but first of all" and you expect a sponsored Ad, but then you remember it is a Devin Nash video and it's nothing but pure, hot information
I streamed 150-200 hours a month on Twitch for the better part of 3 years and made around $800 total. I made less than $0.25 an hour. I started focusing on RUclips and the last 3 months I made over $800 each month with this month projecting to be over $1k. I spent a fraction of the time to make exponentially more. Streaming on Twitch is a waste of time for 99.99% of people but seeing the earnings leak will create hope for many that it’s possible.
I can nothing but agree on this. However, how i see it, is marketing - Which is such a powerfull and important tool - Which again many (Even myself) Have no idea how to do right. Diveristy is really important - But the amount of people that think diversity will work without marketing is insane. Firstly, You need an audience - Once you got an audience the marketing also becomes way more easier as your followers will share your content around if its good enough. Then, you have "how do you get an audience"? Well, you get it through marketing. That's because youtube does not pay you, or give you anything, unless you get into the algorithm, which means - Someone has to like or interact with your video. This means, you need engagement..... And if you have no engagement when you start off - Marketing is #1 and the most important tool you can utelize imo.
Thing is, when a soldier who has HUGE risk of dying, or a cop or a FFighter make 500x less money than a streamer or an influncer, you know that this world is just absolutely filled with simpletons and idiots who value nothing but h their selfish fun, while others around the world die, this world is hell, and it sucks to see my veteran friend who lost his friends and his back shattered from a bomb barely scrap enough to live while people stand in line to pay millions for a laugh… fuck this world.
Linus had the best take on it, he said that this doesn't show us how much streamers make, rather, it gives us a better idea as to how much money TWITCH makes.
Asmond had a great take on the "leak" on how much some twitch streamers make and it was that these people are just shocked that someone they felt like they parasocially related with they suddenly find out is no where close to the income bracket they are in. This makes them feel suddenly disassociated with this streamer and they are lashing out in various ways. Also I say "leak" on their income because it had been discussed many times before by various people, sometimes the streamer themselves. The fans that are so shocked by how much make just never cared to even google it for 10 seconds. The leak of other various personal info, hashed passwords, etc is definitely a leak of info.
"The fans that are so shocked by how much make just never cared to even google it for 10 seconds." In the case of adults with mental health issues It's not that they didn't care...it's that they subconsciously repressed/avoided that kind of thing because it really shines a light on how unhealthy their actions are. In the case of children the reason they didn't get it is obvious.
Another excellent breakdown, it's crazy that people can't see the parallels between streaming and things like acting, professional sports and social media influencers. Popularity makes money
@@DIVAD291 no one who is saying this says that top actors should stop being paid as much as they're being paid. If they were then their argument would be invalid by default.
@@mikemikel1629 "no one who is saying this says that top actors should stop being paid as much as they're being paid." Do you mean that they don't say it in the same sentence??? Who cares??? that's a completely unrealistic expectation to have. "If they were then their argument would be invalid by default." I think you got it backwards??? You could argue that believing actors deserve what they get would invalidate someones belief that streamers don't. But thinking actors don't is coherent with believing that streamers don't.
@@DIVAD291 It may be coherent but it also points out the flaws with believing that streamers shouldn't be paid as much as they do. An actor who is a highly skilled professional should be paid for the work that they do. Production company don't have to choose to higher the actors that cost millions per role. If anything it goes against their bottom line to waste money if an actor isn't necessary. Those millions which would be going into their pockets are now going to somebody else's wallets when they could have just hired an amateur. Obviously big block buster hits don't do this for a reason. That being that professional actors have skills that an amateur just doesn't have. Do you think thet get paid that much because people just want to give away the money that they could have had instead?
@@mikemikel1629 People who disagree with how much actors are paid are not literally saying that they disagree that that's the market value for an actor. People disagree that actors should be paid their market value.
(Disclaimer Im not targeting anyone and I also dont think that of every popular streamer) What think is that some of them doesnt really "deserve" that salary, because a lot of the time they dont do anything special other than play a specific game. 1) The fallacious argument of "but they interact with their audience" really? really? have you taken a few minute to look at any popular streamer chats? there basically most of the time no substance, full of spam and emotes, and 10 msg a second. 2) "But they provide entertainment" ok and? that just a very weak argument, when I have friends over and that I "entertain" them, they dont give me 10$ a month, why do you put a random unknow person for that? 3) I dont consider that they provide sufficient value. Just playing a game and doing random commentary is not that "hard" or special. Its mostly purely luck based and with no barrier to entry (basically everyone can try and do it, not specifically succeed but still) 4) Some profit from affiliate to be paid even more while still providing nothing much, why would you receive a 10% of the sale if I buy from that link exactly? why? I never understood AM anyway 5) No matter how you put it, I just dont get the idea behind someone donating sometimes 50$+ to those people. 6) why would you want to be paid a 50k salary for basically doing nothing special? that must be quite interesting to understand the idea behind it, or see how well you can sleep at night to profit from basically "loneliness" and "fake interaction"
never understood why people are mad that streamers are making money. the audience are the ones paying them. if you're mad how about you stop subbing and donating silly messages?
Yupp. It's the same with people getting mad at NFL salaries. "ThEy JuSt PlAy A gAmE" well the NFL is worth billions. Don't like how much they make, stop watching. Stop buying merchandise. Oh... you won't? Then stfu.
I think being mad is just being nosy lol I get that alot of people don't really understand it. I also find it crazy how much some streamers make banks doing the thing that they are doing. I know some streamers make quality contents that deserve it but honestly I can't help but to think that alot of them just profit off of lonely people.
I mean when people pirate movies and music because they can’t be bothered spending 10-20 bucks but throw away 100’s on super chats that get ignored why wouldn’t you be mad about that? That is like a sick joke.
Pretty sure reaching >1k-10k+ subscribers is the hard part. At some point it's a chainreaction and you can start paying a team of editors, moderators and managers to take away a chunk of your work. Your viewerbase will do the advertising for you by worth of mouth and other streamers hosting you etc. Your name becomes a brand and starts working for itself. Pretty sure Asmongold has plenty of days he rolls out of bed and does a 6hour low-energy stream, no production, no script, just being himself. And he still earns an insane amount of money. While as a doctor you're expected to perform at a certain level every day. The amount of energy and time some of the top streamers put into their streams for the money they earn is way out of balance.
Devin, I love what you do and the info you put out, but I do want to address one small bit. Quite regularly you will use Hassan as your example. This video is no different. And to be clear, I love Hassan. I love what he does, what he stands for, etc. And the man puts in a ton of work. There is no denying that. But one thing people don't seem to know (or remember) is that he didn't start on Twitch from nothing. Quite the opposite. Hassan had an entire news network to advertise his stream through. Before he was streaming on Twitch, he was making videos for TYT. "The Breakdown", as the videos were called, put him in front of millions of people daily (as of Sept 2017, TYT received 2M daily views). Hassan just started advertising his twitch stream through TYT and instantly had thousands of people in his chat. Again, not saying he doesn't work hard. He does. But I'd be willing to bet that he wouldn't be anywhere near where he is now if he didn't have TYT to push his stream.
You could say the same with ludwig. He had a nice start in the smash community that got him going in a way. I love the man and dont think it's to the same extent as hasan but still there. Having something you can draw people from is huge for the start. Starting from literally nothing is so incredibly difficult.
That's completely true, and it is on line what Devin has said for years. If you want to grow on Twitch, you have to first grow on other platforms and then funnel those views to Twitch.
@@TheOne13337 I completely agree. Diversify your content. My point is Hassan didn't grow TYT, he just reaped the benefits. Not exactly the same thing as making content on RUclips, Insta, and Facebook to funnel to Twitch.
@@AdrenalineJunkiesLive I've had quite a few younger people ask me tips for streaming and every single time I tell them to start making content and building an audience. Almost every time they dont listen.
THATS where I know him from. He seemed so familiar and then just seem to blow up on twitch. Devin and basically everyone, even Ludwig has made content about growing through content. I think everyone should stream for fun, but if you want to actually make it your job, there is so much more work than just going live.
I made a video going over how much small streamers like me made. In 5 years of streaming, I've made around $1000. I will ALWAYS say, if you're starting streaming to make money, you'd be better off working at McDonalds. You can minimize the amount of luck needed by posting evergreen content (thx devin for teaching people this), however in the end, it still takes luck + skill.
And I thought I was gonna hear about the fact that just because a channel makes X thousands of dollars a week, doesn't mean the person gets all the money. Your channel can make $1,000 a month, but if you hire an editor, or if you pay for someone to do your interface/art, or investing that money back into the channel/brand/business. IF you take a cut of your money, chances are you will be paying taxes, and since your technically an independent contractor you have to pay employee and employer taxes on the money.
THANK YOU! As a someone who knows the work that goes into successful or even half decent broadcasts. I know people who work full time jobs and come home and work until they sleep on ideas, widgets/redeems/interactions to have on stream, setting up collabs, analyzing market moves as far as social media concepts, and also learning new skills like editing. They do this and dont make anywhere near minimum wage. I have nothing but respect for people who have the drive and can devote the time to make it in the broadcasting field! Its hard and even if the top 100 make insane numbers. In my head they put in the work to make it there and deserve every bit of it! Again absolutely incredible vid watched all the way through! Keep pumping out this kind of stuff so I can keep growing!
100% respect your stance on not using or indulging the people who demand you use data obtained through illegal methods. Not rewarding bad behavior, especially as an influencer, is a big deal IMO.
I mean, you already covered how much streamers make like what...1 year ago? I can only speak for myself but because of that video I was not even a little surprised seeing the amounts in the leak. Also a lot of streamers show their sub count on screen, its not hard to figure out how much they make at the very least. (since that does not include ads, youtube and other sources)
Before I watch the video, you get paid based on your value to the people paying you. I don't get why some people are always getting pissed off at streamers for making what they are worth, companies don't just throw away money for no reason. In Australia I saw a stupid thing on a "news show" about how construction workers get paid too much when they are in one of the most lethal jobs in the country and work their butts off every day. I know it's not exactly the same thing but this reminded me of it.
I had a whole paragraph of debate points to some of this - but decided not to post it. Rather, I would like to point out that Devin will say, "Okay" a lot as a verbal tick or crutch. This would be fine, but DSP also says "okay" as a verbal tick and now I cannot unhear it.
The reality is some streamers get lots of people give them money so therefore they make lots of money. Plus multiple income sources. Also if you make a company more money for the job your doing you normally make more money
Hey Dev, Just want to say thanks for the info! I’ve been doing youtube on and off since 2009 in different genres/accounts but I’ve never been able to pass 10k subs. These videos not only helps me understand twitch, but I feel like tons of this info could be applied to YT and even tiktok, which I’ve found is an attention farm. Currently just trying to make rent, but I’m now going to go all in, no matter the odds. Win or fail, it’s an experience I can use on other businesses in the future. I appreciate the help!
25:20 Thanks for always showing something new in your videos. I find the education to be useful. The main thing that I'd say I'm doing differently than I was two years ago is that I'm primarily focused on developing my skillsets and creating multiple vertical revenue streams due to the fact that at any given moment one of the things that I've built might come crashing down. I need stability. Twitch is probably the last thing on my mind. It's a place to hang out but the couple of diehard fans understand why I barely show up, it's because they know that I need to work on my business and not my stream. Going to keep working on those skillsets and one of my monetization models will start to work as I continue to improve and integrate.
I think the issue here, that many people don't seem to grasp, is that there is little to no merit correlation with increased income for streamers. The highest earning streamers put very little effort into their "jobs" relative to the returns they receive. Furthermore, they produce basically no utilitarian return in value to society other than the relative entertainment value for those who give them money, advertisement opportunities, and the money the streamers spend on goods and services. These people should really be taxed at a higher amount to compensate for their astronomically high incomes relative to the actual value of the service they provide. Not to mention that many of them come across, and likely are, extremely entitled, self-involved, and just genuinely antagonistic individuals. It is a sad reality we live in.
16:40 “you have to be super entertaining” Meanwhile Hasan puts on looped videos of himself while he plays videos so he can leave for 20 mins at a time. That is the part where him earning millions feels wrong. If he actually produced a show or did anything original I would have less problem with it but if you aren’t even on screen how can you possibly argue that that is super entertaining and hard?
Its crazy how people complain about streamers making money, most everything that streamers get we give them. We give them follows, we give them subs, we give them an audience. If you dont wanna watch someone, thats fine. They literally cannot take an audience or a sub from another streamer, as the viewers decide where to give their support. And they worked hard for it too, they worked on skills to entertain us, they did something we havent. There are exceptions such as sponsorships (although we put the streamers in a position to get sponsorships by giving them an audience and a voice which we listen).
I think the big issue isn't streamers making the money. It more so big streamers using an aesthetic of "lol I'm so broke pls pay me." Or shitting on people who make objectively less money then they do for an arguably more valuable/important job.
I'm part of the secret club.... and I'm happy you did a video on this. This is what I was hoping for -- not a deep dive on the leaked list, but an analysis of the revelation that not a lot of money is made in streaming.
It's a testament to your ability to engage that I was 95% sure I knew the answer to the question before starting but I still stayed the full 30 minutes to watch. Thank you as always for good breakdowns.
Obligatory "I watched 25+ minutes of this" comment. I love the rather unique call to action, by the way! :-) Just joined the Patreon; thanks for doing these, Devin.
I'm on the list and honestly I was sad knowing I was actually in the top 10k of all streamers. I thought I was only doing OK with my earnings and felt a LOT more streamers were earning way more money. I also feel bad for the people that full time stream and didn't even make the list (there are a few names that I know that didn't make it and was genuinely surprised).
Love the video, I am apart of the secret club. I do appreciate that you are not talking about the twitch leaks. I am still holding on hope for the Facebook gaming video you promised, but I'm enjoying the videos still.
OFC we are always here all this way lol and I'd love to join the discord but I don't own a cellphone Devin Nash lols :D But hey I can always use the RUclips comments section. I also restream on RUclips and twitch and I make 0 dollar a month. I won't be exclusive to anybody other than the people who watch me. Is there a way to cast to multiple platforms and still make any sort of income? If so you can all bet that at some point these platforms will put a stop to that because they are taking 0% cut. Unless they are taking all the add revenue ofc.
Great video as always Devin. Finally remembered to join the Discord and I am officially part of the community. Thank you for your time an effort, hopefully this video reaches the people that are mislead or misinformed and they can understand how truly difficult it is to even make MINIMUM wage as a streamer.
Thanks for the content Devin. As always its much appreciated. Creators on any platform do move entire communities and invest their own image whenever they talk about any topic or product so probably no, they are not making too much money.
Thank you for the great information, numbers and the message that broadcasters really do put in a lot of work. I made it through the whole video and even posted links to Twitter and my Discord like you suggested.
Not only is it the fact that some people are born into situations or circumstances that set them up at a massive disadvantage, but the converse is even more true, the fact that many of the people in the upper echelons are born in 3rd base and their success had nothing to do with meritocracy. A wealth divide implies at least two sides being separated from one another and there is a lot of talk about the one side, the low side, but a lot BS is accepted about the other side, the high side. There is no doubt the wealth gap needs to be attacked and worked on, on the low side, for the betterment of the people of the US, but the divide can be helped by also limiting or reducing the high side and when such a high percentage of the high side is born there, it is not unethical to take some of it away because they didn't earn it in the first place. In addition, wealth redistribution is never about making rich people poor, it is always only ever about making rich people a bit less rich, for the benefit of millions of their fellow americans. Making rich people poor is only a me thing.
This entire thing is why I treat Twitch like an outlet. A hobby, maybe a side gig where I can pull a few bucks here or there, should I reach that point. I genuinely think anyone who goes into streaming because of monetary reasons really needs to step back and take a reality check.
This also doesn't take into account that that money also goes towards editors and teams and a bunch of other things to make that stream what it is, and you don't have to be a big streamer to be paying for that stuff.
Hey Devin I hear you constantly say "people who click the stream button and start stream" as though that is a good metric of people streaming but doesn't that include people who start streaming and then give up? It's like counting the amount of people who tried to be doctors or people who quit being doctors and using that in your metrics instead of current people employed as doctors. I would like to see these calculations done in comparison to people who are consistently streaming rather than people who just click the stream button. I don't think it's very accurate to compare people's salary when you include people who quit their jobs.
Exactly, should of at least weeded out the millions who only hit go live once, or twice. Plus the millions that only stream for friends. I think a better metric would be minimum of 40hrs per week or something of the sort. Many people who hit go live do so as a hobby and have no interest in making money off the stream.11.4 million unique streams Is an awful metric and just goes to show that you make numbers say just about anything. The worst part is that of course most streamers don’t make millions but this leak was only twitch revenue. Anyone who watches this channel knows the real money in streaming is from RUclips ad revenue. So it’s guaranteed these numbers were skewed and the median stream would make much more in general all things considered.
Its not just the skillset i would say, Its so much more. People can be way more succesfull on the platform but there is certain things that are stopping them - like: The business mind and aspect of it - Which with many does not exist at all. They do it for fun and dosen't really put inn the work being successfull requires. Its also the support, big streamers like the top 100, has a inner circle discord for communication - While, smaller streamers do not have this cumminication channel, so they don't work with people. Then you have the motivation, and the committment, many people simply does not go through with what they sign up for. That's where the inequality is - Its created by the broadcasters and community. Its so spot on tho, devin this is great, Streamers does not get paid close to enough. And its all because of the inequality. Sure the top 0.1% makes bank - But there is creators struggeling. anmd there is so many of them. What streamers need to realize, smaller streamers. Is the production quality and the work required. Anyone can reach the top 0.1% if they put in the work and get lucky, but they need to realize how much work it is. Surviving playing a game simply isn't worth it anymore unless you are at the top 0.1%. You will never reach the top 0.1% either if you just press "go live" without a planned show.
Also a small point comparing to doctors specifically, you take many years of negative profit or no profit to get to that point of significant profit which is very similar to most big streamers of today
I don't understand this culture of hating money. I know where it stems from I just can't believe it's gotten this far out of control. There is no "TOO MUCH MONEY". The flip side of the coin is if you think people are making too much money, then stop giving it to them... Jeff Bezos is a billionaire because everyone gives him their money. I've even seen some of the Top Streamers talk shit about Bezos making so much money, and yet, they are literally making him money, by streaming on his platform. Side question: If this is not live and just a recorded bit, why are you wearing headphones? Prop? Habit? ;)
only untrue thing in this video is the idea that the poor are getting poor and the rich are getting richer. the poor are getting richer and the rich are getting richer much faster. its a slight difference but its important.
No. The secret to making money is duplication or eyeballs. If you can stream and collect consistent eyeballs…there is value to someone who wants to sell something to those eyeballs. Rush Limbaugh said “your job as a broadcaster is to gain, grow and maintain your audience”.
Another brilliant video as always. I had a thought after watching it all the way through. Any chance we could get a video expanding more on the idea of "return of investment"? You talked about the idea that you can tell a brand just how much ROI they would get based on an influencers out reach levels. How exactly do you get those numbers and how to use them I think could be an interesting idea to explore.
:people add it to their wish list and buy it later." you forgot about my favorite, people who add it to their wish list and someone else buys it for both themselves and that person so they can play together lol Influence and word of mouth marketing is honestly more powerful than any commercial or add on the internet today. The future of advertising is going to eventually go to this influence model, for better or worse. My advice is to be cautious who you allow to influence you and do research first.
27 gang. It does feel like an uphill battle trying to get traction starting from nothing. In one way I just want to copy these people and make content everyday, and in another way i'm scared that the algorithm will just never pick me.
Secret stuff #1 - Discord, #2 - Patreon. I’ve got what it takes! 💪🏻😎 Followers: 37 Concurrent Viewers: 3 I will be one of the TOP streamers. “One day” will be my tomorrow! Great video, as always :)
I'd love to see a video explaining how streaming "at an extremely high level" is difficult to do. I've watched my fair share of streamers, and most of the top streamers don't appear to be doing much more than sitting in a chair, maybe playing a game or just talking, occasionally interacting with chat (mostly when reading donations or subscriptions), and being mildly charismatic. It seems to me that these streamers are more likely the benefactor of parasocial bonds, attention-seeking behaviors, and the genuine loneliness of their viewership. It is inarguable to even attempt to equivocate the efforts of the top-paid streamers with other non-streamer earners in their income bracket. Also, making the argument that hours worked = justification for inflated compensation is simply a non-starter; by that logic, people working multiple jobs earning at or below the median US household income wouldn't exist. And, while I agree that some of the top earning streamers are talented entertainers, I don't think we can argue that that realistically justifies their earnings. Unfortunately, this video seems biased towards streamers and leaves out many important counter-arguments.
the amount of sacrifice to be a consistently entertaining streamer is insane you not only have to be engaging for hours on end consistently without being drained you also have to love streaming deeply for the sacrifice you put in seriously it's basic common sense that sure starting a stream is easy but keeping people to watch for hours on end is extremely extremely hard and if you wanna test the theory try streaming to any one of your friends and see how lng they last for without wanting to click off there's a particular reason why there's not alot of successful comedians or streamers running around because most people are fucking boring to watch or provide no entertainment value or informational value and you'll start to realize why they earn the money they get and why there's a market for it now whether you like them earning money is entirely subjective and up to you although i feel it's weird to actually care about someone's else money.
@@dud324 Your argument, much like the value of his content, is entirely subjective. Just because you place entertainment value on something, doesn't mean that thing is objectively valuable. If personality streaming went away tomorrow, would society crumble? The kind of money he makes implies a serious value which it objectively does not carry.
Great video and I totally endorse the decision to not look into the leaked numbers. Your math went a bit wrong though: 7,242 / 11,400,000 = 0.0635 % Not a big problem (and not sure what went wrong) but should be mentioned I think.
On one had I relate to devin on the new world thing but on the other hand I am aware that I’m probably vastly overestimating my ability to become a big streamer
Dont get me wrong, the probability that you will make it as a streamer (at least to minimum wage in your country) is still very low. But I think the number 11,4 mln is way to inflated for calculating the actual percentage. Not everyone ho pressed the button, streamed for more then an hour, yet alone stream regular and with the ambition to go full time.
when he says "but first of all" and you expect a sponsored Ad, but then you remember it is a Devin Nash video and it's nothing but pure, hot information
Thicc hot sticky load of information uwu
@@lostboi2271 oooh my!
You will never be a woman.
@@xebatansis Bruh what?
@@xebatansis ? I'm not trying to be one 😂
I streamed 150-200 hours a month on Twitch for the better part of 3 years and made around $800 total. I made less than $0.25 an hour.
I started focusing on RUclips and the last 3 months I made over $800 each month with this month projecting to be over $1k.
I spent a fraction of the time to make exponentially more. Streaming on Twitch is a waste of time for 99.99% of people but seeing the earnings leak will create hope for many that it’s possible.
I feel this man. 100% Twitch is not a good investment in time, unless you are already there.
nice accomplish so far man. Streaming is such a large timesink with little to show for the vast majority
Wow, RUclips helped me, but not like that. That's insane. RUclips is where it's at
Honestly if you don't have a mic on a stand, a high quality webcam and chat reading I will immediately leave the stream. I can't stand scuffed audio.
I can nothing but agree on this. However, how i see it, is marketing - Which is such a powerfull and important tool - Which again many (Even myself) Have no idea how to do right. Diveristy is really important - But the amount of people that think diversity will work without marketing is insane. Firstly, You need an audience - Once you got an audience the marketing also becomes way more easier as your followers will share your content around if its good enough. Then, you have "how do you get an audience"? Well, you get it through marketing. That's because youtube does not pay you, or give you anything, unless you get into the algorithm, which means - Someone has to like or interact with your video. This means, you need engagement..... And if you have no engagement when you start off - Marketing is #1 and the most important tool you can utelize imo.
Doctor: "If you're enjoying this surgery, make sure to use your Prime"
If we reach 2000 gifted subs, I'll do a 24h surgery subathon
@@louisjabb3047 honestly surgery streams are really an untapped market in the streaming world
I'll take my cut of the ad revenue kthxbye :)
Thing is, when a soldier who has HUGE risk of dying, or a cop or a FFighter make 500x less money than a streamer or an influncer, you know that this world is just absolutely filled with simpletons and idiots who value nothing but h their selfish fun, while others around the world die, this world is hell, and it sucks to see my veteran friend who lost his friends and his back shattered from a bomb barely scrap enough to live while people stand in line to pay millions for a laugh… fuck this world.
Linus had the best take on it, he said that this doesn't show us how much streamers make, rather, it gives us a better idea as to how much money TWITCH makes.
Asmond had a great take on the "leak" on how much some twitch streamers make and it was that these people are just shocked that someone they felt like they parasocially related with they suddenly find out is no where close to the income bracket they are in. This makes them feel suddenly disassociated with this streamer and they are lashing out in various ways.
Also I say "leak" on their income because it had been discussed many times before by various people, sometimes the streamer themselves. The fans that are so shocked by how much make just never cared to even google it for 10 seconds. The leak of other various personal info, hashed passwords, etc is definitely a leak of info.
"The fans that are so shocked by how much make just never cared to even google it for 10 seconds."
In the case of adults with mental health issues It's not that they didn't care...it's that they subconsciously repressed/avoided that kind of thing because it really shines a light on how unhealthy their actions are.
In the case of children the reason they didn't get it is obvious.
Wait until they read Panama Papers, Paradise Papers and Pandora Papers.
zombie generation
Another excellent breakdown, it's crazy that people can't see the parallels between streaming and things like acting, professional sports and social media influencers. Popularity makes money
Almost everyone who complains about this sees the paralels???
@@DIVAD291 no one who is saying this says that top actors should stop being paid as much as they're being paid. If they were then their argument would be invalid by default.
@@mikemikel1629 "no one who is saying this says that top actors should stop being paid as much as they're being paid."
Do you mean that they don't say it in the same sentence??? Who cares??? that's a completely unrealistic expectation to have.
"If they were then their argument would be invalid by default."
I think you got it backwards??? You could argue that believing actors deserve what they get would invalidate someones belief that streamers don't.
But thinking actors don't is coherent with believing that streamers don't.
@@DIVAD291 It may be coherent but it also points out the flaws with believing that streamers shouldn't be paid as much as they do. An actor who is a highly skilled professional should be paid for the work that they do. Production company don't have to choose to higher the actors that cost millions per role. If anything it goes against their bottom line to waste money if an actor isn't necessary. Those millions which would be going into their pockets are now going to somebody else's wallets when they could have just hired an amateur. Obviously big block buster hits don't do this for a reason. That being that professional actors have skills that an amateur just doesn't have. Do you think thet get paid that much because people just want to give away the money that they could have had instead?
@@mikemikel1629 People who disagree with how much actors are paid are not literally saying that they disagree that that's the market value for an actor.
People disagree that actors should be paid their market value.
(Disclaimer Im not targeting anyone and I also dont think that of every popular streamer)
What think is that some of them doesnt really "deserve" that salary, because a lot of the time they dont do anything special other than play a specific game.
1) The fallacious argument of "but they interact with their audience" really? really? have you taken a few minute to look at any popular streamer chats? there basically most of the time no substance, full of spam and emotes, and 10 msg a second.
2) "But they provide entertainment" ok and? that just a very weak argument, when I have friends over and that I "entertain" them, they dont give me 10$ a month, why do you put a random unknow person for that?
3) I dont consider that they provide sufficient value. Just playing a game and doing random commentary is not that "hard" or special. Its mostly purely luck based and with no barrier to entry (basically everyone can try and do it, not specifically succeed but still)
4) Some profit from affiliate to be paid even more while still providing nothing much, why would you receive a 10% of the sale if I buy from that link exactly? why? I never understood AM anyway
5) No matter how you put it, I just dont get the idea behind someone donating sometimes 50$+ to those people.
6) why would you want to be paid a 50k salary for basically doing nothing special? that must be quite interesting to understand the idea behind it, or see how well you can sleep at night to profit from basically "loneliness" and "fake interaction"
never understood why people are mad that streamers are making money. the audience are the ones paying them. if you're mad how about you stop subbing and donating silly messages?
Yupp. It's the same with people getting mad at NFL salaries. "ThEy JuSt PlAy A gAmE" well the NFL is worth billions. Don't like how much they make, stop watching. Stop buying merchandise. Oh... you won't? Then stfu.
I think being mad is just being nosy lol I get that alot of people don't really understand it. I also find it crazy how much some streamers make banks doing the thing that they are doing. I know some streamers make quality contents that deserve it but honestly I can't help but to think that alot of them just profit off of lonely people.
I honestly think they're jealous of these streamers
I mean when people pirate movies and music because they can’t be bothered spending 10-20 bucks but throw away 100’s on super chats that get ignored why wouldn’t you be mad about that? That is like a sick joke.
Ay this video got on Andrei's video. Good job man
The Gini coefficient is really interesting as a tool to talk about economic inequality and something I would have liked to learn about in high school.
Pretty sure reaching >1k-10k+ subscribers is the hard part. At some point it's a chainreaction and you can start paying a team of editors, moderators and managers to take away a chunk of your work. Your viewerbase will do the advertising for you by worth of mouth and other streamers hosting you etc. Your name becomes a brand and starts working for itself.
Pretty sure Asmongold has plenty of days he rolls out of bed and does a 6hour low-energy stream, no production, no script, just being himself. And he still earns an insane amount of money. While as a doctor you're expected to perform at a certain level every day. The amount of energy and time some of the top streamers put into their streams for the money they earn is way out of balance.
Devin, I love what you do and the info you put out, but I do want to address one small bit.
Quite regularly you will use Hassan as your example. This video is no different. And to be clear, I love Hassan. I love what he does, what he stands for, etc. And the man puts in a ton of work. There is no denying that. But one thing people don't seem to know (or remember) is that he didn't start on Twitch from nothing. Quite the opposite. Hassan had an entire news network to advertise his stream through. Before he was streaming on Twitch, he was making videos for TYT. "The Breakdown", as the videos were called, put him in front of millions of people daily (as of Sept 2017, TYT received 2M daily views). Hassan just started advertising his twitch stream through TYT and instantly had thousands of people in his chat.
Again, not saying he doesn't work hard. He does. But I'd be willing to bet that he wouldn't be anywhere near where he is now if he didn't have TYT to push his stream.
You could say the same with ludwig. He had a nice start in the smash community that got him going in a way. I love the man and dont think it's to the same extent as hasan but still there. Having something you can draw people from is huge for the start. Starting from literally nothing is so incredibly difficult.
That's completely true, and it is on line what Devin has said for years. If you want to grow on Twitch, you have to first grow on other platforms and then funnel those views to Twitch.
@@TheOne13337 I completely agree. Diversify your content. My point is Hassan didn't grow TYT, he just reaped the benefits. Not exactly the same thing as making content on RUclips, Insta, and Facebook to funnel to Twitch.
@@AdrenalineJunkiesLive I've had quite a few younger people ask me tips for streaming and every single time I tell them to start making content and building an audience. Almost every time they dont listen.
THATS where I know him from. He seemed so familiar and then just seem to blow up on twitch. Devin and basically everyone, even Ludwig has made content about growing through content. I think everyone should stream for fun, but if you want to actually make it your job, there is so much more work than just going live.
still blows my mind how much value i get out of thess videos
I made a video going over how much small streamers like me made. In 5 years of streaming, I've made around $1000. I will ALWAYS say, if you're starting streaming to make money, you'd be better off working at McDonalds. You can minimize the amount of luck needed by posting evergreen content (thx devin for teaching people this), however in the end, it still takes luck + skill.
And I thought I was gonna hear about the fact that just because a channel makes X thousands of dollars a week, doesn't mean the person gets all the money. Your channel can make $1,000 a month, but if you hire an editor, or if you pay for someone to do your interface/art, or investing that money back into the channel/brand/business. IF you take a cut of your money, chances are you will be paying taxes, and since your technically an independent contractor you have to pay employee and employer taxes on the money.
So Devin is basically saying:
*"They are just built different"*
My absolute favorite part of this video 16:07 "If its so easy to be a streamer ::Clap::..."
Love this!!!
One of my fave parts was when he asked what we think but forgot he was recording and not live streaming 😆
THANK YOU! As a someone who knows the work that goes into successful or even half decent broadcasts. I know people who work full time jobs and come home and work until they sleep on ideas, widgets/redeems/interactions to have on stream, setting up collabs, analyzing market moves as far as social media concepts, and also learning new skills like editing. They do this and dont make anywhere near minimum wage. I have nothing but respect for people who have the drive and can devote the time to make it in the broadcasting field! Its hard and even if the top 100 make insane numbers. In my head they put in the work to make it there and deserve every bit of it!
Again absolutely incredible vid watched all the way through! Keep pumping out this kind of stuff so I can keep growing!
I don't like the idea that working hard automatically means you deserve a lot of money.
100% respect your stance on not using or indulging the people who demand you use data obtained through illegal methods. Not rewarding bad behavior, especially as an influencer, is a big deal IMO.
I mean, you already covered how much streamers make like what...1 year ago? I can only speak for myself but because of that video I was not even a little surprised seeing the amounts in the leak. Also a lot of streamers show their sub count on screen, its not hard to figure out how much they make at the very least. (since that does not include ads, youtube and other sources)
Before I watch the video, you get paid based on your value to the people paying you. I don't get why some people are always getting pissed off at streamers for making what they are worth, companies don't just throw away money for no reason. In Australia I saw a stupid thing on a "news show" about how construction workers get paid too much when they are in one of the most lethal jobs in the country and work their butts off every day. I know it's not exactly the same thing but this reminded me of it.
I had a whole paragraph of debate points to some of this - but decided not to post it. Rather, I would like to point out that Devin will say, "Okay" a lot as a verbal tick or crutch. This would be fine, but DSP also says "okay" as a verbal tick and now I cannot unhear it.
Notepad appears - 3:47
ahh yes a very fine notepad indeed
i was looking for such comment. GJ
The reality is some streamers get lots of people give them money so therefore they make lots of money. Plus multiple income sources. Also if you make a company more money for the job your doing you normally make more money
Hey Dev,
Just want to say thanks for the info!
I’ve been doing youtube on and off since 2009 in different genres/accounts but I’ve never been able to pass 10k subs.
These videos not only helps me understand twitch, but I feel like tons of this info could be applied to YT and even tiktok, which I’ve found is an attention farm.
Currently just trying to make rent, but I’m now going to go all in, no matter the odds.
Win or fail, it’s an experience I can use on other businesses in the future.
I appreciate the help!
25:20 Thanks for always showing something new in your videos. I find the education to be useful. The main thing that I'd say I'm doing differently than I was two years ago is that I'm primarily focused on developing my skillsets and creating multiple vertical revenue streams due to the fact that at any given moment one of the things that I've built might come crashing down. I need stability. Twitch is probably the last thing on my mind. It's a place to hang out but the couple of diehard fans understand why I barely show up, it's because they know that I need to work on my business and not my stream. Going to keep working on those skillsets and one of my monetization models will start to work as I continue to improve and integrate.
Angry Mob: Take my money!
Also Angry Mob: Wait, did you take money from EVERYONE?!? Me nO SpEciAL?
I think the issue here, that many people don't seem to grasp, is that there is little to no merit correlation with increased income for streamers. The highest earning streamers put very little effort into their "jobs" relative to the returns they receive. Furthermore, they produce basically no utilitarian return in value to society other than the relative entertainment value for those who give them money, advertisement opportunities, and the money the streamers spend on goods and services. These people should really be taxed at a higher amount to compensate for their astronomically high incomes relative to the actual value of the service they provide. Not to mention that many of them come across, and likely are, extremely entitled, self-involved, and just genuinely antagonistic individuals. It is a sad reality we live in.
16:40 “you have to be super entertaining”
Meanwhile Hasan puts on looped videos of himself while he plays videos so he can leave for 20 mins at a time. That is the part where him earning millions feels wrong. If he actually produced a show or did anything original I would have less problem with it but if you aren’t even on screen how can you possibly argue that that is super entertaining and hard?
Its crazy how people complain about streamers making money, most everything that streamers get we give them. We give them follows, we give them subs, we give them an audience. If you dont wanna watch someone, thats fine. They literally cannot take an audience or a sub from another streamer, as the viewers decide where to give their support. And they worked hard for it too, they worked on skills to entertain us, they did something we havent.
There are exceptions such as sponsorships (although we put the streamers in a position to get sponsorships by giving them an audience and a voice which we listen).
Complaining about streamers making too much money is very much a complaint about the people who give them that money.
Been waiting for this one!
I think the big issue isn't streamers making the money. It more so big streamers using an aesthetic of "lol I'm so broke pls pay me." Or shitting on people who make objectively less money then they do for an arguably more valuable/important job.
I'm part of the secret club.... and I'm happy you did a video on this. This is what I was hoping for -- not a deep dive on the leaked list, but an analysis of the revelation that not a lot of money is made in streaming.
It's a testament to your ability to engage that I was 95% sure I knew the answer to the question before starting but I still stayed the full 30 minutes to watch. Thank you as always for good breakdowns.
Was really hoping you'd go over the leaks but understand why you didnt. Really cool video putting everything into perspective.
Obligatory "I watched 25+ minutes of this" comment. I love the rather unique call to action, by the way! :-)
Just joined the Patreon; thanks for doing these, Devin.
RUclips: You want to watch this 35 min video?
Me: Devin Nash? Why didn't it just auto play at this point?
I know you didnt want to cover this topic. But for me, I really needed you to help me understand everything. Thank you very much.
Secret call out *high five* - Great video! Appreciate all the work you put in to breaking this all down
Devin Nash Secret Club represent!! Thanks so much for the info!!
I'm on the list and honestly I was sad knowing I was actually in the top 10k of all streamers. I thought I was only doing OK with my earnings and felt a LOT more streamers were earning way more money. I also feel bad for the people that full time stream and didn't even make the list (there are a few names that I know that didn't make it and was genuinely surprised).
Love the video, I am apart of the secret club. I do appreciate that you are not talking about the twitch leaks. I am still holding on hope for the Facebook gaming video you promised, but I'm enjoying the videos still.
Supply and demand
#WholeVideoClub, love your videos Devin! Keep telling my buddies that Twitch isn't worth their time, can't wait to share this video!
OFC we are always here all this way lol and I'd love to join the discord but I don't own a cellphone Devin Nash lols :D But hey I can always use the RUclips comments section. I also restream on RUclips and twitch and I make 0 dollar a month. I won't be exclusive to anybody other than the people who watch me. Is there a way to cast to multiple platforms and still make any sort of income? If so you can all bet that at some point these platforms will put a stop to that because they are taking 0% cut. Unless they are taking all the add revenue ofc.
Man, I usually watch videos at 1.25 or 1.5 speed.
Impossible to follow Devin at those speeds 😅
Great content as always. Joining the discord..:
wonderful video thank you for talking about this! Woot 20min mark fan, Thanks always Devin
Great video as always Devin. Finally remembered to join the Discord and I am officially part of the community. Thank you for your time an effort, hopefully this video reaches the people that are mislead or misinformed and they can understand how truly difficult it is to even make MINIMUM wage as a streamer.
Thank you Trent Reznor. Super insightful, love your videos!
Thanks for the content Devin. As always its much appreciated. Creators on any platform do move entire communities and invest their own image whenever they talk about any topic or product so probably no, they are not making too much money.
I would love to get this type of list on youtube, probably the top 100 is making 8 digits.
been looking forward to this video! Thank you Devin for this video.
Thanks for the video, Devin. I watched the whole damn thing. See you in three months!
Great video as always Devin - super informative!
To the end every time, another great video!
I love seeing these numbers! Preciate the content as always my man.
Great breakdown and analysis. Love your videos.
There’s nothing quite like a Devin Nash video to light up that motivation
Thank you for the great information, numbers and the message that broadcasters really do put in a lot of work. I made it through the whole video and even posted links to Twitter and my Discord like you suggested.
I love a Devin Nash break down … as a Business Major I respect the he hell out of his break downs!
I love the analysis! Been keeping up with you for a couple of years, keep up the great videos Devin!
art is a lot like this too IMO. i took art in community and realized i sucked at it and wasn't employable so switched to teaching :)
Not only is it the fact that some people are born into situations or circumstances that set them up at a massive disadvantage, but the converse is even more true, the fact that many of the people in the upper echelons are born in 3rd base and their success had nothing to do with meritocracy. A wealth divide implies at least two sides being separated from one another and there is a lot of talk about the one side, the low side, but a lot BS is accepted about the other side, the high side. There is no doubt the wealth gap needs to be attacked and worked on, on the low side, for the betterment of the people of the US, but the divide can be helped by also limiting or reducing the high side and when such a high percentage of the high side is born there, it is not unethical to take some of it away because they didn't earn it in the first place. In addition, wealth redistribution is never about making rich people poor, it is always only ever about making rich people a bit less rich, for the benefit of millions of their fellow americans. Making rich people poor is only a me thing.
This entire thing is why I treat Twitch like an outlet. A hobby, maybe a side gig where I can pull a few bucks here or there, should I reach that point. I genuinely think anyone who goes into streaming because of monetary reasons really needs to step back and take a reality check.
This has been an interesting listen. Will likely come back to this multiple times to look for areas to work on with my own project (my channel)... 😅
This also doesn't take into account that that money also goes towards editors and teams and a bunch of other things to make that stream what it is, and you don't have to be a big streamer to be paying for that stuff.
Just found you... not sure why it took so long.
Iam currently blowing through all of your videos.
(Part of of secret club on everyone one)
I'm sure you are influencing many people Devin, thanks for the video.
27 Minute squad shoutout.
Hey Devin I hear you constantly say "people who click the stream button and start stream" as though that is a good metric of people streaming but doesn't that include people who start streaming and then give up? It's like counting the amount of people who tried to be doctors or people who quit being doctors and using that in your metrics instead of current people employed as doctors. I would like to see these calculations done in comparison to people who are consistently streaming rather than people who just click the stream button. I don't think it's very accurate to compare people's salary when you include people who quit their jobs.
A lot of bias in all of his videos defending content creators...
Exactly, should of at least weeded out the millions who only hit go live once, or twice. Plus the millions that only stream for friends. I think a better metric would be minimum of 40hrs per week or something of the sort. Many people who hit go live do so as a hobby and have no interest in making money off the stream.11.4 million unique streams Is an awful metric and just goes to show that you make numbers say just about anything. The worst part is that of course most streamers don’t make millions but this leak was only twitch revenue. Anyone who watches this channel knows the real money in streaming is from RUclips ad revenue. So it’s guaranteed these numbers were skewed and the median stream would make much more in general all things considered.
Its not just the skillset i would say, Its so much more. People can be way more succesfull on the platform but there is certain things that are stopping them - like: The business mind and aspect of it - Which with many does not exist at all. They do it for fun and dosen't really put inn the work being successfull requires. Its also the support, big streamers like the top 100, has a inner circle discord for communication - While, smaller streamers do not have this cumminication channel, so they don't work with people. Then you have the motivation, and the committment, many people simply does not go through with what they sign up for. That's where the inequality is - Its created by the broadcasters and community.
Its so spot on tho, devin this is great, Streamers does not get paid close to enough. And its all because of the inequality. Sure the top 0.1% makes bank - But there is creators struggeling. anmd there is so many of them.
What streamers need to realize, smaller streamers. Is the production quality and the work required. Anyone can reach the top 0.1% if they put in the work and get lucky, but they need to realize how much work it is. Surviving playing a game simply isn't worth it anymore unless you are at the top 0.1%. You will never reach the top 0.1% either if you just press "go live" without a planned show.
Thank you very much for video^^ Very informative as always^^
Always part of the secret club! I love these videos keep it up Devin!
Cabbage Brain Take: I was totally wondering when the new Devin Nash vid would hit with the leaks. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it.
Also a small point comparing to doctors specifically, you take many years of negative profit or no profit to get to that point of significant profit which is very similar to most big streamers of today
I don't understand this culture of hating money. I know where it stems from I just can't believe it's gotten this far out of control. There is no "TOO MUCH MONEY". The flip side of the coin is if you think people are making too much money, then stop giving it to them... Jeff Bezos is a billionaire because everyone gives him their money. I've even seen some of the Top Streamers talk shit about Bezos making so much money, and yet, they are literally making him money, by streaming on his platform.
Side question: If this is not live and just a recorded bit, why are you wearing headphones? Prop? Habit? ;)
At least somebody who finally understands. Thanks Devin.
27 minute squad report in
I'm happy you are actually knowledgable
only untrue thing in this video is the idea that the poor are getting poor and the rich are getting richer. the poor are getting richer and the rich are getting richer much faster. its a slight difference but its important.
No. The secret to making money is duplication or eyeballs. If you can stream and collect consistent eyeballs…there is value to someone who wants to sell something to those eyeballs.
Rush Limbaugh said “your job as a broadcaster is to gain, grow and maintain your audience”.
In comparison to the revenue they bring in for Amazon & Twitch I believe top streamers are very underpaid
Another brilliant video as always. I had a thought after watching it all the way through.
Any chance we could get a video expanding more on the idea of "return of investment"?
You talked about the idea that you can tell a brand just how much ROI they would get based on an influencers out reach levels. How exactly do you get those numbers and how to use them I think could be an interesting idea to explore.
RUclips really need to put a lot attention to the gaming community and yt has the budget to make it happen
:people add it to their wish list and buy it later." you forgot about my favorite, people who add it to their wish list and someone else buys it for both themselves and that person so they can play together lol Influence and word of mouth marketing is honestly more powerful than any commercial or add on the internet today. The future of advertising is going to eventually go to this influence model, for better or worse. My advice is to be cautious who you allow to influence you and do research first.
27 gang. It does feel like an uphill battle trying to get traction starting from nothing. In one way I just want to copy these people and make content everyday, and in another way i'm scared that the algorithm will just never pick me.
here we go, the good stuff
Secret stuff #1 - Discord, #2 - Patreon.
I’ve got what it takes! 💪🏻😎
Followers: 37 Concurrent Viewers: 3
I will be one of the TOP streamers. “One day” will be my tomorrow!
Great video, as always :)
love the videos. always to the end
Devin Nash, you are the man!
Also, I watched the entire video :)
27 minutes, wow, this one really just passed by, nicely done
What's wild is how few streams come close to average American income.
I'd love to see a video explaining how streaming "at an extremely high level" is difficult to do. I've watched my fair share of streamers, and most of the top streamers don't appear to be doing much more than sitting in a chair, maybe playing a game or just talking, occasionally interacting with chat (mostly when reading donations or subscriptions), and being mildly charismatic. It seems to me that these streamers are more likely the benefactor of parasocial bonds, attention-seeking behaviors, and the genuine loneliness of their viewership. It is inarguable to even attempt to equivocate the efforts of the top-paid streamers with other non-streamer earners in their income bracket.
Also, making the argument that hours worked = justification for inflated compensation is simply a non-starter; by that logic, people working multiple jobs earning at or below the median US household income wouldn't exist. And, while I agree that some of the top earning streamers are talented entertainers, I don't think we can argue that that realistically justifies their earnings. Unfortunately, this video seems biased towards streamers and leaves out many important counter-arguments.
the amount of sacrifice to be a consistently entertaining streamer is insane you not only have to be engaging for hours on end consistently without being drained you also have to love streaming deeply for the sacrifice you put in seriously it's basic common sense that sure starting a stream is easy but keeping people to watch for hours on end is extremely extremely hard and if you wanna test the theory try streaming to any one of your friends and see how lng they last for without wanting to click off there's a particular reason why there's not alot of successful comedians or streamers running around because most people are fucking boring to watch or provide no entertainment value or informational value and you'll start to realize why they earn the money they get and why there's a market for it now whether you like them earning money is entirely subjective and up to you although i feel it's weird to actually care about someone's else money.
@@dud324 Your argument, much like the value of his content, is entirely subjective. Just because you place entertainment value on something, doesn't mean that thing is objectively valuable. If personality streaming went away tomorrow, would society crumble? The kind of money he makes implies a serious value which it objectively does not carry.
HE TALKED ABOUT IT LETSGO POGGERS
Great video and I totally endorse the decision to not look into the leaked numbers.
Your math went a bit wrong though: 7,242 / 11,400,000 = 0.0635 %
Not a big problem (and not sure what went wrong) but should be mentioned I think.
On one had I relate to devin on the new world thing but on the other hand I am aware that I’m probably vastly overestimating my ability to become a big streamer
Watched the entire video like always.
Dont get me wrong, the probability that you will make it as a streamer (at least to minimum wage in your country) is still very low. But I think the number 11,4 mln is way to inflated for calculating the actual percentage. Not everyone ho pressed the button, streamed for more then an hour, yet alone stream regular and with the ambition to go full time.
Correction worth pointing out. 67k is the the median *household* income. The median personal income is half that (~ around 35k).